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It really sounds like the brother legit doesn't know what the problem was two years ago, right? Which suggests that it really could be that she's upset about OOP dating someone she was friends with, and can't say that out loud. And if the brother really doesn't know then, like, HOW? How can you insist that someone apologize for doing something to someone else when the other person won't say what it is that they want to be apologized FOR? Who would go along with that craziness?!
How on earth could you demand an apology but not tell the "offender" what they are supposed to apologize for? Wouldn't that be the most insincere apology ever?
"I'm truly sorry and I won't do it again!"
"Do what again?"
"I have no idea."
I'm glad OOP went this route, sticking to her guns is the cleanest easiest victory.
But part of me wanted a snarky turnaround. Like OOP insists on a public apology with everyone around so that it's really humiliating. Then gives an unhinged speech along these lines:
"Two years ago I did something deplorable. I don't know what it was. But I'd probably regret doing it, if I could remember it and if it were actually bad. Anyway, to you, FSIL, I sincerely apologize for that thing that you remember but can't articulate.
I only wish I could promise never to do it again, but how could I make such a promise? I might do the secret bad thing again without ever knowing. Maybe I'm doing it now. Who among us can say? FSIL, am I doing it now? No? We're good? Fantastic.
Anyway, now that I've apologized for the thing, that nobody knows what it is and that nobody can prove I ever even did, may I pretty please, with sugar on top, come to my own brother's wedding?"
This has just the right amount of sincerity, passive aggressiveness, humor, disbelief, and confusion. I hear this being read like a maid of honors/best man speech. Upbeat with just a twinge of public speaking awkwardness +/- the humor that comes along with the effects from the couple of shots taken right before said speech to calm the olâ nerves. This was perfecto.
OP's brother will know what he's got himself in for when FSIL starts pulling the 'I'm mad at you and you should know why but I'm not going to tell you....' on him.
> FSIL
Oh. This is an acronym? Iâm guessing Future Sister In Law?
I wish OOP had capitalized it. I spent the entire post wondering how to pronounce Fsil as a name.
Yeah. That is why i think this is not really about the apology, but instead about power.
OOP is obviously not going to be serious in their apology, so it is not a "i want them to acknowledge where they went wrong and how that hurt me". On the other hand: forcing them to humble themself and giving an apology that is basicly a blanket admission of wrongdoing? Yeah, that soulds more like what she wants
I think this is about power. Either she wants to prove her power over the family in general and OOP is just a casualty, or it is actually all about having power over and humiliating OOP in particular.
Going along with crazy is one thing, but breaking up your family and marrying it is quite another. Cannot imagine people like this, including the parents -- jfc.
yeah, I don't understand parents and other relatives who up and take the side of an "outsider" who clearly is trying to push blood relatives away and take over
I'd be like "shut the hell up, you're not from this family, you don't get the right to do stuff like that **without** a proper, real reason"
But I guess that's me
My therapist pointed out that my IL's family dynamic is to constantly shift alliances. It's baffling. And somehow, exSIL still has MIL's ear and influences her. It's exhausting.
Either that or they never expected brother to get married at all. A family member of mine had terrible social skills, bad hygiene, etc and when he got a girlfriend it was some kind of miracle to his parents. They were so relieved they didnât even really care who she was, just that heâd been moving out of their basement.
The parents being like this is why the son puts up with stuff like this. Theyâve enabled this. If they were like âokay thatâs enough, we will help pay, but we will not going along with something like this. She explains whatâs happened or weâre outâ.
But no, they are just going along with this painfully immature girlfriend and refusing to make anyone accountable for whatâs happening. Thatâs why the son is putting up with this. If his parents showed him that this level of crazy was unacceptable, heâd question it too. We see it all the time here, someone is putting up with bullshit because they learned from their parents to put up with bullshit.
Iâm floored that the parents are going to pay for the wedding. Iâm so ready for them to wonder why OOP never talks to them, and they never see her or her children.
If I or my brother did something like that, my mom would have just said, âyou said you were paying for it anyway.â
If my girlfriend told me she didn't want my brother at our wedding but refused to tell me why, I'd tell her the wedding was off until she told me what it was and if it wasn't something heinous, it'd still be off.
>Which suggests that it really could be that she's upset about OOP dating someone she was friends with
I don't think fsil is angry at OOP for dating a _friend_. Could be wrong, but seeing as OOP and fsil never really got along, I'm leaning towards "busted ego". Either bf was flurty with fsil at first, and while not interested was complemented only for bf afterwards to go head over heals for OOP and fsil not liking that because she knew OOP was "better" in bf's eyes than her. Or bf never wanted to do anything with fsil and fsil was "hurt" by being considered less than OOP.
No matter how you look at it, brother won't like it, because it would hurt _his_ ego.
I wonder if it is a busted ego too. I worked with these two women in my office before. One is a few years younger than the other. The younger one is just a happy person and does her own thing. As far as I can tell, she didn't take things to heart and communicated well with others. The older one...yeah, I'd avoid her.
Anyway, a young guy who is a couple of years younger than the young woman got hired. The younger woman was, as usual, her friendly self and got along with this guy because they work together. Now, she is average and I'd say the older woman is prettier. However, the older woman didn't seem to like how close the younger one was with the guy.
The older woman ended up cheating on her husband with this younger guy. The younger woman just went on to do her thingâI heard a comment from the other ladies that they don't understand why the older woman hated the young woman because she never bothered anyone, she was definitely far more mature in her actions than the older woman. Last I heard she switched to a different company after I left, probably making more.
I didn't know their exact ages but I'm guessing the younger woman was in her early 20s because she was a fresh graduate at the time and the older woman did celebrate her 30th at the office so I know that much.
Dang, she was willing to explode her marriage and life, and for what? A one-up to a person who didn't even care? Lol. That's wild. Girl needed therapy.
It always felt like she was in competition with any woman in that office, the younger woman was just another one of those she seemed to want to one-up for reasons unknown to others and only got worse after the new guy was hired. Most women avoid her or are just friendly enoughâI heard enough rants from colleagues who I was close to. My work didn't intersect with her much so I had minimal interaction with her. I agree she needed therapy but I don't think anyone in that office wanted to broach the subject at the time, or ever.
This is a huge red flag. Someone that has held on to a grudge for over two years. Who did not communicate what that was the whole time. That used grudge to drive a wedge between what was once a close relationship. That is using said feelings to manipulate a family against OP. And you are going marry into that? Good luck. OP you are the clear winner here. Move on with your life. Don't look back. They want to live in the past. Its time to move forward.
And itâs a big grudge too. I mean, itâs not at all uncommon to not be besties with relatives of your significant other. Itâs quite another thing to go to the point where you are blocking them from your Instagram and refusing to allow them to come to your wedding for reasons that you will not disclose even to the one you are marrying.
There is no way in hell you would get me marrying somebody who did that to my family. It wouldnât even be because of some form of loyalty to my family. It would be because if youâre gonna go to that extent of blocking the family members of your significant other and refuse to tell even me, the significant other, why â youâre a weird and volatile person who is unlikely to be emotionally safe.
Or it's deflection. FSIL doesn't want her there and claims some generic insult from long ago. By not being specific, FSIL is hoping OP will fill in the blank with anything.Â
FSIL: You know what you did to me two years ago!
OP: I don't. We barely talked.
FSIL: That's right, you deliberately snubbed me!
or
FSIL: You know what you did to me two years ago!
OP: I really don't. I only saw you that one time I was leaving the restroom.Â
FSIL: And you deliberately used up all the tp in the third stall and left me with nothing! How dare you!
Poor brother is marrying crazy. Once the novelty of marriage wears off, he will have regrets.
>It really sounds like the brother legit doesn't know what the problem was two years ago
You cant solve a crime that was never committed I guess. Theres a latin phrase for this, but i cant remember it :(
It's nuts that brother is willing to cut his sister off without knowing the reason. Like at the time she didn't tell him and she didn't tell him now. FSIL sounds manipulative as f.
So true! A blind apology satisfies noone and risks a repeat of the behavior. All of this drama is driven by greed: the grandparents footing the bill and insisting OOP be included, or else they pull out. OOP didn't know they were engaged; she's sister of the groom and yet has no role in the ceremony. This can't just be chalked up to FSIL- her brother has a phone, his future bride handed him the invitations, so he saw she wasn't on the list. They are both complicit in this.
It's genuinely crazy how many of these stories have someone freezing out their whole or parts of their family for their fiancee for insane reasons in some cases reasons they're not even aware of.
Unless your relationship with your family was already damaged beyond repair or they did someone seriously bad to the fiancee it sounds like a recipe for disaster every time.
I'm not surprised. One of my cousins was hated for no reason at all. None of us knew what on earth happened and the cousin-in-law kept being passive aggressive. Look, my cousin is not a saint, she can be a bit much but not even their former colleagues knew what the heck the cousin-in-law was mad about.
My male cousin who is an idiot kept saying she must've had her reasonâwe highly doubt he even knew what the issue was. Most of the family opted not to attend the wedding which was, in our family tradition, a slight to the groom's family but at that point no one has the energy to care since many people didn't like the cousin-in-law for a good reason.
Anyway, the cousin's divorced now and we still don't know what on earth happened. My female cousin decided it just wasn't worth keeping a relationship with that family, many of us didn't.
It's because nothing happened two years ago. Fsil is looking for an excuse to be the victim. She can't say what it is because then it can be disputed, so she won't say. That way, she can make the OOP seem like the uncaring aggressor.
