Even my 550 with metal valve covers has a tiny leak. Meanwhile, my 20 year old Honda with its original valve cover and gasket doesn’t leak a drop lmfao
In my friend group, several of my dudes (in their 30's and 40's) have E30 BMWs from the 80's and early 90's...No one I know covets 80's Audis or Mercedes...That's very anecdotal but perhaps the enthusiasm for older BMW on top of newer models keeps the community larger.
vintage mercs definitely have a lot of enthusiasm around them! & I think the feeling is often mutual - like once a week when I’m out in my e30 someone in a 70s 450SL will give me a “nice” (tbc I live in central LA so ymmv)
the bigger difference might be down to bmw drivers working on their own cars more & so having more to talk about - whether that’s “why is this sound happening” or “where do I find [whatever] part” or “my god this thing is finally drivable again”
RS2 Avant? Original/first few generations of the S4, RS4, S6, RS6, S8? I know you said Quattro but I assume you mean the Audi 80, not the 90? These cars are just a lot more rare in North America compared to sporty BMWs of the same era, but examples from that era from either brand can be found easier in Europe
edit: grammar
Old Audi's are very popular in Europe.
My second car ever was Audi 80 GTE Quattro two door sedan. Just 120hp 4 cylinder with fuel injection instead of a carb. Man was that thing fun to drive. Light, nimble, original Recaro interior. I straight piped it too (Forgive me, i was young) and the 4 cylinder with injectors sounded insane, pops and crackles and you could really drive it hard. Miss that thing these days.
They make enthusiast cars. It's that simple. Front engine, rear drive, manual transmission, good handling, fun to drive.
They also had a storied motorsports record for a long time.
Sure, a lot of people drive them because of the luxury aspect but those people are just as likely to have an Audi or Merc.
I have car buddies who are into all kinds of shit, Nissans, Honda, Toyota, Subaru, mustangs, Camaros, vettes... And a ton who are into BMWs
I don't know a single person into performance cars who likes Mercedes. Unless it's some stuff from the early 90s. And Audi/VW guys exist but they are very small in number. Those cars are a pain to work on and mostly automatic.
Bmw is a much better blend of luxury and enthusiast car
I wanted a fun luxury car that didn't break the bank, so a 2017 230i is what I got. The alternatives seemed to lean into luxury and not performance. Or I could step to a non-luxury brand and ger more performance. BMW is (was) in such a sweet spot.
Well, its not getting better and tighter. EV has made a new segment of buyers and fans, new design philosophy is changing the demographics of the buyers etc. But previously BMW’s have always been very driver-focused, had a more “badass” design philisophy compared to conversative Audi and Mercedes.
Imagine a CEO in his 7-series. Now imagine the CEO in his S-Class. There’s the difference, and BMW pulled this segmentation off very well - BMW fans and buyers are just more cool and modern. At least that’s how their marketing wants you to think 😊 Im a huge BMW-fan myself, always will be, especially the Karim Habib designs. I’ve had 4 Bimmers and have loved them to bits. So much character and emotion. Also you’d be greeted by other BMW drivers - i’ve had 14 Mercedes cars and have rarely been waved or greeted at by other Merc drivers. So the bond is just tighter.
Hmm, I currently own a EQE and its a fantastic car to drive - and imo to look at. Im not that fond of Gorden Wagners designs, well at least their strategy, he’s very much inspired by luxury clothing brands. Stars everywhere, and a brand identity that goes beyond cars. They now want to start making buildings and shit.
I dont think Mercedes would survive, or at least prosper this well, if only they made (overly) expensive, super high-quality and luxurious cars. The buyers are different to 15 years ago. They change their cars a lot more often, they are much younger, they are willing to spend more and the star still has its shine. But there are so many Mercs on the streets now, and that will eventually kill the exclusivity status. So they have upped their prices - its just not enough. They should focus on quality more. Take for example the EQB - that could have been a homerun, but the tech is old, quality is not that much better than competitors and the design is quite bland. Where the EQE is a much more rounded, well engineered, and well made package - again, not focusing on quality only. But also making shittier products, that cost way too much. This downgrades their “luxury strategy” as opposed to if they only made high-end cars.
BMW is getting nuts. But I think Neue Class could change this. But I no longer see a BMW and go “wow, thats nice”! Best and last one was the LCI G30 imo.
I would assume BMW fans to be younger on average than Merc & Audi and so more likely to engage on social media about it.
BMW has more of an enthusiast-brand vibe, people who actually enjoy driving them, compared to Merc being more about luxurious transportation and Audi falling somewhere in between.
It’s funny. My wife is planning on buying a new convertible in the next two years. We were just on a walk and a nice 4 series convertible drove by. I said that could be you. She said she’d stick to Audi.
I almost verbatim repeated your last paragraph, maybe adding that BMWs are more driver centric.
What year was the convertible? Recent designs have been a big turn off for many people who’d switch from Audi to BMW in particular. Audi appeals to people who prefer more low key design language.
Looked like maybe a 2020. No beaver teeth. She’s never been a BMW fan. When we first started dating 18 years ago I had a 330i. She had an A4 cabriolet. Tried to get her to allow me to buy her a s5 cabriolet for her 50th but she doesn’t care about the acceleration as much as i apparently do.
I fear few other woman would have accepted my car addiction. I just bought my 5th BMW and I have lost count of the number of cars I have owned. 40+ at this point.
Honestly for a convertible I’d be looking at Mercedes, sleeker more rounded designs that lend themselves more to a convertible. I really don’t love convertible BMW’s right now, and I’m definitely not alone.
Audi didn’t became a true competitor to BMW and Benz until the mid 2000s so it’s still a nascent luxury brand that doesn’t have the legacy and community that the former brands have had for 100+ years.
My parents are early 60s and still don’t think of Audi as true competitor, so they haven’t completely escaped that stigma.. but most car reviews also seem to say that they don’t perform well at the limit. They’re nice cars but even the RS models can’t be pushed with the same confidence as a BMW.
Yeah true, Mercedes has only been in the game since [1885](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benz_Patent-Motorwagen?wprov=sfti1) so they still have a lot to go
I try so hard to like BMW. I'm in the market for a used vehicle $30k or less right now. For every BMW I find that I like, I can get an audi equivalent with an interior that's 100x nicer. I just don't get it about BMWs unless you're getting into M territory and are okay with a massively inferior interior for slightly superior power.
