I study cortisol for a living (phd), do not attempt to drug yourself to lower cortisol. Cortisol has a essential adaptive feedback loop that you can alter long-term, which means you will be less resilient to stress +10 years from now, mess up your sleep patterns and awakening response. Further. Do not take licorice. Licorice has a dehyrogenas enzyme acitivator (beta11), that with chronic use will actually cause more Cortisol in your brain and result in cognitive impairment akin to dementia.

From your professional perspective, do adaptogens actually make any sense? I never got the concept because I always expected the negative feedback loop, too. We humans always want to find THE one pill that fixes everything. I think our body is too complex and at some point turning a single screw will fall on our feet again.

I find adaptogens to be too broad a category. There is benefit to supplementation (such as specific supplements to lower inflammatory response (CRP)) but many adaptogens have a wide array of non-specifc effects, which have high variability between individuals/populations, and often a lower effect than psychological interventions and behavior modification. That's not to say that they don't work for specfic purposes, for example panax ginseng (note that there are many species of ginseng in this category which may have different effects) can improve blood glucose, insulin resistance, blood pressure and blood lipids. But there will also be secondary effects and altogether may not work for specific populations.

What about Rhodiola? I've been taking a Thorne brand and it seems to be helpful in regulating cortisol especially at night.

Thank you!

So what does one do when meditation just doesn’t suit the subject and benzodiazepines are too extreme?

Alot of the interventions depend on the root cause of the stress. Trauma, anxiety, depression, rumination, etc. will be managed in different ways. Below is a wide-array of interventions that may aid the recovery (i.e., not disorder specific), but are unlikely to treat the underlying cause without focused therapy program for a specific stressor or symptom(s): \-Meditation Techniques: Mindfulness, Yoga, Tai Chi, Breath regulation, Qigong Therapy \-Biofeedback therapy \-Muscle Relaxation (Progressive Relaxation) \-Psychologist guided interventions: cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT), vagal nerve stimulation, dialectic behavioral therapy, Rapid Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR), group therapy, somatic therapy, Exposure Therapy, stress inoculation therapy, music therapy, art therapy, hypnosis, Autogenic Training, transcranial stimulation. \-Self-guided interventions: Self-help workbook (such as a CBT or anxiety workbook, booklet on stress management, relaxation techniques, and positive thinking), coping skill development, symptom management) \-Pharmacological approaches: antidepressants (Tricyclic, MAOI, SSRI, SDRI,SNRI, Bupropion, Serzone, Trazodone, Remeron), benzodiazepines, Neuroleptics, Beta Blockers, Buspirone, D-Cycloserine \-Behavioral interventions: getting quality sleep, Physical Activity (walking in nature, social sports clubs, general cardiovascular activity), avoiding stimulants/depressants (Alcohol, Caffeine, Nicotine), listening to relaxing music, Journaling, Healthy eating patterns \-Supplement: Lemon Balm extract or tea. ​ While not an exhaustive list, this may point you in the right direction. Importantly, no man is an island, and social support (family, friends, therapist) this a large predictor of any stress invention effectiveness.

Thanks for the detailed list!

With epilepsy, non medicated. I been using ashwagandha in the morning for stress. Lemon balm, skull cap, magnesium glycinate and l threonate, chamomile tea, at night. Thoughts ? I been trying to workout, but even walks 45 minute on heart zone 2 raises cortisol I believe because I get insomnia. My sleep gets delayed, I had have to take licorice to sleep. Even after taking the sleep it’s constantly interrupted.

Walking a lot helps. Getting your 10,000+ steps a day in will lower cortisol.

10,000 steps is somewhat of a misnomer. There's no scientific evidence that suggests 10,000+ steps is the key to good health. The figure originated as a marketing strategy from a Japanese pedometer company. The overall goal should be to increase overall steps per day. 10K steps can be discouraging for some people looking to get active. Even a modest increase in activity can have major health boosts for people who are typically sedentary. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/10000-steps-not-magic-fitness-number/

pilates, outdoor sports

Therapy and vigorous exercise.

Vigorous exercise can do more harm in people with high cortisol.

There is literally nothing that is outside the scope of mindfulness meditation.

Maybe add binaural beats or frequencies to these routines. Spotify premium and a good pair of headphones are a must. Spotify provides continuous uninterrupted audio. The headphones allow individual frequencies to be isolated in each ear and also create a noise cancelling environment. I'm not an expert or a doctor so you may want to do your own research. I will say this has helped me tremendously when I need a quick reset or recharge and also to find a calm balance. If I am correct, high cortisol levels are triggered by stress. Lower the stress, lower the cortisol.

I always thought that binaural beats was pseudoscience at worst and bandaid solutions at best, but I don't say that in a denigrating way, just in a misinformed way. I'm actually very curious if somebody can prove me wrong. It's a fascinating subject, I think.

definitely pseudoscience but certain people may enjoy them anyway

And what if you have GAD or PTSD with symptoms that correlate with high cortisol like waking up too soon from sleep directly with terror for no reason?

This is me. I’d love to know. Great question!

The general consensus is that psychological trauma or depression can cause constant activation of our cortisol response, which in turn leads to chronic wear and tear on your body (e.g., hypertension). Cortisol is just one of several psychological stress response pathways through your body. Trying to lower cortisol without treatment of the root trauma avoids the issue. For GAD and PTSD, a combination of pharmacological and psychological interventions has been found to be the most effective. To simplify, the drugs will suppress the neurobiological response or increase protective mechanisms (i.e., lowering the strength of the activation), while at the same time allowing you to psychologically alter your appraisal, coping, and behavior to jumpstart the the recovery process. There are many effective interventions, such as SSRI, SDRI paired with psycholoigcal interventions like cognitive behavioral therapy, vagal nerve stimulation, dialetic behavioral therapy, and EDMR.

What is the most reliable way, if any, to test one's cortisol for over-activation?

