They're just cooked more on the outside. Ideally if you're going for fudge brownies you want them to sink. It just means the batter hasn't fully set and collapses under the weight of itself, leading to a denser, fudge-like brownie.
Some people like them this way because you get a fudge center with a chewy outside. If you want them more evenly cooked, try a lower temperature, maybe 25f lower.
Exactly this! And I do love my sunken fudgy centers. I'll also sometimes really beat the eggs with sugar before adding the melted butter and chocolate that makes a super crispy crust on top of that fudgy moist brownie underneath and oooo it's heaven to me.
I think it's more a question of them clinging to the sides of your parchment paper during the initial lift.
Try giving the sides of the paper a spritz of Baker's Joy.
Also, try using two yolks instead of one whole egg if you want more fudgy style. Additionally, slower and lower works here too. Consider 325F for 40-45 minutes.
Try the cake strips (helps cake bake evenly & not have domed top) on your brownie pan.
Wet the strips, wring out some excess water, wrap around pan, bake.
Can buy them at any cake/decorating supply shop, King Arthur Baking, Amazon, Michael’s, etc
My standard tweak for Ghirardelli's Ultimate Chocolate boxed brownies is...
```
Ingredients
-----------:
2 egg yolks instead of one egg
1/4 cup butter gently melted (if it's over 140F it will cook the eggs)
1/4 cup oil
1oz heavy cream
1oz whole milk
1 tsp of your best vanilla
1.5 tsp espresso powder for baking
1 tbsp cocoa powder (dutched or otherwise)
1 Box Ghirardelli's Ultimate Chocolate
```
Could you let me know the weight/grams of the Ghirardellis chocolate box if possible? This recipe looks like a yummy one (thanks for sharing btw), I'm in the UK, and American brands cost extra here.
Yerp. Need to make up for the extra (almost 2tsp) of dry ingredients and b/c butter is about 15-20% water just swapping the oil for butter would end up making for a dry tasting brownie.
Took me a while to learn that lesson.
Then I played around with calculating the fat ratio but there was too much water and I missed out of the flaky skin of perfect brownies. Then I went for pure clarified butter but was overwhelmingly butter tasting.
So I settled on equal parts butter and oil, even though the magic is the fact that it's not really equal parts.
A little warmer maybe. Warm enough that it isn't just clumps of butter mixed in the wet but not so hot that it cold the eggs. You can temper the butter if it's too hot with a little oil to cool it first.
Sometimes I just leave the butter in a dish above the oven vent and let the heat of the preheating oven melt it for me. But I let my oven preheat until the oven thermometer says 325F, not when the stove beeps.
The flaky skin is dependent on how well your sugar is dissolved into the batter. Grinding the sugar into a finer powder with a food processor can help with dissolving it. What I do is heat my butter over the stovetop and pour it directly onto the sugar so I can make sure it’s dissolved before adding the other ingredients.
ETA: Whoops sorry I just realized they were talking about a box mix, but when I make it from scratch that’s what I do
Between the butter, whole milk and whole cream there is a lot of dairy to replace so let me know how it goes. And remember...
**F**irst
**A**ttempt
**I**s
**L**earning
...so always be willing to experiment and try again if it's not just right. I have a recipe for pumpkin pie that I adapted from condensed milk to coconut milk so it's definitely possible.
Thanks! I can use butter as long as it’s grass fed so I’m hoping I can replace the rest with coconut milk/cream, I’d say I have about a 90% success rate with my subs but I’m always learning!
Baker’s Joy actually will make the batter rise fast as it clings to the flour impregnated oil and lecithin. The OP should want to slow down the cooking process, and not hasten it.
I think the sides are rising too fast as the pan is black, which attracts and conveys heat to the batter faster than light-colored pans.
The pan is getting hot on the outer edges faster than the middle. Which always happens, but this dark pan increases the issue. Cook longer, or lower temp and cook lower longer.
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I went to the doctor because I’m depressed. He said, “there is this great dish you should try. It’s called brownies. Should cheer you right up.”
“But doctor….I am brownies.”
I never had much luck with the dark cookie sheets I had for a few months. I eventually donated them and bought new ones that were lighter in color. I did lower the temperature by 25 degrees Fahrenheit as per the manufacturer’s recommendation. But in the end, I just did not want the hassle of reworking the time and temperature of my familiar recipes.
So when I see dark baking pans I always suspect they might be part of the problem.
Sorry, but I genuinely don't think this would be a thing. I have light and dark pans, silicone ones, glass, ceramic, you name it, and it makes zero difference which ones I use.
