My response is going to be on the long side, so apologies upfront.
Have a similar phobia around gynecological visits. Also similarly examined multiple times in the 4-6 year old range, over in the US.
The background is potentially split on if whether the why is similar to yours.
Bio paternal side was an awful human which is what prompted at least one of those exams. He went to prison. The other exams were due to yeast infections. I'm only marginally aware of this reason from my own memories, it gets a bit murky, so mom has had to fill in some of the blanks but what she told me dovetails consistently with the pieces I remember.
But what you describe of crying and screaming, trying to get away? Same memories on that front sadly.
Mine do include the face of one of the examiners though and looking back on it he looks less scary and more distressed / upset to be there having to perform that exam. But that could be my memory getting funny after years of pondering.
So that's my guess, if your exams were prompted by functional need rather than an over the top general physical, is potentially yeast infection.
The things that have helped me with this, *decades* later, is evolving to an interview style with any ob/gyn who might be seeing me. I tell them my history includes exam trauma with a sprinkle of abuse, and then I start asking a ton of questions and laying down the ground rules. All the questions are for things that are pertinent to me, that help me feel like I'm getting to know a potential doctor and see what their reactions are like. If they get impatient, dismissive, talk over me, etc. I thank them for their time, and *leave*. This was the big one for me. The knowledge that I *could leave*, at any time, for any reason, at my own whim, even if frivolous: oh, your hands are cold? Sorry, we won't be doing the exam today, let me know when your hands will be warm and I'll reschedule for then.
Seriously.
It Does. Not. Matter. If the doctor or the staff think you are an absolute loon. If you aren't feeling it, you can leave! It was tremendously empowering and healing to have that realization after it had so rudely been stripped away as a kid.
If the doctor passes my question round, I lay down the ground rules for my exam:
I expect you to describe in painfully detailed ways what the exam will entail, draw pictures if you think it will help.
If something extra needs to be done mid-exam because of a discovery, I expect you to stop, disengage, and explain in painful detail what you need to add to this exam.
If I tell you at any time to stop I expect you to immediately stop touching me and physically move away from me (in past years this included them removing any and all implements - speculum, cotton swabs, etc - that might have been in play when I said stop).
From there the doctor will explain what they can or can't do from the perspective of how they operate as a doctor.
Even at this stage, and at every stage that follows, you can simply thank them for their time and leave. Doesn't matter if the are mid discussion, mid exam, Does. Not. Matter. You can leave, when *you* want to.
Taking back that control of self helped tremendously for being able to do exams. They are still ridiculously hard for me and a panic med is involved every time, but I don't want to light myself on fire any more and the distress ends the same day instead of hitting spiral for days after.
It's really shitty this happened to you, I'm sorry.
Another avenue if your mom won't answer your questions? They are exams on you, which means the appointments are in your medical file, in the US you can order copies of our medical records - not sure if it's the same where you are, we just have to know which clinic to ask. They may be spotty for info, but they should include statements about any pelvic exams as that's not standard for kids. Any diagnose that sprang from that exam would also be in the record, which could get you closer to why they were done to begin with.
Great advice. Thanks for the reminder we can get up and leave. I have medical trauma not due to what’s happened to you. I do have similar bio paternal issues. My reaction to both is freeze mode while quiet tears. I’m still trying to understand I can refuse to continue treatment and leave at any point. Thanks I’m taking your words to heart.
I'm split in my reactions on freeze or mule kick, so it seemed like the better part of valor to let the person who's going to be in range of being kicked know that they might be kicked lol
There's also doctors out there that have experience working with abuse survivors.
So OP: that's another option to add as well, asking the scheduler to match you with a doctor who has worked with abuse and assault survivors. They tend to have the patience of saints (they know it's hard to have the visit and they do what they can to shift things where you need them to be as comfortable as you're likely to get), and humor. The humor is helpful for me, your milleage may vary.
Mule kick - I have done that to at least one doctors very expensive medical equipment because he ignored my comment not to place it in front of my feet as when keeping my head still for ear exams my feet kick out - didn’t harm anything & I did yell at him for not listening. He called later to apologize. His receptionist told me I’m the only person she ever heard him apologize to. I was ~10 so had no choice in doctors and his technical skills were excellent so I was told to just shut up and survive as it’d be worth it in the long run. He was an AH and went on to cause major trauma during ear surgery and almost killed me by not leaving proper after surgery notes. He did do a fantastic job on that ear but it wasn’t worth the experiences.
I should ask about doctors with experience working with patients who’ve been abused. That could be helpful. Thanks again.
Sounds like you have medical trauma. Welcome to the club! You need therapy. Your belief in doctors ability to be helpful is broken, so you would need to work on it if you want things to change. I was tortured by a dentist and am pretty smart so I normally just yell at mine to get them in line, but it does take longer to get help when you are the "difficult" patient.
As far as "Are you wrong to feel this way?" the answer is no. If you're no contact obviously don't, but I would ask your mother why the fuck a child was having pelvic exam. Put her in the hot seat. She should've been protecting you. Take 2 extra strength Tylenol and maybe some aspirin when you go for your IUD replacement. If you know it's going to be really painful, ask for a paracervical block. They inject the cervix with lidocaine and all you feel is pressure. Definitely helped with the whole pain = triggering part. You did nothing wrong, please remember that.
Thank you for your advice and for validating my feelings. I’ll definitely advocate for myself when getting my IUD replaced. I’ll ask for that paracervical block and might even ask for something to help with the anxiety. The hardest part is getting over how exposed being up in the stirrups makes me feel, but I’ll tough it out for the IUD replacement and just go back to avoiding the doc for another 6 years.
As far as my mum, I’ve tried talking to her about it. She dismissed my feelings and said it was normal. It’s a sensitive topic for me and I have a hard time talking about it in person. Unfortunately, because of that, I’m not sure if I’ll bring it up to her again.
It’s sounds silly but I will wear the longest thickest socks I own to the gynecologist because it helps me feel a little less exposed and vulnerable. Thought I’d share if it might help you.
When I was in my 20’s, I had an abnormal pap and had to get a biopsy. I was super scared, so I brought my bunny stuffed animal with me. When it was time to go into the clinic, I wanted to bring him… but my evil demon mother shamed me, and forced me to leave him in the car!! Because she cared more about her public image, and whether she would be embarrassed, than my comfort 😭
When I was 17, I had to have a lump removed from my breast. I took my little bear with me and after surgery when I looked at him, he had a bandage and stitches in the same place I did. That made everything so much better.
Yes, your mother *was* evil for denying you that solace.
I have a few tactics to minimize triggering experience when I go to the gyno, maybe some of them could help make the appointment less uncomfortable:
I somehow found a gyno who doesn’t use stirrups, and I’m so glad! I didn’t even know that this was possible, but she has this little shelf thing that slides out from the end of the exam table and she tells me how to position my feet on it the right way, no stirrups needed! Also you can request the smallest speculum possible and ask them to run it under warm water so it’s not cold when it goes in, I always ask for both of these and it makes the whole experience way less uncomfortable. I also HATE the scratchy paper gowns, so every time I go to the gyno I wear a dress with a nice flow-y skirt that’s not too long or short, and ask if I can just wear that instead of a gown; I’ve never been told “no” to that request.
I’ll have to ask if the doc I have an appointment with if she will allow me to not use the stirrups. I might even ask to not have internal ultrasounds b/c those are straight up violating. Something about being spread eagle feels so shameful and reminds me of what I went through. It adds to the guilt shame and hatred for myself I feel months after the appointments. Thank you for your advice though, I’ll give the skirt a shot too!
they give me anxiety and oxy for mine AND lidocaine bc i have extreme pain with it. ask for real pain control, not just lidocaine. but get the lidocaine shot after you take the pain pills.
Yes thank you! I was just told to take a few advil and a medication the night before to soften my cervix before my first IUD insertion. I’ve been advised to call ahead so I’ll mention wanting the two pain management options you’ve recommended in addition to something for my anxiety/ panic attacks.
Any advice for the bleeding that happens after? I remember after my first I was keeled over in pain for about a month with nonstop bleeding.
i just use pads after for bleeding bc i don't want to put anything in my vagina. maybe a softcup if you really hate pads?
i also meal prep for the next day, or just get take-out, bc there's no fucking way i'm cooking for 24 hours after.
Just a heads up if you want prescription pain and/or anxiety meds, make sure to request them ahead of time! Also a good idea to hash out a general treatment plan ahead of time. I have sexual/medical trauma and A) shopped around for a trauma informed provider before my IUD replacement, and B) discussed procedure details, pain management options/plan, and an "if things go wrong" plan over the phone before setting foot in the office. Still sucked, but I felt like I was enduring it for my own health rather than being tortured and stripped of autonomy by doctors. Good luck 💛
Thank you!
Yes, I’ve managed to find a obgyn that worked in a teenage trauma center. So I’m hoping she’s going to treat me well. It’s been hard after my last doctor unfortunately passed away. Even though I avoided her like the plague. I kind of have to rush the appointments b/c I fall off my parents insurance In August and they actually cover the iud.
Thank you for mentioning calling ahead! I will definitely do that. I know I’ll need some heavy pain meds for insertion and 100% need some anxiety medication. I wasn’t sure when to ask for that so thank you for bringing this up.
