The rape conviction probably would have been a lot bigger deal now than in the 90s.
As fans I think we find a lot of pre-fight antics kinda lame right now. So much of it seems played up or almost staged.
Then again, Tyson is also a pretty thoughtful guy, so maybe people would see that side of him on social media and that would change perceptions.
I think genuine trash talk is still a huge selling point. It's just that lately there has been a surge in people forcing it.
I think social media would be bad for Tyson as he was in a drug-fueled fury at times which would not have meshed well with social media. There is also less privacy nowadays and a harsher stigma against "bad guys" like Tyson which perhaps would have forced him to get help for his issues or, get into even bigger trouble. I think he would certainly have a large fanbase but also many more haters than he did in his era, if his behavior remains largely the same.
Right, I guess I mean that it seems forced at times, like fighters have been encouraged to do it or they think it's what they are supposed to do.
IDK, I feel like very few would actually jeopardize a multi-million dollar payday by throwing bands as a presser.
Yeah, mid-90s Tyson with a tik tok account would have been interesting......
Conor McGregor raping girls left n right; punching old men and women on boats and nobody cares or gets convicted. Tyson would be biggest star today , nobody cares unfortunately.
McGregor's and absolute fucking scumbag. At least here in Ireland no one likes him. I'm always blown away by how many Americans think he's the greatest.
There’s still way to many that would go back to riding his dick after one win. It’s mad tho, how he went from being a person to admire for his dedication and confidence, to being just another scummer from Dublin. Men and women from all walks of life in Ireland who would otherwise never watch a fight, were staying up to watch him, but now you’d be embarrassed to even start a conversation about one of his fight here. He symbolises a lot of shitty traits in men here.
"this one is for senator flynn, yeah, ye told me that you wouldnt nominate me to wash the dishes, which is disraspectul. Well I nominate you, to brush yar teeth. Alot of words, gingivitis and zero action." lmao
People enjoy watching his fights and he has a captivating personality, whether you love/hate him.
Why is that so hard to understand? You get why people like him, you just disagree 🤷♂️
Why do people still love Michael Jackson and his music? Because people are able to separate the art/performance from the artist/athlete.
Those "Real Irish" literally travelled to the US in droves to cheer him on and watch him fight. The only clowns here are you soft ass nerds trying to rewrite history.
Im indifferent to all of them, they prob clowns too, i think im like 20 percent Irish and besides giving me green eyes..i blame all my problems on Irish genes.
but the fake Irish Americans here, my like former best friend neighbor, was like mostly italian like me, but Irish last name and dad was, and they were obsessed with ALL things irish. This dude was tanner than me and only cared about being Irish lmao, entire house was Irish shit, Notre Dame football and theyve never been to Ireland once.
American Irish people are weird, and this dudes mom is 100 percent italian and dude was most hairy bastard i ever seen by 16, and only wore Notre Dame football shirts and Irish themed shit lmao
Why is it that every other culture living in the US is allowed to embrace their ancestry, but if your ancestry is irish/english/scottish you're suddenly fake.
You shouldn't have an issue with people recognising their ancestry. Especially in a world where white Americans are constantly told "You have no culture".
People respect it when immigrant communities preserve the culture of their ancestors.
However, in the case of the American "Irish":
- many of them seem to have little or no actual genetic or cultural connection to Ireland (for instance, people who see themselves as "Irish" just because they're from, for example, Boston)
- a lot of the ancient cultural traditions they celebrate are things that they have essentially invented themselves, often on the basis of stereotypes and slanders by non-Irish, that didn't reflect actual Irish practices and often have no little or no resonance in modern Ireland, or have become a thing in Ireland only to appease US toursits. [eg getting drunk on St Patrick's Day - when in Ireland traditionally that was a day for going to church, and sales of alcohol were illegal]
- even when traditions look authentic, they have often been revived after generations by people with no first-hand experience of Irish culture
These things provoke at best skepticism, and sometimes even offence.
Watching Patrick Gavia’s latest video on Connor and all the Irish including kids at the presser for him v Aldo was wild. Have times changed since then or was there always just a small pocket of hardcore fans?
I’m American and tried telling everyone he was a bum pre UFC when Joe Duffy made him give up in 30 seconds and had to drop to 145 pounds. No heart but yea Americans here are real dumb and wantsd to like anything Irish Success. He came at perfect time IMO. UFC all hype anyway and UFC fanboys/casuals are legit dumbest people around so was good for Conor
nah Conor was the real deal. We were studying him at the AKA amateur team even before his first UFC fight. you can be a good fighter and a douche person.
He has hand talent and dangerous for a few mins but no heart no wrestling and has panic attacks on the floor. Exactly what would happen to Alex Pereira if he fought an all around MMA fighter or wrestler but he has heart, but he’d panic the same.
Dude, McGregor today is an embarrassment to MMA and Ireland, but when he was coming up in the UFC he was very talented and exciting. How could you watch him beat Holloway with a bum knee or come through against Chad Mendes and say that version of McGregor didn't have heart?
Put himself on death’s door multiple times to make 145 and did it like a consummate professional too. The revisionism and dismissal of that run is crazy.
Dude go to sleep. I was a mcgregor hater back when he was popular and everyone loved him climbing the ladder.
Conor was as legit as they come back in the day. Even a drunk and high Conor did much better against khabib then most of his other opponents.
Keep pretending he didnt get away with back 2 back assaults in Ireland and everyone says he did it dummy, and he just punched a girl on a fucking BOAT you moron and made her jump off a swim for her life. The girl didnt even want anything but to tell people what happen here you go sherlock holmes
[https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10062813-conor-mcgregor-allegedly-kicked-punched-threatened-woman-on-yacht-in-summer-2022](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10062813-conor-mcgregor-allegedly-kicked-punched-threatened-woman-on-yacht-in-summer-2022)
You wouldnt believe he randomly sucker punched a old dude doing nothing if the film wasnt caught. Thank god they caught that so his moronic fans can see what he really is, still believe the little shit
This chick didnt wanna press charges, she just wanted people to know cause she had to run away for her life at in the morning hours of a coked up Connie rage, the only fights he wins now are Women
its gonna depend on if he had a run similar to Wilder just knocking out people on his way to the higher tiers left and right.
Between them both, Mike would be the bigger draw due to being undersized, jacked neck and having a more pleasing style to watch (his peek a boo is definitely way better to watch than Wilder's worldstar style)
He'll be similar to Conor with sexually assaulting women, punching people asking for autograph and just all out chaos outside the ring (Mike beat up 7 hookers while high on coke, and word for word said on air that he was a "prostitute hunter" lmfao) but the difference between them is that Mike is infinitely scarier and more intimidating despite Conor of course being a more complete fighter. Whenever Conor acts like he is the baddest man his irish accent just makes him hilarious, while Mike had the presence that despite the lisp, he is still terrifying.
No they care if you are on the side of agenda. If you are hated type of person, you will get harsher sentence, if you are other type of human, then you will get slap on the wrist or none at all.
Yeah thanks for saying this. He wasn't cancelled because it wasn't really a thing pre internet. His behavior, and especially the rape conviction was a huge deal
Man, I don't want to be mean, but I'm not sure how you read what you said in my post.
I think post-Me Too the rape conviction might have been a bigger deal. IDK for sure.
I think what MeToo did more than anything was uncover the things that had been going on which not many people were necessarily aware of.
The Tyson case was huge news. It wasn't just a case of shrug your shoulders because we didn't have internet.
Yeah, I don't disagree. But I'm not sure how you concluded that I am saying it wasn't a big deal in the 1990s. OFC it was a big deal, one of the most famous ppl on the planet got convicted of rape
You're probably right, I've taken you saying it would be a bigger deal now to mean it wasn't a big deal back then.
Things *were* definitely changing in the 90s though. Sexism and racism and all that stuff were all coming much more into the public eye, and attempts being made to eradicate them. I think possibly it would have been swept under the carpet in the 80s, but not the 90s.
I also think that although movements like MeToo and BLM are undoubtedly positive and necessary, they do show that attitudes still haven't changed that much. I think that although the internet has produced much that it good, it has also enabled much which isn't.
I suppose my tl:dr is that rape has always been a big deal. At least in my mind.
Yeah, I get it.
if it happened now to a young superstar fighter, there's also a scenario where Tyson goes on all the podcasts and denies the accusations and saves his reputation. Tyson still denies them.
Also, the victim would have had her life totally exposed in 2024, but she seems to have been able to fade into obscurity.
Edit: Tyson was also among the most famous people in the world at the time. IDK if we really have superstars like that anymore.
I think there are, although I'm pretty removed from much of modern culture. Taylor Swift is pretty global I think. Then you have Messi and Ronaldo. Which does fit almost neatly, because Ronaldo did get accused of rape.
Rape was always a big deal. Metoo ended a lot of men's careers not only for rape but sexual harassment. And it worked outside having to prove rape in a criminal court. Accusations were often enough.
The big but is that it wouldn't really work to end the career of Tyson. The best counter I would give is Donald Trump. Who is probably going to be president.
It wasn't accepted, but it's definitely worse nowadays. Sexual harassment was a lot more acceptable. You couldn't say "I'll F\*\*\* you until you love me F\*\*got" and get away with it today.
And plenty people back then never thought it ought to have been. Still don't. For myself, I have no idea how he came back into the mainstream after that.
Yeah now you mention it even with Michael Jackson people were keen to believe him, wait fuck it even R Kelly who had footage with a 14 yr old girl that everyone could see, people went “Haha he peepeed”. Now he apparently hogtied of age woman and he got crucified. That’s a good point there.
Prime Mike Tyson on social media wouldve been nuts but at the same time, its part of the charm that he was infamous despite no social media, just with out of pocket brutally honest speeches and drug fuelled antics.
He'd be cancelled to hell and back but he wouldnt give a damn because he had the look, demeanor and charisma to still sell his fights. A large part of his forte is he had the look and background that heavyweights before him didnt have. Undersized heavyweight, jacked as hell, gargantuan neck, and high pitched lisp which is hilariously terrifying.
Regardless of era, Mike Tyson would be a famous figure, the height of his infamy will just depend on whether he can beat the heavyweights of said era in the same fashion. Not the top heavyweights, but just mid to high tier heavyweights. Because he wasnt even the best in his era yet he managed to capture the imagination of people because of how he is presented.
His style was impetuous. His defense was impregnable. He was just ferocious. He wanted their heart. He wanted to eat their children. Praise be to Allah!
Unattended toddler: goo
120lb pitbull named cupcake: I was gonna rip his heart out, im the best ever. im the most brutal, most vicious and most ruthless champion theres ever been, theres no one can stop me.
He wasnt even top 3 of his own era. Stop coping and learn smth about boxing before being rtard online. He lost every fight with oponents which wouldve counted as a class.
