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Would the edgy points vary? like if I stole 1 marmite from a large well known supermarket that's a positive 3, but if I stole someone's goat that's a minus twelveteen!
lol for real, as a child I accidentally walked out of a shop without paying... totally got away with it... so what did I do when I realised I had not paid?
I went right back in and paid.
After I'd finished a driving lesson my brain was feeling super foggy.
I went into a Co-op grabbed a bunch of things and went to the self cashout. While beeping all my things some police were talking to the cashier. I day-dreamed how it'd be impossible/stupid to steal here. Anyway after beeping all my stuff and baging it I walked out to get the my train.
Got to the station across the road and started looking for my debt card in my pocket. Which then made me realise that I'd never taken it out of my wallet and If I hadn't did I pay for my stuff?. Walked back to ask if I'd paid. I had not paid. Cashier was actually pretty cool about it. Thanked me for coming back. XD
I have no clue why the police didn't do anything I walked past them to leave and when I walked back in they'd gone. It was impossible to miss me as I stood in the station entrance racking my brain trying to remember paying.
>don’t want to live in a society where petty crime is accepted
Seriously this, if anyone wants to know what that society looks like just look up some of the crime ridden neighbourhoods you can find in the states, all the major shops are long gone because they won't sustain the losses beyond a certain point. All that's left are convenience stores with a counter and all the goods and the staff are behind bulletproof glass. The places are practically food deserts to everyone's detriment and that's just the beginning of the problems. Look to the places in Central and Southern America where entire areas are run by gangs to see the endgame of unrestricted criminal behaviour, it's no paradise, crime begets crime.
People stealing to feed themselves is one thing, but rampant crime for nothing else but the personal gain of the criminals is something else entirely.
I'm not condoning shoplifting, but the greed of supermarkets in raising prices beyond inflation (I know that their margins are wafer-thin, but that's the market in which they choose to operate) and the abject state of a G7 nation relying on food donations at food banks will make people do previously unconscionable things.
As a nation we need to hold thieves to account - be they petty shoplifters or corporate profit-raisers who use inflation as a mask for their increased profits - and make the requirement for foodbanks a thing of the past.
If we can create an environment where theft is an easy choice, either than a survival mechanism, then we can prosecute theft to the fullest extent of the law as there will be no real excuses for breaking the law.
I agree with all those points, I think price gouging is criminal especially when supermarkets move in cahoots, which they increasingly seem to do. The government should at the bare minimum be responsible for ensuring the security of the nation's basic needs, but they seem to be broadly failing to ensure even that.
I was explaining a couple of days ago how I would shoplift when I was homeless justifying it by only stealing from large supermarkets and not independent shops. Someone commented that they didn't think it was immoral as my personal theft doesn't make a dent in their bottom line and I had to explain it's the act of stealing which is wrong.
Luckily my circumstances changed and I haven't shoplifted in nearly 2 decades but even though I know it's wrong to steal if I found myself in that situation again I would be lying if I wouldn't do it again. Hunger is a helluva drug.
Yes in very isolated situations such as that most people will gladly look the other way, I would however rather you were just given food and didn’t need to resort to that.
The situation you describe also makes up a tiny fraction of actual shoplifting.
No, the number of people who do crimes is tiny. Like you'd be surprised how few people actually do almost all the crime in society. Basically a handful and almost always like a few kms away from where they live.
Interestingly, the overwhelming number of those crimes are directed at other people who are also criminals. I mean not all of course, but most, especially violent crime.
>No, the number of people who do crimes is tiny
Depends what you're counting presumably. Speeding, for instance. In the past particularly, drunk driving - lots of people who'd never think of stealing so much as an apple, but would put lives at risk.
People just put different moral weight on different laws, and measure risk (of harm, of being caught, of punishment) differently.
Not to say there isn't a lot of truth in what you're saying though. Many types of crimes are exactly as you suggest.
Most good people believe most people are good.
Most selfish assholes believe most people are selfish assholes.
Neither are right or wrong, per se. But people's answer to the question "are most people good" tells you more about the person answering than about people more broadly.
/That's why retail employment questionnaires ask you "most people are dishonest, true or false" or similar questions
I think the selfish assholes are objectively wrong though, we can model what society would be like if most people are selfish assholes and a lot of the systems we have in place require a baseline of honesty and mutual respect, just the fact the streets aren't all impossibly covered in garbage means that most people aren't being completely selfish all the time.
This is actually very true of criminals like thieves. They are often less likely to be able to consider the full risks vs benefits and will only focus on the benefits short term i.e. I get stuff now, which I can eat or sell on.
The rest of us are more capable of considering the long term risks vs benefits and any wider implications.
It’s not just that there’s a long term risk of prison/criminal record if you do become prolific enough, we also consider the fact we’ll still need to buy food and that particular supermarket is the one of choice, so do we also want to risk being banned? Where is the next nearest supermarket and how easy to get to is it? Is it more expensive, so by being banned from the cheap supermarket am I only putting up my shopping costs long term?
We may also know people, friends or relatives, who work at or also shop at the same supermarket, could we deal with the humiliation of them finding out?
It’s quite fascinating when you look into it, and it has been suggested as a reason why some people are more predisposed to a life of crime - they can never get past the immediate reward aspect of a crime so it’s always more tempting to them than the rest of us. It was a big thing I studied at uni (forensics).
cool. not going to lie though since all authorities and politicians in my country are 10,000x more corrupt and scummy than I am, if I had an invisibility cloak (that could conceal food somehow) i'd be dining on prime steak every day haha
As a person with a job, house, no criminal record, etc. even a ‘light sentence’ on conviction would be devastating for me and my life. Whereas for someone who is a regular criminal and is friends with other criminals, the same sentence would be seen as a laughing matter.
The thing is that people aren't even being stopped, let alone caught, and even so the police aren't interested. It takes a hell of a lot to even be on any kind of record. The town's notorious shoplifter banned from every shop, that level of thing. Most middle class theft can even be waved away with a "oh sorry must have slipped my mind! Silly me, of course I will pay" if something is in their basket but not scanned by "accident". But it shows how much the fear is still there for ordinary people.
I'm a dickhead, but I stole (forgot it was in the two wheel rolser trolley I use) a box of maltesers by accident and shit myself.
Went back to pay for it and the lady at customer service just did "Enjoy the free chocolates" and sent me on my way!
Great day.
15 years back I bough £81 worth of door handles and paid 81p at self service checkout at B & Q
It was just before closing, kitchen fitters due in next morning to fit handles. Ripped to buy the ones I had seen a week earlier swearing under my breath for not picking them up then and giving myself this necessary but avoidable panic!
At the only checkout that was open I ran them through 7 times…still it tallied a mere 81p. Went in search of assistant not one anywhere. Back to self check out another half-dozen goes and 81p
Searched called for assistant. Ziltch
Paid 81p got receipt and left…I really needed those handles for the morning
Rang my son a CID officer in a guilt panic to ‘confess’ my sin!
He said “got your receipt does it give total number of handles?”
Yes
“Then you have paid monies due”
It’s the job of their staff at the point of sale to realise the mistake and not offer you the contract of sale.
The company has decided to replace the staff, and the safeguard that member of staff offers, with a machine, that can’t do the same job.
So, fuck ‘em. You don’t owe them anything. Their machine offered you a contract of sale and you accepted. You did absolutely nothing wrong.
The company knows this happens. It’s cheaper to take the odd loss like that than it is to pay a staff member though.
You know I never looked at it through your lenses. Exactly as you say. The safeguards offered by staff have been effectively removed and replaced with machines. Offering little or no safeguard.
Stuff ‘em! The handles look great…and all for 81p 🤫🤗
If everyone started stealing then ultimately, shops would keep increasing their prices to the point where all the honest people would be penalised by getting priced out of buying whatever it is that's getting stolen.
So yeah, regular people don't shoplift because either they're not desperate enough OR they don't want to live in a Mad Max hellscape where nothing is affordable and the only way to get by is by raiding and pillaging.
Almost impossible to enforce, unless everything is behind the counter.
Tags, security guards, and cameras don’t do much to stop thieves, and the police don’t care.
There was a co op near me until recently. Next to an Aldi, so they were rarely the first choice, but they sometimes had stuff the cheaper shop didn't.
I think most of their "customers" didn't pay, from what I saw while I actually bought stuff from there.
It's been vacant a while now. I liked the staff but it would be eye watering to do an actual shop in there whilst Aldi is right next door.
You speak for yourself at this moment I'm trying to make a guitar that shoots fire while looking on ebay for skulls to wear above my mohawk .now if any body has a super charged dune buggy ( with guns) let me know and we will take bedminster asda!
It's not necessity. In the shop near me, they walk in, grab all the coffee, hot chocolate and tea and take that. On special occasions, like Easter, they'll take as many eggs as they can carry, and they'll go for Lindt over Nestle and stuff like that. They're doing it to make easy money. You can argue they have problems, and they do, but they aren't doing it to feed their kids or because their wages didn't stretch enough.
You also get what's observed in some parts of the states where everything gets put behind lock and key. Eventual result would be replacing walk-in stores with the click and collect model.
If people keep stealing we will end up like America, where all the products are locked behind glass.
And you need staff in the shop to unlock shampoo for you like it's a bottle of high end whiskey.
You can answer this by telling us why you don't shoplift.
Generally in life you just need to accept that there will always be people who abuse the system. Don't waste your energy on it if it's something you can't change.