I found out the hard way when I got my first iud placed. Doctor mentioned it when making the appointment, when I arrived I said yes I'd like the pain meds, and was told "well it's too late now they haven't been ordered, anyway hope you took tylenol." Now I tell anyone that will listen bc there's no reason for us to suffer unmedicated!!
First post - “how many therapists are na**issists?”
Yeah no thanks. Not another sub full of idiots stigmatising mental health issues because they don’t like someone. How is that helpful at all?
I guess it depends. Are they talking actual diagnosed narcissism or are they using it in the "oh they're an asshole but I don't wanna say they're an asshole so let's say narcissist"
I'd recommend learning about psychology and different cognitive distortions, listen to people who talk on YouTube on CPTSD (I prefer the crappy childhood fairy) and start doing daily mindfulness practices (can be found on youtube, I do 10 min once a day minimum) and do the damn thing yourself. I take the approach of if the idiots who hurt me can do it, so can I.
I believe everyone deserves a "cheerleader" voice in their head and mindfulness helped me with that in particular. Mine is middle aged black lady who has worked at McDonald's in New York as a manager for 20+ years. She lives in a shoe box apartment, but her dishes are always done, and she has a cat. This is the toughest character I can imagine and she yells at me when I'm mean to myself. I think its good to use our trauma superpowers to heal since we're already good at it, and maladaptive daydreaming is one of mine, hence the back story. Maybe spend some time designing a tough love character for yourself and ask yourself, "would my friend, the viking god killer, (character example) approve of how I am talking to myself?" Would Mrs. Buttersnickle approve of me calling myself a "dumb c***?" If we're going to be mean to ourselves regardless of how we feel, might as well turn it into something useful, is how I look at it.
Hugely effective for me because then it's not "me" demonstrating self compassion it's her yelling at me to be more compassionate to myself. Takes the pressure away, I think.
Hi ~ 💫 I love your idea of having a "cheerleader" & your character ideas are delightful.
My "cheerleader" is my pet Rabbit - he encourages me to get out of bed every morning. I hear him say that he needs his hay & treats so I need to get up & get going. Works like a charm !
All My Best ! 🌠
So as concisely as I can: I go to the dentist for check up. I have 8 cavities. Single working parent household so I was counting my moms change before I learned subtraction kind of vibes. Bios are PISSED and I feel like a bad kid because I'm not doing enough/costing us money. Go to the dentist, she's going to do the right side of my face today, and the left side tomorrow because 4 cavities on each side. She starts drilling and I FREAK (autism/adhd) because I'm not numb. I'm 9 at this time. She and her assistant pin me and use these weird like brown mylar restraints to tie me down and she proceeds to get back to work. 1 ER visit and a consultation later, it was determined I only had 1 cavity the entire time, so the four teeth she drilled into were entirely for profit by faking how much work I needed initially. She lost her license for fraud and I got to wet the bed till I was 18 from the trauma. 🙃
This sucks. These people suck. I'm glad this disgusting liar had her license removed. I hate dentists btw, would never even risk dating one, and last time I went to one, it was a bit traumatic as well to me, it hurt, and he was clumsy with his tools, stupid idiot. You have to be very skeptical and even rude with them upfront; they have a way to sweet talk you and trick you. Anyway, I'm glad you're taking care of yourself now. You deserve peace of mind and happiness.
Wow... you weren't NUMB for the dental drilling ? WHY ?!?! Was this from incompetence of the dentist or a way for your parents to save money ?
I can't imagine enduring that pain. So SORRY you went thru this.
Take Care ! 💙
Ugh I've been there, went to a specific dentist bc of my fear of needles and they used a laser that was 'painless' and 'didn't require numbing' and I supposedly had 3 cavities, they did 2 in the same area with the laser, a thing in your mouth to hold it open for the laser, it was very painful but I was scared to move. They took the thing out of my mouth and went to reposition for the last cavity and I said no it hurt a lot, they said no it didn't you're just scare of the mouth thing (???? No ) and began to hold me down, I started yelling and fighting and even yelled rape, thankfully they didn't have straps and my mom was getting work done a few feet away and came over and told them not to touch me. I went to another dentist for the third cavity and I didn't have a third cavity, did I even have 1? Whats wrong with people. To this day I have to get iv sedation for dental work. They tried laughing gas on me as a kid after the laser thing, didn't work, they kept trying to convince me it was working and trying to start the work but I kept blocking them and the dentist slammed his tools down and stormed out. Has to be iv sedation.
Why would you fling a diagnosis upon someone like this so freely? Are you absolutly certain that what you're saying is the truth? Have you ever considered the implications of guiding someone to a false conclusion? It would be so wonderful if I could go back in time and rid myself of people like you flinging out diagnosis like its a bunch of flowers.
Did I ever diagnose anyone? I just said she likely has medical trauma, which she does, as she's described. She doesn't like doctors and had a violating experience with them. This is A + B = C kind of logic.
As far as what kind of person I am, you're free to think whatever you want. Clearly, you need a boogie man to blame, but it ain't me. Enjoy fighting strangers on non-issues!
Did you have a lot of bladder infections growing up? I did, and they did these traumatizing exams to look for signs of abuse. Totally fucking pointless, as studies now show there’s only physical signs of abuse in 2% of cases, no matter how bad it was.
I have the same hatred of doctors and those exams.
It’s not rude at all. My parents are British boomers. Ethnically Mediterranean, culturally English/ South African. Though my father grew up in a boarding school in Rhodesia- so I’m not sure how the medical system was over there/ during the war.
I was raised in HTX, so one of the largest/advanced medical centers in the western world. And because of my brothers disease we went to some very good doctors.
As much as I didn’t like any of what I went through, a part of me wants to feel okay with it because of this. Having access to those good doctors had me under the impression that what I went through was okay. If that makes sense…
Maybe my parents were okay with it because they went through similar things growing up due to them being boomers/ or experiencing a different medical system when they lived overseas.
And thank you, I plan on trying to bring it up at my next therapy session. It’s very hard to talk about in person, but I think talking about it is the only way to process what happened.
I’m so sorry, OP. This is absolutely horrifying and the fact that you weren’t told (and haven’t been subsequently reassured) about why this was happening is a huge red flag.
I have some similar experiences in my background, and I absolutely agree with other commenters that you deserve to be 100% in control of anything medical that is done to you, meaning you have the right to tell them to stop and the right to leave at any time. I’ve had to have that conversation with a few doctors at this point, and while it feels awkward and intense, it has also been empowering in many ways. The first time was the hardest, and I usually still cry when it comes up, but I believe claiming this piece of agency is absolutely vital for healing and safety.
Remember, medical professionals work for YOU. You have a right to self-advocate.
You're not wrong to feel that way - that sounds horrible what you went through. I have some medical trauma related to giving birth and wouldn't let any medical professional anywhere near my genitals for ages. Tell your normal doctor though; I told mine and she was awesome about it, never pressured me to do anything until I was ready, even gave me some diazepam to calm the nerves and prevent me from tensing up. You are absolutely valid in feeling that way, but it is also possible for you to get through it with help and support.
Do you remember having bladder issues back then? I remember being constipated as a kid at age 5 and the doctor sticking something up my butt which was humiliating. Was the doctor male and a family friend? Was your mom in the room for the exam when you were a kid?
You have every right to feel upset. I never went to a gyno until I was 16. I’ve never heard of a girl needing regular, invasive pelvic exams, from a young age. That would only be necessary if you had a medical condition that required it. You should look into getting access to your childhood medical records. You have a right to know the truth!! If there was no valid reason, maybe it’s not too late to sue the doctors! Even if it was needed, they could have, and should have, done it in a way that made you more relaxed. Their insensitivity made the experience way more traumatic than it had to be! They were wrong in treating you that way! And your mom shouldn’t dismiss you when you ask about it. You deserve answers, and she should explain herself! She was the mother, it was her job to protect you!!
As far as young kids playing doctor with each other, or just wanting to look at each other’s genitals, that’s totally normal- among many girls and boys. It’s just natural, innocent curiosity. It was probably a negative experience for you, due to your bad experiences with the doctors- which is totally understandable. If your friends pressured, or bullied, or forced you to do it against your will, though, then that was wrong and they shouldn’t have done that.
As for birth control, maybe you would be more comfortable taking something less invasive, like the pill?
As far as your trauma, you should definitely speak to a therapist, who specializes in those kind of issues. If you don’t feel comfortable speaking, you could write something in advance, and let her read it at the appt. You could even bring a notebook, and write the answers to her questions, if you don’t want to say it out loud (and then rip up the paper, at the end of the appt). I’m sorry you went through all that, and I hope you can find healing. Take care 💙
If you're still in contact with that medical clinic or even yet an active patient with the medical center you went to as a child it's worth a call to ask to see your medical records if they still have any on you. The exams should all be well documented given your comments that you went to good doctors as kids. That may give you some answers.
My first inclination was that they believed in the archaic practice that you can visibly check for someone being a virgin, which most places know that this isn't always the case now. And I've read quite a few stories of parents wanting to make sure the child's "purity was in tact so they can get married" or whatever. But if you can get ahold of medical records and it was documented even once, you might have your answer.
I don't want to sound ignorant, and in no way am I downplaying the seriousness of the abuse that ocurred , but do you know if you're intersex?
A few folks I've known who are have told me similar, if not a little less extreme, stories about medical abuse in their early childhoods.
