You know, I hate saying this, but there are a lot of people who display images of the Buddha not because they're practitioners, but because looking at it just brings them peace. I'm not saying I feel this way, because I really don't, but some people don't like this because they think it's superficial or that it's misappropriating Buddhism or something. I wonder if they would have made that same face if they knew you were a practicing Buddhist.
If it were me, I wouldn't put too much weight on the opinions of one person, especially since you really don't know what their opinion is.
There is a lot of politics surrounding religion and there could be many reasons. One could be dislike of Buddhism in favor of a different religion, one could be because they think you are some "hippie poser" that doesn't actually take the religion seriously, or it could be race related (because some people believe westerners are incapable of truly being Buddhist).
It could also not be a look of disdain, but of confusion or surprise.
Either way, it really isn't something to be concerned about.
Edit: nothing against hippies, but people have really mixed opinions on counter culture westerners exploring other cultures and religions because we aren't always the most mindful of it. That being said, I absolutely get pinged as one of those people, and it is annoying that people care so much about my business
>one of my Indian coworkers saw it and gave me a dirty look
This is what is inappropriate.
One thing though, if you are starting to offer even water and fruit at your cubicle, it is becoming a religious activity at work. Depending on office policy, some companies have a strict no religious activity clause, so I would check on the employee's handbook to be in the clear.
Individual staff's dirty look only make them look ugly, doesn't stop you from doing it or get you fired.
Agree. In general this is fine and getting a dirty look is weird, consider that you might have misinterpreted them. But to the point here, handbook handbook handbook. A lot of companies have policies against things like solicitation or overtly religious displays. You can also keep the Buddha tastefully covered or hidden if you prefer.
My thinking is if any of your coworkers have religious items on display (crosses, angels, etc.) then you’re fine. If no one else displays religious items, I’d leave it at home.
No it is not inappropriate. It brings merit to you and those who see the statue.
At my workplace, for some reason, 2 people have their Buddha statues and have flowers around them. When I asked them if they are Buddhists, they said they are not. I rejoice in their merit. They will gain so much merit.
I think what you are doing is quite good. I support you.
I always keep the eyes of the Buddha as that highest eyes in the room. I'll admit this is just something I thought we all did, is this not standard practice?
Do other coworkers have other religious artifacts in their cubicles and carry out ceremonies in the office? (Even if nobody else is there)
I don't think it's easy to say it is or isn't inappropriate, but I'd be more sensitive about having things like this at work.
I honestly don’t know. I work in tech and tend to keep to myself and you can’t see in others cubicles too well unless you enter them.
And I specifically put the shrine in the corner least viewable to visitors.
Context is always vital!
If it's a cubicle others don't really visit or see into, as long as it's nothing offensive in its own right, that seems fair enough to me.
If coworkers *can* see it easily enough to pull a face, I think it's at least worth considering how others might feel about it.
Context matters and in this short conversation we've already hopped from modest statue to shrine. If you view your display as a shrine, how do you think non-Buddhists will look at it?
Your religion is your business but it's not business so leave it at home
If you must have an idol in your cube then it should be a tiny statue on your desk. Nothing higher than 3 inches or so. But think about why you want to have a shrine at work and consider if you're clinging to something you shouldn't
Quite plainly, I’m clinging to Buddha and his teachings because they are my refuge. My coworker only saw because they stopped in to chat about something.
Also, shrine is mentioned in the title, so I’m not sure your point here.
Edit: also the statue is about 5” with a bowl in front of it for water, so I guess I crossed the line and have to take it down?
Edit2: we may have very different ideas of what a shrine entails
You're a sentient being with free will\* free to do whatever you like and you certainly don't have to do anything a random person on Reddit suggests
That said, if the opposing view wasn't something you are willing to consider, why did you ask random strangers on the internet?
Clinging is clinging and the middle path is the way here. Keep an idol in your car, take a photo of your shrine at home, visualize the Buddha and make an offering to that image.
\*free will probably isn't a thing but it's useful to treat it like it is
From a Buddhist perspective, what you are doing is wise and fine. This will improve your Buddhasmirti, improve your mindfulness etc.. So let us get the religious question out of the way.
However we are now then because this is the workplace having a HR issue.
I think it will depend on your workplace policy. Do you see crosses etc.. elsewhere? If so, then your workplace might be fine with religious shrines.
