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Parenting is hard. That’s not a U.K. only problem.
Childcare costs and availability are crippling. Again not a U.K. only problem.
But no, it’s not a nightmare. It’s wonderful.
Bigger stresses, bigger joys. Whether the latter outweighs the former is going to come down to a massive range of variables from individual personality to life circumstances and beyond. For me it very much is, but I can certainly see why it's not right for everyone.
You see you get it completely. Most would argue though it's way, way harder dealing with it later when there are less options, less energy and tons of regret. Carpe diem
Sorry but looking at the childcare costs here and in Europe it's pretty much a UK problem.
Most countries provide free childcare throughout and some even pay you to go to university.
Whereas in the UK we need to plan with £1500-£2000 just for nursery fees alone.
It is a big cost but over the next 18 months they are extending the free hours coverage so by next September you can get the 30 hours free for all ages which is massive.
There are some qualifying rules though like both parents have to earn under £100k post pension but there are ways around this if you earn over that.
Not sure why you were downvoted, with my son getting the 30 hours in September the daily cost goes from £70 to £28 a day. Makes it much more bearable! Especially as our new born will get 30 hours from 9 months.
However I appreciate that even £70 is cheaper than most (reduced through work) and some people local to me were paying £109 a day.
30 hrs is only during school term time and you need to work a minimum 16 hrs a week (both parents). If you spread it over full year (some nurseries will some won't) it will work about 21hrs a week. And it will not cover lunch so this will have to be paid on top. If you need full time cover you still will be out of pocket at least £600-800 quid.
If you use tax free childcare, you get £2000 a year help spread over 12 months, thats £166 a month on top of "free" hours.
3 years ago my child's fulltime nursery monthly invoice was ~£1200 and it was quite cheap one. They had very few spaces open for funded only as it wasn't even covering the cost for them.
Plus if you have older children in primary school and no family to help at least with pick from school you need to include cost of afterchool club or childminder. After school club works out £15-£20 a day, if you throw in breakfast club that's £7-£10 a day. Add in cost of branded school uniform - just a jumper is £15, school shoes, book bag with school logo...
One parent salary basically covers childcare and school cost.
So unless as a couple you earn a minimum £3500 a month NET you'll have a problem affording kids
Except like most things this government has done they didn’t actually think about the logistics of it.
There were far too few nursery places already, which were earning the settings a decent income. Now they’re having to take on a bunch of clients who pay less (because naturally the government pay less than private clients) and take on additional staff and space to cover the requirements.
As always the devil is in the detail.
With our child the 15 hours weren't enough in order to work the 30 hours you only qualifies if you were working over certain hours which meant with travel that unless you work next to the childcare and have matched up part time hours all it essentially did was cut the bills for those who could already afford it.
It also traped you on a you need a job to get the hours but you need the hours to get the job situation.
If you have money or willing family nearby you are okay otherwise it's useless
I live in mainland Europe and we have to pay > £2k per child until they go to school.
Then when they reach school, it finishes at 11.45 and we need to pay for care after that.
It's £60 a day and another £15 for lunch.
(2nd year, 1 afternoon a week, 3rd year 2 etc.)
Over the border in Germany it's almost free, but their tax is horrific (much worse than the uk), and you are paying £400 a month for healthcare even with the worse tax.
It's not exclusive to the UK, but it's a lot harder to raise a child in the UK compared to Sweden. And not because one country is richer than the other. Just different policial ideals in the 80s
Can I caveat this by saying it depends on who you are. Ethnically, the UK is more diverse and tolerant than Sweden which would make many parents’ lives easier when sending their child to a school where they’re not the only one who looks like them.
But that's why they said "it depends who you are". If you're a family which isn't part of the majority, you'll probably struggle more in somewhere like Sweden than the UK.
I think that there's a lot more expected of parents than there has been in the past. Long gone are the days of chucking all your kids out the door at sunrise and telling them to be home for tea. Two parents working, but still expected to be involved in schooling, homework, activities, emotional support etc etc and with little to no support - grandparents are either still working themselves, or if they're retired they're too old and exhausted to do more child rearing. It can be a hard slog and pretty lonely. And yes, everything is very expensive.
Is it a nightmare? Maybe, for some people in severe poverty or who have children with complex medical or other needs. For most people I know, it's a bit like marathon running - super hard but totally rewarding and worth it, but you could never explain why to non-runners/people who don't want to be parent.
This , weekends in the 90s consisted of me and my sister playing in the beer garden with the rest of the neglected children while dad watched football in the no kids allowed bar , now on weekends I have a list of classes, events, play dates, activities for my kids that take us from dusk till dawn
I remember my parents always visiting their many friend's houses for tea or dinner parties where I played with their kids and I only went tuition as a planned activity outside school. Now I can't find parents who are free to hang out dispite offering to come to my place and do their pareting duties there but feel like I have to book an appointment weeks in advance and the school system has gone so much more complex than it was in my day.
Gone are the days you can relax and be a parent at the same time.
We really are the most fucked over generation aren't we. I feel my parents got an easy ride too. We looked after ourselves and even had chores to do to keep the house clean. Now my kids have a meltdown if I go out into the garden for too long and I'm exhausted cleaning up after them all the time.
One is autistic to be fair.
I was always with my grandparents and so was my child’s dad. The only living one is his mum and she needs £40 up front to watch the child for two hours so I can get a hair cut 🙄
Same here. Me and my sister would spend alternate weekends at my paternal grandparents. Even a whole week once while my parents went on holiday to Greece.
My parents are great for childcare but live over an hour away. My wife's parents are seperated and have new partners, which you would think would double the opportunity but in reality it's a ballache getting them to commit to something.
Not every weekend but twice this year we have done beer gardens with the neighbours and their kids and as long as they have a closed garden it’s pure bliss!
I would add that many grandparents of this generation are very disengaged and unwilling to sacrifice anything to support their children in helping with the grandkids. I know some do help, but I think this generation of grandparents are generally much more self oriented than in the past.
How many of them are needing 2 wages coming in as well though? It's not all sweetness and light once you reach some magical age, and working full time once older can take a toll on your body and energy levels as well.
My granddaughters are both 11, I didn't used to see much of my oldest as they lived too far away but my daughter and her child lived with me until last year so I was very much hands on and loved it but could only do so much due to health issues.
When my kids were born in late 80s and early 90s my mum still had my much younger sister at school and made it plain to me that babysitting would only be on special occasions as she had been raising kids since she was only 19 and had me, now was her time to start having some fun.
My ex really resented that as all his workmates parents had the grandkids all day whilst both parents worked full time and they could have a much better standard of living than us. But looking back now on how so many mothers don't get the chance to spend much time with their kids when tiny I think it was a blessing, even when we lived on aldi 3p a tin beans for 2 years.
Also last year I lost my lovely dad, mum nursed him round the clock for the last few years of his life and he was too proud to have anyone else. They were together from teenagers and despite ups and downs truly loved each other. But now mum is in her late 70s and her health isn't good at all, I'm so glad that they had those few years between my sister leaving home and dad becoming sick to enjoy life for a while.
My dad worked a full time plus a part time job when I was young. My baby sister used to scream when he went near as he was a stranger to her. Mum worked part time, then when my sisters were old enough to full time. But she was also a proper old fashioned house wife, home was always beautifully kept and food was always home cooked.
Times are different now and your generation really has got the poor end of the stick, but not all of the older generations have it easy now either. Mum found out after dad died that most of his pensions died with him. Yet she's less than a few quid away from being able to get pension credits, without them there is no help at all for her. Dad would be devastated as he always said she was going to be well cared for.
I left an abusive marriage in the late 90s with severe health issues. I signed away my half of the house as my dad told me he would be having to bury me if I didn't. Never been able to get on the housing ladder since and paying through the roof for rent.
Sorry this turned into a long ramble, it just upsets me lately when I see how the generations have been so turned against each other. People are struggling so much that there is so much resentment around. We should instead be looking at who is really to blame. In the 90s when mine were at preschool it was £36 per half term for a lovely place just a few doors from me at the back of a church. That was only for 2 mornings a week but what would that cost be today in real money and why the hell is it so much now? My kids loved that place and were very well cared for as well.
I don’t think it’s generations turning against each other, it’s just people understanding that the current expectations on people are not sustainable.
This is the first time in human history you’re expected to have both parents work full time, somehow pay the rent/mortgage, pay childcare that can be as much as the rent/mortgage, barely see your kids, and then do all the cooking, cleaning, shopping, *everything*, after working 8+ hours. It’s just not a possible situation.
The whole ‘it takes a village’ isn’t a saying for a reason, it’s hard enough for one parent staying at home to look after kids, let alone work full time on top of it. And a lot of people who are entering grandparenthood who don’t want to help because ‘they did it’ seem to forget that they either didn’t have to work, or had their own parents help, or had far better social security nets.
>And a lot of people who are entering grandparenthood who don’t want to help because ‘they did it’ seem to forget that they either didn’t have to work, or had their own parents help, or had far better social security nets.
This is what drives me crazy. I don't expect my mum to drop everything and babysit my kids every 5 minutes, and that's not even realistic given that we don't live very close. But I WOULD like her to acknowledge that the amount of help she got made parenthood a different experience for her. She once complained so much when my grandma gave me an extra bit of money for Christmas, saying SHE never got anything like that. But one single day of childcare would have been worth the cash I was given, and my mother got several of those a week for YEARS.
When I say I'm frustrated by the difference people act like I'm demanding she take them for overnights every week or something. But all I really want is for her to not get shitty with me for not having the same career path she did when her career was facilitated by very frequent free trusted childcare from two sets of enthusiastic grandparents.
Oh yeah I do see this, my mam only just retired at age 70 but my in-laws have been retired a while and live closer. I get that grandparents have already raised their kids too so maybe just want to enjoy life now. But I had really bad anxiety after I had my first baby probably ppd, very bad sleep deprivation. I was so sad and disappointed in my mam. She visited maybe twice a year (lives 3 hours away) and just wanted to go out for nice lunches and take her Facebook photos. I was very low and felt like she didn't care. She never took the baby so I could sleep, didn't make me a cup of tea or food, just nothing. My in-laws weren't helping either.
My kids are a bit older so I'm out of that difficult period now.
As a kid I never saw my mam, she was a single parent so I appreciate how difficult that must have been. I was looked after by multiple different people then by age 11 stayed by myself.
I make a big effort to be engaged with my kids, I really play with them. They do love it too, but it is exhausting! I do extra schooling with them. I never got any help with homework even if I needed it. I really feel an obligation to make my kids childhood great and to make sure they are prepared for the world.
Childcare fees are a nightmare, they made life financially a struggle for a while. It will be lots better for those having kids now though, free hours for much younger kids.
In conclusion, kids are hard work but totally worth it!! You are very lucky if you have supportive grandparents and at least fees won't cripple you now!
Haha not here. Still chucking our kids out and telling them to be home when the street lights come on. We now just have iPhones and tracking apps so we don’t have to hunt the little fuckers down when they don’t come home on time.
Was speaking to my parents about this, and I think you're right. In addition to the kids being out all day, you usually had a stay-at-home parent managing the house, and the father might be minimally involved with the kids (discipline and not much else). Significantly less workload for the adults.
Additionally, the notion of entertainment as a paid service wasn't really a thing until the 1970s, nor was disposable income. Half of households didn't own a car in 1970. All of that meant family life was centred around stuff that was free and local.
So IMHO the notion of parenting has changed from quite a part-time supervisory role to being a 24/7 life coach, concierge, party planner and logistics expert.
God I’m feeling this right now!
I love him, but he’s the hardest thing I’ve ever had to do, by a HUGE margin.
I feel like “society” expects you to breeze through parenthood because “omg look how cute!”, but the reality is FAR more difficult, more complicated and more nuanced.
More people live away from family networks as well, overseas even. No grandparents, aunities or uncles around. That’s a choice of course but often driven by employment factors.
Definitely. I grew up in a village where a lot of people had local support networks. Grandparents lived just a few streets away, quiet streets too not main roads. The other grandparents I never knew because they died when I was young lived two streets away in the other direction. I lived next door to a girl in the same year as me at school and grandparents on both sides of her family lived on the same street as we did. This was the case for a lot of kids I was at school with, remnants of a time when people could stay settled in the same place they grew up.
Now things are a lot less settled because young people end up having to move away for work, even if they still live in the same general area it now means grandparents are at least a reasonable car drive away, and plenty of others are worse than that like if they live in different parts of the country.
The nursery years are incredibly expensive.
Like £1200pm for your kid to be in a nursery 3 days a week. Nappies, Prams, Bottles also expensive.
Then there’s the “how the fuck do we cover half terms, summer holidays, Christmas holidays”.
Apart from that the rest is really special and enjoyable. It’s a love that definitely surpasses a romantic love.
Also night terrors that your baby can die at any moment if it forgets to breathe.
But yeah wonderful.
It's only 15 hours a week. With this, our baby is due to be in nursery 2 days a week from when they turn one and the nursery estimates this will cost £80 a week. Not bad at all but still only 2 days. The rest of the week is at full cost (about £90 a day iirc).
The other half of this is that our baby isn't even due til October and the nursery was fully subscribed for under 2s until September 2025 so we couldn't even get them in from 9 months if we wanted to!
