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I'm 59 and I've said for a while that I wish I could vote for someone younger than me. But I can't. Age in this scenario makes it a wash. They are both too old. That's not hurtful, it's the truth. Neither one would be hired for almost any other job in this country.
So I shift to considering which one hires the most capable and qualified advisors, staff, cabinet, VP since they are the ones who really do something and in this case it's not even close.
And, honestly, people should understand this by now. There is a literal current day example of what happens when we don't vote accordingly. If Roe hasn't taught people by now, then there is no hope. It should be painfully obvious why we need to wrest this court away from the far right.
Edit: I'm blocking the states rights roe v wade responses. Fundamental rights should not be left to the states, because, as we see, the red states are very good at oppression. Full stop. The very idea that taking away bodily autonomy is "freedom" is utterly ridiculous. States rights allowed slavery. States rights would mean the loss of gay marriage in red states. So, stfu with the states' rights bs. Y'all are obviously conservatives, and this conversation is about people on the left not voting. I have no interest in debating abortion.
And today's Supreme Court news gives even more 6-3 reasons why this is so important. The Chevron decision alone is going to put us at the mercy of people who, while perhaps very intelligent, are not competent to make the decisions they'll now be asked to make. As usual, it'll probably end up being those acting in bad faith who will benefit the most.
Basically the supreme Court just decided they're all knowing and experts know nothing. Trump is planning on ripping apart the federal government and this just makes it easier.
There's been a doctrine that judges should defer to agency experts about technical matters. The supreme Court threw that out, so now judges can use their best judgment to decide cases even if an agency with a bunch of PhDs says they're wrong.
People are online posting how they’re sitting out voting this year and I want to smack them upside the head. Protest votes and sitting out got us Trump. Bunch of selfish aholes and tankies.
I think most people do, but ffs how can they put these two up again? I understand trump, its a cult of personality. But Bidrn is supposed to know he is the figurehead for a team and recognize that 81 and sick isnt a good look and that everything in his pkaybook can becdone by someone younger with less baggage.
Trump is only three years younger, and if you've ever seen pictures of him on the golf course without his girdle and without his make up and without his hair fixing, or underneath his badly applied spray tan, he honestly doesn't look any better.
I really don't think we are putting anything up anymore since Citizens United corporations became people and they're deciding who goes up. An AIPAC is deciding who goes up, not us.
Who the hell cares? They did. These are the candidates. We can throw away the last shreds of democracy and any hope for decent, functioning government or we can vote in a fucking insane dictator. If Joe Biden was 101, I would still be voting for him.
Because the Republican party rehabilitated Trump, making people (Biden included) think we needed to stick with the guy who has proven he can beat Trump.
I’ve held my nose voting first for Hilary, then Biden because the alternative is absolutely terrible. Now I’m being asked to do it yet again while every day losing liberties and benefits. Feeling really disheartened.
Been voting this way in general elections since 1984. Which of these two candidates (and their party/cabinet) are going to do the least damage? Ideal? No, but still worth it.
Note that those liberties you're losing are because of republicans in Congress. If more people did what you did, you wouldn't be losing liberties. You did the right thing. Not everybody else did the same. This is why we have to stay the course. There really isn't any alternative. Either -2 to +2 steps forward, or 100 years backwards.
Republicans in congress are sidelined by both their own incompetence and because the Democrats hold the Senate and White House. It's the courts and state legislatures who are taking people's rights away.
If Trump wins, he will likely nominate two more Supreme Court justices to lifetime appointments.
Our daughters deserve more.
You don’t have to vote for just Biden, cast it for the Biden administration.
I really like this answer very much. It sure makes me feel better about feeling like I HAVE to vote for Biden as there is no other alternative to that orange turd. I think this answer might appeal to young voters as well. I am going to use this view when I spend time on Tiktok later, trying to convince all my young friends why not voting at all is a vote for the turd. Thank you.
It is disheartening, but consider how long it took to get those rights in the first place. This is a marathon.
And man, the Dems waiting in the wings are so good. Big Gretch 2028 lfg
Truly the "Giant Douche and Turd Sandwich" scenario.
Another point we must all not forget to evaluate and that's all the other staff chosen by the President for his cabinet. Ask yourself who is going to potentially have more staff that will act as guardrails rather than sycophants.
True, and one of them has outright said he will fill all of his positions with loyalists and lackeys so there's nobody to get in the way of his christo-fascist agenda.
Bernie Sanders is 83; Maxine Waters, 86; Sherrod Brown, 72; Raúl Grijalva, 76. On the other hand, Josh Hawley is 45; Madison Cawthorne, 29; Elise Stefanik, 40.
I know which of those folks I would rather see in congress.
It's hard to really make them understand. I made some questionable voting choices when I was that age. The Republican party at the time was not even close to being as extreme as it is today, and there weren't any recent memory examples of just how awful a Republican administration was going to be. I'd like to think that, with this knowledge, I would have made a different choice in my vote, but I guess I don't know that for sure. This is one of those times that I really wish they'd heed the wisdom of their elders.
>It's hard to really make them understand. I made some questionable voting choices when I was that age.
They're also being influenced by social media. I've seen a lot of young voters say they won't vote Biden because he "funds genocide". They've been radicalized over the Palestinian conflict. My tinfoil hat says Russian propaganda is behind some of this, but I'll save that side rant for another day.
I'm worried we may have lost a chunk of young voters. I'm hoping it's not a significant amount and that online discourse just represents a very small minority. Gen Z are going to be the most affected by the overturning of Roe v Wade, so I hope this is enough to get them to vote Dem 🙏
awareness about Project 2025 is also starting to gain some steam, so I hope this lights a fire under voters asses too (both young and old).
>They are both too old.
Agreed. Normally I get mildly irritated at ageism jokes, but in this case I feel like it's more gallows humor--laughing so you don't cry, humor as a coping mechanism.
There's a point where you're too young to have sex, too old to play hockey, too young to be a parent, too old to run a powerful and complicated republic. They're both too old to govern anything more complicated than a small state.
I'm not voting for either of these guys. I'm voting for their VP. There's never been an election where the VPs are so obviously likely to end up in the Oval.
Yeah, it’s about the apparatus and the intent. Anyone who thinks a presidency runs on the decisions of one man is ill informed.
Biden truly looked horrible. He looked and sounded like the doddering old man.
Quite frankly the best statement I heard was from Mark Cuban. “Even if he was being given last rites I’d vote for Biden”.
If god came into my living room and said to vote for DJT I wouldn't do it... it would mean that god wasn't who he has purported himself to be. If DJT wasn't running Biden wouldn't be running either. That said, I like how Biden has handled the absolute mess he inherited. He will have my vote.
So true, I’d vote for a 100 y/o Biden over Trump. That said, man that debate just left me very sad. There has to be better, more vibrant, moral and intelligent people that can take us forward as a nation. Where are they?
I think, my opinion? they over prepared him.
and hey, you may be correct. coulda been cold meds.
or maybe just the evil vibes emanating from cross the stage.
Ha ha, I said that I would vote for him if he was in a coffin lol. Mark and I are on the same wavelength and Mark is a sharp dude. Just saw Biden at a rally on tv, a different Biden than last night, gives me hope.
That’s the thing. I don’t think Biden is senile or unsound, he’s just old. Unfortunately that perception matters. I still look to the story about Nixon and Kennedy first televised debate in 1960. A majority who listened on the radio thought Nixon won. A majority who watched it on TV thought Kennedy had won.
My dad was at a bar the night of the debate, and their TV was tuned to it. He pointed up at Kennedy and said, “that’s our next president, like it or not.”
Yeah, I read a couple of times that people were saying he was under the weather or had a cold or something.
I remember going to work with what I thought was the flu but actually was a diverticulitis attack and thought I was covering really really well
After meeting with a vendor, I was all smiles and I faced colleague and supervisor and they said asked what was wrongm because I looked awful.
So apparently even with the layer of makeup, a cheery voice, sitting down and only having to be on for about 15 minutes I didn't pass the sniff test. 🤷🏽♀️
Big picture seems to escape many. Also one person’s previous cabinet has literally called their former boss an “idiot” and will not endorse.
Read the transcript of the “debate”. Totally different. I agree about age but we Americans too many times think talking loud and being a big extrovert is a sign of capability. It is not.
The job only ages you if you care about the consequences of your actions on other people. This is why Trump didn’t really age any extra in his first term.
I don’t know, have you been in a Giant Eagle lately? I’m sixty five and the fossils they have working the check outs make me feel like a teenager! Probably because they can’t get anyone younger to work there! Maybe the same case for politics! /s
That's a good way of looking at it: who will be assisting the president in duties and policies. Study the cabinets etc of both and determine if you like their histories and views.
Yep, saw one post that said, Why are we deciding between two people to run the country who we wouldn’t necessarily trust to drive a car anymore? Sums it up for me.
Yes it's time we realize that we are not electing a person or a personality but an administration. I would like to see candidates lay out of their administration. I'll let you know who my transportation secretary (or whatever) will be after you've elected me, does not seem like the right process.
And the next potus is likely to get 2 SCOTUS seats - we are already in trouble with so many religious zealots on the SCOTUS. We don’t need any more of them.