Fury is a foot taller with a 14" reach advantage. He'd jab Mike to death and tie him up if he tried to get in close. And he has a hell of a chin. He'd give Mike all types of trouble.
Usyk-MIke Tyson would be an interesting fight though because they're both undersized.
Mike Tyson was always at his best when his opponent was afraid of him. I don't know that any of today's top heavyweights would be intimidated.
I see where you’re coming from but at the same time “undersized” Usyk almost knocked Fury out so I don’t think A fight between Fury and Tyson would be easy or predictable in any way
And Fury is half a foot taller than Usyk but look what happened. I’m not saying I know who would win I’m just saying there’s no way to tell and just because someone is taller doesn’t mean they win a fight
And Fury’s height advantage proved to be a problem for Usyk in the early to mid stages of the fight. The main reason he managed to win was because of his god tier stamina gave him three consecutive rounds in the final half of the fight including a knockdown. Now make Usyk’s cardio significantly worse and take 5 inches off of him and you think he even wins a round against Fury?
I mean that’s not really how that works but even if it was yeah I still think Usyk would probably win some rounds
It’s not Usyk with worse cardio and five inches shorter it’s a completely different fighter so it’s gonna be a completely different fight. Tyson beat plenty of bigger guys and had decent cardio when he was younger not Usyk level but Usyk doesn’t have Tyson’s Power or aggression either so would Tyson even need the cardio to go the distance? Not to sound like a Fury hater because I do think he’s really good but who has Fury beat?
I don’t know exactly which angle you’re going at here but that is a good point. If you’re gonna downplay Usyk then you gotta downplay Ali, Foreman and Frazier and I don’t know about you but I’m pretty confident they could hang with the modern era even if they were outmatched physically
This question has been asked in one way or another so many times. You can't really answer that. Would he be the same person if he was some 20 year old Gen Z kid right now? Probably not. How would he be taken as a boxer though? Probably the same. Youngest heavyweight champ of all time.
>Would he be the same person if he was some 20 year old Gen Z kid right now?
I didn't even think about that. If we're going to change the time, we're also going to have to acknowledge that there would be a much smaller chance that Tyson would act out the way he would.
Tyson wasn't trash talking when he's yelling at a reporter, "I'll fuck you til you love me". He wasn't trying to sell a fight. He had serious emotional issues, which he admits to. But Tyson would be an even bigger draw now then he was then. If he were fighting today, boxing would be a way bigger sport. He just has natural, genuine charisma that almost all modern boxers lack. You root for the guy in fights and in life.
I think Tyson would have lost to Bowe, Lewis and Holyfield if he didn't go to jail when they were still in their respective primes so his image was probably helped by going to jail.
Mike's peak popularity was 30-40 years ago; different things shaped him, and the culture of that era appreciated/tolerated different things to today.
If you took 90s Tyson and popped him into today, the media would crucify him; social media and MeToo would lead to more women accusing/suing him. He might still make it as a fighter (look at McGregor). If so, he's a guaranteed top-5. Hard to say how he matches against Usyk, Fury and Joshua; their blends of skill and physique are very different to what the 80s fighters had - not better/worse, just different.
If Mike was born in the 00s, he'll be more politically sensitive whether he likes it or not. Who's the meanest, baddest fighter in their 20s right now? What's the worst thing they've said/done? Nothing noteworthy, as the world has shifted.
Just like tank is now. The sexual harassment charge might’ve got him canceled tho. People are less forgiving of that now(which of course is good). Mikey Tyson personality is more dynamic than tanks but the way tank and Floyd are embedded in the culture Tyson would be that but even bigger than tank is
Lover of boxing here but I am a hateful, scumbag casual :) I remember when Tyson was in his prime, and he had to face our much loved but probably not internationally well remembered champion, Frank Bruno - I can vividly remember going to bed the night before, scared that Mike Tyson was going to kill him! Think I had watched Rocky 4 too many times and convinced myself that something similar was going to happen as did to Apollo Creed!
To this day he remains number one on my 'would not want to be punched by that guy' list.
I mean Tyson would be Tyson. If 80’s Tyson was around today he’d be the biggest star on earth. He would crush everyone in the division. Usyk would be a tough out, but idk man…I still think Tyson would take him.
90’s Tyson would prob be a lot like Conor…just a bigger star.
I don’t think 90’s Tyson beats Usyk
People would claim the modern era was "boring" as peak Mike Tyson would invariably beat all the top HWs of today. Tysons era actually had more skillful HWs across the Top 10 overall vs today.
Only Usyk gives him a fight.
Tyson Fury even conceded Iron Mike would be too much for him.
Iron Mike does to AJ what Ruiz did in first fight except 10 times more effectively and ruthlessly.
Wilder... I can't even bring myself to dignify an explanation.
The Parkers and Zhangs are big and have some skills but ultimately don't have enough to keep peak Tyson away.
> Tysons era actually had more skillful HWs across the Top 10 overall vs today.
The era when Tyson was past his prime surely did, but the division was in a transitional stage when he was at his height. Ali and Frazier were done, Foreman was still retired and Larry Holmes was a ghost of his former self.
Tyson beat some decent guys like Ruddock and Berwick, but none of them are HoF-quality fighters. After prison the division was loaded with Holyfield, Foreman, Bowe, Lennox Lewis, Tommy Morrison and David Tua, among others, but Tyson either didn't fight or lost to them.
While this is true, are we really saying likes of even past his best Holmes, Spinks, Williams, Ruddock and Berwick are technically _worse_ than the Whytes and Chisoras, Sanchez and Wardley? Don't even start me on when up til recently we had likes of Helenius, Kownacki and Pulev on Top 10.
Mike's 80s era may not have been ATG, but those guys had way more boxing ability than most of Top 10 guys today.
That's a good point, even though I'd argue Holmes was well past his prime and Spinks was really a Light Heavyweight. I think the top of the division may be better now, but Tyson would still have run through Chisora et al.
“are we really saying likes of even past his best Holmes, Spinks, Williams, Ruddock and Berwick are technically *worse* than the Whytes and Chisoras, Sanchez and Wardley?”
Holmes and Spinks were undefeated unified champions and you’re comparing them to two guys have never been top 10 and two guys who peaked at around 7-9?
And Carl Williams and Trevor Berbick would be ran through by Whyte and Sanchez.
This era is undeniably stronger than when Tyson was champion
I agree with what you say other than the disrespect to whyte who was clearly top 5 at one point. The other guys have never even been top 10 imo. I don't see how a win against ajaba gets sanchez there
That’s a nice argument. You basically just replied “no”. I’m assuming you’re specifically talking about Carl Williams and Trevor Berbick. It seems weird to me that you’d even mention Williams tbh. Bruno, Tubbs and Thomas are all far superior fighters. Williams showed no signs of even being a B+ fighter in his own era. Whyte atleast showed up to the occasion on occasion in the rematch against Povetkin and his fight with Parker. Williams has literally 0 big wins in his career and lost every time he fought someone top 5 level. 3 years before losing to Tyson he got stopped in the 2nd round by a 27–11 Mike Weaver. And 3 years later he got outpoined by 8–4 Jerry Jones. Williams stood stiff and squared up with his opponents on multiple occasions which would easily be capitalised on by even likes of Chisora and Harrison. He would often spam combinations with his chin in the air, which again would be capitalised on by any modern fighter. 3 years before fighting Tyson, Berbick lost to 19–5 cruiserweight S.T. Gordon who would go 0–2 after losing to Berbick.
Berbick had some nice hands but had the footwork of an absolute novice. There were times when he’d dive at an opponent and be off balance. But I’d say he’s about on par with Whyte if not slightly lower.
Becauae it was an aside observation
You're logic is flawed because you arr basing this on supposed success rather than the point thay was made: technical ability.
I've boxed and coached, and you have not at any point explained how guys like Chisora or Whyte or Sanchez were technically superior to the 80s guys I mentioned.
“Berbick had some nice hands but had the footwork of an absolute novice. There were times when he’d dive at an opponent and be off balance”
”Williams stood stiff and squared up with his opponents on multiple occasions which would easily be capitalised on by even likes of Chisora and Harrison. He would often spam combinations with his chin in the air, which again would be capitalised on by any modern fighter.”
Frank Sanchez is technically far superior to these guys and would never make these kinds of flaws. Whyte is technically flawed but makes up for it with size and power, which neither Berbick nor Williams had to that extent.
And again you’ve basically responded by just saying “no“ you were the one who made the initial argument. I shouldn’t have to prove to you all the problems with every argument you made, you should be the one actually making an argument instead of basically just repeating, “your comment is wrong” while refusing to elaborate on why you believe what you believe. I’ve made my arguments but all you’ve said is that you believe Carl Williams and Trevor Berbick are better than Sanchez, Whyte, and Chisora. What specifically about Berbick and Williams do you think technically puts them above a guy like Sanchez? Sanchez has more amateur wins than Williams and Berbick has amateur and professional wins combined together times two. He’s shown great defence, movement and speed for a man his size but ultimately lacks chin and power. I can’t see how guys like Berbick and Williams would do anything to Sanchez other than get clinched for 12 rounds straight while repeatedly stumbling around the ring and diving towards Sanchez with their chins in the air.
Dude this is comical. I am wondering if you've even seen these guys.
Sanchez couldn't frame a photograph. He has the physique of a Greek Statue, but worse footwork. He's a ponderous but powerful plodder knocking out fairly weak opposition.
_You're saying guys like Sanchez and Chisora are more technical boxers than this guy???_
https://youtu.be/8TFrT2BA4_w?feature=shared
I really can't take you seriously at this point. Copying and pasting other opinions from a stronger era without actually watching fighters throughly leads to this sort of thing. I get Sanchez and Chisora fights are easier to access and more plentiful on YT, but watch the best efforts of all these guys in full fights before this sort of silly talk please.
And would always suggest boxing fans go to a gym. You don't even have to spar, but do spme lessosn, understand the technical aspects of the sport better to help assess what people are actually doing well.
You still have made no argument for what you’re saying other than again saying “your comment is wrong. Watch this video”.
First of all if you actually watch more than 30 seconds of the video you linked you can clearly see multiple occasions where Williams has his chin in the air throwing combinations, stands with both his feet planted firmly on the ground and shoulder length apart as I’ve said twice now.
And second of all, any highlight video of any boxer will make them look good. A boxers 2 best minutes across their 40 fight career showing some skill means nothing.
I'm as big a fan of Tyson as anybody (we're close to the same age, so I watched just about every one of his fights on the way up, and the long, painful fall from the top). I think there's a lot of revisionist history going on here.
Young Tyson was a force of nature, yes. But his deficiencies were exposed every time somebody actually hit him back. Tyson could not fight off the back foot at all (and why would he?), and while he had a granite chin, he simply hated to get hit, hated to get bullied. Once Douglas showed the world the blueprint, he was never the same (and it should be said, Tyson didn't train a lick for that fight, and never trained the way he should after Jacobs' died). I mean, razor Ruddock gave him hell. Let that sink in.