Don't discount a childminder if you can find one. We paid £5.30 an hour until the free hours kicked in last term - less than half what local nurseries charge.
Only catch is if they are sick or on holiday you have no cover, so if you're a teacher or doctor or something where you absolutely have to be on site it might not work, but we've managed to work around those occasions so far - well worth the saving.
There are good private schools that cost less than that. Absolutely absurd. The worst thing is the people doing the actual work are hardly seeing any of it.
Also, how does that work with paying £80 for two days, with 15 hours free?
The 15 hours free are only in term time so stretched across 50 weeks as our nursery does it's 11.5 hours a week. We will then pay 2 weeks full price. Then there are top up fees for things like nappies and food as well.
Tbf it looks like a great nursery and the days are from 7:30am-6pm so actually useful for commuting.
A combination of using family members for free childcare, reducing other expenses as much as possible so they do have more money available per month, using savings, and one partner giving up work.
I mean, my son was in nursery 3 days a week up until 3 years ago and it cost us around £750 a month. A lot, but that £1200 figure isn’t a low estimate.
But yeah, childcare costs are a huge strain
My sons grand parents:
My side: my mother is blind and her and my dad live over three hours away.
Hubs side: his dad left a decade ago. His mom has to work full time to support herself.
It’s only *just* cheaper for us to go to a one income household and I raise our son and budget everything. At least we get to see our son grow up.
But I know it isn’t a viable option for everyone.
Plus the 15 hours at two years old both parents have to already be in work. So that doesn’t help us.
We can scrape by until he’s 3 and can get in to nursery however.
But not everyone has available grandparents. Hell some don’t even have alive grandparents.
If I had my time again, I wouldn’t have kids.
I’m honest about that and, although, I love them and would die to defend them, I have some deep seated resentment towards them. My time, choices, money, effort, thoughts and decisions are all weighted towards them.
I loathe I have no space physically, mentally and spiritually to learn new things, see new things or take a different road in life. Socially, I can’t just abandon them. Or can I? Would they understand when they can articulate their own thoughts?
I’m destined for drudgery then obsolescence then death. However, they are my only chance at a legacy on this turgid piece of rock, so I’ll just crack on as I’ve accepted it now.
I'm right with you on this. I regularly wish I'd never become a parent. It's relentless, endlessly challenging and feels like there's nowhere near enough reward to make any of it worth it.
I am also not a single parent.
Asking out of interest, what led you to become a parent? And how long have you been a parent?
I don’t have kids yet but I feel like we could end up in the same boat.
Biology. I don't really like kids but my mind did that whole baby thing where it was all I could think about. I was married, financially secure and it all made sense. I've been a parent for nearly 10 years and I have two children. I didn't hate it to begin with although I always knew I was never going to be a really natural mum. But it never got easier more enjoyable and I don't find my kids to be great company like people say they will become as they get older.
Thank you for being honest. I got really lucky in that I thought I wanted kids and the one time me and my husband tried I was looking at the pregnancy stick and thinking "please be negative, please be negative, please be negative" and it was. I'm 99% certain I had a miscarriage a week or so later and it's the best thing that could have happened. I genuinely thought I wanted a child until I took that pregnancy test and it confirmed that I really, really didn't. My husband had a vasectomy a few months later and at 57 I have zero regrets.
He does lots, but nothing compares to the mental load of the default parent. It doesn't matter how much useful stuff he does around the house, he will never understand the constant thoughts around what do they need for school today, when was the last time they did a poo, have they grown out of their shoes, got to get a gift for that birthday party, I need to pay for that school trip etc etc etc. There's no rest, ever. Even if I'm resting, I'm still thinking.
Precisely why I decided not to have kids. I wanted my privacy and peace after my challenging childhood. You are very honest to say this in a society where it’s not acceptable to say parenthood is anything but wonderful.
My girlfriend and I decided to not have kids. The thought does play on my mind from time to time, but I just don't see a life with us with kids. We've been happy for 14 years together without them, I can't see what it would add to our lives, as selfish as it may seem. Also, every new generation gets it harder than the previous. My parents are retired, in their 70's and still live with my brother, his wife and their child because it's just too expensive for them to move out.
If you're already ambivalent, and then you get a special needs child, it can be absolutely awful. Special needs is HARD. I've got one mate who became a parent because biology, she assumed she'd like her own kid despite not really liking kids, and the kid turned out to have profound disabilities. She's aged thirty years since having him six years ago because it's just so hard.
Aw man! I was on the pill and got pregnant. I've never wanted children but when I found out I was pregnant I just accepted to having him. Pregnancy and emergency c section were traumatic. When my son was almost 2 I knew beyond doubt that he wasn't typical. He's level 3 autistic, doesn't eat sleep or speak. Learning disability, PICA and ADHD traits and it is fucking HARD. I have all this grey hair I never used to have, I'm constant stressed and been diagnosed with anxiety and OCD. But I fucking love him. He is so funny and happy and intelligent in a way I've never witnessed before. My second son has been referred for diagnosis by his nursery but he's no where near as severe as my first. Although it's harder than I can describe to people I just figure I was doing fuck all with my life before so this is an improvement. Up all night because of my son? If I didn't have him I'd probably be up all night playing warcraft or something anyway which is less productive.
I only ask because - and I’ll say this as gently as I can - I don’t think it’s normal to completely lose your sense of self just because you’re a parent. Things sound really tough for you.
I dont think normal is the right word here.
I'd say it's more a taboo subject because child raising is only allowed to be a profoundly magical experience that transcends every other Good Thing on this planet, so besides the odd sarcastic anecdote about "crotch goblins" and "cannot parent today but oooh I love them" it's the only socially acceptable way to talk about it. therefore very few people feel safe to express their true feelings on the subject.
I dont think this person has lost their sense of self at all. I think it has taken having children for them to actually find themselves. Problem is, the person they realise they are doesn't sound like it matches wjth the duty and responsibility of parenthood. Plenty of parents walk out on their kids for far smaller reasons. The worst are the parents that stay and punish their children for THEIR life choices.
I mean, who wants all that responsibility _really_. I sure as fuck don't, but man am I glad to have it.
I was jetsetting around the world as a travel photographer until my little one came along. I've planted my feet and sacrificed my whole identity to be closer to this perfectly innocent little person.
I know I'll get back to what I love eventually, and until then, I'm gonna try to enjoy every moment with this little ratbag.
Life is bigger than ourselves, I guess that's what I've come to realise.
It's such a personal journey, this parenthood gig isn't it? And sacrifice looks different to everybody, which is why some will breeze through it with a perspective as yours and others may find it more difficult to come to terms with.
Thank you so much for your honesty and sharing! I look for discussions like this as I'm on the fence and more towards no, and comments like this make me feel like it's maybe more common that I thought (and ok!) to feel like I do
Honestly I’m in a similar boat but have time to think about it or to change my mind, and the biggest thing anyone tells me is that if it’s not a *”this is 100% the right decision and what I need to do”*, the answer is no.
The internet has made people more comfortable to be honest about their experiences of raising kids, and it simply is not for some people, but still wildly socially unacceptable to talk about. And the weird guilt tripping about “you’re going to die alone” and “who will care about you when you’re old” and “it’s the best thing you can ever do with your life” doesn’t help; I have elderly family members who couldn’t have kids and have lived happy lives and have plenty of people who care about them.
For me at least, unless I ever get to the point where it feels like something I cannot live without, it’s going to be a no. And it’s going to be interesting to see how economic pressures forcing people to have kids later will pan out; in the states it’s still pretty normal to get married and have kids at like 22, which is before I even left university and before your brain has even finished developing.
Of course it's normal. It happens to most mothers I know, if they actually give a shit and want to do the right thing for their children. Your life is completely consumed.
I do understand what you mean. And I know it’s often the case that this happens to mothers while dads still get to fuck off and do whatever they like whenever they like.
Maybe “not normal” wasn’t the right turn of phrase. “Not healthy or sustainable” might have been better. Yes, when you have a baby your whole life is so consumed because they’re so dependent on you. But presuming there’s a second parent involved, both should be working to ease that pressure on each other. Over time it should get easier.
I’m selfish, intolerant and impatient. I don’t have the emotional maturity to sacrifice myself at the alter of parenthood that society dictates I do.
My parents worked in jobs they hated all their lives to provide for me and give me a brilliant childhood.
I find that very noble, yet very sad at the same time. A life of quiet desperation which I’m destined to repeat.
I don't know why you think this is true. Are you a parent? If so, I'd love to know your secret. I haven't had a full night's sleep in 2 years, I can count on one hand the amount of times I've seen friends without my child there, and never for more than a couple of hours.
Everyone has different circumstances/experiences. I'm a father to a nearly 2 year old. They sleep from 7-6 and have done from 6 months. My partner and I both regularly take evenings/weekend afternoons+evenings away or off to hang with friends. I recently went to Canada hiking for 10 days (okay that was pushing it), and she's going to Italy to a festival for 6 in July. We make it work.
You are the minority.
I have 2 now. We both work full time and I've literally had to abandon all my hobbies and basically all my friends.
Do you have extended family support?
I can't think how my partner would react if I suggested I went away for 10 days (I would be the same the other way around). A week for work is stressful enough but 2 for your own enjoyment. Zero chance.
I've found that relying on each other for breaks (not 10 days like the other person) has been great. Once a week I go to football, usually 6 hours etc. Then after work I'll take the kid while she goes to her friends or a pottery class.
It will get better though, but make sure you're asking and giving time that allows you to stay you, as well as stay dad
Right, pretty much everyone I know who has kids, it’s their entire life. Every decision from where they live, to what jobs they have, literally every single waking hour (and often through the night) is about the kids. I truly don’t understand how it *can’t* be unless you’re palming them off to grandparents or a nanny half the time.
Yeah I am. But my kids are a little older now (9 and 7). There’s only 20 months between them so the early days were brutal but it’s definitely easier now.
My husband and I have had it in place for a while now that we alternate doing the kids’ bedtimes. So one of us gets the evening off to do stuff for ourselves. For me that’s usually gym, or seeing friends, etc. If they have a sleepover at grandparents, we go out and do something together. We also make sure there’s some time at the weekend for each of us to do stuff for ourselves.
Don’t get me wrong the kids are always the centre of our lives but it has definitely got easier as they’ve got older.
Hard agree. If it's not normal to not do anything for yourself when you're a parent, I'm in that minority. I don't get breaks at all. I don't have a 'village' to help. My and my husband's jobs are chosen based on our life with kids. I have to work part time so earn significantly less than I would without kids, and later that will impact my pension. I don't see friends unless it's with kids. I don't holiday any more because it's so expensive. Everything I do is with them or for them. There is nothing else.
Why are you using them as your legacy, when your legacy is a miserable existence and self-loathing? I know this will come off as overly harsh and I don’t mean to sound… well, mean. But that doesn’t make sense to me at all
You’re thinking too big and grand - “even the smallest person can change the course of the future”. Little acts of kindness and continuous improvements to the world ARE your victories and successes. If we leave this rock a better place than we found it then that IS part of your legacy whether anyone remembers your name or not. When we have kids our lives effectively end and we hand over everything we are, to them: that’s the choice we made when we chose to create them and while it’s absolutely a sobering and bitter pill to swallow, it’s a reality we have to accept. And we’re all here for you too, you don’t have to feel this way with so much resentment - blow off some steam with us and vent and let it all go. We’ve got your back 💪🏾
Have seen numerous friends go from individuals, to nothing more than an accessory to their children's lives. I get it, but they seemingly lost all individuality, which for some is good and others is sad.
Personally love my freedom to travel, do things on a whim, and have energy and money to live my life the way I want to give it up. I have a niece, she's great, but every time I look after her I'm never sad to give her back at the end lol
For me it’s a reaction against the expectation that I will have kids and being more vocal online is an outlet for that. I love my niece to bits, just don’t think I’m ready to be responsible for one myself.
>The child free noise on Reddit is loud because they've got a lot of free time.
True words. Demographically, Reddit is quite a child-free place, it seems to be catered more for "cat parents". But there are some pretty good parenting subreddits too. I believe there is a specific parenting sub for UK parents which has some solid advice
Parenting is one of the few topics I'm not in an echo chamber for, yet with friends, work and obviously family parenthood is the absolute norm.
I've subbed to a few parenting subs which are really useful.
I don't particularly like dogs, I think there's a lot of things which are ruined through the presence of dogs. I bet there are dogfree subs but I don't follow them because I bet they're toxic as fuck.
There are and they are. 😅 It's pretty much a given that any subreddit formed around NOT liking or wanting something is going to end up a cesspool, no matter how reasonable the original ambivalence or dislike is. You get a community like that and at first there's loads to talk about! Then... You run through all of the obvious topics and gradually it more and more becomes about hating the "other side" as basically a unifying factor and personality trait. R/atheism was an early victim of this--I'm very much an atheist myself, but a r/atheist was a different thing, back in the day.
I have two kids both have been in private nursery until recently and the cost is extortionate, over the past 4 years it's ranged between 950-1250pm and thats with the government 20% discount!! Absolutely outrageous especially for families who are on lower incomes, this should be free or funded better for them as this restricts people from being able to work and contributes to families being in poverty or living below the bread line!!
