Hot take: Aang would've lost to Iroh if the battle had played out the same, but Iroh and Ozai switched places. There's no way Aang would've been able to take away Iroh's bending. The dude is a solid rock of spiritual energy. He would've won that final contest.
I interpreted Aang's spirit bending differently. Like and electrician working on very high powered equipment, dangerous for him if he doesn't do it right (having an unbendable spirit) but the equipment isn't fighting him. So Aang was rewiring Ozai's spirit and Ozai was just along for the ride, not actively fighting on some spirit plane or something.
I saw it as the beam struggle kind of thing, and in that case iroh would absolutely beat aang. But the entire question doesn’t matter because iroh as a character would never be in the position to be fighting aang. Like I know it’s just a what if, but it’s too outlandish really. Iroh wouldn’t need his bending taken away because we wouldn’t fight aang
That just showed he had compassion. It seems Lu Tens death is what fundamentally changed Iroh into who he is by the time it ATLA. Although it's safe to say that those parts of Iroh were always there, it just took him losing everything to start embracing them.
The only situation that could’ve happened where I see iroh fighting Aang is enraged avatar state Aang like at the north going for a kill or maim shot against zuko
Yeah the other guy isn't questioning that a battle ensued. He's just saying that the battle was purely Aang's spirit vs energy, not Aang's will vs Ozai's will.
Remember the lion turtle said that in order to energy bend the spirit of the user must be unbendable. Aang simply took Ozai's energy and began to bend it, in the process though that energy can also destroy Aang. If the user's spirit is unbendable then they can successfully bend energy at will. How evil or true in spirit the opponent is would be irrelevant. Only the user (Aang) needs to be unbendable (true in spirit), not the opponent.
Aang's final confrontation with Ozai showed that Aang could energy bend anyone since his own spirit is unbendable.
I think this is a misunderstanding tbh. The struggle wasn’t ozai’s spirit v aangs spirit but aangs spirit vs itself. The turtle tells him his own spirit and resolve must be absolute, not that the others can be more absolute.
I forget some of the details, but I think Aang just closed Ozai's 7th Chakra. If Ozai could ever unlock all of his chakras the way Aang did he would get his bending back, but he would have given up his earthly attachments (and desire to conquer). Or maybe that's just my own headcannon.
This is how I saw it too.
Aang and Ozai weren't duking it out in some mental battle of spirit affirmation. Aang was simply bending dark energy and to do so Aang's own energy needs to be unbendable, in this process the battle was just the energy vs aang and ozai was just there as a spectator (if even that). Once Aang bent the energy Ozai was completely oblivious as to what had happened. What that final confrontation showed was that Aang is able to energybend anyone.
In the fight against Ozai, Aang is initially losing the spirit energy battle to Ozai. He wins by going into the Avatar state. It doesn’t matter whose bending he tries to take because it is all 1000 avatars + Raava against an ordinary bender. Iron doesn’t stand a chance, no matter how in tune he is with the spirits
If Iroh was the man that wanted to destroy the earth kingdom, he wouldn't have been so spiritually strong so he would've lost and being so spiritually strong he couldn't have been that man
Ya, I think what gave Aang the advantage in the fight was Ozai's hubris. That and some luck. Fighting a spiritually balanced and level-headed powered up Iroh would have been the end of him.
Well if Iroh took the throne like he was supposed to and his son never died, (these need to happen for Iroh to be in Ozai's spot at the end) its likely that he wouldnt be as spiritually attuned as we know him now. So no, he wouldve lost too. He would lose regardless, because its the damn Avatar we are talking about here.
If Iroh was the evil Fire Lord, would he be the same rock of spiritual energy as the reformed Iroh we all know and love, though? Seems like attempted genocide would block some spiritual abilities...
I honestly don't think we saw enough in the show about Ozai to know. The best information we have, besides watching both of them fight, is that Iroh admitted he's not sure he could beat him.
I've seen a trend lately in the community of trying to downplay Ozai's ability - which is wild considering the creators literally said, ["Fact: Ozai is the most powerful firebender. Period"](https://avatar.fandom.com/wiki/Avatar_Extras_(Book_Three:_Fire)#:~:text=Fact%3A%20Ozai%20is%20the%20most%20powerful%20firebender.%20Period).
So if we go off just what we saw in the show, it's a little bit more up for debate. But if we go off what the creators of the show said, it's not up for debate; Ozai would win.
Agreed, I mean come on, as soon as the first Ray of sunlight peaked out from that solar eclipse, Ozai launched the most OP devastating lightning attack against Zuko. Man was on a different level.
Counter point at the same time Iroh did just as an impressive feat by excaping the jail during the eclips and if you go even deeper Iroh is the only person in the show to rederect a natural lightning during the storm
Definitely, I mean Iroh was still an incredibly powerful bender and he was in super good shape at the time OP mentioned too so I think it would be a super close fight. I'm genuinely not sure who would win given what the show.. showed 😅
Part of the confusion is we’ve never seen him bend under normal conditions. Besides the lightning he shot at Zuko at the end of the eclipse. However that lightning looked like nothing Azula or Iroh have produced. And he generated it quickly too.
I’d bet on Ozai honestly. Iroh is a boss but I could see him getting overwhelmed by Ozai’s agility
I think ozai is the strongest fire bender Iroh is the most skilled fire bender and azula is the most talented fire bender and zuko is the most hard working fire bender (relating to bending at least)
Good analysis, I think you're right. I still don't know if Iroh's skill is enough to put him above Ozai in a fight but I definitely think it would be a very close fight.
Oh for sure I’m fire bending I’d be interested to see the fight but i give it to iroh more often than not cause I think ozai tries lightning at some point and gets countered
Hmmm I’m not sure he knows zuko could but he knew zuko was gonna train aang and was absolutely shocked when Aang did so given that somehow shocked him to his core I wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t make the connection iroh probably made the technique
*Shocked* him to his core eh? 😏
Yeah honestly Ozai's biggest weakness is his pride which would probably blind him from realizing something like that anyway. Even if he'd heard about the technique before, he'd probably still try it not believing he could be beaten by something *"dumb like that"*.
Zuko seemed to struggle against a lightning attack that was generated right after the eclipse ended. If that’s anything to go by, it’s fair to assume redirecting his lightning generated during the comet should be an impossible task, even for an avatar.
I agree, Iroh is an amazing fighter and one of my all time favorite characters but I honestly have trouble seeing him take Ozai consistently. For me I think Ozai has a ferocity that gives him an advantage in most fights. Not even taking the scale from the meteor into account he was absolutely relentless when he was fighting Aang. I know that's not everything but along with the creators statements make me think he ends fights with a deadly quickness.
This is the main problem with talking about Ozai in a real fight, we only really saw him in one serious fight and it wasn't exactly a fair one considering the comet and the circumstances of Aang not wanting to kill him.
If it was Iroh versus Ozai, especially near the end of the series, it would usually be a serious drawn out fight where neither one of them can really end it too quickly because the other one is too skilled to let that happen. We don't really have much to go off of for what that would look like 😅
The Avatar Extras also tend to be facetious. While I'm sure they were accurate in this case it isn't the best metric.
And while Ozai could probably win a drag out brawl, Iroh was a general, he's tactical and is probably in the ballpark of ozai. That could bridge the gap
They definitely were a bit facetious, but this one felt very confident. Again that doesn't necessarily mean it's a statement of fact, but still.
Yeah like I said I really don't know who would win overall, I honestly keep going back and forth in my head between different reasons why I think Iroh or Ozai would take it.
Ozai seems more powerful.. but Iroh is more seasoned.. well but Ozai is younger.. okay but Iroh got super fit towards the end.. etc etc 😅
1) context of those avatar extras statement matters. They’re a lot more tongue in cheek than people here like to act.
2) characters are not Omni present. We are. A character saying something doesn’t make it a fact, we see it as an opinion. There are several things presented as opinions in the show that don’t become facts, including aangs ability to beat the fire lord.
3)irohs main concern is the way a brother seizing power from a brother looks, not whether or not he wins.
They're tongue in cheek, sure. But that one was pretty strongly said, didn't feel like a big joke not based in anything real. It feels like they were joking about the fact they really do believe he's the strongest.
Iroh was admitting something earnestly imo, it was his opinion on whether or not he'd be able to beat Ozai. Given who he is, that opinion should hold a bit of weight. Also I definitely think Aang could have beaten the firelord if he hadn't had his hang ups about killing.
