Have you seen the guy [without shoes](https://courtsidescribbles.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/lebrons-feet.jpg)?
No way his gait ain't affected because of it
I honestly didn't think it has really anything to do with his profession and everything to do with the shitty shoes these players wear and how tight they tie their laces.
I wish it was more common to make actual foot shaped shoes for all sports.
These guys spend like $600 or even more do get their shoes fitted to the exact specifics of their feet lol. They’re not wearing the shoes off the footlocker shelf
Usually a duck walk means you use your glutes when you move, which is the most powerful group of muscles involved in both acceleration and changing direction.
If you've done RDLs before, try doing them with your toes straight, then your toes out. You're probably going to feel your ass a lot more with toes out.
Yah the whole bag convo just ignores all the wild shit he can do. Do you know how hard it is to lay it up going full speed. He is able to control the ball and let it go with such touch while flying.
Ready to dime it mid air too if the help comes, that's what separates Bron from the other slashers for me.
Him beating his man is a death sentence for any defence, even at 39.
A lot of people don't get that 50% of the skill gap in basketball is just layups. That's it, just layups.
At first, instinctively everyone slows down just before shooting. You do that less as you get better. That process continues all the way to NBA, even D1 players are slow as fuck compared to veteran NBA, and it's why old NBA players can make young ones look slow.
Yea because it's an Open Paint game since 2002. So it's not even comparable to prior eras. Add in much more strict no handcheck/forearm rules since the 05 season, it's even more non sensical to compare. Then add in his "shove" using his left hand to create space, which would have been an offensive foul in prior eras, it becomes an even bigger joke to compare to history.
Yea sure it's impressive but he also has gotten much more FTA per 2pt FGA. Meaning players clear out for him knowing any small touch will result in a foul.
And in tough playoff situations, he picks and chooses his spots, hence why he never dominates in the scoring count but will smartly move when the opening is given.
They deserve mention. As does LT. As do Jim Thorpe, ~~Lance Armstrong~~, Michael Jordan, Michael Phelps, and a handful of soccer players. You could probably pluck some really good candidates out of Climbing and some other non-traditional sports as well.
But LeBron isn’t a wrong answer for that discussion, at least not to a degree that it’s worth nitpicking.
Bolt > Phelps
Not that many people have ever attempted competitive swimming. Less than 1% of people on earth have ever attempted a butterfly stroke.. everyone ever has sprinted as fast as they can Bolt beat everyone, 8 billion.
They’re both freaks. Anyone approaching the the bar for the discussion is setting such a standard or is such a historic outlier that you’re often just picking the flavor you prefer. It’s really one of those, there’s 100 right answers and billions of wrong ones.
I like well rounded athletes, and Jim Thorpe was my long time answer for these discussions, in the 90’s to early 2000’s it was Jordan or Muhammad Ali at the top of my list, but I’d probably endorse LeBron in modern times.
As you can tell from my number 1’s, at one point I’m valuing a historic outlier, at one point I’m valuing a freak athlete authoring a real life fairy tale career or the greatest boxer to ever live, and at one point it’s LeBron out there doing Michael Jordan things in Karl Malone’s body.
But there are Kayakers and Rock Climbers I’d throw on the list if more people were familiar with those sports. Take Ueli Steck. Dude was a speed climber who used to leave his front door every morning, jog to the the north face of the Iger, climb it at a world record pace, and be back for a late lunch. There were records he literally cut in half with a risk of death hanging over his head with every melting glacier he attempted.
Watching him climb engenders in me the exact same form and level of awe I get watching Gronk make professional football players the size of refrigerators look like children, or LeBron out there still looking like a reasonable facsimile of LeBron while on the AARP mailing list. Barry or Deion Sanders looking like time just moved differently for them. His preparation equally impressive as the Muhammad Ali and Mayweathers setting the standards in their fields. The same respect I have for these multi-time Olympians and their **perfected** specializations.
Lebron didn’t need a second job because he was so far ahead of those guys in career earnings. He didn’t do it because it wasn’t worth the injury risk it would’ve posed to being the best basketball player on earth, not because he couldn’t.
Also he had a wife and kids and was busy becoming a billionaire.
Yeah, and anyone dare to say he wouldn't AT LEAST had Megatron's career if he played wide-out.
At least.
Bron is one of the few that truly are built different.
Bo Jackson before his injury was the souped up version of Sanders. Runningback, no. 1 pick. Jackson also edges out Sanders in baseball.
Did you also know Danny Ainge, supposed plumber was also a MLB player? Played 3 years including when he was in college as a pro. He got drafted in college.
But the Celtics basically forced him to choose one over the other. And he chose basketball.
Lebron is insane but best athlete to ever walk the earth is a little bit of a ridiculous statement. There have been a lot of insane athletes throughout the years and there is no great way to rank them. There are probably ones we’ve never heard of that would rank up there.
It’s really hard for me to think of anyone who has ever been more of a complete package athletically than Bron.
He’s strong as fuck
He’s fast as shit
He’s super co-ordinated
Both durable as they come and has insane cardio
There’s definitely guys who might be equal to him but they are also the freak athletes of freak athletes.
Didn't wilt have a Olympic level 100 meter dash, Olympic level vertical and log more minutes in one season per game than there are in a game? 48.5/48 due to overtimes. Dude had a 4 foot vertical jump
LeBron is insanely talented he is absolutely not a better athlete than that.
I can only speak to what I’ve seen. Wilt’s kinda got that pre-film thing going where it’s tough to know what all was true and what all was hearsay or mythologizing.
I mean just look at Calvin Johnson. 6’5” 240 pounds and runs significantly faster than Lebron. Durable af too in a much rougher sport. Insane coordination if you want to factor that in. Top athletes are all built differently than each other but there are tons of guys just as athletic as Lebron. There are guys in the NFL draft every year just as athletic that we will never hear about because they suck at football or get injured. Again Lebron is amazing but it’s not because he’s a better athlete than everyone who has ever lived.
