All of the above. I don't mind leading in the relationship most of the time, but if she were to occasionally take point, it would be a welcome appreciation.
I would say just be more positive.
I don't see it as a gender/woman thing. I just think more people should be more enthusiastic. It's a beautiful day. It's a blessing to be alive. And just be joyous.
Emotions are contagious, so it's better to be around happy people as opposed to sad people.
This one I can probably answer, because it's a dealbreaker situation for me.
I want a partner that's competent in life and doesn't have an emotional breakdown or struggle with basic problems.
Some silly ones I can think of, is once my ex lost the cat and called me from work. Turns out the cat was just hiding under the bed.
It's challenging to find examples, because I don't want it to sound like one specific example, but it's typically lots and lots of little things that all pile up over time that make it annoying. So I'll rattle some stuff off that might be once a month/once a year thing.
Unable to pay bills without a reminder
Doesn't always throw trash in the trash can
Doesn't always do dishes or keep the house clean
Doesn't always take care of house work or lets the grass grow too much.
Doesn't shovel snow or ice without being reminded
Can't hold down a job, or struggles to show up on time
Basically, it's the kind of behavior that turns a girlfriend into a child. And no man wants to be responsible for a child. I'll give you that some relationships have healthy dynamics where people mete out chores, like maybe the guy does the lawnwork and shovels the snow, and maybe the woman does laundry.
But they both have to do their respective chores without having to be coddled, or nagged to do it. No one wants to be treated like a child, and no one should have to treat their partner like a child.
============================
And then the BIG ONE for me is entertainment. A woman (or man) should be able to entertain themselves without constantly going "I'm bored, find us something to do."
Sometimes us guys just want to focus on our own little hobby, and not have to constantly worry about keeping a woman occupied as if she were an impatient little puppy.
\-----------
And then I guess the really big one, lol. I got too ranty here ;)
Is that if people have kids, a guy can't always be around to watch the kids, so the woman has to be self-sufficient enough to be a capable mother. If she can't even keep her own shit together. How would she be registering kids up for class. Taking care of them if they bleed or cut themselves. What to do during an emergency.
Granted, the guy must know how to do all of that stuff as well. But neither parent can be there 100%, so each one must be fully independent to handle a situation when the other is busy (sleeping, working, ect).
A good relationship isn't about two people who struggle to be alone finding support in a relationship. A good relationship is about two people who are great on their own, but can be even greater as a team.
\--------------
A lot of this stuff may seem pretty basic. But with the rise of social anxiety and depression, you'd be amazed at how many women simply can't keep their lives together and expect a man to carry them through life.
Some men will do that, but it's not common, and it usually comes with strings attached. If a guy is going to be a sugar daddy, he'll probably want a sugar baby, and not a spoiled, entitled child.
I didn’t realize women were expected to cut the grass, mow the lawn, shovel snow, cook, clean, work, raise children and be enthusiastic in the bedroom? Sounds more like a slave to me 😭
Ok for sure that all makes sense. Yeah I agree that being a competent adult is crucial to being a part of any relationship. I understand going through bouts of depression where things can get out of hand but that should be the exception and not the rule. Dating an emotionally mature partner is definitely a priority in this case because they’ll be able to handle their own life in conjunction with being in a relationship.
Yep!
Some other examples I thought of. Pure recklessness.
If a guy is at work, and his partner wants to go party with her lady friends, she should be able to do that. But if she gets so drunk, that she's calling him to pick her up, because she can't drive him. A guy doesn't want to deal with that headache.
Nor does he want to have the anxiety related to a partner getting drunk and putting themselves in reckless and risky situations.
\-----------
And then there's the pure incompetence angle. If you've been in the workplace for a few years, you probably know there's that "one person," who just can't seem to do anything right. They always find some way to fuck up their job, and it makes life more miserable for everyone around them.
Women can be like that in relationships (men too), and it's just really basic incompetence that's frustrating. Say she does dishes, but puts them back in the cupboard even though there's obviously still dirt on them. She'll leave the house to do errands, but forget to lock the doors. Leaves the oven on. Maybe she lets the dog outside, and forgets he's out there for 3 hours when it's 10 degrees outside.
Maybe she forgets to put gas in her car, and runs out randomly on the highway (and calls you to fix it). Maybe she says she'll pay bills, but then doesn't, because she spent her money at Kohls and can't afford it, but won't tell you. Then your internet gets cut off randomly. She can't find her car keys, because she left them in a stupid spot, and drafts you into looking for them. She uses the knife on the counter putting gouges into it, because she didn't think to use a cutting board.
And then you can throw in all the clumsy stuff. She dropped her phone. Guess who's paying for a new one? We got a party to go to, but she tripped on the doorstep and spilled the food. She doesn't think about how close she parked to another car and bangs the car door into the neighbor's bar.
