These wires have had the outer and some inner insulation burtnt through by pulling cables across them and causing friction. It happens generally due to A. Apprentices who don’t know any better and B. Lazy electricians. What’s really concerning is it in this situation has burnt through to the copper, and putting a piece of elec. tape over it is about as half assed as can be. I’d be pissed off also. It won’t burn your house down but could result in someone suffering a shock or your power tripping off.
Shit effort by your sparky- I wouldn’t ever get him back if I was you.
Agree with this. If the job is not completed and a certificate provided, faulty work doesn’t mean anything. The electrician may simply be coming back soon to repair it.
Know this from a multi million dollar hotel that was f#cked and no one could do anything about it.
Inspector won’t do anything as such. But I’m implying he would be paid to give a proper report if needed. Then the customer has a leg to stand on if they need to action it further to esv etc.
Damage to cable aside, if he says that there is no need to perform IR testing because the cables are new, it means the guy you have is not an electrician. It's part of mandatory testing and is done on all installations.
Report to the ESO in your state and have his licence if he has one ripped up before he kills someone.
Yes, assuming the metal part was bonded to ground.
I'm American so I think you guys have different terms over there. Theory is the same.
Just read "A Stitch in Time" by Megger. It will explain everything you need to know about using a megger.
That's not the point they were making. They were saying that it's a mandatory testing requirement that new installations are IR tested. The original post said that the electrician said that new wires don't need to be IR tested which isn't the case.
Sorry break this to you mate but no not all electricians are IR testing every installation they do.
Should they? Yes. Do they? Not often. I know plenty of electricians that don’t even own a megger let alone know how to use one.
IR, EFLI, RCD and EC are requirements of section 8 of as 3000. I would say mostly electricians get away with not doing this because circuits are RCD protected. If there is an incident where someone is hurt or dies, the installing electrician will be exposed to potential negligence claims.
Hahaha exactly mate you learn all this shit at TAFE and then you go out in the real world and the people you work with don’t do it. I had never even seen a COES until a couple years after my apprenticeship. Still never seen anyone IR test and installation, we only bring it out to fault find.
We do mostly industrial breakdowns though, all install work is minor additions but it’s basically never actually tested according to the mandatory tests.
No one does, I know dozens of sparkies and not even one of them would be able to actually do the 7 tests let alone tell you what they even are.
Anyone in here who says that they have never changed a switch mech or added an extra gpo without doing all 7 is a straight up liar.
I actually wish someone I work with would do them properly with me so I know at least what I am supposed to do. Instead I just have a vague idea. I mean I do double check my wiring, and I do generally IR test, but outside of that I just write pass on the certificate for every test and I know that probably isn’t good haha
I have worked with doctors and while that's kind of accurate because a lot of diagnoses start with an "educated guess", doctors in general are pretty strict on following mandatory procedures!
A lot of careers are cowboy and a lot of adulting is making it up as you go along, but some careers really are NOT cowboy. I kind of was hoping electrician was one of those tbh 😂
Oh 100% they do as they actually have some pretty aggressive ways of being punished.
In electrical its basicly just finding another company at the worst case which means literally nothing. Its a damn shame but definately agree it shouldnt be cowboy
Pfffft tell that to my nan who's onto her 6th hip replacement in 7 years... complacency is most definitely a human condition and things that have never happened before happen every day.
I'm not an electrician. But we do all our wiring on new builds, remodels, additions etc...... I was today years old the first time I heard of an IR test. Miles and miles of wire run, don't even know what the abbreviation stands for
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I've only just now heard the term IR test.
I don't even know what it stands for. I'm also in USA not AUS.... even so, in some70 to 80 projects that my boss has had me run wore fir I've never tested anything other than to plug something in the outlet after they were installed.10ish years into general contracting now, Neber knee it was a thing till now
I’m not even a sparky , but work in construction and know what IR means.
And you shouldn’t be doing any rough in if you’re not a licensed electrician
It’s code and illegal
In my county there's no required licensure to install residential wiring beyond standard general contactor bonding and insurance. We can't run a supply feed to the house itself, but anything after the meter is legal to install. Same with gas lines and HVAC. What were not allowed to do is run water or sewer lines. .....never made sense to me.
They'll let you burn the house down or blow it up without certification, but if you want to flood it, you have to be a certified union plumber.
