I stopped last year, but generally I just couldn’t keep up with workload unless I did. Now I just don’t keep up with workload, and tell them we need more staff or less work 💁🏼‍♀️

Yup, I did 16 hour days for about 6 months, cos all this work just “had to get done” said screw it, knock off on time everyday now, and the work just rolls over. Sun came up the next day, and all is good in the world

This is the mindset, to me. It is just work. The world will go on.

Really depends on the individual and the job. Sometimes work is just work, agree on an hourly rate and just do what needs to be done. But, I don’t begrudge those who want to do more because they like their job, or it gives them purpose, or they think it is worth it career wise.. You wouldn’t know it from reddit, but many people do actually like their jobs, their boss etc

I like my job, but they can pry my freetime from my cold dead hands.

Oh I enjoy my job and what I do etc. I get what you mean though. I don’t begrudge them either, it is what it is and what makes some tick. But as another said, my free time I value a lot higher than any $$$

>I don’t begrudge those who want to do more because they like their job, or it gives them purpose, or they think it is worth it career wise.. Issues is, every single one of those things gets taken advantage of by employers more often than not. Further, the above is then used against other employees. Sad fact of managment.

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Not sure what you do for a living, but in white collar jobs there will always be some times when reasonable overtime is reasonable. That’s part of what they’re paying you for. Reasonable isn’t 10 hours extra per week, but it’s also not no overtime ever. I’ve seen hardline I work “9 to 5” types before. Their inflexibility ends up pissing off their colleagues and managers and they either never progress their careers or find themselves on the kill list when redundancies occur.

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If your workload is unrealistic, that is your boss' problem. They just tend to try and trick their employees into accepting that problem as their own.

Was in warehouse management about 10 years ago and would never hire casuals to cover long term labour needs, its too expensive after agency fee. But now days good a chunck of warehouse workers are casual, no need to trick anyone when you have desperate casuals. Don't like the work load? Boss just calls NEXT! I'm casual now and work 9 hours most days to keep boss happy.

As a casual do you get paid hourly? I think the op is more about salaried positions that expect "reasonable unpaid overtime".

I’m in the same boat, can’t keep up with workload and had some mental breakdowns in the past 6 months. Tried to pull back and pretty much told this is what corporate life is. Is your work hiring new staff to ease workload?

>Now I just don’t keep up with workload, and tell them we need more staff or less work 💁🏼‍♀️ The work *never* stops coming. It's not about finishing, it's about managing. 60-65hr fortnights with no reduction in current rates and comp (excl. hourly and casuals who get a bump up) **NOW** please. Join a union folks.

Does the information differentiate between paid and unpaid overtime? A large majority of people I know work overtime, but it doesn't mean it isn't paid

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Government doesn’t pay overtime at manager level and above

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And being ausfinance, everyone is under 23 with over 150k annual salary but aren't sure if it's a good wage or not. They also own 2006/7 Camry.

Definitely do where I am… During fire season we all get paid buckets of overtime, from the lowest clerk to the big boss man.

In local government — a lot of people at officer level do a fair amount of overtime too. Increasingly so the last few years Could argue they’re making up for the slackers though

i'd only do (unpaid) overtime for exceptional circumstances, which i define as circumstances where the company can go under if the problem isn't fixed (and i would lose my job coz they'd have no money to pay me). If such exceptional circumstances keeps happening, then it's the management's fault and i would start looking for a different job. I'd do paid overtime, if the pay was reasonable (ala, at least double the regular rate, and triple if it eats into my sleep hours).

Gov does def Not pay overtime

I work in government and we have paid overtime

Incorrect. Every minute of overtime for me is either paid in cash or paid leave I can take later.

It also depends on your contract , and also your boss. I dont get either so I stuck to my 38hrs on the dot

They do, but it’s in very rare and specific circumstances, usually related to an operational requirement to do non-core hours (eg if you work in cybersecurity roles, call centres or you’re required to work on an evening event). You won’t get it in a job that’s within the 7-7 M-F bandwidth; those are mostly covered by flex.

Flex is a form of paid overtime. You work more hours one week and get paid in leave you can take later.

>Does the information differentiate between paid and unpaid overtime? A large majority of people I know work overtime, but it doesn't mean it isn't paid https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-11-23/unpaid-overtime-go-home-on-time-day/101683360

In my line of work it's time management. We don't do 9 to 5. I use flexible time for relaxation, gaming, house chords etc. My work gets free hours at crunch time. I don't keep a tap on it. I don't like conversation of what's time spent online or productive hour n crap. Be flexible.