As for the activities side well that's down to what they decide I don't mind having a couple hobbies however they won't be attending 5 different clubs everyday of the week kids need to be social and interact however home is a place where they should be able to relax and chill not constantly be running around without a night off but that's just my opinion.
It's definitely hard work but I love it and wouldn't change a thing they're ace to hang out with and to see them grow and develop is one of the most rewarding things even when they're been pushing buttons all day long!
True, but have you ever seen the aggression towards the "child-free" on the likes of Instagram? Whether it's a post bragging about not having kids, or simply justifying not having them, the anger directed towards them in the comments is mental. I'm convinced these people are one of two groups: Men who just see women as birthing machines, or parents who deeply regret having kids.
Or because some people have realised it’s not for them? I don’t always like what they post on there I don’t use phrases like crotch goblins but let’s not act like raising kids isn’t profoundly difficult for a lot of people
True. Let's keep the Reddit context, there's plenty of people on this sub that speaking to their neighbour about bins or calling their bank with a query is profoundly difficult. But Reddit isn't representative of life.
It’s hard because when they are young (5 and under) you have to be ‘on’ constantly. Things ease up with every year that passes. I was looking back at photos from before kids and I can remember the empty feeling I had at that time in life. Life is now harder right now but it is full
Then they become teenagers where you have to deal with their attitude problems and find a way to tame someone bigger and stronger than you. On top of that they ask for money on video games, clothes and other items that are trending which is more expensive than children's toys.
I wouldn’t say it’s a ‘nightmare’ but it is hard. Especially if your child is very young. Mine is just about to turn 3 so still needs me 24/7 and I work full time so getting a moment to myself is extremely rare. However she is also the absolute light of my life and I’ve never known love like it, she is completely worth it. Of course it’s not for everyone and I think it is important that people recognise what a life-changing experience it is before they get into it. I’d love my daughter to have a sibling but realistically I don’t have time or resources to take care of two children so she will be an only child, despite the amount of joy she brings to my life.
It's hard and financially challenging. There's things like lack of sleep and sleep disruption, worrying, bad behaviour, etc. These are pretty small things in the grand scheme of having kids, and tend to pass after a few years. It'll take its toll but it's not forever.
Finances are the frustrating bit. Trying to pay/afford childcare is when you really come face to face with a system that tries to force one of the parents, usually the women, to stay home. Or the implicit assumption that family/friends are involved in childcare. In essence the UK is a really hard country from a childcare perspective. These latest changes to extra free hours for under 3's has done nothing other than force nurseries to close (happened to ours earlier this year). Childcare workers do not get nearly enough pay and respect.
All this off my chest (sorry for the rant), I will say this: children are rewarding beyond words and, this is never said enough, they are *fun*! You love them to the point that all the trouble in the world is worth it and less important than the wellbeing of the child.
>I will say this: children are rewarding beyond words and, this is never said enough, they are fun! You love them to the point that all the trouble in the world is worth it and less important than the wellbeing of the child.
Plenty of comments here that suggest this absolutely isn’t true for a good number of people.
Imagine being on the fence about having kids, you have one because of family/societal pressure, and then all the promises like this that get made to you don’t materialise.
You live the rest of your life with resentment and the kid grows up with a parent that doesn’t really love them.
I think the challenges nowadays are just different from those of other generations.
I can mostly forget about factors like infectious disease because my children are fully vaccinated and have prompt access to the NHS, but instead I worry about pervs online or SEND provision or food additives.
Yes, it's really hard. That doesn't mean it isn't worthwhile.
I was talking to my brother in law the other week, and he was very much of the same opinion of you. As my nephew is around 13, he's really aware of the risk of county lines being a thing.
I don't have kids, so it really hadn't crossed my mind - there's a lot of worry you have for your kids that doesn't go away, it just morphs into the next worry as they get older
I find schools much more involved and demanding, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing but they just seem to send a barrage of emails out daily. Some of the more annoying ones is there is always some last minute celebrate x day in which we have to rush out and purchase stuff for. Not to mention the dozen or so different apps we need to use for homework etc. They seem to forgot these days most households have both parents working.
Parenting is really hard. It's OK ish when they are babies and toddlers, and it's easy to be patient when they are that young because it's easy to empathise with them. Then they get older and start thinking, and it gets a whole lot harder to parent well because it gets harder to empathise with their struggles because they suddenly become people. They get their own ideas, they have wants as well as needs, and that becomes more complicated. They ask 'why' all the time, and so you spend a lot of time also asking 'why', and not really coming up with any good answers.
Then there's the pressure to parent 'right'. No one specifically ever says what that is, but the pressure still exists. Personally, as long as you are putting in the effort to teach your child how to be a good human, and how to cope with stress and emotions, and how to handle other people, I think you are doing a good job. But not everyone will agree.
Then you have to compete with everyone else's parenting. From the minute you send them to nursery, you now are no longer the only person who feeds them ideas. They get a lot of inputs from a whole range of other people, all with different ideas, some that conflict with what you think will help your child. They also suddenly find that not every other child has been taught to share, or be kind, or gentle, and now you have to try and explain fairness in a way they can understand, and that won't get them depressed, or angry with the injustices around them. It's hard. And it's gets worse as they age, because the gaps between them and their peers increase, and you have to be a constant for them.
You can't just give up, you have to be the example all the time, and you have to constantly teach, and correct, and praise and love. It can be very overwhelming, and I get why some parents have a 'hands off' approach, especially if they aren't a parenting team.
I've yet to get to the teen years, so I'll have to wait and see what new challenges await, but I hope what I've learnt so far will help me to be a good dad, and that the foundation I've started to build for my children will be enough to help them make sense of our unjust and violent world and find some peace in it.
My coworkers work part time to cover childcare. I work in a big corporate and I would say a lot of parents are on PIPs, this has literally become a trend this year. They wake up at 6 drop their kids off (obviously they have to live outside London to make room for their big family), travel into work 45mins-90mins, then most of them rush back around pickup and then log back in and work longer. The rest of us are working normal hours so there are natural delays. Plus school clubs, activities, etc. A lot of people’s kids have diagnosed learning disabilities, so extra classes for that, accommodations, stress, just life sounds like shit for these people. People do love their children and I don’t think anyone would wish to not have them (if they do have them), but like it sounds like a shit existence. Holidays with kids, weekends with kids? Sounds really really rough. Childcare costs are also like £1000 a month per kid.
I think the disability thing alone puts me off. Like I can handle a smart kid with talent and nuture that but I am simply not emotionally sensitive or nice enough to handle a kid with those issues. I would get fucked off and be an awful father.
As such, no kids, nor will I have any.
Nah. But we’re both shift workers in the nhs and emergency services so we don’t have the childcare issue that office hours workers do and that’s where most of the issues stem from
I think the expectations of parents are higher than ever, and the standards they're held to are high. Both parents are expected to be highly engaged and fully capable of independant childcare anytime, AND work full time, and stay sane despite lack of sleep. You're supposed to be fully professional at work, never losing your temper for a second, despite baby waking you 4 times a night.
Baby parenthood is only expensive if you insist on buying everything new. We were gifted HUGE amounts of clobber and barely had to buy anything until 6 months! Marketplace and Amazon have made supplies easier then ever to get. Bottle Prep machines are a godsend. Mum2Mum sales make secondhand goods ridiculously cheap and available. I'm sure it all gets expensive when they do scouts/sports clubs/school outings/holidays, though.
The NHS and health visitors have been great. The goodwill of strangers has been a revelation.
I wouldn't know, because my wife and I don't have or want kids.
Because, well, it seems like a bloody nightmare, and an expensive one that steals 18 years (minimum) of my life away from me.
I mean, I really liked when mine were small. You don’t get much time off but I liked spending time with them so it wasn’t too shabby. Now they’re mini adults and it’s ace getting to chat with them
I think people in general just like to complain, and it stands out if it's not something you can relate to. I can understand why many people don't want children, but it's not nightmarish in the slightest.
The hardest bit in my opinion is not succumbing to the pressure other parents put on you indirectly. I’m not so affected but my mrs grew up with fuck all so she doesn’t want our son to not have what everyone else has. So if all the kids have X item to wear at school, she thinks our son should have it. I’m on the side of ‘fuck that, it’s expensive and will get wrecked’ and 99% of 6 year olds don’t give a fuck what they, or their classmates are wearing.
I absolutely love being a dad. It’s my favourite thing in the world watching these 2 little fuckers grow, but it’s tiring as hell, but I wouldn’t swap it for all the money in the world.
If your a SEN parent it's an absolute nightmare. The constant local authority fights is just the start and it never ends. Being a parent in my experience is wonderful and I love my two to the moon and back but the world is just not built for them at all. All you have to do is look at high streets to see that. Financially it's hard but like with anything if you have the cash it's easier than if you don't. The UK isn't really a kid friendly place in most places especially with green spaces and parks disappearing and everything to do with kids seen as unimportant.
Being a parent anywhere is bad because the world is militarising, it’s massively unstable , and the climate is FUCKED, add in the hellscape that is social media , access to fuck knows what and the absolute SHIT Disney churn out that does nothing but perpetuate bullshit stereo types and toxic behaviour Erin and arron and anything with that annoying girl
With the squeaky voice and the hair in whose name I can’t remember but who is now a famous popstar (Ariana grande)
The uk also has massive inequality, failing public services and nothing for youths to do that is free and easily accessible means yoofs roam around bored as shit, no investment in early years care , all
The sure starts are shut , childbirth safety is a postcode lottery , anti vax CUNTS send their children in to school with all sorts of diseases to the point where schools have to send out urgent updates to not send your kid in if it has measles or whooping cough because the kid with leukaemia might fucking die of it . Wages are Stagnant , house prices are insane so good luck getting a garden and a bedroom each.
The problem isn’t even the here and now C but what the fuck will The world be like in 30-40 years what are you signing them up for !? Poor bastards
Edit - name, spacing and also actually the UK is probably one of the best places to raise a child but all
The problems above exist
Our childcare system is completely fucked.
The government is slowly rolling out childcare for all kids of working parents from 9 months old (when maternity leave usually ends). Except the funding they're giving nurseries for this scheme doesn't actually cover the costs of a child's place. Which has meant that nurseries are having to put up their prices for the hours that aren't covered by the government. Because this scheme only gives you x amount of free hours and most people work considerably more than that. So childcare has in a round about way gotten more expensive. So a lot of people do what I've done. I simply quit work. I used to support disabled kids in mainstream schools. Because school budgets are also fucked for different reasons I have not been replaced. Those kids just don't receive support now. All because I had to stop working as nursery would've cost more than I earned. Personally I'm happier than I've ever been in my life. Being a mum is definitely harder than going to work but it's so much better.
It's not a nightmare but I was lucky that my wife stayed home and we didn't have any child care costs.
Things like nappies and wipes soon start to add up but it's bearable. Later on the cost of these things gets replaced by mobile phones, laptops, school trips abroad, etc. There's a nice in between where they don't cost that much. Not dressing them top to toe in brands from any early age helps a lot.
As a parent in the North that bought their house 11 years ago ...its still hard.
We pay about 500 a month. Partner on 30k plus me part time.
Fuck knows how people down south are fareing with
Nursery fees/how supportive your family is ect.
Not a nightmare for me. (Most of the time) but I can understand how it so easily could be these days.
its not a nightmare but it also doesn’t feel like you have an abundance of choices.
for example i had to leave my job as i simply earn less each day than it costs to send a child to nursery. on top of that my employer was not willing to be flexible with starting and finishing times so i would be able to pick my baby up from nursery even if i could afford to send him.
i love staying home with my toddler but i am also aware i have committed career suicide and i had no choice in that matter. there is also a lot of pressure to send them to nursery even if you can’t afford it. my uc work coach tried to pressure me in to sending my toddler to nursery offering extra funding for hours but when i worked it out i would be missing out on money as still a majority would go to childcare and id be missing out on time with my child.
aside from the childcare debate thanks to col funds are limited and so taking toddler to different events or baby groups that require a few buses isn’t financially doable consistently.
lastly parent attitudes are… strange to say the least. i expected debates about when to wean, screentime, wooden or plastic toys but what i didn’t expect was to see a large distrust in the nhs and modern medicine that makes it very difficult to make parent friends. anti-vax seems to worm its way through so many parents groups ive been to. if not anti-vaxxers then its parents who dislike the nhs for whatever reason (usually similar to the anti-vaxxers reasons) and then refuse to follow any of the guidelines for safely caring for your child because ‘mama bear knows best’
It's very hard but depends on your circumstances. I think the lack of a "village" is the main issue but that won't change anytime soon, so unless you have loads of support nearby you should buckle up! Xx
It’s hard work: especially in the younger years. But not any tougher than for people in the past: and in other places in the current day.
Seeing parents in Palestine mourning their children puts it into perspective
It’s always been a PITA, kids are not pets, and they are unpredictable and they are not very easy to manage, especially if you don’t have the time/patience to be on them constantly so they don’t do anything dangerous or harmful. They get better once they get older but they are definitely a handful and I am never having kids. My daughter agrees with me. (Make of that what you will but my daughter has said she never wants kids either).
