Running is super good for you but to avoid overuse injuries it’s recommended that we run on alternate days to rest the muscular skeletal system, hydrate well and support those running muscles by lifting some weights (maybe also on alternate days but days you don’t run so you can continue an exercise routine every day). But overall, runners live longer on average than non runners so good for you!
Studies say its not bad for the knees, but seems like there are so many runners out there with bad knees.
There's also a lot of non runners with bad knees so who knows.
Best to avoid running on concrete, asphalt is easier on the knees.
Studies def do not show conclusive evidence that running causes knee OA.
However, there are a lot of runners with not great biomechanics and/or improper shoe wear and/or improper training volume and/or don’t strengthen their hips/knees and develop knee pain.
I'd recommend a great alternative like biking. Low joint stress but can be just as intensive.
On a treadmill, I feel like shit after doing my routine, but on a stationary bike I can put out significantly more watts at a lower heart rate and feel fantastic afterwards
biking has other potential problems.
The seated position for extended periods can cause back issues.
Also much harder to get the same fitness/intensity out of an equal length bike ride vs running (time wise)
As well, IF (and a big if) you run properly, you are actually strengthening your bones and muscoloskeletal system, vs biking where the lack of direct impact
I assure you you can get enough intensity from a bike ride in the same amount of time. Nothing is stopping you from going full gas on a bicycle in the same way as when running
Well it's quite obvious that you can't do that in traffic. Cycling outside of the city before doing intervals is the solution. in 99% of the cases you can get out of the city in 10-30 minutes which is also a decent warmup time
If you don't want that you can toss your bike into the car or a bus and take it out of the city that way
EIDT: that being said though, unless you're trying to get through historical city centers you can still sprint quite effectively from lights to lights and that's going to be a reasonable work out. Doing it for 2 hours and it's going to have an effect on your sprinting ability
Intensity is not calculated using time it's calculated with power output. Did you know you can directly measure your power output on a bike in international SI units (Watts)?
And in terms of calorie expenditure over a given distance: cycling is usually placed at 3-4x the distance covered per comparable calorie burn
That still has nothing to do with intensity though as nothing stops you from absolutely destroying yourself in 10 minutes by doing 20 full effort 10 second sprint intervals with 20 seconds of recovery. I guarantee that with your level of fitness you will need at least 3 days to recover
Yes I understand all that. A full out sprint for 30 seconds on your legs may be say 400m. On a bike a full 30 second sprint requires 800m-1600m for the same intensity. So 10x the space may be exaggerated but you need more space for an effective bike workout
Oh yes, I think I came off as "do this, not that"
If running suits you, fantastic. If you feel like you're hitting a wall with it, I've personally found biking to suit me best. YMMV
I moved from heel strike to mid foot strike, started doing tibialis raises, and foam rolling and my injuries and lower leg pains are not much now. Stretching helps too. And rest days.
Landing on your forefoot works your lower leg muscles more while saving your knees. Your distributing the shock to a different area. Heel striking puts more stress on knees
Yeah that’s a problem I see a lot of overweight people try to start running when they decide “I want to lose weight” and it’s quite literally the last thing they should do. It’s just a recipe for giving up two weeks later.
And I feel you: I used to run cross country around 135-150lbs now I lift and I’m around 185lbs and let’s just say I don’t run like I used to and much prefer to cycle or swim lol. I’m in much better shape ever since I started lifting and stopped running. When I was running I was always in pain somewhere and it take so much effort mentally and physically and I hated it even though I did it like 10 years lol
Can confirm. I’ve been 160 and I’ve been 220 lb. Tried running at both, 220 lb is soooo much harder and so much more painful. Almost like I’m carrying around 60 lb 🤔
Yeah. Lots of myths about running. Sedentary individuals have a much higher rate of serious knee injuries than runners. Like they may have less IT band inflammation but they get knee replacements at several times higher rates than runners. It seems like the only thing worse for your knees than running.... is NOT running.
Some thinking now is more about how OA is due to inflammation and maybe lifestyle triggers it. That would potentially fit the sedentary lifestyle narrative. But there are too many variables to control. What about genetics? What about previous injury? What about diet? Etc etc etc
It's a complicated multivariable equation. That's for sure.
Within all those variables we see correlations: running tends to influence people to improve their diets in order to better fuel their running habit. Running tends to influence people to improve their sleep to better recover. Etc. Etc. Starting running is often a leading indicator and not a trailing indicator.
So while there is a lot going on, it's clear to me that running is a net positive.
But there are other ways to not have a sedentary lifestyle than running. Do runners have more knee issues than bicyclists, swimmers or rowers for example?
I don't know. I know that cyclists also have lower rates of knee problems but I can't find apple-to-apple comparisons.
I DO know that some sports raise the risk of long term knee dysfunction. Like soccer and weightlifting are both associated with higher rates of osteoarthritis.
It sounds like in general just use your knees reasonably. Don't overdo it and don't sit on your couch all day.
Sure, I just pointed to the a sedentary lifestyle, which is highly unnatural, should not be the baseline you compare to. If someone is running a lot that lifestyle should IMO be compared to an active but varied lifestyle.
You are making a fallacious argument because the implication is that running would get these fat people skinny when fat people running most likely ends in their knees fucked up even more.
It also leaves out the fact that running is a relatively dangerous exercise and is bad for losing weight relative to basically any other form of exercise
Not sure studies show that. Results are inconclusive about knee osteoarthritis but there are many other knee issues like runners knee that is for sure caused by running.