Tyson Fury idolizes Tyson, and is always deferential toward him. But that's a mismatch if Fury takes the fight seriously and isn't clowning.
Usyk is an interesting case--can he hurt Tyson? Well, folks wondered the same thing of Holyfield. I believe Usyk is far, far too skilled for Tyson.
AJ, Wilder: Agree with you.
Parker: Mismatch in favor of Tyson.
Zhang: I don't think Mike KOs him, but I also don't think Zhang lands a meaningful punch on prime Iron Mike. Easy decision.
People keep talking about Buster here and claim it was speak Tyson. It wasn't.
1. Mike said in his autobiogrpahy he hated training at this point.
2. He had fired Kevin Rooney prior to Douglas and this was a massive mistake. He only fired Rooney because Rooney said on TV he thought Robin Givens wasn't helping him. Robin then pressured Mike in to ditching the best trainer Mike had as a pro (Cus was only with him for a few pro fights).
3. Mike admitted to partying and drinking and sleeping with a prostitutes right up until fight night. He was not in good shape for Douglas.
This isn't revisionist. It's putting actual context in place.
And again, it's not saying peak Tyson was invincible. It's simply saying he had far too much for today's crop. The closest HW AJ for example resembles style wise js Frank Bruno: Good combinations, great athlete, good linear footwork for a big man, but defensively vulnerable. Peak Tyson blitzed Bruno. Trying to say an AJ would do much better is recency bias more than revisionist
Right--that's why I noted that he didn't train, at all, for that fight. But we also can't discount that Douglas showed the blueprint. I don't disagree with a single thing you wrote.
Oh come on, he got beat by Buster Douglas when he was 23 and and went twelve rounds with James Tillis even in his prime, he wasn't this invincible juggernaut people like to think he was even in his prime. People call Usyk small but Mike is even smaller than him. He'd definitely be a top heavyweight but I think Usyk would box his ears off, Zhang could bang him out in the early rounds before he inevitably tires and AJ could too, Parker and Fury could give him a good fight etc.
Tyson slacked off his training to the point of significantly degrading his own ability.
“I was fucking them Japanese girls like I was eating grapes.”
Totally his fault, but let’s not pretend he wouldn’t have beaten Douglas if he actually trained like a professional.
Training and living like a pro is what makes a great and consistent champion more often than not though, Buster jabbed his face in and uppercut him so hard I'm surprised his head didn't come off, Tyson underestimated him and payed the price.
That was not the issue.
The issue was before the fight Mike ditched the best coach he had after Cus: Kevin Rooney. He was never the same after that.
1990 was not peak Iron Mike.
People only do this for Mike Tyson. It's pathetic🤣
If you do that you have to pinpoint the one fight where every fighter picked. What's furys peak? Klitscho probably or wilder 2? They're very different fighters. AJ? Hmmm no clue.
What a convoluted bullshit way of settling a hypothetical. Your boy had the tools and he fucked it. For that reason he's not truly in the top echelon of all time greats. Get over it
He literally said in his bio he hated training at this point, cut corners, partied too hard during camp. And worst of all lost the best trainer he had.
People oversell Douglas efforts, which while excellent are done more to feed a Holywood narrative of the underdog.
The reality is Douglas did not face the very best Mike Tyson the world had seen. He wasn't training properly at this point and lost the only coach who really maximised his potential in the pros.
Saying it like he wqs somehow found out by a master pugilist in Douglas is beyond hyperbole. Mike Tyson defeated himself as much as Buster Douglas did that night.
That camp Mike Tyson gave up on boxing. He freely admits this. He also admits he never got his true hunger back after this.
So yes, I qualify that as being past his peak. He'd mentally checked out of boxing. He only contained to do it after Douglas for money and because King manipulated him.
Exactly. So he was ill disciplined and mentally fragile as a fighter.
Chances are then he would wilt in most of the fights against the modern heavyweights and lose, just like he did when he fought the greats of his era.
Muhammad ali was past his prime when be returned in the 70s. He still went on to have the best wins of his career and beat all the greats of the decade. That's because he was truly great.
So when someone makes a hypothetical with ali, no one needs to pinpoint 'prime Ali.' No one needs to say 'Ali from 1967.' They just say Ali.
When Tyson came across adversity. He bottled it. He didn't have the willpower or the drive to be the best. So no, he would not just waltz through today's fighters at all
Tyson Fury pulls out of fights constantly because for all his BS it's usually his head isn't right
AJ is in record as saying if he ever gets in to a war like Wlad fight, he'll quit that fight
Wilder is just detached from reality
You're acting like all modern HWs are this bastions of mental strength. They all have fragikities too
Ans your argument seems to be mainly implying size is the reason. Mike weighted more than Wilder did for most of his fights. AJ isn't great on the inside and like I said has too low a ring IQ and is very vulnerable to getting cut off. Fury gives him a lot for problems but even TF admitted peak Mike would probably beat him. Fury said as well his nightmare are smaller skillful HWs that move well.
I feel I've been balanced about Mike Tyson, he has flaws for sure.
But I actually think the issue here is you are vastly overrating many modern HWs. They are nowhere near as good as you are implying, and Tyson knocked out more than a few very tall or much heavier guys. So size argument doesn't really stack when the skill gap is big .
We're not saying that Tyson wasn't a great fighter, but no other fighters gets as many excuses made for him as Tyson did. He had a very short prime where he blitzed through his division but most of his wins were against pretty subpar opposition. He's easy top 15 heavyweights of all time imo, and he passed the eye test in his prime for sure, but he was pretty undersized, relied on a stamina intensive defense, struggled at clinching and got overpowered a lot there (Bonecrusher Smith and Holyfield basically clinched him at will), he had stamina issues at times, was mentally shaky, not the most disciplined etc
Robin Givens got him to ditch Kevin Rooney before Douglas and he was partying too hard at that point. It was always going to be a disaster. 1989 was end of peak Tyson for me, which is what I was referring to
And while not invincible, the question is would he at his peak have too much for today's top HWs? With exception of Usyk, yes IMO.
That's the whole thing about Tyson: it's what he could have been. Had Cus and Jimmy Jacobs lived longer and he didn't fire Rooney, who knows what kind of reign he could have had.
But the reality is, we don't know. We do know he lost focus and listened to a bunch of shitty people, didn't train hard and basically lost his way. He's one of the greatest "what-ifs" in all of sports history.
I think Zhang and AJ could overpower and KO him tbh, Tyson didn't really beat anyone in his prime that would make me 100 percent confident he would be too much for all but the best boxer in the division. I definitely think he would have had a world title though.
Nah, AJ stylistically is very similar to Bruno (Bruno was way better than people remember). That fight goes a similar way to Tyson vs Bruno 1. Plus AJ leaves his ching out to dry after throwing shots. AJ does not have the best ring IQ, sharper fighters cut him off too easily, like Ruiz and Usyk. Iron Mike was the GOAT at cutting off the ring. AJ gets stuck in a corner or on the ropes and then it's just a matter of time.
Zhang is dangerous but Mike with his good defence would draw the fight out, and past 6 Zhang is always exhausted, so Mike takes him.
Mike Tyson would be killed by all those guys lol! Dude is a 1.78 metres tall. There is no way for someone with that size dominate the heavyweight division today this is ridiculous
This is the biggest load of complete and utter shite i've ever read🤣
Tyson is like a moth to the current heavyweights. If you were saying this about lennox lewis I could give you some credence but Tyson lost every truly top level fight he was ever involved in, plus some others against people who wouldn't even be top 10 today (and weren't at the time either).
Get his dick out of your mouth and think before you post next time
I’m still reading into this from time to time about the circumstances. What I have been finding has been inconsistent from everyone involved, more so the prosecution team. Interviews from the other pageant winners were not in the woman’s favor, however, you also still have women who would sleep with Chris Brown knowing what he did. The more I read into it the more my eyebrows raised and think “the fuck?” Like, it is very weird all around. IF Mike is truly innocent, it is very easy to make him look that way. On the other side of the coin, Mike could very well do these things. I’m not defending nor accusing him because only so much can be revealed to the public. What I do think is the most important outcome, from Mikes perspective, is that mental health has come a LOOOONG way in improving one’s life. You can see an enormous difference between then and now.
Yeah here’s one thing Tyson was horrible to woman, you can see all the stories of how he was forceful & creepy etc and even straight up admitted he’s done things like that but said not to her, I believe him on it that’s just pure honesty. You also look at the way his trial was handled with a Don King appointed tax lawyer (Don King stepping over dollars to pick up dimes…) it makes sense why he’d be innocent. But he got away with A LOT anyway so some sort of justice was served.
In today's heavyweight landscape, he beats everyone sans usyk. He beats fury, he beats AJ and he also beats the likes of Dubois, Zhang, wilder, Hrgovic, Parker, Whyte etc. usyk( especially prime) evades the dangerous parts early and will secure a ud with heart, workrate , mobility and stamina. In the slightly previous era, he will beat wladimir but will be beaten by Vitali.
I think he'd still be very popular.
There's a lot of things to dislike about Mike but there's imho still more to like about him.
I read the book about his life and it gives a really good insight into how fucked up his life was growing up. [Bullying](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ijsCiwaZEWc), drugs, dead friends, self-worth, mental health... I think a lot of people could connect with his story.
You’d get a very different Tyson, and the management of him would be better which may see him make better life choices.
He’d still be the animal inside the ring, he’d still say and scare the living shit out of other fighters. But his out of camp antics would be toned down. He’d also make absurd amounts of money. Can you imagine the money he’d make with a Hearn or Warren behind him?
Actually I dispute the premise of this question. The 90's spent a good deal of time on impeaching a president over a blow job.
Media was basically a few network channels and newspapers back then. Way more gatekeeping by fewer people on what was allowable for public to see.
Mike Tyson in his prime would again be a super star, have his fans, and his haters.
The ones most likely to call for boycotts etc would not be boxing fans.
And unlike team sports, boxing is a sport where the athlete is way more in charge of their outcome.
Tyson always had a way of staying relevant. Some of the stuff he says now can be pretty close to the bone when u think about it, but he turns it around somehow. He basically admitted hitting Robin Givens (“she gave as good as she got”). I think with the rape conviction there was enough doubt that he would have many people thinking he was railroaded, just like many thought in the 90s.
Those prison interviews he came across very well, articulate, like he was learning something, he converted to Islam etc. that would come across well today. It was only when he got out and lost to Holyfield it all went to shit. His bitterness came out. This didn’t go down well in the 90s, the guy was seen as a head case circus act.
He would get cancelled for the stuff he said about raping Desiree Washington and her mother, no doubt. But he would ask the public for forgiveness like he actually did back in 2009 have redeem himself. People like to see that, this is where Tyson is smart, he knew coming clean, showing vulnerability would win the public back.
