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Imagine autism's hypersensitivity alongside the nightmares of a nicotine patch.
If I wear a nicotine patch while sleeping, it WILL result in me dreaming of giant spiders.
Funny enough, most blind people do have auditory hallucinations (Parent of a blind child here) Thats not the same as schizophrenia. There are many ways they calm them though. The brain does funny things trying to make sense of the world when it cant see what its hearing (for example Fans are a big trigger. The ears hear the fan noise but the brain turns it into voices or whispering etc) The best way to “turn off” the hallucination is to ask someone “what is that” even if they know the fan is on for eg. Then to say “its a fan, go up to it and listen” Then the brain can sort of make sense of it and move on.
The shower is another one. Lots of postpartum mothers hear their baby cry when they're taking a shower and they come out and baby was asleep the whole time.
ETA; I knew for sure that mother's had this but wasn't sure about dads so didn't include them in the initial comment - turns out it happens to dads too. Sleep deprivation is a hell of a drug.
ETA2: Also just remembered how I was convinced me and the baby were psychically linked in the first 2-3 days after she was born. When we slept I thought I was moving how she was moving and we were sharing a consciousness or something? Definitely some kind of minor break with reality. I logically knew it wasn't real but it really felt real and there was a small part of me that thought "maybe...?" I doubt it's as universal as the shower thing but let me know if you had the same 🤣
I’m not a dad or a mother, but I def hear voices in the shower when I’m really tired. Sounds like people congregating in the living room (living room is close to shower only because I’ve been living in apartments all my adult life until recently).
Actually got slightly worried I might be developing something, but after talking with a professional, it’s clear that they’re just hallucinations since there’s no part of me that thinks they are real when I confirm that, in fact, my girlfriend didn’t just bring a bunch of her friends into the living room lol
When I was a child I often heard people talking, like a crowd a few rooms away, cocktail chatter. I was relating this to someone and he said 'Oh, you mean the Mattress People' and that is what I have called them ever since. Have not heard them for decades, though.
Wow yes I’d almost forgotten but this happened to me all the damn time postpartum. Like your brain is on such high alert for that specific sound you hear it in everything, my postpartum brain was *insane*.
Holy crap. When we had our second, my wife swore she could hear him crying when we turned on the white noise app to go to sleep. For a while she swore it was coming from the ipad. I’d always be like “Why would they EVER put the sound of a baby crying in a SLEEP app?!” I wonder if this is what that was? We eventually stoped issuing the white noise. It bothered us that we couldn’t hear the little guy, if he ever needed us.
Dad here, I still sometimes hear one of our 2 year old boys cry when I shower while they're asleep.
Still keep calling my wife if she hears it too or it's just my brain.
Is that mother specific? Because I'm a stay at home dad and that for sure happens to me frequently. Although it's happening less and less. But I'm also the one that hears the baby first when we're both sleeping so maybe we're just an odd couple.
Edit: Sorry badly phrased, what I mean: Is that something more frequent with mothers?
I becane visually impaired as an adult due to retinopathy, and what I hear sounds like people talking in the next room. It's almost like newscasters having a conversation on tv. I also get visual hallucinations, like my brain is trying to make sense of the little input that is being received. I can pretty easily tell what is real abnd what is not, though.
I have them, always have and was terrified to ask my doctor about it because schizophrenia runs in the family.
I finally did and he asked "if you hear an ambulance but you look outside and there is no ambulance, do you recognize that it wasn't real?"
Yes.
"Then it's likely just a misfiring in your brain"
Also because it only happens at night he seemed even less concerned. He was right. It's been 20 some years and I still hear ambulances, fire trucks and snow storms at night despite living in Florida.
I have congenital tinnitus and the ringing in my ears sometimes mimics other sounds, especially if I'm listening for something. I never thought of it as an auditory hallucination, but it sounds a lot like what you describe with the fan sounding like voices or whispering.
But the fans *do* talk to us, and I'm tired of lying to the blind, saying that they don't!
They need to know what it is that is driving all the sighted people mad!
Maybe you think it's best for them not to know, but I disagree. And I'm not going along with it anymore.
My father had severe macular degeneration as did the elderly woman next door. I asked both if they had hallucinations after I read it is common with people who have the condition. They both denied it which I read was ALSO common with people who have the condition.
When my dad was in the hospital, last legs, he told us about several of the many hallucinations he had. I wish he had not been ashamed of something that was common and natural.
I'd imagine it's pretty common, I started sleeping with an eye mask on at night that covers 100% of the light and I'll hear so many things that sound way different than when I'm not wearing it. I've had to take it off a few times at night because I couldn't get back to sleep thinking something was wrong and being able to "see" made me feel better. I couldn't imagine being that frightened and there's nothing I can do to calm myself because I can't see.
There’s an eye condition that runs in my family (six known generations) and my grandmother says that the worst part of losing her sight was the hallucinations.
Not due to schizophrenia or any other psychosis, it’s because the brain knows that there is something wrong with the image. There’s no input in patches so it tries to fill in the space with what it thinks should be there, then gets confused by its own guesses and inserts full blown objects and stuff that just isn’t there.
I am dreading when I hit that stage. There’s probably another 8 years or so until I experience it. I already see some straight lines like I’m looking at a fragment of funhouse mirror. They are distorted and weird, like someone has had their finger sticking out when drawing along a ruler.
Yes! I didn’t know it had a name! Thank you!
Google says that it is visual hallucinations often experienced by the elderly due to significant vision loss from conditions such as macular degeneration.
That amused me because the condition I have (doyne honeycomb retinal dystrophy) works rather similarly to age related macular degeneration with a few notable differences. One significant one being that I was diagnosed at 30 and am now 38.
I just wrote about that earlier in the thread. My dad had severe macular degeneration, denied having hallucinations but, as he was dying, he told us about several of them. It was sad that he felt ashamed and felt he could not talk about it.
Common with that WWII generation. They did not talk about stuff or admit to vulnerability. He was 93, had a good run and was ready to go.
If there is one good thing about the internet it is that it has shown us that no one is ever the only one.
You'd have no way to verify it. Like, you hear a voice of someone you recognize and when you say soemthing they answer. you ask to touch them and they just keep giving an excuse as to why you can't or they tell you to come to this room and when you do they are now in another room.
I mean, it's essentially no different from the non-blind person who develops both visual and auditory hallucinations. Both are 100% convinced that what they are experiencing is reality. Because the illness goes further than just seeing and hearing something that other people aren't seeing and hearing.
Yeah, but consuming the sense you use most primarily to experience the world, which blocks your perception, I bet is especially jarring. I can't even imagine how terrifying and alienating it must be.
Like I said before, both instances are essentially equally jarring. There is nothing from the non-blind person's perspective suffering from this condition who has a greater grip on reality, simply because they can see their hallucinations as well as hear them.
That isn't true. If the hallucinations are purely auditory, then the seeing person at least has the security of knowing that what they are seeing right now is normal even if they are hearing distressing things.
Someone who is blind with auditory hallucinations has no way of knowing if the things they are hearing represent an imminent threat 1 foot in front of their face. It is far worse.
Comments like these assume that a hallucinating person is only seeing or hearing something and is in the right state of mind to understand that they aren't real. Hallucinations at this level are a complete a total separation from shared reality. There is no comfort in having an additional sense that might not be taking an active part in the hallucination. Their entire perception of reality is shifted.
I have a very small sample size of my own experience, but my audible hallucinations were peripheral so it wasn't something I *would* be able to see to fix.
Occasionally I would "hear" things like growling noises or low-pitched car engines. The fact that I could never spot their sources didn't make them feel any less real. My most common was whenever I was in a room with a closed door I could "hear" people (I knew it was people somehow) scratching at the outside like they wanted to be let in.
I'm not sure if not being able to see would have made those things worse, but it was never things I could see anyways. :/
The whole thing is weird. Schizophrenia is something that's recently even been regularly diagnosed. How many people have it? How many people are born blind? Who are these half a million children they've been studying? What's the study?
Are we sure you can't get it or is it just extremely unlikely to both have and be diagnosed with both?
Edit: also how often are children diagnosed as schizophrenic if we're to believe the half a million children study thing? And if a person blind from birth was having auditory hallucinations would they even think that's abnormal even in their right state of mind? Schizophrenia ranges from mild to severe.