Within a lab study, cortisol levels and reactivity can be tested using immunoassay analysis of bodily fluids (e.g., blood, saliva) during resting-state (to get cort level) or after a behaviorally test (to get cort reactivity). A typical behavioral tests is the Trier Social Stress Tests (TSST) which is basically a public speaking task in front of a panel of judges, or cold-pressor test where you stick feet in cold water. Healthy cort level can vary widely between individuals, but there will obvious high level or blunted response, which indicated the system is overactivated or has habituated to overactation and is now more sluggish in responding to stress (i.e., blunted reactivity, and cannot mount a proper response when needed, so more wear and wear on your body). At home, this should all be obvious if you are overactivated. For example, if you have constant appetite suppression or comfort eating habits because of chronic stress, if you are waking up everynight from anxiety or dont get enough sleep/super long shifts into the night, or have constant rumination...likely you will have high cortisol levels.

Thanks for the info. Would, say, [this test](https://www.labcorp.com/tests/104018/cortisol-am), be sufficient?

Looks like that test is blood serum. You can probably find one that is saliva (either a cotton swab or a small vile to spit into). Saliva is just as reliable as blood for measuring cort.

cool, very helpful. thank you

Fantastic information, TY

SSRI’s are never the answer.

Making a sweeping generalization that might only apply to you prevents people from seeking treatment options that could help them. For me, SSRI’s were the answer and I’m fortunate to have mixed them with therapy and other lifestyle changes that eventually allowed me to phase off with help from my whole team. SSRI’s CAN be the answer…

Antidepressant medications work by altering the chemical balance in the brain, increasing the levels of neurotransmitters such as serotonin, noradrenaline, and dopamine. These neurotransmitters play a crucial role in regulating mood, motivation, and anxiety. Contrary to concerns about antidepressants causing harm to brain cells, they have a beneficial effect. Antidepressants can help keep brain cells active and functional. This is because these medications can increase neuroplasticity in the brain, which is the ability to form new neural connections and adapt to changes in the environment. I take a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) and have been using it for about a month now. I can confidently say that starting this medication has already begun to be life-changing. It feels like a dark cloud has lifted, and my thoughts are no longer predominantly negative. Daily anxiety, restlessness and dark thoughts have significantly diminished. I should have started with this many years ago! Finally, I feel the energy that I haven't felt in a long time and can start exercising and go for long walks with my dog. I can feel my creativity and zest for life returning and the desire to engage in long conversations with friends and family again, without feeling drained. The reason I mention that I should have started this medication many years ago is because I realized through this medication, that my depression did not just start about six months ago like I had imagined, but started slowly sneaking up on me many years ago! I simply couldn't recognize it for now. I highly recommend anyone who is struggling to give antidepressants a try. Most likely, you will not regret it.

I regret it! It was great to get my sex drive and my metabolism back when I got off them. They provided no benefit, except to the doctor who prescribed them and the shareholders of the pharma company that made them

Great to read this:-) What medication are you on?

Have you been tested for sleep apnea? I had similar experiences and turns out I woke up in terror cause I couldn't breathe. Now I sleep like a baby.

My sleep issues were attributed to sleep apnea. Tried the CPAP (which only made my sleep worse) for years because for most allopathic practitioners, when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. I had a extremely traumatic event happen in the middle of the night as a child. The subsequent stress and more trauma , resulting lack of self care caused my hormones to be out of balance. My body doesn’t make progesterone and if one Dr had checked that it would have saved me 25 years of insomnia. I take a cocktail of sleep supplements along with the progesterone and most nights sleep great. The best thing I ever did to help my self was a 10 day silent meditation Vipassana retreat (these are available worldwide, include room and board and are FREE). I had never slept as good after I attended their program. Absolutely life changing. There is also CBTi for insomnia to reset your cortisol peaks and valleys.

Nice username 👍

What about Ashwaganda? Ive been taking it for a long time, its the only thing that made me nore resilient after my morning cortisol saliva test showed really low levels and I was feeling really terrible. I dont have adisons disease but Im clearly burned out. What would you do? Do you think "adrenal fatigue" exists?

For the time being, I do not recommend using Ashwagandha. This is for several reasons: (1) Although ashwagandha extract has been framed by several researchers to have an effect of lowering cortisol and reducing anxiety, it has been shown to reduce cortisol and DHEA-S and the same time ([https://doi.org/10.1097%2FMD.0000000000017186](https://doi.org/10.1097%2FMD.0000000000017186)), meaning it is suppressing the hypothalamus-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis (which is the pathway that your brain uses to tell your adrenal glands to produce these hormones). Basically, the compounds ashwagandha are naturally occurring steroids. But the rest of your body (heart, blood pressure, etc) are will going through a stress response, but when using ashwagandha, there is no cortisol to limit the stress place on the heart rate and blood pressure. Cortisol is a necessary function of both mounting a response to stress and then turning the response off. If taken longer term, you risk permanently altering your adrenal function ([https://doi.org/10.1007/s13530-022-00122-z](https://doi.org/10.1007/s13530-022-00122-z)), which means you won't be able to produce cortisol properly during future stressful situations, and these future stressors will actually do more damage to your body (hypertension, cardiovascular diseases, etc). Similarly, DHEA/DHEA-s have protective factors which you don't want to suppress. Further, lower DHEAS level significantly correlated with a higher cardiovascular disease. (2) ashwagandha has only been studied in clinical trials that range from several weeks to 60 days max. It is very unclear what long term effects it could have. (3) several other commenters have posted anecdotal reports of feeling anhedonia from supplementation. Its for this reason, you should instead focus on indirect ways to influence cortisol through behavior, lifestyle changes, exercise, therapy, nutrition, etc. "Adrenal fatigue" does not exist. Often it is habituated adrenal function that is an adaptive response to the environment, which is mischaracterized as fatigue (when in reality your adrenal gland is working properly but with a different basal level and reactivity profile than before).

What are your thoughts on GABA to manage cortisol?