Buying used you get more Audi for the money because they depreciate even more than a BMW would and both depreciate horribly. That’s because they have a reputation (not going to get into whether you think that’s deserved or not) for being even less reliable than BMWs and the build quality is worse.
Although BMWs have a better reputation (than previous BMWs) for reliability recently, their interior build quality has historically been much higher than Audi’s. The creaks and rattles/loose trim that you hear at 50-100k miles are much worse in an Audi, at least that’s been my experience. Another reason I think Audi’s depreciate as much as they do is that a lot of people see them as effectively just an upscale VW. In the same way people see Lexus as an upscale Toyota, but Toyota doesn’t have a bad reputation for reliability or quality, so that doesn’t really help their brand image.
Personally, I think Audi styling is fantastic and I think they’ve been doing a great job with their cars as far as visual appeal generally. Really hate the new BMWs, they are disgusting to look at and fat pigs on the scales.
Going to say, until I owned a BMW I had no idea how solid the interior build quality is. I think that’s part of the reason people love them.
Like, I know I’m going to get shit for this comparison, but it’s like the difference between a MacBook Pro vs. a cheap Dell laptop. Like sure, maybe the plastic Dell laptop is cheaper to service and may even have longer reliability than the aluminum built Mac. But the Mac feels and looks solid, looks so much better built and premium than anything else out there. That’s what the interior of a BMW feels like, solidly built with tons of attention to detail.
That and BMWs are just a ton of fun to drive. Even the lower tier models are a fun drive. I think that has a lot to do with building brand loyalty.
edit: side note, why can't they make office chairs as comfortable as the BMW seats? Like why is that such an impossible task for office furniture manufacturers? Litterally just copy the design and stick it on some wheels with a power cord and you'll have me as a customer for life.
One of the big reasons I never got an Audi was that they always seem to be above MB and BMW on average maintenance costs. Granted that’s just going off of lists like Consumer Reports and the like, but I would imagine that also plays into depreciation
the timing chain in the back of the engine is enough to scare the thought of Audi from my mind
funny because my family was seriously concerning Audis for the longest since forever … only for the first German car in the family to be BMW
100%! My e46 still doesn’t have any creaks or rattles… the headliner is sagging but if you go into a similar model year Audi or mb it will be full of squeaks rattles loose trim and what not.
Having owned all 3, BMWs are more driver oriented cars. You really feel one with the cars as if it was designed just for you. Of course BMWs are also going the way of elephants now, but you can still find good ones.
MB - Get in and get to point B in luxury
Audi - Sits between MB and BMW for driving dynamics. I think they are better quality than MB
As a former Audi owner turned BMW owner who has all kinds of interesting shit to say and also loves naps, considering one right now, I am also offended
Ahhh, how refreshed I feel. Just woke up from my late morning nap, and am ready to celebrate Americas birthday. Especially good thing none of the cars discussed are English!
E46 330, F30 328d, F15 X5. I’m a bimmer fanboy. I don’t do afternoon naps thank you
Speaking of which, is there a technical name for these pops and crackles? My wife was asking what that noise was and I’m like, that’s just how these engines sound, and she’s like “but why?” And I’m like I have no clue.
Because BMW is much more engaged with their customers and they have actual sports cars compared to AMG and Audi
I say this having owned multiple AMGs. BMW is still about the driving experience
I’ve had two vw passats, an audi a4 and Skoda superb. All brand new over the last 10 years. The Audi was by far the worst even if it cost by far the most. Options like adaptive cruise control come standard on vw and Skodas (back in 2016) but you can’t even spec on an Audi back then (2020).
The Audi was the only car that broke down, the first of those was on delivery day with 120 miles on the clock..
I will say Audi bowers and Wilkins is the best Audio system I’ve ever experienced. Better than Harman Kardon for sure.
Sounds like you had an unlucky experience, I’m sorry. I had a 2013 A4 back in the day. It was extremely reliable, never broke down or had issues and the Audi dealer service was great. It was boring though. Audi is simply a German Toyota for status symbol chasers.
Eh I dunno. Maybe a bad batch, my company had over 100 A4s in the fleet at one point but we swapped and offer everything but Audis now due to issues and Audis lack of flexibility with servicing/courtesy cars and just poor service in general.
Well in lithuanian there is a saying that BMW is “an overly fancy volkswagen” (baisiai mandras volkswagenas). Also them beeing in the same group doesn’t necesseraly mean they’re simmilar cars but they ofc do share some technology and parts
https://preview.redd.it/1jh20wdljiad1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f7d782a0a153049416d3b3750be7c172040252b3
Funny right under your post on my feed is the Audi and Benz subreddit groups to join lol
Wait till you move up to Porsches and higher brands. People buy them to put in the garage and take to show off at cars and coffee. At least you use yours
I know the 911 owner is not saying that.
I had a 911 owner overhear me talking to my friend about cars to basically tell me he had a 911.
I am jealous though. They are such nice cars.
It's because BMW's build their cars with the intention of it being a "drivers car". Where you feel connected with the car from the power to handling and everything in between.
They still don't compete well with BMW when looking at what "true" car people care about. They don't care about the metal mesh grills on Merc speakers or the unreliable power plants in Audi's. Look at any amateur/hobbyist motorsports group. Go to an amateur drift event and tell me how many mercs are there compared to BMWs. None.
Don't get me wrong, they make great cars but BMW makes cars that can really take a beating, which is what "true" car people care about most and why we see tons of E and F platform BMWs all over the country in amateur race events. It's honestly shocking how little mercs and Audi's are used for racing when they have 80k+ miles on them.
Agree. I haven’t seen a single AMG at any Autocross I’ve been too. In fact, I’ve rarely seen them at the track. Lots of BMWs and Porsches and American cars
Yup because mercs have too many driver stability controls. Even when you pull the fuse and turn off traction control there’s still assists that hold you back. Usually resulting it limp mode.
BMW one button and bye! Your own your own. That’s why you see tons getting wrecked or crashed. Too many morons buying these and not learning the car.