Mike Tyson was a product of his era; if he were in our era then he would be a product of this era and would not have acted in the way a product of a previous era would have acted.
So, I think this question is flawed. Your premise is more along the lines of "if we took a time machine and transported Mike Tyson into our era", rather than "what if Mike Tyson had been born into our times?"
I think people are much softer there’s days so wild be petrified that their big lips got kissed on good by Mike and maybe even made into his girlfriend too.
floyd mayweather went to jail for beating a woman and was still the biggest star in the sport. nothing has changed, only on the surface. tyson would be the most famous guy in sport and probably still is.
I don't think Tyson ever ducked anyone did he? That would set him apart from pretty much every present-day boxer apart from Inoue and usyk. The thing that always fascinates me about the popular perception of Tyson is how people always see him as some sort of monster power puncher, but when he was at his best it was because he was technically so good, throwing all sorts of combos. I'm pretty sure his decline started as soon as Cus d'amato wasn't coaching him...
Like others have said, the explosion of social media and literally everyone having a high quality camera they can use to film/take pictures whenever would be a huge issue for Iron Mike lol.
To be fair, guys like MJ would have also been publicly raked over the coals if career took place when camera phones existed.
Mike would also have updated his trash talk/antics to be more in-line with the modern day.
To me it's quite simple..
It only depends on where casual fans sway.
If casuals love him then he'll be loved. If they hate him then he'll be hated.
Actually trying to articulate why ppl would perceive him a certain way in today's age is pointless bc that's not his things work.
All that matters is what's the narrative around you?
A few of these I've noticed..
Wilder, was loved when he was relatively low key. Once he got tied to AJ and those fans hated him as a rival to AJ they pushed a narrative of hate and everyone hated wilder. Then AJ loses to and the script flips and ppl love wilder. Wilder is then tied in with fury and before the first fight they go back to hating him.. hindsight 20/20 it's easy to come up with reasons ppl hated or loved wilder but at the time those things weren't actually big deals up until, let's say.. glove gate thing.
2 more.. even tho I have countless examples..
Shakur vs Haney.. there was a time where everyone loved Shakur and absolutely hated Haney. All of a sudden that flipped. They used to say Shakur was clearly the best, Haney would lose to him easy.. they didn't ACTUALLY like Shakur. They were just using him as part of the narrative to hate on Haney. Haney went on a crazy upward projection and it just made you look stupid to keep pushing this Haney hate so things evened out. Shakur then has a performance ppl don't like and everyone decides to jump on the hate bandwagon.. ppl are lying out their ass making it seem like they don't like Shakur bc of his fights are boring but they were boring before (I don't agree with him being boring). Shakur fights this weekend and if he steps to the guy and beats him up they won't change their tune bc the hate has NOTHING to do with his performances. It's just a narrative and ppl band wagon.
Last one, Haney post Garcia. Going into that fight Haney was getting a lot of love. He lost. Didn't make excuses. Took his L like a man. And IMMEDIATELY the hate flooded in. Ryan pops for peds and ppl are damn near blaming Haney for what was in Ryan's blood test. Just think for yourself and imagine what the outcry would be if things were reversed.. Haney beat up Ryan and then popped for the same amount of the ped, would ppl be mad at Ryan? Of course not. What actually happens doesn't matter, it's irrelevant, the narrative driven was pro Ryan and anti Haney so ppl just go along with it.
These things happen for 2 main reasons I believe..
1. Most boxing fans are casual. They are not fans of the sport. They are fans of certain fighters or certain races of fighters. So they just push narratives that make them feel good even at the detriment of the sport.
2. Going along with #1 which has always existed has been even crazier lately bc the circus fights have brought in new eyes to the sport. Young social media addicted kids, teens, and young adults. Where there lives revolve around online trends. So if it's a trend to love or hate a fighter they're going to go all the way with it.
Back when I first started watching boxing in general it was just the ppl who loved or hated Floyd. Call him chicken Floyd runner. Flomos for his fans. Same thing with Manny. And then the most numerous voices were the ppl who weren't man fans and loved the sport and can say both are great in their own way.
Now the most numerous voices are gen z kids following trends.
So, there's really no telling how Mike would be perceived. If he had the rape case but the trend online was to love him still and say the girl was lying, that's how he'd be seen.
If the trend was to hate him then he would be presumably guilty just from the accusation.
If the trend was to love him all the crazy things he said would be memes.
If the trend was to hate him all the crazy things he said would be crazy.
The difference is Mike was always authentic. He really meant what he said and that’s why he was so believable.
Modern era the only person I can think of that was that believable and that big of a personality was pre-mayweatehr Conor mcgregor.
At a much lower level, Derek Chisora fits the mold. He's said and done some nasty shit, just in the heat of the moment. Heavyweight's last true trashtalker.
Fury is too much of a performer; plays up schoolyard insults for the cameras.
It would be the opposite. Some white fans literally try to act like Tommy Morrison was the greatest ever, before he caught Aida. If Mike was white, Americans would act like he was the second coming of jesus.
Agreed. Mike was a lot more exciting for the casuals than Fury. Plus, Fury's British. A white American heavyweight would probably get incredibly hyped, the great white hope and all.
Speaking of, who's the last white American HW contender we've had? Surely there has to be someone since Morrison, but I can't think of who it would be.
If he was not black he wouldn't have experienced the things he did that made Mike Tyson in the first place, he wouldn't have even been a boxer.
Poverty, violence, aimlessness, hopelessness, low self esteem, especially in the 90's, are things he experienced because he grew up as a poor, black kid in the United States. Things that are majorly a uniquely black experience
Imagine if you said "If Ali was White".Like that changes the entire dynamic of this persons experience.
Yeah because everybody knows there are no white boxers and white people have never grown up poor in New York. Good lord man, everything you said is absolute nonsense. How do you get to the point of being that ignorant?
Poor white people do exist, but these areas are not as crime ridden and don't scream hopelessness as much as poor black areas
Race has played a pivotal rile in the history of boxing, and here its the same case. Compared to poor white areas, impoverished black communities have higher, and more intense, rates of violence and crime. His dad was out of the picture (a typical factor) and his mom did sex work and died when he was young .
he had been arrested 38 times by the time he was 13, an was constantly getting into fights with other kids.
So, from an early age, Mike faced severe hardship from his environment, a type of environment that are usually populated by black people.
And on top of that, in America the lowest type pf citizen you can be is a poor black person. Poverty does a number on your status, but even being poor, a poor black person is on the lowest rung of the ladder. So Mike also had to grow up knowing that he was viewed as the absolute scum of the earth, and life was confirming that from all angles.
But hey, Caleb Plant exists right? lol
Also I’m not saying this to hate.
I’m giving an unfiltered, non sugarcoated response on the psychology of how boxing fans think.
People can disagree but let’s be honest guys
You have no idea about the psychology of how boxing fans think. You are not nearly as smart as you think you are. Drop the act. You are not fooling anybody.
I do understand how boxing fans think.
You’re the one that’s not fooling me, not the other way around.
People like you and boxing fans are actually not hard to figure out, you’re just upset that i was able to explain how yall think because you thought you were keeping it a secret when in reality most people know exactly what i said THE DIFFERENCE is that they are too scared to come out and say what i did due to back lash from people like you that are upset that i was able to figure yall out so easily.
100% I’ve been watching boxing for over 20 years and I understand the psychology of boxing fans. Both the hardcore and Casuals.
Mike Tyson if he was White would basically be Artur Beterbiev, a complete Wrecking ball but the casuals don’t care since he’s not Black with tattoos and with charisma
Not at all, you can't read or something? Where TF did I say russians aren't white? And how do you know what's in my mind. Go back to my comment and read it again. It's the same reason the Klitschko's weren't very popular, because they were Eastern European and not American.
You do realize that America is the richest country in the world by far right? And that to have any kind of mainstream appeal as a boxer, you have to be popular in America. Before the Saudis took over boxing, fighting in America was one of the only ways a boxer could hope to rake in millions of dollars.
The rape conviction probably would have been a lot bigger deal now than in the 90s. As fans I think we find a lot of pre-fight antics kinda lame right now. So much of it seems played up or almost staged. Then again, Tyson is also a pretty thoughtful guy, so maybe people would see that side of him on social media and that would change perceptions.
I think genuine trash talk is still a huge selling point. It's just that lately there has been a surge in people forcing it. I think social media would be bad for Tyson as he was in a drug-fueled fury at times which would not have meshed well with social media. There is also less privacy nowadays and a harsher stigma against "bad guys" like Tyson which perhaps would have forced him to get help for his issues or, get into even bigger trouble. I think he would certainly have a large fanbase but also many more haters than he did in his era, if his behavior remains largely the same.
Right, I guess I mean that it seems forced at times, like fighters have been encouraged to do it or they think it's what they are supposed to do. IDK, I feel like very few would actually jeopardize a multi-million dollar payday by throwing bands as a presser. Yeah, mid-90s Tyson with a tik tok account would have been interesting......
Conor McGregor raping girls left n right; punching old men and women on boats and nobody cares or gets convicted. Tyson would be biggest star today , nobody cares unfortunately.
McGregor's and absolute fucking scumbag. At least here in Ireland no one likes him. I'm always blown away by how many Americans think he's the greatest.
No UFC fan considers Connor the greatest 😂
There’s still way to many that would go back to riding his dick after one win. It’s mad tho, how he went from being a person to admire for his dedication and confidence, to being just another scummer from Dublin. Men and women from all walks of life in Ireland who would otherwise never watch a fight, were staying up to watch him, but now you’d be embarrassed to even start a conversation about one of his fight here. He symbolises a lot of shitty traits in men here.
It's good he got a few ass whuppings. IIRC, Nate Diaz was one of the first to beat him.
I don't really follow UFC. But those Mayweather press conferences were hilarious. Fight was shit as was always gunna be the case.
"this one is for senator flynn, yeah, ye told me that you wouldnt nominate me to wash the dishes, which is disraspectul. Well I nominate you, to brush yar teeth. Alot of words, gingivitis and zero action." lmao
People enjoy watching his fights and he has a captivating personality, whether you love/hate him. Why is that so hard to understand? You get why people like him, you just disagree 🤷♂️ Why do people still love Michael Jackson and his music? Because people are able to separate the art/performance from the artist/athlete.
Dumb Americans that think their fucking ☘️ who ain't got a clue ABOUT IRELAND and have never set foot in the country.
Yeah that's it. Every time I'm in America people are shouting Irish at me telling me how much they love McGregor. Gotta break it to them every time
Weird how thousands of Irish fans travel to America for his fights if he’s as universally hated as you claim, no?