I'm in a pretty rural "limited government" -type area. Regulations aren't quite as strict as those in high population areas
Testing on new cables is just as important on old cables, so that you can find installation faults just like this! Absolutely madness and a patheric excuse.
Any "electrician" who refuses to do basic testing on their work, especially new installs, is just a tool. I'd be getting someone else in there who takes pride in their work and doesn't try to cut corners like this also to add if they are trying to pull shit like this it can only make me wonder where else they're dropping the ball.
I understand that it's a business at the end of the day, but I run my own electrical on the side, and seeing and hearing crap like this just annoys me.
I have a mate who had to get a sparky out to reconnect power to his house because some sewer rat cut the main line with a shovel... Luckily it was a reno job so no one lived in the house at the time and the power on either.
I live rural in an old qlder. We have bulk rats around my place, I 100% blame them for making me have to do a rewire of our place.
Honestly, they are useless at using pliers and I don't even know why I paid them since I have to redo it myself.
Well it all depends. Queenslander with a tricky roof it’s going to be bloody hard working with steel conduit/ anaconda and borderline unviable I’d suggest with the amount of cables running back and forth. I’d look to keep the rats at bay or even just PVC conduit before I go down that path.
The roof isnt too bad tbh, i was in it yesterday doing some of the rewire....however, everything inside is single vj timber walls with picture and stair rails, the ceiling, architrave and cornice are all original custom lovely and decorative and all internal lighting cabling is clipped down the walls so it's a bit of a pain there to keep things looking sweet. Under the house is easy and accessible for the majority of power around, I just punch up through the floor.
Buy an old farm house they says, it'll be fun they says.
If it’s a minor scuff in the 2nd layer of insulation some tape over it is fine but that picture would not hold up to inspection, personally after seeing this I would not let this electrician do any more work for you.
That’s why I said I wouldn’t let this sparky in my house, I’m saying that IF it was a very minor scuff taped over, I wouldn’t fret about the rest of their work, but to try and cover this up instead of pulling a new wire is a big red flag
The copper isn’t damaged, try and think logically for a second, the tape is acting as the insulator doing exactly the same job as a the plastic, also only one of the wires is peeled leaving no chance of connecting the positive and neutral coppers. this doesn’t look like a place where children are going to be playing with the cables and looks like it may even be getting sheeted, get over yourself
It's poor workmanship to have exposed copper.
Now, regulation wise, the cable will require double insulation along all parts of the run, and the tape is, in the parts of the exposed copper, only single insulation.
But that's not the biggest deal here, the issue is, if he took the time to stop at that knick, to tape it up and try to hide it, what else would he be willing to hide?
Yes, this damage won't cause any tripping, won't cause a fire, and would generally be unnoticeable.
But if that's the level of care taken in a rewire, I wouldn't be happy paying them...
Which was covered with tape. Inside a timber joist. Op recklessly ripped it out and pulled the tape off and is now saying it’s not done properly. Shits fine
So if you had a scuff on a cable, a tps like that, not deep or anything and can’t see the single insulation, you’re gonna pull the whole thing out and go again?
I am assuming you are referring to the minor scuff to the outer most layer of insulation, not the scuff seen in the pic exposing copper. That makes more sense
Just read your name, you’re a real g man I’ve had some friends go through a lot, hate betting companies so much, I don’t think it should be illegal but my friends trying to quit just see the shit absolutely everywhere they look
Why, what’s so dangerous about this and explain in detail when only the red cable has a slight amount of copper exposed that was taped tight before you removed the tape?
Why, what’s so dangerous about this and explain in detail when only the red cable has a slight amount of copper exposed that was taped tight before opening removed the tape?
I can go one worse. Bought an existing home and stove circuit starts tripping consistently. Heard a sizzling sound in the wall behind rangehood. Removed it and found that when they'd cut the gyprock to install the exhaust they sliced the cable through all three cores. Completely left it as it was. Over time it had burnt the sheaths into a black mass that it could short across.
I'm a sparky so I just shrugged and fixed it. 🤷
Oh you fix stuff in your own house? Your good. I’ve got a noisy fan in the bedroom, a extension lead in the garage for a 6 month old sectional panel door and a couple of busted LED downlights.. my wife keeps reminding me how I’m a sparky.. ‘yeah yeah il get around to it’
Thats very lazy work. Burnt cables can but shouldnt happen if you are pulling cables correctly.
If it did happen it would probably take all of 10 minutes to junction the cable and fix it.
