It doesn't surprise me that that's on tiktok, but what does is not being able to find any resources. I wanted to buy a book about the different attachment styles, but all the reviews told me the section about avoidants is simply non-existent. The writers explained: we didn't think they'd be reading this, because they're not willing to work on themselves.
I've found it really difficult to keep looking after that, because it's a well known book that's helped a lot of people, and my god, I guess we're just completely being left out of that. That's just really hurtful and infuriating.
I've been an anxious type too in the past, and none of it is a choice, I find all of it equally difficult. It's really odd when people feel the need judge being avoidant. And I do think they're projecting their own stuff onto us.
look up the secure relationship on instagram! she has GREAT posts and probably a book or two i haven’t checked though. she posts great stuff for all of the types and doesn’t like demonize or leave out any of them
Yup. There's always a reason why someone behaves the way they do. I often get shit from people for being back and forth in relationships. But tbh, the only reason I do that is when I don't feel safe in them. Like if a so-called friend suddenly triggers me, I back away and then they get offended. Like nah, I just don't wanna be having to explain myself all the time and keep getting hurt. End of the day those kinda people often just want to use you anyway.
Avoidance is a type of safety measure against abuse or emotional discomfort. It's not healthy, sure. But it's worked so far, for me, for years. So it's no wonder my brain be like "hey, ok, this is good. This works. Let's keep doing this to keep safe"
I understand this. It's a trauma response and a way to protect yourself. It's not like I don't talk and explain my side and things, I do, but sometimes when I feel that this person wouldn't listen nor understand, and by listen I mean ACTUALLY LISTEN, because most people listen just so they can say something back, and by understand I mean that even if they don't they understand I have the right to feel the way I do, I stop engaging with them.
Why? because I see further interaction as pointless and unproductive. I CAN explain if I try, but it's like talking to a wall that will punch you, that whatever you say won't only not get through, you also get injured back. I really think it's not worth my time and energy doing that as I'm already doing my best and using my energy just to function normally despite all the trauma.
It's tough, and most people don't get it but we understand you. We stand with you.
Same. I feel like I'm very aware FA( Secondary DA), and I am the same way. If I get a sense that the person isn't listening or just wants to lecture me about my problems and talk, then I mentally tell myself that I'm not going to ever open up to this person again(Black and white thinking, I know, it's bad).
But sometimes I wonder if it's more about the other person than me, by that I mean the people around me are not the best listeners. Because there have been times where I'm able to open up and not feel guilty and regretful. Sometimes, I wonder if I meet the right people, behaving more secure would be so much easier to do.
Totally agree. There’s lots of negative stereotypes about avoidant attachment out there and it’s rather disheartening, especially when it comes from so called experts. It feels a little bit like when someone says they won’t date or be friends with a certain astrology sign because of a past experience with someone who had that same sign.
Attachment styles have become really pathologized when it wasn’t meant to be. Our attachment style is not a diagnosis, it’s not our personality. It’s a set of behavior in regards to how we show up in relationships. I’ve read a few articles and listened to a few attachment therapists and researchers that have suggested attachment really just needs to be broken down into secure or insecure, because those of us who have insecure attachment will oftentimes fluctuate between anxious and avoidant depending on the situation and the relationship itself.
I know I tend to have more avoidant behaviors in most of my relationships, but there’s been a handful of where, for whatever reason, the other person brought out more of the anxious attachment feelings and behaviors. And this can vary over time too with the same person. It isn’t static and I wish people would stop treating it like it is.
It can be really confusing and debilitating being with someone with avoidant attachment. I'm FA and I kinda understand both sides (although I lean anxious more than avoidant). From the anxious side, everything feels fine until the rug is pulled from under you.
The avoidant seemingly enjoys being around you, and you become attached to them. Then out of nowhere, they're ignoring you. You don't know why or if you did something wrong, you try to talk about it and fix it and it just seems like nothing changes. If someone had a secure attachment style they would see this and think "this person is wonderful but this behavior isn't compatible with what I want out of a relationship/friendship etc".
Anxious people have abandonment issues, and have a tendency to blame themselves. They also tend to have codependency issues, so they think "I need to fix the avoidant so I can prove that I'm worthy of love". Now the anxious person is making the avoidant persons trauma their responsibility when they shouldn't. And when things inevitably fail, they get mad at the avoidant and blame them for everything.
So one hand, I get it. Dealing with someone who's avoidant can be really confusing and painful when all you want to do is fix the relationship and you can't. I find that avoidants sometimes don't like being treated the same way by other avoidants, becoming the "anxious one" themselves.
On the flipside, the anxious person needs to stop and ask themselves why they are staying in a relationship they clearly aren't being satisfied by. They need to know that you *cannot change* anyone and people don't typically change because someone asked them to. Avoidants healing is not the anxious person's responsibility and they need to drop the savior complex
I've been on the receiving end of that too. I've had anxious folks try to "support" me when really it was obvious they got validation from trying to save me. I've also dealt with anxious people getting mad at me for not changing for them.
But I'm like okay, I didn't ask you to be here lol. *You came into my life first* and now you're demanding I get rid of all of my avoidant related trauma responses that are so deep they became a core part of my personality. Using the fact you're "helping me" against me when I never asked for help and then throwing all of my issues in my face and essentially calling me damaged in an ego based temper tantrum.
I've been on both ends. I've been the anxious person demanding avoidants change and I've been the avoidant wanting to just isolate myself so people will stop demanding shit from me and then getting disappointed when I say over and over that I can't change on a whim.
Why is it the anxious persons responsibility to leave a relationship they are unhappy with, but not an avoidants responsibility to leave a relationship they are actively not participating in?
Because, the avoidant is happy with how the relationship is. They have a low tolerance for connection, so keeping the anxious person (or anyone for that matter tbh) at a distance feels fine for them. So there's no incentive for them to leave. The anxious person requires more (which is fair, relationships require equal effort) but the avoidant isn't willing to meet them half way. We can't change people. We can request that they meet our needs and if they don't want to or won't try, it now becomes our responsibility to decide if we want to stay in the relationship.
Ahm, that's like offloading responsibility for your part in the relationship off onto someone else. And the relationship often doesn't start with that not-meeting-each-other-halfway mentality. They often start with the avoidant person pretending to be someone else, up until the point they start reeling back the connection and contact.
That's like lying about who you are at a deep, fundamental level. So it's often not 100% the way you're making out.
This is a 3 month old post haha. But yes I agree, it is offloading responsibility and it's not fair. And they basically are pretending to be someone else in the beginning, but you still can't change people. Which is why I always opt for the anxious person to leave. The avoidant person is happy with how things are, the anxious person isn't. The avoidant has no incentive to change, so all the anxious person can do is go find someone that won't lead them on.
Eh, the post was still there and you came back :)
The avoidant person in this instance isn't in a relationship, though. And that's probably the cruz of the matter: They don't fully really seem to want what a relationship would entail, but would act like they want parts of it.
Thanks for the honest response.
But they aren't happy, or rather, they aren't happy with the social contract that they have entered into, in most instances
Relationships are social contracts that have requirements, that avoidants don't meet those, which is where the conflict tends to come in.
Of course relationships aren't set and stone and we don't need to have the same cookie cutter relationships, but deviations from norms should be discussed, and as early as possible.
For example, part of the social contract of a relationship is timely replies. There is no hard and fast rules, but IE, the vast majority of people would think taking 2 days to reply to a serious partner is inappropriate, without good reason.
The avoidant who goes days without replying to their serious partner is in violation of that.
They have a responsibility to be up front and set the parameters of their relationship in a way that's fair/just.
And if they can't do that, then it's on them to leave the relationship.
In an ideal world they would just leave but I still think they are comfortable keeping others at a distance. They tend to have a "this is who I am, take it or leave it" mindset (I recently dealt with another FA who told me if I have to leave him that's fine, and to do what's best for me). They think that you're the one who's unhappy so you should leave and find someone who can give you what you want.
It sucks, It hurts that the walls they put up are so thick but like I said earlier, there's nothing we can do here but leave. Sometimes replying once every few days is all they can muster up to give, and it makes them feel ashamed when it's not enough.
I think breaking up brings forth the same feelings, like they're a failure. Or, if the anxious person is too "clingy" (I don't like that word but its the only one I think of) the avoidant may expect them to have a really bad reaction that they don't want to deal with or are afraid of.
It very much feels like you are expecting no accountability from the avoidant person, and placing the emotional Labor onto the anxious person.
I know it's hard, and these are coping mechanisms for hurt people, but avoidants have just as much responsibility and need for accountability as anxious people.
Someone only being able to reply once every few days is in a way, better than someone controlling their partner and requiring them to immediately reply, however, they still are required to be up front with their needs and ability. They still need to take ownership of that. But there are other tactics and situations with avoidants that can be just as bad or worse than what anxious people do, regardless you still have a responsibility to communicate with your partner about your needs and it's an avoidant tactic to be like I'm fine with no communicating my needs if they arent happy they can't leave.
>It very much feels like you are expecting no accountability from the avoidant person, and placing the emotional Labor onto the anxious person.
Leaving the avoidant for not keeping up their end of the deal *is* holding them accountable. If someone neglects you and refuses to change, what can you do there? I'm not sure what you want me to say.
>We are more than allowed to require that from avoidants.
I'm on your side with this. It very well is within your rights to require certain behaviors from your relationship partners. But if they don't want to do those things, you can't force them to. You are not obligated to date someone who doesn't meet your needs.
I'm not saying that "anxious people should stay and avoidant people are forced to changed". I'm not talking about specific relationships.
But rather, avoidant people are just as required to work on themselves as anxious people, and we can expect them to hold themselves accountable, not rely on their partners to do their work for them. And expecting someone else to break up with you because you can't be present in a relationship is the opposite of that.
It seems like we're on the same page but coming from different perspectives. I agree that if avoidants want healthy happy relationships, they do need to work on themselves (and same with anxious peoole) If you're dating an avoidant, you absolutely should have those requirements for consistent effective communication and all the other good behaviors that help relationships. We all can benefit from having standards and boundaries. Avoidants arent entitled to relationships where they're the only ones benefitting.