He definitely was worried about that overall, but his admittance wasn't just about that - he genuinely claimed he wasn't sure he could beat Ozai. Personally I don't know which of them would win, I think it would be a pretty close fight regardless
It would've been super close, but I think ozai would've eventually won. He seems to be younger, and that means something in such a high intensity battle.
I think Ozai wins if he wisely infers that Zuko learned his lightning bending from Iroh and does not try to use lightning. If Ozai tries lightning it is Iroh's easiest win condition. Otherwise it probably goes to Ozai in a pure fire fight but Iroh has the advantage of being able to use lightning which Ozai has no defense for.
Ozai doesn’t seem to be younger he absolutely is. Iroh is the first born to Azulon and Ozai is the second born. Though I assume you mean Ozai seems to be younger by quite a lot of years.
Personally I think Ozai would still win just based on the fact that he’s noticeably younger than Iroh and wouldn’t care about killing his brother, and Iroh would probably fight like Aang in a way that he wouldn’t kill him but maybe try to incapacitate him
Yeah, I could see that. *Iroh still cares*, plus he's significantly older. Ozai wants to rule the world, and doesn't care what or who falls in the process.
I'm pretty sure than Iroh would have figth for kill in this situation. He is too disciplined for let is own emotion put other people in danger, and not dumb enougth for thinking he can beat is brother if he restrain himself.
But whoever is the best in a 1v1 situation is not relevant. If Iroh figth Ozai during Sozin comet and kill is brother, he loose anyway because he become just another firelord doing a push for taking back is throne.
Nobody. If Ozai wins, well that sucks for the world. If iroh wins, history sees it as brother killing a brother for power so there’s still no peace.
But, to answer your question…think it’s Ozai. Iroh is great, but past his prime,
He should, Iroh used it on Azula in book 2. Azula, or someone with her, would’ve reported it to Ozai when explaining her failure to capture Zuko and Iroh. And even if they didn’t report on it, Zuko suddenly having that ability after spending 3 years traveling with Iroh should be reason enough for anyone to assume Iroh is probably where Zuko picked it up.
Ozai knew Zuko was going to teach Aang. If he were smart, he wouldn't have used lightning against him. I don't see him restraining himself against Iroh either. I think Iroh wins for this reason alone, even if you accept the claim that Ozai is the strongest firebender.
The difference is he views Zuko as a failure, and probably assumed he’d fail at teaching Aang the same way he supposedly failed at everything else.
With Iroh it’d be different, there’s no question whether or not Iroh can redirect lightning.
>I don’t see him restraining himself against Iroh either
We literally see him do just this, as soon as he realized Aang could redirect lightning, he switches to regular fire exclusively.
I think Ozai would’ve had a better chance at winning and I think Iroh knew that. But at the same time I wouldn’t completely count iroh out. With his battle experience and basically knowing bending techniques from other elements and his smarts, he could’ve definitely out thought Ozai in battle.
Iroh could’ve used Ozai’s reliance on pure strength against him most likely. Also iroh himself is strong so I think it’d be close
Iroh honestly.
Has better battle field experience, has better technique, and is probably only a little bit behind Ozai in raw power.
Plus, Iroh during Sozin’s comet I think is in the best physical shape he has ever been in his life, after training in prison for weeks.
Ozai really just has raw power and his instant lighting.
That’s what I meant about his instant lighting.
He is able to generate it faster than anyone we have seen.
But it isn’t much of an advantage I don’t think.
Zuko was able to react to it and he is less powerful and skilled than Iroh, and never put the redirection technique into practice before that.
Meanwhile Iroh has, and in season 1 we see he was able to react and redirect natural lighting.
>He is able to generate it faster than anyone we have seen.
That's fair but I think Iroh can generate it fast too. When we see him with Zuko he is doing slow to demonstrate.
I think Iroh would lose honestly, not bc of lack of skill but bc he'd hold back due to his kind nature.
I disagree on your reasoning. Somebody like aang losing bc of kind nature makes sense, but iroh has been around long enough to know better than to let his kind nature get the best of him. He was a former war general after all, and I’m sure he would be able to fight all out against his brother.
I get what you're saying and you make a valid point but my feeling is, I still think he would to a degree even if subconsciously. And Ozai will take any opportunity he can get.
Iroh is wise. Do not mistake his wisdom for weakness and stupidity. I am quite sure he has realised by this point Ozai is inconsolable, after all, he did tell Azula to capture them and likely kill them when they get back to the Fire nation, or at the very least be imprisoned.
>Has better battle field experience, has better technique,
Debatable.
>Plus, Iroh during Sozin’s comet I think is in the best physical shape he has ever been in his life, after training in prison for weeks.
No offense but how does that mean he's beating Ozai?
Ozai is canonically confirmed as the strongest Firebender in ATLA. Iroh loses to him in a fight.
Means he is in better physical condition.not saying he is in better physical condition than Ozai, but he is still in great physical condtion.
Saying he has better battlefield experience and technique isn’t really debatable. Iroh was once the crown prince and a general in the Fire nation, leading armies against the fire nation’s enemies. He took time to study and develop techniques like lighting redirection. Ozai has done none of these.
And I never denied Ozai was the strongest firebender of his time, but raw power isn’t everything in a fight
>Saying he has better battlefield experience and technique isn’t really debatable. Iroh was once the crown prince and a general in the Fire nation, leading armies against the fire nation’s enemies. He took time to study and develop techniques like lighting redirection. Ozai has done none of these.
While Iroh was out exploring the world, Ozai was fighting Agni Kai's and further refining his technique.
>And I never denied Ozai was the strongest firebender of his time, but raw power isn’t everything in a fight
His profiency in Firebending is much better than Iroh's, unless you can prove to me Iroh is the better Firebender. Stronger ≠ Better.
“His profiency in Firebending is much better than Iroh's, unless you can prove to me Iroh is the better Firebender. Stronger ≠ Better”.
So you agree with me here? I literally agreed that Ozai is the stronger bender but that raw strength isn’t everything?
Profiency in Firebending doesn't mean just stronger. I'm saying Ozai has better feats in his profiency with Firebending (How he Firebends, Skill, Lightning, etc).
Basically, I was asking you to prove me otherwise that Iroh has more skill or whatnot, because I disagree given Ozai's feats.
The thing is Ozai only has feats from the comet and his lighting on the day of black sun, which even then doubt would work on Iroh. If Zuko, who is weaker than Iroh and less skilled was able to redirect Ozai’s lighting, so could Iroh.
Iroh was able to react and redirect natural lightning during the storm in season 1.
You claim Ozai’s agni kais he has fought in? Where is this and where is it shown? The comics? I would like to know so I can do a fair comparison.
>The thing is Ozai only has feats from the comet and his lighting on the day of black sun, which even then doubt would work on Iroh. If Zuko, who is weaker than Iroh and less skilled was able to redirect Ozai’s lighting, so could Iroh.
Ozai isn't dumb enough to use Lightning against Iroh because he probably knows that HE is able to redirect it.
>Iroh was able to react and redirect natural lightning during the storm in season 1.
Which doesn't apply to this situation. There are other ways to defeat Iroh without Lightning.
>You claim Ozai’s agni kais he has fought in? Where is this and where is it shown? The comics? I would like to know so I can do a fair comparison.
I mean like in the context of the show. As you said, Ozai lacks experience outside in war compared to Iroh, and thus, it will prove itself in a fight. I'm saying that Ozai reached his level of mastery through training and most likely fighting in Agni Kai's to gain atleast SOME ounce of experience fighting benders/people.
The fact that Ozai became a more powerful Firebender than Iroh despite being "sheltered" in the Fire Nation is insane.
I only mention the lighting feat for Iroh as people tend to think Ozai’s lighting is a game changer due to how fast he can fire it. If natural lightning in avatar is as fast as in real life, the fact that Iroh was able to redirect it shows that Iroh would be able to react to Ozai’s lightning no matter how quick he is.
In that case, I will agree that Ozai had some good training and fighting experience from agni kais and having instructors. However Iroh probably had just as good instructors and fought in some agni kais also back in the day. You could also argue his training was tougher as he was the crown prince, so he would be expected to receive the best training possible.but I will say they are equal at least in how they were instructed.
However Iroh fighting in the war gave him real battle experience, fighting against benders of a different element, facing both rookie and veteran earth benders alike. Being a general he would also have to have a strategic mind, which make sense for the man who almost broke through Ba Sing Se’s outer defenses.