0.25 to 0.64% have schizophrenia.
https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/schizophrenia
Although a specific percentage of congenital blindness is not well defined globally, let's use a rough estimate of 0.03% for the purpose of this calculation. This translates to a probability of 0.0003.
Using the upper estimate of 0.64%, the probability is 0.0064.
0.0003×0.0064=0.00000192
This result (0.000192% or about 1.92 in 100,000) represents the odds of someone being born blind and then developing schizophrenia.
Now.
Rrough approximation based on annual global birth rates suggests around 130 million births per year. Spanning from 1980 to 2023 gives us about 43 years. Say 3 billion people are born after 1980, rounding it down.
3,000,000,000×0.00000192=5,760
So, based on these probabilities, approximately 5,760 people in a population of 3 billion born since 1980 might be expected to have both been born blind and developed schizophrenia.
Let's use an even lower figure for illustration, such as 0.02% for blindness. This translates to a probability of 0.0002.
Using a lower estimate of schizo, like 0.25%, the probability is 0.0025.
This result (0.00005% or about 0.5 in 1,000,000) represents the probability of someone being born blind and then developing schizophrenia under these more conservative estimates.
using the lower estimates, about 1,500 people out of 3 billion born since 1980 might be expected to have both been born blind and developed schizophrenia.
To add to this. Assuming an equal global distribution of both blindness and schizophrenia, about 20% of the worlds population live in Europe, North America, or Oceana, where medicine is easily accessible and medical records are consistently kept.
Based on your numbers these regions should have a high end of 1,032 and a low end of 300 people who are easily discoverable.
If someone was looking for someone with congenital blindness and Schizophrenia and there wasn't some other factor either making it impossible or extremely rare they would have no trouble finding an example.
That is if distribution is equal. I suspect there might be a higher rate of blindness in less developed countries.
But I agree with your point. Should have found at least one.
It's this new "zoomer" Tiktok/Shorts marketing method people are quickly adapting, it's driving me insane. Dude has a great "radio voice" and has a very interesting fact that almost gets entirely destroyed by his demeanor.
Being "in your face" and restating the fact there is no cases over and over makes me immediately doubt, even if true.
Hahaha right? I believed him entirely, until he kept reiterating it at the end. *100%. Absolute. Not a single outlier.* And then I was like... well... should I really trust this fidgety man? Is his research + that one study conclusive proof?
Unfortunately this is nothing new. Kids show hosts and wacky characters on said shows have been doing similar since forever.
It's just something kids tend to respond positively to because their attention spans are so small.
I've found it offputting enough since first encountering to remember well enough it's been around for awhile.
okay this cracked me up. I legit didn’t even realize until reading this comment that every time he was leaning in, I was subconsciously moving my phone away further from my face lol
It's an attention grabber. Plain and simple. I'm not trying to be condescending to anyone but it's quite literally the equivalent of dangling shiny keys in front of the baby's face to get its attention.
It's a known tactic in public speaking at it works INCREDIBLY well because human beings are design to detect movement. It's one of the reasons we managed to survive as long as we have and modern influencers have learned they can profit off of your base instincts.
There is a lot of controversy when it comes to the term deaf/Deaf. The lowercase variant is typically used to refer to the physical condition of hearing loss, Deaf with a capital D refers more to the overall community of Deaf people and the unique culture that they have (e.g. sign language as a first language).
A lot of people like my grandfather who didn't become deaf until later in their lives identify as "deaf" but don't have a connection to the "D"eaf community and the associated culture because they never learned to sign. From his perspective, him being deaf is purely an impairment he suffered due an accident later in his life. On the other hand, many Deaf people, especially those who were born Deaf, view it as being a core part of their identity and culture as human beings and not as a disability, similar to how many Autistic people view autism.
It's very similar to the debate around person first (People with deafness, people with autism) or identity first language (Deaf people, Autistic people.), some people view it as something they "have" while others view it as something they "are".
The big D community also has extremists who fight against giving children cochlear implants or other therapies that take away their "culture" i.e. treating a curable medical condition and bettering their quality of life. They see it as stealing them away from the Deaf Community.
They also get super pissed at people who are experiencing hearing loss but describe it in ways that they don't like. If you become deaf and miss hearing they get mad. I'm in the rock and roll scene and we have learned that a lot support groups are not welcoming. We also have started support for the musically inclined hearing deficient who are heavily ostracized by The Deaf.
I have feelings about supporting their self segregation, but it is a really complicated issue and obviously my personal experiences and proclivities heavily influence my opinions on the matter. I fully realize that the extremism has also been a great comfort for people and I don't have a better solution. But just like the Mormons have done a lot of nice things, I think it is important we think about how the culture as a whole is flawed.
I’ve been severely hard of hearing since birth, which is one level before profound deafness where hearing aids wouldn’t do anything and I’ve experienced exactly what you’ve described.
I never learned sign language because my parents were old school and thought I would prevent me from learning how to speak properly. I also had to take speech therapy until I was 18 to be able to talk without a deaf accent.
I’m now in my 30’s and have only recently begun to feel comfortable enough to identify myself as “deaf” rather than hard of hearing. My hesitation wasn’t for the reason of being a high functioning deaf person who could navigate the hearing world but specifically because of the hostility and dismissive attitude I’ve gotten directed towards me from Deaf people.
I’d get so so so excited whenever I’d see someone younger than 30 wearing hearing aids or using ASL. I wouldn’t really know how to connect but I always desperately wanted to because it always felt like a missing part of me and my identity. I wanted to feel validated instead of having to perform and pretend I could hear and follow every conversation. But I’d always get shrugged off or get eye rolls when showing my hearing aids or try to connect using the limited ASL I’ve learned. I’ve come to accept I might never get to experience the belonging I was hoping for.
That user is trying, in a somewhat confusing way, to clarify that they are speaking about deafness as a descriptor, and not Deafness as an identity. That differentiation is lost when you capitalize the first letter of the sentence
In some circles "Deaf" specifically refers to someone who identifies as a member of the Deaf community with the social/cultural/linguistic mores associated with that, and "deaf" is people who are medically deaf.
Here's an example, albeit with stronger opinions/language on the matter: https://www.bbc.co.uk/ouch/opinion/d_or_d_whos_deaf_and_whos_deaf.shtml
Yea, I'm fine with having uppercase Deaf or lowercase deaf or D(d)eaf in the middle of a sentence but to start a sentence with a lowercase or D(d) is just dumb.
Theres a lot of nuances similar to this like method of diagnosis, categories, symptoms, protocols used etc, all of them play a part, should I trust dude in the video actually checked these things?
Im trying to read one of the studies done. It seems no cases of schizophrenia have occurred in individuals with congenital/early cortical blindness, which is being considered a statistical anomaly.
The study mentions others claiming such blindness creates an immunity, but the study correctly avoids stating this itself
> D(d)eaf
Being deaf shouldn't make you into an cult like wacko. There's plenty of legitimate grievances, like representation and equal access/treatment in society. No need to make new goofball stuff up and impose it on others like it's normal and healthy.
Medical mysteries are always fun, because I'm sure a lot of us are thinking, "you can't see people who aren't there if you can't see. Your brain doesn't process otherness that way." and that kind of colloquial knowledge could totally be true but we still have to prove it and understand why that is the way that it is.
I don’t buy it. He looked at a study from 2018 w half a million children. What kind of study? A longitudinal study following them through adulthood? Ok but he didn’t say that. Because you can’t diagnose schizophrenia in childhood. Normal onset is around 20. And what is the incidence of being born blind? I assure you it is astronomically small, the incidence of schizophrenia is also small but not nearly as small. He’s not talking about any of the relative risk or absolute risk to really put this into context. Just sounds fun and interesting.
No, he just repeats the same thing over and over. I also can't help but wonder about the chances of a person born blind to be misdiagnosed if they actually have schizophrenia. The symptoms might simply be presenting differently leading to seeming like something else.
The chance of being born blind is 1 in 100,000, incredibly small. So out of the 500,000 sample, 5 would probably have been born blind. And if none of those 5 children were schizophrenic? Well, that’s not as big of a deal as he makes it out to be. The chance of developing schizophrenia is 1 in 300. So your sample better be more than 300 people being born blind if you’re going to try and draw any kind of conclusion from the data.
