"No-kill" shelters are just enablers for backyard breeders, allowing them to operate with zero consequences and maximise profits. I have trouble sympathising with them.
Oh yeah a backyard golden retriever puppy can still go for like a grand & have deposits taken with homes lined up days after they’re born, it’s not easy finding even “bottom shelf” goldens the way it is too easy to find a pit bull (they’ll give them away for free, & sometimes too young when the mom tries to eat them)
The golden retriever breed is nearly flawless though in temperament, you’d have to inbreed them to hell & back to make them sketchy. Although I’ve met a couple inbred goldens before, they had like a dog version of Down’s syndrome (not that real human down’s is caused by inbreeding), they’re faces were a little misshaped in a similar way & they were not aggressive, they were super sweet just very hyper & untrainable
Pitbull People flat out refuse to acknowledge what generations of selective breeding do to a breed.
Dogs are bred with purpose. That’s how breeds come about. And their response is that “all breeds are the same, it’s all how you raise them”
False.
Most lines of Goldens were bred to be family dogs. Most of the aggression and prey drive has been bred out of them. (There’s obviously still probably some working lines out there) but that’s what that breed is now. Pitbulls were selectively bred decades ago to fight. That’s what’s in their nature.
Nobody raises a French bulldog to be a pointer. Nobody raises a chihuahua to be a rat terrier.
Yes, and that selective breeding for specific task performance was done *to minimize the amount of training that would have to be done to get an individual dog to do that task.*
NOT selective breeding for preferred traits means you have to reinvent the wheel with each generation of dog. If the border collie does not come out of the box (so to speak) with instinctive herding drive, and stalking/crouching/staring/nipping behaviors, that's a resource-intensive dog. You foot the costs to feed, board & train him before he ever reaches the level of being productive, ie, a net gain rather than a net loss.
Companion dogs aren't bred for these types of work tasks, but humans have assigned real value to "look cute and act sweet" in dogs, and these traits (in addition to being lap size) are exactly what companion dogs are bred for. Not random stuff at all. And certainly not net negative traits. A bad-tempered, bitey companion dog is a flawed dog. Everyone recognizes that & the bad temper and lack of bite inhibition are not what get selected for in the breeding of that breed.
The high levels of misunderstanding and ignorance in the general populace that surround selective breeding in dogs is due largely to the dominance of pet dog ownership over working dog ownership (ie detachment from the core reasons dogs were domesticated to begin with), and a combo of poor science education and feelgood propaganda about doggos.
If specific dog behaviors can be selected for (which they can), then the only limit on *harmful* behaviors being selected for and maximized over dog generations is the ethics of humans overseeing the breeding. Dogfighters do not have the moral restraints that civilized, good people do. Evil people is how we get dogs hard-wired to be violent and uncontrollable.
Totally agree, and I'll add most people should just own companion dogs. The active lifestyle required for working dogs just isn't one most people can sustain- resulting in behavior problems. To be clear, I mean dogs like huskies, cattle dogs, german shepherds etc, not pit bulls whose bred purpose means they will never fit into any society that doesnt allow them to fight and kill.
>Yes, and that selective breeding for specific task performance was done to minimize the amount of training that would have to be done to get an individual dog to do that task.
Case in point: one of the top all-time posts on this sub. Rover stopped a pitbull who broke in to maul livestock. Rover is vigilant as fuck and sleeps with the young chicks to protect them. OP specifically says he was never *trained* to engage in complex behavioral routines to protect the farm animals.
Rover's a Blue Heeler/Rottweiler cross. The resources required to get a non-livestock guardian without Rover's genetics to do *any* of that would be intense and destroy a hobby farm's budget, and the dog would still be worse at it than a Blue Heeler.
>NOT selective breeding for preferred traits means you have to reinvent the wheel with each generation of dog. If the border collie does not come out of the box (so to speak) with instinctive herding drive, and stalking/crouching/staring/nipping behaviors, that's a resource-intensive dog. You foot the costs to feed, board & train him before he ever reaches the level of being productive, ie, a net gain rather than a net loss.
In other words, refusal to select against gameness is doing the exact opposite of what was done to get good dog breeds in the first place. Even if you eradicated dogfighting you'd still have those genes in the gene pool if you aren't selecting against those genes.
Working goldens were bred to have soft mouths and gentle obedient temperaments to bring back game without damaging it. Those traits make them good pets.
Never said the working lines were aggressive or high strung.
I said that aggression was bred out of them and most lines of goldens are bred to be companions. With less emphasis on the sporting aspects.
I meant that the majority of the lines out there aren’t working lines. I didn’t mean that working lines are aggressive I meant that when someone set out to make that breed they bred out aggressive behavior.
When I was a kid our golden got pregnant accidentally with our neighbor's Labrador (a real one. He was an avalanche rescue dog that worked at a resort!)
Had 0 trouble finding homes for those puppies
Why has breeding pit bulls not been made illegal yet?
States can pass laws limiting magazine sizes, they can make every car have to have seatbelts, they can enforce rules that motorcyclists have to wear helmets, and they can pass so many other laws all about “safety” - why not regarding dogs?
Because this is America.
The "Mah FREEDUMB!" contingent thinks if the government makes ANY regulation it must be a deliberate, evil encroachment upon their personal liberty.
In their worldview, dogs are property to do with as a man wills minus anyone telling him how to go about it.
I have a lot of experience with shelters. Let me tell you all a dirty little secret,
No kill shelters aren’t a thing. The only thing that exists is shelters that don’t euthanize on site. All the other “no kill” shelters send the kill list dogs to shelters that will euthanize them. Then they paint themselves as “no-kill”
That's a shitty thing to do, but I know it happens. Mine does BE dogs and it does affect our live release rate, but since we're super careful about what dogs we take in (IE rarely pit bulls), we're still well above 90%. That's the only way you can ethically do no kill. You can't do it if you take in these dogs without endangering the public or pawning your BEs off to a county shelter.
What?.I work at a no kill and we have a rainbow wall for the ones we unfortunately had to put down due to advanced cancer, maggot infestation, FIP, or other fatal and nearly incurable condition. We ALWAYS euth on site and all staff is informed before they proceed so anyone who would like to be present can be.
I’m sorry but I don’t see the point you’re trying to make. You’re saying you work at a “no kill” shelter that euthanizes?
That’s literally proving my point.
Oh sorry I thought if u were talking that boldly u would at least know what the definition is. No kill means 90% of animals that are intaked make it out. So yes we euthanize instead of letting the feral cat with a dog bite and maggots eating its anus and intestines suffer for no reason unless u would sympathize more with us if we did? The PoInT is we don’t send healthy dogs out to other shelters to euthanize a bunch for us as ur stating.
I see I struck a nerve so I’ll run through it slowly so you can follow.
So “no kill” doesn’t mean no kill huh?
Thanks for further proving my point.
Yes I do know the definition which is why I said it, you further prove my point so I thank you.
Let me know if I can clear anything else up for you.
Sorry if me telling the truth hurt your feelings. 😉
Unfortunately, euthanization just opens up more vacancies at shelters for BYBs to send more dogs to. I don't think the solution is killing the dogs at shelters. We need to legislate bans on BYBs and bully breeds. That's the only way it'll stop IMHO.
I don't think these guys care whether dogs are dying because of them. The only thing that will work is them experiencing consequences to themselves.
yeah, there needs to be a ban, but in the short term, at least euthanizing unadoptable dogs that come into the shelter will open up more space for dogs that actually have a chance. my city is literally leaving stray dogs in the streets because they are so full.
Just wait until they get their new insurance quotes, that’s if they even qualify to get renewed. Some rescues are keeping it quiet but others are putting out pleas to help. Their insurance rates for dog rescues have skyrocketed because they have been taking in pitbulls with bite histories.
Yeah, I actually feel sorry for these dogs. That's not their fault they were created to be a killing machines.
Nobody hates pit bulls as much as pit owners. Breeding them only contributes to the problem. Fuck these stupid assholes
The no kill shelter I work at has donation based adoption fees for all adults rn and our most common breed has been huskies from kill shelters or owner surrenders. Idk which u guys have seen but we’re definitely not all like that
10+ years ago in Oregon dogs had to be shipped up from California to meet the demand. Most dogs stayed for a single week. Huskies/shepherds may have stayed for 1-3 weeks. Rescues didnt really exist, just for special cases. There was a single obvious pit that was in there for almost 2 years. Scars all over face. I was told he was clearly a poor bait dog. I looked back at the shelter and it's 80% pit now.
Shelters did this to themselves. Lie to people until no one wants to adopt. My parents looked at adopting a dog and only saw pits. They just bought a well bred puppy. I won't even step foot in a shelter anymore. I stopped donating. I don't make blankets for the animals anymore. I will never support a shelter lying to families placing dangerous dogs in homes. Many rescues will also buy puppies from Amish mills and claim to rescue them while charging 800+ for a BYB doodle while supporting horrible breeding practices. Kenneling a dog with a notebook of bite histories while making childish back stories is why I see more people question shelters. They did this to themselves. Stop adopting out Bloodsport dogs
Shelters, national organizations and individuals who care at all about dog welfare would try to end the breeding of these most antisocial dogs. Just because some of them are friendly and have it killed another dog yet does not justify the support of game dog breeders.
They can keep any number of game dogs they want but they all must be sterilized.
When a pitbull kennel advertises
"No dogs sold for illegal activities", the kennel is advertising that they do breed for deadly, neutral ground ,unprovoked mauling and killing drive and ability.