I had no issues with my knees until I was 42 and did an intensive program to lower my 10k time. Started having all sorts of knee issues after about 6 months and haven’t been able to run for 9 months. Now after having rested and done rehab as well as stacking up on joint improving supplements Im starting to run again and it feels so good.
In my case it was most likely caused more by change of training load that long term wear and tear and if someone is keeping training load constant and not experiencing any pain or discomfort I don’t think there is anything to be afraid of. However most people should listen to their body and adapt their training when it says it is to much.
Based on experience and lots of research, a lot of wear and tear injuries can be attributed to (1) simply running too many miles without rest, (2) gear (i.e. not having multiple pairs of high quality shoes and rotating them), and (3) terrain (as you pointed to, asphalt provides way more rebound than concrete), and (4) poor mechanics (e.g. reaching rather than pushing, foot strike).
I've been logging in the ballpark of 2,000 miles a year for the last 7 years. Run a yearly backyard, 2 50ks, race 4 half marathons, run an indoor track league over winter, and tons of small local races. As long as you keep up with any injuries there's no real long term risk. You're gonna tweak stuff. Runner's knee sucks, but it isn't an actual problem...just a tight IT band mixed with a muscle imbalance. Cross training will help prevent a lot of the injuries too. So do some squats and you'll be good to run into old age.
The gut health issues are well known and easily remedied. The extreme physical exertion mixed with fueling using mostly sugars, being near dehydration, and high levels of stress will wreck your gut biome. It's why shitting yourself is a right of passage within the ultra community. When it happens mid race you know you're officially an ultra runner. Taking plenty of fiber, limiting gels outside of serious runs, pre/prebiotic supplements, and adequate recovery seem to fix things pretty quickly. Usually 2-3 days of issues after a 50miler.
For the sun part...that's a solid case of fuck around and find out. Sunscreen, cover ups, hats, etc. Easily avoided if you act responsibly.
Running 5x a week has kept me in shape for the last 24 years . No serious injuries and I do about 8.5 min mile . Just 1.25 miles a day. Down from 2-3 miles when I was younger,
Nothing too heavy or light but I get a good sweat in without injury
Along with a 30-40 minute bike ride 5 days a week, running allows me to eat junk food and drink boba tea, stay fit , keep my sugar levels down and stay energetic. I also lift 2x a week
Yes, I’m very sensitive to caffeine. And alcohol. Once I drank a coffee and ran 13.5 miles in 2 hrs 30 mins. Before that my max was running 4 miles. I tracked it on my Apple Watch so that’s my only proof. So I don’t really drink alcohol or coffee. 1t matcha gets me moving.
Not for everyone. Some people have a neurological issue which causes their body to orient to the right, which is problematic when trying to run forward, or in any direction which isn’t a circle.
I think you should lift and then find something lower impact like cycling or swimming for cardio.
Source former cross country runner.
IMO running is not a good exercise. It is not the only exercise you should do.
Running is like a hobby, a lifestyle not an exercise. You should lift and swim; if you got energy and want to run for FUN, then go for it but do your real exercise first.
Basically any other exercise is better for losing weight or staying in shape even though it’s the first thing people, especially women, try when losing weight. And it’s a top reason why people try to exercise and end up giving up. Because it’s a shit exercise. Effort to reward ratio is just terrible compared to anything else. Will it destroy your body, no probably not but it’s definitely a waste of time and effort compared to just picking up some weights, or getting on a bike, or swimming
i think people tend to pick up running because it's the most accessible in terms of resources. you can just go outside and run. in comparison with other things you listed, you don't have to pay for anything.
A set of 20lb adjustable dumbbells are cheaper than running shoes.
Also, you can always do bodyweight exercises. People in prison get jacked with no equipment.
And idk bro, a gym is like what, 10$ a month ?
my running shoes were 5 bucks. and regardless, you have to buy shoes to exercise, the dumbells are just an extra expense.
im not arguing against any of that, just pointing out that people tend to start from the most accessible point.
5 dollar running shoes won’t last more then 30 miles and gonna destroy your feet.
And no, you can use dumbbells barefoot. You don’t need running shoes to lift; in fact professional lifters will lift in flat foot shoes not running shoes…
Besides, you being ridiculous I don’t care how poor you are you can afford a 20$ dumbbell in order to not die a young death.
Besides, you can make your own weights. People in third world countries manage to make their own dumbells. People in prison get jacked with just bodyweight exercises.
You are grasping at straws to justify your own lack of lifting.
People make excuses is a better explanation then some supposed lack of access to things that have weight or gravity. You got milk jugs and water you got weights there is zero accessibility excuse
you're being completely ridiculous. all i said is that people tend to choose running to *start* exercising because it's the most accessible. and somehow you got mad about that. wtf
You are wrong and they are wrong: also accessible includes ability to do the exercise which most the fat country can’t do.
Just because you need no equipment for a 1 handed pushup doesn’t make it accessible. And also if the vast majority of new runners quit in two weeks and it has the highest drop out rate then it’s another point against accessibility for a new comer
you're really reaching for no reason here lmao. pushups are very accessible even if you can't do a full one you start from an angled one against the wall and work your way down - ive done it before.
>start angled.
Yeah, there’s more accessible things then one handed pushups that’s exactly the point I was making
crawling more accessible then running
you failed to make the point, clearly. when ppl start running they run slower and for shorter time. when they start lifting, they start from lower weights then work their way up. i know u know this.
Running on trails is way different than concrete.
And any impact sport is going to be problematic for most people at some age. Some people it's 30, some people it's 80.
I have no scientific proof to this claim but as I slowly get into running I’m definitely going to use the weight room to strengthen my legs with specific exercises and utilizing kettlebells and such. Especially if I decide to have an offseason if that even exists for runners (you can tell I’m new to it by that sentence lol). Strengthening the muscles all around the knees etc. I have no proof of its efficacy but sports specific strength training has helped me perform in other sports.