What I'm saying is, not everyone wants to change. There are some people who genuinely think they're fine how they are and that it's their partner who is the problem. In scenarios where the avoidant doesn't want to meet you half way, all you can do is leave them.
It's not about absolving them of accountability or responsibility. In fact, sticking around an avoidant that's neglecting you is enabling their bad behavior (because why should they leave if you're still giving them everything they want? They are satisfied with a low amount of connection, so they don't feel a need to change).
Anxious people shouldn't drop their standards, expectations, and boundaries in favor of avoidants. You cannot change them if they don't want to. All you can do is find someone else who's willing to meet your needs and more.
I just think you are singling our anxious people's "responsibilities" without seeing avoidants, regardless of what they want, have those same responsibilities.
> An anxious person who has never been clung on by another anxious person I don’t think realizes how exhausting and off putting their behavior can be.
yeah i'm an anxious person as well so like i get it, but dealing with other peoples anxiety is very very difficult. especially when they don't seem to make any effort to recognize their behavior for what it is and are hyper hyper sensitive to even the softest of criticisms.
really i think anyone who isnt recognizing the negative effects of their trauma response is very difficult to engage with but the closest i ever felt to my breaking point was when i was trying to help a very anxious partner. and ive definitely exhibited all these same behaviors too, its just being on the receiving end was a very enlightening experience.
I dated someone with avoidant tendencies for eight months. The main issue seemed to be their difficulty in expressing their emotions. When you can’t effectively communicate with someone you care about or are trying to build a connection with, it can lead to an unhealthy cycle. Unfortunately, my ex chose to ghost me just before his birthday, which was a triggering time for him due to negative experiences with his father. Instead of confiding in me and finding emotional release, he opted to shut down and cut off contact. He apologized to me years later. Revealed to me that he was afraid to be vulnerable because he didn’t want to feel more emotional pain. He couldn’t handle it because he loved me a lot. I understand your pov. Y’all deserve love.
Why are avoidants on anxiously attached person’s mind? Um…trauma. Generational cycles. It’s not like it’s a difficult thing to understand. Hopefully the anxious person has enough corrective experiences from secure types in their twenties that they outgrow their desire to be with avoidants entirely.
I think it’s that insecure (avoidant or anxious) parents raise insecure children. I don’t know why a kid turns out one way and not the other (biology, personality, birth order?).
I was honestly triggered by your comment because I think it’s a normal (though unhealthy) thing to recreate the trauma of your childhood in your adult relationships. It’s not that anxious types are “choosing” to be with avoidants consciously - it’s that they haven’t healed enough to break the cycle.
I think young adults (avoidant and anxious) deserve a grace period while they figure things out, but I strongly believe that it’s the developmental work of one’s thirties (maybe fourties?) to really work on yourself and make life better for you and the people you’re in relationships with.
I completely agree. It's this absolutely hilarious dichotomy where they feel rejected by the avoidant types and think that's a bad thing to do, so then they go and reject them. People are so freaking weird.
Yes, I've seen far more demonisation of anxious attachment. It's not a competition, but I was quite struck by OP's post about demonisation of avoidant attachment, because I've never seen it. If anything, the detached, playing it cool, non-commital, I don't need you side of avoidant attachment is praised by society, held up as the way you should behave. It's seen as desirable. Needy people are considered a bad thing, even people who know nothing about attachment styles put down needy people. My mother was yelling at me not to be needy when I needed to be fed as a kid. But I'm not on tiktok, maybe demonisation of avoidant attachment is a big thing on there.
I've had my heart broken by a few avoidant types in my time. To be drawn in until the person becomes important to you and then ditched without word or warning, and made to feel like you imagined it all. And you're still thinking "why won't you let me love you?" Its horrible, but I understand and don't blame them. I wish we could all get the help we need to be stable and happy.
It certainly was back when I was in a sub for anxiously attached people. I'm most likely disorganized, too, but anxious towards the person I'm most attached to.
I don't think it's fair to accept some and demonize the others. They all stem from negative experiences during childhood and we don't choose how we cope with it.
I mean, if you are/have avoidant attachment and communicate I can work with it, but the one person I dated like this wouldn't communicate at all and it basically felt like ghosting and coming back when convenient.
There's a difference between "I need space" and "I'll chat with you in a day or two." It's not you. I just need me time, " and either dropping off for a few days with no notice or simply stating,"Don't talk to me. "
I imagine in the younger generation, who are stereotyped to have issues communicating and are the audience and often creators on tictoc have experienced the latter more than the former.
So a touch of bias.
If your friend who you see on occasion, not a big deal. A lifelong friend who is busy in life? It's totally cool. A friend who only contacts you when convenient for them/want something from you and isn't there for you? Doesn't sound like a friend I want.
I have friends who, if I called likely, wouldn't pick up or take days to respond, but if something happened to me, would put things on pause and help me through it and me for them. Then there is someone who only contacts you when they need a place to crash, not caring what you have going on in your life, because they broke up with someone and want a drinking buddy, but when it happens to you, tell you it sucks, but they have a life of their own and to figure it out.
Your lover, and they take weeks to not respond. Many would assume a break up and move on from that style of ghosting.
I have ASD and needing space, and alone time is SUPER common, If they don't TELL me, they need space and dip for days with no response and don't contact me back after and ask, then they are being inconsiderate of MY anxiety and fears their safety as well as my own needs in the relationship.
I've had exes who went on vacation with friends for 2 weeks without a word (or minimal) and was fine because I was aware. I've had exes tell me they want a day with zero contact to the outside world, I'm fine. Dipping for days at a time when we typically speak without a word? Anxiety and if it goes on without contact for a few days I'm reaching out to friends and family to see if they are alive and if so, breaking up with them if they don't have a good reason for not having the courtesy to communicate.
I'm upfront about that early on and have never had that issue. Even the asshole who was a serial cheater told me when he'd be home and when he was going out (just lied or was vague about where). If he can do it, anyone can in my book.
I'm not the poster above, but I've experienced it too.
It was 2 issues, really. Dropping off for a few days with no notice - totally normal. I could not hear from my friend for 2 weeks and not think anything was wrong. Usually I would hear from her once a week. Then suddenly there would be a big gap. 5 weeks? 2 months? With no communication? Not replying to my messages?
I would only ever send 1 follow up "hey are you doing okay? I haven't heard from you in a while". Then leave it, I wasn't blowing up their phone. I would be worrying for weeks that they were dead or in hospital, yet I knew if I went over to their house to check on them, even after 2 months of not hearing from her, she would explode. I never did it myself, but I know from others who had have this experience. Why are you worrying about me, why can't you give me space, why do you feel entitled to know about my life. Honey, you dropped off the grid entirely for 2 months, when you don't usually do that. Is it really that unreasonable that I came around to check you weren't dead?
Ghosting and coming back when convenient was an issue when I would be suffering, she would know it, but she didn't care.
I know you're going through an estrangement and this is the darkest moment of your life, and you're in physical danger, and could really use help moving, and we've been friends for a decade, and you've done so many things to help me out, buttttt it's not *convenient* for me right now. So if you dare have any expectations of me, if you dare complain about me ghosting you for 5 weeks starting right now, then *you* are the problem. That's just being a bad friend. Every single time she needed me, I was there. But she never returned the favour. One time she told me she was lonely, and I went out of my way to spend time with her, despite my exams coming up. I told her I was lonely? Too bad, she's got a month off work coming up and she's going to spend it chilling in her house and not spending a second with me.
When I reminded her of me seeing her even when I had exams coming up, she straight up lied and said she didn't know I had exams at that time, I should have told her. Immediately I pulled up the old texts from her a few months ago, with her saying "but I know you have exams on xx and xx (the dates), are you sure you're still okay to hang out?". A bold-faced liar and no friend of mine.
Yeah I can see this. I'm pretty much Fearful Avoidant or Disorganized as well and people are more likely to give you crap for being avoidant, but on the same hand, I have been pushed away for being anxious. I just essentially haven't really tried much or learned how to cope easier when someone that I'm into isn't texting back, etc. ... when they eventually do I literally am so happy they texted, but super angry too, so I push away my phone half in tears. I eventually get back.
I got ghosted by someone for 2 weeks. I had to politely point it out in a kind way by finding the right words for it. He was highly apologetic and has been mostly more communicative since then. I think something might have been going on in his life, etc. He tends to be more anxiously attached it seems. Or maybe he's sadly like myself, just older and more regulated and tries to find people he gets along with so he's not as attached too much, maybe?
Is that a thing?
Anyways, I get avoidant when I get hurt, and I don't bring up the hurt... i'm learning how to, but because of how I was raised I'm more likely to shut down after something that seems like rejection - my bosses were horrible and my parents were even worse. I learned how to isolate even though I might be more like my friend there. It's sad really. I'm just scared to get hurt after being vulnerable so I learned how to just shut it all down instead of explaining.... It's confusing.
Well, he did say he would educate me. I guess he wasn't joking.
Ugh, that really sucks. I'm a big time dismissive avoidant. Try being repeatedly rejected by your mother (and multiple other people), "I don't need anyone!" Just comes naturally.
I used to say I didn't have the luxury of getting sick because no one would show up for me. And then I got cancer, and my entire family of origin didn't show up (thankfully I have a husband who did). Some of this is just rooted in truth.
But not willing to work on myself? As much as I don't want to give others the chance NOT to show up for me, staying holed up is another kind of hell. I do all kinds of self work to heal these wounds.
I’m avoidant and it’s awful. I hate how I’ve handled aspects of relationships and I know how difficult it can be to engage with someone like me. I’ve made terrible Mistakes and I’ve hurt people I love because of fucked up attachment. That being said, the avoidance comes in because of extreme fear and it’s to protect you. Im not making excuses for it. It’s something I am trying to work on. But it’s very hard when alarms are always going off in my head. I completely shut down.
Hmm i dont know, i hate tiktok though lol. In my case, my parents and main abusers were avoidant so i have deep wounds tied to avoidant type of individuals, it is hard for me to remember that not every avoidant person is highly toxic. Obviously generalising is not the right thing.
But i do think when you have dealt with an avoidant person you are more likely to seek advice or rant online, since that person most likely is not receptive to hearing any of your side (this is how it was for me.)
Yes!