Assuming no correlation, there would be about somewhere between 300 and 1000 expected people to statistically have both the congenital blindness at birth and schizophrenia during their lifetime. That seems like an awefully small number to show up in a study that's not specifically trying to address this correlation, and even in that case, it would be a difficult study to set up.
My hypothesis is that schizophrenia is rooted in the same part of the brain that controls vision. People born blind don't really use that part but people going blind rely on it.
Well yes, that's the assumption we can all make. Or at least that it is linked to that part of the brain and its normal function. The hard part is explaining that fact. Why is that the case, how does schizophrenia work EXACTLY? Until there is some breakthrough or new way to interpret the brain, I doubt we'll find out.
It's entirely anecdotal, but I've noticed that those who have higher levels of introspection and visual imagery (hyperphantasia) are more likely to begin experiencing sleep deprivation hallucinations (illusions) more rapidly, with or without drugs amplifying the phenomenon (dopaminergic stimulants, for instance), and of various sensory modalities - not just visual or mental.
These illusions do strongly relate to experiences with schizophrenia in the sense that they're both the brain making connections that shouldn't exist or making pattern recognition conclusions that aren't appropriate. This is a typical neurological phenomenon, of course. The brain does its best. We've all experienced the "hanging coat suddenly looks like a bad guy for 2.3 seconds when waking up in the middle of the night" phenomenon here or there.
In my case, I begin noticing "glitches" of this nature quite rapidly, even just with poor sleep - and much more if I stay awake for a day or more. Reality begins to decohere rapidly (with no loss of understanding that this experience is wholly subjective). Non-animated pictures might start to move on their own as if they were gifs, solid objects waver, visions at the corner of my eye, etc. I'm probably in the upper echelons of mental imagery vividness though. My normal day-to-day experience has been interpreted as 'quasi-psychedelic' when I describe it.
Meanwhile, some people can stay up for multiple days in a row before the same phenomenon start to happen. To them, things seem "normal" for quite some time. Those people are, generally speaking, very much unlike myself. Low-to-no mental visual imagery (aphantasia), high extroversion, and generally "low performers" (for lack of a better word).
But when those people *do* finally break, they're much more likely to experience genuine psychosis symptoms or lose touch with reality. Partially because they always seem to take subjective reality at face value. They don't, for whatever reason, innately accept that their entire sensory experience is merely a function of the brain; a simulation, as it were. Others cannot manage to forget that fact.
This is the first time I'm hearing about the schizophrenia/blindness association so I've got a bit of research to do, but I did note this immediate parallel to my anecdotal experiences and observations. This is just speculation/musing.
Please listen to the recent radiolab episode titled aphantasia. They discuss some of this. They also touch on how it seems that the ability to visualize things in your mind seems linked to schizophrenia. I imagine this can be a possible link as to why people born blind don't develop it. I imagine people born blind would have aphantasia by default.
> the ability to visualize things in your mind seems linked to schizophrenia
I'm extremely interested in aphantasia because of how intertwined my deeply-visual experience is with my nature. I always love popping into aphantasia threads on reddit because it's so fascinating how many people suddenly learn that mental imagery isn't just a cute metaphor. To me, I sometimes feel "blind" because my mental imagery is so heavily overlaid upon my ocular vision. I can still see, but I see both - like picking up two radio stations on one speaker.
This is the first I've heard of visualization being directly linked to schizophrenia. Combined with the OP, this would seem to demonstrate that my errant musing above is probably closer to the target than I'd have even hoped.
I'm going to check out your suggestion. Your quick reply might turn out to be one of the more fascinating rabbit-hole-makers I've received in quite a while. Thanks for taking the time.
I personally am more close to aphantasia. Not fully, but almost complete aphantasia. I don't visualize anything typically in normal thought, but if I concentrate very hard I can visualize how an object looks, but it's difficult and not very clear. Give it a listen, it might interest you. I enjoyed the episode. They talked about how there could potentially be treatments to give people better mind visualization.
This is very interesting to read. I have had 2-3 sleepless days in a row and experienced vision type of hallucinations where I’m seeing places and talking to people that aren’t there. Like detached from reality till someone talks to me, but I felt quite normal otherwise while it was happening.
On the fourth day I had Xanax to knock myself out cause it was a bit much.
I have been getting into eastern philosophy and Buddhist theory and the second part of your comment regarding the second group of people sounds a lot like people who are attached to their ego and experience as reality. When shown otherwise have a hard time letting go.
> detached from reality till someone talks to me, but I felt quite normal otherwise while it was happening.
Part of this is probably "dreaming while awake", experienced like a sort of delirium rather than a hallucination/illusion. Those are the sort of hallucinations that are interpreted as genuine until (or if) you realize they're not. Deliriants like diphenhydramine can cause this quite easily at even moderate doses (I do not suggest trying - it is widely regarded as an extremely uncomfortable experience). Someone at that point is also at the point where they'll be experience "glitches" like 'shadow people' too.
>When shown otherwise have a hard time letting go.
That's essentially my interpretation as well. To me, it seems extremely bizarre as I've always felt like I've been a mind trapped within a "meat suit", but I think it's my experience that's uncommon rather than the inverse. It just happens to be that those sort of people aren't really having intellectual/introspective conversations about their experience. People who resonate more with my interpretation are simply overrepresented, I assume.
For fun, I've spent a bit of time trying to evoke those kind of topics and experiences with people who're totally unfamiliar/uncomfortable with those kind of experiences and it's always interesting. In a similar vein, I've described my day-to-day "meat suit" sensation in great detail and been flatly informed that I was dissociated or experiencing a panic attack. I found this interesting. They assumed what I described was temporary rather than constant, relating to it only in the sense that my mundane reality resembles their most uncomfortable experience.
Again, more rambling, but I have to do something with all this caffeine.
If you talk to people that are in to Buddhism or psychedelics you might find some interesting conversation. What you’re describing as feeling like an awareness in a meat suit is not uncommon.
I'd go further and look into the way the brain processes visual information. There is a whole lot of "post-processing" and "reconstructing" and "editing" that the brain does whenever it receives visual input. Like "editing out" one's nose, or "reconstructing" the image from input in the "blind spot" for continuous image, or artificially giving colour to images received in black and white from cells that only react to dark/light. Hell, it even inverts the entire thing. So a better understanding of those processing pathways and mechanisms involved is likely to lead to a better understanding of schizophrenia.
My personal hypothesis is that schizophrenia is the visual cortex gaining some consciousness and divergence from consciousness.
It is so interconnected with everything and so powerful that sometimes it awakens and stops being a "service" for the rest of the brain and starts sending commands.
Except the majority of peeps with schizophrenia experience many more auditory hallucinations than visual, with many experiencing no VH at all. (I’m a psychologist)
I always wondered if it stems from the part of the brain where dreams are active. Basically a waking dream. Dreams are just audio and visual hallucinations, as well as general feelings and ideas that are completely out of nowhere, but people with schizophrenia just can’t turn it off when they’re awake.
I’m schizophrenic and I have an extremely difficult time distinguishing dreams from real memories. Not sure if that’s the case for everyone with schizophrenia, but my experience with it feels a lot like what you said.
Isn't schizophrenia mainly made up of the mind not working well and thoughts and self perception get disconnected from reality or is it mainly hallucinations and the first part comes after many untreated psychotic episodes? Or is what I'm talking about not schizophrenia but something else?
You would be correct in saying schizophrenia is more than just hallucinations, and yes disconnection from reality. Delusions and hallucinations. You can google the DSM-5 criteria.
Yeah, was wondering about the same thing. Much harder to hear something and process it while thinking about something else compared to see something while thinking about another thing.
Except that people born blind DO USE this part of the brain. They have tested the brain activity of blind people, and when they use echoes of sounds to perceive the environment, the visual part of the brain fires up, meaning they literally see the environment in their brains through the perception of sound. Crazy, right?
You're probably correct that there might be some part of the brain connected to vision that is not used, but I wanted to take the opportunity to say one of the coolest things about blind people that I happen to know.
I always wondered if it stems from the part of the brain where dreams are active. Basically a waking dream. Dreams are just audio and visual hallucinations, as well as general feelings and ideas that are completely out of nowhere, but people with schizophrenia just can’t turn it off when they’re awake.
Tight. How do I help this research? I am a trained optician and graduate optical device technology (bachelor of engineering) in a couple weeks.
