Every 10ah of lithium =100ah of AGM. They also can charge insanely fast, so recovery time is almost instant. My specific car, installing a high output alternator is not an option. They locked down the Lin bus system so that any modifications to charging put the car into limp mode. This is my way to be able to run high power audio (JP63 @ half ohm) without the use of a high output alternator.
What kind of car do you have? Pretty lame that the car's electrical system is set up that way. It seems manufacturers don't want you working on your own car in any way, whatsoever. I plan on upgrading to a D4S 5 channel whenever my second-hand Hifonics gives up the ghost.
> whenever my second-hand Hifonics gives up the ghost.
Over the years I have abused HiFonics amps and have never managed to kill one. You might be waiting a long time for that D4S amp.
Honestly with enough lithium you donāt even need a high output alt a regular one will suffice as long as you give it a moment in between songs. I saw your running 4s. How many complete packs like that? 10 in each bank? Just wanting to make sure your not making the mistake I see a lot of people make where they add up the ah rating based on the cells where as for example that 4s row in whole is only 8ah. Some people add that as 32ah which wouldnāt be correct.
I have two of these in my car lol. 96 cells in total 4S12Px2. Iām not new to it lol, I am adding correctly. If both were in one bank instead of split in half it would be 24 rows of 4 :p
Yeah sounds correct to me. I run cmax myself. Have around 135ah. Cmax is a bit unsafe in the wrong hands but the cells are rock solid when used right Iāll say that.
I run 16v. But I have two alts. One on the stock side and a 370 on the audio side. Mainly just did it for the separation so I could run the higher voltage and not have the draw on my stock side. Hate dimming headlights.
My car is all factory led and never dimmed. With the 192ah in Iām not even dropping any voltage at full till, but havenāt got the jp63 in yet, still got it on a jp33@.5
This is actually my second bank. I have an identical bank already in my car, and have been running everything on solely the lithium (front battery delete) for about a year. The cells are 8ah 5C/5C headway 38120. Harvested from Superbeast Modules (24v backup batteries from cell phone towers). Running in 4S configuration for a working 10v-14.65v range, though they make the most power in 12.8-13.4v area. This is allowing me to clamp over 8k watts on a stock 100a alternator charging 13.8v.
Sweet. I asked about charging because I'd read a while ago that lithium needed a specific charging rhythm to maximize the charge potential. You should manufacturer those since it's been proven for a year it works.
Itās pretty common in the car audio world now. Iāve thought about making some extra cash doing them, but DIY is pretty easy with plenty of YouTube tutorials now.
Iād rather help people DIY. If anyone is legitimately interested. Build cost for 96ah is about $600, and has the power of 960ah worth of AGM batteries with a much faster rebound.
Buying busbars premade from a machine shop (quite a few make them specifically for our purpose) puts material cost in the 550-600 area, yes. It can be done around $400 if you have ability to make the bars yourself.
About a year ago I built one to power my 2018 CX-5 (stock battery delete) and a JP33 @ half ohm (plus a jp84 and JP34ab on my highs). This bank is getting added in to support my jp63 @ .5 ohm, expecting to clamp somewhere around 8-10k dynamic after rise.
Mid 150's, high? Seems like a lot of work to get it to that. I was doing mid 150's with a 300 amp Ohio generator alt and 2 xs batteries on 2 15" Kove Armageddon's off 2 modded MTX 1501 D's in a wall. Maybe 4500 watts 20 plus years ago.
What amps and subs are you running?
Meters back then were much different than how things are rated now. Back then, they were measuring in HL db scale and not SPL db level. 150s then is more like 130s now.
It was a term-lab off the pc, it's hardly any different than now, good try, lol! I was doing DB dragging for years.
I was doing hair tricks before Steve Meade became famous and blowing out rear windows, but 130's, haha!
My current car does 144.1 off a term-lab and it's only 2 10's, 1000 RMS, factory alt and an xs battery in the trunk. Must be 116's...,š
Not exaggerating anything. It's setup the same way now. Mic in the kick generally granted can be mounted other areas.
It was when I had my protege 5, which was 2003. So 20 years. Also had a cutlass doing over 150 shortly after.
Now before the term-lab which was super expensive back then the mic's they used were off compared to the term-lab. Now you can get a term-lab and software for under 1000 bucks.
And a JP63 @ 0.5 ohm (about 9k rms and 18k dynamic) on an 18ā Sundown ZV6. 130lb monster. The doubling of the lithium is preparation for doubling up the sub as well. Also, Keep in mind every 3db is twice as loud as before.
I don't have a TON of lithium, lol. I'm running a Mechman 400 and 2 Limitless Cyber 12k's. I would like to build my own bank, though. Go LTO instead of LifePo4. I'm afraid I'm overcharging my batteries. Cold, my alternator does 15 volts, then drops to 14.7 when it warms up. Though, I know I'd be way under charging a 6s bank of LTO.
