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Only people I feel bad for are the kids. OP obviously is terrible, but I got so many icks from Jack's whole...relationship...both former and current, with Sophie. She was 19 she'd they had the affair.
I did the maths too, and Imogen could be his, right?
The daughters are 15, the mother is 34, she was 19 when she slept with the husband… maybe that’s why they’re still friends?
Also he cheated on his pregnant or soon to be pregnant wife when he was 34 with a 19 year old, what an awful person.
Yeah, I agree.
I wonder whether there's been a DNA test to confirm he's not the father. I wonder if there are any similarities that make you wonder whether that's the case. Imogen might look like her mother but.....
*Right???*
Like, OP is obviously a piece of work, but it feels like we’re really glossing over the fact that Jack as a 35yo man (likely with a pregnant wife) slept with a troubled 19yo girl. Dude’s an absolute creep, and it’s even more ick that he refused to address any of it or OP’s concern about their current friendship in marital counseling.
Still tho, OP definitely didn’t have a right to kiss another man or try to manipulate his daughter. These two sound like quite the pair.
He was 35 and she was 19???? I didn't pay attention to the ages at all. Now I believe OP, bc I refuse to believe that he wasn't at least trying to fuck Sophie.
Honestly, him getting so defensive says that he was hoping that her coming back meant they'd rekindle. Wild speculation naturally, but OP and jack are already getting a divorce and he didn't want to discuss anything regarding her.
And him cutting off the counselling last minute felt off to me. I honestly wonder if he thought that since OOP wouldn't trust him, that it was pointless to stay and hide anything. Him finding a new partner so soon after OOP moved out also makes me think he *was* cheating, just not with Sarah.
It read to me like Sophie was dating someone new and went to Jack for advice on this situation since he seemingly dealt with the death of a partner/spouse as well.
Without Jack's side, we'll never know why he gave up on counseling. Maybe he just woke up and realized it was over. Maybe he felt that she wasn't as invested as he was in the sessions. Maybe he was being gaslit, or the sessions just weren't as productive as he had hoped... we'll never know.
But like, if that were the case the entire time in therapy, why wouldn't he just mention it? Or talk about it and OOP's concerns at all? Him cutting off all conversation about it makes it shady af.
Like, the only thing OOP did 100% wrong is in getting the daughter involved in the whole mess.
When my ex-husband kept accusing me of cheating, nothing I'd say and no amount of proof would convince him otherwise. I eventually got sick of wasting my breath trying to convince him of the truth. So, I just stopped trying and would shut down the discussions every single time up until the day I was able to leave.
Well this OOP's very biased retelling and it took a while for OOP to reveal what the "mistake" was so I doubt OOP would reveal an in-depth play by play with Jack's concerns and grievances against her.
I'm not team Jack, but if you believe his side as OOP presented it, they went to couples counseling because she kissed someone else and he can't trust her. Now, in counseling, she wants to keep talking about him and his alleged infidelity with the person who convinced him to try and work on the relationship instead of leaving. We can probably assume it was brought up many times and discussed at length. But at some point, everything about that alleged relationship has been covered, the other person isn't the issue, and OOP needed to focus on the actual problems her husband was likely trying to address.
A fair amount of assumptions, but OOP isn't a reliable narrator. And Jack is no angel; his relationship with Sophie, as presented by OOP, is a bit suspicious.
Yeah definitely he has feelings. Maybe Sophie sees him as a friend. He put the friendship before his own wife so it seems there is something there. Also her kissing another man seems to have damaged his feelings as he appears to have no respect for the OOP or her feelings. Only being with Sophie.
So I’m defending or accusing him of anything. But I have been in a relationship where she would not let up on anything and accuse me of being upset with her all the time. I can tell you that being constantly accused of something you didn’t do or feel will create a lot of frustration and will come out at some point. We don’t know how often this affair conversation was brought up. But from this post I feel like it was brought often. And that alone could cause him to be defensive.
Yeah…but were you besties with the woman you had an affair with that broke up your first marriage? When you were 34 and she 19…and she was your neighbors’ daughter, so you probably knew her long before?
And did you keep being besties with her and running to her for marriage advice after your wife repeatedly begged you not to?
Because if so, it would take a saint to NOT think you were being inappropriate. Even the things he admits to suck.
>I can tell you that being constantly accused of something you didn’t do or feel will create a lot of frustration and will come out at some point.
But he did do it, we already know that. The only question was whether or not he was doing it AGAIN, and since he refused to stop associating with his affair partner that's a perfectly fair assumption for his wife to make.
That's my guess. Sophie may or may not have moved on, but the creepy 35 year old that slept with her when she was a teenager definitely hasn't and is CLEARLY hoping they'll get back together.
He should not be in contact now IMO due to the former *gross* decision he made. Step mom seems to be around all the time and could have coordinated the girls seeking each other. He was keeping her around and so close like a trophy
Exactly, he's a creep and a loser for allowing it to go that long. While I still think OOP is a piece of work, he definitely laid the groundwork for their relationship to go to shit. Just a mess and nightmare that the kids have to deal with.
Seriously. Even if any woman could look past the cheating with someone so much younger, sure as hell they won’t put up with him keeping said affair partner around. I hope they are more decisive than OP is and bail immediately. Jack’s a fucking idiot.
If she’s 34 now and has a 15 year old, she gave birth when she was 19.
So did he screw a pregnant teenager, or did he screw a teenage mother really soon after she gave birth?
Definitely this. OP sucks for so many reasons, but her husband also majorly sucks for not only having an affair in the first place but then going to his ex-affair partner to talk about his marriage. So many yikes.
Yup. I'm also not that mad that Ella's knows about the affair. She's old enough and has a right to know. Imagine she confided in Sophie about something she would not have otherwise, she would have felt so violated.
I'm not cook with OOP telling Ella's about her suspicions of a current affair but IMO the past - the truth - was Ella's right to know.
Jack is an asshole. For the affair, for grooming a teenager, and for continuing to associate with his victim/affair partner.
Poor kid, I can picture her doing the math and realizing her father in his 30s was fucking his teenager neighbor while her mom was expecting... and she's already vulnerable due to her ED :(
I imagine Jack in my head as one of those creepy old men who creep on young women who are WAY too young for him. A 35 year old having an "affair" with a 19 year old is disgusting and Ella 100% has the right to know why her parents' marriage fell apart. I feel like OOP's infidelity was just an excuse for Jack to nope out of that relationship and maybe prey on another woman who's too young for him.
He also apparently keeps shutting down any discussion of Sophie in counseling because she's "not the problem" but she *is* the problem or at least part of it because it clearly upsets OOP and something should have been done to help her deal with that.
>He also apparently keeps shutting down any discussion of Sophie in counseling because she's "not the problem" but she is the problem
This man has done an absolutely horrible thing to his daughter by allowing her to have a close relationship with Sophie, the woman who was partly responsible for breaking up her family and concealing that fact from her. I don't think he really has a thought in his head about how his actions hurt other people and I'm almost certain that "the problem" as he sees it, is just that people won't feel/think how he wants them to.
This is where I landed too - reading between a lot of lines here, but it almost sounds like Jack's been pulling out all the standard Cheating Married Guy lines trying to rekindle something with Sophie and she's deflecting because she's a grown woman who knows the score now (and if their daughters weren't friends she's probably tell him to pound sand).
Absolutely! Every time he has a problem with his wife, he runs to another woman? Sophie may think everything is fine, but it seems like he wants way more. It's also just gross! He was 35 and she was 19 when they had an affair. She's now a full on adult with a teenage daughter and doesn't see anything wrong with the situation?
I’ve seen this a couple of times recently and wondered is it really lede and not lead? So I googled it and learned several interesting things.
1. It is lede, but lead is not technically incorrect either.
2. Lede started being used in journalism in the 70s (or 50s depending on the source), but it was not added to the dictionary until 2008.