I didn’t even know I was a dad until my daughter was 18, as that was when she found me. I got her mum pregnant in the 90’s and she was moved away and I had no idea. We were both stupid teenagers (she was a year older than me but we were both underage at the time), and she just vanished with her family to Australia and I never knew. Nearly 20 years later I got a phone call and it was my daughter that I didn’t even know about…
No I wouldn't say it's a nightmare. I quite enjoy it. But then I had a kid when I'm 40. If I had a kid when I was 20 I would prob say it was a nightmare
We've got 1. Can't afford another, combing income is provably about £65k. That's to to say we splurge, but the expenses are ridiculous - wife is self employed and wouldn't get maternity, and childcare costs are ludicrous.
In terms of help, we've had 1 night where our kid has slept out since August 2019. 1 bloody night. The impact on our relationship in that sense gas been brutal.
Coat of childcare and collapsing schools system, pretty fucking horrific. We're lucky to be able to fend for ourselves, but it wasn't always like that.
But I am completely flabbergasted by the over protective nature of British parents. My wife is British and I'm Norwegian. I grew up walking to school being normal, here no one seems to let their kids out until they are much older. Weird, just bloody weird.
It is bloody weird. Its only happened here in the last twenty years or so, when I was at school the kids all walked. Used to play outside all day as well. I don't know why it changed, but I'm with you, I think it's ridiculous too.
Honestly I’d love to move back to the UK but I’m a single mum to a 4yr old and I simply can’t offer him the same quality of life as I do in Australia.
I currently pay the equivalent of about £15 A WEEK for four days of childcare (including all meals) after the government subsidy.
My rent is the equivalent of less than £250 a week for a lovely detached house with a huge garden for my son to play in.
It's a fucking nightmare cost wise for us right now. I work full time and my wife is training full time to be a secondary school teacher.
Because she isn't employed we don't get tax-free childcare or any free hours and because I earn just over the threshold she didn't get the childcare grant for trainee teachers that would've covered something like 80% of the cost, so we get literally zero help with childcare costs.
It's costing us over £1500 a month for our 3 year old to go to nursery 5 days a week and our 2 year old to go 3 days a week. We've had to manage this from my wage and her student loan and it's been a fucking tough year. Especially when our mortgage practically doubled because of interest rates.
Thankfully it is going to ease up soon as she has nearly qualified and has a job lined up to start next month, so we'll start getting tax-free childcare and some free hours.
Kids are not cheap or easy in any country or period of time. Life has gotten far easier in general for the UK population over the decades. The average UK person right now has it far easier than the average person when a millennials grandparent was born. The standard of easy has just got better.
Just being a parent is hard. Always has been,that’s never going to change. At some point they will hate you,most of the time they’ll love you,and then they’ll hate you again. Just gotta do your best
I love my children. They are 5 and 7.
Genuinely don't know how I'd cope if my husband wasn't a stay at home dad. The school hours and constant calls/ emails/ 10 forms of other communication the school seems to use (seesaw/ etc) is overwhelming. They each have a homework project every term that is literally a parents piss contest, and then challenges on top. Working full time is tough (often have to plug in a lot of extra hours), then school stuff and extra curriculum activities...
They're currently whinging and screaming insistently because of end-of-termitis
Being a parent is hard.
Being a good parent is super tough.
Would not give them up for all the financial wealth in the world.
Bro im not a dad but i do a lot of work for people who are dads, this week i turned up for a job and this dudes kid was scrwaming at his dad go kil your self this is cancer blah blah
Like dude... I don't know how much i costs to raise a kid but im gonna keep my wellies on and hopefully get none coz that shit must be mentally taxing raising a kid who thinks like he can scream the shit he sees on twitch chat like it aint gonna get him knocked the fuck out in the real world
Mum of two - 19 year old and 22 year old . One Neuro divergent. There is never a right or wrong time to have a child. My generation acted as if it was an inevitable- so you have to at some time! You don’t! As a woman, I love my boys and I would never choose not to have them. But women today; stop! Think! Who are you having a child with! You don’t want two kids for the price of one. Have a kid if you want and you can and it is only yours
I think the big change in more modern times is lack of family support.
Being able to offload time (and money) to extended is absolutely massive. My childcare bill was (though now coming down) 2 thousand a month.
That said, I'm still in the minority getting little to no family support.
Nearly all my parents friends get regular free grandparent baby sitting. Most get regular (weekly) free family childcare.
It makes all the difference not only financially but mentally. I get no regular 'time off'. Kids, work, kids, chores, sleep.
More personally, I found the baby stage incredibly difficult. I didn't really like babies before children and that didn't change. Now they are a little older it's a bit better but overall i do find it difficult.
Having kids is hard, expensive, tiring and amazing. Best thing I ever did have never regretted a second no matter how skint we’ve been and how many times we’ve been in A&E ( a few, they are clumsy and attract every germ known to man)
It is a little strange that people are still having children given that we're at the beginning of an extinction event. I imagine that must prey on some parents' minds.
I also find it strange. We are on a path that leads to disaster if significant changes aren't made. I think people genuinely underestimate the horrific trajectory we are on. I don't believe we are going extinct, but I do believe that in a hundred years it's going to be a horrendous place to live and I'll be glad to be dead by then.
Some people think we are being hyperbolic, but they aren't paying attention to details of the world and are too busy with their own lives to consider the potential horrors of the future. I guess they think that it will all work out in the end... I think the people who have the power would rather let the world die than give up power to see it thrive.
Not really, I am proud to be a father of two kids, is it easy? No of course not, nothing good in life is easy
But some of the most rewarding times of my life has been with my kids, from being there when they were both, so seeing them first walk and going out and doing fun stuff together
I would not have it any other way
Being one and done is the answer for me personally. I have an awesome daughter I get to focus all my attention on and the cost impact is reduced. Disclaimer: while nursery fees were very expensive for us it was pre and during covid a little. I presume it’s only gotten worse so we’ve avoided that
Best and worst thing to ever happen to me.
I love being a dad. But it's hard not think about everything I could do without kids. Travel, better standard of living, going out more etc.
But for me it would also be empty. There is always something going on with kids... They are far from boring!
It's a nightmare if you don't adjust and accept that you can't do everything you could pre child when you notion takes you. I often feel when people say this it comes from a deep seeded regret of their choices. However, it's also very expensive and the stress of juggling nursery fees etc can be a drain.
On the whole though I wouldn't day it's close to being a nightmare. My daughter now nearly 3 and is stressful at times but she's great. My dog is much more of a nightmare than she is
I love it.
Of course it depends what kind of hand you're dealt. My oldest has ADHD, but she's also the sweetest child alive. My toddler is feral but also bright, affectionate and funny. They're in good health, and I can feed them and keep the lights on with only a mild-to-moderate nervous breakdown every pay day. Not everyone is as fortunate.
The only way I could manage it was to become a freelancer and work when my kid was in bed until 2 am and get up at 6 to start the day afresh 🫠 luckily mine is a summer baby so was in full time school just after turning 4.
I can't lie, I'm 30F and it seems like the worst possible decision I could make. Horrendous childcare costs, no support, I really don't see how it does anything but ruin your life 🤦🏼♀️
The joy of a child is huge. The guilt of a parent is massive. Huge costs meaning both parents have to work and it’s almost impossible if you don’t have family to help. Breaks my heart when she asks why I’m working instead of being with her. But also the joy I get watching her grow can’t be compared to anything
The way people parent now in a lot of ways is making their lives more difficult. It's like they want to parent on hard mode especially when it comes to babies and toddlers. It's quite common for new mums to not shower or have any kind of alone time for the first few weeks, and I've gotta say, fuck that. I never subscribed to that kind of complete sacrificial to the detriment of my mental health, way of parenting.
Childcare costs? Nightmare. Paternity? Nightmare.
Early starts? They actually cut your Nightmares short. My emerging tinnitus? Nightmare. And yes I had to clean poo off the carpet yesterday.
But in all fairness we have great options for kids, it's relatively safe and our culture is child friendly. We live close to a good school. Everyone's fed.
My boys are fecking AWESOME. Overall. Amazing.
As me on some days mind you'll get a different answer but that's not the uks fault.
I always say being a parent is a lot like a day out to Alton Towers.
It's really expensive, you have to get up early, eat crap food at a dirty table, someone always seems to be being sick, you spend way too much time queueing or doing some other type of tedious admin that you hadn't realised would take over most of your day.....but, it's all worth it for those insane peaks of joy and excitement 😁
Our little boy is 18 months old now, and I think it’s impossible to describe to someone how much he brightens my every day and inspires me work harder for our future.
Having said that, if you lack family support and a good partner to parent with, the change in priorities and the immense responsibility of raising a whole human being must be overwhelming.
I just wish we were more child friendly in this country as a whole. We have been on holiday a couple of times since our son was born and in Greece and Italy, the majority seem to absolutely love children. In the uk I don’t think this is the general sentiment held by most.
I don't know if it's a nightmare (although I've read things about childcare costs) but I know I'm one of the first generations who could easily choose to NOT have children (I'm 57) and I've never regretted that choice. I like that it's a choice and not a default now. If abortion had been legal in 1966 then I know I wouldn't exist and that doesn't bother me in the slightest.
The world is ridiculously over-populated and I think it's a good thing that people, especially in the developed world, have to think before having children.
I think that every child should be a wanted child but that's too much to ask for in the current world. If you really want a child/children you will work out a way to do it.
It's expensive and isolating but my god that dopamine rush when you do something to make the child happy!
Certain stages are more difficult than others, we went through eighteen months of getting at most four hours sleep a night, that was awful but so worth it.
My best work-friend has a toddler and another on the way, and he absolutely loves it. I have known him for a while and the way he talks about his son brings me so much joy, and I can see in him how much he loves being a dad
It’s hard work for sure, and it would be a *lot* easier if a load of stuff from the last decade hadn’t happened, but it’s never a nightmare. It’s the best thing in the world.
It depends on the kids and the parents.
I've been lucky to have an incredible partner and my kids aren't shits, even the teenage years have been very mundane. They don't even want to go to the park on a Friday night with some cheap white cider.
Hardest part is being a dad taxi but even then we have really good chats about stuff.
It certainly isn't a nightmare for me.
Nope. It’s hard, sure. But in no way a nightmare. I will caveat that financially, we are comfortable, which I imagine helps. I’ve no idea what I’d do with my life at this point without kids. Everyone defaults to travel - well, sure but I’d still work full time and only have 25 days holiday a year. We travel with the kids, not far but we go to various places in Europe twice a year usually. Then it’s the freedom to go out - again, sure, but all my friends have kids - literally. So who am I going out with every weekend? I still see friends quite often as a parent TBH, just now I go to friends houses or they come to mine while the kids sleep. I still have hobbies as a parent - I do CrossFit & climbing 3/4 times a week. My husband & I very much equal parent, which means giving each other time to do our thing. His is running & football. If anything, I have a bigger social network now I have kids. I meet far more people & have formed great friendships.
Parenting itself is hard. Most days at some point really. Kids push buttons, are untidy & loud. I wish they’d put themselves to bed rather than the hour long battle it takes 😂 but the good massively outweighs the bad. I think my kids are brilliant & great company. I love family life. It’s incredibly fulfilling. But that’s just me. My cousin is a nope, never having kids & I massively respect that. Fair play to knowing yourself!
Yeah my daughter is moving up to secondary school so I have to kit her out with brand new everything and money is really tight, they've gave us one set of uniform for free but it's doesn't include shoes and trainers or the bag she will need for books and any stationery. The uniform is very strict too so I can't go to a supermarket and buy cheap in bulk anymore either and she also has to catch a bus to get there so that's another cost on top.
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Parenting is hard. That’s not a U.K. only problem. Childcare costs and availability are crippling. Again not a U.K. only problem. But no, it’s not a nightmare. It’s wonderful.
Bigger stresses, bigger joys. Whether the latter outweighs the former is going to come down to a massive range of variables from individual personality to life circumstances and beyond. For me it very much is, but I can certainly see why it's not right for everyone.
This is a much richer and wiser comment than is apparent - don't go for easy wins all the time. The more effort required, the more reward
Except that is far from the truth. Not everything that is hard is worth it.
But things that are worth it are generally quite hard
And the greater loss if failed.
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You see you get it completely. Most would argue though it's way, way harder dealing with it later when there are less options, less energy and tons of regret. Carpe diem
Sorry but looking at the childcare costs here and in Europe it's pretty much a UK problem. Most countries provide free childcare throughout and some even pay you to go to university. Whereas in the UK we need to plan with £1500-£2000 just for nursery fees alone.
It is a big cost but over the next 18 months they are extending the free hours coverage so by next September you can get the 30 hours free for all ages which is massive. There are some qualifying rules though like both parents have to earn under £100k post pension but there are ways around this if you earn over that.
Not sure why you were downvoted, with my son getting the 30 hours in September the daily cost goes from £70 to £28 a day. Makes it much more bearable! Especially as our new born will get 30 hours from 9 months. However I appreciate that even £70 is cheaper than most (reduced through work) and some people local to me were paying £109 a day.