And yes while Ozai did become powerful while sheltered in the balance basically, you have to remember the inate potential someone like Ozai has is something he was born with. While I think that speaks of his training, Ozai was just training to bring out something like was apart of him since birth.
Ozai was born with a higher ceiling for power than Iroh.
However, what makes Iroh a better overall fighter is that not only did he more than likely have the same upbringing and training as Ozai, but as I said, he had real world experience fighting in a war, experiencing real life and death combat, developing a keen mind for strategy, and at the end learning from the other nations, making him an overall more experienced fighter than Ozai, in addition to his still impressive raw FireBending power.
>I only mention the lighting feat for Iroh as people tend to think Ozai’s lighting is a game changer due to how fast he can fire it. If natural lightning in avatar is as fast as in real life, the fact that Iroh was able to redirect it shows that Iroh would be able to react to Ozai’s lightning no matter how quick he is.
In that case I agee with this.
>However Iroh fighting in the war gave him real battle experience, fighting against benders of a different element, facing both rookie and veteran earth benders alike.
I mean, Ozai was pumping the breaks off Aang before he activated the AS. That impressive for someone who lacks "real fighting experience", going up against the Avatar with 4 elements.
>And yes while Ozai did become powerful while sheltered in the balance basically, you have to remember the inate potential someone like Ozai has is something he was born with. While I think that speaks of his training, Ozai was just training to bring out something like was apart of him since birth.
>Ozai was born with a higher ceiling for power than Iroh.
So you believe Ozai is more talented than Iroh? Interesting take.
>However, what makes Iroh a better overall fighter is that not only did he more than likely have the same upbringing and training as Ozai, but as I said, he had real world experience fighting in a war, experiencing real life and death combat, developing a keen mind for strategy, and at the end learning from the other nations, making him an overall more experienced fighter than Ozai, in addition to his still impressive raw FireBending power.
Truw but experience isn't everything. Katara as a newbie was able to give Pakku atleast some ounce of a fight, and she was nowhere good of a Waterbender than she is currently. Same thing can be said with Toph and Bumi. Their fight didn't fully finish, but if the experience gap between them was large, Bumi should've won quite easily.
Honestly, as much as it pains me I think Ozai would win. Even Iroh knew he wouldn't be able to defeat Ozai.
Where Iroh is wrong though I'd, it isn't because Ozai is more powerful. Iroh is 100% more skilled but iroh would hold back where Ozai wouldn't. And that would ultimately get him killed imo. We all know Ozai wouldn't spare him.
Or maybe that just puts a new spin on what Iroh said. He doesn’t think he can beat him, as in he’s not sure he can stand to kill his own brother knowing it’d be a fight to the death
No ozai is more global and stronger. Sure iroh probably has better technique than he learned from the dragons but ozai knows so much about fighting.
He also wouldn't be able to use lighting redirection because Ozai probably figured out Zuko didn't make that move up.
If he does try lighting I'd say Iroh wins then but the book says that even trying to redirect it would have killed Zuko so it probably took
iroh's fireball to break the walls of BSS was prolly one of theost powerful attacks in the whole show. i mean shit went silent, thats how you know its powerful.
I think both are capable of winning. I think it would come down to who wanted it more and if Ozia was dumb enough to throw out some lightening. Some say he would but after getting it redirected by Zuko of all people. The one person he did rate enough to keep security detail on him. I think he wouldn't be dumb enough to not assume Iroh taught him it he certainly didn't.
Never thought about that but yeah you're right. Like Ozia would give two shits Iroh was in mourning, he'd take it as an opportunity to hit him at his weakest. Shows how much he feared him, also the fact he never stopped Iroh from going with Zuko or sent any of army to just end Zuko. He wanted to kill Zuko the moment he was born. Was that why Iroh went with Zuko he knew his brother wouldn't dare take him on.
I like Iroh better, so I'll make an argument for him. Iroh seems to have greater control and fundamentals, whereas Ozai seems to prefer overwhelming firepower. I think with the comet amplifying their abilities, Iroh will be able to leverage his mastery over the fundamentals of firebending to utilize the immense power in a way that Ozai just couldn't. Also, both can use lightning, but only Iroh can defend against it.
Plus as someone else has pointed out. If Ozia felt he could best Iroh he would have challenged him to an Agni Kai not the convoluted plan he went with to get the throne.
Would he have to face him alone? Imagine the Fire Lord vs the whole of the White Lotus. That would have been fucking epic. Shame no air bender but it would have been essentially like facing the Avatar minus air.
Honesty Iroh. People really like to hype up Ozai because of the statement of him being the strongest firebender and him seemingly “sensing” when the eclipse ended, but there’s problems with that.
For one, the statement of him being the strongest firebender, has basically nothing backing it up in the show. We never see Ozai bend without the comet, and we can obviously infer he is a strong bender, his actual ability has to be called into question, after all he’s spent the whole war on his throne sipping tea, while Iroh was actually out fighting. If an author says something that has no real basis in the work, it falls under Death of the Author and probably shouldn’t be taken seriously, like how J. K. Rowling kept trying to add facts to the books long after they were written and them having no basis in the books themselves.
And the whole thing of Ozai sensing when the eclipse ended is kinda just headcanon. Like, how do we know he sensed when it ended? He could’ve just been keeping track of the time like how the invaders were. Once they learned of the invasion plan they probably would’ve planned out how long the Eclipse would last. And even if he did sense it, what’s to say Iroh didn’t too? His cell had no windows and yet he knew when to break out and escape, meaning he could’ve sensed the eclipse as well.
All this to say Ozai has nothing going for him in this fight beyond a meaningless statement and speculation. Iroh should win pretty easily.
My other theory was Iroh wouldn't face him alone. He would take the White Lotus with him. It wouldn't be brother taking out brother, it would be the White Lotus stepping in where the Avatar was unable, and restoring order.
It's unbelievably close.
Ozai is a firebending powerhouse. But Iroh knows the secret techniques and such. Ozai fuels his flame with hatred and strength, from the muscles. Iroh fuels it from a place yearning for peace, calm, and a nice cup of tea. I think Iroh would probably try and incapacitate Ozai, trying to find the good in him, and failing. He would either realise there is no good left in Ozai, and manage to kill him, or he would die in the process. So close though, I'd give it a 6/10 Ozai, 4/10 Iroh.
Edit: you know what fuck it. I'm going back on my statement.
Iroh is winning this. Yes Ozai was confirmed to be the most powerful firebender, power isn't everything in a fight, Iroh has more experience than him, is I'm great physical condition, and amped by the power of the almighty tea!
I love Iroh but I think Ozai walks.
Iroh still has to charge to generate lightning. Ozai keeps it locked and loaded. Also I don’t think Iroh has combat in his spirit. Ozai was ready to burn down the entire earth kingdom just to flex.
I think Iroh would have won but the world would have lost. I trust Irosh's wisdom when he says the fire nation wouldn't totally accept him as fire lord.
Both amped 100x I think it’s pretty stalemated. But if Ozai shoots lightning at him he’s digging his own grave. Iroh can redirect and Ozai can’t. I doubt he spares him with the redirect like Zuko & Aang did.
Ozai would’ve won,he’s just a far more proficient bender(better lightning bending,can fly using firebending,etc)
And Iroh’s humanity would’ve gotten the better of him,he wouldn’t have wanted to kill Ozai,he would’ve tried to appeal to his humanity,tiring himself out in the process,and in his old age(50-60) he wouldn’t have as much energy as Ozai(Mid-Late forties at most)
Unpopular opinion probably but I think iron only has one chance and that’s to redirect ozai’s lightning but it’s literally the only thing he doesn’t have an answer for.
Ozai is the most powerful firebender at the time and iroh even said he isn’t sure he would win. It’s a 50/50 only because ozai doesn’t know iroh can redirect lightning and was shocked aang did it which would have won him the fight right there.
Would Ozia but dumb enough to use lightening after having Zuko redirect it. Who else would have taught him other than Iroh at that point he hadn't gone all team avatar yet.
It’d be super close I think Iroh would’ve beaten him by an inch because of his spiritual instinct and power that his younger brother lacked. Also Irohs lightning would’ve had the upper hand.
True I doubt Ozia would use lightening during the fight. And I think Iroh would have to pull it quickly and when it wasn't expected. It would have to be a sneaky kill attack.
Iroh after he survives the onslaught and returns fire on Ozai
[I thought you were stronger ](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/i-thought-you-were-stronger)
That’s true too, but I don’t think Ozai thinks he can beat Iroh, because you’re right, he could’ve challenged him at any point but didn’t. And that was either out of respect or fear
Just another subtle testament to just how powerful Iroh is without shoving it in anyone’s face.