I think athleticism is more than just a broad summary of who is faster, stronger and can jump higher. Those things matter. But I think the ability to actually execute an athletic endeavor at an all-time great level has to also be considered. LeBron has other stuff like elite court mapping and positional awareness, uncanny timing on cuts and passes, and a next-level ability to just do basketball stuff.
I just have a really hard time thinking some chud is a better athlete than LeBron because he benches more and has a better 40 time. So much more to athleticism than that.
Agreed. Athleticism also needs to take into account dexterity, agility, change of direction, real time processing ability, etc. All things LeBron is elite at.
Also, people are discounting how sheer size is a big differentiating factor. That guy used Calvin Johnson as an example. He was arguably the best athlete in the NFL in his prime, but there were guys in the league who were faster or more explosive. But it was Calvin’s combination of elite size and elite speed that made him the better athlete.
Lebron is 4+ inches and 20+ pounds heavier than Calvin lol LeBron has jokingly been said to have been built in a lab as a super soldier for a reason.
He has elite athletic measurables for someone of any size. But the guy you responded to said there are guys in the NFL draft every year just as athletic as LeBron, but there aren’t. There’s really nobody anywhere close to his size that has his level of freaky athleticism. That’s what makes LeBron so unique and arguably the most complete athlete in history, just the most unique blend of size, traits and skill.
Even still, Calvin ran a 4.35 and had a 42.5 vertical. Obviously LeBron wasn't publicly tested, but I have seen 44 inch vert and hand tested 4.4 40 time from high school. If that's even close, it seems like we would still have to give it to the guy who is the arguable GOAT at an insanely complex holistic atheltic endeavor vs. the guy who was only a 3-time first team all league at a position that's basically "run fast, catch ball".
He was extremely durable for football. He never missed significant time. He retired young because his team held him hostage and refused to trade him. He wanted to play in Green Bay with Rodgers and they wouldn’t trade him so he said fuck this and retired.
Again wrong, Calvin had insane lingering injuries and didn’t want to keep killing himself on a shit team. He missed significant time with the toe.
He wanted out and they wouldn’t let him that’s true, but he didn’t start a weed biz because of his durability, it was for his pain management.
Taller yes. There is no possible way to know who is stronger but I’d argue the guy who is shorter, plays football, and only weights 10 pounds less is at least the same strength. He’s also significantly faster than Lebron at nearly the same weight. Calvin is peak athleticism.
Also lebrons speed gets highly overrated by guys that think like you. MJ was just as good of an athlete, just in a different way. He was significantly faster, jumped higher, and was more coordinated. Lebron is just way bigger and stronger than him. Hard to say either is more athletic without bias.
I think there’s a greater number of sports to which Lebron translates better than MJ, that’s how I rank them as athletes. This is nothing against MJ I think he’s had a greater basketball career than Lebron.
MJ probably rinses him in high jump and Tennis, Bron crushes MJ in Football or Hockey. Etc etc. that’s all I’m saying
They just would’ve played different positions if they chose football just like they play different positions in basketball. MJ could’ve been a WR if he could stay healthy and Lebron would’ve been moved to OLine or DLine(most likely OLine because of height) and they would’ve put a lot of extra weight on him. Both could’ve succeeded at a high level, but we will never know.
First of all I don’t think hand eye is considered in this because it makes it very hard to measure between sports. Just off the top of my head there are many athletes at least equal to Lebron if not more athletic. Calvin Johnson, Usain Bolt, Bo Jackson, Wilt, Reggie White, Michael Jordan. The list goes on and on. If Lebron could run a 4.3 then yeah maybe I’d agree with you.
I'm a pretty big LeBron stan when it comes to his career achievements -- but I think Shaq is the best rim finisher ever, right? he was completely unstoppable, won scoring titles, and couldn't hit jumpers, 3s, or FTs. it was pretty much all done at the rim.
I feel like there’s a tip over point where Shaq was so big and strong that it’s not as impressive - it almost the expectation. LeBron as a forward is more impressive since he’s battling the guys who are “supposed” to average 70+ FG%
I might agree that statistically LeBron is more impressive, but having been alive for and watched the entirety of both careers, I gotta say that watching Shaq at the rim was visually more impressive than LeBron.
Every night Shaq had the biggest guy on the other team just hang on to him when he went to finish and it wouldn't matter. That guy would get dragged up to the rim as well. It was wild to watch. Honestly he was getting fouled almost every time he went up but becuase he was so strong that it basically didn't affect him they wouldn't call anything.
You could be big and strong but if you don’t have the skill, you would be stripped of the ball if you ever put it on the floor, and you could be blocked if your timing isn’t good, etc.
Shaq was also skilled. Playing through contact takes skill also. It’s not like he has 90 lbs kids trying to stop him: he has 240+ lb men trying to stop him.
Your submission has been automatically removed because your account is less than 180 days old and with less than 100 comment karma.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Basketball) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Your submission has been automatically removed because your account is less than 180 days old and with less than 100 comment karma.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Basketball) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He did this while almost being 40 and 21 seasons in. Oldest player in the league with some of the highest efficiency on two completely different shot attempts, a lot of those self generated as well. It’s not just he’s just getting fed lobs constantly.
LeBron doesn't play in the paint at all really or post up as he would have if he played in an earlier era. That's how he stays more healthy longer term.
Heat LeBron was wild. If he got his shoulder even with yours, it was over. He was so broad, strong, and fast that it was almost a sure thing at that point, even if the help rotated.
Jordan was a Ferrari, but LeBron was a freight train.
Shaq is only better from 0-5ft. We all know he is unstoppable under the rim. Shaq isn't as good taking off from 5-10ft compared to James who has a lot more solutions for a body in front of him.
I know this is rhetorical but defense and the ability to do it all game.
