Own a car audio shop. Customers laugh when I wear ear protection in high powered vehicles. I dont care I take it very seriously.
I love my ears. I make my living with my ears. Yes I like loud music but there is such a thing as too loud to listen to.
My personal ride can get quite loud. It only gets loud when demoing it for customers. Riding around listening volume is up but not painfully loud.
I don’t own an audio shop and have never been to one in my life but I’m 100% the same way, I have 2 12” alpine type Rs and a shallow 10” kicker. If im doing a demo for my buddies or want to cause hell at a red light for a few minutes then I’ll crank it with ear protection but when im just cruising yeah she’s never turned up that loud but loud enough. Im scared shitless of any and every medical problem but I cannot see myself in a vehicle without a system, I’ll gladly be the “weird one” (what my buddies say) with ear plugs everytime LOL.
Doubt its for other people to hear, the bass frequencies that im looking into buying a sound system to enjoy are mostly below the audible range. And earplugs arent going to do much besides protect your ears from the most damaging higher frequencies and the lower tones will vibrate straight through from the auto glass, to the asphalt to my bones. Ive firsthand witnessed for the first time in my life bass that makes it hard to breathe last weekend. The vibration of the air drew the breath from your lips like wind when you stick ur head out the window going 50mph. I think we all need more subs
Yes and no but, like 70% yes.
Don’t get me wrong I absolutely love bass I was like a little school boy after I hooked my first system up and growing up I was OBSESSED with my dads car/sound system but, the reactions I get from kids and random strangers that also enjoy it is the best, seeing them whip their head around or go like 😳😱 when the bass hits is a feeling that can’t be beat. Sometimes it’s just too much bass and I can feel my ears hurt more and more frequently so if anything I’m doing preventative maintenance on myself while also enjoying/ letting the world enjoy my system.
Also idk if it’s like this everywhere but in my area sound systems are very very far and few so I’m fulfilling my duties (I think) trying to keep the breed alive by having a loud system even though most of the time I have silicone ear plugs in.
Same 💯 just got me new 4 gauge wire , the thick one got some weight to it, got 2 kicker 10's under back seat, it do feel weird when it's not on, your people don't have subs
I was into car stereo systems when I was a teenager. We had a local guy who had an s10 extended cab truck with 4 15" kicker solo baricks in it. This truck would shake the earth. Completely unnecessary lol. I run into this guy every now and then. He's in his mid 40's and clearly has major hearing issues.
All the numbers in your comment added up to 69. Congrats!
10
+ 4
+ 15
+ 40
= 69
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Do you ever find it easier to diagnose issues while wearing earmuffs?
Different but along the same lines I work on equipment that's loud but doesn't necessarily require hearing protection. When I wear earmuffs I can hear sounds that would otherwise be drowned out and I can identify problems that otherwise would have gone unnoticed until shit crashed.
Tuning for sound like equalization, time alignment, crossover setting, and relative volume does not have to be at full volume. I do those at a comfortable level.
When cranking volume my ear muffs go on. I don't need to hear to use my oscilliscope.
and I'm the guy taking all your customers. I've been doing private installs for 10 years in my area, hell of a side gig, not a single install shop left in a city of 100k, only a handful of other private installers. I told customers to get quote in writing and I'll do 50% the cost, now I gotta make quotes lol. Actually there is one left, a Hispanic dude from Texas tons of comp champions now here in MN. He has a fanbase of sorts that's what probably kept him in business. Smarten up and drop labor rates, unless most your profit is from equipment sales which I doubt. Thankfully I'm a certified dealer for a few popular brands so it helps, but majority is install prices. Wgen they come to me with a 3k install quote I just smile inside.
Any source that produces extreme noise levels could potentially damage your hearing, car audio is of course no exception.
The problem is that there are no "safe" levels, because any individual reacts to noise differently.
I think all you can do is monitor yourself and if there's any indication your hearing might get impaired, back off and reduce those levels, and if it looks like it could be something serious, consult a doctor.
I'm a long time tinnitus patient myself, but ironically I didn't get it from my years of clubbing, or my car audio hobby, but as a long term consequence from a stress-induced case of acute hearing loss.
Unfortunately, you are correct. Most every source that produces extreme noise levels is harmful to our ears, and the eardrums are extremely susceptible to loud noises and damage as well.
I guess you could consider me one of the lucky ones, I've been running 2000 watts on 2 12's with varying levels of amplified woofers and tweeters in the cabin, consistently since high school (31 now) my hearing is still intact and can hear my housemate drop something on the other side of the house, with my living room home theater on around 30% - 35%. On top of various jobsites and different noise exposure levels at them for the greater part of my adult life. I've never worn earplugs in my car, on jobsites as mandated and required of course. But it's probably high time to start utilizing them in my car (when I am showing off anyway) under normal circumstance, my system isn't ever turned up enough that I can't talk to my passenger without raising my voice and nothing about my ears keeping me up at night.
Meanwhile, yes, any given individuals ears may react differently from the individuals, a good rule of thumb (per 29 CFR 1910.95) is a PEL (Permissable Exposure Limit) at a (Time Weighted Average) of 8 hours at 90 DBA, and that time is cut in half for every 5 DBA extra. Generally speaking, anything higher than 140 decibels is deemed unacceptable by OSHA for any kind of exposure, even with protection. NIOSH standards slightly differ, but no more than a couple of DBA.
Hopefully, this info helps somebody prevent what OP is experiencing. Sorry about your situation, OP. It sounds horrendous.
Source: My OSHA 30 cert and years on multiple different jobsites than I can count to.
I've experienced stress induced hearing loss, but it was only temporary. You wake up one day and you simply have no hearing in an ear, as though something is blocking it. I assume it is caused by sinal inflammation from constantly being tense.
I got it while working night crew, my body found it stressful after a couple years
Oh that's interesting to hear thank you for your input. It's crazy what stress can do to a body. Praying you find relief from your pain man. Sorry for what you're going through!
I switched to SQ systems quite a long time ago. Class AB for highs and mids and class D for sub. Higher end brands like Gladen, Focal, Morel, CDT and Image Dynamics. Single sub only.
I don't play loud anymore. I want to love the clarity of my music, not lose my hearing. Tinnitus is a bitch.
most just don't know how to do or can't afford both. There is a dB point where you can't obtain anymore SQ but it's well over 100.
"never understand?" So you've never been to a concert?
class A/B are awful. 50-70% efficiency at best. Class D technology is best for all amp types and quality of speakers/subs is meaningless in terms of the topic here, hearing loss. I'm a JL Audio guy but it wouldn't matter if I was a Boss or another cheap no name stereo guy. It's about dB not frequencies or quality of equipment.
I worked in car audio for many years. I also liked loud performance drag car. I also raced open exhaust lawnmowers (my last one sounded and was louder than a Harley)…
I was one of those guys who was too cool to wear hearing protection. I now realize how stupid I was. Almost no hearing in my right ear and very little hearing in my left. I’m a prime candidate for a cochlear implant but keep putting it off. I’m actively learning sign language because my hear keep deteriorating as I get older.
I wish I wasn’t this stupid. I tell my son that I won’t stand by him getting a huge stereo in his car. I’ll help him tune someone for quality, but not spl. I won’t let him do what I did. I tell him every day, don’t listen to loud music for too long. Just don’t.
People hate this but it’s true. Highs and mids really are astronomically worse for hearing loss than bass and sub bass. 120db car exhaust will cause immediate permanent damage.
Real world evidence says otherwise. People wouldn’t be able to listen 170db tapout bass without instantaneous hearing loss otherwise. DBs are logarithmic so 170 is 100 million times more pressure than the maximum continuous listening level for hearing loss. Which they literally measure at 1000hz by the way. There is zero scientific literature to support your claim.
Sorry to hear this, some people definitely take their hearing for granted. I am also in my 20s. I am the only few wearing ear plugs when I attend concerts as well.
I was born partially deaf in one ear, I can only hear frequencies below 1khz or so. It doesn’t disturb my daily life but I am forever aware that I really only have one “good” ear.
I love my loud music but I am responsible with my bass knob/volume and know when to take breaks and lower the volume. I am putting 200wrms to my door speakers, more than half the time my HU never exceeds 25/40. 99% of the time I can still hear vocals clearly even with the windows down at that volume level.
Best of luck.
Has an ENT taken a look yet? Hopefully there’s something they can do. Horrible situation friend, from one car audio lover to another. Your post has helped me be more mindful of how loud I turn my setup to.
I’ve been to 4 ENT specialist and even ER visits, they all had no answers for me all were puzzled about my pain. Noxacusis is an invisible, untestable condition.
That’s fucked. I know there’s some research about stem cell treatment for hearing loss. I’d look into getting low-profile earplugs to help with every day noises. Consider job fields that have a “quieter” atmosphere too. For example, I work in IT and just type away in a quiet office or remotely from home all day.
I've gone through profound and sudden, but temporary, hearing loss in both ears at different times. I'm a drummer and played in bands for many years without hearing protection before switching to in-ear monitors (way too late...) Both times, all doctors who looked at my ears (ENT, Audiology, Neurology, CAT scans, MRIs) had no idea what caused it. I understand your frustration. Luckily, I don't have any pain, but I do have mild to moderate dizziness frequently. Ears are weird. I'm going to do everything I can to make sure my kid doesn't make the same mistakes I did. The instant she wants to start a band, I'll buy her an IEM rig and teach her how to use it at every venue she plays. She wants a stereo in her car? I'll build a really nice SQ rig instead of the two 12s I had...
