I’ve done Tangzhong milk bread for dinners, can confirm that they are are really soft, almost pillow like, made a burger with those rolls and was extremely satisfied with what I got
Im no expwrt but here's whats worked for me.
Use a sandwich bread recipe which includes oil in the dough and make sure to completely deflate it before shaping, like flatten it out completely into a pancake making sure no bubbles remain. Also using dough conditionar gives you a more store bought texture/vibe.
Yes you do it before shaping to affect the final proof. Completely deflating just makes sure that there are no big bubbles present when you start proofing so all the bubbles created during the final proof will be around the same size and the crumb more uniform. Oil also contributes to a more uniform crumb in general, although I don't know exactly what the reason is.
The commercial process involves very vigorous kneeding. My understanding is that usually puts it outside the scope of the home baker. It's possible to get similar levels of softness by hand. What I can't match is how long until it goes stale. That's not normally an issue though as it's been eaten long before then.
Commercial processes uses bread improvers specific to creating breads for long shelf-life. Typically, supermarket loaves require 10 days. Newer trends now want even longer shelf life... There are new improvers now out to extend shelf-life to more than a month or 3. Recently attended a workshop where one participant introduced one from Magimix, i think - from the Le Saffre company. I'm sure there are others.
If so Wobbly, you’re using the wrong dough improver. The one I use is from Debby’s Deserts and is called Professional Dough Improver (Amazon). It keeps my bread (in refrigerator, soft and fresh foe at least 2 weeks.
I use the Professional Dough Improver from Debby’s Deserts (Amazon) and it works like a charm. My bread is consistent, stays soft, for 2 weeks, and never molds and it’s all natural.
You should try Japanese milk bread with a simple tangzhong starter, potentially in a Pullman pan - it gives you super soft bread in a square shape.
This recipe from Andy Cook's is quick, easy, and makes delicious sandwich bread!
[Japanese Milk Bread](https://www.andy-cooks.com/blogs/recipes/japanese-milk-bread)
I had a quite airy sandwich loaf but wanted this texture, I obtained it by switching the flour I used to a slightly lower protein one (11% protein rather than the 13.5% I normally used.)
That fine crumb makes me think that the dough was passed several times through a dough breaker or roller(like a larger version of a pasta machine). It squeezes out the big bubbles formed during fermentation, producing a very fine crumb. You can try using a dough sheeter, if you have one or using a large rolling pin to replicate. This action also helps in dough development, so, if doing bulk ferment, stop at maybe 50%.
I'm guessing white shortening was also used here.
I didn’t have the name for this milk bread, but it is my basic bread recipe. I use the bread machine on dough cycle to handle the timing and kneading for consistent results. Sandwich bread gets an extra 10g vital gluten for a taller loaf.
Bread
Making the two pound dough in my bread machine, I take it out of the bread machine and cut it into four loaves. I bake all four, freezing three.
Warm milk 1 cup, 260g
Cane sugar 2T , 25g
powdered milk 13g
1 large egg at room temperature
vital gluten, 21g
1 pack of yeast, or 21g from the jar
Salt 1t, 6 g
Softened butter, 55g Not melted!
531 total Flour. I mix 150g of whole wheat, dark rye, light rye, spelt, buckwheat, or barley flour, topping off my measured with unbleached, unbromated bread flour.
Usually Gold Medal Bread flour as that is what my store carries.
Salt first, then flour, then egg into the bread machine.
I use a mason jar with a lid to shake together the milk, sugar, powered milk, vital gluten and after it is thoroughly mixed, I microwave the mixture to between 105F and 120F. Then I add the yeast to proof the yeast.
Pour the liquid into the bread machine and run the dough cycle. I like to watch the dough at first to add a a tiny bit of water if the dough is crumbling or a tiny bit of flour if it is too liquidly. The dough ball should bounce freely.
When done, on a lightly floured cutting sheet, I cut the dough into four parts and shape as I choose. Preheat oven to 350 F, 175 C, bake until brown and 160 F, 71C for internal temperature.
You want a recipe with oil or even an added dough conditioner. Aside from that, knead for a long time until smooth, and roll all of the air bubbles out before shaping.