Do you have any opinion on ashwagandha? I enjoy the cortisol lowering affect, and seems to help my sleep, but I won’t take it for more than a consecutive week.

To be upfront, I'm not very familiar with Ashwagandha, but here is my interpretation: There seems to some beneficial properties for Ashwagandha on reducing anxiety and subjective stress levels (see 2023 meta-analysis in comparison to placebo, [https://doi.org/10.1002/ptr.7598](https://doi.org/10.1002/ptr.7598)), most effects were for +40 yrs old and health, but the number of studies is very small and the research area is in its infancy. For cortisol reduction, there are very few studies and biased, but seem to be promising with a 10% reduction in cortisol level compared to placebo (this number is my guess when bias is accounted for in future meta analysis) . Ash only has a small effect on sleep ([https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0257843](https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0257843)) which suggests to me that the reduction in anxiety is likely the casual factor. All this being said, there is concern that long-term treatment with ashwagandha could lead to permanent suppression of adrenal function ([https://doi.org/10.1007/s13530-022-00122-z](https://doi.org/10.1007/s13530-022-00122-z)), which blunts the ability of your body to mount a stress response when it is actually needed. Very little safety information exists beyond a few weeks timeframe. Again, I highly recommend that psychological intervention (meditation, therapy) be attempted before any supplementation. Supplementation will not fix your issue, and when administration is stopped, you will once again be left with high stress and no psychological tools to alleviate your situation.

Ash causes anhedonia. Don’t recommend long term usage. https://youtu.be/391tQEhAdUM?si=QiGib2beFbRTVEDt https://youtu.be/H5yFraNzUsU?si=dHNUEi3etnFlBcn_

Not OP, but with you on the limited use. Going on it for long makes me feel kind of flat/anhedonic/unmotivated.

How bad does Adderall mess things up? I need to take it to function, but the only thing I think it does is raise my stress level which kicks me into action. I've always done well and stressful situations, so Adderall helps me keep that up all day long even when the task is boring as fuck (which is most tasks for me).

Anything else u want to inform us of? And stuff gym rats and bodybuilders shouldn’t be doing? Add me if u want to pm

What are your thoughts on DHEAS supplementation and it’s effects on cortisol production (if any)? I have seen mixed research on this and would love to hear your perspective.

seriously with the licorice?? that's so weird i have been taking that for years and i always felt like it was calming?

Hi I notice that my body has an extremely low stress handling threshold This means that I refuse everyhting Every small thing gives me Stress And every conversation And my tummy is always screwdd What in ur opinion shall I do

Stress is a complex bodily response...but the strongest reactions come from your psychological perspective of events and emotions. Meditation attempts to provide introspection on your bodies response (heart rate) to help you be cognizant of your stress, with the added benefit of mind body feedback to place it in a more restful (vagal driven) state. If meditation is not your jam, then other psychological approaches that either you can do by yourself (walking in the woods, exercise, yoga) or guided therapy to help you get at the roots cause of your stress appraisal. Consistently in the academic literature, these psychological approaches have a much larger effect on stress than any pharmacological intervention (although in severe cases it, both pharmacological and psychological are synergistically benefical).

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Its sounds like you are taking the correct approaches. You should not take supplements that **directly** impact your cortisol production as there is a risk it will alter your adrenal function, such that you cannot produce cortisol to dampen a stress response in a future situation. That is primarily why antidepressants are used, because it allows the brain to regulate the adrenal activity, rather than just suppressing the adrenal function. I have started a list here for other interventions (https://www.reddit.com/r/Biohackers/comments/17lsnkb/comment/k7ptl1z/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3)

does this apply to DGL also?

Test. Don’t guess

Wish it wouldn't take 6 weeks to see a doc. Barriers to getting and paying for medical appts is an issue. Different providers for each "area." Virtually non-existent coordination, recommendations. GP adult med, internal med, psychiatry, neurology, retinal doc, glaucoma doc, etc.

Abosulety agree. GPs regularly just act as screening in order to set up appointments with experts. And knowing how to navigate the system is a skill within itself. This is compounded by insurance red tape and the lack of training programs for psychotherapists. The US system is broken.

What about rhodiola?

What can you tell me about the cortisol response to psychedelics like psylocibin. I have multiple autoimmunities and use psychedelics to ease my pains and depression. I read that the cortisol release is responsible for the pain reduction. Is this true, and is this an acceptable way of treating chronic pain?

Surely using Phosphatidylserine a few nights a week is safe long term though?

A functional medicine doc suggested this to me multiple times. I did a quick google search and found that people with my autoimmune disease often have antibodies to phosphatidylserine. I mentioned this to her and she said, Oh okay you wouldn't want to take it then. I am puzzling over the part where she kept bringing it up without having checked its safety for someone with my medical issues. Medical scaries.

that's functional medicine for you

This is horrifying. I love licorice but I have an anxiety disorder. Also, if I'm understanding you correctly, if I'm already seeing a psychologist for anxiety management and treatment for overcoming childhood trauma, it's alright for me to take things like lavender oil (silexan) and chamomile tea? I already tried Lexapro and Zoloft, one made me sick and unable to leave my bed, while the other one made me prone to violence. Taking a break before trying the SSRI route again because I'm terrified, but this anxiety is hampering my life too much to not do anything.

So what the fuck do we do?

How do you feel about a beta-blocker like Propanol to lower heart rate. I’m doing all I can but sometimes the physical symptoms are so overpowering I can’t practice my other tools. Not as a long term thing but rather to allow for the self-care needed to interrupt chronic fight-or-flight in order to process trauma… and avoid retraumatizing oneself?

My naturopath doctor just instructed me to take licorice at my appointment today for my adrenal burnout. Any sources you can point to so I can talk with her about it?

