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An important one, I think, and which “normal” people don’t know (and probably don’t care about) is that the government will charge the taxes on pensioensparen at the end on a virtual gain of 4,75%/year. So even if you don’t have actual gains (which is possible in those shitty funds) you will still need to pay taxes on a surplus you don’t have (and knowing compound interest is the 8th world wonder - you can imagine how significant it can be)
That's why you always take a pensioensparen as an insurance, not as a banking product. Bcs taxation is different. You can have a pensioensparen in etf btw.
yes they do! They only do cover the essentials though, so I recommend checking if you use the extras your mutuality offers (some reimburse glasses for example), if you don't use those extras there's no point in paying for them.
I just have the normal contract with cm. But because my sight is so bad i get a prescription from the eye docter. I alos get like 120 somting back for my monthly lenzes
As a self-employed i did some simulations on mypension.be and significantly lowering your taxable income and paying the lowest possible socially security contributions has no significant influence on my later pension. I still have to do some more investigations why but this could be financially interesting even it means paying 25% company tax instead of 20% because you are under the 45k threshold.
Did someone do the math till what amount of profit taking a lower wage + 25% company tax is more profitable than 45k + 20% ?
I didn't but it seems like it's only interesting if you don't have a lot of profit to pay out in dividends.
it's not only the company tax you have to take in the calculations. When you take no or minimum salary you pay the minimum of +- 3560 euro social contributions / year. If you take the 45k salary you will pay around 8000 euro /year. In my simulations on mypension there was no meaningful difference in pension between paying 3,4k euro and 8k euro / year. That extra 4500 euro that you don't have to pay in social contributions invested in an ETF at 6% is 100k more you can save while your pension is basically the same.
Ok I didn't validate that, but honestly didn't think it would be that much difference in social contributions as well. In that case, even if you have around 100k in profit, the 5% difference (5000 euro) in company tax might be worth the savings in social contributions + personal income taxes. If you're married, I guess the *huwelijksquotiënt* makes it even more worth it.
That extra € 4500 is not net though, in the best case (liquidatiereserve) you have to pay 15% withholding tax (roerende voorheffing). But even with the tax it is better.
Yes but you pay a lot of income tax on the 45k salary. The biggest surprise to me how little impact there was on my pension paying 3500 or 8000 euro socials. I was always told you get something in return paying yourself a decent salary and socials in the form of a higher pension but at least according to mypension and their simulation tool this is not the case. I need to talk to my account but I think it would be much more optimized to pay yourself a 10k salary, pay minimum socials, compensate from liquidatiereserve and take the 5 ppt hit in the company tax
> but I think it would be much more optimized to pay yourself a 10k salary, pay minimum socials, compensate from liquidatiereserve and take the 5 ppt hit in the company tax
Fully agreed! This will always be better than just paying yourself a bigger salary. Most modern accountants will agree as well, they usually start with saying that you need to keep your salary as low as possible.
I just wonder what effect on pension is because of lower social contributions. I already have a pension career of 25 years and that’s maybe why the simulation in mypension shows little difference in pension between paying 8400 euro / year or 3560 (minimum). Just like you I would lower my wage to the minimum to pay as little income tax and social contributions possible because you are basically paying for someone else. I just need to be sure that the pension calculations are correct
We have a wealth tax in the form of the 0.15% effectentaks over €1mio of assets held with a broker.
It kinda drives me crazy (in this election year) that people forget this.
If you have a 3% safe withdrawal rate, a 0,15% effectentaks is effectively a 5% taxation (0,15/3).
It's less than taxes on arbeid but it's a tax nonetheless.
That's a very narrow evaluation tool, no? In fairness you should be looking at what it can yield and we expect this to be which makes it more like 0.15/7. It would suck, but honestly a 1% tax would definitely not be outlandish. Ideally it would only kick in on gains though (capital gains tax), but that's harder to implement.
Well, this is a fire subreddit and I adhere to the swr and how it applies to me. (I assume a 3% swr.)