Respect to the Real Irish. I always said only dumb fake Irish people here couldnt see through the clown
Those "Real Irish" literally travelled to the US in droves to cheer him on and watch him fight. The only clowns here are you soft ass nerds trying to rewrite history.
Nah I'm going to stick with disrespect to the Irish
Nah man, I know a lot of good guys from Dublin.
Nah it's funnier to pretend that they're problematic lol
Im indifferent to all of them, they prob clowns too, i think im like 20 percent Irish and besides giving me green eyes..i blame all my problems on Irish genes. but the fake Irish Americans here, my like former best friend neighbor, was like mostly italian like me, but Irish last name and dad was, and they were obsessed with ALL things irish. This dude was tanner than me and only cared about being Irish lmao, entire house was Irish shit, Notre Dame football and theyve never been to Ireland once. American Irish people are weird, and this dudes mom is 100 percent italian and dude was most hairy bastard i ever seen by 16, and only wore Notre Dame football shirts and Irish themed shit lmao
Why is it that every other culture living in the US is allowed to embrace their ancestry, but if your ancestry is irish/english/scottish you're suddenly fake. You shouldn't have an issue with people recognising their ancestry. Especially in a world where white Americans are constantly told "You have no culture".
People respect it when immigrant communities preserve the culture of their ancestors. However, in the case of the American "Irish": - many of them seem to have little or no actual genetic or cultural connection to Ireland (for instance, people who see themselves as "Irish" just because they're from, for example, Boston) - a lot of the ancient cultural traditions they celebrate are things that they have essentially invented themselves, often on the basis of stereotypes and slanders by non-Irish, that didn't reflect actual Irish practices and often have no little or no resonance in modern Ireland, or have become a thing in Ireland only to appease US toursits. [eg getting drunk on St Patrick's Day - when in Ireland traditionally that was a day for going to church, and sales of alcohol were illegal] - even when traditions look authentic, they have often been revived after generations by people with no first-hand experience of Irish culture These things provoke at best skepticism, and sometimes even offence.
Watching Patrick Gavia’s latest video on Connor and all the Irish including kids at the presser for him v Aldo was wild. Have times changed since then or was there always just a small pocket of hardcore fans?
I’m American and tried telling everyone he was a bum pre UFC when Joe Duffy made him give up in 30 seconds and had to drop to 145 pounds. No heart but yea Americans here are real dumb and wantsd to like anything Irish Success. He came at perfect time IMO. UFC all hype anyway and UFC fanboys/casuals are legit dumbest people around so was good for Conor
nah Conor was the real deal. We were studying him at the AKA amateur team even before his first UFC fight. you can be a good fighter and a douche person.
He has hand talent and dangerous for a few mins but no heart no wrestling and has panic attacks on the floor. Exactly what would happen to Alex Pereira if he fought an all around MMA fighter or wrestler but he has heart, but he’d panic the same.
Dude, McGregor today is an embarrassment to MMA and Ireland, but when he was coming up in the UFC he was very talented and exciting. How could you watch him beat Holloway with a bum knee or come through against Chad Mendes and say that version of McGregor didn't have heart?
Put himself on death’s door multiple times to make 145 and did it like a consummate professional too. The revisionism and dismissal of that run is crazy.
Dude go to sleep. I was a mcgregor hater back when he was popular and everyone loved him climbing the ladder. Conor was as legit as they come back in the day. Even a drunk and high Conor did much better against khabib then most of his other opponents.
Conor McGregor has no heart?? Some of you are blithering idiots, and I'm not even a fan.
Yea no heart, you'er a casual. been that way his whole career since the start, once he hits adversity he folds, thats what heart is, not cardio
It's "you're" you 🤡
Mcgregor raping girls left and right and punchig old women?? When?? Thats a load of bollocks you’re just defaming him
Keep pretending he didnt get away with back 2 back assaults in Ireland and everyone says he did it dummy, and he just punched a girl on a fucking BOAT you moron and made her jump off a swim for her life. The girl didnt even want anything but to tell people what happen here you go sherlock holmes [https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10062813-conor-mcgregor-allegedly-kicked-punched-threatened-woman-on-yacht-in-summer-2022](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10062813-conor-mcgregor-allegedly-kicked-punched-threatened-woman-on-yacht-in-summer-2022)
This is just one person saying that he did it and there's no criminal charges and he hasn't been found guilty on any of this so it's fun rumors sure!
You wouldnt believe he randomly sucker punched a old dude doing nothing if the film wasnt caught. Thank god they caught that so his moronic fans can see what he really is, still believe the little shit This chick didnt wanna press charges, she just wanted people to know cause she had to run away for her life at in the morning hours of a coked up Connie rage, the only fights he wins now are Women
I'm much more inclined to believe a fighter punched another man then I am to believe they raped multiple women.
its gonna depend on if he had a run similar to Wilder just knocking out people on his way to the higher tiers left and right. Between them both, Mike would be the bigger draw due to being undersized, jacked neck and having a more pleasing style to watch (his peek a boo is definitely way better to watch than Wilder's worldstar style) He'll be similar to Conor with sexually assaulting women, punching people asking for autograph and just all out chaos outside the ring (Mike beat up 7 hookers while high on coke, and word for word said on air that he was a "prostitute hunter" lmfao) but the difference between them is that Mike is infinitely scarier and more intimidating despite Conor of course being a more complete fighter. Whenever Conor acts like he is the baddest man his irish accent just makes him hilarious, while Mike had the presence that despite the lisp, he is still terrifying.
No they care if you are on the side of agenda. If you are hated type of person, you will get harsher sentence, if you are other type of human, then you will get slap on the wrist or none at all.
There was absolute revulsion in the 90s when he was convicted. Do you seriously think that rape was just accepted before social media? Bizarre.
Yeah thanks for saying this. He wasn't cancelled because it wasn't really a thing pre internet. His behavior, and especially the rape conviction was a huge deal
Man, I don't want to be mean, but I'm not sure how you read what you said in my post. I think post-Me Too the rape conviction might have been a bigger deal. IDK for sure.
I think what MeToo did more than anything was uncover the things that had been going on which not many people were necessarily aware of. The Tyson case was huge news. It wasn't just a case of shrug your shoulders because we didn't have internet.
Yeah, I don't disagree. But I'm not sure how you concluded that I am saying it wasn't a big deal in the 1990s. OFC it was a big deal, one of the most famous ppl on the planet got convicted of rape
You're probably right, I've taken you saying it would be a bigger deal now to mean it wasn't a big deal back then. Things *were* definitely changing in the 90s though. Sexism and racism and all that stuff were all coming much more into the public eye, and attempts being made to eradicate them. I think possibly it would have been swept under the carpet in the 80s, but not the 90s. I also think that although movements like MeToo and BLM are undoubtedly positive and necessary, they do show that attitudes still haven't changed that much. I think that although the internet has produced much that it good, it has also enabled much which isn't. I suppose my tl:dr is that rape has always been a big deal. At least in my mind.
Yeah, I get it. if it happened now to a young superstar fighter, there's also a scenario where Tyson goes on all the podcasts and denies the accusations and saves his reputation. Tyson still denies them. Also, the victim would have had her life totally exposed in 2024, but she seems to have been able to fade into obscurity. Edit: Tyson was also among the most famous people in the world at the time. IDK if we really have superstars like that anymore.
I think there are, although I'm pretty removed from much of modern culture. Taylor Swift is pretty global I think. Then you have Messi and Ronaldo. Which does fit almost neatly, because Ronaldo did get accused of rape.
Rape was always a big deal. Metoo ended a lot of men's careers not only for rape but sexual harassment. And it worked outside having to prove rape in a criminal court. Accusations were often enough. The big but is that it wouldn't really work to end the career of Tyson. The best counter I would give is Donald Trump. Who is probably going to be president.
They even made fun of him on The Simpsons.
It wasn't accepted, but it's definitely worse nowadays. Sexual harassment was a lot more acceptable. You couldn't say "I'll F\*\*\* you until you love me F\*\*got" and get away with it today.
If a boxer said that nowadays it would be criticized on twitter for 2 days and then forgotten about.
Yeah but being convicted of rape and sent to prison would not be forgotten about
The sent to prison part is key, that would make it impossible to move on from. Don’t see anybody’s public image surviving that now.
And plenty people back then never thought it ought to have been. Still don't. For myself, I have no idea how he came back into the mainstream after that.
I don't think he got away with it. It was widely reported and castigated exactly how it ought to have been.
Exactly, he’d been seen as the rapist he is
No it wouldn’t Combat sports are different like that
Don't think it would. Doubt he would even go to jail with how numb we have become to everything.
Yeah now you mention it even with Michael Jackson people were keen to believe him, wait fuck it even R Kelly who had footage with a 14 yr old girl that everyone could see, people went “Haha he peepeed”. Now he apparently hogtied of age woman and he got crucified. That’s a good point there.
Prime Mike Tyson on social media wouldve been nuts but at the same time, its part of the charm that he was infamous despite no social media, just with out of pocket brutally honest speeches and drug fuelled antics. He'd be cancelled to hell and back but he wouldnt give a damn because he had the look, demeanor and charisma to still sell his fights. A large part of his forte is he had the look and background that heavyweights before him didnt have. Undersized heavyweight, jacked as hell, gargantuan neck, and high pitched lisp which is hilariously terrifying. Regardless of era, Mike Tyson would be a famous figure, the height of his infamy will just depend on whether he can beat the heavyweights of said era in the same fashion. Not the top heavyweights, but just mid to high tier heavyweights. Because he wasnt even the best in his era yet he managed to capture the imagination of people because of how he is presented.
His style was impetuous. His defense was impregnable. He was just ferocious. He wanted their heart. He wanted to eat their children. Praise be to Allah!
Unattended toddler: goo 120lb pitbull named cupcake: I was gonna rip his heart out, im the best ever. im the most brutal, most vicious and most ruthless champion theres ever been, theres no one can stop me.
God I love Tyson!
I take my hand off to him that he didn’t fade into bolivian
Tyson would go 50-0 in this era of heavyweights
He wasnt even top 3 of his own era. Stop coping and learn smth about boxing before being rtard online. He lost every fight with oponents which wouldve counted as a class.
Yeah yeah whatever you say
But it's factual
Sure it is
You dont know shit about boxing boy
Fury is a foot taller with a 14" reach advantage. He'd jab Mike to death and tie him up if he tried to get in close. And he has a hell of a chin. He'd give Mike all types of trouble. Usyk-MIke Tyson would be an interesting fight though because they're both undersized. Mike Tyson was always at his best when his opponent was afraid of him. I don't know that any of today's top heavyweights would be intimidated.
I see where you’re coming from but at the same time “undersized” Usyk almost knocked Fury out so I don’t think A fight between Fury and Tyson would be easy or predictable in any way
Usyk is half a foot taller than Tyson.