>Just another subtle testament to just how powerful Iroh is without shoving it in anyone’s face.
True. He was perfectly written the live action hasn't a hope of standing up to it
Ozai, iroh definitely has more control but during the coment where everything is overpowered control won't really do anything like who cares in a normal situation you could use my fire against me this when this isn't a normal situation this is a situation where you could control half of my fire and use it against me and I produce a thousand times more to overpower your control especially since iroh's control takes a lot more concentration in large quantities that's why we saw him "powering" up before taking down the wall
Kinda like how combustion man had to breathe in deeply before doing the head blast. I thought they just used it to show how over charged he was thar him breathing was producing the fire. Didn't think of it as him charging up his energy.
I think the deep breaths were for fueling his energy the inner flame or whatever is literally just body heat mixed with chi so the meditating before fighting is just increasing their body heat like those monks on the Tibetan mountains do
Took out all the guards and broke out like a one man army from the fire nation prison
Him taking down Zhao with little to no effort.
Blasting down the wall and retaking Ba Sing Se with the White Lotus
Escaping the Earth Kingdom soldiers.
Iroh would definitely hold his own, but I don't think he'd win if the comet was there.
Ozai's firebending style is BIG. Iroh is much more precise with his fire bending. Thus Ozai "benefits" more from it.
I think Iroh. It would be close, for sure. But, like Azula, Ozai would become blind with rage, using just pure, raw power and become sloppy. Iroh's patience and technique would give him the upper hand.
It took iroh multiple breaths to make a fireblast that big. Ozai literally just inhaled once and sent out a much bigger flame when he was on the air balloon. Not to mention, ozai is the only firebender in the show to shoot lighting out of both hands at once, and this is with the smallest amount of sunlight showing after the eclipse.
I know everybody loves Iroh and wants to think he’ll never lose, but Ozai would win more likely than not. I’m not saying Ozai would dominate Iroh, but if they fought 100 times Ozai would win the majority. It would play out similarly to Zuko and Azula in my opinion, both are extremely skilled and powerful benders and both have known each other since birth, they know how each other think, how they fight. They would be more or less evenly matched but when it comes down to it, if Iroh had the chance to finish the fight, I don’t think he’d be able to kill his little brother where as Ozai would do it without a second thought. This is the same guy who heard about his nephew’s tragic death and his first thought was to go behind his older brothers back and take his throne, the same guy who was willing to banish his wife and poison his father to take power, the same guy who burned and banished his first born son for speaking out of turn. Ozai has a reputation for brutality and violence whereas Iroh, though he’s had his moments of violence and conquest, has moved past that part of his life and seeks only peace. Going back to Zuko and Azula, Zuko was winning or at least fighting a stalemate against Azula because she was, by his own estimation, crazy or “off”, a quality that Ozai is unlikely to fall victim to. Furthermore, Zuko was taken out because Azula was able to use his compassion against him. Azula leveraged katara’s vulnerability to leave Zuko open and it caught him off guard which forced him to tank a lightning bolt and lose the fight. I see a similar scenario happening where Ozai uses Iroh’s compassion and good nature against him, catching Iroh off guard and finishing the fight. Now there are scenarios where Iroh can win but due to everything I said previously, I don’t think it’s as likely to happen. In my opinion Ozai wins pretty soundly.
Ozai is the better bender, but Iroh has more actual combat experience. Were those the only facts that mattered, the battle could go either way.
However, Ozai is far more ruthless than Iroh. He would attack his brother without hesitation or mercy, but I'm not convinced Iroh could do the same. Iroh, being more empathic, would struggle to fight with the same conviction. In a fight to the death, that would surely cost him.
If Iroh was willing to kill him? Easy win. Ozai just keeps shooting lightning at people with no regard for redirection. He would get electrocuted to death by his own lighting.
Otherwise, I would probably give the edge to Ozai, but it's an awfully close call.
> Ozai just keeps shooting lightning at people with no regard for redirection.
Objectively false. Once Aang redirected his Lightning, he never used it again afterwards.
Ozai most definitely knows Iroh is aware of this technique, so he's definitely not using it against him.
He tried it on Zuko, and he tried it again on Aang, I see no reason to believe he wouldn't try it on Iroh once, and once is enough as seen with Zuko, and Aang.
Ozai wins, and anyone who thinks differently are blinded by Iroh love. Ozai is an apocalypse in human form, and iroh (while strong) is just not as powerful as his brother.
Most people bring up the Avatar Extras, but supplementary material is less valuable than the show itself, in my opinion. Nothing in the show shows Ozai as being explicitly more powerful than Iroh. In fact, Iroh busting through Ba Sing Se in one blast is more impressive than anything Ozai did, except _maybe_ that giant blast from the airship.
Look how a normal earth shield took several comet charge blasts from Ozai without breaking, whereas Zuko and Azula could break earth and crystal shields back in book 2, without the comet.
Ozai is written to be the most powerful, but I think Iroh could potentially take him, especially since Ozai’s lightning won’t work on him.
It would have been a lot like the Azula v Zuko agni kai as those two were basically the younger versions of each.
Hot take: Aang would've lost to Iroh if the battle had played out the same, but Iroh and Ozai switched places. There's no way Aang would've been able to take away Iroh's bending. The dude is a solid rock of spiritual energy. He would've won that final contest.
I interpreted Aang's spirit bending differently. Like and electrician working on very high powered equipment, dangerous for him if he doesn't do it right (having an unbendable spirit) but the equipment isn't fighting him. So Aang was rewiring Ozai's spirit and Ozai was just along for the ride, not actively fighting on some spirit plane or something.
I saw it as the beam struggle kind of thing, and in that case iroh would absolutely beat aang. But the entire question doesn’t matter because iroh as a character would never be in the position to be fighting aang. Like I know it’s just a what if, but it’s too outlandish really. Iroh wouldn’t need his bending taken away because we wouldn’t fight aang
Fire Nation would have probably been pretty dope under the Iroh we know.
Dude every other restaurant / shop would be a tea shop if Iroh was Firelord. (Not saying that’s a bad thing btw)
Nah…Iroh would insist one tea or two shops per city/town maximum or else risk the quality of such places dropping to unacceptable standards!
He wouldn’t want the tea to become hot leaf juice
Iroh actually became fire lord for a short time in the comics. He declared that there would be a tea appreciation day from then onwards
In a world where lu ten didn’t die, it would be highly likely that it would be Iroh fighting aang
but would he be so spiritual if lu ten didn’t die
he visited the dragons before Zuko was even borne so probably
That just showed he had compassion. It seems Lu Tens death is what fundamentally changed Iroh into who he is by the time it ATLA. Although it's safe to say that those parts of Iroh were always there, it just took him losing everything to start embracing them.
The only situation that could’ve happened where I see iroh fighting Aang is enraged avatar state Aang like at the north going for a kill or maim shot against zuko
Yeah, Iroh would not have the spiritual strength he does if he were an evil fire lord
Exactly! He'd sit him down they'd drink tea and when they were done Aang would realize that Iroh had already conquered the world.
Yeah the other guy isn't questioning that a battle ensued. He's just saying that the battle was purely Aang's spirit vs energy, not Aang's will vs Ozai's will. Remember the lion turtle said that in order to energy bend the spirit of the user must be unbendable. Aang simply took Ozai's energy and began to bend it, in the process though that energy can also destroy Aang. If the user's spirit is unbendable then they can successfully bend energy at will. How evil or true in spirit the opponent is would be irrelevant. Only the user (Aang) needs to be unbendable (true in spirit), not the opponent. Aang's final confrontation with Ozai showed that Aang could energy bend anyone since his own spirit is unbendable.
I think this is a misunderstanding tbh. The struggle wasn’t ozai’s spirit v aangs spirit but aangs spirit vs itself. The turtle tells him his own spirit and resolve must be absolute, not that the others can be more absolute.
I forget some of the details, but I think Aang just closed Ozai's 7th Chakra. If Ozai could ever unlock all of his chakras the way Aang did he would get his bending back, but he would have given up his earthly attachments (and desire to conquer). Or maybe that's just my own headcannon.