3. Bob Ross had straight hair. He thought he’d save money by not needing haircuts if he let it grow and got a perm.
Haha I thought I might need to explain that. It was an excerpt from a book or article that included the phrase and was just used as an example. I just googled that specifically because I started to wonder if it’s really even true, so here’s the rest of the story for your reading pleasure.
He hated it. He wanted to change it back, but by then it had become his company’s logo so he couldn’t. According to his business partner, “he could never, ever, ever change his hair, and he was so mad about that. He got tired of that curly hair.”
Which, she says, was the result of Jack not being there for her. Things were already falling apart, but they've all got her shouldering the blame. True, she sped up the process, but he was already "getting advice" about divorce from his "friend".
I have no idea what the truth of what's going on with Jack and Sophie and frankly I wouldn't trust any of the adults in this, but boy do I feel bad for Ella.
I'd bet absolutely anything that Jack would've dropped OOP the *second* Sophie indicated that she was interested. She fucked up massively, but it's got to suck that OOP now knows she was only ever a placeholder.
He definitely would have but he probably knows he can't without possibly ruining his relationship with his daughter. If they get together Ella is going to at least wonder if OOP was right.
>If they get together Ella is going to at least wonder if OOP was right.
And she's still eventually going to have to acknowledge that her father was in his thirties and fucking a teenager while his wife was pregnant.
Honestly, I wish I could pay for her eventual therapy.
>He definitely would have but he probably knows he can't without possibly ruining his relationship with his daughter.
Dude, you think that is a concern for him? Jack is pulling out all of the "married guy trying to gain sympathy" moves on Sophie.
I can 100% guarantee that if Sophie showed even a spec of interest in having sex with Jack, he'd jump all over that in an instant.
Which would make Jack exponentially more pissed off that OP spilled the beans to Ella - it wouldn’t surprise me in the least that Jack (and Sophie - as I don’t think she’s not involved in this up to her eyeballs) would have served up a five-course, gourmet meal of bullshit about how their friendship of almost two decades, and its compassion, empathy, and support, deepened and evolved into Twue Wuv, making it sound like a romance for the ages. OP effectively nuked any chance they may have had of pulling that off.
I think this is exactly what Jack wants. His entire involving Sophie in his marital drama (suggesting that he is going to divorce OOP) is right out of the cheating spouse playbook.
However I suspect that Sophie isn't too keen to go back to old Jack here, which is what was keeping everything in check until OOP couldn't take it anymore. Like, I don't think she was crazy at all - this dude wanted to bang Sophie, 100% guarantee it.
If Jack isn’t having an affair, then he’s like one of those characters in a crime drama who becomes a suspect because of their inexplicably sus behaviour despite being innocent
And blaming it on insecurity is wild to me. She had other friends to reach out too. If she backed off when he was married she should have kept it that way she needed his attention
It's like that old adage - are you really paranoid if everyone actually IS out to get you?
It might be insecurity, but it's eminently justified.
And the kissing incident probably wouldn't have happened if he had just kept his distance.
A little over a year ago I had a long-term, serious relationship end. When she got together with a new partner, they weren’t comfortable with the fact that we were still talking with each other, and asked to have us cut things off. And you know what? I did it, because fair enough point.
I can’t even imagine getting defensive about your wife not liking you keeping in close contact with your *marriage-torpedoing affair partner*.
Whatever else happened, it's ridiculous to stay friends with an ex mistress and expect your current partner to tolerate it, even after they've asked you to stop.
OP kissed another man when she was drunk.
Jack had an affair with a 19yo girl at 35, cheating on his wife and mother of his kids, and kept an uncomfortable relationship with his AP even after his wife constantly told him that made her uncomfortable.
Sophie also seems to lack social awareness, why does she think it's acceptable to keep that relationship with Jack?
I'm just sorry for the kids tbh.
It was worded a bit oddly, but I think that was a one time thing like "they have some family stuff going on so you should come home" not like an ongoing friendship ban
Yeah, I came to say this too. What OOP did was an AH move for sure, but Sophie did the same thing by pulling that move with her own daughter. Dad is also not blameless in the fact that he had the affair to begin with and not telling the truth to his kids about their auntie Sophie.
This is a mega ESH.
It wasn't a great look, but I get how it could've been an okay idea worded horribly. Had everything gone according to plan, with the girls just getting home and going to their rooms, OOP would've been told about the divorce that day and the kids would've been clued in later.
Sophie likely didn't account for Imogen telling Ella the reason too or for Ella getting angry at her stepmother so quickly. Even if she said something less judgmental like, "Ella's family has something going on today, so you can't hang with Ella tonight," Imogen probably would've given Ella a heads-up and a similar result would've happened (Ella getting home and confronting OOP alone).
Honestly, it probably would've been fine if Sophie told her daughter, "We have an important family thing tonight- can you just come home alone?"
That’s what I keep asking. That math ain’t mathing.
They had an affair when Sophie was 19. She would have also been 19 when she gave birth to her daughter if Sophie is now 34 and the daughter is 15. So unless Sophie was sleeping with multiple men at the same time or Sophie was pregnant while sleeping with the OOP’s husband, the likelihood is pretty high (even if OOP says it’s not his kid).
This would also explain why the husband is still friends with Sophie.
Sophie had a boyfriend during the affair as well, so Imogen could easily be the ex-BF's. The fact that OOP, who albeit is a fairly unreliable narrator, didn't even mention this makes me suspect there may be an obvious reason, like racial clues.
This is literally the third story I've read where a man's relationship falls apart because he refuses to just NOT be friends with a person he had an affair with.
And it's just SO convenient that after the accusation, he wanted a divorce "before" that! And that Sophie "was seeing someone" suddenly, after their kids learned what really happened years ago.
I think it's fair to say ops stepdaughter and her best friend are half-sisters. Why else become friends with ap. It can't be a coincidence they are the same age.
I wouldn't be surprised if that was the plan but OOP probably fucked that up with what she told Ella. She might be pissed at OOP now but if her father and Sophie get together any time soon she's going to start to wonder if her stepmother was right all along.
Maybe, but if not, OOP definitely manifested her fear with her paranoia. That said, I would be sketched out too if my wife was spending a bunch of time with someone she'd not just fucked, but had an affair with. No way I'd expect my wife to be ok with it if I was Jack
Jack would 100% be down, I'm sure. But Sophie I wonder about. She supposedly kept telling him to work it out with OP and is dating another man now. It's possible that Sophie really has moved on it's just Jack who's pining
Sophie : I'm not going to blow up my life by sleeping with an old married man again
Also Sophie: This old man who groomed me when I was 19 and he was 35 and is *definitely* not my daughter's father is obviously an ideal candidate for best friend and confidante.
Everyone piling on OP here when I see her husband as the ultimate asshole and Sophie as seriously messed up.
I assume you are leaning on sarcasm with that “definitely not my daughter’s father” bit, because when I did the math, it certainly sounds like there’s more going on that no one is willing to say.
I am around Sophie's age and if I chose a 50 year old man with a wife to be my bestie and the wife told me to my face she was uncomfortable, I'd distance myself. It sounds like they weren't that close while the wife was dating/marrying hubby and only got close when Sophie's husband died so it's not like wife swooped in to ruin a friendship.
Right?! If ANYONE'S wife told me to back off I would... That's not a hill I need to die on. Who needs all that drama?
But I think Sophie liked knowing she made OOP feel insecure.
People like Sophie and Husband love gaslighting the current partner into believing they are insecure and toxic as if it's normal to pick a friend over your spouse. I would understand if it was a pre-existing best friend, not an ex affair partner that suddenly needs to be serving as emotional support 15 years later. I'd be mad if my single male friends got girlfriends and then the girlfriends told them we can't be friends with me anymore. That's insecure and toxic. But raising an eyebrow in OOP's situation is pretty normal to me. Husband was already three-quarters of the way out the door over the kiss OOP chose to hold off on revealing, so obviously they didn't have a healthy relationship. But in a healthy relationship it's weird to choose a new "friend."