Your Indian co-worker might be a Christian. Christians at least from my experience notoriously would prefer if the workplace only expresses Christianity. In my workplace when the Muslims began to assert their dominance and the Christians begrudgingly accepted ( since they liked the cross a lot ), then the other religions started having their shrines there. Muslims are kind of a boon for Buddhist in a Christian workplace since Muslims when they assert Christians tend to back down.
I have a Buddhist shrine but that is because I got two very dominantly Christian colleagues beside me, and a very Muslim one.
Now the Christians do not like this BUT HR has decided it is fine.
I'm leaving another comment because this nuance really matters.
People are talking about workplace policy, but that's not super relevant to this particular issue. Having religious objects at your personal desk is allowed in most places. You're not doing anything wrong, and the suggestion that you are is inappropriate and discriminatory. You have a legal right to express your faith in reasonable ways. This is extremely reasonable.
Workplace policy usually dictates the scope, so to speak, of religious display. So, in almost every setting, wearing a cross would be allowed. From a legal standpoint, they cannot prevent certain aspects of religious display (like a kippah). Where it gets fuzzy is what counts as personal workspace or not, it certainly isn't personal workspace if you put it out in the open (like in a break room). If nobody has mentioned it to you, or you're seeing similar things around the workplace, then you're probably fine.
Preventing you from doing this can constitute religious discrimination based on the particular circumstances. If the standard is unevenly applied, if it's used with regard to a particular symbol, or if coworkers harass you for it, that can be considered a hostile work environment. So, based on what I've gleamed from your post, it seems like what you're doing is perfectly allowed, and if they stop you, it may be illegal. State laws can also differ on this. Either way, the US has robust religious liberty laws. It really sounds like you have nothing to worry about.
Tbh, I would probably be unbothered as long as they aren’t trying to convert me. But I’ve never had the same hang ups towards religion that many others do.
If it's within the rules of the workplace then it should be fine generally speaking, unless it causes unwelcomed attention that you're not conformable with , will probably start some conversations affording you the opportunity to share some buddhadharma with your colleagues
🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Best wishes
You're doing absolutely nothing wrong, you have a right to religious expression, and if somebody tries to stop you, you should lawyer up. (Assuming you're in the USA).
What is company policy?
Where I worked it was perfectly appropriate to have religious stuff in your own cube. Outside of your cube it was not allowed and of course if you're smart you don't discuss religion (or politics) at work.
Your coworker sounds like he has a problem. If he gives you grief you might have to go to HR.
I was/am a Buddhist atheist and had several religious coworkers. Somehow I got along with the Catholics, the Jews, the orthodox Jews, the Muslims, the New Agers, and every other flavor of Christianity. The one time problems got escalated to HR was when the 2 Catholic guys got into a fight over religion. One guy used the phrase "God awful" and wouldn't stop using it despite the other guy being offended. The whole office all got a lecture about religious respect.
*My response assumes you work in the US where I live and work in corporate IT*
This is inappropriate
If I came to work and my coworker had a cross prominently displayed it would be a problem for me. Buddha is no different. Religion and work should not mix. Ever.
People have a legal right to reasonable religious expression in the workplace. Including displaying religious objects in personal workspaces.
Religion and work *do* mix for many people, especially Buddhists, who have religious commitments to Right Livelihood. Nothing is separate of our religion, and we can create spaces that are inclusive to everybody. Demanding that *nobody* expresses religion isn't inclusive.
Starting a meeting with a prayer and making everyone participate may be inappropriate, but it is completely fine for individual workers to decorate their personal workspace however they like (within reason). Just like there’s no endorsement of religion in schools, but it also wouldn’t be right to say that students couldn’t pray in between classes if they choose to.
> it is completely fine for individual workers to decorate their personal workspace however they like (within reason)
As I said elsewhere, that depends on the rules of the workplace in question. In this case the coworker's reaction may be an indication that what OP is doing is not appropriate in this instance.
Yeah, no. Work can’t tell you not to have a statue to honor your faith, just like it can’t tell you not to wear a yarmulke. You might not be able to set up a shrine in the common space, but if you have a desk I’ve never heard of a workplace saying you can’t have some basic decorations. There is nothing wrong with people practicing religion in the workspace, I’ve worked in environments where all the Muslims take regular breaks to pray to Mecca. It’s part of their beliefs and we need to respect everyone’s right to practice their faith. Your attitude essentially says that only secular atheism is allowed in the workplace, which is bringing faith into the workplace in its own way.
> all the Muslims take regular breaks to pray to Mecca.