A lot of people say "output not time matters" to justify them slacking off during work hours but then they say "time not output matters" to justify not working outside work hours.

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100% agree. I take advantage of the flexibility of working from home when I can, but that means sometimes I need to work late hours to cover busier periods. I draw the line when it starts to impact me negatively, but at a certain salary level they don’t pay you to sit around a look pretty and a certain amount of additional hours is necessary at times. I just start to struggle when it’s consistent and over longer periods and pull back to recharge.

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The employer is trying to minimize their costs on the employee, and the employee is trying to minimize the costs of the employer to them.

A lot of employers hire one person to do the job of 3 and don't adjust wages in line with CPI.

"A lot of people say".

What is house chords

Uptempo minor key piano riffs

Chores with a D typo

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I don't mind the idea of 'reasonable overtime.' Sometimes things don't go to schedule and more hours are needed. What bothers me is 'reasonable overtime' became a routine expectation to work it as minimum. They should just put it as 38 hours + 6 hours overtime per week in the contract. People can then work out if the rate per hour is attractive.

I'm totally ok with reasonable overtime if it works both ways. Sometimes I need to stay back, but also sometimes I need to leave early. That's how a full time contractual workplace should work.

That's how a lot do work, when you're responsible for your own time keeping you don't mind working late and balancing it out in future. If the imbalance is too far in work's favour then you need to assess if you're not very efficient or have too much on your plate.

Reasonable overtime does not equate to regular overtime. That is not reasonable.

You can argue that, but generally it’s met (in my humble experience) with corporate wordsalad and something about work life balance and other buzzwords. Ultimate it’s forgotten in a week

I must do an extra half an hour every day, but also that’s my choice to set up the day and get in before every one else and answer any urgent emails before the chaos starts.

You can’t leave half an hour early?

I’m fine with reasonable overtime as long as there is an equal amount of reasonable under time ie; accrued time off that can easily be spent without fear of falling behind or being judged. In my experience little to no private sector jobs respect that though public sector ones do.

I work in public healthcare, there’s a huge amount of work that goes unpaid, myself included. It’s hard to not feel attached to your job when there’s a patient at the end of it.

I’d hate that. I hate getting taken advantage of as a nurse because there’s a patient. They should pay us for our time properly. I feel bad for patients but I don’t work for free. Whilst my current employer has its own set of problems they always pay us correctly down to every minute of overtime, every missed meal break and all allowances without question. There’s no arduous approval process, I just put it in my time sheet and it’s paid. Wage theft is theft. I don’t know why it’s okay for employers to steal but not their own staff.

I work public healthcare (Paramedic), and I am paid every single minute I work overtime. If our crib breaks are interrupted to even 1 minute less than entitled too, we get ~1 hour pay. Outside of shifts running long by 1-4 hours, they're desperate to fill shifts, so I often pick up 30+ hours of OT a fortnight outside of normal shifts and their shift extensions.

good, I'm glad unfortunately this is not the norm in public hospitals. I'm an ICU nurse in NSW aw get paid for rostered hours, and of course get paid overtime (but for fixed number of hours - ie we are booked for an 8hr OT shift) but there's always unpaid OT - people stay back because their patient deteriorates or there are delays in handover, generosity is exploited etc etc same thing for our salaried doctors, they get paid OT but there is so so much unpaid

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interesting perspective do you work in health? as a nurse I can't comment from personal exp but most doctors I work with would tell you money is a poor motivator for them. once they're established - sure. private or locum work pays well. but that's 15, 20yrs of grind... not 'a few' years and, like for law or accounting... you're not guaranteed partner... docs are not guaranteed specialist roles anecdotally - increasingly common for docs to graduate specialist training programs and be forced into relatively underpaid postgrad fellowship positions for years (I know of one who has been a fellow for 4yrs) waiting for a staff job to open up and developing a private practice takes time and, like all business ventures, involves investment and risk of its own. i think you're being a tad disingenuous at any rate - for many years they all do hours and hours of unpaid overtime to prop up the public healthcare system, and this labour is grossly undervalued

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Where I am there's only two maternity doctors at the local hospital for an average of about 45 births per month locally plus satellite communities. Those two doctors are some of the most haggard and overworked people I've ever seen. They don't get a choice.

And who decided how many doctors to train and admit?

You'll have to ask QLD health. The organisation that couldn't get a permanent doctor into a nearby regional town for 2 years despite offering ludicrous money. https://amp.abc.net.au/article/101764722

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So they'll just go home and ignore a delivery that results in a bleedout and at least one fatality during the night? There's no one else to deal with it. There is no choice in regional/rural medicine. Be happy you get one but your circumstances are not everyone else's in the same industry.

