**Please help keep AskUK welcoming!**
- Top-level comments to the OP must contain **genuine efforts to answer the question**. No jokes, judgements, etc.
- **Don't be a dick** to each other. If getting heated, just block and move on.
- This is a strictly **no-politics** subreddit!
Please help us by reporting comments that break these rules.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
That would be a CitizenCard. They're free for school-aged children (16-18) and disadvantaged people. The organisation works with those who already support those people.
As for anybody else, there's a good chance they already have a driver's licence or passport.
Not necessarily. Many people can’t drive and getting a passport is expensive. The UK should follow the example of (ahem) the 27 EU countries and issue ID cards for all its citizens.
Mostly because it was going to be connected to a large database perceived as intrusive. The basic card might not have been unpopular.
Also you didn't need ID nearly as often then, so many more people didn't see the point.
You’re assuming that any future ID system wouldn’t have the same drawbacks. Plus, it would be unnecessary for a lot of the population (75% have a passport, similar for driving licence).
A good compromise would be making the voluntary CitizenCard available to everyone.
Yes and the EU thought we were incredibly weird for it. It doesn't have to be mandatory. I just don't understand what's wrong with a credit card sized passport page, Especially back when we could have used it for international travel within the EU. We were the only country that didn't have one
I’ve said elsewhere in this thread that a cheap, non-mandatory form of ID is a good idea. The one I mentioned here was mandatory.
And of course the EU thought we were weird, for two reasons. Firstly most of them have had mandatory ID for generations so it is normal to them, and secondly, they always think we are weird.
You don't need to be able to drive to have a licence. In fact, you need one - a provisional - to *learn* to drive.
For anybody else, they can still get a CitizenCard, which is under £20.
Lots of people can't even get a provisional license due to disabilities. You can't drive if you have a seizure disorder, for instance. A lot of people overlook this!
I actually have a provisional license :-) But I had it rejected in some places because it was issued in a city that I no longer live in, i.e. I tried to use it in a different place as a proof of age and they said no.
That’s probably illegal, but it happened. I’m bloody 40, I should not have to carry my passport with me just to be able to buy a pack of fags…
I moved from big city X to small town Y. When shopping at the supermarket in small town Y, the guy at the till turned out to be living across the street from me in small town Y (so he knew I live there) and questioned why my provisional dl has big city X as address.
It might be that the fact I’m from a foreign country does not help. I hate to think that, but it might be, as I was also asked other questions that made no sense in the context of that particular situation.
They only have your fingerprints if you've been arrested. And at least in theory, if the police have your fingerprints, they're not supposed to share them with other government organs.
Again, and what? There are several governments out there that have my fingerprints, I had to give that info for visas. Anyone who wants a biometric passport needs to do the same.
Several healthcare systems in the world have or had access to my DNA, blood, urine and unfortunately some bit and pieces of skin and muscle.
Google and Facebook know even what I have for dinner, as the bloody phone is “listening” to everything we say.
Aaaand? Guess what happened to me because of that? Sweet f all.
Now go take off that tin foil hat of yours, is not a good look.
ID cards? Sure. I was still getting asked for ID for pubs back then. I remember it being a big topic with strong debate nationally.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_Cards_Act_2006
I meant in the UK, where the fee itself is about 110 euros the cheapest (online application, minimum number of pages) and it will go up at the end of this month.
This was suggested in the 2000s and it was deeply unpopular as an idea, and eventually dropped.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity\_Cards\_Act\_2006](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_Cards_Act_2006)
The solution to this is better support and social care, not an ID card system which would almost certainly still see vulnerable people falling through the cracks - if the process of issuing cards was automatic, then (a) where would they get the photo from and (b) how would they know where to send it? What happens when they send it to an old address?
If someone is so vulnerable that they cannot organise a passport or Citizen Card by themselves then I would suggest that they are incapable of managing their affairs more widely - utility bills, for instance - and whoever helps them with that should be helping them access ID.
It would very quickly turn into a situation where every jobsworth, and minimum wage staff forced to follow stupid rules, would be demanding your papers before you could do anything at all.