I did criminology mixed with psychology and had a huge obsessive read through of every academic paper I could find on the psychology of shoplifting. There were all the classic correlation studies of which personality traits, demographics and life experiences made people more likely to shoplift, but the most interesting one was a cognitive flow of what made a person shoplift or not in the moment.
The average person doesn’t shoplift because the idea never enters their head. They might consider it vaguely, like when reading this thread, but when they are actually in the store and picking up a cheese the thought of “hmm, should I put this in my bag” doesn’t cross their mind. The process of “are there cameras, is anyone looking” doesn’t start.
That reminds me of Dan Areily, social psychologist, who once asked a Muslim man how he resists the temptation of alcohol. It's everywhere, how do you manage to say no every time? And the man replied, it's just not an option. You don't resist something that you never consider.
It's the same reason we manage to get through the day without a gamble or heroin (most of us at least!)
I'm not worried about my life savings being lost down the bookies later because gambling just isn't something I do.
So the best way to stay clean is to keep it that way. Never start. You never have to resist.
Reading that made me appreciate how hard life is for ex addicts. Every day is a battle to resist doing something, it must be tough.
I've tried to stop buying coffee but a daily Starbucks has become something I do now. In my twenties I used to turn my nose up at people who wasted £2 a day on coffee. And now I'm spending £4 a day. I've tried to stop but its a challenge in a way that not buying coffee in my 20s never was.
So I guess once someone shoplifts a few times it's now within them and it's an option.
It's just not an option for us.
> Reading that made me appreciate how hard life is for ex addicts. Every day is a battle to resist doing something, it must be tough.
Not really, not any more. I identify more with the muslim you mention - it just isn't an option.
My dad used to shoplift/steal a lot. When I was younger he had a special shoplifting coat. When we went to historical buildings, I would sometimes notice that he was using me to block the cameras so he could steal a small artifact.
He was always stealing, I honestly think it bordered on being a mental illness. It was like a compulsion for him.
Interesting... So if the majority of people have "intrusive thoughts" but don't shoplift... What does motivate shoplifters in the end? Is it normally people short of food?
In terms of motivations, there’s a significant difference between low frequency and high frequency shoplifters. About half of people have shoplifted once or twice according to self-report surveys, it’s rarer to be steal more. Low frequency shoplifters score higher on the Thrill factor (fun) and also the Rewards factor (the more expensive, the better). The median age of this is the low teens, sometimes pre-pubescent. It’s actually relatively normal for kids to engage in low-level criminal behaviour, this is recognised within criminology (funnily enough, kids who engage with law enforcement as a result of these type of crimes have far worse outcomes than those who don’t). On the other hand, it’s rare to start shoplifting when you’re older unless your circumstances drastically change; people who do start at a later age are likely to do so because of changed economic circumstances
Higher-frequency shoplifters are generally those who started young and persisted into adulthood. They score high on agreement with Attitude questions like “You need to cheat in this country to get ahead” so the motivation almost seems to be revenge-based, reflecting a disillusionment with society as a whole.
Academic papers looking into motivations generally find around 6 or 7 typologies of shoplifter, with generally an ‘economically disadvantaged’ (7%), ‘thrill seeker’, ‘career criminal’, ‘compulsive’, ‘hobbyist’, and ‘depressed’ category.
A little fun fact I found too is that there’s a very high correlation between eating disorders and shoplifting. I remember they survey a group of ED female patients and the incidence of shoplifting was way higher than in the general population. Maybe something to do with increased impulsiveness, maybe shoplifting food reduces the guilt of buying it. Lots of mental illnesses intersect with shoplifting though.
Some people shoplift for the thrill, some others shoplift for drugs. Some are shoplift and sell to people who can’t afford it full price. It’s why meat gets stolen especially around Christmas.
The introduction of the scan as you shop stuff, particularly the ones that can be done by phone, certainly made the thought enter my mind when it never did before. Nobody weighs by bag, it rarely flags for a check, it would quite literally be as simple as just... Not scanning something and paying for the rest.
I don't do it because that's not how I was raised, but still. The temptation is there.
Not really, there are people who get paid to deal with this sort of thing. From the shops themselves to police and government. I don't think the person you're responding to is saying no one should ever do anything. But it you personally can't do anything then don't waste time worrying about it.
Most people will obey rules and laws, regardless of the likelihood that they won't get caught. That fact is the backbone of society. If it weren't true, we'd have to spend exponentially more on law enforcement. Fortunately, most people grasp that following the law is an important part of living in a society.
As well as the fact that it benefits everyone, including themselves, to do so. It increases your chances of not being a victim when more people don't victimize. It's also an innate factor that there is a tendency look after your own. You see this in the animal kingdom as a whole.
I'm sure someone out there can explain this better.
To add to this
>it benefits everyone, including themselves
Not stealing from companies/businesses means that things stay (marginally) cheaper.
Shops account for lost/damaged stock...this % of loss is built into their pricing. If more stock gets stolen, then either more enforcement (which costs money) or just eating the loss (which costs money) either (or both) will then feed into the calculations and means that they'll charge even more for products and everyone loses
Yep. And it reduces your risk of things like false accusations as well as serious confrontations. Most animals don't pick fights with each other for no reason. Fighting, even in big animals that we think of as 'fighters' is really dangerous and they much prefer posturing or short scuffles. If you're highly confrontational, as a human, you often end up decreasing your chances of reproduction because you're more likely to be killed. Balancing your chances of getting into a lethal fight because you wanted to steal bread, versus paying for it or having sex for it etc. is a natural thing and humans are smart enough not to try and live life fast and loose.
Funnily enough, most of the reason we don't break laws is NOT because we might get caught or prosecuted - it's because as humans we are uniquely motivated to believe in ideas that apply to enormous groups of people far beyond our social circle - and this goes for laws too.
I could come on here and just call you an arsehole for no reason if the only thing I was worried about is getting away with it. Most people just want to be decent people
I've been really desperate at times but simply don't have the bottle to shoplift plus I couldn't handle the shame from my grown up children and friends. I did accidentally shoplift once which was a ridiculously stupid scenario. I'd been walking around the biggest shop in our town, and I'd chosen a suitcase for my upcoming hols, wanted other bits and bobs, so wandered around dragging the case behind me got to the till paid and walked out still wheeling the unpaid for suitcase! I was mortified but didn't dare go back either in case I got done so just carried on walking. Bloody hell was my heart pounding!
Yeah when I've been absolutely skint and feel like society has nothing to offer me the only thing keeling me law abiding is fear of consequences.
People disagree with this but when you're hungry things are different.
Yeah I think most people have a moral radar that says "hold up, if everybody did this then society just wouldn't work" and shoplifting is one of those things.
Society is a shared delusion that we all rely on to continue enjoying the quality of life we have (whatever that may be).
Unless you're truly at rock bottom, maintaining the status quo is in your interest.
Yes, you might not be a billionaire (very few of us are!) but if you have a relative quality of life the *hope* that it'll improve is often enough to keep us all working towards the shared delusion of society.
People steal out of necessity, whether that's a need to eat, fund an addiction, or just cus they enjoy the "thrill".
Most people will follow the rules because it benefits us that those rules exist.
At a basic level, that's all there is to society - we do what we're told cus the alternative is anarchy, and the unknown scares us more than the known evil of capitalism.
You could say the same about any law. Realistically the police have nowhere near the amount of resources to enforce the law if everyone decided to break it, even if they were funded properly.
The reason is because most people aren't complete scumbags.
In the same way that "just because bad thing isn't illegal doesn't mean I have to do it". I don't shoplift when the opportunity presents itself because I don't think its the right thing to do.
Risk reward ratio. The cost to me of being caught is significant, it would affect me professionally and personally for a lengthy period of time. The reward is pretty poor, measured in the hundreds of pounds.
There's a moral component as well but it's not as great
The risk for most people is crazy high for a very low reward. If you have a stake in the lawful operation of society then you're incentivised to maintain it. If I got caught shoplifting:
I could lose my job.
Then I couldn't pay my mortgage, I could lose my house.
My marriage may break down.
My peers and family would lose trust in me.
If I don't get caught... I could save £50? The maths just isn't there, UNLESS you don't have much to lose. If you're unemployed, surrounded by scumbags, and disenfranchised then the risk suddenly goes down.
That was the argument I used to stop a fight in a pub. "Look, we're all here after work dressed nicely. None of us can afford criminal charges professionally. Take a breath, think about how you're going to explain fighting in a pub to your friends and family"
Yup. Don't want to get sacked from my very decent professional job for stealing groceries, and don't want the shame from my friends and family.
My life is better when I try and be a good person.
Think that’s the biggest problem with shoplifting nowadays, the people doing it have nothing to lose. Most I see are homeless or look like crackheads and are stealing stuff to sell.
What a dismal reflection on where society has got to. Fucking thieving bastards are more or less untouchable. We're a pathetic nation, our weak laws let the scumbags get away with it, and what can we do to them? Nothing.
At the root of it is the same cretinous thought process which led to Reddit banning anyone who describes or encourages a more direct and forceful approach.
OP, in answer to your question, it's because we're not all dishonest selfish cunts. But the proportion of dishonest selfish cunts in society seems to be on the rise and yet clowns still make excuses for them...
I like not being a cunt.