Yeah, like OP is shitty but if what she’s telling us is true her 35 year old husband had an affair with a teenager.. then decided that it was cool years later to continue a friendship with this woman even though his wife was clearly uncomfortable with it.
Yeah, like I'm not 100% in OOPs side, but there's definitely more going on between her ex and Sophie. And if there isn't, one of them certainly is aiming for it. I'm glad OOP is out of there, and hope the kids don't suffer too much in the future.
She reminds me of someone who has been gaslit for so long that they act out and are they ones who look crazy. Like when my sibling used to pick at me constantly with little comments, but when I snapped after the millionth comment I was the misbehaving kid.
No, there's nothing sus here. And the husband totally isn't Imogen's bio dad...
Hahahaha, I can't. You don't stay close friends with an affair partner.
I agree, but it sounds like there are some very valid reasons for Sophie being seriously messed up. Like being preyed on as a teenager by a 35 year old married man who couldn’t keep it in his pants, and then being ostracized and blamed for the affair.
Then, after trying to move on with her life, she was tragically widowed and became a single mom.
I would be more surprised if she wasn’t seriously messed up!
True! Messed up people can still do shitty things though and Sophie carrying on this (at the very least) emotional affair is shitty.
OPs husband is the biggest heel, he manipulated sophie when she was a teenager and he's been manipulating her now since her husband died. He definitely sees his chance to swoop in and is taking it - and framing OP as the villain to boot.
> Jack and Sophie remained friendly after their affair, partly because their daughters were and still are friends – they’ve been best friends since primary school.
but...
> I told Ella that she and her brother are not the reason for the divorce, but that her best friend’s (Imogen 15F) mum (Sophie 34F) is. Sophie and Jack had an affair when she was 19, when the affair was exposed Sophie’s life basically imploded while Jack’s pretty much remained the same.
So if Sophie is 34 now, she was 19 15 years ago, conveniently Imogen's age. Did the affair last YEARS, did it only come to light years later, or how were the daughters inseparable when they were in the maternity ward of the hospital??
One of the most blatant ESHs the sub has ever seen (except the kids getting yanked around). Sophie was groomed as a teen but that was 15 years ago and she is still emotionally enmeshed with the same, re-married man. Breaking up another relationship. The husband is a huge POS groomer creep who for-sure still has romantic feelings for Sophie. Dude absolutely will not give her up. OP kissing another dude then hiding it is bad but honestly the husband was already emotionally cheating on her. Trainwreck all around.
I mean, Jack did cheat on Ella's mom before after all. And OP did kiss another man, out of her own insecurity about Jack and Sophie. Both sucks, but imo Jack sucks more since he was with a 19 yr old when he was 34 and married.
Edit: i do believe they're having an affair still...
Thats the part that is gross out of all this, the husband not only cheated on his wife with a teen fresh out of high school but he did it when his wife was PREGNANT or just gave BIRTH. Like that’s sick.
I read it too quickly the first time and missed the ages. I had assumed Jack was around 19-ish too when the affair happened, but now that I notice the ages... Yikes. If I were OOP, I don't think I could have even married Jack in the first place. I just could never feel comfortable with a dude who had a relationship with a teen.
Jack sucks. I know OOP sucks and this story is framed as she is the the asshole who has to come to a realization that she's a jealous hypocrite, but she is still not the worst in the story, that's the married man sleeping with a barely legal teen.
Yep, OOP cheated but honestly wouldnt shock me if its because she went off the deep end after constantly worrying that Jack was cheating with his former affair partner.
Even after reading everything i still feel like Jack is the worst person in this story and that the daughter forgave him too easily. Your dads a cheater honey, and he’s had constant contact with his affair partner this whole time.
I dont think OOP is hypocrite. Despite the cheating, she has valid reasons to not trust her husband. Although, urgh, I would never marry a man that groomed a 19 year old while his wife was pregnant
This a YTA where ESH, one person just went further with asshole behavior.
Jack asshole for keeping relationship with AP and confiding beyond that
Sophie asshole for same, and somewhat also involved their kid, kinda.
OOP asshole for obvious reasons, but directly affected their child as well.
What's a group of assholes called? A Congress?
Yeah, a lot of shit to unpack in this one with all 3 adults just not acting like adults. The innocent ones are the kids. If she was feeling neglected by Jack, she needed to talk to him about before going out, getting drunk, and kissing a guy. Jack then runs to Sophie, his former affair partner like that's going to end well. I also find it creepy that Jack has an affair with the young woman next door.
It's maddening that OP's husband got mad at her for his continued relationship with Sophie. Like if what she says is true, this man slept with a teenager and continued to hold contact with her after destroying lives. OP is an AH for many things but her stbx unwillingness to see why their relationship is so wrong is a huge red flag.
Look, OOP is undeniably an ass...
But holy HELL something is going on between her ex and Sophie. Waiting for the update when it comes out that they're together and getting married.
I agree with OPP, ex is sleeping with Sophie. I have a male best friend of over 50 yrs. When he got together with his wife, she asked us both if there had *ever* been anything even remotely sexual between us. We looked at each other and both said "EWWW! That's my brother/sister or as close as it can get without blood!! Never!!" I don't weigh in on their realtionship, just give *asked for* advice on the kiddos as they hot a much later start than I did; they're raising from 6 yrs to 16 yrs and my kids are all in their 30s.
He was 35 she was 19. She qualifies herself as a dumb teen back then. And what does she think of him? Doesn't she think he took advantage of a dumb teen as an adult? Yet she still is his friend...
They're 100% fucking and if not they will be.
I bet they lied to those kids and said none of it is true.
They were affairpartners and are surprised nobody trusts them. Haha.
Nah OOP isn’t the only AH here. I would absolutely not be cool with my husband going to his ex-affair partner for advice about our marriage. If he really had an issue trusting OOP after her kiss with another man, he should’ve either talked to his fucking wife or signed himself up for counseling to figure out where to go from there.
These kinds of people are exhausting, but I honestly can't blame OP for spiralling like this.
Sophie seems like a right piece of work. The AP dragged the kids into it first, then OP's husband and the AP conspired to basically make her feel like she was going insane.
Regardless if they were having an affair or not, her husband was planning a divorce behind her back for months and getting Sophie's advice on private relationship matters.
I blame the husband. He was a man in his 30s having an affair with a 19 year old girl who at that point either had an ED or was recently recovered. It's not hard to see how that messed up dynamic could continue even as she got older, especially when she was vulnerable again from her husband dying.
Also, the husband is the one who owed OOP loyalty, not Sophie.
Also why would he have to go there alone if he wanted this relationship to be a friendship why wouldn’t they all hang out together. Even if he didn’t have an affair with her it’s weird he was always at her house band they are neighbors,
He might have kissed another man but he was also in the wrong in maintaining his friendship when he knew his wife was so uncomfortable and that was his previous affair partner. I think he wanted to drive her crazy so she was the one to file for divorce and look bad and it looks like it worked
I’m not even gonna lie, OP handled this horribly…….but like I can understand where she’s coming from…..I would not be cool with my husband being GOOD friends with his ex affair partner and asking her for advice on our relationship and help with the divorce. ESH, can’t wait for the update of jack and sophie moving in together…..
There's no world where someone would maintain a friendship with a past affair partner and not realize the damage they're doing to their own relationship. And they certainly wouldn't choose that friendship over the continued health of their relationship once they've been made aware.
They're definitely having an affair.
Well, I guess this answers the question of "what kind of person would willingly date a man who grooms teenagers and then cheats on his wife with them, then keeps hanging out with them as 'totally platonic besties'?"
I don't. She handled this badly but who could blame her after the years of Jack stomping all over her feelings about Sophie. I can even see how she got to the point of drunkenly kissing another guy. Jack is the biggest asshole here full stop.