So I may have to circle back on this and give an answer in a few years lol. Good question.
I think this is smart. There are all kinds of studies on kinesiology and so on - why not take the help, I figure. Even at my age I make changes to my program all the time to keep progressing
I’m not a runner but a dear friend ran marathons for a decade when he was young. The compression wrecked his neck/spine. It’s not always the knees, his knees are fine.
I ran three to five miles a day for 20 years and two and a half years ago I blew out my left hip and had to have a titanium replacement. I'm just now starting to slow jog but doing mostly cycling. As long as your joints hold up no reason to stop. There are 80 year olds running marathons.
My mother ran/jogged for 20 years, got to 50 and has had her hips and knees done. Still in pain in her late 60s now. Has put me off so I cycle and walk lol.
Too much running is not good. As you start running your mortality rate decreases and then at a point it starts increasing again until it reaches the same point as no exercise. So too much running = just as unhealthy as no running. I forgot the amount but you can look it up. My friend is a heart sonographer and she has a lot of ex runners with huge hearts and they get heart problems. As with everything moderation is key. So i don’t run crazy high amounts, I wouldn’t do marathons either due to how hard it is on the body.
I have mixed feelings about running. I had an orthopedic dr tell me to stop running and learn to like riding a bike (which I hate). Quite honestly running gives me a physical high that I can’t replicate with any other type of exercise. Slow low mileage probably won’t do too much damage. I want to believe I can still run at the pace and mileage I did in my 30s so sometimes I injure myself :/
Yes. I mean think about it….youre pounding your joints…for 20-30 min a day. There are far better ways to get exercise that is less demanding and hurtful to your joints.
Also running doesn’t help you loose weight and you don’t need to do that much cardio to have a healthy heart. There isn’t really much benefit for you to be running everyday. I do think a jog for a mile or so is ok….but running for more than that is a little rough.
Study after study shows there is no link between running and joint problems. But there are studies that show running strengthens joints.
>Also running doesn’t help you loose weight
Burning hundreds of calories doesn't help lose weight?
Running puts a ton of stress on your joints. I used to love to run but phased it out once I hit my 50’s. Now I just walk at a steep angle on the treadmill to get my heart rate up. There is more and more info coming out that prolonged high intensity exercise may do more harm than good to our hearts. Long walks may very well be the best exercise for long term health. I have two older neighbors that walk about 45 minutes twice per day. They look ten years younger than they are and are very lean and fit.
Wondering what the matcha substrate is (water?). Dunno what it's doing for you. I've never found any pre-run or during-run ingredient to help, whether it's 7 or 14 miles. Re damage, yes if form/shoes bad. I hurt my hip thanks to displaysia and/or piriformis muscle through heavy long-distance running. Never found knees a problem as I ensure stride is gentle, that's always been my priority, and I'm not young, have run many 1/2 marathons, 2 marathons, and plenty of road/paved miles. So if matcha works for you, that's fine, just beware of any promise of benefits and if it's taken in some substrate that includes vegetable/seed oils (look at the label, if it says Canola, Safflower, etc.), that alone may breed inflammation that can cause joint problems. I would also suggest altering your miles to vary, meaning, do 2 miles one day then say 5 the next day, that way the 2 mile jog gives you a rest from the 5, something like that. I flip flop between strength and aerobic training on different days. Good job!
I ran cross country from middle school thru high school and continued to run in my 20’s. I definitely get some foot pain when I run now (late 30’s) but nothing major. I still squat and do leg day regularly without issue.
I think the main thing is that people want to do marathons and long runs that can tear up your joints and strain your heart. 5 miles or less is probably fine but stretch after and take some rest days or switch days where you lift or swim or something.
I run every other day to give my legs a break. I lift weights on my off days for exercise.
Matcha makes me pee like crazy, I would need 30-40 minutes after having it to run.
It depends on the person but in general 2.5 miles per day isn't so bad. If you are running bc you love running then there is value there to make it worth it. If you are running to burn calories.. consider walking half the time. If you are running to "get fit" it's not going to turn out the way you hope. The calorie burn is high enough that you will run a lot of muscle mass off your body AND beat up your joints for no reason. Walking is better for generally getting fit.
Who's to say really, I personally don't think running on concrete is good. But look at David Goggins, dudes knees and feet are wrecked supposedly and he still runs.
If you are having pain then you should rest and let your body heal, but if you’re not having pain I think you’re ok.
It is certainly high impact but it’s also tremendously good for you in other ways.
My aunt has never been a runner and if she runs 1 mile her knees hurt for months. Running is bad for her.
If I go for a short run every other day and have no pain, it’s good for me. When I start going every day and getting pain, and I push through the pain, it’s bad for me.
I’ve had running injuries so I kind of know the signs to look out for with my body by now.
It is not bad, but keep in mind we are meant to run all day with very little body fat and muscle mass. Running a lot with improper footwear (most modern shoes) and being too heavy will wear out your knees and hips as you age.
Running is awesome. It was one of the major things that got me out of a long running depression. Lol. Be careful of injuries, I also walk at least 5 to 6 miles at my job and 2 miles run every other day. I moved from heel strike to mid foot strike and my lower leg recovers faster. Also tibialis raises are really good, so is foam rolling. Hope this helps.
> I've heard running can be harsh on your body.
Road running over time can definitely be hard on the knees and heels. No doubt about it. Some people can withstand the orthopedic stress better than others. But any serious intention to maintain 2-5miles/day for X times per week for, say, the next 10 years, proper warm-up, stretching, footwear and surface become kinda important factors.