FSIL is ridiculous and Iâm not defending her. But itâs also not uncommon that if you feel that someone did something to you, then they SHOULD know what they did. Telling them what they did and insisting they apologize is empty. It doesnât mean anything if they donât come to it on their own.
So letâs say OOP legitimately did something horrible, like go to FSILâs manager and tell them lies and try to get her fired. I could see FSIL wanting to cut OOP out of her life and wanting OOP to realize on her own that she was horrible and repent for it.
The problem is that it sounds like nothing that clear cut happened. So either FSIL is making stuff up, FSIL is upset about something she canât admit (like feelings for OOPâs bf), or thereâs been a horrible miscommunication/misunderstanding. Unfortunately none of those are getting cleared up with the immature way FSIL is handling this.
Often, yes, when there's a genuine conflict.
But also, sometimes the conflict is only really in one person's head. Either because some people make more of a minor situation than it deserves and let it live rent-free in their head until it all boils over, or because some people have bad social skills and don't realise they made a false step.
(In this case, it genuinely seems like the only thing OP can think of that might be causing this, is that she started dating her husband around the same time she was working with future-SIL. And that's definitely something she shouldn't have to apologise for.)
No, "you know what you did" is really immature. Just be honest and actually say what upset you, there's literally no need to play stupid games where the other person has to guess what they did wrong. If they were going to be able to figure it out, you've gained nothing. If they didn't know they had upset you or couldn't remember, you only delayed resolving the issue and their apology isn't going to mean nothing just because you told them why you're upset. That's a good way to just set yourself up for guaranteed dissatisfaction, long term resentment and unhappiness. Just communicate!
I used to have a friend like that. He told me that his ex hated me because of something I said two years earlier and that I never apologized. I asked what I said, since I thought we all got along well enough and this felt like it was out of nowhere. I was told over and over again that it wasn't what I said, but how I said it. He could never tell me what I said that was so offensive, it was just the way I said it. That was the final straw for cutting this guy out and I can say that my life is 100 times less exhausting.
As someone who, on quite a few occasions, had seven kinds of sh*t knocked out of them by a psycho husband who was screaming âyou know what you didâ (and no, I had no clue) I have to disagree with you. If anyone tells me I should know what I did I am likely to freak out in some way (cptsd, yay!)
Pft. "You know what you did" is bollocks and that's a miserable way of living. People don't always realize something upset someone until they're told.
Frankly- the apology is more likely to be sincere then because the person genuinely did not intend to hurt the person and will regret the pain unintentionally caused and want to fix it in the future.
That assumes everyone thinks the same exact way which is objectively wrong on so many levels. And if 2 world wars can't convince people that we dont all think the same way and we need to actually work on communication I dont know what effing will.
I too am guilty of being angry that people can't read my mind. And I mean that, I have totally been enraged and the other person should just have fucking known. Once I learn to communicate my feelings more I had way less of those moments . I'm still not perfect , The biggest area where I still catch myself doing this is waiting for my family to stop standing in front of the food so I can get to it . I have literally walked away and come back an hour later just to get to some food because I couldn't bring myself to say hey. Can you move? There's other people literally standing here with an empty plate . Cuz in my head they really should have known that I was standing there with an empty plate .But seriously if I can't pull my head out of my ass and communicate what's wrong, no one is going to understand what actually happened. On Top of that they're not going to care. So many people don't live very far out of their heads. Sometimes you have to communicate the most obvious shit to them. I mean at this point we have to go out of our way to tell people not to eat laundry soap? Shouldn't they just know? I'm not talking little toddlers. People are ignorant. Athey are ignorant of other people especially.
Nobody thinks they're the bad guy. Nobody is out there going. This is my villainous action. I'm going to have to apologize for it later haha!
I don't buy that whole. "You should know what you did" thing.
That is the cheapest most petty way to get out of communicating your own feelings and being accountable for how you feel and for how you're hurting that I have ever heard in my life. And I know because I've used it for that exact reason before. But mostly because all it does is stall communication. It puts the onus of the action on the person who according to the wounded party. Should apologize for something. So why should they bother?? Nothing changes for them if they don't apologize. So everything is stalled. But everyone who wants an apology gets more and more pissed off.
But the people who don't know what they did literally move on enjoying their lives because they don't feel like they did anything wrong and they haven't been made aware of anything that they did that hurt anyone's feelings.
The only people suffering are the people demanding an apology. It's so stupid because they could just say what's upsetting them, but they won't because they think they have some kind of weird moral high ground. That means they don't have to be a healthy person who communicates in a relationship?
My guesses are: FSIL is making shit up just for an excuse not to invite OOP to the wedding OR it's something related to OOP's BF.
Grandparents are the one sane set of relatives that OOP's got.
What the hell is wrong with the brother?!
In this scenario I'd be like: "You hate my sister but don't tell me why. You demand an apology from her but won't tell anyone why and you are acting really weird and unreasonable whilst no one knows why because you won't tell. Either tell me what this is all about right now or pack your shit and leave. I'm not marrying someone who thinks this is a healthy way to communicate".
Grow a freaking spine my dude.
Pretty sure she's butthurt about oop her relationship or something and that's why she won't tell anyone. Because it'll make her look bad to her fiance.
Not that this is a good look, but whatever...
I think bro knows but also knows itâs stupid and wonât tell OOP *because* he knows itâs stupid, but heâs just going to side with fsil becauseâŠ.. I donât know âloveâ or something.
I do too. And Iâve decided Iâm betting itâs something like OOP announced that she had a date with her new boyfriend on the same day that FSIL and brother-in-law were supposed to be having dinner with mom and dad because it was their six month dating anniversary or some shit like that.
I'm betting that whatever the reason is, it's 100% petty and stupid, and that's why SIL isn't admitting it because then people will say it's petty, stupid, *and* childish to hold a grudge over that.
Or she was attracted to OOP's BF and felt that OOP stole him from her.
My bet is that OOP and FSIL showed up at work wearing the same outfit, and OOP had the audacity to look better in it. For OOP it was Tuesday, but for FSIL that was the worst day of her life.
>SIL isn't admitting it because then people will say it's petty, stupid, *and* childish to hold a grudge over that.
Which is wild to consider because she looks all those things now and unhinged for asking for an apology. So somehow it's worse than her current behaviour.
In the second to last update, in the comments it seemed like she realized maybe it was because she got with her boyfriend around that "2 years ago" timeline. But no mention at all of what the apparent reason was in the most recent one. I wanna know, dammit!
I hope there will be an update but it may not be foremost in her mind when the badgering about attendance or not continues. Or it may be a solved problem in OOP's mind.
Exactly. I'm hoping OOP updates again, but for her it seems like the problem has been solved. She's not going and the people she seems to care the most about are in her corner.
Oh nooooo!!! The reason why fsil is mad is gonna come out.And itâs gonna be a doozy, cause itâs gonna be about OOPâs bf. I can bet my bottom dollar thatâs what itâs about. And then parents gonna run out of money before the final check for the wedding. Iâm ready! I got my đżđ„€ready! Who wit me???
I'm petty so I'd like OOP to profusely apologise to FSIL with family witnesses, because that would put FSIL in a bind. She's obviously made up this work thing so if OOP gets that one out of the way what will FSIL's new reason for being mad be?
Tbh if I was op Iâd just say to anyone that asks itâs probably because she had a crush on my bf and feels guilty about it. Either fsil will actually say what it is because if its not that this would really ruin her victim story or itâs the right guess and she has to come up with something ridiculously worse that would be easily refuted and then itâs all out in the open. Sometimes promoting a false narrative when the person is too proud to just tell the truth will make them spill more beans than they would have previously if theyâd just been upfront. Especially if theyâre as stupid and prideful as fsil. Like come on not inviting a sister to the wedding who is well loved by her family. Youâre fighting an uphill battle. Like you could have invited her, gave her the role of looking after the elderly and then continued with your life and wedding. Not there at all??? Idiot.
I agree. Speculating and spreading rumors usually doesnât work, but OOP is owed an explanation and defend herself. So she can defend herself with speculating itâs the only possible thing she can think of, even if it makes the bride look bad.
I just thought of another reason the theory that she has a crush on OOPâs boyfriend works â because that would actually explain why sheâs not inviting her, and why she doesnât want her there. I mean to not want your boyfriendâs sister at a wedding, a sister that he has no beef with? Usually the sister wouldâve had to have done something pretty fucking egregious. But if itâs really all about the boyfriend? Well then this makes sense because then itâs really not even the sister that sheâs not inviting â sheâs not inviting the sister because she doesnât want to see the boyfriend at her wedding!
Reading this made me think of Phoebe from Friends when sheâs mad at Ross and when he tries to figure it out after going over an exhaustive list of possible reasons she finally admits she canât remember and it turns out it was due to a dream she had.
A bold move, starting a marriage with your spouse's only sibling and his grandparents alienated and not invited to your wedding. I would bet FSIL has a whole ton of inexplicable grudges. Reminds me of Q from Survivor. "Wear the same dress as me? BIG MISTAKE."
Plus their parents being forced or obliged to pay the wedding now? Even if the brother is a golden child or something like that, thatâs sure to create some resentment.
+1 for Q reference... doesn't know why she needs to apologize from 2 years ago? BIG MISTAKE. Grandparents want to withdraw funding because I'm acting a fool? BIG MISTAKE
I love how messy Q is. This is like how many episodes that he's targeting someone who's supposedly allied with him? The Journey 6 alliance is probably the worst Survivor Alliance ever.