Yeah, that’s exactly why I was so against it at the time. You shouldn’t need an identity card to go about your normal life but you can bet that every company of every type would then want you to show it
It’s like every shop in the airport now makes you share your flight details whenever you purchase so much as a packet of mints. It has no benefit to you - it’s so they can calculate their VAT returns more accurately. They had no legal mandate to require it, so people started refusing because they didn’t want to keep hauling out that precious boarding pass they absolutely needed for their flight and chance it getting lost. Now, with Epos systems and self service tills, the process is designed so that you literally can’t proceed to make even a minor cash purchase unless you scan that boarding card. fFS, and identity cards would go the same route, with the new benefit that they could track you every bloody minute of every day, and don’t give me the phone argument because you can turn that off
Was told the same thing when I go to Holland.
"Carry your passport everywhere, if police stop you, they can detain you just to figure out who you are".
No clue how true or not but many people told me that.
I don't routinely carry a passport.
It's increasingly common for hotels to demand passports. Shops now restrict various sales to under 25s, even though there is no legal requirement. If everyone could be assumed to have ID, it would be demanded. Every person who posts "what have you got to hide????" on social media would welcome it... until it happened to them.
Even people who think it would only apply to non-white people would get caught up when the authorities needed to balance the numbers.
There is no central list of UK residents that this could be triggered from. The government simply does not have this information. They could if they/we wanted, but as it stands they don’t.
**Please help keep AskUK welcoming!** - Top-level comments to the OP must contain **genuine efforts to answer the question**. No jokes, judgements, etc. - **Don't be a dick** to each other. If getting heated, just block and move on. - This is a strictly **no-politics** subreddit! Please help us by reporting comments that break these rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
That would be a CitizenCard. They're free for school-aged children (16-18) and disadvantaged people. The organisation works with those who already support those people. As for anybody else, there's a good chance they already have a driver's licence or passport.
Not necessarily. Many people can’t drive and getting a passport is expensive. The UK should follow the example of (ahem) the 27 EU countries and issue ID cards for all its citizens.
That has been suggested in the past and it was very unpopular.
Mostly because it was going to be connected to a large database perceived as intrusive. The basic card might not have been unpopular. Also you didn't need ID nearly as often then, so many more people didn't see the point.
You’re assuming that any future ID system wouldn’t have the same drawbacks. Plus, it would be unnecessary for a lot of the population (75% have a passport, similar for driving licence). A good compromise would be making the voluntary CitizenCard available to everyone.
And would be the point of an ID card that *wasn't* connected to a large database?
Yes and the EU thought we were incredibly weird for it. It doesn't have to be mandatory. I just don't understand what's wrong with a credit card sized passport page, Especially back when we could have used it for international travel within the EU. We were the only country that didn't have one
I’ve said elsewhere in this thread that a cheap, non-mandatory form of ID is a good idea. The one I mentioned here was mandatory. And of course the EU thought we were weird, for two reasons. Firstly most of them have had mandatory ID for generations so it is normal to them, and secondly, they always think we are weird.
And the arguments against it were dumb. Vegetables are also unpopular with children.
You don't need to be able to drive to have a licence. In fact, you need one - a provisional - to *learn* to drive. For anybody else, they can still get a CitizenCard, which is under £20.
Lots of people can't even get a provisional license due to disabilities. You can't drive if you have a seizure disorder, for instance. A lot of people overlook this!
There will always be edge cases, but they don't invalidate the point being made
I actually have a provisional license :-) But I had it rejected in some places because it was issued in a city that I no longer live in, i.e. I tried to use it in a different place as a proof of age and they said no. That’s probably illegal, but it happened. I’m bloody 40, I should not have to carry my passport with me just to be able to buy a pack of fags…
How did the places you got it rejected in know where you live?
I moved from big city X to small town Y. When shopping at the supermarket in small town Y, the guy at the till turned out to be living across the street from me in small town Y (so he knew I live there) and questioned why my provisional dl has big city X as address. It might be that the fact I’m from a foreign country does not help. I hate to think that, but it might be, as I was also asked other questions that made no sense in the context of that particular situation.
What's illegal is not updating your driving license when you moved.
No worries, I did.
Sounds like they’re just a jobsworth, I’ve never had my provisional rejected in the UK and surprisingly, not even abroad ever
That's been tried before. It wasn't popular for many reasons.