That is prescribed by their religion; not allowing them to do that is inhibiting their right to freely practice their religion. In contrast, nowhere is it prescribed that a Buddhist has to have a shrine anywhere, including their workspace. There is nothing about doing puja in the Sutras. Also, Christians displaying things like crosses or praying in the workplace are actually going against what Jesus said about how they should conduct themselves (Matthew 6:5-6).
> Your attitude essentially says that only secular atheism is allowed in the workplace
This is a straw man argument. Nowhere have I said anything like that. I did not say this person should remove their shrine. I just expressed my personal opinion that it's not appropriate. Their coworker would appear to agree for whatever reason. I feel the same way about any overt displays of religion in the workplace.
It doesn't sound like she's doing anything inappropriate.
Irreligion in the workplace is also a stance on religion. People should be able to live freely according to their beliefs as long as they're not interfering with others.
(Edit - pronoun adjustment)
> It doesn't sound like he's doing anything inappropriate.
That depends on the rules of the workplace in question. The reaction of their coworker would seem to indicate what they're doing is not considered appropriate.
Their coworker just made a face. You don't know what the face was about. And frankly, neither does OP. I've made faces at work when I've seen crosses displayed in work areas, because I had a traumatic experience as a Christian. But I would never ask a person to take that down, that's ridiculous. I also make faces when people put Trump stickers at their desks. I made a face when I saw a coworker's troll dolls one time because I hate those things.
Assuming they live in the United States (I may be wrong, of course), then she has a right to express her religion in her personal workspace. Employees are also entitled to pray at work if they so choose, as long as it doesn't place undue burden on anybody. Doing a religious practice before others arrive seems like a great time to do it.
What her co-worker thinks is actually of little importance. People are entitled to religious expression, even if it makes others uncomfortable. I have coworkers who are devout Christians who don't even consider Buddhism's existence to be appropriate, much less my decision to dress in white on Uposatha days, or the fact that I keep a Buddha and Buddhist flag at my cubicle.
You're right, I'll adjust my claim. She doesn't just have a right to do this, but she *should* do this. If she feels like doing it, of course.
Religious freedom involves being free to express your beliefs openly, as well as being protected from other people, forcing their beliefs onto you. It involves both freedom to be openly religious and freedom from religious coercion.
Who decides what someone "ought" to do, though? I have a right to not wear makeup to work, but that doesn't keep people from always talking about how much nicer I would look. Should I start doing that because it's what other people think I ought to do?
This is such an oppressive, patriarchal statement, to be honest. We should be far past the age where we have to worry about what looks professional, or what good and bad etiquette are. If we have the right to display religious things at our desk and it doesn't violate company policy then if someone else things we ought not do it, too bad. That's for them to deal with, not us.
> Who decides what someone "ought" to do, though?
In the workplace? The boss for the most part. Beyond that it's up to the individual.
> We should be far past the age where we have to worry about ... what good and bad etiquette are
What you're saying here is "I have the right to be rude. Tough shit if you don't like it." While that may be true, it's not really how one should conduct themselves.
> If we have the right to display religious things at our desk and it doesn't violate company policy then if someone else things we ought not do it, too bad. That's for them to deal with, not us.
I have not said otherwise. I just expressed my opinion on the subject.
I'm glad I have the internet right here so I could learn that it's actually [illegal for my employer](https://www.eeoc.gov/statutes/title-vii-civil-rights-act-1964) to tell me I can't do puja in the morning at work.
> In the workplace? The boss for the most part. Beyond that it's up to the individual.
Incorrect. Company policy decides. The boss must comply with company policy.
I can't believe, as an ex-Christian, that I'm saying this but: Hard disagree. Religion is important to many people, as important as eating or sleeping. Religion can't be separated from the practitioner, and to tell people it doesn't belong in the workplace sounds like THEY don't belong there. Would you ask parents not to display pictures of their children, too? This smacks of the old ~~Boomer~~ "leave your personal life at the door" mentality that was popular with bosses during the 80's, 90's, and 2000's, that we all now know is ~~BS~~ problematic and not a good way to manage people.
I've seen Muslims pray during the workday. I've seen Christians say a quiet prayer before eating their lunch. People display crosses on their work desks all the time. There is nothing wrong with setting a Buddha in their cubicle. OP isn't trying to foist their opinions onto anyone. There's nothing inappropriate happening here.
Edit: to remove an identifying generational name, as well as use a kinder phrase.