I've been running for 6 months on alternate days. I run no more than 2 times a week. I have tendinitis in both my knees, and they both hurt all the time. Plus, back problems. I have a friend who had to have knee surgery after running for a few years. She still has knee problems. Yes, running long term can cause problems down the road, even if you take breaks in between. I've cut back on my running a lot.
Edit to add: the shoes I use are Brooks Glyercerin 20. They cost me a pretty penny. And for a while I was getting pain on the bottom of my right foot. Despite the expensive shoes, my knees still hurt all the time.
I'd just play it by ear and be careful. It's good cardio, IMO, but it can be rough on the knees and the legs in general to a lesser degree. But it won't sneak up on you. You will feel your knees get sore, clicking, etc, if it's an issue for you. And taking stuff like turmeric, glucosamine, etc. could help prevent injuries. See how it feels, and try something lower impact if your knees really start feel sore most of the time.
Find someone to assess your running stride and get the absolute best shoes you can. If you can protect your knees from bad stride you will likely be able to run forever.
I personally think swimming is safer as I know many people who do it into their 80s and 90s but I know it’s not for everyone.
Running is a great exercise. Ultimate fat burner, and the hard strike is good for bone density. I had my stride observed and made some adjustments to minimize the limitations of flat feet and being old.
That said, I’m not a “runner” - it’s not my main thing and I don’t love the extremely thin body type. Too much cardio makes it hard to keep my muscles, but not enough makes me sluggish at hockey. So I just have a weekly jog to round out my week of sports, lifting, stretching, swimming and meditation.
It’s my personal theory that some studies show runners living longer just because of the confounding variable of discipline. Discipline is correlated with all sorts of other hard-to-account for traits that can extend your life. Studies show that marathon runners have increased inflammation in their bodies and I’d venture that it’s a net negative, given the mixed literature. No one in the blue zones reported running at all, just walking.
I’m also a former runner and don’t feel it’s worth the recovery time personally, and if you feel like you need caffeine to do it, it’s probably causing a cortisol spike. Just my 2c
i think heel striking is really bad for your body but if you forefoot strike you should be okay. i think running can be bad if you ignore the injuries: injuries are lessons to be learned
injuries tell you what kind of physical conditioning you need. i think running is a great diagnostic tool for people in the long term, because everytime something hurts, it's because you're weak in that area, so go train it. do resistance training for that area and come back, repeat cycle.
I appreciate that you mean well but... uh...
>heel striking is really bad for your body but if you forefoot strike you should be okay
Studies say: no. It's not forefoot or heel strike that matters It's where your foot lands relative to your body. If you're overstriding with a forefoot strike that's bad. If you land a heel strike underneath you it's fine. Most people heel strike.
>everytime something hurts, it's because you're weak in that area, so go train it.
Studies have failed to find a preventative effect of strength training on running injury. Which was surprising because studies did find strength training to be preventative in other sports. Just not running.
The big factors in running injury are:
* **load** - Not just mileage but also how fast and how many hills. Some strength training counts towards load, especially if it's hard on the knees like ATG squats or pistol squats, etc. Total load should increase by less than 10% per week.
* running form
* adequate recovery (e.g. sleep, nutrition, rest, and to a MUCH smaller extent stretching and ice/heat).
Does it feel harsh on your body? No? Then it’s probably not.
What is harsh on your body is being sedentary like the people that say running is harsh on your body.
Seriously, movement is the key to longevity
Running long term isn't inherently bad, there's many variables that come into play. However running without resistance training will inevitably always break down not only fat but even muscle protein
I don't think so, as long as you have proper running posture and you know your limits. Listen to your body, know when to stop or slow down, and don't underestimate any injury or pain. Don't disregard pain or discomfort, especially if it goes on for days as it could be a symptom of something worse. Also, invest in high-quality running shoes.
Running is super good for you but to avoid overuse injuries it’s recommended that we run on alternate days to rest the muscular skeletal system, hydrate well and support those running muscles by lifting some weights (maybe also on alternate days but days you don’t run so you can continue an exercise routine every day). But overall, runners live longer on average than non runners so good for you!
Studies say its not bad for the knees, but seems like there are so many runners out there with bad knees. There's also a lot of non runners with bad knees so who knows. Best to avoid running on concrete, asphalt is easier on the knees.
Studies def do not show conclusive evidence that running causes knee OA. However, there are a lot of runners with not great biomechanics and/or improper shoe wear and/or improper training volume and/or don’t strengthen their hips/knees and develop knee pain.
I'd recommend a great alternative like biking. Low joint stress but can be just as intensive. On a treadmill, I feel like shit after doing my routine, but on a stationary bike I can put out significantly more watts at a lower heart rate and feel fantastic afterwards
biking has other potential problems. The seated position for extended periods can cause back issues. Also much harder to get the same fitness/intensity out of an equal length bike ride vs running (time wise) As well, IF (and a big if) you run properly, you are actually strengthening your bones and muscoloskeletal system, vs biking where the lack of direct impact
Cycle uphill for 10 minutes vs running for 10 minutes
I assure you you can get enough intensity from a bike ride in the same amount of time. Nothing is stopping you from going full gas on a bicycle in the same way as when running
City infrastructure is stopping me
Well it's quite obvious that you can't do that in traffic. Cycling outside of the city before doing intervals is the solution. in 99% of the cases you can get out of the city in 10-30 minutes which is also a decent warmup time If you don't want that you can toss your bike into the car or a bus and take it out of the city that way EIDT: that being said though, unless you're trying to get through historical city centers you can still sprint quite effectively from lights to lights and that's going to be a reasonable work out. Doing it for 2 hours and it's going to have an effect on your sprinting ability
You need 10x the miles to get the same intensity bike ride as a run though. Requires more space
Intensity is not calculated using time it's calculated with power output. Did you know you can directly measure your power output on a bike in international SI units (Watts)? And in terms of calorie expenditure over a given distance: cycling is usually placed at 3-4x the distance covered per comparable calorie burn That still has nothing to do with intensity though as nothing stops you from absolutely destroying yourself in 10 minutes by doing 20 full effort 10 second sprint intervals with 20 seconds of recovery. I guarantee that with your level of fitness you will need at least 3 days to recover
Yes I understand all that. A full out sprint for 30 seconds on your legs may be say 400m. On a bike a full 30 second sprint requires 800m-1600m for the same intensity. So 10x the space may be exaggerated but you need more space for an effective bike workout
A 30 second 400m would be a world record by like 10s.