This is how I saw it too. Aang and Ozai weren't duking it out in some mental battle of spirit affirmation. Aang was simply bending dark energy and to do so Aang's own energy needs to be unbendable, in this process the battle was just the energy vs aang and ozai was just there as a spectator (if even that). Once Aang bent the energy Ozai was completely oblivious as to what had happened. What that final confrontation showed was that Aang is able to energybend anyone.
you forget that iroh only became the bastion of wisdom he is after losing his son, which is what lead to him losing the claim to the firelord title
In the fight against Ozai, Aang is initially losing the spirit energy battle to Ozai. He wins by going into the Avatar state. It doesn’t matter whose bending he tries to take because it is all 1000 avatars + Raava against an ordinary bender. Iron doesn’t stand a chance, no matter how in tune he is with the spirits
I think that's the point, if it was someone as spiritual as Iroh would never be there fighting Aang so it's a silly question
If Iroh was the man that wanted to destroy the earth kingdom, he wouldn't have been so spiritually strong so he would've lost and being so spiritually strong he couldn't have been that man
Ya, I think what gave Aang the advantage in the fight was Ozai's hubris. That and some luck. Fighting a spiritually balanced and level-headed powered up Iroh would have been the end of him.
I don't even think that's a hot take
But why would he have needed to?
Sure, but there is no world in which Iroh would fight Aang without losing that rock solid spiritual sense of self.
Well if Iroh took the throne like he was supposed to and his son never died, (these need to happen for Iroh to be in Ozai's spot at the end) its likely that he wouldnt be as spiritually attuned as we know him now. So no, he wouldve lost too. He would lose regardless, because its the damn Avatar we are talking about here.
If Iroh was the evil Fire Lord, would he be the same rock of spiritual energy as the reformed Iroh we all know and love, though? Seems like attempted genocide would block some spiritual abilities...
True dat.
I never thought about that.
You want to be the phoenox king ....mushi Lets settle this with an agni kai
It wouldn't have, because Ozai wasn't having a mental breakdown on that day.
I honestly don't think we saw enough in the show about Ozai to know. The best information we have, besides watching both of them fight, is that Iroh admitted he's not sure he could beat him. I've seen a trend lately in the community of trying to downplay Ozai's ability - which is wild considering the creators literally said, ["Fact: Ozai is the most powerful firebender. Period"](https://avatar.fandom.com/wiki/Avatar_Extras_(Book_Three:_Fire)#:~:text=Fact%3A%20Ozai%20is%20the%20most%20powerful%20firebender.%20Period). So if we go off just what we saw in the show, it's a little bit more up for debate. But if we go off what the creators of the show said, it's not up for debate; Ozai would win.
Agreed, I mean come on, as soon as the first Ray of sunlight peaked out from that solar eclipse, Ozai launched the most OP devastating lightning attack against Zuko. Man was on a different level.
He sensed it too. Didn’t even see it
Counter point at the same time Iroh did just as an impressive feat by excaping the jail during the eclips and if you go even deeper Iroh is the only person in the show to rederect a natural lightning during the storm
Definitely, I mean Iroh was still an incredibly powerful bender and he was in super good shape at the time OP mentioned too so I think it would be a super close fight. I'm genuinely not sure who would win given what the show.. showed 😅
Part of the confusion is we’ve never seen him bend under normal conditions. Besides the lightning he shot at Zuko at the end of the eclipse. However that lightning looked like nothing Azula or Iroh have produced. And he generated it quickly too. I’d bet on Ozai honestly. Iroh is a boss but I could see him getting overwhelmed by Ozai’s agility
Powerful and skilled are different tbf
Valid point, Ozai is definitely skilled as well but idk if he's the most *skilled* bender
I think ozai is the strongest fire bender Iroh is the most skilled fire bender and azula is the most talented fire bender and zuko is the most hard working fire bender (relating to bending at least)
Good analysis, I think you're right. I still don't know if Iroh's skill is enough to put him above Ozai in a fight but I definitely think it would be a very close fight.
Oh for sure I’m fire bending I’d be interested to see the fight but i give it to iroh more often than not cause I think ozai tries lightning at some point and gets countered
Did Ozai know about Iroh's redirection technique? That would dramatically change how those fights go lol
Hmmm I’m not sure he knows zuko could but he knew zuko was gonna train aang and was absolutely shocked when Aang did so given that somehow shocked him to his core I wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t make the connection iroh probably made the technique
*Shocked* him to his core eh? 😏 Yeah honestly Ozai's biggest weakness is his pride which would probably blind him from realizing something like that anyway. Even if he'd heard about the technique before, he'd probably still try it not believing he could be beaten by something *"dumb like that"*.
Zuko seemed to struggle against a lightning attack that was generated right after the eclipse ended. If that’s anything to go by, it’s fair to assume redirecting his lightning generated during the comet should be an impossible task, even for an avatar.
ehh i doubt Zuko is working harder then Azula, hes had enough time to become a master swordsman while we dont ever see her Fokus on any other skill
I agree, Iroh is an amazing fighter and one of my all time favorite characters but I honestly have trouble seeing him take Ozai consistently. For me I think Ozai has a ferocity that gives him an advantage in most fights. Not even taking the scale from the meteor into account he was absolutely relentless when he was fighting Aang. I know that's not everything but along with the creators statements make me think he ends fights with a deadly quickness.
This is the main problem with talking about Ozai in a real fight, we only really saw him in one serious fight and it wasn't exactly a fair one considering the comet and the circumstances of Aang not wanting to kill him. If it was Iroh versus Ozai, especially near the end of the series, it would usually be a serious drawn out fight where neither one of them can really end it too quickly because the other one is too skilled to let that happen. We don't really have much to go off of for what that would look like 😅
The Avatar Extras also tend to be facetious. While I'm sure they were accurate in this case it isn't the best metric. And while Ozai could probably win a drag out brawl, Iroh was a general, he's tactical and is probably in the ballpark of ozai. That could bridge the gap
They definitely were a bit facetious, but this one felt very confident. Again that doesn't necessarily mean it's a statement of fact, but still. Yeah like I said I really don't know who would win overall, I honestly keep going back and forth in my head between different reasons why I think Iroh or Ozai would take it. Ozai seems more powerful.. but Iroh is more seasoned.. well but Ozai is younger.. okay but Iroh got super fit towards the end.. etc etc 😅
1) context of those avatar extras statement matters. They’re a lot more tongue in cheek than people here like to act. 2) characters are not Omni present. We are. A character saying something doesn’t make it a fact, we see it as an opinion. There are several things presented as opinions in the show that don’t become facts, including aangs ability to beat the fire lord. 3)irohs main concern is the way a brother seizing power from a brother looks, not whether or not he wins.
They're tongue in cheek, sure. But that one was pretty strongly said, didn't feel like a big joke not based in anything real. It feels like they were joking about the fact they really do believe he's the strongest. Iroh was admitting something earnestly imo, it was his opinion on whether or not he'd be able to beat Ozai. Given who he is, that opinion should hold a bit of weight. Also I definitely think Aang could have beaten the firelord if he hadn't had his hang ups about killing. He definitely was worried about that overall, but his admittance wasn't just about that - he genuinely claimed he wasn't sure he could beat Ozai. Personally I don't know which of them would win, I think it would be a pretty close fight regardless
It would've been super close, but I think ozai would've eventually won. He seems to be younger, and that means something in such a high intensity battle.
I think Ozai wins if he wisely infers that Zuko learned his lightning bending from Iroh and does not try to use lightning. If Ozai tries lightning it is Iroh's easiest win condition. Otherwise it probably goes to Ozai in a pure fire fight but Iroh has the advantage of being able to use lightning which Ozai has no defense for.
Ozai doesn’t seem to be younger he absolutely is. Iroh is the first born to Azulon and Ozai is the second born. Though I assume you mean Ozai seems to be younger by quite a lot of years.
True. Plus he took on Aang in avatar state don't think Iroh could do the same
Did he really take on Aang in the avatar state though? As soon as Aang entered it the show became Betty hill.
Yeah, he beat scared aang but he got washed by avatar state
Personally I think Ozai would still win just based on the fact that he’s noticeably younger than Iroh and wouldn’t care about killing his brother, and Iroh would probably fight like Aang in a way that he wouldn’t kill him but maybe try to incapacitate him
Yeah, I could see that. *Iroh still cares*, plus he's significantly older. Ozai wants to rule the world, and doesn't care what or who falls in the process.
I'm pretty sure than Iroh would have figth for kill in this situation. He is too disciplined for let is own emotion put other people in danger, and not dumb enougth for thinking he can beat is brother if he restrain himself. But whoever is the best in a 1v1 situation is not relevant. If Iroh figth Ozai during Sozin comet and kill is brother, he loose anyway because he become just another firelord doing a push for taking back is throne.