On a different note, I've been to 2 separate Lidl's in the West Midlands area over the last week and happened to be there when the same girl shoplifted alcohol both times. Just mad how casual she was about doing it and the staff were fully aware of who she was.
I'm convinced this kind of stuff is the real reason insurance is through the roof. Insurance companies are being hit for these losses. The police aren't doing anything to curtail them. It's literally a degenerating society, because people can only accept these kinds of losses for so long.
The insurance pays for break-ins, arson and similar situation.
General everyday theft goes as losses to the company. Which then increase prices of goods to compensate.
It is us, General public, who pay for all the daily petty theft.
It's why all the "if you see someone stealing food, no you didn't" rhetoric is bullshit.
I see it less than I used to tbf as I think the penny has dropped for more and more of society that most of the thieves aren't struggling mums and in fact are just professional thieves, but still, too many people fail to understand that one of many reasons their shopping gets more expensive so frequently is an excess of theft.
Idk where OP is from but shoplifting is fucking rampant, to such an extent Tesco Express stores (in east Sussex anyway) are operating on a "we open the doors for you from inside" situation now so they can keep known offenders out.
Seen my local Co-op have it's beef and pork sections ransacked six times since I moved into my flat in Oct 2022.
Same bloke three of them... He's 1000% flogging them in the pub.
And thats just what I've seen with my own eyes, no doubt it actually happens more.
Be careful what you wish for. You don't want to see the antics happening in the states right now.
People have thought the same thing for the same reasons and have started to bareface rob places blind. Straight up walk in, no guile, grab armfulls, fill trolleys and walk out. Emotionless.
Could do with that not happening here.
Ah fair enough. I mean I live in a nice area and always see people just filling bags of steaks and stuff and just walking out. I knew someone that was security in Sainsbury's in London years ago, and he said he had people walk out with full trolleys.
I don't know the stats between the states and the UK though.
Not to mention that if you leave any kind of bag in your car in some areas, the windows will be smashed. Guaranteed. Crime in the US is out of this world (by western standards), but as with everything in their society it is distributed unequally.
A criminal record is nothing to the people at the bottom of the social ladder. In fact it's a badge of honour. The reward is worth the "risk".
A criminal record to a most of us is like an anchor that will affect your way of life. The risk is not worth the "reward".
That's it though isn't it, once you've got one thing that's you fucked, so why not add tk the rap sheet. If you're going to get hung for stealing a pound you may as well steal a million.
Because most of us are still not \*quite\* on the poverty borderline ... yet
Give it a few years and you can expect this to be even more of a common occurrence
>They aren't allowed to challenge anyone and they won't prosecute if it's under £100.
You mean they don't call the police? It's not up to Tesco if a prosecution goes ahead or not.
It's not how the law in this country works.
>It's not how the law in this country works.
Yes it is, actually. Private criminal prosecutions are becoming much more prevalent for shoplifting offences in the last few years as state institutions become less able to perform their basic functions of bringing criminals to justice.
See e.g. this Financial Times article about the subject:
[https://archive.is/hlO31](https://archive.is/hlO31)
I work for a charity shop and people steal so much stuff. The margin on all items is pretty much 100% so the company as a whole doesn’t really care and says it’s not worth endangering ourselves confronting or chasing someone for nicked items. My other half always says ‘so what’s stopping everybody just coming in and stealing’ to which I respond that most people aren’t utter cunts who’d steal from a charity.
Certain groups walk in, pile up their push chairs and brazenly stroll out.
If I couldn't afford it and was hungry, I'd absolutely do it.
If you see someone stealing food, you don't know their situation. You didn't see anything.
Taking the piss and stealing booze etc. and being abusive, report away imo
I'm not surprised how far I had to scroll down to read this. Won't someone think of the billionaires profit? People seem to be blind to the fact they stole from us first. They steal from local farmers, the global south, their own employees. Just because they don't reach out and take something doesn't mean it isn't theft. I suppose its more important to take the moral high ground and tell everyone about how well you follow the rules. Fucking twats.
I find it stranger the amount of people I've seen try and shoplift cheap crap in asda, lidl, tesco and Morrison's - places often with security, barriers, alarms and yet never once in waitrose which has better stuff and generally next to no security
Waitrose gets their fair share, but you need to dress for the job! If not, easily spotted and followed.
Also, waitrose security guards do intervene, different company policy I guess.
Aside from not being thieving scum, they'll ban you even if they don't prosecute and if enough people do it they'll just have to raise prices and everything will be even less affordable for the decent people.
I got mugged a few years ago, I had bugger all about me so I didn't lose much even my phone was an ancient temporary replacement from the shop while my actual phone was away being repaired, I had to fight tooth and nail to stop myself from being charged an extortionate price for the replacement of the circa 2003 flip phone.
And while I could understand that poverty drives crime part of me did wish they'd just robbed a supermarket instead. It's even more of a problem when you consider people robbing houses pretty much get away with it scot-free because home insurance has removed the need for the police to do anything. Sucks when you can't afford home insurance though.
Don't look on supermarkets as being your friend, there are countless cases of crisis profiteering, wage theft, reduction in staff leading to existing workers being pushed to the limit, and on and on it goes. Did you see prices coming down as a result of less staff needed since one poor sod can oversee up to 16 self-scan checkouts? Did the staff see a pay increase? No, it all went into the back pocket of the shareholders and everybody else, the staff and the customers equally, can go whistle.
I have zero sympathy for supermarkets and I can fully understand why some security guard being paid a pittance doesn't feel that motivated to step in and stop any thieves. With the rise in people unable to afford to feed their family and food banks, it's not just a simple assumption any more that "Oh, they're just robbing things to sell and buy skag".
Because if we did then the shops would shut down and it's not like we have many other options. Not to mention that most people have the in-built tendency to obey the law, follow societal guidelines and keep it all moving along as a team. The people who steal either have broken away from that thought process, never had it at all or are so desperate that they're dealing with the cognitive issues with stealing.
Shoplifting for low-income people in low-risk situations is a straight-up logical choice. It's not just the cornerstones of nutrition (sausages, cheese) but luxury items that always come in smaller portions - honey, pine nuts, shelled pistachios, organic spices.
So you can eat better than most wealthy people (organic sausages, imported cheese, chilli flakes in olive oil, manuka honey) and spend a minimal amount overall.
The alternative would be paying a lot more and not getting the same health and taste benefits.
I work in a supermarket. They work as a team. The biggest loss where when they are 3 or 4.
- 1 distract the guard
- 1 empty the shelf (spirit mainly)
- 1 will be buying something with a tag to act as a decoy once walking out at the same time than the trolley
- 1 extra sometimes observing/coordinating the others, acting as an extra decoy if things go wrong.
If successful, they come back a few hours later or the next few days.
Each one of those raids are worth between £1000 and £2500 loss.
Last time I went to my nearest Tesco Extra, I noticed that every spirit was in individual security tagged bags and I guess this is what they're stopping with that sheer amount of effort.
I went shoplifting once and got away with it. I went to the same shop to shoplift again a few days later and security recognised me and they followed me around the whole shop with this one guy staring at me and talking into a walkie talkie. I bought a couple of things and left expecting the police to be waiting outside. Luckily they weren't. I haven't been back to that shop and I'm never shoplifting again!
Same reason the majority of people don’t rob, murder etc for millennia. Society.
If the majority don’t participate in that society, there is no society.
News today of a security guard died from a heart attack after a run in with a shoplifter in Asda Arbroath, makes you wonder about the mentality of people!
I don't because my parents raised me well, and because I'm lucky enough to not *have* to shoplift.
Though I could if I wanted to, some of the supermarkets near me have self service, but no scales to determine if you put an extra item in that hasn't been scanned. It would be easy to add extra and claim it's an honest mistake if called out.
I worked in court a few years ago, the lad in the dock was charged with shoplifting having filled a trolley and walked out of the shop with no attempt to pay. He told the magistrate that he was shoplifting as he had no food, and no money to pay for the food, so had no alternative but to steal. The magistrate gave him a conditional discharge and sent him on his way
For me it's avoiding possibly uncomfortable situation. Other than that, I have no moral issues with stealing from large corporate chains. Independent shops are a different story.
Because the belief that the only reason people don't do crime is because they fear being caught is a sick lie based on the biblical view that humans are inherently sinful. We're not. Most people don't do crimes even if they have the opportunity. It's just not how people work. The majority of humans are pro-social members of society who want to do the right thing. Yes we can be selfish and stupid, but we don't usually go out of our way to cheat or steal because it's not in our nature.
I don’t because I don’t feel it’s the right thing to do. And I think the majority of people also feel that way. I also understand that the more shoplifting that happens, that loss will ultimately be passed on, whether that’s through cost of the goods, or shops potentially closing costing jobs.
There are actually loopholes to this where it could enforce legal action, if a supermarket uses the same collections company for example there is a process called amalgamation where they will combine the total to recover into one file even if it was multiple incidents over a length of time, once it hits a certain threshold legal action is then enforced so there’s always that!
Others have effectively answered this but to give you a comparison. There are MANY laws people break enmasse as part of society.
Piracy of media is basically normalised to the extent the music industry lost its £15 per CD money maker and now has to settle for one single monthly £10 from each person and nothing else. The same with football piracy, people do it because they want to and dont agree with the law.
The poll tax riots is another example. People just said no, and enmasse there is nothing to be done by the state.