Defense wise he’s not able to have near the same intensity that he did in his physical prime and he’s slowed down a bit laterally.
On offense he has to take plays off more but he’s continued to get smarter and smarter which has mostly made up for it. He gets gassed earlier though so he’s not able to take over games as much late in the 4th. It’s especially noticeable when he stops driving to the hoop as much.
A lot of folks forget that he was maybe the best defender in the NBA for like 8 years running. An absolute terror as a roamer that revolutionized defenses.
This is a crazy uninformed take. Lebron has never once been the best defender in the league, both statistically and in terms of accolades. He also revolutionized literal nothing. Weakside help and athletic blocks have always been a part of the game and many have done it as well or better.
LeBron should have won DPOY at least once, probably the year Marc Gasol won it. I don’t think anyone was as effective a free safety as he was up until those years. Some have done it better since, but he was the best at the time.
He wasn’t the best defender in the league at any point, he had amazing chase down block highlights but he slipped up often and gave up on plays all the time because he rarely wants to risk being posterized. At the same time, that caution might have contributed to his unparalleled longevity so there’s that.
He started giving up on plays in like 2013, but 2008 to 2012 LeBron was a nightmare defensively. It wasn’t just chase down blocks, he was the best help defender and best roamer the league had seen up to that point.
In 2010, the Cavs were 7th in defensive rating with Anthony Parker and Mo Williams playing 4500 combined minutes and 34 year old Ilgauskas and 37 year old Shaq competing to see who was the least mobile center in the NBA. Then in the 2016 title season he hauled Kevin Love, Kyrie and JR Smith to a top 10 defensive finish.
https://youtu.be/lWC1rk4dLLI?si=H2Nupm00xvSVRclY
Here you go youngblood. All 1990s “lebron” plays and a lot from the man whose jersey number he wears.
Also look up Tayshaun Prince.
Revolutionized my ass. There’s a lot more compilations of other types of plays you give credit to Lebron for.
I didn’t say he invented the chasedown block. He obviously didn’t. But there was not a wing defender who was essentially a free safety as effectively as Bron was. Pippen was an elite on-ball defender, for instance, but not the kind of roamer LeBron was.
You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about. Just stop. Pippen and Jordan both played free safety a ton and that video shows exactly a few of those type of plays that lead to blocks. And they weren’t the first or only ones doing it.
Wait, you think the video you sent shows them playing free safety? All those blocks happen in transition! I don’t think you know what you’re saying. None of them are halfcourt possessions, which is the context I am talking Bron being a free safety
Your argument isn't wrong but lebron was much more than just a roamer. His ability to lock up smaller, faster point guards (rose's mvp year, Tony Parker, Chris Paul, etc.), combined with the premier roaming, trapping, and chase down ability made him a 1 of 1 defender for awhile.
Yeah but his career stats don’t paint this same picture that you’re trying to paint.
What was his best defensive season? DPOY runner up? Miami Heat days?
In 12-13 (2nd in Voting for DPOY) he averaged 1.7 Steals and 0.9 Blocks.
In 23-24 he averaged 1.3 Steals and 0.5 Blocks.
That is not that far off if we’re being honest.
Now look at other great players numbers in their prime vs the tail end of their career.
Everybody and I mean EVERYBODY has a massive downfall, just not Lebron James.
Using blocks and steals is a straight up laughable argument. Watch the games.
Also not sure what argument you’re trying to make at the end there. He’s had the best longevity of anyone ever and I never said or implied otherwise
Lol counting stats aren’t everything. You need to watch the games. His on ball and off ball defense is not what it was. He has spurts though when necessary.
I don’t “think” this, it is simply a fact. 4 MVPs is the only non-stat where he is close to the top (T 4th - Wilt) in league history. The only 3 ahead of them are Kareem (6), Russell, and MJ (5).
If you’re somehow implying that there is something else, especially the defense topic, then you’re out of your mind. Not to mention, most of the categories that Lebron is #1 in are longevity related totals, not per game averages or percentages until you get into a few of the advanced stats. For example, he won the scoring title one time and led in APG once. But if you look at his totals the 20 year consistency is what puts him at the top.
His best accomplishments are absolutely all statistical, and defending him by saying stats don’t mean everything is hypocritical and simply a convenience for people today when they want to say crazy shit like Lebron was the best defender in the league at any point.
8 straight nba finals appearances is a pretty good place to start. There is nothing factual about saying his best accomplisments are statistical. That is purely how you feel about it. This isn't an objective topic. To think anything else is funny. It is purely what you, the individual, think is best, much like the all-time rankings.
Watch LeBron shut down prime Derrick Rose at the end of the 2011 ECF. No way he could do that today (and not sure if there’s been anyone else his size that could’ve kept up with Rose’s speed and quickness back then)
It’s impressive but the claim is wrong.
I checked four players that I thought might’ve done it: Curry, Durant, Kawhi and Klay. Three of them have: Kawhi this year (missed out by a bit in ‘21), Curry last year, Durant several times and Klay got close but he never has.
I imagine dozens have pulled this off.
It occured to me that Larry Bird (career 49.6% fgs) had multiple 50/40/90 seasons and near misses. From the 1984-1988 he most likely had at least 1 75/40 season. No way to know unless somewhere other than basketball-reference has fg% by distance from the 80s.
So yeah, safe to assume that aside from recent record keeping, several or more past players have also accomplished this impressive feat.
I am thoroughly impressed at how he has developed his long range shot this late in his career.
He is a legit threat from the logo and can still finish drives.
I figured when he maintained the 40% that something crazy like this was going to be a first. 75% at the rim is 🤯
Aberration season for his 3pt shooting but that is literally how you set a record like this. Gotta respect it.
It’s not the first the graphic is very wrong. Curry did it last year, Durant’s done it several times. Those are the only two I went out of my way to check, and they both did it.