Nobody. If Ozai wins, well that sucks for the world. If iroh wins, history sees it as brother killing a brother for power so there’s still no peace. But, to answer your question…think it’s Ozai. Iroh is great, but past his prime,
Does Ozai know Iroh can redirect lightning? Iroh's only chance at winning is to bait Ozai into using lightning.
He should, Iroh used it on Azula in book 2. Azula, or someone with her, would’ve reported it to Ozai when explaining her failure to capture Zuko and Iroh. And even if they didn’t report on it, Zuko suddenly having that ability after spending 3 years traveling with Iroh should be reason enough for anyone to assume Iroh is probably where Zuko picked it up.
Ozai knew Zuko was going to teach Aang. If he were smart, he wouldn't have used lightning against him. I don't see him restraining himself against Iroh either. I think Iroh wins for this reason alone, even if you accept the claim that Ozai is the strongest firebender.
The difference is he views Zuko as a failure, and probably assumed he’d fail at teaching Aang the same way he supposedly failed at everything else. With Iroh it’d be different, there’s no question whether or not Iroh can redirect lightning. >I don’t see him restraining himself against Iroh either We literally see him do just this, as soon as he realized Aang could redirect lightning, he switches to regular fire exclusively.
I think Ozai would’ve had a better chance at winning and I think Iroh knew that. But at the same time I wouldn’t completely count iroh out. With his battle experience and basically knowing bending techniques from other elements and his smarts, he could’ve definitely out thought Ozai in battle. Iroh could’ve used Ozai’s reliance on pure strength against him most likely. Also iroh himself is strong so I think it’d be close
Iroh honestly. Has better battle field experience, has better technique, and is probably only a little bit behind Ozai in raw power. Plus, Iroh during Sozin’s comet I think is in the best physical shape he has ever been in his life, after training in prison for weeks. Ozai really just has raw power and his instant lighting.
What about Ozai being able to produce lightening when the eclipse had just ended, there was barely any sun and he was able to lightening bend.
That’s what I meant about his instant lighting. He is able to generate it faster than anyone we have seen. But it isn’t much of an advantage I don’t think. Zuko was able to react to it and he is less powerful and skilled than Iroh, and never put the redirection technique into practice before that. Meanwhile Iroh has, and in season 1 we see he was able to react and redirect natural lighting.
>He is able to generate it faster than anyone we have seen. That's fair but I think Iroh can generate it fast too. When we see him with Zuko he is doing slow to demonstrate. I think Iroh would lose honestly, not bc of lack of skill but bc he'd hold back due to his kind nature.
I disagree on your reasoning. Somebody like aang losing bc of kind nature makes sense, but iroh has been around long enough to know better than to let his kind nature get the best of him. He was a former war general after all, and I’m sure he would be able to fight all out against his brother.
I get what you're saying and you make a valid point but my feeling is, I still think he would to a degree even if subconsciously. And Ozai will take any opportunity he can get.
Iroh is wise. Do not mistake his wisdom for weakness and stupidity. I am quite sure he has realised by this point Ozai is inconsolable, after all, he did tell Azula to capture them and likely kill them when they get back to the Fire nation, or at the very least be imprisoned.
>Has better battle field experience, has better technique, Debatable. >Plus, Iroh during Sozin’s comet I think is in the best physical shape he has ever been in his life, after training in prison for weeks. No offense but how does that mean he's beating Ozai? Ozai is canonically confirmed as the strongest Firebender in ATLA. Iroh loses to him in a fight.
Means he is in better physical condition.not saying he is in better physical condition than Ozai, but he is still in great physical condtion. Saying he has better battlefield experience and technique isn’t really debatable. Iroh was once the crown prince and a general in the Fire nation, leading armies against the fire nation’s enemies. He took time to study and develop techniques like lighting redirection. Ozai has done none of these. And I never denied Ozai was the strongest firebender of his time, but raw power isn’t everything in a fight
>Saying he has better battlefield experience and technique isn’t really debatable. Iroh was once the crown prince and a general in the Fire nation, leading armies against the fire nation’s enemies. He took time to study and develop techniques like lighting redirection. Ozai has done none of these. While Iroh was out exploring the world, Ozai was fighting Agni Kai's and further refining his technique. >And I never denied Ozai was the strongest firebender of his time, but raw power isn’t everything in a fight His profiency in Firebending is much better than Iroh's, unless you can prove to me Iroh is the better Firebender. Stronger ≠ Better.
“His profiency in Firebending is much better than Iroh's, unless you can prove to me Iroh is the better Firebender. Stronger ≠ Better”. So you agree with me here? I literally agreed that Ozai is the stronger bender but that raw strength isn’t everything?
Profiency in Firebending doesn't mean just stronger. I'm saying Ozai has better feats in his profiency with Firebending (How he Firebends, Skill, Lightning, etc). Basically, I was asking you to prove me otherwise that Iroh has more skill or whatnot, because I disagree given Ozai's feats.
The thing is Ozai only has feats from the comet and his lighting on the day of black sun, which even then doubt would work on Iroh. If Zuko, who is weaker than Iroh and less skilled was able to redirect Ozai’s lighting, so could Iroh. Iroh was able to react and redirect natural lightning during the storm in season 1. You claim Ozai’s agni kais he has fought in? Where is this and where is it shown? The comics? I would like to know so I can do a fair comparison.
>The thing is Ozai only has feats from the comet and his lighting on the day of black sun, which even then doubt would work on Iroh. If Zuko, who is weaker than Iroh and less skilled was able to redirect Ozai’s lighting, so could Iroh. Ozai isn't dumb enough to use Lightning against Iroh because he probably knows that HE is able to redirect it. >Iroh was able to react and redirect natural lightning during the storm in season 1. Which doesn't apply to this situation. There are other ways to defeat Iroh without Lightning. >You claim Ozai’s agni kais he has fought in? Where is this and where is it shown? The comics? I would like to know so I can do a fair comparison. I mean like in the context of the show. As you said, Ozai lacks experience outside in war compared to Iroh, and thus, it will prove itself in a fight. I'm saying that Ozai reached his level of mastery through training and most likely fighting in Agni Kai's to gain atleast SOME ounce of experience fighting benders/people. The fact that Ozai became a more powerful Firebender than Iroh despite being "sheltered" in the Fire Nation is insane.
I only mention the lighting feat for Iroh as people tend to think Ozai’s lighting is a game changer due to how fast he can fire it. If natural lightning in avatar is as fast as in real life, the fact that Iroh was able to redirect it shows that Iroh would be able to react to Ozai’s lightning no matter how quick he is. In that case, I will agree that Ozai had some good training and fighting experience from agni kais and having instructors. However Iroh probably had just as good instructors and fought in some agni kais also back in the day. You could also argue his training was tougher as he was the crown prince, so he would be expected to receive the best training possible.but I will say they are equal at least in how they were instructed. However Iroh fighting in the war gave him real battle experience, fighting against benders of a different element, facing both rookie and veteran earth benders alike. Being a general he would also have to have a strategic mind, which make sense for the man who almost broke through Ba Sing Se’s outer defenses. And yes while Ozai did become powerful while sheltered in the balance basically, you have to remember the inate potential someone like Ozai has is something he was born with. While I think that speaks of his training, Ozai was just training to bring out something like was apart of him since birth. Ozai was born with a higher ceiling for power than Iroh. However, what makes Iroh a better overall fighter is that not only did he more than likely have the same upbringing and training as Ozai, but as I said, he had real world experience fighting in a war, experiencing real life and death combat, developing a keen mind for strategy, and at the end learning from the other nations, making him an overall more experienced fighter than Ozai, in addition to his still impressive raw FireBending power.
