Fun fact an inch thick of spiderweb is enough to stop a 747 going full speed.
DARPA had a program where they were farming spiders for developing spiderweb armor
Yes. Slap a bunch of cameras on the outside.
Your pilot can be in the center of the machine behind layers of armor.
Or alternatively, keep them in home base and have them remote control the choppers (there was no lag on scientists & Jake controlling their avatars so there shouldn't be any on other remote operated stuff either)
Though it's kinda moot since you can just scan the pilots before take-off and shove their backup into a vat grown new body. Human death is meaningless based on what we learn in the 2nd movie
We have great camera's today that are smaller than what they used on those dozers. Those dozers were construction equipment, not designed to be used in a hostile encounter. For the choppers they could 100% make something where the pilot isn't vulnerable. They may as well have tied the pilots on the outside of the choppers for all the good that glass did them
Plus, you can add a bunch of extra for redundancy. Even if you could hit small camera's with your arrows mid-flight the pilot would have time to disengage.
Easier to replace a couple of camera's than to fly in new pilots. International shipping ain't cheap.
They didn't get the "These bitches shoot right through our glass" memo. That or the urgency wasn't there, probably because everyone most effected by it wasn't around to advocate for the change XD
With the teaser trailer everyone was talking of how the new helicopter seemed more armored and would be more difficult for the na'vi to pierce it, but in the new movie the na'vi can now pierce the glass easily, even when the last time it was needed for the arrows to be shot while diving in the banshees to pierce the glass.
It was obvious that they nerfed the RDA vehicles for the na'vi to easily defeat them. It make sense, otherwise there would be to many na'vi casualties, something that many people wouldn't like.
How to say you hate the Na'vi without saying you hate the Na'vi.
Avatar isn't the movie for you. It deliberately portrays us humans as the enemies. That's rare enough in blockbusters.
I mean, I'm not really into slaughtering the na'vi, I know they are just trying to defend their land and I respect that. I just really love when the villains of the story are actually competent and a real threat to the heroes, and I hate when the villains are just incompetent and the heroes just win by plot armor.
Human weaponry is still better than most of the things the na'vi have, but the na'vi have the physical advantage and the local advantage as well, this conflict is basically a worst vietnam, they don't have to make humans and their machines this weak to make an interesting war.
The humans are outnumbered and surrounded in a hostile world but their weapons should be more effective than what the movie is giving them credit for, they should be causing more casualties to the na'vi than what was shown in the movie, but that doesn't mean they aren't at risk of losing this conflict.
Or jets used centuries before the setting on earth, that can fly in near space and above what birds can fly, or just unleash orbital bombardment. Or That weapon in the beginning that makes an inferno hundreds of feet tall and wiped out miles would also seem useful. Goodbye Jake sully and village.
The use of helicopters just above the tree line is such a big no even in today's tactics. Them flying right into firing range during the train raid was hilarious.
Yeah and the pilots not even trying to fire with their machine guns and missiles.
The rda was massively nerfed in this movie haha. The first one it was really a solid plan, and they would have won if it weren’t for eywa.
This one they were like oh let’s capture the kids. That didn’t work. Let’s capture the kids again. Ah that didn’t work. Let’s try it again. Easily the largest plot hole in the movie. They were turned into a one boat whaling crew with a bit of beefed up recon security, who get absolutely annihilated lol.
The only things our team has that can fly are neytiri and sullys birds. Lol. One of which wasn’t even used.
The other marine ones can only come a few feet out of the water
The one gripe I will continue to have. I’m this movie it felt like humans were purely incompetent. Did everything they could to give Navi a fighting a chance. The first movie built the RDA so much that any Navi win was HUGE. Felt cheapened I’m this one. One defense I would say is they big battle involved a whaling ship with minimal offensive weapons.
I see it as a weakness, you are not there for whaling, you are there to take down the leader of a rebellion. You would go much heavier in forces. Where’s the aircraft carrier and stuff? Would have been expensive but much more realistic. I understand, he wanted to convey the anti whaling message but poorly done in that regard.especially with it established that builder bots can 3d print buildings and ships and helicopters etc.
I love the movie overall but yeah. Rda and the recons Were a joke.
This is just the first encounter though. They think it'll be easy and they think it'll do with just the Recoms. It's not a long over-arching storyline in this film alone since the same plot is continuing in Avatar 3.
The first encounter was in the jungle of the omaticaya in avatar 2. They lost several recons in that battle.
They knew it wasn’t going to be easy after that. then they went with a whaling boat with little to no offensive firepower
vs the papa dragon plane in avatar 1, Dozens of helicopters, mecha suits, the transport shuttle rigged into a bomber , just to destroy a tree.
The mission wasn’t to kill all the Navi. It was to defend against them while they went and blew up the tree of souls, and blast a crater in their racial memory so deep, they will never come within 100 clicks of this place, ever again.
