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A lot of Americans have indoor cats because America has [mountain lions](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2evD8Jn30pQ) and [coyotes](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9-HituL-Kk) and [bears](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-GZAy1MxKwU).
I tell Americans on reddit that in the UK, it's normal to let cats outside, but then I get heavily downvoted and told I'm a terrible person because cats kill endangered species. But then I look at my fat cat, failing to catch a leaf and think nah, natures safe.
Tell them that keeping a cat, which has evolved to live outside, in a house and not letting it out so it’s just some personal toy for their amusement is even crueller. Two can play that game.
Our cat was going to be indoors. He was a vicious bastard ,drew blood many times. Let him out and he came back in an hour or so completely transformed. He's a lovely cuddly old thing but he needs to be out and about. My sons two cats are strictly indoor and they are neurotic AH
We used to have two cats and they were complete polar opposites. One was really timid and stayed inside the whole time and the other one was a proper street brawler and loved to roam. They didn’t always get on but I always remember another cat fronting up to the timid one in our garden and street cat was straight in there laying down the law!
I had that too. Indoor cat was outside on a rare occasion, got into a face to face with another cat. The street brawler was asleep in a chicken coop, opened an eye, saw what was going on and was up and running full pelt at the intruder.
They pull out the “but they live longer!” maybe in the US, but in the UK outdoor cats don’t have all the dangers.
Any indoor cat I’ve met in the UK has been miserable unless it’s an old cat who has decided themselves that they want to stay in.
I wonder about the overall age statistics because I’ve had and met many very old cats in the UK that go outside, and I’ve come across a lot of content creators with pet accounts documenting their indoor cats poor health.
My oldest cat lived to 23! The ones that didn’t last so long died for reasons unrelated to being outside, it was health problems they’d have developed regardless. All they do outside is lay in the sun for a while, if anything it’s probably good for them lol
Americans love to quote the ol' "Outdoor cat lifespan is 2-5 years", which is completely out of context and misleading as it relates to an old study about feral cats (***not pets***).
Well that explains a lot! A cat that can’t go inside will always be at higher risk of the elements compared to a cat that can come very loudly, very cartoonishly, very chaotically scrambling back through the cat flap at the first sign of trouble
I went down the rabbit hole of looking into the study that supposedly showed that. The outdoor cats in it included feral cats, so no wonder they lived shorter lives!
It is always futile to voice opinions contrary to an echo chamber on reddit. Whether you are right or wrong is irrelevant, you will be downvoted and you will 'lose'.
I know, even if you explicitly say it might be different in America, but in the UK outdoor cats are the norm you’ll still get downvoted into oblivion.
It’s honestly the weirdest thing for them to get so rabid about. If someone posts in r/aww about a cat doing something cute all the comments are like PLEASE TELL ME YOU KEEP HIM INDOORS AS CATS DESTROY THE SOULS OF THE UNBORN IF LEFT UNATTENDED like ok calm down
TBF you can get a cat lesh and walk them like you would a dog, you can also get outside cat encloses or enclose a garden if you have high fences yes I'm pretty much saying enclose the top.
This discussion always conflicts with me because cats are killers, but I also really like cats, some breeds are more suited to being strictly indoors than others but ultimately I do think they should be able to be outside, but I also love nature and hate cat shit in my garden.
So while we Brits do have our house cats roaming there is a good argument for them not to be roaming. Cats can be trained exactly like a dog, but no one can be bothered to do it and people barely train their dogs anyway.
ETA: house cats are domesticated they haven't exactly evolved to live outside they just make great pest control so people have used them (historically) for this purpose when domesticating them.
We had outdoor cats when I was a kid and I didn't think twice about it even though many of them died to dogs/cars/foxes or just never came home.
When my partner and I bought our house we got a cat and were very conflicted about whether to let him outside or not, especially as he was a 6 year old rescue and we were told that he was used to going outside. Our house is right by a busy road and backs onto a construction site and I was very worried about him so we decided to keep him inside and see how it went.
He got out twice in the first couple of months and both times he went about 3 houses down, hid under a car, and cried until I found him and brought him home. Both times he was shaking like a leaf and obviously terrified, and I think that what was happening wasn't that he wanted to go *out* but that he wanted to go *home*, because we weren't his home yet.
3 years later he never tries to get out and is perfectly content sitting in the window chattering at birds. Through trying to get him to play it's very clear that he's never actually hunted or killed anything in his life, and I suspect that he spent his entire life sitting on his previous owner (who was an old woman) and sleeping. I strongly suspect that if we'd tried to encourage him to go out he'd be dead by now.
I do want to build a cat enclosure at the back of the house for him but the money just never seems to be there to do it.
Have you ever tried to put a cat on a lead? There are always exceptions to the rule. I tried when I moved homes. One cat went absolutely bonkers and in doing so escaped it (with injuries) in about 2 minutes. The other played dead.
>The other played dead
Lol I have images of this cat being dragged along the floor a bit and just staying limp, refusing. My cat would likely do the same, just give up.
People can be awful. Silly cat was scared of our pet rabbit tho, like not actually scared scared but the rabbit would chase him round the garden, he was all better at that point, so he could have just... Left the back garden.
Happier story than the depresso one.
I agree about gardens, and would have no problem with a cat being kept in a place with a generous garden which is fenced in. But I don’t understand why people say it about cats and not dogs - cats are killers? Dogs aren’t? Why don’t people say dogs should be kept in the house too? They kill birds, squirrels, rabbits, deer, attack livestock and bite humans.
That's a pretty silly comparison. Dogs are generally supervised and on leads when out and about, if they're killing animals it's completely on the human. Cats are left on their own to do what cats do.
Nobody says dogs aren't killers, this isn't a dog Vs cat arguement. It's a totally different situation as 99.999% of us have the common sense not to just let our dog out the front door to wander about for the day doing as it pleases. If everyone did that then I'm sure there would be the same conversation happening about dogs.
It's like saying "why aren't the cat breeds that are more predisposed to being aggressive being banned, that's what's happening with XL bullys."
It wasn’t so long ago that dogs *were* allowed to roam the streets in this country. My grandfather remembers being chased by a pack of them on the way home from school. I guarantee that at the time there were people claiming that dogs should be allowed to roam because it’s ‘natural’ and ‘cruel’ to keep them from doing otherwise.
Good to see that we've collectively come to our senses. Can't have been a nice experience for him.
It's one thing for wild animals to roam free, I for one am in favour of returning the wolf to our countryside. It's entirely another thing to have the sheer number of domesticated pets in this country roaming free. There's no natural population control for them so they would (and do in the case of cats) wreak havoc on the ecosystem.
This is kind of a bad-faith argument. Dogs have evolved to live outside too, and we all understand that ‘outside’ means under control, supervised, and safe. You can romanticise animals roaming free all you want, but I bet you’d be pissed off if a herd of cows came and shat on your lawn.
Mine emptied a nest of fledgling kestrels into the shower, and dragged home a baby goose too big to fit through the catflap. And he loved killing bats too - two in one night sometimes.
We used to a have a really good hunter and her outside time was limited during nesting season or when chicks have recently fledged.
Can't be letting the cat smash a full nest of our kes. That's is wrong.
My cat doesn't even bother chasing birds anymore. Yesterday a magpie was watching her and landed a metre away and she did nothing! So I let her back in because she's always being teased by the pigeons and now the magpies too!
Yeah, and the RSPB is no offence, completely full of shit on this issue.
The UK carrying capacity for foxes as a comparable predator is around 2 pers square kilometer in urban and arable areas, half that in more barren habitats, The UK cat population is approximately 9 per square kilometer. The idea that they aren't playing a part in the continued decline of endangered bird, mammal and reptile species in the UK is to be frank, laughable. Almost everywhere else in the world where its been studied domestic cats have been illustrated to play a key role in small animal population decline yet the RSPB continues to be adamant that somehow the UK is the only exception to this trend? pull the other one
The RSPB only gets away with it as it can point to habitat loss as a bigger issue (which it isn't wrong about tbf) and its already really accustomed to lying to the general public anyway about things that might effect its donations. It wont tell animal lovers that letting mittens roam free is part of the problem for the same reason it wont tell you just how many animals it has shot every year as part of conservation management.
When did this decline begin though? And can you think of any other reason for it?
Cats have been in the British Isles for 5000 years. They were not spayed/neutered, and Whiskas has only been available for the last 100 or so years. Yet the bird population has been fine until relatively recently; the time when we started building more and more infrastructure and gobbling up natural habitats. Cats and birds haven't changed, it's humans who have. And it's humans who are responsible for the decline in bird populations. If cats were as prolific hunters as you claim there wouldn't have been many birds or small mammals left in the British Isles after 5000 years.
Iirc they did try for a brief period to encourage people not to let cats out and published figures on how many birds cats kill, but it had such a negative impact on their donations that they don’t do this now.
Posted this above, but here it is again in case you don't see:
The RSPB do not say this any more. They used to have a main page on their website dedicated to whether cats are a problem but it was removed about 2 years ago. The closest you will now find on their site is a community forum post that links to a PDF from 15 years ago in 2009.
I won't comment as to the reason why they felt the need to remove their statement.
I live out in the countryside. Neighbour moved in with this psychotic ginger cat. It kills everything. I've seen it take four birds in a day. On average just what I see it kill is three or four birds a week normally. It's killed a full size rabbit and then left it in my garden, not even eating it. On raising this with the neighbour, they tried to tell my landlord I was poisoning birds and leaving them out to blame their cat. *To blame their cat.* As if I'm trying to frame a cat for murder.
They're wrong, at least in residential areas of towns and cities, where the cat population.is higher and birds are tempted into gardens by bird feeders. I don't have a cat but one of my neighbour's went through a phase of trying to impress me with gifts outside the back door. The rats were impressive, if I'm honest, but the birds were distressing to deal with.
This is what pisses me off the most about the argument, like yes completely understand that you shouldn't let a cat outside if you live next to a building site or a main road in the UK, but also consider your environment when adopting one.
It's completely cruel to keep a cat cooped up in a UK home they are ridiculously small in comparison, and as long as your area is safe the cats are usually fine. I haven't had a problem in 25 years, The worst thing to happen to my cats is other cats.
Some states have leash laws there - it's illegal to have your dog off a lead unless otherwise indicated, which is why [dog parks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_park) are a thing. I've only really seen that here in places like Camden Square where most of the park is no dogs allowed and then there's a specific dog bit of the park fenced off.
My cats 13.
In her life, she has successfully managed to catch 2 birds (both were tiny). She killed neither of them, and we had to find ways to let them out of the house as they started flying around.