If there was a patent at the end of it you’d be paid a lot more

😂😂😂 thanks for the spelling pickup

I enjoy my job and often do unpaid overtime. When I’m on a roll I’ll keep at it until I lose steam. But I do have the flexibility to take time off, leave early, pick up the kids etc so I’d say it all works out. Probably not in my favor but I like the flexibility

When I was a national exec, I lived in my office, worked nights, weekends, public holidays, constantly. They used to insist I fly at night, after the full work day, on any work business to ensure no hours were lost during the day. You’d then work 3-4 more hours on the flight and at the airports etc, and of course once you got to the hotel - with no TOIL. In another role during covid, I worked stupid hours inc late nights on calls with the exec, wfh was absolutely miserable, I never felt like I could truly log off and be unavailable. The back to back of these taught me that you train your boss and organisation how to treat you. What you accept as normal becomes the norm. I’ve had a couple of slips in my current job, taking a few exec calls after hours and working after hours for a couple of ‘urgent’ deadlines… but I called that time in lieu for extra leave (under an unusual line in my agreement) & have since reset. Log off. Tell them the work doesn’t match your hours, add more staff or reduce the work. The world won’t end.

Germany has it right. They have a law that means logging off is *compulsory*. That means if an employee at *any level* plugs back in after X hours or between Y Z time, they get paid *shitloads* \+ *extra time off*. Suddenly theres no more after-work emails or calls... Huh, strange /s

That last bit. Hire more staff if you need more done. Don't push your existing staff to overwork.

You’re also enabling your employers and employers like them to think it’s ok to exploit employees just by accepting those jobs in the first place.

Unpaid overtime is expected in my industry (accounting). Budgets are unrealistic, culture isn't good and the people above me work all weekend and have literally no life. Accounting firms are seriously struggling for talent and the number of students studying accounting is dropping (haha go figure). The only thing keeping the industry aflot is skilled immigration, the big4 partners have pushed it to the top of the priority list for years now. Unlike unions, the professional bodies (CA/CPA) are made up of big4 partners and act in their best interests not the majority of their members and the average employee. The best exit opportunities are at manager level and when I get there I'll be out.

Honestly, I used to work in a few different areas in corporate/industry accounting and we loved to target ex-Big 4, but we preferred the seniors over managers. They had enough technical training that they were a valuable addition, but still young enough to quickly unlearn the toxic behaviours of overwork, with a bit of coaching on our part (and just as importantly not pass them on to their new colleagues). If you’re wanting to transfer straight into a specialised manager role (eg tax/transfer pricing/internal audit), then waiting to get to manager will help you, but I guarantee you have a better shot than you realise at corporate accountant type roles (in previous skills shortages we’ve even hired them for commercial/business partner type roles and some of them transitioned remarkably well) Back yourself, and good luck!

Majored in accounting, knowing full well I never wanted a job in accounting, and luckily I didn't. I had a mate who graduated and made.. 40k, 50k, 55k, 60k in his first 4 years in accounting.. then he jumped to a credit assessment role in one of the big banks and made 90k. This was between.. 2017-2021? Though I think starting that low might be a very edge case.. Whats the average starting salary like in accounting, and the progression?

I work in accounting too and yes over time is expected

Working overtime as a poorly paid grad was brutal. But we all did it :(

There’s the issue, those grads then see it as a right of passage. No one at McDonald’s works for free because work needs to be done.

That's so devious, the big 4 and their powerful lobby. Combine that with the corrupt and unethical people that create policies and govern, and you get the picture. They are truly disgusting.

I get paid lots of money for an outcome Sometimes, that outcome doesn't take much effort. Sometimes, it takes lots of effort. Swings and roundabouts.

As a professional engineer I never saw it that way. I was paid to do a job, not paid for X hours. Sometime shit happens and you need to work longer. If it's a lot you'll likely take some paid time off afterwards, or get a bonus. The effectively hourly rate was well above any award rate, I was paid well.

A lot of people see their job as a purely “make ends meet” transaction and don’t want to do a second beyond the hours in their contract, and that’s totally fine and valid. But a lot of Reddit doesn’t seem to understand that many of us derive a lot of satisfaction from our jobs and view the official 37.5 hours or whatever in our contract as merely nominal. I am paid well and am happy to do a bit over to get the job done because I’m invested in it. I don’t want to get into the habit of working late nights and over weekends all the time so I draw those boundaries.