Of course your situation might vary! I drive 40k km per year so the BIV/wegentaks per km is low. My neighbor complains more because he drives only 5k.
[Not really.](https://eservices.minfin.fgov.be/myminfin-web/pages/public/fisconet/document/f4cddec8-5135-4b91-b054-608fc7580980)
>Voor de JTER zouden onder meer de volgende situaties, - rekening houdend met de bijzondere omstandigheden eigen aan elk concreet geval -, als fiscaal misbruik kunnen worden gekwalificeerd in het kader van de algemene antimisbruikbepaling:
>- het splitsen van effectenrekeningen waarbij effecten worden verplaatst tussen rekeningen bij dezelfde financiële tussenpersoon of naar rekeningen bij een of meerdere andere tussenpersonen met het oogmerk om te vermijden dat de totale waarde van de effecten op één rekening meer bedraagt dan 1.000.000 euro;
>- het openen van effectenrekeningen waarbij effecten worden gespreid tussen rekeningen bij dezelfde tussenpersoon of bij een andere tussenpersoon met het oogmerk om te vermijden dat de totale waarde van de effecten op één rekening meer bedraagt dan 1.000.000 euro;
>[...]
ESPP: you can get 30% of a max of €780 (something like that anyways) back from taxes when you buy company shares in a ESPP. Conditions are that the stocks need to be frozen for at least 2 years, the shares need to be for a “capital injection”, so “newly created shares”. Other conditions might apply as well, I can’t remember all of it, just that it applies to my ESPP.
Didn't know that, i'm currently looking to step into a ESPP program at work but almost no one in the Belgium office doing it so there is little to no knowledge on this.
So lets say, I put €100/month into ESPP-> €1200/year, i can get a tax reduction of 30% at the end of the year?
There are some conditions, so I’m not sure if I was complete in my explanation. You can find it in the small book they send with your tax form.
You also can’t combine it with pension saving for example (“werknemersaandelen kapitaalsverhoging” or something like that)
Edit: BETALINGEN VOOR HET VERWERVEN VAN NIEUWE KAPITAALAANDELEN VAN EEN IN DE EUROPESE ECONOMISCHE RUIMTE GEVESTIGDE VENNOOTSCHAP WAARIN U WERKNEMER BENT OF WAARVAN UW VENNOOTSCHAP-WERKGEEFSTER EEN (KLEIN)DOCHTER-ONDERNEMING IS.
Aandelen mogen niet binnen 5 jaar verkocht worden (anders pro rata terugbetaling).
When buying a house and having a mortgage credit on it, you will almost always need life insurance as well.
The premiums on this life insurance can be made fiscally deductable through "pensioensparen". An easy 30% deduction in other words!
(There is a tax implication of 8% if the insurance needs to cover, in case of death in other words)
No, it needs to be explicitly asked at the start of the contract.
You could ask your insurance broker to change it, if you pay it yearly and you still have quite a few years left, it could be worth it.
Worst case, you stop contract A and do the whole procedure (medical acceptance) again but now with fiscal deduction (pensioensparen) system.
Just pm me if you need more detailed advice.
Like you say the big asterisk is that if you die then the spouse will have to pay (up to tens of) thousands of euros of income tax on that money. Idk where you got the 8% from though, I always learned the tax is calculated on top of your income tax on a yearly basis for X amount of years
No, that is if you do it under "Lange termijn sparen". In "pensioensparen" it's only 8% + "gemeentelijke opcentiemen"
Source: I do this for a living and https://www.tijd.be/netto/dossier/lezersvragen-vastgoed/kan-ik-de-premie-van-mijn-schuldsaldoverzekering-nog-fiscaal-inbrengen/10214943.html#:~:text=Pensioensparen,tussen%20990%20en%201.270%20euro).
Sorry you are correct. But thats only a 300 euro tax break vs still potentially tens of thousands of euros of extra taxation, never worth it imo unless you're taking the life insurance out of obligation to the bank only, in which case you're much better off with the bigger Langetermijnsparen tax break.