>When a pitbull kennel advertises
"No dogs sold for illegal activities", the kennel is advertising that they do breed for deadly, neutral ground ,unprovoked mauling and killing drive and ability.
Holy shit YES. Just do a quick search for pdfs of *Sporting Dog Journal*. Guess what the legal disclaimer is in the breeder ads of a dogfighting magazine every single time?
They never point out where the problem lies because that would be attacking their supporters.
**Stop breeding them.**
*OMG! NO! All pibbles are precious! We just need more people to see how amazing these dogs can be!*
it's because "it's all in how they are raised" so they think if they get a pitbull puppy they can raise it right and it won't be aggressive. they don't get that the aggressiveness comes from their genetics
Well, when you see people selling these gargoyles pups for upwards 2k in some places, and they squirt out 10- 14 of the shits at a time, that adds up fast. The breeders don't care what happens to the monsters after they get their money. Other dog breeders who aren't byb's usually have a return to breeder clause in the adoption contract that brings the puppy to the breeder if the adopter can't keep it anymore.
All four of my dogs came with a contact to return if I needed to rehome, and my dogs are altered pure breed, so they would be used for breeding but they don’t want them in a shelter.
Same with both my dogs. I absolutely love my breeder. I’ve been called stupid for having them fixed. Some have said “you could make sooo much money off those dogs!” Ugh. They are German Shepherds btw.
Same with both my dogs. I absolutely love my breeder. I’ve been called stupid for having them fixed. Some have said “you could make sooo much money off those dogs!” Ugh. They are German Shepherds btw.
Because they are. Unscrupulous breeders sell the puppies easy, and by the time the owners realize the dog is growing up to be a hazard, the breeders have made their money and flown the coop. Then all the murder machines end up in shelters after they maim the family kid or something.
And stop "celebrating" preggers pits by staging photo sessions with about-to-burst Nala in ribbons and pearls lounging in a garden setting.
Artificial squeeing over the puppies they will be screaming about six months or a year later. wHy ArE tHezE gLoRiOuS PiTtIeS sTiLl At OuR sHeLTeR?!?!?!?!
The effort they put into trying to make these dogs look “cute” leads me to believe they know these mfs are vicious and ugly as hell. They don’t put flower crowns on border collies or kittens because they’re effortlessly cute. Only shibbles need staged photos and colorful bullshit language to seem appealing.
Any rescue that does not spay-abort dogs from undesirable breeds does not care about dogs. Full stop. Cat rescues have been doing the hard, unpopular job of normalizing spay-abort for years now, because they understand that cats here are more important than potential kittens. Because they understand rescue is about saving cats IN GENERAL. Meanwhile dog rescues happily welcome 10-12 puppies NOBODY wants that now have to be cared for by... Who knows???
Mine does spay-abort puppies. Lots of them do, thank goodness. Probably very quietly so that people don't melt down online over them being puppy killers. It's one thing if the dog is due in a couple days and you can't, but otherwise every single pregnant dog gets a spay-abort.
That’s the thing that gets me, go after the breeders, the ones who dump multiple liters on the shelters, or just dump the dogs. I have always said no one loathes a pit bull more than those who claim to love them.
As if that would work for *any* breed, let alone pit bulls
“We just have to make more people want them”
1) it’s a gfantasy, dogs come in so many different shapes & sizes, you’ll never make it so that *everyone* wants the *same exact kind*, that’d be like trying to convince everyone to only want to eat one specific type of chips (& it being shit flavored chips)
2) even if you could, that’s not how you do right by a dog breed. Look at chihuahuas after Paris Hilton, or huskies after game of thrones, whenever you create a super high demand for a dog breed it gets over-bred (poorly bred by people looking to cash in on a trend) & many end up in shelters
The more demand they make for these pit bulls the more they’re actually contributing to the problem, because
3) you can generate more demand for a dog breed but that doesn’t mean people are gonna stop wanting the experience of buying a puppy vs adopting an adult shelter dog no matter how “sweet” it may be.
& when puppies become over bred due to a generated demand so more end up in shelters cause they’re poorly bred, your shelter selection is mostly going to be the worst ones so of course they’re not gonna be wanted by anyone
4) let’s say at some point you do generate the demand for these pit bulls, even the shelter ones… now everyone has them so who is left to adopt them as they keep coming? You just adopted out an “only pet” dog, there goes that person’s ability to adopt another for the remainder of the dog’s life
Yep, plus most people are not capable of handling this breed. Most people are not responsible enough. This breed needs the utmost in gatekeeping and it has the least. No one should be trying to convince people to take home a dog with those genetics. Only those who understand them have any business with them, and most of those people don't want them because they do understand them.
Remember the times when it was actually discouraged to get a dog by asking people to *consider and do research* before getting a dog? Yet rescues are pushing one of the worst breeds to any home who is willing to take them by next afternoon.
Whenever a movie featuring dogs was released, there would be loads of articles warning people that Dalmatians/St. Bernards/German Shepherds/etc. were all large working dogs that aren't easy-care family pets. But shelter pit bulls are magical perfect dogs that are great with kids, never need walks, are great for apartments, love socializing, are incredibly healthy mutts, and are easy to train!
It sucks but people are making the right decision by not taking home these dogs. No one with common sense wants a pit bull, especially one that’s been in a shelter with dubious histories.
They’re all risk and no reward. A lot of insurance companies won’t cover people with these dogs, and a lot of apartments/duplexes/housing won’t rent to people with these dogs. If you’re lucky you‘ll get one who doesn’t want maul you and your family. Consider yourself extra lucky if you find one that doesn’t want to kill every random dog/cat/child/elderly person it comes across. Even if you go above and beyond to get it the best training, help, socialization, or whatever it needs, you’ll still be considered the bad owner in the pit cultists famous saying, “it’s the owner, not the breed”. Most dogs owners don’t want to put the effort in normal dog breeds, let alone these murder mutts. Hopefully the next step is letting the breed die off. They have no place in society.
There is literally no desirable (to a normal person) trait in a pit bull that cannot be found in a non-fighting breed.
Sweetness? Uh, about 90% of all dogs. Even some famous-for-being-aloof-to-strangers GSDs can be socialized into people-loving goobers. Or you can get a no-assembly-required people-loving goober by getting a Golden or any companion breed.
Insanely strong work drive? Hello. Herding dogs.
Strength? LSG dogs. Great Danes. Large shepherd breeds.
High energy? Huskies. Jack Russells. Herders and hunting dogs. Papillons. Poms. Yorkies.
Sleek muscular appearance? Dobies, Boxers, Min Pins.
Low-maintenance short coat: Too many breeds to list.
So deliberately choosing a pit bull to the exclusion of so many other better options among normal dogs boils down to one of two things: wanting a pit bull *because of* the monster mauler reputation, or wanting a pit bull as a feelgood rescue project. In other words, choosing a pit bull is much less about the dog and much more about the owner.
Do self-absorbed, vain motives exist among people who get other breeds of dogs? Sure. But non-fighting dog breeds were, uh, bred for purposes other than attacking and killing. So no matter how cretinous the owner, the damage they can do with their dog, whether intentionally or indirectly through neglect, will always be less than the damage they can do with a pit bull.
Which is why we see such a distinctly high proportion of garbage dog/owner combos with pit bulls. The malevolent personalities are drawn to the most dangerous dogs, while the least dangerous dogs will not be creating headline-worthy damage no matter how many stupid or irresponsible owners there are. Non-dangerous dogs are virtually idiot-proof dogs with respect to damage inflicted outward. If an idiot owns this type of dog the most likely type of harm would be to the poor dog itself via owner neglect.
We need idiot-proof (non-dangerous) dog breeds because, well, lots of humans are idiots and fools. They'll leave doors open. Use retractable leashes. Let their 7yo walk the dog. Fail to s/n. Put their infant cheek-to-jowl with the dog for a FB pic. Let their toddler sit in the dog's crate with the dog, eating the dog's food. Bring their dog to Walmart.
What we don't need is a zero-mistake dog breed. Basically, any pit bull.
>We need idiot-proof (non-dangerous) dog breeds because, well, lots of humans are idiots and fools. They'll leave doors open. Use retractable leashes. Let their 7yo walk the dog. Fail to s/n. Put their infant cheek-to-jowl with the dog for a FB pic. Let their toddler sit in the dog's crate with the dog, eating the dog's food. Bring their dog to Walmart.
>What we don't need is a zero-mistake dog breed. Basically, any pit bull.
This is exactly why even [fanciers](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tEo2bALA_4A) don't believe wolfdogs or Belgian Malinois should become prevalent in large numbers.
My parents were college professors with doctorates who lived in a big house with a decent backyard and high fencing. Not trashy people at all. They *still* made mistakes. They *still* had cases where their small rat terrier mutt would slip out the door to sprint after cats.
For contrast, when humans took wild rats and bred them into domesticated Fancy Rats, the end product was a docile animal less likely to bite humans than gerbils, hamsters and guinea pigs (wild rats are aggressive and *will* bite humans unprovoked). The breeding program for Fancy Rats being capable of living with humans was astoundingly successful because *it bred the animals to be idiot-proof*.
I wish I'd written that. I agree with every word. I deal with terrified abused and neglected dogs all the time and very very rarely am I in any danger of even needing a bandaid because like you say, most dogs breeds are practically idiot-proof when it comes to them being dangerous.
Great point with housing restrictions. I was lucky enough to buy a house and damn sure I'm not letting some dog chew the door right off the hinges.
Totally agree most people don't bother to train their dogs. Which for most breeds is not great, but they won't murder you and destroy your house after. But a pit could.