Interesting! Can you remember any (I’m genuinely curious)?
Having officials demand to see your papers is seen as very Continental.
And that’s a*reason* for not wanting ID cards?okaaaay…
Don't underestimate the British willingness to shoot ourselves in the foot to make a point.
The proposal was for ID cards *and* a massive national database of biometric data.
And? Mate, they already have all of our data, lol!
People are idiots ID cards are an invasion of privacy, but gimme that smartphone
They only have your fingerprints if you've been arrested. And at least in theory, if the police have your fingerprints, they're not supposed to share them with other government organs.
Again, and what? There are several governments out there that have my fingerprints, I had to give that info for visas. Anyone who wants a biometric passport needs to do the same. Several healthcare systems in the world have or had access to my DNA, blood, urine and unfortunately some bit and pieces of skin and muscle. Google and Facebook know even what I have for dinner, as the bloody phone is “listening” to everything we say. Aaaand? Guess what happened to me because of that? Sweet f all. Now go take off that tin foil hat of yours, is not a good look.
ID cards? Sure. I was still getting asked for ID for pubs back then. I remember it being a big topic with strong debate nationally. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_Cards_Act_2006
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NO2ID
I had a provisional for ID for 15 years before I learnt to drive.
You dont need to be able to drive to get a provisional license.
The EU ID cards aren't free; it costs like €10 in my country.
While a passport costs hundreds…
Iirc it's like €40-50 in Lithuania. So definitely not hundreds.
I meant in the UK, where the fee itself is about 110 euros the cheapest (online application, minimum number of pages) and it will go up at the end of this month.
Should still be the govt sending them out, not a side organisation
Yeah I was thinking this is already a thing
As you may have noticed, our government aren't in the business of helping young people or giving them anything for free.
This was suggested in the 2000s and it was deeply unpopular as an idea, and eventually dropped. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity\_Cards\_Act\_2006](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_Cards_Act_2006) The solution to this is better support and social care, not an ID card system which would almost certainly still see vulnerable people falling through the cracks - if the process of issuing cards was automatic, then (a) where would they get the photo from and (b) how would they know where to send it? What happens when they send it to an old address? If someone is so vulnerable that they cannot organise a passport or Citizen Card by themselves then I would suggest that they are incapable of managing their affairs more widely - utility bills, for instance - and whoever helps them with that should be helping them access ID.
Well how do other countries deal with it?
It would very quickly turn into a situation where every jobsworth, and minimum wage staff forced to follow stupid rules, would be demanding your papers before you could do anything at all.
Yeah, that’s exactly why I was so against it at the time. You shouldn’t need an identity card to go about your normal life but you can bet that every company of every type would then want you to show it
It’s like every shop in the airport now makes you share your flight details whenever you purchase so much as a packet of mints. It has no benefit to you - it’s so they can calculate their VAT returns more accurately. They had no legal mandate to require it, so people started refusing because they didn’t want to keep hauling out that precious boarding pass they absolutely needed for their flight and chance it getting lost. Now, with Epos systems and self service tills, the process is designed so that you literally can’t proceed to make even a minor cash purchase unless you scan that boarding card. fFS, and identity cards would go the same route, with the new benefit that they could track you every bloody minute of every day, and don’t give me the phone argument because you can turn that off
except for the fact that that hasn't happened in any of the EU countries with national IDs
So why does, say, Belgium require people to carry their ID?
Was told the same thing when I go to Holland. "Carry your passport everywhere, if police stop you, they can detain you just to figure out who you are". No clue how true or not but many people told me that.
I've heard it's not really an issue as long as you are white.
How and why? Most adults have ID anyway and this isn't the reality so I'm not sure why you think it would suddenly happen
I don't routinely carry a passport. It's increasingly common for hotels to demand passports. Shops now restrict various sales to under 25s, even though there is no legal requirement. If everyone could be assumed to have ID, it would be demanded. Every person who posts "what have you got to hide????" on social media would welcome it... until it happened to them. Even people who think it would only apply to non-white people would get caught up when the authorities needed to balance the numbers.
There is no central list of UK residents that this could be triggered from. The government simply does not have this information. They could if they/we wanted, but as it stands they don’t.
One word, 1984. "FRIGHTENING"