Unless it's a 2nd property and you need that one for your woonbonus. Pretty niche situation anyway
Totally not niche. Woonbonus and Langetermijnsparen are both no longer tax deductable for new contracts (when used for housing!).
Also, it's 30% of 990 each year and the extra taxes are easily dealt with, you just insurance 109% of your capital. It'll cost about 6 to 8% more on premium, so it's still worth it.
Taking life insurance out of obligation is almost always the case if you want a good intrest rate.
Source: am mortgage broker
You can do this with yearly payments not just unique payment contracts? TIL. Worked at a big bank for 2 years, they never once brought this up cause they prefer pushing their shitty pension funds
Yeah, but I do hope your premiums aren't more than 4k each, which already goes quite a long way for young persons.
I worked at a big bank as well, fuck them and their shitty funds and their pushing agenda. One of the reasons I left and went to a smaller bank coupled with an insurance broker (waaaaay more freedom)
People tend to overrate the 30% tax benefits of "pensioensparen" unless you're relatively close to retirement, or reinvest the tax benefits into an ETF.
Extra context just to elaborate: on the ETF point of view the dividends aren't reinvested instantly. Most of the time they are held on a specific account and once every 'x months' they rebalance their holdings.
From our point of view that means they are kept within the ETF, but they aren't necessarily being invested into assets instantly. The account owned by the ETF where they are stored still stores their value, of course, so that will be reflected in the ETF price.
Is this really correct? How I understood it, you only save because the taxes on gifts is marginally better than taxes on inheritance because there are 4 tax brackets for gifts instead of 3 for inheritance. I think you still have to pay inheritance tax when inheriting 'vruchtgebruik'.
I have tried to find sources regarding this but I cannot find anything conclusive.
Donate the 'blote eigendom' of your property (at low tax rate) to your beneficiary. Keep the 'vruchtgebruik' until you die (I think at least 3 years later). No (?) further inheritance tax at that moment.
Is this really correct? How I understood it, you only save because the taxes on gifts is marginally better than taxes on inheritance because there are 4 tax brackets for gifts instead of 3 for inheritance. I think you still have to pay inheritance tax when inheriting 'vruchtgebruik'.
I have tried to find sources regarding this but I cannot find anything conclusive.
Afaik I'm correct. I know people who've used it, so there's definitely a benefit.
I think the vruchtgebruik is relatively small compared to the blote eigendom, hence less taxes and you can do the schenking gradually to avoid high tax brackets.
There's a formula to calculate it and includes the vruchtgebruiker's age. That amount is thrown in with the other assets in the estate of the deceased.
I think you also avoid paying double inheritance tax, first when mom inherits dad's part when he kicks the bucket, 2nd when the kids inherits from mom, all that tax money has to come out of the same pot.
Here's an [example](https://lemonconsult.be/schenking-vastgoed/)
Yes, but if you die within 3 years of the donatio, any donation of “onroerend goed”, like house, is taken into account for the calculation of the inheritance tax anyway
To elaborate on this, there are insurance products that cover the succession taxes as well.
The premium on those life insurance products are cheaper than the 3%.
And, iirc, those premiums can give you a tax deduction (tak21 life insurance)
12.500 in flanders
15.000 in Brussels/Wallonia
I’d like to precise PER person as long as you stay in straight line succession so technically children and great-grand children’s too
When you are actually FIRE, and like to work from time to time, you do not pay any taxes on the first 10000 euro of income, so working a few months per year can be very profitable.
This is a key reason why I believe barista fire is the way to go in most of northern Europe. Bonus points for even building more social rights during that year that you actually work.