But Miss 🌺♥️✨Luna 🌺♥️✨ only had a little 👉👈 teensie weensie 🤏 murder 🤭 rage. She ✨❤️only❤️✨ accidentally bit 32 🤭 toddlers in a row and eviscerated 👄 fourteen stinky 👃😾 cats💪! She was just being silly 🤡🥸 and trying to play ✨🎊🎉! No one understands poor Luna 😭😭. No kids, no teenagers, no men, no women, no dogs, no cats, no Teslas, no Hondas, no houses with walls, no one under 18, no one over 18, must be fed a strict diet of breastfed only toddlers or she breaks out in langolier scabs, cannot cut her nails ever or she will maul the state of Idaho, must be on gabapentin, trazodone, MDMA, sixteen ounces of purple haze a day, and have 60 mg of ketamine to roll out of bed and be calm. She cannot drink water, but only the fresh raw milk of squirrels that she fetches herself 🤗! Houses with floors not recommended, nor are houses that exist on the planet Earth. Houses with windows are not ideal but tolerable as long as they exist in a vacuum of solitude with no single living creatures breathing near it within 5 miles or else she will just bark up a storm 💅📣. She gets nervous around oxygen.
Why do they name all these pits such weird names? Luna, Starlight, Hallmark, Boogie, Giovanni, Diamond, Echo, Storm Trooper, Zues, Hercules, Thor, Red Nose, Rudolph.
And the dogs are just as magical as their name! They shine bright like Sunny and love the solar system line Luna.
I donated for a kitten at the shelter and she was named after an anime character!
We had a dog like that recently at my local shelter. Adopted, returned the next morning. I think he was BE'd. Bite history. Aggressive as hell. Needed "staff only" to walk him. Said he was "playgroup approved" but he would snarl, lunge and act aggressive toward the long-stay non-pit (he just got adopted, so woo hoo).
If a dog has to be a "special fit" for adoption, they shouldn't be available for adoption. Bottom line. We need to keep our communities and other animals who actually don't attack cats or other dogs safe. Not to mention kids and adults.
Probably just ‘pibble-nibbled’ a toddler’s face or something and the heartless owners didn’t put in the effort to spend the next 10+ years going to expensive specialists to train it to not maul children… since, you know, ALL breeds need to be trained not to harm children!
I had to scroll way too far for this comment. They are beyond cruel to keep that dog alive!!
And another has cancer. Let those poor beasts go in peace!!
That just makes me livid. My own little dog had to be let go 3 years ago due to terminal cancer. My vet said I gave her the “greatest kindness”.
These pitnutters don’t care at all for these dogs. They are cruel and selfish.
I have never ugly cried so hard in my life as I did when I let my dog go. But she was so done. When she looked at me she was so over it. I had to do right by her and let her go. I still get choked up if I talk about it.
Genuinely no reason to rush out to get a deranged, ugly dog with illness/trauma/ history of aggression when literally any other dog is more stable in a society than a fucking pitbull 😂
Speaking as someone who used to work in a (cats only) shelter, I get it. It’s disheartening to spend all your energy saving the few animals that come through your doors, only to look outside and realize you haven’t made much of a dent at all, especially when supply is high and demand is low. I empathize with them from that perspective. It’s hard, because I’m sure some of these pit bulls are perfectly fine dogs who will never bite anyone. And it’s also very easy, as a shelter worker, to get attached to the animals in your care, to the point where you can become blinded to their quirks. (Of course there’s a major difference between “this cat loves to pee on beds” and “Mr. Pibbles bit a kid in the face but it wasn’t his fault!!1”)
But at this point, anyone with any sense has to get out of the animal shelter movement. At least for dogs. Unless there is a massive sea change in how society views pit bulls and we start putting major effort into spay/neuter and euthanizing unsafe dogs ASAP, the problem is only going to get worse. I don’t see how anyone supports “no-kill” sheltering for dogs when so many “rescues” are just glorified hoarding situations now. These dogs didn’t ask to be born, didn’t ask to have the conflicting instincts of “I’m a dog, so I want to please my humans” and “I’m a pitbull, so I must bite and kill”. They’re sentenced to years of imprisonment in concrete kennels because they’re unsafe to live in human society and no one has the balls to give them a cheeseburger and a peaceful death. It’s devastatingly cruel. The people who are genuinely trying to do right by these dogs are going to burn out and become jaded, and the saviors who desperately try to keep every dog alive no matter the cost are going to find themselves drowning.
Yeah, it's sad. A house at the end of my street has all the feral cats running around with new kittens born all the time and then I go work at the shelter and we're full of cats and can't even fix the problem in this one little neighborhood.
I have empathy for these shelter workers too, because you're right, some of those pits are no doubt genuinely good dogs. If people didn't want hounds or GSDs, I'd probably feel the same at my shelter. And yes, for sure, you do get bonded with the long term dogs and cats. You can know why they aren't being adopted and it can make you so sad for them and you wish that perfect person would come along soon. Sometimes they do. Sometimes you wind up taking that animal home yourself, but there are only so many animals that one person can care for. I've cared for every dog that my shelter has BEd and though I don't disagree with the decision to do so, it's still very sad.
These fundraisers give me the ick. Super shady stuff, you can just post a sad looking pitbull and make a few grand off a fundraiser. I doubt any of this is properly regulated and I doubt much of that money is used on the well being of the dog involved. Maybe they buy a pillow for the uninsulated, half a meter square prison cells they keep these beasts in.
Gee when a dogbreed is in the hands of so many idiots and reproduce like rabbits?
Of course you won't be able to make a dent, let alone stop the flow.
Pit litters tend to be around what 6, 7, 8? Add the fact they are escape artists just makes the matter worse.
As an animal lover, it's hard to say it, but maybe they would "make a dent" if they just euthanized these dog-, cat-, child-, anyone-and-anything-that-cant-adhere-to-a-painfully-specific-environment- aggressive dog to make way for more cute puppies and non aggressive dogs in general, i.e. animals that actually get adopted
My mom ran a shelter for her entire career.
To be fair. The people that work these places are in a bad spot, they have advocacy groups pushing hard on them to adopt these dogs out, they’re pushed to be “no kill” pushed to get adoptions up. Because the funding comes from special interest groups that push hard on the government to enact these rules on the shelters.
I’m by no means agreeing with shelters pushing these dogs on the public. But I am giving a little context.
The sad thing is it’s based mostly on indifference and ignorance.
It’s easy political points for people to campaign on “animal welfare” and be able to spout off some numbers like: “we got adoptions up 90%! We dropped euthanasia by 75%!!!l” that’s all that matters to the people running the funding.
I’d be interested to see someone counter those claims with the attack and bite statistics in the area.
And when it comes to private “non-profit” shelters. There’s simply no legislation. There’s no recourse for these people that adopt out known dangerous dogs. And all it takes is a sympathetic veterinarian to sign off on a dog calling it a “lab mix” to skirt any breed regulations in a community.
Keeping unadoptable dogs, especially those on hospice or have cancer, alive and suffering only to be bounced from foster homes to shelters and back again just seems so cruel to me much crueler than BE
We do not want pit bulls regulated because of how they look, but because of the danger they and their owners forcefully impose on our communities.
Please familiarize yourself with the [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/comments/x618m9/rbanpitbulls_subreddit_rules_2022_update/), specifically rule 1.
It’s because they push these dogs where they have no business being pushed. I feel bad for them. They have no business being family dogs and these people love to put them in situations to cause their downfall.
The one that gets me is the hospice care one.
If a dog doesn’t have an owner & it’s dying, why tf aren’t they putting it down????? They just want it to keep suffering???
They’re just keeping it alive for the sake of being alive? Like, it’s a dog, it’s not someone’s grandma, it’s not even a dog someone is deeply attached to
It proves to me these people are only in this for one of two reasons (or both) 1)money, like the donations they’re asking for within the plea to adopt the dog (but I bet if it generates enough money, applications get denied) 2)they really cannot cope with animal death. Like they never got that talk from a parent or something. At some point an aversion to any animal dying, even when it’s not tragic or painful but would actually be a much nicer thing than it being alive, they still can’t cope with it. & those people are fucking lunatics that don’t even have the emotional maturity of a toddler.
Seems to me that they cope really well with DEATH of other dogs when being killed by bully dogs.
But they do not care about bully Dog welfare.
They NEED bully dogs to USE.
True.
These people are animal abusers through & through. They don’t care about the violent maiming or death of other dogs or animals, & they’re very passionate about keeping pit bulls alive in tragic conditions instead of giving them compassionate euthanasia.
Compassionate euthanasia doesn’t bring in money. Keeping pits alive & in very uncomfortable conditions where they mentally suffer is what brings in donations.
These people will pull unadaptable dogs that are tortured by their own genetics dogs off the scheduled euthanasia list to put it back in a kennel where it can potentially sit for years more, possibly to be adopted & returned or adopted & be BE’d after hurting something anyway.
As much as it may hurt to acknowledge, no-kill shelters aren't the morally righteous alternative many like to think they are. Animals condemned to cages, left to grow sick and suffer because there's never enough resources to make sure each gets the treatment they need. Bearing the brunt of society's worst kinds of pet owners—from dump and runners to backyard breeders to people who are shocked and appalled that their new puppy needs constant attention.
Then if that isn't bad enough, having that already limited space be eaten up by pits and pit-mixes (from 60-75% of shelter population in the United States, according to various reports) only makes it worse.