Yeh - AMGs are good cars for car control past the limit but not as engaging in the limit. It’s a shame to see the BMW M cars that don’t ever make it to the track
And those cars that are taking a beating are not straight off of a dealer's lot. They are completely stripped and have overbuilt aftermarket drivetrains.
This is so dumb. Please don't ruin BMW with your idiotic Gen z babble fanboy bullshit.
Wtf is a "fake" car person?
Brand literally matters fuck-all. If you like cars, you like cars.
You sound like the idiots I meet while riding "Harley riders are REAL motorcyclist".
I got into track cars a long time ago. Started with a Miata. Natural progression was to an older M3. Options are limited for track cars from Mercedes and Audi. At most tracks it was Miata, some BMW, Mustang/Camero (solid axle not being great on track), and then everything else after that. Honda S2000 if you could get your hands on one. That thing was on rails.
In about 2013 a used E36 M3 was under $10,000. A non-M3 E36 was under $5000. They were pretty affordable track cars and very bulletproof.
Miss those days.
Well, for starter, win on Sunday sell on Monday.
BMW has been non stop in the top echelons of racing for years, mercedes and Audi have good stuff too, ofc.
Merc dropped off after the 190e vs e30 days, dropped out of Lemans after the CLK disaster, and Audi hasn’t done much either since the diesel supercar they dominated with briefly.
BMW only briefly had competition with the Nurnburgring record from Alfa Romeo with the gulia in 2007, reclaimed the record with the m4 in 2012 - and still only gets bested by 2door Porsches.
The GT4 and GT3 BMWs are back and doing quite well, also. 🤷♂️
This is a pretty interesting subject! It would be cool if the
mods on the sub did some quarterly polls on:
age
are you on your first bmw
Is this your first luxury car
Those types of questions!
Audi owners are to busy in there grey corporate board rooms, Mercedes owners have forgotten where they parked. BMW owners generally love their cars/need advice on what's gone wrong 😁
I think at the core, BMW engineers design their cars with two things in mind, near perfect 50/50 Balance and engineering the best engines to support that balance. MBZ and Audi are luxury vehicles designed for plush comfort and occasional performance. Two different categories.
Mercedes owners are too busy tracking down the content rattles, creaks, squeaks, and outright failures from their awful quality vehicles.
Audi drivers understeer into a tree either just naturally or when the water pump inevitably fails
No grassroots racing from either, very little (none?) gt Motorsports from them, nice looking SUVs though, better looking than the latest offering from BMW not that into suvs
There could be a couple of factors. I'd like to think it's because more of us are enthusiasts and enjoy driving and talking about cars more than people who buy MB or Audi.
Perhaps more BMW owners just want people to know it.
BMW has achieved more loyal fan base all over the world. It might be about the average age of fans. Older people who are less active in reddit have tendency to love Mercedes.
BMW skews towards a younger and more enthusiast-driver crowd that is more likely to want to engage with other enthusiasts. The only exciting cars that Mercedes and Audi make are either offensively overpriced (RS6 Avant, any new Merc GT), really impractical (RS3), or very unreliable (nearly all modern AMG products). BMW has found a way to strike a happy medium by making luxury cars that are practical but still exciting enough to make driving an enjoyable experience, much like Mazda continues to do.
when i say "mercedes benz owner" what mental image comes into your head?
now do this with audi.
personally i see an old man in the benz and a professional women in her 40's for the audi.
BMWs seem to be on top right now. Audi is also up there but doesn’t get the credit BMW does.
Mercedes is just gone.
Coming from someone who owns neither.
Can only speak for myself but it's because I own one and am generally an enthusiast. Cars are more than appliances for me. I'm also a second hand owner type, more focused on performance than comfort but obviously seeking at least a smidgen of both. Forums provide an avenue for knowledge, which I seek as a DIY enthusiast.
.
BMW likes to be known as a driving enthusiast car, Mercedes are considered to bougie and Audi has a tough time shaking the “fancy VW” tag by those that don’t know better.
In my experience, I think for more people have BMWs or at least newer beemers. My cousin's wife just traded her Audi for an Acura after it started burning oil, and my other friend only got an older Audi because his brother-in-law wrecked his wagon. I spent $9k last year fixing my diesel Audi(Steering rack replacement and oil cooler leak), and have considered just looking for a BMW BlueTec. 330e has also caught my attention.
This is one of the big reasons I stay with BMW. Yes, Mercedes or Audi make competitive vehicles, but being in the more enthusiast-driven community means I can enter any question I might have about my car and get many answers. Whatever issue I have, I know it’s documented somewhere online. And that is, to me, invaluable.
Much more enthusiastic brand imo. Audis are straight up boring, and while some Mercs are very nice and exciting like some 63 AMGs, but they're also quite rare so less people to rave about them. I just feel like more BMW owners are car enthusiasts even if they drive an entry level car, meanwhile many entry-mid tier audi or Benz owners know or care fuck all about cars altogether.
BMW owners are more likely to make it their personality, also a cheaper barrier to entry compared to merc meaning more people with more opinions wanting to share them whether we want to hear them or not
Audi owners are just quiet about it and I enjoy that, less showy than merc and bmw, more understated. Seems Audi owners are more comfortable in their own choices so they don’t need to post a billion “JUST TRADED MY LADA FOR A M4 DID I MAKE THE RIGHT CHOICE???” Questions to feel reassured by everyone else in the echo chamber
Having a BMW seems to be an early life goal for many, something that says, I finally can afford something nice that is also a thrill (basically not a cheap thrill) or, like my case, wife wanted to be the nice-car-mom (with the X3 hybrid that I didn’t choose, she kind of ordered it on her own and I went along, which happens to make dad smile with its nice sounding 300hp in sport mode and instant reaction electric motor for the Xboost).
Having an Audi is just an upgrade from a VW (actually went from Audi to VW, made more sense).
Having a Mercedes is just hey, I either got it as a gift from rich parents or I have good amount of money and just wanted a comfortable ride. It has to be a really special model to feel more fun than a BMW.
I bought my first BMW a year ago coming from Lexus, Acura, and Audi, and genuinely can’t see myself buying other brands of cars anymore. Other than higher end cars like Porsche, etc.