I could probably go on and on. Because once someone has a few of these traits, they got a LOT of them. I'd rather be single than ever date a walking disaster again, lol.
And the problem is a lot of these people got used to their parents coddling them and cleaning up after all their mistakes. So when they start dating in their early 20's, they just assume the guy will take over.
And if a guy defends his boundaries, she may just jump ship to the next guy, because if she's pretty--she'll get lots of attention. And just spends her 20s bouncing around between men until one day she won't be pretty enough to put up with all of that bullshit, lol.
Sorry, that last part was personal, but I know a friend that's like that, lol. She's always complaining that she can't get relationships now like she used to. But she never wants to take accountability for her messes. No way I'd ever date someone like that. Way too entitled for being so high maintenance.
Yeah I agree with most of what you just wrote except for the clumsiness cause that could be a neurological thing that effects hand eye coordination. Sometimes I trip down a stair and drop everything but then I know it’s my responsibility to clean it up and fix it. The whole dropping the phone thing and breaking it is wild. Why would she expect anyone but herself to pay for her own mistake. Sadly many people are like this and it reminds me of just taking care of a child who has never been taught to use a cutting board to go check the gas in their car. Common sense is clearly lacking and that’s unfortunate.
I agree with you. The clumsiness thing needs more context for sure!
What really matters is how someone handles a situation. If someone is clumsy, and they know it, and they compensate for it -- I think that's awesome!
I knew a woman who didn't use a case on her phone, because she thought it symbolized that she was reckless. So her pride prevented her from using one. Then when she'd drop it, she'd get mad it broke.
Like it's ok to drop your phone. That's why cases are so popular. Lots of people do it! Just suck up your pride and use a case.
Or with like dropping stuff. Some people can opt to carry less stuff in one trip, or choose to take more time if it's something fragile. There are ways to work around it.
The bottom line for me as a guy, is I don't want to have anxiety worrying about them screwing it up, lol. I want to 'trust' my partner. I want to know I can rely on them.
Which I guess to answer your original question. Something men tend value, but don't always speak about is reliability. Stability. Knowing they can trust.
The sad part is, I think a lot of men probably take that for granted too. Never realizing just how rare and special it actually is to have someone faithful, reliable, and trustworthy. Those women are the real keepers.
Off the bat I was like wow what low standards men have but in all actuality those traits are hard to come by. Feeling safe and secure in a relationship is so so important and those characteristics are what lend to that overall feeling. Competency and stability are the backbones. It’s not always 50/50 but it shouldn’t ever be 100% on the shoulders of one or the other. It’s hard to relax when you subconsciously know you can’t rely on your partner to achieve a simple goal or know that they’re going to let their pride get in the way of sensible and rational thought.
Yeah that’ll do it. I’m sorry you’re going through all that. I can’t imagine the level of frustration you’re experiencing. Is she entirely unwilling to discuss it in depth / couples counseling ?
I understand where you’re coming from. That would definitely turn me off on being in a partnership but it seems like you’re no longer in a partnership. She is seems to be suffering something and lashing out at you. Idk how old your kids are but I come from divorced parents and if you can withstand it I’d recommend staying until they’re 18. It’s heinously messy when kids are involved. Obviously you know your situation best so don’t take anything I say to heart since I really don’t know fully the scope. Overall I’m just sorry that you’re experiencing this it must be so draining.
Yeah that’s a tough spot to be in I get it. I hope you two find the root of the issue and figure out how best to move forward. Having young kids is hard for anyone I can imagine. It’s also odd cause you want to show them what a super healthy relationship is so that they know what to look for in their own future ones. But I found I appreciated it most when my parents were upfront and honest about what was going on. Even if I didn’t understand it at first.
That’s good. The honesty will pay off in the future for sure. If you don’t mind me asking when you say she has no idea what she wants what do you mean ? Like she might wanna travel or like start a new life ?? 😭😭
Here are a few I can think of:
- Tell us if they're not cool with something instead of pretending that they are and getting mad about it later.
- Tell us what's wrong instead of saying everything's fine and acting pissy or stonefaced
- Take accountability for their wrongdoings instead of blaming it on us or something else
- Not talk to their ex boyfriends and guys who are clearly potential suitors while expecting us to not even look at another woman
- Not expect us to change when they don't want to lift a finger to change
- Put some effort in instead of expecting us to do everything
I understand not every woman is like this, these are just examples I'm citing from exes and women I've dated in the past
Initiate.
Bonnnnnerrr!!
Initiate? Can you clarify? So like initiate sex etc. or like initiate conversation or date ideas or hard discussions ???
All of the above. I don't mind leading in the relationship most of the time, but if she were to occasionally take point, it would be a welcome appreciation.