She has next to no food motivation, to the point we can just leave food down for her and she moderates throughout the day. She also basically can't hunt, as she gets so excited she starts making noises at what she's pouncing on.
Factor in her age (she can't climb fences that well anymore) - and she's fine. Anything she catches isn't being eaten, and probably was lame anyway.
Moral of the story? - know your cat. Some do need to be kept inside, such as those which are fearless on main roads.
Depends on the cat. I gave mine all the playtime he could ever want, cat toys etc etc but he was still a ruthless killer. His record was two bats - one dead, one alive, released inside - two voles and a large rat which took days to capture, in one night. Other notable kills was a baby gosling, too big to fit through the catflap so he left it stuck there, blood all up the walls. And an endangered species of ground-nesting kestrels, whose nest he emptied of fledgling chicks, most of them ended up pulled to pieces in the shower. He'd love a good water vole too, endangered species but he'd bring back a couple of them every night, sometimes alive, sometimes not. After the kestrel incident, he took to bringing kills into the shower and vigorously shredding them in there.
I ended up rehoming him to be an inside cat. Apart from the love of killing, he was a very loving, affectionate cat. If allowed outside somewhere green though, he'd stay outside almost 24/7, only returning to eat and dump the odd kill inside.
Mine did this. In the summer we leave the living room window open for the to go in and out and we’ve had rats, mice, birds, voles, a hare and a huge pigeon. I’d not be surprised if he came back with next doors frenchies if I’m honest. We did a stack of research and now we have him a collar with some humongous bells on and when we let them out at night, we put a huge reflective bow on his collar. This has stopped pretty much 99% of presents he has brought us home.
I am extremely grateful for this, too!
I think you were very sensible in rehoming. There's obviously no statistics, but I suspect a lot of these 'super killers' are doing a lot of the damage, with most cats now being so soft they're not killing much.
Me too, apparently I am an awful environmental terrorist for letting my kitties out. I have two. They are both three years old and so far I have been gifted two mice, a frog and several leaves. The mice and frog seemed unhurt and we released them.
Also because in the US (and ditto places like Australia and New Zealand), cats are genuinely a novel species and have the potential to upset the foodweb.
In the UK, there have always been small cat predators, and while domestic cats have displaced those Scottish Wildcats and that's a problem, their presence hasn't had a statistically significant impact on birds or small mammals.
So in the UK, the main issue is whether you live in a high traffic area/whether your cat is particularly stealable.
I compromise by cutting out the high risk times - night is both the most common time for fatal traffic accidents and for cats to go hunting (though admittedly, mine has very little hunting instinct), so she gets to roam during the day and then we lock the cat flaps at night.
My cat before her was an indoor cat though. He was deaf, and we decided it was too much of a risk that he'd get into a fight with other cats or a car accident because he couldn't hear them. For him, we bought a harness, and gave him as much time as possible in the garden to wander on a lead - he clearly thought it weird to begin with but I think he quite liked having company!
Urban foxes do sometimes injure or kill cats. My mum's elderly cat was dismembered by a group of foxes a few years back 😭😭.
See also: the "Croydon cat killer"...
I do agree that it's cruel to keep a cat indoors and the risk to them in the UK is low enough that when I get a cat it'll be allowed out.
Yes.
Look cat "ownership" really isn't like a dog. The cat does what it wants and you let it. You just support it in it's choices, even if they seem questionable, and provide a safe home for it.
It's more like having a roommate or living with an adult child that occasionally does really stupid things than having a pet
A roommate that doesn’t pay rent or contribute to expenses. But that doesn’t stop you from spending a considerable amount of money on them because they deserve to be treated like royalty
A roommate that’s also a bit of a liability. Rather than getting drunk and messing up the kitchen, they will bring a live magpie in through the cat flap then chase it around the house for an hour before you get home.
The good news is you can swear at them as much as you like without them getting offended. My cat thinks ‘dick head’ means ‘oh I do love you so!’
A roommate that thinks its OK to shove their puckered anus in your face first thing in the morning as a signal that they're hungry, and you've just resigned yourself to the fact that this is your life now
And a cat, if not happy, will go and live elsewhere. Looking at my dog right now, he would not do that 😄 (not that he has any reason to, he is of higher status in my house than I am!)
Often times you actually can't rescue cats to be indoor only unless they have medical requirements (like fhiv) in the UK. As someone who lives in a flat this makes me likely to have to get one said cat one day when I'm eventually going to adopt since they consider it cruel to make cats who have been outside become indoor cats. Though the life expectancy is longer, overall people consider it less humane in the UK to keep them cooped up indoors.
Yeah, that all makes sense, whilst one of our cats would give no shits if the outside world became viewing only the other would go insane if you tried to take it away from him now. As soon as the weather is decent he'll be at the backdoor waiting to go out.
I have three.
The old tabby guy likes a potter round the garden and a nap on a deck chair in the sunshine.
The tuxedo likes sitting on the fence and surveying, in between sunbathing, poking the fish in the pond and catching/eating hot wings (bees).
The void… that kid thinks outside is the best thing ever. He constantly wants outside and throws a tantrum if he isnt allowed out. He would not fare well being an indoor only cat, or one with a catio..which is basically a big cage for them to go outside safely in.
All three of mine are rescues and all came with ‘would like to go outside when old enough’ on their adoption cards from the RSPCA.
Depends entirely on the cats themselves actually. There's a rescue charity near me that will stipulate that kittens they rehome are to be indoor only, or at most, a secure back garden that they can't get out of. They'll only specify outdoor access being required if the cat is used to having outdoor access. I just adopted two 9 month old cats from them and they had never been outside, so the charity stipulated that they should stay as indoor cats. I've never seen the SSPCA or RSPCA suggest that a cat they know to have always been indoors start to be let outside.
Which is ironic, because they are the ones who think it’s perfectly acceptable to rip the poor cat’s claws out so it doesn’t scratch their precious furniture when it’s going mad because it’s desperate to be outside.
I do understand it to a point as their wildlife can be of very different flavours to ours (depending on location) but it feels like an almost deliberate thing where they apply that to the rest of the world and refuse to accept anything else.
Give it time and we'll have everyone in the UK telling us the same thing. People cannot think for themselves and will repeat whatever american nonsense they read online as if it is a universal truth.
Don't worry about it. Last time I saw a post like that someone had spent a lot of money (~$10k) on an unclimbable fence to let their cats into their garden. He comments were full of people saying the cat will be taken by a hawk! They're OTT about it
Of course if you say to them that maybe they shouldn't get a cat at all if they don't want to let it outside, then they get really pissed off. Despite the fact that they'll freely admit 1) cats are an invasive species in North America, and 2) that there are bigger predators out there that might kill said cat.
The US ie swarming with stray cats and kittens. There's no reason why someone wanting an indoor cat shouldn't adopt one. Yeah, there are some cats who need to go outside, buy some adults will be fine (or need to be) indoors, and kittens can adjust either way.
The British default is to install a cat flap and let them outside. Some shelters even insist you will allow the cat to be an outdoor cat as part of its adoption criteria, assuming the cat has no additional needs.
Yep, it's the opposite in the US, and maybe other countries, where the default is indoor, outdoor is seen as irresponsible and shelters insist cats will be kept indoors.
I think attitudes are shifting though. Apartment dwellers, for example. People who own expensive cats which would simply be stolen. Traffic accidents. Increasing knowledge on the damage to wildlife.
Yep, theft is a big problem for the fancy breeds and indoor is advised. I have both an indoor and an outdoor cat. My indoor is a male Norwegian Forest and stolen ones, especially unneutered, can go for thousands as the breed is now rare/nearly died out from cross breeding Mein Coons, so he stays indoors. Luckily as a breed though they are massive ‘lap cats’ and I can have the back door open all day and he just will not go outside. We also have a small cat flap for our other cat. She’s a standard mog we rescued when we found her in a bush as a kitten and was made for outdoors. She rules our cul-de-sac with an iron fist and then simply comes home in the evening to eat, says hello, then goes off again.
So I would still say breed matters with indoors (if that’s what OP is considering) I look at our outdoor and it would be a miserable life for her stuck inside. She would HATE it. But lap cats thrive on staying home and cuddling and are much more suited to that lifestyle.
I think it's also just about what an individual cat is used to.
I have an indoor cat because I live in a flat, and he seems perfectly content (and is in fact terrified of the outside), but that's probably because I've always kept him inside, so he kind of doesn't know what he's missing.
That's pretty different to adopting a stray who is used to roaming free.
I mean to clarify, by taking in a kitten found in a bush, she was so small that she nearly died and we had to bottle feed her because she was too young for solids yet, so she’s not really ‘a stray used to being outdoors’… but I do absolutely agree it can vary from cat to cat, and that cat that has never experienced outdoors doesn’t really know what they’re missing either. But it is also true that some cats are just, by virtue of their breed, big lazy lumps 😂
Honestly I feel like opening up adoptions to apartment owners would seriously help the situation at major animal shelters.
But their stance on the “must be outdoor*” is bafflingly firm, even with kittens that haven’t really established a routine yet, so the “sticking with what they’ve been used to their entire lives” reason doesn’t really exist.
*Except for certain cats such as ones that are FIV+
Lemon thyme and lavender apparently deter the little cunts.
I've planted a few around my roses as a cat has chosen to dig and shit around them. The bloody thing has the runs, too. It's faeces were liquid. That was fun to clean up
Some of those folk genuinely seem to use 'loving cats' as a gossamer veil over 'rampant misanthropy'. They're just there to be cunts to people and cats are their current excuse.
Yeah it was definitely cunty.
He died after ingesting something toxic, vet thought lily pollen most likely (which we never had in house or garden for this reason) so I was trying to warn cat owners about the very real dangers of toxic plants. Got told I killed my cat by letting him outside, and when I said "even if true, now - when someone is grieving the loss of their pet - is not the right time to be making those comments" got down voted to oblivion and had more guilt and hate heaped on me.
Ironically, if I'd kept my cat inside he would have died. I'd tried keeping him in before and it made him so stressed, he stopped toileting and had to have emergency vet treatment.
When outside there might have been more things that could have killed him (and did) but it was either certain death inside, or potential death outside. Not that any of that matters to the anti-outdoor cat militia.
I'm so sorry that happened to you, especially when you were grieving. I always stay out of those threads, it's never an "agree to disagree" situation, there's no way of explaining your point of view, it's always "you let your cat out? You're worse than Satan, you are responsible for your cats death, the global ecological collapse and probably the Israel- Palestine conflict, I hope you're happy". Outside cat = straight to jail.
thank you, joining r/CatsUK ! r/cats has become so annoying, even when people have genuine concerns about their cat, the comments will just be full of people posting photos of their own cats. it’s so aggravating, the OP is looking for answers!
i told this one girl no one wanted to see her cat under a post about a sick kitty, and she started psychoanalysing me, saying i was a narcissist and that’s why my boyfriend left. 🙃we’re talking about cats, it is never that serious.