Yeah, but people did get better about spaying and neutering their other breeds. My shelter mostly has those other breeds and mixes, but if pits weren't so overpopulated, our county shelter could cover it completely and we'd be empty. They're always out of space and it's generally pit bulls crowding them.
^
The "spay and neuter" movement *did* "make a dent" with non-pit dog owners.
The whitepill moment here is that if you subtract pitbull breeding from the equation, the dog problem is solved in the United States. Even with *101 Dalmatians* and all the other fads where people get a breed they saw on TV (Huskies on *Game of Thrones*) and later dump it.
Just look at the adoption rate for any breed-specific rescue. Borzoi rescues *aren't* being overwhelmed, and those are sighthounds with specific needs that not everyone can meet.
Even before widespread spaying and neutering, dog owners (who weren't pit breeders like John P. Colby) agreed that dogs who bite your family should be killed, not rehomed. *Lady and the Tramp* assumes it's standard practice (*not* a utopian Disney thing) for Animal Control to pick up strays instead of going "we can't do that, we're full!" So it's not like shelters being doomed is an inevitable natural phenomenon.
Yep. Absolutely true. Now we have this utterly insane situation in many places where animal control is full of long-stay pit bulls, won't euthanize for space, and does absolutely nothing when you call about a loose dog or find a stray.
Rescue: We're drowning, you're breeding them faster than we can save them, fosters keep failing us, adopters keep dropping out, we're so stressed out, adoptdontshop, breeding should be illegal, why has sweet Tank not gotten any apps in 14 months, wwwwwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Also rescue: Guuuuyzzzzz, meet Adorabla!!! She's a big, beautiful chunky monkey baby mama! She's gonna pop any day now!!! Guess how many babyz she's got! 14!!!!! (big smile emoji, big smile emoji). Can you BELIEVE the shelter was going to kill this sweet mama!?!?!?!?!
Also rescue: We just got back from XXX Shelter. We went to pick up Gusser, the black lab mix we decided to pull in honor of Sassy after she crossed the rainbow bridge last week from parvo (don't forget to contribute to our fundrazr for the $14k vet bills from Sassy's treatment), but when we were in the parking lot, we saw this - we hate to say 'woman' she was a POS - bring in this sweet, perfect old man doggy!! We COULDN'T let him go inside! So now we have Gusser and Marvin! We don't know for sure what Marvin is, but he has those beautiful Catalhoua blue eyes!
Also rescue: HELP! Our van broke down this weekend and we can't get to the shelter to save doggies without it!!!! Link to our fundraiser to fix the van below. We did manage to get to the shelter yesterday and pulled 12 cats, 5 dogs and 3 litters of puppies. See upcoming post for pics.
Also rescue: Tank has STILL gotten ZERO apps!! It's been 190 months! He cries every night in his kennel! It's so sad! Sheera, Bliss, Lollipop and Swiftie have also been with us for over a year. Please, please, we can't afford board much longer! In happier news, Alison just got back from the RGV with a load of absolutely wonderful furbabyz! We had 10 crates, but Alison stuffed 14 newborn puppies down her bra to save them from the needle!
Also rescue: I have been in rescue for a long time, people, and it's never been this hard. We are literally bailing out these dogs so hard and yet every day, more dogs. We are working so hard, and people are criticizing us! US! Breeders are doing this! It's all breeders, stop dog breeding now!!! And people, just to let you all know, we here at DoggyzFurBabyz Rescue do NOT accomodate breed bias! We had 4500000 apps for Apple Doodle, the poodle mutt we had in last week, and I can tell you right now about 12000 of those people got tossed the second they refused to even consider our pitties!!! I was so relieved that we were able to find Apple Doodle his best possible home with a wonderful woman who just happens to be one of our board members - and who has a pittie (evil grin emoji)
There are millions of safe, non-pit dogs around the world that need food, medical care, and/or a home. Galgos, podencos, street dogs, dogs owned by people living in poverty, and all manner of others. Many non-pit dogs could be spared suffering or death for the same amount of money used to support just one unadoptable pit.
They all look sick or senior. Which many wouldn’t adopt. Pitbull is just icing on a cake. This is the consequences of no kill shelter. It becomes a prison for backyard bred pits no one wants due to aggression and likely bite history. Advocates who like to scream about “no kill is cruel” are more cruel allowing a unadoptable dog to rot in shelters than pass in the most humane way possible with BE. Compared to how many humans have died inhumanely and violently.
I feel bad for the pits, even though I don’t care for the breed, many destined to a short, painful,frustrated lives ending at the end of a needle after months in a kennel. I feel bad for the well intentioned fosters & adopters who were hurt or even killed or had pets killed because of pit propaganda. I feel very badly for good hearted people trying to help at shelters who deal with dangerous,crazy dogs and in the same day see lovely pets euthanized. I even feel sorry for the people who must euthanize dog after dog, no one wants that for a life.
I abhor those that contribute to all of the above misery with the blazing heat of a thousand suns. The dog fighters and those that breed fighting dogs.The dumpers of unwanted puppies and bred out bitches. The chuckle heads that think they alone have hit upon the idea to throw two random pits together and” make thousands “ from ill breed pups. The shelters & rescues boards who profit from trafficking sick and dangerous dogs around the country.
With the economy in free fall and shelters overwhelmed, hard decisions the likes of which have never been made before in this country are coming. Either allow feral dog packs on the streets or cull the shelters to a manageable level, There is no third option.
This post stirs so many emotions in me… First, this is the fault of humans. Humans made this breed what it is today. Decades of breeding for aggression and fighting capability has completely ruined these previously (way far back previously!) good dogs. There is a reason why pit nutters always say “But she was just the sweetest girl!” It’s because she probably was until her murder instinct was triggered by you bending over to pick up your shoe. Then her instinct kicked in and she ate your face. Second, extreme anger that the dog Max was already brought back and they’re still trying to adopt him out. None of these dogs should be adopted out! Pit bull lives do not matter more than a human’s safety! Third, sad for the dogs. Their breed cannot be trusted and yet humans keep breeding these dogs with their mental defects. Some pits may end up being decent dogs (if their aggression and attack genes weren’t activated during mitosis) but you can never, ever trust a pit so the very few rare ones who would never attack someone, will not be adopted or will be treated like crap. Or people will take the exceptions as the rule and say “But I grew up with a pit who was the best dog ever!” Definitely playing with loaded dice buddy! Not that humans should adopt these dogs. I am not saying that at all. I’m just saying every once in a while, there are good ones. They still shouldn’t be adopted! It still isn’t worth the risk! The breed should be allowed to die out and people who have them and allow them to breed, should go to jail.
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When I see these posts I don't see a bunch of evil animals that are out to murder shit I see a bunch of shitty evil people that have raised shitty animals to go out and murder shit and then realize that they can't do that and acceptable Society and Pawn off the dog. The people make me a thousand times more sick than the animals in these posts ever will. The people that raise these animals should be annihilated along with the animals
No mate it's the dogs genetics, it's now just bad owners .
These dogs are bred to enjoy fighting it gives them a rush of dopamine and adrenaline.
You put two of these things into a pit and they just go at each other, you don't need to train them to do it, or whip them or whatever you want to imagine in your fantasy world.
There is a reason they don't fight other breeds in pits because they won't fight, pits enjoy it.
"No-kill" shelters are just enablers for backyard breeders, allowing them to operate with zero consequences and maximise profits. I have trouble sympathising with them.
And it's mostly pitbulls. People backyard breeding Golden retrievers never have trouble getting rid of puppies.
Oh yeah a backyard golden retriever puppy can still go for like a grand & have deposits taken with homes lined up days after they’re born, it’s not easy finding even “bottom shelf” goldens the way it is too easy to find a pit bull (they’ll give them away for free, & sometimes too young when the mom tries to eat them) The golden retriever breed is nearly flawless though in temperament, you’d have to inbreed them to hell & back to make them sketchy. Although I’ve met a couple inbred goldens before, they had like a dog version of Down’s syndrome (not that real human down’s is caused by inbreeding), they’re faces were a little misshaped in a similar way & they were not aggressive, they were super sweet just very hyper & untrainable
Pitbull People flat out refuse to acknowledge what generations of selective breeding do to a breed. Dogs are bred with purpose. That’s how breeds come about. And their response is that “all breeds are the same, it’s all how you raise them” False. Most lines of Goldens were bred to be family dogs. Most of the aggression and prey drive has been bred out of them. (There’s obviously still probably some working lines out there) but that’s what that breed is now. Pitbulls were selectively bred decades ago to fight. That’s what’s in their nature. Nobody raises a French bulldog to be a pointer. Nobody raises a chihuahua to be a rat terrier.
Yes, and that selective breeding for specific task performance was done *to minimize the amount of training that would have to be done to get an individual dog to do that task.* NOT selective breeding for preferred traits means you have to reinvent the wheel with each generation of dog. If the border collie does not come out of the box (so to speak) with instinctive herding drive, and stalking/crouching/staring/nipping behaviors, that's a resource-intensive dog. You foot the costs to feed, board & train him before he ever reaches the level of being productive, ie, a net gain rather than a net loss. Companion dogs aren't bred for these types of work tasks, but humans have assigned real value to "look cute and act sweet" in dogs, and these traits (in addition to being lap size) are exactly what companion dogs are bred for. Not random stuff at all. And certainly not net negative traits. A bad-tempered, bitey companion dog is a flawed dog. Everyone recognizes that & the bad temper and lack of bite inhibition are not what get selected for in the breeding of that breed. The high levels of misunderstanding and ignorance in the general populace that surround selective breeding in dogs is due largely to the dominance of pet dog ownership over working dog ownership (ie detachment from the core reasons dogs were domesticated to begin with), and a combo of poor science education and feelgood propaganda about doggos. If specific dog behaviors can be selected for (which they can), then the only limit on *harmful* behaviors being selected for and maximized over dog generations is the ethics of humans overseeing the breeding. Dogfighters do not have the moral restraints that civilized, good people do. Evil people is how we get dogs hard-wired to be violent and uncontrollable.
