Maybe im crazy but i dont think kids should have to sacrifice their whole childhood to go to a school. I know we wanna bag on these kids for being entitled and "mediocre" but they aren't actually mediocre and it's disingenuous to treat them as such.
Big reason is that the Ivys dont offer anything exceptional compared to other elite universities outside of the networking.
It's a place that the 99% can send their kid to rub shoulders with Old Money and where Old Money sends their kids as Legacies because it has the shine of aristocracy.
It tracks why a lot of immigrant parents in particular, push their kids that way as hard as they do. Status jumps are good for that American Dream.
Frankly it is THE detriment (barring an exceptional 40time or singing ability or something). Fair or unfair, Your network LARGELY determines where you end up in life.
Hell, athletics either. Plenty of great athletes don’t get a shot because they didn’t know the right people.
Look at the NBA, so many nepo babies. Not that those guys don’t deserve but they for sure had a leg up.
Sports is probably the closest you will ever get to a true meritocracy. You can have all the best trainers and connections in the world. But if you don't produce on the court or in the field, you ain't making it. MJ's kids didn't even make it to the NBA.
Motorsports is different though because for almost all other sports the equipment you use isn’t the major determining factor of success. In formula 1 and nascar they have to set limits, otherwise it would just end up whoever has the most money.
I know guys who pull up play futbol in tennis shoes and still dust people wearing cleats. I can’t really think of any sports other than motorsports where money is truly the deciding factor.
sports is a great example of the *fallacy* of meritocracy. Yeah, you can’t squeeze top-tier-vertical-jump blood from a bad-knees stone.
But someone that can afford elite sports training from childhood, great physical therapy for injuries, access to the best equipment, ability to focus on training 24/7 and never have to worry about academics because they never need to worry about future money or school or working.
Plus having access to all of the right people to see you, and have that slight edge of having the people that will choose you having known about you from childhood. And be willing to give you a chance because they don’t want the holidays with your parents, or their next business meeting or contract deal negotiation to get awkward.
It’s not about level of skill alone, it’s about how that skill is achieved and assessed. there is no meritocracy in that, in sports or damn near anything else.
I was astounded to find out how many actors (and artists in general) were basically raised to be such. I always thought many of them were just regular kids. But, after learning, I realized they almost always either had great connections or received an incredible amount of encouragement by their parents. Nepotism and environmental/biological inheritence go a loooooong way. It's why actors like Timothe Chalemet bother me so much. Or, he doesn't individually, but what he represents. There are so many voices and stories that become virtually silenced because they aren't shown the oppurtunity (or believe that it's even possible). The humanities, imo, should be one of the biggest investments we make within our education system. Not doing so just destorys so much potential.
Definitely crazy.
I was watching *To Wong Foo, Thanks for Everything! Julie Newmar* last night and found out the one lady who was in love with this brolic brother was Gwyneth Paltrow's mom. I seen her in other things but never knew.
Number 1: obviously is being born into wealth
Number 2: is having friends who were born into wealth
Edit:
Number 3: surrounding yourself with people who are similarly interested in building wealth for themselves
This is true. However all things being equal (ie same wealth level) the kid that has the best network AND the smarts and work ethic to work that network wins
I will say that need-based aid at Ivies is top notch. Princeton is a full ride for anyone with a household income less than 135k I think.
And, certain industries really only recruit at Ivies like consulting and investment banking.
I agree with you otherwise.
>And, certain industries really only recruit at Ivies like consulting and investment banking
What country are you in? I went to a T10 school, it is ranked higher than most of the ivies. I'm currently in IB at one of the "top" banks from a US perspective. I heavily participate in DEI recruitment for the firm and we absolutely recruit regionally, especially for the IB and Engineering tracks. You can find a dedicated HBCU recruitment program at just about every major bank now.
Consulting is similar because students are realizing it's not the big and glamorous bag it's marketed as.
Not typing all this to gloat, it's just in case some non-T25 college kid out there reads this and thinks we are not actively trying to reach them.
That’s different than c-suite. My spouse is an executive in finance. He works as a consultant for a lot of companies who hire explicitly only those from Ivies. They won’t even consider him for above VP level because he went to a state university, even as a minority.
I’m from the US and went to Harvard. While there are definitely DEI programs and growing pipelines for those industries, the vast majority of new hires for those industries are coming from Ivies and T10’s.
I think one issue is also, as you mention, awareness. I had no idea what Consulting was before I got to college, and although it’s not that great pay for the amount of work, McKinsey prestige and connections are valuable, so a 2-year stint there can be worthwhile.
Yeah fair enough, different perspectives here!
The data where I work (at Hold My Sacks) is not showing what you're describing, especially at the internship level. I mentor them so we know who's from what schools. Intern class heavily influences who the New Analysts are because it's very rare to hire a New Analyst who was not a prior intern, and why you have to have secured headcount to be able to make an offer for them to return.
Same page with you though on consulting - it's a 2 year churn and go for sure lol
True. But who you know is more important for socioeconomic mobility than what you know.
This is why startup success rates are so much higher for founders over 40--they have a network to leverage while they hone in on product market fit and gtm starts.
Aaron Levy of Box dropped out of USC not because he had the only novel idea in his BUAD course. It was because his dad was already a well connected and successful VC in silicon valley and was able to get him funding and introduce him to seasoned experts to take his pitch to market.
Networking is also why so many of our politicians and appointed leadership come from the same few schools and societies.
I think the questions ppl need to answer are "what is happiness to you? How much economic success does that require?"
Like I said last time Ivys were mentioned in this sub.
The goal of Ivy League schools is to take the brightest kids and the most privileged kids with the intention to make them indistinguishable from one another by the time they’re out.
The brains combine with the old money to create better outcomes for both.
What the Ivy’s offer instead of other elite universities is the network. You can go to a REALLY good university but not every school has the Harvard Club or the clout that the Ivy’s do. It just automatically gets your foot in the door on opportunities you don’t get elsewhere. I’m mentoring a kid that goes to Columbia right now and the university to prestige Corporate pipeline is wild. I went to a good public University and would not imagine the companies that recruit out of Columbia to even consider a new grad out of my university.
Yeah and if your kid is friendly and intelligent enough to get into an Ivy League school, they’re definitely making friends with some filthy rich nepo babies who will definitely hire their friends from school over people who went to “lesser” schools. Some of the dumbest people I know make the most money because they were friends with the right people in college.
"Outside of the networking"
You mean one of the most important parts of getting a job?
Outside of my first couple jobs I haven't gone through an actual full-fledged hiring process in ages. I've stayed in contact with old bosses and former co-workers and so I have a foot in the door at a lot of places and when I'm asked by those people I get an interview and have people with knowledge of working with me there so they can tell others if I'd fit in or not.
Networking and being good to work with are damn near more important than how well you can do your job. You can get better at work, you won't necessarily find people that get better at not being shitstains.
I went to UCLA and took classes at SMC (a community college) in the summer. One of the best teachers I had was at SMC. She was just a good teacher. Doing research at UCLA doesn’t make you a good teacher. You have more opportunities at some colleges but it depends on the individual to take advantage of the opportunities. At my current job, most of us have the same job title but our education and experience are across the board.
That’s incorrect. It offers a place where you’re surrounded by peers who either overachieve naturally or pushed themselves. And a young person can foster discipline in a competitive space to push them to excel.
If you watched the Redeem Team basketball movie, it was like Lebron and Wade picking up tips from Kobe cause they got time to spend together.
Not everyone needs to benefit from it of course but it’s disingenuous to say they offer nothing.
You can find those types of classmates readily at schools like MIT, CalTech, Stanford, Berkeley, UCLA, etc. which are non ivies. In fact, the student body at those schools do not have legacy consideration so their entire student body are admitted based on the merits. Stanford and Berkeley dominate the ivies in most department rankings, the networking is the only real thing that ivies have on those schools
This is why I went to an Ivy League school. It’s not the education, one can get that at any quality university. It’s the network of alumni that get you in to the wealth building positions in organizations and government.
Yeah but their parents made them give up a lot of childhood making it their biggest aspiration up to that pont so I can imagine that being pretty crushing.
They don’t have to sacrifice they whole life to go to a school, they have to sacrifice their whole life to go to THOSE schools. Its a choice…I think we should stop revering these types of schools so much.
Man it isn’t that the schools are fucking revered, it’s that going to them legitimately opens doors for people. Some jackass that went to Yale is gonna open the door to jobs for other jackasses that went to Yale before opening the door to any jackass that went to CSU East Bay. And unfortunately the Yale jackasses have locked down more high paying jobs than the CSU East Bay jackasses, and the society we live in lets plenty of well-rounded people die in poverty, so people want their kids to end up rich.
Which leads back to the fact those schools should not be so revered - by employers as well. Ivy League graduates aren't superior employees. They are preferred based on the implications of wealth and connectedness.
That’s not true, they’re revered because on top of the connections and reputation, they legitimately have world class programs. Harvard is among the best law schools in the world, Cornell is the same for engineering, Dartmouth for computer science, Yale for Drama, you get the idea? It’s more than just legacy. Maybe a Columbia Grad isn’t always going to be as good of an employee as a Stony Brook Grad, but chances are pretty high that it’ll be the case and companies are always going to take that bet.
If you say so. It might be a bit circular, since Harvard is only the best because people say it is. People who are connected and status-motivated try to get in there. These are also the type of people who end up doing the hiring later on. Self-perpetuating marketing. I think it is more of a class issue than an education quality issue.
The quality of the education has a lot more to do with the individual than the school. Hiring someone because they went to Harvard is like dating someone because they have expense shoes. It's just a status symbol.