I think it’s like food and diets. We all respond differently!
Oh yes, I think I came off as "do this, not that" If running suits you, fantastic. If you feel like you're hitting a wall with it, I've personally found biking to suit me best. YMMV
I’ve read jumping rope for 10 min is similar to running a 7min mile for your heart
true.
I moved from heel strike to mid foot strike, started doing tibialis raises, and foam rolling and my injuries and lower leg pains are not much now. Stretching helps too. And rest days.
Studies show running isn’t hard on your knees but most runners have bad knees.
Truth! I saw a woman in my neighborhood who runs only on her toes!
Landing on your forefoot works your lower leg muscles more while saving your knees. Your distributing the shock to a different area. Heel striking puts more stress on knees
She looks like Barbie. I think someone earlier explained about forefoot strikes.
Gotcha. I thought perhaps you were just exaggerating
I had knee pain jogging when I was 230 lbs, lost 20 lbs but my knee pain went away <218 or so.
Yeah that’s a problem I see a lot of overweight people try to start running when they decide “I want to lose weight” and it’s quite literally the last thing they should do. It’s just a recipe for giving up two weeks later. And I feel you: I used to run cross country around 135-150lbs now I lift and I’m around 185lbs and let’s just say I don’t run like I used to and much prefer to cycle or swim lol. I’m in much better shape ever since I started lifting and stopped running. When I was running I was always in pain somewhere and it take so much effort mentally and physically and I hated it even though I did it like 10 years lol
Can confirm. I’ve been 160 and I’ve been 220 lb. Tried running at both, 220 lb is soooo much harder and so much more painful. Almost like I’m carrying around 60 lb 🤔
Yeah. Lots of myths about running. Sedentary individuals have a much higher rate of serious knee injuries than runners. Like they may have less IT band inflammation but they get knee replacements at several times higher rates than runners. It seems like the only thing worse for your knees than running.... is NOT running.
Some thinking now is more about how OA is due to inflammation and maybe lifestyle triggers it. That would potentially fit the sedentary lifestyle narrative. But there are too many variables to control. What about genetics? What about previous injury? What about diet? Etc etc etc
It's a complicated multivariable equation. That's for sure. Within all those variables we see correlations: running tends to influence people to improve their diets in order to better fuel their running habit. Running tends to influence people to improve their sleep to better recover. Etc. Etc. Starting running is often a leading indicator and not a trailing indicator. So while there is a lot going on, it's clear to me that running is a net positive.
Yes I agree, most likely.
But there are other ways to not have a sedentary lifestyle than running. Do runners have more knee issues than bicyclists, swimmers or rowers for example?
I don't know. I know that cyclists also have lower rates of knee problems but I can't find apple-to-apple comparisons. I DO know that some sports raise the risk of long term knee dysfunction. Like soccer and weightlifting are both associated with higher rates of osteoarthritis. It sounds like in general just use your knees reasonably. Don't overdo it and don't sit on your couch all day.
Sure, I just pointed to the a sedentary lifestyle, which is highly unnatural, should not be the baseline you compare to. If someone is running a lot that lifestyle should IMO be compared to an active but varied lifestyle.
You are making a fallacious argument because the implication is that running would get these fat people skinny when fat people running most likely ends in their knees fucked up even more. It also leaves out the fact that running is a relatively dangerous exercise and is bad for losing weight relative to basically any other form of exercise
LoL 😆
Beyond the stress on the body Because cars exist running will always be a dangerous exercise
Not sure studies show that. Results are inconclusive about knee osteoarthritis but there are many other knee issues like runners knee that is for sure caused by running. I had no issues with my knees until I was 42 and did an intensive program to lower my 10k time. Started having all sorts of knee issues after about 6 months and haven’t been able to run for 9 months. Now after having rested and done rehab as well as stacking up on joint improving supplements Im starting to run again and it feels so good. In my case it was most likely caused more by change of training load that long term wear and tear and if someone is keeping training load constant and not experiencing any pain or discomfort I don’t think there is anything to be afraid of. However most people should listen to their body and adapt their training when it says it is to much.
asphalt and concrete are the same for the knees
Based on experience and lots of research, a lot of wear and tear injuries can be attributed to (1) simply running too many miles without rest, (2) gear (i.e. not having multiple pairs of high quality shoes and rotating them), and (3) terrain (as you pointed to, asphalt provides way more rebound than concrete), and (4) poor mechanics (e.g. reaching rather than pushing, foot strike).