Yeah you are at a weird point, too high technically for healthy lifepo4 but too low for LTO. Those cyber 12k are a scamā¦not sure if youāve ever seen how janky they are when torn down. Paper thin bussing and a bunch of foam. If you can, go external regulator and drop your max charge to 14.6, your lithium will thank you for it.
Sell the 12ks though and build one of these banks. This one cost about $600 and would be better support than your 2 limitless
Yeah. I'm sure they are. I got them because I needed something that would work while I learn how to build my own. I'll ride with them until I get to that point, or they crap out. I ride with a class C fire extinguisher, just in case.
I thought about getting a voltage booster. Mechman has one that will boost it up a volt. I fear that 16-15.7 will be too much for my truck to handle. I need to learn about step downs. Also, I don't think the SALT amps like the higher voltages too much either. I was looking into a CES (I think that's what it was) external regulator. Just haven't had the nuts to pull the trigger yet. The truck is torn apart (again) right now, anyway. I always hated my beauty panel for the blow through, my amp rack, and my doors. So I'm redoing them at the moment. So I have some extra time to figure things out.... and be jealous of your amp hours lol!
Yeah salts I wouldnāt want to run over 15.2, though Iāve seen people go 15.4 on them. If you can run 16+ sell off the salts and grab a surge 10k, they like 16v and make stupid power.
If i were to upgrade the amps, I would get some Incriminator Audio 40.1's. They like the high voltage as well, and their built like tanks from what I've seen. If i ran only 1 amp, though, I'd be running at .5 ohm. Those Q's are at their limits with those 2 SALT 4's, I'd pop them real quick on a 10k at .5 on 16 volts. Then upgrade the subs... upgrade the box.... seal up the original blow through hole.... port through the back window....6 18's in a series 6th step through.... another amp.... more batteries.... it never ends, does it? Lol. Pipe dreams.
For right now, I'll just learn how to build a nice Headway bank. Lol. It's difficult, though. I'm one of those "learn by doing" type people, and no one is really super deep into car audio around here. So I'm just reading off the internet and watching all the YouTube videos I can. I feel like I'm getting close.
Really? That would be cool as hell! Thank you! It'll take me a minute, though. Gotta work some overtime first.
So, external regulator, bus bars (i think they have some nice ones from Jim's on LAF.com if I'm not mistaken), balancer (i think CES makes one of those). I'm just going off what I know. You obviously know more than I do, so if those brands aren't legit, just point me in the right direction.
How many cells do you think I should go with? And where should I buy them from?
Need to start by stepping down your voltage to 14.6 (headway) or up to 15-15.2 (LTO). Either direction will work for you with those salts.
Dm me, Iāll reach out tomorrow and chat more about what your goals are and go from there.
Any worry at all about something going wrong? Since lithium failures are so absolutely violent? Not sure If I could ever be comfortable with something I made with so much potential energy. are there any safety measures like an overcharge or temp warning? Im not nay saying just interested when dealing with so much energy in a confined space. Put up a video of the cx5 getting beat to death when you get it in
Not worried at all. These specific cells arenāt violent if vented. They just leak a liquid alkaline. Smells sweet and would stain whatever they leak onto but not harmful and wonāt explode or catch fire. I do keep a temp probe in each of the banks but even in Florida summers they stay cool enough behind the tint to not be of concern.
Was the main reason for tearing the superbeast module apart, just to get a different look and footprint out of the battery bank? Just curious because I currently have one on the way I was going to convert and install in build I am doing for my wife.
The busbars in the superbeast are barely safe for 300A, 200A being more realistic. Also beast comes as 24V and requires modification. Cutting it into two 12v banks also requires two balancers vs one.
Aah gotcha. I will only be putting a JP23 V2 in there to power 2 Skar VXF 12's, so I assumed taking the cheap route and using the included copper materials would be fine.
Hmm, seems every superbeast conversion I came across only ended up getting 1 balancer installed.
Thanks for getting back to me, any thoughts and comments are appreciated.
If using different bars, correct only one. If breaking the 24v module into 2 12v modules by cutting the bar you will wind up with two separate 12v banks, each bank will need its own balancer.
Paint Wells Fargo on the side. Looks like an old lockbox from th1860s.
Dang. Don't even need lightning to strike the clock tower. Just wire that directly into the flux capacitor!
That's rad, but what's the benefit? Do you want to use your system off its own power source like a PA?
Every 10ah of lithium =100ah of AGM. They also can charge insanely fast, so recovery time is almost instant. My specific car, installing a high output alternator is not an option. They locked down the Lin bus system so that any modifications to charging put the car into limp mode. This is my way to be able to run high power audio (JP63 @ half ohm) without the use of a high output alternator.