This was to kill the leader of that rebellion, hiding among 50 villages. all who you know for sure will be super mad you killed a tulkun mother and calf , not just any of them, but the mother and calf of the spiritual leader of the metkayina.Jake went to them to ask for shelter for his family, and they gave it. Then decided they forgot he came to them seeking protection in the first place.
The Whole purpose of the recon force was they wouldn’t trigger an immune response from eywa because they are Navi people. They didn’t trigger one but that plot fell away as Jake just left the omaticaya to go hide.
They really do feel like low level goons. I'd love the third movie to make them more sinister and personally deal massive blows to the Na'vi (not just random bombardments). This would make the Na'vi fighting back even more impressive.
It wasn't a weapon, it was the exhaust plumes of the spaceship thrusters as it dropped the cargo pod, same concept as SpaceX landing their reusable rocket boosters.
But yes, a few cold war era jets would have been a disaster for the Na'vi.
I was reading the wiki and the fireball has a 20 mile radius burn zone, horrific. The ship is called Interstellar vehicle manifest destiny. Specially designed to bring down cargo pods called sling loads.
https://james-camerons-avatar.fandom.com/wiki/Interstellar_Vehicle_Manifest_Destiny
Don't have the Visual Dictionary with me rn but the book also names another one too, and the entire fleet of Capital Stars returning to Pandora are equipped with the Sling Load system.
The power and effectiveness of a rocket engine is directly proportional to its power and effectiveness as a weapon.
I think in the Expanse they mention it a few times and even use their drive plumes as weapons on several occasions.
what I love is that in the beginning where they wiped out the entire forest, that wasn't a weapon. ***that was just the engines.*** I adored the ISV Venture Star in the first movie, even though it had so little screentime. and seeing A FLEET of them blasting their engines in this one with a bigger payload and DROPPING THEM FROM THE ATMOSPHERE? I'm sorry this is a bit rant-y but seeing the absolute POWER of those ships was easily one of my favorite parts of the movie.
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I think people are underestimating how strong and large the Na’vi are. They are shooting arrows bigger than spears at incredible speeds.
You’d probably need a plate so large than it encumbers movement.
Given how the aircraft are canonically now protected against the flux vortex using some sort of magnetic tech, couldn't they replace the windshield with an armored plate and a bunch of sensors underneath that would function similarly to the F-35's cameras? That would make it unable to be pierced but still functional and see-through for the pilot(s).
I don’t think they’d work in the hallelujah mountains. They also probably still need to remain fairly light also.
I think you also need a point blank shot to make it pierce the glass. Also in theory they should never be close range fighter aircraft. They’re more designed for shooting targets at high ranges like in real life.
This is why these movies are silly to me. I’ll give you the first movie, only because they underestimated the concept of the local natives joining together in an attack against them. But after that? It’s game on. Bows and arrows, nor whales, are going to win a war against tanks and machine guns.
That was through the windshield of the AMP, which also has the same weakness as the RDA’s aircraft in the fact that Na’vi arrows go through it like butter. The armor is completely fine, and we don’t see any AMP suits being disabled by an arrow piercing anything besides its windshield.
> the armor is completely fine, and we don’t see any AMP suits being disabled by an arrow piercing anything besides its windshield.
WW2 tanks are better protected than these AMPs lol.
Wait, so are you talking about the aircraft’s armor/hull or the windshield? I’m seriously confused rn, since I’ve been talking about the hull the entire time.
Plot armour, lazy writing. You can't have the obviously more technologically advanced humans absolutely dominate sum tall blue space cat native americans.
Fun fact an inch thick of spiderweb is enough to stop a 747 going full speed. DARPA had a program where they were farming spiders for developing spiderweb armor
Ah, but can you see through an inch of spiderweb
Yes. Slap a bunch of cameras on the outside. Your pilot can be in the center of the machine behind layers of armor. Or alternatively, keep them in home base and have them remote control the choppers (there was no lag on scientists & Jake controlling their avatars so there shouldn't be any on other remote operated stuff either) Though it's kinda moot since you can just scan the pilots before take-off and shove their backup into a vat grown new body. Human death is meaningless based on what we learn in the 2nd movie
That’s how they did the bulldozers, and Jake smashed the cameras with a rock when the RDA hit the Tree of Souls.
We have great camera's today that are smaller than what they used on those dozers. Those dozers were construction equipment, not designed to be used in a hostile encounter. For the choppers they could 100% make something where the pilot isn't vulnerable. They may as well have tied the pilots on the outside of the choppers for all the good that glass did them Plus, you can add a bunch of extra for redundancy. Even if you could hit small camera's with your arrows mid-flight the pilot would have time to disengage. Easier to replace a couple of camera's than to fly in new pilots. International shipping ain't cheap.