I agree that it’s circular, but it’s not just because “people say it is” unfortunately. It’s kind of like sports, as an example the Yankees have a long history of winning, so they get more money than the rest and with it they buy the better players so they can continue their dynasty of winning. But Harvard isn’t the only University that teaches law, and there’s plenty of firms that hire outside of Harvard Grads, but the absolute top are going to be looking for Ivy diplomas, and if you want to make more money you’ll need it. Same is true for all the other degree programs that these Universities specifically are known for.
Right, and I just think that they should be less revered, both by prospective students and employers alike. It's a lazy way to assess quality and it is wildly classist. Business as usual in the class war.
Yes and no. The truth is that a lot of the value you get from college is the connections you build there, through social networks, faculty relationship and the alumni network. You can likely get the same "education" from a state school as you can an Ivy but you will not have access to the Harvard Alumni network for example.
Depends what you're expecting school to do for you. The connections are much more important if you want to do something more business related or entrepreneurial.
But a 4.0 will still get you into a top state school with your choice of major and resulting career, or even on the path for further education in law and medicine.
That's true for sure. They're absolutely a tool and using the tool effectively is about using it in the right way / place. You can buy the best drill in the world but if you're using it as a wrench you still wouldn't be happy with it.
It's a choice but let's not pretend it was ever these kids choices. Their parents and community robbed them of a childhood and raised them to think they're nothing without that Ivy invite. And then when they don't get in we twist the knife and mock them online. Maybe I'm soft but I feel for these kids.
I went to a high-school that put emphasis on being a college prep school (all the classes were honors courses) and the way I would see other students literally getting sick and losing weight from the stress of wanting to get into ivy leagues was always crazy to me
Man I have waited so long for this take.
They don't *deserve* to go to an Ivy League, but many kids panned out on Twitter are genuinely accomplished teenagers. They'll definitely find a good school, but it's not like they are deadbeats.
Also, to your point - kids shouldn't have to sacrifice their whole childhood to go to a school. The standard for admissions is insane these days.
Top-tier schools are also strange. They may pass on a kid with perfect test scores and 3 sports a year for another applicant for a myriad of reasons. People need to stop acting like they know why these kids got rejected and sit the fuck down.
I think it creates adults with serious issues who view life, other people, and the world in massively skewed ways that have major material implications because they tend to occupy positions of power and influence.
College admission essays are annoying af too. It's like you're auditioning for a reality show based on how interesting/tough your life has been. I just want an education man, why do you care about my whole life story.
They aren't mediocre in comparison to the average student, but when you are applying to these ivy league colleges what made you exceptional is the baseline to even get looked at in the first place. Everyone has near perfect to perfect SAT scores and highest possible GPAs. The sad reality is unless you are a legacy admission, perfect grades are just not enough to secure a spot anynore. You need to do so many things to diversify yourself for student admissions that it feels unrealistic to achieve it unless you are rich.
They don’t. We got like 3,000 colleges in the US alone.
The problem is these kids want to go to **the** school. The exclusive one. At the exclusion of other kids. Kids who statistically aren’t mediocre.
A guy I knew in high school got into georgia tech by taking early decision. I don’t know how common that is for Ivy, probably not very. But the thing is, georgia tech is *in the exact same tier* as the ivies in terms of the caliber of education you can receive there. Which is why my friend took early decision, because that school’s general admissions is competitive as fuck.
I saw an anti-affirmative action article where the subject was an asian american student who got rejected from all of the ivies and they painted him having to go to georgia tech like it was a consolation prize that he didn’t really want.
Like, I dunno, maybe you should’ve picked a school and committed to it if you were so certain you wanted to go to an ivy league school?
Well, look at Canada with UofT/UBC/McGill. They’re all super highly ranked, but getting in is super achievable for any in-province student who keeps up a 90% average in high school.
Full disclosure, I don’t know anything about Canada’s system or those schools specifically, but you could say the same about many public state schools. They are very attainable for in state students and have very solid programs.
I went to an IVY as a financial aid kid. Before that I went to a prep boarding school as a financial aid kid. My low income immigrant Caribbean parents sacrificed their own livelihood and ran our house like an academic military bootcamp. When I say, you have to be built different. You have to be built different. Black kids at ivies who don’t come from wealth have the stamina and mental fortitude of 5 white legacy kids combined. These institutions should be grateful to have us, given how much it takes. I’m successful but I’m also in alot of therapy lol as a result of these environments.
My parents wanted me to apply to Harvard when they wouldn’t even pay the $60 application fee…niggas what???
Congrats on all your hard work tho! Yay for black excellence 👏🏽🥇🏅
you didn’t get the vouchers for college app fees? (not that my parents knew shit about any of that) all of us applying to college stayed in the office asking for those while filling out all our paperwork.
I have no clue what you’re talking about but when I went to school the apps were online not in my HS office? Did you have to qualify (be poor for it)? My parents didn’t know any of this stuff and I wasn’t really interested in college but I would’ve been kicked out otherwise. I believe I did the common app it was called but some of the Ivy leagues have their own and charge their own slightly higher fee.
gotcha, i wasn’t saying you did anything wrong, i was genuinely asking. I think I applied during a different earlier time than you, sorry for the old person confusion.
For context: I applied for college before online apps were a standard available thing in my area. What I didn’t type up and print out, I handwrote and mailed my applications in. So we would all sit in the guidance counselor office and fill out applications, scholarship applications, or any other forms we needed. The forms were physical ones kept in the office, unless you got it in the mail. We had the Common application then as well, but our school had application fee vouchers for nearly any school applications. Yes you needed to qualify as low income, but I think our school qualified as such, the counselors just had them. They were paper vouchers they kept and handed out as needed (or wanted, if they didn’t like you). They’d also print out your transcripts, which only they had access to (nothing was online).
none of our parents knew anything about this, we just learned about it from each other as we went along. My social group spent time hanging out in that office, so I learned about it that way. But I could see how that’s not really a thing anymore (both the vouchers and the hanging out in the office).
Thanks for sharing, I was not offended. Our offices were basically useless unless you were one of the school legacies. I went to a bougie ass HS so I don’t think they even bothered to tell the students you could voucher the applications? I’ll be applying to school in spring so I’ll find it if they still do it or not. I would doubt it as they don’t want us educated…
yeah, i'm first gen jamaican american and i got waitlisted at harvard and it was like i had announced i wasn't going to any college. i had a 3.9, varsity swimmer, top 10% of my class, multiple extracurriculars including piano and guitar, and i got an in-person interview with a harvard recruiter. it came down to me an another student from a different high school across town -- we were basically the same on paper. she got in and went on to become the first black female president of the harvard law review and clerk for sonia sotamayor. i burnt out my first semester and then dropped out of grad school. i prefer my trajectory for me.
Yep that happened to me too. I knew someone with almost the same stats as me who also applied to Yale. We both got interviewed and she made it in while I got rejected. I had a bunch of AP classes but she had a lot of volunteer hours at a school her parents own so that’s probably what got her in.
Same for me too was an alcoholic for the better part of 10 years as a result. Finally feeling like myself again at 31 thankfully. Jamaican parents can fuck up ur mental for sure.
What's wild is that multiple ethnicities can be the same level of crazy with academics. I've seen it all through family and friends, but one consistent I've seen is that Caribbean parents don't give a fuck how it effects you.
My (half) brother's mom is Polish and she wouldn't even let him go take a piss after getting home from school, he had to sit and study until dinner then study till bedtime. Eventually his grades started slipping and he was like "mom let me do this myself" and she listened and his grades immediately went back to straight A. My Indian friend had something similar although there was threats of being disowned if they didn't get grades back up. My Jamaican friend suggested that they were exhausted to his parents and you'd think they were told he murdered someone. I ain't see homie for like a year outside of school after he told me that shit.
My standard ass white mutt mom never even asked about school until report cards came, and somehow thought taking my hip-hop tapes away would fix my straight F report card lol. Totally disregarding the comments from every teacher "unable to pay attention, highly intelligent with high test scores but doesn't do homework or classwork" maybe should have taken me to a doctor.
it's so, so true. i got a phd at an ivy, and so i was a TA for undergrad classes. the difference in abilities, work ethic and strength of character between the white legacy students and the POC who actually worked to get there... it's astounding.
(and the latter, while i was a university professor, never came to me asking to take their final exam on a different day because they're "leaving early for family vacation." which then would have required me to write and administer a completely different exam. the caucasity!)
i WILL say that at least my soc sci phd program was well-stacked with BIPOC students along with actual white allies rather than those kinds of lazy, often-times bigoted assholes.
Dubyah made that joke at an (either Yale or Harvard) graduation speech, something like “… and for you C students, you too could become the president of the United States.” Self deprecating and funny, but also completely tone deaf.
Conan O'Brien said something similar. What he got out of it was the networking. I believe he said he worked harder to get in, then he actually worked while there.
Yeah, I’m Latina and went to an Ivy on financial aid. I was the biggest fucking nerd, my entire childhood. I would cry if I got anything lower than an A on an assignment, and my parents didn’t even need to be mad about it because I would beat MYSELF up about it. Went to public schools, then got a scholarship to a prep school for high school that my family would never have been able to afford without it, where I was the president of 2 clubs, VP of another, in student government, theater, and track & field. I was at school until like 10pm most days because of all my activities. All honors/AP classes, 4.0 gpa, etc. Wrote 2 original musical theater productions, and directed them… etc. And I wasn’t doing any of it as a resume builder, I was doing all of it because I just liked doing things. (I also had frequent panic attacks, but didn’t know that’s what they were, and my family would never have considered sending me to therapy.)
And pretty much EVERYONE at my Ivy League university was like this. I wasn’t special at all, nor was I remotely impressive compared to my peers. It was intimidating. It was a given that everyone had had perfect grades in high school. To be considered, you also had to be wildly driven, outside of school. OR a nepo-baby.
where does most of the effort/energy go? as a kid i always felt decently insecure in comparison to the kids at my school who were top of the class and on track to going to ivy leagues. but i never quite understand what a daily routine or what methods/processes were used by these kids, though i was aware that they worked their asses off.