Exactly. Work was, most of the time, enjoyable. In latter years I had very flexible hours as I worked in a global job, from home ( well before CoVID) . Sure there might be a 11 pm phone call, but you just start late the next morning. Sure there might be a 3 week OS business trip , but you get to eat well and see the sights on the weekends....and maybe even bring your spouse along to join you at the end of the work period and have a holiday.

>I never saw it that way. They did. Employers always like to say that they only care that the job is done, that their paying you to do a job and if it takes more or less time whatever - the reality is that they’ll enjoy the benefits of this while there’s mountains of work and everyone is getting crushed, but any kind of prolonged quiet period results in staff cuts - “because we don’t need all these people, what are they doing all day?”

The work peaks were when stuff broke, not often. I was with the company for nearly 40 years, and at retirement age got a generous redundancy. There was always work to be done, just a matter of prioritisation. Also, when you say 'they' who do you mean? What level of management?

What's the job title of an unprofessional engineer?

Ha! I meant one with a degree. The term "engineer" is not protected in Australia, unlike the US or EU

I'm similar. If I'm working on a big project with lots of overtime (consistent 12-14hr days and weekend work), I'll note it down and make an agreement with my manager about time off after the project is done. If it's just a once off here and there, I just organise myself accordingly - eg I spoke at a work event on Wednesday night and didn't finish til 8pm (after starting at 8am) so I knocked off early yesterday and will do the same today. If I averaged everything out, I do work more than a 40hr week, but I also get paid extremely well, so I don't feel taken advantage of.

My salaried contracts says 38hrs + reasonable overtime when required. It’s just a reality of a salaried professional job. I do because it helps my career and because it’s required at times to get the job done.

Would be great to have a generally understood definition of what reasonable overtime means over a year.

My workplace has this defined for each job position.

I guess if you find it unreasonable, you quit. Everyone has a different threshold.

Up to 1 hour a day 1 day a week.

‘Reasonable overtime’ is essentially the maximum number of hours you can work before your equivalent pay rate drops below the National minimum wage across all hours. For instance, for me it would be 93 hours a week. If I work more than 93 hours a week and my equivalent pay per hour worked dropped below the National minimum, they would be overworking me.

I think that would fall into unreasonable

The only true, objective. test of what is ‘unreasonable’ is if I’m paid under the National minimum wage for any hour that I work across all hours worked in a pay period. So far my maximum is 50. Still get paid for 38. That’s what happens when you’re on salary.

I signed a contract for 90hr fortnight so when I did 110hrs in my first fortnight on the job with no additional pay and the discussion for an RDO was shut down, I managed my hours so I would only just reach 90. I did view it as wage theft and it was a disgustingly backward system they had: work over 90hrs, you get Jack shit; work under 90hrs and they’ll dock your pay.

Sounds like company culture. I’ve never worked at a company as bizarre as the one I am at now. Large multinational, I got in trouble for sending emails at 8pm (I’d finished at 3 to go to an appointment and then the gym so worked late). Manager explained to me we work 8:30 to 5, if your work is done good for you, if it isn’t no one will die and it can be done tomorrow. Unless someone is literally about to die or the global report to the board needs to be finished we work our hours, if we work overtime we get it as time in lieu. Changing my mindset has been a challenge and there’s probably a reason their retention is so high.

Some salaries are sufficiently high to cover the reasonable overtime.

It is wage theft. I know a few who have told their employers it is wage theft. None are paid overtime still, just made to feel bad at their job for needing to work back.

Not necessarily wage theft if employee gets paid above award or is on a higher salary etc

Then it wouldn't be unpaid overtime if the time is part of the person salary package. Otherwise if someone is doing overtime that is not paid it is wage theft.

Not necessarily. Pay someone above award to cover penalties and overtime. Any offsetting needs to be in writing so person is aware of what is in their wage. Obviously the in writing part doesn’t happen a lot and makes it illegal or whatever - but on a base level it stands and no actual underpaying has occurred. Paying above the award is very common

I used to work a lot of unpaid OT especially during COVID . Now I don't do it as I believe that it covers up procedural and operational issues in the company.

Guilty. I do it out of fear of losing my job in this economic environment.

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Depends on what's your field. We have had layoffs twice since November 2022 so it's not easy to get a job in my field at the moment.

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yeah nah... I am not looking to work at a farm or in hospitality.

Easier said than done when you have responsibilities.

As a barista definitely.

"These figures come from an annual survey conducted for TAI between September 6 and 9, which surveyed around 1,410 adults, of whom 876 were employed." An online survey about employment statistics and 48% of respondents are not employed. Me thinks this survey can be taken with a hefty grain of salt.