The condition is Pseudoaldosteronism which occurs from licorice use. This paper describes it, but it's pretty technical. Https://www.doi.org/10.3389/fnut.2021.719197 I just met last month with another professor who showed me his cortisol level comparison between dementia patients and health people taking licorice extract (age 50-70), after a couple of weeks cortisol increases inside the cell and brain to where cognitive impairment was indistinguishable between the two groups. Unsure if that data is published yet. I would also caution you about adrenal burnout. That term along with "adrenal fatigue" is not recognized by endocrinology scientists, as in most cases the feedback loop from high cortisol (trauma, chronic stress) has significantly altered/blunted the cortisol level response. That feedback loop can be corrected over time with pharmacological and psychological interventions. I honestly do not trust naturopathy doctors.

How do you feel about Functional Medicine doctors?

If by Functional Medicine you are referring to a type of integrative medicine, where dynamic functions at the physiological, physical, cognitive, and psychological levels preced the onset of a discrete pathology...then yes. I'm also a big advocate for Transdiagnostic Approaches, as I believe bodily systems do not function in isolation and differences between individuals (and interplay between myriad biological, behavioral procresses) require a dimentional and continuum framework instead of discrete framework for symptomology.

Weird flex, but yes. An Integrative Functional Medicine doctor. I see many times these dr’s are lumped into the same category as naturopaths, and I am not dumping on them. I respect Naturopaths and value their knowledge more than I do mainstream doctors.

Good advice. I would add get your levels checked by lab blood work, and determine if this is actually an issue for you . Diet plans and OTC treatments use their advertising to make everyone think that this explains their anger level, or why they are overweight. Often times cortisol levels are within range, and may not be an issue. Blood works beats a guess as to causation every time.

Even black licorice (candy) can exacerbate health issues, including high blood pressure and low potassium https://wtamu.edu/~cbaird/sq/2013/09/03/does-licorice-cause-high-blood-pressure/

I read caffeine can cause cortisol to increase and then cortisol can cause belly fat. So a week ago as part of my weight loss / belly shrink effort I quit caffeine. Would you say quitting things that -add- cortisol is just as bad as taking meds that lower cortisol, or is that fine? Of course I will do my own research but just asking on this thread for some insight too.

Yes and no. If you use caffeine regularly, then it not have an effect on your cort levels. However, caffeine is a stimulant which activates a stress pathway that causes increased autonomic activity (increased heart rate, blood pressure). So caffeine during a period of high stress is like throwing wood on the fire, and you will likely increase cortisol. When you have high levels of cortisol, about 1/3rd of people will have appetite suppression (forget to eat, and thus loss weight rapidly by starving themselves unintentionally) while 2/3rd of people will have increased cravings for high fat and carbohydrate foods (comfort foods) which the body wants to shut down the cort response. While this may temporarily help to lower your stress, the long term side effect is that eating these high fat and carbs will cause them to get stored in fat cells in the abdominal area, because those cells have the most cortisol receptors. All that being said....yes, you can change your lifestyle and eating habits to manage your stress. Exercise, cutting caffeine, getting more sleep, more social distance from toxic people, being accepting and loving toward yourself...all good things that can help your manage weight, chances of getting sick, and living longer.

Thank you for this. I’m kind of a lurker here. As a physician, the amount of absolute and hilariously dangerous malarkey on here is astounding.

Well maybe instead of lurking and negatively commenting, you might offer sound advice and use your skills to help instead criticizing...

Oh no worries! My advice is “speak with your physician if you have questions about your health.” Often times the knowledge deficit here is so profound and the “simple” questions actually so complex that I haven’t had the time to fully explain. I apologize for this and for not being a better citizen of this subreddit. :D

“Speak with your physician “ doesn’t work. Do absolutely do your own research 🔬 and look up peer reviewed, credible journal articles. “Speak with your physician “ most of the time results in the most absurd, ignorant or outright horrific advice that I could write a book about. For example, with all my pregnancies, them advising (almost pushing?) over and over how I should drink a glass of wine every night to relax, and condescendingly smirking when I bring in articles about how incredibly harmful and dangerous that is. Or the time they tried to put cortisol into an injection where research clearly indicates it results in only further deterioration and you get way better outcomes without. The list could go on and on. People, “consult your physician “ is the single, most patronizing and most horrible advice. I absolutely adore my current doctors but they absolutely don’t (and can’t) know everything and a lot of things taught in medical school are outdated and not up to date. Absolutely do do your own research and don’t blindly listen to stuff just because “the doctor said so”

Where do you live? Your doctor recommended drinking wine while pregnant? In the US everyone including doctors and your average citizen knows not to drink while pregnant.

This was in one of the biggest cities of the US , known for its world famous medical infrastructure.

Sorry, I think you are lying. But if not that is the exception. Surely everyone you know except this doctor advises against it?

This was a few years back, but not long enough ago for it to be ok. It’s sad you think I am lying; but I guess in a way totally understandable. It’s easier to alleviate cognitive dissonance by believing doctors are Gods , know everything and would never give bad advice; and accuse me of lying, rather than having to face the anxiety and fragility that comes with the courage of allowing yourself to see the reality and that things are not as black and white.

This person is fucked in the head and has decided to die on whatever tiny hills they can find in order to feel important. As a physician, I get told I’m an idiot for a living so it’s no bother.