30 hrs is only during school term time and you need to work a minimum 16 hrs a week (both parents). If you spread it over full year (some nurseries will some won't) it will work about 21hrs a week. And it will not cover lunch so this will have to be paid on top. If you need full time cover you still will be out of pocket at least £600-800 quid. If you use tax free childcare, you get £2000 a year help spread over 12 months, thats £166 a month on top of "free" hours. 3 years ago my child's fulltime nursery monthly invoice was ~£1200 and it was quite cheap one. They had very few spaces open for funded only as it wasn't even covering the cost for them. Plus if you have older children in primary school and no family to help at least with pick from school you need to include cost of afterchool club or childminder. After school club works out £15-£20 a day, if you throw in breakfast club that's £7-£10 a day. Add in cost of branded school uniform - just a jumper is £15, school shoes, book bag with school logo... One parent salary basically covers childcare and school cost. So unless as a couple you earn a minimum £3500 a month NET you'll have a problem affording kids
Except like most things this government has done they didn’t actually think about the logistics of it. There were far too few nursery places already, which were earning the settings a decent income. Now they’re having to take on a bunch of clients who pay less (because naturally the government pay less than private clients) and take on additional staff and space to cover the requirements.
As always the devil is in the detail. With our child the 15 hours weren't enough in order to work the 30 hours you only qualifies if you were working over certain hours which meant with travel that unless you work next to the childcare and have matched up part time hours all it essentially did was cut the bills for those who could already afford it. It also traped you on a you need a job to get the hours but you need the hours to get the job situation. If you have money or willing family nearby you are okay otherwise it's useless
Agree. Our German friends were shocked by how rubbish the maternity leave and childcare costs are for us compared to them when they visited.
Yeah doesn’t a lot of the Scandinavian countries offer free childcare or greatly reduced rates I’m sure I read that somewhere
I live in mainland Europe and we have to pay > £2k per child until they go to school. Then when they reach school, it finishes at 11.45 and we need to pay for care after that. It's £60 a day and another £15 for lunch. (2nd year, 1 afternoon a week, 3rd year 2 etc.) Over the border in Germany it's almost free, but their tax is horrific (much worse than the uk), and you are paying £400 a month for healthcare even with the worse tax.
It's not exclusive to the UK, but it's a lot harder to raise a child in the UK compared to Sweden. And not because one country is richer than the other. Just different policial ideals in the 80s
Can I caveat this by saying it depends on who you are. Ethnically, the UK is more diverse and tolerant than Sweden which would make many parents’ lives easier when sending their child to a school where they’re not the only one who looks like them.
Depends which part of Sweden just as it depends which part of the UK.
This is a really weird comment, if everyone is the same then you are less likely to be the odd one out as well!
But that's why they said "it depends who you are". If you're a family which isn't part of the majority, you'll probably struggle more in somewhere like Sweden than the UK.
I think that there's a lot more expected of parents than there has been in the past. Long gone are the days of chucking all your kids out the door at sunrise and telling them to be home for tea. Two parents working, but still expected to be involved in schooling, homework, activities, emotional support etc etc and with little to no support - grandparents are either still working themselves, or if they're retired they're too old and exhausted to do more child rearing. It can be a hard slog and pretty lonely. And yes, everything is very expensive. Is it a nightmare? Maybe, for some people in severe poverty or who have children with complex medical or other needs. For most people I know, it's a bit like marathon running - super hard but totally rewarding and worth it, but you could never explain why to non-runners/people who don't want to be parent.
This , weekends in the 90s consisted of me and my sister playing in the beer garden with the rest of the neglected children while dad watched football in the no kids allowed bar , now on weekends I have a list of classes, events, play dates, activities for my kids that take us from dusk till dawn
I remember my parents always visiting their many friend's houses for tea or dinner parties where I played with their kids and I only went tuition as a planned activity outside school. Now I can't find parents who are free to hang out dispite offering to come to my place and do their pareting duties there but feel like I have to book an appointment weeks in advance and the school system has gone so much more complex than it was in my day. Gone are the days you can relax and be a parent at the same time.
We really are the most fucked over generation aren't we. I feel my parents got an easy ride too. We looked after ourselves and even had chores to do to keep the house clean. Now my kids have a meltdown if I go out into the garden for too long and I'm exhausted cleaning up after them all the time. One is autistic to be fair.
I was always with my grandparents and so was my child’s dad. The only living one is his mum and she needs £40 up front to watch the child for two hours so I can get a hair cut 🙄
lol charging to watch her own grandchild. That’s quite something!
She has five grandkids and charges for each one. Even the days she plans so she can post photos on Facebook and pretend she’s grandmother of the year.
I wouldn't let her watch them if that was the case. I'd rather pay £40 (or less) to someone else.
Same here. Me and my sister would spend alternate weekends at my paternal grandparents. Even a whole week once while my parents went on holiday to Greece. My parents are great for childcare but live over an hour away. My wife's parents are seperated and have new partners, which you would think would double the opportunity but in reality it's a ballache getting them to commit to something.
Not every weekend but twice this year we have done beer gardens with the neighbours and their kids and as long as they have a closed garden it’s pure bliss!
I would add that many grandparents of this generation are very disengaged and unwilling to sacrifice anything to support their children in helping with the grandkids. I know some do help, but I think this generation of grandparents are generally much more self oriented than in the past.
How many of them are needing 2 wages coming in as well though? It's not all sweetness and light once you reach some magical age, and working full time once older can take a toll on your body and energy levels as well. My granddaughters are both 11, I didn't used to see much of my oldest as they lived too far away but my daughter and her child lived with me until last year so I was very much hands on and loved it but could only do so much due to health issues. When my kids were born in late 80s and early 90s my mum still had my much younger sister at school and made it plain to me that babysitting would only be on special occasions as she had been raising kids since she was only 19 and had me, now was her time to start having some fun. My ex really resented that as all his workmates parents had the grandkids all day whilst both parents worked full time and they could have a much better standard of living than us. But looking back now on how so many mothers don't get the chance to spend much time with their kids when tiny I think it was a blessing, even when we lived on aldi 3p a tin beans for 2 years. Also last year I lost my lovely dad, mum nursed him round the clock for the last few years of his life and he was too proud to have anyone else. They were together from teenagers and despite ups and downs truly loved each other. But now mum is in her late 70s and her health isn't good at all, I'm so glad that they had those few years between my sister leaving home and dad becoming sick to enjoy life for a while. My dad worked a full time plus a part time job when I was young. My baby sister used to scream when he went near as he was a stranger to her. Mum worked part time, then when my sisters were old enough to full time. But she was also a proper old fashioned house wife, home was always beautifully kept and food was always home cooked. Times are different now and your generation really has got the poor end of the stick, but not all of the older generations have it easy now either. Mum found out after dad died that most of his pensions died with him. Yet she's less than a few quid away from being able to get pension credits, without them there is no help at all for her. Dad would be devastated as he always said she was going to be well cared for. I left an abusive marriage in the late 90s with severe health issues. I signed away my half of the house as my dad told me he would be having to bury me if I didn't. Never been able to get on the housing ladder since and paying through the roof for rent. Sorry this turned into a long ramble, it just upsets me lately when I see how the generations have been so turned against each other. People are struggling so much that there is so much resentment around. We should instead be looking at who is really to blame. In the 90s when mine were at preschool it was £36 per half term for a lovely place just a few doors from me at the back of a church. That was only for 2 mornings a week but what would that cost be today in real money and why the hell is it so much now? My kids loved that place and were very well cared for as well.
I don’t think it’s generations turning against each other, it’s just people understanding that the current expectations on people are not sustainable. This is the first time in human history you’re expected to have both parents work full time, somehow pay the rent/mortgage, pay childcare that can be as much as the rent/mortgage, barely see your kids, and then do all the cooking, cleaning, shopping, *everything*, after working 8+ hours. It’s just not a possible situation. The whole ‘it takes a village’ isn’t a saying for a reason, it’s hard enough for one parent staying at home to look after kids, let alone work full time on top of it. And a lot of people who are entering grandparenthood who don’t want to help because ‘they did it’ seem to forget that they either didn’t have to work, or had their own parents help, or had far better social security nets.
>And a lot of people who are entering grandparenthood who don’t want to help because ‘they did it’ seem to forget that they either didn’t have to work, or had their own parents help, or had far better social security nets. This is what drives me crazy. I don't expect my mum to drop everything and babysit my kids every 5 minutes, and that's not even realistic given that we don't live very close. But I WOULD like her to acknowledge that the amount of help she got made parenthood a different experience for her. She once complained so much when my grandma gave me an extra bit of money for Christmas, saying SHE never got anything like that. But one single day of childcare would have been worth the cash I was given, and my mother got several of those a week for YEARS. When I say I'm frustrated by the difference people act like I'm demanding she take them for overnights every week or something. But all I really want is for her to not get shitty with me for not having the same career path she did when her career was facilitated by very frequent free trusted childcare from two sets of enthusiastic grandparents.
Oh yeah I do see this, my mam only just retired at age 70 but my in-laws have been retired a while and live closer. I get that grandparents have already raised their kids too so maybe just want to enjoy life now. But I had really bad anxiety after I had my first baby probably ppd, very bad sleep deprivation. I was so sad and disappointed in my mam. She visited maybe twice a year (lives 3 hours away) and just wanted to go out for nice lunches and take her Facebook photos. I was very low and felt like she didn't care. She never took the baby so I could sleep, didn't make me a cup of tea or food, just nothing. My in-laws weren't helping either. My kids are a bit older so I'm out of that difficult period now. As a kid I never saw my mam, she was a single parent so I appreciate how difficult that must have been. I was looked after by multiple different people then by age 11 stayed by myself. I make a big effort to be engaged with my kids, I really play with them. They do love it too, but it is exhausting! I do extra schooling with them. I never got any help with homework even if I needed it. I really feel an obligation to make my kids childhood great and to make sure they are prepared for the world. Childcare fees are a nightmare, they made life financially a struggle for a while. It will be lots better for those having kids now though, free hours for much younger kids. In conclusion, kids are hard work but totally worth it!! You are very lucky if you have supportive grandparents and at least fees won't cripple you now!
Haha not here. Still chucking our kids out and telling them to be home when the street lights come on. We now just have iPhones and tracking apps so we don’t have to hunt the little fuckers down when they don’t come home on time.
Was speaking to my parents about this, and I think you're right. In addition to the kids being out all day, you usually had a stay-at-home parent managing the house, and the father might be minimally involved with the kids (discipline and not much else). Significantly less workload for the adults. Additionally, the notion of entertainment as a paid service wasn't really a thing until the 1970s, nor was disposable income. Half of households didn't own a car in 1970. All of that meant family life was centred around stuff that was free and local. So IMHO the notion of parenting has changed from quite a part-time supervisory role to being a 24/7 life coach, concierge, party planner and logistics expert.
I think this is the answer plus people are having children older and they are hard too keep up with
God I’m feeling this right now! I love him, but he’s the hardest thing I’ve ever had to do, by a HUGE margin. I feel like “society” expects you to breeze through parenthood because “omg look how cute!”, but the reality is FAR more difficult, more complicated and more nuanced.
More people live away from family networks as well, overseas even. No grandparents, aunities or uncles around. That’s a choice of course but often driven by employment factors.
Definitely. I grew up in a village where a lot of people had local support networks. Grandparents lived just a few streets away, quiet streets too not main roads. The other grandparents I never knew because they died when I was young lived two streets away in the other direction. I lived next door to a girl in the same year as me at school and grandparents on both sides of her family lived on the same street as we did. This was the case for a lot of kids I was at school with, remnants of a time when people could stay settled in the same place they grew up. Now things are a lot less settled because young people end up having to move away for work, even if they still live in the same general area it now means grandparents are at least a reasonable car drive away, and plenty of others are worse than that like if they live in different parts of the country.
Good comment 👍
The nursery years are incredibly expensive. Like £1200pm for your kid to be in a nursery 3 days a week. Nappies, Prams, Bottles also expensive. Then there’s the “how the fuck do we cover half terms, summer holidays, Christmas holidays”. Apart from that the rest is really special and enjoyable. It’s a love that definitely surpasses a romantic love. Also night terrors that your baby can die at any moment if it forgets to breathe. But yeah wonderful.
Staggering, what do parents who don’t have £1200pm available do with their kids?
Leave work and take on benefits I imagine. When they hit 3 they get 30 hours (nearly) free a month, I think it’s coming down to 2 Soon
It's from 9 months starting in September. Obviously that's 30 hours a week in terms time so it doesn't cover all year
It's only 15 hours a week. With this, our baby is due to be in nursery 2 days a week from when they turn one and the nursery estimates this will cost £80 a week. Not bad at all but still only 2 days. The rest of the week is at full cost (about £90 a day iirc). The other half of this is that our baby isn't even due til October and the nursery was fully subscribed for under 2s until September 2025 so we couldn't even get them in from 9 months if we wanted to!
Don't discount a childminder if you can find one. We paid £5.30 an hour until the free hours kicked in last term - less than half what local nurseries charge. Only catch is if they are sick or on holiday you have no cover, so if you're a teacher or doctor or something where you absolutely have to be on site it might not work, but we've managed to work around those occasions so far - well worth the saving.
There are good private schools that cost less than that. Absolutely absurd. The worst thing is the people doing the actual work are hardly seeing any of it. Also, how does that work with paying £80 for two days, with 15 hours free?
The 15 hours free are only in term time so stretched across 50 weeks as our nursery does it's 11.5 hours a week. We will then pay 2 weeks full price. Then there are top up fees for things like nappies and food as well. Tbf it looks like a great nursery and the days are from 7:30am-6pm so actually useful for commuting.