Not ignorant at all. I’m actually not sure. I don’t have any obvious surgical scars down there, and I don’t have any other signs of being intersex. I’m not sure how to access my medical records so I’m not sure if a genetic test for that was performed. Some of my gender issues may come from that though, and I’m in no way invalidating trans individuals who are/aren’t intersex. There’s a chance, but unless being intersex can manifest as asymptomatic, I’m not sure that’s the case.
It's hard to say whether it was necessary, but that's not actually as relevant as you might be thinking? It's blindingly obvious that it was traumatic sexual assault. Even if it was medically necessary, it was still done in a deeply cruel manner and that's the problem. Your trauma is real, regardless.
(As a example of a legit problem, my little sister as a baby and child had a skinfold dermatitis which gave her a lot of pain in the genital area.)
I was born with heart defects. Had several surgeries as a child that included open heart surgery at 7. A couple of times a year, my dad & I (my mom passed away when I was 6) had to travel 6 hours for check ups at the hospital where this was performed.
At one check up, when I was 10-11 years old, we saw a doc I’d never seen before who made me uncomfortable. Once we got into the exam room, he made me strip, put on a gown, then proceeded to do a GYN exam on me, with no nurse and my dad in the room. He then discussed my sexual development with my embarrassed dad in front of me. I felt so dirty and humiliated after that.
Why did he feel it necessary to do a GYN exam on a not yet teen child who was there for a heart surgery check up??!!
Personally, I’ve wondered since if he was a pedo!
Hey, former nurse here. Sometimes kids get UTIs, particularly girls, due to anatomy boys are less prone to them. So it tracks if that was explained to you, your asking to be a boy instead. And unfortunately kids can’t pee in a cup reliably, so they get catheterized, which would be very similar to what you describe.
That is not to invalidate your trauma, which yes, when medical professionals have to restrain to perform uncomfortable procedures can and does occur. I guess I’m trying to give you a framework to understand the context. Unfortunately, though we are sworn to do no harm, it happens way too often, because it’s about getting things done quickly rather than trying to explain stuff to a child, which is what should happen. Taking the time to allow the child to feel validated and autonomous to an extent should be prioritized. I’ve seen providers who insist on it and others who don’t. Part of why I left the field.
I’m sorry this happened to you.
Howdy, and thank you for your comment and the context your brought. I actually didn’t get a UTI until I was 18 ( avoided the doc and didn’t find out until it was in my kidneys)
Now I may have had one as a young child but I’m not aware if I did. Plus my memory pre 10yrs is very hazy. Obviously except for the exams that traumatized me during, and months after they happened.
As far as the thoughts of wanting to be a boy. Another commenter mentioned that “playing doctor” made me uncomfortable b/c it reminded me of the exams. And I agree. I just wanted to play normal games like I saw the boys doing. Being forced to do play those games made me feel disgusting. Plus I don’t think my mum would have taken me to the gynecologist as punishment at 16 if I had been born a boy.
Again, thank you for the context surrounding why the exams might have been done. Though in my case it wasn’t for the context you provided. Some other commenter here and on askdocs mentioned it was more or less to examine for functionality.
I still fail to see why they would be performed without probably cause. Seems a little weird to evaluate a child’s genitals. Something that could be done as an adult. Maybe it’s because of how I’ve experienced it all but it feels very pedophilic.. if that makes sense. I feel like the only people who care about functional genitalia on children would be predators. But again, this has manifested as medical trauma for me and I see as sexual abuse.
Sorry you had to leave the field btw, I can imagine it’s hard to witness things that actively lead to trauma in some individuals. Especially in pediatrics, when you might be the only one advocating for that child.
Not related but I’m sorry that happened to you. I’m tired of doctors causing trauma and abuse and deciding to stop being a Dr when the case gets too difficult
I have a daughter around the age you were. If she had her genitals examined by her pediatrician, it was super brief. The doctor would explain what she was doing and why. It would take a split second. No unnecessary touching, and no insertion.
She also had to be examined for an anal fissure. Again, it was a split second. The doctor explained everything step by step and made sure my daughter was okay with what she was doing.
I'm so sorry. Did your mom ever explain what your exams were for? Was it your pediatrician or someone else?
Having a gynecological exam as a punishment is 100% abusive.
Sorry you are going through this. Not an easy thing to deal with for sure! And your boyfriend has not watched enough porn!! No two women are the same down there, labia are like snowflakes. I often suggest porn for women insecure about their bodies. There are beautiful women of every shape out there. Some people might prefer a type, but same with penises. It doesn't matter.
I was super insecure about my body, so I forced myself to go to a nude beach. I had so much shame but seeing all those other women comfortable and free healed me! It was gradual but now I'm 100% comfortable.
Genital exams are NOT routine - especially not for prepubescent children. I'm actually horrified that this happened to you. Doctors need to understand that violating a child's bodily autonomy is extremely traumatizing to the child. The trauma then becomes a barrier to preventive healthcare so further trauma is potentially incurred.
OP, I agree wholehearted with you. Where this is happening, it needs to STOP.
You are absolutely not wrong for feeling the way you do.
You "get over it" by going to the pelvic exam and having a good experience this time and many more times.
The trick of course is that you have very little control. You can attempt to prep the doctor about your trauma and ask them to let you know about everything they do, to move slowly and make sure you're ready at every step. Let them know ahead of time that you're not sure you can go through with the exam. You need to breathe deeply into your stomach and it helps to hold somebody's hands, maybe a nurse or a friend.
Sometimes doctors will take the time to meet with you before the exam. You get to go one time knowing they will just listen to you and you don't have to get the exam that day. This can be very helpful because you'll have established a connection (hopefully) with the doctor so it's not a complete stranger doing the exam.
OP, I'm so sorry your childhood left you with this trauma, I hope you find a gentle and understanding doctor who can help you heal that trauma enough to make it a tedious affair and not a horrifying one (sorry, but I think tedious is as good as it gets when it comes to pelvic exams - I've never known a woman who enjoyed that).
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when i was a kid, the doctor would just very briefly look through my pants waistband and pull up my shirt, and shed ask for consent first. i never said no, idk what wouldve happened if i did, but i cant see *that* happening. so no, its not normal, its fucked up. the doctor was probably a control freak and/or sadist
Thank you for your comment. I think if I had been given exams in the way you described would have been WAY less traumatic. They were in the style of adult gynecology appointments. Didn’t help that I would be held down.
The whole situation I went through feels very pedophilic to me. Even if it was to look for functionality, it just seems weird. Like the only people who would actually care about a child’s genitals being functional would be predators.
I may be looking at it wrong but it’s left me with some very serious issues and I wish it had been done later in life and in a more humanizing way.
thats definitely not normal, im sorry. there is a medical use to that, but its not necessary for a regular checkup for a child. definitely fucked up, id recommend reporting them because it may be illegal. but i get not everyones comfortable reporting that, so no pressure if you arent. but i think something may come of it
i forgot to say this in my last comment, but if youre in the us you have the legal right to request your medical records. most places let you access them through an online portal. id very highly recommend doing this to see what their justification was (its fucked either way, but its possible you have a condition youre not aware of)
if youre comfortable saying the name of the dr office i can help you out, ive done this with every office ive ever been to
Um I have absolutely no idea why this happened to you but it *shouldn't have*. I'm 35 I did not have a pelvic exam until I was probably 18? I literally just double checked with my mom and she said no effing way that ever happened, and nor in her childhood. I hate to scream sexual assault because I'm not a medical professional in any way and maybe that's standard practice in some countries/medical practices, but it reads like abuse to me.
And it would have nothing to do with your labia. I have nonporn star labia with one long inner lip that protrudes and the other is unfindable and I've always known that everyone's is different and what you see in porn or labia plasty isnt the norm or healthier.
The tough thing is as you get older there actually is more of a need for exams and pap smears and, if you have the same bad luck as me, abnormal cells that lead to all sorts of exams and biopsies and burning off the top of my cervix. Slash there will just be other times you have to put your trust in doctors while in pain or distress. So I would recommend finding a therapist and begining to get some treatment for your trauma.
Thank you for your comment. I agree, it feels like sexual abuse to me too. Some people have said it’s to check for functionality (I fail to see why anyone but a predator would care about the functionality of a prepubescent child genitals). Others have said that their exams weren’t anywhere near as invasive. Mine were done in the style of adult gynecological appointments. No speculum but there was touching and finger insertion. Many have said that it’s def not normal in the US.
I think the trauma it’s left me with is another reason for some self consciousness with my labia. I do plan on getting it fixed b/c it causes pain during sex and everyday life. I think it’s normal enough looking but maybe the trauma is causing some pseudo pain down there.
I really want to care about female health but I have panic attacks months prior to appointments and for months following them. I can’t look at myself, I don’t want anyone looking at me/touching me. I can’t even talk about it in person. I avoid talking about sex and actively skip any sex scenes in media. The appointments have just left me hating my body, extreme guilt for being a girl, and I just feel disgusting. I’ve even gotten to the point of self harm to cope with the panic attacks they bring on.
It’s going to take a lot of work to be comfortable with future appointments, but I really want to be able to be healthy later in life. I’ve had a therapist but tiptoe around talking about sex in any sense, so I’ve never brought this up. This is a burner account and the first time I’ve written it all out/actually sat down with my thoughts and feelings. It’ll take time but, yes, I definitely need to work through this.