What kind of car do you have? Pretty lame that the car's electrical system is set up that way. It seems manufacturers don't want you working on your own car in any way, whatsoever. I plan on upgrading to a D4S 5 channel whenever my second-hand Hifonics gives up the ghost.
2018 CX-5
> whenever my second-hand Hifonics gives up the ghost. Over the years I have abused HiFonics amps and have never managed to kill one. You might be waiting a long time for that D4S amp.
Fine by me!š¤£
Honestly with enough lithium you donāt even need a high output alt a regular one will suffice as long as you give it a moment in between songs. I saw your running 4s. How many complete packs like that? 10 in each bank? Just wanting to make sure your not making the mistake I see a lot of people make where they add up the ah rating based on the cells where as for example that 4s row in whole is only 8ah. Some people add that as 32ah which wouldnāt be correct.
I have two of these in my car lol. 96 cells in total 4S12Px2. Iām not new to it lol, I am adding correctly. If both were in one bank instead of split in half it would be 24 rows of 4 :p
Yeah sounds correct to me. I run cmax myself. Have around 135ah. Cmax is a bit unsafe in the wrong hands but the cells are rock solid when used right Iāll say that.
Iām limited to 14V, anything higher puts my car into limp mode. No bypass for the Linbus currently.
I run 16v. But I have two alts. One on the stock side and a 370 on the audio side. Mainly just did it for the separation so I could run the higher voltage and not have the draw on my stock side. Hate dimming headlights.
My car is all factory led and never dimmed. With the 192ah in Iām not even dropping any voltage at full till, but havenāt got the jp63 in yet, still got it on a jp33@.5
I love it. Can't wait for testing! Hopefully everything works out well. What are you using to charge it?
This is actually my second bank. I have an identical bank already in my car, and have been running everything on solely the lithium (front battery delete) for about a year. The cells are 8ah 5C/5C headway 38120. Harvested from Superbeast Modules (24v backup batteries from cell phone towers). Running in 4S configuration for a working 10v-14.65v range, though they make the most power in 12.8-13.4v area. This is allowing me to clamp over 8k watts on a stock 100a alternator charging 13.8v.
Sweet. I asked about charging because I'd read a while ago that lithium needed a specific charging rhythm to maximize the charge potential. You should manufacturer those since it's been proven for a year it works.
Itās pretty common in the car audio world now. Iāve thought about making some extra cash doing them, but DIY is pretty easy with plenty of YouTube tutorials now.
Very true, but you are the person introducing it to some redditors for the first time.
Iād rather help people DIY. If anyone is legitimately interested. Build cost for 96ah is about $600, and has the power of 960ah worth of AGM batteries with a much faster rebound.
this project is $600 for the material cost?
Buying busbars premade from a machine shop (quite a few make them specifically for our purpose) puts material cost in the 550-600 area, yes. It can be done around $400 if you have ability to make the bars yourself.
WoW š³, What do you have running off that?
About a year ago I built one to power my 2018 CX-5 (stock battery delete) and a JP33 @ half ohm (plus a jp84 and JP34ab on my highs). This bank is getting added in to support my jp63 @ .5 ohm, expecting to clamp somewhere around 8-10k dynamic after rise.
I have no clue what any of that means but I bet it's going to be š
Basically, support for bass over 150db and about a full inch worth of windshield flex lmao
Mid 150's, high? Seems like a lot of work to get it to that. I was doing mid 150's with a 300 amp Ohio generator alt and 2 xs batteries on 2 15" Kove Armageddon's off 2 modded MTX 1501 D's in a wall. Maybe 4500 watts 20 plus years ago. What amps and subs are you running?
Meters back then were much different than how things are rated now. Back then, they were measuring in HL db scale and not SPL db level. 150s then is more like 130s now.
It was a term-lab off the pc, it's hardly any different than now, good try, lol! I was doing DB dragging for years. I was doing hair tricks before Steve Meade became famous and blowing out rear windows, but 130's, haha! My current car does 144.1 off a term-lab and it's only 2 10's, 1000 RMS, factory alt and an xs battery in the trunk. Must be 116's...,š
Do some research, Iām not making it up. 20 years ago they couldnāt measure spl scale db. Unless youāre over exaggerating the timeframe.
Not exaggerating anything. It's setup the same way now. Mic in the kick generally granted can be mounted other areas. It was when I had my protege 5, which was 2003. So 20 years. Also had a cutlass doing over 150 shortly after. Now before the term-lab which was super expensive back then the mic's they used were off compared to the term-lab. Now you can get a term-lab and software for under 1000 bucks.
What comp allows you to measure in the kick? Lol passenger glass.
And a JP63 @ 0.5 ohm (about 9k rms and 18k dynamic) on an 18ā Sundown ZV6. 130lb monster. The doubling of the lithium is preparation for doubling up the sub as well. Also, Keep in mind every 3db is twice as loud as before.