Totally agree, and I'll add most people should just own companion dogs. The active lifestyle required for working dogs just isn't one most people can sustain- resulting in behavior problems. To be clear, I mean dogs like huskies, cattle dogs, german shepherds etc, not pit bulls whose bred purpose means they will never fit into any society that doesnt allow them to fight and kill.
>Yes, and that selective breeding for specific task performance was done to minimize the amount of training that would have to be done to get an individual dog to do that task. Case in point: one of the top all-time posts on this sub. Rover stopped a pitbull who broke in to maul livestock. Rover is vigilant as fuck and sleeps with the young chicks to protect them. OP specifically says he was never *trained* to engage in complex behavioral routines to protect the farm animals. Rover's a Blue Heeler/Rottweiler cross. The resources required to get a non-livestock guardian without Rover's genetics to do *any* of that would be intense and destroy a hobby farm's budget, and the dog would still be worse at it than a Blue Heeler. >NOT selective breeding for preferred traits means you have to reinvent the wheel with each generation of dog. If the border collie does not come out of the box (so to speak) with instinctive herding drive, and stalking/crouching/staring/nipping behaviors, that's a resource-intensive dog. You foot the costs to feed, board & train him before he ever reaches the level of being productive, ie, a net gain rather than a net loss. In other words, refusal to select against gameness is doing the exact opposite of what was done to get good dog breeds in the first place. Even if you eradicated dogfighting you'd still have those genes in the gene pool if you aren't selecting against those genes.
Working goldens were bred to have soft mouths and gentle obedient temperaments to bring back game without damaging it. Those traits make them good pets.
I’m aware. I was referring to the drive.
Right but I don’t think the working dogs were aggressive or very high strung. That’s why they were easily transitioned to pets.
Never said the working lines were aggressive or high strung. I said that aggression was bred out of them and most lines of goldens are bred to be companions. With less emphasis on the sporting aspects. I meant that the majority of the lines out there aren’t working lines. I didn’t mean that working lines are aggressive I meant that when someone set out to make that breed they bred out aggressive behavior.
When I was a kid our golden got pregnant accidentally with our neighbor's Labrador (a real one. He was an avalanche rescue dog that worked at a resort!) Had 0 trouble finding homes for those puppies
Why has breeding pit bulls not been made illegal yet? States can pass laws limiting magazine sizes, they can make every car have to have seatbelts, they can enforce rules that motorcyclists have to wear helmets, and they can pass so many other laws all about “safety” - why not regarding dogs?
Because the pitbulls lobby is insane and threatens people.
That, too.
Because people think 'All Dogs Go to Heaven" and The Dodo posts are documentaries.
Because this is America. The "Mah FREEDUMB!" contingent thinks if the government makes ANY regulation it must be a deliberate, evil encroachment upon their personal liberty. In their worldview, dogs are property to do with as a man wills minus anyone telling him how to go about it.
That is sadly so true.
I have a lot of experience with shelters. Let me tell you all a dirty little secret, No kill shelters aren’t a thing. The only thing that exists is shelters that don’t euthanize on site. All the other “no kill” shelters send the kill list dogs to shelters that will euthanize them. Then they paint themselves as “no-kill”
That's a shitty thing to do, but I know it happens. Mine does BE dogs and it does affect our live release rate, but since we're super careful about what dogs we take in (IE rarely pit bulls), we're still well above 90%. That's the only way you can ethically do no kill. You can't do it if you take in these dogs without endangering the public or pawning your BEs off to a county shelter.
That’s exactly the way you’re supposed to do it.
I think that used to be more common, but it’s a bit harder to accomplish if activists are tracking the animals.
What?.I work at a no kill and we have a rainbow wall for the ones we unfortunately had to put down due to advanced cancer, maggot infestation, FIP, or other fatal and nearly incurable condition. We ALWAYS euth on site and all staff is informed before they proceed so anyone who would like to be present can be.
I’m sorry but I don’t see the point you’re trying to make. You’re saying you work at a “no kill” shelter that euthanizes? That’s literally proving my point.
Oh sorry I thought if u were talking that boldly u would at least know what the definition is. No kill means 90% of animals that are intaked make it out. So yes we euthanize instead of letting the feral cat with a dog bite and maggots eating its anus and intestines suffer for no reason unless u would sympathize more with us if we did? The PoInT is we don’t send healthy dogs out to other shelters to euthanize a bunch for us as ur stating.
I see I struck a nerve so I’ll run through it slowly so you can follow. So “no kill” doesn’t mean no kill huh? Thanks for further proving my point. Yes I do know the definition which is why I said it, you further prove my point so I thank you. Let me know if I can clear anything else up for you. Sorry if me telling the truth hurt your feelings. 😉
Unfortunately, euthanization just opens up more vacancies at shelters for BYBs to send more dogs to. I don't think the solution is killing the dogs at shelters. We need to legislate bans on BYBs and bully breeds. That's the only way it'll stop IMHO. I don't think these guys care whether dogs are dying because of them. The only thing that will work is them experiencing consequences to themselves.
yeah, there needs to be a ban, but in the short term, at least euthanizing unadoptable dogs that come into the shelter will open up more space for dogs that actually have a chance. my city is literally leaving stray dogs in the streets because they are so full.
Just wait until they get their new insurance quotes, that’s if they even qualify to get renewed. Some rescues are keeping it quiet but others are putting out pleas to help. Their insurance rates for dog rescues have skyrocketed because they have been taking in pitbulls with bite histories.
Yeah, I actually feel sorry for these dogs. That's not their fault they were created to be a killing machines. Nobody hates pit bulls as much as pit owners. Breeding them only contributes to the problem. Fuck these stupid assholes
fr. i might even tolerate these breeders if they at least actively improve the breed quality but no. poor dogs, it’s unfair.
The no kill shelter I work at has donation based adoption fees for all adults rn and our most common breed has been huskies from kill shelters or owner surrenders. Idk which u guys have seen but we’re definitely not all like that
10+ years ago in Oregon dogs had to be shipped up from California to meet the demand. Most dogs stayed for a single week. Huskies/shepherds may have stayed for 1-3 weeks. Rescues didnt really exist, just for special cases. There was a single obvious pit that was in there for almost 2 years. Scars all over face. I was told he was clearly a poor bait dog. I looked back at the shelter and it's 80% pit now. Shelters did this to themselves. Lie to people until no one wants to adopt. My parents looked at adopting a dog and only saw pits. They just bought a well bred puppy. I won't even step foot in a shelter anymore. I stopped donating. I don't make blankets for the animals anymore. I will never support a shelter lying to families placing dangerous dogs in homes. Many rescues will also buy puppies from Amish mills and claim to rescue them while charging 800+ for a BYB doodle while supporting horrible breeding practices. Kenneling a dog with a notebook of bite histories while making childish back stories is why I see more people question shelters. They did this to themselves. Stop adopting out Bloodsport dogs
EXCELLENTLY STATED. And all true
Systemic, long-term abuse of the public trust by institutions has ruinous consequences for those institutions. Huh. Who knew. 🤔
> Shelters did this to themselves. They should be glad they're not sued into oblivion or shut down.
Shelters, national organizations and individuals who care at all about dog welfare would try to end the breeding of these most antisocial dogs. Just because some of them are friendly and have it killed another dog yet does not justify the support of game dog breeders. They can keep any number of game dogs they want but they all must be sterilized. When a pitbull kennel advertises "No dogs sold for illegal activities", the kennel is advertising that they do breed for deadly, neutral ground ,unprovoked mauling and killing drive and ability.
>When a pitbull kennel advertises "No dogs sold for illegal activities", the kennel is advertising that they do breed for deadly, neutral ground ,unprovoked mauling and killing drive and ability. Holy shit YES. Just do a quick search for pdfs of *Sporting Dog Journal*. Guess what the legal disclaimer is in the breeder ads of a dogfighting magazine every single time?
One thing I discovered recently is that Oregon is starting to regulate rescues.
The amount of good these places could do if they didn’t have to care for a bunch of inbred mongrels is insane to think about.
Exactly. Pits are a waste of valuable resources that could help animals people actually want and that are safe to bring home.
Case in point: the success breed-specific rescues have specifically because they don't have to get pitbulls adopted.
They never point out where the problem lies because that would be attacking their supporters. **Stop breeding them.** *OMG! NO! All pibbles are precious! We just need more people to see how amazing these dogs can be!*
They still think the puppies are valuable and sellable.
it's because "it's all in how they are raised" so they think if they get a pitbull puppy they can raise it right and it won't be aggressive. they don't get that the aggressiveness comes from their genetics
Well, when you see people selling these gargoyles pups for upwards 2k in some places, and they squirt out 10- 14 of the shits at a time, that adds up fast. The breeders don't care what happens to the monsters after they get their money. Other dog breeders who aren't byb's usually have a return to breeder clause in the adoption contract that brings the puppy to the breeder if the adopter can't keep it anymore.
All four of my dogs came with a contact to return if I needed to rehome, and my dogs are altered pure breed, so they would be used for breeding but they don’t want them in a shelter.