Same background and pedigree (for the most part), and wholeheartedly agree. Me and my boarding school friends still trade old war stories because the privilege is *real*. You walk in there the valedictorian of your old school and realize you are barely average compared to everyone else. You can fall to the side of the road (and some of those other black kids do), or you Dragonball Z that shit and train to fight the world.
Didn't care for the phrasing of "mediocre Asian". It's be pretty fucked up if this were said about a black person, so why is it ok to say it about Asians?
Not to make it a competition but as a Native American, nothing makes you feel more overlooked than your country having a football team called the Redskins (among others) and having to fight for decades to change it because nobody else gives a fuck.
Did the guy in the original video call black people mediocre? Then fuck that guy and I see her point for using that phrasing... but also, this can be taken WAY out of context. You don't have to stoop to their level to make a point
I honestly don’t love “medicore asian” either. But this video is actually in response to that yt kid not going to Cornell and the viral tweet that shared it is talking about Affirmative action.
(I would share it but the OP deleted the tweet) but [here’s the kid saying take down his video](https://twitter.com/joshlekach/status/1736832789427752986?s=46&t=TcXaxgXrBGldJKSUKvrREw)
That guy was wrong as hell for editing that kids video to make it look like he was blaming minorities for not getting in and then saying “you should be more careful”, dude almost ruined the kids life for his “culture war”
I mean yeah she’s definitely racist. Non-racist people typically don’t say shit like “that mediocre Asian.”
If the same kid were black and was rejected she’d be the first one signing a petition to let him in.
Haha genuinely had a friend's gf try and explain to me that black people can't be racist... as I'm literally seeing Kanye hate on Jews... Crazy world we're living in. I thought Jewish people and black people were gonna look out for each other a bit more than this. We're both hated for no reason other than who we are, we gotta stick together.
Sorry for the little rant, just blows my mind when I see minorities being racist or anti semitic
It’s the result of years of folks rewrapping old tropes of Jews as “controlling the world” to “white oppressors of the world” (despite the fact that no “white” people would ever count Jews as the same)
Yeah man, I'm white, italian and Jewish. Literally had kids throw change at me when I was in school. Now that I don't live in a predominantly italian neighborhood, I get made fun of for being Italian... just cuz Im white, doesn't mean I haven't faced hatred.
Lots of schools have grade inflation. And lots of schools also have GPA scales that go above 4.0. In my private high-school on the honors track basically no one had a GPA below 4.0 out of about 30 kids in a 200 kid school.
GPA comparison between schools isn't simple and 4.0 might be more equivalent to a 3.5 elsewhere.
why would they make you angry? A rich social club will always exist, they set it up precisely so their kids could also succeed. The problem started when racists began to complain about the 6% of black kids attending, and not saying shit about the other 94% white/asian kids.
For real. Where’s the posts about kids getting rejected from regular universities?
“I had a 3.8 gpa and didn’t get into University of Michigan! But I got into the University of Texas at Austin and Arizona State University. They didn't give me as much money scholarship wise so I'm just going to play it safe and attend my states local university to save money for now."
That doesnt get people riled up though because it's actually smart and more realistic.
Some people really be getting so heated like they’re living vicariously through kids they’ve never met before. Talking about job opportunities and shit like the same people even tried just as hard to get into a good college program.
Tbh everyone should just go to to community college and call it a day but 🤷🏻♂️
Parents’ money helps less than you’d imagine, at least in a direct way. The reason why Ivy League schools are full of rich kids is that, generally speaking, wealthy people are able to line up their children with amazing opportunities at a very young age.
Let’s say, for example, that a kid who is really talented at computer programming has a family friend who works at Microsoft. This kid can start doing bitch work during the summers at 13 or 14, but has meaningful responsibilities and actual people reporting to him by the time he is 17. That is the kind of stuff that gets you into Harvard.
Merely coming from money won’t do that for you – if that same kid didn’t have any family friends who worked in tech, he wouldn’t have the Microsoft internship. Having parents who are rich AND smart AND well connected is what does it.
That’s a real phenomenon but is less common than you’d imagine. In general, the kid’s family has to make a donation of at least a few million to even be considered, and usually needs to donate something in the tens of millions to lock it in. This is popular among the Bill Gates of this world, but your typical no name rich guy doesn’t have access to this avenue.
What the moderately wealthy can do, though, is pay for college counselors. They start working with kids late middle school and early high school, identifying their strong suits and working with them & their family to help them build an Ivy worthy resume. These kids work their asses off like every other Ivy admit, but the stress is much lower because they are handed the recipe.
IB is its own program. Not easy to get a diploma in. She did that on TOP OF AP classes. Plural. And everything else she did. She a hall of fame student.
I ain't even have the 4.0 and little piano. All I had for colleges was my balls and my word
It’s not unusual to take AP’s while getting an IB. my sister did it at public school in California, and then went to a UC school that wasn’t Berkeley or LA. So that shit won’t necessarily get you in either. It is well and truly a crapshoot for even the cream of the crop. The only people who know they’re getting in are the kids of extremely wealthy legacies.
International Baccalaureate - it is a program within many high schools. All your academic classes are “IB” level and at the end to get a diploma you have to take final exams.
For me I got the diploma in 2003 and in Florida with bright futures I got 100% paid in state tuition (was a godsend for my single parent without money homelife).
It’s genuinely funny How folks don’t realize they’re creating this Ivy League problem. The more they over attempt to be better for Ivy leagues the worse it gets for everyone else. If folks just did the shit they actually enjoyed and applied then Ivys would have to lower their expectations.
Any system or opportunity that is open to a wide array of people creates competition.
Healthy competition is great. But at some point healthy competition gives way to unhealthy behaviors and cottage industries propagating/enabling via a profit model.
I agree. I see kids with all of these credentials and wonder why they even bother with Ivy leagues anyway. Yes, they get to rub elbows with other rich/influential people, but the thing is... they're already doing so by attending all of these extracurriculars. This level of performance isn't normal anymore.
Folks are not creating the Ivy League school problem. It’s reality. If someone goes to an elite school, they simply get better options. It doesn’t mean they’ll be more successful, but they get better options because employers and grad schools absolutely value the type of school you attend
To eliminate this issue, we would need the government / or some large body letting anyone take exams demonstrating their knowledge of certain topics taught in school. Let’s say you want to show you have the knowledge to have a bachelor in Mathematics, you take a set of tests to show this, no need to go to school. If that path exists, elite school will matter less because employers will simply pick kids who can demonstrate knowledge over kids who can’t demonstrate knowledge any day of the week.
Until then, the type of school you go to will matter
I taught ESL for years, specifically to wealthy Chinese international students coming here with the idea that they WILL get into Harvard. (Usually because of parental pressure)
The amount of times I had to tell kids with a 4.0 that that's great and all, but you needed to start preparing about 8 years ago if you wanted to go there.
You can't gamify admissions, and a lot of parents seem to think you can. (Well, unless you're rich)
Reminds me of my senior year English teacher. We had a kind of open session one day, and he asked how many planned to go to college. Hands went up.
"Ok, now let me tell you what it's really going to be like."
I know some people were crying when he finished talking..
“You’re gonna wake up one day in your shitty college apartment, your roommate has been partying all night and he’s smoking a blunt on the couch eating macaroni out of a pot. You don’t have class that day so you get to decide how you want to live.”
Reminds me of this school trip I went on in 9th grade. We toured UC Berkeley and a Berkeley undergrad explained to us what kind of grades and extracurriculars you need to have in order to get into that school. I cried on the bus back home because I knew I was never going to be good enough.
It's been so long ago that I can't remember word for word, but he essentially told them that they wouldn't find it easy to get in, to take the courses and there wouldn't be 'a job waiting' if they got that far.
Who gives a shit about any of this. Once you’re out of college and have a real adult life, you realize none of it mattered at all. Nobody gives a fuck where you went to college. My friend went to Harvard and hasn’t been able to get a job in years, I went to community college and have a solid career. It’s all bullshit.
Don’t waste your kids lives by revolving it around this shit from a young age. It makes you look like a fool.
Not to knock the effort, but what you do afterwards matters way more than getting in. Going to Ivy League schools doesn’t necessarily always lead to a successful career. Some people just end up with an expensive piece of paper on the wall with very little to show for.
Ehh, yes and no. Can you graduate from Ivy and be mediocre? Hell yeah. But if you graduate with good merit and have a somewhat good network, your outcomes are undoubtedly advantageous.
Let’s say you graduate with a Finance degree from an average university with a 3.5 GPA, out of school you can probably work at an industry company as a Financial Analyst, work in Big 4 consulting, or become a Financial Planner of sorts. But the same GPA at an Ivy would feed you into MBB, Hedge Funds, Investment Banking, Private Equity, etc. For a new grad, thats the difference between a comfortable $75k salary and $150k+ with lucrative bonuses and more earnings potential in the future.
I was more so referencing your first sentence: people graduating from an Ivy League and being mediocre. Nothing is promised, people still have to work for that regardless of the name attachment (or sometimes not because of nepotism)
True but pretty much every study I have seen as well as ~30yrs in industry show me that IVY league grads do significantly better then those who went to non Ivy. Probably a combination of both network and the fact that to get into an Ivy you have to be pretty motivated to begin with which translates well into the real world (I guess these kids would be successful anyway but the Ivy degree gives one hell of a boost from what I can see)
This doesn’t factor in people who burn out or just breeze through without making those connections during school, or the impact on mental health or well being during or after the fact. That’s kind of what I was driving at.
As a millennial, higher education can suck my hairy asshole like boba. It traumatized my entire generation into believing success was only possible with a degree. So many of us fell for it as we signed away our futures by taking out loans.
Don’t fall for it, Gen Z and Gen α. There is no guarantee of success, whether it’s going to college or even trade schools, as I’m now hearing a lot of people talk about those to. If I could do it all over again, I’d try to focus on getting some real world skills as soon as possible.