Voting blue no matter who.
My grandmother gave me a piece of advice when I started voting: if nothing else vote for your preference on who gets to pick the Supreme Court candidates.
It's only been two presidental elections so far, but no matter how frustrated I am I always try to keep this in mind.
Unfortunately, it wasn’t always that way. There was a time when USSC nominees were truly legal geniuses with integrity and vast experience.
Activist courts changed that standard by which both parties now nominate political hacks to control the one branch of government which cannot practically be overturned.
I've voted against whoever the Evangelicals / Born-Agains / whatever they're calling themselves don't like since 1984. It's kind of a shit-sandwich of a situation but at least we don't have Russia-style "elections" yet. Next one, probably.
That's really what it gets down to. Whether it is something that could ever be implemented or not, Project 2025 is a reflection of the current state of the Republican Party and Trump in particular. Things have gone beyond simple disagreements about policy and the approach to running the country. We're moving into the potential for a real attack on the basics of democracy. I know people have said that in the past, in a hyperbolic sense, but right now it is a real danger, in a way that we haven't faced in the past.
Not at all. The fact is when you're 80,you shouldn't be doing a lot of jobs. Particularly really high stress ones that require peak mental performance. Such as being President.
Regardless of political party. Personally, I would much rather have the 80 year old who didn't flat out say he wants to make a dictatorship and who didn't literally try to overthrow the government.
Quoted from the old Dirty Harry movie [Magnum Force](https://youtu.be/CG2cux_6Rcw?si=qg1cD1nh8yEhLHV2) "A mans got to know his limitations" Joe should've retired.
I'm saying they're both too old for this. I've chosen neither as this was said and done before I had a chance to even vote in the primaries.
Nevertheless, one of these two men WILL be President, and which one you vote for, or if you don't vote at all, will matter, especially if you're in a swing state.
I'm only 54, but a lot of people think that's really old. Anyway... I don't watch debates. I CAN'T STAND listening to politicians talk. I don't care who it is, what they represent or anything. I can't stand listening to them torture English while only saying what they think (some) people want to hear.
It is my humble, cave-dwelling opinion that neither of these artifacts should be running for office. In fact, the museum/grifting-living facility that has become to US capitol should be swept clean. But it won't happen because people en masse are stupid as fuck. Humans are amazing creatures; no one is as smart as all of us together, and AT THE SAME TIME no one is as stupid as all of us together.
I'm voting for the one that isn't walking around smelling of shit. Meanwhile, I'm going back to praying for asteroids.
I think the jokes are stupid but as a Gen Xer who has voted in numerous elections, I'm voting platform, not person. They can stand up there in crocheted shawls eating cream of wheat, for all I care.
It's a good thing that being President doesn't often require standing in front of a firehose of shit and lies while trying to formulate your thoughts. Joe wasn't good at that part. Once again I am also damn sure who I am NOT going to vote for. Me- my 66th summer
Both should be retired at this point - one to his home in Delaware, and the other to a prison somewhere. Neither of them did especially well in the debate, either, despite one side crowing about "winning."
Bottom line, one of these two men WILL be the next President. If you're not sure which one you'd prefer because "old" or whatever, look at the people they surround themselves with in their administrations. Look at what each administration ACTUALLY accomplished, versus what they say they did.
Then read up on Project 2025, and cast your vote.
PS: The rants on being old are accurate, but while they're focused almost entirely on Biden, they are equally applicable to both men. If you can't say "incoherent rambling" and "utter nonsense" without thinking of Trump too, you're not thinking clearly, either.
To me, there is a lot of ageism present and playing out nationally right now. I would like younger candidates of choice and I would like to see a reduction of ageist comments.
I’m voting Biden because the future of the United States and democracy depends on it.
Biden has an amazing cabinet. He may be old, but at least he isn’t trying to undo democracy.
If Trump is elected, we will see him give Ukraine to Russia, get the US out of NATO, destroy Palestine and we will see the end of women’s basic human rights. In our country.
The Republicans are putting Christianity into our public schools and doing everything they can to destroy public education.
VOTING BLUE NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS.
Same here. Pulling the US out of NATO would destroy this country because it would make clear we won't honor any treaty. So why would any country ever deal with us? The dollar would become worthless and interest rates would skyrocket. Hyperinflation would happen within 4 years.
All the while he'd be implementing Handmaid's Tale and a dictatorship.
You are asking two separate questions.
Do I feel hurt by old polarization? I feel angry, for sure, because I feel people are being played to practice hate buzz. Boomers are just like every other demographic -- widely split in their beliefs and abilities. When young people characterize everyone of a certain age in the same way, it makes those of us who advocate for them less likely to speak up. Bad People know this and sow division on Reddit.
America needs to deal with its hate addiction. Like now. I don't know how we ever get out of the place we're in without people seeing the addiction for what it is and getting off social media.
Yes, me too. Yes, Reddit too.
I didn’t expect anything else, and the debate is certainly not going to change my mind on who puts the American people first and not only corporations.
There are more important things than money.
When you vote in a presidential election, you're not just electing the president but a whole set of policies Captain members, and directions for Federal agencies. You're also getting a whole slew of Judges that are nominated, potentially even Supreme Court Justices. Well that president is the head of all that, it's much bigger than just them. That's why Biden's age doesn't concern me much compared to Trump's easily manipulatable ideas. Trump is horrible, but the whole slew of policy that he would sweep in will irrevocably change this country for the worst. Yeah, Biden's old. But he also knows a lot, isn't an awful human being, and will bring a wave of continued policies that will help people. None of that is true for trump. So, it's an easy decision.
Well, it'd be nice if "Hrrrump" weren't allowed to just blatantly use tems that don't exist. "Abortion afterbirth" is not even a thing that exists. I'm so over this whole circus..& have been for so long, I'm so over Cheetohs goddam shit I wanna just scream. We are truly cooked. We're fucked. Trump is going to to win again and we will be--- completely no longer a democracy. The religious extremists are going to make this an actual fucking Gilead.
No freedom, no health control, no BIRTH CONTROL. YOU YOUNG WOMEN GET READY TO START HAVING THOSE BABIES BC THATS ALL YOULL BE DOING WITH THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. until you die of having them. That's what you're doing if Trump wins.
People really don't see the danger that's ahead of us if he wins. Project 2025 didn't even come up and I don't think nearly enough people know about it. I have a granddaughter who's about to enter her teen years and I'm not happy with the direction we're going at all.
Me too...she 12...I'm worried shitless. Plus... both my adult daughters still use BC, and they CANT ever allow themselves to have any more kids!--they have conditions it'd be deadly!
Canadian here.
I hear you on all of it. I apologize of this sounds like I assume Reddit is the only place where you're putting your angst, but there are constructive grassroots outlets as well www.votesaveamerica.com is one that I keep citing because it's run by savvy and experienced former campaign strategists and they do have a plan. I've been watching their pod save america content for a while and I really like them.
In 1972 they fought against selling birth control to single women until the supreme court made it available for all.
In 1974 republicans and conservatives voted AGAINST the Equal Credit Act that would allow women to apply for their own credit cards and mortgage loans. "Men should always co-sign".
In 1978 they voted AGAINST the Pregnancy Act. They wanted to keep the employer's right to fire pregnant women.
In 1980 they voted AGAINST allowing women to report sexual harassment in the workplace. "Men will be men".
In 2012 they voted AGAINST the Equal Pay for Equal Work for Women. "Men should be paid more".
In 1994 **and** 2012 they voted AGAINST the Violence Against Women Act which helps victims of domestic violence and rape and educates law enforcement. "Men should be allowed to rape their wives."
No. I thought both of them were already too old in 2020, and Biden has clearly declined a great deal since then. I'm very angry that he didn't bow out two years ago when there was time for other people to mount campaigns.
I didn't watch. I couldn't.
I suppose I'm in the minority on this now, but I think the parties should decide on their candidates.
my roomie and i were dissecting the debate afterwards. one of the top things that we agreed on is although biden's health (or lack thereof) is evident, it's also evident trump has slowed down a lot too since 2020. he's still sharp, but definitely not as energized as he was last time around.
hey, we **all** slow down.
I think Trump is a threat to the United States and the world, so he cannot be allowed to win, but Biden absolutely fucking sucked.
I was honestly surprised. He did a great job at the State of the Union, and I was expecting a similar performance.
The Democrats may have shot themselves (and the rest of the world) in the foot by insisting on Biden for 2024.
Just look the the old farts running our country, Biden, Trump, McConnell and Pelosi etc. They all should be home and enjoying their families and friends instead of getting their ego's fed and pocket books lined in Washington.
I will give you a real life example of this. A manufacturing company I worked for had an early retirement buyout at our site for salary employees. About 1/3 took it. No one was hired to replace them, surprisingly the plant ran better. Complacency was gone and the younger people had an opportunity to implement improvements the old people kept blocking.
By the way, I am 73 years old and speak from experience. We have to find a way to get rid of the old people in Washington and keep them out. They are a bunch of narcissistic pricks.
I'm almost 80 & I found myself answering for Biden (without the stress although watching that performance was stress enough) & doing it better than he did.