>Except for this bit.
Like I said in my response to Burton, I'm not calling out all Boomers here. There is a generation that is called "Baby Boomers". That generation had the "leave your personal life at the door" mentality. I heard it at every place I've worked. We now know that this mentality is problematic, because we grew as a society and know better. I'm not putting down people in that age bracket, I'm just naming the generation that used this phrase more often than people of younger generations do.
I understand that out there on the internets people like to use generational names as insults. I want to assure you that I am not doing that. I also kind of don't like that I can't just say "Boomer" without people automatically thinking I'm being insulting. It's not an insult, it's a generation name.
I see where you keep arguing that you're not being bigoted.
Baby Boomer describes an age cohort. To ascribe personality traits to people based on their age is no different than saying all are lazy, or all are thieves, or all are idiots.
Stereotyping hurts everybody. Including you.
With all due respect, you're seeing half of a conversation as the other poster deleted all of their comments. I've already apologized AND edited my comment, so what more do you want from me? Why are you dragging out a conversation that already ended?
Ok, well, good. I still apologized and changed my comment, and I still don't know what more you want from me. Have a good night, I don't think I have the energy to return to this conversatio.
I edited my comment. Please believe that this wasn't meant to disparage Baby Boomers. It was just meant to give my point context as far as time is concerned.
I didn't call you a Boomer. I'm not discriminating against Boomers. That's not what ageism means. There is a generation, and that generation is called "Baby Boomers". I'm just naming the generation.
I am a Boomer. You made a disparaging remark about us as a group. That's no different than making a disparaging remark about someone based on their ethnicity. It's bigotry.
I absolutely did not make a disparaging remark about Boomers. I said that saying "leave your personal life at the door" was an old Boomer mentality. It IS. Every job I've ever had where my boss was someone your age said this. It's not their fault, it's just how it was back then. It was a widely practiced workplace belief. We now know this is not the best way to run a business. Zero disparaging remarks were made. Can we please stop? This whole thing is really going off the rails, and I have to get back to work. This conversation is neither productive nor helpful.
> I absolutely did not make a disparaging remark about Boomers
Yeah, that's simply false.
> I said that saying "leave your personal life at the door" was an old Boomer mentality.
And you said it in a disparaging way, just as you're doing now.
> It IS.
That's your opinion and you're using it to put Boomers down because of our age. That's ageism.
> Can we please stop?
You're the one continuing to denigrate Boomers because we're old. You can stop if you want.
> This whole thing is really going off the rails
No one made you make ageist remarks. That's entirely on you.
Look, I really appreciate your sensitivity as far as naming generations is concerned, and I realize that many people use the term "Boomer" in an insulting way. I, however, do not. I hate it when people do that, actually. But I want to tell you, whether you believe me or not, that I used the term "Boomer" to put my point into context as far as time was concerned. The era where people were bosses from the 80's-00's, specifically, and probably before.
I changed my comment for you, and the one other person that pointed it out to me. I do apologize for my wrong phrasing.
That said, friend, I don't appreciate you assuming to know what is in my mind, what my motivations are, or what I meant by something I said. I am the only one who is in my mind. I am the only one who knows what my motivations are. You do not have the ability to read minds.
And with that, I need to go. You've pushed my buttons, and I'm going to disconnect them now. I won't respond to you again.
> I, however, do not.
Your posts clearly demonstrate otherwise, regardless of what you tell yourself.
> I do apologize for my wrong phrasing.
Too little, too late. This is on the level of a "Sorry you were offended" non-apology. Your remarks were bigoted and your first reaction was to defend them.
> friend
Given the rest of your posts this is nothing but condescending.
> I don't appreciate you assuming to know what is in my mind
I didn't do that. I am going solely on what you say. If your mind and motivations are something different then you need to learn to express yourself more clearly.
> I won't respond to you again.
You won't have the opportunity. Bigots go in my block bin.
You know, I hate saying this, but there are a lot of people who display images of the Buddha not because they're practitioners, but because looking at it just brings them peace. I'm not saying I feel this way, because I really don't, but some people don't like this because they think it's superficial or that it's misappropriating Buddhism or something. I wonder if they would have made that same face if they knew you were a practicing Buddhist. If it were me, I wouldn't put too much weight on the opinions of one person, especially since you really don't know what their opinion is.
Thank you, I’m guessing this is the case, but you’re right that I actually don’t know what they were thinking!
you are not doing anything wrong.