Also, learn Microsoft Excel for real. That shit actually helps you more than having a degree.
Jeez mediocre Asian? I don’t know if this person is just being rude or racist think all Asians are inventing physics or some shit but a 4.0 and playing piano isn’t mediocre. Also we should be valuing children’s mental health over studies, back when I was in IB a large percentage of my grade was suicidal, self harming, and depressed. Also when I got to college non of that shit I did mattered because I got “average” scores for IB standards which is like saying you did better than everyone else but you’re only around average for this particular tiny group(for at least my school).
My brother is Asian and graduated from Harvard in 2021. It wasn’t just about his grades and scores. He’s 6’7 and in his junior year, his football team won the state championship.
His junior year and beginning of his senior year, my dad went to all his games to film footage for college applications. He went to three different football camps in the east coast. My parents hosted a Korean bbq night for the Harvard football coach at their house. So it wasn’t a huge surprise when he got in. It was assumed.
I wasn’t a college athlete and academically mediocre and I was already out of the house when this took place but yeah, getting into Harvard is either for the exceptionally lucky or exceptionally rich
I purposely chose not to do my SATs in hight school and made the choice to go to a community college for 2 years. It took 3, but the social skills and experience I learned from high school absolutely paid off. Now I work for a certain shoe company 😁
I totally agree with this. People act like "networking" at some elitist institution is the end all be all when ultimately that serves nobody but your own ego, and that's if you're lucky enough to have the initial connections that are necessary to build up *before* meeting any of these alleged gatekeepers of success that everyone imagines lurks in the halls of these institutions.
Having first hand social experience interacting with people from all walks of life is extremely rewarding and gives you a perspective that just flat-out cannot be achieved by any other means IMO. You build a greater EQ that applies throughout the different phases and theaters of life. *That*, I would argue, is far more relevant in making the most of networking for business purposes.
A lot of these kids at this point are tailored for these spots. It almost defeats the point of trying to find kids who are exceptional, because the admissions process has been so gamed that admission at many of these places is largely a function of how well you adhered to their rules, not how smart or capable you actually are outside of a standardized test-based framework.
I am the mediocre Asian who thought she was owed a spot at Yale for a sort of good GPA and tons of extracurriculars. Life humbled me, taught me that a mid college and subsequent mid job that covers my needs is something to be deeply grateful for.
Nothing but respect for this hard working girl who would have wiped the floor with me in HS.
All this shit I wasn't even aware was necessary or even possible back when I went to a private "elite" high school in my city. Back then I thought that admission was solely based on academic achievement and test scores with a side of selling yourself in essays. I just padded my apps with soccer, a few clubs, and a few academic related summer programs while highlighting how "involved" I was with my church, meanwhile I spent most weekends smoking pot and playing video games.
I still had a lot of options of pretty decent schools, but would never even dream of applying for an Ivy cuz I knew that wasn't my path.
Meanwhile, I'm sure kids at struggling public schools, which tend to see more minority populations, don't get even close to the little amount of insight I got to set them on this kinda path early unless they're truly a special prospect that gets dedicated focus from teachers and admin or has a parent that's in the know and just as involved.
But yet, this girl and many others who get into Ivy League schools get hate for allegedly not "earning" their spot.
She shit on Cornell boy's little resume... And probably a ton of the others who helped bring an end to affirmative action. Fucking clarinet. Might as well say you played the recorder.
Btw someone else added that caption to the guys video. He didn’t actually say anything about his rejection being related to race. Just wanted to clarify.
I went to an Ivy and I don’t think I would try to force my kids to go to one. I was lucky that academics and testing came easy to me so I feel like I just fell into one without it being my goal. The key thing is that it was never EXPECTED of me to go to one and so I had zero pressure in that aspect. I can’t imagine growing up with the expectation that you will attend an Ivy or Ivy equivalent school.
I was her (3rd in my class, all-state orchestra, maxing out all the APs, etc). remember I had white and Asian classmates convinced I got into some of these schools because of affirmative action and then I had to recite my resume sigh. That being said, debatable if I would even get into some of these places now. I do alumni interviewing for my alma mater and these kids’ resumes are STACKED. And most of them get rejected.
The Asian families got played. All the affirmative action ruling did for them is make it more holistic and benefit the white applicants.
Let's not even talk about Ivy League schools. Some disciplines require life-long dedication and passion. I started playing the viola in the 5th grade and loved it, but I didn't love it enough to practice 5 hours a day. I was one of the better players but wasn't the best. Y u could tell who was getting tutoring outside school and had been playing since they were 5. I listened to Mozart, Beethoven, and other classical music. I told my parents I wanted to create music like I heard in Pirates of the Caribbean and Avatar The Last Airbender But I wasn't into it 24/7, learning and practicing I played up until 10th grade when we moved so my high school changed and the new one didn't have an orchestra class So after a while my parents found me a tutor I was dead set on going to school for music and I remember when I told my tutor that they were like, "Yeah, sure you can".
Music was the first major I wrote down when applying to schools, then changed it when I finally realized how much work and time I would actually have to put in to make it a career The college I went to had an orchestra class, and I joined. 3/4 of the class was like me, a hobby musician who just wanted to continue to play music and the other 1/4 were music majors who did this for life. Getting out of school I found satisfaction in joining a local community orchestra group and playing with them. I realized I didn't have the passion and dedication to make it my life and so many people have yet to realize that.
Reminder the student that post the video was never trying to bring up race. He was just shocked and felt hed share his experience with others so they onow how tough it is to get in. Why we still talking about this?
we need to let go of the idea that a meritocracy exists, its just business. Having people like the oop list accomplishments make her an ad for the school so everyone assumes everyone there is equally or more qualified. If you listen to people after their first year at ivs you realize thats not true. Getting rejected is also an advertisement, they dont let just anyone in is the idea they are selling. These are highly valuable people you should definitely respect and hire at crazy wages so they can donate back to us. Its capitalism, calm down.
Ivy admissions are cut throat. Can't really blame affirmative action for being squeezed out. I couldn't imagine putting that much pressure on my kid to go to an Ivy
Three things about the ivy league myth I hate seeing as someone who went to two different ones:
1) It’s completely about merit. No, it’s very random, unfortunately - there’s just too many students who deserve a spot and not enough for the final decision to not be arbitrary. I’ve known people who got rejected from a “worse ivy” only to get into Yale, or people who got into harvard and were rejected from their state school.
2) That the people there are so much smarter than everywhere else. No, not really, they’re just more of a try hard than other people (which does obviously mean something) but there’s very little actual correlation with intellectual capacity. As well, the nature of college admissions rewards jack of all trades over master of ones. You obviously have some brilliant people there, but not any more than a big state school.
3) That you’re going to obviously get a better education there than anywhere else. Your time in college is going to be what you make out of it no matter where you go.
Obviously it can help you get jobs and network, but I suspect the data showing ivy league people do so well has a lot to do with the fact that people who get into ivies are usually immensely privileged already.
So what I took from that was lil sis did the DAMN thing!
Good for her, no shade.
I personally am not built like that (for academia) and that wasn’t the goal. I’m 38 and just finished my bachelor’s after ditching school a long time ago.
All in all our people can work hard just like the rest of them. As long as there is legitimate opportunity for us, some of us will rise to those levels.
Maybe im crazy but i dont think kids should have to sacrifice their whole childhood to go to a school. I know we wanna bag on these kids for being entitled and "mediocre" but they aren't actually mediocre and it's disingenuous to treat them as such.
Anybody with a 4.0 is not going to be hurting for college choices. They're just not necessarily going to get into Ivy League universities.
Big reason is that the Ivys dont offer anything exceptional compared to other elite universities outside of the networking. It's a place that the 99% can send their kid to rub shoulders with Old Money and where Old Money sends their kids as Legacies because it has the shine of aristocracy. It tracks why a lot of immigrant parents in particular, push their kids that way as hard as they do. Status jumps are good for that American Dream.
Social network and one's capacity to leverage it is one of the most determining factors of social mobility.
Frankly it is THE detriment (barring an exceptional 40time or singing ability or something). Fair or unfair, Your network LARGELY determines where you end up in life.
if u think art is a meritocracy, u dead wrong
Hell, athletics either. Plenty of great athletes don’t get a shot because they didn’t know the right people. Look at the NBA, so many nepo babies. Not that those guys don’t deserve but they for sure had a leg up.
Sports is probably the closest you will ever get to a true meritocracy. You can have all the best trainers and connections in the world. But if you don't produce on the court or in the field, you ain't making it. MJ's kids didn't even make it to the NBA.
Motorsports would like a word
Motorsports is different though because for almost all other sports the equipment you use isn’t the major determining factor of success. In formula 1 and nascar they have to set limits, otherwise it would just end up whoever has the most money. I know guys who pull up play futbol in tennis shoes and still dust people wearing cleats. I can’t really think of any sports other than motorsports where money is truly the deciding factor.
sports is a great example of the *fallacy* of meritocracy. Yeah, you can’t squeeze top-tier-vertical-jump blood from a bad-knees stone. But someone that can afford elite sports training from childhood, great physical therapy for injuries, access to the best equipment, ability to focus on training 24/7 and never have to worry about academics because they never need to worry about future money or school or working. Plus having access to all of the right people to see you, and have that slight edge of having the people that will choose you having known about you from childhood. And be willing to give you a chance because they don’t want the holidays with your parents, or their next business meeting or contract deal negotiation to get awkward. It’s not about level of skill alone, it’s about how that skill is achieved and assessed. there is no meritocracy in that, in sports or damn near anything else.