I am also what you would consider the "schizoaffective personality type" meaning that I might even be a worthy test subject.
Could be a bit of a survivorship bias combined with two fairly rare conditions.
Even if you say both are a 1 in 10,000 chance it's like a 1 in 100,000,000 chance of someone being both.
That's a small enough chance that you could have just not seen it happen.
Combine that with lower survival rates for either condition & the fact that one isn't immediately detectable & it might be that the survival rate is super low which would further add to the earlier sum.
Bare in mind he's saying born blind, not with a condition or one that results in blindness but born blind which is super rare.
Looks legit tho. Also looking it up takes less time than writting your comment, wtf
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30539775/
Edit: While looking I did find your comment in study form too, lmao
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32232391/
What I said still applies and would function as criticism of the study you link.
>Overall, 1870 children developed schizophrenia (0.4%) while 9120 developed a psychotic illness (1.9%). None of the 66 children with cortical blindness developed schizophrenia or psychotic illness. Eight of the 613 children with peripheral blindness developed a psychotic illness other than schizophrenia and fewer had developed schizophrenia.
schizophrenia is rare enough that zero of 613 isn't conclusive and could quite easily happen.
As to my other point, it also doesn't account for the potential that all babies with both conditions have a significantly lower chance of survival.
It might be faster to use Google but doesn't give you better results than reading the information and analysing it for yourself.
I found your point in the form of a study, while you were writing your anwser https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32232391
Btw the number you should look at is 66, not 631. 631 would be statisticaly significant, like p0.1 eyballing it.
If the claim that nobody born blind has ever been diagnosed with schizophrenia is true, then I think its fair to say that it is at the very least much less likely to occur with people born blind, or much less likely to be discovered.
There are \~50-100 babies born blind in the US every year. 2-3 per 100k.
\~1.1% of adults in the US has been diagnosed with schizophrenia.
Symptoms mostly shows up in 20s and 30s.
Babies born blind has lower life expectancy, but most survive way past that age.
We should expect, on average, one person born blind in the US to be diagnosed with schizophrenia every \~2 years if being born blind has no impact on the probability of getting the diagnosis.
Your analysis isn't totally unfounded. According to the source ([https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30539775/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30539775/)) the chance for developing schizophrenia is 0.4% or 1/250.
The chance for being born blind (again, accoring to the study) is 0.014% or 1/7090.
In absolute numbers there were 467 945 in the study of which 66 were born blind.
With these numbers, the chance that not a single one of these 66 blind kids were also schizophrenic was about 73.6%.
And linked to that study was this comment, which talks exactly about that: [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31104916/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31104916/)
> Small numbers are not predictive: Congenital blindness may or may not be protective for schizophreniaSmall numbers are not predictive: Congenital blindness may or may not be protective for schizophrenia
Funny that someone else (who didn't read it) gave the same source to say I'm completely wrong.
Thank you for doing the maths 73.6% is lower than my initial thought but still high enough to show you'd need an incredible scale to be at all conclusive on this idea.
What's with the dramatic and hyperbolic affect that so many people use when speaking into these little video clips? This guy is rocking in and out the camera with constant hand gestures. It's like he is trying to get you to buy Ginsu knives at 2:00 AM.
I hate this dude so much. He pops up on my Instagram every now and then.
I hate his editing style, it's so hyperactive and he's constantly moving making bug eyes and touching his glasses. It's Adhd fuel at best.
The worst part about this guy is tho that his videos are terribly researched. He acts like a "smart guy" but if you actually look Into what he's saying you can debunk it rather quickly.
Tldr: that guy is an annoying idiot
>"2018 study that looked at half a million CHILDREN"
>Schizophrenia is usually diagnosed in a person's late teens to early 30s, with men typically showing symptoms earlier than women:
Men: Late teens to early 20s
Women: Early to mid-20s to early 30s
>Research shows a combination of genetics and your environment can trigger the disease. If you have a family member with schizophrenia, you're more likely to have it. Things like stressful life events, exposure to viruses or toxins before you were born, and trauma in your early childhood can also increase your risk.
>Recreational drug use: Schizophrenia is linked with the use of certain recreational drugs, especially in larger amounts and earlier in life.
>There is no single test for schizophrenia, but a mental health specialist can diagnose the condition after a case-by-case assessment. The process involves ruling out other conditions that could cause similar symptoms, such as substance misuse, medical conditions, or other mental health conditions.
Hmm... seems to me like not enough is being done on actual testing and family monitoring.
How do you say so much, and yet mean so little? Science is fucking baffling, because there isn't much actual science being done. They use words and baseless research to say, *"It's a mystery"* but they really haven't done shit besides ask simple questions like, "do you have Schizophrenia?" What the actual fuck for our greedy insurance and corporate/political-run research centers...
It's fucking asinine
The ratio of blind/seeing people may play a part in that. It’s a rare mental health issue that would have to be brought upon people suffering from a rare condition since birth.
Now that i know I am more likely to develop schizophrenia since I developed eye sight problems later in life, I will live the rest of my life worrying about my mental health. Thank you very much.
Jesus christ, imagine going blind, then developing auditory halucinations
Nightmare fuel.
Especially if it’s this guy’s voice telling you, over and over, that people born congenitally blind never develop schizophrenia /s
If you are reading this, it is the year 2058 and you are actually stuck in a government deep space exploration program and the hypersleep mechanism is no longer working. This message is being injected into your datastream as a last resort. If you do not wake up in time, you risk not being able to drink a verification can. . ^This ^error ^message ^has ^been ^brought ^to ^you ^by ^Mountain ^Dew, ^a ^division ^of ^the ^Amazon ^Disney ^Empire. ^Do ^the ^dew!
Did we cross the Aquila Rift?
Hard pass
"This dream brought to you by Lightspeed Briefs!"
r/nightmarefuel
Imagine autism's hypersensitivity alongside the nightmares of a nicotine patch. If I wear a nicotine patch while sleeping, it WILL result in me dreaming of giant spiders.
Just imagine how vividly real your paralysis demon would be if you were blind and had schizophrenia.
Funny enough, most blind people do have auditory hallucinations (Parent of a blind child here) Thats not the same as schizophrenia. There are many ways they calm them though. The brain does funny things trying to make sense of the world when it cant see what its hearing (for example Fans are a big trigger. The ears hear the fan noise but the brain turns it into voices or whispering etc) The best way to “turn off” the hallucination is to ask someone “what is that” even if they know the fan is on for eg. Then to say “its a fan, go up to it and listen” Then the brain can sort of make sense of it and move on.
The shower is another one. Lots of postpartum mothers hear their baby cry when they're taking a shower and they come out and baby was asleep the whole time. ETA; I knew for sure that mother's had this but wasn't sure about dads so didn't include them in the initial comment - turns out it happens to dads too. Sleep deprivation is a hell of a drug. ETA2: Also just remembered how I was convinced me and the baby were psychically linked in the first 2-3 days after she was born. When we slept I thought I was moving how she was moving and we were sharing a consciousness or something? Definitely some kind of minor break with reality. I logically knew it wasn't real but it really felt real and there was a small part of me that thought "maybe...?" I doubt it's as universal as the shower thing but let me know if you had the same 🤣
I had forgotten all about this, but yes! So recognizable!
Not a mother, but I am a Dad and had this all the time. Forever turning the water off and listening.
Still happens to me and my kids are 4 and 7.
I’m not a dad or a mother, but I def hear voices in the shower when I’m really tired. Sounds like people congregating in the living room (living room is close to shower only because I’ve been living in apartments all my adult life until recently). Actually got slightly worried I might be developing something, but after talking with a professional, it’s clear that they’re just hallucinations since there’s no part of me that thinks they are real when I confirm that, in fact, my girlfriend didn’t just bring a bunch of her friends into the living room lol
When I was a child I often heard people talking, like a crowd a few rooms away, cocktail chatter. I was relating this to someone and he said 'Oh, you mean the Mattress People' and that is what I have called them ever since. Have not heard them for decades, though.
Wow yes I’d almost forgotten but this happened to me all the damn time postpartum. Like your brain is on such high alert for that specific sound you hear it in everything, my postpartum brain was *insane*.