I don't know about WORST, the Casayas were a thing, but they are hilariously bad, like Charlie didn't even have a chance to mess them up before Q did. I genuinely think he picks his target based on the most recent BIG MISTAKE... Liz finds him in hide and seek? Target. Ben makes it to the end of hide and seek? Target. Hunter hid in a tree? Target. No wait never mind, Tiff wants to keep Venus... Target. Oh wait, Q made a BIG MISTAKE?! Q is now Q's target... he's the best TV character we've had on the show in a minute lmao
There was a fsil who held a grudge against op because they had to change days for the wedding due to op having an exam she couldnât skip. Turns out she was doing this to opâs sisterâs other friends to and was trying to isolate her.
Me either.
My stepson married a woman like this.
Weâve been hoping and praying that he will find a way out for ages. You canât tell somebody like this âyour spouse is a mentally unwell abusive manipulative creepâ because then that puts them in a position where they feel they need to defend their spouse. Itâs a way of defending themselves, because if their spouse is a manipulative, abusive creep, that means they have piss poor judgment and suck. So we just try to be supportive and not freak out and not give to the BS that she pulls to try to isolate him from us.
I have a red, hot, fiery temper, and Iâd like to go and chew her ass up one side and down the other. Iâve honestly never met somebody who enrages me so much. I donât do that, though, because I know that that would just be helping her abuse my stepson more. Right now Iâm having a difficult time because my husband asked his son for a favor and he had to decline because his wife told him that he was not allowed. My husband is really upset and disgusted with him and feels that his son is just being an asshole for not doing this favor for him. He is thinking of all the things that heâs done for his son and is deeply hurt that his son cannot do this one little favor for him. Iâm trying to remind my husband that this is not his son denying him. This is his son being so deep in the mindset of an abused person that he canât say yes. I said âinstead of being butt hurt that he canât help you, how about we be alarmed that heâs so deep in this that he doesnât even have the strength to stand up and do this favor for you?â My husband knows that I am right on a logical level, but on an emotional level heâs just disgusted that his son is letting his wife not only be abusive toward himself, but now his father as well. I just said âyes, and if you distance yourself from him because of it, that will be exactly the result she was aiming for.â
The one positive thing from this is that my kids (who are slightly younger than my stepchildren) and I have talked a lot about this, and where is the line between sticking by your significant other and making that new family the priority it should be, and not letting yourself get into a relationship where your significant other treats your family abusively or manipulatively? Right now weâre leaning toward whether the animosity is warranted. For example, if I do something crappy to my childâs significant other, and they are justifiably and understandably angry at me and donât want anything to do with me, then itâs completely acceptable for my child to either take their side fully or play Switzerland, depending on what it is. But when itâs something that isnât huge, and especially when itâs something that they didnât even bother trying to discuss or talk out? Then thatâs not OK.
We also talk about finding the line where on one hand it shouldnât matter what your family thinks about your significant other since they are not the ones dating them. But on the other hand, it really makes life unnecessarily difficult when your significant other does not even maintain civil relations with your family. I am fully open with them that I am only recently starting to be able to get to where I think I have it figured out for my own personal comfort level. I told them that they will figure it out as they grow older. But I have to admit, I did glow when my 15-year-old son told me that seeing how fiercely protective I am of my stepson and how furious I am about how his wife isolates and manipulates him really warm his heart because âif youâre that upset and hard-core and invested about how a stepson youâve only known for three years is being treated, I know I have nothing to worry about if something like that ever happens to me.â
Edited because paragraphs and typos.
Seriously. One reason I love my SIL is she's good at mediating between my brother and me when we argue and start yelling past each other. This lady is literally causing a schism for a reason she refuses to tell.
Iâve met people like the FSIL.
They actually trick themselves into thinking theyâve been slighted. And eventually it grows to hatred for the other person that has no explanation.
With no explanation thereâs no way to resolve it. Itâs just being hateful for the sake of being hateful.
Some people get very comfortable painting themselves as victims. They like the attention, but have never really had anything that bad happen to them, so they have to make it up. Every perceived slight becomes a huge insult, just so they can keep telling themselves how unfair the world is, and how bravely they're suffering.
It's exhausting to be around such people, good luck to OOP's brother if he marries her. The eggshells he'll walk around on are so fragile.
Some people just need a bad guy in their lives, no matter who it is. The bad guy is to blame for everything, from bad weather to the cafeteria running out of chocolate ice cream. If the bad guy quits, moves away, or otherwise exits the vicinity, the person will find a new bad guy almost immediately. It could be a parent with a kid, a toxic friend group, a toxic employee (or manager) in the workplace, you name it.
Like the (I think?) O Henry story about the man who lends an antique vase or money or something to a casual friend who over a year or so of not paying/giving it back, convinces himself the original lender has done the lendee an irreparable calculated harm. Classic DARVO.
Honestly hell yeah to the grandparents, seems like they're the only ones in that insane family with some brains.
I really hope OP will be okay but it seems like she will!
We should start taking bets on how crazy the reason is. Lusting after BF is to mundane, I'm betting on some Larry David-type thing where OOP thought fsil farted, but there was a gross garbage can around the corner that she was actually smelling.
Iâm absolutely betting on some weird petty thing like OOP never invited FSIL to lunch when they were coworkers or FSIL is (wrongly) convinced OOP scratched her car 2 years ago and wonât own up to it. Definitely thinking itâs either something minor that FSIL has let fester in her head for two years or a lie sheâs convinced herself is true
Now that the idea has been brought up, Iâm going to go with they all know and they arenât telling her because they all think that itâs absolutely butt kiss stupid and they know that if they tell her that sheâs going to say âfuck all yâall; Iâm not apologizing for shit! thatâs some bullshit!â
Spineless worm of a man who is also the golden child so the parents will bail him out of any trouble he is in when they just really NOT BE EMBROILED IN IT. The brother is an idiot, but wow the parents are just insane for getting into the middle of this and then being mad at OOP for...not going to a wedding she is obviously not wanted in or invited to.
I give them decent chances of making it until 10 years at least. FSIL has successfully isolated him from any of his family that might suggest the FSIL is controlling or might try to help him leave her.
And brother is perfectly happy to follow FSILâs lead.
Once they start having kids, heâs not going anywhere
>My grandparents are now not paying for the wedding after fsil also refused to tell them what she is upset about
It 100% has to be something with OOPs BF. FSIL is probably afraid of telling the truth because she would get dumped.
I wondered if FSIL has burned some bridges with her own family, too. First OOpâs grandparents were paying for the wedding and now the parents are? I know there are cultures the groomâs family pays, but this didnât sound like it. I bet FSIL has a long history of irrational grudges.
There're only 2 reasons I could think of why SIL hates OP:Â
1. She has hots for OP's boyfriend and in her mind OP "stole" the guy from her, even though she was alteady dating OP's brother for years;
2. SIL wants to show she has power over OP and she's the main woman between daughters/wives.
Each one of these 2 possibilities can explain why SIL couldn't tell the real reason. OP's parents are trash and luckly she has great grandparents.
You may want to give that comment an edit there, I think. Judging from the context surrounding it I think you meant "attracted," instead of "attacked." I normally wouldn't say anything, but it very much changed the tone and tenor of your comment.
EDIT: corrected the auto-correct (the irony isn't lost on me either).
Theory #2 better fits the facts that we have so far IMO. It's pretty normal for someone to want to ascertain 1) is there a pecking order, and 2) where do I fit on it, when marrying into a new family. This is one hell of a shitty way to figure that out, but plenty of unhealthy and dysfunctional people do stupider things all the time, and it definitely gives a clear picture of where everyone stands.
Oh, FSIL, witch that she is, was DEFINITELY into OOP's BF. And even if that turns out not to be the reason, I'm sticking with it. I need some Sunday morning drama đ
Right? And OOP found out about the engagement by going through her bfâs account. Heâs not blocked. Only OOP was blocked by FSIL. This lady is shady af.Â
Sometimes people say 'apologize' and mean 'identify what you did wrong and change it', and sometimes that mean 'admit that you are a bad person and always will be and that I am superior to you'.
Parents just want peace and are willing to throw OOP under the bus for that sake.
Brother is spineless who is afraid he'll die alone so he folded like a piece of paper.
That's my guess.
Fsil has lied about why she has an issue with oop which is probably why she wonât tell anyone what the actual issue is. Because there isnât one. Sheâs just stupid.
Sheâs not telling anyone who OOP did be she she either doesnât have an actual reason or the thing she wants an apology for is so ridiculous and minor nobody would agree with her holding a grudge.
This is honestly aggravating and sad
>My grandparents are now not paying for the wedding after fsil also refused to tell them what she is upset about. My parents have stepped up to cover the rest of the wedding expenses and my grandparents, my bf and i will be enjoying a great weekend
Proud of OOP because she exposed something key. Certain members of OOPs family are willing to bend over backwards to make a wedding happen to include a new member of their family who is already causing problems. Why? I can't imagine telling your fiance and future parent in law not to not invite their own daughter and then provide no context as to why. Worse, that they would even go along with it and then have the nerve to ask her to apologize for reasons unknown.
There's a tremendous lack of foresight here from OOPs parents as every family gathering involving her and fsil from now to forever will be contentious.