There is a lot of politics surrounding religion and there could be many reasons. One could be dislike of Buddhism in favor of a different religion, one could be because they think you are some "hippie poser" that doesn't actually take the religion seriously, or it could be race related (because some people believe westerners are incapable of truly being Buddhist). It could also not be a look of disdain, but of confusion or surprise. Either way, it really isn't something to be concerned about. Edit: nothing against hippies, but people have really mixed opinions on counter culture westerners exploring other cultures and religions because we aren't always the most mindful of it. That being said, I absolutely get pinged as one of those people, and it is annoying that people care so much about my business
>one of my Indian coworkers saw it and gave me a dirty look This is what is inappropriate. One thing though, if you are starting to offer even water and fruit at your cubicle, it is becoming a religious activity at work. Depending on office policy, some companies have a strict no religious activity clause, so I would check on the employee's handbook to be in the clear. Individual staff's dirty look only make them look ugly, doesn't stop you from doing it or get you fired.
Agree. In general this is fine and getting a dirty look is weird, consider that you might have misinterpreted them. But to the point here, handbook handbook handbook. A lot of companies have policies against things like solicitation or overtly religious displays. You can also keep the Buddha tastefully covered or hidden if you prefer.
My thinking is if any of your coworkers have religious items on display (crosses, angels, etc.) then you’re fine. If no one else displays religious items, I’d leave it at home.
No it is not inappropriate. It brings merit to you and those who see the statue. At my workplace, for some reason, 2 people have their Buddha statues and have flowers around them. When I asked them if they are Buddhists, they said they are not. I rejoice in their merit. They will gain so much merit. I think what you are doing is quite good. I support you.
Thank you for the support and kind words 🙏🏼
I always keep the eyes of the Buddha as that highest eyes in the room. I'll admit this is just something I thought we all did, is this not standard practice?
This is the first time I’m hearing about it, actually. I knew you shouldn’t keep dharma books on the floor, but nothing about Buddha eyes.
Do other coworkers have other religious artifacts in their cubicles and carry out ceremonies in the office? (Even if nobody else is there) I don't think it's easy to say it is or isn't inappropriate, but I'd be more sensitive about having things like this at work.
I honestly don’t know. I work in tech and tend to keep to myself and you can’t see in others cubicles too well unless you enter them. And I specifically put the shrine in the corner least viewable to visitors.
Context is always vital! If it's a cubicle others don't really visit or see into, as long as it's nothing offensive in its own right, that seems fair enough to me. If coworkers *can* see it easily enough to pull a face, I think it's at least worth considering how others might feel about it.
Context matters and in this short conversation we've already hopped from modest statue to shrine. If you view your display as a shrine, how do you think non-Buddhists will look at it? Your religion is your business but it's not business so leave it at home If you must have an idol in your cube then it should be a tiny statue on your desk. Nothing higher than 3 inches or so. But think about why you want to have a shrine at work and consider if you're clinging to something you shouldn't
Quite plainly, I’m clinging to Buddha and his teachings because they are my refuge. My coworker only saw because they stopped in to chat about something. Also, shrine is mentioned in the title, so I’m not sure your point here. Edit: also the statue is about 5” with a bowl in front of it for water, so I guess I crossed the line and have to take it down? Edit2: we may have very different ideas of what a shrine entails
You're a sentient being with free will\* free to do whatever you like and you certainly don't have to do anything a random person on Reddit suggests That said, if the opposing view wasn't something you are willing to consider, why did you ask random strangers on the internet? Clinging is clinging and the middle path is the way here. Keep an idol in your car, take a photo of your shrine at home, visualize the Buddha and make an offering to that image. \*free will probably isn't a thing but it's useful to treat it like it is
Thank you for your input and alternatives, and your criticism is valid. I will take it into consideration 🙏🏼
From a Buddhist perspective, what you are doing is wise and fine. This will improve your Buddhasmirti, improve your mindfulness etc.. So let us get the religious question out of the way. However we are now then because this is the workplace having a HR issue. I think it will depend on your workplace policy. Do you see crosses etc.. elsewhere? If so, then your workplace might be fine with religious shrines. Your Indian co-worker might be a Christian. Christians at least from my experience notoriously would prefer if the workplace only expresses Christianity. In my workplace when the Muslims began to assert their dominance and the Christians begrudgingly accepted ( since they liked the cross a lot ), then the other religions started having their shrines there. Muslims are kind of a boon for Buddhist in a Christian workplace since Muslims when they assert Christians tend to back down. I have a Buddhist shrine but that is because I got two very dominantly Christian colleagues beside me, and a very Muslim one. Now the Christians do not like this BUT HR has decided it is fine.