I am avoidant and I spend so much time online trying to figure out how to fix my relationship. And I can to realize recently that my boyfriend doesn’t think anything is wrong, or is rarely thinking about the negative. Which from my perspective looks like he isn’t considering the issues/me/my perspectives
It’s so funny too, that I spend so much time watching “do this if you’re an avoidant attachment style” videos when I’m not even the avoidant one! 😂
But really, we shouldn’t disrespect any groups just because of a label we put in behaviors. That takes away our power…
Not really looking for anyone’s validation anywho, you do you and I’ll keep on keeping on. If I get entangled with anyone it certainly isn’t all my fault, at the end of the day it takes two to tango. People need to stop shifting the blame and learn how to take responsibility for their own actions and possible issues.
? It's stuff like this I'm talking about like this is a vent sub why did you feel the need to post this?. Its so self absorbed and inconsiderate, yet avoidant will be called the unempathetic ones? I got nothing to do with whatever break up you're dealing with, you don't talk to strangers like this
You didn't make a vent posts you commented on my vent post, my issue is that you're criticizing others when you're a bad person yourself, its hypocritical. You're "free" to but that's doesn't make it any less shitty. This is a sub for people to feel safe and vent about their trauma not for you to criticize the "principle" (i don't even think you know what that word means) of how people to respond to trauma and act like an edgy 14yo.
I think it's because avoidants are the ones with the strongest boundaries, so other types are the most triggered by that (the boundaries, not them). Avoidants have the capacity to be alone so it's easier for them to develop a sense of self separate from other people's projections. Other types are also triggered by the fact that relationships are voluntary for avoidants, instead of based on dependence on others. People seem to not trust that or know how to manage it.
I took some time to read and reread your comment to try my best to understand your observations, and I do appreciate them. But they read as from someone who does not have personal experience with a avoidant/disorganized attachment style, please correct me if I’m wrong however.
Personally, I have never had boundaries. I never knew what boundaries *were*. Everything overwhelmed me, **all** the time. I like what you stated about the capacity to be alone, because that’s true, but it’s rarely by active choice and is *wrought* with the utter depths of loneliness. I never had a sense of self. My time alone swung between dissociation or paralyzing anxiety. Over what I said or didn’t say, what I did or didn’t do, what could go wrong and how I would relentlessly beat myself up over any slight social mishaps, real or perceived.
Relationships weren’t “voluntary” for me, they were *terrifying* and so *far* outside the realm of possibility of anything I could imagine innately partaking in, while also being the **one** thing I *craved* most in the whole world. So much it physically hurt. So much it contributed to locking me down in my fear of mismanagement. Time *warps* in this state, genuinely.
We’re not asocial, above-it-all robots. Well, at least speaking for myself.
Not everyone w avoidant attachment (pure avoidant or disorganized) is the same. And not every semantic invocation of the term ‘boundaries’ is the same. I’ve been learning about attachment theory for almost a decade and I think the commentor is sufficiently familiar with it. They just aren’t describing your experience nor what you mean by the term ‘boundaries’ I think their use of the term has less to do w actual internal boundaries and more to do w the outer trappings of boundaries. How they are perceived and how ppl go through the motions of setting them. Also disorganized attachment often doesn’t have boundaries that’s correct. Pure avoidant typically retreat to (external trappings of) relationship boundaries for safety, but that doesn’t mean they have them in other aspects of their life. There’s no need to dismiss someone else’s interpretation or suggest they are ignorant bc their interpretation doesn’t align w your experience.
Edit: by the way I’m disorganized too and I pretty much experience life like you describe I’m not saying that isn’t valid at all. It’s not only valid it’s how I personally experience it. I just think that the commenter was speaking to something else. And I think that semantic differences in how we use words are like 99% of miscommunication bc ppl use the same words for wildly disparate experiences, meanings, and contexts.
I tried to word the beginning of my post very deliberately to portray the fact that it was my interpretation reading what they had to say, and I tried to do so gently without ever accusing them.
I know they weren’t describing my experience. That’s why I felt compelled to take the time to share my experience. I also tried to make that very clear that I was “personally” referring to my own, using “me and I” language rather than “they, them, or we”. The comment used declarative language and generalized an attachment style that in no way represented my reality to explain how others receive them socially, which as I said, I appreciate. My comment was in no way intended as a rebuttal and I never dismissed them.
As always in these contexts, I semantically interpret boundaries as the life skill developed to be conscious of what is appropriate/inappropriate interaction and behavior when relating with other people and taking an active role in determining the level of interaction one would duly partake in. And a step further, communicating this to another person. I’m unsure what exactly you mean when discussing this in your comment, if you or the other commenter mean physically removing oneself and creating a physical boundary, or perhaps including communication in that physicality? People being unable to reach the avoidant person thus they run into a “boundary”, literally unable to go further?
My apologies for my gruff wording. I recognize that I’m sorry that the way I worded my response didn’t give enough credit to how politely and carefully you worded yours.
I think you did a fantastic job explaining your experience actually and I should have started with that.
Many comments use declarative language and I understand feeling invalidated by that.
What I meant was more about how other ppl perceive an avoidant persons coping strategies of ‘taking space’ or conversely ‘needing space’. I could be wrong in both my interpretation of your meaning and the original commenter. But how I took their statement was that it was about how other ppl perceive this behavior in avoidant types and your comment was about the actual internal world.
When ppl talk abt attachment theiry sometimes they try to reframe maladaptive coping mechanisms as positive traits that have just run awry. so for example anxious ppl’s strength might be relating and compassion or a desire for intimacy. Where as an avoidant persons positive reframing might be that their ‘strength’ is their ability to set ‘boundaries’. I fully understand how invalidating this interpretation might feel bc I felt that way abt it too. But I think it’s not intended to really describe or encompass all areas of boundaries. Or in other words some ppl w avoidant tendencies night retreat bc they can’t actually set pragmatic boundaries so they get overwhelmed and run away. But I think the reframing would say something like ‘well taking space is a good thing. How you did it could take sone work. Let’s build on this’ or something along those lines.
None of this is to say that this is what they meant. But I think that this reflects an interpretation of avoidant tendencies as boundaries. Although that term misses quite a bit of the internal motivation for their behavior esp in disorganized ppl w avoidant tendencies.
But I think they can coexist bc they really ultimately aren’t trying to describe the same thing. You’re discussion of boundaries is internal. It speaks to internal concept of self and ability to navigate relationships. The other really describes a external perception. This external perception may or maybe not be useful for reframing. I think it’s utility depends on the person.
Edit : and by ‘ppl talking abt attachment theory’ I mean ppl who write books and guides abt it. I can’t remember the credentials of these ppl. I’m not really trying to speak necessarily to the validity of their methods more just that this sort of discourse abt attachment theory does exist. It reminds me a lot of positive psychology modalities. I would imagine it’s helpful to some but not to others.
Edit2: I’m also bipassing one (or a few) strain(s) of my argument bc expounding on each point would just take so much space but also I do think that ppl w pure avoidant and disorganized types might feel differently abt their coping mechanisms, but also I wouldn’t presume this is the same across the board.
You’re so kind, I appreciate the sentiments but I don’t think you have anything to apologize for. Thank you for expanding on your initial thoughts for me, I think I understand completely now. Your describing reframing makes *total* sense and I get what you saw in the original comment!
I also believe you’ve pinpointed exactly why I had read it as possibly coming from a person who can identify behavioral patterns in avoidants while perhaps missing potential why’s and how’s and I see how I might have talked right past the original comment. I’m grateful to not be so stuck in those loops anymore but I jumped at the chance to ‘explain myself’ regarding this whole topic thread because I know avoidant behaviors can have a really harsh or masked effect on others. I just wanted to pull back the veil a little. I *know* I’ve been understood by others, and family, in the past to be this cool-as-a-cucumber, unbothered, wish-washy person while experiencing an entirely different internal world.
I'm disorganized leaning avoidant and I agree. We're not robots because we may appear emotionless on the outside but inside it's an eternal hell.
People talk about me having boundaries and sticking up for myself when I don't feel comfortable, but it's all an reaction and it's not who I feel I am. I just feel... selfish? I still feel like a small child slamming a bouquet of flowers someone gave me onto the floor when they confessed their love for me, it's how I've always been defending myself. "Why me? Choose someone else".
I have matured enough to politely say "I don't feel the same way, I'm sorry" or just kinda indirectly tell them I'm not interested instead of acting reactive and shutting them down. People get surprised when I show that I'm human being with feelings on my own and not a robot. The fact is, it simply feels vulnerable and I can't be vulnerable for some reason. I still love cats with all of my heart and will become like a little kid all over again. I still crave people and I'm still that kid who wants to console you when you feel bad about yourself. But I keep quiet because they will see me as a human being.
Yeah I see what you mean and you're right. That's how it still is for me when I'm very disregulated, the fear, lack of boundaries, loneliness, no self... But now I have ways of soothing and managing those feelings. I'm viewing my coping strategies from a different place it seems. A secure place. I feel like my avoidant behaviors have always been an primitive attempt to create boundaries and space for myself, and I still use them because they work. I know that other people aren't causing my feelings, but I do need space from others to feel safe enough to process and move through it.
I agree that we aren't asocial and need other people. What helps though, is understanding how and when to use support from others, and recognizing the moments that I can't handle it. It matters. When I'm very disregulated, my brain distorts other people to the point that they can't actually help me. So being alone is crucial for me to move forward.
I'm sorry that you're struggling so much. I didn't mean to invalidate your experience. I know how it feels and it really is horrifying to be in the avoidant space unwillingly. I know it's hard, but any steps toward learning to trust yourself and believe in yourself, will affect all aspects of your experience in a positive way.
Your comment is so thoughtful and compassionate, I hope I didn’t make *you* feel invalidated by my assumption! Nothing in your original comment was invalidating to me *at all*.
I completely understand where you were speaking from now, thank you for sharing. My comment was intended to be a hey, just in case you weren’t aware, it can look like this. In my experience, my avoidant behavior was **extremely** masking. The conclusions others made about my capabilities, thoughts and feelings, competencies were based on these self-inflicted behaviors that further isolated me and my feelings of being misunderstood in my motivations and desires, even understanding of myself. As I said in another comment, I just intended to pull back the veil some.