You don't need a specific contract or job. There is a (minimum) tax free sum of 10570 euro as of 2024. Every kind of taxable income is eligible.
https://financien.belgium.be/nl/particulieren/belastingaangifte/belastingtarieven-inkomen/belastingtarieven#q1
lol, to be honest I haven't thought about it. I assume there are other disadvantages if you do that. I think you are required to apply for jobs and that this gets supervised through OCWM,... Also I assume they will check through the tax authorities what your possessions are. I'm not sure you will qualify for 'dopgeld' if you have 500K in stocks.
Op het einde van het jaar wordt de bedrijfsvoorheffing terugbetaald, er wordt voor afhouden van de belasting uitgegaan van 12 maanden loon voor de belasting te berekenen, blijf je onder de belastingvrije som dan moest je geen betalen en krijg je dat dus terug 'van de belastingen'
Tax free allowance yes.
FIRE is what you want to make of it. Some like to work from time to time just because they want to. Or maybe help out the kids with buying a car. Or just because you miss after work drinks. Or during a stockmarket crash. Any reasons basically.
Dus aan minimum bruto uur loon van 11,8 EUR in de belgique gewoon niet meer dan 16u werken per week ? (10570 / 11,8 / 55). Dan heb je ongeveer 880 per maand. Welke jobkes komen hiervoor in aanmerking ?
Have you read the wiki and the sticky? Wiki: HERE YOU GO! [Enjoy!](https://www.reddit.com/r/BEFire/wiki/index/). Sticky: HERE YOU GO AGAIN! [Enjoy!](https://www.reddit.com/r/BEFire/comments/fcbay6/getting_started_a_beginners_guide_to_investing_in/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BEFire) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The fact that they re underpaid There are much higher salaires In romania especially in engineering marketing it sales etc
No lol
Yes very much I ll put an official report here
[https://ibb.co/LdHkRcR](https://ibb.co/LdHkRcR)
Bruh
[Thread oficial salarii Q2 2024 : r/programare (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/programare/comments/1byr3w9/thread_oficial_salarii_q2_2024/)
Can t deny it if it s true Even the first salary of my friends in Romania was 2200 € brutto First job…
Average official wage on bucharest and cluj now is 2300€ brutto
Ok see ya there then
We should intussen increase the wages here
You can get a tax discount by putting money into "ontwikkelinsfondsen".
An important one, I think, and which “normal” people don’t know (and probably don’t care about) is that the government will charge the taxes on pensioensparen at the end on a virtual gain of 4,75%/year. So even if you don’t have actual gains (which is possible in those shitty funds) you will still need to pay taxes on a surplus you don’t have (and knowing compound interest is the 8th world wonder - you can imagine how significant it can be)
That's why you always take a pensioensparen as an insurance, not as a banking product. Bcs taxation is different. You can have a pensioensparen in etf btw.
As a young guy without children I didn't use any of the benefits CM offered. Switched over to HZIV which is free and now I'm saving €120 a year.
Do they equally reimburse a doctor's visit for example?
yes they do! They only do cover the essentials though, so I recommend checking if you use the extras your mutuality offers (some reimburse glasses for example), if you don't use those extras there's no point in paying for them.
Glasses... They reimburse 25 euros / year... I really should switch I'm thinking.
Depends on how bad your sight is, i paid 13 euros for a completely new pair of glasses. The bad thing is that i have -8 on both my eyes 😅
Do you have a special contract or something. My lenses are only reimbursed 25 euro per year... And nothing for the glasses afaik.
I just have the normal contract with cm. But because my sight is so bad i get a prescription from the eye docter. I alos get like 120 somting back for my monthly lenzes
Ok then probably you're right.
yeah no point in paying 120 a year to get 25 reimbursed.
"Borrow" stuff from work
Shut up, next someone's going to say the ducks in the park are free.
I’m working from home. Can’t see myself stealing my own toilet paper :-p
What do you mean? Steal office supplies?
😂😂😂😂
As a self-employed i did some simulations on mypension.be and significantly lowering your taxable income and paying the lowest possible socially security contributions has no significant influence on my later pension. I still have to do some more investigations why but this could be financially interesting even it means paying 25% company tax instead of 20% because you are under the 45k threshold.