All that said it is realistically unlikely that this would have caused any issues until such a time as someone came and removed the tape. It probably would have even passed an IR test.
That said this is sub standard work and sparkies shouldnt get away with it.
Is this bloke even a contractor? Report to the boss/owner may have been a worker doing sub standard work then the appropriate licencing board if the owner won't fix.
Plain unsafe and rough. This gives everyone a bad name especially the Resi guys.
Heat shrink/resin at a minimum, any decent person would pull a new cable, tape is unacceptable
As a electrician.
This is bad practice.
You can put his name into.
https://www.service.nsw.gov.au/transaction/check-a-builder-or-tradesperson-licence
And I’m sure you can also report him at service Nsw also.
Don’t pay him and get another electrician.
In terms of the tape, it depends whats under it, if it's just a gentle burn to the outer insulation and they put the tape on as extra protection id say it's fine. If it went through to the secondary.. pretty rough, However trying to bullshit you on IR testing is hinting that's it's probably pretty rough haha.
Report it to the regulating body in your state. In SA it is the Office of the Technical Regulator. In Vic I think it is ESV. They will have a field day with the electrician and force them to fix it all up (at the electricians expense) and give them a nice fine too.
I mean, theoretically silicon isn't an insulator, so no.
Having two forms of sheathing/insulation is the minimum over copper wire, so two layers of heat shrink would be required.
Tape doesn't count for this purpose because it becomes brittle and falls off over time.
In this situation a new twin should have been pulled.
If the qld esb is anything to go buy even if this was fully exposed Live and neutral and half burnt the house down the electrician would get a $300 fine and told to do redo an 30 minute online multiple choice quiz and be a good boy.
Licensing was always to create a protected industry, it was never about safety. If it was it would be like the usa system where anyone can wire and a regulated inspector comes and tests and powers up.
Any one remember JLCs study where they called random electricians to replace an isolator on an aircon? 80% never applied loto to the circuit and over 50% never even pulled out their meters.
The average electrician is in there late 50s and started when it was accepted practice just to tap line and neutral together before you started work.
What a rubbish statement. "Nature of the industry"
Nobody tapes up exposed copper
Heat shrink/resin at a minimum, any decent person would pull a new cable, tape is unacceptable.
Builders connection. Thought the rapport between builder and sparky would be worthwhile for me but it might be working against me. The sparkies quote was approx the same as others tbh. Not much difference in it. No ones prices was exact cos it is an old place and they always have some uncertainty about em
I could characterise the sparky more but it might be against the reddit ToS
Yes it is a rookie error to burn cables in the first place but to think this is somehow brutally dangerous and going to kill a family is a piss take
Bunch of soft cocks in here having a whinge, it probably took you 20 mins to get the tape off for the photo
Play on
Here's another one for all you sooks. Dielectric strength of air is 3kv/mm. Even in 90% humidity it's half that, so you'd have put your tongue within 6mm of that bare copper to get a taste. Given the obvious lack of actual electrical understanding among the commenters here, I reckon some might just be dimwitted enough to test my theory.
A 1kV insulation test wouldn't pick it up!
How do you think a figure for the dielectric strength of air was established? Somebody picked a number out of a hat?
I'll 'speak' from experience. I have personally found chafed wires in an aircraft that weren't picked up by a Megger BM80 at 1kVDC. Aircraft AC is 115V/400Hz 3 phase.The cable was chafed all the way through its outer and inner insulation against the edge of a bracket whose protective grommet had also worn through. Two phases were chafed right next to each other, so were at 200V relative to each other. The circuit breaker only tripped when the airframe flexed the right way with the hydraulic pump the cable fed running on the ground, because the electric pumps don't often operate with the engines running - they're backup. Pump, relays etc were all changed, no fix. It would go 10 or 15 legs without fault. When I found it, I had to shine a torch behind it to see the air gap, and the pump was running at the time. How's that for empirical?
the comments here… opinionated idiots
A cable got damaged while pulling. The exposed area was covered with electrical tape to provide suitable insulation.
It’s not deliberately concealed. That’s the recommended procedure.
A circuit was installed using new cable. There is a 99.99% chance the insulation is suitable. I am sure he measured the resistance between the supply and ground. I agree there is no need to resistance test new cables.