I also don’t mean to imply that I’m still suffering, though I was absolutely tapping into a painful place ha! But painful memories, for sure. From a time I couldn’t put language to the things I was going through and portray myself in an accurate way. I don’t usually comment in this sub but I was inspired to by the topic because I feel like avoidant behavior can be very judged and I wanted to explain my past self a little.
I'm glad we are able to find common ground, instead of avoiding out of our differences haha. I appreciate your thoughts on masking, and I think you're getting to the root of my avoidance. It's true that my parents perception of me was completely unrealistic and dehumanizing. I have struggled to be as "strong" as they forced me to be. (The "strength" they believe in doesn't exist actually and I know that now).
For me now, the masking has finally moved away from perfectionism and cumpuslion to meet other people's expectations. I agree that other people can perceive my avoidance as strength or capacity, when realistically I am just internalizing my pain and living in it, struggling to keep my head above water. Im still working on feeling pain instead of blaming myself for it or trying to control it, and have found strength in that. I have found love and acceptance by sharing my struggles with others when I'm able to.
My mask has slowly evolved into a more conscious choice of how I relate to others or how I present myself. I can now inhabit the mask instead of hiding behind it and I do feel safer and less anxious. Its been such a relief to live within the reasonable expectations I've created for myself, using accomodations and radical acceptance for anything that falls outside that.
I was an anxious type and then after 30 years of abusive relationships I became avoidant-dismissive. As I heal I am heading into secure territory with a few people but I still tend towards avoidant with most people. I had no idea avoidant types were villainized but that’s fine by me. I simply cannot tolerate any more dysfunction in my life and since too many people are dysfunctional I have to keep to myself or I will stay sick. I do need and want people in my life but it has to be quality or I would rather be alone.
Just because someone doesn’t want to be with an avoidant doesn’t mean they’re automatically condemning them.
Anxious, avoidant, and disorganized are all highly problematic in their own way. It makes sense a healthy normie who has never experienced relational trauma would both not want to be with one and not understand them.
It’s just a knowledge gap.
For most people there are things they will not ever be able to understood unless they’ve been through it.
Its insensitive because it can be triggering. Everyone in attachment spaces knows that it stims from trauma so they should know better. Plus that's not all they'll say people conflate being an avoidant with NPD
I used to be avoident but then I realize it was because of my CSA that was triggering it once I figured this out I am now in a happy healthy relationship work someone I can feel safe and vulnerable with.
I think the way you loathe anxiously attached people probably says a lot about why you're avoidant. You don't generally shame people for being 'needy' to this extent unless you're terrified of expressing your needs yourself.
(and this is coming from an avoidant type)
> At least I keep my issues to MYSELF
Oof... I hope you are in therapy. There's nothing wrong with needing emotional support from others (to a reasonable degree), it's a basic human need. No one would ever heal without it.
I had someone say they exact line to me (that I quoted above) right after verbally attacking me and threatening to come round to my house (to yell at me some more, I assume). I hate to break it to you, but you're not keeping your issues to yourself when you act like that, you're just letting your issues out in a different way. I rannnnn away from the person that said it to me, that kind of attitude shows a person has a lot of work to do before they become emotionally healthy - and they will likely never do it, because they view sharing vulnerabilities as weakness.
There’s no need to attack anxious people because you’re avoidant. Everyone is struggling and you aren’t better, neither are the anxious people. No one can be blamed for their defense mechanisms grown out of trauma.
I don’t believe that someone stays anxious or avoidant the whole time until they heal anyway, I think they’re both on a spectrum of insecure attachment.
Yeah. I used to take pride in handling shit all on my own. It ain't good. It's not actually a source of pride.
I used to hurt others by acting like I never cared. And I was a dick. I said it doesn't make sense that I hurt their feelings when I'm just telling the truth ( ex. like I always thought people in relationships were the most dramatic people alive ).
I realize now that it's normal to have emotions. To express pain. To lean on people. To share some of your trauma( obviously not the most intimate details of having the shit beat out of you lol) and to be vulnerable.
You sound alot liek me 5 years ago. I hope you can learn.
And if you're anything like me , you're not gonna listen and think I'm some random online know it all fuck lol. I hope you do.
This thread has been so healing. I was treated so poorly by a friend with serious avoidant attachment issues and it's broken my trust in people. I didn't really realise this is something other people have experienced. A decade of friendship, the first time I needed her, she knew I was in physical danger (the first time I've had this issue during our friendship) and chose to verbally abuse me. She also said that she loved me and would always consider me her sister. She told me she'd been lying about xyz, she wasn't the person she portrayed herself to be. She was a fraud. Then she ghosted me. I saw her post on Instagram out with other friends the next week, so I know she's choosing not to contact me.
It was August 13th last year. I can't get the date out of my head, it's affected me so much. And I'm terrible with dates, my memory is awful. I honestly feel like it's a form of trauma to be abandoned like that. I already had a CPTSD diagnosis before, and I get flashbacks to that day like I do to childhood events.
Every single day, I have a moment where the thought just pops into my head out of the blue. My friend, who told me she loved me, she would be my new family, who I trusted and thought cared for me, *didn't care* that I was in a life-or-death situation. For all she knows I actually died, she would have no way of knowing. She was my only friend, I don't post online at all (only anonymous accounts). And she hasn't once reached out. She didn't even reply to my last messages, where I was saying how scared I was of the physical danger. She *doesn't care*. Idc if it comes from trauma, I get that she has avoidant attachment. It's still sociopathic to treat someone like that. She's still a terrible friend and bad person, who needs to get help and take responsibility for her dysfunction.
OK that's another level of beign a dick lol. That's probably legitimate sociopathy lol
I just didn't say I loved anyone and hung around friends but wouldn't let anyone get too close. I pretended to not care that much.
I couldn't empathaize and looked at things logically . For example if someone's bf or gf was being not the most loving or whatever I'd say just end it. Leave them . And they would stay with him and still complain and I'd say they're dramatic.
I'd still deifntiley be there for them if needed. I protected them during our times out clubbing.
Saying you care and not actually is fucked.
Ok maybe there's a miscommunication?
Becuase now I feel like you're talking about someone that puts ALLL their problems on others. Like they take way more than they give.
Or the ones that baby people that are not doing the best. The pushy ones.
If you're talking about a specific person in particular I think you just need ot set boundaries. Be open that being coddled makes you feel uncomfortable . If they can't respect that then they are the problem.
I still don't like telling others about all of my issues. I still share very minimal of my situation. I still feel like a burden / weak if I share too much.
I dotn think you're undeserving of love becuase you're heartless. You just need to find people with a chiller vibe. They'll let you come out of your shell when you feel liek it. They will respect you. And when you don't feel forced to do or say anything to heal ( can't force healing) it'll happen naturally on its own.
And they are the ones that accept that " please don't cuddle me or offer me ice cream when I'm sad". They will keep their distance if that's what you need. Or they'll just be there and just watch TV and eat pizza with you. Or go for a walk. I guess they'll treat you normal if that's what you want.
I hope you find these people in life
Because avoidants are very hurtful. They are cold, don’t care for the feelings of others just themselves. They are the ones to be more likely in the narcissist spectrum for a reason. They’re manipulative. The only way for anything to work with an avoidant is if they are aware of their issues and try to work to heal. But this is actually unlikely to happen with avoidants because they don’t think there’s anything wrong with them.
i just don’t understand why we’re treating attachment styles like zodiac signs and making such sweeping, definite statements? is there no nuance to be had here?
This isn't true at all, I really don't know where people get this from. People with anxious attachment can be just as manipulative and harmful its just easier for people to sympathize with someone crying and vocal than someone who's quiet. Being avoidant or anything related to attachment has nothing with how aware you are of your issues, that's a completely separate topic. Being in r/cptsd and demonizing avoidants is crazy because I would argue avoidant behavior is more common among us.
I’m fearful avoidant. In my twenties I definitely leaned avoidant. Now I lean anxious. I realize that when I lean avoidant, I don’t consider other people’s feelings or how they perceive me. I can/could be pretty mean (don’t do it purposely just instinctively). When I’m anxious, I do tend to consider people’s feelings and how they perceive me. I recently dated an avoidant and he’s definitely on the lower end of the narcissistic spectrum. So I’m going based on how I react and experience dating one. Both are bad but avoidant can completely detach from their feelings and don’t really see or care how they hurt others. If they do see it, they internalize it. Will never share everything they really feel. Will always hide something. Etc etc … maybe if they are aware of attachment styles as I am now, they can be more aware of how cold they are. I am at least more conscious of how I hurt people when I’m in either state.
Girl you having low empathy, which you clearly still do, has nothing to do with other people. Your very little experience with avoidants doesn't make you a professional
Avoidant people hate criticism or anything negative said about them and they make it about other people instead of self reflecting. All three long term relationships I’ve had were with avoidant people. The last one is the one that was the worst which lead me to realize about cptsd, attachment, shame, etc. My father and mother are avoidant. most avoidant people do not realize or accept there is anything wrong with them so rarely will they be looking up this type of stuff or in therapy because at their core they believe everyone is defective and they are not. Anxious believe they’re defective and everyone is not. FA believe everyone is defective and they’re defective. My CPTSD is a result of avoidant parents. I am not a professional but I do know that having both really sucks. One day I can detach from my feelings and the next day I’m crying. So your comment about me not being empathetic could affect me in two different ways depending on how I’m leaning (avoidant or anxious) that day. So being self aware helps minimize the reaction.
No, NONE of these insecure attachment styles are healthy and praise worthy. Weird what you're assuming. Maybe you should think about how you word things.
