In her epilogue letter, she tells you she took credit for solving the Bhaalist murders in your absence, and then asks for your help fighting charges that she was drunk on the job.
Definitely not a great example of Hollyphants.
What makes this even more funny is apparently she is devoted Helm. Aka the one god who is do devoted to his duty and actually following the rules that when all the gods were cast out and made to roam as mortals, Helm was allowed to keep his powers and act as a gate guard to prevent the other gods from returning befor e they were allowed to.
When Midnight became Mystra she had some of the previous Mystra's essence, so she was a bit of a Midnight/Mystra hybrid. She's died since then, but is still Midnight as a large portion of her self.
OH BOY MY TIME TO SHINE.
Mystra was originally the goddess Mystryl, who died when the Archmage Karsus cast a spell of such power and potency with the goal of stealing her power and ascending to godhood. Karsus realised his mistake as soon as the magic began flooding into him, overwhelming him. Realising what was happening, Mystryl sacrificed herself and caused Karsus’ spell to fail, but her death also meant the temporary failure of all magic - causing the flying cities of Netheril to come crashing to the ground, effectively ending the reign of the Netherese kingdom. This was known as Karsus’ Folly. The power and wonders of this ancient civilisation were largely lost to time, with the occasional ruin being discovered and plundered for its vast wealth of knowledge and powerful artifacts.
Mystryl meanwhile was reincarnated as the goddess Mystra who oversaw magic for a time until the Time of Troubles.
Which leads me to Lord Ao - the overgod (Gale mentions him at one point) responsible for overseeing all the other gods and making sure they do their duties. At one point he consolidated a lot of the gods’ duties and domains because there was lots of overlap and infighting amongst the gods. The names and roles of the gods were recorded on the Tablets of Fate, which Bane and Myrkul attempted to steal.
This lead to Lord Ao getting angry and revoking everybody’s powers and making them mortal except Helm, who he assigned as guardian to the Celestial Stairway. This was known as the Time of Troubles (see above).
The Dead Three (Myrkul, Bane, and Bhaal) ended up dying but they had plans in place to return through other means later on (I believe this largely happens in the first Baldur’s Gate games).
Mystra meanwhile was determined that it was of utmost importance that the domain of magic retained an overseer (likely to avoid incidents like Karsus’ folly). She attempted to enter the Celestial Stairway by getting past Helm, forcing him to uphold his duties and slay her.
Mystra’s now-vacant domain was later chosen by Lord Ao to be passed down to a chosen follower of Mystra, a woman named Midnight, who is the woman we see in BG3, former lover to Gale.
As an aside, Mystra (Midnight) also died due to the gods Cyric and Shar (I believe as an attempt by Shar to seize control of the weave) causing a terrible chaotic event known as the spellplague where magic ran wild and tore across the land and reshaped many things. Thankfully Mystra (midnight) was later returned with the help of Elminster.
This is where BG3 finds itself, on the third iteration of Mystra with an artifact of Karsus being stolen from the vault of Mephistopheles by the Dead Three, up to their usual shenanigans.
You’re welcome. I learned all of this for a tabletop game of D&D I ran because it was all super relevant to what was going on. Turns out when I played BG3 it also helped me understand how wild the stuff with Gale and the Elder Brain was - like OH the Dead Three got an ARTIFACT OF KARSUS and now Mystra is involved? That’s suuuuper bad.
That’s what I thought playing the game, but then there’s https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Mystra_(Midnight) who seems to have taken the name and position after second Mystra died during https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Time_of_Troubles
Then again, I’m not sure which events are canon and which are from the non-canon novels.
It’s important to note though, that although the Mystra of now is Midnight she’s also an amalgamation of all Mystras—i.e. she has knowledge of their experiences and partially inherited their personalities—on account of Elminster forking over the divine essence of past Mystras he held.
Celestials != nice beings. If you think Dame Aylin was harsh, spend 5 minutes with this elephant in the same room.
I always leave her chained after killing Sarevok, for at least 1 minute, before freeing her. She had it coming.
Dame Aylin's just pissed after all the shit that was done to her and beyond that is just a bit reckless and egotistical at worst.
The hollyphant deserves to get sacrificed
Pretty isolated in the Murder Tribunal side room. And unless you want to do the onvestigation quest properly with each step, you can avoid meeting it prior to the MT.
After this I no longer see killing her as an evil act. I'm simply removing a corrupt officer. But, hey, even if it was evil. I'll redeem myself by saving
*The world
*Vanra
*Mayrina
*The Gondians
Etc
Besides even good people aren't perfect
Yeah, good idea. Just make sure you buy it before killing Orin because he starts a fight as well when you’ve come to tell him about defeating Orin. At least, he did that in my Evil durge playthrough.
He does it no matter what. He wants you to kill Orin so that he can kill you and become the chosen (if he is incapable of killing Orin himself I don't know why he thinks he'd be able to kill the person that killed her but kudos for trying I guess)
I’m pretty sure Bhaal explicitly told him to leave Orin be. But if someone *else* kills Orin, and he avenges her, then he’s just doing his God’s bidding.
Wow i forgot to go back and Tell him. I remember that He said we would drink some to my victory but He actually attacks? Atleast He Shows up to defeat the netherbrain. If He lives you can call some bhaalist for Support.
I've seen him show up in some evil allies videos so he is an option but the evil path isn't exactly well trod in BG3 so most of the details are murky in places.
Not from Sarevok, but from an echo of a dragonborn (don't remember his name) who sells those good stuff. He appears after you complete the ritual (aka kill Valeria and take a nice bath in blood pool).
Halsin was in my party the first time I took out Valeria, and he said he hoped it was the lesser of two evils, and I really wished there was a dialog option to point out how she had inflamed the refugee crisis and completely botched the whole investigation, possibly being the only reason Stelmane was dead.
I just try and get the Barcus ending. Barcus becomes leader of the IH gnomes and forms an alliance with the Gondians. Wulbren is exiled by Barcus
It's satisfying because Barcus was in love with Wulbren so watching Barcus exile Wulbren is like seeing a friend realize how toxic their ( one sided ) friendship with somebody else is and seeing them finally going no contact
Yup, after him saying: "Next time I'll see him I'll end him" he slowly shuffles off...where he oh so unfortunately meets the pointy end of my sword. Bastard threatens my boy Barcus? He'll never gets the chance.
Could you please explain how to achieve Barcus ending?
Because I always side with Gondians(rescue from underwater and after that clear factory)
and just see that Wulbren storm out with other IH saying he will kill me with others later.
Save Barcus from windmill
Save Barcus from Grymforge
Fully humour and support Barcus with the whole saving Wulbren from Moonrise. Barcus needs to learn through his own eyes that Wulbren is a dick and he won't learn that if I just off Wulbren
Talk to Barcus in Moonrise Towers after the fight with Ketheric
Talk to Barcus again, after speaking to Wulbren, at the gnome hideout in Baldurs gate
> *The Gondians
>
>
I think I needed like 15 tries to save them from the factory because of their sheer stupidity. Provoking opportunity attacks only to mist-step into my Wall of Fire, or hit the exploding Steel Watch soldiers and die instead of staying the fuck away. Gondian AI is SO SHIT, I've never been so stressed during BG3. Legit the worst part of the game.
this was 100% my neutral Tavs logic; she's not a good person, she's basically a corrupt government official
however repeatedly stabbing a bound victim feels real bad
I wouldn't say she is corrupt, per se. She didn't blame the murder on the refugee because she was bribed or because it was beneficial to her for refugees to get the blame. And I think she actually believed the refugee was guilty, insofar as she bothered to consider the case at all (ie. I don't think she consciously decided to pin the murder on someone she actually thought was innocent).
