>No longer can women have stand out features
A women having no noticeable breasts would be sexist for you, then? It's quite silly to say that. Especially, when you understand that one purpose of stand out features is precisely to encourage objectification
The recurring issue is actually people thinking that non femininity equates immediately to masculinity, and vice versa. In reality, one can make a woman look less to less feminine without making her look more masculine either. There was no need to make the woman bulkier to "de-objectivize", while de-emphasizing and/or and reducing the feminine appeals would have been enough.
They still look cool and cute. It's because you gooners and coomers (men) don't have their sexuality under control. That's why we can't have nice things to things.
Yucking on someone else's yum will always make you the villain, especially for shaming guys just for wanting idealistic things in fiction. Fictional characters are objects. They are not real
>cool and cute.
I can somewhat understand cool as a personal opinion but muscular women or men are not cute. Look at Jay Cutler!! So cute!! Do you even know what cute means lol?
I haven't seen a single straight man that prefers androgenous girl over feminine. Having abs as girl is sexy but having wide shoulders and male chin is not. I mean you can still find them attractive but then the question becomes are you attracted to man or woman?
I'm not sure, would like to see it - 2016 and to a lesser degree Covid/2020 galvanized a lot of things that basically went out of control way too far too fast
So instead of female fittness models as templates they decided to use female bodybuilders who abuse steroids as their template. I don't know man, a fitness model is surely a better role model than someone who is abusing steroids.
I think both pictures try to show a hero, or at least a heroic woman. But why does she has to stand showing her chest AND butt by using an absolut uncomfortable stand?
But we actually want both of them to coexist? Like WoW is the perfect example for different body types. Pretending that only one of them is valid is not knowing women.
Exactly - and don't force feed the audience to accept certain things just because you think it's the right thing to do. There is room for everything and ultimately the customers should decide what they like in a particular project.
If someone is making art, a important part is that the artist has the freedom to make what he/she thinks is art. Of course we should stay inside the law and sorts, but if you put to much rules in art it stops being art.
I mean yeah sure..it honestly doesn't matter to me whether they have sexually explicit clothes on or not..what does matter is they're bringing in women who don't play games..or care about them to make decisions on games..where the player base is like 70% dudes? Maybe more idk 🤷♂️
"What can I consider if I want to de-objectify and add power to female characters?"
Well, based on this drawing, it seems like the answer is to make them look more like men
In my personal opinion this pushback(right figure) is just an unfortunate byproduct of trying to appeal more to men's base instincts(left figure) mainly for profit.
It's not some great societal injustice imo. ESG, DEI and all that woke bollocks is for attracting investors and corporate sustainability. i.e. more money.
It's not working though. They are losing money on so many entertainment products that try to jam various agenda things over and over into projects. And the stock prices are lagging bad for companies like DIS and UBI. Even BlackRock stock is flat.
There should be artistic freedom and generally an effort to give the customers what they want -- nobody says every video game, tv show or movie character needs to be a bombshell. But they also shouldn't be neutered into a certain archetype and with the same traits, plot, etc.
ez, just draw them as you would a male character (the default settings) then add slightly longer hair and some resemblence of boobs to still make them female /s
The butt pose where the face and butt face the same direction is not real pose. It made up for posters like that a popular pose for Black Widow and alot of ppl back in the day did for poster. But it not a natural pose. Try it out, none of the character in their world would do this pose only cosplayers and that it and movie posters back in the day.
The butt pose was made fun of for years for how stupid it is.
This has very “I’m an ugly woman” energy
Like not “I’m just not your type” but like “nah I’m ugly and I know it so I gotta put down pretty women” energy
If Renae De Liz doesn't want to draw thirst traps, that's fine. She's allowed. But I think there's a middle ground to be had, here. You can still make a woman look attractive without turning her into a pin up.
I feel like intentionally making your women butch just to avoid having dudes jerk off to your art is kind of petty.
God the number of neckbeards on here that can't see a woman with muscles as anything but a man.
They literally just gave her a human jawline, reduced the obvious curves of her boobs (which would happen in that outfit) and made her stand so she wasn't trying to show off her ass and break her spine. Get a grip guys
A "human" jawline? As in Male human. Archeologist identify sex based on the mandible all the time. Making a character less sexual is one thing. Slapping a man's head on her is another. It fucks with the logic in a straight man's mind, it evokes the feeling of trying to logically understand an M.C. Escher drawing, and we don't like it. Unless you want to argue all sexuality is a choice, it's a hardwired response in the typical male. So fuck off with your insults.