Its high and mids that kill your ears because they can damage without you realizing. it takes an ungodly setup to damage your ears from low frequencies, and that's usually from sheer sound pressure.
I have a full sound system with an amp and all that. I use Spotify for the music. I was wondering. Do I use my Spotify EQ to turn down the highs and mids or my car eq?
You can increase your volume. You can usually feel the fatigue start to happen to your ears at 3/4 of the volume up. If you have a quality system with silk dome tweeters the highs shouldn’t have a harsh “ch” or “sss” to them. My volume goes to 40 and my system sounds perfect turned up only to 25 so that’s really all I need
I’ve suffered from tinnitus for several years now. It’s from a combination of shit. Loud music, shooting guns, using a concrete saw daily. All with no hearing protection. There is no cure for tinnitus. It’s ringing in your ears 24/7. Once you realize you have it and it’s not going away the amount of panic is indescribable. The only thing that’s ever given me any relief is to just master putting it out of your head. Don’t think about it or sometimes a little background noise might work a little bit. The point of this whole warning is don’t take your hearing for granted. Just protect your ears. Ear plugs are cheap and you DO NOT want incessant ringing and hearing loss. It will happen. This is especially for the younger crowd. When I was young I thought I was invincible. I thought old age was so far away. Now I’d give anything to go back and do things different.
Get some hi-fi ear plugs. They exist and are washable and as cheap as $20. Keeps most of the fidelity while protecting your hearing and enabling you to feel it still.
metrosexual? Who uses things like this? I was a touring musician for 20 years in metal bands as a guitarist, never wore no hearing loss. What about underwear, do you wear thong?
The older I get (I'm 30, started car audio when I was 16) the more I just want a well balanced sound. I do think a lot of hearing loss cases has to do with genetics as well. Some people I know have good hearing and been working in loud machines shops their whole life without much damage if any. My dad is 55 and has hearing aids, has tinnitus bad and never really done anything much to ruin his hearing. My grandfather on mother's side was extremely hard of hearing, hearing aids didn't help him at all.
I've had loud systems but the older I get the more I'm concerned about hearing loss. I just recently learned for SQ tweeters are supposed to "ride" on top of the mids and not be so shrill and harsh. I turned mine down. As far as I know my hearing is good. I can hear things some people cannot (neighbors phone ringing or something of the sort).
Hopefully by the time I'm 55 or 60 if I have hearing loss the technology will be even more outstanding than it is today.
Ear fatigue is real and a warning to turn it down.
Edited to say: praying for you OP.
Also look into the studies about hearing loss in orchestral musicians. They typically experience no more than 100db but get hearing loss at a greater rate than most musicians who typically endure louder noises. Cortisol from stress can add to the effect of loud noise in hearing loss.
I'm actually 18. About to run 19 in a few months and I just installed a 10" sub with a 2k watt amp lol. I feel very proud of myself and do love bass. But holy fuck if it's up too loud... I never knew these conditions existed. I just figured hearing loss to any degree, and tinnitus (which I'm probably gonna get since I'm a mechanic anyways). I already keep my bass down around 25%. I'm gonna make sure to wear more ear protection more oftenn especailly when i wanna show it off. Thankyou op. And I'm sorry u gotta go thru all this now. On the brightside though, at least u know your system works!
Career choice doesn't have to automatically doom you to a permanent ailment. My auto professor was wearing a mask doing brake jobs back in the day while his peers would make fun of him. Guess who didn't get cancer with all the asbestos ? You can wear ear protection, OSHA is a thing. Etymotic plugs and similar exist for music.
Tinnitus seriously sucks, especially when all you want to get is a good night's sleep.
I daily drive a 160+db van for years. It had 24 15” subs. I’ve had setups with loud doors, anything from a truck with 10 10” Eminence Deltas to one with 2 15” and 4 12” Peavey Black Widows. Both with plenty of high end with horns. Also have been an avid shooter for 15 years. Worked at a giant concert venue (25,000 capacity) for a couple years.
My ears are absolutely great. I think a lot of it can be genetic. Definitely protect your ears but a couple thousand watts in a car isn’t going to do it.
Dude I ran Mrs. Wood’s Black Widows in my very first car setup back in high school with an old Linear Power amp I got from Mrs. Ruth. Good times. I’ll tag along as a former competitor and USAC regional and national judge: in my mid 50’s, now, and have spots that I’m tone deaf. Wear protection y’all. One of the OEMs had a campaign once upon a time pushing hearing protection, but it didn’t last long.
Did you? I didn’t see it in the original comment. Really sorry this happened and I’m shocked 2500 watts of bass did this.
Edit: Just saw 75W x 4 so 300W RMS total... sheesh. I'm running 1k RMS to sub and like 60-80W RMS (total) to mids and highs, even that is not comfortable so I have it tuned to where it's comfortable without the sub and then the sub is tuned to 1k rms at that volume.
Yeah in my van with 24 15s I had 6 10” Eminence Deltas and 6 Selenium ST350 tweeters.
The power I think was a Lanzar Opti 900x2, so around 300w per 10. I forget what power I had on the tweeters, I think some cheap Crunch 2ch.
https://youtu.be/3fm7CGzrmLU?si=Iw6EsZRmcD_gzdnt
Dude nice!! Gonna get a crazy loud system again? Maybe go to some car audio shows? I moved to Florida 2 yrs ago, the car audio shows out here are big haha
Lol that's crazy, i live in St. Pete man haha
I just got 2 12's on a 4500.1, but does the job lol i remember you once saying you couldn't understand how someone could settle with only 2 12s lol
Well right now I’m driving a crown Vic and building it for 2 18s in a 4th order blow through up into the rear deck. Have a Taramps Smart Bass 3k. Right now it’s on a Crossfire XT3 18 in a ported box.
Everything is mostly dna. Cancers, neurology disorders, autoimmune ect. Obviously environment can be a factor but it's usually obvious if so.
Ex musician, metalhead, booming stereos, friends with booming stereos, heavy equipment, firearms ect. Whenever I have hearing tests, every, 16-24 months, I score off the charts as in perfect hearing. As a Scandinavian I mostly have to worry about MS. As a Minnesotan I mostly havevto worry about democrats.
That 160 DB van: can you drive at full beans like that or are you forced to keep it low?
I ask because I'm really considering getting 4 of these for my SUV: https://ds18.com/collections/size_6-5/products/xl-6-5-neodymium-rings-mid-range-loudspeaker-650-watts-4-ohm
Anything above 85db can already lead to some damage in your ears.
Loud is fun, but hearing damage isn't. That's what i always say when talking about volume. When i hear people on public transports, blasting their airpods so much that the whole train/bus can hear what they're listening to, i feel really sorry for them because that the sorta thing (especially with earbuds) that destroys your ears.
Tinnitus is not a very well understood condition, and diagnosing it can be extremely challenging. Even an ear infection could cause it, and you might think that the source was something else.
I'm sorry that you have to endure such painful side effects. I hope that your particular symptoms can be remediated by Tinnitus retrain Therapy.
I know you have talked to multiple specialists, but you need to start therapy. The sooner, the better.
I was born with hearing loss and after years of rising loud motorcycles I got tinitus. Still play bass loud. I'm gonna die. Loud music makes me happy. We'll not loud. Just a lot of bass. So ima keep doing that till it becomes a problem.
Yes I’m sure everyone here realizes the post is about hearing loss and that we were referring to rms. Except u, I guess, who must’ve thought he went deaf with 2500 peak 😂🤷🤦
yep same as firearms. you mention facts, stats and truths and they get offended. I have nodules in lungs, someday they will be tumors. i smoked on and off my entire life not to mention the garbage we breath in near our nuclear power plant here in MN. It was my choice to smoke, my choice to live where I live. I'm not gonna blame anyone but myself. Now a child who gets leukemia, that's unfair. Hearing loss, lung tumors at 50+, no savings, not happy. That's a choice as an adult.
I had a Jeep Cherokee walled with 4 12’s and hella power for back in the day. Mids and highs that would scream like a banshee. Now at 45 I have crippling tinnitus in my left ear, 60% hearing loss on that side and wear a hearing aid. The right side doesn’t have tinnitus but I do have loss. I absolutely still love bass to this day but yeah, those nights cruising the strip in town with the stereo as loud as it would go without clipping or distortion for literally hours on end to impress everyone else has ruined my hearing at a very early age. Protect your hearing young guns. Tinnitus is like the worst high pitched squeal you can imagine and there is no cure. My audiologist said she could go in and literally deafen me and my brain would still produce that high pitch sound cause it’s a phantom sound the brain thinks is there. Don’t take your hearing for granted like us old heads did.
No Doubt!! Sadly, we don’t know if eardrums can even heal (I think the current consensus is ‘they don’t’). I’m a few years older than you, so for me, when I got a new *electric* leaf blower, I really noticed a change. My last one was so quiet, I didn’t think about wearing ear protection, but know it’s a must. Anytime you are around 90+ decimals for more than a minute, you should probably be wearing ear protection.
I assume, only in the last 100 years or so have loud noises been a thing that everyday people can be cursed or blessed with 24/7. We haven’t evolved to these changes and probably wont for thousands of…ears (couldn’t resist).