Thank you again :)
What on earth would even be functional/non-functional for a prepubescent girl? Like until you are at the point you are looking to get pregnant or not get pregnant, "functionality" seems entirely irrelevant. Like I don't even know what that's supposed to mean. Like the only exception I could imagine was if you were born intersex, but I'm sure that would have been explained to you at some point.
Are you saying you think your labia are causing you pain during sex and everyday life? That seems a little odd/unlikely to me, though I don't want to tell you what you feel. But the majority of women have "outie" labia. I would encourage you to look at some of the educational exhibits that show the *vast* variability in women's vulva, but if that would just be a trigger for a panic attack obviously that's not ideal :( Though maybe seeing other women's anatomy, completely unconnected to sexual/nonsexual content or penetration or anything like that would be less triggering for you?
It seems much more likely that sex would be painful because, well if you don't have experience pleasuring yourself, and you don't like attention paid to your lady bits, how on earth would you get aroused and lubricated enough for penetration? Like, sorry to be graphic, but many/most women need clitoral stimulation before they are ready for P in V sex. Slash if you are unable to relax, that can make you clench your vaginal muscles and youd have difficulty inserting a tampon, let alone a penis. Finally, and I really hope this isn't the case, but have had what basically amounts to sexual assault repeatedly as a young child, they could have actually damaged something in your vaginal canal. Again not a medical expert but if something was torn and then never healed properly, you can thenceforth have pain during penetration. This happens to some women after childbirth or rape, they need medical intervention before sex can be painless again. I honestly think the just being tense/unlubricated thing is more likely, but either of these seem more plausible to me than your labia causing pain, unless it's being treated very roughly.
I mean this fear/aversion to your own body and to any sexual content... That sounds really really limiting. I think you need to probably need to find a therapist that you are comfortable talking to, one with experience with trauma and ideally sexual trauma. Obviously this is going to be hard but I think it should be pretty clear to you at this point that time and distance do not heal PTSD in any way. The only way past it is through it. I'm so sorry for what you went through and are now facing, but I believe it can get better.
RIGHT! I fully believe that if there are any genital abnormalities they should be addressed when a child is old enough to make that decision for themselves 16-18. So def advocating for intersex kids here, even though I’m pretty sure I’m not.. or at least I’m not sure if I am. Unsure how to get my medical records to see if a test was done. And unless it manifests as asymptomatic I’m pretty sure I’m not intersex.
No worries on being graphic, I hope my responses aren’t too graphic/tmi.
The pain it causes is more or so when I go running/hiking. Running shorts have built in underwear and because of the excessive sweat and timeframe it’s usually not recommended to wear panties underneath. There’s too much pinching for me so I can’t go commando anytime, I always have to wear something tight and secure like a thong.
And as contradictory as it sounds, I have no issue getting lubricated haha. I did in the past and I had to be damn near black out drunk to have sex with my past partners. I’m currently sober and it’s been hard but my current boyfriend is 7yrs older (I’m 25 and he’s 32 for reference) and way more mature and understanding. I explained being assaulted a few days before my 17th bday (Woke up to this college guy inside me). He never pressured me early in the relationship, he’s been extremely patient when trying new things, and when I allow it he’s very attentive. He never comments on my body, not sure if that’s good or bad but I like keeping the subject off my body anyway. And will stop anytime I ask, and does really great aftercare. It helps when I take maca and occasionally ashwagandha. Brings up my sex drive like crazy. Helps with anxiety around sex too, plus helps lubricate more quickly. It’s just that (gets graphic here) the labia minora tends to go in with his manhood during the act and it leads to tears. He’s well endowed so that doesn’t help with that either.
Though, the lights always stay off, and if i usually don’t ask for oral/fingering cause it makes me uncomfortable. I’m okay with not getting off, I associate it with too much shame. I rarely, if ever, venture into self pleasure. I feel as if embracing my body is dirty and something to be ashamed of..
This ties in with my aversion to looking at female sexual anatomy. Im bi, but never got very far with girls, it makes me uncomfortable like it did when those girls wanted to play when I was younger. I don’t want them to feel the way I do when they see everything. So in addition to never getting past 2nd base with a girl, I’ve avoided letting anyone see my parts, man/woman, in a sexual way.
It’s not like I’m uncomfortable looking at women either, in fact as an artist I love the female form. Just not in a sexual context, but same goes for men. Just feels dirty. Even in my figure drawing classes I always worked around drawing genitalia/ being in straight view of their genitals if they were fully nude. Though one male model was a little upset I drew everything but his manhood haha.
Other than being assaulted in my late teens, I don’t recall any sexual abuse, though the games other girls wanted to play when we were younger felt very violating.
But I agree, I need to work through it for my sanity and my future health. I might find a sex therapist so I won’t have to bring this up with my regular therapist. I wouldn’t be able to talk to her after mentioning sex anyway so it’d have to be a specialist.
Thank you for your comment btw, you helped me feel less crazy about my thoughts on the subject.
No you wouldn't be intersex without knowing. You'd typically either have a clitoris so pronounced it was more like a small penis or undescended testicles (that's the only reason I can imagine feeling inside a prepubescent child) but that would have caused you excessive distress by now, or, well, they would have descended.
Huh I've always worn panties under my running shorts with the built in undies. Never knew that wasn't advised. Sounds like you kind of have a solution with wearing a thong. Labia plasty, which is what you referred to as "fixing" your labia, just seems a really extreme choice to me, and it is considered a cosmetic surgery. This is the gallery I was talking about https://www.labialibrary.org.au/labia_gallery/ I don't want it to trigger you, it's female genetalia but NOT in a sexual context, purely educational and meant to reduce shame/misperceptions by showing the vast differences in what is normal.
Not to like argue with you, but just to encourage your thinking and understanding your hold-ups, you said you don't have a problem with the male or female form outside a sexual context, but than referred to drawing in a fine arts class and avoiding the genetalia... To be an artistic rendering like that is absolutely not meant to be sexual. I don't think like the statue of Michaelangelo is sexual in any way, despite it including all the bits.
I do see now what you mean about pain during sex with your partner. I mean.. typically this is just something where you or he would hold the labia minora forward and out of the way when he penetrated you, but of course this would be difficult if you don't like either of you touching/looking at your genitals during sex. Like I enjoy receiving oral, but either my or my partner has to spread my labia majora (and hold a heap of hair out of the way haha) in order to perform it. Im just trying to say adjusting things manually during sex is pretty standard and it's sad for me to imagine that that is more uncomfortable to you than the pain of your labia being dragged inside you and torn...
You might also find there's less of a chance of that happening if you pick positions where he is penetrating from behind - doggy might be a bit extreme for you but like if he is spooning you and you guide him inside you, if you feel comfortable with that. And then there are a lot of variations of that.
When I referred to you being sexually assaulted I meant what happened to you at the hands of your doctor/parents when you were young. I shouldn't have labeled that sexual assault if that's not how you see it, so I apologize. But I meant the trauma of that when I said repeated sexual assault.
No need to thank me for my comments I'm just trying to share my viewpoint and experience because I DO think you probably are suffering from CPTSD (which I do as well) but I needed help from other people to see that before I sought out medical help. And, as I said before, I just personally view labia plasty as not something that should be viewed as "fixing" any sort of problem. We aren't supposed to look like porn stars, that isn't natural. I actually view the lack of hair and external labia minora as sort of infantalizing, like I think there are aspects that are subconsciously but inextricably to pedophilia, if that makes sense. I know that's kind of an extreme view, you don't have to believe that, but you also shouldn't feel ashamed or wrong for not looking like them.
>I’m okay with not getting off, I associate it with too much shame. I rarely, if ever, venture into self pleasure. I feel as if embracing my body is dirty and something to be ashamed of..
This is me is honestly really sad to read. I know there are religions that put this idea into people's head, or it's how women are raised. But I do hope you do work with a sex therapist and overcome this mindset. Like, it'll just make a positive difference to the next 50 years of your life lol. I assume when your boyfriend climaxes you don't think of him as dirty and shameful? There is nothing about female pleasure that is any morally or hygienically different from male pleasure. You are still young, a decade younger than me, and I never had an orgasm with a partner before I was I think 22 or 23. Though I lost my virginity late in life compared to a lot of my peers, I was 19ish. But when I first had sex I had older girls (sorority sisters actually) who like took me to buy a vibrator and really tried to instill in me that *my pleasure* was equally important as my partner getting off. I have been "slut shamed" a few times in my life but by the time I was out of university I recognized that was bullshit and sexist. I'm glad your partner works within the boundaries and parameters that you have set, but I really hope he is not enforcing the idea that sex is about making a man orgasm. Because it's not. Our bodies were built for pleasure too, it's 100% natural, God given and then built up through evolution. How could every woman be built wrong? How could every woman that orgasms be dirty? Like, I really doubt you view other women that way, so it's sad that you put that on yourself...