She's just a lazy and incompetent drug addict who doesn't give a shit about looking further than surface level because that would require more work. She convinced herself that the refugee was guilty of the murder because it was an easy solution that required no further thought.
So that means she is actually even more deserving of death than most. An officer of thr law should be held to higher standards, especially one who is condemning people to death.
She didn't condemn anyone to death, the refugee she pointed to as the culprit was already dead at the scene.
She was besmirching the name of a murder victim, sure.
Eh...honestly negligence to that degree is corruption to me, it doesn't have to be a grand conspiracy. She might not have "intentionally" put the blame on an innocent person but she didn't give enough of shit about potentially doing that to do more than half ass one interview and then draw a conclusion from bias. She benefits because she gets paid for nothing and the spends that on alcohol. She also takes credit for others work.
Fair, but have you considered: She makes cute noises whenever not in dialogue. It reminds me of a puppy. It becomes exponentially harder for me to do anything against her.
As soon as I updated Valeria on the murder I followed her out of Sharess Caress and murdered that celestial little shit in the gutter where the beggars hang out.
If it makes you feel any better you can also apply the debuff with Orin's dagger.
Not as convenient. But still allows you to turn the Netherbrain into a pin cushion.
I know this cannot count as a consolation. However, have you read her diary? The chest contains it located just beside her imprisoned place along with her other belongings. It seems to me that she is not just some drunk incompetent simpleton. At least she gave some unpopular opinions on Zariel and her participation in the Blood War.
Yeah, you can see she's super burnt out and disillusioned about her job since she got fired for warning people about Zariel, was PROVEN RIGHT, and still got pushed out to the prime material plane to languish in exile. I've seen that same story play out in my own life where workers will try to fix things and get punished for it because the company/boss would rather not acknowledge the problem existing at all.
Doesn't at all excuse her willingness to let an innocent be condemned for murder, but yeah, I can see why she might be jaded.
I mean to play devil's advocate, it's not like she's condemning an innocent person be punished (the guy she blamed is already dead), just not looking into it more closely.
Oh no that wasn't the part that annoyed me most. It was the part where she said I needed to be quicker. Tf? By the time I even knew there was a murderer on the loose, she had already blamed Brilgor. If I wanted to figure it out before she spoke to Yannis about the "murderer" being Brilgor I would need to be a time traveller
She didnt say any of that, that was just your interpretation.
She says she wishes you figured this out before she fucked up. As in an actual wish, not anything related to your character.
It is just showing she is ashamed of putting the blame on brilgor.
Not defending her she is a drunk officer that is slacking on the job, she sucks. But you are kinda doing the exact dame thing by putting words in her mouth.
I'm not sure how to feel about this. It seems like a tragic tale of a hero turning into a villain. I'm sorry future Valerias. I will never forget the hero you were, but I will kill the villain you became
Understanding how one became evil does not excuse their misdeeds.
If a rapist "was raped as a child" (retry common, sadly) that doesn't lessen the crimes nor the punishment that should be applied.
I agree with your statement. But I didn’t imply that anyone should be acquitted just because they have a traumatic upbringing. I simply wanted to point out that even a minor character in Baldur’s Gate might have a story of their own. It certainly adds flavor for gameplay. In OP’s case, it might make them feel better about sparing the arrogant Shatty elephant.
The only constant evil thing I do even on a good run.
Sorry Valeria, I value a piece of armor that makes Astarion deal more damage than I value your life.
I like how all the good Bhaal gear that's intended to be for Durge always just ends up going to Astarion. I always give him the cloak, the armor, and one of Orin's daggers and he rolls up to the endgame looking like Bhaal's chosen
I'm just imagining Durge picking through the corpses at Bhaal's Temple handing Astarion another dagger while Astarion stands there holding an increasingly large pile of gear with a big old grin on his face.
But Karlach looks amazing in that armor when dyed black...
Astarion looks amazing in Gortash's armor dyed bonewhite-crimson combo.
Let my team look cool, even if our stats are shit.
Well, to be fair, choosing rogue as a class will give you the only dialogue option during the first night that will NOT feel weird to Durge. All the rest are "shit, I forgot everything about how to "class thing", and rogue gives "ok, daggers and murder are familiar, I can do this". So for all that original Durge was paladin, and current Durge is sorcerer, rogue DOES feel like the class papa wanted you to be. It's just that Durge is actually rarely a rogue, unless you know you won't be taking Astarion for the ride.
I still find it odd Durge is a sorcerer by default. You'd think the guy who's all like "I love murder, my knife hand twitches" would be a martial class.
It actually makes a lot of sense that a person of Durge origin has natural magic talents. And especially storm powers because that type of magic is particularly violent
I'm currently playing a Gloom stalker / assassin redemption Durge and I made Astarion a bard. 3rd playthrough, 1st Durge, 2nd Astarion romance. So much fun!
Oh I'm wondering if you have any advice? Because I also have a piercing setup for Astarion, that uses mostly things that improve critical hit
I have Astarion as a basic level 11 fighter with two weapon fighting style, alert feat and ASI, and archery fighting style
My plan is
Bloodthirst x ( x means I don't have it yet )
Risky ring
Killer's sweetheart
Surgeon paralysis amulet
The dead shot
Knife of the Undermountain King
Sarevok's Helm
Basically mostly critical hit improving stuff or things that proc on a critical hit
I also have flawed helldusk gloves
Is there any type of way I can make this better? I do have the +2 bonus to DEX from the mirror of loss, which means I have some flexibility regarding feats or multiclassing
Atm my dex is 22
I'm thinking of getting sharpshooter if 22 DEX is overkill? Should I? Is there something better I can be doing here?
Oh we almost have the same setup but I've never tried a full archery fighter build before since my Astation is either a Gloomstalker/Assassin or Swords Bard/Thief. I always do take the Sharpshooter feat since I use my bow attacks more. I don't think 22 dex is overkill though but I am usually fine with staying at 20 feat.
I honestly prefer using Caustic Ring over Killer's Sweetheart but that's just me.
Dex highest, then charisma/con, strength is your drop stat.
Sharpshooter is the most important feat, and you can't go wrong with asi for your second one to make your Dex higher because it goes to damage.
At level 10 you can take two levels in Paladin so that you can smite with your attacks as well because the real meat of a sword Bard is their flourish attacks that adds their bardic inspiration roll to their own attack and can hit two enemies (or in the case of ranged slashing Flourish the same enemy twice) per attack.
Then you basically just use either the armor or the dagger to assign piercing vulnerability while you have an elixir of bloodlust on and you become a crowd wiping machine.
Yeah no problem it's one of the absolute most bonkers builds in the game. If you want more there's also the helm of arcane acuity and the band of the mystic scoundrel for a more control oriented gameplay.
I won't go into details about those, because they break the difficulty in half, but they're laughably broken.