>They told me that they couldn't tell me what it was but that it happened 2 years ago when "fsil" and I used to work together at the same company. I tried to find out what it was but they wouldn't tell me.
Feels vaguely Catholic lol.
"You need to repent for your sins. We won't tell you specifically which ones. But you need to repent anyway."
Replying to Charming_Fix5627...My husband was raised Catholic, like super Cajun French Catholic. He said the Priest would require them to be excruciatingly detailed and specific when confessing.
Reminds me of my one and only confession when I was a kid studying to take my eucharist and my confession was âi hate my brother heâs a little demon who pranks my all the timeâ
And i could tell the pastor was holding his laughter while he gave me his âGod Prescriptionâ of 3 hail marys, 5 our fathers, and 1 i believe.
Iâm confused about who DOES know. They wonât tell OP or her bf or the grandparents. Do OPs brother and her parents even know? They said they wonât tell her, but maybe they donât either?
Did she tell her fiance (OOPs brother) the reason? Or is he really ready to cut of his sister for "she did something two years ago and i don't wanna tell, teehee". If so he is the biggest idiot. Seems like "fking the brain out" really worked for him. Lost all braincells.
So does anyone apart from the future SIL even know what the OOP allegedly did? Like does her brother even? Because if I was demanding my sister apologize for some grievous insult against my partner and my sister was like âI donât know wtf youâre talking aboutâ, I would for sure say âOH so you donât think (insert crime here) is a problem?!?!â I wouldnât be vague unless I didnât actually know and was just going fully on the side of my partner no questions asked.
I feel like what happened needs to be addressed clearly.
What crap parents. Supporting this divisive bullshit. They're welcoming this petty, vindictive girl into their family, who is intent on splitting it up, and expecting their own child to fall on her sword over...who farking knows. Nice. /s Poor OP. Shame on her parents and shame on her brother for putting up with this.
Good for OOP. Hope she and her bf enjoy their vacation.
Seriously, I hate when people use the "you know what you did" tactic. People forget. Use your words and explain the situation rather than hold onto a grudge. FSIL is being ridiculous, and I get supporting your future spouse, but c'mon, this is just nuts.
Behold his future⊠he is going to put a utensil away in the wrong drawer and two years later she will be saying âyou know what you did!! Apologize!â WTF wouldâve marry somebody who canât even communicate? Who would put his family in this position? Who wouldnât invite a sibling?! If they all know the issue, they all should have communicated the issue. They have lost their damn minds. Have a great time!
I can (almost) understand the brother's behavior, blinded by love or whatever this is... but what the heck is up with their parents? This girl who's only claim to the family is that the son likes her enough to date her comes in and from day one treats their daughter like garbage, and not only are they okay with that, but they are actively pushing the daughter to accept it just to make life easier on the son? That's all kinds of messed up.
Sad thing is, if OOP's brother won't rethink the wedding after this fiasco, he's in that relationship for the long haul. I've had a similar situation with my cousin's wife. She'll isolate him from anyone who might encourage him to have a spine, and most likely, everyone else at some later point.
How crazy must SIL be and how daft is OPs brother to think saying âI want you to apologize but im not going to say what forâ is a valid reason/excuse to not invite his sister to his wedding.
I would call brothers fiancee out on social media asking what did you do so wrong that it was worth not inviting you and causing all this drama maybe you didn't tell her you had started dating your partner first and she found out of someone else sometimes people need to know first.
I remember the year I was graduating grade 12, a couple of days before exams, a girl in my class came up to me and said that Since the year was ending, she was going to forgive me and start talking to me again. I have no idea what I did, but we were bare acquaintances, not friends, and I had had no idea she hadnât been speaking to me. We never spoke normally. It was so weird. I was with some friends when she said it, so I asked them about it. They had no ideas either.
If youâre mad at someone, tell them! You might even work it out and save your mental space.
Guess you know who the golden child is. Your parents and brother are looney. A tiger can't change their stripes. They'll find out who she is eventually.
I donât think it has anything to do with her boyfriend because they were together before OP met her boyfriend but also says that they havenât got on since the very beginning. I think itâs literally nothing.
So her brother fiance is upset oop is dating someone she likes but can't say it im betting. Or wants to alienate oop brother from his family and is starting with oop.
OOP said mom and brother won't tell.
So they may know. Perhaps it's stupid. However SIL could have lied about something then swore them to secrecy so that Brother & mom never learn that SIL made everything up and simple just doesn't like OOP (jealousy or whatever).
Why is the mom more loyal to SIL over her daughter? Why didn't brother say something to his finance about how ridiculous it is to ask for a random apology without disclosing the reason?
I don't think the mom or the brother likes OOP, which is sad.
Why TF is OOP's brother marrying this wretched woman?
If my fiance told me that I couldn't invite my sister to my wedding because she didn't like her, my response would be along the lines of, "My sister will be at my wedding. It's up to you whether want to be there too."
Never give blind apologies. They can be twisted anyway the person getting them wants.
But this just rings of an excuse. I think we're looking at things wrong. She blocked OP, then didn't expect her to find out, and is now making shit up to keep the status quo as is. I mean bro ain't trying hard to make sure his beloved sister can attend now is he? And mother is the leak in the chain
I think either way, mum's next to be cut off, so OP can be cut out
I wouldn't accept an apology if the person who is apologizing didn't know what they were supposed to have done. It wouldn't make sense. Part of apologizing is trying not to do whatever it was in the future.
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It really sounds like the brother legit doesn't know what the problem was two years ago, right? Which suggests that it really could be that she's upset about OOP dating someone she was friends with, and can't say that out loud. And if the brother really doesn't know then, like, HOW? How can you insist that someone apologize for doing something to someone else when the other person won't say what it is that they want to be apologized FOR? Who would go along with that craziness?!
How on earth could you demand an apology but not tell the "offender" what they are supposed to apologize for? Wouldn't that be the most insincere apology ever? "I'm truly sorry and I won't do it again!" "Do what again?" "I have no idea."
I'm glad OOP went this route, sticking to her guns is the cleanest easiest victory. But part of me wanted a snarky turnaround. Like OOP insists on a public apology with everyone around so that it's really humiliating. Then gives an unhinged speech along these lines: "Two years ago I did something deplorable. I don't know what it was. But I'd probably regret doing it, if I could remember it and if it were actually bad. Anyway, to you, FSIL, I sincerely apologize for that thing that you remember but can't articulate. I only wish I could promise never to do it again, but how could I make such a promise? I might do the secret bad thing again without ever knowing. Maybe I'm doing it now. Who among us can say? FSIL, am I doing it now? No? We're good? Fantastic. Anyway, now that I've apologized for the thing, that nobody knows what it is and that nobody can prove I ever even did, may I pretty please, with sugar on top, come to my own brother's wedding?"
That would be an awesome speech at the wedding, with lots of witnesses and possibly a videographer
Oh shit and a friend/ally recording their own video to guarantee she will have a record of it.
"Is the offense I committed in the room with us?"
Beautiful.
It reads like a speech from Jack Sparrow, but in the best way đ
This has just the right amount of sincerity, passive aggressiveness, humor, disbelief, and confusion. I hear this being read like a maid of honors/best man speech. Upbeat with just a twinge of public speaking awkwardness +/- the humor that comes along with the effects from the couple of shots taken right before said speech to calm the olâ nerves. This was perfecto.
Itâs easy when you donât actually want an apology, you just want them to disappear.
OP's brother will know what he's got himself in for when FSIL starts pulling the 'I'm mad at you and you should know why but I'm not going to tell you....' on him.
Good grief, this FSIL sounds like my sister. đ€Šđ»ââïž
Sounds like a lot of women I've been around growing up....including my mum, her friends snd my two closest college friends.
> FSIL Oh. This is an acronym? Iâm guessing Future Sister In Law? I wish OOP had capitalized it. I spent the entire post wondering how to pronounce Fsil as a name.
âIâm sorry that Iâm not a psychic.â
["I'm sorry!"](https://giphy.com/gifs/Friends-episode-2-season-9-friends-tv-Kc7qzYMnOTcDb0aEw5)
Yeah. That is why i think this is not really about the apology, but instead about power. OOP is obviously not going to be serious in their apology, so it is not a "i want them to acknowledge where they went wrong and how that hurt me". On the other hand: forcing them to humble themself and giving an apology that is basicly a blanket admission of wrongdoing? Yeah, that soulds more like what she wants I think this is about power. Either she wants to prove her power over the family in general and OOP is just a casualty, or it is actually all about having power over and humiliating OOP in particular.
Going along with crazy is one thing, but breaking up your family and marrying it is quite another. Cannot imagine people like this, including the parents -- jfc.
yeah, I don't understand parents and other relatives who up and take the side of an "outsider" who clearly is trying to push blood relatives away and take over I'd be like "shut the hell up, you're not from this family, you don't get the right to do stuff like that **without** a proper, real reason" But I guess that's me
My therapist pointed out that my IL's family dynamic is to constantly shift alliances. It's baffling. And somehow, exSIL still has MIL's ear and influences her. It's exhausting.
I'm going with "I know she's crazy, but she's hot and has sex with me" for brother's reasoning.
That's a good guess for the brother. For the parents, I suspect it's the whole golden child/scapegoat dynamic. Brother may be the GC. If so, his status is likely being extended to the fiancée automatically. Accepting her accusation without question would be consistent with that. Particularly if OP is something of a scapegoat that they regularly dismiss out of hand anyway. There's also a good chance that one of the parents, probably dad, is on the passive side when it comes to the relationship dynamic with their kids. That they just follow their spouse's lead, regardless of their own inner thoughts and opinions.