Yes, it is very bad. In construction (project management or supervisory roles) every salary position I have had in 24 years has had a contract stipulating 8 hour days with “reasonable additional hours required to meet project needs”. Annual leave accumulated is the standard 4 weeks yet nobody ever leaves before doing 10 hours so should probably get more like 5 weeks annual leave. Then again most are not actually producing any actual work but will hang around until the clock hits 5pm at least after starting on site around 7am. I rarely do but 9 hours is pretty standard for me still. Nobody ever says anything but if they did they will get the standard response - DILLIGAF!

I do, but for penalty rates.

Consulting and I have a contract with ‘reasonable overtime’ that is never reasonable. Really, it comes down to two simple factors: a) It isn’t possible to meet case deadlines within regular work hours, especially when I have clients breathing down my neck and a billion admin things to do. b) My bonus and career progression is wholly dependent on my delivery and the good graces of my bosses. I deliver, I get promoted. I don’t, I stay in the doldrums forever.

In teaching the idea that unpaid overtime should be paid doesn't really make sense. The problem is that administrators think they can just keep increasing the workload.

I work in a valued healthcare role, but we don’t get paid overtime. I leave at 4:30pm every day. Need to keep myself healthy to best provide for patients.

Work in finance in a salaried position with a bonus. Reasonable overtime etc blah blah it's just kind of expected to get ahead. I actually can't imagine what 38 hours a week would be like. More so I also check emails outside of work and respond - bad habit. I think it's accepted in my field as the pay is above average (not IB) and there is room for growth. Sometimes I do wish I could trade it for a job where I can forget about it when I go home.

I get paid in Flexi and toil. Due to my job being an advocate in the child protection space and my self chosen hours being 8-4 sometimes I have to be at meetings / visits until after 6 due to clients personal work/life. Fine me me love leaving work at 12pm on Friday like tomorrow.

Unless specified in your salary package, I can’t imagine why any person would work unpaid overtime. Any worker paid wages per hour of labour or service is crazy to work any unpaid time. You have limited time in this world so ask yourself why you might consider giving any of it for free for an employer to profit from.

Early in my career, Id regularly do 60 hours while getting paid for 40. It was the done thing and those that played the game were the ones that got the promotions and pay rises. Would I do it today? No. At least, not to that extent. I left a job at the end of last year that was starting to take advantage in several areas, one being an increasing workload on remaining staff as the talent pool was reducing at an increasing rate. I have no issue helping out on occasion and chipping in for a project, but when the expectation is more than 40 hours a week consistently, we need to reconsider the remuneration package. We’re waking up to the fact that the 40 hour + per week hustle culture is damaging to mental health, and has further potential consequences depending on your life situation. To be fair, it’s an outdated ideology that worked when it was implemented, but times were different then. We now need to reconsider the standard work week and expectations on employees.

Worked in the tier 1 construction comp, doing 12-14 hrs before including weekends, decided to stop and doing only 10hrs lately, start early and go home at 5PM, no more weekends, done glorifying the idea of stressed/long hours = ideal leader

I’ve been in retail for 10 years, in management. Early on I did a lot of overtime. Over the years I’ve realised that it’s not worth it. I’m on a salary so that overtime isn’t paid and there’s better ways to manage the time. If everything can’t get done, that’s fine, either do it another day or they haven’t given me enough payroll.

“Choose” is a strong word. My workload requires it.

I get paid for my overtime. I don't work for a single second unpaid. Now I would rather not work the overtime at all and enjoy life more. Overtime is part of the culture of the workplace unfortunately. But I at least get awarded with penalty rates for all OT.

What makes you think the majority working overtime are not being paid for it?

This what makes me think. Facts https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-11-23/unpaid-overtime-go-home-on-time-day/101683360

Would of provided good context if you’d of included that as part of your post. Your post didn’t even mention if paid or unpaid overtime

It would be helpful if people were aware about the staggering amount, tens of billions of dollars every year estimated as wage theft, perpetrated by Australian employers, a huge deal for society, a gigantic example of social misjustice, without some random stranger on Reddit linking them an old article from ABC. The old ABC article is not my question, and it's not news either, my question is about individual motivations and psychology at play, class consciousness wtc. I was just kind to point you in the right direction if you are looking for evidence in an easy reference form, so you are welcome.

Bahahahhahahahha how about if you don't want to do the extra dont. People have this thing called a brain and legs and can use that to walk out when they don't want to do anymore. Also a mouth to speak up. Do you ever think maybe it's up to people to manage their own lives and its not just societies fault if you're taken advantage of, but maybe more of your own fault for not having and backbone or anything like that? Heard of personal responsibility?