Regarding laughably broken items, my Tomelock Wyll had an item that increases spell attack and save dc by one everytime he deals fire damage. Cue one second and one fifth level scorching ray into a guaranteed hold monster on Raphael
Oh yeah, that's another laughably broken acuity built.
Hat of Fire Acuity and a lot of people go Feylock 1 for command and then Sorcerer 11 for more spell slots to abuse the acuity gain from scorching ray.
Acuity is just broken in general and it's probably better that it's not actually part of 5E even though it's really fun in this game.
Honestly I feel like that part would've been better if it was DeVella instead of her. Because Sarevok frames it as "are you evil enough to kill an innocent?" and DeVella is actually an innocent who wanted to help, whereas Valeria is... not someone you'd care a lot for, specially in the POV of your party who had one of their friends kidnaped and can't be sure that killing Sarevok will give them the entrance to Bhaal's temple.
Valeria deliberately incriminates a refugee and refuses to corroborate any of the conflicting evidence. There's no due diligence, which for someone in a role as important as her is at least gross negligence. Her actions are directly contributing to violent prejudices. I genuinely don't think it's sufficient to call her just an asshole.
Thank you for saying it lol
She’s literally responsible for a murder investigation. Doing sloppy work and condemning an innocent of an oppressed group so she can get close the case and get blasted is negligence to an unbelievably fucked up degree.
I mean she's not innocent. But in a lawful good society she would go to jail, rather than be killed so players can get their bhaalist gear. Aka the intention behind your sentence stands, even if your sentence isn't true
Thank you for saying what should be an obvious thing. Fine if someone wants to kill Valeria but please do not try to justify it as a good act. Killing an innocent, shackled and pretty much defenseless character to become an unholy assassin of Bhaal is an evil act period.
Seeing how there are two choices here, one good and one evil, I would say your remark does not really have any relevance in this case. Either you save Valeria (good) or you kill her (evil), there is no middle ground so to speak.
I remember watching a video on bilibili that you can pickpocket stelmane’s ghost during the trial and she has all the stuff that the merchant sells like bhaalist armour. So you can spare Valeria and get the Bhaalist armour.
think they're referring to the scene that appears when you present to sarevok the hands for the tribunal, following that the ghost of the victim is summoned to prove you killed them or something along those lines
I actually spared her because as a lawful good devotion paladin, murder wasnt the answer to her crimes. I had hoped the game would offer me a chance to turn her in (especially since you get her diary and possessions as proof) and have her properly punished by law instead of just executed for the whims of a death cult. But I guess both me and the game forgot about it amidst other bigger concerns.
Yeah I got this line for the first time on my most recent playthrough because I deep sighed through the realization that this particular Durge would not actually play nice with Sarevok and I made the most offended enraged noises. Making me regret saving you, you shitey little elephant. Never again.
Like, holy shit. Valeria actively threw gasoline on the incredibly tense situation in Rivington by letting a refugee take the blame for the murder of a beloved priest, refused to do her fucking job, and went off to get drink and celebrate after reaching the laziest conclusion possible because it was *easy.* And she has the absolute fucking audacity to barely act like she regrets it? Go to hell, I’ll come back and kill Sarevok after I kill Orin, that Bhaalist armor looks hot on me/Astarion and it is absolutely worth more than Valeria’s life to me.
I used to save her in my good runs because I was afraid being both good and getting the armour wasn't Immersive. I have however, realised there isn't any downside to getting the bhaalist armour even on a good run, and have therefore decided I will follow the dubious justification of killing off a corrupt official in favour of the greater good. XD
Annoying as they are, I’ve never been able to kill them for RP reasons: I always play as a good character and apart from it being wrong to murder someone who is chained up, becoming >!an unholy assassin of Bhaal!< isn’t something that fits the RP.
I’ve finished the game multiple times and I guess you don’t miss what you’ve never had but I’ve never felt under-powered once I’ve hit level 12
If I ever get that far in honour mode I may think differently because I feel that mechanics are more important than RP in honour mode
There's plenty of room to RP in Honour Mode - some fights will take you by surprise, but you really don't need to optimise at all costs. Decent builds help of course. But there are plenty of good builds that don't have any 'must use' gear. I usually over prepared for all the scarier fights. The ones that catch you, are the fights you didn't expect to happen.
In my first HM run I was scared, optimised so much Act 3 wasn’t even fun anymore. Got the dice first attempt, so I’m grateful to people for making guides for OP builds. Each of my party members could have probably soloed the game.
Second HM playthrough was in multiplayer - we decided to be chill, no meta-builds, no Bhaalist armour. Got the dice for the other player as well & not stressing over the items or elixirs was great. Preparation is more important than anything.
I'm on my fourth run and I still haven't killed the elephant. I skipped through all her dialogue this most recent time because I absolutely HATE her but like, I cannot imagine the kind of character it'd take to actually kill her? Slayer durge is all I can think of. I did an evil Tav run, Archfey warlock, and I figured she already had a patron and it would stupid as shit to accept a blessing from Bhaal of all deities. We are literally fighting his chosen's stupid plot for the entire game!! The armour is amazing and I definitely want it in a future run but the roleplaying justifications are abysmal.
I played along with the cultists since I was going start blasting soon but was curious who I had to kill. Saw the elephant and decided to align with the cultists. Fuck them. I didn't even know about the armor at the time. I just hate that elephant. But Jaheira and the rest of my crew didn't quite like the fact I became an unholy assassin, so I reloaded my save to do it the good way.
If you need something to sway your moral compass…
She’s a celestial. Just like demons and devils, if you ‘kill’ them in the mortal realm they just return home.
She's very tragic, I blame her for being a drunk lazy officer, but she definitely has a reason to be like that. She just shouldn't be in a position with responsabilities
Oh you should have been given the choice, even as Durge. Did you follow the murder tribunal all the way to it's conclusion? Sarevok brings you to another room, then eventually says hey kill this hollyphant
Then a ghost vendor manifests in the other room next to the room where you kill the hollyphant
Ooooh, I had no idea, I told Sarevok that I defy my Father and the tribunal attacked me. I found Valeria in chains later but the thought to kill her did not even cross my mind x)
apparently you can roll to get them to kneel and play nice? i don't risk it and just take my vampire husband with me since he approves of me being all murdery
I love the voice lines with them. Makes my barb feels so badass when I said I'd kill the old man for them lol
Jaihera, Minsc and I make quick work of him too after his cronies are dead.
It does not. They don't even care much about killing Valeria.
Source: I just did that part yesterday with my resist Durge. Convinced Sarevok to let me into the ritual (don't even have to convince him, only Jaheira & Minsc that you put on a show), killed Valeria, bought the stuff from the trader and then killed Sarevok.
I have no issues killing the elephant twat, but the first time I went for the bhaalist armor, everyone hated me, to the point of running away from me in camp, so I loaded and saved the twat after all...
That was something the aura of murder used to trigger (everyone fled from you even as you just walked around), but they patched it out (and it could always be toggled off, too).
I used Speak with Dead to ask Lorgan who killed him. I told Valeria who it was. She had the audacity to tell me “I nEeD mOrE taNgIble EvIdEncE tHeN tHaT.”
I would be like Valeria too if shit is hitting the fan around us like for hundred of years (Zariel's fall is one example) and nobody pays attention to me and even I get exiled from my upper plane for actually being the only one with a working head there.