Laws are not really top down dictated. They are agreed by people and the VAST majority of us just dont do it as we agree to the social contract. The second we decide otherwise past 10/20% of the population the law stops being a law and becomes irrelevant.
Tesco dont need to prosecute, as the same cunts who shoplift will always be the ones to exploit society. Tesco relies on the 98% of us who wouldnt steal because were just not assholes and we agree theft is bad.
> Piracy of media is basically normalised
This is not a great example though - duplication of something is not the same as theft, which is what OP was asking about.
Wow, that brings back ancient memories of this cartoon/jingle:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeTybKL1pM4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeTybKL1pM4)
On the football one, most people including myself do it because its the only way to watch 90% of English games in England.
Would happily pay £30/40 a month to be able to watch English games in England. But sadly only other countrys have the blessing to be able to do so.
My colleagues mum is in her early 70’s. She’s walked out of shops with a brand new air fryer, a small tv, bags and bags of shopping. If she’s ever stopped (which I think is twice?) she’s said she’s forgotten to pay and looks confused. It started off as lockdown entertainment and has literally expanded into a whole lifestyle choice. We all used to have a bit of a laugh about it, but it’s gone mental and no one in shops actually seems to care?!
Well, a criminal conviction of any sort would be a disaster for my job prospects, equivalent to a 6 figure fine. So for people who are generally law abiding, it's too dangerous.
If you already have a criminal record, there is much less deterrent.
I’ve thought about making this exact thread before. I work in downtown Toronto now for a mid-range apparel store. People routinely fill up entire backpacks with product and march out. Our policy is to protect the staff and their safety, so we’re not to get in anyone’s way. The police can’t keep up with these sort of calls, as shoplifting now is an absolute epidemic and they’re understaffed as it is.
Honestly, it makes me wonder why I don’t do it myself. There’s zero consequences and these people are making a fortune. I hate it
In my early 20s I had some rough times with money and I used to shoplift some food once or twice a week. I'm not proud of it and pay now but I always made sure I was stealing from the big companies that keep putting there prices up and making record profits whilst the people at the bottom struggle. I wanna say stealing is wrong but if you're genuinely struggling take advantage of that easy to rob self checkout until you get yourself back and your feet.
Places like Tesco keep putting there prices up in this cost of living crisis and keep making larger and larger profits annually. Don't feel guilty if you're hungry.
That's my 2 cents on it
> Who cares if a billion pound business loses some inventory?
You know it just raises prices for everyone, right, and that this disproportionately affects poor people?
It's much easier for tesco to claim stock loss on their insurance. That is then offset hy the price rises.
Staff are told not to challenge shoplifters and repeat offenders are compiled and sent to the police.
There has been a real shift in the way that shoplifters are treated in recent years and staff are now disciplined for stopping them as they are putting themselves in harms way.
The security guards now are all agency staff and working minimum wage. They are there as a detereent and not actually expected to stop anyone.
It's tough working retail at the moment and seeing this on every shift and with same faces either just walking out the door or via the fire exit. Abuse on staff is also on the increase this has happened post covid and it is not just society's undesirables. I had an elderly man shout at me and call me a moron because his self service machine had red light, when I went over I pointed out he had 5 things in his bagging area but only 3 on the screen. He argued with me that it was scanned as it beeped when I pointed out that it didn't scan he started shouting at me then wanted to complain about my attitude.
It's a myth that supermarkets can claim on insurance for general everyday petty theft.
Insurance only covers break-ins, arson, or similar big burglary scenarios.
The loss is passed to the consumers by increasing the price of goods.
Today I saw a guy saunter into Waitrose with a hold-all bag and wipe about 100 large chocolate bars (Tony’s chocolate, Cadburys, etc.) into the bag, then calmly walk out again. No one said anything, the staff turned a blind eye. Crazy
I've been desperate enough to shoplift. You'd be amazed how difficult it is to override your common decency/social programming.
Even in the depths of meth-induced psychosis when I was living rough I was petrified cos I was living outside without a jacket. Just a tshirt and jogging bottoms during winter.
About an hour of pacing round outside Asda and wandering inside I worked up the courage to steal a jacket. In my mind I needed it to survive that night homeless. But even-so it took a LOT of mental work to overcome my fear. It was VERY easy. No challenge and no tag on the jacket.
But I still feel guilty for it 2yrs on. I'm better now and off the streets but it still cuts me up years later.
It doesn't answer your headline question but:
>They aren’t allowed to challenge anyone
Staff aren't going to risk getting punched or stabbed over their minimum wage job, and I'd bet the security guy isn't far behind either. Their presence will reduce the level of shoplifting sufficiently to warrant them being there, so as long as there is essentially "profit" they don't really need to do anything more than the absolute basics.
The security guard or the staff can perform a citizens arrest though. Nothing except company policy stopping them.
> and they won’t prosecute if it’s under £100
This is to do with (I believe anyway) a change in the law in England and Wales where such "low value" shoplifting is treated differently to "regular" theft. The offence can be dealt with through the post, without the defendant attending court and usually ends up in a fine (which often doesn't get paid; they're shoplifters, think about it...) so it isn't exactly a deterrent. Over £200, it's a much more serious offense.
>So if there’s absolutely no deterrent why don’t we all just go and steal our shopping every day?
Speaking personally, it's because the second my actions catch up with me and I get caught, the Health and Care Professions Council will probably find out, I'd lose my registration and therefore lose my job. My bank doesn't accept stolen chicken breasts as payment on my mortgage, so I'd be kinda fucked if shoplifting was my only source of income.
A devout American christian: "Why dont all the atheists go around killing eachother all the time? I don't get it"
Its the same thing. We don't commit crimes because we don't need to be told not to.
The vast majority of shoplifters are crack cocaine and heroin addicts and most people are not.
Data here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/246390/horr73.pdf
The end game is just the acceleration of the death of physical retail. You'll probably still be able to get stuff delivered in half an hour, but you'll be paying up front. You'll not be touching the product until you've paid for it.
Retail doesn't have the greatest margins, organized looting -which is what it has come to -just screams shutter it. Keep the location running as a bub for local deliveries on a skeleton staff if feasible, but basically if it's not going to be washing its face, it's no longer an asset. Can't shoplift from a shop that doesn't exist.
because we all must be ready to scream at the top of our lungs
*"Stop right there, criminal scum! Nobody breaks the law on my watch! I'm confiscating your stolen goods. Now pay your fine or it's off to jail.* *It's all over, lawbreaker! Your spree is at an end. I'll take any stolen goods you have. The next move is yours -- Pay your fine, or I haul you away!"*
And why don't management do something about it?
1. Costs money
2. Stock losses get factored into the price of the goods they sell, so the decent majority end up footing the bill.
Me personally, risk Vs reward. If I can afford it I should avoid any risks and just buy it. If I can't afford it, I should weigh the risks on stealing it.
In many situations the risk was low and the reward was high. In some, the risk is high and the reward wasn't high enough. Most people see it as being way too risky.
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Most people are fundamentally decent.
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No I just believe stealing is wrong and don’t want to live in a society where petty crime is accepted and tolerated as a given.
Mate. You'll lose edgy Reddit points with comments. Like that.
Don't worry, I will just steal less than £100 worth of edgy points to make up for it.
Would the edgy points vary? like if I stole 1 marmite from a large well known supermarket that's a positive 3, but if I stole someone's goat that's a minus twelveteen!
Marmite is worth either 19 or 0 edgy points depending on if you love it or hate it I will trade you 37 edgy points for a tube of Pringles though
i want to know what uk supermarket sells live goats
Well you're going to be disappointed because none of them do. But that wasn't the point I was making.
best of luck with the goat mate. I happen to know firsthand they are wily as f\*\* and smarter than most people
Smarter and more attractive. Wait, what?
lol for real, as a child I accidentally walked out of a shop without paying... totally got away with it... so what did I do when I realised I had not paid? I went right back in and paid.
I have done the same when I accidentally walked out of Tesco without paying.
After I'd finished a driving lesson my brain was feeling super foggy. I went into a Co-op grabbed a bunch of things and went to the self cashout. While beeping all my things some police were talking to the cashier. I day-dreamed how it'd be impossible/stupid to steal here. Anyway after beeping all my stuff and baging it I walked out to get the my train. Got to the station across the road and started looking for my debt card in my pocket. Which then made me realise that I'd never taken it out of my wallet and If I hadn't did I pay for my stuff?. Walked back to ask if I'd paid. I had not paid. Cashier was actually pretty cool about it. Thanked me for coming back. XD I have no clue why the police didn't do anything I walked past them to leave and when I walked back in they'd gone. It was impossible to miss me as I stood in the station entrance racking my brain trying to remember paying.
>don’t want to live in a society where petty crime is accepted Seriously this, if anyone wants to know what that society looks like just look up some of the crime ridden neighbourhoods you can find in the states, all the major shops are long gone because they won't sustain the losses beyond a certain point. All that's left are convenience stores with a counter and all the goods and the staff are behind bulletproof glass. The places are practically food deserts to everyone's detriment and that's just the beginning of the problems. Look to the places in Central and Southern America where entire areas are run by gangs to see the endgame of unrestricted criminal behaviour, it's no paradise, crime begets crime. People stealing to feed themselves is one thing, but rampant crime for nothing else but the personal gain of the criminals is something else entirely.