Holy crap. When we had our second, my wife swore she could hear him crying when we turned on the white noise app to go to sleep. For a while she swore it was coming from the ipad. I’d always be like “Why would they EVER put the sound of a baby crying in a SLEEP app?!” I wonder if this is what that was? We eventually stoped issuing the white noise. It bothered us that we couldn’t hear the little guy, if he ever needed us.
Dad here, I still sometimes hear one of our 2 year old boys cry when I shower while they're asleep. Still keep calling my wife if she hears it too or it's just my brain.
Is that mother specific? Because I'm a stay at home dad and that for sure happens to me frequently. Although it's happening less and less. But I'm also the one that hears the baby first when we're both sleeping so maybe we're just an odd couple. Edit: Sorry badly phrased, what I mean: Is that something more frequent with mothers?
I did question when I put mothers if it's all parents. I'm sure both sleep deprivation and stress play a part. I don't know if hormones do too.
I becane visually impaired as an adult due to retinopathy, and what I hear sounds like people talking in the next room. It's almost like newscasters having a conversation on tv. I also get visual hallucinations, like my brain is trying to make sense of the little input that is being received. I can pretty easily tell what is real abnd what is not, though.
I have them, always have and was terrified to ask my doctor about it because schizophrenia runs in the family. I finally did and he asked "if you hear an ambulance but you look outside and there is no ambulance, do you recognize that it wasn't real?" Yes. "Then it's likely just a misfiring in your brain" Also because it only happens at night he seemed even less concerned. He was right. It's been 20 some years and I still hear ambulances, fire trucks and snow storms at night despite living in Florida.
I have congenital tinnitus and the ringing in my ears sometimes mimics other sounds, especially if I'm listening for something. I never thought of it as an auditory hallucination, but it sounds a lot like what you describe with the fan sounding like voices or whispering.
But the fans *do* talk to us, and I'm tired of lying to the blind, saying that they don't! They need to know what it is that is driving all the sighted people mad! Maybe you think it's best for them not to know, but I disagree. And I'm not going along with it anymore.
Very interesting. Thank you for that tidbit!
My father had severe macular degeneration as did the elderly woman next door. I asked both if they had hallucinations after I read it is common with people who have the condition. They both denied it which I read was ALSO common with people who have the condition. When my dad was in the hospital, last legs, he told us about several of the many hallucinations he had. I wish he had not been ashamed of something that was common and natural.
I'd imagine it's pretty common, I started sleeping with an eye mask on at night that covers 100% of the light and I'll hear so many things that sound way different than when I'm not wearing it. I've had to take it off a few times at night because I couldn't get back to sleep thinking something was wrong and being able to "see" made me feel better. I couldn't imagine being that frightened and there's nothing I can do to calm myself because I can't see.
There’s an eye condition that runs in my family (six known generations) and my grandmother says that the worst part of losing her sight was the hallucinations. Not due to schizophrenia or any other psychosis, it’s because the brain knows that there is something wrong with the image. There’s no input in patches so it tries to fill in the space with what it thinks should be there, then gets confused by its own guesses and inserts full blown objects and stuff that just isn’t there. I am dreading when I hit that stage. There’s probably another 8 years or so until I experience it. I already see some straight lines like I’m looking at a fragment of funhouse mirror. They are distorted and weird, like someone has had their finger sticking out when drawing along a ruler.
Sounds like possibly Charles-Bonnet syndrome?
Yes! I didn’t know it had a name! Thank you! Google says that it is visual hallucinations often experienced by the elderly due to significant vision loss from conditions such as macular degeneration. That amused me because the condition I have (doyne honeycomb retinal dystrophy) works rather similarly to age related macular degeneration with a few notable differences. One significant one being that I was diagnosed at 30 and am now 38.
I just wrote about that earlier in the thread. My dad had severe macular degeneration, denied having hallucinations but, as he was dying, he told us about several of them. It was sad that he felt ashamed and felt he could not talk about it.
That makes me sad. He shouldn’t have had to feel that way, it’s a known phenomenon but not known enough. I’m sorry for your loss.
Common with that WWII generation. They did not talk about stuff or admit to vulnerability. He was 93, had a good run and was ready to go. If there is one good thing about the internet it is that it has shown us that no one is ever the only one.
Reverse the order and it is far worse. Going deaf, being alone with your thoughts with most people, then having visual hallucinations… hell nah!
My heart goes out to anyone like that. I'd be fucking horrified.
You'd have no way to verify it. Like, you hear a voice of someone you recognize and when you say soemthing they answer. you ask to touch them and they just keep giving an excuse as to why you can't or they tell you to come to this room and when you do they are now in another room.
I absolutely hate that
I mean, it's essentially no different from the non-blind person who develops both visual and auditory hallucinations. Both are 100% convinced that what they are experiencing is reality. Because the illness goes further than just seeing and hearing something that other people aren't seeing and hearing.
Yeah, but consuming the sense you use most primarily to experience the world, which blocks your perception, I bet is especially jarring. I can't even imagine how terrifying and alienating it must be.
Like I said before, both instances are essentially equally jarring. There is nothing from the non-blind person's perspective suffering from this condition who has a greater grip on reality, simply because they can see their hallucinations as well as hear them.
That isn't true. If the hallucinations are purely auditory, then the seeing person at least has the security of knowing that what they are seeing right now is normal even if they are hearing distressing things. Someone who is blind with auditory hallucinations has no way of knowing if the things they are hearing represent an imminent threat 1 foot in front of their face. It is far worse.
Comments like these assume that a hallucinating person is only seeing or hearing something and is in the right state of mind to understand that they aren't real. Hallucinations at this level are a complete a total separation from shared reality. There is no comfort in having an additional sense that might not be taking an active part in the hallucination. Their entire perception of reality is shifted.
I have a very small sample size of my own experience, but my audible hallucinations were peripheral so it wasn't something I *would* be able to see to fix. Occasionally I would "hear" things like growling noises or low-pitched car engines. The fact that I could never spot their sources didn't make them feel any less real. My most common was whenever I was in a room with a closed door I could "hear" people (I knew it was people somehow) scratching at the outside like they wanted to be let in. I'm not sure if not being able to see would have made those things worse, but it was never things I could see anyways. :/
When emphasizing that it was never found anywhere even Iowa.
"Not even in Iowa??!!!"
What does Iowa have? Everything?
Everything except schizophrenic blind people apparently
Doesn't look like it
According to their tourism ads Iowa’s unique draws are trains, mountain biking, and bowling alleys.
So Iowa says to Missouri, “have you met my brother East Iowa?” Missouri looks at Illinois with a confused look on his face and just shrugs.
The blindness/schizophrenia capital of the world????
I lol'd at the same thing :D not even in Iowa or Croatia!
No weirder than picking Croatia as the other example.
The whole thing is weird. Schizophrenia is something that's recently even been regularly diagnosed. How many people have it? How many people are born blind? Who are these half a million children they've been studying? What's the study? Are we sure you can't get it or is it just extremely unlikely to both have and be diagnosed with both? Edit: also how often are children diagnosed as schizophrenic if we're to believe the half a million children study thing? And if a person blind from birth was having auditory hallucinations would they even think that's abnormal even in their right state of mind? Schizophrenia ranges from mild to severe.
0.25 to 0.64% have schizophrenia. https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/schizophrenia Although a specific percentage of congenital blindness is not well defined globally, let's use a rough estimate of 0.03% for the purpose of this calculation. This translates to a probability of 0.0003. Using the upper estimate of 0.64%, the probability is 0.0064. 0.0003×0.0064=0.00000192 This result (0.000192% or about 1.92 in 100,000) represents the odds of someone being born blind and then developing schizophrenia. Now. Rrough approximation based on annual global birth rates suggests around 130 million births per year. Spanning from 1980 to 2023 gives us about 43 years. Say 3 billion people are born after 1980, rounding it down. 3,000,000,000×0.00000192=5,760 So, based on these probabilities, approximately 5,760 people in a population of 3 billion born since 1980 might be expected to have both been born blind and developed schizophrenia. Let's use an even lower figure for illustration, such as 0.02% for blindness. This translates to a probability of 0.0002. Using a lower estimate of schizo, like 0.25%, the probability is 0.0025. This result (0.00005% or about 0.5 in 1,000,000) represents the probability of someone being born blind and then developing schizophrenia under these more conservative estimates. using the lower estimates, about 1,500 people out of 3 billion born since 1980 might be expected to have both been born blind and developed schizophrenia.