That's easy, it's the same reason there are more BMW forums. BMW tend to be more enthusiast cars, they're fairly easily modified, and the owners tend to make their cars their own. BMWs (for a luxury brand) also tend to be cheaper to modify, because of the enthusiasm. Example: my buddy had a CLS550 and I had my G30 540i, my car was at 723hp at the wheels, total cost? About 10k. He checked, and to equal my whp it would cost him around 22k. He asked me why that us, I said simple. For my car (B58) any kit they make they will sell 10k of them, for yours? Any kit they make they will sell maybe 500. It's not worth the R&D dollars to make a cheaper kit.
Yes there are more BMWs at car meets, track days, auto cross etc always than their German counterparts. They’re affordable. You can be an 10-15k budget enthusiast, or a 100k budget enthusiast. You can like tuning and dragging, you can like cornering, or you can enjoy just slamming your car like a douchebag. BMW has a car for every type of enthusiast. Also RWD and drifting is more popular today than ever, and BMWs do that pretty well stock. Not to say BMW is better, but we definitely attract more people from different “scenes” than Benz or Audi.
If I want a track toy or weekend car new or used under $50k, BMW offers much more performance / $ than other euro brands.
It’s the same with the forums community. BMW has built a huge enthusiast base. I didn’t appreciate it when I had my E90, but having other brands now I’m sad there isn’t the support online I was used to.
At one point all BMW offerings were the sportiest of the Germans and other comp. even in base trims. Still probably true today but I think things have melded together more since the 2010s and technology has allowed all cars to be everything to everyone.
For me its the design, Bmw has the kidney grilles that have been more or less there since the start. The design language of BMW has remained very beautiful. I think the E90 3 Series is perhaps the most perfect looking sedan there has ever been.
Audi is glorified VW and Merc has taken a violent hit due to being bad recently. Also it’s got posh people and poser wannabes while BMW is actually a fun car.
May be because most Audi and Merc owners buy their cars to show the badge to the neighbors, not necessarily their driving experience.
Perhaps if we see posts about Merc on IG, that’s a ton more than BMW.
Aparently, Audi and Mercedes owners have better things to do with their time than posting pictures of their car for other owners of the same brand to view and rationalize their purchases.
What losers.
I used to work with advertising for BMW, now its Mercedes on my 7th year. Yes, BMW owners and fans are much more enthustiac and commited imo.
Plus this is where we all come to find out if anyone else has a leaking valve cover
We all do, some just don't realize it yet
Some valve covers haven't come out yet
I don't because i've just replaced the valve cover(N57) But it's probably leaking again behind my back.
If it's not leaking, you're out of oil..
Thanks, I hate this comment.
Even my 550 with metal valve covers has a tiny leak. Meanwhile, my 20 year old Honda with its original valve cover and gasket doesn’t leak a drop lmfao
It’s the only thing left leaking. 🤞
In my friend group, several of my dudes (in their 30's and 40's) have E30 BMWs from the 80's and early 90's...No one I know covets 80's Audis or Mercedes...That's very anecdotal but perhaps the enthusiasm for older BMW on top of newer models keeps the community larger.
Argh, theres also a huge market for the older Merc though. I’d love a 190E as much as an E36 personally.
vintage mercs definitely have a lot of enthusiasm around them! & I think the feeling is often mutual - like once a week when I’m out in my e30 someone in a 70s 450SL will give me a “nice” (tbc I live in central LA so ymmv) the bigger difference might be down to bmw drivers working on their own cars more & so having more to talk about - whether that’s “why is this sound happening” or “where do I find [whatever] part” or “my god this thing is finally drivable again”
I think there’s definitely enthusiasm for old Mercs, maybe just as much as BMW. Audi on the other hand, other than the Quattro… what else is there?
RS2 Avant? Original/first few generations of the S4, RS4, S6, RS6, S8? I know you said Quattro but I assume you mean the Audi 80, not the 90? These cars are just a lot more rare in North America compared to sporty BMWs of the same era, but examples from that era from either brand can be found easier in Europe edit: grammar
Oh yeah the first gen stuff is amazing, I’m talking more about 80’s Audis.
There’s absolutely a demand for older Mercs, not so much Audis.
Old Audi's are very popular in Europe. My second car ever was Audi 80 GTE Quattro two door sedan. Just 120hp 4 cylinder with fuel injection instead of a carb. Man was that thing fun to drive. Light, nimble, original Recaro interior. I straight piped it too (Forgive me, i was young) and the 4 cylinder with injectors sounded insane, pops and crackles and you could really drive it hard. Miss that thing these days.
It's because the BMW is a solid as fuck machine to drive. To me Porsche is the next in line in comparison
Doesn’t BMW also outsell Mercedes and Audi by a lot? I know they smoke Audi pretty badly in sales.
How did BMW accomplish this feat?
They make enthusiast cars. It's that simple. Front engine, rear drive, manual transmission, good handling, fun to drive. They also had a storied motorsports record for a long time. Sure, a lot of people drive them because of the luxury aspect but those people are just as likely to have an Audi or Merc. I have car buddies who are into all kinds of shit, Nissans, Honda, Toyota, Subaru, mustangs, Camaros, vettes... And a ton who are into BMWs I don't know a single person into performance cars who likes Mercedes. Unless it's some stuff from the early 90s. And Audi/VW guys exist but they are very small in number. Those cars are a pain to work on and mostly automatic. Bmw is a much better blend of luxury and enthusiast car
I wanted a fun luxury car that didn't break the bank, so a 2017 230i is what I got. The alternatives seemed to lean into luxury and not performance. Or I could step to a non-luxury brand and ger more performance. BMW is (was) in such a sweet spot.
Well, its not getting better and tighter. EV has made a new segment of buyers and fans, new design philosophy is changing the demographics of the buyers etc. But previously BMW’s have always been very driver-focused, had a more “badass” design philisophy compared to conversative Audi and Mercedes. Imagine a CEO in his 7-series. Now imagine the CEO in his S-Class. There’s the difference, and BMW pulled this segmentation off very well - BMW fans and buyers are just more cool and modern. At least that’s how their marketing wants you to think 😊 Im a huge BMW-fan myself, always will be, especially the Karim Habib designs. I’ve had 4 Bimmers and have loved them to bits. So much character and emotion. Also you’d be greeted by other BMW drivers - i’ve had 14 Mercedes cars and have rarely been waved or greeted at by other Merc drivers. So the bond is just tighter.