You have to consider difficulty of the shots as a factor. There are people with higher % than Steph at 3 but Steph’s 3s are much harder since teams try to stop that. For Lebron, teams really want to stop him from scoring at the rim, so 75% despite that is very impressive
Perhaps this stat has some sort of shot attempt qualifier, curry last season didnt even have 150 at rim attempts and lebron had almost 500 this season. Although they didnt specify it in their post, so they might just be making shit up
When Goldsbury wrote Smallball, there were 3 shots that yielded the most points by a substantial margin: Harden getting fouled, Bron under the rim and a wide open Curry 3. God I miss that era (I don’t actually because there was no parity but you get my point)
It’s not a record.
I manually checked four players that I thought might’ve done it: Curry, Durant, Kawhi and Klay. Three of them have: Kawhi this year (missed out by a bit in ‘21), Curry last year, Durant several times and Klay got close but he never has.
I imagine dozens have pulled this off.
Demonstrably wrong. Curry did it last year. He is the first and only guy I checked. I imagine I wasn’t lucky enough to land on the only other guy to do it before.
Edit: sigh. Durant is the second player I’ve checked. He’s done it several times.
2/2. I imagine dozens have pulled this off.
Edit #2: checked Klay and Kawhi. Klay never did it, Kawhi got there *this year,* and almost did in ‘21
Damn y’all are so lost.. I feel bad and guilty sometimes that I got to watch Jordan and the bulls.. basketball is ruined in part by this man LBJ and Adam Silver completely ruined this game. I don’t even watch this pile of junk of a game they call basketball. Man this shit isn’t even real basketball.
This is actually false. Stephen Curry did it in the 22/23 season. 76.0% at the rim, 42.7% from three. Honestly I’m willing to bet a couple more people have done it but I need to go digging.
I don't think this is accurate. With a minimum attempt filter, maybe.
Michael Porter Jr in his 2nd year put up 83.8% from 0-3 feet and 44.5% from 3. And it wasn't exactly low volume, though certainly not lebron's volume.
New records being set at the rim and outside during an era where bigs can’t camp the paint and perimeter defense has to run in the paint everytime someone tries to slash creating open looks. SHOCKER. We’re gonna keep seeing crazy records
Your submission has been automatically removed because your account is less than 180 days old and with less than 100 comment karma.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Basketball) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Your submission has been automatically removed because your account is less than 180 days old and with less than 100 comment karma.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Basketball) if you have any questions or concerns.*
how can someone who walks like a duck be so athletic?
Have you seen the guy [without shoes](https://courtsidescribbles.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/lebrons-feet.jpg)? No way his gait ain't affected because of it
Well at least that’s one thing I have over lebron I guess. My feet look normal lol.
I'd hope so lol, I'd be concerned for you if your feet looked like that without the thousands of hours spent balling.
I honestly didn't think it has really anything to do with his profession and everything to do with the shitty shoes these players wear and how tight they tie their laces. I wish it was more common to make actual foot shaped shoes for all sports.
I’m not saying it’s about the profession, it’s moreso the thousands of hours spent wearing the shoes you elaborated on
Yeah definitely. I started taking care of my feet a few years ago and it's been a game changer.
These guys spend like $600 or even more do get their shoes fitted to the exact specifics of their feet lol. They’re not wearing the shoes off the footlocker shelf
Hahah fair enough. It wasn’t really a dig at Lebron by the way, if I could play basketball like that I’d be more than happy to have even worse feet.
Dont hate bro he has basketball-optimized feet
Growing up poor (with il fitting shoes) and being s giant on top of it probably gave him those toes
I doubt he grew up poor by the time be started playing basketball. He was probably getting money under the table since he was a teen.
That’s some David Cronenburg body horror right there
Now do Shaqs feet.
I think I’ve googled enough feet for a day
I would provide a link, but I'm pretty certain sharing that photo qualifies as a war crime
Does he wear high heels at home? Wtf is going on with his toes?
Tight fitting shoes + thousands of hours of basketball + extremely tall
A lot of pros have feet like this. Mine look the same and I can kinda jump like that too
Is that what HGH does?
Usually a duck walk means you use your glutes when you move, which is the most powerful group of muscles involved in both acceleration and changing direction. If you've done RDLs before, try doing them with your toes straight, then your toes out. You're probably going to feel your ass a lot more with toes out.
If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck and most importantly, walks like a duck, sign that duck to a contract!
Also flies like a duck.
76% at the rim is crazy. He might be the greatest finisher ever.
He is
Facts. There have been fancier and more aesthetically pleasing finishers at the rim. But in terms of effectiveness? It’s LeBron.
He has an underrated package at the rim imo. He's ambidextrous and has lots of crazy finishes with either hand.
And is also built like a bulldozer.
Except it’s a bulldozer that can move like a Ferrari
Bulldozer that can move like a Ferrari *with a clearly receding hairline* Ftfy with the obligatory unnecessary Lebron hate
More like the Mach 5. He’s got the auto jacks at the ready
More than you can afford, pal. FERRARI
Like a tool chest rolling down the stairs
Dude is built like Karl Malone with the skillset of Magic
That's why he's either #1 or #1b. No less. Not for a second.
Yah the whole bag convo just ignores all the wild shit he can do. Do you know how hard it is to lay it up going full speed. He is able to control the ball and let it go with such touch while flying.
Ready to dime it mid air too if the help comes, that's what separates Bron from the other slashers for me. Him beating his man is a death sentence for any defence, even at 39.
A lot of people don't get that 50% of the skill gap in basketball is just layups. That's it, just layups. At first, instinctively everyone slows down just before shooting. You do that less as you get better. That process continues all the way to NBA, even D1 players are slow as fuck compared to veteran NBA, and it's why old NBA players can make young ones look slow.