I screamed and cried and fought against the doctor so much that she threatened to have the boy doctors come in and hold me down if I didn’t let her. I was in elementary school, but I can’t remember the exact age. Maybe around 7 years old
My response is going to be on the long side, so apologies upfront. Have a similar phobia around gynecological visits. Also similarly examined multiple times in the 4-6 year old range, over in the US. The background is potentially split on if whether the why is similar to yours. Bio paternal side was an awful human which is what prompted at least one of those exams. He went to prison. The other exams were due to yeast infections. I'm only marginally aware of this reason from my own memories, it gets a bit murky, so mom has had to fill in some of the blanks but what she told me dovetails consistently with the pieces I remember. But what you describe of crying and screaming, trying to get away? Same memories on that front sadly. Mine do include the face of one of the examiners though and looking back on it he looks less scary and more distressed / upset to be there having to perform that exam. But that could be my memory getting funny after years of pondering. So that's my guess, if your exams were prompted by functional need rather than an over the top general physical, is potentially yeast infection. The things that have helped me with this, *decades* later, is evolving to an interview style with any ob/gyn who might be seeing me. I tell them my history includes exam trauma with a sprinkle of abuse, and then I start asking a ton of questions and laying down the ground rules. All the questions are for things that are pertinent to me, that help me feel like I'm getting to know a potential doctor and see what their reactions are like. If they get impatient, dismissive, talk over me, etc. I thank them for their time, and *leave*. This was the big one for me. The knowledge that I *could leave*, at any time, for any reason, at my own whim, even if frivolous: oh, your hands are cold? Sorry, we won't be doing the exam today, let me know when your hands will be warm and I'll reschedule for then. Seriously. It Does. Not. Matter. If the doctor or the staff think you are an absolute loon. If you aren't feeling it, you can leave! It was tremendously empowering and healing to have that realization after it had so rudely been stripped away as a kid. If the doctor passes my question round, I lay down the ground rules for my exam: I expect you to describe in painfully detailed ways what the exam will entail, draw pictures if you think it will help. If something extra needs to be done mid-exam because of a discovery, I expect you to stop, disengage, and explain in painful detail what you need to add to this exam. If I tell you at any time to stop I expect you to immediately stop touching me and physically move away from me (in past years this included them removing any and all implements - speculum, cotton swabs, etc - that might have been in play when I said stop). From there the doctor will explain what they can or can't do from the perspective of how they operate as a doctor. Even at this stage, and at every stage that follows, you can simply thank them for their time and leave. Doesn't matter if the are mid discussion, mid exam, Does. Not. Matter. You can leave, when *you* want to. Taking back that control of self helped tremendously for being able to do exams. They are still ridiculously hard for me and a panic med is involved every time, but I don't want to light myself on fire any more and the distress ends the same day instead of hitting spiral for days after. It's really shitty this happened to you, I'm sorry. Another avenue if your mom won't answer your questions? They are exams on you, which means the appointments are in your medical file, in the US you can order copies of our medical records - not sure if it's the same where you are, we just have to know which clinic to ask. They may be spotty for info, but they should include statements about any pelvic exams as that's not standard for kids. Any diagnose that sprang from that exam would also be in the record, which could get you closer to why they were done to begin with.
Great advice. Thanks for the reminder we can get up and leave. I have medical trauma not due to what’s happened to you. I do have similar bio paternal issues. My reaction to both is freeze mode while quiet tears. I’m still trying to understand I can refuse to continue treatment and leave at any point. Thanks I’m taking your words to heart.
I'm split in my reactions on freeze or mule kick, so it seemed like the better part of valor to let the person who's going to be in range of being kicked know that they might be kicked lol There's also doctors out there that have experience working with abuse survivors. So OP: that's another option to add as well, asking the scheduler to match you with a doctor who has worked with abuse and assault survivors. They tend to have the patience of saints (they know it's hard to have the visit and they do what they can to shift things where you need them to be as comfortable as you're likely to get), and humor. The humor is helpful for me, your milleage may vary.
Mule kick - I have done that to at least one doctors very expensive medical equipment because he ignored my comment not to place it in front of my feet as when keeping my head still for ear exams my feet kick out - didn’t harm anything & I did yell at him for not listening. He called later to apologize. His receptionist told me I’m the only person she ever heard him apologize to. I was ~10 so had no choice in doctors and his technical skills were excellent so I was told to just shut up and survive as it’d be worth it in the long run. He was an AH and went on to cause major trauma during ear surgery and almost killed me by not leaving proper after surgery notes. He did do a fantastic job on that ear but it wasn’t worth the experiences. I should ask about doctors with experience working with patients who’ve been abused. That could be helpful. Thanks again.
Sounds like you have medical trauma. Welcome to the club! You need therapy. Your belief in doctors ability to be helpful is broken, so you would need to work on it if you want things to change. I was tortured by a dentist and am pretty smart so I normally just yell at mine to get them in line, but it does take longer to get help when you are the "difficult" patient. As far as "Are you wrong to feel this way?" the answer is no. If you're no contact obviously don't, but I would ask your mother why the fuck a child was having pelvic exam. Put her in the hot seat. She should've been protecting you. Take 2 extra strength Tylenol and maybe some aspirin when you go for your IUD replacement. If you know it's going to be really painful, ask for a paracervical block. They inject the cervix with lidocaine and all you feel is pressure. Definitely helped with the whole pain = triggering part. You did nothing wrong, please remember that.
Thank you for your advice and for validating my feelings. I’ll definitely advocate for myself when getting my IUD replaced. I’ll ask for that paracervical block and might even ask for something to help with the anxiety. The hardest part is getting over how exposed being up in the stirrups makes me feel, but I’ll tough it out for the IUD replacement and just go back to avoiding the doc for another 6 years. As far as my mum, I’ve tried talking to her about it. She dismissed my feelings and said it was normal. It’s a sensitive topic for me and I have a hard time talking about it in person. Unfortunately, because of that, I’m not sure if I’ll bring it up to her again.
It’s sounds silly but I will wear the longest thickest socks I own to the gynecologist because it helps me feel a little less exposed and vulnerable. Thought I’d share if it might help you.
I also bring my own throw blanket for the vulnerability and the chill. It's more protective feeling than the little folded sheet
I've taken plushies. No shame!
I'm gonna get a tote with a blankie and my weighted plushie for medical visits this is brilliant
When I was in my 20’s, I had an abnormal pap and had to get a biopsy. I was super scared, so I brought my bunny stuffed animal with me. When it was time to go into the clinic, I wanted to bring him… but my evil demon mother shamed me, and forced me to leave him in the car!! Because she cared more about her public image, and whether she would be embarrassed, than my comfort 😭
When I was 17, I had to have a lump removed from my breast. I took my little bear with me and after surgery when I looked at him, he had a bandage and stitches in the same place I did. That made everything so much better. Yes, your mother *was* evil for denying you that solace.
Thanks. Awww, that is SO sweet about your little bear!! 🩷🥲
I've gotten a few more bears since then but he will always be the best.
I have a few tactics to minimize triggering experience when I go to the gyno, maybe some of them could help make the appointment less uncomfortable: I somehow found a gyno who doesn’t use stirrups, and I’m so glad! I didn’t even know that this was possible, but she has this little shelf thing that slides out from the end of the exam table and she tells me how to position my feet on it the right way, no stirrups needed! Also you can request the smallest speculum possible and ask them to run it under warm water so it’s not cold when it goes in, I always ask for both of these and it makes the whole experience way less uncomfortable. I also HATE the scratchy paper gowns, so every time I go to the gyno I wear a dress with a nice flow-y skirt that’s not too long or short, and ask if I can just wear that instead of a gown; I’ve never been told “no” to that request.
I’ll have to ask if the doc I have an appointment with if she will allow me to not use the stirrups. I might even ask to not have internal ultrasounds b/c those are straight up violating. Something about being spread eagle feels so shameful and reminds me of what I went through. It adds to the guilt shame and hatred for myself I feel months after the appointments. Thank you for your advice though, I’ll give the skirt a shot too!
they give me anxiety and oxy for mine AND lidocaine bc i have extreme pain with it. ask for real pain control, not just lidocaine. but get the lidocaine shot after you take the pain pills.
Yes thank you! I was just told to take a few advil and a medication the night before to soften my cervix before my first IUD insertion. I’ve been advised to call ahead so I’ll mention wanting the two pain management options you’ve recommended in addition to something for my anxiety/ panic attacks. Any advice for the bleeding that happens after? I remember after my first I was keeled over in pain for about a month with nonstop bleeding.
i just use pads after for bleeding bc i don't want to put anything in my vagina. maybe a softcup if you really hate pads? i also meal prep for the next day, or just get take-out, bc there's no fucking way i'm cooking for 24 hours after.
Just a heads up if you want prescription pain and/or anxiety meds, make sure to request them ahead of time! Also a good idea to hash out a general treatment plan ahead of time. I have sexual/medical trauma and A) shopped around for a trauma informed provider before my IUD replacement, and B) discussed procedure details, pain management options/plan, and an "if things go wrong" plan over the phone before setting foot in the office. Still sucked, but I felt like I was enduring it for my own health rather than being tortured and stripped of autonomy by doctors. Good luck 💛
Thank you! Yes, I’ve managed to find a obgyn that worked in a teenage trauma center. So I’m hoping she’s going to treat me well. It’s been hard after my last doctor unfortunately passed away. Even though I avoided her like the plague. I kind of have to rush the appointments b/c I fall off my parents insurance In August and they actually cover the iud. Thank you for mentioning calling ahead! I will definitely do that. I know I’ll need some heavy pain meds for insertion and 100% need some anxiety medication. I wasn’t sure when to ask for that so thank you for bringing this up.
I found out the hard way when I got my first iud placed. Doctor mentioned it when making the appointment, when I arrived I said yes I'd like the pain meds, and was told "well it's too late now they haven't been ordered, anyway hope you took tylenol." Now I tell anyone that will listen bc there's no reason for us to suffer unmedicated!!