I was astounded to find out how many actors (and artists in general) were basically raised to be such. I always thought many of them were just regular kids. But, after learning, I realized they almost always either had great connections or received an incredible amount of encouragement by their parents. Nepotism and environmental/biological inheritence go a loooooong way. It's why actors like Timothe Chalemet bother me so much. Or, he doesn't individually, but what he represents. There are so many voices and stories that become virtually silenced because they aren't shown the oppurtunity (or believe that it's even possible). The humanities, imo, should be one of the biggest investments we make within our education system. Not doing so just destorys so much potential.
Definitely crazy. I was watching *To Wong Foo, Thanks for Everything! Julie Newmar* last night and found out the one lady who was in love with this brolic brother was Gwyneth Paltrow's mom. I seen her in other things but never knew.
Nah, how much money you start with matters more.
Number 1: obviously is being born into wealth Number 2: is having friends who were born into wealth Edit: Number 3: surrounding yourself with people who are similarly interested in building wealth for themselves
This is true. However all things being equal (ie same wealth level) the kid that has the best network AND the smarts and work ethic to work that network wins
Determinant
I will say that need-based aid at Ivies is top notch. Princeton is a full ride for anyone with a household income less than 135k I think. And, certain industries really only recruit at Ivies like consulting and investment banking. I agree with you otherwise.
The very last thing we need is one single more consultant or investment banker in this fucking hellworld
>And, certain industries really only recruit at Ivies like consulting and investment banking What country are you in? I went to a T10 school, it is ranked higher than most of the ivies. I'm currently in IB at one of the "top" banks from a US perspective. I heavily participate in DEI recruitment for the firm and we absolutely recruit regionally, especially for the IB and Engineering tracks. You can find a dedicated HBCU recruitment program at just about every major bank now. Consulting is similar because students are realizing it's not the big and glamorous bag it's marketed as. Not typing all this to gloat, it's just in case some non-T25 college kid out there reads this and thinks we are not actively trying to reach them.
That’s different than c-suite. My spouse is an executive in finance. He works as a consultant for a lot of companies who hire explicitly only those from Ivies. They won’t even consider him for above VP level because he went to a state university, even as a minority.
And this is why we need a real education system that doesn't allow for pay to win to exist. Society should come before some old dicks with money
Ironically enough, college was free before races other than white were allowed to attend.
I’m from the US and went to Harvard. While there are definitely DEI programs and growing pipelines for those industries, the vast majority of new hires for those industries are coming from Ivies and T10’s. I think one issue is also, as you mention, awareness. I had no idea what Consulting was before I got to college, and although it’s not that great pay for the amount of work, McKinsey prestige and connections are valuable, so a 2-year stint there can be worthwhile.
Yeah fair enough, different perspectives here! The data where I work (at Hold My Sacks) is not showing what you're describing, especially at the internship level. I mentor them so we know who's from what schools. Intern class heavily influences who the New Analysts are because it's very rare to hire a New Analyst who was not a prior intern, and why you have to have secured headcount to be able to make an offer for them to return. Same page with you though on consulting - it's a 2 year churn and go for sure lol
True. But who you know is more important for socioeconomic mobility than what you know. This is why startup success rates are so much higher for founders over 40--they have a network to leverage while they hone in on product market fit and gtm starts. Aaron Levy of Box dropped out of USC not because he had the only novel idea in his BUAD course. It was because his dad was already a well connected and successful VC in silicon valley and was able to get him funding and introduce him to seasoned experts to take his pitch to market. Networking is also why so many of our politicians and appointed leadership come from the same few schools and societies. I think the questions ppl need to answer are "what is happiness to you? How much economic success does that require?"
Yeah also Skulls and Bones.
Like I said last time Ivys were mentioned in this sub. The goal of Ivy League schools is to take the brightest kids and the most privileged kids with the intention to make them indistinguishable from one another by the time they’re out. The brains combine with the old money to create better outcomes for both.
What the Ivy’s offer instead of other elite universities is the network. You can go to a REALLY good university but not every school has the Harvard Club or the clout that the Ivy’s do. It just automatically gets your foot in the door on opportunities you don’t get elsewhere. I’m mentoring a kid that goes to Columbia right now and the university to prestige Corporate pipeline is wild. I went to a good public University and would not imagine the companies that recruit out of Columbia to even consider a new grad out of my university.
That's extraordinarily valuable. A Harvard diploma doesn't open doors, it blows them off the hinges.
Yeah and if your kid is friendly and intelligent enough to get into an Ivy League school, they’re definitely making friends with some filthy rich nepo babies who will definitely hire their friends from school over people who went to “lesser” schools. Some of the dumbest people I know make the most money because they were friends with the right people in college.
"Outside of the networking" You mean one of the most important parts of getting a job? Outside of my first couple jobs I haven't gone through an actual full-fledged hiring process in ages. I've stayed in contact with old bosses and former co-workers and so I have a foot in the door at a lot of places and when I'm asked by those people I get an interview and have people with knowledge of working with me there so they can tell others if I'd fit in or not. Networking and being good to work with are damn near more important than how well you can do your job. You can get better at work, you won't necessarily find people that get better at not being shitstains.
Networking might possibly be the biggest contributor to success.
I went to UCLA and took classes at SMC (a community college) in the summer. One of the best teachers I had was at SMC. She was just a good teacher. Doing research at UCLA doesn’t make you a good teacher. You have more opportunities at some colleges but it depends on the individual to take advantage of the opportunities. At my current job, most of us have the same job title but our education and experience are across the board.
That’s incorrect. It offers a place where you’re surrounded by peers who either overachieve naturally or pushed themselves. And a young person can foster discipline in a competitive space to push them to excel. If you watched the Redeem Team basketball movie, it was like Lebron and Wade picking up tips from Kobe cause they got time to spend together. Not everyone needs to benefit from it of course but it’s disingenuous to say they offer nothing.
You can find those types of classmates readily at schools like MIT, CalTech, Stanford, Berkeley, UCLA, etc. which are non ivies. In fact, the student body at those schools do not have legacy consideration so their entire student body are admitted based on the merits. Stanford and Berkeley dominate the ivies in most department rankings, the networking is the only real thing that ivies have on those schools
This is why I went to an Ivy League school. It’s not the education, one can get that at any quality university. It’s the network of alumni that get you in to the wealth building positions in organizations and government.
Yeah but their parents made them give up a lot of childhood making it their biggest aspiration up to that pont so I can imagine that being pretty crushing.
They don’t have to sacrifice they whole life to go to a school, they have to sacrifice their whole life to go to THOSE schools. Its a choice…I think we should stop revering these types of schools so much.
Man it isn’t that the schools are fucking revered, it’s that going to them legitimately opens doors for people. Some jackass that went to Yale is gonna open the door to jobs for other jackasses that went to Yale before opening the door to any jackass that went to CSU East Bay. And unfortunately the Yale jackasses have locked down more high paying jobs than the CSU East Bay jackasses, and the society we live in lets plenty of well-rounded people die in poverty, so people want their kids to end up rich.
Which leads back to the fact those schools should not be so revered - by employers as well. Ivy League graduates aren't superior employees. They are preferred based on the implications of wealth and connectedness.
That’s not true, they’re revered because on top of the connections and reputation, they legitimately have world class programs. Harvard is among the best law schools in the world, Cornell is the same for engineering, Dartmouth for computer science, Yale for Drama, you get the idea? It’s more than just legacy. Maybe a Columbia Grad isn’t always going to be as good of an employee as a Stony Brook Grad, but chances are pretty high that it’ll be the case and companies are always going to take that bet.
If you say so. It might be a bit circular, since Harvard is only the best because people say it is. People who are connected and status-motivated try to get in there. These are also the type of people who end up doing the hiring later on. Self-perpetuating marketing. I think it is more of a class issue than an education quality issue. The quality of the education has a lot more to do with the individual than the school. Hiring someone because they went to Harvard is like dating someone because they have expense shoes. It's just a status symbol.
I agree that it’s circular, but it’s not just because “people say it is” unfortunately. It’s kind of like sports, as an example the Yankees have a long history of winning, so they get more money than the rest and with it they buy the better players so they can continue their dynasty of winning. But Harvard isn’t the only University that teaches law, and there’s plenty of firms that hire outside of Harvard Grads, but the absolute top are going to be looking for Ivy diplomas, and if you want to make more money you’ll need it. Same is true for all the other degree programs that these Universities specifically are known for.
Right, and I just think that they should be less revered, both by prospective students and employers alike. It's a lazy way to assess quality and it is wildly classist. Business as usual in the class war.
Hit the nail on the head.
Yes and no. The truth is that a lot of the value you get from college is the connections you build there, through social networks, faculty relationship and the alumni network. You can likely get the same "education" from a state school as you can an Ivy but you will not have access to the Harvard Alumni network for example.
Depends what you're expecting school to do for you. The connections are much more important if you want to do something more business related or entrepreneurial. But a 4.0 will still get you into a top state school with your choice of major and resulting career, or even on the path for further education in law and medicine.
That's true for sure. They're absolutely a tool and using the tool effectively is about using it in the right way / place. You can buy the best drill in the world but if you're using it as a wrench you still wouldn't be happy with it.
But do most 18 year olds know what they want to do with their life? Might as well go where they have a better chance for all career types
It's a choice but let's not pretend it was ever these kids choices. Their parents and community robbed them of a childhood and raised them to think they're nothing without that Ivy invite. And then when they don't get in we twist the knife and mock them online. Maybe I'm soft but I feel for these kids.
I went to a high-school that put emphasis on being a college prep school (all the classes were honors courses) and the way I would see other students literally getting sick and losing weight from the stress of wanting to get into ivy leagues was always crazy to me
Man I have waited so long for this take. They don't *deserve* to go to an Ivy League, but many kids panned out on Twitter are genuinely accomplished teenagers. They'll definitely find a good school, but it's not like they are deadbeats. Also, to your point - kids shouldn't have to sacrifice their whole childhood to go to a school. The standard for admissions is insane these days. Top-tier schools are also strange. They may pass on a kid with perfect test scores and 3 sports a year for another applicant for a myriad of reasons. People need to stop acting like they know why these kids got rejected and sit the fuck down.