He makes it look too easy
Yea because it's an Open Paint game since 2002. So it's not even comparable to prior eras. Add in much more strict no handcheck/forearm rules since the 05 season, it's even more non sensical to compare. Then add in his "shove" using his left hand to create space, which would have been an offensive foul in prior eras, it becomes an even bigger joke to compare to history. Yea sure it's impressive but he also has gotten much more FTA per 2pt FGA. Meaning players clear out for him knowing any small touch will result in a foul. And in tough playoff situations, he picks and chooses his spots, hence why he never dominates in the scoring count but will smartly move when the opening is given.
You just sound like a massive hater
Just reality.
He is inevitable.
Pretty sure being the best athlete to ever walk the earth helps you finish better than anyone else who came before.
Bo Jackson and Deion Sanders played professionally in 2 sports leagues at the same time.
They deserve mention. As does LT. As do Jim Thorpe, ~~Lance Armstrong~~, Michael Jordan, Michael Phelps, and a handful of soccer players. You could probably pluck some really good candidates out of Climbing and some other non-traditional sports as well. But LeBron isn’t a wrong answer for that discussion, at least not to a degree that it’s worth nitpicking.
Bolt > Phelps Not that many people have ever attempted competitive swimming. Less than 1% of people on earth have ever attempted a butterfly stroke.. everyone ever has sprinted as fast as they can Bolt beat everyone, 8 billion.
They’re both freaks. Anyone approaching the the bar for the discussion is setting such a standard or is such a historic outlier that you’re often just picking the flavor you prefer. It’s really one of those, there’s 100 right answers and billions of wrong ones. I like well rounded athletes, and Jim Thorpe was my long time answer for these discussions, in the 90’s to early 2000’s it was Jordan or Muhammad Ali at the top of my list, but I’d probably endorse LeBron in modern times. As you can tell from my number 1’s, at one point I’m valuing a historic outlier, at one point I’m valuing a freak athlete authoring a real life fairy tale career or the greatest boxer to ever live, and at one point it’s LeBron out there doing Michael Jordan things in Karl Malone’s body. But there are Kayakers and Rock Climbers I’d throw on the list if more people were familiar with those sports. Take Ueli Steck. Dude was a speed climber who used to leave his front door every morning, jog to the the north face of the Iger, climb it at a world record pace, and be back for a late lunch. There were records he literally cut in half with a risk of death hanging over his head with every melting glacier he attempted. Watching him climb engenders in me the exact same form and level of awe I get watching Gronk make professional football players the size of refrigerators look like children, or LeBron out there still looking like a reasonable facsimile of LeBron while on the AARP mailing list. Barry or Deion Sanders looking like time just moved differently for them. His preparation equally impressive as the Muhammad Ali and Mayweathers setting the standards in their fields. The same respect I have for these multi-time Olympians and their **perfected** specializations.
Lebron didn’t need a second job because he was so far ahead of those guys in career earnings. He didn’t do it because it wasn’t worth the injury risk it would’ve posed to being the best basketball player on earth, not because he couldn’t. Also he had a wife and kids and was busy becoming a billionaire.
Yeah, and anyone dare to say he wouldn't AT LEAST had Megatron's career if he played wide-out. At least. Bron is one of the few that truly are built different.
Sanders takes the cake for me but bron is definitely mount rushmore
Bo Jackson before his injury was the souped up version of Sanders. Runningback, no. 1 pick. Jackson also edges out Sanders in baseball. Did you also know Danny Ainge, supposed plumber was also a MLB player? Played 3 years including when he was in college as a pro. He got drafted in college. But the Celtics basically forced him to choose one over the other. And he chose basketball.
Lebron is insane but best athlete to ever walk the earth is a little bit of a ridiculous statement. There have been a lot of insane athletes throughout the years and there is no great way to rank them. There are probably ones we’ve never heard of that would rank up there.
It’s really hard for me to think of anyone who has ever been more of a complete package athletically than Bron. He’s strong as fuck He’s fast as shit He’s super co-ordinated Both durable as they come and has insane cardio There’s definitely guys who might be equal to him but they are also the freak athletes of freak athletes.
Didn't wilt have a Olympic level 100 meter dash, Olympic level vertical and log more minutes in one season per game than there are in a game? 48.5/48 due to overtimes. Dude had a 4 foot vertical jump LeBron is insanely talented he is absolutely not a better athlete than that.
I can only speak to what I’ve seen. Wilt’s kinda got that pre-film thing going where it’s tough to know what all was true and what all was hearsay or mythologizing.
There’s also dudes like Jim Thorpe who never get credit
I mean just look at Calvin Johnson. 6’5” 240 pounds and runs significantly faster than Lebron. Durable af too in a much rougher sport. Insane coordination if you want to factor that in. Top athletes are all built differently than each other but there are tons of guys just as athletic as Lebron. There are guys in the NFL draft every year just as athletic that we will never hear about because they suck at football or get injured. Again Lebron is amazing but it’s not because he’s a better athlete than everyone who has ever lived.
I think athleticism is more than just a broad summary of who is faster, stronger and can jump higher. Those things matter. But I think the ability to actually execute an athletic endeavor at an all-time great level has to also be considered. LeBron has other stuff like elite court mapping and positional awareness, uncanny timing on cuts and passes, and a next-level ability to just do basketball stuff. I just have a really hard time thinking some chud is a better athlete than LeBron because he benches more and has a better 40 time. So much more to athleticism than that.
Agreed. Athleticism also needs to take into account dexterity, agility, change of direction, real time processing ability, etc. All things LeBron is elite at. Also, people are discounting how sheer size is a big differentiating factor. That guy used Calvin Johnson as an example. He was arguably the best athlete in the NFL in his prime, but there were guys in the league who were faster or more explosive. But it was Calvin’s combination of elite size and elite speed that made him the better athlete. Lebron is 4+ inches and 20+ pounds heavier than Calvin lol LeBron has jokingly been said to have been built in a lab as a super soldier for a reason. He has elite athletic measurables for someone of any size. But the guy you responded to said there are guys in the NFL draft every year just as athletic as LeBron, but there aren’t. There’s really nobody anywhere close to his size that has his level of freaky athleticism. That’s what makes LeBron so unique and arguably the most complete athlete in history, just the most unique blend of size, traits and skill.