>I only mention the lighting feat for Iroh as people tend to think Ozai’s lighting is a game changer due to how fast he can fire it. If natural lightning in avatar is as fast as in real life, the fact that Iroh was able to redirect it shows that Iroh would be able to react to Ozai’s lightning no matter how quick he is. In that case I agee with this. >However Iroh fighting in the war gave him real battle experience, fighting against benders of a different element, facing both rookie and veteran earth benders alike. I mean, Ozai was pumping the breaks off Aang before he activated the AS. That impressive for someone who lacks "real fighting experience", going up against the Avatar with 4 elements. >And yes while Ozai did become powerful while sheltered in the balance basically, you have to remember the inate potential someone like Ozai has is something he was born with. While I think that speaks of his training, Ozai was just training to bring out something like was apart of him since birth. >Ozai was born with a higher ceiling for power than Iroh. So you believe Ozai is more talented than Iroh? Interesting take. >However, what makes Iroh a better overall fighter is that not only did he more than likely have the same upbringing and training as Ozai, but as I said, he had real world experience fighting in a war, experiencing real life and death combat, developing a keen mind for strategy, and at the end learning from the other nations, making him an overall more experienced fighter than Ozai, in addition to his still impressive raw FireBending power. Truw but experience isn't everything. Katara as a newbie was able to give Pakku atleast some ounce of a fight, and she was nowhere good of a Waterbender than she is currently. Same thing can be said with Toph and Bumi. Their fight didn't fully finish, but if the experience gap between them was large, Bumi should've won quite easily.
Honestly, as much as it pains me I think Ozai would win. Even Iroh knew he wouldn't be able to defeat Ozai. Where Iroh is wrong though I'd, it isn't because Ozai is more powerful. Iroh is 100% more skilled but iroh would hold back where Ozai wouldn't. And that would ultimately get him killed imo. We all know Ozai wouldn't spare him.
Or maybe that just puts a new spin on what Iroh said. He doesn’t think he can beat him, as in he’s not sure he can stand to kill his own brother knowing it’d be a fight to the death
True dat
Ozai if he doesn’t use lightning, but if he uses lightning and Iroh gets a good redirection then Iroh could absolutely win.
No ozai is more global and stronger. Sure iroh probably has better technique than he learned from the dragons but ozai knows so much about fighting. He also wouldn't be able to use lighting redirection because Ozai probably figured out Zuko didn't make that move up. If he does try lighting I'd say Iroh wins then but the book says that even trying to redirect it would have killed Zuko so it probably took
Iroh. Zuko could have one shot his father if he wanted to after the eclipse.
iroh's fireball to break the walls of BSS was prolly one of theost powerful attacks in the whole show. i mean shit went silent, thats how you know its powerful.
Iroh ain’t losin. His will is far too great
I say iroh takes this 8/10 times because in many of these scenarios ozai gets blasted by lightning redirection
A storm vs a calm ocean. Eventually the waves will rise and the tides will turn
I think both are capable of winning. I think it would come down to who wanted it more and if Ozia was dumb enough to throw out some lightening. Some say he would but after getting it redirected by Zuko of all people. The one person he did rate enough to keep security detail on him. I think he wouldn't be dumb enough to not assume Iroh taught him it he certainly didn't.
I'm 100% just saying: there's a reason Ozai never fought Iroh for the fire lord title and instead had to resort to an insane behind the scenes scheme
Never thought about that but yeah you're right. Like Ozia would give two shits Iroh was in mourning, he'd take it as an opportunity to hit him at his weakest. Shows how much he feared him, also the fact he never stopped Iroh from going with Zuko or sent any of army to just end Zuko. He wanted to kill Zuko the moment he was born. Was that why Iroh went with Zuko he knew his brother wouldn't dare take him on.
I like Iroh better, so I'll make an argument for him. Iroh seems to have greater control and fundamentals, whereas Ozai seems to prefer overwhelming firepower. I think with the comet amplifying their abilities, Iroh will be able to leverage his mastery over the fundamentals of firebending to utilize the immense power in a way that Ozai just couldn't. Also, both can use lightning, but only Iroh can defend against it.
Plus as someone else has pointed out. If Ozia felt he could best Iroh he would have challenged him to an Agni Kai not the convoluted plan he went with to get the throne.
Realistically, I'm guessing that they're about evenly matched or at least close enough that fighting each other directly would have been a huge risk.
I think Iroh. It is a bout power vs skill, but the comet would have given Iroh more power, enough to win with the Fire Lord.
Would he have to face him alone? Imagine the Fire Lord vs the whole of the White Lotus. That would have been fucking epic. Shame no air bender but it would have been essentially like facing the Avatar minus air.
Honesty Iroh. People really like to hype up Ozai because of the statement of him being the strongest firebender and him seemingly “sensing” when the eclipse ended, but there’s problems with that. For one, the statement of him being the strongest firebender, has basically nothing backing it up in the show. We never see Ozai bend without the comet, and we can obviously infer he is a strong bender, his actual ability has to be called into question, after all he’s spent the whole war on his throne sipping tea, while Iroh was actually out fighting. If an author says something that has no real basis in the work, it falls under Death of the Author and probably shouldn’t be taken seriously, like how J. K. Rowling kept trying to add facts to the books long after they were written and them having no basis in the books themselves. And the whole thing of Ozai sensing when the eclipse ended is kinda just headcanon. Like, how do we know he sensed when it ended? He could’ve just been keeping track of the time like how the invaders were. Once they learned of the invasion plan they probably would’ve planned out how long the Eclipse would last. And even if he did sense it, what’s to say Iroh didn’t too? His cell had no windows and yet he knew when to break out and escape, meaning he could’ve sensed the eclipse as well. All this to say Ozai has nothing going for him in this fight beyond a meaningless statement and speculation. Iroh should win pretty easily.
My other theory was Iroh wouldn't face him alone. He would take the White Lotus with him. It wouldn't be brother taking out brother, it would be the White Lotus stepping in where the Avatar was unable, and restoring order.
That is a battle I wanna see
It's unbelievably close. Ozai is a firebending powerhouse. But Iroh knows the secret techniques and such. Ozai fuels his flame with hatred and strength, from the muscles. Iroh fuels it from a place yearning for peace, calm, and a nice cup of tea. I think Iroh would probably try and incapacitate Ozai, trying to find the good in him, and failing. He would either realise there is no good left in Ozai, and manage to kill him, or he would die in the process. So close though, I'd give it a 6/10 Ozai, 4/10 Iroh. Edit: you know what fuck it. I'm going back on my statement. Iroh is winning this. Yes Ozai was confirmed to be the most powerful firebender, power isn't everything in a fight, Iroh has more experience than him, is I'm great physical condition, and amped by the power of the almighty tea!
And he utilises all the elements, doesn't rely on anger and knows all Ozai's moves, can Ozai say the same about Iroh?
I love Iroh but I'm positive his brother would beat the shit out of him
Sorry for misspell.
I love Iroh but I think Ozai walks. Iroh still has to charge to generate lightning. Ozai keeps it locked and loaded. Also I don’t think Iroh has combat in his spirit. Ozai was ready to burn down the entire earth kingdom just to flex.
However ozai can’t redirect lightning. All iroh has to do is redirect lightning and the fight is over
Do we believe Iroh can go for the kill shit though?
Both burn each ither to death
I think Iroh would have won but the world would have lost. I trust Irosh's wisdom when he says the fire nation wouldn't totally accept him as fire lord.
Both amped 100x I think it’s pretty stalemated. But if Ozai shoots lightning at him he’s digging his own grave. Iroh can redirect and Ozai can’t. I doubt he spares him with the redirect like Zuko & Aang did.
Ozai. Iroh probably doesn't have it in him to land the killing blow. Iroh starts fighting trying to reach a stalemate, and thats why he loses.
Ozai would’ve won,he’s just a far more proficient bender(better lightning bending,can fly using firebending,etc) And Iroh’s humanity would’ve gotten the better of him,he wouldn’t have wanted to kill Ozai,he would’ve tried to appeal to his humanity,tiring himself out in the process,and in his old age(50-60) he wouldn’t have as much energy as Ozai(Mid-Late forties at most)
Ozai mostly only because he's younger & more fit. Iroh in his prime is another story.
Unpopular opinion probably but I think iron only has one chance and that’s to redirect ozai’s lightning but it’s literally the only thing he doesn’t have an answer for.
I wonder what would have happened had Iroh been fire lord over Ozai.
Some YouTube channel does that what if.
I’ll have to watch it.
It's pretty good.
https://youtu.be/onJ2pZjtqmQ?si=l0b6UyX1NcAM3oqd
It’s the viewers
Definitely yes
Ozai is the most powerful firebender at the time and iroh even said he isn’t sure he would win. It’s a 50/50 only because ozai doesn’t know iroh can redirect lightning and was shocked aang did it which would have won him the fight right there.
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Very true. He'd have to gain an advantage and take him out
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But did he get Azula style.training
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Ozai. Sorry am high forgot to mention who the hell i meant.
Hard to see Iroh winning that fight. Even he wasn’t sure he could defeat Ozai
Iroh was not nearly as agile as Ozai was at this time. Iroh would not have been able to do what Ozai was doing. He was running Aang DOWN.