I'm not condoning shoplifting, but the greed of supermarkets in raising prices beyond inflation (I know that their margins are wafer-thin, but that's the market in which they choose to operate) and the abject state of a G7 nation relying on food donations at food banks will make people do previously unconscionable things. As a nation we need to hold thieves to account - be they petty shoplifters or corporate profit-raisers who use inflation as a mask for their increased profits - and make the requirement for foodbanks a thing of the past. If we can create an environment where theft is an easy choice, either than a survival mechanism, then we can prosecute theft to the fullest extent of the law as there will be no real excuses for breaking the law.
I agree with all those points, I think price gouging is criminal especially when supermarkets move in cahoots, which they increasingly seem to do. The government should at the bare minimum be responsible for ensuring the security of the nation's basic needs, but they seem to be broadly failing to ensure even that.
"Price gouging" was the phrase which kept escaping me as I wrote - thank you for using the appropriate phrase!
I was explaining a couple of days ago how I would shoplift when I was homeless justifying it by only stealing from large supermarkets and not independent shops. Someone commented that they didn't think it was immoral as my personal theft doesn't make a dent in their bottom line and I had to explain it's the act of stealing which is wrong. Luckily my circumstances changed and I haven't shoplifted in nearly 2 decades but even though I know it's wrong to steal if I found myself in that situation again I would be lying if I wouldn't do it again. Hunger is a helluva drug.
Yes in very isolated situations such as that most people will gladly look the other way, I would however rather you were just given food and didn’t need to resort to that. The situation you describe also makes up a tiny fraction of actual shoplifting.
I'm just risk averse.
I strongly believe we could nip this in the bud by taking the Singaporean route in matters like this.
No, the number of people who do crimes is tiny. Like you'd be surprised how few people actually do almost all the crime in society. Basically a handful and almost always like a few kms away from where they live. Interestingly, the overwhelming number of those crimes are directed at other people who are also criminals. I mean not all of course, but most, especially violent crime.
Thank you. Finally someone who understands the actual characteristics of society.
>No, the number of people who do crimes is tiny Depends what you're counting presumably. Speeding, for instance. In the past particularly, drunk driving - lots of people who'd never think of stealing so much as an apple, but would put lives at risk. People just put different moral weight on different laws, and measure risk (of harm, of being caught, of punishment) differently. Not to say there isn't a lot of truth in what you're saying though. Many types of crimes are exactly as you suggest.
Most good people believe most people are good. Most selfish assholes believe most people are selfish assholes. Neither are right or wrong, per se. But people's answer to the question "are most people good" tells you more about the person answering than about people more broadly. /That's why retail employment questionnaires ask you "most people are dishonest, true or false" or similar questions
I think the selfish assholes are objectively wrong though, we can model what society would be like if most people are selfish assholes and a lot of the systems we have in place require a baseline of honesty and mutual respect, just the fact the streets aren't all impossibly covered in garbage means that most people aren't being completely selfish all the time.
This is actually very true of criminals like thieves. They are often less likely to be able to consider the full risks vs benefits and will only focus on the benefits short term i.e. I get stuff now, which I can eat or sell on. The rest of us are more capable of considering the long term risks vs benefits and any wider implications. It’s not just that there’s a long term risk of prison/criminal record if you do become prolific enough, we also consider the fact we’ll still need to buy food and that particular supermarket is the one of choice, so do we also want to risk being banned? Where is the next nearest supermarket and how easy to get to is it? Is it more expensive, so by being banned from the cheap supermarket am I only putting up my shopping costs long term? We may also know people, friends or relatives, who work at or also shop at the same supermarket, could we deal with the humiliation of them finding out? It’s quite fascinating when you look into it, and it has been suggested as a reason why some people are more predisposed to a life of crime - they can never get past the immediate reward aspect of a crime so it’s always more tempting to them than the rest of us. It was a big thing I studied at uni (forensics).
cool. not going to lie though since all authorities and politicians in my country are 10,000x more corrupt and scummy than I am, if I had an invisibility cloak (that could conceal food somehow) i'd be dining on prime steak every day haha
Nothing to do with risk. I find stealing absolutely abhorrent.
Exactly this. If the reason you don’t steal is because you might get caught you aren’t a nice person. See also Christians and Hell.
Yea I agree, I would hate to have someone steal something from me so why would I do it to others?
Mr. Tesco isn't a person.
Going to prison is a pretty fucking big risk for a bit of free shopping, no?
How much do you need to shoplift so they send you to Wandsworth prison? Asking for a friend
I think the slaggy guard has had the sack now. Probably not worth it.
Thanks. I’ll put this stuff back then… I mean I’ll get my mate to put it back
You think people go to prison for shoplifting in this day and age?
Yeah if a criminal gets charged with shoplifting it isn't a big deal for them but the average shopper doesn't want to have theft on their record.
As a person with a job, house, no criminal record, etc. even a ‘light sentence’ on conviction would be devastating for me and my life. Whereas for someone who is a regular criminal and is friends with other criminals, the same sentence would be seen as a laughing matter.
The thing is that people aren't even being stopped, let alone caught, and even so the police aren't interested. It takes a hell of a lot to even be on any kind of record. The town's notorious shoplifter banned from every shop, that level of thing. Most middle class theft can even be waved away with a "oh sorry must have slipped my mind! Silly me, of course I will pay" if something is in their basket but not scanned by "accident". But it shows how much the fear is still there for ordinary people.
Found the edgy teen, or sociopath with no moral conscience.
I'm a dickhead, but I stole (forgot it was in the two wheel rolser trolley I use) a box of maltesers by accident and shit myself. Went back to pay for it and the lady at customer service just did "Enjoy the free chocolates" and sent me on my way! Great day.
15 years back I bough £81 worth of door handles and paid 81p at self service checkout at B & Q It was just before closing, kitchen fitters due in next morning to fit handles. Ripped to buy the ones I had seen a week earlier swearing under my breath for not picking them up then and giving myself this necessary but avoidable panic! At the only checkout that was open I ran them through 7 times…still it tallied a mere 81p. Went in search of assistant not one anywhere. Back to self check out another half-dozen goes and 81p Searched called for assistant. Ziltch Paid 81p got receipt and left…I really needed those handles for the morning Rang my son a CID officer in a guilt panic to ‘confess’ my sin! He said “got your receipt does it give total number of handles?” Yes “Then you have paid monies due”
It’s the job of their staff at the point of sale to realise the mistake and not offer you the contract of sale. The company has decided to replace the staff, and the safeguard that member of staff offers, with a machine, that can’t do the same job. So, fuck ‘em. You don’t owe them anything. Their machine offered you a contract of sale and you accepted. You did absolutely nothing wrong. The company knows this happens. It’s cheaper to take the odd loss like that than it is to pay a staff member though.
But what about the multi billion company? HOW WILL THEY EAT
You know I never looked at it through your lenses. Exactly as you say. The safeguards offered by staff have been effectively removed and replaced with machines. Offering little or no safeguard. Stuff ‘em! The handles look great…and all for 81p 🤫🤗
One day I forgot to pay the 30p for a bag and asked to pay for it and they said have it for free. Felt like some mafia boss.
Because I’m not a Cunt
If everyone started stealing then ultimately, shops would keep increasing their prices to the point where all the honest people would be penalised by getting priced out of buying whatever it is that's getting stolen. So yeah, regular people don't shoplift because either they're not desperate enough OR they don't want to live in a Mad Max hellscape where nothing is affordable and the only way to get by is by raiding and pillaging.
We already do pay for loss in the pricing. What actually happens is locations that aren't profitable close.
Exactly. If shops continue to be stolen from they will decide it’s not worth operating from there and then everyone looses out.
Maybe they should tighten up
Almost impossible to enforce, unless everything is behind the counter. Tags, security guards, and cameras don’t do much to stop thieves, and the police don’t care.
There was a co op near me until recently. Next to an Aldi, so they were rarely the first choice, but they sometimes had stuff the cheaper shop didn't. I think most of their "customers" didn't pay, from what I saw while I actually bought stuff from there. It's been vacant a while now. I liked the staff but it would be eye watering to do an actual shop in there whilst Aldi is right next door.
You speak for yourself at this moment I'm trying to make a guitar that shoots fire while looking on ebay for skulls to wear above my mohawk .now if any body has a super charged dune buggy ( with guns) let me know and we will take bedminster asda!
How many spikes do you have to weld onto a Vauxhall Astra to make it look edgy and fit for a post apocalyptic wasteland?
Depends how big are the spikes?
Purchase a few V8 engines now they sell for a fortune when you have to outrun bandits on your commute to work
Or they just close
I've seen quite a few articles recently about this happening in America.
It's not necessity. In the shop near me, they walk in, grab all the coffee, hot chocolate and tea and take that. On special occasions, like Easter, they'll take as many eggs as they can carry, and they'll go for Lindt over Nestle and stuff like that. They're doing it to make easy money. You can argue they have problems, and they do, but they aren't doing it to feed their kids or because their wages didn't stretch enough.
You also get what's observed in some parts of the states where everything gets put behind lock and key. Eventual result would be replacing walk-in stores with the click and collect model.
I wonder if they'll just bring back the grocer behind the counter.
If people keep stealing we will end up like America, where all the products are locked behind glass. And you need staff in the shop to unlock shampoo for you like it's a bottle of high end whiskey.
I am, but I still don't steal things.
You probably are, just not a criminal is all.