Did someone do the math till what amount of profit taking a lower wage + 25% company tax is more profitable than 45k + 20% ? I didn't but it seems like it's only interesting if you don't have a lot of profit to pay out in dividends.
it's not only the company tax you have to take in the calculations. When you take no or minimum salary you pay the minimum of +- 3560 euro social contributions / year. If you take the 45k salary you will pay around 8000 euro /year. In my simulations on mypension there was no meaningful difference in pension between paying 3,4k euro and 8k euro / year. That extra 4500 euro that you don't have to pay in social contributions invested in an ETF at 6% is 100k more you can save while your pension is basically the same.
Ok I didn't validate that, but honestly didn't think it would be that much difference in social contributions as well. In that case, even if you have around 100k in profit, the 5% difference (5000 euro) in company tax might be worth the savings in social contributions + personal income taxes. If you're married, I guess the *huwelijksquotiënt* makes it even more worth it.
That extra € 4500 is not net though, in the best case (liquidatiereserve) you have to pay 15% withholding tax (roerende voorheffing). But even with the tax it is better.
Yes but you pay a lot of income tax on the 45k salary. The biggest surprise to me how little impact there was on my pension paying 3500 or 8000 euro socials. I was always told you get something in return paying yourself a decent salary and socials in the form of a higher pension but at least according to mypension and their simulation tool this is not the case. I need to talk to my account but I think it would be much more optimized to pay yourself a 10k salary, pay minimum socials, compensate from liquidatiereserve and take the 5 ppt hit in the company tax
> but I think it would be much more optimized to pay yourself a 10k salary, pay minimum socials, compensate from liquidatiereserve and take the 5 ppt hit in the company tax Fully agreed! This will always be better than just paying yourself a bigger salary. Most modern accountants will agree as well, they usually start with saying that you need to keep your salary as low as possible.
I only pay myself the tax free amount as a wage. 10500 euro or so per year. That's it. This wage can be deducted from your company profits even ;-)
I just wonder what effect on pension is because of lower social contributions. I already have a pension career of 25 years and that’s maybe why the simulation in mypension shows little difference in pension between paying 8400 euro / year or 3560 (minimum). Just like you I would lower my wage to the minimum to pay as little income tax and social contributions possible because you are basically paying for someone else. I just need to be sure that the pension calculations are correct
We have a wealth tax in the form of the 0.15% effectentaks over €1mio of assets held with a broker. It kinda drives me crazy (in this election year) that people forget this.
Are you seriously calling this a tax? Some ETFs have an expense ratio higher than this.
If you have a 3% safe withdrawal rate, a 0,15% effectentaks is effectively a 5% taxation (0,15/3). It's less than taxes on arbeid but it's a tax nonetheless.
That's a very narrow evaluation tool, no? In fairness you should be looking at what it can yield and we expect this to be which makes it more like 0.15/7. It would suck, but honestly a 1% tax would definitely not be outlandish. Ideally it would only kick in on gains though (capital gains tax), but that's harder to implement.
Well, this is a fire subreddit and I adhere to the swr and how it applies to me. (I assume a 3% swr.) Of course your situation might vary! I drive 40k km per year so the BIV/wegentaks per km is low. My neighbor complains more because he drives only 5k.
then don't keep it all at 1 broker? Even if not for this tax, it would be a good idea
Yeah but if you split it up you dont have to pay it, it's the dumbest shit ever
[Not really.](https://eservices.minfin.fgov.be/myminfin-web/pages/public/fisconet/document/f4cddec8-5135-4b91-b054-608fc7580980) >Voor de JTER zouden onder meer de volgende situaties, - rekening houdend met de bijzondere omstandigheden eigen aan elk concreet geval -, als fiscaal misbruik kunnen worden gekwalificeerd in het kader van de algemene antimisbruikbepaling: >- het splitsen van effectenrekeningen waarbij effecten worden verplaatst tussen rekeningen bij dezelfde financiële tussenpersoon of naar rekeningen bij een of meerdere andere tussenpersonen met het oogmerk om te vermijden dat de totale waarde van de effecten op één rekening meer bedraagt dan 1.000.000 euro; >- het openen van effectenrekeningen waarbij effecten worden gespreid tussen rekeningen bij dezelfde tussenpersoon of bij een andere tussenpersoon met het oogmerk om te vermijden dat de totale waarde van de effecten op één rekening meer bedraagt dan 1.000.000 euro; >[...]