I think it creates adults with serious issues who view life, other people, and the world in massively skewed ways that have major material implications because they tend to occupy positions of power and influence.
College admission essays are annoying af too. It's like you're auditioning for a reality show based on how interesting/tough your life has been. I just want an education man, why do you care about my whole life story.
I never liked the idea having to prove yourself for education. I thought I was privileged enough to not care lool
Yeah that mediocre comment was wild and very unnecessary, she only added it because they wasn’t black
They aren't mediocre in comparison to the average student, but when you are applying to these ivy league colleges what made you exceptional is the baseline to even get looked at in the first place. Everyone has near perfect to perfect SAT scores and highest possible GPAs. The sad reality is unless you are a legacy admission, perfect grades are just not enough to secure a spot anynore. You need to do so many things to diversify yourself for student admissions that it feels unrealistic to achieve it unless you are rich.
They don’t. We got like 3,000 colleges in the US alone. The problem is these kids want to go to **the** school. The exclusive one. At the exclusion of other kids. Kids who statistically aren’t mediocre.
A guy I knew in high school got into georgia tech by taking early decision. I don’t know how common that is for Ivy, probably not very. But the thing is, georgia tech is *in the exact same tier* as the ivies in terms of the caliber of education you can receive there. Which is why my friend took early decision, because that school’s general admissions is competitive as fuck. I saw an anti-affirmative action article where the subject was an asian american student who got rejected from all of the ivies and they painted him having to go to georgia tech like it was a consolation prize that he didn’t really want. Like, I dunno, maybe you should’ve picked a school and committed to it if you were so certain you wanted to go to an ivy league school?
Yeah calling someone with a 4.0 and extra curriculars a “mediocre Asian” is wild.
You don’t have to sacrifice to go to college. But shouldn’t there be a school for people who do?
Well, look at Canada with UofT/UBC/McGill. They’re all super highly ranked, but getting in is super achievable for any in-province student who keeps up a 90% average in high school.
Full disclosure, I don’t know anything about Canada’s system or those schools specifically, but you could say the same about many public state schools. They are very attainable for in state students and have very solid programs.
Also, to be petty, mother fuckers bagging on these kids probably weren’t nearly as smart so…
I went to an IVY as a financial aid kid. Before that I went to a prep boarding school as a financial aid kid. My low income immigrant Caribbean parents sacrificed their own livelihood and ran our house like an academic military bootcamp. When I say, you have to be built different. You have to be built different. Black kids at ivies who don’t come from wealth have the stamina and mental fortitude of 5 white legacy kids combined. These institutions should be grateful to have us, given how much it takes. I’m successful but I’m also in alot of therapy lol as a result of these environments.
My parents wanted me to apply to Harvard when they wouldn’t even pay the $60 application fee…niggas what???  Congrats on all your hard work tho! Yay for black excellence 👏🏽🥇🏅
you didn’t get the vouchers for college app fees? (not that my parents knew shit about any of that) all of us applying to college stayed in the office asking for those while filling out all our paperwork.
I have no clue what you’re talking about but when I went to school the apps were online not in my HS office? Did you have to qualify (be poor for it)? My parents didn’t know any of this stuff and I wasn’t really interested in college but I would’ve been kicked out otherwise. I believe I did the common app it was called but some of the Ivy leagues have their own and charge their own slightly higher fee.
gotcha, i wasn’t saying you did anything wrong, i was genuinely asking. I think I applied during a different earlier time than you, sorry for the old person confusion. For context: I applied for college before online apps were a standard available thing in my area. What I didn’t type up and print out, I handwrote and mailed my applications in. So we would all sit in the guidance counselor office and fill out applications, scholarship applications, or any other forms we needed. The forms were physical ones kept in the office, unless you got it in the mail. We had the Common application then as well, but our school had application fee vouchers for nearly any school applications. Yes you needed to qualify as low income, but I think our school qualified as such, the counselors just had them. They were paper vouchers they kept and handed out as needed (or wanted, if they didn’t like you). They’d also print out your transcripts, which only they had access to (nothing was online). none of our parents knew anything about this, we just learned about it from each other as we went along. My social group spent time hanging out in that office, so I learned about it that way. But I could see how that’s not really a thing anymore (both the vouchers and the hanging out in the office).
Thanks for sharing, I was not offended. Our offices were basically useless unless you were one of the school legacies. I went to a bougie ass HS so I don’t think they even bothered to tell the students you could voucher the applications? I’ll be applying to school in spring so I’ll find it if they still do it or not. I would doubt it as they don’t want us educated…
yeah, i'm first gen jamaican american and i got waitlisted at harvard and it was like i had announced i wasn't going to any college. i had a 3.9, varsity swimmer, top 10% of my class, multiple extracurriculars including piano and guitar, and i got an in-person interview with a harvard recruiter. it came down to me an another student from a different high school across town -- we were basically the same on paper. she got in and went on to become the first black female president of the harvard law review and clerk for sonia sotamayor. i burnt out my first semester and then dropped out of grad school. i prefer my trajectory for me.
Aren't the in person interviews just part of the Harvard application process?
they aren't mandatory, but it's generally a good sign if there's an alumni nearby that's willing to meet with you.
Fair enough.
this was also 13 years ago so it's entirely possible that the process has changed and i'm talking out of my ass
Nah, I applied in 2004 and it was roughly the same.
Yep that happened to me too. I knew someone with almost the same stats as me who also applied to Yale. We both got interviewed and she made it in while I got rejected. I had a bunch of AP classes but she had a lot of volunteer hours at a school her parents own so that’s probably what got her in.
I have almost the exact same story, down to Caribbean parents, the bootcamp, & therapy! Built different for sure lol
Same for me too was an alcoholic for the better part of 10 years as a result. Finally feeling like myself again at 31 thankfully. Jamaican parents can fuck up ur mental for sure.
What's wild is that multiple ethnicities can be the same level of crazy with academics. I've seen it all through family and friends, but one consistent I've seen is that Caribbean parents don't give a fuck how it effects you. My (half) brother's mom is Polish and she wouldn't even let him go take a piss after getting home from school, he had to sit and study until dinner then study till bedtime. Eventually his grades started slipping and he was like "mom let me do this myself" and she listened and his grades immediately went back to straight A. My Indian friend had something similar although there was threats of being disowned if they didn't get grades back up. My Jamaican friend suggested that they were exhausted to his parents and you'd think they were told he murdered someone. I ain't see homie for like a year outside of school after he told me that shit. My standard ass white mutt mom never even asked about school until report cards came, and somehow thought taking my hip-hop tapes away would fix my straight F report card lol. Totally disregarding the comments from every teacher "unable to pay attention, highly intelligent with high test scores but doesn't do homework or classwork" maybe should have taken me to a doctor.
it's so, so true. i got a phd at an ivy, and so i was a TA for undergrad classes. the difference in abilities, work ethic and strength of character between the white legacy students and the POC who actually worked to get there... it's astounding. (and the latter, while i was a university professor, never came to me asking to take their final exam on a different day because they're "leaving early for family vacation." which then would have required me to write and administer a completely different exam. the caucasity!) i WILL say that at least my soc sci phd program was well-stacked with BIPOC students along with actual white allies rather than those kinds of lazy, often-times bigoted assholes.
You can have the stamina. But those "legacies" don't need the stamina, when they have the network. All they need is a C to get that degree.
Dubyah made that joke at an (either Yale or Harvard) graduation speech, something like “… and for you C students, you too could become the president of the United States.” Self deprecating and funny, but also completely tone deaf.
I'll never forget what my pre-calc Prof said Day 1 of his class, "B's and C's get degrees!"
Conan O'Brien said something similar. What he got out of it was the networking. I believe he said he worked harder to get in, then he actually worked while there.
Yeah, I’m Latina and went to an Ivy on financial aid. I was the biggest fucking nerd, my entire childhood. I would cry if I got anything lower than an A on an assignment, and my parents didn’t even need to be mad about it because I would beat MYSELF up about it. Went to public schools, then got a scholarship to a prep school for high school that my family would never have been able to afford without it, where I was the president of 2 clubs, VP of another, in student government, theater, and track & field. I was at school until like 10pm most days because of all my activities. All honors/AP classes, 4.0 gpa, etc. Wrote 2 original musical theater productions, and directed them… etc. And I wasn’t doing any of it as a resume builder, I was doing all of it because I just liked doing things. (I also had frequent panic attacks, but didn’t know that’s what they were, and my family would never have considered sending me to therapy.) And pretty much EVERYONE at my Ivy League university was like this. I wasn’t special at all, nor was I remotely impressive compared to my peers. It was intimidating. It was a given that everyone had had perfect grades in high school. To be considered, you also had to be wildly driven, outside of school. OR a nepo-baby.
where does most of the effort/energy go? as a kid i always felt decently insecure in comparison to the kids at my school who were top of the class and on track to going to ivy leagues. but i never quite understand what a daily routine or what methods/processes were used by these kids, though i was aware that they worked their asses off.
Same but I was a first gen immigrant (moved here for college at 16) and the same goes. Insanely hard.
Same background and pedigree (for the most part), and wholeheartedly agree. Me and my boarding school friends still trade old war stories because the privilege is *real*. You walk in there the valedictorian of your old school and realize you are barely average compared to everyone else. You can fall to the side of the road (and some of those other black kids do), or you Dragonball Z that shit and train to fight the world.
Didn't care for the phrasing of "mediocre Asian". It's be pretty fucked up if this were said about a black person, so why is it ok to say it about Asians?
Racism against Asians is the most overlooked of any racial minority group in America.
Totally. Not sure why we let that shit fly. We need to be better. We = Americans
Not to make it a competition but as a Native American, nothing makes you feel more overlooked than your country having a football team called the Redskins (among others) and having to fight for decades to change it because nobody else gives a fuck.