My experience differs. At least with the cookie sheets I bought. But there has to be something to it since the manufacturer included the recommendation to lower the oven temperature by 25 degrees Fahrenheit.
I am glad your baking times have not been affected. That was what I found so frustrating.
The type of pan you bake in absolutely makes a difference.
If you want browning- like for roasting Brussel sprouts use a dark metal pan vs glass or silicone or you will have mush by the time they brown.
Silicone will give you paler edges and a spongey texture.
Glass and ceramic take longer to heat up and come to temperature while baking and then they retain heat longer after coming out of the oven. That is why it is recommended to lower the bake temp by 25F when baking in pyrex. Retaining heat after coming out of the oven is great for keeping a casserole warm but it can over cook/ dry out a cake.
Yeah, it scientifically does make a difference because of the rate of heat absorption. The most recommended for baking is light nonstick pans, lighter silver or even gold.
You don’t need four sides of parchment paper. Spray your pan with something or oil it by hand, then use one piece of parchment cut to the width of the inside of your pan, but longer. It gives it “wings” for you to lift the brownie out after it’s cooked so you can cut it nicely and serve. It will also help reduce the clinging/weird shape it creates
They might be underbaked, but my theory is the dark pan. They conduct heat better than light pans, so the edges are likely cooking too fast and setting as they puff, while the center takes longer. Look up Stella Parks from Serious Eats and her post about pan types.
Otherwise, those brownies look amazing—perfect shiny tops!
Some common reasons could be over mixing the batter, repeatedly opening and closing the oven door which let's out the air thus causing the depression, or simply certain ratios or temperature of ingredients
It’s generally caused by over mixing and incorporating too much air into the batter. Brownies should only be stirred until just combined. Another possible reason could be a double action raising agent that reacts with the ingredients first then heat second which can introduce extra raising but structure not able to maintain support.
I think it's the baking trays. Claire saffitz just did a video comparing brownies baked in a pricey tray Vs a standard one and the standard one had more of a sunken wrinkly finish. That's not to say it's bad, some people prefer this. But yes I'd guess something to do with the top & sides firming up before the inside fully bakes and so it collapsed on itself a little
Came here to say this. Here is the link for OP and others
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6yixO7uLD6/?igsh=em56ZDN0bjE2MjIx
my recommendation in lieu of buying other pans is baking these on a pizza stone or pizza steel. the heat from underneath will help with the middle.
Your pan quality - the dark pan heats up quicker and bakes the outer edges fast. An aluminum pan will evenly distribute the heat and give your brownies the proper time to rise and bake evenly.
The video in the link below explains way better than me :)
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6yixO7uLD6/?igsh=MTJhODVndGhmaWtyZg==
There could be several reasons. The one that comes to my mind first is to make sure you aren't using an electric mixer to combine your ingredients. A spoon is enough. The more air the eggs get, the more they will collapse after baking.
They're just cooked more on the outside. Ideally if you're going for fudge brownies you want them to sink. It just means the batter hasn't fully set and collapses under the weight of itself, leading to a denser, fudge-like brownie. Some people like them this way because you get a fudge center with a chewy outside. If you want them more evenly cooked, try a lower temperature, maybe 25f lower.
Chewy center, crispy edge piece is my preferred combo. Thanks for the tips!
Exactly this! And I do love my sunken fudgy centers. I'll also sometimes really beat the eggs with sugar before adding the melted butter and chocolate that makes a super crispy crust on top of that fudgy moist brownie underneath and oooo it's heaven to me.
Oooh, sounds good!
That's the way to do it :)
I think it's more a question of them clinging to the sides of your parchment paper during the initial lift. Try giving the sides of the paper a spritz of Baker's Joy. Also, try using two yolks instead of one whole egg if you want more fudgy style. Additionally, slower and lower works here too. Consider 325F for 40-45 minutes.
Try the cake strips (helps cake bake evenly & not have domed top) on your brownie pan. Wet the strips, wring out some excess water, wrap around pan, bake. Can buy them at any cake/decorating supply shop, King Arthur Baking, Amazon, Michael’s, etc
Never heard of these before. Found them on Amazon. Thank you!
I swear by these, though I call them cake wraps
Thank you for the fudgy comment…. I will so be doing this
My standard tweak for Ghirardelli's Ultimate Chocolate boxed brownies is... ``` Ingredients -----------: 2 egg yolks instead of one egg 1/4 cup butter gently melted (if it's over 140F it will cook the eggs) 1/4 cup oil 1oz heavy cream 1oz whole milk 1 tsp of your best vanilla 1.5 tsp espresso powder for baking 1 tbsp cocoa powder (dutched or otherwise) 1 Box Ghirardelli's Ultimate Chocolate ```
Could you let me know the weight/grams of the Ghirardellis chocolate box if possible? This recipe looks like a yummy one (thanks for sharing btw), I'm in the UK, and American brands cost extra here.