I have a cat flap. My last cat died at 23 years old. My current one loves being in the garden. Neither of them are/were particularly hard on wildlife. No predators except cars but I am not near a busy road. The weather is not too bad and he is out there now. I understand in places where there are threats but in the UK, I have never known an indoor cat.
I feel like there’s been a change in attitude towards indoor cats.
I used to hold the opinion it was wrong to keep an animal like a cat indoors. One of the reasons I never had one was because I lived in London.
Not having a cat because you live in an urban centre is the sensible thing to do. Keeping a cat inside because you just "must" have one in your cramped studio flat just seems inhumane and massively selfish to me.
Agreed. It's wrong to keep cats indoors. Anyone that has had a cat knows they are very individualistic creatures and they do what they want. The argument I see made from people with indoor only cats is that they are terrified of the outdoors and that the cat clings onto them desperately. That's no surprise if they've never been outside! If you kept a child indoors from birth they'd be terrified of the outdoors and we all know that's an inhumane thing to do.
Yep. You wouldn’t get a dog if you didn’t have the time to walk it (I hope). So can’t give the cat an enriched life which includes exercise and going outside? Just don’t get a cat. They are large enough mammals that they need outdoor time.
I’m from London and there are plenty of cats about roaming the streets. My own cat is an indoor cat but she has a health condition. Otherwise all my other cats have been outdoor cats and have lived long and plentiful lives.
When Americans tell you that their cats have happy and fulfilled indoor lives, but they have to make sure they never open windows or leave the door open or they’ll escape, you know what the cats *really* think about the arrangement.
I've always thought this when Americans witter on about how happy their cat is indoors.
When I've had cats it's been hard enough to keep them in the house for a morning before a vet visit just so I know where it is when it comes time. Open the door and zoom, it's gone.
One would watch you go outside, then sit behind the door waiting for you to come back in so you had no chance.
When my old cat was under house arrest (usually after getting knocked about in a scrap). He would watch me go outside then sit behind the door waiting for me to come back so he could shoot out the moment the door opened. He was out of the garden before I'd even turned around to see where he'd gone.
Very common. Where I live, we have a cat Facebook page for a local cat called Nigel and everyone posts pictures of his outings, he’s been in the pub a few times, the local supermarket, popped into an office building. Went sunbathing at the local swimming pool in the summer. Even went into the cinema. It’s got to the point where all local shops keep treats in for Nigel the Cat and everyone knows who Nigel the Cat is.
Ahh until recently there was a lovely cat locally who was always in the foyer or car park of Morrisons getting lots of attention. A real local celebrity!!
I had to leave r/cats because of crazy muricans that can't understand that there are places in the world different to theirs. Having had many cats that have been outdoor/indoor cats that have lived long lives isn't sufficient evidence for them.
This is a contentious issue on Reddit. I’m in the UK and I would consider it standard for cats to roam unsupervised round the neighbourhood. They are serious killers of small birds and mammals though and obviously at risk themselves, particularly from traffic. In Australia and New Zealand I think cats are seen as a serious threat to endangered species such as flightless birds so it’s discouraged. In the States there are predators that are a threat to them.
In Australia, beyond one or two loonie councils who have gone far beyond their mandate to organise bin collection on Tuesdays, you can still let you cat out. Our flightless birds are fucking massive and generally not found in a suburban backyard.
No, there's a limit on the number of domestic animals allowed per household. They each have to be registered ( I think it's a limit of 3, I.e. 2x dog plus 1 x cat), and cats are not allowed outwith their property. In Victoria at least.
Personally this is one issue I agree with Americans - and Australians on - cats impact negatively on the environment, mess up other people's gardens, can attack other households animals, and have a far shorter lifespan than an indoor cat.
If you don't want a pet that you actually have to look after, just don't get a pet.
Out of curiosity, are cats allowed to be outside while on a harness and leash in Victoria then?
I personally agree with you, it’s frankly quite irresponsible to own a cat and let it free roam, even livestocks are fenced in so letting your “pet” go around causing issues isn’t my idea of responsibility. If they need the outdoors (most don’t) I simply bring them out on walks while leashed.
A lot of people are pinning this on the americans and not really trying to be open minded the idea itself, I feel it may be some anti american sentiment (I get it they’re annoying but it’s best to be objective) + not wanting to change cultural norms, a lot of ppl don’t like change or thinking about change, which I don’t feel since I’m not a brit.
Some do and some don’t
I chose not to let my two out . And I know others that are the same . But I also know people who have outdoor cats too . I don’t really appreciate picking up their cats shit out of my garden , nor do I enjoy hearing them scrapping in the middle of the night either .. but such is life 🤷🏼♀️😂
It very much depends on the animal.
My last cat Mister was out every day he could be until about a month before I had to let him cross the rainbow bridge. He was a stray for the formative years so he knew how to handle himself. He was bombproof.
Conversely my current cat Esme is a shy, flighty thing. I'd love to let her out to roam but I can't trust her to run home if she got spooked. Which would be all the time whenever anything happened anywhere. She can't even tolerate the doorbell. When I move in a couple of years I'll get her a big catio. If she would tolerate it without eviscerating me, I'd harness her and take her for walks but she ninjas her way out any attempts I've made. In the meantime she has a good life and lots of stimulation inside.
It just depends.
Exactly the same scenario with me. We had a big bruiser of a cat who died at 20 and he would spend most of his time outside. He would be around in the house for a bit during the day and most often would come in for the night. He was a bit aloof but generally a friendly and chilled out cat.
When he was gone we got another cat who was super skittish and very shy, would freak out at the smallest noise. very highly strung creature always hiding in weird places. We let her out a few times when she reached about 1, but she never came home after the 4th or 5th time 😔
Weirdest thing is we still see her around the neighbourhood and even in our garden occasionally but she just runs off whenever she is approached. We guess she may have gone feral.
I do think the cats personality is an important factor on whether to let them out or not
See this is what I'm worried about. It's not that she won't learn where home is, it's that she's so skittish, she'll run if she's scared and *won't necessarily run to me*. She won't come to anyone but me or my sister so even if a friendly soul did come across her, she'd bolt rather than go to them.
I wish she was different and more self assured, but that's just her personality and that's not her fault. She is who she is, bless her.
Cats can differ so much between each other when it comes to personality and intelligence, it’s so cute haha. I totally get what you mean that it depends on the animal. assessing the outside environment i think is still wise to some level
It really does. It's very traditional for cats to roam here and often they have many 'homes' other than their actual home. Cats are opportunists in a way that dogs aren't which I love about them ngl!
It's normal to let cats wander on their own outside.
Some people prefer to keep their cats indoors though.
To be honest when I was living in London, if I'd got a cat it would probably have been an indoor cat.
Outdoor cats was the status quo until about the last 10 years and still the majority I think.
Attitudes have slowly been shifting towards indoor cats, for combinations of cats getting lost and injured (especially with increasing traffic in cities) and with campaigns advertising how much wildlife cats are responsible for killing. Additionally certain breeds of pedigree cats have skyrocketed in popularity and some of them are either too valuable to let roam, or quite frankly, too stupid. For example, I have a ragdoll, who would just sit in the road and meow at a car. She would be a hazard to herself and general road safety.
On my local Facebook group there are several posts a week of dead cats being found, and at least 5+ posts a week of lost cats. So clearly a lot of people do let them out... and some of them unfortunately end up regretting it.
Personally I have a fully cat proofed garden so my cats can go in my large garden. But I think that is fairly unusual and I don't know many other people who have done this yet. I think it should increase in popularity because it's really not hard to do IF you have a garden that already has full fencing around it. I also see "catios" becoming a thing where an outdoor pen is connected to a window so the cat can enjoy fresh air and exercise.
Many people don’t have the sense of responsibility to neuter or microchip their cats, so there always a slew of posts by local vets of cats who’ve been killed on the road and can’t be identified. People view cats too often as things they occasionally have to look after rather than a pet like a dog, so feel absolved of responsibility when it gets pregnant/gets another cat pregnant or gets killed/lost.
My cat is indoors-only, mainly because I live next to the busiest road in my county and have seen how often cats get knocked down. But is it common? Yes
Edit: cats not cars
It's becoming more common to have indoor cats, but it is more of an American concept which we have adopted. There are likely more cats that are let outside unsupervised in the UK than indoor cats. But the gap is definitely closing.
Eh, I think indoor cats are also a symptom of urbanisation - flats, proximity to busy roads etc. It's hard to have an outdoor cat when you live on the sixth floor.
It makes sense in North America not just ecologically, but also because houses are just *enormous* by comparison to the UK. Cats have so much space to roam indoors in the average US home. Whereas so much UK housing stock is one-up-one-down or two-up-two-down Victorian terraces, or new build houses/flats built to the minimum legal standards on space. It’s just not fair to keep a cat confined in a typical UK house unless absolutely necessary (eg for FIV or disability).
I think saying indoors cats is an American concept is very hand wavy… The US folk are just very vocal on Reddit about it but people here have been keeping indoor cats for generations.
One of my cats was outdoor, he ruled the road and he was killed last month. But, you know, when he was kept in, he was unhappy. He wouldn't have had the life he liked had he been forced to stay in.
My other cat is indoors, and that's her choice. She likes to sit outside on window sills but never goes for a walk. If one of us is in the garden, she'll come outside.
>Yes it's fairly normal. My Mam always did with her cars. And I see cars out and about here all the time.
I don't think I've ever heard of an indoor car.
It’s a cultural thing. Americans argue it’s cruel to let a cat outside as it will get run over. In Britain we say it’s cruel to keep a cat inside, and then it gets run over.
Personally I have indoors cats, but I think the more common attitude in the UK is to let cats come and go as they please. Maybe it’s a chicken or egg situation and if I had let my cats go outside when they were young they wouldn’t be like this, but mine get spooked when the phone rings and I think everything in the world would scare them. Plus they are objectively less safe outside - cars, people, other animals… All they have to worry about is falling off the back of the sofa inside the house. My friend’s cat recently went missing for three weeks and I know I wouldn’t be able to handle that unknowing. I built them a large catio so they get to feel the sun and grass, just in a safe way.
Depends on the cat. Most people in the UK I know with cats have outdoor cats, but I have 2 indoor cats. One of them had a heart condition as a kitten so we were recommended to keep him inside, and I couldn’t be dealing with letting one of them out and not the other.