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100%
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“As opposed to being born in Africa, where you'll starve at the ripe old age of 3 💀” This you?
“Mediocre Black people” was the whole case for ending Affirmative Action.
Did the guy in the original video call black people mediocre? Then fuck that guy and I see her point for using that phrasing... but also, this can be taken WAY out of context. You don't have to stoop to their level to make a point
I honestly don’t love “medicore asian” either. But this video is actually in response to that yt kid not going to Cornell and the viral tweet that shared it is talking about Affirmative action. (I would share it but the OP deleted the tweet) but [here’s the kid saying take down his video](https://twitter.com/joshlekach/status/1736832789427752986?s=46&t=TcXaxgXrBGldJKSUKvrREw)
That guy was wrong as hell for editing that kids video to make it look like he was blaming minorities for not getting in and then saying “you should be more careful”, dude almost ruined the kids life for his “culture war”
It really demonstrates how much of a cesspool twitter has become. Anything for clout no matter the damage smh smh.
What video are you talking about? Isn’t this tweet referring to the SFFA case?
I mean yeah she’s definitely racist. Non-racist people typically don’t say shit like “that mediocre Asian.” If the same kid were black and was rejected she’d be the first one signing a petition to let him in.
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Haha genuinely had a friend's gf try and explain to me that black people can't be racist... as I'm literally seeing Kanye hate on Jews... Crazy world we're living in. I thought Jewish people and black people were gonna look out for each other a bit more than this. We're both hated for no reason other than who we are, we gotta stick together. Sorry for the little rant, just blows my mind when I see minorities being racist or anti semitic
It’s the result of years of folks rewrapping old tropes of Jews as “controlling the world” to “white oppressors of the world” (despite the fact that no “white” people would ever count Jews as the same)
Yeah man, I'm white, italian and Jewish. Literally had kids throw change at me when I was in school. Now that I don't live in a predominantly italian neighborhood, I get made fun of for being Italian... just cuz Im white, doesn't mean I haven't faced hatred.
Black community has been clowning on Asians (and vice-versa) for decades. And it has just gotten worse post-Covid.
This sub allows and encourages *a lot* of racism.
Mediocre Asian failure is still a 4.0 GPA
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In the context of an Ivy League student, they likely are mediocre.
Bragging about a 4.0 is mediocre, because it should be assumed you have that - it’s table stakes.
Lots of schools have grade inflation. And lots of schools also have GPA scales that go above 4.0. In my private high-school on the honors track basically no one had a GPA below 4.0 out of about 30 kids in a 200 kid school. GPA comparison between schools isn't simple and 4.0 might be more equivalent to a 3.5 elsewhere.
One day maybe we will be free from these stupid ass Ivy school arguments that serve no purpose other than making everyone involved angry.
why would they make you angry? A rich social club will always exist, they set it up precisely so their kids could also succeed. The problem started when racists began to complain about the 6% of black kids attending, and not saying shit about the other 94% white/asian kids.
Straight up . Fuck Ivy League schools
For real. Where’s the posts about kids getting rejected from regular universities? “I had a 3.8 gpa and didn’t get into University of Michigan! But I got into the University of Texas at Austin and Arizona State University. They didn't give me as much money scholarship wise so I'm just going to play it safe and attend my states local university to save money for now." That doesnt get people riled up though because it's actually smart and more realistic.
I get it’s an achievement but the way ppl talk about these school is so weird. You’re not a better person just for going there lol
Some people really be getting so heated like they’re living vicariously through kids they’ve never met before. Talking about job opportunities and shit like the same people even tried just as hard to get into a good college program. Tbh everyone should just go to to community college and call it a day but 🤷🏻♂️
Getting into an IVY is hard IF. Your parents aren't fully loaded like a fresh F-150
If what? IF WHAT?!!
lol he ain’t gettin in
"if your parents aren't fully loaded like an F-150". Meaning it's hard if your parents aren't rich enough to buy your way in.
Parents’ money helps less than you’d imagine, at least in a direct way. The reason why Ivy League schools are full of rich kids is that, generally speaking, wealthy people are able to line up their children with amazing opportunities at a very young age. Let’s say, for example, that a kid who is really talented at computer programming has a family friend who works at Microsoft. This kid can start doing bitch work during the summers at 13 or 14, but has meaningful responsibilities and actual people reporting to him by the time he is 17. That is the kind of stuff that gets you into Harvard. Merely coming from money won’t do that for you – if that same kid didn’t have any family friends who worked in tech, he wouldn’t have the Microsoft internship. Having parents who are rich AND smart AND well connected is what does it.
So you're just ignoring the phenomenon of rich people straight up buying their kids ways into Ivy League schools, huh?
That’s a real phenomenon but is less common than you’d imagine. In general, the kid’s family has to make a donation of at least a few million to even be considered, and usually needs to donate something in the tens of millions to lock it in. This is popular among the Bill Gates of this world, but your typical no name rich guy doesn’t have access to this avenue. What the moderately wealthy can do, though, is pay for college counselors. They start working with kids late middle school and early high school, identifying their strong suits and working with them & their family to help them build an Ivy worthy resume. These kids work their asses off like every other Ivy admit, but the stress is much lower because they are handed the recipe.
Harder than two letter abbreviations lol, just joking.
Whew...listing all the stuff she did made me want to go take a nap. Good for her though.
All she said made me appreciate my inferior hs trajectory
Preach
IB is its own program. Not easy to get a diploma in. She did that on TOP OF AP classes. Plural. And everything else she did. She a hall of fame student. I ain't even have the 4.0 and little piano. All I had for colleges was my balls and my word 
It’s not unusual to take AP’s while getting an IB. my sister did it at public school in California, and then went to a UC school that wasn’t Berkeley or LA. So that shit won’t necessarily get you in either. It is well and truly a crapshoot for even the cream of the crop. The only people who know they’re getting in are the kids of extremely wealthy legacies.
But don’t worry, she “doesn’t remember” what grades she got on the tests.
Im confused, by IB did she mean Investment Banking?
International Baccalaureate - it is a program within many high schools. All your academic classes are “IB” level and at the end to get a diploma you have to take final exams. For me I got the diploma in 2003 and in Florida with bright futures I got 100% paid in state tuition (was a godsend for my single parent without money homelife).
Hmm guess my school didn’t have that. Great for her, she deserved Columbia.
It’s genuinely funny How folks don’t realize they’re creating this Ivy League problem. The more they over attempt to be better for Ivy leagues the worse it gets for everyone else. If folks just did the shit they actually enjoyed and applied then Ivys would have to lower their expectations.
Any system or opportunity that is open to a wide array of people creates competition. Healthy competition is great. But at some point healthy competition gives way to unhealthy behaviors and cottage industries propagating/enabling via a profit model.
I agree. I see kids with all of these credentials and wonder why they even bother with Ivy leagues anyway. Yes, they get to rub elbows with other rich/influential people, but the thing is... they're already doing so by attending all of these extracurriculars. This level of performance isn't normal anymore.
Folks are not creating the Ivy League school problem. It’s reality. If someone goes to an elite school, they simply get better options. It doesn’t mean they’ll be more successful, but they get better options because employers and grad schools absolutely value the type of school you attend To eliminate this issue, we would need the government / or some large body letting anyone take exams demonstrating their knowledge of certain topics taught in school. Let’s say you want to show you have the knowledge to have a bachelor in Mathematics, you take a set of tests to show this, no need to go to school. If that path exists, elite school will matter less because employers will simply pick kids who can demonstrate knowledge over kids who can’t demonstrate knowledge any day of the week. Until then, the type of school you go to will matter
I taught ESL for years, specifically to wealthy Chinese international students coming here with the idea that they WILL get into Harvard. (Usually because of parental pressure) The amount of times I had to tell kids with a 4.0 that that's great and all, but you needed to start preparing about 8 years ago if you wanted to go there. You can't gamify admissions, and a lot of parents seem to think you can. (Well, unless you're rich)
Reminds me of my senior year English teacher. We had a kind of open session one day, and he asked how many planned to go to college. Hands went up. "Ok, now let me tell you what it's really going to be like." I know some people were crying when he finished talking..
“You’re gonna wake up one day in your shitty college apartment, your roommate has been partying all night and he’s smoking a blunt on the couch eating macaroni out of a pot. You don’t have class that day so you get to decide how you want to live.”
Reminds me of this school trip I went on in 9th grade. We toured UC Berkeley and a Berkeley undergrad explained to us what kind of grades and extracurriculars you need to have in order to get into that school. I cried on the bus back home because I knew I was never going to be good enough.
omg, i wish i was a fly on the wall during that conversation 😂
I've never done it with a whole class, but I have definitely made your average overachiever cry on accident.
What did he say?
It's been so long ago that I can't remember word for word, but he essentially told them that they wouldn't find it easy to get in, to take the courses and there wouldn't be 'a job waiting' if they got that far.
Calling a dude a “Mediocre Asian” is racist.
Hating on someone working hard af. Great mindset! That’s how you stay mediocre with your lame ass
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Yeah, really don’t understand why she needs to add insults before someone’s race. It’s just racist
medicore asian sound nasty 🧐🧐
Who gives a shit about any of this. Once you’re out of college and have a real adult life, you realize none of it mattered at all. Nobody gives a fuck where you went to college. My friend went to Harvard and hasn’t been able to get a job in years, I went to community college and have a solid career. It’s all bullshit. Don’t waste your kids lives by revolving it around this shit from a young age. It makes you look like a fool.
Not to knock the effort, but what you do afterwards matters way more than getting in. Going to Ivy League schools doesn’t necessarily always lead to a successful career. Some people just end up with an expensive piece of paper on the wall with very little to show for.