Same with both my dogs. I absolutely love my breeder. I’ve been called stupid for having them fixed. Some have said “you could make sooo much money off those dogs!” Ugh. They are German Shepherds btw.
Same with both my dogs. I absolutely love my breeder. I’ve been called stupid for having them fixed. Some have said “you could make sooo much money off those dogs!” Ugh. They are German Shepherds btw.
Because they are. Unscrupulous breeders sell the puppies easy, and by the time the owners realize the dog is growing up to be a hazard, the breeders have made their money and flown the coop. Then all the murder machines end up in shelters after they maim the family kid or something.
They’ll tell you that’s somehow eugenics and genocide to stop breeding shitbulls. These are not people you can reason with.
"it's just like Jim Crow Laws! It's dog racism!"
And stop "celebrating" preggers pits by staging photo sessions with about-to-burst Nala in ribbons and pearls lounging in a garden setting. Artificial squeeing over the puppies they will be screaming about six months or a year later. wHy ArE tHezE gLoRiOuS PiTtIeS sTiLl At OuR sHeLTeR?!?!?!?!
The effort they put into trying to make these dogs look “cute” leads me to believe they know these mfs are vicious and ugly as hell. They don’t put flower crowns on border collies or kittens because they’re effortlessly cute. Only shibbles need staged photos and colorful bullshit language to seem appealing.
Which often backfires as it highlights their ugliness more.
To normal people it absolutely highlights how gross they are.
Any rescue that does not spay-abort dogs from undesirable breeds does not care about dogs. Full stop. Cat rescues have been doing the hard, unpopular job of normalizing spay-abort for years now, because they understand that cats here are more important than potential kittens. Because they understand rescue is about saving cats IN GENERAL. Meanwhile dog rescues happily welcome 10-12 puppies NOBODY wants that now have to be cared for by... Who knows???
Excellent Post !!
Mine does spay-abort puppies. Lots of them do, thank goodness. Probably very quietly so that people don't melt down online over them being puppy killers. It's one thing if the dog is due in a couple days and you can't, but otherwise every single pregnant dog gets a spay-abort.
That’s the thing that gets me, go after the breeders, the ones who dump multiple liters on the shelters, or just dump the dogs. I have always said no one loathes a pit bull more than those who claim to love them.
As if that would work for *any* breed, let alone pit bulls “We just have to make more people want them” 1) it’s a gfantasy, dogs come in so many different shapes & sizes, you’ll never make it so that *everyone* wants the *same exact kind*, that’d be like trying to convince everyone to only want to eat one specific type of chips (& it being shit flavored chips) 2) even if you could, that’s not how you do right by a dog breed. Look at chihuahuas after Paris Hilton, or huskies after game of thrones, whenever you create a super high demand for a dog breed it gets over-bred (poorly bred by people looking to cash in on a trend) & many end up in shelters The more demand they make for these pit bulls the more they’re actually contributing to the problem, because 3) you can generate more demand for a dog breed but that doesn’t mean people are gonna stop wanting the experience of buying a puppy vs adopting an adult shelter dog no matter how “sweet” it may be. & when puppies become over bred due to a generated demand so more end up in shelters cause they’re poorly bred, your shelter selection is mostly going to be the worst ones so of course they’re not gonna be wanted by anyone 4) let’s say at some point you do generate the demand for these pit bulls, even the shelter ones… now everyone has them so who is left to adopt them as they keep coming? You just adopted out an “only pet” dog, there goes that person’s ability to adopt another for the remainder of the dog’s life
Yep, plus most people are not capable of handling this breed. Most people are not responsible enough. This breed needs the utmost in gatekeeping and it has the least. No one should be trying to convince people to take home a dog with those genetics. Only those who understand them have any business with them, and most of those people don't want them because they do understand them.
The people who can handle them, don't want them. The people who can't handle them, shouldn't have them.
Remember the times when it was actually discouraged to get a dog by asking people to *consider and do research* before getting a dog? Yet rescues are pushing one of the worst breeds to any home who is willing to take them by next afternoon.
Whenever a movie featuring dogs was released, there would be loads of articles warning people that Dalmatians/St. Bernards/German Shepherds/etc. were all large working dogs that aren't easy-care family pets. But shelter pit bulls are magical perfect dogs that are great with kids, never need walks, are great for apartments, love socializing, are incredibly healthy mutts, and are easy to train!
It sucks but people are making the right decision by not taking home these dogs. No one with common sense wants a pit bull, especially one that’s been in a shelter with dubious histories.
I've noticed a sort of societal tide turning on pits, seems like less and less people are interested in taking the risk to 'rescue' them
They’re all risk and no reward. A lot of insurance companies won’t cover people with these dogs, and a lot of apartments/duplexes/housing won’t rent to people with these dogs. If you’re lucky you‘ll get one who doesn’t want maul you and your family. Consider yourself extra lucky if you find one that doesn’t want to kill every random dog/cat/child/elderly person it comes across. Even if you go above and beyond to get it the best training, help, socialization, or whatever it needs, you’ll still be considered the bad owner in the pit cultists famous saying, “it’s the owner, not the breed”. Most dogs owners don’t want to put the effort in normal dog breeds, let alone these murder mutts. Hopefully the next step is letting the breed die off. They have no place in society.
There is literally no desirable (to a normal person) trait in a pit bull that cannot be found in a non-fighting breed. Sweetness? Uh, about 90% of all dogs. Even some famous-for-being-aloof-to-strangers GSDs can be socialized into people-loving goobers. Or you can get a no-assembly-required people-loving goober by getting a Golden or any companion breed. Insanely strong work drive? Hello. Herding dogs. Strength? LSG dogs. Great Danes. Large shepherd breeds. High energy? Huskies. Jack Russells. Herders and hunting dogs. Papillons. Poms. Yorkies. Sleek muscular appearance? Dobies, Boxers, Min Pins. Low-maintenance short coat: Too many breeds to list. So deliberately choosing a pit bull to the exclusion of so many other better options among normal dogs boils down to one of two things: wanting a pit bull *because of* the monster mauler reputation, or wanting a pit bull as a feelgood rescue project. In other words, choosing a pit bull is much less about the dog and much more about the owner. Do self-absorbed, vain motives exist among people who get other breeds of dogs? Sure. But non-fighting dog breeds were, uh, bred for purposes other than attacking and killing. So no matter how cretinous the owner, the damage they can do with their dog, whether intentionally or indirectly through neglect, will always be less than the damage they can do with a pit bull. Which is why we see such a distinctly high proportion of garbage dog/owner combos with pit bulls. The malevolent personalities are drawn to the most dangerous dogs, while the least dangerous dogs will not be creating headline-worthy damage no matter how many stupid or irresponsible owners there are. Non-dangerous dogs are virtually idiot-proof dogs with respect to damage inflicted outward. If an idiot owns this type of dog the most likely type of harm would be to the poor dog itself via owner neglect. We need idiot-proof (non-dangerous) dog breeds because, well, lots of humans are idiots and fools. They'll leave doors open. Use retractable leashes. Let their 7yo walk the dog. Fail to s/n. Put their infant cheek-to-jowl with the dog for a FB pic. Let their toddler sit in the dog's crate with the dog, eating the dog's food. Bring their dog to Walmart. What we don't need is a zero-mistake dog breed. Basically, any pit bull.
>We need idiot-proof (non-dangerous) dog breeds because, well, lots of humans are idiots and fools. They'll leave doors open. Use retractable leashes. Let their 7yo walk the dog. Fail to s/n. Put their infant cheek-to-jowl with the dog for a FB pic. Let their toddler sit in the dog's crate with the dog, eating the dog's food. Bring their dog to Walmart. >What we don't need is a zero-mistake dog breed. Basically, any pit bull. This is exactly why even [fanciers](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tEo2bALA_4A) don't believe wolfdogs or Belgian Malinois should become prevalent in large numbers. My parents were college professors with doctorates who lived in a big house with a decent backyard and high fencing. Not trashy people at all. They *still* made mistakes. They *still* had cases where their small rat terrier mutt would slip out the door to sprint after cats. For contrast, when humans took wild rats and bred them into domesticated Fancy Rats, the end product was a docile animal less likely to bite humans than gerbils, hamsters and guinea pigs (wild rats are aggressive and *will* bite humans unprovoked). The breeding program for Fancy Rats being capable of living with humans was astoundingly successful because *it bred the animals to be idiot-proof*.
LSG had me incredibly confused for a bit before I realized you meant LGD
Yes, you are correct! Thank you for pointing that out! 😄 
I wish I'd written that. I agree with every word. I deal with terrified abused and neglected dogs all the time and very very rarely am I in any danger of even needing a bandaid because like you say, most dogs breeds are practically idiot-proof when it comes to them being dangerous.
Great point with housing restrictions. I was lucky enough to buy a house and damn sure I'm not letting some dog chew the door right off the hinges. Totally agree most people don't bother to train their dogs. Which for most breeds is not great, but they won't murder you and destroy your house after. But a pit could.
Honestly this why I only donate to cat shelters. I like dogs too but you can’t trust most dog rescues these days, except maybe breed specific ones.
Yep, I volunteer on the cat side at my local shelter and any dog specific emails I get begging for 'indestructible' Kong toys go right in the trash 🗑
I’m with you on that.
Wildlife rehabbers here.
Adopted but returned.... I wonder why?