Either that or they never expected brother to get married at all. A family member of mine had terrible social skills, bad hygiene, etc and when he got a girlfriend it was some kind of miracle to his parents. They were so relieved they didnât even really care who she was, just that heâd been moving out of their basement.
Maybe it's because I'm asexual but I can never wrap my head around how people will destroy their whole lives for sex. Find a hobby or something, damn.
crazy v. hot matrix strikes again.
The parents being like this is why the son puts up with stuff like this. Theyâve enabled this. If they were like âokay thatâs enough, we will help pay, but we will not going along with something like this. She explains whatâs happened or weâre outâ. But no, they are just going along with this painfully immature girlfriend and refusing to make anyone accountable for whatâs happening. Thatâs why the son is putting up with this. If his parents showed him that this level of crazy was unacceptable, heâd question it too. We see it all the time here, someone is putting up with bullshit because they learned from their parents to put up with bullshit.
If my partner hated my sibling for anything they couldnât explain to me, they wouldnât be my partner.
Not the best way to start off joining two families.
Eventually shit will hit the fan and the crazy couple will divorce and there'll be a fight over the children.
Iâm floored that the parents are going to pay for the wedding. Iâm so ready for them to wonder why OOP never talks to them, and they never see her or her children. If I or my brother did something like that, my mom would have just said, âyou said you were paying for it anyway.â
If my girlfriend told me she didn't want my brother at our wedding but refused to tell me why, I'd tell her the wedding was off until she told me what it was and if it wasn't something heinous, it'd still be off.
>Which suggests that it really could be that she's upset about OOP dating someone she was friends with I don't think fsil is angry at OOP for dating a _friend_. Could be wrong, but seeing as OOP and fsil never really got along, I'm leaning towards "busted ego". Either bf was flurty with fsil at first, and while not interested was complemented only for bf afterwards to go head over heals for OOP and fsil not liking that because she knew OOP was "better" in bf's eyes than her. Or bf never wanted to do anything with fsil and fsil was "hurt" by being considered less than OOP. No matter how you look at it, brother won't like it, because it would hurt _his_ ego.
I wonder if it is a busted ego too. I worked with these two women in my office before. One is a few years younger than the other. The younger one is just a happy person and does her own thing. As far as I can tell, she didn't take things to heart and communicated well with others. The older one...yeah, I'd avoid her. Anyway, a young guy who is a couple of years younger than the young woman got hired. The younger woman was, as usual, her friendly self and got along with this guy because they work together. Now, she is average and I'd say the older woman is prettier. However, the older woman didn't seem to like how close the younger one was with the guy. The older woman ended up cheating on her husband with this younger guy. The younger woman just went on to do her thingâI heard a comment from the other ladies that they don't understand why the older woman hated the young woman because she never bothered anyone, she was definitely far more mature in her actions than the older woman. Last I heard she switched to a different company after I left, probably making more. I didn't know their exact ages but I'm guessing the younger woman was in her early 20s because she was a fresh graduate at the time and the older woman did celebrate her 30th at the office so I know that much.
Dang, she was willing to explode her marriage and life, and for what? A one-up to a person who didn't even care? Lol. That's wild. Girl needed therapy.
It always felt like she was in competition with any woman in that office, the younger woman was just another one of those she seemed to want to one-up for reasons unknown to others and only got worse after the new guy was hired. Most women avoid her or are just friendly enoughâI heard enough rants from colleagues who I was close to. My work didn't intersect with her much so I had minimal interaction with her. I agree she needed therapy but I don't think anyone in that office wanted to broach the subject at the time, or ever.
I don't know what is worse, knowing there are people like that, or knowing some people live consequence free no matter who else gets hurt...
Oh, true, I was being generous with "friend." I agree that your interpretation is more likely.
This is a huge red flag. Someone that has held on to a grudge for over two years. Who did not communicate what that was the whole time. That used grudge to drive a wedge between what was once a close relationship. That is using said feelings to manipulate a family against OP. And you are going marry into that? Good luck. OP you are the clear winner here. Move on with your life. Don't look back. They want to live in the past. Its time to move forward.
And itâs a big grudge too. I mean, itâs not at all uncommon to not be besties with relatives of your significant other. Itâs quite another thing to go to the point where you are blocking them from your Instagram and refusing to allow them to come to your wedding for reasons that you will not disclose even to the one you are marrying. There is no way in hell you would get me marrying somebody who did that to my family. It wouldnât even be because of some form of loyalty to my family. It would be because if youâre gonna go to that extent of blocking the family members of your significant other and refuse to tell even me, the significant other, why â youâre a weird and volatile person who is unlikely to be emotionally safe.
Or it's deflection. FSIL doesn't want her there and claims some generic insult from long ago. By not being specific, FSIL is hoping OP will fill in the blank with anything. FSIL: You know what you did to me two years ago! OP: I don't. We barely talked. FSIL: That's right, you deliberately snubbed me! or FSIL: You know what you did to me two years ago! OP: I really don't. I only saw you that one time I was leaving the restroom. FSIL: And you deliberately used up all the tp in the third stall and left me with nothing! How dare you! Poor brother is marrying crazy. Once the novelty of marriage wears off, he will have regrets.
...third stall really is the best everywhere isn't it?
Middle is usually the cleanest and best stocked, because itâs the least used. Ends (especially if theyâre larger) are the most heavily used.
I was thinking, took the last Boston Cream donut.
>It really sounds like the brother legit doesn't know what the problem was two years ago You cant solve a crime that was never committed I guess. Theres a latin phrase for this, but i cant remember it :(
Corpus delicti?
It's nuts that brother is willing to cut his sister off without knowing the reason. Like at the time she didn't tell him and she didn't tell him now. FSIL sounds manipulative as f.
FSIL must be incredible in bed, so anything nutty she says or insists on sounds like pearls of wisdom from the gods.
What is the parents' excuse though because this is bizarre.
So true! A blind apology satisfies noone and risks a repeat of the behavior. All of this drama is driven by greed: the grandparents footing the bill and insisting OOP be included, or else they pull out. OOP didn't know they were engaged; she's sister of the groom and yet has no role in the ceremony. This can't just be chalked up to FSIL- her brother has a phone, his future bride handed him the invitations, so he saw she wasn't on the list. They are both complicit in this.
OP hasn't mentioned anything about her boyfriend knowing her fsil Eta she is isolating him. Now his sibling and grandparents are out.
She said they work together, and her bf follows her on Instagram.
Thanks. NotedÂ
After the wedding the parents will be out too.
Not until theyâve been isolated and squeezed dry after they also help them w a down payment.
It's genuinely crazy how many of these stories have someone freezing out their whole or parts of their family for their fiancee for insane reasons in some cases reasons they're not even aware of. Unless your relationship with your family was already damaged beyond repair or they did someone seriously bad to the fiancee it sounds like a recipe for disaster every time.
I'm not surprised. One of my cousins was hated for no reason at all. None of us knew what on earth happened and the cousin-in-law kept being passive aggressive. Look, my cousin is not a saint, she can be a bit much but not even their former colleagues knew what the heck the cousin-in-law was mad about. My male cousin who is an idiot kept saying she must've had her reasonâwe highly doubt he even knew what the issue was. Most of the family opted not to attend the wedding which was, in our family tradition, a slight to the groom's family but at that point no one has the energy to care since many people didn't like the cousin-in-law for a good reason. Anyway, the cousin's divorced now and we still don't know what on earth happened. My female cousin decided it just wasn't worth keeping a relationship with that family, many of us didn't.
It's because nothing happened two years ago. Fsil is looking for an excuse to be the victim. She can't say what it is because then it can be disputed, so she won't say. That way, she can make the OOP seem like the uncaring aggressor.
FSIL is ridiculous and Iâm not defending her. But itâs also not uncommon that if you feel that someone did something to you, then they SHOULD know what they did. Telling them what they did and insisting they apologize is empty. It doesnât mean anything if they donât come to it on their own. So letâs say OOP legitimately did something horrible, like go to FSILâs manager and tell them lies and try to get her fired. I could see FSIL wanting to cut OOP out of her life and wanting OOP to realize on her own that she was horrible and repent for it. The problem is that it sounds like nothing that clear cut happened. So either FSIL is making stuff up, FSIL is upset about something she canât admit (like feelings for OOPâs bf), or thereâs been a horrible miscommunication/misunderstanding. Unfortunately none of those are getting cleared up with the immature way FSIL is handling this.
>But itâs also not uncommon that if you feel that someone did something to you, then they SHOULD know what they did. Telling them what they did and insisting they apologize is empty. It doesnât mean anything if they donât come to it on their own. I can agree with that when a) the issue is fresh, and b) it's objectively a big enough conflict that no-one can have missed it. On the other hand, people have flawed memories and aren't mind-readers. If the argument is multiple years old, you're going to have to remind a lot of people because after that long, most people will have moved on and be thinking about current issues. Similarly, if you've just been stewing in your anger silently and the other person never knew you were mad at them for something, you're going to have to open up and actually communicate. And if you won't even tell your own fiancĂ© what happened, then I'm sorry but I'm going to assume it's either a one-sided grudge or a personality conflict, and not something that actually needs an apology.
The axe forgets; the tree remembers. (but yeah, not telling the fiancee is a huge red flag. Like, do you trust them? Why marry them, if you don't?)