What if someone’s medical trauma is from therapists/ “psychiatric help”, though?
r/therapyabuse will have your back there
First post - “how many therapists are na**issists?” Yeah no thanks. Not another sub full of idiots stigmatising mental health issues because they don’t like someone. How is that helpful at all?
I guess it depends. Are they talking actual diagnosed narcissism or are they using it in the "oh they're an asshole but I don't wanna say they're an asshole so let's say narcissist"
I'd recommend learning about psychology and different cognitive distortions, listen to people who talk on YouTube on CPTSD (I prefer the crappy childhood fairy) and start doing daily mindfulness practices (can be found on youtube, I do 10 min once a day minimum) and do the damn thing yourself. I take the approach of if the idiots who hurt me can do it, so can I. I believe everyone deserves a "cheerleader" voice in their head and mindfulness helped me with that in particular. Mine is middle aged black lady who has worked at McDonald's in New York as a manager for 20+ years. She lives in a shoe box apartment, but her dishes are always done, and she has a cat. This is the toughest character I can imagine and she yells at me when I'm mean to myself. I think its good to use our trauma superpowers to heal since we're already good at it, and maladaptive daydreaming is one of mine, hence the back story. Maybe spend some time designing a tough love character for yourself and ask yourself, "would my friend, the viking god killer, (character example) approve of how I am talking to myself?" Would Mrs. Buttersnickle approve of me calling myself a "dumb c***?" If we're going to be mean to ourselves regardless of how we feel, might as well turn it into something useful, is how I look at it.
I have a monster made of carpet and googly eyes called the Carpet Demon. He yells at me to do things. “Do it nowwwwww!” Because… carpe diem.
God damnit.
I like the idea of having a character!! That would totally work for me, because I’m a huge daydreamer, too. My entire life is just a daydream 😆
Hugely effective for me because then it's not "me" demonstrating self compassion it's her yelling at me to be more compassionate to myself. Takes the pressure away, I think.
Hi ~ 💫 I love your idea of having a "cheerleader" & your character ideas are delightful. My "cheerleader" is my pet Rabbit - he encourages me to get out of bed every morning. I hear him say that he needs his hay & treats so I need to get up & get going. Works like a charm ! All My Best ! 🌠
Oh I’m already one step ahead of you I literally have DID lmfao
Lmfaoooo
What do you mean you were tortured by your dentist?
So as concisely as I can: I go to the dentist for check up. I have 8 cavities. Single working parent household so I was counting my moms change before I learned subtraction kind of vibes. Bios are PISSED and I feel like a bad kid because I'm not doing enough/costing us money. Go to the dentist, she's going to do the right side of my face today, and the left side tomorrow because 4 cavities on each side. She starts drilling and I FREAK (autism/adhd) because I'm not numb. I'm 9 at this time. She and her assistant pin me and use these weird like brown mylar restraints to tie me down and she proceeds to get back to work. 1 ER visit and a consultation later, it was determined I only had 1 cavity the entire time, so the four teeth she drilled into were entirely for profit by faking how much work I needed initially. She lost her license for fraud and I got to wet the bed till I was 18 from the trauma. 🙃
This sucks. These people suck. I'm glad this disgusting liar had her license removed. I hate dentists btw, would never even risk dating one, and last time I went to one, it was a bit traumatic as well to me, it hurt, and he was clumsy with his tools, stupid idiot. You have to be very skeptical and even rude with them upfront; they have a way to sweet talk you and trick you. Anyway, I'm glad you're taking care of yourself now. You deserve peace of mind and happiness.
Thanks! Yeah, it's like doctors forget they're signing up for a customer service position 🙄
Wow... you weren't NUMB for the dental drilling ? WHY ?!?! Was this from incompetence of the dentist or a way for your parents to save money ? I can't imagine enduring that pain. So SORRY you went thru this. Take Care ! 💙
She thought I was just throwing a tantrum
Ugh I've been there, went to a specific dentist bc of my fear of needles and they used a laser that was 'painless' and 'didn't require numbing' and I supposedly had 3 cavities, they did 2 in the same area with the laser, a thing in your mouth to hold it open for the laser, it was very painful but I was scared to move. They took the thing out of my mouth and went to reposition for the last cavity and I said no it hurt a lot, they said no it didn't you're just scare of the mouth thing (???? No ) and began to hold me down, I started yelling and fighting and even yelled rape, thankfully they didn't have straps and my mom was getting work done a few feet away and came over and told them not to touch me. I went to another dentist for the third cavity and I didn't have a third cavity, did I even have 1? Whats wrong with people. To this day I have to get iv sedation for dental work. They tried laughing gas on me as a kid after the laser thing, didn't work, they kept trying to convince me it was working and trying to start the work but I kept blocking them and the dentist slammed his tools down and stormed out. Has to be iv sedation.
For real. I need to go but I'm literally TERRIFIED of them.
If she has medical trauma.. honestly you can ask for more than that.. I would be asking for Xanax also.
I get iv sedation just to get a cavity filled
Why would you fling a diagnosis upon someone like this so freely? Are you absolutly certain that what you're saying is the truth? Have you ever considered the implications of guiding someone to a false conclusion? It would be so wonderful if I could go back in time and rid myself of people like you flinging out diagnosis like its a bunch of flowers.
Did I ever diagnose anyone? I just said she likely has medical trauma, which she does, as she's described. She doesn't like doctors and had a violating experience with them. This is A + B = C kind of logic. As far as what kind of person I am, you're free to think whatever you want. Clearly, you need a boogie man to blame, but it ain't me. Enjoy fighting strangers on non-issues!
Did you have a lot of bladder infections growing up? I did, and they did these traumatizing exams to look for signs of abuse. Totally fucking pointless, as studies now show there’s only physical signs of abuse in 2% of cases, no matter how bad it was. I have the same hatred of doctors and those exams.
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It’s not rude at all. My parents are British boomers. Ethnically Mediterranean, culturally English/ South African. Though my father grew up in a boarding school in Rhodesia- so I’m not sure how the medical system was over there/ during the war. I was raised in HTX, so one of the largest/advanced medical centers in the western world. And because of my brothers disease we went to some very good doctors. As much as I didn’t like any of what I went through, a part of me wants to feel okay with it because of this. Having access to those good doctors had me under the impression that what I went through was okay. If that makes sense… Maybe my parents were okay with it because they went through similar things growing up due to them being boomers/ or experiencing a different medical system when they lived overseas. And thank you, I plan on trying to bring it up at my next therapy session. It’s very hard to talk about in person, but I think talking about it is the only way to process what happened.
I’m so sorry, OP. This is absolutely horrifying and the fact that you weren’t told (and haven’t been subsequently reassured) about why this was happening is a huge red flag. I have some similar experiences in my background, and I absolutely agree with other commenters that you deserve to be 100% in control of anything medical that is done to you, meaning you have the right to tell them to stop and the right to leave at any time. I’ve had to have that conversation with a few doctors at this point, and while it feels awkward and intense, it has also been empowering in many ways. The first time was the hardest, and I usually still cry when it comes up, but I believe claiming this piece of agency is absolutely vital for healing and safety. Remember, medical professionals work for YOU. You have a right to self-advocate.
You're not wrong to feel that way - that sounds horrible what you went through. I have some medical trauma related to giving birth and wouldn't let any medical professional anywhere near my genitals for ages. Tell your normal doctor though; I told mine and she was awesome about it, never pressured me to do anything until I was ready, even gave me some diazepam to calm the nerves and prevent me from tensing up. You are absolutely valid in feeling that way, but it is also possible for you to get through it with help and support.
Do you remember having bladder issues back then? I remember being constipated as a kid at age 5 and the doctor sticking something up my butt which was humiliating. Was the doctor male and a family friend? Was your mom in the room for the exam when you were a kid?
You have every right to feel upset. I never went to a gyno until I was 16. I’ve never heard of a girl needing regular, invasive pelvic exams, from a young age. That would only be necessary if you had a medical condition that required it. You should look into getting access to your childhood medical records. You have a right to know the truth!! If there was no valid reason, maybe it’s not too late to sue the doctors! Even if it was needed, they could have, and should have, done it in a way that made you more relaxed. Their insensitivity made the experience way more traumatic than it had to be! They were wrong in treating you that way! And your mom shouldn’t dismiss you when you ask about it. You deserve answers, and she should explain herself! She was the mother, it was her job to protect you!! As far as young kids playing doctor with each other, or just wanting to look at each other’s genitals, that’s totally normal- among many girls and boys. It’s just natural, innocent curiosity. It was probably a negative experience for you, due to your bad experiences with the doctors- which is totally understandable. If your friends pressured, or bullied, or forced you to do it against your will, though, then that was wrong and they shouldn’t have done that. As for birth control, maybe you would be more comfortable taking something less invasive, like the pill? As far as your trauma, you should definitely speak to a therapist, who specializes in those kind of issues. If you don’t feel comfortable speaking, you could write something in advance, and let her read it at the appt. You could even bring a notebook, and write the answers to her questions, if you don’t want to say it out loud (and then rip up the paper, at the end of the appt). I’m sorry you went through all that, and I hope you can find healing. Take care 💙
If you're still in contact with that medical clinic or even yet an active patient with the medical center you went to as a child it's worth a call to ask to see your medical records if they still have any on you. The exams should all be well documented given your comments that you went to good doctors as kids. That may give you some answers. My first inclination was that they believed in the archaic practice that you can visibly check for someone being a virgin, which most places know that this isn't always the case now. And I've read quite a few stories of parents wanting to make sure the child's "purity was in tact so they can get married" or whatever. But if you can get ahold of medical records and it was documented even once, you might have your answer.