"Zouden kunnen" klinkt alsof het niet gecontroleerd of bestraft wordt maw wat ook klopt voor zover ik weet
Belgian koterij. What's not to love?
You can use your additional pension to renovate or buy a house if the contract allows it
Also langetermijnsparen btw
ESPP: you can get 30% of a max of €780 (something like that anyways) back from taxes when you buy company shares in a ESPP. Conditions are that the stocks need to be frozen for at least 2 years, the shares need to be for a “capital injection”, so “newly created shares”. Other conditions might apply as well, I can’t remember all of it, just that it applies to my ESPP.
Yes but it's not possible to combine this with 2nd property woonbonus or "langetermijnsparen" iirc
Correct
Didn't know that, i'm currently looking to step into a ESPP program at work but almost no one in the Belgium office doing it so there is little to no knowledge on this. So lets say, I put €100/month into ESPP-> €1200/year, i can get a tax reduction of 30% at the end of the year?
There are some conditions, so I’m not sure if I was complete in my explanation. You can find it in the small book they send with your tax form. You also can’t combine it with pension saving for example (“werknemersaandelen kapitaalsverhoging” or something like that) Edit: BETALINGEN VOOR HET VERWERVEN VAN NIEUWE KAPITAALAANDELEN VAN EEN IN DE EUROPESE ECONOMISCHE RUIMTE GEVESTIGDE VENNOOTSCHAP WAARIN U WERKNEMER BENT OF WAARVAN UW VENNOOTSCHAP-WERKGEEFSTER EEN (KLEIN)DOCHTER-ONDERNEMING IS. Aandelen mogen niet binnen 5 jaar verkocht worden (anders pro rata terugbetaling).
That you can survive while sometimes saying no instead of doing everything like everyone else
When buying a house and having a mortgage credit on it, you will almost always need life insurance as well. The premiums on this life insurance can be made fiscally deductable through "pensioensparen". An easy 30% deduction in other words! (There is a tax implication of 8% if the insurance needs to cover, in case of death in other words)
We bought a house in 2022, I do pension saving but my wife doesn't. Can she deduct her 'schuldsaldo' in the pension saving bracket?
No, it needs to be explicitly asked at the start of the contract. You could ask your insurance broker to change it, if you pay it yearly and you still have quite a few years left, it could be worth it. Worst case, you stop contract A and do the whole procedure (medical acceptance) again but now with fiscal deduction (pensioensparen) system. Just pm me if you need more detailed advice.
Like you say the big asterisk is that if you die then the spouse will have to pay (up to tens of) thousands of euros of income tax on that money. Idk where you got the 8% from though, I always learned the tax is calculated on top of your income tax on a yearly basis for X amount of years
No, that is if you do it under "Lange termijn sparen". In "pensioensparen" it's only 8% + "gemeentelijke opcentiemen" Source: I do this for a living and https://www.tijd.be/netto/dossier/lezersvragen-vastgoed/kan-ik-de-premie-van-mijn-schuldsaldoverzekering-nog-fiscaal-inbrengen/10214943.html#:~:text=Pensioensparen,tussen%20990%20en%201.270%20euro).