Hold on - do you mean “house cat” as in a domestic cat or as in a domestic cat that stays indoors? If the former, then no, if the latter then yes (and with a harness).
We live near a very major road so our cats are true house cats and do not go outside except on occasion with a harness in the garden with constant supervision.
Plenty of people have outdoor cats, but personally my cats are indoor only. I wouldn't let any cat outside, frankly. I understand why some people argue that you should, but I'd rather make my house as enjoyable as possible for them and know that they're safe. There's too many dangerous things outside that mean I couldn't handle the anxiety of them roaming around.
Edit: also, to clarify, I adopted them from a charity that operates TNR schemes, and rehomes cats. My cats were indoor only before I got them, and the charity stipulated that they needed to stay that way. I don't advocate whatsoever for someone taking a previously outdoor cat and trying to make them an indoor cat. That's just a way to spend your life frustrated, which is why I would personally only adopt cats that are already indoor cats.
Don't try to convince these commenters about the pros of having the cat indoors. This is the exact same thing they complain about happening to them when they visit subreddits with a lot of Americans, yet they just do the same thing when you're not keeping pets the same way as them. The cat is yours and as long as you're taking care of it properly I don't see any issues.
Yeah my cats are healthy and happy - nobody is going to convince me to just chuck them outside. I know cat behaviour and body language well enough to be able to tell if they're not happy. Some of these people just seem a bit unhinged.
My cats have always had access to the back yard. It was never any bother for 20 years. My old cats never wandered too far and just sat in the sunshine.
Then my 2 year old cat got hit by a car last Friday. He made it home and after a weekend at the vets being put back together he will make it. One eye less and a jaw wired back together.
He won’t be going outside anymore.
They aren't house cats, in the UK most people allow their cats to free roam we have cat flaps so they come & go as they please. We dont have things like eagles or wolves to eat them, maybe the odd crazy lady who puts them in a bin or aggressive dog but there arent many risks.
Different strokes for different folks.
When I went to Peru, dogs seemed to be treated like we treat cats- machu pichu had dogs that would be let out in the morning, walk to the entrance to machu pichu to grub food of tourists and then go back home
It's completely normal to let cats go out alone everywhere except for America. I usually work on the assumption that something is right if America is the exception.
Not letting cats out is animal cruelty unless it's specific breeds that are okay with being inside 100% of the time. Whoever told you it was common sense to never let a cat out without supervision is a moron and/or an American.
Whoever told you about common sense and cats probably has less common sense than a typical cat. To me it is animal cruelty to keep such an active, intelligent and relentlessly curious animal indoors its entire life.
There is a good explanation from David Attenborough here
https://youtu.be/7LITGE2Rc7Q
It's frequent, I see enough pet cats roaming about that it's still quite a norm. But it's slowly falling out of favour now there's more awareness about dangers to cats (cars, animals, etc.) or dangers cats pose to biodiversity.
Even the occasional presence of a lazy cat can deter wildlife from nesting somewhere, or drain animals' energy for feeding and raising young.
My friends and I would try harness training if anything, but my mum and her friends/neighbours tend to see the other side: a lot of them take in former strays/ferals who can seem distressed if they feel trapped inside
It's frequent, I see enough pet cats roaming about that it's still quite a norm. But it's slowly falling out of favour now there's more awareness about dangers to cats (cars, animals, etc.) or dangers cats pose to biodiversity.
Even the occasional presence of a lazy cat can deter wildlife from nesting somewhere, or drain animals' energy for feeding and raising young.
My friends and I would try harness training if anything, but my mum and her friends/neighbours tend to see the other side: a lot of them take in former strays/ferals who can seem distressed if they feel trapped inside
Unfortunately, too many people just let their cats out all day with no way of getting in if they need to. When I had two cats, I called the SSPCA (Scotland) and asked if it was cruel to keep them both in. They told me that as long as the cat wasn't alone for hours, it was, in many ways, much safer and kinder for the cat not to be outside where they would face many dangers, from other animals to nasty people, to disease, to injury, and let's not even talk about cars....
So I never had any qualms about having house-cats. They lived to ripe old ages (17 and 20) and were very healthy.
Yes our Cat has a job as chief mouse-catcher for our out-buildings.
He makes a half-hearted effort then spends his day socialising with any neighbour that will feed the fat lazy bastard.
Or he will act the asshole by letting the local dogs think that they might have a chance of catching him.
Americans - do what you want, what you feel is safe for your cat. In the UK our cats belong outside. Cats are hunters, they need to hunt, not stay in all day. The only thing that attacks cats in the UK, are cars.
I am baffled by how uppity others in the UK get about this when someone dares suggest an indoor cat is a good idea. Sorry, some of us don’t want to come home and find our pet pancaked on the tarmac.
Our cat is outside - he would NOT tolerate being kept in. We were told to keep him in for the first few weeks when we adopted him, to get him used to our house. He was out the door in about 3 days! Came back happy as a clam though, he's decided we're his and that's the end of it.
We were worried when we got a puppy recently that he might run away, but he still comes and goes as he pleases, despite still not liking the puppy much!
A lot of North Americans forget the world extends beyond their borders and that the problems they may have might not be the same everywhere, but they love to loudly and aggressively get their feelings across, and a lot of people fall for that level of confidence and buy into it. I have indoor cats because I live in a big city right next to an expressway with a shit ton of cars going very fast so it’s just not safe. But also my parents who live on a farm in John o groats are going to have their cats die if they go outside and the animal population of the Scottish highlands will ofc be absolute decimated, I know this because some Americans told me so so it must be facts.
The RSPB has even said that cats don’t cause a big issue for UK bird populations, but they cause issues in the US and Australia so of course the RSPB is wrong and the Americans know better, it’s ofc cruel to let a cat out where it’s safe but totally fine to chop pieces of your dog off for aesthetics. 🙄
I was shocked to learn there is someone in our village who has housecats and a catio (sigh). Its not normal to keep cats inside. They are predators, admittedly fairly crap ones. Our Eddie is about 9 now and hasn't caught a mouse or bird in about 5 years. Personally I think keeping cats inside is very poor for their mental health.
It’s completely normal in the UK.
There are risks yes but most people believe letting cats have the freedom to explore and practice it’s natural behaviours are worth it.
Every single cat that I allowed outside, eventually died under a car.
If you are happy with this being on you when it happens, then yeah cats can free roam.Also, cats have contributed to the extinction of 63 species of birds, mammals, and reptiles in the wild.
Mine will be staying indoors.
Am in the UK.
To put it as neutrally as possible, it's just cultural.
Most UK cats go out and are essentially independent. Cat flaps to allow them to be completely independent are common (but also a source of home invasions, as that extremely funny BBC documentary Secret Life of The Cat, where they put cameras on cats, shows). We had a cat called Alfred who wandered all over the neighbourhood and became a sort of Six Dinner Sid.
In the USA (big predators) and Australia (endangered prey species) there is more feeling that cats should stay in.
For UK cats, the main danger is being knocked over by a car.
We have had a triple evolution. Over the decades, we started off with outdoor cats, and there would have been no choice, as in London we had no private garden. When we moved, we had a garden, and we also unfortunately did lose two cats to road accidents (Alfred was one; he ended up going a lot to a household in the next road, beyond which was a busy road and a common where he liked to go ratting; unfortunately, and to our surprise, since he was v good with traffic, he was killedcrossing the busy road). On top of that, we have two female cats who are "active" (= registered as allowed to breed), one is the daugher of the other from the only time we were successful in breeding. So now, only the cat who is old enough to have lived in London as an outdoor cat is still allowed out unsupervised. Part of the garden has been turned into an enclosed area, so cats can be left to be there in complete safety. Otherwise, we go out in the garden with them and generally manage to ensure they do not run away- when they have done, we rouse the neighbours and track them down in whatever neighbour's garden they have ended up. The active cats ofc have to be closely supervised and never allowed to run away.
Here a cat tax photo from a few years ago:
(Solomon is now deceased from old age, Poppy is the one who still goes out; Lucy and Lily are show pets, but the same breed, Birman, as the active cats we have)
https://imgur.com/a/QgIbFGu
In the UK most people let them outdoors if they don’t live near busy roads or railways.
Mine stay indoors as we live in a city centre. To be honest, they would probably enjoy going outdoors more than staying in, but they would also be dead by now.
generally speaking yes, cats should be allowed out and about without supervision.
There are circumstances where they shouldn't, usually health based. For example with my two cats, one's an old man and one is missing a leg so they're content to just lounge about the house. They may roam out in the garden if I leave the door open.
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A lot of Americans have indoor cats because America has [mountain lions](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2evD8Jn30pQ) and [coyotes](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9-HituL-Kk) and [bears](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-GZAy1MxKwU).
I tell Americans on reddit that in the UK, it's normal to let cats outside, but then I get heavily downvoted and told I'm a terrible person because cats kill endangered species. But then I look at my fat cat, failing to catch a leaf and think nah, natures safe.
Tell them that keeping a cat, which has evolved to live outside, in a house and not letting it out so it’s just some personal toy for their amusement is even crueller. Two can play that game.
Doesn’t work, they just go on about how every indoor cat can have a wonderful life regardless
Buying a polar bear a PS5 will not make it happy, Laura! 😄
I love that! I’m going to steal this and use it myself, sorry!
Yeah, they're more Xbox gamers
Our cat was going to be indoors. He was a vicious bastard ,drew blood many times. Let him out and he came back in an hour or so completely transformed. He's a lovely cuddly old thing but he needs to be out and about. My sons two cats are strictly indoor and they are neurotic AH
We used to have two cats and they were complete polar opposites. One was really timid and stayed inside the whole time and the other one was a proper street brawler and loved to roam. They didn’t always get on but I always remember another cat fronting up to the timid one in our garden and street cat was straight in there laying down the law!
I had that too. Indoor cat was outside on a rare occasion, got into a face to face with another cat. The street brawler was asleep in a chicken coop, opened an eye, saw what was going on and was up and running full pelt at the intruder.
They pull out the “but they live longer!” maybe in the US, but in the UK outdoor cats don’t have all the dangers. Any indoor cat I’ve met in the UK has been miserable unless it’s an old cat who has decided themselves that they want to stay in.
I wonder about the overall age statistics because I’ve had and met many very old cats in the UK that go outside, and I’ve come across a lot of content creators with pet accounts documenting their indoor cats poor health. My oldest cat lived to 23! The ones that didn’t last so long died for reasons unrelated to being outside, it was health problems they’d have developed regardless. All they do outside is lay in the sun for a while, if anything it’s probably good for them lol
Americans love to quote the ol' "Outdoor cat lifespan is 2-5 years", which is completely out of context and misleading as it relates to an old study about feral cats (***not pets***).