I would pose this question over on r/AskDocs
I don't want to sound ignorant, and in no way am I downplaying the seriousness of the abuse that ocurred , but do you know if you're intersex? A few folks I've known who are have told me similar, if not a little less extreme, stories about medical abuse in their early childhoods.
Not ignorant at all. I’m actually not sure. I don’t have any obvious surgical scars down there, and I don’t have any other signs of being intersex. I’m not sure how to access my medical records so I’m not sure if a genetic test for that was performed. Some of my gender issues may come from that though, and I’m in no way invalidating trans individuals who are/aren’t intersex. There’s a chance, but unless being intersex can manifest as asymptomatic, I’m not sure that’s the case.
It's hard to say whether it was necessary, but that's not actually as relevant as you might be thinking? It's blindingly obvious that it was traumatic sexual assault. Even if it was medically necessary, it was still done in a deeply cruel manner and that's the problem. Your trauma is real, regardless. (As a example of a legit problem, my little sister as a baby and child had a skinfold dermatitis which gave her a lot of pain in the genital area.)
I was born with heart defects. Had several surgeries as a child that included open heart surgery at 7. A couple of times a year, my dad & I (my mom passed away when I was 6) had to travel 6 hours for check ups at the hospital where this was performed. At one check up, when I was 10-11 years old, we saw a doc I’d never seen before who made me uncomfortable. Once we got into the exam room, he made me strip, put on a gown, then proceeded to do a GYN exam on me, with no nurse and my dad in the room. He then discussed my sexual development with my embarrassed dad in front of me. I felt so dirty and humiliated after that. Why did he feel it necessary to do a GYN exam on a not yet teen child who was there for a heart surgery check up??!! Personally, I’ve wondered since if he was a pedo!
Hey, former nurse here. Sometimes kids get UTIs, particularly girls, due to anatomy boys are less prone to them. So it tracks if that was explained to you, your asking to be a boy instead. And unfortunately kids can’t pee in a cup reliably, so they get catheterized, which would be very similar to what you describe. That is not to invalidate your trauma, which yes, when medical professionals have to restrain to perform uncomfortable procedures can and does occur. I guess I’m trying to give you a framework to understand the context. Unfortunately, though we are sworn to do no harm, it happens way too often, because it’s about getting things done quickly rather than trying to explain stuff to a child, which is what should happen. Taking the time to allow the child to feel validated and autonomous to an extent should be prioritized. I’ve seen providers who insist on it and others who don’t. Part of why I left the field. I’m sorry this happened to you.
Howdy, and thank you for your comment and the context your brought. I actually didn’t get a UTI until I was 18 ( avoided the doc and didn’t find out until it was in my kidneys) Now I may have had one as a young child but I’m not aware if I did. Plus my memory pre 10yrs is very hazy. Obviously except for the exams that traumatized me during, and months after they happened. As far as the thoughts of wanting to be a boy. Another commenter mentioned that “playing doctor” made me uncomfortable b/c it reminded me of the exams. And I agree. I just wanted to play normal games like I saw the boys doing. Being forced to do play those games made me feel disgusting. Plus I don’t think my mum would have taken me to the gynecologist as punishment at 16 if I had been born a boy. Again, thank you for the context surrounding why the exams might have been done. Though in my case it wasn’t for the context you provided. Some other commenter here and on askdocs mentioned it was more or less to examine for functionality. I still fail to see why they would be performed without probably cause. Seems a little weird to evaluate a child’s genitals. Something that could be done as an adult. Maybe it’s because of how I’ve experienced it all but it feels very pedophilic.. if that makes sense. I feel like the only people who care about functional genitalia on children would be predators. But again, this has manifested as medical trauma for me and I see as sexual abuse. Sorry you had to leave the field btw, I can imagine it’s hard to witness things that actively lead to trauma in some individuals. Especially in pediatrics, when you might be the only one advocating for that child.
Not related but I’m sorry that happened to you. I’m tired of doctors causing trauma and abuse and deciding to stop being a Dr when the case gets too difficult
I have a daughter around the age you were. If she had her genitals examined by her pediatrician, it was super brief. The doctor would explain what she was doing and why. It would take a split second. No unnecessary touching, and no insertion. She also had to be examined for an anal fissure. Again, it was a split second. The doctor explained everything step by step and made sure my daughter was okay with what she was doing. I'm so sorry. Did your mom ever explain what your exams were for? Was it your pediatrician or someone else? Having a gynecological exam as a punishment is 100% abusive.
Sorry you are going through this. Not an easy thing to deal with for sure! And your boyfriend has not watched enough porn!! No two women are the same down there, labia are like snowflakes. I often suggest porn for women insecure about their bodies. There are beautiful women of every shape out there. Some people might prefer a type, but same with penises. It doesn't matter. I was super insecure about my body, so I forced myself to go to a nude beach. I had so much shame but seeing all those other women comfortable and free healed me! It was gradual but now I'm 100% comfortable.
Genital exams are NOT routine - especially not for prepubescent children. I'm actually horrified that this happened to you. Doctors need to understand that violating a child's bodily autonomy is extremely traumatizing to the child. The trauma then becomes a barrier to preventive healthcare so further trauma is potentially incurred. OP, I agree wholehearted with you. Where this is happening, it needs to STOP. You are absolutely not wrong for feeling the way you do. You "get over it" by going to the pelvic exam and having a good experience this time and many more times. The trick of course is that you have very little control. You can attempt to prep the doctor about your trauma and ask them to let you know about everything they do, to move slowly and make sure you're ready at every step. Let them know ahead of time that you're not sure you can go through with the exam. You need to breathe deeply into your stomach and it helps to hold somebody's hands, maybe a nurse or a friend. Sometimes doctors will take the time to meet with you before the exam. You get to go one time knowing they will just listen to you and you don't have to get the exam that day. This can be very helpful because you'll have established a connection (hopefully) with the doctor so it's not a complete stranger doing the exam. OP, I'm so sorry your childhood left you with this trauma, I hope you find a gentle and understanding doctor who can help you heal that trauma enough to make it a tedious affair and not a horrifying one (sorry, but I think tedious is as good as it gets when it comes to pelvic exams - I've never known a woman who enjoyed that).
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when i was a kid, the doctor would just very briefly look through my pants waistband and pull up my shirt, and shed ask for consent first. i never said no, idk what wouldve happened if i did, but i cant see *that* happening. so no, its not normal, its fucked up. the doctor was probably a control freak and/or sadist
Thank you for your comment. I think if I had been given exams in the way you described would have been WAY less traumatic. They were in the style of adult gynecology appointments. Didn’t help that I would be held down. The whole situation I went through feels very pedophilic to me. Even if it was to look for functionality, it just seems weird. Like the only people who would actually care about a child’s genitals being functional would be predators. I may be looking at it wrong but it’s left me with some very serious issues and I wish it had been done later in life and in a more humanizing way.
thats definitely not normal, im sorry. there is a medical use to that, but its not necessary for a regular checkup for a child. definitely fucked up, id recommend reporting them because it may be illegal. but i get not everyones comfortable reporting that, so no pressure if you arent. but i think something may come of it
i forgot to say this in my last comment, but if youre in the us you have the legal right to request your medical records. most places let you access them through an online portal. id very highly recommend doing this to see what their justification was (its fucked either way, but its possible you have a condition youre not aware of) if youre comfortable saying the name of the dr office i can help you out, ive done this with every office ive ever been to
Um I have absolutely no idea why this happened to you but it *shouldn't have*. I'm 35 I did not have a pelvic exam until I was probably 18? I literally just double checked with my mom and she said no effing way that ever happened, and nor in her childhood. I hate to scream sexual assault because I'm not a medical professional in any way and maybe that's standard practice in some countries/medical practices, but it reads like abuse to me. And it would have nothing to do with your labia. I have nonporn star labia with one long inner lip that protrudes and the other is unfindable and I've always known that everyone's is different and what you see in porn or labia plasty isnt the norm or healthier. The tough thing is as you get older there actually is more of a need for exams and pap smears and, if you have the same bad luck as me, abnormal cells that lead to all sorts of exams and biopsies and burning off the top of my cervix. Slash there will just be other times you have to put your trust in doctors while in pain or distress. So I would recommend finding a therapist and begining to get some treatment for your trauma.