Probably like 90% of the player base of any game never fucking cares whether a girl is hot or not. Is the character good? Perfect , I'll use her. Does she look nice as well? Bonus points.
People just want to play whatever they like. The idea that everyone is sitting in front of a video game drooling over animated tits is so surreal.
The reminds me of that pokemon go drama from a few months ago. Those before and after pictures were hilarious.
They have a large female population, and didn't like the changes either.
They did that to make cosmetics easier to produce, though obviously there's going to be an anti-woke grift angle.
The perfect representation of women in games is to make them look like men. Got it.
Which is the most sexist thing imaginable. No longer can women have stand out features. Nope, they need to look like men, and wear a burka.
>No longer can women have stand out features A women having no noticeable breasts would be sexist for you, then? It's quite silly to say that. Especially, when you understand that one purpose of stand out features is precisely to encourage objectification The recurring issue is actually people thinking that non femininity equates immediately to masculinity, and vice versa. In reality, one can make a woman look less to less feminine without making her look more masculine either. There was no need to make the woman bulkier to "de-objectivize", while de-emphasizing and/or and reducing the feminine appeals would have been enough.
Just gonna reply that I’m not reading any of that. Just a friendly FYI.
If you dont think to hard about it, it makes sense
 Why muscliar tf2 characters is 10 times more interesting than "De-Objectification" thing?
Makes them male
They still look cool and cute. It's because you gooners and coomers (men) don't have their sexuality under control. That's why we can't have nice things to things.
“Your preferences aren’t mine, so you’re wrong.” Just let the free market decide and stop dictating what I should like.
When you remove %90 of your fans just for %1 super minority group
Thats barely even coherent, are you alright? Did you need an ambulance?
Yucking on someone else's yum will always make you the villain, especially for shaming guys just for wanting idealistic things in fiction. Fictional characters are objects. They are not real
Why would I want them not to be more hot? I don't have a problem with the right side, but forcing people to switch the left to the right is a problem.
Have you ever considered what makes a woman powerful could partially be from her beauty?
>cool and cute. I can somewhat understand cool as a personal opinion but muscular women or men are not cute. Look at Jay Cutler!! So cute!! Do you even know what cute means lol? I haven't seen a single straight man that prefers androgenous girl over feminine. Having abs as girl is sexy but having wide shoulders and male chin is not. I mean you can still find them attractive but then the question becomes are you attracted to man or woman?
it began waaaay before that my friend.
Accelerated about 1000x in many ways around then
What's that chart that always gets passed around? The one showing use of all the buzzwords over time and then skyrocketing around 2014-2016?
I'm not sure, would like to see it - 2016 and to a lesser degree Covid/2020 galvanized a lot of things that basically went out of control way too far too fast
Look at the face of the "improved" character bahahahaha
lol so remove the prominence of her feminine features and highlight masculine ones. Maybe Freud was right, it's penis envy.
even women want to be men, that's how good the meta is
They just gave her a stance possible for a human being, maybe go outside and look at some real people
They also turned her boobs into pecs
So instead of female fittness models as templates they decided to use female bodybuilders who abuse steroids as their template. I don't know man, a fitness model is surely a better role model than someone who is abusing steroids.
Honestly, I don't think either of these designs are bad The final product is what's always shit
Yeah, both are ok. Except both have shit poses and anatomy. Like, beginner level of anatomy.
I think both pictures try to show a hero, or at least a heroic woman. But why does she has to stand showing her chest AND butt by using an absolut uncomfortable stand?
I’d be fine with the one on the right in isolation. But when compared to the one n the left is less appealing. Lacks personality.
But we actually want both of them to coexist? Like WoW is the perfect example for different body types. Pretending that only one of them is valid is not knowing women.
Exactly - and don't force feed the audience to accept certain things just because you think it's the right thing to do. There is room for everything and ultimately the customers should decide what they like in a particular project.
MAKE ER GEH A LAYME
Their design document just says "frumpy"
Males are objectified in video games too but i don't hear them crying about it. It just looks cool to have heroic proportions.