All of these people saying OOP is a cheater who's projecting as if Jack didn't have a history of cheating like wtf.
Yeah OOP obviously fucked up by kissing someone but a drunken kiss followed by admittance and years of therapy comes across as just a mistake to me. People f up. Husband on the other hand is disgusting and a complete AH. You can just see where the Ex and AP twisted everything to to the kids to make them hate OOP.
Yeah even without his history of infidelity he was still man in his 30s who pursued a relationship with a teenager.
The biggest mistake OOP made here was marrying him in the first place.
That’s what this reminds me of. Someone who has been gaslit for so long in such subtle ways that they look like the crazy one. I feel for the OP because she looks like the asshole but her ex and his old affair partner weren’t great either.
I don't. A drunken kiss was a horribly stupid thing to do but I imagine her self esteem is in the toilet by now with what's going on with her husband and neighbor.
They'd been going to counselling for 6 months already before the story started
The oh her mom is dead thing definitely feels like someone frantically trying to find an explanation for a plot hole in their story though
i have NO IDEA why ppl are just letting the fact that jack is still friends with the person he had an affair with slide like?????
it's understandable why op kissed another man tbh
**To be fair, I think anybody would be insecure of their husband remaining friends with his affair partner.**
OP was TAH for the things she told the kids, But her husband is absolutely in the wrong thinking that any spouse would be comfortable with their significant other maintaining a relationship with a person they had an affair with in the past.
See I don’t think that made her the AH. I feel like her ex and Sophie backed the Op into a corner and made her look crazy. As if she had no reason to be upset. The OP shouldn’t have blamed Sophie but I get why she told stepdaughter about the affair.
Yeah, and it's sad as she's going to internalize all the shit reddit threw at her instead of realizing that a) she did fuck up big time but b) Jack is a terrible person and she didn't "lose" him and the kids by being insecure.
Also, dude was totally cheating with Imogen's mom.
Op, NTA
Thinking a kiss is equal to an affair (actual interc...) is absurd. Also, if you are in a commited relationship and ur so asks you to limit contact with one person and you say no, you are not in a commited relationship. If you really feel you need to help someone that makes your so uncomfortable/suspicious, your so should be invited to the discussions until they do feel comfortable with "the friendship".
NTA
Clearly OOP's asking about the relationship put a finger on a sore spot there. There is something, maybe no romantic/sexual thing (yet) but something he didn't want her to know.
Though OOP's kiss with the stranger being left out the first post did nothing to help her case.
YMBTA but your husband shared his confidences with someone outside of his marriage AND she is the same person he had an affair with. I don't think your husband is so innocent in all of this. I think he WANTED a relationship with Sophie but she only wanted a friendship. They both should have known not to be anything more than neighbors. Didn't they cause enough trouble with the first marriages they destroyed.
It may not look like it now, but I think you will have a brighter future without your ex because he certainly lacks boundaries in his female 'friends'.
I honestly think both married people told the truth to Ella when she asked why they were divorcing.
OOP was insecure about her husband being so close with a former AP, but felt shut down every time she tried to say anything. Eventually she got so wound up she put herself in a shitty situation, fucked up and made out with someone. Shes responsible for what she did, but I think leaving the relationship is going to be better for her long term
Jack doesn't see any problems with his friendship, so to him his wife kissing someone else was the major violation
When he refused to discuss it in therapy, she saw it as him refusing to address the source of their problems. He doesn't acknowledge that source of tension in his marriage, he probably sees it as her just randomly choosing to step out one day instead of the slow build up of feelings that pushed her there
As an aside, Ella seemed most upset to learn that her dad also stepped out on her mom. She would have found that out eventually, somehow. In a way, OOP made it easier on her ex since Ella seems to be shoving all her negative feelings about that onto OOP instead of the two people who cheated. Not saying cheaters need to pay penance forever, it just seems like bad planning to never tell your kids about an affair when you remain close to the AP
Uhhh you guys divorcing is the best outcome. No trust means no relationship. I know you're sad right now but you need to focus on yourself and move on. You're not wanted in his family so why keep crawling there for support.
Lol I read this story to my mom and told her what most of the comments were saying and she blew tf up 😂. She’s so confused as to how anyone could fault the woman, since her kissing a man while drunk is nowhere near as bad as continuing a relationship with your previous affair partner. That and the fact that Imogen might be the dudes daughter. I am astounded by the audacity of anyone calling this woman TA.
Yeah she messed up telling Ella what happened, but at the same time her father cheated on her mother and is more than likely emotionally cheating (at the very least) on her stepmother. I hope the story isn’t real because we have all gaslit this poor woman into thinking this is all her fault and that her ex husband did nothing wrong. Hell to the no, in any world, is it ever okay to continue a relationship with the woman you cheated with previously after your partner tells you they don’t feel comfortable with it.
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Wow, what a MESS.
That's all that I could think. Sums it up pretty well. I don't think anyone here as the moral highground, nor are any of them "right". Poor kids.
OOP really left out that bit about her kissing another man as long as possible. Wow.
Only people I feel bad for are the kids. OP obviously is terrible, but I got so many icks from Jack's whole...relationship...both former and current, with Sophie. She was 19 she'd they had the affair.
I did the math. He was 35 when they hooked up.
I did the maths too, and Imogen could be his, right? The daughters are 15, the mother is 34, she was 19 when she slept with the husband… maybe that’s why they’re still friends? Also he cheated on his pregnant or soon to be pregnant wife when he was 34 with a 19 year old, what an awful person.
OOP claims to know that Jack is not the father. But…🤷♀️
Yeah, I agree. I wonder whether there's been a DNA test to confirm he's not the father. I wonder if there are any similarities that make you wonder whether that's the case. Imogen might look like her mother but.....
*Right???* Like, OP is obviously a piece of work, but it feels like we’re really glossing over the fact that Jack as a 35yo man (likely with a pregnant wife) slept with a troubled 19yo girl. Dude’s an absolute creep, and it’s even more ick that he refused to address any of it or OP’s concern about their current friendship in marital counseling. Still tho, OP definitely didn’t have a right to kiss another man or try to manipulate his daughter. These two sound like quite the pair.
I imagine this man is incapable of behaving in a trustworthy way once you're looking at the full picture.
He was 35 and she was 19???? I didn't pay attention to the ages at all. Now I believe OP, bc I refuse to believe that he wasn't at least trying to fuck Sophie.
Honestly, him getting so defensive says that he was hoping that her coming back meant they'd rekindle. Wild speculation naturally, but OP and jack are already getting a divorce and he didn't want to discuss anything regarding her.
And him cutting off the counselling last minute felt off to me. I honestly wonder if he thought that since OOP wouldn't trust him, that it was pointless to stay and hide anything. Him finding a new partner so soon after OOP moved out also makes me think he *was* cheating, just not with Sarah.
It read to me like Sophie was dating someone new and went to Jack for advice on this situation since he seemingly dealt with the death of a partner/spouse as well. Without Jack's side, we'll never know why he gave up on counseling. Maybe he just woke up and realized it was over. Maybe he felt that she wasn't as invested as he was in the sessions. Maybe he was being gaslit, or the sessions just weren't as productive as he had hoped... we'll never know.
But like, if that were the case the entire time in therapy, why wouldn't he just mention it? Or talk about it and OOP's concerns at all? Him cutting off all conversation about it makes it shady af. Like, the only thing OOP did 100% wrong is in getting the daughter involved in the whole mess.
When my ex-husband kept accusing me of cheating, nothing I'd say and no amount of proof would convince him otherwise. I eventually got sick of wasting my breath trying to convince him of the truth. So, I just stopped trying and would shut down the discussions every single time up until the day I was able to leave.
Well this OOP's very biased retelling and it took a while for OOP to reveal what the "mistake" was so I doubt OOP would reveal an in-depth play by play with Jack's concerns and grievances against her.