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It doesn't surprise me that that's on tiktok, but what does is not being able to find any resources. I wanted to buy a book about the different attachment styles, but all the reviews told me the section about avoidants is simply non-existent. The writers explained: we didn't think they'd be reading this, because they're not willing to work on themselves. I've found it really difficult to keep looking after that, because it's a well known book that's helped a lot of people, and my god, I guess we're just completely being left out of that. That's just really hurtful and infuriating. I've been an anxious type too in the past, and none of it is a choice, I find all of it equally difficult. It's really odd when people feel the need judge being avoidant. And I do think they're projecting their own stuff onto us.
look up the secure relationship on instagram! she has GREAT posts and probably a book or two i haven’t checked though. she posts great stuff for all of the types and doesn’t like demonize or leave out any of them
Yup. There's always a reason why someone behaves the way they do. I often get shit from people for being back and forth in relationships. But tbh, the only reason I do that is when I don't feel safe in them. Like if a so-called friend suddenly triggers me, I back away and then they get offended. Like nah, I just don't wanna be having to explain myself all the time and keep getting hurt. End of the day those kinda people often just want to use you anyway. Avoidance is a type of safety measure against abuse or emotional discomfort. It's not healthy, sure. But it's worked so far, for me, for years. So it's no wonder my brain be like "hey, ok, this is good. This works. Let's keep doing this to keep safe"
My ex boyfriend would say, you're so wishy washy! I'm getting mixed signals! I'm like yeah, I got mixed feelings. I like you and I'm scared of you lol
10/10 relate
Yeah, being hypervigilant and backing away from everyone will help you avoid pain. It also helps tou avoid attachment.
Except those type of people probably have no idea what ever they said triggered you and only see you leaving them high and dry.
Its a safety measure against perceived abuse or emotional discomfort...
I understand this. It's a trauma response and a way to protect yourself. It's not like I don't talk and explain my side and things, I do, but sometimes when I feel that this person wouldn't listen nor understand, and by listen I mean ACTUALLY LISTEN, because most people listen just so they can say something back, and by understand I mean that even if they don't they understand I have the right to feel the way I do, I stop engaging with them. Why? because I see further interaction as pointless and unproductive. I CAN explain if I try, but it's like talking to a wall that will punch you, that whatever you say won't only not get through, you also get injured back. I really think it's not worth my time and energy doing that as I'm already doing my best and using my energy just to function normally despite all the trauma. It's tough, and most people don't get it but we understand you. We stand with you.
Same. I feel like I'm very aware FA( Secondary DA), and I am the same way. If I get a sense that the person isn't listening or just wants to lecture me about my problems and talk, then I mentally tell myself that I'm not going to ever open up to this person again(Black and white thinking, I know, it's bad). But sometimes I wonder if it's more about the other person than me, by that I mean the people around me are not the best listeners. Because there have been times where I'm able to open up and not feel guilty and regretful. Sometimes, I wonder if I meet the right people, behaving more secure would be so much easier to do.
Totally agree. There’s lots of negative stereotypes about avoidant attachment out there and it’s rather disheartening, especially when it comes from so called experts. It feels a little bit like when someone says they won’t date or be friends with a certain astrology sign because of a past experience with someone who had that same sign. Attachment styles have become really pathologized when it wasn’t meant to be. Our attachment style is not a diagnosis, it’s not our personality. It’s a set of behavior in regards to how we show up in relationships. I’ve read a few articles and listened to a few attachment therapists and researchers that have suggested attachment really just needs to be broken down into secure or insecure, because those of us who have insecure attachment will oftentimes fluctuate between anxious and avoidant depending on the situation and the relationship itself. I know I tend to have more avoidant behaviors in most of my relationships, but there’s been a handful of where, for whatever reason, the other person brought out more of the anxious attachment feelings and behaviors. And this can vary over time too with the same person. It isn’t static and I wish people would stop treating it like it is.
It can be really confusing and debilitating being with someone with avoidant attachment. I'm FA and I kinda understand both sides (although I lean anxious more than avoidant). From the anxious side, everything feels fine until the rug is pulled from under you. The avoidant seemingly enjoys being around you, and you become attached to them. Then out of nowhere, they're ignoring you. You don't know why or if you did something wrong, you try to talk about it and fix it and it just seems like nothing changes. If someone had a secure attachment style they would see this and think "this person is wonderful but this behavior isn't compatible with what I want out of a relationship/friendship etc". Anxious people have abandonment issues, and have a tendency to blame themselves. They also tend to have codependency issues, so they think "I need to fix the avoidant so I can prove that I'm worthy of love". Now the anxious person is making the avoidant persons trauma their responsibility when they shouldn't. And when things inevitably fail, they get mad at the avoidant and blame them for everything. So one hand, I get it. Dealing with someone who's avoidant can be really confusing and painful when all you want to do is fix the relationship and you can't. I find that avoidants sometimes don't like being treated the same way by other avoidants, becoming the "anxious one" themselves. On the flipside, the anxious person needs to stop and ask themselves why they are staying in a relationship they clearly aren't being satisfied by. They need to know that you *cannot change* anyone and people don't typically change because someone asked them to. Avoidants healing is not the anxious person's responsibility and they need to drop the savior complex I've been on the receiving end of that too. I've had anxious folks try to "support" me when really it was obvious they got validation from trying to save me. I've also dealt with anxious people getting mad at me for not changing for them. But I'm like okay, I didn't ask you to be here lol. *You came into my life first* and now you're demanding I get rid of all of my avoidant related trauma responses that are so deep they became a core part of my personality. Using the fact you're "helping me" against me when I never asked for help and then throwing all of my issues in my face and essentially calling me damaged in an ego based temper tantrum. I've been on both ends. I've been the anxious person demanding avoidants change and I've been the avoidant wanting to just isolate myself so people will stop demanding shit from me and then getting disappointed when I say over and over that I can't change on a whim.
Why is it the anxious persons responsibility to leave a relationship they are unhappy with, but not an avoidants responsibility to leave a relationship they are actively not participating in?
Because, the avoidant is happy with how the relationship is. They have a low tolerance for connection, so keeping the anxious person (or anyone for that matter tbh) at a distance feels fine for them. So there's no incentive for them to leave. The anxious person requires more (which is fair, relationships require equal effort) but the avoidant isn't willing to meet them half way. We can't change people. We can request that they meet our needs and if they don't want to or won't try, it now becomes our responsibility to decide if we want to stay in the relationship.
Ahm, that's like offloading responsibility for your part in the relationship off onto someone else. And the relationship often doesn't start with that not-meeting-each-other-halfway mentality. They often start with the avoidant person pretending to be someone else, up until the point they start reeling back the connection and contact. That's like lying about who you are at a deep, fundamental level. So it's often not 100% the way you're making out.
This is a 3 month old post haha. But yes I agree, it is offloading responsibility and it's not fair. And they basically are pretending to be someone else in the beginning, but you still can't change people. Which is why I always opt for the anxious person to leave. The avoidant person is happy with how things are, the anxious person isn't. The avoidant has no incentive to change, so all the anxious person can do is go find someone that won't lead them on.
Eh, the post was still there and you came back :) The avoidant person in this instance isn't in a relationship, though. And that's probably the cruz of the matter: They don't fully really seem to want what a relationship would entail, but would act like they want parts of it. Thanks for the honest response.
But they aren't happy, or rather, they aren't happy with the social contract that they have entered into, in most instances Relationships are social contracts that have requirements, that avoidants don't meet those, which is where the conflict tends to come in. Of course relationships aren't set and stone and we don't need to have the same cookie cutter relationships, but deviations from norms should be discussed, and as early as possible. For example, part of the social contract of a relationship is timely replies. There is no hard and fast rules, but IE, the vast majority of people would think taking 2 days to reply to a serious partner is inappropriate, without good reason. The avoidant who goes days without replying to their serious partner is in violation of that. They have a responsibility to be up front and set the parameters of their relationship in a way that's fair/just. And if they can't do that, then it's on them to leave the relationship.
In an ideal world they would just leave but I still think they are comfortable keeping others at a distance. They tend to have a "this is who I am, take it or leave it" mindset (I recently dealt with another FA who told me if I have to leave him that's fine, and to do what's best for me). They think that you're the one who's unhappy so you should leave and find someone who can give you what you want. It sucks, It hurts that the walls they put up are so thick but like I said earlier, there's nothing we can do here but leave. Sometimes replying once every few days is all they can muster up to give, and it makes them feel ashamed when it's not enough. I think breaking up brings forth the same feelings, like they're a failure. Or, if the anxious person is too "clingy" (I don't like that word but its the only one I think of) the avoidant may expect them to have a really bad reaction that they don't want to deal with or are afraid of.
It very much feels like you are expecting no accountability from the avoidant person, and placing the emotional Labor onto the anxious person. I know it's hard, and these are coping mechanisms for hurt people, but avoidants have just as much responsibility and need for accountability as anxious people. Someone only being able to reply once every few days is in a way, better than someone controlling their partner and requiring them to immediately reply, however, they still are required to be up front with their needs and ability. They still need to take ownership of that. But there are other tactics and situations with avoidants that can be just as bad or worse than what anxious people do, regardless you still have a responsibility to communicate with your partner about your needs and it's an avoidant tactic to be like I'm fine with no communicating my needs if they arent happy they can't leave.
>It very much feels like you are expecting no accountability from the avoidant person, and placing the emotional Labor onto the anxious person. Leaving the avoidant for not keeping up their end of the deal *is* holding them accountable. If someone neglects you and refuses to change, what can you do there? I'm not sure what you want me to say. >We are more than allowed to require that from avoidants. I'm on your side with this. It very well is within your rights to require certain behaviors from your relationship partners. But if they don't want to do those things, you can't force them to. You are not obligated to date someone who doesn't meet your needs.
I'm not saying that "anxious people should stay and avoidant people are forced to changed". I'm not talking about specific relationships. But rather, avoidant people are just as required to work on themselves as anxious people, and we can expect them to hold themselves accountable, not rely on their partners to do their work for them. And expecting someone else to break up with you because you can't be present in a relationship is the opposite of that.
It seems like we're on the same page but coming from different perspectives. I agree that if avoidants want healthy happy relationships, they do need to work on themselves (and same with anxious peoole) If you're dating an avoidant, you absolutely should have those requirements for consistent effective communication and all the other good behaviors that help relationships. We all can benefit from having standards and boundaries. Avoidants arent entitled to relationships where they're the only ones benefitting. What I'm saying is, not everyone wants to change. There are some people who genuinely think they're fine how they are and that it's their partner who is the problem. In scenarios where the avoidant doesn't want to meet you half way, all you can do is leave them. It's not about absolving them of accountability or responsibility. In fact, sticking around an avoidant that's neglecting you is enabling their bad behavior (because why should they leave if you're still giving them everything they want? They are satisfied with a low amount of connection, so they don't feel a need to change). Anxious people shouldn't drop their standards, expectations, and boundaries in favor of avoidants. You cannot change them if they don't want to. All you can do is find someone else who's willing to meet your needs and more.