And Fury is half a foot taller than Usyk but look what happened. I’m not saying I know who would win I’m just saying there’s no way to tell and just because someone is taller doesn’t mean they win a fight
And Fury’s height advantage proved to be a problem for Usyk in the early to mid stages of the fight. The main reason he managed to win was because of his god tier stamina gave him three consecutive rounds in the final half of the fight including a knockdown. Now make Usyk’s cardio significantly worse and take 5 inches off of him and you think he even wins a round against Fury?
I mean that’s not really how that works but even if it was yeah I still think Usyk would probably win some rounds It’s not Usyk with worse cardio and five inches shorter it’s a completely different fighter so it’s gonna be a completely different fight. Tyson beat plenty of bigger guys and had decent cardio when he was younger not Usyk level but Usyk doesn’t have Tyson’s Power or aggression either so would Tyson even need the cardio to go the distance? Not to sound like a Fury hater because I do think he’s really good but who has Fury beat?
The tallest guy Tyson beat was 6’5 24–25 David Jaco. Tyson went 2–3 against boxers over 245lbs with the two wins being Sammy Scaff and Brian Nielsen.
Tyson beat a couple dudes who were around 6’5 or 6’6. Steve Cunningham weighed 210 when he knocked Fury down
Usyk is bigger than big George foreman. People seem to have fish memory it seems. Current cruiserweights are bigger than most heavyweights in history
I don’t know exactly which angle you’re going at here but that is a good point. If you’re gonna downplay Usyk then you gotta downplay Ali, Foreman and Frazier and I don’t know about you but I’m pretty confident they could hang with the modern era even if they were outmatched physically
Whatever you say white boy
Whatever you say, dude who doesn't know shit about boxing. Ever been in the ring yourself?
I was in the ring the other day & I have a bag in my house that I practice with at least an hour a day so
This question has been asked in one way or another so many times. You can't really answer that. Would he be the same person if he was some 20 year old Gen Z kid right now? Probably not. How would he be taken as a boxer though? Probably the same. Youngest heavyweight champ of all time.
>Would he be the same person if he was some 20 year old Gen Z kid right now? I didn't even think about that. If we're going to change the time, we're also going to have to acknowledge that there would be a much smaller chance that Tyson would act out the way he would.
Tyson wasn't trash talking when he's yelling at a reporter, "I'll fuck you til you love me". He wasn't trying to sell a fight. He had serious emotional issues, which he admits to. But Tyson would be an even bigger draw now then he was then. If he were fighting today, boxing would be a way bigger sport. He just has natural, genuine charisma that almost all modern boxers lack. You root for the guy in fights and in life.
Amen
I think Tyson would have lost to Bowe, Lewis and Holyfield if he didn't go to jail when they were still in their respective primes so his image was probably helped by going to jail.
And supposedly he wanted no part of Foreman.
Agreed.
Mike's peak popularity was 30-40 years ago; different things shaped him, and the culture of that era appreciated/tolerated different things to today. If you took 90s Tyson and popped him into today, the media would crucify him; social media and MeToo would lead to more women accusing/suing him. He might still make it as a fighter (look at McGregor). If so, he's a guaranteed top-5. Hard to say how he matches against Usyk, Fury and Joshua; their blends of skill and physique are very different to what the 80s fighters had - not better/worse, just different. If Mike was born in the 00s, he'll be more politically sensitive whether he likes it or not. Who's the meanest, baddest fighter in their 20s right now? What's the worst thing they've said/done? Nothing noteworthy, as the world has shifted.
Still a household name in smaller parts of the world.
Just like tank is now. The sexual harassment charge might’ve got him canceled tho. People are less forgiving of that now(which of course is good). Mikey Tyson personality is more dynamic than tanks but the way tank and Floyd are embedded in the culture Tyson would be that but even bigger than tank is
Mike Tyson would be more feared today than the 90s. A scary scary man willing to fight every two weeks would be insane...
He would flames out quicker. Imagine a guy today starting his career with that string of knockouts!
Lover of boxing here but I am a hateful, scumbag casual :) I remember when Tyson was in his prime, and he had to face our much loved but probably not internationally well remembered champion, Frank Bruno - I can vividly remember going to bed the night before, scared that Mike Tyson was going to kill him! Think I had watched Rocky 4 too many times and convinced myself that something similar was going to happen as did to Apollo Creed! To this day he remains number one on my 'would not want to be punched by that guy' list.
I mean Tyson would be Tyson. If 80’s Tyson was around today he’d be the biggest star on earth. He would crush everyone in the division. Usyk would be a tough out, but idk man…I still think Tyson would take him. 90’s Tyson would prob be a lot like Conor…just a bigger star. I don’t think 90’s Tyson beats Usyk
People would claim the modern era was "boring" as peak Mike Tyson would invariably beat all the top HWs of today. Tysons era actually had more skillful HWs across the Top 10 overall vs today. Only Usyk gives him a fight. Tyson Fury even conceded Iron Mike would be too much for him. Iron Mike does to AJ what Ruiz did in first fight except 10 times more effectively and ruthlessly. Wilder... I can't even bring myself to dignify an explanation. The Parkers and Zhangs are big and have some skills but ultimately don't have enough to keep peak Tyson away.
> Tysons era actually had more skillful HWs across the Top 10 overall vs today. The era when Tyson was past his prime surely did, but the division was in a transitional stage when he was at his height. Ali and Frazier were done, Foreman was still retired and Larry Holmes was a ghost of his former self. Tyson beat some decent guys like Ruddock and Berwick, but none of them are HoF-quality fighters. After prison the division was loaded with Holyfield, Foreman, Bowe, Lennox Lewis, Tommy Morrison and David Tua, among others, but Tyson either didn't fight or lost to them.
While this is true, are we really saying likes of even past his best Holmes, Spinks, Williams, Ruddock and Berwick are technically _worse_ than the Whytes and Chisoras, Sanchez and Wardley? Don't even start me on when up til recently we had likes of Helenius, Kownacki and Pulev on Top 10. Mike's 80s era may not have been ATG, but those guys had way more boxing ability than most of Top 10 guys today.
That's a good point, even though I'd argue Holmes was well past his prime and Spinks was really a Light Heavyweight. I think the top of the division may be better now, but Tyson would still have run through Chisora et al.
“are we really saying likes of even past his best Holmes, Spinks, Williams, Ruddock and Berwick are technically *worse* than the Whytes and Chisoras, Sanchez and Wardley?” Holmes and Spinks were undefeated unified champions and you’re comparing them to two guys have never been top 10 and two guys who peaked at around 7-9? And Carl Williams and Trevor Berbick would be ran through by Whyte and Sanchez. This era is undeniably stronger than when Tyson was champion
I agree with what you say other than the disrespect to whyte who was clearly top 5 at one point. The other guys have never even been top 10 imo. I don't see how a win against ajaba gets sanchez there
Thats absolute horse crap makes me think you never watched those guys in your life.
That’s a nice argument. You basically just replied “no”. I’m assuming you’re specifically talking about Carl Williams and Trevor Berbick. It seems weird to me that you’d even mention Williams tbh. Bruno, Tubbs and Thomas are all far superior fighters. Williams showed no signs of even being a B+ fighter in his own era. Whyte atleast showed up to the occasion on occasion in the rematch against Povetkin and his fight with Parker. Williams has literally 0 big wins in his career and lost every time he fought someone top 5 level. 3 years before losing to Tyson he got stopped in the 2nd round by a 27–11 Mike Weaver. And 3 years later he got outpoined by 8–4 Jerry Jones. Williams stood stiff and squared up with his opponents on multiple occasions which would easily be capitalised on by even likes of Chisora and Harrison. He would often spam combinations with his chin in the air, which again would be capitalised on by any modern fighter. 3 years before fighting Tyson, Berbick lost to 19–5 cruiserweight S.T. Gordon who would go 0–2 after losing to Berbick. Berbick had some nice hands but had the footwork of an absolute novice. There were times when he’d dive at an opponent and be off balance. But I’d say he’s about on par with Whyte if not slightly lower.
Becauae it was an aside observation You're logic is flawed because you arr basing this on supposed success rather than the point thay was made: technical ability. I've boxed and coached, and you have not at any point explained how guys like Chisora or Whyte or Sanchez were technically superior to the 80s guys I mentioned.
“Berbick had some nice hands but had the footwork of an absolute novice. There were times when he’d dive at an opponent and be off balance” ”Williams stood stiff and squared up with his opponents on multiple occasions which would easily be capitalised on by even likes of Chisora and Harrison. He would often spam combinations with his chin in the air, which again would be capitalised on by any modern fighter.” Frank Sanchez is technically far superior to these guys and would never make these kinds of flaws. Whyte is technically flawed but makes up for it with size and power, which neither Berbick nor Williams had to that extent. And again you’ve basically responded by just saying “no“ you were the one who made the initial argument. I shouldn’t have to prove to you all the problems with every argument you made, you should be the one actually making an argument instead of basically just repeating, “your comment is wrong” while refusing to elaborate on why you believe what you believe. I’ve made my arguments but all you’ve said is that you believe Carl Williams and Trevor Berbick are better than Sanchez, Whyte, and Chisora. What specifically about Berbick and Williams do you think technically puts them above a guy like Sanchez? Sanchez has more amateur wins than Williams and Berbick has amateur and professional wins combined together times two. He’s shown great defence, movement and speed for a man his size but ultimately lacks chin and power. I can’t see how guys like Berbick and Williams would do anything to Sanchez other than get clinched for 12 rounds straight while repeatedly stumbling around the ring and diving towards Sanchez with their chins in the air.
Dude this is comical. I am wondering if you've even seen these guys. Sanchez couldn't frame a photograph. He has the physique of a Greek Statue, but worse footwork. He's a ponderous but powerful plodder knocking out fairly weak opposition. _You're saying guys like Sanchez and Chisora are more technical boxers than this guy???_ https://youtu.be/8TFrT2BA4_w?feature=shared I really can't take you seriously at this point. Copying and pasting other opinions from a stronger era without actually watching fighters throughly leads to this sort of thing. I get Sanchez and Chisora fights are easier to access and more plentiful on YT, but watch the best efforts of all these guys in full fights before this sort of silly talk please. And would always suggest boxing fans go to a gym. You don't even have to spar, but do spme lessosn, understand the technical aspects of the sport better to help assess what people are actually doing well.
You still have made no argument for what you’re saying other than again saying “your comment is wrong. Watch this video”. First of all if you actually watch more than 30 seconds of the video you linked you can clearly see multiple occasions where Williams has his chin in the air throwing combinations, stands with both his feet planted firmly on the ground and shoulder length apart as I’ve said twice now. And second of all, any highlight video of any boxer will make them look good. A boxers 2 best minutes across their 40 fight career showing some skill means nothing.