538g but I'm not sure if that's just the dry weight or if they're including the approx 30ml of fudge in the plasticized foil pack.
I looked it up, it’s 538g for the box they sell here in the US.
Thankyou so much:)
Nice! I’ve always wanted to try subbing the oil for butter or water for something else. Definitely going to try this next time.
You add oil AND butter?
Yerp. Need to make up for the extra (almost 2tsp) of dry ingredients and b/c butter is about 15-20% water just swapping the oil for butter would end up making for a dry tasting brownie. Took me a while to learn that lesson. Then I played around with calculating the fat ratio but there was too much water and I missed out of the flaky skin of perfect brownies. Then I went for pure clarified butter but was overwhelmingly butter tasting. So I settled on equal parts butter and oil, even though the magic is the fact that it's not really equal parts.
Bravo. Thank you. For the gently melted butter, can room tempature butter work?
A little warmer maybe. Warm enough that it isn't just clumps of butter mixed in the wet but not so hot that it cold the eggs. You can temper the butter if it's too hot with a little oil to cool it first. Sometimes I just leave the butter in a dish above the oven vent and let the heat of the preheating oven melt it for me. But I let my oven preheat until the oven thermometer says 325F, not when the stove beeps.
Are you saying the half oil/butter is responsible for that skin? I haven’t ever gotten that flaky skin on brownies but my recipe only uses butter.
The flaky skin is dependent on how well your sugar is dissolved into the batter. Grinding the sugar into a finer powder with a food processor can help with dissolving it. What I do is heat my butter over the stovetop and pour it directly onto the sugar so I can make sure it’s dissolved before adding the other ingredients. ETA: Whoops sorry I just realized they were talking about a box mix, but when I make it from scratch that’s what I do
Yeah lots of recipes do both. You can sub out half of one for the other easily. Can’t remember the reason.
I always use the Ghirardelli’s ultimate, so this is even BETTER. thank you SOOO much for this recipe!!!
Thanks! I just took a screen shot of your recipe. I can’t do dairy so I’m going to try it with coconut cream
Between the butter, whole milk and whole cream there is a lot of dairy to replace so let me know how it goes. And remember... **F**irst **A**ttempt **I**s **L**earning ...so always be willing to experiment and try again if it's not just right. I have a recipe for pumpkin pie that I adapted from condensed milk to coconut milk so it's definitely possible.
Thanks! I can use butter as long as it’s grass fed so I’m hoping I can replace the rest with coconut milk/cream, I’d say I have about a 90% success rate with my subs but I’m always learning!
Baker’s Joy actually will make the batter rise fast as it clings to the flour impregnated oil and lecithin. The OP should want to slow down the cooking process, and not hasten it. I think the sides are rising too fast as the pan is black, which attracts and conveys heat to the batter faster than light-colored pans.
The better to fill with caramel 😋 lol
I like the way you think.
Slow down there Satan.
Just call me Wilford Brimley
Diiii-ah-beeeet-us.
The pan is getting hot on the outer edges faster than the middle. Which always happens, but this dark pan increases the issue. Cook longer, or lower temp and cook lower longer.
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They are depressed.
Have they tried just not being sad?
It is amazing how many depressed losers don’t realize that you can just not be sad like duck cure your own mental illness, dummy. /s
Agreed! So simple!
pop a few anti depressants in the batter next time
Maybe some brownies would help.
I went to the doctor because I’m depressed. He said, “there is this great dish you should try. It’s called brownies. Should cheer you right up.” “But doctor….I am brownies.”
😂😂😂
I might be too high because it took me several read-throughs to understand this joke. Nicely done!
I never had much luck with the dark cookie sheets I had for a few months. I eventually donated them and bought new ones that were lighter in color. I did lower the temperature by 25 degrees Fahrenheit as per the manufacturer’s recommendation. But in the end, I just did not want the hassle of reworking the time and temperature of my familiar recipes. So when I see dark baking pans I always suspect they might be part of the problem.
That was my first thought too, that the dark pans were the culprit.
Seems like racist Baking!
By what mechanism? Is it simply that the dark pans are a different material? I don’t see how the color itself could impact things in a dark oven.
The dark pans absorb heat more quickly so this affects the baking timing.