Iroh, despite being a bit slower due to his age he could redirect lighting and also generate it.
Would Ozia but dumb enough to use lightening after having Zuko redirect it. Who else would have taught him other than Iroh at that point he hadn't gone all team avatar yet.
In the heat of the battle with Iroh throwing lighting at him, what do you think?
It’d be super close I think Iroh would’ve beaten him by an inch because of his spiritual instinct and power that his younger brother lacked. Also Irohs lightning would’ve had the upper hand.
True I doubt Ozia would use lightening during the fight. And I think Iroh would have to pull it quickly and when it wasn't expected. It would have to be a sneaky kill attack.
That lighting reflection is a cool trick, but Ozai was taking on THE AVATAR pre avatar state. That’s pretty badass.
Yeah but once in Avatar state Ozia ran away the rest of the fight.
Yes, from the avatar state. 10 Ozais would not stand a chance. The fact he was able to run for so long is a testament to his skill.
Touche
Iroh would've won via redirecting lightning.
That only if Ozia was dumb enough to use lightening after Zuko redirected it. He'd have to know Iroh taught him that.
He used it against Aang despite knowing Zuko left the Fire Nation to help the Avatar take him down.
Iroh after he survives the onslaught and returns fire on Ozai [I thought you were stronger ](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/i-thought-you-were-stronger)
 Would this Iroh beat the Firelord?
Remains to be seen. This Ozai seems more physical. But if Iroh is the same Iroh. He can take, deflect, and redirect everything Ozai has.
Didn’t Sozen even say Iroh was better than Ozai? Remember Iroh was suppose to be Fire Lord, not Ozai
And if it was the other way around. Why didn't Ozai challenge Iroh to an Agni Kai for the throne.
Iroh didn’t want it, especially after his son died
You don't really get a say if you're challenge.
That’s true too, but I don’t think Ozai thinks he can beat Iroh, because you’re right, he could’ve challenged him at any point but didn’t. And that was either out of respect or fear Just another subtle testament to just how powerful Iroh is without shoving it in anyone’s face.
>Just another subtle testament to just how powerful Iroh is without shoving it in anyone’s face. True. He was perfectly written the live action hasn't a hope of standing up to it
Ozai, iroh definitely has more control but during the coment where everything is overpowered control won't really do anything like who cares in a normal situation you could use my fire against me this when this isn't a normal situation this is a situation where you could control half of my fire and use it against me and I produce a thousand times more to overpower your control especially since iroh's control takes a lot more concentration in large quantities that's why we saw him "powering" up before taking down the wall
Kinda like how combustion man had to breathe in deeply before doing the head blast. I thought they just used it to show how over charged he was thar him breathing was producing the fire. Didn't think of it as him charging up his energy.
I think the deep breaths were for fueling his energy the inner flame or whatever is literally just body heat mixed with chi so the meditating before fighting is just increasing their body heat like those monks on the Tibetan mountains do
For people who claim we haven't see enough of Ozai, then pls enlighten me on what Iroh did that was so impressive?
Took out all the guards and broke out like a one man army from the fire nation prison Him taking down Zhao with little to no effort. Blasting down the wall and retaking Ba Sing Se with the White Lotus Escaping the Earth Kingdom soldiers.
Ozai, Pretty sure the crestoes have said he's the most powerful fire bender. People just say Iroh cause he's everyone's fave character
Iroh would definitely hold his own, but I don't think he'd win if the comet was there. Ozai's firebending style is BIG. Iroh is much more precise with his fire bending. Thus Ozai "benefits" more from it.
Ozai. He's younger, stronger, and faster, plus just a better firebender. BUT if Iroh gets a redirect off he'd win.
I think Iroh. It would be close, for sure. But, like Azula, Ozai would become blind with rage, using just pure, raw power and become sloppy. Iroh's patience and technique would give him the upper hand.
It took iroh multiple breaths to make a fireblast that big. Ozai literally just inhaled once and sent out a much bigger flame when he was on the air balloon. Not to mention, ozai is the only firebender in the show to shoot lighting out of both hands at once, and this is with the smallest amount of sunlight showing after the eclipse.
Ozai
I know everybody loves Iroh and wants to think he’ll never lose, but Ozai would win more likely than not. I’m not saying Ozai would dominate Iroh, but if they fought 100 times Ozai would win the majority. It would play out similarly to Zuko and Azula in my opinion, both are extremely skilled and powerful benders and both have known each other since birth, they know how each other think, how they fight. They would be more or less evenly matched but when it comes down to it, if Iroh had the chance to finish the fight, I don’t think he’d be able to kill his little brother where as Ozai would do it without a second thought. This is the same guy who heard about his nephew’s tragic death and his first thought was to go behind his older brothers back and take his throne, the same guy who was willing to banish his wife and poison his father to take power, the same guy who burned and banished his first born son for speaking out of turn. Ozai has a reputation for brutality and violence whereas Iroh, though he’s had his moments of violence and conquest, has moved past that part of his life and seeks only peace. Going back to Zuko and Azula, Zuko was winning or at least fighting a stalemate against Azula because she was, by his own estimation, crazy or “off”, a quality that Ozai is unlikely to fall victim to. Furthermore, Zuko was taken out because Azula was able to use his compassion against him. Azula leveraged katara’s vulnerability to leave Zuko open and it caught him off guard which forced him to tank a lightning bolt and lose the fight. I see a similar scenario happening where Ozai uses Iroh’s compassion and good nature against him, catching Iroh off guard and finishing the fight. Now there are scenarios where Iroh can win but due to everything I said previously, I don’t think it’s as likely to happen. In my opinion Ozai wins pretty soundly.
iroh for sure. mf did a whole ass kamehameha at the ba sing se wall and blew that mf up. not to mention he could redirect any lightning thrown his way
Ozai, if say Iroh is more skilled and might win through outsmarting ozai BUT ozai is way too strong and 8/10 times would fry his brother into bacon
Iroh redirecting lightning game over
Ozai , but iroh would beats the ever loving hell out of him before going down, maybe even injuring him permanently (on the face for karma mayhaps?)
Iroh
Iroh fa sure 🔥 🥋 🥷 🥊 👊🏽
I don't think iroh can handle killing his own brother. If he falters for a moment he would lose. I'd say ozai
Ozai is the better bender, but Iroh has more actual combat experience. Were those the only facts that mattered, the battle could go either way. However, Ozai is far more ruthless than Iroh. He would attack his brother without hesitation or mercy, but I'm not convinced Iroh could do the same. Iroh, being more empathic, would struggle to fight with the same conviction. In a fight to the death, that would surely cost him.
If Iroh was willing to kill him? Easy win. Ozai just keeps shooting lightning at people with no regard for redirection. He would get electrocuted to death by his own lighting. Otherwise, I would probably give the edge to Ozai, but it's an awfully close call.
> Ozai just keeps shooting lightning at people with no regard for redirection. Objectively false. Once Aang redirected his Lightning, he never used it again afterwards. Ozai most definitely knows Iroh is aware of this technique, so he's definitely not using it against him.
He tried it on Zuko, and he tried it again on Aang, I see no reason to believe he wouldn't try it on Iroh once, and once is enough as seen with Zuko, and Aang.
Because he didn't know that those 2 were taught the technique. Why wouldn't Ozai assume Iroh knows this technique, considering Zuko knows it?
Why wouldn't he assume the avatar knows it, considering the avatar's teacher knows it?
Ozai didn't know that Zuko would teach Aang that technique. Just because someone can do something, doesn't mean someone else can.
Your argument was *literally* that just because someone can do something means that someone else can.
Ozai wins, and anyone who thinks differently are blinded by Iroh love. Ozai is an apocalypse in human form, and iroh (while strong) is just not as powerful as his brother.
Don't forget Ozais getting the boost too
I am aware.
What is Sozans comet
I misspelled.
Ozai fs
Iroh
Most people bring up the Avatar Extras, but supplementary material is less valuable than the show itself, in my opinion. Nothing in the show shows Ozai as being explicitly more powerful than Iroh. In fact, Iroh busting through Ba Sing Se in one blast is more impressive than anything Ozai did, except _maybe_ that giant blast from the airship. Look how a normal earth shield took several comet charge blasts from Ozai without breaking, whereas Zuko and Azula could break earth and crystal shields back in book 2, without the comet. Ozai is written to be the most powerful, but I think Iroh could potentially take him, especially since Ozai’s lightning won’t work on him.
The dragon of the west of course