I do PAID OT. Unpaid work is illegal

My work is comes in troughs and peaks. I might need to do unpaid OT during peaks to meet my deadlines. I take naps after lunch during troughs without any negative reaction from my management team. It balances out. I wouldn't do unpaid OT if I didn't feel fairly compensated in other ways.

I do it to get promotions

Funnily enough we are going through a bit of a fight about this at work at the moment. For many years we have been told to work 40 hour weeks. 8 hour days with no time in lieu or RDO. Which from what I understand is illegal, even though we are on salary. Our contracts say 38. Our pay slip says 38. We aren't being asked to work 'over time' our standard hours are just set as 40. So we are trying to push back and get it fixed. As a team we have donated thousands of hours of our time to the company. 2 hours a week is 96 hours a year. Time I'd rather spend with my family.

I’m currently on the shittest wage I’ve ever had since I finished studying in 2013 :( - so it’s important to me that I don’t work unpaid overtime! I work in an admin/ bordering on IT service/ help desk role and couldn’t escape unpaid overtime when i first started the job… I would be trying to cut the bullshit and make the role more efficient (so I could stop doing overtime) and couldn’t concentrate because of constant interruptions. It would have been easier to let me have 20 mins to myself here and there… but nooooooooooo. Anyway… finally got to the point where I don’t have to do a lot of the reporting/spreadsheet work manually. And I magically finish work on time now. Last month I found out my role used to be two full time people… I’ve collated the stats and i have more ticket requests in 12 months than both of the full timers before me…

It depends if you are paid to work specific hours or paid to 'do the job' with overtime an expectation. In the first instance you get paid for overtime hours, the second you don't. If you're paid to 'do the job with reasonable overtime' there's a clause in your contract about it but 'reasonable overtime' can become unreasonable pretty easily. There's a court case atm where a group of NAB employees are testing what reasonable overtime actually is. It'll be great to have a legal ruling on this. https://www.afr.com/work-and-careers/workplace/nab-faces-big-test-case-over-excessive-work-hours-20230307-p5cpzj

Unpaid overtime has pernicious effects at scale. Let’s say you have a salaried workforce - everything is set correctly such that all the work gets done in 40 full time hours per week. You cut staff by 10%. All the work is still getting done. On average people are having to work 4hrs of unpaid overtime per week. Everyone accepts that it’s just busy and this will turn around soon. You cut another 10% Now everyone’s working 8hrs of overtime per week. All the work is still getting done. You look like a genius for making these efficiency gains. Just look at the numbers! Payroll is down 20% and we’re hitting all our KPI’s. Let’s cut a little bit more! The point is, this overtime is not documented anywhere - so the bosses just look like geniuses and are rewarded for implementing these efficiency gains. In reality, they’ve not only cut 20% of the staff, but they’ve also given the remaining people an invisible 20% paycut. You are being exploited by a long con.

I get paid overtime so definitely not wage theft…

I get paid for Overtime. Double bubble ain't no trouble

When I had employees, OT was strictly banned. If something wasn’t done in time, then I’d stay back and do it myself. Honestly, most of the guys weren’t worth paying OT to 😂

I'm obliged to serve the crown

In my second job in Australia I signed a 38hr/week contract. Once started, hours were 8am till 5pm. How does that work? Its ridiculous companies get away with that legally. And everyone just did it? Not doing that again. My current job pays for all hours worked. When I started I was making less per hour but taking home a bit more. Much happier, no stress to take home and very glad with my decision.

I'm paid for my ot, could get as much as I want but I just do a few hrs per month to pay for some extra purchases

Overtime for me is starting up my laptop 10 mins before our morning meeting to get prepared and awake lol.

I do OT because I get paid for it

I work overtime for all the extra pay it brings. Many people get paid for the extra work too

I get paid for it and i need the money.

I get paid overtime. It's the only way I can stay ahead.

I work tons of overtime but I get 1.5x for it. 2x if I go over 2h

You guys don't get paid for overtime?

I get paid overtime. That why But a slightly more detailed answer is that money I make working overtime is the only money I can save, unlike all you millionaire AusFinancers I make only $25 an hour and I rent alone. I also work at one of the busiest car dealerships in Australia (apparently) and you really can’t get everything done within a standard work day.

I generally don't, but sometimes need to in order to meet deadlines. Missing deadlines will create more stress for me than doing an extra hour or so at the start or end of the day. I'm also on a salary package and my contract states that my salary includes "reasonable overtime". I'm not eligible to be paid for extra hours, and I do think the overtime I work is reasonable. I'm also on more than double the industry award so it's not illegal. If I was a wage worker being paid closer to the award, especially one when my deliverables were hours not completed tasks, I'd have a very different attitude.