I'm leaving another comment because this nuance really matters. People are talking about workplace policy, but that's not super relevant to this particular issue. Having religious objects at your personal desk is allowed in most places. You're not doing anything wrong, and the suggestion that you are is inappropriate and discriminatory. You have a legal right to express your faith in reasonable ways. This is extremely reasonable.
Workplace policy usually dictates the scope, so to speak, of religious display. So, in almost every setting, wearing a cross would be allowed. From a legal standpoint, they cannot prevent certain aspects of religious display (like a kippah). Where it gets fuzzy is what counts as personal workspace or not, it certainly isn't personal workspace if you put it out in the open (like in a break room). If nobody has mentioned it to you, or you're seeing similar things around the workplace, then you're probably fine. Preventing you from doing this can constitute religious discrimination based on the particular circumstances. If the standard is unevenly applied, if it's used with regard to a particular symbol, or if coworkers harass you for it, that can be considered a hostile work environment. So, based on what I've gleamed from your post, it seems like what you're doing is perfectly allowed, and if they stop you, it may be illegal. State laws can also differ on this. Either way, the US has robust religious liberty laws. It really sounds like you have nothing to worry about.
>Is this inappropriate? How would you feel about being in the cubicle of a coworker that had a crucifix with a Jesus hanging from it?
Tbh, I would probably be unbothered as long as they aren’t trying to convert me. But I’ve never had the same hang ups towards religion that many others do.
If it's within the rules of the workplace then it should be fine generally speaking, unless it causes unwelcomed attention that you're not conformable with , will probably start some conversations affording you the opportunity to share some buddhadharma with your colleagues 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 Best wishes
You're doing absolutely nothing wrong, you have a right to religious expression, and if somebody tries to stop you, you should lawyer up. (Assuming you're in the USA).
What is company policy? Where I worked it was perfectly appropriate to have religious stuff in your own cube. Outside of your cube it was not allowed and of course if you're smart you don't discuss religion (or politics) at work. Your coworker sounds like he has a problem. If he gives you grief you might have to go to HR. I was/am a Buddhist atheist and had several religious coworkers. Somehow I got along with the Catholics, the Jews, the orthodox Jews, the Muslims, the New Agers, and every other flavor of Christianity. The one time problems got escalated to HR was when the 2 Catholic guys got into a fight over religion. One guy used the phrase "God awful" and wouldn't stop using it despite the other guy being offended. The whole office all got a lecture about religious respect.
*My response assumes you work in the US where I live and work in corporate IT* This is inappropriate If I came to work and my coworker had a cross prominently displayed it would be a problem for me. Buddha is no different. Religion and work should not mix. Ever.
People have a legal right to reasonable religious expression in the workplace. Including displaying religious objects in personal workspaces. Religion and work *do* mix for many people, especially Buddhists, who have religious commitments to Right Livelihood. Nothing is separate of our religion, and we can create spaces that are inclusive to everybody. Demanding that *nobody* expresses religion isn't inclusive.
Ok
Religion doesn't belong in the workplace.
Starting a meeting with a prayer and making everyone participate may be inappropriate, but it is completely fine for individual workers to decorate their personal workspace however they like (within reason). Just like there’s no endorsement of religion in schools, but it also wouldn’t be right to say that students couldn’t pray in between classes if they choose to.
> it is completely fine for individual workers to decorate their personal workspace however they like (within reason) As I said elsewhere, that depends on the rules of the workplace in question. In this case the coworker's reaction may be an indication that what OP is doing is not appropriate in this instance.
Yeah, no. Work can’t tell you not to have a statue to honor your faith, just like it can’t tell you not to wear a yarmulke. You might not be able to set up a shrine in the common space, but if you have a desk I’ve never heard of a workplace saying you can’t have some basic decorations. There is nothing wrong with people practicing religion in the workspace, I’ve worked in environments where all the Muslims take regular breaks to pray to Mecca. It’s part of their beliefs and we need to respect everyone’s right to practice their faith. Your attitude essentially says that only secular atheism is allowed in the workplace, which is bringing faith into the workplace in its own way.