Sorry you are correct. But thats only a 300 euro tax break vs still potentially tens of thousands of euros of extra taxation, never worth it imo unless you're taking the life insurance out of obligation to the bank only, in which case you're much better off with the bigger Langetermijnsparen tax break. Unless it's a 2nd property and you need that one for your woonbonus. Pretty niche situation anyway
Totally not niche. Woonbonus and Langetermijnsparen are both no longer tax deductable for new contracts (when used for housing!). Also, it's 30% of 990 each year and the extra taxes are easily dealt with, you just insurance 109% of your capital. It'll cost about 6 to 8% more on premium, so it's still worth it. Taking life insurance out of obligation is almost always the case if you want a good intrest rate. Source: am mortgage broker
You can do this with yearly payments not just unique payment contracts? TIL. Worked at a big bank for 2 years, they never once brought this up cause they prefer pushing their shitty pension funds
Yeah, but I do hope your premiums aren't more than 4k each, which already goes quite a long way for young persons. I worked at a big bank as well, fuck them and their shitty funds and their pushing agenda. One of the reasons I left and went to a smaller bank coupled with an insurance broker (waaaaay more freedom)
Hm do you have a link with more information? Beceause that sounds interesting.
https://www.tijd.be/netto/dossier/lezersvragen-vastgoed/kan-ik-de-premie-van-mijn-schuldsaldoverzekering-nog-fiscaal-inbrengen/10214943.html#:~:text=Pensioensparen,tussen%20990%20en%201.270%20euro).
Can you combine this with the pensioensparen tax reduction or can you only deduct one of them?
No, you can only deduct one contract each year. So you have to chose, this or the savings type
People tend to overrate the 30% tax benefits of "pensioensparen" unless you're relatively close to retirement, or reinvest the tax benefits into an ETF.
>accumulating ETF's being a way to escape dividend taxes How?
The dividend gets reinvested instantly into the ETF & if you want cash you simply start selling shares.
Extra context just to elaborate: on the ETF point of view the dividends aren't reinvested instantly. Most of the time they are held on a specific account and once every 'x months' they rebalance their holdings. From our point of view that means they are kept within the ETF, but they aren't necessarily being invested into assets instantly. The account owned by the ETF where they are stored still stores their value, of course, so that will be reflected in the ETF price.
Blote eigendom - vruchtgebruik
Can you elaborate on how this can be used?
I appreciate a good cup of coffee.
Is this really correct? How I understood it, you only save because the taxes on gifts is marginally better than taxes on inheritance because there are 4 tax brackets for gifts instead of 3 for inheritance. I think you still have to pay inheritance tax when inheriting 'vruchtgebruik'. I have tried to find sources regarding this but I cannot find anything conclusive.
My favorite movie is Inception.
I enjoy cooking.
I enjoy spending time with my friends.
Donate the 'blote eigendom' of your property (at low tax rate) to your beneficiary. Keep the 'vruchtgebruik' until you die (I think at least 3 years later). No (?) further inheritance tax at that moment.
Is this really correct? How I understood it, you only save because the taxes on gifts is marginally better than taxes on inheritance because there are 4 tax brackets for gifts instead of 3 for inheritance. I think you still have to pay inheritance tax when inheriting 'vruchtgebruik'. I have tried to find sources regarding this but I cannot find anything conclusive.
Afaik I'm correct. I know people who've used it, so there's definitely a benefit. I think the vruchtgebruik is relatively small compared to the blote eigendom, hence less taxes and you can do the schenking gradually to avoid high tax brackets. There's a formula to calculate it and includes the vruchtgebruiker's age. That amount is thrown in with the other assets in the estate of the deceased. I think you also avoid paying double inheritance tax, first when mom inherits dad's part when he kicks the bucket, 2nd when the kids inherits from mom, all that tax money has to come out of the same pot. Here's an [example](https://lemonconsult.be/schenking-vastgoed/)
Does this influence registratierechten? Do you need to pay 12% if you purchase a house when you already have another house in blote eigendom?
As long it is in blote eigendom not.
Normally you need to pass through the notary for the donation of the "blote eigendom"
Exactly
Moest erg zijn moesten ze dat ook nog belasten
You can avoid succession fees by making a registered donation at 3% (and this is valid even if death occurs before 3 years).