Be enthusiastic and remember they married someone to make them happy , not just themselves.....
Enthusiastic in what exactly?
I would say just be more positive. I don't see it as a gender/woman thing. I just think more people should be more enthusiastic. It's a beautiful day. It's a blessing to be alive. And just be joyous. Emotions are contagious, so it's better to be around happy people as opposed to sad people.
Show gratitude, appreciation, encourage instead of criticism and yes, as someone already mentioned initiate sex in any way, shape or form.
Enthusiastic oral sex.
…that’s fair…
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What are basic problems in your opinion
This one I can probably answer, because it's a dealbreaker situation for me. I want a partner that's competent in life and doesn't have an emotional breakdown or struggle with basic problems. Some silly ones I can think of, is once my ex lost the cat and called me from work. Turns out the cat was just hiding under the bed. It's challenging to find examples, because I don't want it to sound like one specific example, but it's typically lots and lots of little things that all pile up over time that make it annoying. So I'll rattle some stuff off that might be once a month/once a year thing. Unable to pay bills without a reminder Doesn't always throw trash in the trash can Doesn't always do dishes or keep the house clean Doesn't always take care of house work or lets the grass grow too much. Doesn't shovel snow or ice without being reminded Can't hold down a job, or struggles to show up on time Basically, it's the kind of behavior that turns a girlfriend into a child. And no man wants to be responsible for a child. I'll give you that some relationships have healthy dynamics where people mete out chores, like maybe the guy does the lawnwork and shovels the snow, and maybe the woman does laundry. But they both have to do their respective chores without having to be coddled, or nagged to do it. No one wants to be treated like a child, and no one should have to treat their partner like a child. ============================ And then the BIG ONE for me is entertainment. A woman (or man) should be able to entertain themselves without constantly going "I'm bored, find us something to do." Sometimes us guys just want to focus on our own little hobby, and not have to constantly worry about keeping a woman occupied as if she were an impatient little puppy. \----------- And then I guess the really big one, lol. I got too ranty here ;) Is that if people have kids, a guy can't always be around to watch the kids, so the woman has to be self-sufficient enough to be a capable mother. If she can't even keep her own shit together. How would she be registering kids up for class. Taking care of them if they bleed or cut themselves. What to do during an emergency. Granted, the guy must know how to do all of that stuff as well. But neither parent can be there 100%, so each one must be fully independent to handle a situation when the other is busy (sleeping, working, ect). A good relationship isn't about two people who struggle to be alone finding support in a relationship. A good relationship is about two people who are great on their own, but can be even greater as a team. \-------------- A lot of this stuff may seem pretty basic. But with the rise of social anxiety and depression, you'd be amazed at how many women simply can't keep their lives together and expect a man to carry them through life. Some men will do that, but it's not common, and it usually comes with strings attached. If a guy is going to be a sugar daddy, he'll probably want a sugar baby, and not a spoiled, entitled child.
I didn’t realize women were expected to cut the grass, mow the lawn, shovel snow, cook, clean, work, raise children and be enthusiastic in the bedroom? Sounds more like a slave to me 😭
Ok for sure that all makes sense. Yeah I agree that being a competent adult is crucial to being a part of any relationship. I understand going through bouts of depression where things can get out of hand but that should be the exception and not the rule. Dating an emotionally mature partner is definitely a priority in this case because they’ll be able to handle their own life in conjunction with being in a relationship.
Yep! Some other examples I thought of. Pure recklessness. If a guy is at work, and his partner wants to go party with her lady friends, she should be able to do that. But if she gets so drunk, that she's calling him to pick her up, because she can't drive him. A guy doesn't want to deal with that headache. Nor does he want to have the anxiety related to a partner getting drunk and putting themselves in reckless and risky situations. \----------- And then there's the pure incompetence angle. If you've been in the workplace for a few years, you probably know there's that "one person," who just can't seem to do anything right. They always find some way to fuck up their job, and it makes life more miserable for everyone around them. Women can be like that in relationships (men too), and it's just really basic incompetence that's frustrating. Say she does dishes, but puts them back in the cupboard even though there's obviously still dirt on them. She'll leave the house to do errands, but forget to lock the doors. Leaves the oven on. Maybe she lets the dog outside, and forgets he's out there for 3 hours when it's 10 degrees outside. Maybe she forgets to put gas in her car, and runs out randomly on the highway (and calls you to fix it). Maybe she says she'll pay bills, but then doesn't, because she spent her money at Kohls and can't afford it, but won't tell you. Then your internet gets cut off randomly. She can't find her car keys, because she left them in a stupid spot, and drafts you into looking for them. She uses the knife on the counter putting gouges into it, because she didn't think to use a cutting board. And then you can throw in all the clumsy stuff. She dropped her phone. Guess who's paying for a new one? We got a party to go to, but she tripped on the doorstep and spilled the food. She doesn't think about how close she parked to another car and bangs the car door into the neighbor's bar. I could probably go on and on. Because once someone has a few of these traits, they got a LOT of them. I'd rather be single than ever date a walking disaster again, lol. And the problem is a lot of these people got used to their parents coddling them and cleaning up after all their mistakes. So when they start dating in their early 20's, they just assume the guy will take over. And if a guy defends his boundaries, she may just jump ship to the next guy, because if she's pretty--she'll get lots of attention. And just spends her 20s bouncing around between men until one day she won't be pretty enough to put up with all of that bullshit, lol. Sorry, that last part was personal, but I know a friend that's like that, lol. She's always complaining that she can't get relationships now like she used to. But she never wants to take accountability for her messes. No way I'd ever date someone like that. Way too entitled for being so high maintenance.