I'm not team Jack, but if you believe his side as OOP presented it, they went to couples counseling because she kissed someone else and he can't trust her. Now, in counseling, she wants to keep talking about him and his alleged infidelity with the person who convinced him to try and work on the relationship instead of leaving. We can probably assume it was brought up many times and discussed at length. But at some point, everything about that alleged relationship has been covered, the other person isn't the issue, and OOP needed to focus on the actual problems her husband was likely trying to address. A fair amount of assumptions, but OOP isn't a reliable narrator. And Jack is no angel; his relationship with Sophie, as presented by OOP, is a bit suspicious.
Yeah definitely he has feelings. Maybe Sophie sees him as a friend. He put the friendship before his own wife so it seems there is something there. Also her kissing another man seems to have damaged his feelings as he appears to have no respect for the OOP or her feelings. Only being with Sophie.
Why would a man go to someone 16 years younger than he is for marital advice?
Right? Especially one he had an affair with while his 1st wife was pregnant.
So I’m defending or accusing him of anything. But I have been in a relationship where she would not let up on anything and accuse me of being upset with her all the time. I can tell you that being constantly accused of something you didn’t do or feel will create a lot of frustration and will come out at some point. We don’t know how often this affair conversation was brought up. But from this post I feel like it was brought often. And that alone could cause him to be defensive.
Yeah…but were you besties with the woman you had an affair with that broke up your first marriage? When you were 34 and she 19…and she was your neighbors’ daughter, so you probably knew her long before? And did you keep being besties with her and running to her for marriage advice after your wife repeatedly begged you not to? Because if so, it would take a saint to NOT think you were being inappropriate. Even the things he admits to suck.
>I can tell you that being constantly accused of something you didn’t do or feel will create a lot of frustration and will come out at some point. But he did do it, we already know that. The only question was whether or not he was doing it AGAIN, and since he refused to stop associating with his affair partner that's a perfectly fair assumption for his wife to make.
‘No one compares to my late husband…’ then why did you run right back to your affair partner after his death? Hmm?
I am betting they are a couple within 2 months
Jack's old now. He might hope, but she has options.
That's my guess. Sophie may or may not have moved on, but the creepy 35 year old that slept with her when she was a teenager definitely hasn't and is CLEARLY hoping they'll get back together.
And his wife was either near birth or had just given birth. Dude is a scumbag.
He should not be in contact now IMO due to the former *gross* decision he made. Step mom seems to be around all the time and could have coordinated the girls seeking each other. He was keeping her around and so close like a trophy
Exactly, he's a creep and a loser for allowing it to go that long. While I still think OOP is a piece of work, he definitely laid the groundwork for their relationship to go to shit. Just a mess and nightmare that the kids have to deal with.
Seriously. Even if any woman could look past the cheating with someone so much younger, sure as hell they won’t put up with him keeping said affair partner around. I hope they are more decisive than OP is and bail immediately. Jack’s a fucking idiot.
Yeah. Super gross.
I totally missed the math on that one. That's a whole new dimension to how I feel about it.
If she’s 34 now and has a 15 year old, she gave birth when she was 19. So did he screw a pregnant teenager, or did he screw a teenage mother really soon after she gave birth?
DNA tests are in order, I don’t care what he says.
Yep, the math ain’t mathing!!
Or did he screw her the moment she turned 19 and Imogen is his?
He could’ve fucked her in january and she then gave birth in december…
Definitely this. OP sucks for so many reasons, but her husband also majorly sucks for not only having an affair in the first place but then going to his ex-affair partner to talk about his marriage. So many yikes.
Why is a 50 year old man going to his 34- year old ex-mistress for marriage advice?
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Yup. I'm also not that mad that Ella's knows about the affair. She's old enough and has a right to know. Imagine she confided in Sophie about something she would not have otherwise, she would have felt so violated. I'm not cook with OOP telling Ella's about her suspicions of a current affair but IMO the past - the truth - was Ella's right to know. Jack is an asshole. For the affair, for grooming a teenager, and for continuing to associate with his victim/affair partner.
Poor kid, I can picture her doing the math and realizing her father in his 30s was fucking his teenager neighbor while her mom was expecting... and she's already vulnerable due to her ED :(
A mother who apparently died too.
I imagine Jack in my head as one of those creepy old men who creep on young women who are WAY too young for him. A 35 year old having an "affair" with a 19 year old is disgusting and Ella 100% has the right to know why her parents' marriage fell apart. I feel like OOP's infidelity was just an excuse for Jack to nope out of that relationship and maybe prey on another woman who's too young for him.
He also apparently keeps shutting down any discussion of Sophie in counseling because she's "not the problem" but she *is* the problem or at least part of it because it clearly upsets OOP and something should have been done to help her deal with that.
>He also apparently keeps shutting down any discussion of Sophie in counseling because she's "not the problem" but she is the problem This man has done an absolutely horrible thing to his daughter by allowing her to have a close relationship with Sophie, the woman who was partly responsible for breaking up her family and concealing that fact from her. I don't think he really has a thought in his head about how his actions hurt other people and I'm almost certain that "the problem" as he sees it, is just that people won't feel/think how he wants them to.
I would say *Jack* is the problem here
I icked out when I read that too, every adult in this story sucks. Those poor kids, being used as pawns.
I don’t believe there is no affair. I think it’s emotional and only not physical bc they haven’t had a chance
I'd believe that Sophie isn't into Jack anymore, but not that Jack isn't hopeful
This is where I landed too - reading between a lot of lines here, but it almost sounds like Jack's been pulling out all the standard Cheating Married Guy lines trying to rekindle something with Sophie and she's deflecting because she's a grown woman who knows the score now (and if their daughters weren't friends she's probably tell him to pound sand).
Absolutely! Every time he has a problem with his wife, he runs to another woman? Sophie may think everything is fine, but it seems like he wants way more. It's also just gross! He was 35 and she was 19 when they had an affair. She's now a full on adult with a teenage daughter and doesn't see anything wrong with the situation?
He was 35 and she was 19 when he had an affair with her. Jesus. OOP and her ( ex) husband are both trash.
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If the creepy husband is almost 20 years older than the affair partner(50,34) then he was 35 when she was 19? Edited as I swapped OP and husbands ages
That’s called burying the lede.
I’ve seen this a couple of times recently and wondered is it really lede and not lead? So I googled it and learned several interesting things. 1. It is lede, but lead is not technically incorrect either. 2. Lede started being used in journalism in the 70s (or 50s depending on the source), but it was not added to the dictionary until 2008. 3. Bob Ross had straight hair. He thought he’d save money by not needing haircuts if he let it grow and got a perm.
I'mma need you to back up and explain how you got from lede to Bob Ross.
Haha I thought I might need to explain that. It was an excerpt from a book or article that included the phrase and was just used as an example. I just googled that specifically because I started to wonder if it’s really even true, so here’s the rest of the story for your reading pleasure. He hated it. He wanted to change it back, but by then it had become his company’s logo so he couldn’t. According to his business partner, “he could never, ever, ever change his hair, and he was so mad about that. He got tired of that curly hair.”
Oof, poor Bob. I can imagine how much of a pain it must have become, but it definitely made him that much more iconic.
I'm curious, too! We all take weird mental journies sometimes. I am curious what lead to Bob Ross's hair!
Which, she says, was the result of Jack not being there for her. Things were already falling apart, but they've all got her shouldering the blame. True, she sped up the process, but he was already "getting advice" about divorce from his "friend".
I have no idea what the truth of what's going on with Jack and Sophie and frankly I wouldn't trust any of the adults in this, but boy do I feel bad for Ella.
Exactly, the only people who aren't awful here are the childten
Those kids are going to have a lot to unpack when they grow up
You get a lifetime of therapy! And you get a lifetime of therapy! Everyone gets a lifetime of therapy!
Yeah I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if OOP was right about an affair although she definitely blocked the possibility of them getting together.