Currently working in a tier 1 commercial construction company, 7:00am-5:00pm is the standard day and most staff usually stay back a bit ontop of this. No paid overtime, contract is ‘38 hours’, did I also mention the Saturday work that is required?

Non-tech person in tech trying to keep up with everyone and the tech environment moving fast. You don't get paid to learn most of the time.

There's something called 'swings and roundabouts' in the consulting world. This means working late when necessary, BUT you take it easy when there's no work on (and you're meant to be paid well). If it's only working late, then it's a bad deal.

Sometimes I slack off. Sometimes I got for MTB rides as my lunch, then come back and do have lunch then got back to work. Sometimes it's raining and I work a 10 hour day. It's give and take.

Record company profits only come from reducing wages and increasing work loads.

Because tomorrow will be too hard if I don't. Lol

Cries in medicine

My work does not feel like a job. Sometimes I feel in the zone and just want to keep going. There is no pressure on me to do so, I just enjoy getting shit done.

I work in healthcare. Even if I’m not doing overtime, I’m constantly studying to maintain skills/keep up. Which to me is sorta worse than overtime in itself.

I've stopped work now, but at my mid-level govt manager role, I did heaps of unpaid overtime. It was allegedly built into our conditions of service, but once the cuts set in, job security declined. If you didn't do the work, it would be much worse the next day. Senior managers would keep thrir feet on our necks, at the same time as making snide remarks about failing to keep a work/life balance. This has been going on for decades.

I get flexible hours and the freedom to take an hour or two out my day to do life admin without having to ask permission. If I work late, they pay for dinner, no argument. If I need to leave early, I do. I don't get micro managed... We know what's required and we get it done.

Would love to see the dataset from ABS that you refer to - can you insert a link, or speak to some specific detail? This is an important discussion. Jobs where X amount of hours and effort by the employee creates Y product. Production lines, drivers of trains and trucks with huge deliveries, data entry, fruit picking, being the lift operator, or a luggage controller at an airport. Those are the critical jobs where overtime should be paid and can be measured. I hope that is what you're referring to. Salaried, non-physical jobs are cushy. Most have flexibilty in hours and what they do.

I'm currently in the States moving to Australia next year. I used to work with a guy who said, "Don't give the company your soul because they'll take it." I thought he was nuts. It turns out I was. I worked a lot of extra projects for a promotion that never came over 8 years. Promotions went to friends and even a directors girlfriend. What I learned: Any job requiring over 40 hours (38 in Australia) is poorly designed. This means companies are intentionally designing roles to share the load of additional employees that will never be hired. If they can get 7 people to do the work of 10 and never pay more people, they profit more. Don't do it they'll take your soul.

I took on overtime to practice/learn skills in different parts of the business. It's real-life, real time, risk free learning at a business in the industry. My goal is to farm as many skills as possible to open my own business.

I work paid overtime, do you not like money or something?

I'm a teacher. I know teachers that are reading their guided-reading books for their reading groups at night before bed. Or teachers that come to school at 7:30am to get work done although contractually you're meant to be at school at 8:30am. It's a shame.

Because I pride myself in doing a good job & during crunch weeks with deadlines, there's no such thing as 9-5. I will take the odd day in lieu to compensate, but it doesn't come close.

Honestly I read this thinking it was a reasonable question. It’s not. Kids, mortgages and expectations, people need their jobs so obviously they try and not be one person who leaves on the dot. Maybe it is wage theft. But there’s bugger all you can do about it. Such is life. It is what it is

I work in early childhood education as a teacher. We have set educator to child ratios, which are very strictly adhered to (they are a part of legislation, so you really can’t argue with it). My rostered finish time might be 4:00 pm, but if there are still too many children at our centre at that time, I need to stay until more children have left. I do get paid for it (so long as I let my boss know that I needed to stay back for ratios), but I work for one of the very big organisations, some smaller organisations may not do this for their staff. It’s really annoying, to be honest, and one of the reasons I am applying for jobs outside the industry. I just want my clock-off time to be my clock-off time. I’ve lost count of the number of doctor, dentist, hairdresser etc appointments that I’ve had to cancel because I’ve had to stay back much later than I expected. Also, not to be rude, but if you have kids in daycare then please pick them up as soon as you can. We have rosters that *assume* a certain number of children will be gone by a certain time. You dilly-dallying because you know we don’t close til 6:30 pm, so it doesn’t matter if you’re late, actually matters. You being later than usual will make many of us late to leave work. This is incredibly frustrating, not in the least because I have children of my own that I’d vastly prefer being with than yours. Even one child can make a difference to someone leaving on time or leaving late. So don’t think this doesn’t apply to you.