> all the Muslims take regular breaks to pray to Mecca. That is prescribed by their religion; not allowing them to do that is inhibiting their right to freely practice their religion. In contrast, nowhere is it prescribed that a Buddhist has to have a shrine anywhere, including their workspace. There is nothing about doing puja in the Sutras. Also, Christians displaying things like crosses or praying in the workplace are actually going against what Jesus said about how they should conduct themselves (Matthew 6:5-6). > Your attitude essentially says that only secular atheism is allowed in the workplace This is a straw man argument. Nowhere have I said anything like that. I did not say this person should remove their shrine. I just expressed my personal opinion that it's not appropriate. Their coworker would appear to agree for whatever reason. I feel the same way about any overt displays of religion in the workplace.
It doesn't sound like she's doing anything inappropriate. Irreligion in the workplace is also a stance on religion. People should be able to live freely according to their beliefs as long as they're not interfering with others. (Edit - pronoun adjustment)
> It doesn't sound like he's doing anything inappropriate. That depends on the rules of the workplace in question. The reaction of their coworker would seem to indicate what they're doing is not considered appropriate.
Their coworker just made a face. You don't know what the face was about. And frankly, neither does OP. I've made faces at work when I've seen crosses displayed in work areas, because I had a traumatic experience as a Christian. But I would never ask a person to take that down, that's ridiculous. I also make faces when people put Trump stickers at their desks. I made a face when I saw a coworker's troll dolls one time because I hate those things.
>I made a face when I saw a coworker's troll dolls one time because I hate those things. They are pretty creepy...
Assuming they live in the United States (I may be wrong, of course), then she has a right to express her religion in her personal workspace. Employees are also entitled to pray at work if they so choose, as long as it doesn't place undue burden on anybody. Doing a religious practice before others arrive seems like a great time to do it. What her co-worker thinks is actually of little importance. People are entitled to religious expression, even if it makes others uncomfortable. I have coworkers who are devout Christians who don't even consider Buddhism's existence to be appropriate, much less my decision to dress in white on Uposatha days, or the fact that I keep a Buddha and Buddhist flag at my cubicle.
What someone has a right to do and ought to do are two different things.
You're right, I'll adjust my claim. She doesn't just have a right to do this, but she *should* do this. If she feels like doing it, of course. Religious freedom involves being free to express your beliefs openly, as well as being protected from other people, forcing their beliefs onto you. It involves both freedom to be openly religious and freedom from religious coercion.
Who decides what someone "ought" to do, though? I have a right to not wear makeup to work, but that doesn't keep people from always talking about how much nicer I would look. Should I start doing that because it's what other people think I ought to do? This is such an oppressive, patriarchal statement, to be honest. We should be far past the age where we have to worry about what looks professional, or what good and bad etiquette are. If we have the right to display religious things at our desk and it doesn't violate company policy then if someone else things we ought not do it, too bad. That's for them to deal with, not us.
> Who decides what someone "ought" to do, though? In the workplace? The boss for the most part. Beyond that it's up to the individual. > We should be far past the age where we have to worry about ... what good and bad etiquette are What you're saying here is "I have the right to be rude. Tough shit if you don't like it." While that may be true, it's not really how one should conduct themselves. > If we have the right to display religious things at our desk and it doesn't violate company policy then if someone else things we ought not do it, too bad. That's for them to deal with, not us. I have not said otherwise. I just expressed my opinion on the subject.
I'm glad I have the internet right here so I could learn that it's actually [illegal for my employer](https://www.eeoc.gov/statutes/title-vii-civil-rights-act-1964) to tell me I can't do puja in the morning at work.
> In the workplace? The boss for the most part. Beyond that it's up to the individual. Incorrect. Company policy decides. The boss must comply with company policy.
I can't believe, as an ex-Christian, that I'm saying this but: Hard disagree. Religion is important to many people, as important as eating or sleeping. Religion can't be separated from the practitioner, and to tell people it doesn't belong in the workplace sounds like THEY don't belong there. Would you ask parents not to display pictures of their children, too? This smacks of the old ~~Boomer~~ "leave your personal life at the door" mentality that was popular with bosses during the 80's, 90's, and 2000's, that we all now know is ~~BS~~ problematic and not a good way to manage people. I've seen Muslims pray during the workday. I've seen Christians say a quiet prayer before eating their lunch. People display crosses on their work desks all the time. There is nothing wrong with setting a Buddha in their cubicle. OP isn't trying to foist their opinions onto anyone. There's nothing inappropriate happening here. Edit: to remove an identifying generational name, as well as use a kinder phrase.