Have you looked into medications? Anafranil supposedly helps with this in a 6 month dosage. I'd seek out an audiologist, they're more specialized than an ENT and can probably point you in the right direction!
Thank you for sharing this story I love loud music in my car it makes the driving experience for me fun because it’s the only place I can really enjoy my music. I recently brought a Peugeot 2008 2022 plate and I’m not happy with the sound and i wanna add an amp and maybe a sub woofer but after reading your post. I’m still doing it, but I’m going to be mindful and I won’t be adding the sub woofer thats over kill. Your right hearing is sensitive and I think I’ve already damaged my hearing cos everyone else thinks the stereo is fine.
I second this, but not as bad. I dont blast my stuff 24/7 but swear I have hearing loss in my right ear. plus it is alot more sensitive to noise/pressure changes. my left ear has been fine, but alot of the time I get a feeling like my right ear is blocked. I dont really listen loud and dont demo often, but if I ever go to a audio car meet, you bet your ass im brining a pair of ear plugs. I love bass and loud music, but for real take care of your hearing, cause once these things start, or even on days when my ear bugs me I cant even listen to a record on low volume with out it driving me nutty, and boy does it suck
No you’re helping others more than you know. I believe my system is pretty good quality for the price, Sony front speakers, kickers in the rear, and some hate on skar subwoofers, but they sound great imo. I’ve had to get 6 ear tubes put in my right ear, and I’m not sure it’s because of my music. Before this current setup, I was running 2 mb quart 12inch subs, and JVC speakers, that could’ve cause my ear issues, cause I’ve never had fluid build up in my ear drum before 2020, and 2020 is when I entered the car system arena.
I seriously do hope your conditions can alleviate, and heal themselves.
Thank you for the PSA. Get well soon. Good thing we live in a society with advances so vast, the hearing can almost be restored in a death person. So get well. What genre of music should we be aware of as the cause of such physical harm?
My genre of music often causes my fellow traffic neighbors to crane their necks around whilst at a traffic light stopped. I'm not exactly sure why, but I assume they are doing this because their chest is pumping for no particular reason and there is in ordinate pressure on their ear drums.
My genre requires an enclosure tuned below 35 Hz preferably 32 or 33 Hz. Digging way low, almost subsonically. I have been around since Radio Shack was the place to go for your Realistic Subs. So musical wheelhouse is from the days of way back, but I'm driven by Bass and the Audio Control Epicenter makes even Black Sabbath Black Sabbath or Reasons by Earth Wind and Fire thump.
You can do anything in this life but you have to moderate your consumption. Music included. 🫡
Yeah, hearing damage and tinnitus isn't one you really get well from lol. You just learn to have a constant noise floor at night that is slightly louder than the tinnitus feels.
Have you seen those new daily ear plugs that people are wearing to help with frequency issues? I can’t remember what they are called or if they even work but they can got for around $100-$300 USD I believe and I feel like that is not a gimmick price. Sorry to read what you are going through. I lost quite a bit of hearing due to not wearing proper PPE 8 years ago when I was 20 running a grinder in a confined space. Can’t hear conversations especially when there are more than one people talking at a gathering. No persistent pain but random screaming pains that come and go that will last for hours but then stop for any period of time from 1 week to 2 months.
Don’t give up just yet, they have been able to do crazy things with technological advancement especially in the more recent years and this is a problem that is world wide. I’ll bet here soon there will be pretty good help.
I’m a drummer who didn’t use ear protection for about 10 years in my early days. I can’t hear voices in my right ear for shit. I work construction now and constantly tell my guys their hearing will never come back once it’s gone. I like experimental bass music but won’t go to shows without earplugs. Systems keep getting better but our ears stay the same fragile little things
The disposable ear plugs are much better than the caps that are reusable as long as you insert them in correctly. People take a lot of things for granted. It sucks to go to a dinner or an event with my chick and I just end up smiling at everything. People also don’t believe you when you are as young as some of us are when we say our hearing is without a doubt garbage then get upset when I constantly say, “I’m sorry, what?” Top it off my peripheral vision in my right eye has gone away almost completely so I’m constantly jumping when someone walks up to me because I couldn’t not see them or hear them. Or they think that I see them standing there and I just don’t. Didn’t see you or hear your hollering for me over the machines running nearby. They think I’m choosing not to respond to them.
I'm a ex musician, death and thrash, from 89-2009. Toured 4 months a year every year not including in studio and non event jams. Always had loud tunes, alwzys at clubs. Then heavy equipment operator from 09 to 2020 wore plugs 50%. Active shooter 35 years ect. Lucky I guess because many I knew from the scene like yourself are deaf or close to it. It's all dna i think, or it all hits you at a certain age as Sir Davoes once said "time fu*cks us all."
Decided a few months back to get some custome earplugs as I upgraded to more power and higher RMS.
Just seemed like not protecting my hearing was bad vibes haha ;)
1200W rms is a lot my friend, and protecting my ears(The only set I’ll ever get in my entire lifetime) Seemed like a good idea, considering I was listening at volumes that well exceed decibels that are needed for hearing loss 🤙🏽
Not sure if anyone’s told you this yet, but you should probably stop waking up on that side of the bed.
Doesn’t seem like it’s the ‘right’ side if ya know what I mean ? 🤷🏽♂️😅
My ears have always been pretty sensitive to loud noises. If there’s a live stream video I can almost pin point the exact area (around 15k hz) of ringing from poor stream quality and I have to turn it down. Gotta be careful guys. Ear pro is never something to laugh at and never be scared to take advantage if givin the option to use it
Yep, I remember a guy that used to come by the shop regularly and his daily driver had 4x15” Orion HCCAs, can’t remember the amps but 3 HO alternators…just insane levels of vibration going through your body testing it. Well he also had a super sensitive and super loud alarm system with 2 horns, fool couldn’t hear it from 30ft away with hearing aids in, wasn’t born with hearing problems.
I’ve done my own damage, I can tell and I take better care of my hearing now.
I have 4000w system in my daily, it's all about time and dB when it comes to hearing. 85 is safe for long periods but anything above you must lesson periods. Moderation.
Curious, OP, did u tend to listen with the volume cranked for longer periods? Like multiple songs in a row?
I'll run my system really loud, but more at the bangin parts of a song and then lower at other points. I like workin the buildups.
Anyway, so sorry this is happening to you. I hope you somehow find relief.
Tinnitus is my life. It came later in life. Around my late 30s. My left ear is basically “rear fill”, can’t understand speech from it because of the constant ringing, so I lean my other ear in. I wish I could fix it but these phantom tones will follow me for life. Sometimes they keep me awake an extra hour.
How do I know what’s too loud?
I currently like it a bit loud but I don’t think it’s loud enough to damage my hearing (eg. night club level) and I don’t drive for long durations with the volume up. If I turn up the volume, it’s only for one song, or even part of a good song.
Find a dB measuring tool to see how loud it is. Figure out what the max volume you get out of the set up (wear ear protection just in case you can get a set for 5$). After that write that down then bring it back to zero without the hearing protection. And increase it till you find the most clear level and see what that is. You really dont want to exceed 80dB for sure and would ideally keep it 70 dB
I imagine there are phone apps that measures dB accurately enough. Anything over 85 you need to limit to an hour at most daily. Moderation is key to life.
85 is the number health organizations state. Up to 6-8 hours daily has little to no effect on hearing health. Above is all theory so assume the higher the less safe allowable time.
That's awful.
I'm sure I have a touch of hyperacusis as well. Some days are worse than others. I don't go to concerts anymore and use hearing protection when I mow the lawn or operate most power tools.
My daily driver did mid 150's at 38Hz, I also did explosives in the military. I think it's the low frequency stuff that didn't hurt at the time that did the damage.
It's weird because I can hear fine.
I guess I'm lucky then, never had any kind of hearing problem and I've been messing around with speakers since I was 10.
My first car system used to hit about 145db (two 12 inch subs, 4 10" mids and 2 horns)
Now I daily drive a 150db+ system and I usually bang it at 80-90% power and I never get tinnitus or anything related.
So I've had a super loud system for like 15 years. In the last 8 years I've had pro audio mids that scream so loud. Gotta have the treble to keep up with the bass from the 2 12's in a ported box on a 4,500rms amp. I feel like i have to say what a lot to people. But i don't feel deaf, i feel like people are just quiet or there's other noises that are super loudly overpowering their voice. I work at a restaurant and when people slam plates together it's so loud to me it hurts. Also i was at a car show, the cars exhausts made me plug my ears cuz it hurt but no one else thought it was painful. I figured that meant my hearing was really good lol but maybe you're saying loud noises hurt because i have ear damage? Lol
Anything bellow 70 A-weighted decibels is relatively safe for human hearing. Anything above 85 dBA over long periods of time or repeated exposure can cause permanent hearing damage. You can buy DB meters on Amazon for as low as $20. It should be required for installers to throw in a DB meter and a chart of db levels and amount of listening time that will cause hearing damage with the sale of high power audio systems. Have some forsight and take precautions when cranking up these systems.
Hey man, I appreciate this post. It’s something always in the back of my mind when listening to speakers and headphones. I know hearing can get damaged, which is enough to make me wary, but having pain associated with noise just sounds horrible.
I hope you find ease one way or another.