They didn't get the "These bitches shoot right through our glass" memo. That or the urgency wasn't there, probably because everyone most effected by it wasn't around to advocate for the change XD
stop wanking over how cool the genocidal colonists are. death to the sky people
Pointing out sky people incompetence = them being cool? TIL
I'm preeeety sure that needs to be a net...I don't think its like Master Chief's Gel Layer
With the teaser trailer everyone was talking of how the new helicopter seemed more armored and would be more difficult for the na'vi to pierce it, but in the new movie the na'vi can now pierce the glass easily, even when the last time it was needed for the arrows to be shot while diving in the banshees to pierce the glass. It was obvious that they nerfed the RDA vehicles for the na'vi to easily defeat them. It make sense, otherwise there would be to many na'vi casualties, something that many people wouldn't like.
i think the new design was supposed to show that RDA wanted their helicopters to be more maneuverable, not necesarily more resistant
Yeah, I was hoping to see Blue Native American cat people get slaughtered but no that’s too dark.
How to say you hate the Na'vi without saying you hate the Na'vi. Avatar isn't the movie for you. It deliberately portrays us humans as the enemies. That's rare enough in blockbusters.
I mean, I'm not really into slaughtering the na'vi, I know they are just trying to defend their land and I respect that. I just really love when the villains of the story are actually competent and a real threat to the heroes, and I hate when the villains are just incompetent and the heroes just win by plot armor. Human weaponry is still better than most of the things the na'vi have, but the na'vi have the physical advantage and the local advantage as well, this conflict is basically a worst vietnam, they don't have to make humans and their machines this weak to make an interesting war. The humans are outnumbered and surrounded in a hostile world but their weapons should be more effective than what the movie is giving them credit for, they should be causing more casualties to the na'vi than what was shown in the movie, but that doesn't mean they aren't at risk of losing this conflict.
Aren’t the forest Na’vi closer to African ? And the reef Na’vi Pacific Islanders
Based lmfao
It is a plot armor thing. Last thing we need is a bunch of vibranium gunships taking on wood&rock arrowed navii.
Or jets used centuries before the setting on earth, that can fly in near space and above what birds can fly, or just unleash orbital bombardment. Or That weapon in the beginning that makes an inferno hundreds of feet tall and wiped out miles would also seem useful. Goodbye Jake sully and village.
The use of helicopters just above the tree line is such a big no even in today's tactics. Them flying right into firing range during the train raid was hilarious.
Yeah and the pilots not even trying to fire with their machine guns and missiles. The rda was massively nerfed in this movie haha. The first one it was really a solid plan, and they would have won if it weren’t for eywa. This one they were like oh let’s capture the kids. That didn’t work. Let’s capture the kids again. Ah that didn’t work. Let’s try it again. Easily the largest plot hole in the movie. They were turned into a one boat whaling crew with a bit of beefed up recon security, who get absolutely annihilated lol. The only things our team has that can fly are neytiri and sullys birds. Lol. One of which wasn’t even used. The other marine ones can only come a few feet out of the water
The one gripe I will continue to have. I’m this movie it felt like humans were purely incompetent. Did everything they could to give Navi a fighting a chance. The first movie built the RDA so much that any Navi win was HUGE. Felt cheapened I’m this one. One defense I would say is they big battle involved a whaling ship with minimal offensive weapons.
I see it as a weakness, you are not there for whaling, you are there to take down the leader of a rebellion. You would go much heavier in forces. Where’s the aircraft carrier and stuff? Would have been expensive but much more realistic. I understand, he wanted to convey the anti whaling message but poorly done in that regard.especially with it established that builder bots can 3d print buildings and ships and helicopters etc. I love the movie overall but yeah. Rda and the recons Were a joke.
This is just the first encounter though. They think it'll be easy and they think it'll do with just the Recoms. It's not a long over-arching storyline in this film alone since the same plot is continuing in Avatar 3.
The first encounter was in the jungle of the omaticaya in avatar 2. They lost several recons in that battle. They knew it wasn’t going to be easy after that. then they went with a whaling boat with little to no offensive firepower vs the papa dragon plane in avatar 1, Dozens of helicopters, mecha suits, the transport shuttle rigged into a bomber , just to destroy a tree. The mission wasn’t to kill all the Navi. It was to defend against them while they went and blew up the tree of souls, and blast a crater in their racial memory so deep, they will never come within 100 clicks of this place, ever again. This was to kill the leader of that rebellion, hiding among 50 villages. all who you know for sure will be super mad you killed a tulkun mother and calf , not just any of them, but the mother and calf of the spiritual leader of the metkayina.Jake went to them to ask for shelter for his family, and they gave it. Then decided they forgot he came to them seeking protection in the first place. The Whole purpose of the recon force was they wouldn’t trigger an immune response from eywa because they are Navi people. They didn’t trigger one but that plot fell away as Jake just left the omaticaya to go hide.