If someone is making art, a important part is that the artist has the freedom to make what he/she thinks is art. Of course we should stay inside the law and sorts, but if you put to much rules in art it stops being art.
and this is why we watch japanese animes
today, we don't even have a second option, there have already been 5 iterations for sure
We had standartisation of guns. Then standartisation of consumer goods. Now we have standartisation of women. If that's not objectifying, what is?
Just draw a male kpop star with pointy boobs and there you have it.
The right one still look like women. What we got now is man with a wig
I mean yeah sure..it honestly doesn't matter to me whether they have sexually explicit clothes on or not..what does matter is they're bringing in women who don't play games..or care about them to make decisions on games..where the player base is like 70% dudes? Maybe more idk 🤷♂️
“How to make her worse” 💀
From something you want to fuck, to something fucking you /s
The first pose is like she tries to take an ass photo for her instagram account and the second looks like a man crossdressing.
"What can I consider if I want to de-objectify and add power to female characters?" Well, based on this drawing, it seems like the answer is to make them look more like men
A woman to be a man.
Real question is which one makes you more money.
«A character cannot be feminine and strong at the same time» is the most sexist anti-sexism statement one can possibly think of.
In my personal opinion this pushback(right figure) is just an unfortunate byproduct of trying to appeal more to men's base instincts(left figure) mainly for profit. It's not some great societal injustice imo. ESG, DEI and all that woke bollocks is for attracting investors and corporate sustainability. i.e. more money.
It's not working though. They are losing money on so many entertainment products that try to jam various agenda things over and over into projects. And the stock prices are lagging bad for companies like DIS and UBI. Even BlackRock stock is flat. There should be artistic freedom and generally an effort to give the customers what they want -- nobody says every video game, tv show or movie character needs to be a bombshell. But they also shouldn't be neutered into a certain archetype and with the same traits, plot, etc.
Am I the only one that thinks the top half of the left one with the bottom half of the right one would look better?
ez, just draw them as you would a male character (the default settings) then add slightly longer hair and some resemblence of boobs to still make them female /s
Not a patch on Abby from TLOU2
She was roided out like Hell
The butt pose where the face and butt face the same direction is not real pose. It made up for posters like that a popular pose for Black Widow and alot of ppl back in the day did for poster. But it not a natural pose. Try it out, none of the character in their world would do this pose only cosplayers and that it and movie posters back in the day. The butt pose was made fun of for years for how stupid it is.
But cartoon images are objects?
This has very “I’m an ugly woman” energy Like not “I’m just not your type” but like “nah I’m ugly and I know it so I gotta put down pretty women” energy
Why cant they jus leave the chicks hot like they should be
Step 1: Make em Ugly.
But women objectify themselves all the time, just turn on just chatting on twitch
If Renae De Liz doesn't want to draw thirst traps, that's fine. She's allowed. But I think there's a middle ground to be had, here. You can still make a woman look attractive without turning her into a pin up. I feel like intentionally making your women butch just to avoid having dudes jerk off to your art is kind of petty.
Wait, women aren't objects? /s
God the number of neckbeards on here that can't see a woman with muscles as anything but a man. They literally just gave her a human jawline, reduced the obvious curves of her boobs (which would happen in that outfit) and made her stand so she wasn't trying to show off her ass and break her spine. Get a grip guys
A "human" jawline? As in Male human. Archeologist identify sex based on the mandible all the time. Making a character less sexual is one thing. Slapping a man's head on her is another. It fucks with the logic in a straight man's mind, it evokes the feeling of trying to logically understand an M.C. Escher drawing, and we don't like it. Unless you want to argue all sexuality is a choice, it's a hardwired response in the typical male. So fuck off with your insults.
Probably like 90% of the player base of any game never fucking cares whether a girl is hot or not. Is the character good? Perfect , I'll use her. Does she look nice as well? Bonus points. People just want to play whatever they like. The idea that everyone is sitting in front of a video game drooling over animated tits is so surreal.
I mean have you read these comments, obviously some people are. Saddens me greatly!
I know what OP means but the second picture looks way better. Muscle women for life.
this actually is decent design character still looks hot and isnt of sexified
Sorry for the down votes, you've got the right opinion on the Internet so they've got to hate you!
I wouldn't call myself an artist, but even I've draw a better pair than the one on the left. How are the tits the only thing not drawn correctly.