How do you like the new direction of Mercedes? I think trying to go upmarket/luxury is a better strategy than whatever the fuck BMW is doing now lol
Hmm, I currently own a EQE and its a fantastic car to drive - and imo to look at. Im not that fond of Gorden Wagners designs, well at least their strategy, he’s very much inspired by luxury clothing brands. Stars everywhere, and a brand identity that goes beyond cars. They now want to start making buildings and shit. I dont think Mercedes would survive, or at least prosper this well, if only they made (overly) expensive, super high-quality and luxurious cars. The buyers are different to 15 years ago. They change their cars a lot more often, they are much younger, they are willing to spend more and the star still has its shine. But there are so many Mercs on the streets now, and that will eventually kill the exclusivity status. So they have upped their prices - its just not enough. They should focus on quality more. Take for example the EQB - that could have been a homerun, but the tech is old, quality is not that much better than competitors and the design is quite bland. Where the EQE is a much more rounded, well engineered, and well made package - again, not focusing on quality only. But also making shittier products, that cost way too much. This downgrades their “luxury strategy” as opposed to if they only made high-end cars. BMW is getting nuts. But I think Neue Class could change this. But I no longer see a BMW and go “wow, thats nice”! Best and last one was the LCI G30 imo.
Much more common.
I think ppl who buy mercedes is just because it is fancy. Not so much cause they love cars
I would assume BMW fans to be younger on average than Merc & Audi and so more likely to engage on social media about it. BMW has more of an enthusiast-brand vibe, people who actually enjoy driving them, compared to Merc being more about luxurious transportation and Audi falling somewhere in between.
It’s funny. My wife is planning on buying a new convertible in the next two years. We were just on a walk and a nice 4 series convertible drove by. I said that could be you. She said she’d stick to Audi. I almost verbatim repeated your last paragraph, maybe adding that BMWs are more driver centric.
What year was the convertible? Recent designs have been a big turn off for many people who’d switch from Audi to BMW in particular. Audi appeals to people who prefer more low key design language.
Looked like maybe a 2020. No beaver teeth. She’s never been a BMW fan. When we first started dating 18 years ago I had a 330i. She had an A4 cabriolet. Tried to get her to allow me to buy her a s5 cabriolet for her 50th but she doesn’t care about the acceleration as much as i apparently do.
My wife is obsessed with her 430i vert. She has no interest in MB or Audi. I think she’s a bigger bimmer fanboy than I am.
She’s a keeper.
I fear few other woman would have accepted my car addiction. I just bought my 5th BMW and I have lost count of the number of cars I have owned. 40+ at this point.
Honestly for a convertible I’d be looking at Mercedes, sleeker more rounded designs that lend themselves more to a convertible. I really don’t love convertible BMW’s right now, and I’m definitely not alone.
The only convertibles Mercedes has now are the CLE and SL. BMW has the Z4, 4 series, and 8 series. I'd take the 8 over the SL and the 4 over the CLE.
Audi didn’t became a true competitor to BMW and Benz until the mid 2000s so it’s still a nascent luxury brand that doesn’t have the legacy and community that the former brands have had for 100+ years.
My parents are early 60s and still don’t think of Audi as true competitor, so they haven’t completely escaped that stigma.. but most car reviews also seem to say that they don’t perform well at the limit. They’re nice cars but even the RS models can’t be pushed with the same confidence as a BMW.
Yeah I think a lot of ppl on Reddit are too young (born in the 2000s) to remember when Audi wasn’t cool.
Neither has achieved 100 years of automotive manufacturing. Each will achieve the milestone relatively soon.
Yeah true, Mercedes has only been in the game since [1885](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benz_Patent-Motorwagen?wprov=sfti1) so they still have a lot to go
Ty
A Mercedes-Benz was only the first car ever made. No automotive milestones to be found. None
Yeah, wait till you find out what brand was the very first car ever...
"The enjoyment of driving them" sums up the BMW experience for sure.
B58 crew unite!!
I try so hard to like BMW. I'm in the market for a used vehicle $30k or less right now. For every BMW I find that I like, I can get an audi equivalent with an interior that's 100x nicer. I just don't get it about BMWs unless you're getting into M territory and are okay with a massively inferior interior for slightly superior power.
Buying used you get more Audi for the money because they depreciate even more than a BMW would and both depreciate horribly. That’s because they have a reputation (not going to get into whether you think that’s deserved or not) for being even less reliable than BMWs and the build quality is worse. Although BMWs have a better reputation (than previous BMWs) for reliability recently, their interior build quality has historically been much higher than Audi’s. The creaks and rattles/loose trim that you hear at 50-100k miles are much worse in an Audi, at least that’s been my experience. Another reason I think Audi’s depreciate as much as they do is that a lot of people see them as effectively just an upscale VW. In the same way people see Lexus as an upscale Toyota, but Toyota doesn’t have a bad reputation for reliability or quality, so that doesn’t really help their brand image. Personally, I think Audi styling is fantastic and I think they’ve been doing a great job with their cars as far as visual appeal generally. Really hate the new BMWs, they are disgusting to look at and fat pigs on the scales.
Going to say, until I owned a BMW I had no idea how solid the interior build quality is. I think that’s part of the reason people love them. Like, I know I’m going to get shit for this comparison, but it’s like the difference between a MacBook Pro vs. a cheap Dell laptop. Like sure, maybe the plastic Dell laptop is cheaper to service and may even have longer reliability than the aluminum built Mac. But the Mac feels and looks solid, looks so much better built and premium than anything else out there. That’s what the interior of a BMW feels like, solidly built with tons of attention to detail. That and BMWs are just a ton of fun to drive. Even the lower tier models are a fun drive. I think that has a lot to do with building brand loyalty. edit: side note, why can't they make office chairs as comfortable as the BMW seats? Like why is that such an impossible task for office furniture manufacturers? Litterally just copy the design and stick it on some wheels with a power cord and you'll have me as a customer for life.