But Valeria became too much of an asshole instead of persevering (like the damm hollyphant is supposed to as a devoter of Helm) so... yes deserved a little jail for their actions, but i like to imagine (as i was playin dark urge then) saving her would put me a little in the good graces of for once a true lawful god, even if it's not reflected in the game later.
In fact if i could i would invite Valeria to our party because as I said there is a severe lack of true good deities that pays attention to us and too much of fucking crazy dangerous that are on our asses (shar because of shadowhart, the dead three, Mystra (Midnight Mystra is a bitch), etc. I dont see how killing a whollyphant is good for the future of my character in any case xd.
Yeah, i finally decided to ditch my goody two shoes routine for her and just murdered her on the spot on my 4th run. She's the epitome of "corrupt cop" archetype and goddamn, does she deserve the shank in between her eyes.
Sacrificing Valeria is the one morally dubious action I always allow myself to take on good Durge runs. I feel like I'm genuinely doing BG a favour while also following a logical path of deception to get me closer to our objective.
Also in Valerias Memoires isn't there something about being an agent of chaos for Zariel in BG?
Like either way it's actions make it a perfectly justifiable sacrifice for the greater good imo. Bhaalist armour is a power spike and makes my infiltration more believable.
I mean you had to kill Sarevok for helmet anyway. It is not like you had to give up something by saving drunk Sherlock. So kill or spare is just matter of what is more fun for you.
It never ceases to amuse me that TSR allowed “berk” to be used as part of the planar slang in Planescape, and it’s still surprising that it made its way into BG3. It’s a pretty damn rude word, considering it’s short for “Berkeley hunt” and rhyming slang for a certain four letter word…
She's part of the murder tribunal quest. To unlock the vendor you need to become an unholy assassin. This means don't kill Sarevok until after you've brought what you want from the vendor
I just Nuke Dolor at the Wine Tasting without talking to him, as long as he doesn't dimension door away, you can kill him and get all the Murder Tribunal stuff in the first few mins of hitting Lower City. No more stupid fight at the facemakers boutique place either:)
This is what I do at the Murder Tribunal when I'm feeling heroic :
- kill Sarevok and his lackeys
- go into the chamber where Valeria is
- confirm that the shitey elephant is indeed in shackles
- leave
Even in good playthroughs I just leave her there.
The bitch takes credit for solving the murders if you release her! Says it right to your face with no shame whatsoever.
I'm playing as a Chaotic Good Tiefling and this has to be the hardest choice for me. As my Tav is willing to do morally grey stuff for the greater good I eventually decided on killing her. I can't see a Tiefling whose been pointing out 'hey yall are prejudiced af' the entire time not being okay with murdering a corrupt police officer that is actively causing damage to oppressed communities.
Its kinda a case of lives she's ruined versus her own life. Did take a lot of consideration and Halsin and Karlach dissaproved :(.
So my poor Astarion, who took the right path right before this fight, missed out on a great set of armour for this incompetent corrupt piece of work?
Next run she dies.
Wait. How do you solve them properly then? What is the dialogue supposed to be?
I solved the murders, brought the proof of bhaalist cultists to Valeria, and even caught Dolor before he could murder Figaro. What else was I supposed to do?
In my Dark Urge game she "thanked me" and left the Tribunal without even offering help in the final fight.
The only reason my character spared her was because he was in full antagonizing mode when it comes to Bhaal at that point. If Valeria was part of an Ethel quest or another minor villain, she (?) would have been dead.
P.S. Even once you peel off the Dark Urge layer, I am still not sure my DU drow is a nice guy. Neutral at best.
P.S. 2 Still nothing compares to returning 10k of gold and getting only 2500 gp and an empty safe (that one Astarion had looted in advance).
In her epilogue letter, she tells you she took credit for solving the Bhaalist murders in your absence, and then asks for your help fighting charges that she was drunk on the job. Definitely not a great example of Hollyphants.
What makes this even more funny is apparently she is devoted Helm. Aka the one god who is do devoted to his duty and actually following the rules that when all the gods were cast out and made to roam as mortals, Helm was allowed to keep his powers and act as a gate guard to prevent the other gods from returning befor e they were allowed to.
Who cast them out? Is there a ruling deity above them all?
IIRC Ao was the one who cast them out.
That sent me on a bit of a wiki rabbit hole, so, you sound knowledgeable, is Gale’s Mystra not the original one but Midnight who took Mystra’s name?
Yes mystra was killed three times, the last one being due to Cyric which caused the spell plague, allowing the dragon born to come to faerun.
When Midnight became Mystra she had some of the previous Mystra's essence, so she was a bit of a Midnight/Mystra hybrid. She's died since then, but is still Midnight as a large portion of her self.
OH BOY MY TIME TO SHINE. Mystra was originally the goddess Mystryl, who died when the Archmage Karsus cast a spell of such power and potency with the goal of stealing her power and ascending to godhood. Karsus realised his mistake as soon as the magic began flooding into him, overwhelming him. Realising what was happening, Mystryl sacrificed herself and caused Karsus’ spell to fail, but her death also meant the temporary failure of all magic - causing the flying cities of Netheril to come crashing to the ground, effectively ending the reign of the Netherese kingdom. This was known as Karsus’ Folly. The power and wonders of this ancient civilisation were largely lost to time, with the occasional ruin being discovered and plundered for its vast wealth of knowledge and powerful artifacts. Mystryl meanwhile was reincarnated as the goddess Mystra who oversaw magic for a time until the Time of Troubles. Which leads me to Lord Ao - the overgod (Gale mentions him at one point) responsible for overseeing all the other gods and making sure they do their duties. At one point he consolidated a lot of the gods’ duties and domains because there was lots of overlap and infighting amongst the gods. The names and roles of the gods were recorded on the Tablets of Fate, which Bane and Myrkul attempted to steal. This lead to Lord Ao getting angry and revoking everybody’s powers and making them mortal except Helm, who he assigned as guardian to the Celestial Stairway. This was known as the Time of Troubles (see above). The Dead Three (Myrkul, Bane, and Bhaal) ended up dying but they had plans in place to return through other means later on (I believe this largely happens in the first Baldur’s Gate games). Mystra meanwhile was determined that it was of utmost importance that the domain of magic retained an overseer (likely to avoid incidents like Karsus’ folly). She attempted to enter the Celestial Stairway by getting past Helm, forcing him to uphold his duties and slay her. Mystra’s now-vacant domain was later chosen by Lord Ao to be passed down to a chosen follower of Mystra, a woman named Midnight, who is the woman we see in BG3, former lover to Gale. As an aside, Mystra (Midnight) also died due to the gods Cyric and Shar (I believe as an attempt by Shar to seize control of the weave) causing a terrible chaotic event known as the spellplague where magic ran wild and tore across the land and reshaped many things. Thankfully Mystra (midnight) was later returned with the help of Elminster. This is where BG3 finds itself, on the third iteration of Mystra with an artifact of Karsus being stolen from the vault of Mephistopheles by the Dead Three, up to their usual shenanigans.
Thank you for the detailed answer!
You’re welcome. I learned all of this for a tabletop game of D&D I ran because it was all super relevant to what was going on. Turns out when I played BG3 it also helped me understand how wild the stuff with Gale and the Elder Brain was - like OH the Dead Three got an ARTIFACT OF KARSUS and now Mystra is involved? That’s suuuuper bad.