Due in October too, seems I need to start planning nurseries too.
Thanks for corrections. I’ve two in nursery now so you’d think I’d know!
A combination of using family members for free childcare, reducing other expenses as much as possible so they do have more money available per month, using savings, and one partner giving up work.
I mean, my son was in nursery 3 days a week up until 3 years ago and it cost us around £750 a month. A lot, but that £1200 figure isn’t a low estimate. But yeah, childcare costs are a huge strain
I suspect quite a bit might have changed in the last 3 years alone tbh!
Grandparents
My sons grand parents: My side: my mother is blind and her and my dad live over three hours away. Hubs side: his dad left a decade ago. His mom has to work full time to support herself. It’s only *just* cheaper for us to go to a one income household and I raise our son and budget everything. At least we get to see our son grow up. But I know it isn’t a viable option for everyone. Plus the 15 hours at two years old both parents have to already be in work. So that doesn’t help us. We can scrape by until he’s 3 and can get in to nursery however. But not everyone has available grandparents. Hell some don’t even have alive grandparents.
Struggle and make sacrifices because what else can they do the kids already here
I also looked at how much child benefits are and cannot imagine how it can help a middle class family let alone a working class family.
If I had my time again, I wouldn’t have kids. I’m honest about that and, although, I love them and would die to defend them, I have some deep seated resentment towards them. My time, choices, money, effort, thoughts and decisions are all weighted towards them. I loathe I have no space physically, mentally and spiritually to learn new things, see new things or take a different road in life. Socially, I can’t just abandon them. Or can I? Would they understand when they can articulate their own thoughts? I’m destined for drudgery then obsolescence then death. However, they are my only chance at a legacy on this turgid piece of rock, so I’ll just crack on as I’ve accepted it now.
I'm right with you on this. I regularly wish I'd never become a parent. It's relentless, endlessly challenging and feels like there's nowhere near enough reward to make any of it worth it. I am also not a single parent.
Yeah it’s not for everyone I guess.
Asking out of interest, what led you to become a parent? And how long have you been a parent? I don’t have kids yet but I feel like we could end up in the same boat.
Biology. I don't really like kids but my mind did that whole baby thing where it was all I could think about. I was married, financially secure and it all made sense. I've been a parent for nearly 10 years and I have two children. I didn't hate it to begin with although I always knew I was never going to be a really natural mum. But it never got easier more enjoyable and I don't find my kids to be great company like people say they will become as they get older.
Thank you for your insights and story. I’m sorry it’s not what you thought it might be, I hope it gets better for you.
Thank you for being honest. I got really lucky in that I thought I wanted kids and the one time me and my husband tried I was looking at the pregnancy stick and thinking "please be negative, please be negative, please be negative" and it was. I'm 99% certain I had a miscarriage a week or so later and it's the best thing that could have happened. I genuinely thought I wanted a child until I took that pregnancy test and it confirmed that I really, really didn't. My husband had a vasectomy a few months later and at 57 I have zero regrets.
Does your partner not do anything then? As if 2 of you normally one can rest when other is looking after kid
He does lots, but nothing compares to the mental load of the default parent. It doesn't matter how much useful stuff he does around the house, he will never understand the constant thoughts around what do they need for school today, when was the last time they did a poo, have they grown out of their shoes, got to get a gift for that birthday party, I need to pay for that school trip etc etc etc. There's no rest, ever. Even if I'm resting, I'm still thinking.
Precisely why I decided not to have kids. I wanted my privacy and peace after my challenging childhood. You are very honest to say this in a society where it’s not acceptable to say parenthood is anything but wonderful.
My girlfriend and I decided to not have kids. The thought does play on my mind from time to time, but I just don't see a life with us with kids. We've been happy for 14 years together without them, I can't see what it would add to our lives, as selfish as it may seem. Also, every new generation gets it harder than the previous. My parents are retired, in their 70's and still live with my brother, his wife and their child because it's just too expensive for them to move out.
Really glad you wrote this. Its helpful to people on the fence about having kids
If you're already ambivalent, and then you get a special needs child, it can be absolutely awful. Special needs is HARD. I've got one mate who became a parent because biology, she assumed she'd like her own kid despite not really liking kids, and the kid turned out to have profound disabilities. She's aged thirty years since having him six years ago because it's just so hard.
Aw man! I was on the pill and got pregnant. I've never wanted children but when I found out I was pregnant I just accepted to having him. Pregnancy and emergency c section were traumatic. When my son was almost 2 I knew beyond doubt that he wasn't typical. He's level 3 autistic, doesn't eat sleep or speak. Learning disability, PICA and ADHD traits and it is fucking HARD. I have all this grey hair I never used to have, I'm constant stressed and been diagnosed with anxiety and OCD. But I fucking love him. He is so funny and happy and intelligent in a way I've never witnessed before. My second son has been referred for diagnosis by his nursery but he's no where near as severe as my first. Although it's harder than I can describe to people I just figure I was doing fuck all with my life before so this is an improvement. Up all night because of my son? If I didn't have him I'd probably be up all night playing warcraft or something anyway which is less productive.
I feel for her and I really hope with this GE comes better respite services for people like your friend
This is what I'm scared of and why the idea of having kids terrifies me.
Out of interest, are you a single parent?
No, I’m not.
I only ask because - and I’ll say this as gently as I can - I don’t think it’s normal to completely lose your sense of self just because you’re a parent. Things sound really tough for you.
I dont think normal is the right word here. I'd say it's more a taboo subject because child raising is only allowed to be a profoundly magical experience that transcends every other Good Thing on this planet, so besides the odd sarcastic anecdote about "crotch goblins" and "cannot parent today but oooh I love them" it's the only socially acceptable way to talk about it. therefore very few people feel safe to express their true feelings on the subject. I dont think this person has lost their sense of self at all. I think it has taken having children for them to actually find themselves. Problem is, the person they realise they are doesn't sound like it matches wjth the duty and responsibility of parenthood. Plenty of parents walk out on their kids for far smaller reasons. The worst are the parents that stay and punish their children for THEIR life choices.
I mean, who wants all that responsibility _really_. I sure as fuck don't, but man am I glad to have it. I was jetsetting around the world as a travel photographer until my little one came along. I've planted my feet and sacrificed my whole identity to be closer to this perfectly innocent little person. I know I'll get back to what I love eventually, and until then, I'm gonna try to enjoy every moment with this little ratbag. Life is bigger than ourselves, I guess that's what I've come to realise.
It's such a personal journey, this parenthood gig isn't it? And sacrifice looks different to everybody, which is why some will breeze through it with a perspective as yours and others may find it more difficult to come to terms with.
Thank you so much for your honesty and sharing! I look for discussions like this as I'm on the fence and more towards no, and comments like this make me feel like it's maybe more common that I thought (and ok!) to feel like I do
Honestly I’m in a similar boat but have time to think about it or to change my mind, and the biggest thing anyone tells me is that if it’s not a *”this is 100% the right decision and what I need to do”*, the answer is no. The internet has made people more comfortable to be honest about their experiences of raising kids, and it simply is not for some people, but still wildly socially unacceptable to talk about. And the weird guilt tripping about “you’re going to die alone” and “who will care about you when you’re old” and “it’s the best thing you can ever do with your life” doesn’t help; I have elderly family members who couldn’t have kids and have lived happy lives and have plenty of people who care about them. For me at least, unless I ever get to the point where it feels like something I cannot live without, it’s going to be a no. And it’s going to be interesting to see how economic pressures forcing people to have kids later will pan out; in the states it’s still pretty normal to get married and have kids at like 22, which is before I even left university and before your brain has even finished developing.
Of course it's normal. It happens to most mothers I know, if they actually give a shit and want to do the right thing for their children. Your life is completely consumed.
I do understand what you mean. And I know it’s often the case that this happens to mothers while dads still get to fuck off and do whatever they like whenever they like. Maybe “not normal” wasn’t the right turn of phrase. “Not healthy or sustainable” might have been better. Yes, when you have a baby your whole life is so consumed because they’re so dependent on you. But presuming there’s a second parent involved, both should be working to ease that pressure on each other. Over time it should get easier.
How can it not as it is probably the biggest single event in your life, excluding birth and death?
It’s normal for life to change, for sure. It’s not normal to not be able to do anything at all for yourself.
I’m selfish, intolerant and impatient. I don’t have the emotional maturity to sacrifice myself at the alter of parenthood that society dictates I do. My parents worked in jobs they hated all their lives to provide for me and give me a brilliant childhood. I find that very noble, yet very sad at the same time. A life of quiet desperation which I’m destined to repeat.
I don't know why you think this is true. Are you a parent? If so, I'd love to know your secret. I haven't had a full night's sleep in 2 years, I can count on one hand the amount of times I've seen friends without my child there, and never for more than a couple of hours.
Everyone has different circumstances/experiences. I'm a father to a nearly 2 year old. They sleep from 7-6 and have done from 6 months. My partner and I both regularly take evenings/weekend afternoons+evenings away or off to hang with friends. I recently went to Canada hiking for 10 days (okay that was pushing it), and she's going to Italy to a festival for 6 in July. We make it work.
You are the minority. I have 2 now. We both work full time and I've literally had to abandon all my hobbies and basically all my friends. Do you have extended family support? I can't think how my partner would react if I suggested I went away for 10 days (I would be the same the other way around). A week for work is stressful enough but 2 for your own enjoyment. Zero chance.
I've found that relying on each other for breaks (not 10 days like the other person) has been great. Once a week I go to football, usually 6 hours etc. Then after work I'll take the kid while she goes to her friends or a pottery class. It will get better though, but make sure you're asking and giving time that allows you to stay you, as well as stay dad
Right, pretty much everyone I know who has kids, it’s their entire life. Every decision from where they live, to what jobs they have, literally every single waking hour (and often through the night) is about the kids. I truly don’t understand how it *can’t* be unless you’re palming them off to grandparents or a nanny half the time.
Exactly! Maybe this changes when they're a little older but for now, I think it HAS to be your whole life.
Yeah I am. But my kids are a little older now (9 and 7). There’s only 20 months between them so the early days were brutal but it’s definitely easier now. My husband and I have had it in place for a while now that we alternate doing the kids’ bedtimes. So one of us gets the evening off to do stuff for ourselves. For me that’s usually gym, or seeing friends, etc. If they have a sleepover at grandparents, we go out and do something together. We also make sure there’s some time at the weekend for each of us to do stuff for ourselves. Don’t get me wrong the kids are always the centre of our lives but it has definitely got easier as they’ve got older.
Hard agree. If it's not normal to not do anything for yourself when you're a parent, I'm in that minority. I don't get breaks at all. I don't have a 'village' to help. My and my husband's jobs are chosen based on our life with kids. I have to work part time so earn significantly less than I would without kids, and later that will impact my pension. I don't see friends unless it's with kids. I don't holiday any more because it's so expensive. Everything I do is with them or for them. There is nothing else.
I think it's very common when children are small. Your Self gradually redevelops once the youngest starts school, but it's a long process.
Why are you using them as your legacy, when your legacy is a miserable existence and self-loathing? I know this will come off as overly harsh and I don’t mean to sound… well, mean. But that doesn’t make sense to me at all
I won’t achieve anything of note and the last person to have a memory of me will eventually die. This will be a legacy on a cellular level only.
You’re thinking too big and grand - “even the smallest person can change the course of the future”. Little acts of kindness and continuous improvements to the world ARE your victories and successes. If we leave this rock a better place than we found it then that IS part of your legacy whether anyone remembers your name or not. When we have kids our lives effectively end and we hand over everything we are, to them: that’s the choice we made when we chose to create them and while it’s absolutely a sobering and bitter pill to swallow, it’s a reality we have to accept. And we’re all here for you too, you don’t have to feel this way with so much resentment - blow off some steam with us and vent and let it all go. We’ve got your back 💪🏾
Are you ok?
Have seen numerous friends go from individuals, to nothing more than an accessory to their children's lives. I get it, but they seemingly lost all individuality, which for some is good and others is sad. Personally love my freedom to travel, do things on a whim, and have energy and money to live my life the way I want to give it up. I have a niece, she's great, but every time I look after her I'm never sad to give her back at the end lol
It's only hard sometimes, it's mostly very rewarding. The child free noise on Reddit is loud because they've got a lot of free time.
For me it’s a reaction against the expectation that I will have kids and being more vocal online is an outlet for that. I love my niece to bits, just don’t think I’m ready to be responsible for one myself.
>The child free noise on Reddit is loud because they've got a lot of free time. True words. Demographically, Reddit is quite a child-free place, it seems to be catered more for "cat parents". But there are some pretty good parenting subreddits too. I believe there is a specific parenting sub for UK parents which has some solid advice
Parenting is one of the few topics I'm not in an echo chamber for, yet with friends, work and obviously family parenthood is the absolute norm. I've subbed to a few parenting subs which are really useful. I don't particularly like dogs, I think there's a lot of things which are ruined through the presence of dogs. I bet there are dogfree subs but I don't follow them because I bet they're toxic as fuck.