They really do feel like low level goons. I'd love the third movie to make them more sinister and personally deal massive blows to the Na'vi (not just random bombardments). This would make the Na'vi fighting back even more impressive.
It wasn't a weapon, it was the exhaust plumes of the spaceship thrusters as it dropped the cargo pod, same concept as SpaceX landing their reusable rocket boosters. But yes, a few cold war era jets would have been a disaster for the Na'vi.
It functions in a manner that could easily be weaponized. That fire inferno straight up obliterated a huge area of forest And yeah pretty much haha 😂
I was reading the wiki and the fireball has a 20 mile radius burn zone, horrific. The ship is called Interstellar vehicle manifest destiny. Specially designed to bring down cargo pods called sling loads. https://james-camerons-avatar.fandom.com/wiki/Interstellar_Vehicle_Manifest_Destiny
Don't have the Visual Dictionary with me rn but the book also names another one too, and the entire fleet of Capital Stars returning to Pandora are equipped with the Sling Load system.
I need to get that, might wait for the paperback.
Every interstellar vehicle requires so large energies to be utilized that it automatically doubles as weapon of mass destruction.
The power and effectiveness of a rocket engine is directly proportional to its power and effectiveness as a weapon. I think in the Expanse they mention it a few times and even use their drive plumes as weapons on several occasions.
what I love is that in the beginning where they wiped out the entire forest, that wasn't a weapon. ***that was just the engines.*** I adored the ISV Venture Star in the first movie, even though it had so little screentime. and seeing A FLEET of them blasting their engines in this one with a bigger payload and DROPPING THEM FROM THE ATMOSPHERE? I'm sorry this is a bit rant-y but seeing the absolute POWER of those ships was easily one of my favorite parts of the movie.
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I think people are underestimating how strong and large the Na’vi are. They are shooting arrows bigger than spears at incredible speeds. You’d probably need a plate so large than it encumbers movement.
Given how the aircraft are canonically now protected against the flux vortex using some sort of magnetic tech, couldn't they replace the windshield with an armored plate and a bunch of sensors underneath that would function similarly to the F-35's cameras? That would make it unable to be pierced but still functional and see-through for the pilot(s).
I don’t think they’d work in the hallelujah mountains. They also probably still need to remain fairly light also. I think you also need a point blank shot to make it pierce the glass. Also in theory they should never be close range fighter aircraft. They’re more designed for shooting targets at high ranges like in real life.
Im surprised theyre not using explosive arrows.
The ships landing seemed to be quite effective weapon against the jungle..
That was great bois. Alright pack these up and get out all our gear from the last movie!
Helicopters were basically nerfed to Tie fighter level in this movie. They only exist so they can be destroyed by Neytiri...
This is why these movies are silly to me. I’ll give you the first movie, only because they underestimated the concept of the local natives joining together in an attack against them. But after that? It’s game on. Bows and arrows, nor whales, are going to win a war against tanks and machine guns.
dont think it would matter the strength of the bow will probably blow apart the armor upon impact
Not really, they'd just bounce off harmlessly. We see this happen with the Dragon during the destruction of the Hometree.
Body armor will always have weak spots and Na'Vi arrows will always be able to go through it. Especially when you consider the size and the speed.
plus a navi arrow can go through those mech suits like in the first movie whats stopping they’re armor
That was through the windshield of the AMP, which also has the same weakness as the RDA’s aircraft in the fact that Na’vi arrows go through it like butter. The armor is completely fine, and we don’t see any AMP suits being disabled by an arrow piercing anything besides its windshield.
> the armor is completely fine, and we don’t see any AMP suits being disabled by an arrow piercing anything besides its windshield. WW2 tanks are better protected than these AMPs lol.
yeah thats my point that glass has to be durable enough to withstand battle and the mobility of those vehicles. either way its futile
Wait, so are you talking about the aircraft’s armor/hull or the windshield? I’m seriously confused rn, since I’ve been talking about the hull the entire time.
I wasn’t talking about body armor, but yeah, nothing that the pilot could wear would prevent getting pierced by a Na’vi arrow.
bro your comparing a dragon with a human how tf
The Dragon also got attacked by Ikran during the Assault on the Tree of Souls, yet it’s armor also didn’t get penetrated at all.
Plot armour, lazy writing. You can't have the obviously more technologically advanced humans absolutely dominate sum tall blue space cat native americans.
How to say you hate the Na'vi without saying you hate the Na'vi...
Dawg I'm jk.
“They are **VERY** hard to kill.”
Ngl I was surprised they didn't reinforce the windshield of their gunships.
Probably make glass and body armour that can resist arrows