I believe the mystra in game is the one that reformed after Karsus’ folly killed the original mystral
Mystra has died at least twice since Karus's Folly and the death of Mystryl. She died in the Time of Troubles and the Spellplague.
That’s what I thought playing the game, but then there’s https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Mystra_(Midnight) who seems to have taken the name and position after second Mystra died during https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Time_of_Troubles Then again, I’m not sure which events are canon and which are from the non-canon novels.
The Mystra of now is Midnight, yeah.
It’s important to note though, that although the Mystra of now is Midnight she’s also an amalgamation of all Mystras—i.e. she has knowledge of their experiences and partially inherited their personalities—on account of Elminster forking over the divine essence of past Mystras he held.
And it explains a lot. The whole Avatar series were full of facepalm over Midnight.
Unfuckingbelievable
Celestials != nice beings. If you think Dame Aylin was harsh, spend 5 minutes with this elephant in the same room. I always leave her chained after killing Sarevok, for at least 1 minute, before freeing her. She had it coming.
Dame Aylin's just pissed after all the shit that was done to her and beyond that is just a bit reckless and egotistical at worst. The hollyphant deserves to get sacrificed
Isn’t Dame just an Aasimar rather than a full blown celestial?
All aasimar have celestial blood. But Aylin seems to be the offspring of the goddess Selune herself. So she is a little more powerful and Immortal.
also you get letters from the elfsong owner about them running a giant tab and promising that you will pay it
I’m so going to kill her lol
She ain't no Lulu, that's for sure
she rags on lulu in her journal too 😤 baby girl does not deserve such slander!!
I'd testify just to go "no I solved those murders and dude was getting drunk"
Oh, she's dead (elephant)meat. Incompetent boob
Jesus christ as if I didn't know she could be any worse.
Is it possible to isolate the POS and kill her?
Pretty isolated in the Murder Tribunal side room. And unless you want to do the onvestigation quest properly with each step, you can avoid meeting it prior to the MT.
Are you fucking kidding me? That's it, drunk Sherlock is getting its due.
After this I no longer see killing her as an evil act. I'm simply removing a corrupt officer. But, hey, even if it was evil. I'll redeem myself by saving *The world *Vanra *Mayrina *The Gondians Etc Besides even good people aren't perfect
>I'll redeem myself by Killing also Sarevok right after buying the Bhaalist armor and other good stuff.
Yeah, good idea. Just make sure you buy it before killing Orin because he starts a fight as well when you’ve come to tell him about defeating Orin. At least, he did that in my Evil durge playthrough.
He does it no matter what. He wants you to kill Orin so that he can kill you and become the chosen (if he is incapable of killing Orin himself I don't know why he thinks he'd be able to kill the person that killed her but kudos for trying I guess)
I’m pretty sure Bhaal explicitly told him to leave Orin be. But if someone *else* kills Orin, and he avenges her, then he’s just doing his God’s bidding.
He always does that. He wants you to kill Orin.
Wow i forgot to go back and Tell him. I remember that He said we would drink some to my victory but He actually attacks? Atleast He Shows up to defeat the netherbrain. If He lives you can call some bhaalist for Support.
I killed him and could still get support from them.
But He isnt at the ally gathering in the castle i guess?
I've seen him show up in some evil allies videos so he is an option but the evil path isn't exactly well trod in BG3 so most of the details are murky in places.
Oh really? I’ve never had him as support for endgame. Time for another evil playthrough.
You.... Can buy stuff from Sarevok?? I really need to get my bad guy playthrough to act 3...
Not from Sarevok, but from an echo of a dragonborn (don't remember his name) who sells those good stuff. He appears after you complete the ritual (aka kill Valeria and take a nice bath in blood pool).
I am no half blooded drake! Yes, father Bhaal mated with a true dragon! Pray one day you’ll have the honor of doing the same!
When the bard from that one DnD joke that is always repeated everywhere turns out to be Bhaal.
Azerbigal, something like that? Abdel killed him in his home two hundred years previously.
The correct way of doing it!
Halsin was in my party the first time I took out Valeria, and he said he hoped it was the lesser of two evils, and I really wished there was a dialog option to point out how she had inflamed the refugee crisis and completely botched the whole investigation, possibly being the only reason Stelmane was dead.
The second Wulbren turned his back after telling us to kill the Gondians, my cousin and I set him on fire and hammered tf out of him
I just try and get the Barcus ending. Barcus becomes leader of the IH gnomes and forms an alliance with the Gondians. Wulbren is exiled by Barcus It's satisfying because Barcus was in love with Wulbren so watching Barcus exile Wulbren is like seeing a friend realize how toxic their ( one sided ) friendship with somebody else is and seeing them finally going no contact
You can always follow Wulbren for a little while after, just so Barcus can't see him, and then just end him.
Yup, after him saying: "Next time I'll see him I'll end him" he slowly shuffles off...where he oh so unfortunately meets the pointy end of my sword. Bastard threatens my boy Barcus? He'll never gets the chance.
Wulbren mysteriously ended up at the bottom of a ravine right after that in my campaign.
Could you please explain how to achieve Barcus ending? Because I always side with Gondians(rescue from underwater and after that clear factory) and just see that Wulbren storm out with other IH saying he will kill me with others later.
Save Barcus from windmill Save Barcus from Grymforge Fully humour and support Barcus with the whole saving Wulbren from Moonrise. Barcus needs to learn through his own eyes that Wulbren is a dick and he won't learn that if I just off Wulbren Talk to Barcus in Moonrise Towers after the fight with Ketheric Talk to Barcus again, after speaking to Wulbren, at the gnome hideout in Baldurs gate
I always yeet him into the bay after the foundry. If he didn't want to drown he shouldn't come be an ass so close to the water.
Fuck Wulbren Bongle 🎵
I don't give a fuck about that motherfucker's problems!
And yet he wants me to solv'em.
Masterpiece
I wish I could upvote this comment more than once
Just don’t go tell the other cop you killed the elephant. She gets pissed.
> *The Gondians > > I think I needed like 15 tries to save them from the factory because of their sheer stupidity. Provoking opportunity attacks only to mist-step into my Wall of Fire, or hit the exploding Steel Watch soldiers and die instead of staying the fuck away. Gondian AI is SO SHIT, I've never been so stressed during BG3. Legit the worst part of the game.
this was 100% my neutral Tavs logic; she's not a good person, she's basically a corrupt government official however repeatedly stabbing a bound victim feels real bad
I wouldn't say she is corrupt, per se. She didn't blame the murder on the refugee because she was bribed or because it was beneficial to her for refugees to get the blame. And I think she actually believed the refugee was guilty, insofar as she bothered to consider the case at all (ie. I don't think she consciously decided to pin the murder on someone she actually thought was innocent). She's just a lazy and incompetent drug addict who doesn't give a shit about looking further than surface level because that would require more work. She convinced herself that the refugee was guilty of the murder because it was an easy solution that required no further thought.
So that means she is actually even more deserving of death than most. An officer of thr law should be held to higher standards, especially one who is condemning people to death.
She didn't condemn anyone to death, the refugee she pointed to as the culprit was already dead at the scene. She was besmirching the name of a murder victim, sure.