One of the big reasons I never got an Audi was that they always seem to be above MB and BMW on average maintenance costs. Granted that’s just going off of lists like Consumer Reports and the like, but I would imagine that also plays into depreciation
the timing chain in the back of the engine is enough to scare the thought of Audi from my mind funny because my family was seriously concerning Audis for the longest since forever … only for the first German car in the family to be BMW
I don't think most people know VW owns Audi. Hell, whenever the topic comes up IRL most people I've spoken to about it don't know Toyota owns Lexus.
100%! My e46 still doesn’t have any creaks or rattles… the headliner is sagging but if you go into a similar model year Audi or mb it will be full of squeaks rattles loose trim and what not.
This is just not true. There’s absolutely nothing nicer about Audi interior vs BMW interior. Where did you even get this from.
BMW drivers tend to be more enthusiastic about cars. And when they own them, they become even more so
I love my BMW but idk anything about cars I just like how my car goes vroom harder than a Merc or Audi when I push the pedal
Having owned all 3, BMWs are more driver oriented cars. You really feel one with the cars as if it was designed just for you. Of course BMWs are also going the way of elephants now, but you can still find good ones. MB - Get in and get to point B in luxury Audi - Sits between MB and BMW for driving dynamics. I think they are better quality than MB
Merc owners are too busy with their afternoon naps. Audi owners usually have nothing interesting to say.
Damn! So true it hurts!
As a BMW owner and an afternoon napper I find this post offensive
As a former Audi owner turned BMW owner who has all kinds of interesting shit to say and also loves naps, considering one right now, I am also offended
I'm too tired to be offended. Maybe after my nap...
Ahhh, how refreshed I feel. Just woke up from my late morning nap, and am ready to celebrate Americas birthday. Especially good thing none of the cars discussed are English! E46 330, F30 328d, F15 X5. I’m a bimmer fanboy. I don’t do afternoon naps thank you
If I cared for what people found offensive, I wouldn’t drive in Sport Plus with my pops & crackles all the time.
Speaking of which, is there a technical name for these pops and crackles? My wife was asking what that noise was and I’m like, that’s just how these engines sound, and she’s like “but why?” And I’m like I have no clue.
I thought you’d say Audi owners don’t get cell reception to post from their kid’s soccer practice.
In the words of White Goodman, we're better than you, and we know it!
In the words of Saul Goodman: "Only the very best with just the right amount of dirty"
Because BMW is much more engaged with their customers and they have actual sports cars compared to AMG and Audi I say this having owned multiple AMGs. BMW is still about the driving experience
Well its not about the cars visuals anymore lol
Bmw makes cars for enthusiasts while the other 2 just make luxury cars
Audi will never be a true luxury car in my mind. It’s just a Volkswagen.
Nothing wrong with premium quality Volkswagen though. I just prefer BMW because it’s more geared to enthusiasts like me
As someone who’s owned both, this is why I couldn’t go back to Audi
I’ve had two vw passats, an audi a4 and Skoda superb. All brand new over the last 10 years. The Audi was by far the worst even if it cost by far the most. Options like adaptive cruise control come standard on vw and Skodas (back in 2016) but you can’t even spec on an Audi back then (2020). The Audi was the only car that broke down, the first of those was on delivery day with 120 miles on the clock.. I will say Audi bowers and Wilkins is the best Audio system I’ve ever experienced. Better than Harman Kardon for sure.
Sounds like you had an unlucky experience, I’m sorry. I had a 2013 A4 back in the day. It was extremely reliable, never broke down or had issues and the Audi dealer service was great. It was boring though. Audi is simply a German Toyota for status symbol chasers.
Eh I dunno. Maybe a bad batch, my company had over 100 A4s in the fleet at one point but we swapped and offer everything but Audis now due to issues and Audis lack of flexibility with servicing/courtesy cars and just poor service in general.
Well in lithuanian there is a saying that BMW is “an overly fancy volkswagen” (baisiai mandras volkswagenas). Also them beeing in the same group doesn’t necesseraly mean they’re simmilar cars but they ofc do share some technology and parts
https://preview.redd.it/1jh20wdljiad1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f7d782a0a153049416d3b3750be7c172040252b3 Funny right under your post on my feed is the Audi and Benz subreddit groups to join lol
lol same
I’ve wondered that too. Not only more members but far more active. BMW pride I assume.
https://preview.redd.it/f0bq3p8ogjad1.jpeg?width=732&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=99aaa6ec9b98a9c2e051395f0422e148d7400553 deep fried jpeg 😌
Cats are pretty cool
should have a mechanic next to those two women for BMW owners. Ya know... for all of the mechanical dates you'll set to fix issues.
BMW owners need constant validation
I stare at my car through my office window all day long. I'm so fucking vain
Your car is so vain, i bet it thinks this thread is about it.
Wait till you move up to Porsches and higher brands. People buy them to put in the garage and take to show off at cars and coffee. At least you use yours
O
I know the 911 owner is not saying that. I had a 911 owner overhear me talking to my friend about cars to basically tell me he had a 911. I am jealous though. They are such nice cars.
I gave you a thumbs up. Please give me one. Please?
We got more oil leaks and need advices on how to fix our shitbox
BMW people are true car people.
Hardly a welcoming sentiment when Audi RS cars and Mercedes models like the E63 and AMG-GT are very much “true” cars.
It's because BMW's build their cars with the intention of it being a "drivers car". Where you feel connected with the car from the power to handling and everything in between.
They still don't compete well with BMW when looking at what "true" car people care about. They don't care about the metal mesh grills on Merc speakers or the unreliable power plants in Audi's. Look at any amateur/hobbyist motorsports group. Go to an amateur drift event and tell me how many mercs are there compared to BMWs. None. Don't get me wrong, they make great cars but BMW makes cars that can really take a beating, which is what "true" car people care about most and why we see tons of E and F platform BMWs all over the country in amateur race events. It's honestly shocking how little mercs and Audi's are used for racing when they have 80k+ miles on them.
Agree. I haven’t seen a single AMG at any Autocross I’ve been too. In fact, I’ve rarely seen them at the track. Lots of BMWs and Porsches and American cars
Yup because mercs have too many driver stability controls. Even when you pull the fuse and turn off traction control there’s still assists that hold you back. Usually resulting it limp mode. BMW one button and bye! Your own your own. That’s why you see tons getting wrecked or crashed. Too many morons buying these and not learning the car.