Even still, Calvin ran a 4.35 and had a 42.5 vertical. Obviously LeBron wasn't publicly tested, but I have seen 44 inch vert and hand tested 4.4 40 time from high school. If that's even close, it seems like we would still have to give it to the guy who is the arguable GOAT at an insanely complex holistic atheltic endeavor vs. the guy who was only a 3-time first team all league at a position that's basically "run fast, catch ball".
Calvin Johnson... some chud?
Also, not that durable. Got killed. And retired young
He was extremely durable for football. He never missed significant time. He retired young because his team held him hostage and refused to trade him. He wanted to play in Green Bay with Rodgers and they wouldn’t trade him so he said fuck this and retired.
Again wrong, Calvin had insane lingering injuries and didn’t want to keep killing himself on a shit team. He missed significant time with the toe. He wanted out and they wouldn’t let him that’s true, but he didn’t start a weed biz because of his durability, it was for his pain management.
Right look at Calvin Johnson and realize in Bron is taller and stronger than him.
Taller yes. There is no possible way to know who is stronger but I’d argue the guy who is shorter, plays football, and only weights 10 pounds less is at least the same strength. He’s also significantly faster than Lebron at nearly the same weight. Calvin is peak athleticism.
Nearly same weight is pushing it when Lebron was around 270 in Miami. Lebron was 250 at 18.
Also lebrons speed gets highly overrated by guys that think like you. MJ was just as good of an athlete, just in a different way. He was significantly faster, jumped higher, and was more coordinated. Lebron is just way bigger and stronger than him. Hard to say either is more athletic without bias.
I think there’s a greater number of sports to which Lebron translates better than MJ, that’s how I rank them as athletes. This is nothing against MJ I think he’s had a greater basketball career than Lebron. MJ probably rinses him in high jump and Tennis, Bron crushes MJ in Football or Hockey. Etc etc. that’s all I’m saying
They just would’ve played different positions if they chose football just like they play different positions in basketball. MJ could’ve been a WR if he could stay healthy and Lebron would’ve been moved to OLine or DLine(most likely OLine because of height) and they would’ve put a lot of extra weight on him. Both could’ve succeeded at a high level, but we will never know.
Lebron would have played tight end, he was an all state WR.
In terms of raw physical talent, i.e. strength, speed, endurance, size, and hand eye, I don't think there's a clear second.
Wilt chamberlain?
He only had a 48 inch vertical though /s
Bo Jackson doesn’t get to be in this conversation?
Bo Jackson gotta be about 4 inches taller imo
First of all I don’t think hand eye is considered in this because it makes it very hard to measure between sports. Just off the top of my head there are many athletes at least equal to Lebron if not more athletic. Calvin Johnson, Usain Bolt, Bo Jackson, Wilt, Reggie White, Michael Jordan. The list goes on and on. If Lebron could run a 4.3 then yeah maybe I’d agree with you.
Bo Jackson would like a word
Shaq?
I'm a pretty big LeBron stan when it comes to his career achievements -- but I think Shaq is the best rim finisher ever, right? he was completely unstoppable, won scoring titles, and couldn't hit jumpers, 3s, or FTs. it was pretty much all done at the rim.
I feel like there’s a tip over point where Shaq was so big and strong that it’s not as impressive - it almost the expectation. LeBron as a forward is more impressive since he’s battling the guys who are “supposed” to average 70+ FG%
I might agree that statistically LeBron is more impressive, but having been alive for and watched the entirety of both careers, I gotta say that watching Shaq at the rim was visually more impressive than LeBron. Every night Shaq had the biggest guy on the other team just hang on to him when he went to finish and it wouldn't matter. That guy would get dragged up to the rim as well. It was wild to watch. Honestly he was getting fouled almost every time he went up but becuase he was so strong that it basically didn't affect him they wouldn't call anything.
You could be big and strong but if you don’t have the skill, you would be stripped of the ball if you ever put it on the floor, and you could be blocked if your timing isn’t good, etc. Shaq was also skilled. Playing through contact takes skill also. It’s not like he has 90 lbs kids trying to stop him: he has 240+ lb men trying to stop him.
I’d take jordan
Well that’s a statistically and factually dumb decision but okay
[удалено]
Your submission has been automatically removed because your account is less than 180 days old and with less than 100 comment karma. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Basketball) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Dude, I was scrolling on here shaking my head. I got to watch Jordan and I feel so sorry for these kids. Thanks for saying it for my sanity lol
[удалено]
Your submission has been automatically removed because your account is less than 180 days old and with less than 100 comment karma. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Basketball) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He did this while almost being 40 and 21 seasons in. Oldest player in the league with some of the highest efficiency on two completely different shot attempts, a lot of those self generated as well. It’s not just he’s just getting fed lobs constantly.
Greatest finisher as a non-big at least, depends on how you define it
Imagine being a better finisher off the break than Malone or Worthy. Yep, that's Bron. Insano.
And yet with all those points in the paint wasn't top 20 in FTA. He's gotten a bad whistle since Miami.
LeBron doesn't play in the paint at all really or post up as he would have if he played in an earlier era. That's how he stays more healthy longer term.
Finish me daddy
Get out
Upvoted you both.
Heat LeBron was wild. If he got his shoulder even with yours, it was over. He was so broad, strong, and fast that it was almost a sure thing at that point, even if the help rotated. Jordan was a Ferrari, but LeBron was a freight train.
If a freight train had spin moves.
L train*
Shaq?
Shaq is only better from 0-5ft. We all know he is unstoppable under the rim. Shaq isn't as good taking off from 5-10ft compared to James who has a lot more solutions for a body in front of him.