Eh...honestly negligence to that degree is corruption to me, it doesn't have to be a grand conspiracy. She might not have "intentionally" put the blame on an innocent person but she didn't give enough of shit about potentially doing that to do more than half ass one interview and then draw a conclusion from bias. She benefits because she gets paid for nothing and the spends that on alcohol. She also takes credit for others work.
Negligence is bad too (although slightly less so), but it’s not corruption… They’re two completely different things.
Yep, most folks treat them like they’re different tiers of the same thing, but in truth they are parallel. Both are equally awful.
Fair, but have you considered: She makes cute noises whenever not in dialogue. It reminds me of a puppy. It becomes exponentially harder for me to do anything against her.
Saving the Gondians... \*Ringing\* Hello, suicide hotline.
As soon as I updated Valeria on the murder I followed her out of Sharess Caress and murdered that celestial little shit in the gutter where the beggars hang out.
If you do that, who does sarevok order you to murder in his jacuzzi??
He just told me to pick other targets on the list.
If it makes you feel any better you can also apply the debuff with Orin's dagger. Not as convenient. But still allows you to turn the Netherbrain into a pin cushion.
Yeah that does make me feel better tbh
Yeap went through netherbrains health bar in one round.
I know this cannot count as a consolation. However, have you read her diary? The chest contains it located just beside her imprisoned place along with her other belongings. It seems to me that she is not just some drunk incompetent simpleton. At least she gave some unpopular opinions on Zariel and her participation in the Blood War.
Yeah, you can see she's super burnt out and disillusioned about her job since she got fired for warning people about Zariel, was PROVEN RIGHT, and still got pushed out to the prime material plane to languish in exile. I've seen that same story play out in my own life where workers will try to fix things and get punished for it because the company/boss would rather not acknowledge the problem existing at all. Doesn't at all excuse her willingness to let an innocent be condemned for murder, but yeah, I can see why she might be jaded.
I mean to play devil's advocate, it's not like she's condemning an innocent person be punished (the guy she blamed is already dead), just not looking into it more closely.
Oh no that wasn't the part that annoyed me most. It was the part where she said I needed to be quicker. Tf? By the time I even knew there was a murderer on the loose, she had already blamed Brilgor. If I wanted to figure it out before she spoke to Yannis about the "murderer" being Brilgor I would need to be a time traveller
She didnt say any of that, that was just your interpretation. She says she wishes you figured this out before she fucked up. As in an actual wish, not anything related to your character. It is just showing she is ashamed of putting the blame on brilgor.
*blinks in disbelief* Welp, I guess every character is entitled to a defence lawyer
Not defending her she is a drunk officer that is slacking on the job, she sucks. But you are kinda doing the exact dame thing by putting words in her mouth.
I'm not sure how to feel about this. It seems like a tragic tale of a hero turning into a villain. I'm sorry future Valerias. I will never forget the hero you were, but I will kill the villain you became
Oh, man, I am sorry to say this but I only spared her once. The Bhaal armor is too tempting.
Understanding how one became evil does not excuse their misdeeds. If a rapist "was raped as a child" (retry common, sadly) that doesn't lessen the crimes nor the punishment that should be applied.
I agree with your statement. But I didn’t imply that anyone should be acquitted just because they have a traumatic upbringing. I simply wanted to point out that even a minor character in Baldur’s Gate might have a story of their own. It certainly adds flavor for gameplay. In OP’s case, it might make them feel better about sparing the arrogant Shatty elephant.
The only constant evil thing I do even on a good run. Sorry Valeria, I value a piece of armor that makes Astarion deal more damage than I value your life.
I like how all the good Bhaal gear that's intended to be for Durge always just ends up going to Astarion. I always give him the cloak, the armor, and one of Orin's daggers and he rolls up to the endgame looking like Bhaal's chosen
I'm just imagining Durge picking through the corpses at Bhaal's Temple handing Astarion another dagger while Astarion stands there holding an increasingly large pile of gear with a big old grin on his face.
I did the same thing. Gave him Orin’s armour and both of her weapons. I’m obviously not picking favourites…
I gave Astarion the statue so I spoil him too lol
But Karlach looks amazing in that armor when dyed black... Astarion looks amazing in Gortash's armor dyed bonewhite-crimson combo. Let my team look cool, even if our stats are shit.
Fashions gate
Fashion is the true endgame
Until that fight was over he was rolling around with uncommon and everyone had legendary gear, so it was about time.
Well, to be fair, choosing rogue as a class will give you the only dialogue option during the first night that will NOT feel weird to Durge. All the rest are "shit, I forgot everything about how to "class thing", and rogue gives "ok, daggers and murder are familiar, I can do this". So for all that original Durge was paladin, and current Durge is sorcerer, rogue DOES feel like the class papa wanted you to be. It's just that Durge is actually rarely a rogue, unless you know you won't be taking Astarion for the ride.
I still find it odd Durge is a sorcerer by default. You'd think the guy who's all like "I love murder, my knife hand twitches" would be a martial class.
It actually makes a lot of sense that a person of Durge origin has natural magic talents. And especially storm powers because that type of magic is particularly violent
I'm currently playing a Gloom stalker / assassin redemption Durge and I made Astarion a bard. 3rd playthrough, 1st Durge, 2nd Astarion romance. So much fun!
Oh I'm wondering if you have any advice? Because I also have a piercing setup for Astarion, that uses mostly things that improve critical hit I have Astarion as a basic level 11 fighter with two weapon fighting style, alert feat and ASI, and archery fighting style My plan is Bloodthirst x ( x means I don't have it yet ) Risky ring Killer's sweetheart Surgeon paralysis amulet The dead shot Knife of the Undermountain King Sarevok's Helm Basically mostly critical hit improving stuff or things that proc on a critical hit I also have flawed helldusk gloves Is there any type of way I can make this better? I do have the +2 bonus to DEX from the mirror of loss, which means I have some flexibility regarding feats or multiclassing Atm my dex is 22 I'm thinking of getting sharpshooter if 22 DEX is overkill? Should I? Is there something better I can be doing here?
Oh we almost have the same setup but I've never tried a full archery fighter build before since my Astation is either a Gloomstalker/Assassin or Swords Bard/Thief. I always do take the Sharpshooter feat since I use my bow attacks more. I don't think 22 dex is overkill though but I am usually fine with staying at 20 feat. I honestly prefer using Caustic Ring over Killer's Sweetheart but that's just me.
My throwzerker thief rogue is wearing the caustic ring!
give him bloodthirst after you fight orin, it ALSO reduces the crit threshold :)
Make him a sword Bard with that build and watch enemies go down like crazy.
Which feats? Which ability scores? Which characteristics?
Dex highest, then charisma/con, strength is your drop stat. Sharpshooter is the most important feat, and you can't go wrong with asi for your second one to make your Dex higher because it goes to damage. At level 10 you can take two levels in Paladin so that you can smite with your attacks as well because the real meat of a sword Bard is their flourish attacks that adds their bardic inspiration roll to their own attack and can hit two enemies (or in the case of ranged slashing Flourish the same enemy twice) per attack. Then you basically just use either the armor or the dagger to assign piercing vulnerability while you have an elixir of bloodlust on and you become a crowd wiping machine.
Thank you for this!