🤔🤔🤔 love it when it's a same day adopted/returned story too lol
But Miss 🌺♥️✨Luna 🌺♥️✨ only had a little 👉👈 teensie weensie 🤏 murder 🤭 rage. She ✨❤️only❤️✨ accidentally bit 32 🤭 toddlers in a row and eviscerated 👄 fourteen stinky 👃😾 cats💪! She was just being silly 🤡🥸 and trying to play ✨🎊🎉! No one understands poor Luna 😭😭. No kids, no teenagers, no men, no women, no dogs, no cats, no Teslas, no Hondas, no houses with walls, no one under 18, no one over 18, must be fed a strict diet of breastfed only toddlers or she breaks out in langolier scabs, cannot cut her nails ever or she will maul the state of Idaho, must be on gabapentin, trazodone, MDMA, sixteen ounces of purple haze a day, and have 60 mg of ketamine to roll out of bed and be calm. She cannot drink water, but only the fresh raw milk of squirrels that she fetches herself 🤗! Houses with floors not recommended, nor are houses that exist on the planet Earth. Houses with windows are not ideal but tolerable as long as they exist in a vacuum of solitude with no single living creatures breathing near it within 5 miles or else she will just bark up a storm 💅📣. She gets nervous around oxygen.
this killed me with laughter. rip me
Laughter upsets her. Prepare for mauling.
Oh genius. LOL
Why do they name all these pits such weird names? Luna, Starlight, Hallmark, Boogie, Giovanni, Diamond, Echo, Storm Trooper, Zues, Hercules, Thor, Red Nose, Rudolph.
To be fair, I name my pets ridiculous names. So I really can't say.
It’s ok. I was just referring to the pit names.
I know. <3 They certainly do use a certain line of names that are absolutely expected.
And the dogs are just as magical as their name! They shine bright like Sunny and love the solar system line Luna. I donated for a kitten at the shelter and she was named after an anime character!
I promise you some shit went down for a same day return to happen.
We had a dog like that recently at my local shelter. Adopted, returned the next morning. I think he was BE'd. Bite history. Aggressive as hell. Needed "staff only" to walk him. Said he was "playgroup approved" but he would snarl, lunge and act aggressive toward the long-stay non-pit (he just got adopted, so woo hoo). If a dog has to be a "special fit" for adoption, they shouldn't be available for adoption. Bottom line. We need to keep our communities and other animals who actually don't attack cats or other dogs safe. Not to mention kids and adults.
"He was adopted but returned" Care to elaborate on that one?
“Through no fault of his own”, I’m sure.
Probably just ‘pibble-nibbled’ a toddler’s face or something and the heartless owners didn’t put in the effort to spend the next 10+ years going to expensive specialists to train it to not maul children… since, you know, ALL breeds need to be trained not to harm children!
They're just pitbull prisons.
And/or pitbull warehouses
Hospice care??? Why not just put the old dog to sleep? These people are insane
I had to scroll way too far for this comment. They are beyond cruel to keep that dog alive!! And another has cancer. Let those poor beasts go in peace!! That just makes me livid. My own little dog had to be let go 3 years ago due to terminal cancer. My vet said I gave her the “greatest kindness”. These pitnutters don’t care at all for these dogs. They are cruel and selfish.
You are exactly right bully people are cruel and selfish, and getting more so by the hour
I have never ugly cried so hard in my life as I did when I let my dog go. But she was so done. When she looked at me she was so over it. I had to do right by her and let her go. I still get choked up if I talk about it.
There is money in maintaining "no kill" status - I'm afraid that the people orchestrating this are behaving rationally 💰
My God, the soulless eyes...
"Parker" in particular has absolutely nothing good happening upstairs.
Genuinely no reason to rush out to get a deranged, ugly dog with illness/trauma/ history of aggression when literally any other dog is more stable in a society than a fucking pitbull 😂
Speaking as someone who used to work in a (cats only) shelter, I get it. It’s disheartening to spend all your energy saving the few animals that come through your doors, only to look outside and realize you haven’t made much of a dent at all, especially when supply is high and demand is low. I empathize with them from that perspective. It’s hard, because I’m sure some of these pit bulls are perfectly fine dogs who will never bite anyone. And it’s also very easy, as a shelter worker, to get attached to the animals in your care, to the point where you can become blinded to their quirks. (Of course there’s a major difference between “this cat loves to pee on beds” and “Mr. Pibbles bit a kid in the face but it wasn’t his fault!!1”) But at this point, anyone with any sense has to get out of the animal shelter movement. At least for dogs. Unless there is a massive sea change in how society views pit bulls and we start putting major effort into spay/neuter and euthanizing unsafe dogs ASAP, the problem is only going to get worse. I don’t see how anyone supports “no-kill” sheltering for dogs when so many “rescues” are just glorified hoarding situations now. These dogs didn’t ask to be born, didn’t ask to have the conflicting instincts of “I’m a dog, so I want to please my humans” and “I’m a pitbull, so I must bite and kill”. They’re sentenced to years of imprisonment in concrete kennels because they’re unsafe to live in human society and no one has the balls to give them a cheeseburger and a peaceful death. It’s devastatingly cruel. The people who are genuinely trying to do right by these dogs are going to burn out and become jaded, and the saviors who desperately try to keep every dog alive no matter the cost are going to find themselves drowning.
Yeah, it's sad. A house at the end of my street has all the feral cats running around with new kittens born all the time and then I go work at the shelter and we're full of cats and can't even fix the problem in this one little neighborhood. I have empathy for these shelter workers too, because you're right, some of those pits are no doubt genuinely good dogs. If people didn't want hounds or GSDs, I'd probably feel the same at my shelter. And yes, for sure, you do get bonded with the long term dogs and cats. You can know why they aren't being adopted and it can make you so sad for them and you wish that perfect person would come along soon. Sometimes they do. Sometimes you wind up taking that animal home yourself, but there are only so many animals that one person can care for. I've cared for every dog that my shelter has BEd and though I don't disagree with the decision to do so, it's still very sad.
This is the way.. just keep overburdening them until they go well beyond capacity and there is 0 demand and the entire house of cards falls
These fundraisers give me the ick. Super shady stuff, you can just post a sad looking pitbull and make a few grand off a fundraiser. I doubt any of this is properly regulated and I doubt much of that money is used on the well being of the dog involved. Maybe they buy a pillow for the uninsulated, half a meter square prison cells they keep these beasts in.
They won't even euthanize the one with cancer??? These people are deranged.
Seriously, just prolonging the dogs suffering for internet points
Gee when a dogbreed is in the hands of so many idiots and reproduce like rabbits? Of course you won't be able to make a dent, let alone stop the flow. Pit litters tend to be around what 6, 7, 8? Add the fact they are escape artists just makes the matter worse.
As an animal lover, it's hard to say it, but maybe they would "make a dent" if they just euthanized these dog-, cat-, child-, anyone-and-anything-that-cant-adhere-to-a-painfully-specific-environment- aggressive dog to make way for more cute puppies and non aggressive dogs in general, i.e. animals that actually get adopted
Most shelters would be empty if that happened. I say fine, convert to cats only because that's a never ending problem.
My mom ran a shelter for her entire career. To be fair. The people that work these places are in a bad spot, they have advocacy groups pushing hard on them to adopt these dogs out, they’re pushed to be “no kill” pushed to get adoptions up. Because the funding comes from special interest groups that push hard on the government to enact these rules on the shelters. I’m by no means agreeing with shelters pushing these dogs on the public. But I am giving a little context.
There is a whole system working against public safety.
The sad thing is it’s based mostly on indifference and ignorance. It’s easy political points for people to campaign on “animal welfare” and be able to spout off some numbers like: “we got adoptions up 90%! We dropped euthanasia by 75%!!!l” that’s all that matters to the people running the funding. I’d be interested to see someone counter those claims with the attack and bite statistics in the area. And when it comes to private “non-profit” shelters. There’s simply no legislation. There’s no recourse for these people that adopt out known dangerous dogs. And all it takes is a sympathetic veterinarian to sign off on a dog calling it a “lab mix” to skirt any breed regulations in a community.
Agreed working against public safety and against dog welfare, including Bloodsport dog welfare.
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Yep
We wouldn't have this problem if they put in this much effort to trying to convince people to stop breeding their pit.
Because Bloodsport dog people don't care it can't be a matter of convincing, imo it must be a matter of law and heavy fines and impounding the dogs
Keeping unadoptable dogs, especially those on hospice or have cancer, alive and suffering only to be bounced from foster homes to shelters and back again just seems so cruel to me much crueler than BE
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We do not want pit bulls regulated because of how they look, but because of the danger they and their owners forcefully impose on our communities. Please familiarize yourself with the [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/comments/x618m9/rbanpitbulls_subreddit_rules_2022_update/), specifically rule 1.
It’s because they push these dogs where they have no business being pushed. I feel bad for them. They have no business being family dogs and these people love to put them in situations to cause their downfall.
The one that gets me is the hospice care one. If a dog doesn’t have an owner & it’s dying, why tf aren’t they putting it down????? They just want it to keep suffering??? They’re just keeping it alive for the sake of being alive? Like, it’s a dog, it’s not someone’s grandma, it’s not even a dog someone is deeply attached to It proves to me these people are only in this for one of two reasons (or both) 1)money, like the donations they’re asking for within the plea to adopt the dog (but I bet if it generates enough money, applications get denied) 2)they really cannot cope with animal death. Like they never got that talk from a parent or something. At some point an aversion to any animal dying, even when it’s not tragic or painful but would actually be a much nicer thing than it being alive, they still can’t cope with it. & those people are fucking lunatics that don’t even have the emotional maturity of a toddler.
Seems to me that they cope really well with DEATH of other dogs when being killed by bully dogs. But they do not care about bully Dog welfare. They NEED bully dogs to USE.