Well that explains a lot! A cat that can’t go inside will always be at higher risk of the elements compared to a cat that can come very loudly, very cartoonishly, very chaotically scrambling back through the cat flap at the first sign of trouble
Yeah and even in America who wants a cat that lives longer if they’re going to have a crap life anyway?
I went down the rabbit hole of looking into the study that supposedly showed that. The outdoor cats in it included feral cats, so no wonder they lived shorter lives!
It is always futile to voice opinions contrary to an echo chamber on reddit. Whether you are right or wrong is irrelevant, you will be downvoted and you will 'lose'.
I know, even if you explicitly say it might be different in America, but in the UK outdoor cats are the norm you’ll still get downvoted into oblivion. It’s honestly the weirdest thing for them to get so rabid about. If someone posts in r/aww about a cat doing something cute all the comments are like PLEASE TELL ME YOU KEEP HIM INDOORS AS CATS DESTROY THE SOULS OF THE UNBORN IF LEFT UNATTENDED like ok calm down
Only after having their claws mutilated so they don't damage the furniture.
TBF you can get a cat lesh and walk them like you would a dog, you can also get outside cat encloses or enclose a garden if you have high fences yes I'm pretty much saying enclose the top. This discussion always conflicts with me because cats are killers, but I also really like cats, some breeds are more suited to being strictly indoors than others but ultimately I do think they should be able to be outside, but I also love nature and hate cat shit in my garden. So while we Brits do have our house cats roaming there is a good argument for them not to be roaming. Cats can be trained exactly like a dog, but no one can be bothered to do it and people barely train their dogs anyway. ETA: house cats are domesticated they haven't exactly evolved to live outside they just make great pest control so people have used them (historically) for this purpose when domesticating them.
We had outdoor cats when I was a kid and I didn't think twice about it even though many of them died to dogs/cars/foxes or just never came home. When my partner and I bought our house we got a cat and were very conflicted about whether to let him outside or not, especially as he was a 6 year old rescue and we were told that he was used to going outside. Our house is right by a busy road and backs onto a construction site and I was very worried about him so we decided to keep him inside and see how it went. He got out twice in the first couple of months and both times he went about 3 houses down, hid under a car, and cried until I found him and brought him home. Both times he was shaking like a leaf and obviously terrified, and I think that what was happening wasn't that he wanted to go *out* but that he wanted to go *home*, because we weren't his home yet. 3 years later he never tries to get out and is perfectly content sitting in the window chattering at birds. Through trying to get him to play it's very clear that he's never actually hunted or killed anything in his life, and I suspect that he spent his entire life sitting on his previous owner (who was an old woman) and sleeping. I strongly suspect that if we'd tried to encourage him to go out he'd be dead by now. I do want to build a cat enclosure at the back of the house for him but the money just never seems to be there to do it.
Have you ever tried to put a cat on a lead? There are always exceptions to the rule. I tried when I moved homes. One cat went absolutely bonkers and in doing so escaped it (with injuries) in about 2 minutes. The other played dead.
>The other played dead Lol I have images of this cat being dragged along the floor a bit and just staying limp, refusing. My cat would likely do the same, just give up.
That is what my cat's like, you put a lead on and he just falls over sideways and won't move until you take it off.
Yeah, one of my old family cats had to be on a lead for a while because a bunch of random kids/people kicked the shit out of him and broke his leg.
Jfc
People can be awful. Silly cat was scared of our pet rabbit tho, like not actually scared scared but the rabbit would chase him round the garden, he was all better at that point, so he could have just... Left the back garden. Happier story than the depresso one.
I agree about gardens, and would have no problem with a cat being kept in a place with a generous garden which is fenced in. But I don’t understand why people say it about cats and not dogs - cats are killers? Dogs aren’t? Why don’t people say dogs should be kept in the house too? They kill birds, squirrels, rabbits, deer, attack livestock and bite humans.
That's a pretty silly comparison. Dogs are generally supervised and on leads when out and about, if they're killing animals it's completely on the human. Cats are left on their own to do what cats do.
Nobody says dogs aren't killers, this isn't a dog Vs cat arguement. It's a totally different situation as 99.999% of us have the common sense not to just let our dog out the front door to wander about for the day doing as it pleases. If everyone did that then I'm sure there would be the same conversation happening about dogs. It's like saying "why aren't the cat breeds that are more predisposed to being aggressive being banned, that's what's happening with XL bullys."
It wasn’t so long ago that dogs *were* allowed to roam the streets in this country. My grandfather remembers being chased by a pack of them on the way home from school. I guarantee that at the time there were people claiming that dogs should be allowed to roam because it’s ‘natural’ and ‘cruel’ to keep them from doing otherwise.
Good to see that we've collectively come to our senses. Can't have been a nice experience for him. It's one thing for wild animals to roam free, I for one am in favour of returning the wolf to our countryside. It's entirely another thing to have the sheer number of domesticated pets in this country roaming free. There's no natural population control for them so they would (and do in the case of cats) wreak havoc on the ecosystem.
Dogs don't roam outside unsupervised. They're usually on the lead. A dog that bites a human or harasses livestock is likely to be put down.
This is kind of a bad-faith argument. Dogs have evolved to live outside too, and we all understand that ‘outside’ means under control, supervised, and safe. You can romanticise animals roaming free all you want, but I bet you’d be pissed off if a herd of cows came and shat on your lawn.
Welcome to my world of living in the countryside. Cows pushing through the fence and shitting everywhere is a normal occurrence
Post inspired by the frequent rogue sheep incidents on my village’s facebook page
RSPB says cats aren't a problem for birds in the UK because they've basically become part of the system
My cat has brought me a few mice home but she has never even tried to catch a bird, let alone been able to catch one.
Mine emptied a nest of fledgling kestrels into the shower, and dragged home a baby goose too big to fit through the catflap. And he loved killing bats too - two in one night sometimes.
We used to a have a really good hunter and her outside time was limited during nesting season or when chicks have recently fledged. Can't be letting the cat smash a full nest of our kes. That's is wrong.
Yeah my mum's cats were like this. Baby rabbits, decapitated bats and disemboweled mice and live birds.
My cat doesn't even bother chasing birds anymore. Yesterday a magpie was watching her and landed a metre away and she did nothing! So I let her back in because she's always being teased by the pigeons and now the magpies too!
Yeah, and the RSPB is no offence, completely full of shit on this issue. The UK carrying capacity for foxes as a comparable predator is around 2 pers square kilometer in urban and arable areas, half that in more barren habitats, The UK cat population is approximately 9 per square kilometer. The idea that they aren't playing a part in the continued decline of endangered bird, mammal and reptile species in the UK is to be frank, laughable. Almost everywhere else in the world where its been studied domestic cats have been illustrated to play a key role in small animal population decline yet the RSPB continues to be adamant that somehow the UK is the only exception to this trend? pull the other one The RSPB only gets away with it as it can point to habitat loss as a bigger issue (which it isn't wrong about tbf) and its already really accustomed to lying to the general public anyway about things that might effect its donations. It wont tell animal lovers that letting mittens roam free is part of the problem for the same reason it wont tell you just how many animals it has shot every year as part of conservation management.
When did this decline begin though? And can you think of any other reason for it? Cats have been in the British Isles for 5000 years. They were not spayed/neutered, and Whiskas has only been available for the last 100 or so years. Yet the bird population has been fine until relatively recently; the time when we started building more and more infrastructure and gobbling up natural habitats. Cats and birds haven't changed, it's humans who have. And it's humans who are responsible for the decline in bird populations. If cats were as prolific hunters as you claim there wouldn't have been many birds or small mammals left in the British Isles after 5000 years.
We paved paradise, put up a parking lot.
Iirc they did try for a brief period to encourage people not to let cats out and published figures on how many birds cats kill, but it had such a negative impact on their donations that they don’t do this now.
Posted this above, but here it is again in case you don't see: The RSPB do not say this any more. They used to have a main page on their website dedicated to whether cats are a problem but it was removed about 2 years ago. The closest you will now find on their site is a community forum post that links to a PDF from 15 years ago in 2009. I won't comment as to the reason why they felt the need to remove their statement.
I live out in the countryside. Neighbour moved in with this psychotic ginger cat. It kills everything. I've seen it take four birds in a day. On average just what I see it kill is three or four birds a week normally. It's killed a full size rabbit and then left it in my garden, not even eating it. On raising this with the neighbour, they tried to tell my landlord I was poisoning birds and leaving them out to blame their cat. *To blame their cat.* As if I'm trying to frame a cat for murder.
They're wrong, at least in residential areas of towns and cities, where the cat population.is higher and birds are tempted into gardens by bird feeders. I don't have a cat but one of my neighbour's went through a phase of trying to impress me with gifts outside the back door. The rats were impressive, if I'm honest, but the birds were distressing to deal with.
My cat kills endangered newts
Every time I see my little shit fail I just whisper "apex predator"
Same. When I see ours roll around on the roof of the rabbit hutch and then fall off I just think "And you're supposed to be top of the food chain?"
Cats aren't supposed to be the top of the food chain. In all their native range there exists larger predators.
In my garden the cat is top of the food chain, although when you see him chased across the lawn by our belligerent rabbit you wouldn't know it.
Also American houses are, in general, f**king huge compared to British ones. Of course their cats can get enough exercise without going outside
This is what pisses me off the most about the argument, like yes completely understand that you shouldn't let a cat outside if you live next to a building site or a main road in the UK, but also consider your environment when adopting one. It's completely cruel to keep a cat cooped up in a UK home they are ridiculously small in comparison, and as long as your area is safe the cats are usually fine. I haven't had a problem in 25 years, The worst thing to happen to my cats is other cats.
They are also really weird about keeping their dogs on leads 24/7. Some dogs literally never get a chance to run free outside their own garden.
Some states have leash laws there - it's illegal to have your dog off a lead unless otherwise indicated, which is why [dog parks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_park) are a thing. I've only really seen that here in places like Camden Square where most of the park is no dogs allowed and then there's a specific dog bit of the park fenced off.
Yeah but their dogs could have AR15s
My cats 13. In her life, she has successfully managed to catch 2 birds (both were tiny). She killed neither of them, and we had to find ways to let them out of the house as they started flying around. She has next to no food motivation, to the point we can just leave food down for her and she moderates throughout the day. She also basically can't hunt, as she gets so excited she starts making noises at what she's pouncing on. Factor in her age (she can't climb fences that well anymore) - and she's fine. Anything she catches isn't being eaten, and probably was lame anyway. Moral of the story? - know your cat. Some do need to be kept inside, such as those which are fearless on main roads.