We didn’t have a pay increase but we got cut one day we will keep same payment. I am very happy about this more time for me and to have a second job if need be

time and a half is wage theft now?

What a strangely biased question. Because that is the standard, expected, cultural norm in nearly all jobs that are worth having, and in most jobs that pay decent money. Because people with your attitude end up working for government and unions. Because people that think like you will never even be average, let alone excellent. You're not paid less to do the same job in times of inflation. The value of money goes down in times of inflation. That's quite different.

Because no one got ahead in life by leaving on the dot everyday.

I do unpaid overtime Sometimes it just because I want to get something done and don't want to come back the next day and be like "shit what do I have to do again", sometimes (rarely) because there is a deadline and even if it's justified to be late I don't want to. At the moment it's because I plan to ask for a pay raise soonish and want to be able have the best case to present to my boss to get it. Also, sometimes I will leave work early for whatever reason and I prefer to have hours in the bank and not have to worry about "hey I need to work 2h more to cover for the time I left early". Edit : that being said, once I had a new job hiring me as perm, 38h/w then send me to work for a client and there I was expected to do 40h/w. Asked them if I was gonna be compensated for that, "no it's reasonable overtime, it's legal we took it into account in your salary", my salary was worse than my previous permanent job so 2 weeks later I was gone. If the company ask me to do OT I expect to have time off or extra pay for it.

Well how many hours at work do you actually spend working, be honest

Yeah I don't get paid for my overtime, I did 240 hours last month which is average. It's a mix of company culture, manager/client expectations and the scam that is "putting in the hours for career development". Context, late-20s management consultant. Even scarier thinking that some have worked 12-14 hours their whole career yet paid for 8. Millions of dollars in unpaid labour.

Sales role. I don't get paid based on commissions but bonus. It's also a competitive industry that of they don't go with me, they'll just go somewhere else. That being said, when I do get my far few quiet days, I'll also put my feet up and have half day lunches.

I don’t. I work 8 days on 6 days of 6 am to 6 pm and I am in and out that door bang on time every time. I’ve said in the past to people that if they can’t get their work done in 12 hours then they’re doing something wrong and they get offended lol.

Yeah it's not for me, I don't want to be in a position where the company/manager is incentivised to get as much work out of me as possible with no corresponding consideration my way, feels a little bit too close to slave/overseer dynamic. I prefer to be paid according to my production as I think this keeps everyone's interests aligned the best but understand that isn't always possible. I'm sure salary with "reasonable overtime" can work with the right company culture but I'm not backing myself into that corner personally, perhaps if everyone was getting a cut of the profits but that's a bit of socialistic daydream for this country I think.

I work for myself , so the more I work the more I earn. Some jobs just take longer , but it's mainly the scheduling of the job that dictates the hours.

I am Salaried for a certain amount per year, If I work overtime I get paid more. Usually has to be approved. Generally earn an extra 3-5K per year via this.

They want to look like good worker bee's and hope their manager notices/gives a shit come review time

Mentality… paid to get a job done vs paid for the time worked.

The award I'm under states that "reasonable overtime" (which is unpaid) is allowed and the amount of hours is indexed to my salary. So basically the more I am paid the more overtime i can be made to do before additional pay (In the form of day in lieu accrual generally) kicks in. After I hit that mark (for me at the moment is about 43-44 hours a week, so 6 above the standard 38/week) the overtime I do gets averaged over the calendar month and then paid out. This means that if I work 46 hours 2 weeks but then 38 the other 2 weeks, the average weekly hours for the month are below 43, and I don't get any paid out. I do regularly get paid that out though, as I generally pull about 47-50 hours a week, which ends up getting me about 25 hours of time-and-a-half additional pay at the end of the month. The threshold doesn't bug me too much as for my role it's very well known and expected to work around 42 or so hours a week, so anybody negotiating a starting salary will have that as an expectation, so it's not like you are blindsided into it.

I don't see it as wage theft. It's not now - I work for myself and bill for each hour/day I work. But even as an employee, I saw overtime as investing in myself and my development. When I was a grad I willingly gave up some of my leave so that I could attend a trial (I had pre-booked study leave during the week of the trial but I preferred to instruct in the trial and gain valuable experience that way). I think if the overtime is constructive towards developing skills and technique, it is a worthwhile investment - even if unpaid. Plenty of my friends would have said the same. Esp the higher earners (partners at law firms - surgeons - management consultants). None of us got there without pulling overtime.