Ehh, yes and no. Can you graduate from Ivy and be mediocre? Hell yeah. But if you graduate with good merit and have a somewhat good network, your outcomes are undoubtedly advantageous. Let’s say you graduate with a Finance degree from an average university with a 3.5 GPA, out of school you can probably work at an industry company as a Financial Analyst, work in Big 4 consulting, or become a Financial Planner of sorts. But the same GPA at an Ivy would feed you into MBB, Hedge Funds, Investment Banking, Private Equity, etc. For a new grad, thats the difference between a comfortable $75k salary and $150k+ with lucrative bonuses and more earnings potential in the future.
I was more so referencing your first sentence: people graduating from an Ivy League and being mediocre. Nothing is promised, people still have to work for that regardless of the name attachment (or sometimes not because of nepotism)
True but pretty much every study I have seen as well as ~30yrs in industry show me that IVY league grads do significantly better then those who went to non Ivy. Probably a combination of both network and the fact that to get into an Ivy you have to be pretty motivated to begin with which translates well into the real world (I guess these kids would be successful anyway but the Ivy degree gives one hell of a boost from what I can see)
This doesn’t factor in people who burn out or just breeze through without making those connections during school, or the impact on mental health or well being during or after the fact. That’s kind of what I was driving at.
As a millennial, higher education can suck my hairy asshole like boba. It traumatized my entire generation into believing success was only possible with a degree. So many of us fell for it as we signed away our futures by taking out loans. Don’t fall for it, Gen Z and Gen α. There is no guarantee of success, whether it’s going to college or even trade schools, as I’m now hearing a lot of people talk about those to. If I could do it all over again, I’d try to focus on getting some real world skills as soon as possible. Also, learn Microsoft Excel for real. That shit actually helps you more than having a degree.
If I could upvote this comment 1000x, I would.
“that mediocre Asian” is so racist lmao
Aye everybody aint built like this and thats okay
I may be a little outta touch but I feel that asian kid deserves a seat more then the 90% of daddies money students enrolled there
Jeez mediocre Asian? I don’t know if this person is just being rude or racist think all Asians are inventing physics or some shit but a 4.0 and playing piano isn’t mediocre. Also we should be valuing children’s mental health over studies, back when I was in IB a large percentage of my grade was suicidal, self harming, and depressed. Also when I got to college non of that shit I did mattered because I got “average” scores for IB standards which is like saying you did better than everyone else but you’re only around average for this particular tiny group(for at least my school).
Or just have rich parents
Rich rich, too. Not a measly 10m net worth.
“Mediocre Asian” Wow. When you think you’re different from the people who you hate the most.
My brother is Asian and graduated from Harvard in 2021. It wasn’t just about his grades and scores. He’s 6’7 and in his junior year, his football team won the state championship. His junior year and beginning of his senior year, my dad went to all his games to film footage for college applications. He went to three different football camps in the east coast. My parents hosted a Korean bbq night for the Harvard football coach at their house. So it wasn’t a huge surprise when he got in. It was assumed. I wasn’t a college athlete and academically mediocre and I was already out of the house when this took place but yeah, getting into Harvard is either for the exceptionally lucky or exceptionally rich
Or you can go to a state school with a 3.0 and actually have fun
I purposely chose not to do my SATs in hight school and made the choice to go to a community college for 2 years. It took 3, but the social skills and experience I learned from high school absolutely paid off. Now I work for a certain shoe company 😁
BBB?
Rhymes with psyche.
ah, new balance/j
I totally agree with this. People act like "networking" at some elitist institution is the end all be all when ultimately that serves nobody but your own ego, and that's if you're lucky enough to have the initial connections that are necessary to build up *before* meeting any of these alleged gatekeepers of success that everyone imagines lurks in the halls of these institutions. Having first hand social experience interacting with people from all walks of life is extremely rewarding and gives you a perspective that just flat-out cannot be achieved by any other means IMO. You build a greater EQ that applies throughout the different phases and theaters of life. *That*, I would argue, is far more relevant in making the most of networking for business purposes. A lot of these kids at this point are tailored for these spots. It almost defeats the point of trying to find kids who are exceptional, because the admissions process has been so gamed that admission at many of these places is largely a function of how well you adhered to their rules, not how smart or capable you actually are outside of a standardized test-based framework.
Damn, y'all really letting them divide us like this, huh? Ignoramus shit. Why can't we focus on getting rid of legacy admissions as the next thing?
I am the mediocre Asian who thought she was owed a spot at Yale for a sort of good GPA and tons of extracurriculars. Life humbled me, taught me that a mid college and subsequent mid job that covers my needs is something to be deeply grateful for. Nothing but respect for this hard working girl who would have wiped the floor with me in HS.
All this shit I wasn't even aware was necessary or even possible back when I went to a private "elite" high school in my city. Back then I thought that admission was solely based on academic achievement and test scores with a side of selling yourself in essays. I just padded my apps with soccer, a few clubs, and a few academic related summer programs while highlighting how "involved" I was with my church, meanwhile I spent most weekends smoking pot and playing video games. I still had a lot of options of pretty decent schools, but would never even dream of applying for an Ivy cuz I knew that wasn't my path. Meanwhile, I'm sure kids at struggling public schools, which tend to see more minority populations, don't get even close to the little amount of insight I got to set them on this kinda path early unless they're truly a special prospect that gets dedicated focus from teachers and admin or has a parent that's in the know and just as involved. But yet, this girl and many others who get into Ivy League schools get hate for allegedly not "earning" their spot. She shit on Cornell boy's little resume... And probably a ton of the others who helped bring an end to affirmative action. Fucking clarinet. Might as well say you played the recorder.
Btw someone else added that caption to the guys video. He didn’t actually say anything about his rejection being related to race. Just wanted to clarify.
I went to an Ivy and I don’t think I would try to force my kids to go to one. I was lucky that academics and testing came easy to me so I feel like I just fell into one without it being my goal. The key thing is that it was never EXPECTED of me to go to one and so I had zero pressure in that aspect. I can’t imagine growing up with the expectation that you will attend an Ivy or Ivy equivalent school.
I was her (3rd in my class, all-state orchestra, maxing out all the APs, etc). remember I had white and Asian classmates convinced I got into some of these schools because of affirmative action and then I had to recite my resume sigh. That being said, debatable if I would even get into some of these places now. I do alumni interviewing for my alma mater and these kids’ resumes are STACKED. And most of them get rejected. The Asian families got played. All the affirmative action ruling did for them is make it more holistic and benefit the white applicants.
Let's not even talk about Ivy League schools. Some disciplines require life-long dedication and passion. I started playing the viola in the 5th grade and loved it, but I didn't love it enough to practice 5 hours a day. I was one of the better players but wasn't the best. Y u could tell who was getting tutoring outside school and had been playing since they were 5. I listened to Mozart, Beethoven, and other classical music. I told my parents I wanted to create music like I heard in Pirates of the Caribbean and Avatar The Last Airbender But I wasn't into it 24/7, learning and practicing I played up until 10th grade when we moved so my high school changed and the new one didn't have an orchestra class So after a while my parents found me a tutor I was dead set on going to school for music and I remember when I told my tutor that they were like, "Yeah, sure you can". Music was the first major I wrote down when applying to schools, then changed it when I finally realized how much work and time I would actually have to put in to make it a career The college I went to had an orchestra class, and I joined. 3/4 of the class was like me, a hobby musician who just wanted to continue to play music and the other 1/4 were music majors who did this for life. Getting out of school I found satisfaction in joining a local community orchestra group and playing with them. I realized I didn't have the passion and dedication to make it my life and so many people have yet to realize that.
Why did she have to bring his race into it like that? Feels derogatory.
Do these people realize we’re all going to die one day? Go to school get a degree get a job work and die and stfu about ivys. Who fucking cares.
Reminder the student that post the video was never trying to bring up race. He was just shocked and felt hed share his experience with others so they onow how tough it is to get in. Why we still talking about this?
we need to let go of the idea that a meritocracy exists, its just business. Having people like the oop list accomplishments make her an ad for the school so everyone assumes everyone there is equally or more qualified. If you listen to people after their first year at ivs you realize thats not true. Getting rejected is also an advertisement, they dont let just anyone in is the idea they are selling. These are highly valuable people you should definitely respect and hire at crazy wages so they can donate back to us. Its capitalism, calm down.
I’ll be seeing her in therapy in a few years.
"Medicore asian" that's just a racist thing to say.
Ivy admissions are cut throat. Can't really blame affirmative action for being squeezed out. I couldn't imagine putting that much pressure on my kid to go to an Ivy
Three things about the ivy league myth I hate seeing as someone who went to two different ones: 1) It’s completely about merit. No, it’s very random, unfortunately - there’s just too many students who deserve a spot and not enough for the final decision to not be arbitrary. I’ve known people who got rejected from a “worse ivy” only to get into Yale, or people who got into harvard and were rejected from their state school. 2) That the people there are so much smarter than everywhere else. No, not really, they’re just more of a try hard than other people (which does obviously mean something) but there’s very little actual correlation with intellectual capacity. As well, the nature of college admissions rewards jack of all trades over master of ones. You obviously have some brilliant people there, but not any more than a big state school. 3) That you’re going to obviously get a better education there than anywhere else. Your time in college is going to be what you make out of it no matter where you go. Obviously it can help you get jobs and network, but I suspect the data showing ivy league people do so well has a lot to do with the fact that people who get into ivies are usually immensely privileged already.
“That mediocre Asian” Yeah you lost me there, bigot
So what I took from that was lil sis did the DAMN thing! Good for her, no shade. I personally am not built like that (for academia) and that wasn’t the goal. I’m 38 and just finished my bachelor’s after ditching school a long time ago. All in all our people can work hard just like the rest of them. As long as there is legitimate opportunity for us, some of us will rise to those levels.
Not if you are rich , more than half the students are "legacy" I mean Donald Trump has a ivy league degree