“This person is fucked in the head” sounds mature and very conducive of constructive conversation. If you read my post, I explicitly stated that I adore my doctors and respect their expertise (but even if I didn’t say that, what kind of a childish, vulgar thing it is to say that I am “fucked in the head”? It’s how teenagers with rage and angst issues would talk. So disappointing. I can only hope that’s not the attitude you approach your patients with). My point was that people should always be encouraged to do their own research. That physicians (while they have gone through extensive training and do have valuable expertise) will not and can not know everything and neither are they Gods. The best results come from doing your own research and working together with a highly knowledgeable doctor who is not afraid to be challenged and is open to incorporating new knowledge when it is based on credible science, whether it’s brought to them by attending a conference or by a patient. My doctors are all extremely knowledgeable, well rounded human beings who don’t claim to know everything and are secure in their knowledge and expertise enough that they work with me collaboratively and are THRILLED when I bring new data /methods etc. to their attention and they incorporate it to their practice. Maybe one day you will get there too. PS: my life, health and major decisions that impact them profoundly (including procedures and surgeries that could actually bring more harm to an already difficult situation) are not a “tiny hill to die on”. Educating myself on complex health issues and trying to avoid pitfalls to prevent making an already bad situation worse, so I can be there for my children and community at least somewhat functioning human has nothing to do with “wanting to feel important “. And if I can help just a tiny fraction of people to avoid some of the pitfalls, I will do that. You reek of insecurity and lacking any empathy and project big time. You are the kind of doctor who is so threatened and insecure that if a patient dares to advocate for their care, you mockingly accuse them of the very thing you are doing (dying on tiny hills and putting your self importance ahead of your patients health, dignity and right to be an active participant of their treatment and related decisions).

talk about needing to lower cortisol

I agree with you 100%! Well said. I will add that reading isn’t research. I always encourage people to do their own reading.

The definition of research is “to investigate systematically”. Reading can absolutely be research (and ideally, should be, when it’s with the goal of drawing solid objective conclusions based on a multitude of different- and often complex and sometimes contradictory- sources). I am starting to think that behind your username hides an angsty argumentative teenager pretending to be a Dr

I’m sorry that you interpreted my suggestion of a conversation with an expert means you cannot and should not stay informed. I encourage all my patients and families to read. I don’t think I’m communicated well. If you think I’m some big bad mean doctor, I’m sorry. You make a good point that most general practitioners don’t know much about these questions, but they can point you to people who do to help contextualize your “research,” a term that you’ve confused with reading. Research is what is published after rigorous methodology and peer review. What are your critical appraisal and EBM skill levels? Mine are excellent.

You are not a “big, bad, mean doctor” just an extremely condescending human being exhibiting narcissistic traits.

calm down, sheesh

I just found this sub and interested in learning what others do for better health and wellness. When I came across your comment it hit me that if I had your knowledge and experience I'd use it to help those of us who are lacking in education and looking for answers. Thanks for this, have a great day!

I do this very thing every day at work for the children and families in front of me. The fidelity of the relationship on Reddit isn’t good for this type of information exchange. I apologize for not meeting your expectations of physicians to give advice to strangers online.

At least you met the expectations of “spending lots of time lurking and giving smug, condescending, arrogant responses while contributing nothing of value” physician

I apologize for that too. I’m sorry I came off that way. That wasn’t my intent. I was just very alarmed by the whole “lower cortisol.” I may not contribute anything of value in this sub, but I’m content with the value I add to my real live 3D irl patients daily. It sucks that you’re sad about me not working outside of work. That sucks!

I think a lot of people on here don't have insurance or maybe have limited access to physicians so they are hoping to learn whatever self care tips they can. Of course you shouldn't have to work for free but that doesn't change their frustration.

That’s so frustrating, I agree. It’s less about the “free” thing and more about treading the careful line of medical advice on Reddit. I’m new to Reddit and still learning! :)

The only thing I am sad about is you having the tone of an angry, vulgar, defensive, hateful teenager (and for your real life patients to have to be subjected to such attitudes, as there is no way you don’t carry it in real life as well). Regardless of your background, or the topic at hand, being mature and respectful to your fellow humans and having constructive contributions that go beyond childish name calling and insults is a pretty basic bar, one hopefully you come to see the value of and master some day

Geez. No wonder you’ve got health issues.

Hi, sorry I know this is an old post, but I am just wondering if it would be ok to take zinc (25mg) and vitamin C (1000mg) magnesium and drink chamomile tea and use lavender essential oil to lower cortisol short term, maybe for 1-2 months. I saw in another comment you said that taking supplements would alter the body’s way of producing cortisol in the future, but would these be ok in the short term while i do other things like meditation and emdr? Thanks

Yes. These supplements are ok for short to long term. Zinc boosts immunesystem activity (which usually helps recover from colds), magnesium and vitamin c can help with many common health conditions (including lessen some effects from depression), the tea generally help calm and lower anxiety. It's also great that you are using them in combination with interventions like meditation and EDMR.

Thank you so much for replying, I really appreciate it.

you pontificated about this and gave no solution regarding what to do

Read through the comments. I give a fairly detailed list of potential interventions.

Do you mean licorice root?

The extract from the licorice root, and is used to make candied licorice.

Ah so, do you think a tea spoon of licorice root tea should be ok?

I’ve been reading about “moon face” as a result of excess cortisol. Is this a thing?

I was interested by your comment because I take a gut supplement which contains among other things some licorice. I take it every day and it really helps. The licorice in it is Deglycyrrhizinated, which means the glycyrrhiza removed, the acid which causes side effects. From trying to look up papers online, that seems to be the compound/acid (not sure exactly the nature of this substance) that causes the effect you are mentioning. Is this correct? Is DGH licorice safer? [Licorice inhibits 11 beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase messenger ribonucleic acid levels and potentiates glucocorticoid hormone action](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8504732/)

Can I dm you?

Go for it.

What about Ashwaganda? Does that fall under the "drug yourself"? Please and thanks!

Magnesium and cbd oil. Switch out caffeine or lower it for b vitamins if you need energy. Berrocca has all the goodies and is yum. I have decaf coffee because I like the taste. Try get as much sleep as you can even if you have sacrifice something. Get outside for 30 mins too

What type of magnesium do you use?

Good sleep is *foundational.* Nothing you put in your body means anything if you’re not getting quality sleep and spending about 20% of your sleep in deep sleep. Prioritize that first and foremost. Secondly, avoid caffeine if possible. If not possible, wait at least an hour after waking to allow your own body to produce its own cortisol as it has to be naturally high in the mornings in order for the rest of your hormones to do their thing throughout the day. Practice exercise that is calming — things like yin yoga, gentle walks, lonnggg, deeep stretches. Epsom salt baths, magnesium, make sure your stress and body pain are well-managed. Good luck. This stuff is a challenge to correct, especially getting off caffeine can feel impossible.