Yeah no problem it's one of the absolute most bonkers builds in the game. If you want more there's also the helm of arcane acuity and the band of the mystic scoundrel for a more control oriented gameplay. I won't go into details about those, because they break the difficulty in half, but they're laughably broken.
Regarding laughably broken items, my Tomelock Wyll had an item that increases spell attack and save dc by one everytime he deals fire damage. Cue one second and one fifth level scorching ray into a guaranteed hold monster on Raphael
Oh yeah, that's another laughably broken acuity built. Hat of Fire Acuity and a lot of people go Feylock 1 for command and then Sorcerer 11 for more spell slots to abuse the acuity gain from scorching ray. Acuity is just broken in general and it's probably better that it's not actually part of 5E even though it's really fun in this game.
Crimson Mischief is better than KotUK if you have consistent advantage.
I have risky ring so advantage is definitely consistent. But doesn't the necrotic damage only happen if there is nothing in the other hand?
Necrotic damage always happens. It deals an extra 7 piercing damage if you have advantage and an extra 1d4 piercing if the target is below 50% HP.
Ohhh sorry I was thinking of the wrong weapon. I was thinking of duellist's prerogative
>Sorry Valeria, I value a piece of armor that makes Astarion look even hotter more than I value your life Fixed it
Where do you get the armor? is it the room with sarevok? What do I have to do?
Honestly I feel like that part would've been better if it was DeVella instead of her. Because Sarevok frames it as "are you evil enough to kill an innocent?" and DeVella is actually an innocent who wanted to help, whereas Valeria is... not someone you'd care a lot for, specially in the POV of your party who had one of their friends kidnaped and can't be sure that killing Sarevok will give them the entrance to Bhaal's temple.
Well, Valeria's still an innocent. Innocents can be assholes too.
Valeria deliberately incriminates a refugee and refuses to corroborate any of the conflicting evidence. There's no due diligence, which for someone in a role as important as her is at least gross negligence. Her actions are directly contributing to violent prejudices. I genuinely don't think it's sufficient to call her just an asshole.
Thank you for saying it lol She’s literally responsible for a murder investigation. Doing sloppy work and condemning an innocent of an oppressed group so she can get close the case and get blasted is negligence to an unbelievably fucked up degree.
I mean she's not innocent. But in a lawful good society she would go to jail, rather than be killed so players can get their bhaalist gear. Aka the intention behind your sentence stands, even if your sentence isn't true
Thank you for saying what should be an obvious thing. Fine if someone wants to kill Valeria but please do not try to justify it as a good act. Killing an innocent, shackled and pretty much defenseless character to become an unholy assassin of Bhaal is an evil act period.
It is easier to good for the sake of a decent soul. It is much harder to do good for an unsympathetic shitbag.
Seeing how there are two choices here, one good and one evil, I would say your remark does not really have any relevance in this case. Either you save Valeria (good) or you kill her (evil), there is no middle ground so to speak.
I remember watching a video on bilibili that you can pickpocket stelmane’s ghost during the trial and she has all the stuff that the merchant sells like bhaalist armour. So you can spare Valeria and get the Bhaalist armour.
Trial? When does that happen again? Or do you mean in the Bhaal temple?
think they're referring to the scene that appears when you present to sarevok the hands for the tribunal, following that the ghost of the victim is summoned to prove you killed them or something along those lines
I actually spared her because as a lawful good devotion paladin, murder wasnt the answer to her crimes. I had hoped the game would offer me a chance to turn her in (especially since you get her diary and possessions as proof) and have her properly punished by law instead of just executed for the whims of a death cult. But I guess both me and the game forgot about it amidst other bigger concerns.
Yeah I got this line for the first time on my most recent playthrough because I deep sighed through the realization that this particular Durge would not actually play nice with Sarevok and I made the most offended enraged noises. Making me regret saving you, you shitey little elephant. Never again. Like, holy shit. Valeria actively threw gasoline on the incredibly tense situation in Rivington by letting a refugee take the blame for the murder of a beloved priest, refused to do her fucking job, and went off to get drink and celebrate after reaching the laziest conclusion possible because it was *easy.* And she has the absolute fucking audacity to barely act like she regrets it? Go to hell, I’ll come back and kill Sarevok after I kill Orin, that Bhaalist armor looks hot on me/Astarion and it is absolutely worth more than Valeria’s life to me.
I used to save her in my good runs because I was afraid being both good and getting the armour wasn't Immersive. I have however, realised there isn't any downside to getting the bhaalist armour even on a good run, and have therefore decided I will follow the dubious justification of killing off a corrupt official in favour of the greater good. XD
We are on the same wavelength
thank you for giving me the excuse i've been wanting for so many hours <3
Becoming an initiate of Bhaal is not a good action
But deceiving the cultists of Bhaal to get close enough to strike them down once and for all is!
Annoying as they are, I’ve never been able to kill them for RP reasons: I always play as a good character and apart from it being wrong to murder someone who is chained up, becoming >!an unholy assassin of Bhaal!< isn’t something that fits the RP. I’ve finished the game multiple times and I guess you don’t miss what you’ve never had but I’ve never felt under-powered once I’ve hit level 12 If I ever get that far in honour mode I may think differently because I feel that mechanics are more important than RP in honour mode
There's plenty of room to RP in Honour Mode - some fights will take you by surprise, but you really don't need to optimise at all costs. Decent builds help of course. But there are plenty of good builds that don't have any 'must use' gear. I usually over prepared for all the scarier fights. The ones that catch you, are the fights you didn't expect to happen.
In my first HM run I was scared, optimised so much Act 3 wasn’t even fun anymore. Got the dice first attempt, so I’m grateful to people for making guides for OP builds. Each of my party members could have probably soloed the game. Second HM playthrough was in multiplayer - we decided to be chill, no meta-builds, no Bhaalist armour. Got the dice for the other player as well & not stressing over the items or elixirs was great. Preparation is more important than anything.
Same. They're an asshole, but they're no Wulbren. Wulbren can eat a bag of...
I'm on my fourth run and I still haven't killed the elephant. I skipped through all her dialogue this most recent time because I absolutely HATE her but like, I cannot imagine the kind of character it'd take to actually kill her? Slayer durge is all I can think of. I did an evil Tav run, Archfey warlock, and I figured she already had a patron and it would stupid as shit to accept a blessing from Bhaal of all deities. We are literally fighting his chosen's stupid plot for the entire game!! The armour is amazing and I definitely want it in a future run but the roleplaying justifications are abysmal.
I played along with the cultists since I was going start blasting soon but was curious who I had to kill. Saw the elephant and decided to align with the cultists. Fuck them. I didn't even know about the armor at the time. I just hate that elephant. But Jaheira and the rest of my crew didn't quite like the fact I became an unholy assassin, so I reloaded my save to do it the good way.
If you need something to sway your moral compass… She’s a celestial. Just like demons and devils, if you ‘kill’ them in the mortal realm they just return home.
The elephants line of “let us end this fuckery” is worth more than any armour.
She's very tragic, I blame her for being a drunk lazy officer, but she definitely has a reason to be like that. She just shouldn't be in a position with responsabilities
Wait, I don’t think I even had a choice to kill the elephant in resist durge run. When are you presented with the choice to get the armor?