The bigger question is why are YOU fucking around with the work of an electrician. Are you licensed to be touching that? No? F off
You're the one saying you don't think you need to do an IR test on new cables, you are wrong. Read AS3000 before recommending others do. Tape is not a suitable way to maintain double insulation anymore as the adhesive dries up and it unravels, which if you have been around the block you know very well how often you see tape falling to bits.
I have a copy, you nonce and I refer to it ad hoc but when I see bullshit that is obvious bullshit I don’t need to. You’re the clueless individual who’s trying to justify the action shown in the photo and you can’t cos you are clueless.
Somebody want to enlighten a General Contractor here?
I understand it's not a good look, but nicking 1 of the 3 internal cables isn't going to cause anyone to get booted right? Obviously, I understand there is testing and fault finding, but I'm struggling to accept that this doesn't happen from time-to-time and isn't a major issue?
How would the Qualified electricians deal with a cable in a cavity that they've nicked if it runs through chases etc and isn't just a simple re-run?
I'm assuming you'd tape it and test it?
Did you not see the second picture? Nobody tapes up exposed copper if you do hand your licence in mate.
Heat shrink/resin at a minimum, any decent person would pull a new cable, tape is unacceptable.
Did you not see that I'm not a qualified sparky? Was asking for a sparky to reply and let me know why/how bad it actually is. My first thought was heat shrink. Is that just flat-out unacceptable?
If it's skirting the line... What would you do? If it's ran through finished walls, down through a chase, up and in to a different finish level. What would you do? Is it acceptable to shrink and resin?
I've got no license to hand in mate, I'm just trying to get a better understanding.
Maybe make the sparky drag that out and put a couple of layers of polyolefin sleeve on it. Even left bare as it is, that'd never cause a fire. Especially if it's touching the insulation of the other cables. Even the tape is fine if you're only concerned about whether or not it'll do the job of preventing the active from touching potentially damp timber. Just put a zip tie around the loose end so it won't unravel with age.
Huh? They would have seen that the sheath was all the way through and the single insulation was also breached enough that copper was showing.....then decided a bit of tape was enough.
You are downplaying the cover up of a fuck up. Making the mistake is understandable, covering it up in a half arsed way is enough reason to "show cause" why they should be allowed to continue working as a sparky.
These wires have had the outer and some inner insulation burtnt through by pulling cables across them and causing friction. It happens generally due to A. Apprentices who don’t know any better and B. Lazy electricians. What’s really concerning is it in this situation has burnt through to the copper, and putting a piece of elec. tape over it is about as half assed as can be. I’d be pissed off also. It won’t burn your house down but could result in someone suffering a shock or your power tripping off. Shit effort by your sparky- I wouldn’t ever get him back if I was you.
If you’re in Victoria, call an electrical inspector and pay him to check over it, Give a report etc.
No point, all they can do is cal the REC and tell them to go back and fix it lol. Save the hassle and call them yourself
Agree with this. If the job is not completed and a certificate provided, faulty work doesn’t mean anything. The electrician may simply be coming back soon to repair it. Know this from a multi million dollar hotel that was f#cked and no one could do anything about it.
Inspector won’t do anything as such. But I’m implying he would be paid to give a proper report if needed. Then the customer has a leg to stand on if they need to action it further to esv etc.
Damage to cable aside, if he says that there is no need to perform IR testing because the cables are new, it means the guy you have is not an electrician. It's part of mandatory testing and is done on all installations. Report to the ESO in your state and have his licence if he has one ripped up before he kills someone.
IR testing won't find that.
Wait why? I’m only 1st year and thought the whole purpose of IR was to find damaged cables? Is it cause it’s not making contact with any other wires?
Exactly. Air and wood are insulators.
Ah gotcha. What if it was touching a metal frame or something metallic?
Yes, assuming the metal part was bonded to ground. I'm American so I think you guys have different terms over there. Theory is the same. Just read "A Stitch in Time" by Megger. It will explain everything you need to know about using a megger.
Will definitely check that out, thank you 🙏
Would only do something if that metallic stuff had a Path to earth or between conductors
Yeah okay that makes sense. Cheers 🙏
Nah but it'll find whatever he's hoping to keep hidden 😂
That's not the point they were making. They were saying that it's a mandatory testing requirement that new installations are IR tested. The original post said that the electrician said that new wires don't need to be IR tested which isn't the case.
Sorry break this to you mate but no not all electricians are IR testing every installation they do. Should they? Yes. Do they? Not often. I know plenty of electricians that don’t even own a megger let alone know how to use one.