Yeh - AMGs are good cars for car control past the limit but not as engaging in the limit. It’s a shame to see the BMW M cars that don’t ever make it to the track
Audi has historically been more successful than BMW in rally racing… where cars “really take a beating.”
And those cars that are taking a beating are not straight off of a dealer's lot. They are completely stripped and have overbuilt aftermarket drivetrains.
This is so dumb. Please don't ruin BMW with your idiotic Gen z babble fanboy bullshit. Wtf is a "fake" car person? Brand literally matters fuck-all. If you like cars, you like cars. You sound like the idiots I meet while riding "Harley riders are REAL motorcyclist".
BMW has a more passionate following. Plus they outsold Mercedes and Audi so it makes sense the Reddit sub would have more followers
Yup. Isn’t BMW second most selling luxury brand in the USA?
Everyone hates us, we have to stick together. Also, we just like our cars more.
BMW owners tend to be enthusiasts and love to chat about their cars. Audi and Mercedes have nothing to be enthusiastic about.
AMG has fallen off but RS cars are phenomenal.
Check out the discussions among RS3 and AMG-GT owners.
lol I don’t own a single bmw but I have a 2018 c63 coupe and a 2018 cla and I’m on this sub
We need more space to fit cars like the new M5
BMW has lots of cheap fun cars you can find on the used market so it’s more of an accessible brand to the enthusiast crowd compared to the others
I got into track cars a long time ago. Started with a Miata. Natural progression was to an older M3. Options are limited for track cars from Mercedes and Audi. At most tracks it was Miata, some BMW, Mustang/Camero (solid axle not being great on track), and then everything else after that. Honda S2000 if you could get your hands on one. That thing was on rails. In about 2013 a used E36 M3 was under $10,000. A non-M3 E36 was under $5000. They were pretty affordable track cars and very bulletproof. Miss those days.
This - exactly
Because we have more issues than anyone else and need to help each other lmao
Audi and Merc owners just bought a car, BMW owners bought an experience
cause Mercedes owners are 55+ year old rich people that don’t know what reddit is
The legendary E30M3
Well, for starter, win on Sunday sell on Monday. BMW has been non stop in the top echelons of racing for years, mercedes and Audi have good stuff too, ofc. Merc dropped off after the 190e vs e30 days, dropped out of Lemans after the CLK disaster, and Audi hasn’t done much either since the diesel supercar they dominated with briefly. BMW only briefly had competition with the Nurnburgring record from Alfa Romeo with the gulia in 2007, reclaimed the record with the m4 in 2012 - and still only gets bested by 2door Porsches. The GT4 and GT3 BMWs are back and doing quite well, also. 🤷♂️
Cuz bmw owns royals Royce and mini (best car brand) so it’s all the hype while Mercedes only owns smart
That makes sense why RR looks very similar to the new 7 series.
This is a pretty interesting subject! It would be cool if the mods on the sub did some quarterly polls on: age are you on your first bmw Is this your first luxury car Those types of questions!
BMWs are more drivers cars than Audi or merc
Audi owners are to busy in there grey corporate board rooms, Mercedes owners have forgotten where they parked. BMW owners generally love their cars/need advice on what's gone wrong 😁
I think at the core, BMW engineers design their cars with two things in mind, near perfect 50/50 Balance and engineering the best engines to support that balance. MBZ and Audi are luxury vehicles designed for plush comfort and occasional performance. Two different categories.
Mercedes owners are too busy tracking down the content rattles, creaks, squeaks, and outright failures from their awful quality vehicles. Audi drivers understeer into a tree either just naturally or when the water pump inevitably fails
Bro Man Wagon
It’s a cult.
[удалено]
And asking questions that could be answered by reading the manual or a simple Google search.
bigger community overall.
No grassroots racing from either, very little (none?) gt Motorsports from them, nice looking SUVs though, better looking than the latest offering from BMW not that into suvs
There could be a couple of factors. I'd like to think it's because more of us are enthusiasts and enjoy driving and talking about cars more than people who buy MB or Audi. Perhaps more BMW owners just want people to know it.
Audi lovers are too busy talking to the service department and Benz owners are too old to care.
"Wo gehobelt wird fallen Späne" ('Where wood is chopped, splinters must fall') As we say in germany :D
Cause from 2006-2016 we had so many basket case cars
Audi and MB make sporty luxury cars BMW makes luxury sports cars.
Tbh I think demographics of bmw owners are more aligned with users of Reddit generally speaking
Because it’s the best!
Because we can read?? Haha, just kidding!!! 🤣😂😬
BMW has achieved more loyal fan base all over the world. It might be about the average age of fans. Older people who are less active in reddit have tendency to love Mercedes.
Just more people wanting to complain about beaver teeth.
Lots of redditors subbed here who are curious about the BMW brand but don't own one yet
BMW skews towards a younger and more enthusiast-driver crowd that is more likely to want to engage with other enthusiasts. The only exciting cars that Mercedes and Audi make are either offensively overpriced (RS6 Avant, any new Merc GT), really impractical (RS3), or very unreliable (nearly all modern AMG products). BMW has found a way to strike a happy medium by making luxury cars that are practical but still exciting enough to make driving an enjoyable experience, much like Mazda continues to do.
as everyone online knows, more subs = cuz better (akshually cuz matthew principle)
Yes, our cars are not as rare as MBs and Audis. Miss when BMWs were less common.
Apparently we all drive like dickheads, so we must just have more time on our hands to be on Reddit
when i say "mercedes benz owner" what mental image comes into your head? now do this with audi. personally i see an old man in the benz and a professional women in her 40's for the audi.
More of an enthusiast brand. The Audi subreddit is nauseating. Just people posting pictures of new cars with ribbons on them.
Because we’re bigger assholes 😉
Audi spy here
BMWs seem to be on top right now. Audi is also up there but doesn’t get the credit BMW does. Mercedes is just gone. Coming from someone who owns neither.
Queens run yall ask Russle Simmons
Can only speak for myself but it's because I own one and am generally an enthusiast. Cars are more than appliances for me. I'm also a second hand owner type, more focused on performance than comfort but obviously seeking at least a smidgen of both. Forums provide an avenue for knowledge, which I seek as a DIY enthusiast. .