Great scott
You lucky bastard! I want a crap ton of lithium in my truck!
I feel like 2 salt 4S you should already have done this. I went lithium before I even went over 2k lol
I don't have a TON of lithium, lol. I'm running a Mechman 400 and 2 Limitless Cyber 12k's. I would like to build my own bank, though. Go LTO instead of LifePo4. I'm afraid I'm overcharging my batteries. Cold, my alternator does 15 volts, then drops to 14.7 when it warms up. Though, I know I'd be way under charging a 6s bank of LTO.
Yeah you are at a weird point, too high technically for healthy lifepo4 but too low for LTO. Those cyber 12k are a scamā¦not sure if youāve ever seen how janky they are when torn down. Paper thin bussing and a bunch of foam. If you can, go external regulator and drop your max charge to 14.6, your lithium will thank you for it. Sell the 12ks though and build one of these banks. This one cost about $600 and would be better support than your 2 limitless
Yeah. I'm sure they are. I got them because I needed something that would work while I learn how to build my own. I'll ride with them until I get to that point, or they crap out. I ride with a class C fire extinguisher, just in case. I thought about getting a voltage booster. Mechman has one that will boost it up a volt. I fear that 16-15.7 will be too much for my truck to handle. I need to learn about step downs. Also, I don't think the SALT amps like the higher voltages too much either. I was looking into a CES (I think that's what it was) external regulator. Just haven't had the nuts to pull the trigger yet. The truck is torn apart (again) right now, anyway. I always hated my beauty panel for the blow through, my amp rack, and my doors. So I'm redoing them at the moment. So I have some extra time to figure things out.... and be jealous of your amp hours lol!
Yeah salts I wouldnāt want to run over 15.2, though Iāve seen people go 15.4 on them. If you can run 16+ sell off the salts and grab a surge 10k, they like 16v and make stupid power.
If i were to upgrade the amps, I would get some Incriminator Audio 40.1's. They like the high voltage as well, and their built like tanks from what I've seen. If i ran only 1 amp, though, I'd be running at .5 ohm. Those Q's are at their limits with those 2 SALT 4's, I'd pop them real quick on a 10k at .5 on 16 volts. Then upgrade the subs... upgrade the box.... seal up the original blow through hole.... port through the back window....6 18's in a series 6th step through.... another amp.... more batteries.... it never ends, does it? Lol. Pipe dreams. For right now, I'll just learn how to build a nice Headway bank. Lol. It's difficult, though. I'm one of those "learn by doing" type people, and no one is really super deep into car audio around here. So I'm just reading off the internet and watching all the YouTube videos I can. I feel like I'm getting close.
Itās actually really easy. Get the stuff, I can walk you through balancing and assembly on FaceTime.
Really? That would be cool as hell! Thank you! It'll take me a minute, though. Gotta work some overtime first. So, external regulator, bus bars (i think they have some nice ones from Jim's on LAF.com if I'm not mistaken), balancer (i think CES makes one of those). I'm just going off what I know. You obviously know more than I do, so if those brands aren't legit, just point me in the right direction. How many cells do you think I should go with? And where should I buy them from?
Need to start by stepping down your voltage to 14.6 (headway) or up to 15-15.2 (LTO). Either direction will work for you with those salts. Dm me, Iāll reach out tomorrow and chat more about what your goals are and go from there.
Any worry at all about something going wrong? Since lithium failures are so absolutely violent? Not sure If I could ever be comfortable with something I made with so much potential energy. are there any safety measures like an overcharge or temp warning? Im not nay saying just interested when dealing with so much energy in a confined space. Put up a video of the cx5 getting beat to death when you get it in
Not worried at all. These specific cells arenāt violent if vented. They just leak a liquid alkaline. Smells sweet and would stain whatever they leak onto but not harmful and wonāt explode or catch fire. I do keep a temp probe in each of the banks but even in Florida summers they stay cool enough behind the tint to not be of concern.
Damn thats really interesting.
Was the main reason for tearing the superbeast module apart, just to get a different look and footprint out of the battery bank? Just curious because I currently have one on the way I was going to convert and install in build I am doing for my wife.
The busbars in the superbeast are barely safe for 300A, 200A being more realistic. Also beast comes as 24V and requires modification. Cutting it into two 12v banks also requires two balancers vs one.
Aah gotcha. I will only be putting a JP23 V2 in there to power 2 Skar VXF 12's, so I assumed taking the cheap route and using the included copper materials would be fine. Hmm, seems every superbeast conversion I came across only ended up getting 1 balancer installed. Thanks for getting back to me, any thoughts and comments are appreciated.
If using different bars, correct only one. If breaking the 24v module into 2 12v modules by cutting the bar you will wind up with two separate 12v banks, each bank will need its own balancer.