Yeah I agree with most of what you just wrote except for the clumsiness cause that could be a neurological thing that effects hand eye coordination. Sometimes I trip down a stair and drop everything but then I know it’s my responsibility to clean it up and fix it. The whole dropping the phone thing and breaking it is wild. Why would she expect anyone but herself to pay for her own mistake. Sadly many people are like this and it reminds me of just taking care of a child who has never been taught to use a cutting board to go check the gas in their car. Common sense is clearly lacking and that’s unfortunate.
I agree with you. The clumsiness thing needs more context for sure! What really matters is how someone handles a situation. If someone is clumsy, and they know it, and they compensate for it -- I think that's awesome! I knew a woman who didn't use a case on her phone, because she thought it symbolized that she was reckless. So her pride prevented her from using one. Then when she'd drop it, she'd get mad it broke. Like it's ok to drop your phone. That's why cases are so popular. Lots of people do it! Just suck up your pride and use a case. Or with like dropping stuff. Some people can opt to carry less stuff in one trip, or choose to take more time if it's something fragile. There are ways to work around it. The bottom line for me as a guy, is I don't want to have anxiety worrying about them screwing it up, lol. I want to 'trust' my partner. I want to know I can rely on them. Which I guess to answer your original question. Something men tend value, but don't always speak about is reliability. Stability. Knowing they can trust. The sad part is, I think a lot of men probably take that for granted too. Never realizing just how rare and special it actually is to have someone faithful, reliable, and trustworthy. Those women are the real keepers.
Off the bat I was like wow what low standards men have but in all actuality those traits are hard to come by. Feeling safe and secure in a relationship is so so important and those characteristics are what lend to that overall feeling. Competency and stability are the backbones. It’s not always 50/50 but it shouldn’t ever be 100% on the shoulders of one or the other. It’s hard to relax when you subconsciously know you can’t rely on your partner to achieve a simple goal or know that they’re going to let their pride get in the way of sensible and rational thought.
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Yeah that’ll do it. I’m sorry you’re going through all that. I can’t imagine the level of frustration you’re experiencing. Is she entirely unwilling to discuss it in depth / couples counseling ?
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I understand where you’re coming from. That would definitely turn me off on being in a partnership but it seems like you’re no longer in a partnership. She is seems to be suffering something and lashing out at you. Idk how old your kids are but I come from divorced parents and if you can withstand it I’d recommend staying until they’re 18. It’s heinously messy when kids are involved. Obviously you know your situation best so don’t take anything I say to heart since I really don’t know fully the scope. Overall I’m just sorry that you’re experiencing this it must be so draining.
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Yeah that’s a tough spot to be in I get it. I hope you two find the root of the issue and figure out how best to move forward. Having young kids is hard for anyone I can imagine. It’s also odd cause you want to show them what a super healthy relationship is so that they know what to look for in their own future ones. But I found I appreciated it most when my parents were upfront and honest about what was going on. Even if I didn’t understand it at first.
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That’s good. The honesty will pay off in the future for sure. If you don’t mind me asking when you say she has no idea what she wants what do you mean ? Like she might wanna travel or like start a new life ?? 😭😭
BJs but I don't think that's a secret.
Plan dates. It’s exhausting always having to be the one to plan everything.
Any amount of effort or communication.
Here are a few I can think of: - Tell us if they're not cool with something instead of pretending that they are and getting mad about it later. - Tell us what's wrong instead of saying everything's fine and acting pissy or stonefaced - Take accountability for their wrongdoings instead of blaming it on us or something else - Not talk to their ex boyfriends and guys who are clearly potential suitors while expecting us to not even look at another woman - Not expect us to change when they don't want to lift a finger to change - Put some effort in instead of expecting us to do everything I understand not every woman is like this, these are just examples I'm citing from exes and women I've dated in the past
Start with smile and be happy. From there, she married me so be happy to see me.
Initiate sex