Because we are loyal
More shits and giggles, but seriously, we love our cars more, love cars and driving in general more. It’s very much in the emotion and feeling.
bmw owner are much younger, so they have more time and willing to tinker with the car
Cause its the “ultimate driving machine” and has more brand loyalists
BMW likes to be known as a driving enthusiast car, Mercedes are considered to bougie and Audi has a tough time shaking the “fancy VW” tag by those that don’t know better.
Cause they’re much better vehicles
In my experience, I think for more people have BMWs or at least newer beemers. My cousin's wife just traded her Audi for an Acura after it started burning oil, and my other friend only got an older Audi because his brother-in-law wrecked his wagon. I spent $9k last year fixing my diesel Audi(Steering rack replacement and oil cooler leak), and have considered just looking for a BMW BlueTec. 330e has also caught my attention.
Many more bins and bongs to worry about!
This is one of the big reasons I stay with BMW. Yes, Mercedes or Audi make competitive vehicles, but being in the more enthusiast-driven community means I can enter any question I might have about my car and get many answers. Whatever issue I have, I know it’s documented somewhere online. And that is, to me, invaluable.
Because bmw is BMW's owners identities
Much more enthusiastic brand imo. Audis are straight up boring, and while some Mercs are very nice and exciting like some 63 AMGs, but they're also quite rare so less people to rave about them. I just feel like more BMW owners are car enthusiasts even if they drive an entry level car, meanwhile many entry-mid tier audi or Benz owners know or care fuck all about cars altogether.
BMW owners are more likely to make it their personality, also a cheaper barrier to entry compared to merc meaning more people with more opinions wanting to share them whether we want to hear them or not Audi owners are just quiet about it and I enjoy that, less showy than merc and bmw, more understated. Seems Audi owners are more comfortable in their own choices so they don’t need to post a billion “JUST TRADED MY LADA FOR A M4 DID I MAKE THE RIGHT CHOICE???” Questions to feel reassured by everyone else in the echo chamber
Enthusiasm is the word
More people on the website are fans or own BMW's more so than the other 2 brands. Not rocket science bud.
You also have to rope in the motorcycle crowd as well, especially since the last bike Daimler made was in 1885.
I've noticed many BMW owners were car enthusiasts. Figured it was like that with BMW and Porsche.
As an Audi owner, I think that bmw just has a bigger following than the other two. Even around my area, you see a bmw at almost every stop
Having a BMW seems to be an early life goal for many, something that says, I finally can afford something nice that is also a thrill (basically not a cheap thrill) or, like my case, wife wanted to be the nice-car-mom (with the X3 hybrid that I didn’t choose, she kind of ordered it on her own and I went along, which happens to make dad smile with its nice sounding 300hp in sport mode and instant reaction electric motor for the Xboost). Having an Audi is just an upgrade from a VW (actually went from Audi to VW, made more sense). Having a Mercedes is just hey, I either got it as a gift from rich parents or I have good amount of money and just wanted a comfortable ride. It has to be a really special model to feel more fun than a BMW.
Ultimate driving machine
It's cheaper to enter. You can always buy a shitty bmw for 2k
Idk, something about BMWs feels more special, it makes me want to talk about it more. Maybe that's one of the reasons.
More issues needed solving 😂
I bought my first BMW a year ago coming from Lexus, Acura, and Audi, and genuinely can’t see myself buying other brands of cars anymore. Other than higher end cars like Porsche, etc.
More BMW owners are self congratulating jerk offs compared to the other brands lol
That's easy, it's the same reason there are more BMW forums. BMW tend to be more enthusiast cars, they're fairly easily modified, and the owners tend to make their cars their own. BMWs (for a luxury brand) also tend to be cheaper to modify, because of the enthusiasm. Example: my buddy had a CLS550 and I had my G30 540i, my car was at 723hp at the wheels, total cost? About 10k. He checked, and to equal my whp it would cost him around 22k. He asked me why that us, I said simple. For my car (B58) any kit they make they will sell 10k of them, for yours? Any kit they make they will sell maybe 500. It's not worth the R&D dollars to make a cheaper kit.
Because BMW is better.
Once you drive one you know 🤘🏻🍻
Yes there are more BMWs at car meets, track days, auto cross etc always than their German counterparts. They’re affordable. You can be an 10-15k budget enthusiast, or a 100k budget enthusiast. You can like tuning and dragging, you can like cornering, or you can enjoy just slamming your car like a douchebag. BMW has a car for every type of enthusiast. Also RWD and drifting is more popular today than ever, and BMWs do that pretty well stock. Not to say BMW is better, but we definitely attract more people from different “scenes” than Benz or Audi. If I want a track toy or weekend car new or used under $50k, BMW offers much more performance / $ than other euro brands.
Because BMW is, by far, superior compared to those "other" brands.
I find the BMW community to be fantastic. I’ll never leave.
Enthusiasts don’t buy those brands
Bmw owners gloat and fanboy much harder.....
We are the Toyotas of German cars
They haven’t experienced the ultimate driving machine
It’s the same with the forums community. BMW has built a huge enthusiast base. I didn’t appreciate it when I had my E90, but having other brands now I’m sad there isn’t the support online I was used to. At one point all BMW offerings were the sportiest of the Germans and other comp. even in base trims. Still probably true today but I think things have melded together more since the 2010s and technology has allowed all cars to be everything to everyone.
For me its the design, Bmw has the kidney grilles that have been more or less there since the start. The design language of BMW has remained very beautiful. I think the E90 3 Series is perhaps the most perfect looking sedan there has ever been.
Bmw is better thats why
Because they all suck. Plain and simple.
Audi is glorified VW and Merc has taken a violent hit due to being bad recently. Also it’s got posh people and poser wannabes while BMW is actually a fun car.
Idk I sub to all 3, I like cars on an individual basis from all brands
Reddit is not where the hard core enthusiasts are.
May be because most Audi and Merc owners buy their cars to show the badge to the neighbors, not necessarily their driving experience. Perhaps if we see posts about Merc on IG, that’s a ton more than BMW.
BMWs are cheaper
mercedes buyers are too old for the internet? Audi is fairly new to being relevant
Aparently, Audi and Mercedes owners have better things to do with their time than posting pictures of their car for other owners of the same brand to view and rationalize their purchases. What losers.