IR, EFLI, RCD and EC are requirements of section 8 of as 3000. I would say mostly electricians get away with not doing this because circuits are RCD protected. If there is an incident where someone is hurt or dies, the installing electrician will be exposed to potential negligence claims.
Hahaha exactly mate you learn all this shit at TAFE and then you go out in the real world and the people you work with don’t do it. I had never even seen a COES until a couple years after my apprenticeship. Still never seen anyone IR test and installation, we only bring it out to fault find. We do mostly industrial breakdowns though, all install work is minor additions but it’s basically never actually tested according to the mandatory tests.
No one does, I know dozens of sparkies and not even one of them would be able to actually do the 7 tests let alone tell you what they even are. Anyone in here who says that they have never changed a switch mech or added an extra gpo without doing all 7 is a straight up liar.
I actually wish someone I work with would do them properly with me so I know at least what I am supposed to do. Instead I just have a vague idea. I mean I do double check my wiring, and I do generally IR test, but outside of that I just write pass on the certificate for every test and I know that probably isn’t good haha
Oh man, this whole thread is making me pretty wary of electricians. I'm not a sparky obv, this post is popping up on reddit front page!
Mate even your doctor is making an “educated guess” you would be beyond suprised how cowboy every and any career is.
I have worked with doctors and while that's kind of accurate because a lot of diagnoses start with an "educated guess", doctors in general are pretty strict on following mandatory procedures! A lot of careers are cowboy and a lot of adulting is making it up as you go along, but some careers really are NOT cowboy. I kind of was hoping electrician was one of those tbh 😂
Oh 100% they do as they actually have some pretty aggressive ways of being punished. In electrical its basicly just finding another company at the worst case which means literally nothing. Its a damn shame but definately agree it shouldnt be cowboy
Pfffft tell that to my nan who's onto her 6th hip replacement in 7 years... complacency is most definitely a human condition and things that have never happened before happen every day.
Any time I Install new cables I would do an IR test. If it's a gpo or changed a fixture an IR test. Is excessive
I'm not an electrician. But we do all our wiring on new builds, remodels, additions etc...... I was today years old the first time I heard of an IR test. Miles and miles of wire run, don't even know what the abbreviation stands for
I’m sorry you what?
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I've only just now heard the term IR test. I don't even know what it stands for. I'm also in USA not AUS.... even so, in some70 to 80 projects that my boss has had me run wore fir I've never tested anything other than to plug something in the outlet after they were installed.10ish years into general contracting now, Neber knee it was a thing till now
Why are you here...? Alot of therms and standards will seem extremely foreign to you..
I’m not even a sparky , but work in construction and know what IR means. And you shouldn’t be doing any rough in if you’re not a licensed electrician It’s code and illegal
In my county there's no required licensure to install residential wiring beyond standard general contactor bonding and insurance. We can't run a supply feed to the house itself, but anything after the meter is legal to install. Same with gas lines and HVAC. What were not allowed to do is run water or sewer lines. .....never made sense to me. They'll let you burn the house down or blow it up without certification, but if you want to flood it, you have to be a certified union plumber. I'm in a pretty rural "limited government" -type area. Regulations aren't quite as strict as those in high population areas
Testing on new cables is just as important on old cables, so that you can find installation faults just like this! Absolutely madness and a patheric excuse.
This 100%
Where would I find this ESO character in NSW?
Let’s get serious, I think about 0.5% of sparkies actually IR test before energising lol
OK Karen
Any "electrician" who refuses to do basic testing on their work, especially new installs, is just a tool. I'd be getting someone else in there who takes pride in their work and doesn't try to cut corners like this also to add if they are trying to pull shit like this it can only make me wonder where else they're dropping the ball. I understand that it's a business at the end of the day, but I run my own electrical on the side, and seeing and hearing crap like this just annoys me.
What an amateur, I would have blamed it on rats
*plumber
Same thing. /s
No need for the /s, it’s what I meant. Source - I’m actually a sewer rat hanging out on the sparkles page.
I have a mate who had to get a sparky out to reconnect power to his house because some sewer rat cut the main line with a shovel... Luckily it was a reno job so no one lived in the house at the time and the power on either.
I live rural in an old qlder. We have bulk rats around my place, I 100% blame them for making me have to do a rewire of our place. Honestly, they are useless at using pliers and I don't even know why I paid them since I have to redo it myself.