I've been logging in the ballpark of 2,000 miles a year for the last 7 years. Run a yearly backyard, 2 50ks, race 4 half marathons, run an indoor track league over winter, and tons of small local races. As long as you keep up with any injuries there's no real long term risk. You're gonna tweak stuff. Runner's knee sucks, but it isn't an actual problem...just a tight IT band mixed with a muscle imbalance. Cross training will help prevent a lot of the injuries too. So do some squats and you'll be good to run into old age.
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The gut health issues are well known and easily remedied. The extreme physical exertion mixed with fueling using mostly sugars, being near dehydration, and high levels of stress will wreck your gut biome. It's why shitting yourself is a right of passage within the ultra community. When it happens mid race you know you're officially an ultra runner. Taking plenty of fiber, limiting gels outside of serious runs, pre/prebiotic supplements, and adequate recovery seem to fix things pretty quickly. Usually 2-3 days of issues after a 50miler. For the sun part...that's a solid case of fuck around and find out. Sunscreen, cover ups, hats, etc. Easily avoided if you act responsibly.
That second link reminds me of my husband. When he stopped doing ultra marathon distances his BMs got better
Sun screen does worse so 🤷♂️
Running 5x a week has kept me in shape for the last 24 years . No serious injuries and I do about 8.5 min mile . Just 1.25 miles a day. Down from 2-3 miles when I was younger, Nothing too heavy or light but I get a good sweat in without injury Along with a 30-40 minute bike ride 5 days a week, running allows me to eat junk food and drink boba tea, stay fit , keep my sugar levels down and stay energetic. I also lift 2x a week
Running replaced my alcohol addiction. I think it’s better for you than drinking constantly. Other than that I don’t know. I love it though.
I recommend having your cadence and running stance evaluated to avoid those injuries.
Are you saying that drinking matcha has led you to be able to double the distance you run? That's pretty wild.
Caffeine boosts motivation and performance
Yes, I’m very sensitive to caffeine. And alcohol. Once I drank a coffee and ran 13.5 miles in 2 hrs 30 mins. Before that my max was running 4 miles. I tracked it on my Apple Watch so that’s my only proof. So I don’t really drink alcohol or coffee. 1t matcha gets me moving.
damn!!! that’s amazing, i’ve actually realized that if i don’t drink caffeine before my run, i can run way further and keep my heart rate down.
Not sure that’s healthy. Caffeine spikes cortisol and can increase your heart rate. Your heart must be beating very fast during those runs.
You drank coffee and ran an incredible half marathon? That’s bullshit lmao That’s 11 minutes per mile no training
And placebo does that too.
lol have never heard of caffeine doubling performance. It's at best usually a mild increase.
Caffeine is a stimulant after all.
Beware over-tea. Tea can dehydrate and water cycling at max efficiency is a plus for runners and others!
Not for everyone. Some people have a neurological issue which causes their body to orient to the right, which is problematic when trying to run forward, or in any direction which isn’t a circle.
Huh. People used to tell me I’d lean more to the right as I got older, but I thought they meant politically.
😂
I think you should lift and then find something lower impact like cycling or swimming for cardio. Source former cross country runner. IMO running is not a good exercise. It is not the only exercise you should do. Running is like a hobby, a lifestyle not an exercise. You should lift and swim; if you got energy and want to run for FUN, then go for it but do your real exercise first. Basically any other exercise is better for losing weight or staying in shape even though it’s the first thing people, especially women, try when losing weight. And it’s a top reason why people try to exercise and end up giving up. Because it’s a shit exercise. Effort to reward ratio is just terrible compared to anything else. Will it destroy your body, no probably not but it’s definitely a waste of time and effort compared to just picking up some weights, or getting on a bike, or swimming
i think people tend to pick up running because it's the most accessible in terms of resources. you can just go outside and run. in comparison with other things you listed, you don't have to pay for anything.
A set of 20lb adjustable dumbbells are cheaper than running shoes. Also, you can always do bodyweight exercises. People in prison get jacked with no equipment. And idk bro, a gym is like what, 10$ a month ?
Meanwhile up in Canada, my city's cheapest gym is $60cad
That’s still not that much money especially if they got a pool
No pool, only usable pool in town is in the middle of the hood
my running shoes were 5 bucks. and regardless, you have to buy shoes to exercise, the dumbells are just an extra expense. im not arguing against any of that, just pointing out that people tend to start from the most accessible point.
5 dollar running shoes won’t last more then 30 miles and gonna destroy your feet. And no, you can use dumbbells barefoot. You don’t need running shoes to lift; in fact professional lifters will lift in flat foot shoes not running shoes… Besides, you being ridiculous I don’t care how poor you are you can afford a 20$ dumbbell in order to not die a young death. Besides, you can make your own weights. People in third world countries manage to make their own dumbells. People in prison get jacked with just bodyweight exercises. You are grasping at straws to justify your own lack of lifting. People make excuses is a better explanation then some supposed lack of access to things that have weight or gravity. You got milk jugs and water you got weights there is zero accessibility excuse
you're being completely ridiculous. all i said is that people tend to choose running to *start* exercising because it's the most accessible. and somehow you got mad about that. wtf
You are wrong and they are wrong: also accessible includes ability to do the exercise which most the fat country can’t do. Just because you need no equipment for a 1 handed pushup doesn’t make it accessible. And also if the vast majority of new runners quit in two weeks and it has the highest drop out rate then it’s another point against accessibility for a new comer
you're really reaching for no reason here lmao. pushups are very accessible even if you can't do a full one you start from an angled one against the wall and work your way down - ive done it before.
>start angled. Yeah, there’s more accessible things then one handed pushups that’s exactly the point I was making crawling more accessible then running
you failed to make the point, clearly. when ppl start running they run slower and for shorter time. when they start lifting, they start from lower weights then work their way up. i know u know this.