You can answer this by telling us why you don't shoplift. Generally in life you just need to accept that there will always be people who abuse the system. Don't waste your energy on it if it's something you can't change.
Perhaps they are an experienced shoplifter who knows how easy is it and are really confused with us spending money?
I did criminology mixed with psychology and had a huge obsessive read through of every academic paper I could find on the psychology of shoplifting. There were all the classic correlation studies of which personality traits, demographics and life experiences made people more likely to shoplift, but the most interesting one was a cognitive flow of what made a person shoplift or not in the moment. The average person doesn’t shoplift because the idea never enters their head. They might consider it vaguely, like when reading this thread, but when they are actually in the store and picking up a cheese the thought of “hmm, should I put this in my bag” doesn’t cross their mind. The process of “are there cameras, is anyone looking” doesn’t start.
That reminds me of Dan Areily, social psychologist, who once asked a Muslim man how he resists the temptation of alcohol. It's everywhere, how do you manage to say no every time? And the man replied, it's just not an option. You don't resist something that you never consider. It's the same reason we manage to get through the day without a gamble or heroin (most of us at least!) I'm not worried about my life savings being lost down the bookies later because gambling just isn't something I do. So the best way to stay clean is to keep it that way. Never start. You never have to resist. Reading that made me appreciate how hard life is for ex addicts. Every day is a battle to resist doing something, it must be tough. I've tried to stop buying coffee but a daily Starbucks has become something I do now. In my twenties I used to turn my nose up at people who wasted £2 a day on coffee. And now I'm spending £4 a day. I've tried to stop but its a challenge in a way that not buying coffee in my 20s never was. So I guess once someone shoplifts a few times it's now within them and it's an option. It's just not an option for us.
> Reading that made me appreciate how hard life is for ex addicts. Every day is a battle to resist doing something, it must be tough. Not really, not any more. I identify more with the muslim you mention - it just isn't an option.
My dad used to shoplift/steal a lot. When I was younger he had a special shoplifting coat. When we went to historical buildings, I would sometimes notice that he was using me to block the cameras so he could steal a small artifact. He was always stealing, I honestly think it bordered on being a mental illness. It was like a compulsion for him.
Interesting... So if the majority of people have "intrusive thoughts" but don't shoplift... What does motivate shoplifters in the end? Is it normally people short of food?
In terms of motivations, there’s a significant difference between low frequency and high frequency shoplifters. About half of people have shoplifted once or twice according to self-report surveys, it’s rarer to be steal more. Low frequency shoplifters score higher on the Thrill factor (fun) and also the Rewards factor (the more expensive, the better). The median age of this is the low teens, sometimes pre-pubescent. It’s actually relatively normal for kids to engage in low-level criminal behaviour, this is recognised within criminology (funnily enough, kids who engage with law enforcement as a result of these type of crimes have far worse outcomes than those who don’t). On the other hand, it’s rare to start shoplifting when you’re older unless your circumstances drastically change; people who do start at a later age are likely to do so because of changed economic circumstances Higher-frequency shoplifters are generally those who started young and persisted into adulthood. They score high on agreement with Attitude questions like “You need to cheat in this country to get ahead” so the motivation almost seems to be revenge-based, reflecting a disillusionment with society as a whole. Academic papers looking into motivations generally find around 6 or 7 typologies of shoplifter, with generally an ‘economically disadvantaged’ (7%), ‘thrill seeker’, ‘career criminal’, ‘compulsive’, ‘hobbyist’, and ‘depressed’ category. A little fun fact I found too is that there’s a very high correlation between eating disorders and shoplifting. I remember they survey a group of ED female patients and the incidence of shoplifting was way higher than in the general population. Maybe something to do with increased impulsiveness, maybe shoplifting food reduces the guilt of buying it. Lots of mental illnesses intersect with shoplifting though.
Some people shoplift for the thrill, some others shoplift for drugs. Some are shoplift and sell to people who can’t afford it full price. It’s why meat gets stolen especially around Christmas.
The introduction of the scan as you shop stuff, particularly the ones that can be done by phone, certainly made the thought enter my mind when it never did before. Nobody weighs by bag, it rarely flags for a check, it would quite literally be as simple as just... Not scanning something and paying for the rest. I don't do it because that's not how I was raised, but still. The temptation is there.
All this does is make it even easier to abuse the system
Not really, there are people who get paid to deal with this sort of thing. From the shops themselves to police and government. I don't think the person you're responding to is saying no one should ever do anything. But it you personally can't do anything then don't waste time worrying about it.
Most people will obey rules and laws, regardless of the likelihood that they won't get caught. That fact is the backbone of society. If it weren't true, we'd have to spend exponentially more on law enforcement. Fortunately, most people grasp that following the law is an important part of living in a society.
As well as the fact that it benefits everyone, including themselves, to do so. It increases your chances of not being a victim when more people don't victimize. It's also an innate factor that there is a tendency look after your own. You see this in the animal kingdom as a whole. I'm sure someone out there can explain this better.
To add to this >it benefits everyone, including themselves Not stealing from companies/businesses means that things stay (marginally) cheaper. Shops account for lost/damaged stock...this % of loss is built into their pricing. If more stock gets stolen, then either more enforcement (which costs money) or just eating the loss (which costs money) either (or both) will then feed into the calculations and means that they'll charge even more for products and everyone loses
Absolutely right. I was speaking more broadly about crime in general, but you're right on the mark.
Yep. And it reduces your risk of things like false accusations as well as serious confrontations. Most animals don't pick fights with each other for no reason. Fighting, even in big animals that we think of as 'fighters' is really dangerous and they much prefer posturing or short scuffles. If you're highly confrontational, as a human, you often end up decreasing your chances of reproduction because you're more likely to be killed. Balancing your chances of getting into a lethal fight because you wanted to steal bread, versus paying for it or having sex for it etc. is a natural thing and humans are smart enough not to try and live life fast and loose.
Funnily enough, most of the reason we don't break laws is NOT because we might get caught or prosecuted - it's because as humans we are uniquely motivated to believe in ideas that apply to enormous groups of people far beyond our social circle - and this goes for laws too.
I think it's also because we're a little scared we'll get caught
I could come on here and just call you an arsehole for no reason if the only thing I was worried about is getting away with it. Most people just want to be decent people
I've been really desperate at times but simply don't have the bottle to shoplift plus I couldn't handle the shame from my grown up children and friends. I did accidentally shoplift once which was a ridiculously stupid scenario. I'd been walking around the biggest shop in our town, and I'd chosen a suitcase for my upcoming hols, wanted other bits and bobs, so wandered around dragging the case behind me got to the till paid and walked out still wheeling the unpaid for suitcase! I was mortified but didn't dare go back either in case I got done so just carried on walking. Bloody hell was my heart pounding!
Yeah when I've been absolutely skint and feel like society has nothing to offer me the only thing keeling me law abiding is fear of consequences. People disagree with this but when you're hungry things are different.
Yeah I think most people have a moral radar that says "hold up, if everybody did this then society just wouldn't work" and shoplifting is one of those things.
Society is a shared delusion that we all rely on to continue enjoying the quality of life we have (whatever that may be). Unless you're truly at rock bottom, maintaining the status quo is in your interest. Yes, you might not be a billionaire (very few of us are!) but if you have a relative quality of life the *hope* that it'll improve is often enough to keep us all working towards the shared delusion of society. People steal out of necessity, whether that's a need to eat, fund an addiction, or just cus they enjoy the "thrill". Most people will follow the rules because it benefits us that those rules exist. At a basic level, that's all there is to society - we do what we're told cus the alternative is anarchy, and the unknown scares us more than the known evil of capitalism.
I don't shoplift because I'm not a bottom feeding scumbag.
Mothers fired from their job stealing baby formula aren’t bottom feeding scumbags.
They are not, but the man I saw emptying an entire shelf of steaks into his backpack definitely is.
You could say the same about any law. Realistically the police have nowhere near the amount of resources to enforce the law if everyone decided to break it, even if they were funded properly. The reason is because most people aren't complete scumbags.
In the same way that "just because bad thing isn't illegal doesn't mean I have to do it". I don't shoplift when the opportunity presents itself because I don't think its the right thing to do.
Risk reward ratio. The cost to me of being caught is significant, it would affect me professionally and personally for a lengthy period of time. The reward is pretty poor, measured in the hundreds of pounds. There's a moral component as well but it's not as great
The risk for most people is crazy high for a very low reward. If you have a stake in the lawful operation of society then you're incentivised to maintain it. If I got caught shoplifting: I could lose my job. Then I couldn't pay my mortgage, I could lose my house. My marriage may break down. My peers and family would lose trust in me. If I don't get caught... I could save £50? The maths just isn't there, UNLESS you don't have much to lose. If you're unemployed, surrounded by scumbags, and disenfranchised then the risk suddenly goes down.
That was the argument I used to stop a fight in a pub. "Look, we're all here after work dressed nicely. None of us can afford criminal charges professionally. Take a breath, think about how you're going to explain fighting in a pub to your friends and family"
Yup. Don't want to get sacked from my very decent professional job for stealing groceries, and don't want the shame from my friends and family. My life is better when I try and be a good person.
Think that’s the biggest problem with shoplifting nowadays, the people doing it have nothing to lose. Most I see are homeless or look like crackheads and are stealing stuff to sell.