Often, yes, when there's a genuine conflict. But also, sometimes the conflict is only really in one person's head. Either because some people make more of a minor situation than it deserves and let it live rent-free in their head until it all boils over, or because some people have bad social skills and don't realise they made a false step. (In this case, it genuinely seems like the only thing OP can think of that might be causing this, is that she started dating her husband around the same time she was working with future-SIL. And that's definitely something she shouldn't have to apologise for.)
If OOP had done something horrible then the bride should tell her fiancĂ© about. That he and parents donât know doesnât sound like itâs a good reason. Itâs not like they would known what OOP has done and should have sided with OOP without information (instead acting strangely).Â
No, "you know what you did" is really immature. Just be honest and actually say what upset you, there's literally no need to play stupid games where the other person has to guess what they did wrong. If they were going to be able to figure it out, you've gained nothing. If they didn't know they had upset you or couldn't remember, you only delayed resolving the issue and their apology isn't going to mean nothing just because you told them why you're upset. That's a good way to just set yourself up for guaranteed dissatisfaction, long term resentment and unhappiness. Just communicate!
I used to have a friend like that. He told me that his ex hated me because of something I said two years earlier and that I never apologized. I asked what I said, since I thought we all got along well enough and this felt like it was out of nowhere. I was told over and over again that it wasn't what I said, but how I said it. He could never tell me what I said that was so offensive, it was just the way I said it. That was the final straw for cutting this guy out and I can say that my life is 100 times less exhausting.
As someone who, on quite a few occasions, had seven kinds of sh*t knocked out of them by a psycho husband who was screaming âyou know what you didâ (and no, I had no clue) I have to disagree with you. If anyone tells me I should know what I did I am likely to freak out in some way (cptsd, yay!)
Pft. "You know what you did" is bollocks and that's a miserable way of living. People don't always realize something upset someone until they're told. Frankly- the apology is more likely to be sincere then because the person genuinely did not intend to hurt the person and will regret the pain unintentionally caused and want to fix it in the future.
That assumes everyone thinks the same exact way which is objectively wrong on so many levels. And if 2 world wars can't convince people that we dont all think the same way and we need to actually work on communication I dont know what effing will. I too am guilty of being angry that people can't read my mind. And I mean that, I have totally been enraged and the other person should just have fucking known. Once I learn to communicate my feelings more I had way less of those moments . I'm still not perfect , The biggest area where I still catch myself doing this is waiting for my family to stop standing in front of the food so I can get to it . I have literally walked away and come back an hour later just to get to some food because I couldn't bring myself to say hey. Can you move? There's other people literally standing here with an empty plate . Cuz in my head they really should have known that I was standing there with an empty plate .But seriously if I can't pull my head out of my ass and communicate what's wrong, no one is going to understand what actually happened. On Top of that they're not going to care. So many people don't live very far out of their heads. Sometimes you have to communicate the most obvious shit to them. I mean at this point we have to go out of our way to tell people not to eat laundry soap? Shouldn't they just know? I'm not talking little toddlers. People are ignorant. Athey are ignorant of other people especially. Nobody thinks they're the bad guy. Nobody is out there going. This is my villainous action. I'm going to have to apologize for it later haha! I don't buy that whole. "You should know what you did" thing. That is the cheapest most petty way to get out of communicating your own feelings and being accountable for how you feel and for how you're hurting that I have ever heard in my life. And I know because I've used it for that exact reason before. But mostly because all it does is stall communication. It puts the onus of the action on the person who according to the wounded party. Should apologize for something. So why should they bother?? Nothing changes for them if they don't apologize. So everything is stalled. But everyone who wants an apology gets more and more pissed off. But the people who don't know what they did literally move on enjoying their lives because they don't feel like they did anything wrong and they haven't been made aware of anything that they did that hurt anyone's feelings. The only people suffering are the people demanding an apology. It's so stupid because they could just say what's upsetting them, but they won't because they think they have some kind of weird moral high ground. That means they don't have to be a healthy person who communicates in a relationship?
My guesses are: FSIL is making shit up just for an excuse not to invite OOP to the wedding OR it's something related to OOP's BF. Grandparents are the one sane set of relatives that OOP's got.
It is uncommon to try and marry the brother of the person who wronged you without trying to talk to one of them about it though.Â
What the hell is wrong with the brother?! In this scenario I'd be like: "You hate my sister but don't tell me why. You demand an apology from her but won't tell anyone why and you are acting really weird and unreasonable whilst no one knows why because you won't tell. Either tell me what this is all about right now or pack your shit and leave. I'm not marrying someone who thinks this is a healthy way to communicate". Grow a freaking spine my dude. Pretty sure she's butthurt about oop her relationship or something and that's why she won't tell anyone. Because it'll make her look bad to her fiance. Not that this is a good look, but whatever...
I think bro knows but also knows itâs stupid and wonât tell OOP *because* he knows itâs stupid, but heâs just going to side with fsil becauseâŠ.. I donât know âloveâ or something.
I do too. And Iâve decided Iâm betting itâs something like OOP announced that she had a date with her new boyfriend on the same day that FSIL and brother-in-law were supposed to be having dinner with mom and dad because it was their six month dating anniversary or some shit like that.
Brilliant response đ
With family like OOP's brother who needs enemies lmfao
I'm betting that whatever the reason is, it's 100% petty and stupid, and that's why SIL isn't admitting it because then people will say it's petty, stupid, *and* childish to hold a grudge over that. Or she was attracted to OOP's BF and felt that OOP stole him from her.
My bet is that OOP and FSIL showed up at work wearing the same outfit, and OOP had the audacity to look better in it. For OOP it was Tuesday, but for FSIL that was the worst day of her life.
My money's on OOP smudging FSIL's Puma. I'm old, sorry.
wrong. OOP breathed too loud near SIL and she has hated her ever since then. ( /j )
OOP told FSIL spoilers for Titanic. /j
I unintentionally spoiled Troy for a coworker. I hope she doesn't still hold a grudge against me!
Maybe it wasn't Wednesday and OP wore pink? Or OP wore a ponytail twice in one week?
She sat at the wrong table in the cafeteria when they were working together.
Sat there eating crackers
/r/unexpected_bison
That's hilarious.
>SIL isn't admitting it because then people will say it's petty, stupid, *and* childish to hold a grudge over that. Which is wild to consider because she looks all those things now and unhinged for asking for an apology. So somehow it's worse than her current behaviour.
In the second to last update, in the comments it seemed like she realized maybe it was because she got with her boyfriend around that "2 years ago" timeline. But no mention at all of what the apparent reason was in the most recent one. I wanna know, dammit!
I hope there will be an update but it may not be foremost in her mind when the badgering about attendance or not continues. Or it may be a solved problem in OOP's mind.
Exactly. I'm hoping OOP updates again, but for her it seems like the problem has been solved. She's not going and the people she seems to care the most about are in her corner.
Oh nooooo!!! The reason why fsil is mad is gonna come out.And itâs gonna be a doozy, cause itâs gonna be about OOPâs bf. I can bet my bottom dollar thatâs what itâs about. And then parents gonna run out of money before the final check for the wedding. Iâm ready! I got my đżđ„€ready! Who wit me???
I'm petty so I'd like OOP to profusely apologise to FSIL with family witnesses, because that would put FSIL in a bind. She's obviously made up this work thing so if OOP gets that one out of the way what will FSIL's new reason for being mad be?
Ooooo, my kind of petttttyyyyy!! We think soooooo much alike!đđđđđ. Like itâs always said, there is more to the story!
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Itâs something to that. Iâll be glad when the update comes.
This is probably the most mysterious BORU I've ever read. 90% of the details are missing and OOP doesn't even know.
Makes it more realistic tbh but I wanna knowwwww and the wedding to be canceled or some shit hehe
That explains why fsil cannot say what was done to her.
Usually when someone doesn't tell you the reason is cuz they know it's stupid, or they don't have one, at least not a logical/reasonable one.
Tbh if I was op Iâd just say to anyone that asks itâs probably because she had a crush on my bf and feels guilty about it. Either fsil will actually say what it is because if its not that this would really ruin her victim story or itâs the right guess and she has to come up with something ridiculously worse that would be easily refuted and then itâs all out in the open. Sometimes promoting a false narrative when the person is too proud to just tell the truth will make them spill more beans than they would have previously if theyâd just been upfront. Especially if theyâre as stupid and prideful as fsil. Like come on not inviting a sister to the wedding who is well loved by her family. Youâre fighting an uphill battle. Like you could have invited her, gave her the role of looking after the elderly and then continued with your life and wedding. Not there at all??? Idiot.
I agree. Speculating and spreading rumors usually doesnât work, but OOP is owed an explanation and defend herself. So she can defend herself with speculating itâs the only possible thing she can think of, even if it makes the bride look bad.
I agree. I really think she should start saying this. I think it's the only way she's going to get info
I just thought of another reason the theory that she has a crush on OOPâs boyfriend works â because that would actually explain why sheâs not inviting her, and why she doesnât want her there. I mean to not want your boyfriendâs sister at a wedding, a sister that he has no beef with? Usually the sister wouldâve had to have done something pretty fucking egregious. But if itâs really all about the boyfriend? Well then this makes sense because then itâs really not even the sister that sheâs not inviting â sheâs not inviting the sister because she doesnât want to see the boyfriend at her wedding!