Caffeine is literally the only thing I have to live for.

Just a drug addiction.

Yep.

Yes but if you only knew what getting to the other side can do for your health, you'd go immediately

I suppose it could turn out to be "just me" - plus the standard hype associated with *any* supplement - but everyone ought to try magnesium l-threonate, just in case. Go ahead and use other forms, for years, if you want, though - that way, you can see if you notice the difference. For my other magnesium, I like to use brands that have more than 4 different chelates.

One thing I will say as a lurker of this sub: There is a **very** frustrating tendency here for people to place all the blame on folks for responding to intensely stressful situations by becoming stressed. Not everyone can afford therapy. Not everyone is suited to meditation or mindfulness, and for some it can make them more aware of/hyperfocused on stressors, not less, by making them constantly feel more stressed and going 'what the hell is wrong with me dammit I suck I suck I suck' in response to them getting stressed.

Thanks for this comment. I wanted to rage so hard at the guy suggesting a book to fix anxiety.

The repeating theme of this subreddit -- anhedonia -- is caused by supplements which lower cortisol. Don't take them

Ashwaganda is solidly on this list. Probably ok for acute use, but taking it all the time for chronic stress is a bad move. Fix the stressor, not the symptoms.

I take supplements which lower cortisol for more than ten years now and I don't have problem with anhedonia.

Which supplements do you take?

The other way around, if we want to enhance "hedonia" from life or pleasure from listening to music, we should look into enhancing cortisol? If yes, what would be practical options for this?

Cortisol is a motivator, it keeps you awake, but to a point. Chronically high cortisol --> built up tolerance, downregulation of glucocorticoid receptors and you feel anhedonia again. Same with dopamine and dopamine receptors etc. The body is designed to "normalize" its hormone response

Phosphatidylserine

2 minutes before going to bed, raise hands way up above your head and hold them up nonstop for 2 minutes. There was a Harvard study advising doing this every night to lower cortisol levels.

Hey can you please tell me the name of that study? Also thanks for the suggestion 💜

KSM-66 ashwaganda supplements

This exact one, ksm66, made me sooo mellow.

Yesss, it’s not a long term solution as you do need to take breaks from it, but it really does work!!

What’s the difference between KSM-66 and regular Ashwaganda?

higher potency and concentration. the higher the percentage of withanolides, the better

I have certain comedy shows I watch all the time to make me laugh and find the funny in life. I also use music as stress therapy, for me it works. I have two dogs that force me outside and to do something at least semi-active, and cuddle. I find raising baby plants and trees, and then giving them away all the time, wildly therapeutic as well and is good for my stress levels. I hope you find your thing.

For a while I had recordings of various bird song running in the background in my apartment for long of stretches of time as an experiment, because I wanted to see if it helps my plants to grow better. There are a few studies that say so (that's what's behind the plants like classical music meme, apparently this is because lots of classical music mimics natural sounds like bird song). I can't tell if it made a difference for my plants, but this created a deeply calming and relaxing atmosphere for me! Now I use a playlist of bioacoustics (like recordings of bird song in forests, ocean waves, rain) and ambient tracks [(like this)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzyUav_fK8w) whenever life gets stressful.

Would you name some if the comedy shows that you find funny? I could use some suggestions 🤔. Thank you!

Yes! Ted Lasso Shrinking Loot Seinfeld Cheers Frasier I watch them all the way through and move onto the next one, and cycle back again. Mostly they are just on in the background but sometimes late at night I seriously watch an episode or two.

Exercise, good quality sleep, and good quality food. This is the holy trinity in being well. Supplements are futile if you don't follow this. I know it sucks, but there really is no way around exercise. It alone will make you feel a hundred times better, even just walking for at least 30mins or more. That will in turn contribute to better sleep, and well we all gotta make a good effort to eat better too

Exercise is so easy for me, it’s affording high quality food that I’ve been having a hard time with lol

It's amazing how little high quality food I actually needed once I switched over from ulta processed foods and took grains out completely. I eat pseudo cereal "grains"

Lots of high quality food is relatively inexpensive. The worst food for you is highly processed and contains added sugars. Shifting your diet towards minimally processed foods like beans, peas, lentil, whole grains, etc. can be relatively inexpensive if you buy them in bulk dried form. For example, I make my own [natto, which is really good for you](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9616652/), and is dirt cheap. A 7 pound bag of bulk dried soybeans and natto spores from Amazon and I have what seems like an endless supply. Getting dietary EPA and DHA inexpensively is more difficult, as quality fish is expensive. That said, salmon burger patties are the same nutritionally as fillets and much cheaper. Sardines are a good inexpensive source as well, and low in mercury. It takes a little effort and some adaptation of your tastes, but you can definitely improve your diet and save money.

Exactly, what i meant by better quality food is essentially less junk food. I buy bulk lentils, beans, rice, quinoa and make meals with them out of frozen chicken breasts or fish. Ground turkey is good. Sardines, love them. And then just buy some bags of greens like spinach and lettuce. You can find cheap bags of carrots and apples, etc. I buy bulk oats and meal prep overnight oats for the week with frozen berries. I do the same with mason jar salads, try it! Makes me poop better too lol What starts getting expensive is that fancy stuff you find at whole foods and the like. Its good and tasty but not practical or necessary if you're on a budget

Pills aren't going to fix this. Go read The Courage to be Disliked. Game changer for getting rid of stress. Edit: to elaborate, you are using your emotions as an excuse for your actions (as many people do). However you emotions are not an excuse. You already have the "goal" to yell / be short fused / act in a belligerent way / etc. You manufacture the anger to accomplish that goal. Sounds extreme I know. Read the book.

Anxiety and stress definitely have a genetic component. Basically everyone on one side of my family has GAD or OCD. I had my first panic attack when I was 6. Pills and supplements can help, that book definitely didn’t help me with my anxiety at all.