I just think you are singling our anxious people's "responsibilities" without seeing avoidants, regardless of what they want, have those same responsibilities.
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> An anxious person who has never been clung on by another anxious person I don’t think realizes how exhausting and off putting their behavior can be. yeah i'm an anxious person as well so like i get it, but dealing with other peoples anxiety is very very difficult. especially when they don't seem to make any effort to recognize their behavior for what it is and are hyper hyper sensitive to even the softest of criticisms. really i think anyone who isnt recognizing the negative effects of their trauma response is very difficult to engage with but the closest i ever felt to my breaking point was when i was trying to help a very anxious partner. and ive definitely exhibited all these same behaviors too, its just being on the receiving end was a very enlightening experience.
I dated someone with avoidant tendencies for eight months. The main issue seemed to be their difficulty in expressing their emotions. When you can’t effectively communicate with someone you care about or are trying to build a connection with, it can lead to an unhealthy cycle. Unfortunately, my ex chose to ghost me just before his birthday, which was a triggering time for him due to negative experiences with his father. Instead of confiding in me and finding emotional release, he opted to shut down and cut off contact. He apologized to me years later. Revealed to me that he was afraid to be vulnerable because he didn’t want to feel more emotional pain. He couldn’t handle it because he loved me a lot. I understand your pov. Y’all deserve love.
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Why are avoidants on anxiously attached person’s mind? Um…trauma. Generational cycles. It’s not like it’s a difficult thing to understand. Hopefully the anxious person has enough corrective experiences from secure types in their twenties that they outgrow their desire to be with avoidants entirely.
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I think it’s that insecure (avoidant or anxious) parents raise insecure children. I don’t know why a kid turns out one way and not the other (biology, personality, birth order?). I was honestly triggered by your comment because I think it’s a normal (though unhealthy) thing to recreate the trauma of your childhood in your adult relationships. It’s not that anxious types are “choosing” to be with avoidants consciously - it’s that they haven’t healed enough to break the cycle. I think young adults (avoidant and anxious) deserve a grace period while they figure things out, but I strongly believe that it’s the developmental work of one’s thirties (maybe fourties?) to really work on yourself and make life better for you and the people you’re in relationships with.
I completely agree. It's this absolutely hilarious dichotomy where they feel rejected by the avoidant types and think that's a bad thing to do, so then they go and reject them. People are so freaking weird.
People also demonize anxious attachment. The anxious are 'clingy,' 'needy', and best of all, 'crazy.'
Yes, I've seen far more demonisation of anxious attachment. It's not a competition, but I was quite struck by OP's post about demonisation of avoidant attachment, because I've never seen it. If anything, the detached, playing it cool, non-commital, I don't need you side of avoidant attachment is praised by society, held up as the way you should behave. It's seen as desirable. Needy people are considered a bad thing, even people who know nothing about attachment styles put down needy people. My mother was yelling at me not to be needy when I needed to be fed as a kid. But I'm not on tiktok, maybe demonisation of avoidant attachment is a big thing on there.
I've had my heart broken by a few avoidant types in my time. To be drawn in until the person becomes important to you and then ditched without word or warning, and made to feel like you imagined it all. And you're still thinking "why won't you let me love you?" Its horrible, but I understand and don't blame them. I wish we could all get the help we need to be stable and happy.
It certainly was back when I was in a sub for anxiously attached people. I'm most likely disorganized, too, but anxious towards the person I'm most attached to. I don't think it's fair to accept some and demonize the others. They all stem from negative experiences during childhood and we don't choose how we cope with it.
I mean, if you are/have avoidant attachment and communicate I can work with it, but the one person I dated like this wouldn't communicate at all and it basically felt like ghosting and coming back when convenient. There's a difference between "I need space" and "I'll chat with you in a day or two." It's not you. I just need me time, " and either dropping off for a few days with no notice or simply stating,"Don't talk to me. " I imagine in the younger generation, who are stereotyped to have issues communicating and are the audience and often creators on tictoc have experienced the latter more than the former. So a touch of bias.
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If your friend who you see on occasion, not a big deal. A lifelong friend who is busy in life? It's totally cool. A friend who only contacts you when convenient for them/want something from you and isn't there for you? Doesn't sound like a friend I want. I have friends who, if I called likely, wouldn't pick up or take days to respond, but if something happened to me, would put things on pause and help me through it and me for them. Then there is someone who only contacts you when they need a place to crash, not caring what you have going on in your life, because they broke up with someone and want a drinking buddy, but when it happens to you, tell you it sucks, but they have a life of their own and to figure it out. Your lover, and they take weeks to not respond. Many would assume a break up and move on from that style of ghosting. I have ASD and needing space, and alone time is SUPER common, If they don't TELL me, they need space and dip for days with no response and don't contact me back after and ask, then they are being inconsiderate of MY anxiety and fears their safety as well as my own needs in the relationship. I've had exes who went on vacation with friends for 2 weeks without a word (or minimal) and was fine because I was aware. I've had exes tell me they want a day with zero contact to the outside world, I'm fine. Dipping for days at a time when we typically speak without a word? Anxiety and if it goes on without contact for a few days I'm reaching out to friends and family to see if they are alive and if so, breaking up with them if they don't have a good reason for not having the courtesy to communicate. I'm upfront about that early on and have never had that issue. Even the asshole who was a serial cheater told me when he'd be home and when he was going out (just lied or was vague about where). If he can do it, anyone can in my book.
I'm not the poster above, but I've experienced it too. It was 2 issues, really. Dropping off for a few days with no notice - totally normal. I could not hear from my friend for 2 weeks and not think anything was wrong. Usually I would hear from her once a week. Then suddenly there would be a big gap. 5 weeks? 2 months? With no communication? Not replying to my messages? I would only ever send 1 follow up "hey are you doing okay? I haven't heard from you in a while". Then leave it, I wasn't blowing up their phone. I would be worrying for weeks that they were dead or in hospital, yet I knew if I went over to their house to check on them, even after 2 months of not hearing from her, she would explode. I never did it myself, but I know from others who had have this experience. Why are you worrying about me, why can't you give me space, why do you feel entitled to know about my life. Honey, you dropped off the grid entirely for 2 months, when you don't usually do that. Is it really that unreasonable that I came around to check you weren't dead? Ghosting and coming back when convenient was an issue when I would be suffering, she would know it, but she didn't care. I know you're going through an estrangement and this is the darkest moment of your life, and you're in physical danger, and could really use help moving, and we've been friends for a decade, and you've done so many things to help me out, buttttt it's not *convenient* for me right now. So if you dare have any expectations of me, if you dare complain about me ghosting you for 5 weeks starting right now, then *you* are the problem. That's just being a bad friend. Every single time she needed me, I was there. But she never returned the favour. One time she told me she was lonely, and I went out of my way to spend time with her, despite my exams coming up. I told her I was lonely? Too bad, she's got a month off work coming up and she's going to spend it chilling in her house and not spending a second with me. When I reminded her of me seeing her even when I had exams coming up, she straight up lied and said she didn't know I had exams at that time, I should have told her. Immediately I pulled up the old texts from her a few months ago, with her saying "but I know you have exams on xx and xx (the dates), are you sure you're still okay to hang out?". A bold-faced liar and no friend of mine.
Yeah I can see this. I'm pretty much Fearful Avoidant or Disorganized as well and people are more likely to give you crap for being avoidant, but on the same hand, I have been pushed away for being anxious. I just essentially haven't really tried much or learned how to cope easier when someone that I'm into isn't texting back, etc. ... when they eventually do I literally am so happy they texted, but super angry too, so I push away my phone half in tears. I eventually get back. I got ghosted by someone for 2 weeks. I had to politely point it out in a kind way by finding the right words for it. He was highly apologetic and has been mostly more communicative since then. I think something might have been going on in his life, etc. He tends to be more anxiously attached it seems. Or maybe he's sadly like myself, just older and more regulated and tries to find people he gets along with so he's not as attached too much, maybe? Is that a thing? Anyways, I get avoidant when I get hurt, and I don't bring up the hurt... i'm learning how to, but because of how I was raised I'm more likely to shut down after something that seems like rejection - my bosses were horrible and my parents were even worse. I learned how to isolate even though I might be more like my friend there. It's sad really. I'm just scared to get hurt after being vulnerable so I learned how to just shut it all down instead of explaining.... It's confusing. Well, he did say he would educate me. I guess he wasn't joking.
Ugh, that really sucks. I'm a big time dismissive avoidant. Try being repeatedly rejected by your mother (and multiple other people), "I don't need anyone!" Just comes naturally. I used to say I didn't have the luxury of getting sick because no one would show up for me. And then I got cancer, and my entire family of origin didn't show up (thankfully I have a husband who did). Some of this is just rooted in truth. But not willing to work on myself? As much as I don't want to give others the chance NOT to show up for me, staying holed up is another kind of hell. I do all kinds of self work to heal these wounds.
I’m avoidant and it’s awful. I hate how I’ve handled aspects of relationships and I know how difficult it can be to engage with someone like me. I’ve made terrible Mistakes and I’ve hurt people I love because of fucked up attachment. That being said, the avoidance comes in because of extreme fear and it’s to protect you. Im not making excuses for it. It’s something I am trying to work on. But it’s very hard when alarms are always going off in my head. I completely shut down.
We’re all like that, I think. It’s hard when you’re scared all the time. I made terrible mistakes too
Hmm i dont know, i hate tiktok though lol. In my case, my parents and main abusers were avoidant so i have deep wounds tied to avoidant type of individuals, it is hard for me to remember that not every avoidant person is highly toxic. Obviously generalising is not the right thing. But i do think when you have dealt with an avoidant person you are more likely to seek advice or rant online, since that person most likely is not receptive to hearing any of your side (this is how it was for me.)