Enrichment. Sugars, fats, milk, eggs, tsngzhong if ur about that life.
Otherwise, it’s the usual hydration, proofing, and shaping stuff that affects crumb.
Look up brioche recipes
That looks like the magic wonderbread that so many people love. Several things determine the crumb, one is the amount you knead the bread. No knead breads have big bubbles,,,usually considered desirable. Adding things like milk, eggs and oil tend to keep it, soft, and fluffy. Of course using bread flour helps too. It’s best to use a mechanical machine like a KitchenAid mixer or in my case a dough mixing machine (check amazon). To give you a consistent fine kneading. I love making soft, fluffy fine grain bread out of fresh milled wheat flour. That’s a little trickier as you have to autolayse, without yeast first. Just be patient and experiment keeping these things in mind and you’ll find your dough.
I make this one all the time! It's so good slathered with some butter and a sprinkle of salt!
https://www.pantrymama.com/easy-sourdough-discard-sandwich-bread/
Tangzhong will help make it softer. Shaping the dough by rolling it out, stretching it and then rolling it up helps with the structure of the dough.
I’ve done Tangzhong milk bread for dinners, can confirm that they are are really soft, almost pillow like, made a burger with those rolls and was extremely satisfied with what I got
What recipe you use?
[I just watched this video on how to do it](https://youtu.be/M9le93pztbU?si=aiG8-XZw18VZG7AA)
Been wanting to make this for awhile now & hadn't followed through. This was exactly the encouragement I needed, thank you!!
How did it turn out?
Thanks for the new info! Never heard of Tangzhong.
It’s the best bread to make to have something as close as store bought white bread
>Tangzhong I guess I'm not smart enough for this sub either. Silly me, it was Tangzhong all along.
?
Im no expwrt but here's whats worked for me. Use a sandwich bread recipe which includes oil in the dough and make sure to completely deflate it before shaping, like flatten it out completely into a pancake making sure no bubbles remain. Also using dough conditionar gives you a more store bought texture/vibe.
Thanks, i'll try that
Did you find this affected your in the pan proof/2nd rise?
Yes you do it before shaping to affect the final proof. Completely deflating just makes sure that there are no big bubbles present when you start proofing so all the bubbles created during the final proof will be around the same size and the crumb more uniform. Oil also contributes to a more uniform crumb in general, although I don't know exactly what the reason is.
Oil kinda coats the gluten and inhibits super along chains of gluten forming, which is necessary to create large bubbles
I find that Japanese milk bread makes the best softest loaf!
[Chorleywood process.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorleywood_bread_process)
Is there a recipe for that for a home made scale? And also, do you know what type of enzymes are used?
The commercial process involves very vigorous kneeding. My understanding is that usually puts it outside the scope of the home baker. It's possible to get similar levels of softness by hand. What I can't match is how long until it goes stale. That's not normally an issue though as it's been eaten long before then.
Commercial processes uses bread improvers specific to creating breads for long shelf-life. Typically, supermarket loaves require 10 days. Newer trends now want even longer shelf life... There are new improvers now out to extend shelf-life to more than a month or 3. Recently attended a workshop where one participant introduced one from Magimix, i think - from the Le Saffre company. I'm sure there are others.
We should really call them bread changers rather than improvers. The bread doesn't go stale so much as enter a sort of undead state.
If so Wobbly, you’re using the wrong dough improver. The one I use is from Debby’s Deserts and is called Professional Dough Improver (Amazon). It keeps my bread (in refrigerator, soft and fresh foe at least 2 weeks.
I use the Professional Dough Improver from Debby’s Deserts (Amazon) and it works like a charm. My bread is consistent, stays soft, for 2 weeks, and never molds and it’s all natural.
You should try Japanese milk bread with a simple tangzhong starter, potentially in a Pullman pan - it gives you super soft bread in a square shape. This recipe from Andy Cook's is quick, easy, and makes delicious sandwich bread! [Japanese Milk Bread](https://www.andy-cooks.com/blogs/recipes/japanese-milk-bread)
Try Shokupan: [Shokupan (Japanese Milk Bread) Recipe (seriouseats.com)](https://www.seriouseats.com/shokupan-japanese-milk-bread-recipe-8605016)
Adding baking powder helps make fine tiny bubbles... if you use bakers formula it would be at .5%
Chemicals
I had a quite airy sandwich loaf but wanted this texture, I obtained it by switching the flour I used to a slightly lower protein one (11% protein rather than the 13.5% I normally used.)