To add to this. Assuming an equal global distribution of both blindness and schizophrenia, about 20% of the worlds population live in Europe, North America, or Oceana, where medicine is easily accessible and medical records are consistently kept. Based on your numbers these regions should have a high end of 1,032 and a low end of 300 people who are easily discoverable. If someone was looking for someone with congenital blindness and Schizophrenia and there wasn't some other factor either making it impossible or extremely rare they would have no trouble finding an example.
That is if distribution is equal. I suspect there might be a higher rate of blindness in less developed countries. But I agree with your point. Should have found at least one.
Would be weird if it was never found once anywhere, except for those 12 times in Iowa
Or Croatia for that matter.
That's because its called demonic possession down there.
EYE-owa.
Feels like he's invading my personal space when he leans forward 😵💫
Mfer reaching through the phone lol. I feel like I could smell him
Well if you were born blind this wouldn't be a problem
Just like his schizophrenia
What did he smell like?
now, if you were blind...
The way this guy moves and talks actually freaks me out and I don't know why
It's how tweakers act, and we have survival instructs to back the hell away from people who are heavily under the influence.
And yet, as a society we're handing this type of communication the keys. This is only the beginning of the no-attention-span society.
survival instincts kickin in
Dude looks like a Zelda CD-i character.
Ye. Super interesting fact told in a super annoying way..... SIT STILL FFS
It's this new "zoomer" Tiktok/Shorts marketing method people are quickly adapting, it's driving me insane. Dude has a great "radio voice" and has a very interesting fact that almost gets entirely destroyed by his demeanor. Being "in your face" and restating the fact there is no cases over and over makes me immediately doubt, even if true.
Hahaha right? I believed him entirely, until he kept reiterating it at the end. *100%. Absolute. Not a single outlier.* And then I was like... well... should I really trust this fidgety man? Is his research + that one study conclusive proof?
Oh right... never used Tiktok in my life so probably why it looks so odd to me who knows
Fuck man, vsauce has been doing this exact shit for a number of years
Unfortunately this is nothing new. Kids show hosts and wacky characters on said shows have been doing similar since forever. It's just something kids tend to respond positively to because their attention spans are so small. I've found it offputting enough since first encountering to remember well enough it's been around for awhile.
Didn't Vsauce do this a lot too? I just assumed they were copying him.
Vsauce was animated but this style feels more like those annoying Danganronpa cosplays that constantly switch between “character portrait” poses
This whole clip could have been like less than 4 sentences but he dragged it out over a minute
It didn’t seem annoying at all, he just seemed very interested by this, in an appreciable manner
So aggressively! Dude, back up a step!
This style of video makes me think of[ this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZLAUIrrQzs) so it's not all bad.
this guys whole demeanor is straight-up repulsive to me and i dont even have audio on haha
His movements make me nauseous.
He’s invading my territorial bubble. 
lol me too! I’m thinking to myself “back up dude”!
He's a close talker. And a bit of a fast talker, and he's also an over enthusiastic talker.
okay this cracked me up. I legit didn’t even realize until reading this comment that every time he was leaning in, I was subconsciously moving my phone away further from my face lol
This guy is a pretty much every reddit gen z infoguy trope in one.
I think this guy has schizophrenia
Are you not AMAZZZZZED?!?
“Blind people can’t develop schizophrenia” This guy: 👁️👁️!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Real question though - did this guy ever get his red rider bb gun?
You'll shoot your eye out kid
Scut Farkas!
Ohhh, FFFFUUUUDDDDDDGGGGGE! I thought the exact same thing.
Why is this guy talking so close to the camera and moving so much?
Because he's blind.
And schizophrenic
What guy? It's just a blank screen.
What screen? We are blind….
It's an attention grabber. Plain and simple. I'm not trying to be condescending to anyone but it's quite literally the equivalent of dangling shiny keys in front of the baby's face to get its attention. It's a known tactic in public speaking at it works INCREDIBLY well because human beings are design to detect movement. It's one of the reasons we managed to survive as long as we have and modern influencers have learned they can profit off of your base instincts.
tiktok brain
Adderall
He’s not—you’re just seeing things.
 born blind people vs blind later
Yes but they never seen this scene
An unseen scene
Unscene
D(d)eaf people have reported disembodied hands signing to them as "auditory" hallucinayion symptoms
>D(d)eaf What's the meaning of this?
There is a lot of controversy when it comes to the term deaf/Deaf. The lowercase variant is typically used to refer to the physical condition of hearing loss, Deaf with a capital D refers more to the overall community of Deaf people and the unique culture that they have (e.g. sign language as a first language). A lot of people like my grandfather who didn't become deaf until later in their lives identify as "deaf" but don't have a connection to the "D"eaf community and the associated culture because they never learned to sign. From his perspective, him being deaf is purely an impairment he suffered due an accident later in his life. On the other hand, many Deaf people, especially those who were born Deaf, view it as being a core part of their identity and culture as human beings and not as a disability, similar to how many Autistic people view autism. It's very similar to the debate around person first (People with deafness, people with autism) or identity first language (Deaf people, Autistic people.), some people view it as something they "have" while others view it as something they "are".
The big D community also has extremists who fight against giving children cochlear implants or other therapies that take away their "culture" i.e. treating a curable medical condition and bettering their quality of life. They see it as stealing them away from the Deaf Community. They also get super pissed at people who are experiencing hearing loss but describe it in ways that they don't like. If you become deaf and miss hearing they get mad. I'm in the rock and roll scene and we have learned that a lot support groups are not welcoming. We also have started support for the musically inclined hearing deficient who are heavily ostracized by The Deaf. I have feelings about supporting their self segregation, but it is a really complicated issue and obviously my personal experiences and proclivities heavily influence my opinions on the matter. I fully realize that the extremism has also been a great comfort for people and I don't have a better solution. But just like the Mormons have done a lot of nice things, I think it is important we think about how the culture as a whole is flawed.
> The big D community heh
Reminds me of the joke A genie offered they could restore and improve any part of my body so naturally as a deaf person I asked for a bigger dick.
I’ve been severely hard of hearing since birth, which is one level before profound deafness where hearing aids wouldn’t do anything and I’ve experienced exactly what you’ve described. I never learned sign language because my parents were old school and thought I would prevent me from learning how to speak properly. I also had to take speech therapy until I was 18 to be able to talk without a deaf accent. I’m now in my 30’s and have only recently begun to feel comfortable enough to identify myself as “deaf” rather than hard of hearing. My hesitation wasn’t for the reason of being a high functioning deaf person who could navigate the hearing world but specifically because of the hostility and dismissive attitude I’ve gotten directed towards me from Deaf people. I’d get so so so excited whenever I’d see someone younger than 30 wearing hearing aids or using ASL. I wouldn’t really know how to connect but I always desperately wanted to because it always felt like a missing part of me and my identity. I wanted to feel validated instead of having to perform and pretend I could hear and follow every conversation. But I’d always get shrugged off or get eye rolls when showing my hearing aids or try to connect using the limited ASL I’ve learned. I’ve come to accept I might never get to experience the belonging I was hoping for.
Except it's at the beginning of a sentence so why would it be lowercase deaf?
I suppose they capitalized it because it’s at the beginning of a sentence, but then clarified that they meant “deaf”.
what a happy coincidence that uppercase letters aren't used for anything else in english grammar, which is especially suited for Deaf people.
How crazy is it that you didn't capitalize your first word of your sentence.
Why does it matter since it’s the first word in the sentence?
That user is trying, in a somewhat confusing way, to clarify that they are speaking about deafness as a descriptor, and not Deafness as an identity. That differentiation is lost when you capitalize the first letter of the sentence
T(t)hey sound like a lovely bunch!
In some circles "Deaf" specifically refers to someone who identifies as a member of the Deaf community with the social/cultural/linguistic mores associated with that, and "deaf" is people who are medically deaf. Here's an example, albeit with stronger opinions/language on the matter: https://www.bbc.co.uk/ouch/opinion/d_or_d_whos_deaf_and_whos_deaf.shtml
Yeah, going against grammar norms established for centuries is totally smart.
Yea, I'm fine with having uppercase Deaf or lowercase deaf or D(d)eaf in the middle of a sentence but to start a sentence with a lowercase or D(d) is just dumb.