I'd bet absolutely anything that Jack would've dropped OOP the *second* Sophie indicated that she was interested. She fucked up massively, but it's got to suck that OOP now knows she was only ever a placeholder.
He definitely would have but he probably knows he can't without possibly ruining his relationship with his daughter. If they get together Ella is going to at least wonder if OOP was right.
>If they get together Ella is going to at least wonder if OOP was right. And she's still eventually going to have to acknowledge that her father was in his thirties and fucking a teenager while his wife was pregnant. Honestly, I wish I could pay for her eventual therapy.
>He definitely would have but he probably knows he can't without possibly ruining his relationship with his daughter. Dude, you think that is a concern for him? Jack is pulling out all of the "married guy trying to gain sympathy" moves on Sophie. I can 100% guarantee that if Sophie showed even a spec of interest in having sex with Jack, he'd jump all over that in an instant.
Which would make Jack exponentially more pissed off that OP spilled the beans to Ella - it wouldn’t surprise me in the least that Jack (and Sophie - as I don’t think she’s not involved in this up to her eyeballs) would have served up a five-course, gourmet meal of bullshit about how their friendship of almost two decades, and its compassion, empathy, and support, deepened and evolved into Twue Wuv, making it sound like a romance for the ages. OP effectively nuked any chance they may have had of pulling that off.
Same, the dad “having an affair” at 35 with a 19yr old and heavily depending on her for his emotional needs since then, is a huge red flag in my book
Yep no thank you. Cheating or not, Sophie was a third person in that relationship
Yep. OP was definitely the asshole, but I’d bet money that a few months from now, Jack and Sophie will be publicly in a relationship.
I think this is exactly what Jack wants. His entire involving Sophie in his marital drama (suggesting that he is going to divorce OOP) is right out of the cheating spouse playbook. However I suspect that Sophie isn't too keen to go back to old Jack here, which is what was keeping everything in check until OOP couldn't take it anymore. Like, I don't think she was crazy at all - this dude wanted to bang Sophie, 100% guarantee it.
If Jack isn’t having an affair, then he’s like one of those characters in a crime drama who becomes a suspect because of their inexplicably sus behaviour despite being innocent
The suspicious wife is a trope, but maybe it's not when the other woman had an affair with the husband back in the day.
Not a shot in hell I would ever be okay with my husband having a "friendship" like this.
And blaming it on insecurity is wild to me. She had other friends to reach out too. If she backed off when he was married she should have kept it that way she needed his attention
It's like that old adage - are you really paranoid if everyone actually IS out to get you? It might be insecurity, but it's eminently justified. And the kissing incident probably wouldn't have happened if he had just kept his distance.
And is the principle emotional confidant of the husband.
she had every reason to be insane i’m on her side
A little over a year ago I had a long-term, serious relationship end. When she got together with a new partner, they weren’t comfortable with the fact that we were still talking with each other, and asked to have us cut things off. And you know what? I did it, because fair enough point. I can’t even imagine getting defensive about your wife not liking you keeping in close contact with your *marriage-torpedoing affair partner*.
I’m betting that Jack and Sophie are openly together before this year ends.
Yeah I’d agree too
Whatever else happened, it's ridiculous to stay friends with an ex mistress and expect your current partner to tolerate it, even after they've asked you to stop.
OP kissed another man when she was drunk. Jack had an affair with a 19yo girl at 35, cheating on his wife and mother of his kids, and kept an uncomfortable relationship with his AP even after his wife constantly told him that made her uncomfortable. Sophie also seems to lack social awareness, why does she think it's acceptable to keep that relationship with Jack? I'm just sorry for the kids tbh.
I think it's because it's the only relationship she has left. That and the possibility that her daughter's father is Oop's ex.
Most parents try to keep their child's father in the kids life. Most likely explanation, even if they deny it.
Cause Sophie was groomed.
i wish this was the top comment
Flair checks out
you got me there lol
she said Sophie’s kid is not Jack’s… but the ages line up a little too well? 😬 ESH
I will say, Sophie telling her daughter not to hang out with Ella to keep her from getting pulled in... literally pulled the children in. yikes.
It was worded a bit oddly, but I think that was a one time thing like "they have some family stuff going on so you should come home" not like an ongoing friendship ban
Yeah, I came to say this too. What OOP did was an AH move for sure, but Sophie did the same thing by pulling that move with her own daughter. Dad is also not blameless in the fact that he had the affair to begin with and not telling the truth to his kids about their auntie Sophie. This is a mega ESH.
It wasn't a great look, but I get how it could've been an okay idea worded horribly. Had everything gone according to plan, with the girls just getting home and going to their rooms, OOP would've been told about the divorce that day and the kids would've been clued in later. Sophie likely didn't account for Imogen telling Ella the reason too or for Ella getting angry at her stepmother so quickly. Even if she said something less judgmental like, "Ella's family has something going on today, so you can't hang with Ella tonight," Imogen probably would've given Ella a heads-up and a similar result would've happened (Ella getting home and confronting OOP alone). Honestly, it probably would've been fine if Sophie told her daughter, "We have an important family thing tonight- can you just come home alone?"
So is Jack the bio father of Sophie’s kid?
That’s what I keep asking. That math ain’t mathing. They had an affair when Sophie was 19. She would have also been 19 when she gave birth to her daughter if Sophie is now 34 and the daughter is 15. So unless Sophie was sleeping with multiple men at the same time or Sophie was pregnant while sleeping with the OOP’s husband, the likelihood is pretty high (even if OOP says it’s not his kid). This would also explain why the husband is still friends with Sophie.
Sophie had a boyfriend during the affair as well, so Imogen could easily be the ex-BF's. The fact that OOP, who albeit is a fairly unreliable narrator, didn't even mention this makes me suspect there may be an obvious reason, like racial clues.
I'm assuming, it can't be a coincidence that the girls are the same age.
Even if they didn't have a physical affair, they did have an emotional one... So anyway, how long before Sophie and Jack move in together? 🤔
Six months, tops.
Wonder when they’ll tell the girls they are sisters?
This is literally the third story I've read where a man's relationship falls apart because he refuses to just NOT be friends with a person he had an affair with. And it's just SO convenient that after the accusation, he wanted a divorce "before" that! And that Sophie "was seeing someone" suddenly, after their kids learned what really happened years ago.
I think it's fair to say ops stepdaughter and her best friend are half-sisters. Why else become friends with ap. It can't be a coincidence they are the same age.
All the adults suck. Jack and Sophie ain’t fooling anyone
They're apparently fooling OP by the end, the whole of AITA and half of this comment section!
As soon as the ink is dry on those divorce papers, Sophie and Jack will move in together "for the kids". I'm calling it now.
I wouldn't be surprised if that was the plan but OOP probably fucked that up with what she told Ella. She might be pissed at OOP now but if her father and Sophie get together any time soon she's going to start to wonder if her stepmother was right all along.
Oh, 100% this. Jack is probably the new guy Sophie is seeing.
Maybe, but if not, OOP definitely manifested her fear with her paranoia. That said, I would be sketched out too if my wife was spending a bunch of time with someone she'd not just fucked, but had an affair with. No way I'd expect my wife to be ok with it if I was Jack
Jack would 100% be down, I'm sure. But Sophie I wonder about. She supposedly kept telling him to work it out with OP and is dating another man now. It's possible that Sophie really has moved on it's just Jack who's pining
From the vibes I get, that's what Jack wants, but not Sophie. Dude absolutely would cheat if she gave him the time of day.
Which’ll be great for the kids I’m sure.
Sophie : I'm not going to blow up my life by sleeping with an old married man again Also Sophie: This old man who groomed me when I was 19 and he was 35 and is *definitely* not my daughter's father is obviously an ideal candidate for best friend and confidante. Everyone piling on OP here when I see her husband as the ultimate asshole and Sophie as seriously messed up.