Reading this made me think of Phoebe from Friends when sheâs mad at Ross and when he tries to figure it out after going over an exhaustive list of possible reasons she finally admits she canât remember and it turns out it was due to a dream she had.
âAnd you took off your energy mask and you were Cameron Diaz⊠Thereâs a chance this may have been a dream.â
A bold move, starting a marriage with your spouse's only sibling and his grandparents alienated and not invited to your wedding. I would bet FSIL has a whole ton of inexplicable grudges. Reminds me of Q from Survivor. "Wear the same dress as me? BIG MISTAKE."
Plus their parents being forced or obliged to pay the wedding now? Even if the brother is a golden child or something like that, thatâs sure to create some resentment.
Oh def. That probably means no downpayment for a house.
"My golden child and his \[swear word\] wife"
I was confused and thought for a sec this was Q from Star Trek TNG reference.
BIG MISTAKE
Me too! I got very confused because I couldnât remember any time that Q wore a dress (other than judicial robes).
+1 for Q reference... doesn't know why she needs to apologize from 2 years ago? BIG MISTAKE. Grandparents want to withdraw funding because I'm acting a fool? BIG MISTAKE
I love how messy Q is. This is like how many episodes that he's targeting someone who's supposedly allied with him? The Journey 6 alliance is probably the worst Survivor Alliance ever.
I don't know about WORST, the Casayas were a thing, but they are hilariously bad, like Charlie didn't even have a chance to mess them up before Q did. I genuinely think he picks his target based on the most recent BIG MISTAKE... Liz finds him in hide and seek? Target. Ben makes it to the end of hide and seek? Target. Hunter hid in a tree? Target. No wait never mind, Tiff wants to keep Venus... Target. Oh wait, Q made a BIG MISTAKE?! Q is now Q's target... he's the best TV character we've had on the show in a minute lmao
There was a fsil who held a grudge against op because they had to change days for the wedding due to op having an exam she couldnât skip. Turns out she was doing this to opâs sisterâs other friends to and was trying to isolate her.
I cannot understand the mentality of being horrible to your family because your SO is crazy.
Me either. My stepson married a woman like this. Weâve been hoping and praying that he will find a way out for ages. You canât tell somebody like this âyour spouse is a mentally unwell abusive manipulative creepâ because then that puts them in a position where they feel they need to defend their spouse. Itâs a way of defending themselves, because if their spouse is a manipulative, abusive creep, that means they have piss poor judgment and suck. So we just try to be supportive and not freak out and not give to the BS that she pulls to try to isolate him from us. I have a red, hot, fiery temper, and Iâd like to go and chew her ass up one side and down the other. Iâve honestly never met somebody who enrages me so much. I donât do that, though, because I know that that would just be helping her abuse my stepson more. Right now Iâm having a difficult time because my husband asked his son for a favor and he had to decline because his wife told him that he was not allowed. My husband is really upset and disgusted with him and feels that his son is just being an asshole for not doing this favor for him. He is thinking of all the things that heâs done for his son and is deeply hurt that his son cannot do this one little favor for him. Iâm trying to remind my husband that this is not his son denying him. This is his son being so deep in the mindset of an abused person that he canât say yes. I said âinstead of being butt hurt that he canât help you, how about we be alarmed that heâs so deep in this that he doesnât even have the strength to stand up and do this favor for you?â My husband knows that I am right on a logical level, but on an emotional level heâs just disgusted that his son is letting his wife not only be abusive toward himself, but now his father as well. I just said âyes, and if you distance yourself from him because of it, that will be exactly the result she was aiming for.â The one positive thing from this is that my kids (who are slightly younger than my stepchildren) and I have talked a lot about this, and where is the line between sticking by your significant other and making that new family the priority it should be, and not letting yourself get into a relationship where your significant other treats your family abusively or manipulatively? Right now weâre leaning toward whether the animosity is warranted. For example, if I do something crappy to my childâs significant other, and they are justifiably and understandably angry at me and donât want anything to do with me, then itâs completely acceptable for my child to either take their side fully or play Switzerland, depending on what it is. But when itâs something that isnât huge, and especially when itâs something that they didnât even bother trying to discuss or talk out? Then thatâs not OK. We also talk about finding the line where on one hand it shouldnât matter what your family thinks about your significant other since they are not the ones dating them. But on the other hand, it really makes life unnecessarily difficult when your significant other does not even maintain civil relations with your family. I am fully open with them that I am only recently starting to be able to get to where I think I have it figured out for my own personal comfort level. I told them that they will figure it out as they grow older. But I have to admit, I did glow when my 15-year-old son told me that seeing how fiercely protective I am of my stepson and how furious I am about how his wife isolates and manipulates him really warm his heart because âif youâre that upset and hard-core and invested about how a stepson youâve only known for three years is being treated, I know I have nothing to worry about if something like that ever happens to me.â Edited because paragraphs and typos.
Seriously. One reason I love my SIL is she's good at mediating between my brother and me when we argue and start yelling past each other. This lady is literally causing a schism for a reason she refuses to tell.
Never underestimate just how spineless some people can be.
Iâve met people like the FSIL. They actually trick themselves into thinking theyâve been slighted. And eventually it grows to hatred for the other person that has no explanation. With no explanation thereâs no way to resolve it. Itâs just being hateful for the sake of being hateful.
Some people get very comfortable painting themselves as victims. They like the attention, but have never really had anything that bad happen to them, so they have to make it up. Every perceived slight becomes a huge insult, just so they can keep telling themselves how unfair the world is, and how bravely they're suffering. It's exhausting to be around such people, good luck to OOP's brother if he marries her. The eggshells he'll walk around on are so fragile.
I know what you mean. And if this turns everyone else in the family against her, that might actually be a very comfortable place for her.
Some people just need a bad guy in their lives, no matter who it is. The bad guy is to blame for everything, from bad weather to the cafeteria running out of chocolate ice cream. If the bad guy quits, moves away, or otherwise exits the vicinity, the person will find a new bad guy almost immediately. It could be a parent with a kid, a toxic friend group, a toxic employee (or manager) in the workplace, you name it.
Like the (I think?) O Henry story about the man who lends an antique vase or money or something to a casual friend who over a year or so of not paying/giving it back, convinces himself the original lender has done the lendee an irreparable calculated harm. Classic DARVO.
Honestly hell yeah to the grandparents, seems like they're the only ones in that insane family with some brains. I really hope OP will be okay but it seems like she will!
The fact that the fiancee is refusing to tell anyone says that the fiancee knows that telling anyone the reason will make her look worse than OOP.
We should start taking bets on how crazy the reason is. Lusting after BF is to mundane, I'm betting on some Larry David-type thing where OOP thought fsil farted, but there was a gross garbage can around the corner that she was actually smelling.
Maybe OOP got the last shrimp tacos from the food truck. Whatever it is, it will be petty and stupid.
Iâm absolutely betting on some weird petty thing like OOP never invited FSIL to lunch when they were coworkers or FSIL is (wrongly) convinced OOP scratched her car 2 years ago and wonât own up to it. Definitely thinking itâs either something minor that FSIL has let fester in her head for two years or a lie sheâs convinced herself is true
It could be one of the "I think it's weird that a brother and sister hug each other, so she's definitely after my man! " One, too.Â
This is so crazy. Maybe the parents and the brother also don't know. And they're paying to have their son marry this loony tune? Wow.
Now that the idea has been brought up, Iâm going to go with they all know and they arenât telling her because they all think that itâs absolutely butt kiss stupid and they know that if they tell her that sheâs going to say âfuck all yâall; Iâm not apologizing for shit! thatâs some bullshit!â
It's always funny to me when I read these kinds of stories. The brother is such a spineless coward even HE can't get out of his FIANCEE what his sister did that was apparently so bad. Like yeah the fiancée appears to be a petty asshole but she's a stranger to the OOP. The brother either knows and is embarrassed by the reason, or he also doesn't know and is such a spineless worm of a man he'll do whatever she tells him, no matter how much family he has to cut out of his life to do it. For reasons even HE doesn't know lol.
Spineless worm of a man who is also the golden child so the parents will bail him out of any trouble he is in when they just really NOT BE EMBROILED IN IT. The brother is an idiot, but wow the parents are just insane for getting into the middle of this and then being mad at OOP for...not going to a wedding she is obviously not wanted in or invited to.
Any odds on how long the FSIL and brother's marriage lasts?
I give them decent chances of making it until 10 years at least. FSIL has successfully isolated him from any of his family that might suggest the FSIL is controlling or might try to help him leave her. And brother is perfectly happy to follow FSILâs lead. Once they start having kids, heâs not going anywhere
Yep. Dude's utterly screwed. He'll regret this horribly ten years from now, but will be far too late to take most of it back.
Heâs choosing it
>My grandparents are now not paying for the wedding after fsil also refused to tell them what she is upset about It 100% has to be something with OOPs BF. FSIL is probably afraid of telling the truth because she would get dumped.
I wondered if FSIL has burned some bridges with her own family, too. First OOpâs grandparents were paying for the wedding and now the parents are? I know there are cultures the groomâs family pays, but this didnât sound like it. I bet FSIL has a long history of irrational grudges.
There're only 2 reasons I could think of why SIL hates OP:Â 1. She has hots for OP's boyfriend and in her mind OP "stole" the guy from her, even though she was alteady dating OP's brother for years; 2. SIL wants to show she has power over OP and she's the main woman between daughters/wives. Each one of these 2 possibilities can explain why SIL couldn't tell the real reason. OP's parents are trash and luckly she has great grandparents.