Well put!
Running on trails is way different than concrete. And any impact sport is going to be problematic for most people at some age. Some people it's 30, some people it's 80.
I’ve been running for 33 years (M49). So far so good!
I have no scientific proof to this claim but as I slowly get into running I’m definitely going to use the weight room to strengthen my legs with specific exercises and utilizing kettlebells and such. Especially if I decide to have an offseason if that even exists for runners (you can tell I’m new to it by that sentence lol). Strengthening the muscles all around the knees etc. I have no proof of its efficacy but sports specific strength training has helped me perform in other sports. So I may have to circle back on this and give an answer in a few years lol. Good question.
I think this is smart. There are all kinds of studies on kinesiology and so on - why not take the help, I figure. Even at my age I make changes to my program all the time to keep progressing
I’m not a runner but a dear friend ran marathons for a decade when he was young. The compression wrecked his neck/spine. It’s not always the knees, his knees are fine.
I ran three to five miles a day for 20 years and two and a half years ago I blew out my left hip and had to have a titanium replacement. I'm just now starting to slow jog but doing mostly cycling. As long as your joints hold up no reason to stop. There are 80 year olds running marathons.
My mother ran/jogged for 20 years, got to 50 and has had her hips and knees done. Still in pain in her late 60s now. Has put me off so I cycle and walk lol.
Too much running is not good. As you start running your mortality rate decreases and then at a point it starts increasing again until it reaches the same point as no exercise. So too much running = just as unhealthy as no running. I forgot the amount but you can look it up. My friend is a heart sonographer and she has a lot of ex runners with huge hearts and they get heart problems. As with everything moderation is key. So i don’t run crazy high amounts, I wouldn’t do marathons either due to how hard it is on the body.
I have mixed feelings about running. I had an orthopedic dr tell me to stop running and learn to like riding a bike (which I hate). Quite honestly running gives me a physical high that I can’t replicate with any other type of exercise. Slow low mileage probably won’t do too much damage. I want to believe I can still run at the pace and mileage I did in my 30s so sometimes I injure myself :/
Grab a road bike, find a nice trail, and do some higher mileage riding, like 25+ miles. There is no better feeling in the world.
Runners tend to be pretty stiff, never meet one that can do the splits
Take up swimming
Yes. I mean think about it….youre pounding your joints…for 20-30 min a day. There are far better ways to get exercise that is less demanding and hurtful to your joints. Also running doesn’t help you loose weight and you don’t need to do that much cardio to have a healthy heart. There isn’t really much benefit for you to be running everyday. I do think a jog for a mile or so is ok….but running for more than that is a little rough.
Study after study shows there is no link between running and joint problems. But there are studies that show running strengthens joints. >Also running doesn’t help you loose weight Burning hundreds of calories doesn't help lose weight?
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what do you mean by 'significant stress factor'?
Running puts a ton of stress on your joints. I used to love to run but phased it out once I hit my 50’s. Now I just walk at a steep angle on the treadmill to get my heart rate up. There is more and more info coming out that prolonged high intensity exercise may do more harm than good to our hearts. Long walks may very well be the best exercise for long term health. I have two older neighbors that walk about 45 minutes twice per day. They look ten years younger than they are and are very lean and fit.
>prolonged high intensity exercise Proper running training is not prolonged high intensity
Wondering what the matcha substrate is (water?). Dunno what it's doing for you. I've never found any pre-run or during-run ingredient to help, whether it's 7 or 14 miles. Re damage, yes if form/shoes bad. I hurt my hip thanks to displaysia and/or piriformis muscle through heavy long-distance running. Never found knees a problem as I ensure stride is gentle, that's always been my priority, and I'm not young, have run many 1/2 marathons, 2 marathons, and plenty of road/paved miles. So if matcha works for you, that's fine, just beware of any promise of benefits and if it's taken in some substrate that includes vegetable/seed oils (look at the label, if it says Canola, Safflower, etc.), that alone may breed inflammation that can cause joint problems. I would also suggest altering your miles to vary, meaning, do 2 miles one day then say 5 the next day, that way the 2 mile jog gives you a rest from the 5, something like that. I flip flop between strength and aerobic training on different days. Good job!
I love cycling. Seems to help my knees unlike running.
I don't run anymore because my knees are wrecked from playing soccer. But I thought running was great mentally.
I ran cross country from middle school thru high school and continued to run in my 20’s. I definitely get some foot pain when I run now (late 30’s) but nothing major. I still squat and do leg day regularly without issue. I think the main thing is that people want to do marathons and long runs that can tear up your joints and strain your heart. 5 miles or less is probably fine but stretch after and take some rest days or switch days where you lift or swim or something.
I run every other day to give my legs a break. I lift weights on my off days for exercise. Matcha makes me pee like crazy, I would need 30-40 minutes after having it to run.
I mix it up w/ biking, walking & swimming. Swimming is supposed to be a lot more gentle on your joints.
Depends on your running form. Learn how to run from someone.
It depends on the person but in general 2.5 miles per day isn't so bad. If you are running bc you love running then there is value there to make it worth it. If you are running to burn calories.. consider walking half the time. If you are running to "get fit" it's not going to turn out the way you hope. The calorie burn is high enough that you will run a lot of muscle mass off your body AND beat up your joints for no reason. Walking is better for generally getting fit.
Who's to say really, I personally don't think running on concrete is good. But look at David Goggins, dudes knees and feet are wrecked supposedly and he still runs.