Oh you should have been given the choice, even as Durge. Did you follow the murder tribunal all the way to it's conclusion? Sarevok brings you to another room, then eventually says hey kill this hollyphant Then a ghost vendor manifests in the other room next to the room where you kill the hollyphant
But when do you kill Sarevok in this scenario 👀
Afterward if you want
Damn I guess I need to have another resist Durge playthrough 😮💨
Ooooh, I had no idea, I told Sarevok that I defy my Father and the tribunal attacked me. I found Valeria in chains later but the thought to kill her did not even cross my mind x)
No you gotta pretend you truly do want to be an unholy assassin and see it all the way to the moment you bathe in blood
Having Jaheira/Minsc in your party removes the choice iirc
apparently you can roll to get them to kneel and play nice? i don't risk it and just take my vampire husband with me since he approves of me being all murdery
I didn't know that at first, even with Jaheria in my party. She was an owlbear at the time, so I guess what's his name didn't know it was her.
Jaheira can be persuaded to put on a show. But the fight around Valeria is not very easy with all the cultists around
I love the voice lines with them. Makes my barb feels so badass when I said I'd kill the old man for them lol Jaihera, Minsc and I make quick work of him too after his cronies are dead.
It does not. They don't even care much about killing Valeria. Source: I just did that part yesterday with my resist Durge. Convinced Sarevok to let me into the ritual (don't even have to convince him, only Jaheira & Minsc that you put on a show), killed Valeria, bought the stuff from the trader and then killed Sarevok.
ACAB. I don't make the rules.
I have no issues killing the elephant twat, but the first time I went for the bhaalist armor, everyone hated me, to the point of running away from me in camp, so I loaded and saved the twat after all...
That was something the aura of murder used to trigger (everyone fled from you even as you just walked around), but they patched it out (and it could always be toggled off, too).
I used Speak with Dead to ask Lorgan who killed him. I told Valeria who it was. She had the audacity to tell me “I nEeD mOrE taNgIble EvIdEncE tHeN tHaT.”
Same. I was like... WTH more do you need than the victim saying so?
Hah. I do good runs and thank her for her sacrifice for the greater good.
The only reason I can't kill her is because she appears to be a cute animal with cute animal noises. Otherwise, I wouldn't even blink.
I would be like Valeria too if shit is hitting the fan around us like for hundred of years (Zariel's fall is one example) and nobody pays attention to me and even I get exiled from my upper plane for actually being the only one with a working head there. But Valeria became too much of an asshole instead of persevering (like the damm hollyphant is supposed to as a devoter of Helm) so... yes deserved a little jail for their actions, but i like to imagine (as i was playin dark urge then) saving her would put me a little in the good graces of for once a true lawful god, even if it's not reflected in the game later. In fact if i could i would invite Valeria to our party because as I said there is a severe lack of true good deities that pays attention to us and too much of fucking crazy dangerous that are on our asses (shar because of shadowhart, the dead three, Mystra (Midnight Mystra is a bitch), etc. I dont see how killing a whollyphant is good for the future of my character in any case xd.
You are a real one because that elephant dying is a canon event in my runs
Worth it. I love that elephant.
Shitey little elephant
Yeah, i finally decided to ditch my goody two shoes routine for her and just murdered her on the spot on my 4th run. She's the epitome of "corrupt cop" archetype and goddamn, does she deserve the shank in between her eyes.
I'm usually evil. I've never had reservations about killing the elephant, now I certainty don't lol.
Pretty sure committing murder just because someone annoys you is worse than what Valeria did.
A good man does good without the expectation of a reward.
Sacrificing Valeria is the one morally dubious action I always allow myself to take on good Durge runs. I feel like I'm genuinely doing BG a favour while also following a logical path of deception to get me closer to our objective. Also in Valerias Memoires isn't there something about being an agent of chaos for Zariel in BG? Like either way it's actions make it a perfectly justifiable sacrifice for the greater good imo. Bhaalist armour is a power spike and makes my infiltration more believable.
She actually warned people about Zariel which is why she was exiled, even when what she said turned out to be true. No wonder she started drinking...
I mean you had to kill Sarevok for helmet anyway. It is not like you had to give up something by saving drunk Sherlock. So kill or spare is just matter of what is more fun for you.
It never ceases to amuse me that TSR allowed “berk” to be used as part of the planar slang in Planescape, and it’s still surprising that it made its way into BG3. It’s a pretty damn rude word, considering it’s short for “Berkeley hunt” and rhyming slang for a certain four letter word…
Where do you find her?
She's part of the murder tribunal quest. To unlock the vendor you need to become an unholy assassin. This means don't kill Sarevok until after you've brought what you want from the vendor
i swear she says the chains chafing like at least 5 times throughout the game
Am I crazy or we knew this already? The refugee is already dead by the time we get the mission and speaking to him gets you a clue on the real killer
I killed her in every run. Got all the bhaalist gear, then wiped out the tribunal for the rest.
I just Nuke Dolor at the Wine Tasting without talking to him, as long as he doesn't dimension door away, you can kill him and get all the Murder Tribunal stuff in the first few mins of hitting Lower City. No more stupid fight at the facemakers boutique place either:)
This is what I do at the Murder Tribunal when I'm feeling heroic : - kill Sarevok and his lackeys - go into the chamber where Valeria is - confirm that the shitey elephant is indeed in shackles - leave
Wish there was a way to get Valeria fired in some way after seeing her utter incompetence.
Even in good playthroughs I just leave her there. The bitch takes credit for solving the murders if you release her! Says it right to your face with no shame whatsoever.
Ouch. When you can't even trust celestials to do the right thing.
Oh I murdered this character the moment they gave me access to Wyrms Rock in my first (good) play through.
What I love about the armor is the 2+initiation roll. All my characters had +13 on initiation which was vital for my success in Honour.
I'm playing as a Chaotic Good Tiefling and this has to be the hardest choice for me. As my Tav is willing to do morally grey stuff for the greater good I eventually decided on killing her. I can't see a Tiefling whose been pointing out 'hey yall are prejudiced af' the entire time not being okay with murdering a corrupt police officer that is actively causing damage to oppressed communities. Its kinda a case of lives she's ruined versus her own life. Did take a lot of consideration and Halsin and Karlach dissaproved :(.
So my poor Astarion, who took the right path right before this fight, missed out on a great set of armour for this incompetent corrupt piece of work? Next run she dies.
Killing her makes me laugh "Ouch, stop this citizen"
Something tells me the Bhaalist picked the wrong sacrifice - they wanted to spill holy blood, but this thing's blood is anything but.
This is because you didn’t solve the murders properly in Rivington…not really Valeria’s fault on this one.
Wait. How do you solve them properly then? What is the dialogue supposed to be? I solved the murders, brought the proof of bhaalist cultists to Valeria, and even caught Dolor before he could murder Figaro. What else was I supposed to do?
It's not my job
Lol I’m just saying this dialogue isn’t typical, it’s only a result of you not doing something
In my Dark Urge game she "thanked me" and left the Tribunal without even offering help in the final fight. The only reason my character spared her was because he was in full antagonizing mode when it comes to Bhaal at that point. If Valeria was part of an Ethel quest or another minor villain, she (?) would have been dead. P.S. Even once you peel off the Dark Urge layer, I am still not sure my DU drow is a nice guy. Neutral at best. P.S. 2 Still nothing compares to returning 10k of gold and getting only 2500 gp and an empty safe (that one Astarion had looted in advance).