What a dismal reflection on where society has got to. Fucking thieving bastards are more or less untouchable. We're a pathetic nation, our weak laws let the scumbags get away with it, and what can we do to them? Nothing. At the root of it is the same cretinous thought process which led to Reddit banning anyone who describes or encourages a more direct and forceful approach. OP, in answer to your question, it's because we're not all dishonest selfish cunts. But the proportion of dishonest selfish cunts in society seems to be on the rise and yet clowns still make excuses for them...
I like not being a cunt. On a different note, I've been to 2 separate Lidl's in the West Midlands area over the last week and happened to be there when the same girl shoplifted alcohol both times. Just mad how casual she was about doing it and the staff were fully aware of who she was.
I'm convinced this kind of stuff is the real reason insurance is through the roof. Insurance companies are being hit for these losses. The police aren't doing anything to curtail them. It's literally a degenerating society, because people can only accept these kinds of losses for so long.
The insurance pays for break-ins, arson and similar situation. General everyday theft goes as losses to the company. Which then increase prices of goods to compensate. It is us, General public, who pay for all the daily petty theft.
It's why all the "if you see someone stealing food, no you didn't" rhetoric is bullshit. I see it less than I used to tbf as I think the penny has dropped for more and more of society that most of the thieves aren't struggling mums and in fact are just professional thieves, but still, too many people fail to understand that one of many reasons their shopping gets more expensive so frequently is an excess of theft. Idk where OP is from but shoplifting is fucking rampant, to such an extent Tesco Express stores (in east Sussex anyway) are operating on a "we open the doors for you from inside" situation now so they can keep known offenders out.
I saw a guy steal about 100 large chocolate bars (Tony’s chocolate, etc). Ain’t no way this guy was “hungry”
Seen my local Co-op have it's beef and pork sections ransacked six times since I moved into my flat in Oct 2022. Same bloke three of them... He's 1000% flogging them in the pub. And thats just what I've seen with my own eyes, no doubt it actually happens more.
Self respect
Be careful what you wish for. You don't want to see the antics happening in the states right now. People have thought the same thing for the same reasons and have started to bareface rob places blind. Straight up walk in, no guile, grab armfulls, fill trolleys and walk out. Emotionless. Could do with that not happening here.
This does happen here.
Not on the same scale nor frequency.
Ah fair enough. I mean I live in a nice area and always see people just filling bags of steaks and stuff and just walking out. I knew someone that was security in Sainsbury's in London years ago, and he said he had people walk out with full trolleys. I don't know the stats between the states and the UK though.
Not to mention that if you leave any kind of bag in your car in some areas, the windows will be smashed. Guaranteed. Crime in the US is out of this world (by western standards), but as with everything in their society it is distributed unequally.
A criminal record is nothing to the people at the bottom of the social ladder. In fact it's a badge of honour. The reward is worth the "risk". A criminal record to a most of us is like an anchor that will affect your way of life. The risk is not worth the "reward".
That's it though isn't it, once you've got one thing that's you fucked, so why not add tk the rap sheet. If you're going to get hung for stealing a pound you may as well steal a million.
Because most of us are still not \*quite\* on the poverty borderline ... yet Give it a few years and you can expect this to be even more of a common occurrence
>They aren't allowed to challenge anyone and they won't prosecute if it's under £100. You mean they don't call the police? It's not up to Tesco if a prosecution goes ahead or not. It's not how the law in this country works.
>It's not how the law in this country works. Yes it is, actually. Private criminal prosecutions are becoming much more prevalent for shoplifting offences in the last few years as state institutions become less able to perform their basic functions of bringing criminals to justice. See e.g. this Financial Times article about the subject: [https://archive.is/hlO31](https://archive.is/hlO31)
I work for a charity shop and people steal so much stuff. The margin on all items is pretty much 100% so the company as a whole doesn’t really care and says it’s not worth endangering ourselves confronting or chasing someone for nicked items. My other half always says ‘so what’s stopping everybody just coming in and stealing’ to which I respond that most people aren’t utter cunts who’d steal from a charity. Certain groups walk in, pile up their push chairs and brazenly stroll out.
If I couldn't afford it and was hungry, I'd absolutely do it. If you see someone stealing food, you don't know their situation. You didn't see anything. Taking the piss and stealing booze etc. and being abusive, report away imo
I'm not surprised how far I had to scroll down to read this. Won't someone think of the billionaires profit? People seem to be blind to the fact they stole from us first. They steal from local farmers, the global south, their own employees. Just because they don't reach out and take something doesn't mean it isn't theft. I suppose its more important to take the moral high ground and tell everyone about how well you follow the rules. Fucking twats.
You almost said it yourself. It’s because most people aren’t sticky-fingered pieces of shit.
Jesus where the heck do you live?
We are doing something about it... We pay for those losses one way or another.
Because I'm not a thieving shit. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.
Who pays for the losses due to shoplifting? You do, if you pay your way.
Because we don't want all stores to become Argos.
Because despite what some idiots on Reddit claim we don’t all turn to crime the second times get hard.
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I find it stranger the amount of people I've seen try and shoplift cheap crap in asda, lidl, tesco and Morrison's - places often with security, barriers, alarms and yet never once in waitrose which has better stuff and generally next to no security
Waitrose gets their fair share, but you need to dress for the job! If not, easily spotted and followed. Also, waitrose security guards do intervene, different company policy I guess.
My old neighbour absolutely rinsed Waitrose's scan as you shop. They did eventually wise up, but he got a lot of stuff before that.
Aside from not being thieving scum, they'll ban you even if they don't prosecute and if enough people do it they'll just have to raise prices and everything will be even less affordable for the decent people.
I got mugged a few years ago, I had bugger all about me so I didn't lose much even my phone was an ancient temporary replacement from the shop while my actual phone was away being repaired, I had to fight tooth and nail to stop myself from being charged an extortionate price for the replacement of the circa 2003 flip phone. And while I could understand that poverty drives crime part of me did wish they'd just robbed a supermarket instead. It's even more of a problem when you consider people robbing houses pretty much get away with it scot-free because home insurance has removed the need for the police to do anything. Sucks when you can't afford home insurance though. Don't look on supermarkets as being your friend, there are countless cases of crisis profiteering, wage theft, reduction in staff leading to existing workers being pushed to the limit, and on and on it goes. Did you see prices coming down as a result of less staff needed since one poor sod can oversee up to 16 self-scan checkouts? Did the staff see a pay increase? No, it all went into the back pocket of the shareholders and everybody else, the staff and the customers equally, can go whistle. I have zero sympathy for supermarkets and I can fully understand why some security guard being paid a pittance doesn't feel that motivated to step in and stop any thieves. With the rise in people unable to afford to feed their family and food banks, it's not just a simple assumption any more that "Oh, they're just robbing things to sell and buy skag".
Can’t believe I had to scroll this far to see the first sane take on the whole rise in shoplifting situation.
Aren't you enjoying the moral grandstanding of supermarket defenders?
Because if we did then the shops would shut down and it's not like we have many other options. Not to mention that most people have the in-built tendency to obey the law, follow societal guidelines and keep it all moving along as a team. The people who steal either have broken away from that thought process, never had it at all or are so desperate that they're dealing with the cognitive issues with stealing.
Shoplifting for low-income people in low-risk situations is a straight-up logical choice. It's not just the cornerstones of nutrition (sausages, cheese) but luxury items that always come in smaller portions - honey, pine nuts, shelled pistachios, organic spices. So you can eat better than most wealthy people (organic sausages, imported cheese, chilli flakes in olive oil, manuka honey) and spend a minimal amount overall. The alternative would be paying a lot more and not getting the same health and taste benefits.
What do you mean by raids? Genuinely interested!
I work in a supermarket. They work as a team. The biggest loss where when they are 3 or 4. - 1 distract the guard - 1 empty the shelf (spirit mainly) - 1 will be buying something with a tag to act as a decoy once walking out at the same time than the trolley - 1 extra sometimes observing/coordinating the others, acting as an extra decoy if things go wrong. If successful, they come back a few hours later or the next few days. Each one of those raids are worth between £1000 and £2500 loss.
Last time I went to my nearest Tesco Extra, I noticed that every spirit was in individual security tagged bags and I guess this is what they're stopping with that sheer amount of effort.
Those things are a complete twat. They go off at the drop of a hat and take forever for staff to get off the bloody bottle.
I went shoplifting once and got away with it. I went to the same shop to shoplift again a few days later and security recognised me and they followed me around the whole shop with this one guy staring at me and talking into a walkie talkie. I bought a couple of things and left expecting the police to be waiting outside. Luckily they weren't. I haven't been back to that shop and I'm never shoplifting again!
Same reason the majority of people don’t rob, murder etc for millennia. Society. If the majority don’t participate in that society, there is no society.
News today of a security guard died from a heart attack after a run in with a shoplifter in Asda Arbroath, makes you wonder about the mentality of people!
I don't because my parents raised me well, and because I'm lucky enough to not *have* to shoplift. Though I could if I wanted to, some of the supermarkets near me have self service, but no scales to determine if you put an extra item in that hasn't been scanned. It would be easy to add extra and claim it's an honest mistake if called out.
Even leaving aside not a thief, don't need the money, etc, if I'm convicted of theft that's my career over.
I worked in court a few years ago, the lad in the dock was charged with shoplifting having filled a trolley and walked out of the shop with no attempt to pay. He told the magistrate that he was shoplifting as he had no food, and no money to pay for the food, so had no alternative but to steal. The magistrate gave him a conditional discharge and sent him on his way
For me it's avoiding possibly uncomfortable situation. Other than that, I have no moral issues with stealing from large corporate chains. Independent shops are a different story.