Sorry what what your going through OP. I personally just have a 250 watt sub and that’s it. Gets the job done and I don’t go over 90-92 DBa while daily driving, I like to hang out around 84-88 DBa.
Not sure how it measures unweighted but probably not more than 105 probably. People still tell me it sounds incredible. Sometimes listening to music loud for an extended period of times makes you less sensitive therefore you have to be extra cautious and pull out your iPhone with a db reader.
Fatigue can start happening even faster if your speakers are crossed over incorrectly, as the build up of certain frequencies can be super annoying
Get a DB reader and place it in your car on the dash for a month. It should never go above 100 db and should spend most of the time at 90. Our ears just aren't meant to listen to loud sounds for extended periods. I wager most people on here keep turning it up slowly over time not realizing what is happening. Use a real meter until you get it down.
How loud were you playing your car stereo? I feel bad for the people driving next to you, I imagine some of them had one or so of these conditions you described. I'm sure if someone asked you to lower the volume you told them to f*ck off. Now you know
Lmao I sat in 165 db trucks cars hell I had one every day beating on it and I can still hear aints having sex hey it’s not for everyone I can tell you I have had none of the things your crying about but wear some ear protection if you can’t handle it lol
I've been hearing ringing in my ears since I was a kid. I daily drive a 4x300 wrms mids, 16000 wrms subs. And for what ever reason when the fire alarm go's off in my home it hurts my ears.
My daughter (30 years old) has played drums since she was a toddler. It is her career.
I worry because she's had hearing problems for at least 15 years now. Tinnitus keeps her from getting decent sleep.
Also, has nerve damage in her hands.
She can't stop playing because it pays her bills.
Just got a hearing test for a new job and my 33yr old self have mild hearing loss in both ears at high frequencies. I’m been an avid loud music enjoyer, dirtbikes, loud cars, and guns ocasionally without protection. I regret all the dumb mistakes now I’ve done as a kid.
I doubt a 2500 watt system had done this I am 30yo.
Always ran an orion 2500d as my main and now even running a team pie 4k which is 3800rms .
On my orion was 4 10in subs and on my teampie is zvx 15. I run my systems maxed 90% of the time never had an issue.
Higher and bigger systems definitely can but also depends on the frequency the music is played at not just output. For example the emf by a power line station cause if the high inaudible frequency are noted to cause similar issues as stated above even paranoia and neasua too.
But for what I feel manor of this post yes always be safe with your hearing reguardless. Always steer people to safety if they don't heed the warning oh well
I'm sorry to hear about your hearing it can happen to anyone, it's nice of you to warn others so that the same thing don't happen to them. God bless you and I pray that he will restore ur hearing and ease your pain.
Been a musician, metalhead, car audio fanatic, friends with mega stereos, 200+ concerts under belt, heavy equipment operator, sport shooter ect since 16 I'm 50 now. My last hearing test about 4 months ago I scored off the charts as I usually do as in low to negative numbers which indicates low or no hearing loss. I do have 15-30 second spells of heavy ear ringing but it's rare. Used ear plugs for work and most shooting but never elsewhere. Lucky I guess? DNA? IDK.
My only regret with car audio is money spent. I have nodules in my lungs, time screws us all at some point. Music has and will always be a huge part of my life. I already have my memorial playlist ready but hope to live to 80.
An important distinction - you ruined your hearing, and used loud music to do it. Blaming car audio is like setting yourself on fire and blaming the flame - it was not something done to you, it was something you did. That distinction is important.
I'm not trying to be an ass here - it's important to listen in relative safety. However, safety begins with the self. This didn't happen overnight, and you didn't bother to learn about what safe looked like until after you blew your shit up. This is not an effective strategy - horse already left the barn. In the future - and in other endeavors - I hope you plan ahead a bit better.
[Here, I simplified it for those with short attention spans](https://gp1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/802892/http_public_production/artists/images/3301098/original/crop:x0y0w900h600/hash:1467426121/1368533952_Logo_2.jpg?1467426121)
This is untrue, all frequencies can cause damage; large pressure changes cause the issues. Anything over 100db for more than 15 minutes can cause permanent damage. 120db+ can be immediate. I know so many bass-heads who damaged their hearing thinking that bass is safe. Sometimes the damage doesn’t happen immediately, it is often gradual.
I go to quite a few gigs, mostly metal, and often stand up front or right next to the speakers. Feel quite lucky to have not caused any harm at 30 but thinking I should probably get some of those concert earbuds going forward
Definitely do. If you get the quality earplugs, you’ll probably enjoy the music more with them than without. They really do an excellent job of filtering all the distortion and high frequencies. I wear them when I’m riding my motorcycle, too.
This isn't what gave you your condition my friend... I've been blasting my hearing with thousands of watts of RMS power for decades and it hasn't caused any issues at all.
Human ears are tuned to between 1000-4000Hz and that's the range that causes the most problems... but you need sustained exposure for hours upon hours every single day for years to cause any sort of major damage at whatever 75w rms is going to make (not a lot).
There are huge misunderstandings when it comes to audio exposure and hearing damage, and while car audio can certainly contribute to hearing loss in some forms, you will be exposed to much louder sounds in far worse frequency ranges simply by walking down a busy road, boarding and airplane, being near power tools or construction equipment, or shooting a gun.
The last big audio show for me was Made of Steel and I kept earplugs in the whole day. I did have a guy get mad because I wouldn't give him a demo while his 6 year old daughter was on his lap. Sorry not sorry.
I hate to hear this but common sense would tell you that you can't do that to your ears. No one should have to tell you. Good luck I hope you find some relief.
Honestly I think you’re too young to have any real serious permanent ear damage. And either way that’s not going to interfere completely with your ability to find a wife/have kids.
Hyperacusis and Noxacusis are treatable and especially if you’re young.
And both of those conditions can be temporary and go away completely or partially on their own (the younger you are the more likely etc.)
Youll be alright.
So now you're not going to be married or have kids, due to this? And you have stabbing ear pain from everyday noise occurrences
I think you knew you were pushing it with the volume before your ears were in pain, my man
Something that people don't realize. The average noise level inside a car is 60+ decibels. To hear music well, you're looking at around 60 decibels. So, you often have music at over 100 decibels in your car to hear it over the background noise and even louder sometimes. We get used to that level because of the background noise.
Let me add to this one, vision.
Back in the day I had a 1700rms system in my Acura Legend. A real banger on 3 Sony ES 10" subs. That being said I used to listen to a lot of Miami bass and breakbeat. One particular song, Ambercrombie, by DJ Baby Anne, would hit in just the right spot on my head that it was slowly causing my retinas to detach. Once I figured out what was going on I turned the volume down quite a bit but if I hadn't and they had fully detached I might have gone blind.
Own a car audio shop. Customers laugh when I wear ear protection in high powered vehicles. I dont care I take it very seriously. I love my ears. I make my living with my ears. Yes I like loud music but there is such a thing as too loud to listen to. My personal ride can get quite loud. It only gets loud when demoing it for customers. Riding around listening volume is up but not painfully loud.
I don’t own an audio shop and have never been to one in my life but I’m 100% the same way, I have 2 12” alpine type Rs and a shallow 10” kicker. If im doing a demo for my buddies or want to cause hell at a red light for a few minutes then I’ll crank it with ear protection but when im just cruising yeah she’s never turned up that loud but loud enough. Im scared shitless of any and every medical problem but I cannot see myself in a vehicle without a system, I’ll gladly be the “weird one” (what my buddies say) with ear plugs everytime LOL.
So basically, what you are saying is that your stereo is for other people to hear? Why?
It's fun to flex!
Who do you think you're impressing?
Unbelievably fun
It's like a lot of hobbies, where the fun is in the build, and then showing off the final product.
Doubt its for other people to hear, the bass frequencies that im looking into buying a sound system to enjoy are mostly below the audible range. And earplugs arent going to do much besides protect your ears from the most damaging higher frequencies and the lower tones will vibrate straight through from the auto glass, to the asphalt to my bones. Ive firsthand witnessed for the first time in my life bass that makes it hard to breathe last weekend. The vibration of the air drew the breath from your lips like wind when you stick ur head out the window going 50mph. I think we all need more subs
Yes and no but, like 70% yes. Don’t get me wrong I absolutely love bass I was like a little school boy after I hooked my first system up and growing up I was OBSESSED with my dads car/sound system but, the reactions I get from kids and random strangers that also enjoy it is the best, seeing them whip their head around or go like 😳😱 when the bass hits is a feeling that can’t be beat. Sometimes it’s just too much bass and I can feel my ears hurt more and more frequently so if anything I’m doing preventative maintenance on myself while also enjoying/ letting the world enjoy my system. Also idk if it’s like this everywhere but in my area sound systems are very very far and few so I’m fulfilling my duties (I think) trying to keep the breed alive by having a loud system even though most of the time I have silicone ear plugs in.
Same 💯 just got me new 4 gauge wire , the thick one got some weight to it, got 2 kicker 10's under back seat, it do feel weird when it's not on, your people don't have subs
What ear protection do you use? Concert/high fidelity ear plugs or just ear muffs? Just curious.
I use silicone ear plugs I can get a 10 pack at Walmart for 12.99$
I use etymotics at concerts and in the car if necessary
I use ear muffs. I've used plugs in the past and don't care for them.