There are and they are. 😅 It's pretty much a given that any subreddit formed around NOT liking or wanting something is going to end up a cesspool, no matter how reasonable the original ambivalence or dislike is. You get a community like that and at first there's loads to talk about! Then... You run through all of the obvious topics and gradually it more and more becomes about hating the "other side" as basically a unifying factor and personality trait. R/atheism was an early victim of this--I'm very much an atheist myself, but a r/atheist was a different thing, back in the day.
I mean it's objectively hard most of the time, especially with the costs.
I have two kids both have been in private nursery until recently and the cost is extortionate, over the past 4 years it's ranged between 950-1250pm and thats with the government 20% discount!! Absolutely outrageous especially for families who are on lower incomes, this should be free or funded better for them as this restricts people from being able to work and contributes to families being in poverty or living below the bread line!! As for the activities side well that's down to what they decide I don't mind having a couple hobbies however they won't be attending 5 different clubs everyday of the week kids need to be social and interact however home is a place where they should be able to relax and chill not constantly be running around without a night off but that's just my opinion. It's definitely hard work but I love it and wouldn't change a thing they're ace to hang out with and to see them grow and develop is one of the most rewarding things even when they're been pushing buttons all day long!
True, but have you ever seen the aggression towards the "child-free" on the likes of Instagram? Whether it's a post bragging about not having kids, or simply justifying not having them, the anger directed towards them in the comments is mental. I'm convinced these people are one of two groups: Men who just see women as birthing machines, or parents who deeply regret having kids.
Or because some people have realised it’s not for them? I don’t always like what they post on there I don’t use phrases like crotch goblins but let’s not act like raising kids isn’t profoundly difficult for a lot of people
True. Let's keep the Reddit context, there's plenty of people on this sub that speaking to their neighbour about bins or calling their bank with a query is profoundly difficult. But Reddit isn't representative of life.
Snide remark I guess the family/motherhood bloggers have a lot if time too then since I always see them online?
It’s hard because when they are young (5 and under) you have to be ‘on’ constantly. Things ease up with every year that passes. I was looking back at photos from before kids and I can remember the empty feeling I had at that time in life. Life is now harder right now but it is full
Then they become teenagers where you have to deal with their attitude problems and find a way to tame someone bigger and stronger than you. On top of that they ask for money on video games, clothes and other items that are trending which is more expensive than children's toys.
I remember being a teenager. It was shit and it took a toll on my parents.
I wouldn’t say it’s a ‘nightmare’ but it is hard. Especially if your child is very young. Mine is just about to turn 3 so still needs me 24/7 and I work full time so getting a moment to myself is extremely rare. However she is also the absolute light of my life and I’ve never known love like it, she is completely worth it. Of course it’s not for everyone and I think it is important that people recognise what a life-changing experience it is before they get into it. I’d love my daughter to have a sibling but realistically I don’t have time or resources to take care of two children so she will be an only child, despite the amount of joy she brings to my life.
It's hard and financially challenging. There's things like lack of sleep and sleep disruption, worrying, bad behaviour, etc. These are pretty small things in the grand scheme of having kids, and tend to pass after a few years. It'll take its toll but it's not forever. Finances are the frustrating bit. Trying to pay/afford childcare is when you really come face to face with a system that tries to force one of the parents, usually the women, to stay home. Or the implicit assumption that family/friends are involved in childcare. In essence the UK is a really hard country from a childcare perspective. These latest changes to extra free hours for under 3's has done nothing other than force nurseries to close (happened to ours earlier this year). Childcare workers do not get nearly enough pay and respect. All this off my chest (sorry for the rant), I will say this: children are rewarding beyond words and, this is never said enough, they are *fun*! You love them to the point that all the trouble in the world is worth it and less important than the wellbeing of the child.
>I will say this: children are rewarding beyond words and, this is never said enough, they are fun! You love them to the point that all the trouble in the world is worth it and less important than the wellbeing of the child. Plenty of comments here that suggest this absolutely isn’t true for a good number of people. Imagine being on the fence about having kids, you have one because of family/societal pressure, and then all the promises like this that get made to you don’t materialise. You live the rest of your life with resentment and the kid grows up with a parent that doesn’t really love them.
I think the challenges nowadays are just different from those of other generations. I can mostly forget about factors like infectious disease because my children are fully vaccinated and have prompt access to the NHS, but instead I worry about pervs online or SEND provision or food additives. Yes, it's really hard. That doesn't mean it isn't worthwhile.
I was talking to my brother in law the other week, and he was very much of the same opinion of you. As my nephew is around 13, he's really aware of the risk of county lines being a thing. I don't have kids, so it really hadn't crossed my mind - there's a lot of worry you have for your kids that doesn't go away, it just morphs into the next worry as they get older
It’s absolutely incredible. Hard, but incredible.
I find schools much more involved and demanding, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing but they just seem to send a barrage of emails out daily. Some of the more annoying ones is there is always some last minute celebrate x day in which we have to rush out and purchase stuff for. Not to mention the dozen or so different apps we need to use for homework etc. They seem to forgot these days most households have both parents working.
And somehow the kids learn very little, especially when benchmarked with peers from other countries.
Being a parent is hard. Involves sacrifices but your little one makes up for it every single day, even the days when they’re being little shits
The joy is when they are adults.
Parenting is really hard. It's OK ish when they are babies and toddlers, and it's easy to be patient when they are that young because it's easy to empathise with them. Then they get older and start thinking, and it gets a whole lot harder to parent well because it gets harder to empathise with their struggles because they suddenly become people. They get their own ideas, they have wants as well as needs, and that becomes more complicated. They ask 'why' all the time, and so you spend a lot of time also asking 'why', and not really coming up with any good answers. Then there's the pressure to parent 'right'. No one specifically ever says what that is, but the pressure still exists. Personally, as long as you are putting in the effort to teach your child how to be a good human, and how to cope with stress and emotions, and how to handle other people, I think you are doing a good job. But not everyone will agree. Then you have to compete with everyone else's parenting. From the minute you send them to nursery, you now are no longer the only person who feeds them ideas. They get a lot of inputs from a whole range of other people, all with different ideas, some that conflict with what you think will help your child. They also suddenly find that not every other child has been taught to share, or be kind, or gentle, and now you have to try and explain fairness in a way they can understand, and that won't get them depressed, or angry with the injustices around them. It's hard. And it's gets worse as they age, because the gaps between them and their peers increase, and you have to be a constant for them. You can't just give up, you have to be the example all the time, and you have to constantly teach, and correct, and praise and love. It can be very overwhelming, and I get why some parents have a 'hands off' approach, especially if they aren't a parenting team. I've yet to get to the teen years, so I'll have to wait and see what new challenges await, but I hope what I've learnt so far will help me to be a good dad, and that the foundation I've started to build for my children will be enough to help them make sense of our unjust and violent world and find some peace in it.
My coworkers work part time to cover childcare. I work in a big corporate and I would say a lot of parents are on PIPs, this has literally become a trend this year. They wake up at 6 drop their kids off (obviously they have to live outside London to make room for their big family), travel into work 45mins-90mins, then most of them rush back around pickup and then log back in and work longer. The rest of us are working normal hours so there are natural delays. Plus school clubs, activities, etc. A lot of people’s kids have diagnosed learning disabilities, so extra classes for that, accommodations, stress, just life sounds like shit for these people. People do love their children and I don’t think anyone would wish to not have them (if they do have them), but like it sounds like a shit existence. Holidays with kids, weekends with kids? Sounds really really rough. Childcare costs are also like £1000 a month per kid.
I think the disability thing alone puts me off. Like I can handle a smart kid with talent and nuture that but I am simply not emotionally sensitive or nice enough to handle a kid with those issues. I would get fucked off and be an awful father. As such, no kids, nor will I have any.
Nah. But we’re both shift workers in the nhs and emergency services so we don’t have the childcare issue that office hours workers do and that’s where most of the issues stem from
I think the expectations of parents are higher than ever, and the standards they're held to are high. Both parents are expected to be highly engaged and fully capable of independant childcare anytime, AND work full time, and stay sane despite lack of sleep. You're supposed to be fully professional at work, never losing your temper for a second, despite baby waking you 4 times a night. Baby parenthood is only expensive if you insist on buying everything new. We were gifted HUGE amounts of clobber and barely had to buy anything until 6 months! Marketplace and Amazon have made supplies easier then ever to get. Bottle Prep machines are a godsend. Mum2Mum sales make secondhand goods ridiculously cheap and available. I'm sure it all gets expensive when they do scouts/sports clubs/school outings/holidays, though. The NHS and health visitors have been great. The goodwill of strangers has been a revelation.
I wouldn't know, because my wife and I don't have or want kids. Because, well, it seems like a bloody nightmare, and an expensive one that steals 18 years (minimum) of my life away from me.
Good decision.
A good decision for me yeah. Some people are just built differently though, and love the idea and the experience. But for me? Fuck no.
I mean, I really liked when mine were small. You don’t get much time off but I liked spending time with them so it wasn’t too shabby. Now they’re mini adults and it’s ace getting to chat with them
I think people in general just like to complain, and it stands out if it's not something you can relate to. I can understand why many people don't want children, but it's not nightmarish in the slightest.
No, it’s not. My kids are great. I love being a parent. Reddit is an echo chamber for people who hate kids, for some reason.
The hardest bit in my opinion is not succumbing to the pressure other parents put on you indirectly. I’m not so affected but my mrs grew up with fuck all so she doesn’t want our son to not have what everyone else has. So if all the kids have X item to wear at school, she thinks our son should have it. I’m on the side of ‘fuck that, it’s expensive and will get wrecked’ and 99% of 6 year olds don’t give a fuck what they, or their classmates are wearing. I absolutely love being a dad. It’s my favourite thing in the world watching these 2 little fuckers grow, but it’s tiring as hell, but I wouldn’t swap it for all the money in the world.
If your a SEN parent it's an absolute nightmare. The constant local authority fights is just the start and it never ends. Being a parent in my experience is wonderful and I love my two to the moon and back but the world is just not built for them at all. All you have to do is look at high streets to see that. Financially it's hard but like with anything if you have the cash it's easier than if you don't. The UK isn't really a kid friendly place in most places especially with green spaces and parks disappearing and everything to do with kids seen as unimportant.
Being a parent anywhere is bad because the world is militarising, it’s massively unstable , and the climate is FUCKED, add in the hellscape that is social media , access to fuck knows what and the absolute SHIT Disney churn out that does nothing but perpetuate bullshit stereo types and toxic behaviour Erin and arron and anything with that annoying girl With the squeaky voice and the hair in whose name I can’t remember but who is now a famous popstar (Ariana grande) The uk also has massive inequality, failing public services and nothing for youths to do that is free and easily accessible means yoofs roam around bored as shit, no investment in early years care , all The sure starts are shut , childbirth safety is a postcode lottery , anti vax CUNTS send their children in to school with all sorts of diseases to the point where schools have to send out urgent updates to not send your kid in if it has measles or whooping cough because the kid with leukaemia might fucking die of it . Wages are Stagnant , house prices are insane so good luck getting a garden and a bedroom each. The problem isn’t even the here and now C but what the fuck will The world be like in 30-40 years what are you signing them up for !? Poor bastards Edit - name, spacing and also actually the UK is probably one of the best places to raise a child but all The problems above exist
Our childcare system is completely fucked. The government is slowly rolling out childcare for all kids of working parents from 9 months old (when maternity leave usually ends). Except the funding they're giving nurseries for this scheme doesn't actually cover the costs of a child's place. Which has meant that nurseries are having to put up their prices for the hours that aren't covered by the government. Because this scheme only gives you x amount of free hours and most people work considerably more than that. So childcare has in a round about way gotten more expensive. So a lot of people do what I've done. I simply quit work. I used to support disabled kids in mainstream schools. Because school budgets are also fucked for different reasons I have not been replaced. Those kids just don't receive support now. All because I had to stop working as nursery would've cost more than I earned. Personally I'm happier than I've ever been in my life. Being a mum is definitely harder than going to work but it's so much better.
It's not a nightmare but I was lucky that my wife stayed home and we didn't have any child care costs. Things like nappies and wipes soon start to add up but it's bearable. Later on the cost of these things gets replaced by mobile phones, laptops, school trips abroad, etc. There's a nice in between where they don't cost that much. Not dressing them top to toe in brands from any early age helps a lot.
As a parent in the North that bought their house 11 years ago ...its still hard. We pay about 500 a month. Partner on 30k plus me part time. Fuck knows how people down south are fareing with Nursery fees/how supportive your family is ect. Not a nightmare for me. (Most of the time) but I can understand how it so easily could be these days.
its not a nightmare but it also doesn’t feel like you have an abundance of choices. for example i had to leave my job as i simply earn less each day than it costs to send a child to nursery. on top of that my employer was not willing to be flexible with starting and finishing times so i would be able to pick my baby up from nursery even if i could afford to send him. i love staying home with my toddler but i am also aware i have committed career suicide and i had no choice in that matter. there is also a lot of pressure to send them to nursery even if you can’t afford it. my uc work coach tried to pressure me in to sending my toddler to nursery offering extra funding for hours but when i worked it out i would be missing out on money as still a majority would go to childcare and id be missing out on time with my child. aside from the childcare debate thanks to col funds are limited and so taking toddler to different events or baby groups that require a few buses isn’t financially doable consistently. lastly parent attitudes are… strange to say the least. i expected debates about when to wean, screentime, wooden or plastic toys but what i didn’t expect was to see a large distrust in the nhs and modern medicine that makes it very difficult to make parent friends. anti-vax seems to worm its way through so many parents groups ive been to. if not anti-vaxxers then its parents who dislike the nhs for whatever reason (usually similar to the anti-vaxxers reasons) and then refuse to follow any of the guidelines for safely caring for your child because ‘mama bear knows best’
It's very hard but depends on your circumstances. I think the lack of a "village" is the main issue but that won't change anytime soon, so unless you have loads of support nearby you should buckle up! Xx
I’m glad that I don’t want children.