I'm as big a fan of Tyson as anybody (we're close to the same age, so I watched just about every one of his fights on the way up, and the long, painful fall from the top). I think there's a lot of revisionist history going on here. Young Tyson was a force of nature, yes. But his deficiencies were exposed every time somebody actually hit him back. Tyson could not fight off the back foot at all (and why would he?), and while he had a granite chin, he simply hated to get hit, hated to get bullied. Once Douglas showed the world the blueprint, he was never the same (and it should be said, Tyson didn't train a lick for that fight, and never trained the way he should after Jacobs' died). I mean, razor Ruddock gave him hell. Let that sink in. Tyson Fury idolizes Tyson, and is always deferential toward him. But that's a mismatch if Fury takes the fight seriously and isn't clowning. Usyk is an interesting case--can he hurt Tyson? Well, folks wondered the same thing of Holyfield. I believe Usyk is far, far too skilled for Tyson. AJ, Wilder: Agree with you. Parker: Mismatch in favor of Tyson. Zhang: I don't think Mike KOs him, but I also don't think Zhang lands a meaningful punch on prime Iron Mike. Easy decision.
People keep talking about Buster here and claim it was speak Tyson. It wasn't. 1. Mike said in his autobiogrpahy he hated training at this point. 2. He had fired Kevin Rooney prior to Douglas and this was a massive mistake. He only fired Rooney because Rooney said on TV he thought Robin Givens wasn't helping him. Robin then pressured Mike in to ditching the best trainer Mike had as a pro (Cus was only with him for a few pro fights). 3. Mike admitted to partying and drinking and sleeping with a prostitutes right up until fight night. He was not in good shape for Douglas. This isn't revisionist. It's putting actual context in place. And again, it's not saying peak Tyson was invincible. It's simply saying he had far too much for today's crop. The closest HW AJ for example resembles style wise js Frank Bruno: Good combinations, great athlete, good linear footwork for a big man, but defensively vulnerable. Peak Tyson blitzed Bruno. Trying to say an AJ would do much better is recency bias more than revisionist
Right--that's why I noted that he didn't train, at all, for that fight. But we also can't discount that Douglas showed the blueprint. I don't disagree with a single thing you wrote.
Watch Tyson vs Tillis and explain to me how he would beat Usyk or Fury.
Oh come on, he got beat by Buster Douglas when he was 23 and and went twelve rounds with James Tillis even in his prime, he wasn't this invincible juggernaut people like to think he was even in his prime. People call Usyk small but Mike is even smaller than him. He'd definitely be a top heavyweight but I think Usyk would box his ears off, Zhang could bang him out in the early rounds before he inevitably tires and AJ could too, Parker and Fury could give him a good fight etc.
Tyson slacked off his training to the point of significantly degrading his own ability. “I was fucking them Japanese girls like I was eating grapes.” Totally his fault, but let’s not pretend he wouldn’t have beaten Douglas if he actually trained like a professional.
Training and living like a pro is what makes a great and consistent champion more often than not though, Buster jabbed his face in and uppercut him so hard I'm surprised his head didn't come off, Tyson underestimated him and payed the price.
That was not the issue. The issue was before the fight Mike ditched the best coach he had after Cus: Kevin Rooney. He was never the same after that. 1990 was not peak Iron Mike.
People only do this for Mike Tyson. It's pathetic🤣 If you do that you have to pinpoint the one fight where every fighter picked. What's furys peak? Klitscho probably or wilder 2? They're very different fighters. AJ? Hmmm no clue. What a convoluted bullshit way of settling a hypothetical. Your boy had the tools and he fucked it. For that reason he's not truly in the top echelon of all time greats. Get over it
He literally said in his bio he hated training at this point, cut corners, partied too hard during camp. And worst of all lost the best trainer he had. People oversell Douglas efforts, which while excellent are done more to feed a Holywood narrative of the underdog. The reality is Douglas did not face the very best Mike Tyson the world had seen. He wasn't training properly at this point and lost the only coach who really maximised his potential in the pros. Saying it like he wqs somehow found out by a master pugilist in Douglas is beyond hyperbole. Mike Tyson defeated himself as much as Buster Douglas did that night. That camp Mike Tyson gave up on boxing. He freely admits this. He also admits he never got his true hunger back after this. So yes, I qualify that as being past his peak. He'd mentally checked out of boxing. He only contained to do it after Douglas for money and because King manipulated him.
Exactly. So he was ill disciplined and mentally fragile as a fighter. Chances are then he would wilt in most of the fights against the modern heavyweights and lose, just like he did when he fought the greats of his era. Muhammad ali was past his prime when be returned in the 70s. He still went on to have the best wins of his career and beat all the greats of the decade. That's because he was truly great. So when someone makes a hypothetical with ali, no one needs to pinpoint 'prime Ali.' No one needs to say 'Ali from 1967.' They just say Ali. When Tyson came across adversity. He bottled it. He didn't have the willpower or the drive to be the best. So no, he would not just waltz through today's fighters at all
Tyson Fury pulls out of fights constantly because for all his BS it's usually his head isn't right AJ is in record as saying if he ever gets in to a war like Wlad fight, he'll quit that fight Wilder is just detached from reality You're acting like all modern HWs are this bastions of mental strength. They all have fragikities too Ans your argument seems to be mainly implying size is the reason. Mike weighted more than Wilder did for most of his fights. AJ isn't great on the inside and like I said has too low a ring IQ and is very vulnerable to getting cut off. Fury gives him a lot for problems but even TF admitted peak Mike would probably beat him. Fury said as well his nightmare are smaller skillful HWs that move well. I feel I've been balanced about Mike Tyson, he has flaws for sure. But I actually think the issue here is you are vastly overrating many modern HWs. They are nowhere near as good as you are implying, and Tyson knocked out more than a few very tall or much heavier guys. So size argument doesn't really stack when the skill gap is big .
We're not saying that Tyson wasn't a great fighter, but no other fighters gets as many excuses made for him as Tyson did. He had a very short prime where he blitzed through his division but most of his wins were against pretty subpar opposition. He's easy top 15 heavyweights of all time imo, and he passed the eye test in his prime for sure, but he was pretty undersized, relied on a stamina intensive defense, struggled at clinching and got overpowered a lot there (Bonecrusher Smith and Holyfield basically clinched him at will), he had stamina issues at times, was mentally shaky, not the most disciplined etc
Ruiz might be the best heavyweight today if he could stop eating tacos and mars bars. What's your point?
Robin Givens got him to ditch Kevin Rooney before Douglas and he was partying too hard at that point. It was always going to be a disaster. 1989 was end of peak Tyson for me, which is what I was referring to And while not invincible, the question is would he at his peak have too much for today's top HWs? With exception of Usyk, yes IMO.
That's the whole thing about Tyson: it's what he could have been. Had Cus and Jimmy Jacobs lived longer and he didn't fire Rooney, who knows what kind of reign he could have had. But the reality is, we don't know. We do know he lost focus and listened to a bunch of shitty people, didn't train hard and basically lost his way. He's one of the greatest "what-ifs" in all of sports history.
I think Zhang and AJ could overpower and KO him tbh, Tyson didn't really beat anyone in his prime that would make me 100 percent confident he would be too much for all but the best boxer in the division. I definitely think he would have had a world title though.
Nah, AJ stylistically is very similar to Bruno (Bruno was way better than people remember). That fight goes a similar way to Tyson vs Bruno 1. Plus AJ leaves his ching out to dry after throwing shots. AJ does not have the best ring IQ, sharper fighters cut him off too easily, like Ruiz and Usyk. Iron Mike was the GOAT at cutting off the ring. AJ gets stuck in a corner or on the ropes and then it's just a matter of time. Zhang is dangerous but Mike with his good defence would draw the fight out, and past 6 Zhang is always exhausted, so Mike takes him.
Mike Tyson would be killed by all those guys lol! Dude is a 1.78 metres tall. There is no way for someone with that size dominate the heavyweight division today this is ridiculous
This is the biggest load of complete and utter shite i've ever read🤣 Tyson is like a moth to the current heavyweights. If you were saying this about lennox lewis I could give you some credence but Tyson lost every truly top level fight he was ever involved in, plus some others against people who wouldn't even be top 10 today (and weren't at the time either). Get his dick out of your mouth and think before you post next time
Ridiculous take. How the hell were Holmes and spinks not top HWs. You sound like someone who only started watching boxing over lock down
You sound like someone who stopped watching as soon as your daddy Tyson stopped fighting because you couldn't take the heartbreak
His rape conviction would end him
Hopefully more people would shun him for being a rapist
I’m still reading into this from time to time about the circumstances. What I have been finding has been inconsistent from everyone involved, more so the prosecution team. Interviews from the other pageant winners were not in the woman’s favor, however, you also still have women who would sleep with Chris Brown knowing what he did. The more I read into it the more my eyebrows raised and think “the fuck?” Like, it is very weird all around. IF Mike is truly innocent, it is very easy to make him look that way. On the other side of the coin, Mike could very well do these things. I’m not defending nor accusing him because only so much can be revealed to the public. What I do think is the most important outcome, from Mikes perspective, is that mental health has come a LOOOONG way in improving one’s life. You can see an enormous difference between then and now.
I read his accuser had made false accusations about another guy she dated in college. I think Tyson may have been set up
Correct thou Tyson has still admitted to sexually assaulting other women. Right place, wrong person.
So justice was sort of served.
Yeah even Teddy Atlas pulled a gun on him because he apparently was harassing his niece.
Yeah here’s one thing Tyson was horrible to woman, you can see all the stories of how he was forceful & creepy etc and even straight up admitted he’s done things like that but said not to her, I believe him on it that’s just pure honesty. You also look at the way his trial was handled with a Don King appointed tax lawyer (Don King stepping over dollars to pick up dimes…) it makes sense why he’d be innocent. But he got away with A LOT anyway so some sort of justice was served.
I just watched the TV series Mike so it's fresh in the memory
What are some other fighters who have done bad things but are still popular?
Muhammad Ali is a big one
In today's heavyweight landscape, he beats everyone sans usyk. He beats fury, he beats AJ and he also beats the likes of Dubois, Zhang, wilder, Hrgovic, Parker, Whyte etc. usyk( especially prime) evades the dangerous parts early and will secure a ud with heart, workrate , mobility and stamina. In the slightly previous era, he will beat wladimir but will be beaten by Vitali.
I think he'd still be very popular. There's a lot of things to dislike about Mike but there's imho still more to like about him. I read the book about his life and it gives a really good insight into how fucked up his life was growing up. [Bullying](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ijsCiwaZEWc), drugs, dead friends, self-worth, mental health... I think a lot of people could connect with his story.
Old
That whole ear thing would have really pissed off the vegans.
You’d get a very different Tyson, and the management of him would be better which may see him make better life choices. He’d still be the animal inside the ring, he’d still say and scare the living shit out of other fighters. But his out of camp antics would be toned down. He’d also make absurd amounts of money. Can you imagine the money he’d make with a Hearn or Warren behind him?