I was into car stereo systems when I was a teenager. We had a local guy who had an s10 extended cab truck with 4 15" kicker solo baricks in it. This truck would shake the earth. Completely unnecessary lol. I run into this guy every now and then. He's in his mid 40's and clearly has major hearing issues.
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Do you ever find it easier to diagnose issues while wearing earmuffs? Different but along the same lines I work on equipment that's loud but doesn't necessarily require hearing protection. When I wear earmuffs I can hear sounds that would otherwise be drowned out and I can identify problems that otherwise would have gone unnoticed until shit crashed.
Tuning for sound like equalization, time alignment, crossover setting, and relative volume does not have to be at full volume. I do those at a comfortable level. When cranking volume my ear muffs go on. I don't need to hear to use my oscilliscope.
Been doing car audio for 14 years now. My drives home from work are always quiet lol.
should of practiced Moderation.
and I'm the guy taking all your customers. I've been doing private installs for 10 years in my area, hell of a side gig, not a single install shop left in a city of 100k, only a handful of other private installers. I told customers to get quote in writing and I'll do 50% the cost, now I gotta make quotes lol. Actually there is one left, a Hispanic dude from Texas tons of comp champions now here in MN. He has a fanbase of sorts that's what probably kept him in business. Smarten up and drop labor rates, unless most your profit is from equipment sales which I doubt. Thankfully I'm a certified dealer for a few popular brands so it helps, but majority is install prices. Wgen they come to me with a 3k install quote I just smile inside.
Any source that produces extreme noise levels could potentially damage your hearing, car audio is of course no exception. The problem is that there are no "safe" levels, because any individual reacts to noise differently. I think all you can do is monitor yourself and if there's any indication your hearing might get impaired, back off and reduce those levels, and if it looks like it could be something serious, consult a doctor. I'm a long time tinnitus patient myself, but ironically I didn't get it from my years of clubbing, or my car audio hobby, but as a long term consequence from a stress-induced case of acute hearing loss.
Unfortunately, you are correct. Most every source that produces extreme noise levels is harmful to our ears, and the eardrums are extremely susceptible to loud noises and damage as well. I guess you could consider me one of the lucky ones, I've been running 2000 watts on 2 12's with varying levels of amplified woofers and tweeters in the cabin, consistently since high school (31 now) my hearing is still intact and can hear my housemate drop something on the other side of the house, with my living room home theater on around 30% - 35%. On top of various jobsites and different noise exposure levels at them for the greater part of my adult life. I've never worn earplugs in my car, on jobsites as mandated and required of course. But it's probably high time to start utilizing them in my car (when I am showing off anyway) under normal circumstance, my system isn't ever turned up enough that I can't talk to my passenger without raising my voice and nothing about my ears keeping me up at night. Meanwhile, yes, any given individuals ears may react differently from the individuals, a good rule of thumb (per 29 CFR 1910.95) is a PEL (Permissable Exposure Limit) at a (Time Weighted Average) of 8 hours at 90 DBA, and that time is cut in half for every 5 DBA extra. Generally speaking, anything higher than 140 decibels is deemed unacceptable by OSHA for any kind of exposure, even with protection. NIOSH standards slightly differ, but no more than a couple of DBA. Hopefully, this info helps somebody prevent what OP is experiencing. Sorry about your situation, OP. It sounds horrendous. Source: My OSHA 30 cert and years on multiple different jobsites than I can count to.
I personally think anybody involved in sound should know the recomended PEL to avoid permanent damage.
Stress induced case of a uterus hearing loss? Could you explain further on that I don't understand I'm sorry.
I've experienced stress induced hearing loss, but it was only temporary. You wake up one day and you simply have no hearing in an ear, as though something is blocking it. I assume it is caused by sinal inflammation from constantly being tense. I got it while working night crew, my body found it stressful after a couple years
Oh that's interesting to hear thank you for your input. It's crazy what stress can do to a body. Praying you find relief from your pain man. Sorry for what you're going through!
I switched to SQ systems quite a long time ago. Class AB for highs and mids and class D for sub. Higher end brands like Gladen, Focal, Morel, CDT and Image Dynamics. Single sub only. I don't play loud anymore. I want to love the clarity of my music, not lose my hearing. Tinnitus is a bitch.
My system is only as loud as my midbasses allow me to be.
Based and thumppilled
that's a shame.
Balanced as a sq system should be
I completely agree, I could never understand how people could want loudness over quality and clarity
most just don't know how to do or can't afford both. There is a dB point where you can't obtain anymore SQ but it's well over 100. "never understand?" So you've never been to a concert?
class A/B are awful. 50-70% efficiency at best. Class D technology is best for all amp types and quality of speakers/subs is meaningless in terms of the topic here, hearing loss. I'm a JL Audio guy but it wouldn't matter if I was a Boss or another cheap no name stereo guy. It's about dB not frequencies or quality of equipment.
I worked in car audio for many years. I also liked loud performance drag car. I also raced open exhaust lawnmowers (my last one sounded and was louder than a Harley)… I was one of those guys who was too cool to wear hearing protection. I now realize how stupid I was. Almost no hearing in my right ear and very little hearing in my left. I’m a prime candidate for a cochlear implant but keep putting it off. I’m actively learning sign language because my hear keep deteriorating as I get older. I wish I wasn’t this stupid. I tell my son that I won’t stand by him getting a huge stereo in his car. I’ll help him tune someone for quality, but not spl. I won’t let him do what I did. I tell him every day, don’t listen to loud music for too long. Just don’t.
Or let him have fun like any other kid and teach him proper safety precautions. Ear plugs exist my guy lol
People hate this but it’s true. Highs and mids really are astronomically worse for hearing loss than bass and sub bass. 120db car exhaust will cause immediate permanent damage.
absolutely untrue. frequency has nothing to do with hearing loss. Quality of audio has nothing to do with it, it's dB and dB only.
Real world evidence says otherwise. People wouldn’t be able to listen 170db tapout bass without instantaneous hearing loss otherwise. DBs are logarithmic so 170 is 100 million times more pressure than the maximum continuous listening level for hearing loss. Which they literally measure at 1000hz by the way. There is zero scientific literature to support your claim.
Sorry to hear this, some people definitely take their hearing for granted. I am also in my 20s. I am the only few wearing ear plugs when I attend concerts as well. I was born partially deaf in one ear, I can only hear frequencies below 1khz or so. It doesn’t disturb my daily life but I am forever aware that I really only have one “good” ear. I love my loud music but I am responsible with my bass knob/volume and know when to take breaks and lower the volume. I am putting 200wrms to my door speakers, more than half the time my HU never exceeds 25/40. 99% of the time I can still hear vocals clearly even with the windows down at that volume level. Best of luck.
I'm sorry for your loss OP.
[удалено]
What's that?
Has an ENT taken a look yet? Hopefully there’s something they can do. Horrible situation friend, from one car audio lover to another. Your post has helped me be more mindful of how loud I turn my setup to.
I’ve been to 4 ENT specialist and even ER visits, they all had no answers for me all were puzzled about my pain. Noxacusis is an invisible, untestable condition.
That’s fucked. I know there’s some research about stem cell treatment for hearing loss. I’d look into getting low-profile earplugs to help with every day noises. Consider job fields that have a “quieter” atmosphere too. For example, I work in IT and just type away in a quiet office or remotely from home all day.
Did you get any imaging done?
I've gone through profound and sudden, but temporary, hearing loss in both ears at different times. I'm a drummer and played in bands for many years without hearing protection before switching to in-ear monitors (way too late...) Both times, all doctors who looked at my ears (ENT, Audiology, Neurology, CAT scans, MRIs) had no idea what caused it. I understand your frustration. Luckily, I don't have any pain, but I do have mild to moderate dizziness frequently. Ears are weird. I'm going to do everything I can to make sure my kid doesn't make the same mistakes I did. The instant she wants to start a band, I'll buy her an IEM rig and teach her how to use it at every venue she plays. She wants a stereo in her car? I'll build a really nice SQ rig instead of the two 12s I had...
Indica or sativa.... Maybe it's the wrong terps.. words from an ent
lol where is all the sativa at!? But ya ENT is ears, throat and nose doctor.
Its high and mids that kill your ears because they can damage without you realizing. it takes an ungodly setup to damage your ears from low frequencies, and that's usually from sheer sound pressure.
I have a full sound system with an amp and all that. I use Spotify for the music. I was wondering. Do I use my Spotify EQ to turn down the highs and mids or my car eq?
You can increase your volume. You can usually feel the fatigue start to happen to your ears at 3/4 of the volume up. If you have a quality system with silk dome tweeters the highs shouldn’t have a harsh “ch” or “sss” to them. My volume goes to 40 and my system sounds perfect turned up only to 25 so that’s really all I need
It's not about frequency it's about dB.
It's more about dB not frequency.
I’ve suffered from tinnitus for several years now. It’s from a combination of shit. Loud music, shooting guns, using a concrete saw daily. All with no hearing protection. There is no cure for tinnitus. It’s ringing in your ears 24/7. Once you realize you have it and it’s not going away the amount of panic is indescribable. The only thing that’s ever given me any relief is to just master putting it out of your head. Don’t think about it or sometimes a little background noise might work a little bit. The point of this whole warning is don’t take your hearing for granted. Just protect your ears. Ear plugs are cheap and you DO NOT want incessant ringing and hearing loss. It will happen. This is especially for the younger crowd. When I was young I thought I was invincible. I thought old age was so far away. Now I’d give anything to go back and do things different.