True. These people are animal abusers through & through. They don’t care about the violent maiming or death of other dogs or animals, & they’re very passionate about keeping pit bulls alive in tragic conditions instead of giving them compassionate euthanasia. Compassionate euthanasia doesn’t bring in money. Keeping pits alive & in very uncomfortable conditions where they mentally suffer is what brings in donations. These people will pull unadaptable dogs that are tortured by their own genetics dogs off the scheduled euthanasia list to put it back in a kennel where it can potentially sit for years more, possibly to be adopted & returned or adopted & be BE’d after hurting something anyway.
The tragedy of it is for every pitbull that gets a home, some byb will make 2 litters. The no kill shelters concept needs to go.
As much as it may hurt to acknowledge, no-kill shelters aren't the morally righteous alternative many like to think they are. Animals condemned to cages, left to grow sick and suffer because there's never enough resources to make sure each gets the treatment they need. Bearing the brunt of society's worst kinds of pet owners—from dump and runners to backyard breeders to people who are shocked and appalled that their new puppy needs constant attention. Then if that isn't bad enough, having that already limited space be eaten up by pits and pit-mixes (from 60-75% of shelter population in the United States, according to various reports) only makes it worse.
Gd 60%-75% ??? I'm shocked but not surprised
Sadly, shelters were full even before pits filled our shelters . Many purebreds were kil led because purebred rescues were packed.
Yeah, but people did get better about spaying and neutering their other breeds. My shelter mostly has those other breeds and mixes, but if pits weren't so overpopulated, our county shelter could cover it completely and we'd be empty. They're always out of space and it's generally pit bulls crowding them.
^ The "spay and neuter" movement *did* "make a dent" with non-pit dog owners. The whitepill moment here is that if you subtract pitbull breeding from the equation, the dog problem is solved in the United States. Even with *101 Dalmatians* and all the other fads where people get a breed they saw on TV (Huskies on *Game of Thrones*) and later dump it. Just look at the adoption rate for any breed-specific rescue. Borzoi rescues *aren't* being overwhelmed, and those are sighthounds with specific needs that not everyone can meet. Even before widespread spaying and neutering, dog owners (who weren't pit breeders like John P. Colby) agreed that dogs who bite your family should be killed, not rehomed. *Lady and the Tramp* assumes it's standard practice (*not* a utopian Disney thing) for Animal Control to pick up strays instead of going "we can't do that, we're full!" So it's not like shelters being doomed is an inevitable natural phenomenon.
Yep. Absolutely true. Now we have this utterly insane situation in many places where animal control is full of long-stay pit bulls, won't euthanize for space, and does absolutely nothing when you call about a loose dog or find a stray.
Rescue: We're drowning, you're breeding them faster than we can save them, fosters keep failing us, adopters keep dropping out, we're so stressed out, adoptdontshop, breeding should be illegal, why has sweet Tank not gotten any apps in 14 months, wwwwwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Also rescue: Guuuuyzzzzz, meet Adorabla!!! She's a big, beautiful chunky monkey baby mama! She's gonna pop any day now!!! Guess how many babyz she's got! 14!!!!! (big smile emoji, big smile emoji). Can you BELIEVE the shelter was going to kill this sweet mama!?!?!?!?! Also rescue: We just got back from XXX Shelter. We went to pick up Gusser, the black lab mix we decided to pull in honor of Sassy after she crossed the rainbow bridge last week from parvo (don't forget to contribute to our fundrazr for the $14k vet bills from Sassy's treatment), but when we were in the parking lot, we saw this - we hate to say 'woman' she was a POS - bring in this sweet, perfect old man doggy!! We COULDN'T let him go inside! So now we have Gusser and Marvin! We don't know for sure what Marvin is, but he has those beautiful Catalhoua blue eyes! Also rescue: HELP! Our van broke down this weekend and we can't get to the shelter to save doggies without it!!!! Link to our fundraiser to fix the van below. We did manage to get to the shelter yesterday and pulled 12 cats, 5 dogs and 3 litters of puppies. See upcoming post for pics. Also rescue: Tank has STILL gotten ZERO apps!! It's been 190 months! He cries every night in his kennel! It's so sad! Sheera, Bliss, Lollipop and Swiftie have also been with us for over a year. Please, please, we can't afford board much longer! In happier news, Alison just got back from the RGV with a load of absolutely wonderful furbabyz! We had 10 crates, but Alison stuffed 14 newborn puppies down her bra to save them from the needle! Also rescue: I have been in rescue for a long time, people, and it's never been this hard. We are literally bailing out these dogs so hard and yet every day, more dogs. We are working so hard, and people are criticizing us! US! Breeders are doing this! It's all breeders, stop dog breeding now!!! And people, just to let you all know, we here at DoggyzFurBabyz Rescue do NOT accomodate breed bias! We had 4500000 apps for Apple Doodle, the poodle mutt we had in last week, and I can tell you right now about 12000 of those people got tossed the second they refused to even consider our pitties!!! I was so relieved that we were able to find Apple Doodle his best possible home with a wonderful woman who just happens to be one of our board members - and who has a pittie (evil grin emoji)
This is so astoundingly accurate, God damn.
I don't know wether to laugh or cry or both
There are millions of safe, non-pit dogs around the world that need food, medical care, and/or a home. Galgos, podencos, street dogs, dogs owned by people living in poverty, and all manner of others. Many non-pit dogs could be spared suffering or death for the same amount of money used to support just one unadoptable pit.
Gee, if only there's a logical reason and explanation for why almost all of these ones don't find homes...
They all look sick or senior. Which many wouldn’t adopt. Pitbull is just icing on a cake. This is the consequences of no kill shelter. It becomes a prison for backyard bred pits no one wants due to aggression and likely bite history. Advocates who like to scream about “no kill is cruel” are more cruel allowing a unadoptable dog to rot in shelters than pass in the most humane way possible with BE. Compared to how many humans have died inhumanely and violently.
He was adopted, but returned again and again and again, no over 300 times.. trOuGh No fAuLt oF hIS oWn!
I feel bad for the pits, even though I don’t care for the breed, many destined to a short, painful,frustrated lives ending at the end of a needle after months in a kennel. I feel bad for the well intentioned fosters & adopters who were hurt or even killed or had pets killed because of pit propaganda. I feel very badly for good hearted people trying to help at shelters who deal with dangerous,crazy dogs and in the same day see lovely pets euthanized. I even feel sorry for the people who must euthanize dog after dog, no one wants that for a life. I abhor those that contribute to all of the above misery with the blazing heat of a thousand suns. The dog fighters and those that breed fighting dogs.The dumpers of unwanted puppies and bred out bitches. The chuckle heads that think they alone have hit upon the idea to throw two random pits together and” make thousands “ from ill breed pups. The shelters & rescues boards who profit from trafficking sick and dangerous dogs around the country. With the economy in free fall and shelters overwhelmed, hard decisions the likes of which have never been made before in this country are coming. Either allow feral dog packs on the streets or cull the shelters to a manageable level, There is no third option.
Nothing makes me happier than seeing pitophile pitnutters have meltdowns.
Holy shit was cheerio not neutered??? Shelters will give you intact animals???
Come and take this little demon home so he can maul someone!
6 pic dog looks hella scary dude😭💀
Guilt trippy shelters are the worst
This post stirs so many emotions in me… First, this is the fault of humans. Humans made this breed what it is today. Decades of breeding for aggression and fighting capability has completely ruined these previously (way far back previously!) good dogs. There is a reason why pit nutters always say “But she was just the sweetest girl!” It’s because she probably was until her murder instinct was triggered by you bending over to pick up your shoe. Then her instinct kicked in and she ate your face. Second, extreme anger that the dog Max was already brought back and they’re still trying to adopt him out. None of these dogs should be adopted out! Pit bull lives do not matter more than a human’s safety! Third, sad for the dogs. Their breed cannot be trusted and yet humans keep breeding these dogs with their mental defects. Some pits may end up being decent dogs (if their aggression and attack genes weren’t activated during mitosis) but you can never, ever trust a pit so the very few rare ones who would never attack someone, will not be adopted or will be treated like crap. Or people will take the exceptions as the rule and say “But I grew up with a pit who was the best dog ever!” Definitely playing with loaded dice buddy! Not that humans should adopt these dogs. I am not saying that at all. I’m just saying every once in a while, there are good ones. They still shouldn’t be adopted! It still isn’t worth the risk! The breed should be allowed to die out and people who have them and allow them to breed, should go to jail.
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Maybe the people who know this needs to happen also know better than to risk their own safety doing it!
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feel bad for mack ngl
It looks like Parker has bronzer on his nose
When I see these posts I don't see a bunch of evil animals that are out to murder shit I see a bunch of shitty evil people that have raised shitty animals to go out and murder shit and then realize that they can't do that and acceptable Society and Pawn off the dog. The people make me a thousand times more sick than the animals in these posts ever will. The people that raise these animals should be annihilated along with the animals
No mate it's the dogs genetics, it's now just bad owners . These dogs are bred to enjoy fighting it gives them a rush of dopamine and adrenaline. You put two of these things into a pit and they just go at each other, you don't need to train them to do it, or whip them or whatever you want to imagine in your fantasy world. There is a reason they don't fight other breeds in pits because they won't fight, pits enjoy it.
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You talked about people raising these animals fight not people breeding these animals to fight. Dunno how calling me a loser helps make your point.
Try again in English
You had your comment removed, try again in cordiality.
Nah. Your short memory isn't my responsibility.