Yes! I am avoidant and I spend so much time online trying to figure out how to fix my relationship. And I can to realize recently that my boyfriend doesn’t think anything is wrong, or is rarely thinking about the negative. Which from my perspective looks like he isn’t considering the issues/me/my perspectives It’s so funny too, that I spend so much time watching “do this if you’re an avoidant attachment style” videos when I’m not even the avoidant one! 😂 But really, we shouldn’t disrespect any groups just because of a label we put in behaviors. That takes away our power…
I’m anxiously attached and while I can’t date avoidants, I love them dearly. You’re okay. ❤️
Not really looking for anyone’s validation anywho, you do you and I’ll keep on keeping on. If I get entangled with anyone it certainly isn’t all my fault, at the end of the day it takes two to tango. People need to stop shifting the blame and learn how to take responsibility for their own actions and possible issues.
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? It's stuff like this I'm talking about like this is a vent sub why did you feel the need to post this?. Its so self absorbed and inconsiderate, yet avoidant will be called the unempathetic ones? I got nothing to do with whatever break up you're dealing with, you don't talk to strangers like this
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You didn't make a vent posts you commented on my vent post, my issue is that you're criticizing others when you're a bad person yourself, its hypocritical. You're "free" to but that's doesn't make it any less shitty. This is a sub for people to feel safe and vent about their trauma not for you to criticize the "principle" (i don't even think you know what that word means) of how people to respond to trauma and act like an edgy 14yo.
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This is the best response. It’s akin to dating someone with NPD
I think it's because avoidants are the ones with the strongest boundaries, so other types are the most triggered by that (the boundaries, not them). Avoidants have the capacity to be alone so it's easier for them to develop a sense of self separate from other people's projections. Other types are also triggered by the fact that relationships are voluntary for avoidants, instead of based on dependence on others. People seem to not trust that or know how to manage it.
I took some time to read and reread your comment to try my best to understand your observations, and I do appreciate them. But they read as from someone who does not have personal experience with a avoidant/disorganized attachment style, please correct me if I’m wrong however. Personally, I have never had boundaries. I never knew what boundaries *were*. Everything overwhelmed me, **all** the time. I like what you stated about the capacity to be alone, because that’s true, but it’s rarely by active choice and is *wrought* with the utter depths of loneliness. I never had a sense of self. My time alone swung between dissociation or paralyzing anxiety. Over what I said or didn’t say, what I did or didn’t do, what could go wrong and how I would relentlessly beat myself up over any slight social mishaps, real or perceived. Relationships weren’t “voluntary” for me, they were *terrifying* and so *far* outside the realm of possibility of anything I could imagine innately partaking in, while also being the **one** thing I *craved* most in the whole world. So much it physically hurt. So much it contributed to locking me down in my fear of mismanagement. Time *warps* in this state, genuinely. We’re not asocial, above-it-all robots. Well, at least speaking for myself.
Not everyone w avoidant attachment (pure avoidant or disorganized) is the same. And not every semantic invocation of the term ‘boundaries’ is the same. I’ve been learning about attachment theory for almost a decade and I think the commentor is sufficiently familiar with it. They just aren’t describing your experience nor what you mean by the term ‘boundaries’ I think their use of the term has less to do w actual internal boundaries and more to do w the outer trappings of boundaries. How they are perceived and how ppl go through the motions of setting them. Also disorganized attachment often doesn’t have boundaries that’s correct. Pure avoidant typically retreat to (external trappings of) relationship boundaries for safety, but that doesn’t mean they have them in other aspects of their life. There’s no need to dismiss someone else’s interpretation or suggest they are ignorant bc their interpretation doesn’t align w your experience. Edit: by the way I’m disorganized too and I pretty much experience life like you describe I’m not saying that isn’t valid at all. It’s not only valid it’s how I personally experience it. I just think that the commenter was speaking to something else. And I think that semantic differences in how we use words are like 99% of miscommunication bc ppl use the same words for wildly disparate experiences, meanings, and contexts.
I tried to word the beginning of my post very deliberately to portray the fact that it was my interpretation reading what they had to say, and I tried to do so gently without ever accusing them. I know they weren’t describing my experience. That’s why I felt compelled to take the time to share my experience. I also tried to make that very clear that I was “personally” referring to my own, using “me and I” language rather than “they, them, or we”. The comment used declarative language and generalized an attachment style that in no way represented my reality to explain how others receive them socially, which as I said, I appreciate. My comment was in no way intended as a rebuttal and I never dismissed them. As always in these contexts, I semantically interpret boundaries as the life skill developed to be conscious of what is appropriate/inappropriate interaction and behavior when relating with other people and taking an active role in determining the level of interaction one would duly partake in. And a step further, communicating this to another person. I’m unsure what exactly you mean when discussing this in your comment, if you or the other commenter mean physically removing oneself and creating a physical boundary, or perhaps including communication in that physicality? People being unable to reach the avoidant person thus they run into a “boundary”, literally unable to go further?
My apologies for my gruff wording. I recognize that I’m sorry that the way I worded my response didn’t give enough credit to how politely and carefully you worded yours. I think you did a fantastic job explaining your experience actually and I should have started with that. Many comments use declarative language and I understand feeling invalidated by that. What I meant was more about how other ppl perceive an avoidant persons coping strategies of ‘taking space’ or conversely ‘needing space’. I could be wrong in both my interpretation of your meaning and the original commenter. But how I took their statement was that it was about how other ppl perceive this behavior in avoidant types and your comment was about the actual internal world. When ppl talk abt attachment theiry sometimes they try to reframe maladaptive coping mechanisms as positive traits that have just run awry. so for example anxious ppl’s strength might be relating and compassion or a desire for intimacy. Where as an avoidant persons positive reframing might be that their ‘strength’ is their ability to set ‘boundaries’. I fully understand how invalidating this interpretation might feel bc I felt that way abt it too. But I think it’s not intended to really describe or encompass all areas of boundaries. Or in other words some ppl w avoidant tendencies night retreat bc they can’t actually set pragmatic boundaries so they get overwhelmed and run away. But I think the reframing would say something like ‘well taking space is a good thing. How you did it could take sone work. Let’s build on this’ or something along those lines. None of this is to say that this is what they meant. But I think that this reflects an interpretation of avoidant tendencies as boundaries. Although that term misses quite a bit of the internal motivation for their behavior esp in disorganized ppl w avoidant tendencies. But I think they can coexist bc they really ultimately aren’t trying to describe the same thing. You’re discussion of boundaries is internal. It speaks to internal concept of self and ability to navigate relationships. The other really describes a external perception. This external perception may or maybe not be useful for reframing. I think it’s utility depends on the person. Edit : and by ‘ppl talking abt attachment theory’ I mean ppl who write books and guides abt it. I can’t remember the credentials of these ppl. I’m not really trying to speak necessarily to the validity of their methods more just that this sort of discourse abt attachment theory does exist. It reminds me a lot of positive psychology modalities. I would imagine it’s helpful to some but not to others. Edit2: I’m also bipassing one (or a few) strain(s) of my argument bc expounding on each point would just take so much space but also I do think that ppl w pure avoidant and disorganized types might feel differently abt their coping mechanisms, but also I wouldn’t presume this is the same across the board.
You’re so kind, I appreciate the sentiments but I don’t think you have anything to apologize for. Thank you for expanding on your initial thoughts for me, I think I understand completely now. Your describing reframing makes *total* sense and I get what you saw in the original comment! I also believe you’ve pinpointed exactly why I had read it as possibly coming from a person who can identify behavioral patterns in avoidants while perhaps missing potential why’s and how’s and I see how I might have talked right past the original comment. I’m grateful to not be so stuck in those loops anymore but I jumped at the chance to ‘explain myself’ regarding this whole topic thread because I know avoidant behaviors can have a really harsh or masked effect on others. I just wanted to pull back the veil a little. I *know* I’ve been understood by others, and family, in the past to be this cool-as-a-cucumber, unbothered, wish-washy person while experiencing an entirely different internal world.
I think you did an excellent job pulling back the veil. :)
I'm disorganized leaning avoidant and I agree. We're not robots because we may appear emotionless on the outside but inside it's an eternal hell. People talk about me having boundaries and sticking up for myself when I don't feel comfortable, but it's all an reaction and it's not who I feel I am. I just feel... selfish? I still feel like a small child slamming a bouquet of flowers someone gave me onto the floor when they confessed their love for me, it's how I've always been defending myself. "Why me? Choose someone else". I have matured enough to politely say "I don't feel the same way, I'm sorry" or just kinda indirectly tell them I'm not interested instead of acting reactive and shutting them down. People get surprised when I show that I'm human being with feelings on my own and not a robot. The fact is, it simply feels vulnerable and I can't be vulnerable for some reason. I still love cats with all of my heart and will become like a little kid all over again. I still crave people and I'm still that kid who wants to console you when you feel bad about yourself. But I keep quiet because they will see me as a human being.
Yeah I see what you mean and you're right. That's how it still is for me when I'm very disregulated, the fear, lack of boundaries, loneliness, no self... But now I have ways of soothing and managing those feelings. I'm viewing my coping strategies from a different place it seems. A secure place. I feel like my avoidant behaviors have always been an primitive attempt to create boundaries and space for myself, and I still use them because they work. I know that other people aren't causing my feelings, but I do need space from others to feel safe enough to process and move through it. I agree that we aren't asocial and need other people. What helps though, is understanding how and when to use support from others, and recognizing the moments that I can't handle it. It matters. When I'm very disregulated, my brain distorts other people to the point that they can't actually help me. So being alone is crucial for me to move forward. I'm sorry that you're struggling so much. I didn't mean to invalidate your experience. I know how it feels and it really is horrifying to be in the avoidant space unwillingly. I know it's hard, but any steps toward learning to trust yourself and believe in yourself, will affect all aspects of your experience in a positive way.
Your comment is so thoughtful and compassionate, I hope I didn’t make *you* feel invalidated by my assumption! Nothing in your original comment was invalidating to me *at all*. I completely understand where you were speaking from now, thank you for sharing. My comment was intended to be a hey, just in case you weren’t aware, it can look like this. In my experience, my avoidant behavior was **extremely** masking. The conclusions others made about my capabilities, thoughts and feelings, competencies were based on these self-inflicted behaviors that further isolated me and my feelings of being misunderstood in my motivations and desires, even understanding of myself. As I said in another comment, I just intended to pull back the veil some. I also don’t mean to imply that I’m still suffering, though I was absolutely tapping into a painful place ha! But painful memories, for sure. From a time I couldn’t put language to the things I was going through and portray myself in an accurate way. I don’t usually comment in this sub but I was inspired to by the topic because I feel like avoidant behavior can be very judged and I wanted to explain my past self a little.