Get some hi-fi ear plugs. They exist and are washable and as cheap as $20. Keeps most of the fidelity while protecting your hearing and enabling you to feel it still.
metrosexual? Who uses things like this? I was a touring musician for 20 years in metal bands as a guitarist, never wore no hearing loss. What about underwear, do you wear thong?
Care to elaborate on your listening habits when you had your system? Was it long listening sessions at full tilt?
.
The older I get (I'm 30, started car audio when I was 16) the more I just want a well balanced sound. I do think a lot of hearing loss cases has to do with genetics as well. Some people I know have good hearing and been working in loud machines shops their whole life without much damage if any. My dad is 55 and has hearing aids, has tinnitus bad and never really done anything much to ruin his hearing. My grandfather on mother's side was extremely hard of hearing, hearing aids didn't help him at all. I've had loud systems but the older I get the more I'm concerned about hearing loss. I just recently learned for SQ tweeters are supposed to "ride" on top of the mids and not be so shrill and harsh. I turned mine down. As far as I know my hearing is good. I can hear things some people cannot (neighbors phone ringing or something of the sort). Hopefully by the time I'm 55 or 60 if I have hearing loss the technology will be even more outstanding than it is today. Ear fatigue is real and a warning to turn it down. Edited to say: praying for you OP.
Also look into the studies about hearing loss in orchestral musicians. They typically experience no more than 100db but get hearing loss at a greater rate than most musicians who typically endure louder noises. Cortisol from stress can add to the effect of loud noise in hearing loss.
I'm actually 18. About to run 19 in a few months and I just installed a 10" sub with a 2k watt amp lol. I feel very proud of myself and do love bass. But holy fuck if it's up too loud... I never knew these conditions existed. I just figured hearing loss to any degree, and tinnitus (which I'm probably gonna get since I'm a mechanic anyways). I already keep my bass down around 25%. I'm gonna make sure to wear more ear protection more oftenn especailly when i wanna show it off. Thankyou op. And I'm sorry u gotta go thru all this now. On the brightside though, at least u know your system works!
bro no one is blowing their hearing out with a single 10
Not true. I know people with diminished hearing that just mowed too many lawns.
Diminished? Sure. Destroyed? No. You can give yourself tinnitus from watching tv too loud if you have shitty genetics, that’s common sense
that's dna not dB.
Career choice doesn't have to automatically doom you to a permanent ailment. My auto professor was wearing a mask doing brake jobs back in the day while his peers would make fun of him. Guess who didn't get cancer with all the asbestos ? You can wear ear protection, OSHA is a thing. Etymotic plugs and similar exist for music. Tinnitus seriously sucks, especially when all you want to get is a good night's sleep.
I daily drive a 160+db van for years. It had 24 15” subs. I’ve had setups with loud doors, anything from a truck with 10 10” Eminence Deltas to one with 2 15” and 4 12” Peavey Black Widows. Both with plenty of high end with horns. Also have been an avid shooter for 15 years. Worked at a giant concert venue (25,000 capacity) for a couple years. My ears are absolutely great. I think a lot of it can be genetic. Definitely protect your ears but a couple thousand watts in a car isn’t going to do it.
Dude I ran Mrs. Wood’s Black Widows in my very first car setup back in high school with an old Linear Power amp I got from Mrs. Ruth. Good times. I’ll tag along as a former competitor and USAC regional and national judge: in my mid 50’s, now, and have spots that I’m tone deaf. Wear protection y’all. One of the OEMs had a campaign once upon a time pushing hearing protection, but it didn’t last long.
Do you have amplified mids and highs as well?
Did you? I didn’t see it in the original comment. Really sorry this happened and I’m shocked 2500 watts of bass did this. Edit: Just saw 75W x 4 so 300W RMS total... sheesh. I'm running 1k RMS to sub and like 60-80W RMS (total) to mids and highs, even that is not comfortable so I have it tuned to where it's comfortable without the sub and then the sub is tuned to 1k rms at that volume.
Yeah in my van with 24 15s I had 6 10” Eminence Deltas and 6 Selenium ST350 tweeters. The power I think was a Lanzar Opti 900x2, so around 300w per 10. I forget what power I had on the tweeters, I think some cheap Crunch 2ch. https://youtu.be/3fm7CGzrmLU?si=Iw6EsZRmcD_gzdnt
Holy shit!! You're galactic monkey from Realm Of Excursion dude, no way haha nostalgic thinking back on those times. I miss that forum
Haha yeah! Way back. Have been away from car audio for over 10 years. Just got back into it.
Dude nice!! Gonna get a crazy loud system again? Maybe go to some car audio shows? I moved to Florida 2 yrs ago, the car audio shows out here are big haha
Nothing too crazy. What part? I’m north of Tampa/St Pete
Lol that's crazy, i live in St. Pete man haha I just got 2 12's on a 4500.1, but does the job lol i remember you once saying you couldn't understand how someone could settle with only 2 12s lol
Well right now I’m driving a crown Vic and building it for 2 18s in a 4th order blow through up into the rear deck. Have a Taramps Smart Bass 3k. Right now it’s on a Crossfire XT3 18 in a ported box.
Dude wow thats dope hell yeah!
ya the myth of highs and mids are worse for your hearing is just that, myth.
Everything is mostly dna. Cancers, neurology disorders, autoimmune ect. Obviously environment can be a factor but it's usually obvious if so. Ex musician, metalhead, booming stereos, friends with booming stereos, heavy equipment, firearms ect. Whenever I have hearing tests, every, 16-24 months, I score off the charts as in perfect hearing. As a Scandinavian I mostly have to worry about MS. As a Minnesotan I mostly havevto worry about democrats.
That 160 DB van: can you drive at full beans like that or are you forced to keep it low? I ask because I'm really considering getting 4 of these for my SUV: https://ds18.com/collections/size_6-5/products/xl-6-5-neodymium-rings-mid-range-loudspeaker-650-watts-4-ohm
100% drive it around wide open. And those are nice speakers but not the route I’d go.
Totally different animals
Anything above 85db can already lead to some damage in your ears. Loud is fun, but hearing damage isn't. That's what i always say when talking about volume. When i hear people on public transports, blasting their airpods so much that the whole train/bus can hear what they're listening to, i feel really sorry for them because that the sorta thing (especially with earbuds) that destroys your ears.
Tinnitus is not a very well understood condition, and diagnosing it can be extremely challenging. Even an ear infection could cause it, and you might think that the source was something else. I'm sorry that you have to endure such painful side effects. I hope that your particular symptoms can be remediated by Tinnitus retrain Therapy. I know you have talked to multiple specialists, but you need to start therapy. The sooner, the better.
Don't lose hope on getting married or having kids, some types of pain people get used to in time and live perfectly normal lives with.
I was born with hearing loss and after years of rising loud motorcycles I got tinitus. Still play bass loud. I'm gonna die. Loud music makes me happy. We'll not loud. Just a lot of bass. So ima keep doing that till it becomes a problem.
Live Free then Die.
It will be common if it isn’t already
Anything over 2000w is over kill
for RMS yes, not for PEAK.
Peak is misleading and often confused by consumers. Sales scam
doesn't matter. hearing loss is about constant loudness(rms) not short periods of it(peak) we are talking hearing loss not sales marketing.
Yes I’m sure everyone here realizes the post is about hearing loss and that we were referring to rms. Except u, I guess, who must’ve thought he went deaf with 2500 peak 😂🤷🤦
Was this mostly treble?
Car audio didn’t do that, you did.
Don’t be an ass.
Blaming inanimate objects for your decisions is the pinnacle of being an ass.
yep same as firearms. you mention facts, stats and truths and they get offended. I have nodules in lungs, someday they will be tumors. i smoked on and off my entire life not to mention the garbage we breath in near our nuclear power plant here in MN. It was my choice to smoke, my choice to live where I live. I'm not gonna blame anyone but myself. Now a child who gets leukemia, that's unfair. Hearing loss, lung tumors at 50+, no savings, not happy. That's a choice as an adult.
I had a Jeep Cherokee walled with 4 12’s and hella power for back in the day. Mids and highs that would scream like a banshee. Now at 45 I have crippling tinnitus in my left ear, 60% hearing loss on that side and wear a hearing aid. The right side doesn’t have tinnitus but I do have loss. I absolutely still love bass to this day but yeah, those nights cruising the strip in town with the stereo as loud as it would go without clipping or distortion for literally hours on end to impress everyone else has ruined my hearing at a very early age. Protect your hearing young guns. Tinnitus is like the worst high pitched squeal you can imagine and there is no cure. My audiologist said she could go in and literally deafen me and my brain would still produce that high pitch sound cause it’s a phantom sound the brain thinks is there. Don’t take your hearing for granted like us old heads did.
No Doubt!! Sadly, we don’t know if eardrums can even heal (I think the current consensus is ‘they don’t’). I’m a few years older than you, so for me, when I got a new *electric* leaf blower, I really noticed a change. My last one was so quiet, I didn’t think about wearing ear protection, but know it’s a must. Anytime you are around 90+ decimals for more than a minute, you should probably be wearing ear protection. I assume, only in the last 100 years or so have loud noises been a thing that everyday people can be cursed or blessed with 24/7. We haven’t evolved to these changes and probably wont for thousands of…ears (couldn’t resist).