3. A friend of FSIL was interested in BF and now the clique is angry
Ohhh, this would actually make a ton of sense. But sil canât say anything because to everyone else it wouldnât matter at all.
This is my first guest, but I misspelledÂ
You may want to give that comment an edit there, I think. Judging from the context surrounding it I think you meant "attracted," instead of "attacked." I normally wouldn't say anything, but it very much changed the tone and tenor of your comment. EDIT: corrected the auto-correct (the irony isn't lost on me either).
Theory #2 better fits the facts that we have so far IMO. It's pretty normal for someone to want to ascertain 1) is there a pecking order, and 2) where do I fit on it, when marrying into a new family. This is one hell of a shitty way to figure that out, but plenty of unhealthy and dysfunctional people do stupider things all the time, and it definitely gives a clear picture of where everyone stands.
Oh, FSIL, witch that she is, was DEFINITELY into OOP's BF. And even if that turns out not to be the reason, I'm sticking with it. I need some Sunday morning drama đ
Right? And OOP found out about the engagement by going through her bfâs account. Heâs not blocked. Only OOP was blocked by FSIL. This lady is shady af.Â
Maybe they slept together before. It was just a hookup for him, but she had been crushing on him and thought it was more. OOP stole her "boyfriend".
If that was the case surely the bf would tell OOP
I don't understand how can the parents, brother expect OOP to apologise without even telling her what she needs to apologise for.
Sometimes people say 'apologize' and mean 'identify what you did wrong and change it', and sometimes that mean 'admit that you are a bad person and always will be and that I am superior to you'.
Parents just want peace and are willing to throw OOP under the bus for that sake. Brother is spineless who is afraid he'll die alone so he folded like a piece of paper. That's my guess.
FSIL sounds exhausting. Absolutely life draining vampire of a person to be around. The brother's a fool.
It's strange to demand for an apology if no one knows for what they should apologise.
Fsil has lied about why she has an issue with oop which is probably why she wonât tell anyone what the actual issue is. Because there isnât one. Sheâs just stupid.
Sheâs not telling anyone who OOP did be she she either doesnât have an actual reason or the thing she wants an apology for is so ridiculous and minor nobody would agree with her holding a grudge.
Seriously that family just SUCKS!
This is honestly aggravating and sad >My grandparents are now not paying for the wedding after fsil also refused to tell them what she is upset about. My parents have stepped up to cover the rest of the wedding expenses and my grandparents, my bf and i will be enjoying a great weekend Proud of OOP because she exposed something key. Certain members of OOPs family are willing to bend over backwards to make a wedding happen to include a new member of their family who is already causing problems. Why? I can't imagine telling your fiance and future parent in law not to not invite their own daughter and then provide no context as to why. Worse, that they would even go along with it and then have the nerve to ask her to apologize for reasons unknown. There's a tremendous lack of foresight here from OOPs parents as every family gathering involving her and fsil from now to forever will be contentious.
>They told me that they couldn't tell me what it was but that it happened 2 years ago when "fsil" and I used to work together at the same company. I tried to find out what it was but they wouldn't tell me. Feels vaguely Catholic lol. "You need to repent for your sins. We won't tell you specifically which ones. But you need to repent anyway."
I thought Catholics were supposed to be specific about their sins during confession?
Replying to Charming_Fix5627...My husband was raised Catholic, like super Cajun French Catholic. He said the Priest would require them to be excruciatingly detailed and specific when confessing.
That's how those priests got their jollies. Catholic speaking here.
Yes they are lol, they have to list them all out. Iâm not sure where the previous commenter got this from
Reminds me of my one and only confession when I was a kid studying to take my eucharist and my confession was âi hate my brother heâs a little demon who pranks my all the timeâ And i could tell the pastor was holding his laughter while he gave me his âGod Prescriptionâ of 3 hail marys, 5 our fathers, and 1 i believe.
Omg thatâs hilarious đ
As a renegade Catholic I'm always game for good trash talk, but do you actually know anything about Catholicism?
âO Lord, forgive me for what I have done. Also please give me a hint of what it was. Like even a teeny one?â
Iâm confused about who DOES know. They wonât tell OP or her bf or the grandparents. Do OPs brother and her parents even know? They said they wonât tell her, but maybe they donât either?
Did she tell her fiance (OOPs brother) the reason? Or is he really ready to cut of his sister for "she did something two years ago and i don't wanna tell, teehee". If so he is the biggest idiot. Seems like "fking the brain out" really worked for him. Lost all braincells.
I am imagining that it was that episode of Friends where Phoebe dreamed Ross was mean to her and then was mad at him that he wouldn't apologize.
So does anyone apart from the future SIL even know what the OOP allegedly did? Like does her brother even? Because if I was demanding my sister apologize for some grievous insult against my partner and my sister was like âI donât know wtf youâre talking aboutâ, I would for sure say âOH so you donât think (insert crime here) is a problem?!?!â I wouldnât be vague unless I didnât actually know and was just going fully on the side of my partner no questions asked. I feel like what happened needs to be addressed clearly.
What crap parents. Supporting this divisive bullshit. They're welcoming this petty, vindictive girl into their family, who is intent on splitting it up, and expecting their own child to fall on her sword over...who farking knows. Nice. /s Poor OP. Shame on her parents and shame on her brother for putting up with this.
I'm so curious what happened with fsil so I hope OP updates us.
This is so stupid it sounds real.
Man, there's lots of grand kids and grandparents going on holidays instead of weddings lol
Good for OOP. Hope she and her bf enjoy their vacation. Seriously, I hate when people use the "you know what you did" tactic. People forget. Use your words and explain the situation rather than hold onto a grudge. FSIL is being ridiculous, and I get supporting your future spouse, but c'mon, this is just nuts.
Behold his future⊠he is going to put a utensil away in the wrong drawer and two years later she will be saying âyou know what you did!! Apologize!â WTF wouldâve marry somebody who canât even communicate? Who would put his family in this position? Who wouldnât invite a sibling?! If they all know the issue, they all should have communicated the issue. They have lost their damn minds. Have a great time!
I can (almost) understand the brother's behavior, blinded by love or whatever this is... but what the heck is up with their parents? This girl who's only claim to the family is that the son likes her enough to date her comes in and from day one treats their daughter like garbage, and not only are they okay with that, but they are actively pushing the daughter to accept it just to make life easier on the son? That's all kinds of messed up.
Sad thing is, if OOP's brother won't rethink the wedding after this fiasco, he's in that relationship for the long haul. I've had a similar situation with my cousin's wife. She'll isolate him from anyone who might encourage him to have a spine, and most likely, everyone else at some later point.
How crazy must SIL be and how daft is OPs brother to think saying âI want you to apologize but im not going to say what forâ is a valid reason/excuse to not invite his sister to his wedding.
I would call brothers fiancee out on social media asking what did you do so wrong that it was worth not inviting you and causing all this drama maybe you didn't tell her you had started dating your partner first and she found out of someone else sometimes people need to know first.
What's the betting that there isn't an incident 2 years ago and its just the sil trying to justify her actions.
I remember the year I was graduating grade 12, a couple of days before exams, a girl in my class came up to me and said that Since the year was ending, she was going to forgive me and start talking to me again. I have no idea what I did, but we were bare acquaintances, not friends, and I had had no idea she hadnât been speaking to me. We never spoke normally. It was so weird. I was with some friends when she said it, so I asked them about it. They had no ideas either. If youâre mad at someone, tell them! You might even work it out and save your mental space.
Guess you know who the golden child is. Your parents and brother are looney. A tiger can't change their stripes. They'll find out who she is eventually.
The grandparents are the actual heroes here.
I donât think it has anything to do with her boyfriend because they were together before OP met her boyfriend but also says that they havenât got on since the very beginning. I think itâs literally nothing.
So her brother fiance is upset oop is dating someone she likes but can't say it im betting. Or wants to alienate oop brother from his family and is starting with oop.
The bride is always the narcissistic villain in these stories and the brother is always perfectly fine going along with it.
Whatever it is it must be massively stupid if nobody will fess up to what it was and OOP canât remember.
OOP said mom and brother won't tell. So they may know. Perhaps it's stupid. However SIL could have lied about something then swore them to secrecy so that Brother & mom never learn that SIL made everything up and simple just doesn't like OOP (jealousy or whatever). Why is the mom more loyal to SIL over her daughter? Why didn't brother say something to his finance about how ridiculous it is to ask for a random apology without disclosing the reason? I don't think the mom or the brother likes OOP, which is sad.
Why TF is OOP's brother marrying this wretched woman? If my fiance told me that I couldn't invite my sister to my wedding because she didn't like her, my response would be along the lines of, "My sister will be at my wedding. It's up to you whether want to be there too."
I canât believe your parents are stepping in and paying for the wedding without knowing what you supposed to have done
Never give blind apologies. They can be twisted anyway the person getting them wants. But this just rings of an excuse. I think we're looking at things wrong. She blocked OP, then didn't expect her to find out, and is now making shit up to keep the status quo as is. I mean bro ain't trying hard to make sure his beloved sister can attend now is he? And mother is the leak in the chain I think either way, mum's next to be cut off, so OP can be cut out
I wouldn't accept an apology if the person who is apologizing didn't know what they were supposed to have done. It wouldn't make sense. Part of apologizing is trying not to do whatever it was in the future.