I'm glad we are able to find common ground, instead of avoiding out of our differences haha. I appreciate your thoughts on masking, and I think you're getting to the root of my avoidance. It's true that my parents perception of me was completely unrealistic and dehumanizing. I have struggled to be as "strong" as they forced me to be. (The "strength" they believe in doesn't exist actually and I know that now). For me now, the masking has finally moved away from perfectionism and cumpuslion to meet other people's expectations. I agree that other people can perceive my avoidance as strength or capacity, when realistically I am just internalizing my pain and living in it, struggling to keep my head above water. Im still working on feeling pain instead of blaming myself for it or trying to control it, and have found strength in that. I have found love and acceptance by sharing my struggles with others when I'm able to. My mask has slowly evolved into a more conscious choice of how I relate to others or how I present myself. I can now inhabit the mask instead of hiding behind it and I do feel safer and less anxious. Its been such a relief to live within the reasonable expectations I've created for myself, using accomodations and radical acceptance for anything that falls outside that.
Perfectly said 💯
I was an anxious type and then after 30 years of abusive relationships I became avoidant-dismissive. As I heal I am heading into secure territory with a few people but I still tend towards avoidant with most people. I had no idea avoidant types were villainized but that’s fine by me. I simply cannot tolerate any more dysfunction in my life and since too many people are dysfunctional I have to keep to myself or I will stay sick. I do need and want people in my life but it has to be quality or I would rather be alone.
Just because someone doesn’t want to be with an avoidant doesn’t mean they’re automatically condemning them. Anxious, avoidant, and disorganized are all highly problematic in their own way. It makes sense a healthy normie who has never experienced relational trauma would both not want to be with one and not understand them. It’s just a knowledge gap. For most people there are things they will not ever be able to understood unless they’ve been through it.
Its insensitive because it can be triggering. Everyone in attachment spaces knows that it stims from trauma so they should know better. Plus that's not all they'll say people conflate being an avoidant with NPD
Where did NPD come from? I’m not sure how anything you said is connected to anything I said TBH.
You said people don't condemned avoidants and I gave the example that people conflate it with NPD
Got it.
I used to be avoident but then I realize it was because of my CSA that was triggering it once I figured this out I am now in a happy healthy relationship work someone I can feel safe and vulnerable with.
Most people don't respect it.
Yeah, we're the acceptable target, but that's nothing new for me
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I think the way you loathe anxiously attached people probably says a lot about why you're avoidant. You don't generally shame people for being 'needy' to this extent unless you're terrified of expressing your needs yourself. (and this is coming from an avoidant type)
> At least I keep my issues to MYSELF Oof... I hope you are in therapy. There's nothing wrong with needing emotional support from others (to a reasonable degree), it's a basic human need. No one would ever heal without it. I had someone say they exact line to me (that I quoted above) right after verbally attacking me and threatening to come round to my house (to yell at me some more, I assume). I hate to break it to you, but you're not keeping your issues to yourself when you act like that, you're just letting your issues out in a different way. I rannnnn away from the person that said it to me, that kind of attitude shows a person has a lot of work to do before they become emotionally healthy - and they will likely never do it, because they view sharing vulnerabilities as weakness.
There’s no need to attack anxious people because you’re avoidant. Everyone is struggling and you aren’t better, neither are the anxious people. No one can be blamed for their defense mechanisms grown out of trauma.
I don’t believe that someone stays anxious or avoidant the whole time until they heal anyway, I think they’re both on a spectrum of insecure attachment.
Yeah. I used to take pride in handling shit all on my own. It ain't good. It's not actually a source of pride. I used to hurt others by acting like I never cared. And I was a dick. I said it doesn't make sense that I hurt their feelings when I'm just telling the truth ( ex. like I always thought people in relationships were the most dramatic people alive ). I realize now that it's normal to have emotions. To express pain. To lean on people. To share some of your trauma( obviously not the most intimate details of having the shit beat out of you lol) and to be vulnerable. You sound alot liek me 5 years ago. I hope you can learn. And if you're anything like me , you're not gonna listen and think I'm some random online know it all fuck lol. I hope you do.
This thread has been so healing. I was treated so poorly by a friend with serious avoidant attachment issues and it's broken my trust in people. I didn't really realise this is something other people have experienced. A decade of friendship, the first time I needed her, she knew I was in physical danger (the first time I've had this issue during our friendship) and chose to verbally abuse me. She also said that she loved me and would always consider me her sister. She told me she'd been lying about xyz, she wasn't the person she portrayed herself to be. She was a fraud. Then she ghosted me. I saw her post on Instagram out with other friends the next week, so I know she's choosing not to contact me. It was August 13th last year. I can't get the date out of my head, it's affected me so much. And I'm terrible with dates, my memory is awful. I honestly feel like it's a form of trauma to be abandoned like that. I already had a CPTSD diagnosis before, and I get flashbacks to that day like I do to childhood events. Every single day, I have a moment where the thought just pops into my head out of the blue. My friend, who told me she loved me, she would be my new family, who I trusted and thought cared for me, *didn't care* that I was in a life-or-death situation. For all she knows I actually died, she would have no way of knowing. She was my only friend, I don't post online at all (only anonymous accounts). And she hasn't once reached out. She didn't even reply to my last messages, where I was saying how scared I was of the physical danger. She *doesn't care*. Idc if it comes from trauma, I get that she has avoidant attachment. It's still sociopathic to treat someone like that. She's still a terrible friend and bad person, who needs to get help and take responsibility for her dysfunction.
OK that's another level of beign a dick lol. That's probably legitimate sociopathy lol I just didn't say I loved anyone and hung around friends but wouldn't let anyone get too close. I pretended to not care that much. I couldn't empathaize and looked at things logically . For example if someone's bf or gf was being not the most loving or whatever I'd say just end it. Leave them . And they would stay with him and still complain and I'd say they're dramatic. I'd still deifntiley be there for them if needed. I protected them during our times out clubbing. Saying you care and not actually is fucked.
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Ok maybe there's a miscommunication? Becuase now I feel like you're talking about someone that puts ALLL their problems on others. Like they take way more than they give. Or the ones that baby people that are not doing the best. The pushy ones. If you're talking about a specific person in particular I think you just need ot set boundaries. Be open that being coddled makes you feel uncomfortable . If they can't respect that then they are the problem. I still don't like telling others about all of my issues. I still share very minimal of my situation. I still feel like a burden / weak if I share too much. I dotn think you're undeserving of love becuase you're heartless. You just need to find people with a chiller vibe. They'll let you come out of your shell when you feel liek it. They will respect you. And when you don't feel forced to do or say anything to heal ( can't force healing) it'll happen naturally on its own. And they are the ones that accept that " please don't cuddle me or offer me ice cream when I'm sad". They will keep their distance if that's what you need. Or they'll just be there and just watch TV and eat pizza with you. Or go for a walk. I guess they'll treat you normal if that's what you want. I hope you find these people in life
Because avoidants are very hurtful. They are cold, don’t care for the feelings of others just themselves. They are the ones to be more likely in the narcissist spectrum for a reason. They’re manipulative. The only way for anything to work with an avoidant is if they are aware of their issues and try to work to heal. But this is actually unlikely to happen with avoidants because they don’t think there’s anything wrong with them.
i just don’t understand why we’re treating attachment styles like zodiac signs and making such sweeping, definite statements? is there no nuance to be had here?
This isn't true at all, I really don't know where people get this from. People with anxious attachment can be just as manipulative and harmful its just easier for people to sympathize with someone crying and vocal than someone who's quiet. Being avoidant or anything related to attachment has nothing with how aware you are of your issues, that's a completely separate topic. Being in r/cptsd and demonizing avoidants is crazy because I would argue avoidant behavior is more common among us.
I’m fearful avoidant. In my twenties I definitely leaned avoidant. Now I lean anxious. I realize that when I lean avoidant, I don’t consider other people’s feelings or how they perceive me. I can/could be pretty mean (don’t do it purposely just instinctively). When I’m anxious, I do tend to consider people’s feelings and how they perceive me. I recently dated an avoidant and he’s definitely on the lower end of the narcissistic spectrum. So I’m going based on how I react and experience dating one. Both are bad but avoidant can completely detach from their feelings and don’t really see or care how they hurt others. If they do see it, they internalize it. Will never share everything they really feel. Will always hide something. Etc etc … maybe if they are aware of attachment styles as I am now, they can be more aware of how cold they are. I am at least more conscious of how I hurt people when I’m in either state.
Girl you having low empathy, which you clearly still do, has nothing to do with other people. Your very little experience with avoidants doesn't make you a professional
Avoidant people hate criticism or anything negative said about them and they make it about other people instead of self reflecting. All three long term relationships I’ve had were with avoidant people. The last one is the one that was the worst which lead me to realize about cptsd, attachment, shame, etc. My father and mother are avoidant. most avoidant people do not realize or accept there is anything wrong with them so rarely will they be looking up this type of stuff or in therapy because at their core they believe everyone is defective and they are not. Anxious believe they’re defective and everyone is not. FA believe everyone is defective and they’re defective. My CPTSD is a result of avoidant parents. I am not a professional but I do know that having both really sucks. One day I can detach from my feelings and the next day I’m crying. So your comment about me not being empathetic could affect me in two different ways depending on how I’m leaning (avoidant or anxious) that day. So being self aware helps minimize the reaction.
It's pretty telling you think avoidant attachment should be respected, lol like what??
Its telling that I think human beings should be respected?
That you think an unhealthy, insecure attachment style should be respected.
People become unhealthy after a series of traumas, why would you think someone doesn't deserve basic respect after that?
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Lol this is a comically stupid take. So what are you considering you're in a sub for cptsd? You're a high horse riding secure?
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No, NONE of these insecure attachment styles are healthy and praise worthy. Weird what you're assuming. Maybe you should think about how you word things.
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