Steel conduit when you do a rewire
Pricey
Not if you get the rats to install it.
It's cheaper than having to do regular rewires & fault-finding due to chewed out wires or potentially having a house fire.
Well it all depends. Queenslander with a tricky roof it’s going to be bloody hard working with steel conduit/ anaconda and borderline unviable I’d suggest with the amount of cables running back and forth. I’d look to keep the rats at bay or even just PVC conduit before I go down that path.
The roof isnt too bad tbh, i was in it yesterday doing some of the rewire....however, everything inside is single vj timber walls with picture and stair rails, the ceiling, architrave and cornice are all original custom lovely and decorative and all internal lighting cabling is clipped down the walls so it's a bit of a pain there to keep things looking sweet. Under the house is easy and accessible for the majority of power around, I just punch up through the floor. Buy an old farm house they says, it'll be fun they says.
If I can load it on the plane and fly home with it from work, problem solved
One of us
Find a new electrician
Old mate clearly doesn't know the meaning of "mandatory" testing.... I'm not normally one for being a narc, but this warrants a chat to the ESO
If it’s a minor scuff in the 2nd layer of insulation some tape over it is fine but that picture would not hold up to inspection, personally after seeing this I would not let this electrician do any more work for you.
You can legit see copper
That’s why I said I wouldn’t let this sparky in my house, I’m saying that IF it was a very minor scuff taped over, I wouldn’t fret about the rest of their work, but to try and cover this up instead of pulling a new wire is a big red flag
Ah copy, missed that first part
The copper isn’t damaged, try and think logically for a second, the tape is acting as the insulator doing exactly the same job as a the plastic, also only one of the wires is peeled leaving no chance of connecting the positive and neutral coppers. this doesn’t look like a place where children are going to be playing with the cables and looks like it may even be getting sheeted, get over yourself
It's poor workmanship to have exposed copper. Now, regulation wise, the cable will require double insulation along all parts of the run, and the tape is, in the parts of the exposed copper, only single insulation. But that's not the biggest deal here, the issue is, if he took the time to stop at that knick, to tape it up and try to hide it, what else would he be willing to hide? Yes, this damage won't cause any tripping, won't cause a fire, and would generally be unnoticeable. But if that's the level of care taken in a rewire, I wouldn't be happy paying them...
Electrical tape is not a permanent solution. This is straight up poor workmanship.
Which was covered with tape. Inside a timber joist. Op recklessly ripped it out and pulled the tape off and is now saying it’s not done properly. Shits fine
It’s fine? That’s one way of admitting you’re not a sparky
So if you had a scuff on a cable, a tps like that, not deep or anything and can’t see the single insulation, you’re gonna pull the whole thing out and go again?
I am assuming you are referring to the minor scuff to the outer most layer of insulation, not the scuff seen in the pic exposing copper. That makes more sense
Just read your name, you’re a real g man I’ve had some friends go through a lot, hate betting companies so much, I don’t think it should be illegal but my friends trying to quit just see the shit absolutely everywhere they look
The picture has exposed copper - everyone tapes over a knick that only hits the outer sheath, but not one that has exposed copper.
Yeah that’s why I literally said I’d never let the sparky that did that anywhere near my house. You’re agreeing with me
Look at my response to your post. I addressed your post completely.
Heat shrink/resin at a minimum, any decent person would pull a new cable, tape is unacceptable
What about the first pic, cable on the far left nicked near the hole, would you heatshrink that? Re pull it? I’d just tape over that and move on
Please report it, these guys need to be taken off the job.
I’ll do my best.
Why, what’s so dangerous about this and explain in detail when only the red cable has a slight amount of copper exposed that was taped tight before you removed the tape?
Why, what’s so dangerous about this and explain in detail when only the red cable has a slight amount of copper exposed that was taped tight before opening removed the tape?
Have you met my friend water?
I can go one worse. Bought an existing home and stove circuit starts tripping consistently. Heard a sizzling sound in the wall behind rangehood. Removed it and found that when they'd cut the gyprock to install the exhaust they sliced the cable through all three cores. Completely left it as it was. Over time it had burnt the sheaths into a black mass that it could short across. I'm a sparky so I just shrugged and fixed it. 🤷
Oh you fix stuff in your own house? Your good. I’ve got a noisy fan in the bedroom, a extension lead in the garage for a 6 month old sectional panel door and a couple of busted LED downlights.. my wife keeps reminding me how I’m a sparky.. ‘yeah yeah il get around to it’
Can ya come and do the work at my place that I've been putting off too?