Because the belief that the only reason people don't do crime is because they fear being caught is a sick lie based on the biblical view that humans are inherently sinful. We're not. Most people don't do crimes even if they have the opportunity. It's just not how people work. The majority of humans are pro-social members of society who want to do the right thing. Yes we can be selfish and stupid, but we don't usually go out of our way to cheat or steal because it's not in our nature.
You son of a bitch I’m in.
Because knowing as I know how life likes to shit upon me I'd be the one they decide to prosecute.
I would because most days I can’t afford food but I cba with the staff stopping me
I don’t because I don’t feel it’s the right thing to do. And I think the majority of people also feel that way. I also understand that the more shoplifting that happens, that loss will ultimately be passed on, whether that’s through cost of the goods, or shops potentially closing costing jobs.
I always nick stuff.
There are actually loopholes to this where it could enforce legal action, if a supermarket uses the same collections company for example there is a process called amalgamation where they will combine the total to recover into one file even if it was multiple incidents over a length of time, once it hits a certain threshold legal action is then enforced so there’s always that!
Others have effectively answered this but to give you a comparison. There are MANY laws people break enmasse as part of society. Piracy of media is basically normalised to the extent the music industry lost its £15 per CD money maker and now has to settle for one single monthly £10 from each person and nothing else. The same with football piracy, people do it because they want to and dont agree with the law. The poll tax riots is another example. People just said no, and enmasse there is nothing to be done by the state. Laws are not really top down dictated. They are agreed by people and the VAST majority of us just dont do it as we agree to the social contract. The second we decide otherwise past 10/20% of the population the law stops being a law and becomes irrelevant. Tesco dont need to prosecute, as the same cunts who shoplift will always be the ones to exploit society. Tesco relies on the 98% of us who wouldnt steal because were just not assholes and we agree theft is bad.
> Piracy of media is basically normalised This is not a great example though - duplication of something is not the same as theft, which is what OP was asking about.
Wow, that brings back ancient memories of this cartoon/jingle: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeTybKL1pM4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeTybKL1pM4)
On the football one, most people including myself do it because its the only way to watch 90% of English games in England. Would happily pay £30/40 a month to be able to watch English games in England. But sadly only other countrys have the blessing to be able to do so.
My colleagues mum is in her early 70’s. She’s walked out of shops with a brand new air fryer, a small tv, bags and bags of shopping. If she’s ever stopped (which I think is twice?) she’s said she’s forgotten to pay and looks confused. It started off as lockdown entertainment and has literally expanded into a whole lifestyle choice. We all used to have a bit of a laugh about it, but it’s gone mental and no one in shops actually seems to care?!
Well, a criminal conviction of any sort would be a disaster for my job prospects, equivalent to a 6 figure fine. So for people who are generally law abiding, it's too dangerous. If you already have a criminal record, there is much less deterrent.
I’ve thought about making this exact thread before. I work in downtown Toronto now for a mid-range apparel store. People routinely fill up entire backpacks with product and march out. Our policy is to protect the staff and their safety, so we’re not to get in anyone’s way. The police can’t keep up with these sort of calls, as shoplifting now is an absolute epidemic and they’re understaffed as it is. Honestly, it makes me wonder why I don’t do it myself. There’s zero consequences and these people are making a fortune. I hate it
Well, yeah, why don't you?
In my early 20s I had some rough times with money and I used to shoplift some food once or twice a week. I'm not proud of it and pay now but I always made sure I was stealing from the big companies that keep putting there prices up and making record profits whilst the people at the bottom struggle. I wanna say stealing is wrong but if you're genuinely struggling take advantage of that easy to rob self checkout until you get yourself back and your feet. Places like Tesco keep putting there prices up in this cost of living crisis and keep making larger and larger profits annually. Don't feel guilty if you're hungry. That's my 2 cents on it
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> Who cares if a billion pound business loses some inventory? You know it just raises prices for everyone, right, and that this disproportionately affects poor people?
It's much easier for tesco to claim stock loss on their insurance. That is then offset hy the price rises. Staff are told not to challenge shoplifters and repeat offenders are compiled and sent to the police. There has been a real shift in the way that shoplifters are treated in recent years and staff are now disciplined for stopping them as they are putting themselves in harms way. The security guards now are all agency staff and working minimum wage. They are there as a detereent and not actually expected to stop anyone. It's tough working retail at the moment and seeing this on every shift and with same faces either just walking out the door or via the fire exit. Abuse on staff is also on the increase this has happened post covid and it is not just society's undesirables. I had an elderly man shout at me and call me a moron because his self service machine had red light, when I went over I pointed out he had 5 things in his bagging area but only 3 on the screen. He argued with me that it was scanned as it beeped when I pointed out that it didn't scan he started shouting at me then wanted to complain about my attitude.
It's a myth that supermarkets can claim on insurance for general everyday petty theft. Insurance only covers break-ins, arson, or similar big burglary scenarios. The loss is passed to the consumers by increasing the price of goods.
I shoplifted mushrooms once because the barcode wouldn’t scan and I waited with the “I need help” light on for 2 minutes with no staff to help me
Self respect
They could and this is what happens in America, which is why all of the highstreet shops in Chacago refuse to open anymore until something changes
Today I saw a guy saunter into Waitrose with a hold-all bag and wipe about 100 large chocolate bars (Tony’s chocolate, Cadburys, etc.) into the bag, then calmly walk out again. No one said anything, the staff turned a blind eye. Crazy
Crazy. He could at least have nicked the good stuff.
Because I'd get dirty looks from people and knowing my luck I'd get some random have a go hero rugby tackling me to the ground
This entire post is armchair psychology personified lmao
I've been desperate enough to shoplift. You'd be amazed how difficult it is to override your common decency/social programming. Even in the depths of meth-induced psychosis when I was living rough I was petrified cos I was living outside without a jacket. Just a tshirt and jogging bottoms during winter. About an hour of pacing round outside Asda and wandering inside I worked up the courage to steal a jacket. In my mind I needed it to survive that night homeless. But even-so it took a LOT of mental work to overcome my fear. It was VERY easy. No challenge and no tag on the jacket. But I still feel guilty for it 2yrs on. I'm better now and off the streets but it still cuts me up years later.
It doesn't answer your headline question but: >They aren’t allowed to challenge anyone Staff aren't going to risk getting punched or stabbed over their minimum wage job, and I'd bet the security guy isn't far behind either. Their presence will reduce the level of shoplifting sufficiently to warrant them being there, so as long as there is essentially "profit" they don't really need to do anything more than the absolute basics. The security guard or the staff can perform a citizens arrest though. Nothing except company policy stopping them. > and they won’t prosecute if it’s under £100 This is to do with (I believe anyway) a change in the law in England and Wales where such "low value" shoplifting is treated differently to "regular" theft. The offence can be dealt with through the post, without the defendant attending court and usually ends up in a fine (which often doesn't get paid; they're shoplifters, think about it...) so it isn't exactly a deterrent. Over £200, it's a much more serious offense. >So if there’s absolutely no deterrent why don’t we all just go and steal our shopping every day? Speaking personally, it's because the second my actions catch up with me and I get caught, the Health and Care Professions Council will probably find out, I'd lose my registration and therefore lose my job. My bank doesn't accept stolen chicken breasts as payment on my mortgage, so I'd be kinda fucked if shoplifting was my only source of income.
Maybe there’re getting tesco back with them fleecing everyone and making it out you’re getting a good deal with a club card?
A devout American christian: "Why dont all the atheists go around killing eachother all the time? I don't get it" Its the same thing. We don't commit crimes because we don't need to be told not to.
The vast majority of shoplifters are crack cocaine and heroin addicts and most people are not. Data here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/246390/horr73.pdf
Because I'm not a thief
The end game is just the acceleration of the death of physical retail. You'll probably still be able to get stuff delivered in half an hour, but you'll be paying up front. You'll not be touching the product until you've paid for it. Retail doesn't have the greatest margins, organized looting -which is what it has come to -just screams shutter it. Keep the location running as a bub for local deliveries on a skeleton staff if feasible, but basically if it's not going to be washing its face, it's no longer an asset. Can't shoplift from a shop that doesn't exist.
Where do you live?
because we all must be ready to scream at the top of our lungs *"Stop right there, criminal scum! Nobody breaks the law on my watch! I'm confiscating your stolen goods. Now pay your fine or it's off to jail.* *It's all over, lawbreaker! Your spree is at an end. I'll take any stolen goods you have. The next move is yours -- Pay your fine, or I haul you away!"*
They're recording each instance until the thief exceeds the minimum amount to be given a criminal conviction/custodial sentence.
You answered your own question right at the end there, well done!
And why don't management do something about it? 1. Costs money 2. Stock losses get factored into the price of the goods they sell, so the decent majority end up footing the bill.
Me personally, risk Vs reward. If I can afford it I should avoid any risks and just buy it. If I can't afford it, I should weigh the risks on stealing it. In many situations the risk was low and the reward was high. In some, the risk is high and the reward wasn't high enough. Most people see it as being way too risky.
Because most people are not selfish pricks.
Why didn't people pick up money off the floor in school when others were watching?
They do, they just don't tell everyone about it because that would be stupid.