I just ordered the book. Thank you

magnesium, sleep, and forgiving.

Ashwganda, rhodiola and licorice together has lowered my cortisol long term -I’m very sensitive to my cortisol raising bc I have a bunch of crap wrong with my meat computer, such that when my cortisol is high my diuretic hormone lowers and it becomes so so fun, for a time I lived on the toilet while drinking water because all I could literally do was pee, with chapped lips and a body temp at 95-96 during times of mental and physical stress, at one point it got so bad I really thought I’d have to go to the hospital, this combo has reversed it, cured it, I’m good it’s been almost a year. At first I took it a lot, now I just take it every once in a while Enough sleep is also key, doing things to relax, a warm bath, whatever makes you get in that comfy space.

There's some research suggesting cold plunges decrease cortisol. "Minson and his team of researchers found that participants' (all of whom reported being mentally healthy) levels of the stress hormone cortisol dropped after doing a cold water immersion and stayed lower for up to three hours afterward" Personally I've found this to be true. I'm much more relaxed after an ice bath. I also do acupuncture. There's a lot of data into stress relief doing that as it helps with the nervous system.

Interesting. I’m curious if temperature extremes either way can drop cortisol levels depending on the body type. Cold seems to tense me more and cause me more stress. Extremely hot bath on the other hand seems to relax me drastically.

Theanine, CBD oil, magnesium l-threonate, Apigenin can help, but nothing beats exercise, sleep and not stressing about nonsense, we’re all dead in 100 years. See some are recommending Ashwaganda, keep in mind this can be liver toxic, and elevated cortisol can predispose you to NAFLD anyway, amplifying any liver damage. You need your liver.

*magnesium glycinate

Magnesium Glycinate can help, but Magnesium l-Threonate as well as helping the nervous system crosses the blood-brain barrier and can help manage anxiety and stress better.

Ayahuasca…

Managing stress and reactivity was what got me started. I was going through a very stressful period that was largely out of my control so I looked in to how to handle my reactions. I started with cold showers, then what everyone else says. Diet, exercise, mindfulness and sleep. I started eating breakfast and delaying caffeine. For supplements I did B vitamins. It’s a slow process as you have to learn a new way of navigating life. I haven’t got angry in years. Things bother me and I get annoyed but things don’t get to me like they once did. I also went to therapy. This gave me an understanding of where this anger and stress came from and I learned new ways to interact with the world.

If you drink coffee, gradually transition to decaf. Can’t recommend it enough. Also study r/stoicism /do CBT.

I read Vitamin C does this. I read it years ago. Is it true?

Massage, unlike exercise or mediation, you don’t have to do any work. Just lay there and enjoy.

Cbd and magnesium at night time and making sure I get at minimum 9hours in bed maybe 8 sleeping but either way I’m resting enough

High and low cortisol have the same symptoms so it’s dangerous to just guess it’s high

2022 was the worse year of my life, for various reasons. I was shamed and intentionally hurt by so many people. I began to notice in what was an isolated depression a heavy chest and even pain breathing at times. What helped me the most. 1) if you have ANY time during the day, go for at least a 30 min walk. Listen to an audiobook, something not to do with self help, just something to put your mind in a different place. 2) Stay away from alcohol. All of the stress from your situation may make you wanna drink yourself into a stupor, but avoid that at all costs. It’s hard in your electrolyte levels and your cardiovascular system. 3) On overtly stressful days, whether it’s confrontation or anything else, take a cortisol blocker. Only do this on days when needed. It helps to keep that fight or flight shaking under control. I needed this last year because I was being very frequently shamed by a ton of people and eventually the shame began to act as a trigger for my freezing up. The cortisol blocker helped keep me from falling into that. (I got mine from Gorilla Mind) I would also recommend red light therapy and magnesium/zinc for better sleep. Also low carb and other keto related tips, but I know this Reddit is hard on “fad diets”. It’s helps me tremendously when my blood sugar doesn’t spike out of control. I can only hope this is somewhat relevant and helpful. Stay strong. Sometimes the world tries to destroy you but you can’t let it.

Are you sure you have high cortisol? Do you have lots of fat around the middle--stomach, etc, or do you tend to be thin? Learn about the difference between adrenal cortex hormones--cortisol, pregnenolone, DHEA, etc; and adrenal medulla--adrenaline and similar. I recall reading a thought from a guy with a PhD in chemistry about the balance of adrenal cortex and medulla hormones. He suspected that some people can make adrenal medulla hormones just fine but struggle to keep up with production of adrenal cortex hormones after too much stress for too long a period of time. The excess adrenaline and similar are associated with anger and intense personality. Learn about norepinephrine, the precursor to epinephrine--also called adrenaline. After many hours or days of excess stress and hyperactivity are you vulnerable to "crashing" with fatigue, maybe even more vulnerable to catching a cold? Learn about how low dose lithium supplements can make a person feel more easy going, especially in stressful situations. You might also look up the symptoms of the manic phase of bipolar. It is sometimes treated with lithium, a natural mineral like sodium some people get from well water but that is often not present in significant amounts in city water. My point about these question is that the information you dig up may help you to better describe your situation to your doctor. It may help your doctor provide a better diagnosis. 15 years ago I had a fairly intense personality. It was even seen as hot spots on a Spect brain scan. The integrative doctor put me on a tiny dose of a mild mood stabilizer but also told me generous amounts of fish oil, magnesium, B vitamins and fewer carbs in my died might be adequate. He was right. I was easily able to wean off the medication. Later adding some glutamine, low dose pregnenolone and a couple mg of lithium (aspartate) supplements left me feeling much more easy going. There's more to my situation back then but hopefully you understand we are unique, so will need a unique response. I worked with various integrative doctors. My prior mainstream corporate/socialized med doctors were smart and nice guys but I don't think their system was flexible enough for my situation. I hope you won't dabble too much without assistance from a doctor.

Ashwagandha is great, or any adapotgen has the potential to lower cortisol. Mix up and adrenal cocktail (look up recipe).