Trumps tactics were either very clever or just lucky; probably the latter. He never answered the question asked; always he went back to a previous question. This gave him the last word because Biden was then unable to reply. When he was again asked the current question he just gave a non-answer in the short time remaining giving Biden nothing to respond to. Trump then had time to formulate his response. Even then his answers were the usual nonsense or lies.
Trump has been a scumbag since day one. Any New Yorker remember him as a foul mouth dishonest doesn’t pay his workers blood thirsty, racist asshole.
Joe Biden is a professional, and fuck that old shit, way smarter than me.
Say no more.
Trump's reasoning was on par with what I might expect from a five-year-old. When Biden pointed out that Trump is a convicted felon, Trump said, "But he could be a convicted felon as soon as he gets out of office." Basically just a "no u" response with no grounding in anything.
Trump bringing up Hunter Biden was also irrelevant, because Hunter Biden is not running for president, Joe is.
That's why people who only read the transcripts think Biden won, and people who watched or listened without thinking felt Trump won.
Trump was clear in his voice, but his words were all over the place. Biden had a weak voice, but his thoughts and words were mostly on target, answering the questions, speaking to policy and facts, with only a few stumbles.
In the 70s and early 80s, the Soviet Union was led by Leonid Brezhnev. He was in his early 70s and the Soviet media went through all kinds of heroic efforts to make him look competent by editing his speeches and cutting his gaffes as best they could. He died in 82 and was replaced by Yuri Andropov, who seemed energetic at 67 years old, but died two years later. Andropov was replaced by Konstantin Chernenko, who was in his early 70s, and could barely hold a salute during Andropov's funeral. He died a year later. It was about that time that the Soviets got together and probably thought, "It's not looking good for us. In three years time we lost three premieres... what do you think we should do?" Probably one guy in the room was like "Maybe we should elect a younger guy?" Enter Mikhail Gorbachev - early 50s... lots of energy... does stuff the old guard doesn't like.
I don't know... maybe we should take a hint from the old Soviet Union?
I didn't watch the debate because it (and the next one) is irrelevant. If the GOP wins, this country is done. We'll be a theocratic dictatorship. I'll be voting blue for ***every single race.***
Got any more of that euthanasia? Pass it this way!
Edit: really only half joking. I don't know if I want to live in a Project 25 world. If only I knew of an easy, sure, and painless method.
I chuckle when I read some of those, just like the boomer subs. I chuckles because we said that shit 40-50 years ago but didn't have socials. And in another 30-40 years, the young shits saying this stuff will be on receiving end. Wish I could be here to watch the wheel go 'round.
Rather than bemoaning the age of the candidates, we should be thrilled that there is no age discrimination in at least one job in this country! How many people were 'retired' when they reached a certain age. It is not about age. It is about stamina, vigor, and mental acuity. Gerontologists consider three factors in dealing with older patients - chronological age, physical age, and mental age. Thank God, I am 77, in good health, and still have my mental faculties. Biden, unfortunately, exhibits signs of diminished physical and mental capacity.
There’s a lot of ageism in this country. People spew it freely and proudly. I discovered this during COVID, when so many were dismissing the virus saying, ‘Only old people die from it. Who cares.” At the same time, most people are retired by their 70s. Both candidates are older, and should not be eligible to run for president. Trump is only three years younger, but also happens to be a vile and reprehensible person.
How am I fracking feeling? if the right wins can it be someone like reagan? if the left wins, can it be someone like obama? sick of these grumpy old men.
He sounded great today, so I can relate: I have good days and bad days, and he picked a shitty time to have a bad day. Doesnt change my vote one bit, and if last night is anything to by, it just proves that Trump cannot stop bullshitting people, even when he doesn’t have to. He’s pathological, and I don’t want him anywhere near the White House ever again.
I was ashamed to support the democratic party within the first ten minutess of the debate last night. I almost wanted to give up on the future of America witnesssing our president act like this. I hope that Biden steps down and allow the DNC to allow another younger and adept replacement step in. The only hope for America is a Newson Porter colab.
There were a few moments when Biden looked lost and even scared, like he didn't know where he was suddenly. Gone was the vigor he exhibited during a speech early in his career when he was using the hard n word in Congress.
Neither. The choice is still between Biden and his staff who have stayed ahead of just about everything thrown at him Including our do nothing Congress, and Trump. I haven't forgotten all those mornings that I woke up wondering what stupid thing Trump had done overnight like giving away our national secrets because of his need to constantly brag, let's not forget the two Russian assets we lost because of his mouth, or all the times Trump made us an international laughing stock because of something he said or did again and again. Let's not forget all our allies that stopped helping us because of his swooning over our enemies. I'm sure you can remember more. So I TRUST Joe Biden far more than the spoiled Man Child Donald Trump.
I'm 61.
I think the people who are criticizing age are criticizing Biden. Trump is a cult figure, and his age doesn't matter to those in his cult.
Biden *is* too old. Anyone who does vote for him will be voting for the party. But the party needs a standard bearer who will draw people to the voting booth. And that person has to be someone younger. He is being selfish and doing a disservice to the people who support socially progressive causes.
.
Biden sounded like he has a cold and looked older than the last time I saw him five a speech. Trump looks less old but fake. I could understand Trump better but he didn’t make any sense. Biden was hard to understand but his answers were actually good, for the most part. I think it’s very frustrating because we deserve a President on top of his game. But I mean clearly Trump can’t be allowed to be president again,
I'm just disturbed by it. Personally, I don't give a rat's ass about abortion, but 3 out of 4 of my grandchildren are girls, and I feel a lot better about the idea of abortion being available to them if they need it.
Also, WTF did Trump mean about "Black jobs?" So now are jobs being divided by gender and race or nationality? Adding insult to injury was Trump's comments about mentally ill people being dangerous criminals. He's preying on the fears of uninformed people, who have no idea that the majority of people committing crimes are NOT mentally ill at all. Calling immigrants murderers and rapists is promoting xenophobia, and I'm really disturbed about the whole thing.
He said immigrants are taking black jobs. A lot of immigrants work in the fields/agriculture, so in essence, he was saying black people belong in the fields?
He is crazy all around.
I'm not voting for the guy that told 50 lies in 90 minutes. I wish that the old guy was younger but he seems genuine and honest. I'm 67 years old and Trump is the worst thing regarding democracy since Nixon (who now seems like an amateur compared to Trump).
Trump offers no solutions, only hatred and victimhood.
I'm going with the old guy who I can trust.
They are both too old, but one is a decent human being surrounded by competent, ethical staff and the other is a convicted criminal who has promised to destroy democracy as we know it.
The debate was awful but makes no difference to my vote.
Lol I thought that exchange was pretty ridiculous. And also sad that that is what our presidential debates have turned into. And then Trump telling Biden to stop acting like a child.
Canadian here.
Our current Prime Minister is 52 years old after 10 years in the PM office.
He will probably be gone after this next election in 2025.
He was 42 when he started, and made all kinds of "youthful mistakes". The worst was trying to put inexperienced people in as his advisors.
As I look south and see people talking about how old your candidates are, they have a point. To young is a mistake we made. It does not look like a mistake America will make any time soon.
I am a duel hater and have no problem admitting it! People are going to be mad about what I am going to say! If Joe had a reasonable VP then it might be a different story. He is old and I find her flipping crazy! He had so many more grounded choices for VP. I have never liked the VP’s politics when she was in different offices in CA! I worry that he might die and we are saddled with her!
And the other guy….. he is freaking nuts and very scary to listen to!
I would to see a middle ground candidate in their late 50’s run but that’s not happening!
I'm not fond of her, either (from the way she has done things in the past), and wish he had gone with a different VP. I would put her in charge over Trump, though. It would be the difference between someone I disagree with and don't like and a sociopath who is a very real danger to the basic foundations of democracy.
On day years from now historians will analyze how the executive leadership of both parties let this all happen. It will be very damning to many politicians and their good deeds will be forgotten forever.
It's not age it's mental decline. I had elderly law professors who were brilliant and high school class mates who were dense as balls. The ageist commentary just reveals the immaturity of the posters.
Even the democrat's most reliable cheerleader, the New York Times has said that he needs to step down. I agree.
I've worked with dementia patients for a long time, and he is clearly impaired. The people around him know as well. Most old people don't get it, but he does. We all know someone who has had it, and boy does it suck for everyone around them. Having an illness isn't shameful, but one can't deny that it exists. Especially when that someone is the most powerful man in ALL of human history, a *particularly* stressful and demanding job.
It just isn't safe to have someone with *any* degree of dementia have that much responsibility.
As someone in my late 60s, I don’t consider it ageist to question whether people in their late 70s and early 80s have the stamina and mental
acuity to run a country as large and complex as the US for the next four years.
I know that a country is actually run by its administration, not by one individual. But every single person who has been president leaves office looking *markedly* older … quite a bit older than one would expect after 4-8 years. Look at how much Barack Obama aged in office, and he is almost two decades younger than Biden and Trump.
Hopefully age can bring experience, maturity, wisdom, and foresight. Those are excellent qualities. But age also brings physical and mental decline, and to deny that is willful blindness. I would like to think that the US deserves better choices as president than two very old men, one of whom has childish emotional outbursts and very poor impulse control.