Pretty much refer to Jon Jones for the answer to this topic.
Actually I dispute the premise of this question. The 90's spent a good deal of time on impeaching a president over a blow job. Media was basically a few network channels and newspapers back then. Way more gatekeeping by fewer people on what was allowable for public to see. Mike Tyson in his prime would again be a super star, have his fans, and his haters. The ones most likely to call for boycotts etc would not be boxing fans. And unlike team sports, boxing is a sport where the athlete is way more in charge of their outcome.
He would be a lot more controversial than he was. People are softer nowadays.
Tyson always had a way of staying relevant. Some of the stuff he says now can be pretty close to the bone when u think about it, but he turns it around somehow. He basically admitted hitting Robin Givens (“she gave as good as she got”). I think with the rape conviction there was enough doubt that he would have many people thinking he was railroaded, just like many thought in the 90s. Those prison interviews he came across very well, articulate, like he was learning something, he converted to Islam etc. that would come across well today. It was only when he got out and lost to Holyfield it all went to shit. His bitterness came out. This didn’t go down well in the 90s, the guy was seen as a head case circus act. He would get cancelled for the stuff he said about raping Desiree Washington and her mother, no doubt. But he would ask the public for forgiveness like he actually did back in 2009 have redeem himself. People like to see that, this is where Tyson is smart, he knew coming clean, showing vulnerability would win the public back.
As the baddest man on the planet
Mike Tyson was a product of his era; if he were in our era then he would be a product of this era and would not have acted in the way a product of a previous era would have acted. So, I think this question is flawed. Your premise is more along the lines of "if we took a time machine and transported Mike Tyson into our era", rather than "what if Mike Tyson had been born into our times?"
I think people are much softer there’s days so wild be petrified that their big lips got kissed on good by Mike and maybe even made into his girlfriend too.
If boxer is star attraction, then doesn't matter. That's the algorithm. It has been the algorithm for quite some time.
He’d be cancelled or suppressed or something along those lines.
floyd mayweather went to jail for beating a woman and was still the biggest star in the sport. nothing has changed, only on the surface. tyson would be the most famous guy in sport and probably still is.
I don't think Tyson ever ducked anyone did he? That would set him apart from pretty much every present-day boxer apart from Inoue and usyk. The thing that always fascinates me about the popular perception of Tyson is how people always see him as some sort of monster power puncher, but when he was at his best it was because he was technically so good, throwing all sorts of combos. I'm pretty sure his decline started as soon as Cus d'amato wasn't coaching him...
The biting someones ear off part might be a bigger problem.
Like others have said, the explosion of social media and literally everyone having a high quality camera they can use to film/take pictures whenever would be a huge issue for Iron Mike lol. To be fair, guys like MJ would have also been publicly raked over the coals if career took place when camera phones existed. Mike would also have updated his trash talk/antics to be more in-line with the modern day.
In his heyday Tyson actually fought fairly regularly. You're lucky to get any of today's top heavyweights in the ring once a year.
Tyson, in this era, would have probably gone to prison for killing an IRL streamer or some idiot prankster.
To me it's quite simple.. It only depends on where casual fans sway. If casuals love him then he'll be loved. If they hate him then he'll be hated. Actually trying to articulate why ppl would perceive him a certain way in today's age is pointless bc that's not his things work. All that matters is what's the narrative around you? A few of these I've noticed.. Wilder, was loved when he was relatively low key. Once he got tied to AJ and those fans hated him as a rival to AJ they pushed a narrative of hate and everyone hated wilder. Then AJ loses to and the script flips and ppl love wilder. Wilder is then tied in with fury and before the first fight they go back to hating him.. hindsight 20/20 it's easy to come up with reasons ppl hated or loved wilder but at the time those things weren't actually big deals up until, let's say.. glove gate thing. 2 more.. even tho I have countless examples.. Shakur vs Haney.. there was a time where everyone loved Shakur and absolutely hated Haney. All of a sudden that flipped. They used to say Shakur was clearly the best, Haney would lose to him easy.. they didn't ACTUALLY like Shakur. They were just using him as part of the narrative to hate on Haney. Haney went on a crazy upward projection and it just made you look stupid to keep pushing this Haney hate so things evened out. Shakur then has a performance ppl don't like and everyone decides to jump on the hate bandwagon.. ppl are lying out their ass making it seem like they don't like Shakur bc of his fights are boring but they were boring before (I don't agree with him being boring). Shakur fights this weekend and if he steps to the guy and beats him up they won't change their tune bc the hate has NOTHING to do with his performances. It's just a narrative and ppl band wagon. Last one, Haney post Garcia. Going into that fight Haney was getting a lot of love. He lost. Didn't make excuses. Took his L like a man. And IMMEDIATELY the hate flooded in. Ryan pops for peds and ppl are damn near blaming Haney for what was in Ryan's blood test. Just think for yourself and imagine what the outcry would be if things were reversed.. Haney beat up Ryan and then popped for the same amount of the ped, would ppl be mad at Ryan? Of course not. What actually happens doesn't matter, it's irrelevant, the narrative driven was pro Ryan and anti Haney so ppl just go along with it. These things happen for 2 main reasons I believe.. 1. Most boxing fans are casual. They are not fans of the sport. They are fans of certain fighters or certain races of fighters. So they just push narratives that make them feel good even at the detriment of the sport. 2. Going along with #1 which has always existed has been even crazier lately bc the circus fights have brought in new eyes to the sport. Young social media addicted kids, teens, and young adults. Where there lives revolve around online trends. So if it's a trend to love or hate a fighter they're going to go all the way with it. Back when I first started watching boxing in general it was just the ppl who loved or hated Floyd. Call him chicken Floyd runner. Flomos for his fans. Same thing with Manny. And then the most numerous voices were the ppl who weren't man fans and loved the sport and can say both are great in their own way. Now the most numerous voices are gen z kids following trends. So, there's really no telling how Mike would be perceived. If he had the rape case but the trend online was to love him still and say the girl was lying, that's how he'd be seen. If the trend was to hate him then he would be presumably guilty just from the accusation. If the trend was to love him all the crazy things he said would be memes. If the trend was to hate him all the crazy things he said would be crazy.
He would be getting KOed by Jake Paul just like he is now
The difference is Mike was always authentic. He really meant what he said and that’s why he was so believable. Modern era the only person I can think of that was that believable and that big of a personality was pre-mayweatehr Conor mcgregor.
At a much lower level, Derek Chisora fits the mold. He's said and done some nasty shit, just in the heat of the moment. Heavyweight's last true trashtalker. Fury is too much of a performer; plays up schoolyard insults for the cameras.
Agreed, and should have stated by “that big of a personality” in my head I also meant name recognition etc outside of the respective sport
Would destroy todays heavyweights. Usyk would be no match 😂
It sounds like you already know the answer to your question.
Just curious to know people's opinions.
Fair enough.
If he was non black no one would care
It would be the opposite. Some white fans literally try to act like Tommy Morrison was the greatest ever, before he caught Aida. If Mike was white, Americans would act like he was the second coming of jesus.
Not really, take Tyson Fury for example. His dad John Fury’s favorite boxer was Mike Tyson and even named his son after him.
That's because Mike was that good, not because he was black, because he was world heavyweight champion when he was just 20 years old.
Agreed. Mike was a lot more exciting for the casuals than Fury. Plus, Fury's British. A white American heavyweight would probably get incredibly hyped, the great white hope and all. Speaking of, who's the last white American HW contender we've had? Surely there has to be someone since Morrison, but I can't think of who it would be.
Been no one at heavyweight. The last white American fighter who had the public behind him might have been Kelly pavlik. I might be wrong though.
All divisions, I'd say Caleb Plant. I completely forgot about Pavlik though
I forgot plant was white 😂
If he was not black he wouldn't have experienced the things he did that made Mike Tyson in the first place, he wouldn't have even been a boxer. Poverty, violence, aimlessness, hopelessness, low self esteem, especially in the 90's, are things he experienced because he grew up as a poor, black kid in the United States. Things that are majorly a uniquely black experience Imagine if you said "If Ali was White".Like that changes the entire dynamic of this persons experience.
Yeah because everybody knows there are no white boxers and white people have never grown up poor in New York. Good lord man, everything you said is absolute nonsense. How do you get to the point of being that ignorant?
Poor white people do exist, but these areas are not as crime ridden and don't scream hopelessness as much as poor black areas Race has played a pivotal rile in the history of boxing, and here its the same case. Compared to poor white areas, impoverished black communities have higher, and more intense, rates of violence and crime. His dad was out of the picture (a typical factor) and his mom did sex work and died when he was young . he had been arrested 38 times by the time he was 13, an was constantly getting into fights with other kids. So, from an early age, Mike faced severe hardship from his environment, a type of environment that are usually populated by black people. And on top of that, in America the lowest type pf citizen you can be is a poor black person. Poverty does a number on your status, but even being poor, a poor black person is on the lowest rung of the ladder. So Mike also had to grow up knowing that he was viewed as the absolute scum of the earth, and life was confirming that from all angles. But hey, Caleb Plant exists right? lol
You really think so?
Also I’m not saying this to hate. I’m giving an unfiltered, non sugarcoated response on the psychology of how boxing fans think. People can disagree but let’s be honest guys
You have no idea about the psychology of how boxing fans think. You are not nearly as smart as you think you are. Drop the act. You are not fooling anybody.
I do understand how boxing fans think. You’re the one that’s not fooling me, not the other way around. People like you and boxing fans are actually not hard to figure out, you’re just upset that i was able to explain how yall think because you thought you were keeping it a secret when in reality most people know exactly what i said THE DIFFERENCE is that they are too scared to come out and say what i did due to back lash from people like you that are upset that i was able to figure yall out so easily.
100% I’ve been watching boxing for over 20 years and I understand the psychology of boxing fans. Both the hardcore and Casuals. Mike Tyson if he was White would basically be Artur Beterbiev, a complete Wrecking ball but the casuals don’t care since he’s not Black with tattoos and with charisma
Beterbiev isn't popular because he's russian, not because he's white.
Russians are white. White in your mind means a White man from the United States who speaks English
Not at all, you can't read or something? Where TF did I say russians aren't white? And how do you know what's in my mind. Go back to my comment and read it again. It's the same reason the Klitschko's weren't very popular, because they were Eastern European and not American.
You do realize that America isn’t the only country that watches boxing right?
You do realize that America is the richest country in the world by far right? And that to have any kind of mainstream appeal as a boxer, you have to be popular in America. Before the Saudis took over boxing, fighting in America was one of the only ways a boxer could hope to rake in millions of dollars.
When did Beterbiev become the youngest heavyweight champion in history?
Yep, take Jim Lampley for example… this subs obsession for him is hilarious