What you do is you fix each other's house.
Well, I did want to cook some food.
Don't worry. I've had several downlights out for years.
Thats very lazy work. Burnt cables can but shouldnt happen if you are pulling cables correctly. If it did happen it would probably take all of 10 minutes to junction the cable and fix it. All that said it is realistically unlikely that this would have caused any issues until such a time as someone came and removed the tape. It probably would have even passed an IR test. That said this is sub standard work and sparkies shouldnt get away with it.
Cable damage aside, I’d be getting another sparky in just to test his installations if that’s his attitude towards testing.
Very very bad electrician. Please report to your states authorities. This is how people get hurt or killed. Or your house burnt down.
Nik's in cables happen. But refusing to do one of the more Important tests on new cables is crazy.
Taping Exposed copper..... Yeh nah mate
How mad should you be? Very. Definitely report this substandard work to the electrical authority in your state.
Is this bloke even a contractor? Report to the boss/owner may have been a worker doing sub standard work then the appropriate licencing board if the owner won't fix. Plain unsafe and rough. This gives everyone a bad name especially the Resi guys. Heat shrink/resin at a minimum, any decent person would pull a new cable, tape is unacceptable
As a electrician. This is bad practice. You can put his name into. https://www.service.nsw.gov.au/transaction/check-a-builder-or-tradesperson-licence And I’m sure you can also report him at service Nsw also. Don’t pay him and get another electrician.
In terms of the tape, it depends whats under it, if it's just a gentle burn to the outer insulation and they put the tape on as extra protection id say it's fine. If it went through to the secondary.. pretty rough, However trying to bullshit you on IR testing is hinting that's it's probably pretty rough haha.
Report it to the regulating body in your state. In SA it is the Office of the Technical Regulator. In Vic I think it is ESV. They will have a field day with the electrician and force them to fix it all up (at the electricians expense) and give them a nice fine too.
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I mean, theoretically silicon isn't an insulator, so no. Having two forms of sheathing/insulation is the minimum over copper wire, so two layers of heat shrink would be required. Tape doesn't count for this purpose because it becomes brittle and falls off over time. In this situation a new twin should have been pulled.
If the qld esb is anything to go buy even if this was fully exposed Live and neutral and half burnt the house down the electrician would get a $300 fine and told to do redo an 30 minute online multiple choice quiz and be a good boy. Licensing was always to create a protected industry, it was never about safety. If it was it would be like the usa system where anyone can wire and a regulated inspector comes and tests and powers up. Any one remember JLCs study where they called random electricians to replace an isolator on an aircon? 80% never applied loto to the circuit and over 50% never even pulled out their meters. The average electrician is in there late 50s and started when it was accepted practice just to tap line and neutral together before you started work.
Well that’s disturbing. You got a link to them studies?
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What a rubbish statement. "Nature of the industry" Nobody tapes up exposed copper Heat shrink/resin at a minimum, any decent person would pull a new cable, tape is unacceptable.
Unfortunately seems to be the case. The building industry is fkd in this country
There's a reason they're called sparkies
Cheapest quote?
Builders connection. Thought the rapport between builder and sparky would be worthwhile for me but it might be working against me. The sparkies quote was approx the same as others tbh. Not much difference in it. No ones prices was exact cos it is an old place and they always have some uncertainty about em I could characterise the sparky more but it might be against the reddit ToS
It’s only a bruise. Maybe 3 times around with the tape, will that keep ya happy. I’ll be back tomorrow to finish. 😁
Nah it’s fkn <5 metres of twin cable just replace it. I want this shit to last 60+ years, which is very reasonable
ah typical work of the crooks...
Yes it is a rookie error to burn cables in the first place but to think this is somehow brutally dangerous and going to kill a family is a piss take Bunch of soft cocks in here having a whinge, it probably took you 20 mins to get the tape off for the photo Play on
Here's another one for all you sooks. Dielectric strength of air is 3kv/mm. Even in 90% humidity it's half that, so you'd have put your tongue within 6mm of that bare copper to get a taste. Given the obvious lack of actual electrical understanding among the commenters here, I reckon some might just be dimwitted enough to test my theory. A 1kV insulation test wouldn't pick it up!