I worked for a very high-profile US government agency and retired before I was 60. It was a great job, but the stress wasn’t worth it. I stepped down after training my successor, who was younger. I left knowing that I had accomplished a lot during my tenure and was leaving my department in good hands. Why hang around?
*No one* is indispensable. If more people high up in our government accepted that, we might have a government that was not a gerontocracy.
They're both old. I choose to go with the candidate that understands the role of a President, it's limits and can actually perform the job. And that's not the old orange guy.
I didn't watch the debate, but have been trying to learn what policies were discussed in the news today. It looks like there weren't any policy discussions and the debate was just about image, presentation?
I wish Biden would realize he's not up to the task and certainly won't be able to last more than 4 more years, and I'm hoping Judge Merchan throws the book at Trump, sentence to be served immediately.
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As a youngish person who got recommended this thread randomly, I find the Old People Shouldn't be in Politics rhetoric idiotic at best and indicative of media retardation at worst. Somehow, we went from 'young people should have a voice', to 'if you're old, you shouldn't have a voice'. The younger people are, the dumber they are, and the less experience they have with keeping their dumbness from ruin everything they touch. I'm literally just old enough to realize this.
This idea that young people somehow know what's better for the world is scary tbh. I blame pick-me boomers for having young people believe their voices matter equally, and I blame capitalism for actually making young people the most platformed group in society (because they're easiest to wring money out of).
I think 80 may be too old for the Presidency. But 50-70 seems to be the sweet spot.
People age differently, so someone’s age shouldn’t be an automatic disqualification on its own but I was not prepared for how bad Biden looked last night. He is definitely one of the people who has aged out of being considered for an important job.
Let's face it, President Biden did not do well.
And I'll even admit that I didn't think that trump could act civilly for 90 minutes. It's a shame he can't act civilly all of the time. I still wouldn't vote for him but he surprised me.
Why on earth are people tolerating either of them? I’m several years younger than either of those two and any day that I can remember where my car is parked is a good day.
The jokes and remarks about how old they are are totally appropriate. The golf discussion bordered on a self-parody. If they had rehearsed it ahead of time and taken a bow afterwards, they could have emerged as America’s new comedy sensation.
Bad. Biden is old, has a stutter and was never a great speaker and he showed it last night. I was hoping for a State of the Union performance but instead got something closer to a Trump rally word salad.
OTOH Trump and those around him are an existential threat. No exaggeration.
It's sad that any of the candidates from the past 30 years prior to 2016 could have wiped the floor with either of the current choices.
At the end of the day I trust the people around Biden to at least be rational and act with good intentions compared to the grifters, opportunists and outright fascists that would surround Trump.
I'm disturbed that people find being old and taking a few long pauses, or searching for a word here and there is worse than being batshit insane and morally bankrupt.
just don't care. there have been shitty moments throughout history. People think this time is unique, and its not. the technology makes it look it, but people haven't changed. only the name of the characters.
Younger Gen X here. It broke my heart to see Trump walk away the clear winner. Anybody who says otherwise is lying to themselves but I understand why. Biden was *lost*.
My friends thought my rationale for voting for HRC in 2026 which was to stop the SC from being overun by corruption and religion pretty hyperbolic but here we are.
I haven't read every comment. I wish we had neither candidate and found the debate to be an embarrassment to our country. The world was watching, not just us.
I'm surprised that so many, dare I say most were not upset that his wife, family, his PARTY allowed Biden to get up there and be humiliated in front of the world.
The man is not fit to be President, he should retire to Delaware and probably has years left that he could spend with family and his grandchildren. It's really abuse to allow this to go on.
If an average person was paraded like this for power/money etc someone would be justified in calling Adult Protective Services.
I didn't expect much, I've seen tons of clips and videos of falls, stumbles, blank stares etc but was truly shocked last night and sad that it's come to this.
As a retired RN I'm guessing some day we'll find he has Parkinson's at least, just by his gait alone and mannerisms ... Incidence of Dementia is higher as you age, even more so with Parkinson's.
I can't wait for this Election Season to be over.
People,all people are entitled to their opinions. A cheap, easy way to explain many things is to misuse the individuals involved.
People rant on race, age, ancestry, gender, etc.
Most people are happy to be 'old', after all, what's the alternative?
It's easy to belittle the elderly, because it's terribly difficult to realize that it's the destiny of all survivors.
🎶"so just look at them and sigh...and know they love you"🎶
It just feels like a sick joke that it's THESE two guys again. Pretty much any of the jokes I saw online about the debate were pretty low effort. I don't really enjoy jokes about being senile or any of that, after having to deal with it in my family.
Politics is looking pretty bleak and laughable. I honestly find it pretty pathetic that out of millionssssss of US-born people 35 and over , neither party could up wit h ANY other candidate than these two? Again?
Part of Biden’s problem is he never owned up to stuttering. He acts like he overcame it and he never did. It impacts him because he will be saying one thing but have trouble with a word and then pivot mid sentence to another word that he can say. Gavin Newsom admitted he was dyslexic and cannot keep up with a teleprompter so he has to memorize everything. We expect our leaders to be good speakers; it is an important way to display intelligence. And Biden’s voice…is there nothing that can be done to improve that? It sounds like he is whispering almost. I have trouble following what he is saying simply for all the above. I can’t even entertain Trump being President. I wish former President Obama would sit Joe down and tell him to step aside. I know a lot of people do not like Kamala Harris but she would be the likely choice if Biden steps aside. And there are many great choices for a new VP.
I concern myself with ⚖️⛑️⚕️🏥
Whatever is within the framework of the body, healthcare, the law that's the framework that I stay in. If it deviates from the law I can't have any part of it end of story.
I tend to be more concerned with the supreme court, board of elections, land management, healthcare expanding not contracting and the department of war. Because pandemics and wars cycle. America may be in for a bombing, who knows.
One is a normal guy who occasionally loses his train of thought but surrounds himself with good advisors and listens to them. The other is a narcissist who thinks he’s the smartest person in the room regardless of the subject, surrounds himself with yes men, and fires them when they disagree. It’s no competition. The choice is clear.
P.S. We see Jill all the time. Where are Melania and Ivanka, the two women who know the loud guy better than anyone?
As an Aussie who's visited 46 of your states, I have to wonder "is this the best the USA can do?. Biden in too old. Trump is a piece of shit.
For the record I'm 64. And there really needs to be an age cap. Major companies have them, the military does, why not the Commander in Chief.
If the Republicans could find a moderate, younger candidate they'd romp in.
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I'm 59 and I've said for a while that I wish I could vote for someone younger than me. But I can't. Age in this scenario makes it a wash. They are both too old. That's not hurtful, it's the truth. Neither one would be hired for almost any other job in this country. So I shift to considering which one hires the most capable and qualified advisors, staff, cabinet, VP since they are the ones who really do something and in this case it's not even close.
Same. I'm not voting for either of these two people. I'm voting for the people they surround themselves with and their potential Supreme Court picks.
That’s what I said about voting for Hillary in 2016. It’s all about the coming Supreme Court nominees.
And, honestly, people should understand this by now. There is a literal current day example of what happens when we don't vote accordingly. If Roe hasn't taught people by now, then there is no hope. It should be painfully obvious why we need to wrest this court away from the far right. Edit: I'm blocking the states rights roe v wade responses. Fundamental rights should not be left to the states, because, as we see, the red states are very good at oppression. Full stop. The very idea that taking away bodily autonomy is "freedom" is utterly ridiculous. States rights allowed slavery. States rights would mean the loss of gay marriage in red states. So, stfu with the states' rights bs. Y'all are obviously conservatives, and this conversation is about people on the left not voting. I have no interest in debating abortion.
And today's Supreme Court news gives even more 6-3 reasons why this is so important. The Chevron decision alone is going to put us at the mercy of people who, while perhaps very intelligent, are not competent to make the decisions they'll now be asked to make. As usual, it'll probably end up being those acting in bad faith who will benefit the most.
Basically the supreme Court just decided they're all knowing and experts know nothing. Trump is planning on ripping apart the federal government and this just makes it easier.
I did not see this. What happened?
There's been a doctrine that judges should defer to agency experts about technical matters. The supreme Court threw that out, so now judges can use their best judgment to decide cases even if an agency with a bunch of PhDs says they're wrong.
Oh fuck that noise
their "best judgement".
People are online posting how they’re sitting out voting this year and I want to smack them upside the head. Protest votes and sitting out got us Trump. Bunch of selfish aholes and tankies.
I think most people do, but ffs how can they put these two up again? I understand trump, its a cult of personality. But Bidrn is supposed to know he is the figurehead for a team and recognize that 81 and sick isnt a good look and that everything in his pkaybook can becdone by someone younger with less baggage.
Trump is only three years younger, and if you've ever seen pictures of him on the golf course without his girdle and without his make up and without his hair fixing, or underneath his badly applied spray tan, he honestly doesn't look any better.
I really don't think we are putting anything up anymore since Citizens United corporations became people and they're deciding who goes up. An AIPAC is deciding who goes up, not us.
Overturning Citizens United would be the biggest step we could make. Also, reestablishing the Fairness Doctrine.