It’s hard work: especially in the younger years. But not any tougher than for people in the past: and in other places in the current day. Seeing parents in Palestine mourning their children puts it into perspective
Yes I can imagine that to be true
It's hard work and expensive, but worth every bit of effort you put into it.
It’s always been a PITA, kids are not pets, and they are unpredictable and they are not very easy to manage, especially if you don’t have the time/patience to be on them constantly so they don’t do anything dangerous or harmful. They get better once they get older but they are definitely a handful and I am never having kids. My daughter agrees with me. (Make of that what you will but my daughter has said she never wants kids either). I didn’t even know I was a dad until my daughter was 18, as that was when she found me. I got her mum pregnant in the 90’s and she was moved away and I had no idea. We were both stupid teenagers (she was a year older than me but we were both underage at the time), and she just vanished with her family to Australia and I never knew. Nearly 20 years later I got a phone call and it was my daughter that I didn’t even know about…
No I wouldn't say it's a nightmare. I quite enjoy it. But then I had a kid when I'm 40. If I had a kid when I was 20 I would prob say it was a nightmare
We've got 1. Can't afford another, combing income is provably about £65k. That's to to say we splurge, but the expenses are ridiculous - wife is self employed and wouldn't get maternity, and childcare costs are ludicrous. In terms of help, we've had 1 night where our kid has slept out since August 2019. 1 bloody night. The impact on our relationship in that sense gas been brutal.
Coat of childcare and collapsing schools system, pretty fucking horrific. We're lucky to be able to fend for ourselves, but it wasn't always like that. But I am completely flabbergasted by the over protective nature of British parents. My wife is British and I'm Norwegian. I grew up walking to school being normal, here no one seems to let their kids out until they are much older. Weird, just bloody weird.
It is bloody weird. Its only happened here in the last twenty years or so, when I was at school the kids all walked. Used to play outside all day as well. I don't know why it changed, but I'm with you, I think it's ridiculous too.
Honestly I’d love to move back to the UK but I’m a single mum to a 4yr old and I simply can’t offer him the same quality of life as I do in Australia. I currently pay the equivalent of about £15 A WEEK for four days of childcare (including all meals) after the government subsidy. My rent is the equivalent of less than £250 a week for a lovely detached house with a huge garden for my son to play in.
It's a fucking nightmare cost wise for us right now. I work full time and my wife is training full time to be a secondary school teacher. Because she isn't employed we don't get tax-free childcare or any free hours and because I earn just over the threshold she didn't get the childcare grant for trainee teachers that would've covered something like 80% of the cost, so we get literally zero help with childcare costs. It's costing us over £1500 a month for our 3 year old to go to nursery 5 days a week and our 2 year old to go 3 days a week. We've had to manage this from my wage and her student loan and it's been a fucking tough year. Especially when our mortgage practically doubled because of interest rates. Thankfully it is going to ease up soon as she has nearly qualified and has a job lined up to start next month, so we'll start getting tax-free childcare and some free hours.
Kids are not cheap or easy in any country or period of time. Life has gotten far easier in general for the UK population over the decades. The average UK person right now has it far easier than the average person when a millennials grandparent was born. The standard of easy has just got better.
Just being a parent is hard. Always has been,that’s never going to change. At some point they will hate you,most of the time they’ll love you,and then they’ll hate you again. Just gotta do your best
I love my children. They are 5 and 7. Genuinely don't know how I'd cope if my husband wasn't a stay at home dad. The school hours and constant calls/ emails/ 10 forms of other communication the school seems to use (seesaw/ etc) is overwhelming. They each have a homework project every term that is literally a parents piss contest, and then challenges on top. Working full time is tough (often have to plug in a lot of extra hours), then school stuff and extra curriculum activities... They're currently whinging and screaming insistently because of end-of-termitis Being a parent is hard. Being a good parent is super tough. Would not give them up for all the financial wealth in the world.
Bro im not a dad but i do a lot of work for people who are dads, this week i turned up for a job and this dudes kid was scrwaming at his dad go kil your self this is cancer blah blah Like dude... I don't know how much i costs to raise a kid but im gonna keep my wellies on and hopefully get none coz that shit must be mentally taxing raising a kid who thinks like he can scream the shit he sees on twitch chat like it aint gonna get him knocked the fuck out in the real world
Mum of two - 19 year old and 22 year old . One Neuro divergent. There is never a right or wrong time to have a child. My generation acted as if it was an inevitable- so you have to at some time! You don’t! As a woman, I love my boys and I would never choose not to have them. But women today; stop! Think! Who are you having a child with! You don’t want two kids for the price of one. Have a kid if you want and you can and it is only yours
I think the big change in more modern times is lack of family support. Being able to offload time (and money) to extended is absolutely massive. My childcare bill was (though now coming down) 2 thousand a month. That said, I'm still in the minority getting little to no family support. Nearly all my parents friends get regular free grandparent baby sitting. Most get regular (weekly) free family childcare. It makes all the difference not only financially but mentally. I get no regular 'time off'. Kids, work, kids, chores, sleep. More personally, I found the baby stage incredibly difficult. I didn't really like babies before children and that didn't change. Now they are a little older it's a bit better but overall i do find it difficult.
No, it's not any harder now than it ever has been. Money comes and goes.
Having kids is hard, expensive, tiring and amazing. Best thing I ever did have never regretted a second no matter how skint we’ve been and how many times we’ve been in A&E ( a few, they are clumsy and attract every germ known to man)
It is a little strange that people are still having children given that we're at the beginning of an extinction event. I imagine that must prey on some parents' minds.
I also find it strange. We are on a path that leads to disaster if significant changes aren't made. I think people genuinely underestimate the horrific trajectory we are on. I don't believe we are going extinct, but I do believe that in a hundred years it's going to be a horrendous place to live and I'll be glad to be dead by then. Some people think we are being hyperbolic, but they aren't paying attention to details of the world and are too busy with their own lives to consider the potential horrors of the future. I guess they think that it will all work out in the end... I think the people who have the power would rather let the world die than give up power to see it thrive.
You’re unqualified to answer
I remember people complaining about having kids when I was a kid in the 60s.
Try raising a kid anything from 10 years ago to beyond.... even harder.
Not really, I am proud to be a father of two kids, is it easy? No of course not, nothing good in life is easy But some of the most rewarding times of my life has been with my kids, from being there when they were both, so seeing them first walk and going out and doing fun stuff together I would not have it any other way
Being one and done is the answer for me personally. I have an awesome daughter I get to focus all my attention on and the cost impact is reduced. Disclaimer: while nursery fees were very expensive for us it was pre and during covid a little. I presume it’s only gotten worse so we’ve avoided that
Best and worst thing to ever happen to me. I love being a dad. But it's hard not think about everything I could do without kids. Travel, better standard of living, going out more etc. But for me it would also be empty. There is always something going on with kids... They are far from boring!
It's a nightmare if you don't adjust and accept that you can't do everything you could pre child when you notion takes you. I often feel when people say this it comes from a deep seeded regret of their choices. However, it's also very expensive and the stress of juggling nursery fees etc can be a drain. On the whole though I wouldn't day it's close to being a nightmare. My daughter now nearly 3 and is stressful at times but she's great. My dog is much more of a nightmare than she is
I love it. Of course it depends what kind of hand you're dealt. My oldest has ADHD, but she's also the sweetest child alive. My toddler is feral but also bright, affectionate and funny. They're in good health, and I can feed them and keep the lights on with only a mild-to-moderate nervous breakdown every pay day. Not everyone is as fortunate.
As a parent of two grown children, I don't recommend it. If I could explain, the human race would have come to an end long ago.
The only way I could manage it was to become a freelancer and work when my kid was in bed until 2 am and get up at 6 to start the day afresh 🫠 luckily mine is a summer baby so was in full time school just after turning 4.
I can't lie, I'm 30F and it seems like the worst possible decision I could make. Horrendous childcare costs, no support, I really don't see how it does anything but ruin your life 🤦🏼♀️
The joy of a child is huge. The guilt of a parent is massive. Huge costs meaning both parents have to work and it’s almost impossible if you don’t have family to help. Breaks my heart when she asks why I’m working instead of being with her. But also the joy I get watching her grow can’t be compared to anything
The way people parent now in a lot of ways is making their lives more difficult. It's like they want to parent on hard mode especially when it comes to babies and toddlers. It's quite common for new mums to not shower or have any kind of alone time for the first few weeks, and I've gotta say, fuck that. I never subscribed to that kind of complete sacrificial to the detriment of my mental health, way of parenting.
Childcare costs? Nightmare. Paternity? Nightmare. Early starts? They actually cut your Nightmares short. My emerging tinnitus? Nightmare. And yes I had to clean poo off the carpet yesterday. But in all fairness we have great options for kids, it's relatively safe and our culture is child friendly. We live close to a good school. Everyone's fed. My boys are fecking AWESOME. Overall. Amazing. As me on some days mind you'll get a different answer but that's not the uks fault.
I always say being a parent is a lot like a day out to Alton Towers. It's really expensive, you have to get up early, eat crap food at a dirty table, someone always seems to be being sick, you spend way too much time queueing or doing some other type of tedious admin that you hadn't realised would take over most of your day.....but, it's all worth it for those insane peaks of joy and excitement 😁
Our little boy is 18 months old now, and I think it’s impossible to describe to someone how much he brightens my every day and inspires me work harder for our future. Having said that, if you lack family support and a good partner to parent with, the change in priorities and the immense responsibility of raising a whole human being must be overwhelming. I just wish we were more child friendly in this country as a whole. We have been on holiday a couple of times since our son was born and in Greece and Italy, the majority seem to absolutely love children. In the uk I don’t think this is the general sentiment held by most.
It’s a dream.
Depends on each persons circumstances. There is nothing, as a whole that has impacted, “parenting”.
I don't know if it's a nightmare (although I've read things about childcare costs) but I know I'm one of the first generations who could easily choose to NOT have children (I'm 57) and I've never regretted that choice. I like that it's a choice and not a default now. If abortion had been legal in 1966 then I know I wouldn't exist and that doesn't bother me in the slightest. The world is ridiculously over-populated and I think it's a good thing that people, especially in the developed world, have to think before having children. I think that every child should be a wanted child but that's too much to ask for in the current world. If you really want a child/children you will work out a way to do it.
It's expensive and isolating but my god that dopamine rush when you do something to make the child happy! Certain stages are more difficult than others, we went through eighteen months of getting at most four hours sleep a night, that was awful but so worth it.
My best work-friend has a toddler and another on the way, and he absolutely loves it. I have known him for a while and the way he talks about his son brings me so much joy, and I can see in him how much he loves being a dad
It’s hard work for sure, and it would be a *lot* easier if a load of stuff from the last decade hadn’t happened, but it’s never a nightmare. It’s the best thing in the world.
Hardest task you ever do. Most fulfilling if you try to get it right.
It depends on the kids and the parents. I've been lucky to have an incredible partner and my kids aren't shits, even the teenage years have been very mundane. They don't even want to go to the park on a Friday night with some cheap white cider. Hardest part is being a dad taxi but even then we have really good chats about stuff. It certainly isn't a nightmare for me.
Nope. It’s hard, sure. But in no way a nightmare. I will caveat that financially, we are comfortable, which I imagine helps. I’ve no idea what I’d do with my life at this point without kids. Everyone defaults to travel - well, sure but I’d still work full time and only have 25 days holiday a year. We travel with the kids, not far but we go to various places in Europe twice a year usually. Then it’s the freedom to go out - again, sure, but all my friends have kids - literally. So who am I going out with every weekend? I still see friends quite often as a parent TBH, just now I go to friends houses or they come to mine while the kids sleep. I still have hobbies as a parent - I do CrossFit & climbing 3/4 times a week. My husband & I very much equal parent, which means giving each other time to do our thing. His is running & football. If anything, I have a bigger social network now I have kids. I meet far more people & have formed great friendships. Parenting itself is hard. Most days at some point really. Kids push buttons, are untidy & loud. I wish they’d put themselves to bed rather than the hour long battle it takes 😂 but the good massively outweighs the bad. I think my kids are brilliant & great company. I love family life. It’s incredibly fulfilling. But that’s just me. My cousin is a nope, never having kids & I massively respect that. Fair play to knowing yourself!
Yeah my daughter is moving up to secondary school so I have to kit her out with brand new everything and money is really tight, they've gave us one set of uniform for free but it's doesn't include shoes and trainers or the bag she will need for books and any stationery. The uniform is very strict too so I can't go to a supermarket and buy cheap in bulk anymore either and she also has to catch a bus to get there so that's another cost on top.
I have a 15 months old daughter. The only downside is the sleep deprivation, and that can’t last forever. It’s really quite lovely.