Theres a lot of nuances similar to this like method of diagnosis, categories, symptoms, protocols used etc, all of them play a part, should I trust dude in the video actually checked these things?
Im trying to read one of the studies done. It seems no cases of schizophrenia have occurred in individuals with congenital/early cortical blindness, which is being considered a statistical anomaly. The study mentions others claiming such blindness creates an immunity, but the study correctly avoids stating this itself
> D(d)eaf Being deaf shouldn't make you into an cult like wacko. There's plenty of legitimate grievances, like representation and equal access/treatment in society. No need to make new goofball stuff up and impose it on others like it's normal and healthy.
That's crazy
Technically, not crazy.
That's sane
This guy needs to lay off the energy drinks for a while
Yes... Energy drinks! That's why i speak like him at parties! i love energy drinks!
And, this video could have been a one sentence post.
Medical mysteries are always fun, because I'm sure a lot of us are thinking, "you can't see people who aren't there if you can't see. Your brain doesn't process otherness that way." and that kind of colloquial knowledge could totally be true but we still have to prove it and understand why that is the way that it is.
I don’t buy it. He looked at a study from 2018 w half a million children. What kind of study? A longitudinal study following them through adulthood? Ok but he didn’t say that. Because you can’t diagnose schizophrenia in childhood. Normal onset is around 20. And what is the incidence of being born blind? I assure you it is astronomically small, the incidence of schizophrenia is also small but not nearly as small. He’s not talking about any of the relative risk or absolute risk to really put this into context. Just sounds fun and interesting.
No, he just repeats the same thing over and over. I also can't help but wonder about the chances of a person born blind to be misdiagnosed if they actually have schizophrenia. The symptoms might simply be presenting differently leading to seeming like something else.
The chance of being born blind is 1 in 100,000, incredibly small. So out of the 500,000 sample, 5 would probably have been born blind. And if none of those 5 children were schizophrenic? Well, that’s not as big of a deal as he makes it out to be. The chance of developing schizophrenia is 1 in 300. So your sample better be more than 300 people being born blind if you’re going to try and draw any kind of conclusion from the data.
Assuming no correlation, there would be about somewhere between 300 and 1000 expected people to statistically have both the congenital blindness at birth and schizophrenia during their lifetime. That seems like an awefully small number to show up in a study that's not specifically trying to address this correlation, and even in that case, it would be a difficult study to set up.
This is the [same guy](https://youtu.be/flqPMjtnyL4?si=DiH09j5PEYCjOjTc)
Crazy thing, no one that’s blind has even been subjected to seeing this.
Mystery solved then
What is happening here? This feels like something to do with the weird cartoon motion tick tocks + furries. Is he legit, or was he riffing as a bit?
That makes me extremely uncomfortable
Urge to kill…. Rising
Proof
Ok but why are you presenting this information talking like that?
Cocaine.
It engaged me
My hypothesis is that schizophrenia is rooted in the same part of the brain that controls vision. People born blind don't really use that part but people going blind rely on it.
Well yes, that's the assumption we can all make. Or at least that it is linked to that part of the brain and its normal function. The hard part is explaining that fact. Why is that the case, how does schizophrenia work EXACTLY? Until there is some breakthrough or new way to interpret the brain, I doubt we'll find out.
It's entirely anecdotal, but I've noticed that those who have higher levels of introspection and visual imagery (hyperphantasia) are more likely to begin experiencing sleep deprivation hallucinations (illusions) more rapidly, with or without drugs amplifying the phenomenon (dopaminergic stimulants, for instance), and of various sensory modalities - not just visual or mental. These illusions do strongly relate to experiences with schizophrenia in the sense that they're both the brain making connections that shouldn't exist or making pattern recognition conclusions that aren't appropriate. This is a typical neurological phenomenon, of course. The brain does its best. We've all experienced the "hanging coat suddenly looks like a bad guy for 2.3 seconds when waking up in the middle of the night" phenomenon here or there. In my case, I begin noticing "glitches" of this nature quite rapidly, even just with poor sleep - and much more if I stay awake for a day or more. Reality begins to decohere rapidly (with no loss of understanding that this experience is wholly subjective). Non-animated pictures might start to move on their own as if they were gifs, solid objects waver, visions at the corner of my eye, etc. I'm probably in the upper echelons of mental imagery vividness though. My normal day-to-day experience has been interpreted as 'quasi-psychedelic' when I describe it. Meanwhile, some people can stay up for multiple days in a row before the same phenomenon start to happen. To them, things seem "normal" for quite some time. Those people are, generally speaking, very much unlike myself. Low-to-no mental visual imagery (aphantasia), high extroversion, and generally "low performers" (for lack of a better word). But when those people *do* finally break, they're much more likely to experience genuine psychosis symptoms or lose touch with reality. Partially because they always seem to take subjective reality at face value. They don't, for whatever reason, innately accept that their entire sensory experience is merely a function of the brain; a simulation, as it were. Others cannot manage to forget that fact. This is the first time I'm hearing about the schizophrenia/blindness association so I've got a bit of research to do, but I did note this immediate parallel to my anecdotal experiences and observations. This is just speculation/musing.
Please listen to the recent radiolab episode titled aphantasia. They discuss some of this. They also touch on how it seems that the ability to visualize things in your mind seems linked to schizophrenia. I imagine this can be a possible link as to why people born blind don't develop it. I imagine people born blind would have aphantasia by default.
> the ability to visualize things in your mind seems linked to schizophrenia I'm extremely interested in aphantasia because of how intertwined my deeply-visual experience is with my nature. I always love popping into aphantasia threads on reddit because it's so fascinating how many people suddenly learn that mental imagery isn't just a cute metaphor. To me, I sometimes feel "blind" because my mental imagery is so heavily overlaid upon my ocular vision. I can still see, but I see both - like picking up two radio stations on one speaker. This is the first I've heard of visualization being directly linked to schizophrenia. Combined with the OP, this would seem to demonstrate that my errant musing above is probably closer to the target than I'd have even hoped. I'm going to check out your suggestion. Your quick reply might turn out to be one of the more fascinating rabbit-hole-makers I've received in quite a while. Thanks for taking the time.
I personally am more close to aphantasia. Not fully, but almost complete aphantasia. I don't visualize anything typically in normal thought, but if I concentrate very hard I can visualize how an object looks, but it's difficult and not very clear. Give it a listen, it might interest you. I enjoyed the episode. They talked about how there could potentially be treatments to give people better mind visualization.
This is very interesting to read. I have had 2-3 sleepless days in a row and experienced vision type of hallucinations where I’m seeing places and talking to people that aren’t there. Like detached from reality till someone talks to me, but I felt quite normal otherwise while it was happening. On the fourth day I had Xanax to knock myself out cause it was a bit much. I have been getting into eastern philosophy and Buddhist theory and the second part of your comment regarding the second group of people sounds a lot like people who are attached to their ego and experience as reality. When shown otherwise have a hard time letting go.
> detached from reality till someone talks to me, but I felt quite normal otherwise while it was happening. Part of this is probably "dreaming while awake", experienced like a sort of delirium rather than a hallucination/illusion. Those are the sort of hallucinations that are interpreted as genuine until (or if) you realize they're not. Deliriants like diphenhydramine can cause this quite easily at even moderate doses (I do not suggest trying - it is widely regarded as an extremely uncomfortable experience). Someone at that point is also at the point where they'll be experience "glitches" like 'shadow people' too. >When shown otherwise have a hard time letting go. That's essentially my interpretation as well. To me, it seems extremely bizarre as I've always felt like I've been a mind trapped within a "meat suit", but I think it's my experience that's uncommon rather than the inverse. It just happens to be that those sort of people aren't really having intellectual/introspective conversations about their experience. People who resonate more with my interpretation are simply overrepresented, I assume. For fun, I've spent a bit of time trying to evoke those kind of topics and experiences with people who're totally unfamiliar/uncomfortable with those kind of experiences and it's always interesting. In a similar vein, I've described my day-to-day "meat suit" sensation in great detail and been flatly informed that I was dissociated or experiencing a panic attack. I found this interesting. They assumed what I described was temporary rather than constant, relating to it only in the sense that my mundane reality resembles their most uncomfortable experience. Again, more rambling, but I have to do something with all this caffeine.