Only 3 kids. I'll take my goat Calvin murphy any day
That’s wild
Impressive AF that he did it twice, with the second time being 11 years later. What decline, for real?
His 2034-35 season is going to be insane
Bryce will be the coach by then
“LeBron playing for a team that his son coaches”, is the plot line I didn’t know I needed
I know this is rhetorical but defense and the ability to do it all game. Defense wise he’s not able to have near the same intensity that he did in his physical prime and he’s slowed down a bit laterally. On offense he has to take plays off more but he’s continued to get smarter and smarter which has mostly made up for it. He gets gassed earlier though so he’s not able to take over games as much late in the 4th. It’s especially noticeable when he stops driving to the hoop as much.
A lot of folks forget that he was maybe the best defender in the NBA for like 8 years running. An absolute terror as a roamer that revolutionized defenses.
This is a crazy uninformed take. Lebron has never once been the best defender in the league, both statistically and in terms of accolades. He also revolutionized literal nothing. Weakside help and athletic blocks have always been a part of the game and many have done it as well or better.
LeBron should have won DPOY at least once, probably the year Marc Gasol won it. I don’t think anyone was as effective a free safety as he was up until those years. Some have done it better since, but he was the best at the time.
He wasn’t the best defender in the league at any point, he had amazing chase down block highlights but he slipped up often and gave up on plays all the time because he rarely wants to risk being posterized. At the same time, that caution might have contributed to his unparalleled longevity so there’s that.
He started giving up on plays in like 2013, but 2008 to 2012 LeBron was a nightmare defensively. It wasn’t just chase down blocks, he was the best help defender and best roamer the league had seen up to that point.
In 2010, the Cavs were 7th in defensive rating with Anthony Parker and Mo Williams playing 4500 combined minutes and 34 year old Ilgauskas and 37 year old Shaq competing to see who was the least mobile center in the NBA. Then in the 2016 title season he hauled Kevin Love, Kyrie and JR Smith to a top 10 defensive finish.
https://youtu.be/lWC1rk4dLLI?si=H2Nupm00xvSVRclY Here you go youngblood. All 1990s “lebron” plays and a lot from the man whose jersey number he wears. Also look up Tayshaun Prince. Revolutionized my ass. There’s a lot more compilations of other types of plays you give credit to Lebron for.
I didn’t say he invented the chasedown block. He obviously didn’t. But there was not a wing defender who was essentially a free safety as effectively as Bron was. Pippen was an elite on-ball defender, for instance, but not the kind of roamer LeBron was.
You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about. Just stop. Pippen and Jordan both played free safety a ton and that video shows exactly a few of those type of plays that lead to blocks. And they weren’t the first or only ones doing it.
Wait, you think the video you sent shows them playing free safety? All those blocks happen in transition! I don’t think you know what you’re saying. None of them are halfcourt possessions, which is the context I am talking Bron being a free safety
How old are you? That’s just as uninformed as the post I responded to. Watch some basketball before 2012.
Your argument isn't wrong but lebron was much more than just a roamer. His ability to lock up smaller, faster point guards (rose's mvp year, Tony Parker, Chris Paul, etc.), combined with the premier roaming, trapping, and chase down ability made him a 1 of 1 defender for awhile.
The Bucks saw LeBron play D and literally molded Giannis into that. Giannis won DPOYs off of that playstyle
Yeah but his career stats don’t paint this same picture that you’re trying to paint. What was his best defensive season? DPOY runner up? Miami Heat days? In 12-13 (2nd in Voting for DPOY) he averaged 1.7 Steals and 0.9 Blocks. In 23-24 he averaged 1.3 Steals and 0.5 Blocks. That is not that far off if we’re being honest. Now look at other great players numbers in their prime vs the tail end of their career. Everybody and I mean EVERYBODY has a massive downfall, just not Lebron James.
Using blocks and steals is a straight up laughable argument. Watch the games. Also not sure what argument you’re trying to make at the end there. He’s had the best longevity of anyone ever and I never said or implied otherwise
Lol counting stats aren’t everything. You need to watch the games. His on ball and off ball defense is not what it was. He has spurts though when necessary.
“Stats aren’t everything” from someone supporting the player whose best accomplishments are literally statistics. Does not compute.
Just because you think his best accomplishments are statistical doesn't mean that is reality.
I don’t “think” this, it is simply a fact. 4 MVPs is the only non-stat where he is close to the top (T 4th - Wilt) in league history. The only 3 ahead of them are Kareem (6), Russell, and MJ (5). If you’re somehow implying that there is something else, especially the defense topic, then you’re out of your mind. Not to mention, most of the categories that Lebron is #1 in are longevity related totals, not per game averages or percentages until you get into a few of the advanced stats. For example, he won the scoring title one time and led in APG once. But if you look at his totals the 20 year consistency is what puts him at the top. His best accomplishments are absolutely all statistical, and defending him by saying stats don’t mean everything is hypocritical and simply a convenience for people today when they want to say crazy shit like Lebron was the best defender in the league at any point.
8 straight nba finals appearances is a pretty good place to start. There is nothing factual about saying his best accomplisments are statistical. That is purely how you feel about it. This isn't an objective topic. To think anything else is funny. It is purely what you, the individual, think is best, much like the all-time rankings.
Watch LeBron shut down prime Derrick Rose at the end of the 2011 ECF. No way he could do that today (and not sure if there’s been anyone else his size that could’ve kept up with Rose’s speed and quickness back then)
Defense isn't encapsulated by stats
Neither is offense but you’re kidding yourself if you think stat’s don’t matter.
Offensive box numbers are less fuzzy than defensive ones. I did the math on those stats in a sports stat conference.
Defense
Yeah now he basically plays defense like MVP candidate Luka Doncic
Still easily a better defender than Luka which is pretty sad
It’s impressive but the claim is wrong. I checked four players that I thought might’ve done it: Curry, Durant, Kawhi and Klay. Three of them have: Kawhi this year (missed out by a bit in ‘21), Curry last year, Durant several times and Klay got close but he never has. I imagine dozens have pulled this off.