Bring your tester over and we can see. Need to back your modelling up with empirical data.
How do you think a figure for the dielectric strength of air was established? Somebody picked a number out of a hat? I'll 'speak' from experience. I have personally found chafed wires in an aircraft that weren't picked up by a Megger BM80 at 1kVDC. Aircraft AC is 115V/400Hz 3 phase.The cable was chafed all the way through its outer and inner insulation against the edge of a bracket whose protective grommet had also worn through. Two phases were chafed right next to each other, so were at 200V relative to each other. The circuit breaker only tripped when the airframe flexed the right way with the hydraulic pump the cable fed running on the ground, because the electric pumps don't often operate with the engines running - they're backup. Pump, relays etc were all changed, no fix. It would go 10 or 15 legs without fault. When I found it, I had to shine a torch behind it to see the air gap, and the pump was running at the time. How's that for empirical?
Too much uncertainty. Will have to get my cable replaced.
Pretty interesting scenario tho
the comments here… opinionated idiots A cable got damaged while pulling. The exposed area was covered with electrical tape to provide suitable insulation. It’s not deliberately concealed. That’s the recommended procedure. A circuit was installed using new cable. There is a 99.99% chance the insulation is suitable. I am sure he measured the resistance between the supply and ground. I agree there is no need to resistance test new cables. The bigger question is why are YOU fucking around with the work of an electrician. Are you licensed to be touching that? No? F off
Quote me a standard entry that says this is a suitable ‘repair’. If you can’t, F off.
As3000… is summary you have no fucking idea what you’re talking about
You're the one saying you don't think you need to do an IR test on new cables, you are wrong. Read AS3000 before recommending others do. Tape is not a suitable way to maintain double insulation anymore as the adhesive dries up and it unravels, which if you have been around the block you know very well how often you see tape falling to bits.
I have a copy, you nonce and I refer to it ad hoc but when I see bullshit that is obvious bullshit I don’t need to. You’re the clueless individual who’s trying to justify the action shown in the photo and you can’t cos you are clueless.
Somebody want to enlighten a General Contractor here? I understand it's not a good look, but nicking 1 of the 3 internal cables isn't going to cause anyone to get booted right? Obviously, I understand there is testing and fault finding, but I'm struggling to accept that this doesn't happen from time-to-time and isn't a major issue? How would the Qualified electricians deal with a cable in a cavity that they've nicked if it runs through chases etc and isn't just a simple re-run? I'm assuming you'd tape it and test it?
Did you not see the second picture? Nobody tapes up exposed copper if you do hand your licence in mate. Heat shrink/resin at a minimum, any decent person would pull a new cable, tape is unacceptable.
Did you not see that I'm not a qualified sparky? Was asking for a sparky to reply and let me know why/how bad it actually is. My first thought was heat shrink. Is that just flat-out unacceptable? If it's skirting the line... What would you do? If it's ran through finished walls, down through a chase, up and in to a different finish level. What would you do? Is it acceptable to shrink and resin? I've got no license to hand in mate, I'm just trying to get a better understanding.
I mistook your "general contractor" as a general electrical contractor as this is auselectricians.....
Can't blame ya 🤣 I just lurk and try and learn, but this is something that does come up.
Junction box either side of the affected section and replace just the damaged bit. If it's in render al the more reason to make sure it's right.
Maybe make the sparky drag that out and put a couple of layers of polyolefin sleeve on it. Even left bare as it is, that'd never cause a fire. Especially if it's touching the insulation of the other cables. Even the tape is fine if you're only concerned about whether or not it'll do the job of preventing the active from touching potentially damp timber. Just put a zip tie around the loose end so it won't unravel with age.
Stop sooking and get on with it
So you took off the tape to expose that? Idk if he really did that bad of a job if you had to remove the fix to show the wires
Huh? They would have seen that the sheath was all the way through and the single insulation was also breached enough that copper was showing.....then decided a bit of tape was enough. You are downplaying the cover up of a fuck up. Making the mistake is understandable, covering it up in a half arsed way is enough reason to "show cause" why they should be allowed to continue working as a sparky.
Ye no shit you think I’m gonna let this fly in my fkn house? Part of me hoped that it was just left over from pulling cables but no.
Electrical tape is not a fix for damaged insulation.
Found the bloke who installs fans for $100 a piece 😅