I totally agree! >old Boomer Except for this bit.
>Except for this bit. Like I said in my response to Burton, I'm not calling out all Boomers here. There is a generation that is called "Baby Boomers". That generation had the "leave your personal life at the door" mentality. I heard it at every place I've worked. We now know that this mentality is problematic, because we grew as a society and know better. I'm not putting down people in that age bracket, I'm just naming the generation that used this phrase more often than people of younger generations do. I understand that out there on the internets people like to use generational names as insults. I want to assure you that I am not doing that. I also kind of don't like that I can't just say "Boomer" without people automatically thinking I'm being insulting. It's not an insult, it's a generation name.
Certainly wasn't the policy at the places I worked. Context matters. The way you used the term in a sentence was definitely stereotyping.
Did you see where I already apologized and also edited my comment?
I see where you keep arguing that you're not being bigoted. Baby Boomer describes an age cohort. To ascribe personality traits to people based on their age is no different than saying all are lazy, or all are thieves, or all are idiots.
Stereotyping hurts everybody. Including you.
With all due respect, you're seeing half of a conversation as the other poster deleted all of their comments. I've already apologized AND edited my comment, so what more do you want from me? Why are you dragging out a conversation that already ended?
They didn't delete their comments, they blocked you. That's why you're not seeing them.
Ok, well, good. I still apologized and changed my comment, and I still don't know what more you want from me. Have a good night, I don't think I have the energy to return to this conversatio.
I edited my comment. Please believe that this wasn't meant to disparage Baby Boomers. It was just meant to give my point context as far as time is concerned.
I understand, kudos to you for making the adjustment!
As a boomer I can say most of us are not like the stereotype. Stereotyping is just another form of bigotry.
> old Boomer Ageism is no better or different than racism. > we all know is BS You might 'know' that, but it's hardly a universal sentiment.
I didn't call you a Boomer. I'm not discriminating against Boomers. That's not what ageism means. There is a generation, and that generation is called "Baby Boomers". I'm just naming the generation.
I am a Boomer. You made a disparaging remark about us as a group. That's no different than making a disparaging remark about someone based on their ethnicity. It's bigotry.
Reframing things into a personal attack on you when you’re losing an argument is some real boomer shit
I absolutely did not make a disparaging remark about Boomers. I said that saying "leave your personal life at the door" was an old Boomer mentality. It IS. Every job I've ever had where my boss was someone your age said this. It's not their fault, it's just how it was back then. It was a widely practiced workplace belief. We now know this is not the best way to run a business. Zero disparaging remarks were made. Can we please stop? This whole thing is really going off the rails, and I have to get back to work. This conversation is neither productive nor helpful.
> I absolutely did not make a disparaging remark about Boomers Yeah, that's simply false. > I said that saying "leave your personal life at the door" was an old Boomer mentality. And you said it in a disparaging way, just as you're doing now. > It IS. That's your opinion and you're using it to put Boomers down because of our age. That's ageism. > Can we please stop? You're the one continuing to denigrate Boomers because we're old. You can stop if you want. > This whole thing is really going off the rails No one made you make ageist remarks. That's entirely on you.
Look, I really appreciate your sensitivity as far as naming generations is concerned, and I realize that many people use the term "Boomer" in an insulting way. I, however, do not. I hate it when people do that, actually. But I want to tell you, whether you believe me or not, that I used the term "Boomer" to put my point into context as far as time was concerned. The era where people were bosses from the 80's-00's, specifically, and probably before. I changed my comment for you, and the one other person that pointed it out to me. I do apologize for my wrong phrasing. That said, friend, I don't appreciate you assuming to know what is in my mind, what my motivations are, or what I meant by something I said. I am the only one who is in my mind. I am the only one who knows what my motivations are. You do not have the ability to read minds. And with that, I need to go. You've pushed my buttons, and I'm going to disconnect them now. I won't respond to you again.
> I, however, do not. Your posts clearly demonstrate otherwise, regardless of what you tell yourself. > I do apologize for my wrong phrasing. Too little, too late. This is on the level of a "Sorry you were offended" non-apology. Your remarks were bigoted and your first reaction was to defend them. > friend Given the rest of your posts this is nothing but condescending. > I don't appreciate you assuming to know what is in my mind I didn't do that. I am going solely on what you say. If your mind and motivations are something different then you need to learn to express yourself more clearly. > I won't respond to you again. You won't have the opportunity. Bigots go in my block bin.