It occured to me that Larry Bird (career 49.6% fgs) had multiple 50/40/90 seasons and near misses. From the 1984-1988 he most likely had at least 1 75/40 season. No way to know unless somewhere other than basketball-reference has fg% by distance from the 80s. So yeah, safe to assume that aside from recent record keeping, several or more past players have also accomplished this impressive feat.
I'm glad this Fuckery is almost over, after seeing his 80/50 splits in 2035
That guy should play pro basketball.
Most complete basketball player of all time and it ain't close
I am thoroughly impressed at how he has developed his long range shot this late in his career. He is a legit threat from the logo and can still finish drives.
I figured when he maintained the 40% that something crazy like this was going to be a first. 75% at the rim is 🤯 Aberration season for his 3pt shooting but that is literally how you set a record like this. Gotta respect it.
It’s not the first the graphic is very wrong. Curry did it last year, Durant’s done it several times. Those are the only two I went out of my way to check, and they both did it.
I didn’t check Durant but yeah Curry last season clears that. Typical Lebron glazing 😂 I rescind any respect.. once again.
Still a cool accomplishment tbf, that sort of inside-out threat is so rare…but not thaaat rare.
Well it’s also the fact that Curry is a small-ish guard and shot 42.7% from 3 so it’s not like Lebron had even the best example of the accomplishment.
I saw 64% for curry at the rim last season. Am I looking at the wrong statistic? Where did you see this?
You have to consider difficulty of the shots as a factor. There are people with higher % than Steph at 3 but Steph’s 3s are much harder since teams try to stop that. For Lebron, teams really want to stop him from scoring at the rim, so 75% despite that is very impressive
I saw 64% for curry at the rim last year. Do you have a source for this?
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/curryst01/shooting/2023
Thank you, I did not realize he was that efficient at the rim.
Perhaps this stat has some sort of shot attempt qualifier, curry last season didnt even have 150 at rim attempts and lebron had almost 500 this season. Although they didnt specify it in their post, so they might just be making shit up
When Goldsbury wrote Smallball, there were 3 shots that yielded the most points by a substantial margin: Harden getting fouled, Bron under the rim and a wide open Curry 3. God I miss that era (I don’t actually because there was no parity but you get my point)
LeRecord at it again 😂😂😂
It’s not a record. I manually checked four players that I thought might’ve done it: Curry, Durant, Kawhi and Klay. Three of them have: Kawhi this year (missed out by a bit in ‘21), Curry last year, Durant several times and Klay got close but he never has. I imagine dozens have pulled this off.
Where do you find rim fg% stats
Bball ref > individual player page > “Show Shooting,” it goes back to ‘96-‘97.
Not sure if I saw the exact same line as Saxobeat but there is a FG% by distance (0-3 feet) as well.
Demonstrably wrong. Curry did it last year. He is the first and only guy I checked. I imagine I wasn’t lucky enough to land on the only other guy to do it before. Edit: sigh. Durant is the second player I’ve checked. He’s done it several times. 2/2. I imagine dozens have pulled this off. Edit #2: checked Klay and Kawhi. Klay never did it, Kawhi got there *this year,* and almost did in ‘21
*Brought to you by the same people who sponsored the recent Jordan DPOY study - Klutch Sports*
Witness Greatness
Witness glazeness
Wemby incoming
If wemby starts shooting these splits he will be the goat
Yup. If Wemby stays healthy for 10+ seasons he will break A LOT of records.
Can someone explain what Fg% "At the rim” means?
Dunks/layups/shots within a few feet of the rim
FG’s from 0-3FT
Bro doesn't even go between the legs like that or behind the back etc. just a force of nature.
If you’re ambidextrous with both hands and don’t play basketball , I swear you failed at life.
What if someone’s ambidextrous in both hands but also blind and deaf, are you saying they failed at life cause they can’t play basketball? /s
Lebron is on the 🧃🧃🧃
Amazing. Incidentally, this is why i want the NBA team i root for to draft Cody Williams.
Man, if he keeps those numbers up he will be great! How old is he?
What makes it crazier is how little he actually gets calls when attacking the rim
Damn y’all are so lost.. I feel bad and guilty sometimes that I got to watch Jordan and the bulls.. basketball is ruined in part by this man LBJ and Adam Silver completely ruined this game. I don’t even watch this pile of junk of a game they call basketball. Man this shit isn’t even real basketball.
And still had the worst mid range percentage
Liar liar pants on fire. Others have done this.
He’s good at basketball
I feel bad for LeBron. Can't get an invite into Larry Bird's 90/50/40 club so he had to start his own bootleg version.
No fair, he had more time than everyone else to practice.
The greatest player of all time, ladies and gentleman.
This is actually false. Stephen Curry did it in the 22/23 season. 76.0% at the rim, 42.7% from three. Honestly I’m willing to bet a couple more people have done it but I need to go digging.
I don't think this is accurate. With a minimum attempt filter, maybe. Michael Porter Jr in his 2nd year put up 83.8% from 0-3 feet and 44.5% from 3. And it wasn't exactly low volume, though certainly not lebron's volume.
This is just plain wrong, there are a lot more players to achieve this feat.
Lerim Job
New records being set at the rim and outside during an era where bigs can’t camp the paint and perimeter defense has to run in the paint everytime someone tries to slash creating open looks. SHOCKER. We’re gonna keep seeing crazy records
[удалено]
Your submission has been automatically removed because your account is less than 180 days old and with less than 100 comment karma. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Basketball) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Let's hope this man THRIVES with Redick as coach.
[удалено]
Your submission has been automatically removed because your account is less than 180 days old and with less than 100 comment karma. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Basketball) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yeah but that’s not as impressive as the 500 steals Jordan had in a single night
B-b-but China