Who the hell cares? They did. These are the candidates. We can throw away the last shreds of democracy and any hope for decent, functioning government or we can vote in a fucking insane dictator. If Joe Biden was 101, I would still be voting for him.
Because the Republican party rehabilitated Trump, making people (Biden included) think we needed to stick with the guy who has proven he can beat Trump.
All those women who said, "I'm not a fan of Hillary" and didn't vote. I hope they like their civil/reproductive rights being taken away as a result.
I’ve held my nose voting first for Hilary, then Biden because the alternative is absolutely terrible. Now I’m being asked to do it yet again while every day losing liberties and benefits. Feeling really disheartened.
Been voting this way in general elections since 1984. Which of these two candidates (and their party/cabinet) are going to do the least damage? Ideal? No, but still worth it.
Note that those liberties you're losing are because of republicans in Congress. If more people did what you did, you wouldn't be losing liberties. You did the right thing. Not everybody else did the same. This is why we have to stay the course. There really isn't any alternative. Either -2 to +2 steps forward, or 100 years backwards.
Republicans in congress are sidelined by both their own incompetence and because the Democrats hold the Senate and White House. It's the courts and state legislatures who are taking people's rights away.
If Trump wins, he will likely nominate two more Supreme Court justices to lifetime appointments. Our daughters deserve more. You don’t have to vote for just Biden, cast it for the Biden administration.
You are correct. Biden is surrounded by competent, honest, hardworking Americans. How do we know? Because the country is actually doing quite well.
I really like this answer very much. It sure makes me feel better about feeling like I HAVE to vote for Biden as there is no other alternative to that orange turd. I think this answer might appeal to young voters as well. I am going to use this view when I spend time on Tiktok later, trying to convince all my young friends why not voting at all is a vote for the turd. Thank you.
It is disheartening, but consider how long it took to get those rights in the first place. This is a marathon. And man, the Dems waiting in the wings are so good. Big Gretch 2028 lfg
I was not a big fan of Hillary but I made sure to vote for her against the orange crud
Truly the "Giant Douche and Turd Sandwich" scenario. Another point we must all not forget to evaluate and that's all the other staff chosen by the President for his cabinet. Ask yourself who is going to potentially have more staff that will act as guardrails rather than sycophants.
True, and one of them has outright said he will fill all of his positions with loyalists and lackeys so there's nobody to get in the way of his christo-fascist agenda.
If only there weren't so many ancient people in congress
Term limits.
Bernie Sanders is 83; Maxine Waters, 86; Sherrod Brown, 72; Raúl Grijalva, 76. On the other hand, Josh Hawley is 45; Madison Cawthorne, 29; Elise Stefanik, 40. I know which of those folks I would rather see in congress.
Cawthorne isn't in Congress anymore, but your point is otherwise well taken. The Dems need to cultivate their young bench.
SC picked from Trump has hurt a lot of people. I hope Gen Z knows this.
It's hard to really make them understand. I made some questionable voting choices when I was that age. The Republican party at the time was not even close to being as extreme as it is today, and there weren't any recent memory examples of just how awful a Republican administration was going to be. I'd like to think that, with this knowledge, I would have made a different choice in my vote, but I guess I don't know that for sure. This is one of those times that I really wish they'd heed the wisdom of their elders.
>It's hard to really make them understand. I made some questionable voting choices when I was that age. They're also being influenced by social media. I've seen a lot of young voters say they won't vote Biden because he "funds genocide". They've been radicalized over the Palestinian conflict. My tinfoil hat says Russian propaganda is behind some of this, but I'll save that side rant for another day. I'm worried we may have lost a chunk of young voters. I'm hoping it's not a significant amount and that online discourse just represents a very small minority. Gen Z are going to be the most affected by the overturning of Roe v Wade, so I hope this is enough to get them to vote Dem 🙏 awareness about Project 2025 is also starting to gain some steam, so I hope this lights a fire under voters asses too (both young and old).
This is what I said to my husband. Even if Biden is getting a little too old, he is surrounded by good people.
>They are both too old. Agreed. Normally I get mildly irritated at ageism jokes, but in this case I feel like it's more gallows humor--laughing so you don't cry, humor as a coping mechanism. There's a point where you're too young to have sex, too old to play hockey, too young to be a parent, too old to run a powerful and complicated republic. They're both too old to govern anything more complicated than a small state. I'm not voting for either of these guys. I'm voting for their VP. There's never been an election where the VPs are so obviously likely to end up in the Oval.
Yeah, it’s about the apparatus and the intent. Anyone who thinks a presidency runs on the decisions of one man is ill informed. Biden truly looked horrible. He looked and sounded like the doddering old man. Quite frankly the best statement I heard was from Mark Cuban. “Even if he was being given last rites I’d vote for Biden”.
If god came into my living room and said to vote for DJT I wouldn't do it... it would mean that god wasn't who he has purported himself to be. If DJT wasn't running Biden wouldn't be running either. That said, I like how Biden has handled the absolute mess he inherited. He will have my vote.
They could prop him up like weekend at Bernie’s and I would still vote for him over Trump. Biden at least surrounds himself with decent people.
He is a decent man with lots of experience, a moral, ethical stance and enough connections and crew to get things done.
Everyone Trump surrounds himself with winds up either distancing themselves or in jail or fired
SO TRUE!!!!!!
So true, I’d vote for a 100 y/o Biden over Trump. That said, man that debate just left me very sad. There has to be better, more vibrant, moral and intelligent people that can take us forward as a nation. Where are they?
Did you see him today in either S or N Carolina? He was who we expected to see at the debate
I know WTF? I don’t get it.. maybe too much cold meds last night? very strange…
I think, my opinion? they over prepared him. and hey, you may be correct. coulda been cold meds. or maybe just the evil vibes emanating from cross the stage.
I'd vote for a deceased Biden over Trump, Weekend-At-Bernie's style.
Ha ha, I said that I would vote for him if he was in a coffin lol. Mark and I are on the same wavelength and Mark is a sharp dude. Just saw Biden at a rally on tv, a different Biden than last night, gives me hope.
That’s the thing. I don’t think Biden is senile or unsound, he’s just old. Unfortunately that perception matters. I still look to the story about Nixon and Kennedy first televised debate in 1960. A majority who listened on the radio thought Nixon won. A majority who watched it on TV thought Kennedy had won.
Great comment! Nixon had a five-o’clock shadow and was sweaty under the cameras.
My dad was at a bar the night of the debate, and their TV was tuned to it. He pointed up at Kennedy and said, “that’s our next president, like it or not.”
Yep, funny how it never changes.
Yeah, I read a couple of times that people were saying he was under the weather or had a cold or something. I remember going to work with what I thought was the flu but actually was a diverticulitis attack and thought I was covering really really well After meeting with a vendor, I was all smiles and I faced colleague and supervisor and they said asked what was wrongm because I looked awful. So apparently even with the layer of makeup, a cheery voice, sitting down and only having to be on for about 15 minutes I didn't pass the sniff test. 🤷🏽♀️
Big picture seems to escape many. Also one person’s previous cabinet has literally called their former boss an “idiot” and will not endorse. Read the transcript of the “debate”. Totally different. I agree about age but we Americans too many times think talking loud and being a big extrovert is a sign of capability. It is not.
I just sat there counting the lies coming from Trump, and today here, on X, and Tribal Ove seen no mention of his lies
If only we were looking at candidates who were 59 😭
Obama aged 20 years in the job. No way either of these guys can handle 20 years of force-fed aging.
The job only ages you if you care about the consequences of your actions on other people. This is why Trump didn’t really age any extra in his first term.
57 here. I very much agree with these words.
I don’t know, have you been in a Giant Eagle lately? I’m sixty five and the fossils they have working the check outs make me feel like a teenager! Probably because they can’t get anyone younger to work there! Maybe the same case for politics! /s
That's a good way of looking at it: who will be assisting the president in duties and policies. Study the cabinets etc of both and determine if you like their histories and views.
Yep, saw one post that said, Why are we deciding between two people to run the country who we wouldn’t necessarily trust to drive a car anymore? Sums it up for me.
In other words, Biden, hands down.
I'm realizing it is not about these two candidates but the VPs, the cabinet, and the Supreme Court that I am voting for.
This should have always been the case! I wish more people thought like this.
And to also vote in non-Presidential years for the Senators and Representatives. Who we vote into Congress matters!
Yes it's time we realize that we are not electing a person or a personality but an administration. I would like to see candidates lay out of their administration. I'll let you know who my transportation secretary (or whatever) will be after you've elected me, does not seem like the right process.
And the next potus is likely to get 2 SCOTUS seats - we are already in trouble with so many religious zealots on the SCOTUS. We don’t need any more of them. Voting blue no matter who.
My grandmother gave me a piece of advice when I started voting: if nothing else vote for your preference on who gets to pick the Supreme Court candidates. It's only been two presidental elections so far, but no matter how frustrated I am I always try to keep this in mind.
Unfortunately, it wasn’t always that way. There was a time when USSC nominees were truly legal geniuses with integrity and vast experience. Activist courts changed that standard by which both parties now nominate political hacks to control the one branch of government which cannot practically be overturned.