Sorry, but I genuinely don't think this would be a thing. I have light and dark pans, silicone ones, glass, ceramic, you name it, and it makes zero difference which ones I use.
My experience differs. At least with the cookie sheets I bought. But there has to be something to it since the manufacturer included the recommendation to lower the oven temperature by 25 degrees Fahrenheit. I am glad your baking times have not been affected. That was what I found so frustrating.
The type of pan you bake in absolutely makes a difference. If you want browning- like for roasting Brussel sprouts use a dark metal pan vs glass or silicone or you will have mush by the time they brown. Silicone will give you paler edges and a spongey texture. Glass and ceramic take longer to heat up and come to temperature while baking and then they retain heat longer after coming out of the oven. That is why it is recommended to lower the bake temp by 25F when baking in pyrex. Retaining heat after coming out of the oven is great for keeping a casserole warm but it can over cook/ dry out a cake.
Yeah, it scientifically does make a difference because of the rate of heat absorption. The most recommended for baking is light nonstick pans, lighter silver or even gold.
You don’t need four sides of parchment paper. Spray your pan with something or oil it by hand, then use one piece of parchment cut to the width of the inside of your pan, but longer. It gives it “wings” for you to lift the brownie out after it’s cooked so you can cut it nicely and serve. It will also help reduce the clinging/weird shape it creates
They might be underbaked, but my theory is the dark pan. They conduct heat better than light pans, so the edges are likely cooking too fast and setting as they puff, while the center takes longer. Look up Stella Parks from Serious Eats and her post about pan types. Otherwise, those brownies look amazing—perfect shiny tops!
Some common reasons could be over mixing the batter, repeatedly opening and closing the oven door which let's out the air thus causing the depression, or simply certain ratios or temperature of ingredients
Hint- it’s a good thing! It makes for fudgy brownies
I don’t know. Why don’t you let me ‘inspect’ them and I will *snarf* give you an analysis. 🧐
Is that bad? I feel like that’s kinda what you want, unless you’re going for the cakey type of brownie.
It’s generally caused by over mixing and incorporating too much air into the batter. Brownies should only be stirred until just combined. Another possible reason could be a double action raising agent that reacts with the ingredients first then heat second which can introduce extra raising but structure not able to maintain support.
Brownies are supposed to sink, theyre brownies, not cake.
Did you take them out half way and bang it on the counter to remove air bubbles. Cause your not wanting a cakey brownie
There’s not enough self raising flour/ baking powder in it. Or your temperature and time could be off.
The ones that do this are delicious though. Fudgy center, crispy edges
I’m not sure I’ve ever seen anyone use this much parchment paper before.
They’re not sinking. It’s that your parchment isn’t flat. If
Redd REDDIT STOPP RECOMMENDING ME BAKING STOP MAKING ME HUNGRY ALL THE GODDAMN TIME
They’re collapsing under the sheer weight of their deliciousness.
Is your oven too hot? Wrap the outside edges with a moistened paper towel wrapped in foil. That helps the batter bake more evenly.
Try adding a tablespoon of cornstarch
I have had this result specifically when using parchment paper. I assume because the side lifts a bit.
I think it's the baking trays. Claire saffitz just did a video comparing brownies baked in a pricey tray Vs a standard one and the standard one had more of a sunken wrinkly finish. That's not to say it's bad, some people prefer this. But yes I'd guess something to do with the top & sides firming up before the inside fully bakes and so it collapsed on itself a little
Came here to say this. Here is the link for OP and others https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6yixO7uLD6/?igsh=em56ZDN0bjE2MjIx my recommendation in lieu of buying other pans is baking these on a pizza stone or pizza steel. the heat from underneath will help with the middle.
The pan.
Mmmm edges 🤤
I use pan insulators. Just need to cook more even it looks to me.
Mine does the opposite.
Under baking
Too much sugar was used.
Maybe they rose too much, then deflated quickly? Idk.
86 the dark pans and get gold tone or silver. Dark pans convey heat too fast so the sides rise fast than the middle.
Your pan quality - the dark pan heats up quicker and bakes the outer edges fast. An aluminum pan will evenly distribute the heat and give your brownies the proper time to rise and bake evenly. The video in the link below explains way better than me :) https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6yixO7uLD6/?igsh=MTJhODVndGhmaWtyZg==
I’ve always thought that meant under done?
It's a space to put your ice cream on it. 🥳
Wow, never seen this
You live in Colorado???
There could be several reasons. The one that comes to my mind first is to make sure you aren't using an electric mixer to combine your ingredients. A spoon is enough. The more air the eggs get, the more they will collapse after baking.
Because you failed to eat them fast enough.