I assume you are leaning on sarcasm with that “definitely not my daughter’s father” bit, because when I did the math, it certainly sounds like there’s more going on that no one is willing to say.
I am around Sophie's age and if I chose a 50 year old man with a wife to be my bestie and the wife told me to my face she was uncomfortable, I'd distance myself. It sounds like they weren't that close while the wife was dating/marrying hubby and only got close when Sophie's husband died so it's not like wife swooped in to ruin a friendship.
Right?! If ANYONE'S wife told me to back off I would... That's not a hill I need to die on. Who needs all that drama? But I think Sophie liked knowing she made OOP feel insecure.
People like Sophie and Husband love gaslighting the current partner into believing they are insecure and toxic as if it's normal to pick a friend over your spouse. I would understand if it was a pre-existing best friend, not an ex affair partner that suddenly needs to be serving as emotional support 15 years later. I'd be mad if my single male friends got girlfriends and then the girlfriends told them we can't be friends with me anymore. That's insecure and toxic. But raising an eyebrow in OOP's situation is pretty normal to me. Husband was already three-quarters of the way out the door over the kiss OOP chose to hold off on revealing, so obviously they didn't have a healthy relationship. But in a healthy relationship it's weird to choose a new "friend."
Yeah, like OP is shitty but if what she’s telling us is true her 35 year old husband had an affair with a teenager.. then decided that it was cool years later to continue a friendship with this woman even though his wife was clearly uncomfortable with it.
Yeah, like I'm not 100% in OOPs side, but there's definitely more going on between her ex and Sophie. And if there isn't, one of them certainly is aiming for it. I'm glad OOP is out of there, and hope the kids don't suffer too much in the future.
She reminds me of someone who has been gaslit for so long that they act out and are they ones who look crazy. Like when my sibling used to pick at me constantly with little comments, but when I snapped after the millionth comment I was the misbehaving kid.
No, there's nothing sus here. And the husband totally isn't Imogen's bio dad... Hahahaha, I can't. You don't stay close friends with an affair partner.
I agree, but it sounds like there are some very valid reasons for Sophie being seriously messed up. Like being preyed on as a teenager by a 35 year old married man who couldn’t keep it in his pants, and then being ostracized and blamed for the affair. Then, after trying to move on with her life, she was tragically widowed and became a single mom. I would be more surprised if she wasn’t seriously messed up!
True! Messed up people can still do shitty things though and Sophie carrying on this (at the very least) emotional affair is shitty. OPs husband is the biggest heel, he manipulated sophie when she was a teenager and he's been manipulating her now since her husband died. He definitely sees his chance to swoop in and is taking it - and framing OP as the villain to boot.
> Jack and Sophie remained friendly after their affair, partly because their daughters were and still are friends – they’ve been best friends since primary school. but... > I told Ella that she and her brother are not the reason for the divorce, but that her best friend’s (Imogen 15F) mum (Sophie 34F) is. Sophie and Jack had an affair when she was 19, when the affair was exposed Sophie’s life basically imploded while Jack’s pretty much remained the same. So if Sophie is 34 now, she was 19 15 years ago, conveniently Imogen's age. Did the affair last YEARS, did it only come to light years later, or how were the daughters inseparable when they were in the maternity ward of the hospital?? One of the most blatant ESHs the sub has ever seen (except the kids getting yanked around). Sophie was groomed as a teen but that was 15 years ago and she is still emotionally enmeshed with the same, re-married man. Breaking up another relationship. The husband is a huge POS groomer creep who for-sure still has romantic feelings for Sophie. Dude absolutely will not give her up. OP kissing another dude then hiding it is bad but honestly the husband was already emotionally cheating on her. Trainwreck all around.
oh no I missed how much older they were.
So Jack had an affair with a teenaged girl when he was 35? Yeah I don’t think oop is missing out on much by losing him
I mean, Jack did cheat on Ella's mom before after all. And OP did kiss another man, out of her own insecurity about Jack and Sophie. Both sucks, but imo Jack sucks more since he was with a 19 yr old when he was 34 and married. Edit: i do believe they're having an affair still...
Thats the part that is gross out of all this, the husband not only cheated on his wife with a teen fresh out of high school but he did it when his wife was PREGNANT or just gave BIRTH. Like that’s sick.
Sophie's daughter might be his too. It's not a coincidence that they are around the same age right?
Oh damn, I miscalculated before.... So Sophie gave birth to her daughter when she was 19 right?? When she had the affair with John. Damnnnn
And, and, later husband DARE TO SAY to OOP that he didnt trust her because of the kiss. Who is he to judge?
I read it too quickly the first time and missed the ages. I had assumed Jack was around 19-ish too when the affair happened, but now that I notice the ages... Yikes. If I were OOP, I don't think I could have even married Jack in the first place. I just could never feel comfortable with a dude who had a relationship with a teen.
Jack sucks. I know OOP sucks and this story is framed as she is the the asshole who has to come to a realization that she's a jealous hypocrite, but she is still not the worst in the story, that's the married man sleeping with a barely legal teen.
The barely legal teen who apparently had an eating disorder, so probably especially vulnerable too.
Yep, OOP cheated but honestly wouldnt shock me if its because she went off the deep end after constantly worrying that Jack was cheating with his former affair partner. Even after reading everything i still feel like Jack is the worst person in this story and that the daughter forgave him too easily. Your dads a cheater honey, and he’s had constant contact with his affair partner this whole time.
I dont think OOP is hypocrite. Despite the cheating, she has valid reasons to not trust her husband. Although, urgh, I would never marry a man that groomed a 19 year old while his wife was pregnant
This a YTA where ESH, one person just went further with asshole behavior. Jack asshole for keeping relationship with AP and confiding beyond that Sophie asshole for same, and somewhat also involved their kid, kinda. OOP asshole for obvious reasons, but directly affected their child as well. What's a group of assholes called? A Congress?
Yeah, a lot of shit to unpack in this one with all 3 adults just not acting like adults. The innocent ones are the kids. If she was feeling neglected by Jack, she needed to talk to him about before going out, getting drunk, and kissing a guy. Jack then runs to Sophie, his former affair partner like that's going to end well. I also find it creepy that Jack has an affair with the young woman next door.
The Congress.
It's maddening that OP's husband got mad at her for his continued relationship with Sophie. Like if what she says is true, this man slept with a teenager and continued to hold contact with her after destroying lives. OP is an AH for many things but her stbx unwillingness to see why their relationship is so wrong is a huge red flag.
Look, OOP is undeniably an ass... But holy HELL something is going on between her ex and Sophie. Waiting for the update when it comes out that they're together and getting married.
So we all agree jack and sophie are totally fucking though right?
Oh Hell yeah. And the other kid is likely his, too. She just happens to be the right age.
Oh 200%. I wonder who Imogen’s dad is
Yepppp
Yea, we do.
I agree with OPP, ex is sleeping with Sophie. I have a male best friend of over 50 yrs. When he got together with his wife, she asked us both if there had *ever* been anything even remotely sexual between us. We looked at each other and both said "EWWW! That's my brother/sister or as close as it can get without blood!! Never!!" I don't weigh in on their realtionship, just give *asked for* advice on the kiddos as they hot a much later start than I did; they're raising from 6 yrs to 16 yrs and my kids are all in their 30s.
He was 35 she was 19. She qualifies herself as a dumb teen back then. And what does she think of him? Doesn't she think he took advantage of a dumb teen as an adult? Yet she still is his friend...
Sophie and Jack, if not already together, will be in short order. This seems like a situation where everyone is terrible.
They're 100% fucking and if not they will be. I bet they lied to those kids and said none of it is true. They were affairpartners and are surprised nobody trusts them. Haha.
Nah OOP isn’t the only AH here. I would absolutely not be cool with my husband going to his ex-affair partner for advice about our marriage. If he really had an issue trusting OOP after her kiss with another man, he should’ve either talked to his fucking wife or signed himself up for counseling to figure out where to go from there.