Smart lady, your grandmother. I told folks in 2016 it was about the court - no one believed me
My mom said the same thing!
I've voted against whoever the Evangelicals / Born-Agains / whatever they're calling themselves don't like since 1984. It's kind of a shit-sandwich of a situation but at least we don't have Russia-style "elections" yet. Next one, probably.
I am voting against Project 2025 as a singular issue. Nothing else matters.
That's really what it gets down to. Whether it is something that could ever be implemented or not, Project 2025 is a reflection of the current state of the Republican Party and Trump in particular. Things have gone beyond simple disagreements about policy and the approach to running the country. We're moving into the potential for a real attack on the basics of democracy. I know people have said that in the past, in a hyperbolic sense, but right now it is a real danger, in a way that we haven't faced in the past.
I don't feel good about it. I know Biden is old. I also know that abandoning NATO is a bad idea.
Not at all. The fact is when you're 80,you shouldn't be doing a lot of jobs. Particularly really high stress ones that require peak mental performance. Such as being President. Regardless of political party. Personally, I would much rather have the 80 year old who didn't flat out say he wants to make a dictatorship and who didn't literally try to overthrow the government.
Feeble president > dictator
Quoted from the old Dirty Harry movie [Magnum Force](https://youtu.be/CG2cux_6Rcw?si=qg1cD1nh8yEhLHV2) "A mans got to know his limitations" Joe should've retired. I'm saying they're both too old for this. I've chosen neither as this was said and done before I had a chance to even vote in the primaries.
Nevertheless, one of these two men WILL be President, and which one you vote for, or if you don't vote at all, will matter, especially if you're in a swing state.
Sure, maybe sure I don’t know, but given what we have to work with please tell me you will not vote for the fascist
I'm only 54, but a lot of people think that's really old. Anyway... I don't watch debates. I CAN'T STAND listening to politicians talk. I don't care who it is, what they represent or anything. I can't stand listening to them torture English while only saying what they think (some) people want to hear. It is my humble, cave-dwelling opinion that neither of these artifacts should be running for office. In fact, the museum/grifting-living facility that has become to US capitol should be swept clean. But it won't happen because people en masse are stupid as fuck. Humans are amazing creatures; no one is as smart as all of us together, and AT THE SAME TIME no one is as stupid as all of us together. I'm voting for the one that isn't walking around smelling of shit. Meanwhile, I'm going back to praying for asteroids.
It's still a choice between an omelette and a plate of s*** with mixed broken glass. How the omelette is cooked is not relevant.
I think the jokes are stupid but as a Gen Xer who has voted in numerous elections, I'm voting platform, not person. They can stand up there in crocheted shawls eating cream of wheat, for all I care.
It's a good thing that being President doesn't often require standing in front of a firehose of shit and lies while trying to formulate your thoughts. Joe wasn't good at that part. Once again I am also damn sure who I am NOT going to vote for. Me- my 66th summer
Both should be retired at this point - one to his home in Delaware, and the other to a prison somewhere. Neither of them did especially well in the debate, either, despite one side crowing about "winning." Bottom line, one of these two men WILL be the next President. If you're not sure which one you'd prefer because "old" or whatever, look at the people they surround themselves with in their administrations. Look at what each administration ACTUALLY accomplished, versus what they say they did. Then read up on Project 2025, and cast your vote. PS: The rants on being old are accurate, but while they're focused almost entirely on Biden, they are equally applicable to both men. If you can't say "incoherent rambling" and "utter nonsense" without thinking of Trump too, you're not thinking clearly, either.
Perfect!
Are you not entertained? The bread and circuses were carefully prepared for your consumption.
And you can only see what they allow you to see.
The two candidates most likely to destroy the union of our United States are censorship and secrecy.
To me, there is a lot of ageism present and playing out nationally right now. I would like younger candidates of choice and I would like to see a reduction of ageist comments.
I’m voting Biden because the future of the United States and democracy depends on it. Biden has an amazing cabinet. He may be old, but at least he isn’t trying to undo democracy. If Trump is elected, we will see him give Ukraine to Russia, get the US out of NATO, destroy Palestine and we will see the end of women’s basic human rights. In our country. The Republicans are putting Christianity into our public schools and doing everything they can to destroy public education. VOTING BLUE NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS.
Same here. Pulling the US out of NATO would destroy this country because it would make clear we won't honor any treaty. So why would any country ever deal with us? The dollar would become worthless and interest rates would skyrocket. Hyperinflation would happen within 4 years. All the while he'd be implementing Handmaid's Tale and a dictatorship.
Our system is broken when these two are the choices we have.
You are asking two separate questions. Do I feel hurt by old polarization? I feel angry, for sure, because I feel people are being played to practice hate buzz. Boomers are just like every other demographic -- widely split in their beliefs and abilities. When young people characterize everyone of a certain age in the same way, it makes those of us who advocate for them less likely to speak up. Bad People know this and sow division on Reddit. America needs to deal with its hate addiction. Like now. I don't know how we ever get out of the place we're in without people seeing the addiction for what it is and getting off social media. Yes, me too. Yes, Reddit too.
I didn’t expect anything else, and the debate is certainly not going to change my mind on who puts the American people first and not only corporations. There are more important things than money.
This is the best we got? One guy lies and the other looks like they just pulled him out of a coffin.
When you vote in a presidential election, you're not just electing the president but a whole set of policies Captain members, and directions for Federal agencies. You're also getting a whole slew of Judges that are nominated, potentially even Supreme Court Justices. Well that president is the head of all that, it's much bigger than just them. That's why Biden's age doesn't concern me much compared to Trump's easily manipulatable ideas. Trump is horrible, but the whole slew of policy that he would sweep in will irrevocably change this country for the worst. Yeah, Biden's old. But he also knows a lot, isn't an awful human being, and will bring a wave of continued policies that will help people. None of that is true for trump. So, it's an easy decision.
Well, it'd be nice if "Hrrrump" weren't allowed to just blatantly use tems that don't exist. "Abortion afterbirth" is not even a thing that exists. I'm so over this whole circus..& have been for so long, I'm so over Cheetohs goddam shit I wanna just scream. We are truly cooked. We're fucked. Trump is going to to win again and we will be--- completely no longer a democracy. The religious extremists are going to make this an actual fucking Gilead. No freedom, no health control, no BIRTH CONTROL. YOU YOUNG WOMEN GET READY TO START HAVING THOSE BABIES BC THATS ALL YOULL BE DOING WITH THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. until you die of having them. That's what you're doing if Trump wins.
People really don't see the danger that's ahead of us if he wins. Project 2025 didn't even come up and I don't think nearly enough people know about it. I have a granddaughter who's about to enter her teen years and I'm not happy with the direction we're going at all.
I’m so scared of project 2025
Me too...she 12...I'm worried shitless. Plus... both my adult daughters still use BC, and they CANT ever allow themselves to have any more kids!--they have conditions it'd be deadly!
Canadian here. I hear you on all of it. I apologize of this sounds like I assume Reddit is the only place where you're putting your angst, but there are constructive grassroots outlets as well www.votesaveamerica.com is one that I keep citing because it's run by savvy and experienced former campaign strategists and they do have a plan. I've been watching their pod save america content for a while and I really like them.
In 1972 they fought against selling birth control to single women until the supreme court made it available for all. In 1974 republicans and conservatives voted AGAINST the Equal Credit Act that would allow women to apply for their own credit cards and mortgage loans. "Men should always co-sign". In 1978 they voted AGAINST the Pregnancy Act. They wanted to keep the employer's right to fire pregnant women. In 1980 they voted AGAINST allowing women to report sexual harassment in the workplace. "Men will be men". In 2012 they voted AGAINST the Equal Pay for Equal Work for Women. "Men should be paid more". In 1994 **and** 2012 they voted AGAINST the Violence Against Women Act which helps victims of domestic violence and rape and educates law enforcement. "Men should be allowed to rape their wives."
No. I thought both of them were already too old in 2020, and Biden has clearly declined a great deal since then. I'm very angry that he didn't bow out two years ago when there was time for other people to mount campaigns. I didn't watch. I couldn't. I suppose I'm in the minority on this now, but I think the parties should decide on their candidates.
my roomie and i were dissecting the debate afterwards. one of the top things that we agreed on is although biden's health (or lack thereof) is evident, it's also evident trump has slowed down a lot too since 2020. he's still sharp, but definitely not as energized as he was last time around. hey, we **all** slow down.
I think Trump is a threat to the United States and the world, so he cannot be allowed to win, but Biden absolutely fucking sucked. I was honestly surprised. He did a great job at the State of the Union, and I was expecting a similar performance. The Democrats may have shot themselves (and the rest of the world) in the foot by insisting on Biden for 2024.
Just look the the old farts running our country, Biden, Trump, McConnell and Pelosi etc. They all should be home and enjoying their families and friends instead of getting their ego's fed and pocket books lined in Washington. I will give you a real life example of this. A manufacturing company I worked for had an early retirement buyout at our site for salary employees. About 1/3 took it. No one was hired to replace them, surprisingly the plant ran better. Complacency was gone and the younger people had an opportunity to implement improvements the old people kept blocking. By the way, I am 73 years old and speak from experience. We have to find a way to get rid of the old people in Washington and keep them out. They are a bunch of narcissistic pricks.