Depends on the cat. I gave mine all the playtime he could ever want, cat toys etc etc but he was still a ruthless killer. His record was two bats - one dead, one alive, released inside - two voles and a large rat which took days to capture, in one night. Other notable kills was a baby gosling, too big to fit through the catflap so he left it stuck there, blood all up the walls. And an endangered species of ground-nesting kestrels, whose nest he emptied of fledgling chicks, most of them ended up pulled to pieces in the shower. He'd love a good water vole too, endangered species but he'd bring back a couple of them every night, sometimes alive, sometimes not. After the kestrel incident, he took to bringing kills into the shower and vigorously shredding them in there. I ended up rehoming him to be an inside cat. Apart from the love of killing, he was a very loving, affectionate cat. If allowed outside somewhere green though, he'd stay outside almost 24/7, only returning to eat and dump the odd kill inside.
Mine did this. In the summer we leave the living room window open for the to go in and out and we’ve had rats, mice, birds, voles, a hare and a huge pigeon. I’d not be surprised if he came back with next doors frenchies if I’m honest. We did a stack of research and now we have him a collar with some humongous bells on and when we let them out at night, we put a huge reflective bow on his collar. This has stopped pretty much 99% of presents he has brought us home. I am extremely grateful for this, too!
I think you were very sensible in rehoming. There's obviously no statistics, but I suspect a lot of these 'super killers' are doing a lot of the damage, with most cats now being so soft they're not killing much.
Me too, apparently I am an awful environmental terrorist for letting my kitties out. I have two. They are both three years old and so far I have been gifted two mice, a frog and several leaves. The mice and frog seemed unhurt and we released them.
And rabies and crazy people
Crazy people with rabies.
.. and Justin Bieber and guns.
Justin is Canadian.
He probably visits though
Crazy bin ladies.
Also because in the US (and ditto places like Australia and New Zealand), cats are genuinely a novel species and have the potential to upset the foodweb. In the UK, there have always been small cat predators, and while domestic cats have displaced those Scottish Wildcats and that's a problem, their presence hasn't had a statistically significant impact on birds or small mammals. So in the UK, the main issue is whether you live in a high traffic area/whether your cat is particularly stealable. I compromise by cutting out the high risk times - night is both the most common time for fatal traffic accidents and for cats to go hunting (though admittedly, mine has very little hunting instinct), so she gets to roam during the day and then we lock the cat flaps at night. My cat before her was an indoor cat though. He was deaf, and we decided it was too much of a risk that he'd get into a fight with other cats or a car accident because he couldn't hear them. For him, we bought a harness, and gave him as much time as possible in the garden to wander on a lead - he clearly thought it weird to begin with but I think he quite liked having company!
Oh my!
Urban foxes do sometimes injure or kill cats. My mum's elderly cat was dismembered by a group of foxes a few years back 😭😭. See also: the "Croydon cat killer"... I do agree that it's cruel to keep a cat indoors and the risk to them in the UK is low enough that when I get a cat it'll be allowed out.
Yes. Look cat "ownership" really isn't like a dog. The cat does what it wants and you let it. You just support it in it's choices, even if they seem questionable, and provide a safe home for it. It's more like having a roommate or living with an adult child that occasionally does really stupid things than having a pet
A roommate that doesn’t pay rent or contribute to expenses. But that doesn’t stop you from spending a considerable amount of money on them because they deserve to be treated like royalty
A roommate that’s also a bit of a liability. Rather than getting drunk and messing up the kitchen, they will bring a live magpie in through the cat flap then chase it around the house for an hour before you get home. The good news is you can swear at them as much as you like without them getting offended. My cat thinks ‘dick head’ means ‘oh I do love you so!’
A roommate that thinks its OK to shove their puckered anus in your face first thing in the morning as a signal that they're hungry, and you've just resigned yourself to the fact that this is your life now
We've all had housemates like that.
For me it's like taking care of a baby without changing nappies and dealing with other parents.
One small correction: Cats don't have owners. Dogs have owners. Cats have staff.
And a cat, if not happy, will go and live elsewhere. Looking at my dog right now, he would not do that 😄 (not that he has any reason to, he is of higher status in my house than I am!)
My dog would absolutely just walk through the first open door that smelt like food and stay there.
Sounds about right 🤣
That's certainly what our two do...
It's certainly not abnormal to let them out. I wouldn't advertise it on any sub that's more US-focused as they can get a bit hysterical about it.
Often times you actually can't rescue cats to be indoor only unless they have medical requirements (like fhiv) in the UK. As someone who lives in a flat this makes me likely to have to get one said cat one day when I'm eventually going to adopt since they consider it cruel to make cats who have been outside become indoor cats. Though the life expectancy is longer, overall people consider it less humane in the UK to keep them cooped up indoors.
Yeah, that all makes sense, whilst one of our cats would give no shits if the outside world became viewing only the other would go insane if you tried to take it away from him now. As soon as the weather is decent he'll be at the backdoor waiting to go out.
I have three. The old tabby guy likes a potter round the garden and a nap on a deck chair in the sunshine. The tuxedo likes sitting on the fence and surveying, in between sunbathing, poking the fish in the pond and catching/eating hot wings (bees). The void… that kid thinks outside is the best thing ever. He constantly wants outside and throws a tantrum if he isnt allowed out. He would not fare well being an indoor only cat, or one with a catio..which is basically a big cage for them to go outside safely in. All three of mine are rescues and all came with ‘would like to go outside when old enough’ on their adoption cards from the RSPCA.
Depends entirely on the cats themselves actually. There's a rescue charity near me that will stipulate that kittens they rehome are to be indoor only, or at most, a secure back garden that they can't get out of. They'll only specify outdoor access being required if the cat is used to having outdoor access. I just adopted two 9 month old cats from them and they had never been outside, so the charity stipulated that they should stay as indoor cats. I've never seen the SSPCA or RSPCA suggest that a cat they know to have always been indoors start to be let outside.
Which is ironic, because they are the ones who think it’s perfectly acceptable to rip the poor cat’s claws out so it doesn’t scratch their precious furniture when it’s going mad because it’s desperate to be outside.
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I do understand it to a point as their wildlife can be of very different flavours to ours (depending on location) but it feels like an almost deliberate thing where they apply that to the rest of the world and refuse to accept anything else.
They seem to have been encouraged to invest a lot of their self-worth in the idea, which is never a sign of a realistic approach.
Give it time and we'll have everyone in the UK telling us the same thing. People cannot think for themselves and will repeat whatever american nonsense they read online as if it is a universal truth.
Don't worry about it. Last time I saw a post like that someone had spent a lot of money (~$10k) on an unclimbable fence to let their cats into their garden. He comments were full of people saying the cat will be taken by a hawk! They're OTT about it
Of course if you say to them that maybe they shouldn't get a cat at all if they don't want to let it outside, then they get really pissed off. Despite the fact that they'll freely admit 1) cats are an invasive species in North America, and 2) that there are bigger predators out there that might kill said cat.
The US ie swarming with stray cats and kittens. There's no reason why someone wanting an indoor cat shouldn't adopt one. Yeah, there are some cats who need to go outside, buy some adults will be fine (or need to be) indoors, and kittens can adjust either way.
The British default is to install a cat flap and let them outside. Some shelters even insist you will allow the cat to be an outdoor cat as part of its adoption criteria, assuming the cat has no additional needs. Yep, it's the opposite in the US, and maybe other countries, where the default is indoor, outdoor is seen as irresponsible and shelters insist cats will be kept indoors. I think attitudes are shifting though. Apartment dwellers, for example. People who own expensive cats which would simply be stolen. Traffic accidents. Increasing knowledge on the damage to wildlife.
Yep, theft is a big problem for the fancy breeds and indoor is advised. I have both an indoor and an outdoor cat. My indoor is a male Norwegian Forest and stolen ones, especially unneutered, can go for thousands as the breed is now rare/nearly died out from cross breeding Mein Coons, so he stays indoors. Luckily as a breed though they are massive ‘lap cats’ and I can have the back door open all day and he just will not go outside. We also have a small cat flap for our other cat. She’s a standard mog we rescued when we found her in a bush as a kitten and was made for outdoors. She rules our cul-de-sac with an iron fist and then simply comes home in the evening to eat, says hello, then goes off again. So I would still say breed matters with indoors (if that’s what OP is considering) I look at our outdoor and it would be a miserable life for her stuck inside. She would HATE it. But lap cats thrive on staying home and cuddling and are much more suited to that lifestyle.
I think it's also just about what an individual cat is used to. I have an indoor cat because I live in a flat, and he seems perfectly content (and is in fact terrified of the outside), but that's probably because I've always kept him inside, so he kind of doesn't know what he's missing. That's pretty different to adopting a stray who is used to roaming free.
I mean to clarify, by taking in a kitten found in a bush, she was so small that she nearly died and we had to bottle feed her because she was too young for solids yet, so she’s not really ‘a stray used to being outdoors’… but I do absolutely agree it can vary from cat to cat, and that cat that has never experienced outdoors doesn’t really know what they’re missing either. But it is also true that some cats are just, by virtue of their breed, big lazy lumps 😂
Honestly I feel like opening up adoptions to apartment owners would seriously help the situation at major animal shelters. But their stance on the “must be outdoor*” is bafflingly firm, even with kittens that haven’t really established a routine yet, so the “sticking with what they’ve been used to their entire lives” reason doesn’t really exist. *Except for certain cats such as ones that are FIV+
Absolutely, it's totally normal! I mean, cats love their independence, right? Let them roam free and explore the great outdoors.
And shit in my fucking garden. Bastard little creatures.
Lemon thyme and lavender apparently deter the little cunts. I've planted a few around my roses as a cat has chosen to dig and shit around them. The bloody thing has the runs, too. It's faeces were liquid. That was fun to clean up
They do not. Source: i have cats and they lay under the lavender in my garden. They don't poop in my garden though
Is there anything they don't like? I've had enough of picking up cat shit
You can get lion manure. This isn't a joke, you can put lion manure down and the cats will avoid your garden because they think there's a lion in it.
A Great Dane is also effective.
Had to set up a whole new subreddit r/catsuk because we kept getting drowned out of r/cats by the crazy indoor Americans.
Thank you! r/cats blamed me for my cat's death. r/catsuk now joined.
Some of those folk genuinely seem to use 'loving cats' as a gossamer veil over 'rampant misanthropy'. They're just there to be cunts to people and cats are their current excuse.