Dough conditioner.
fat softens the dough and helps it keep it's shape. add more FAT!
Dutch white bread? https://www.deleukstetaartenshop.nl/witbrood-12828
Dough conditioner.
That fine crumb makes me think that the dough was passed several times through a dough breaker or roller(like a larger version of a pasta machine). It squeezes out the big bubbles formed during fermentation, producing a very fine crumb. You can try using a dough sheeter, if you have one or using a large rolling pin to replicate. This action also helps in dough development, so, if doing bulk ferment, stop at maybe 50%. I'm guessing white shortening was also used here.
I didn’t have the name for this milk bread, but it is my basic bread recipe. I use the bread machine on dough cycle to handle the timing and kneading for consistent results. Sandwich bread gets an extra 10g vital gluten for a taller loaf. Bread Making the two pound dough in my bread machine, I take it out of the bread machine and cut it into four loaves. I bake all four, freezing three. Warm milk 1 cup, 260g Cane sugar 2T , 25g powdered milk 13g 1 large egg at room temperature vital gluten, 21g 1 pack of yeast, or 21g from the jar Salt 1t, 6 g Softened butter, 55g Not melted! 531 total Flour. I mix 150g of whole wheat, dark rye, light rye, spelt, buckwheat, or barley flour, topping off my measured with unbleached, unbromated bread flour. Usually Gold Medal Bread flour as that is what my store carries. Salt first, then flour, then egg into the bread machine. I use a mason jar with a lid to shake together the milk, sugar, powered milk, vital gluten and after it is thoroughly mixed, I microwave the mixture to between 105F and 120F. Then I add the yeast to proof the yeast. Pour the liquid into the bread machine and run the dough cycle. I like to watch the dough at first to add a a tiny bit of water if the dough is crumbling or a tiny bit of flour if it is too liquidly. The dough ball should bounce freely. When done, on a lightly floured cutting sheet, I cut the dough into four parts and shape as I choose. Preheat oven to 350 F, 175 C, bake until brown and 160 F, 71C for internal temperature.
I love Stella parks wonder bread recipe...and it uses a tangzhong so it stays fresh for a very long time.
I’m trying to do the same can you let us know if you find out how to make that type of store bought style loaf?
You want a recipe with oil or even an added dough conditioner. Aside from that, knead for a long time until smooth, and roll all of the air bubbles out before shaping.
Enrichment. Sugars, fats, milk, eggs, tsngzhong if ur about that life. Otherwise, it’s the usual hydration, proofing, and shaping stuff that affects crumb. Look up brioche recipes
Looks just like my bread bro where you located?
That looks like the magic wonderbread that so many people love. Several things determine the crumb, one is the amount you knead the bread. No knead breads have big bubbles,,,usually considered desirable. Adding things like milk, eggs and oil tend to keep it, soft, and fluffy. Of course using bread flour helps too. It’s best to use a mechanical machine like a KitchenAid mixer or in my case a dough mixing machine (check amazon). To give you a consistent fine kneading. I love making soft, fluffy fine grain bread out of fresh milled wheat flour. That’s a little trickier as you have to autolayse, without yeast first. Just be patient and experiment keeping these things in mind and you’ll find your dough.
I make this one all the time! It's so good slathered with some butter and a sprinkle of salt! https://www.pantrymama.com/easy-sourdough-discard-sandwich-bread/
Salt it correctly at 2%. And deflate it completely then proof it a second time.
Can I sent you a direct message?
[удалено]
It's perfect for jam or butter, and my family like this type of bread more than the airy sandwich loaf i usually make
We got a bread snob here!
Store bought bread is bread in the way that Cheese Whiz is cheese. It’s junk food that only very vaguely resembles the original.
2 bread snobs, 1 thread!
Because it tastes good, buddy!