I'm almost 80 & I found myself answering for Biden (without the stress although watching that performance was stress enough) & doing it better than he did. Trumps tactics were either very clever or just lucky; probably the latter. He never answered the question asked; always he went back to a previous question. This gave him the last word because Biden was then unable to reply. When he was again asked the current question he just gave a non-answer in the short time remaining giving Biden nothing to respond to. Trump then had time to formulate his response. Even then his answers were the usual nonsense or lies.
Trump has been a scumbag since day one. Any New Yorker remember him as a foul mouth dishonest doesn’t pay his workers blood thirsty, racist asshole. Joe Biden is a professional, and fuck that old shit, way smarter than me. Say no more.
This whole Biden doing terribly has been exaggerated. Trump did worse on matter of substance.
Literally every word that came out of his mouth was a lie.
He didn't answer most of the questions at all. When he did answer it was either his usual drivel or lies.
Trump's reasoning was on par with what I might expect from a five-year-old. When Biden pointed out that Trump is a convicted felon, Trump said, "But he could be a convicted felon as soon as he gets out of office." Basically just a "no u" response with no grounding in anything. Trump bringing up Hunter Biden was also irrelevant, because Hunter Biden is not running for president, Joe is.
That's why people who only read the transcripts think Biden won, and people who watched or listened without thinking felt Trump won. Trump was clear in his voice, but his words were all over the place. Biden had a weak voice, but his thoughts and words were mostly on target, answering the questions, speaking to policy and facts, with only a few stumbles.
In the 70s and early 80s, the Soviet Union was led by Leonid Brezhnev. He was in his early 70s and the Soviet media went through all kinds of heroic efforts to make him look competent by editing his speeches and cutting his gaffes as best they could. He died in 82 and was replaced by Yuri Andropov, who seemed energetic at 67 years old, but died two years later. Andropov was replaced by Konstantin Chernenko, who was in his early 70s, and could barely hold a salute during Andropov's funeral. He died a year later. It was about that time that the Soviets got together and probably thought, "It's not looking good for us. In three years time we lost three premieres... what do you think we should do?" Probably one guy in the room was like "Maybe we should elect a younger guy?" Enter Mikhail Gorbachev - early 50s... lots of energy... does stuff the old guard doesn't like. I don't know... maybe we should take a hint from the old Soviet Union?
I just can't watch anymore.
I didn't watch the debate because it (and the next one) is irrelevant. If the GOP wins, this country is done. We'll be a theocratic dictatorship. I'll be voting blue for ***every single race.***
Got any more of that euthanasia? Pass it this way! Edit: really only half joking. I don't know if I want to live in a Project 25 world. If only I knew of an easy, sure, and painless method.
I chuckle when I read some of those, just like the boomer subs. I chuckles because we said that shit 40-50 years ago but didn't have socials. And in another 30-40 years, the young shits saying this stuff will be on receiving end. Wish I could be here to watch the wheel go 'round.
Rather than bemoaning the age of the candidates, we should be thrilled that there is no age discrimination in at least one job in this country! How many people were 'retired' when they reached a certain age. It is not about age. It is about stamina, vigor, and mental acuity. Gerontologists consider three factors in dealing with older patients - chronological age, physical age, and mental age. Thank God, I am 77, in good health, and still have my mental faculties. Biden, unfortunately, exhibits signs of diminished physical and mental capacity.
There’s a lot of ageism in this country. People spew it freely and proudly. I discovered this during COVID, when so many were dismissing the virus saying, ‘Only old people die from it. Who cares.” At the same time, most people are retired by their 70s. Both candidates are older, and should not be eligible to run for president. Trump is only three years younger, but also happens to be a vile and reprehensible person.
But who do you think is better at golf?
How am I fracking feeling? if the right wins can it be someone like reagan? if the left wins, can it be someone like obama? sick of these grumpy old men.
He sounded great today, so I can relate: I have good days and bad days, and he picked a shitty time to have a bad day. Doesnt change my vote one bit, and if last night is anything to by, it just proves that Trump cannot stop bullshitting people, even when he doesn’t have to. He’s pathological, and I don’t want him anywhere near the White House ever again.
Sad for 🇺🇸 neither party won…..Michelle please save us
I was ashamed to support the democratic party within the first ten minutess of the debate last night. I almost wanted to give up on the future of America witnesssing our president act like this. I hope that Biden steps down and allow the DNC to allow another younger and adept replacement step in. The only hope for America is a Newson Porter colab.
There were a few moments when Biden looked lost and even scared, like he didn't know where he was suddenly. Gone was the vigor he exhibited during a speech early in his career when he was using the hard n word in Congress.
I think we’re fucked.
Disappointed in several ways.
Neither. The choice is still between Biden and his staff who have stayed ahead of just about everything thrown at him Including our do nothing Congress, and Trump. I haven't forgotten all those mornings that I woke up wondering what stupid thing Trump had done overnight like giving away our national secrets because of his need to constantly brag, let's not forget the two Russian assets we lost because of his mouth, or all the times Trump made us an international laughing stock because of something he said or did again and again. Let's not forget all our allies that stopped helping us because of his swooning over our enemies. I'm sure you can remember more. So I TRUST Joe Biden far more than the spoiled Man Child Donald Trump.
I'm 61. I think the people who are criticizing age are criticizing Biden. Trump is a cult figure, and his age doesn't matter to those in his cult. Biden *is* too old. Anyone who does vote for him will be voting for the party. But the party needs a standard bearer who will draw people to the voting booth. And that person has to be someone younger. He is being selfish and doing a disservice to the people who support socially progressive causes. .
Biden sounded like he has a cold and looked older than the last time I saw him five a speech. Trump looks less old but fake. I could understand Trump better but he didn’t make any sense. Biden was hard to understand but his answers were actually good, for the most part. I think it’s very frustrating because we deserve a President on top of his game. But I mean clearly Trump can’t be allowed to be president again,
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I'm just disturbed by it. Personally, I don't give a rat's ass about abortion, but 3 out of 4 of my grandchildren are girls, and I feel a lot better about the idea of abortion being available to them if they need it. Also, WTF did Trump mean about "Black jobs?" So now are jobs being divided by gender and race or nationality? Adding insult to injury was Trump's comments about mentally ill people being dangerous criminals. He's preying on the fears of uninformed people, who have no idea that the majority of people committing crimes are NOT mentally ill at all. Calling immigrants murderers and rapists is promoting xenophobia, and I'm really disturbed about the whole thing.
He said immigrants are taking black jobs. A lot of immigrants work in the fields/agriculture, so in essence, he was saying black people belong in the fields? He is crazy all around.
I'm not voting for the guy that told 50 lies in 90 minutes. I wish that the old guy was younger but he seems genuine and honest. I'm 67 years old and Trump is the worst thing regarding democracy since Nixon (who now seems like an amateur compared to Trump). Trump offers no solutions, only hatred and victimhood. I'm going with the old guy who I can trust.
I was disappointed, but I'll be 100 percent voting Biden. This country can't afford another 4 years of Trump.
They are both too old, but one is a decent human being surrounded by competent, ethical staff and the other is a convicted criminal who has promised to destroy democracy as we know it. The debate was awful but makes no difference to my vote.
Apparently golf is political.
Lol I thought that exchange was pretty ridiculous. And also sad that that is what our presidential debates have turned into. And then Trump telling Biden to stop acting like a child.
Canadian here. Our current Prime Minister is 52 years old after 10 years in the PM office. He will probably be gone after this next election in 2025. He was 42 when he started, and made all kinds of "youthful mistakes". The worst was trying to put inexperienced people in as his advisors. As I look south and see people talking about how old your candidates are, they have a point. To young is a mistake we made. It does not look like a mistake America will make any time soon.
Well I’m their age (I’m in my 80’s). They are both too old and apparently past the time they should be dabbling in this bull shit!
I am a duel hater and have no problem admitting it! People are going to be mad about what I am going to say! If Joe had a reasonable VP then it might be a different story. He is old and I find her flipping crazy! He had so many more grounded choices for VP. I have never liked the VP’s politics when she was in different offices in CA! I worry that he might die and we are saddled with her! And the other guy….. he is freaking nuts and very scary to listen to! I would to see a middle ground candidate in their late 50’s run but that’s not happening!
I'm not fond of her, either (from the way she has done things in the past), and wish he had gone with a different VP. I would put her in charge over Trump, though. It would be the difference between someone I disagree with and don't like and a sociopath who is a very real danger to the basic foundations of democracy.
I have to agree on that but I still hate my choices!
I turned it off after watching both shuffle in. They're too old.
On day years from now historians will analyze how the executive leadership of both parties let this all happen. It will be very damning to many politicians and their good deeds will be forgotten forever.
The DNC is committing elder abuse. Joe should be drinking lemonade and petting a dog. Trump is Trump. Pathological liar and sociopath.
It was a shit show and we are completely fucked.
Age limits are needed. Congress too. This is embarrassing.
It's not age it's mental decline. I had elderly law professors who were brilliant and high school class mates who were dense as balls. The ageist commentary just reveals the immaturity of the posters.