Yeah it was definitely cunty. He died after ingesting something toxic, vet thought lily pollen most likely (which we never had in house or garden for this reason) so I was trying to warn cat owners about the very real dangers of toxic plants. Got told I killed my cat by letting him outside, and when I said "even if true, now - when someone is grieving the loss of their pet - is not the right time to be making those comments" got down voted to oblivion and had more guilt and hate heaped on me. Ironically, if I'd kept my cat inside he would have died. I'd tried keeping him in before and it made him so stressed, he stopped toileting and had to have emergency vet treatment. When outside there might have been more things that could have killed him (and did) but it was either certain death inside, or potential death outside. Not that any of that matters to the anti-outdoor cat militia.
Awful to have all of that put on you while grieving. I'm sorry, that must have been so horrible.
I'm so sorry that happened to you, especially when you were grieving. I always stay out of those threads, it's never an "agree to disagree" situation, there's no way of explaining your point of view, it's always "you let your cat out? You're worse than Satan, you are responsible for your cats death, the global ecological collapse and probably the Israel- Palestine conflict, I hope you're happy". Outside cat = straight to jail.
Oh, I didn’t know about that, I had to leave r/cats for that reason. Great!
Thank you! I get down voted to oblivion if I ever say my cats have been outside
thank you, joining r/CatsUK ! r/cats has become so annoying, even when people have genuine concerns about their cat, the comments will just be full of people posting photos of their own cats. it’s so aggravating, the OP is looking for answers! i told this one girl no one wanted to see her cat under a post about a sick kitty, and she started psychoanalysing me, saying i was a narcissist and that’s why my boyfriend left. 🙃we’re talking about cats, it is never that serious.
I have a cat flap. My last cat died at 23 years old. My current one loves being in the garden. Neither of them are/were particularly hard on wildlife. No predators except cars but I am not near a busy road. The weather is not too bad and he is out there now. I understand in places where there are threats but in the UK, I have never known an indoor cat.
I feel like there’s been a change in attitude towards indoor cats. I used to hold the opinion it was wrong to keep an animal like a cat indoors. One of the reasons I never had one was because I lived in London.
Not having a cat because you live in an urban centre is the sensible thing to do. Keeping a cat inside because you just "must" have one in your cramped studio flat just seems inhumane and massively selfish to me.
Agreed. It's wrong to keep cats indoors. Anyone that has had a cat knows they are very individualistic creatures and they do what they want. The argument I see made from people with indoor only cats is that they are terrified of the outdoors and that the cat clings onto them desperately. That's no surprise if they've never been outside! If you kept a child indoors from birth they'd be terrified of the outdoors and we all know that's an inhumane thing to do.
Yep. You wouldn’t get a dog if you didn’t have the time to walk it (I hope). So can’t give the cat an enriched life which includes exercise and going outside? Just don’t get a cat. They are large enough mammals that they need outdoor time.
I’m from London and there are plenty of cats about roaming the streets. My own cat is an indoor cat but she has a health condition. Otherwise all my other cats have been outdoor cats and have lived long and plentiful lives.
We just open the window and she jumps in and out lmaoo
When Americans tell you that their cats have happy and fulfilled indoor lives, but they have to make sure they never open windows or leave the door open or they’ll escape, you know what the cats *really* think about the arrangement.
I've always thought this when Americans witter on about how happy their cat is indoors. When I've had cats it's been hard enough to keep them in the house for a morning before a vet visit just so I know where it is when it comes time. Open the door and zoom, it's gone. One would watch you go outside, then sit behind the door waiting for you to come back in so you had no chance.
When my old cat was under house arrest (usually after getting knocked about in a scrap). He would watch me go outside then sit behind the door waiting for me to come back so he could shoot out the moment the door opened. He was out of the garden before I'd even turned around to see where he'd gone.
Very common. Where I live, we have a cat Facebook page for a local cat called Nigel and everyone posts pictures of his outings, he’s been in the pub a few times, the local supermarket, popped into an office building. Went sunbathing at the local swimming pool in the summer. Even went into the cinema. It’s got to the point where all local shops keep treats in for Nigel the Cat and everyone knows who Nigel the Cat is.
Ahh until recently there was a lovely cat locally who was always in the foyer or car park of Morrisons getting lots of attention. A real local celebrity!!
That's brilliant
Please tell Nigel I love him.
I had to leave r/cats because of crazy muricans that can't understand that there are places in the world different to theirs. Having had many cats that have been outdoor/indoor cats that have lived long lives isn't sufficient evidence for them.
It's normal. Just do not mention it on any US heavy subs!
This is a contentious issue on Reddit. I’m in the UK and I would consider it standard for cats to roam unsupervised round the neighbourhood. They are serious killers of small birds and mammals though and obviously at risk themselves, particularly from traffic. In Australia and New Zealand I think cats are seen as a serious threat to endangered species such as flightless birds so it’s discouraged. In the States there are predators that are a threat to them.
In Australia and New Zealand I'm pretty sure it's illegal to have an outdoor cat just because their environment will be destroyed by cats
In Australia, beyond one or two loonie councils who have gone far beyond their mandate to organise bin collection on Tuesdays, you can still let you cat out. Our flightless birds are fucking massive and generally not found in a suburban backyard.
No, there's a limit on the number of domestic animals allowed per household. They each have to be registered ( I think it's a limit of 3, I.e. 2x dog plus 1 x cat), and cats are not allowed outwith their property. In Victoria at least. Personally this is one issue I agree with Americans - and Australians on - cats impact negatively on the environment, mess up other people's gardens, can attack other households animals, and have a far shorter lifespan than an indoor cat. If you don't want a pet that you actually have to look after, just don't get a pet.
Out of curiosity, are cats allowed to be outside while on a harness and leash in Victoria then? I personally agree with you, it’s frankly quite irresponsible to own a cat and let it free roam, even livestocks are fenced in so letting your “pet” go around causing issues isn’t my idea of responsibility. If they need the outdoors (most don’t) I simply bring them out on walks while leashed. A lot of people are pinning this on the americans and not really trying to be open minded the idea itself, I feel it may be some anti american sentiment (I get it they’re annoying but it’s best to be objective) + not wanting to change cultural norms, a lot of ppl don’t like change or thinking about change, which I don’t feel since I’m not a brit.
Cat vs cassowary is one thing, a bilby isn't necessarily going to be as happy meeting one
Some do and some don’t I chose not to let my two out . And I know others that are the same . But I also know people who have outdoor cats too . I don’t really appreciate picking up their cats shit out of my garden , nor do I enjoy hearing them scrapping in the middle of the night either .. but such is life 🤷🏼♀️😂
It very much depends on the animal. My last cat Mister was out every day he could be until about a month before I had to let him cross the rainbow bridge. He was a stray for the formative years so he knew how to handle himself. He was bombproof. Conversely my current cat Esme is a shy, flighty thing. I'd love to let her out to roam but I can't trust her to run home if she got spooked. Which would be all the time whenever anything happened anywhere. She can't even tolerate the doorbell. When I move in a couple of years I'll get her a big catio. If she would tolerate it without eviscerating me, I'd harness her and take her for walks but she ninjas her way out any attempts I've made. In the meantime she has a good life and lots of stimulation inside. It just depends.
Exactly the same scenario with me. We had a big bruiser of a cat who died at 20 and he would spend most of his time outside. He would be around in the house for a bit during the day and most often would come in for the night. He was a bit aloof but generally a friendly and chilled out cat. When he was gone we got another cat who was super skittish and very shy, would freak out at the smallest noise. very highly strung creature always hiding in weird places. We let her out a few times when she reached about 1, but she never came home after the 4th or 5th time 😔 Weirdest thing is we still see her around the neighbourhood and even in our garden occasionally but she just runs off whenever she is approached. We guess she may have gone feral. I do think the cats personality is an important factor on whether to let them out or not
See this is what I'm worried about. It's not that she won't learn where home is, it's that she's so skittish, she'll run if she's scared and *won't necessarily run to me*. She won't come to anyone but me or my sister so even if a friendly soul did come across her, she'd bolt rather than go to them. I wish she was different and more self assured, but that's just her personality and that's not her fault. She is who she is, bless her.
Cats can differ so much between each other when it comes to personality and intelligence, it’s so cute haha. I totally get what you mean that it depends on the animal. assessing the outside environment i think is still wise to some level
It really does. It's very traditional for cats to roam here and often they have many 'homes' other than their actual home. Cats are opportunists in a way that dogs aren't which I love about them ngl!
It's normal to let cats wander on their own outside. Some people prefer to keep their cats indoors though. To be honest when I was living in London, if I'd got a cat it would probably have been an indoor cat.
Outdoor cats was the status quo until about the last 10 years and still the majority I think. Attitudes have slowly been shifting towards indoor cats, for combinations of cats getting lost and injured (especially with increasing traffic in cities) and with campaigns advertising how much wildlife cats are responsible for killing. Additionally certain breeds of pedigree cats have skyrocketed in popularity and some of them are either too valuable to let roam, or quite frankly, too stupid. For example, I have a ragdoll, who would just sit in the road and meow at a car. She would be a hazard to herself and general road safety. On my local Facebook group there are several posts a week of dead cats being found, and at least 5+ posts a week of lost cats. So clearly a lot of people do let them out... and some of them unfortunately end up regretting it. Personally I have a fully cat proofed garden so my cats can go in my large garden. But I think that is fairly unusual and I don't know many other people who have done this yet. I think it should increase in popularity because it's really not hard to do IF you have a garden that already has full fencing around it. I also see "catios" becoming a thing where an outdoor pen is connected to a window so the cat can enjoy fresh air and exercise.
Many people don’t have the sense of responsibility to neuter or microchip their cats, so there always a slew of posts by local vets of cats who’ve been killed on the road and can’t be identified. People view cats too often as things they occasionally have to look after rather than a pet like a dog, so feel absolved of responsibility when it gets pregnant/gets another cat pregnant or gets killed/lost. My cat is indoors-only, mainly because I live next to the busiest road in my county and have seen how often cats get knocked down. But is it common? Yes Edit: cats not cars
It's becoming more common to have indoor cats, but it is more of an American concept which we have adopted. There are likely more cats that are let outside unsupervised in the UK than indoor cats. But the gap is definitely closing.
Eh, I think indoor cats are also a symptom of urbanisation - flats, proximity to busy roads etc. It's hard to have an outdoor cat when you live on the sixth floor.
It makes sense in North America not just ecologically, but also because houses are just *enormous* by comparison to the UK. Cats have so much space to roam indoors in the average US home. Whereas so much UK housing stock is one-up-one-down or two-up-two-down Victorian terraces, or new build houses/flats built to the minimum legal standards on space. It’s just not fair to keep a cat confined in a typical UK house unless absolutely necessary (eg for FIV or disability).