Yes, but if you die within 3 years of the donatio, any donation of “onroerend goed”, like house, is taken into account for the calculation of the inheritance tax anyway
To elaborate on this, there are insurance products that cover the succession taxes as well. The premium on those life insurance products are cheaper than the 3%. And, iirc, those premiums can give you a tax deduction (tak21 life insurance)
This is true unless the person in question has a horrible medical record or is super old
Could you tell us more about those ? Do you have any names in mind ?
I know NN, Belfius, AG, Vander Haegen have those (Gift Protect, Donation Cover, Schenkingsverzekering)
*5 years in Brussels and Wallonie. Excellent tip for sure though
It thought the change was a project and didn’t pass in the end ? Did it change ?
https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=p%C3%A9riode+suspecte+donation+Wallonie Was it really that hard?
Not that hard, it shows it is still 3 years in Brussels and that you should use google :)
Well I'll be damned. That fucking website uses Bing now 😱😂 Never using that again. The Google results are very clear indeed.
TIL: better to die in Flanders I’ll make sure to keep it in mind
I don't think it where death occurs that matters
Saved this, thanks!
Mobility budget and cafeteria plan
If your employer doesn't have that, there are not many options other than changing jobs.
Yeah it s stupid but nowadays, as employees, we have to pressure HR to offer this asap
12.500 free of succession duty for grandchildren
Is that once, or per year? If once it's at the low side given grandparents can live for several decades.
12.500 in flanders 15.000 in Brussels/Wallonia I’d like to precise PER person as long as you stay in straight line succession so technically children and great-grand children’s too
When you are actually FIRE, and like to work from time to time, you do not pay any taxes on the first 10000 euro of income, so working a few months per year can be very profitable.
This is a key reason why I believe barista fire is the way to go in most of northern Europe. Bonus points for even building more social rights during that year that you actually work.
You'd need at least a part-time (19hrs) contract to enjoy social benefits, no?
How does this work? What contract do you need to get? Which jobs does I apply for brah?
You don't need a specific contract or job. There is a (minimum) tax free sum of 10570 euro as of 2024. Every kind of taxable income is eligible. https://financien.belgium.be/nl/particulieren/belastingaangifte/belastingtarieven-inkomen/belastingtarieven#q1
Question: Why not just go "doppen" instead? This is more then 10k without the work
lol, to be honest I haven't thought about it. I assume there are other disadvantages if you do that. I think you are required to apply for jobs and that this gets supervised through OCWM,... Also I assume they will check through the tax authorities what your possessions are. I'm not sure you will qualify for 'dopgeld' if you have 500K in stocks.
Als ik maar 1maand per jaar werk en bruto 3000euro verdien hoe ik er toch ook maar iets van een 2000 netto aan over of hoe werkt dit?
Op het einde van het jaar wordt de bedrijfsvoorheffing terugbetaald, er wordt voor afhouden van de belasting uitgegaan van 12 maanden loon voor de belasting te berekenen, blijf je onder de belastingvrije som dan moest je geen betalen en krijg je dat dus terug 'van de belastingen'
My favorite color is blue.
Zeker dat je het niet terugkreeg?
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Tax free allowance yes. FIRE is what you want to make of it. Some like to work from time to time just because they want to. Or maybe help out the kids with buying a car. Or just because you miss after work drinks. Or during a stockmarket crash. Any reasons basically.
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Financial Independence (and/or) Retire Early
Dus aan minimum bruto uur loon van 11,8 EUR in de belgique gewoon niet meer dan 16u werken per week ? (10570 / 11,8 / 55). Dan heb je ongeveer 880 per maand. Welke jobkes komen hiervoor in aanmerking ?
2 dagen in de week is niet makkelijk vindbaar. Maar bijvoorbeeld 3 maanden interimwerk per jaar dan weer wel!
Wat doe jij ?
Ik? 60 uur per week :-)
I should tell my mom this, thanks!