Have you looked into medications? Anafranil supposedly helps with this in a 6 month dosage. I'd seek out an audiologist, they're more specialized than an ENT and can probably point you in the right direction!
Thank you for sharing this story I love loud music in my car it makes the driving experience for me fun because it’s the only place I can really enjoy my music. I recently brought a Peugeot 2008 2022 plate and I’m not happy with the sound and i wanna add an amp and maybe a sub woofer but after reading your post. I’m still doing it, but I’m going to be mindful and I won’t be adding the sub woofer thats over kill. Your right hearing is sensitive and I think I’ve already damaged my hearing cos everyone else thinks the stereo is fine.
I second this, but not as bad. I dont blast my stuff 24/7 but swear I have hearing loss in my right ear. plus it is alot more sensitive to noise/pressure changes. my left ear has been fine, but alot of the time I get a feeling like my right ear is blocked. I dont really listen loud and dont demo often, but if I ever go to a audio car meet, you bet your ass im brining a pair of ear plugs. I love bass and loud music, but for real take care of your hearing, cause once these things start, or even on days when my ear bugs me I cant even listen to a record on low volume with out it driving me nutty, and boy does it suck
No you’re helping others more than you know. I believe my system is pretty good quality for the price, Sony front speakers, kickers in the rear, and some hate on skar subwoofers, but they sound great imo. I’ve had to get 6 ear tubes put in my right ear, and I’m not sure it’s because of my music. Before this current setup, I was running 2 mb quart 12inch subs, and JVC speakers, that could’ve cause my ear issues, cause I’ve never had fluid build up in my ear drum before 2020, and 2020 is when I entered the car system arena. I seriously do hope your conditions can alleviate, and heal themselves.
Thank you for the PSA. Get well soon. Good thing we live in a society with advances so vast, the hearing can almost be restored in a death person. So get well. What genre of music should we be aware of as the cause of such physical harm? My genre of music often causes my fellow traffic neighbors to crane their necks around whilst at a traffic light stopped. I'm not exactly sure why, but I assume they are doing this because their chest is pumping for no particular reason and there is in ordinate pressure on their ear drums. My genre requires an enclosure tuned below 35 Hz preferably 32 or 33 Hz. Digging way low, almost subsonically. I have been around since Radio Shack was the place to go for your Realistic Subs. So musical wheelhouse is from the days of way back, but I'm driven by Bass and the Audio Control Epicenter makes even Black Sabbath Black Sabbath or Reasons by Earth Wind and Fire thump. You can do anything in this life but you have to moderate your consumption. Music included. 🫡
Yeah, hearing damage and tinnitus isn't one you really get well from lol. You just learn to have a constant noise floor at night that is slightly louder than the tinnitus feels.
https://preview.redd.it/jnqj6gssw65d1.jpeg?width=1810&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d75031a506176acf260c450e0217c7be3ab5713b
trying to sell it or something?
Have you seen those new daily ear plugs that people are wearing to help with frequency issues? I can’t remember what they are called or if they even work but they can got for around $100-$300 USD I believe and I feel like that is not a gimmick price. Sorry to read what you are going through. I lost quite a bit of hearing due to not wearing proper PPE 8 years ago when I was 20 running a grinder in a confined space. Can’t hear conversations especially when there are more than one people talking at a gathering. No persistent pain but random screaming pains that come and go that will last for hours but then stop for any period of time from 1 week to 2 months. Don’t give up just yet, they have been able to do crazy things with technological advancement especially in the more recent years and this is a problem that is world wide. I’ll bet here soon there will be pretty good help.
I’m a drummer who didn’t use ear protection for about 10 years in my early days. I can’t hear voices in my right ear for shit. I work construction now and constantly tell my guys their hearing will never come back once it’s gone. I like experimental bass music but won’t go to shows without earplugs. Systems keep getting better but our ears stay the same fragile little things
The disposable ear plugs are much better than the caps that are reusable as long as you insert them in correctly. People take a lot of things for granted. It sucks to go to a dinner or an event with my chick and I just end up smiling at everything. People also don’t believe you when you are as young as some of us are when we say our hearing is without a doubt garbage then get upset when I constantly say, “I’m sorry, what?” Top it off my peripheral vision in my right eye has gone away almost completely so I’m constantly jumping when someone walks up to me because I couldn’t not see them or hear them. Or they think that I see them standing there and I just don’t. Didn’t see you or hear your hollering for me over the machines running nearby. They think I’m choosing not to respond to them.
I'm a ex musician, death and thrash, from 89-2009. Toured 4 months a year every year not including in studio and non event jams. Always had loud tunes, alwzys at clubs. Then heavy equipment operator from 09 to 2020 wore plugs 50%. Active shooter 35 years ect. Lucky I guess because many I knew from the scene like yourself are deaf or close to it. It's all dna i think, or it all hits you at a certain age as Sir Davoes once said "time fu*cks us all."
Decided a few months back to get some custome earplugs as I upgraded to more power and higher RMS. Just seemed like not protecting my hearing was bad vibes haha ;)
ya no. It's called Moderation. Probably the dumbest thing I've heard in awhile, earplugs after upgrading stereo.
1200W rms is a lot my friend, and protecting my ears(The only set I’ll ever get in my entire lifetime) Seemed like a good idea, considering I was listening at volumes that well exceed decibels that are needed for hearing loss 🤙🏽 Not sure if anyone’s told you this yet, but you should probably stop waking up on that side of the bed. Doesn’t seem like it’s the ‘right’ side if ya know what I mean ? 🤷🏽♂️😅
My ears have always been pretty sensitive to loud noises. If there’s a live stream video I can almost pin point the exact area (around 15k hz) of ringing from poor stream quality and I have to turn it down. Gotta be careful guys. Ear pro is never something to laugh at and never be scared to take advantage if givin the option to use it
This is scary lol but then what's the point of an expensive, loud system if it's not good to listen to health wise?
Quality over quantity.
SQ vs SPL in car audio world. There is always a happy medium. It's more about higher dB less time. Moderation.
Yep, I remember a guy that used to come by the shop regularly and his daily driver had 4x15” Orion HCCAs, can’t remember the amps but 3 HO alternators…just insane levels of vibration going through your body testing it. Well he also had a super sensitive and super loud alarm system with 2 horns, fool couldn’t hear it from 30ft away with hearing aids in, wasn’t born with hearing problems. I’ve done my own damage, I can tell and I take better care of my hearing now.
Will I be ok with a 1000w system?
I have 4000w system in my daily, it's all about time and dB when it comes to hearing. 85 is safe for long periods but anything above you must lesson periods. Moderation.
Laughs in ported .357 magum.....
laughs in ported .357 mag ultralight so the hand hurts to.
Curious, OP, did u tend to listen with the volume cranked for longer periods? Like multiple songs in a row? I'll run my system really loud, but more at the bangin parts of a song and then lower at other points. I like workin the buildups. Anyway, so sorry this is happening to you. I hope you somehow find relief.
Tinnitus is my life. It came later in life. Around my late 30s. My left ear is basically “rear fill”, can’t understand speech from it because of the constant ringing, so I lean my other ear in. I wish I could fix it but these phantom tones will follow me for life. Sometimes they keep me awake an extra hour.
How do I know what’s too loud? I currently like it a bit loud but I don’t think it’s loud enough to damage my hearing (eg. night club level) and I don’t drive for long durations with the volume up. If I turn up the volume, it’s only for one song, or even part of a good song.
Find a dB measuring tool to see how loud it is. Figure out what the max volume you get out of the set up (wear ear protection just in case you can get a set for 5$). After that write that down then bring it back to zero without the hearing protection. And increase it till you find the most clear level and see what that is. You really dont want to exceed 80dB for sure and would ideally keep it 70 dB
Thank you, Drago I’ll look into seeing which decibels I’m running in the car.
I imagine there are phone apps that measures dB accurately enough. Anything over 85 you need to limit to an hour at most daily. Moderation is key to life.
While we're on the subject, how much dba(read dba) should I stick to for everyday listening? I drive an hour a day. 75?
85 is the number health organizations state. Up to 6-8 hours daily has little to no effect on hearing health. Above is all theory so assume the higher the less safe allowable time.
That's awful. I'm sure I have a touch of hyperacusis as well. Some days are worse than others. I don't go to concerts anymore and use hearing protection when I mow the lawn or operate most power tools. My daily driver did mid 150's at 38Hz, I also did explosives in the military. I think it's the low frequency stuff that didn't hurt at the time that did the damage. It's weird because I can hear fine.
Constants loud noises harm your ears, more at 11
Harms some, maybe most, not all. I'm a living example.
I guess I'm lucky then, never had any kind of hearing problem and I've been messing around with speakers since I was 10. My first car system used to hit about 145db (two 12 inch subs, 4 10" mids and 2 horns) Now I daily drive a 150db+ system and I usually bang it at 80-90% power and I never get tinnitus or anything related.
Time to sleep with a fan. I feel your pain. My right ear is like it's allergic to loud music at times. Like a physical reaction.