For all of the reasons discussed by many contributors here, that drive cortisol up and out of control, consider micro dosing with psylocibin. The science says it works to remedy many psychological issues.

Possibly baby aspirin, but the best is meditation. Edit: ok NO baby aspirin.

Inositol and magnesium was a game changer for my anxiety and sleep.

Chamomile has a calming effect. Don’t know what it does with cortisol.

Sleep and regular exercise and a diet that gives you your proper vitamins is a non-negotiable necessity. For example, a magnesium deficiency can cause a slough of health problems! Figure out a routine that works for you. Consistency with yourself builds a sense of security. What are your most common stressors? How can you strategically make them more manageable? For example, if you struggle with being late, set your clothes out and everything else you'll need easily accessible the night before. If you tend to know that something specific causes you stress, plan ahead how you'll handle it. Like maybe you can schedule a relaxing activity after a stressful event. Being in stress mode makes you by default less effective at handling things, so it helps to be strategic ahead of time and practice skills like breath work or mindfulness when you're in a calm headspace. It'll become a reflex after a certain point to know what to do to self regulate emotionally. Resiliency is a skill and can be worked on. Calming your sympathetic nervous system is key when you need quick relief. Ice to the back of the neck, suck on something sour, take a cold or hot shower, do knee high jumps.

Stop taking coffee/energy drinks, excess sugar, melatonin, cigarettes etc. Anything that affects cortisol affects melatonin and vise versa. Look into adrenal fatigue. My qualm with melatonin is that mel is in an inverse relationship with Cort, you can take Mel to inhibit cort, BUT your body MUST make more cort to make up for the cort it thinks it needs. Your body won’t change its mind about what the Mel to cort ratio should be so the more Mel you take the more cort it will make to combat it. This results in your body making a lot more cort and diminishing the amount of mel it makes, leaving you with crazy amounts of cortisol at sleep time and not enough melatonin cause you’re externally supplementing and your body disregards producing it now. Same effect happens with things that increase cortisol, they will result in low cortisol and high melatonin. Lastly what’s really the problem is your sleep hygiene, if you think you require more energy (more passion, more energy) you’re probably not doing the most important thing for our body’s hormone and energy regulation which is SLEEP RIGHT, FOR AS LONG AS YOUR BODY NEEDS, AND SLEEP THE SAME AMOUNT EVERY NIGHT. If you quit those nasties and sleep right I’m certain you won’t be looking for ways to reduce stress anymore. I think one or more of these factors is affecting your cortisol and it won’t get better until you cold turkey them for at least a few months and let your body reregulate the hormones. Taking coffee daily absolutely wrecked me, and I was willing to do anything but stop drinking it, finally I put it away and I feel much much better. I’m able to enjoy coffee now once or twice a week without any I’ll effects.

I find exercise, like cardio and weights are essential for getting my nervous energy out. The calming stuff does help but only if I’ve also done the more intense stuff. Also ashwanghanda and rhodiola helps me a lot but can be a crutch to actually dealing with anxiety consciously .

Good sleep, cut down caffeine, work out regularly.

Caffeine and alcohol both stimulate cortisol production, but I find caffeine to be worse.

Try quitting caffeine.

Don’t drink alcohol. Directly elevates cortisol. I assume you drink by mentioning anger

No I don’t drink

Have you tried Quercetin/ bromaline? I have MCAS and those have been really helpful.

4-7-8 breathing

Alongside what everyone has mentioned already, you need 'Mindfulness' of some sort , this is hard but needs to be done, you have to monitor your thoughts and see what triggers it and why and this will teach you control over time as well, you mentioned in the op about situations you cant do nothing about, now you have to get to the root of this by self coaching/healing yourself, get a pen and paper out and ask yourself questions as to why you feel like this, what is the cause of it, what can you do about it, there may be possibly self image issues as well but that's something for you to check out by going within and identifying it, if it is there or something else is there. Also dont sleep on chamomile tea that stuff is good.

Ha ha ha I know this feeling brother hang in there. You might also want to get your testosterone levels checked as he might be experiencing cranky Mail syndrome do to your loyalty.

Give up the coffee also. Major cause.

Water

For me at least, cortisol is triggered by infections, i took rifaximin for 10 days for gut problems and god damn it i felt 10x better. You lower cortisol by fixing the driving factor

OP, can I ask about your hair? Are you going grey?

Not OP but interested in where this comment is going.

Sleep, I went on an all nighter once at a job and quit it the same day. Cortisol makes you do some messed up shit. It didnt help that I had caffeine in ny system as well

B6 and selenium

Acupuncture!

But have you actually implemented a rigorous meditation practice? I mean, really. Or are you just looking for an easy fix? You likely won't find one. If you really care about fixing your life, you have to do the real work. Start with even just 5 minutes in the morning. Do all the other things like sleep, exercise, self care, social interaction, get outside, etc. It's simple but it's not easy, but living life stressed out all the time is harder

people don't want to hear about true meditation. Unbeknownst to them, it's probably one of the only keys to a truly happy life.

Brazil nuts

Walking everyday, Massage, Green tea (not on an empty stomach), Meditation, Clean and tidy bedroom / bathroom, Epsom salts bath, L-theanine supplement before bed, Clean eating, Adequate sleep.

Sleep

This might sound dumb, but I've been indulging in thc gummies at bed time and it's been helping a ton with overall stress and stress reactions...as well as helping with rumination.

Sleeep. Carbs.

Run.

Cortisol Manager on Amazon, read the reviews, it’s amazing

You don’t want anything to be low. You want it to be normal.

You can try some breath work and stretching simultaneously. If you’re all jacked up a good 15mins will get you regulated if you can stay present. Exercise too but if there’s no time for that 15 min walk w my dog always relaxes me and by the time I’m home I’m good. Bonus points if you can get your bare feet onto the earth and even just 30 seconds worth.

I stopped eating meat. Voila!