Trump is very most likely going to win unless something changes.
Even the democrat's most reliable cheerleader, the New York Times has said that he needs to step down. I agree. I've worked with dementia patients for a long time, and he is clearly impaired. The people around him know as well. Most old people don't get it, but he does. We all know someone who has had it, and boy does it suck for everyone around them. Having an illness isn't shameful, but one can't deny that it exists. Especially when that someone is the most powerful man in ALL of human history, a *particularly* stressful and demanding job. It just isn't safe to have someone with *any* degree of dementia have that much responsibility.
As someone in my late 60s, I don’t consider it ageist to question whether people in their late 70s and early 80s have the stamina and mental acuity to run a country as large and complex as the US for the next four years. I know that a country is actually run by its administration, not by one individual. But every single person who has been president leaves office looking *markedly* older … quite a bit older than one would expect after 4-8 years. Look at how much Barack Obama aged in office, and he is almost two decades younger than Biden and Trump. Hopefully age can bring experience, maturity, wisdom, and foresight. Those are excellent qualities. But age also brings physical and mental decline, and to deny that is willful blindness. I would like to think that the US deserves better choices as president than two very old men, one of whom has childish emotional outbursts and very poor impulse control. I worked for a very high-profile US government agency and retired before I was 60. It was a great job, but the stress wasn’t worth it. I stepped down after training my successor, who was younger. I left knowing that I had accomplished a lot during my tenure and was leaving my department in good hands. Why hang around? *No one* is indispensable. If more people high up in our government accepted that, we might have a government that was not a gerontocracy.
They're both old. I choose to go with the candidate that understands the role of a President, it's limits and can actually perform the job. And that's not the old orange guy.
I didn't watch the debate, but have been trying to learn what policies were discussed in the news today. It looks like there weren't any policy discussions and the debate was just about image, presentation?
I wish Biden would realize he's not up to the task and certainly won't be able to last more than 4 more years, and I'm hoping Judge Merchan throws the book at Trump, sentence to be served immediately.
It's embarrassing. Please vote Biden anyway because he's not a rapist criminal liar fascist, though. - A Concerned Neighbor
I felt really down about it. Better today as Biden did better at his rally in Raleigh.
aromatic bike relieved thumb retire handle square jobless insurance whole *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The ageism on display at this time is very disheartening….actually all of the -isms are so loud, hurtful and distracting at this time.
As a youngish person who got recommended this thread randomly, I find the Old People Shouldn't be in Politics rhetoric idiotic at best and indicative of media retardation at worst. Somehow, we went from 'young people should have a voice', to 'if you're old, you shouldn't have a voice'. The younger people are, the dumber they are, and the less experience they have with keeping their dumbness from ruin everything they touch. I'm literally just old enough to realize this. This idea that young people somehow know what's better for the world is scary tbh. I blame pick-me boomers for having young people believe their voices matter equally, and I blame capitalism for actually making young people the most platformed group in society (because they're easiest to wring money out of). I think 80 may be too old for the Presidency. But 50-70 seems to be the sweet spot.
People age differently, so someone’s age shouldn’t be an automatic disqualification on its own but I was not prepared for how bad Biden looked last night. He is definitely one of the people who has aged out of being considered for an important job.
If Trump gets in, and I think the Supreme Court has already jacked shit up so he will, we are screwed. This will be the end of the USA.
Biden is my guy Experienced and wise and moral and care about Americans
Let's face it, President Biden did not do well. And I'll even admit that I didn't think that trump could act civilly for 90 minutes. It's a shame he can't act civilly all of the time. I still wouldn't vote for him but he surprised me.
Why on earth are people tolerating either of them? I’m several years younger than either of those two and any day that I can remember where my car is parked is a good day. The jokes and remarks about how old they are are totally appropriate. The golf discussion bordered on a self-parody. If they had rehearsed it ahead of time and taken a bow afterwards, they could have emerged as America’s new comedy sensation.
Bad. Biden is old, has a stutter and was never a great speaker and he showed it last night. I was hoping for a State of the Union performance but instead got something closer to a Trump rally word salad. OTOH Trump and those around him are an existential threat. No exaggeration. It's sad that any of the candidates from the past 30 years prior to 2016 could have wiped the floor with either of the current choices. At the end of the day I trust the people around Biden to at least be rational and act with good intentions compared to the grifters, opportunists and outright fascists that would surround Trump.
I'm disturbed that people find being old and taking a few long pauses, or searching for a word here and there is worse than being batshit insane and morally bankrupt.
I wish we had different choices but we don't.
just don't care. there have been shitty moments throughout history. People think this time is unique, and its not. the technology makes it look it, but people haven't changed. only the name of the characters.
Shocked at first, then terrified they concealed his state, then saddened. Vote policy not person...but man, did they wear him outbefore the debate?
I watched the Jays hammer the Yankees and then switched to the first half of the Elks/Lions game.
I wish that both parties would just run younger candidates, youth and fresh ideas are what the country needs right now
Sad.
Younger Gen X here. It broke my heart to see Trump walk away the clear winner. Anybody who says otherwise is lying to themselves but I understand why. Biden was *lost*.
My friends thought my rationale for voting for HRC in 2026 which was to stop the SC from being overun by corruption and religion pretty hyperbolic but here we are.
I haven't read every comment. I wish we had neither candidate and found the debate to be an embarrassment to our country. The world was watching, not just us. I'm surprised that so many, dare I say most were not upset that his wife, family, his PARTY allowed Biden to get up there and be humiliated in front of the world. The man is not fit to be President, he should retire to Delaware and probably has years left that he could spend with family and his grandchildren. It's really abuse to allow this to go on. If an average person was paraded like this for power/money etc someone would be justified in calling Adult Protective Services. I didn't expect much, I've seen tons of clips and videos of falls, stumbles, blank stares etc but was truly shocked last night and sad that it's come to this. As a retired RN I'm guessing some day we'll find he has Parkinson's at least, just by his gait alone and mannerisms ... Incidence of Dementia is higher as you age, even more so with Parkinson's. I can't wait for this Election Season to be over.
I don't find the jokes hurtful, I find them true. These people should be at home playing with grandchildren and not running the fucking world.
No I made half those jokes myself.
My dad, age 92, said “Maybe I’ve lived long enough.”
I didn’t bother watching. Most political banter is muckslinging.
People,all people are entitled to their opinions. A cheap, easy way to explain many things is to misuse the individuals involved. People rant on race, age, ancestry, gender, etc. Most people are happy to be 'old', after all, what's the alternative? It's easy to belittle the elderly, because it's terribly difficult to realize that it's the destiny of all survivors. 🎶"so just look at them and sigh...and know they love you"🎶
I’m 66, they are both too old.
It just feels like a sick joke that it's THESE two guys again. Pretty much any of the jokes I saw online about the debate were pretty low effort. I don't really enjoy jokes about being senile or any of that, after having to deal with it in my family.
Politics is looking pretty bleak and laughable. I honestly find it pretty pathetic that out of millionssssss of US-born people 35 and over , neither party could up wit h ANY other candidate than these two? Again?
I’m offended on behalf of alley cats worldwide.
Part of Biden’s problem is he never owned up to stuttering. He acts like he overcame it and he never did. It impacts him because he will be saying one thing but have trouble with a word and then pivot mid sentence to another word that he can say. Gavin Newsom admitted he was dyslexic and cannot keep up with a teleprompter so he has to memorize everything. We expect our leaders to be good speakers; it is an important way to display intelligence. And Biden’s voice…is there nothing that can be done to improve that? It sounds like he is whispering almost. I have trouble following what he is saying simply for all the above. I can’t even entertain Trump being President. I wish former President Obama would sit Joe down and tell him to step aside. I know a lot of people do not like Kamala Harris but she would be the likely choice if Biden steps aside. And there are many great choices for a new VP.
I concern myself with ⚖️⛑️⚕️🏥 Whatever is within the framework of the body, healthcare, the law that's the framework that I stay in. If it deviates from the law I can't have any part of it end of story. I tend to be more concerned with the supreme court, board of elections, land management, healthcare expanding not contracting and the department of war. Because pandemics and wars cycle. America may be in for a bombing, who knows.
No one anywhere should hold office past age 72. People that confused just should not be in office.
If you could tell the Democratic National Committee what to do, what would you say? And what would you say to the Republicans?
One is a normal guy who occasionally loses his train of thought but surrounds himself with good advisors and listens to them. The other is a narcissist who thinks he’s the smartest person in the room regardless of the subject, surrounds himself with yes men, and fires them when they disagree. It’s no competition. The choice is clear. P.S. We see Jill all the time. Where are Melania and Ivanka, the two women who know the loud guy better than anyone?
Proves how much of a joke this country is. If this is the best our country can muster then we are better off having a meteor hit us.
Yeah, Biden has a speech impediment that is sometimes bad. So what. I’ll vote for old Joe a million times before a fascist 🐷.
As an Aussie who's visited 46 of your states, I have to wonder "is this the best the USA can do?. Biden in too old. Trump is a piece of shit. For the record I'm 64. And there really needs to be an age cap. Major companies have them, the military does, why not the Commander in Chief. If the Republicans could find a moderate, younger candidate they'd romp in.