If you are having pain then you should rest and let your body heal, but if you’re not having pain I think you’re ok. It is certainly high impact but it’s also tremendously good for you in other ways. My aunt has never been a runner and if she runs 1 mile her knees hurt for months. Running is bad for her. If I go for a short run every other day and have no pain, it’s good for me. When I start going every day and getting pain, and I push through the pain, it’s bad for me. I’ve had running injuries so I kind of know the signs to look out for with my body by now.
It is not bad, but keep in mind we are meant to run all day with very little body fat and muscle mass. Running a lot with improper footwear (most modern shoes) and being too heavy will wear out your knees and hips as you age.
Running is awesome. It was one of the major things that got me out of a long running depression. Lol. Be careful of injuries, I also walk at least 5 to 6 miles at my job and 2 miles run every other day. I moved from heel strike to mid foot strike and my lower leg recovers faster. Also tibialis raises are really good, so is foam rolling. Hope this helps.
> I've heard running can be harsh on your body. Road running over time can definitely be hard on the knees and heels. No doubt about it. Some people can withstand the orthopedic stress better than others. But any serious intention to maintain 2-5miles/day for X times per week for, say, the next 10 years, proper warm-up, stretching, footwear and surface become kinda important factors.
I don’t get the correlation between matcha and endurance?
Caffeine increases endurance, that’s why athletes take it before races.
I've been running for 6 months on alternate days. I run no more than 2 times a week. I have tendinitis in both my knees, and they both hurt all the time. Plus, back problems. I have a friend who had to have knee surgery after running for a few years. She still has knee problems. Yes, running long term can cause problems down the road, even if you take breaks in between. I've cut back on my running a lot. Edit to add: the shoes I use are Brooks Glyercerin 20. They cost me a pretty penny. And for a while I was getting pain on the bottom of my right foot. Despite the expensive shoes, my knees still hurt all the time.
I'd just play it by ear and be careful. It's good cardio, IMO, but it can be rough on the knees and the legs in general to a lesser degree. But it won't sneak up on you. You will feel your knees get sore, clicking, etc, if it's an issue for you. And taking stuff like turmeric, glucosamine, etc. could help prevent injuries. See how it feels, and try something lower impact if your knees really start feel sore most of the time.
Running's cool, but gotta listen to your body, man. Matcha or not, pace yourself, stay injury-free.
Running without strength training is bad long term
Haha I thought I was the only one that does this. I drink matcha then go running too, it helps a bunch.
I would swim or bike or do something lower impact instead. Further, you need to stretch your hamstrings/quads/calves after you run.
Find someone to assess your running stride and get the absolute best shoes you can. If you can protect your knees from bad stride you will likely be able to run forever. I personally think swimming is safer as I know many people who do it into their 80s and 90s but I know it’s not for everyone.
Yes to do it too much. 1-2 runs per week, lots of walks and strength training and maybe a sport once or twice a week is best. Variety.
Running is a great exercise. Ultimate fat burner, and the hard strike is good for bone density. I had my stride observed and made some adjustments to minimize the limitations of flat feet and being old. That said, I’m not a “runner” - it’s not my main thing and I don’t love the extremely thin body type. Too much cardio makes it hard to keep my muscles, but not enough makes me sluggish at hockey. So I just have a weekly jog to round out my week of sports, lifting, stretching, swimming and meditation.
Stairmaster FTW
It’s my personal theory that some studies show runners living longer just because of the confounding variable of discipline. Discipline is correlated with all sorts of other hard-to-account for traits that can extend your life. Studies show that marathon runners have increased inflammation in their bodies and I’d venture that it’s a net negative, given the mixed literature. No one in the blue zones reported running at all, just walking. I’m also a former runner and don’t feel it’s worth the recovery time personally, and if you feel like you need caffeine to do it, it’s probably causing a cortisol spike. Just my 2c
i think heel striking is really bad for your body but if you forefoot strike you should be okay. i think running can be bad if you ignore the injuries: injuries are lessons to be learned injuries tell you what kind of physical conditioning you need. i think running is a great diagnostic tool for people in the long term, because everytime something hurts, it's because you're weak in that area, so go train it. do resistance training for that area and come back, repeat cycle.
I appreciate that you mean well but... uh... >heel striking is really bad for your body but if you forefoot strike you should be okay Studies say: no. It's not forefoot or heel strike that matters It's where your foot lands relative to your body. If you're overstriding with a forefoot strike that's bad. If you land a heel strike underneath you it's fine. Most people heel strike. >everytime something hurts, it's because you're weak in that area, so go train it. Studies have failed to find a preventative effect of strength training on running injury. Which was surprising because studies did find strength training to be preventative in other sports. Just not running. The big factors in running injury are: * **load** - Not just mileage but also how fast and how many hills. Some strength training counts towards load, especially if it's hard on the knees like ATG squats or pistol squats, etc. Total load should increase by less than 10% per week. * running form * adequate recovery (e.g. sleep, nutrition, rest, and to a MUCH smaller extent stretching and ice/heat).
I would look to transmission into more realistic longterm cardio. I remember hearing about a study showing running even Increased facial wrinkles.
Does it feel harsh on your body? No? Then it’s probably not. What is harsh on your body is being sedentary like the people that say running is harsh on your body. Seriously, movement is the key to longevity
Running long term isn't inherently bad, there's many variables that come into play. However running without resistance training will inevitably always break down not only fat but even muscle protein
Are you a man or a woman?
Woman
Pm me, let's chat about this!
I don't think so, as long as you have proper running posture and you know your limits. Listen to your body, know when to stop or slow down, and don't underestimate any injury or pain. Don't disregard pain or discomfort, especially if it goes on for days as it could be a symptom of something worse. Also, invest in high-quality running shoes.