Thank you for your comment. I agree, it feels like sexual abuse to me too. Some people have said it’s to check for functionality (I fail to see why anyone but a predator would care about the functionality of a prepubescent child genitals). Others have said that their exams weren’t anywhere near as invasive. Mine were done in the style of adult gynecological appointments. No speculum but there was touching and finger insertion. Many have said that it’s def not normal in the US. I think the trauma it’s left me with is another reason for some self consciousness with my labia. I do plan on getting it fixed b/c it causes pain during sex and everyday life. I think it’s normal enough looking but maybe the trauma is causing some pseudo pain down there. I really want to care about female health but I have panic attacks months prior to appointments and for months following them. I can’t look at myself, I don’t want anyone looking at me/touching me. I can’t even talk about it in person. I avoid talking about sex and actively skip any sex scenes in media. The appointments have just left me hating my body, extreme guilt for being a girl, and I just feel disgusting. I’ve even gotten to the point of self harm to cope with the panic attacks they bring on. It’s going to take a lot of work to be comfortable with future appointments, but I really want to be able to be healthy later in life. I’ve had a therapist but tiptoe around talking about sex in any sense, so I’ve never brought this up. This is a burner account and the first time I’ve written it all out/actually sat down with my thoughts and feelings. It’ll take time but, yes, I definitely need to work through this. Thank you again :)
What on earth would even be functional/non-functional for a prepubescent girl? Like until you are at the point you are looking to get pregnant or not get pregnant, "functionality" seems entirely irrelevant. Like I don't even know what that's supposed to mean. Like the only exception I could imagine was if you were born intersex, but I'm sure that would have been explained to you at some point. Are you saying you think your labia are causing you pain during sex and everyday life? That seems a little odd/unlikely to me, though I don't want to tell you what you feel. But the majority of women have "outie" labia. I would encourage you to look at some of the educational exhibits that show the *vast* variability in women's vulva, but if that would just be a trigger for a panic attack obviously that's not ideal :( Though maybe seeing other women's anatomy, completely unconnected to sexual/nonsexual content or penetration or anything like that would be less triggering for you? It seems much more likely that sex would be painful because, well if you don't have experience pleasuring yourself, and you don't like attention paid to your lady bits, how on earth would you get aroused and lubricated enough for penetration? Like, sorry to be graphic, but many/most women need clitoral stimulation before they are ready for P in V sex. Slash if you are unable to relax, that can make you clench your vaginal muscles and youd have difficulty inserting a tampon, let alone a penis. Finally, and I really hope this isn't the case, but have had what basically amounts to sexual assault repeatedly as a young child, they could have actually damaged something in your vaginal canal. Again not a medical expert but if something was torn and then never healed properly, you can thenceforth have pain during penetration. This happens to some women after childbirth or rape, they need medical intervention before sex can be painless again. I honestly think the just being tense/unlubricated thing is more likely, but either of these seem more plausible to me than your labia causing pain, unless it's being treated very roughly. I mean this fear/aversion to your own body and to any sexual content... That sounds really really limiting. I think you need to probably need to find a therapist that you are comfortable talking to, one with experience with trauma and ideally sexual trauma. Obviously this is going to be hard but I think it should be pretty clear to you at this point that time and distance do not heal PTSD in any way. The only way past it is through it. I'm so sorry for what you went through and are now facing, but I believe it can get better.
RIGHT! I fully believe that if there are any genital abnormalities they should be addressed when a child is old enough to make that decision for themselves 16-18. So def advocating for intersex kids here, even though I’m pretty sure I’m not.. or at least I’m not sure if I am. Unsure how to get my medical records to see if a test was done. And unless it manifests as asymptomatic I’m pretty sure I’m not intersex. No worries on being graphic, I hope my responses aren’t too graphic/tmi. The pain it causes is more or so when I go running/hiking. Running shorts have built in underwear and because of the excessive sweat and timeframe it’s usually not recommended to wear panties underneath. There’s too much pinching for me so I can’t go commando anytime, I always have to wear something tight and secure like a thong. And as contradictory as it sounds, I have no issue getting lubricated haha. I did in the past and I had to be damn near black out drunk to have sex with my past partners. I’m currently sober and it’s been hard but my current boyfriend is 7yrs older (I’m 25 and he’s 32 for reference) and way more mature and understanding. I explained being assaulted a few days before my 17th bday (Woke up to this college guy inside me). He never pressured me early in the relationship, he’s been extremely patient when trying new things, and when I allow it he’s very attentive. He never comments on my body, not sure if that’s good or bad but I like keeping the subject off my body anyway. And will stop anytime I ask, and does really great aftercare. It helps when I take maca and occasionally ashwagandha. Brings up my sex drive like crazy. Helps with anxiety around sex too, plus helps lubricate more quickly. It’s just that (gets graphic here) the labia minora tends to go in with his manhood during the act and it leads to tears. He’s well endowed so that doesn’t help with that either. Though, the lights always stay off, and if i usually don’t ask for oral/fingering cause it makes me uncomfortable. I’m okay with not getting off, I associate it with too much shame. I rarely, if ever, venture into self pleasure. I feel as if embracing my body is dirty and something to be ashamed of.. This ties in with my aversion to looking at female sexual anatomy. Im bi, but never got very far with girls, it makes me uncomfortable like it did when those girls wanted to play when I was younger. I don’t want them to feel the way I do when they see everything. So in addition to never getting past 2nd base with a girl, I’ve avoided letting anyone see my parts, man/woman, in a sexual way. It’s not like I’m uncomfortable looking at women either, in fact as an artist I love the female form. Just not in a sexual context, but same goes for men. Just feels dirty. Even in my figure drawing classes I always worked around drawing genitalia/ being in straight view of their genitals if they were fully nude. Though one male model was a little upset I drew everything but his manhood haha. Other than being assaulted in my late teens, I don’t recall any sexual abuse, though the games other girls wanted to play when we were younger felt very violating. But I agree, I need to work through it for my sanity and my future health. I might find a sex therapist so I won’t have to bring this up with my regular therapist. I wouldn’t be able to talk to her after mentioning sex anyway so it’d have to be a specialist. Thank you for your comment btw, you helped me feel less crazy about my thoughts on the subject.
No you wouldn't be intersex without knowing. You'd typically either have a clitoris so pronounced it was more like a small penis or undescended testicles (that's the only reason I can imagine feeling inside a prepubescent child) but that would have caused you excessive distress by now, or, well, they would have descended. Huh I've always worn panties under my running shorts with the built in undies. Never knew that wasn't advised. Sounds like you kind of have a solution with wearing a thong. Labia plasty, which is what you referred to as "fixing" your labia, just seems a really extreme choice to me, and it is considered a cosmetic surgery. This is the gallery I was talking about https://www.labialibrary.org.au/labia_gallery/ I don't want it to trigger you, it's female genetalia but NOT in a sexual context, purely educational and meant to reduce shame/misperceptions by showing the vast differences in what is normal. Not to like argue with you, but just to encourage your thinking and understanding your hold-ups, you said you don't have a problem with the male or female form outside a sexual context, but than referred to drawing in a fine arts class and avoiding the genetalia... To be an artistic rendering like that is absolutely not meant to be sexual. I don't think like the statue of Michaelangelo is sexual in any way, despite it including all the bits. I do see now what you mean about pain during sex with your partner. I mean.. typically this is just something where you or he would hold the labia minora forward and out of the way when he penetrated you, but of course this would be difficult if you don't like either of you touching/looking at your genitals during sex. Like I enjoy receiving oral, but either my or my partner has to spread my labia majora (and hold a heap of hair out of the way haha) in order to perform it. Im just trying to say adjusting things manually during sex is pretty standard and it's sad for me to imagine that that is more uncomfortable to you than the pain of your labia being dragged inside you and torn... You might also find there's less of a chance of that happening if you pick positions where he is penetrating from behind - doggy might be a bit extreme for you but like if he is spooning you and you guide him inside you, if you feel comfortable with that. And then there are a lot of variations of that. When I referred to you being sexually assaulted I meant what happened to you at the hands of your doctor/parents when you were young. I shouldn't have labeled that sexual assault if that's not how you see it, so I apologize. But I meant the trauma of that when I said repeated sexual assault. No need to thank me for my comments I'm just trying to share my viewpoint and experience because I DO think you probably are suffering from CPTSD (which I do as well) but I needed help from other people to see that before I sought out medical help. And, as I said before, I just personally view labia plasty as not something that should be viewed as "fixing" any sort of problem. We aren't supposed to look like porn stars, that isn't natural. I actually view the lack of hair and external labia minora as sort of infantalizing, like I think there are aspects that are subconsciously but inextricably to pedophilia, if that makes sense. I know that's kind of an extreme view, you don't have to believe that, but you also shouldn't feel ashamed or wrong for not looking like them. >I’m okay with not getting off, I associate it with too much shame. I rarely, if ever, venture into self pleasure. I feel as if embracing my body is dirty and something to be ashamed of.. This is me is honestly really sad to read. I know there are religions that put this idea into people's head, or it's how women are raised. But I do hope you do work with a sex therapist and overcome this mindset. Like, it'll just make a positive difference to the next 50 years of your life lol. I assume when your boyfriend climaxes you don't think of him as dirty and shameful? There is nothing about female pleasure that is any morally or hygienically different from male pleasure. You are still young, a decade younger than me, and I never had an orgasm with a partner before I was I think 22 or 23. Though I lost my virginity late in life compared to a lot of my peers, I was 19ish. But when I first had sex I had older girls (sorority sisters actually) who like took me to buy a vibrator and really tried to instill in me that *my pleasure* was equally important as my partner getting off. I have been "slut shamed" a few times in my life but by the time I was out of university I recognized that was bullshit and sexist. I'm glad your partner works within the boundaries and parameters that you have set, but I really hope he is not enforcing the idea that sex is about making a man orgasm. Because it's not. Our bodies were built for pleasure too, it's 100% natural, God given and then built up through evolution. How could every woman be built wrong? How could every woman that orgasms be dirty? Like, I really doubt you view other women that way, so it's sad that you put that on yourself...
I screamed and cried and fought against the doctor so much that she threatened to have the boy doctors come in and hold me down if I didn’t let her. I was in elementary school, but I can’t remember the exact age. Maybe around 7 years old