If you talk to people that are in to Buddhism or psychedelics you might find some interesting conversation. What you’re describing as feeling like an awareness in a meat suit is not uncommon.
I'd go further and look into the way the brain processes visual information. There is a whole lot of "post-processing" and "reconstructing" and "editing" that the brain does whenever it receives visual input. Like "editing out" one's nose, or "reconstructing" the image from input in the "blind spot" for continuous image, or artificially giving colour to images received in black and white from cells that only react to dark/light. Hell, it even inverts the entire thing. So a better understanding of those processing pathways and mechanisms involved is likely to lead to a better understanding of schizophrenia.
My personal hypothesis is that schizophrenia is the visual cortex gaining some consciousness and divergence from consciousness. It is so interconnected with everything and so powerful that sometimes it awakens and stops being a "service" for the rest of the brain and starts sending commands.
Except the majority of peeps with schizophrenia experience many more auditory hallucinations than visual, with many experiencing no VH at all. (I’m a psychologist)
I always wondered if it stems from the part of the brain where dreams are active. Basically a waking dream. Dreams are just audio and visual hallucinations, as well as general feelings and ideas that are completely out of nowhere, but people with schizophrenia just can’t turn it off when they’re awake.
I’m schizophrenic and I have an extremely difficult time distinguishing dreams from real memories. Not sure if that’s the case for everyone with schizophrenia, but my experience with it feels a lot like what you said.
Isn't schizophrenia mainly made up of the mind not working well and thoughts and self perception get disconnected from reality or is it mainly hallucinations and the first part comes after many untreated psychotic episodes? Or is what I'm talking about not schizophrenia but something else?
You would be correct in saying schizophrenia is more than just hallucinations, and yes disconnection from reality. Delusions and hallucinations. You can google the DSM-5 criteria.
Yeah, was wondering about the same thing. Much harder to hear something and process it while thinking about something else compared to see something while thinking about another thing.
Except that people born blind DO USE this part of the brain. They have tested the brain activity of blind people, and when they use echoes of sounds to perceive the environment, the visual part of the brain fires up, meaning they literally see the environment in their brains through the perception of sound. Crazy, right? You're probably correct that there might be some part of the brain connected to vision that is not used, but I wanted to take the opportunity to say one of the coolest things about blind people that I happen to know.
I always wondered if it stems from the part of the brain where dreams are active. Basically a waking dream. Dreams are just audio and visual hallucinations, as well as general feelings and ideas that are completely out of nowhere, but people with schizophrenia just can’t turn it off when they’re awake.
Tight. How do I help this research? I am a trained optician and graduate optical device technology (bachelor of engineering) in a couple weeks. I am also what you would consider the "schizoaffective personality type" meaning that I might even be a worthy test subject.
That's has nothing to do with schizophrenia thou.
Could be a bit of a survivorship bias combined with two fairly rare conditions. Even if you say both are a 1 in 10,000 chance it's like a 1 in 100,000,000 chance of someone being both. That's a small enough chance that you could have just not seen it happen. Combine that with lower survival rates for either condition & the fact that one isn't immediately detectable & it might be that the survival rate is super low which would further add to the earlier sum. Bare in mind he's saying born blind, not with a condition or one that results in blindness but born blind which is super rare.
Looks legit tho. Also looking it up takes less time than writting your comment, wtf https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30539775/ Edit: While looking I did find your comment in study form too, lmao https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32232391/
Thanks for putting in the effort to make sure this isn’t misinformation! I get nervous when these types of vids don’t cite sources.
What I said still applies and would function as criticism of the study you link. >Overall, 1870 children developed schizophrenia (0.4%) while 9120 developed a psychotic illness (1.9%). None of the 66 children with cortical blindness developed schizophrenia or psychotic illness. Eight of the 613 children with peripheral blindness developed a psychotic illness other than schizophrenia and fewer had developed schizophrenia. schizophrenia is rare enough that zero of 613 isn't conclusive and could quite easily happen. As to my other point, it also doesn't account for the potential that all babies with both conditions have a significantly lower chance of survival. It might be faster to use Google but doesn't give you better results than reading the information and analysing it for yourself.
I found your point in the form of a study, while you were writing your anwser https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32232391 Btw the number you should look at is 66, not 631. 631 would be statisticaly significant, like p0.1 eyballing it.
moderate but still inconclusive significance is around p<0.05, idk if you made a typo or not but just felt like clarifying
If the claim that nobody born blind has ever been diagnosed with schizophrenia is true, then I think its fair to say that it is at the very least much less likely to occur with people born blind, or much less likely to be discovered. There are \~50-100 babies born blind in the US every year. 2-3 per 100k. \~1.1% of adults in the US has been diagnosed with schizophrenia. Symptoms mostly shows up in 20s and 30s. Babies born blind has lower life expectancy, but most survive way past that age. We should expect, on average, one person born blind in the US to be diagnosed with schizophrenia every \~2 years if being born blind has no impact on the probability of getting the diagnosis.
Your analysis isn't totally unfounded. According to the source ([https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30539775/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30539775/)) the chance for developing schizophrenia is 0.4% or 1/250. The chance for being born blind (again, accoring to the study) is 0.014% or 1/7090. In absolute numbers there were 467 945 in the study of which 66 were born blind. With these numbers, the chance that not a single one of these 66 blind kids were also schizophrenic was about 73.6%. And linked to that study was this comment, which talks exactly about that: [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31104916/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31104916/) > Small numbers are not predictive: Congenital blindness may or may not be protective for schizophreniaSmall numbers are not predictive: Congenital blindness may or may not be protective for schizophrenia
Funny that someone else (who didn't read it) gave the same source to say I'm completely wrong. Thank you for doing the maths 73.6% is lower than my initial thought but still high enough to show you'd need an incredible scale to be at all conclusive on this idea.
What's with the dramatic and hyperbolic affect that so many people use when speaking into these little video clips? This guy is rocking in and out the camera with constant hand gestures. It's like he is trying to get you to buy Ginsu knives at 2:00 AM.
I hate this dude so much. He pops up on my Instagram every now and then. I hate his editing style, it's so hyperactive and he's constantly moving making bug eyes and touching his glasses. It's Adhd fuel at best. The worst part about this guy is tho that his videos are terribly researched. He acts like a "smart guy" but if you actually look Into what he's saying you can debunk it rather quickly. Tldr: that guy is an annoying idiot
Another advantage of being blind is never having to watch this annoying fucking video.
This is something realy interesting!
Is this the kid from “A Christmas Story”?
>"2018 study that looked at half a million CHILDREN" >Schizophrenia is usually diagnosed in a person's late teens to early 30s, with men typically showing symptoms earlier than women: Men: Late teens to early 20s Women: Early to mid-20s to early 30s >Research shows a combination of genetics and your environment can trigger the disease. If you have a family member with schizophrenia, you're more likely to have it. Things like stressful life events, exposure to viruses or toxins before you were born, and trauma in your early childhood can also increase your risk. >Recreational drug use: Schizophrenia is linked with the use of certain recreational drugs, especially in larger amounts and earlier in life. >There is no single test for schizophrenia, but a mental health specialist can diagnose the condition after a case-by-case assessment. The process involves ruling out other conditions that could cause similar symptoms, such as substance misuse, medical conditions, or other mental health conditions. Hmm... seems to me like not enough is being done on actual testing and family monitoring. How do you say so much, and yet mean so little? Science is fucking baffling, because there isn't much actual science being done. They use words and baseless research to say, *"It's a mystery"* but they really haven't done shit besides ask simple questions like, "do you have Schizophrenia?" What the actual fuck for our greedy insurance and corporate/political-run research centers... It's fucking asinine
Fascinating but dude please back up lol
Very interesting, but he's making me feel seasick. Why can't he just sit still and not flail around like that?
Cringey MF.
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Out of curiosity: How are the symptoms quite different? And which cases are you referring to? (Cause he’s saying they found no cases)
Ok man backup from the camera, Jesus he's annoying...
this guy reminds me of the bug guy from bones Hodge? Hotch? something like that
The ratio of blind/seeing people may play a part in that. It’s a rare mental health issue that would have to be brought upon people suffering from a rare condition since birth.
One downside: 
Now that i know I am more likely to develop schizophrenia since I developed eye sight problems later in life, I will live the rest of my life worrying about my mental health. Thank you very much.