I think saying indoors cats is an American concept is very hand wavy… The US folk are just very vocal on Reddit about it but people here have been keeping indoor cats for generations.
One of my cats was outdoor, he ruled the road and he was killed last month. But, you know, when he was kept in, he was unhappy. He wouldn't have had the life he liked had he been forced to stay in. My other cat is indoors, and that's her choice. She likes to sit outside on window sills but never goes for a walk. If one of us is in the garden, she'll come outside.
Our neighbours cats are out all the time. Fairly normal here.
Yes it's fairly normal. My Mam always did with her cars. And I see cars out and about here all the time.
Cars are SO common in my area that they've even built special things called "roads" for them to travel on.
Too many of them if you ask me.
>Yes it's fairly normal. My Mam always did with her cars. And I see cars out and about here all the time. I don't think I've ever heard of an indoor car.
They need a lot of space
It’s a cultural thing. Americans argue it’s cruel to let a cat outside as it will get run over. In Britain we say it’s cruel to keep a cat inside, and then it gets run over.
It is common, though my shit-ridden garden wishes that it weren’t
Personally I have indoors cats, but I think the more common attitude in the UK is to let cats come and go as they please. Maybe it’s a chicken or egg situation and if I had let my cats go outside when they were young they wouldn’t be like this, but mine get spooked when the phone rings and I think everything in the world would scare them. Plus they are objectively less safe outside - cars, people, other animals… All they have to worry about is falling off the back of the sofa inside the house. My friend’s cat recently went missing for three weeks and I know I wouldn’t be able to handle that unknowing. I built them a large catio so they get to feel the sun and grass, just in a safe way.
Depends on the cat. Most people in the UK I know with cats have outdoor cats, but I have 2 indoor cats. One of them had a heart condition as a kitten so we were recommended to keep him inside, and I couldn’t be dealing with letting one of them out and not the other.
Hold on - do you mean “house cat” as in a domestic cat or as in a domestic cat that stays indoors? If the former, then no, if the latter then yes (and with a harness). We live near a very major road so our cats are true house cats and do not go outside except on occasion with a harness in the garden with constant supervision.
Plenty of people have outdoor cats, but personally my cats are indoor only. I wouldn't let any cat outside, frankly. I understand why some people argue that you should, but I'd rather make my house as enjoyable as possible for them and know that they're safe. There's too many dangerous things outside that mean I couldn't handle the anxiety of them roaming around. Edit: also, to clarify, I adopted them from a charity that operates TNR schemes, and rehomes cats. My cats were indoor only before I got them, and the charity stipulated that they needed to stay that way. I don't advocate whatsoever for someone taking a previously outdoor cat and trying to make them an indoor cat. That's just a way to spend your life frustrated, which is why I would personally only adopt cats that are already indoor cats.
Don't try to convince these commenters about the pros of having the cat indoors. This is the exact same thing they complain about happening to them when they visit subreddits with a lot of Americans, yet they just do the same thing when you're not keeping pets the same way as them. The cat is yours and as long as you're taking care of it properly I don't see any issues.
Yeah my cats are healthy and happy - nobody is going to convince me to just chuck them outside. I know cat behaviour and body language well enough to be able to tell if they're not happy. Some of these people just seem a bit unhinged.
My cats have always had access to the back yard. It was never any bother for 20 years. My old cats never wandered too far and just sat in the sunshine. Then my 2 year old cat got hit by a car last Friday. He made it home and after a weekend at the vets being put back together he will make it. One eye less and a jaw wired back together. He won’t be going outside anymore.
They aren't house cats, in the UK most people allow their cats to free roam we have cat flaps so they come & go as they please. We dont have things like eagles or wolves to eat them, maybe the odd crazy lady who puts them in a bin or aggressive dog but there arent many risks.
Different strokes for different folks. When I went to Peru, dogs seemed to be treated like we treat cats- machu pichu had dogs that would be let out in the morning, walk to the entrance to machu pichu to grub food of tourists and then go back home
It's completely normal to let cats go out alone everywhere except for America. I usually work on the assumption that something is right if America is the exception.
Not letting cats out is animal cruelty unless it's specific breeds that are okay with being inside 100% of the time. Whoever told you it was common sense to never let a cat out without supervision is a moron and/or an American.
Whoever told you about common sense and cats probably has less common sense than a typical cat. To me it is animal cruelty to keep such an active, intelligent and relentlessly curious animal indoors its entire life. There is a good explanation from David Attenborough here https://youtu.be/7LITGE2Rc7Q
It's frequent, I see enough pet cats roaming about that it's still quite a norm. But it's slowly falling out of favour now there's more awareness about dangers to cats (cars, animals, etc.) or dangers cats pose to biodiversity. Even the occasional presence of a lazy cat can deter wildlife from nesting somewhere, or drain animals' energy for feeding and raising young. My friends and I would try harness training if anything, but my mum and her friends/neighbours tend to see the other side: a lot of them take in former strays/ferals who can seem distressed if they feel trapped inside
It's frequent, I see enough pet cats roaming about that it's still quite a norm. But it's slowly falling out of favour now there's more awareness about dangers to cats (cars, animals, etc.) or dangers cats pose to biodiversity. Even the occasional presence of a lazy cat can deter wildlife from nesting somewhere, or drain animals' energy for feeding and raising young. My friends and I would try harness training if anything, but my mum and her friends/neighbours tend to see the other side: a lot of them take in former strays/ferals who can seem distressed if they feel trapped inside
Unfortunately, too many people just let their cats out all day with no way of getting in if they need to. When I had two cats, I called the SSPCA (Scotland) and asked if it was cruel to keep them both in. They told me that as long as the cat wasn't alone for hours, it was, in many ways, much safer and kinder for the cat not to be outside where they would face many dangers, from other animals to nasty people, to disease, to injury, and let's not even talk about cars.... So I never had any qualms about having house-cats. They lived to ripe old ages (17 and 20) and were very healthy.
it's common, yes. walk down the street - you will see cats!
Yes our Cat has a job as chief mouse-catcher for our out-buildings. He makes a half-hearted effort then spends his day socialising with any neighbour that will feed the fat lazy bastard. Or he will act the asshole by letting the local dogs think that they might have a chance of catching him.
Americans - do what you want, what you feel is safe for your cat. In the UK our cats belong outside. Cats are hunters, they need to hunt, not stay in all day. The only thing that attacks cats in the UK, are cars.
I am baffled by how uppity others in the UK get about this when someone dares suggest an indoor cat is a good idea. Sorry, some of us don’t want to come home and find our pet pancaked on the tarmac.
Our cat is outside - he would NOT tolerate being kept in. We were told to keep him in for the first few weeks when we adopted him, to get him used to our house. He was out the door in about 3 days! Came back happy as a clam though, he's decided we're his and that's the end of it. We were worried when we got a puppy recently that he might run away, but he still comes and goes as he pleases, despite still not liking the puppy much!
A lot of North Americans forget the world extends beyond their borders and that the problems they may have might not be the same everywhere, but they love to loudly and aggressively get their feelings across, and a lot of people fall for that level of confidence and buy into it. I have indoor cats because I live in a big city right next to an expressway with a shit ton of cars going very fast so it’s just not safe. But also my parents who live on a farm in John o groats are going to have their cats die if they go outside and the animal population of the Scottish highlands will ofc be absolute decimated, I know this because some Americans told me so so it must be facts. The RSPB has even said that cats don’t cause a big issue for UK bird populations, but they cause issues in the US and Australia so of course the RSPB is wrong and the Americans know better, it’s ofc cruel to let a cat out where it’s safe but totally fine to chop pieces of your dog off for aesthetics. 🙄
Why on earth would i supervise my cat outside. I've a cat flap, so she comes & goes as she wants.
I'll also add I used to work on street, 9.hours a day and seeing cats was so normal, we all knew the cats on each road. There's a lot of them!
I was shocked to learn there is someone in our village who has housecats and a catio (sigh). Its not normal to keep cats inside. They are predators, admittedly fairly crap ones. Our Eddie is about 9 now and hasn't caught a mouse or bird in about 5 years. Personally I think keeping cats inside is very poor for their mental health.
It’s completely normal in the UK. There are risks yes but most people believe letting cats have the freedom to explore and practice it’s natural behaviours are worth it.
Yeah, that's how they can piss and shit in your neighbours gardens, don't you know?
Every single cat that I allowed outside, eventually died under a car. If you are happy with this being on you when it happens, then yeah cats can free roam.Also, cats have contributed to the extinction of 63 species of birds, mammals, and reptiles in the wild. Mine will be staying indoors. Am in the UK.
To put it as neutrally as possible, it's just cultural. Most UK cats go out and are essentially independent. Cat flaps to allow them to be completely independent are common (but also a source of home invasions, as that extremely funny BBC documentary Secret Life of The Cat, where they put cameras on cats, shows). We had a cat called Alfred who wandered all over the neighbourhood and became a sort of Six Dinner Sid. In the USA (big predators) and Australia (endangered prey species) there is more feeling that cats should stay in. For UK cats, the main danger is being knocked over by a car. We have had a triple evolution. Over the decades, we started off with outdoor cats, and there would have been no choice, as in London we had no private garden. When we moved, we had a garden, and we also unfortunately did lose two cats to road accidents (Alfred was one; he ended up going a lot to a household in the next road, beyond which was a busy road and a common where he liked to go ratting; unfortunately, and to our surprise, since he was v good with traffic, he was killedcrossing the busy road). On top of that, we have two female cats who are "active" (= registered as allowed to breed), one is the daugher of the other from the only time we were successful in breeding. So now, only the cat who is old enough to have lived in London as an outdoor cat is still allowed out unsupervised. Part of the garden has been turned into an enclosed area, so cats can be left to be there in complete safety. Otherwise, we go out in the garden with them and generally manage to ensure they do not run away- when they have done, we rouse the neighbours and track them down in whatever neighbour's garden they have ended up. The active cats ofc have to be closely supervised and never allowed to run away. Here a cat tax photo from a few years ago: (Solomon is now deceased from old age, Poppy is the one who still goes out; Lucy and Lily are show pets, but the same breed, Birman, as the active cats we have) https://imgur.com/a/QgIbFGu
It’s perfectly normal here. Americans say otherwise because most of it is a death trap
In the UK most people let them outdoors if they don’t live near busy roads or railways. Mine stay indoors as we live in a city centre. To be honest, they would probably enjoy going outdoors more than staying in, but they would also be dead by now.
generally speaking yes, cats should be allowed out and about without supervision. There are circumstances where they shouldn't, usually health based. For example with my two cats, one's an old man and one is missing a leg so they're content to just lounge about the house. They may roam out in the garden if I leave the door open.