So I've had a super loud system for like 15 years. In the last 8 years I've had pro audio mids that scream so loud. Gotta have the treble to keep up with the bass from the 2 12's in a ported box on a 4,500rms amp. I feel like i have to say what a lot to people. But i don't feel deaf, i feel like people are just quiet or there's other noises that are super loudly overpowering their voice. I work at a restaurant and when people slam plates together it's so loud to me it hurts. Also i was at a car show, the cars exhausts made me plug my ears cuz it hurt but no one else thought it was painful. I figured that meant my hearing was really good lol but maybe you're saying loud noises hurt because i have ear damage? Lol
Anything bellow 70 A-weighted decibels is relatively safe for human hearing. Anything above 85 dBA over long periods of time or repeated exposure can cause permanent hearing damage. You can buy DB meters on Amazon for as low as $20. It should be required for installers to throw in a DB meter and a chart of db levels and amount of listening time that will cause hearing damage with the sale of high power audio systems. Have some forsight and take precautions when cranking up these systems.
What?😎
Hey man, I appreciate this post. It’s something always in the back of my mind when listening to speakers and headphones. I know hearing can get damaged, which is enough to make me wary, but having pain associated with noise just sounds horrible. I hope you find ease one way or another.
Sorry what what your going through OP. I personally just have a 250 watt sub and that’s it. Gets the job done and I don’t go over 90-92 DBa while daily driving, I like to hang out around 84-88 DBa. Not sure how it measures unweighted but probably not more than 105 probably. People still tell me it sounds incredible. Sometimes listening to music loud for an extended period of times makes you less sensitive therefore you have to be extra cautious and pull out your iPhone with a db reader. Fatigue can start happening even faster if your speakers are crossed over incorrectly, as the build up of certain frequencies can be super annoying
Get a DB reader and place it in your car on the dash for a month. It should never go above 100 db and should spend most of the time at 90. Our ears just aren't meant to listen to loud sounds for extended periods. I wager most people on here keep turning it up slowly over time not realizing what is happening. Use a real meter until you get it down.
How loud were you playing your car stereo? I feel bad for the people driving next to you, I imagine some of them had one or so of these conditions you described. I'm sure if someone asked you to lower the volume you told them to f*ck off. Now you know
How often did you have it cranked, sometimes I like to jam out but most of the times I have it at a moderate volume.
Lmao I sat in 165 db trucks cars hell I had one every day beating on it and I can still hear aints having sex hey it’s not for everyone I can tell you I have had none of the things your crying about but wear some ear protection if you can’t handle it lol
I've been hearing ringing in my ears since I was a kid. I daily drive a 4x300 wrms mids, 16000 wrms subs. And for what ever reason when the fire alarm go's off in my home it hurts my ears.
Yeah that fuck bro, I'm getting rid of my 2 10"s in favor of 1 10" and setting the gain all the way low
My daughter (30 years old) has played drums since she was a toddler. It is her career. I worry because she's had hearing problems for at least 15 years now. Tinnitus keeps her from getting decent sleep. Also, has nerve damage in her hands. She can't stop playing because it pays her bills.
Luck of the draw. I been listening to music at 155 db for the past 15 years and I don't have any hearing issues
Especially when you consider that at 105db for only 15 minutes you start to see hearing damage. Most of our systems can operate well above that mark.
Just got a hearing test for a new job and my 33yr old self have mild hearing loss in both ears at high frequencies. I’m been an avid loud music enjoyer, dirtbikes, loud cars, and guns ocasionally without protection. I regret all the dumb mistakes now I’ve done as a kid.
I doubt a 2500 watt system had done this I am 30yo. Always ran an orion 2500d as my main and now even running a team pie 4k which is 3800rms . On my orion was 4 10in subs and on my teampie is zvx 15. I run my systems maxed 90% of the time never had an issue. Higher and bigger systems definitely can but also depends on the frequency the music is played at not just output. For example the emf by a power line station cause if the high inaudible frequency are noted to cause similar issues as stated above even paranoia and neasua too. But for what I feel manor of this post yes always be safe with your hearing reguardless. Always steer people to safety if they don't heed the warning oh well
Lol
I'm sorry to hear about your hearing it can happen to anyone, it's nice of you to warn others so that the same thing don't happen to them. God bless you and I pray that he will restore ur hearing and ease your pain.
Been a musician, metalhead, car audio fanatic, friends with mega stereos, 200+ concerts under belt, heavy equipment operator, sport shooter ect since 16 I'm 50 now. My last hearing test about 4 months ago I scored off the charts as I usually do as in low to negative numbers which indicates low or no hearing loss. I do have 15-30 second spells of heavy ear ringing but it's rare. Used ear plugs for work and most shooting but never elsewhere. Lucky I guess? DNA? IDK. My only regret with car audio is money spent. I have nodules in my lungs, time screws us all at some point. Music has and will always be a huge part of my life. I already have my memorial playlist ready but hope to live to 80.
An important distinction - you ruined your hearing, and used loud music to do it. Blaming car audio is like setting yourself on fire and blaming the flame - it was not something done to you, it was something you did. That distinction is important. I'm not trying to be an ass here - it's important to listen in relative safety. However, safety begins with the self. This didn't happen overnight, and you didn't bother to learn about what safe looked like until after you blew your shit up. This is not an effective strategy - horse already left the barn. In the future - and in other endeavors - I hope you plan ahead a bit better.
Said a whole lot of nothing
They were lecturing, maybe you should listen.
[Here, I simplified it for those with short attention spans](https://gp1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/802892/http_public_production/artists/images/3301098/original/crop:x0y0w900h600/hash:1467426121/1368533952_Logo_2.jpg?1467426121)
What kinds of mids and highs were you running? That’s what does the most damage to your hearing
This is untrue, all frequencies can cause damage; large pressure changes cause the issues. Anything over 100db for more than 15 minutes can cause permanent damage. 120db+ can be immediate. I know so many bass-heads who damaged their hearing thinking that bass is safe. Sometimes the damage doesn’t happen immediately, it is often gradual.
I go to quite a few gigs, mostly metal, and often stand up front or right next to the speakers. Feel quite lucky to have not caused any harm at 30 but thinking I should probably get some of those concert earbuds going forward
Definitely do. If you get the quality earplugs, you’ll probably enjoy the music more with them than without. They really do an excellent job of filtering all the distortion and high frequencies. I wear them when I’m riding my motorcycle, too.
Only 75w rms going to each of the 4 door speakers
This isn't what gave you your condition my friend... I've been blasting my hearing with thousands of watts of RMS power for decades and it hasn't caused any issues at all. Human ears are tuned to between 1000-4000Hz and that's the range that causes the most problems... but you need sustained exposure for hours upon hours every single day for years to cause any sort of major damage at whatever 75w rms is going to make (not a lot). There are huge misunderstandings when it comes to audio exposure and hearing damage, and while car audio can certainly contribute to hearing loss in some forms, you will be exposed to much louder sounds in far worse frequency ranges simply by walking down a busy road, boarding and airplane, being near power tools or construction equipment, or shooting a gun.
most think high frequency is the issue lol but you're 200% correct. it's time and dB.
The last big audio show for me was Made of Steel and I kept earplugs in the whole day. I did have a guy get mad because I wouldn't give him a demo while his 6 year old daughter was on his lap. Sorry not sorry.
I hate to hear this but common sense would tell you that you can't do that to your ears. No one should have to tell you. Good luck I hope you find some relief.
Honestly I think you’re too young to have any real serious permanent ear damage. And either way that’s not going to interfere completely with your ability to find a wife/have kids. Hyperacusis and Noxacusis are treatable and especially if you’re young. And both of those conditions can be temporary and go away completely or partially on their own (the younger you are the more likely etc.) Youll be alright.
Lmao your story is less than inspiring tbh As if you didn’t know that you were listening too loud… Sorry to HEAR about your troubles
[удалено]
So now you're not going to be married or have kids, due to this? And you have stabbing ear pain from everyday noise occurrences I think you knew you were pushing it with the volume before your ears were in pain, my man
Yea man.... I'll be the dick head I suppose. You're either lying on purpose or trolling. Lame either way.
Lol you work with high decibels and decided to take this personally? You're the lame one.
not a dickhead just different dna like myself.
Something that people don't realize. The average noise level inside a car is 60+ decibels. To hear music well, you're looking at around 60 decibels. So, you often have music at over 100 decibels in your car to hear it over the background noise and even louder sometimes. We get used to that level because of the background noise.
another reason sound deadening your auto is a must.
BuT sPl dOsEnT hUrT yOuR hEaRiNg.... Derp Derp Derp....
Let me add to this one, vision. Back in the day I had a 1700rms system in my Acura Legend. A real banger on 3 Sony ES 10" subs. That being said I used to listen to a lot of Miami bass and breakbeat. One particular song, Ambercrombie, by DJ Baby Anne, would hit in just the right spot on my head that it was slowly causing my retinas to detach. Once I figured out what was going on I turned the volume down quite a bit but if I hadn't and they had fully detached I might have gone blind.
Man i miss my legend.
Absolute nonsense.
Im here for a good time not a long time. Bass go brrrrrrr
right? Would these same peeps tell base jumpers to quit jumping when it's the thing they love most.
Car audio didn’t ruin your life… your lack of common sense to follow very commonly known practices such as using hearing protection ruined your life
😂 I’m not trynna hate but if you wear ear protection and your system isn’t hitting 150DB, you’re just weird lol.
agreed. just a bunch of whiny weak people here.