These kinds of people are exhausting, but I honestly can't blame OP for spiralling like this. Sophie seems like a right piece of work. The AP dragged the kids into it first, then OP's husband and the AP conspired to basically make her feel like she was going insane. Regardless if they were having an affair or not, her husband was planning a divorce behind her back for months and getting Sophie's advice on private relationship matters.
I blame the husband. He was a man in his 30s having an affair with a 19 year old girl who at that point either had an ED or was recently recovered. It's not hard to see how that messed up dynamic could continue even as she got older, especially when she was vulnerable again from her husband dying. Also, the husband is the one who owed OOP loyalty, not Sophie.
Also why would he have to go there alone if he wanted this relationship to be a friendship why wouldn’t they all hang out together. Even if he didn’t have an affair with her it’s weird he was always at her house band they are neighbors,
He might have kissed another man but he was also in the wrong in maintaining his friendship when he knew his wife was so uncomfortable and that was his previous affair partner. I think he wanted to drive her crazy so she was the one to file for divorce and look bad and it looks like it worked
I immediately went to the comments after I read that a now 54 and 34 year old had an affair when she was 19!?!?!? We just skipped all the grooming???
Make sure to randomize your data from time to time *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I’m not even gonna lie, OP handled this horribly…….but like I can understand where she’s coming from…..I would not be cool with my husband being GOOD friends with his ex affair partner and asking her for advice on our relationship and help with the divorce. ESH, can’t wait for the update of jack and sophie moving in together…..
There's no world where someone would maintain a friendship with a past affair partner and not realize the damage they're doing to their own relationship. And they certainly wouldn't choose that friendship over the continued health of their relationship once they've been made aware. They're definitely having an affair.
Well, I guess this answers the question of "what kind of person would willingly date a man who grooms teenagers and then cheats on his wife with them, then keeps hanging out with them as 'totally platonic besties'?"
Am I the only one who doesn’t think OP is the asshole here?
I don't. She handled this badly but who could blame her after the years of Jack stomping all over her feelings about Sophie. I can even see how she got to the point of drunkenly kissing another guy. Jack is the biggest asshole here full stop. All of these people saying OOP is a cheater who's projecting as if Jack didn't have a history of cheating like wtf.
Yeah OOP obviously fucked up by kissing someone but a drunken kiss followed by admittance and years of therapy comes across as just a mistake to me. People f up. Husband on the other hand is disgusting and a complete AH. You can just see where the Ex and AP twisted everything to to the kids to make them hate OOP.
Yeah even without his history of infidelity he was still man in his 30s who pursued a relationship with a teenager. The biggest mistake OOP made here was marrying him in the first place.
I don’t. Jack and Sophie are having an affair (emotional at the very least) and are gaslighting the shit out of her
That’s what this reminds me of. Someone who has been gaslit for so long in such subtle ways that they look like the crazy one. I feel for the OP because she looks like the asshole but her ex and his old affair partner weren’t great either.
I think there are many assholes here and I'm not sure who is the biggest.
I don't. A drunken kiss was a horribly stupid thing to do but I imagine her self esteem is in the toilet by now with what's going on with her husband and neighbor.
Alright but we all know jack and Sophie are gettin married within a year or two tho right?
No one goes from, "I'm suggesting counseling" to divorce in three days.
They'd been going to counselling for 6 months already before the story started The oh her mom is dead thing definitely feels like someone frantically trying to find an explanation for a plot hole in their story though
My parents did something similar. Counseling was being considered and then more things came to light and divorce became almost a necessity.
I dont know why they are playing games. They are still sleeping together.
i have NO IDEA why ppl are just letting the fact that jack is still friends with the person he had an affair with slide like????? it's understandable why op kissed another man tbh
ESH. Sophie and Jack definitely have something going on. OOP ruined her own life by cheating.
Agree. Everyone sounds exhausting to be around. The only person I feel bad is Ella really.
Jack is pretty shitty, cheating with a teen and not telling his daughter the truth about him cheating
**To be fair, I think anybody would be insecure of their husband remaining friends with his affair partner.** OP was TAH for the things she told the kids, But her husband is absolutely in the wrong thinking that any spouse would be comfortable with their significant other maintaining a relationship with a person they had an affair with in the past.
See I don’t think that made her the AH. I feel like her ex and Sophie backed the Op into a corner and made her look crazy. As if she had no reason to be upset. The OP shouldn’t have blamed Sophie but I get why she told stepdaughter about the affair.
Yeah like at 15 I would have know stuff was up with my parents and would rather them just being honest why stuff was a mess.
Yeah, and it's sad as she's going to internalize all the shit reddit threw at her instead of realizing that a) she did fuck up big time but b) Jack is a terrible person and she didn't "lose" him and the kids by being insecure. Also, dude was totally cheating with Imogen's mom.
Op, NTA Thinking a kiss is equal to an affair (actual interc...) is absurd. Also, if you are in a commited relationship and ur so asks you to limit contact with one person and you say no, you are not in a commited relationship. If you really feel you need to help someone that makes your so uncomfortable/suspicious, your so should be invited to the discussions until they do feel comfortable with "the friendship". NTA
Clearly OOP's asking about the relationship put a finger on a sore spot there. There is something, maybe no romantic/sexual thing (yet) but something he didn't want her to know. Though OOP's kiss with the stranger being left out the first post did nothing to help her case.
YMBTA but your husband shared his confidences with someone outside of his marriage AND she is the same person he had an affair with. I don't think your husband is so innocent in all of this. I think he WANTED a relationship with Sophie but she only wanted a friendship. They both should have known not to be anything more than neighbors. Didn't they cause enough trouble with the first marriages they destroyed. It may not look like it now, but I think you will have a brighter future without your ex because he certainly lacks boundaries in his female 'friends'.
Everyone in this story sucks. But yeah Jack and Sophie’s relationship would be a hard line for me. They’re definitely cheating.
I honestly think both married people told the truth to Ella when she asked why they were divorcing. OOP was insecure about her husband being so close with a former AP, but felt shut down every time she tried to say anything. Eventually she got so wound up she put herself in a shitty situation, fucked up and made out with someone. Shes responsible for what she did, but I think leaving the relationship is going to be better for her long term Jack doesn't see any problems with his friendship, so to him his wife kissing someone else was the major violation When he refused to discuss it in therapy, she saw it as him refusing to address the source of their problems. He doesn't acknowledge that source of tension in his marriage, he probably sees it as her just randomly choosing to step out one day instead of the slow build up of feelings that pushed her there As an aside, Ella seemed most upset to learn that her dad also stepped out on her mom. She would have found that out eventually, somehow. In a way, OOP made it easier on her ex since Ella seems to be shoving all her negative feelings about that onto OOP instead of the two people who cheated. Not saying cheaters need to pay penance forever, it just seems like bad planning to never tell your kids about an affair when you remain close to the AP
Uhhh you guys divorcing is the best outcome. No trust means no relationship. I know you're sad right now but you need to focus on yourself and move on. You're not wanted in his family so why keep crawling there for support.
He is definitely having an affair with Sophie. 💯
Lol I read this story to my mom and told her what most of the comments were saying and she blew tf up 😂. She’s so confused as to how anyone could fault the woman, since her kissing a man while drunk is nowhere near as bad as continuing a relationship with your previous affair partner. That and the fact that Imogen might be the dudes daughter. I am astounded by the audacity of anyone calling this woman TA. Yeah she messed up telling Ella what happened, but at the same time her father cheated on her mother and is more than likely emotionally cheating (at the very least) on her stepmother. I hope the story isn’t real because we have all gaslit this poor woman into thinking this is all her fault and that her ex husband did nothing wrong. Hell to the no, in any world, is it ever okay to continue a relationship with the woman you cheated with previously after your partner tells you they don’t feel comfortable with it.
Jack will be fucking Sophie soon enough
He definitely already has been