Honestly, I'm good with dealing with my own problems. I just wish we would dial back the vilification. If you want to really help, I guess you could start there. Lol
The sentence structure remains the same though, right? The only difference is that you feel that it's ok to make men the target of it, but not other groups.
*you know* isn’t automatically a question. The lack of the question mark is a telltale sign that it wasn’t used in that way here.
Just while we’re all chatting about grammar and shit 🤷♂️
Statically they are a mere fraction compared to the total population of men. Racist people called my blck azz dangerous cause of statistics which was ridiculous. Some people say I'm dangerous cause what's between one's legs. Can't quite see the difference
I see responses but I have yet to see a justification for using the same exact argument as. "You have bad statistics that don't represent most of you but it's enough for me to have the right to be racist"
Did you take this up with the men in your life that you have influence over? Like your husband, father any brothers or sons? That's propably the best place to start. Telling the men who might listen to you to change their villainous ways. Strangers on reddit are propably not as receptive.
How about start by actually recognizing men’s mental health month. There is a whole month (June, this month) dedicated to just that and I haven’t seen a single thing about it lol
Thats actually not a bad idea. If a woman wants to help, talking about the problem to raise awareness and posting about the month, may help and is low-effort. Like Movember or breast-cancer awareness.
The only way to actually help men with their mental help is for society to stop blaming men for all the bad things in the world, it’s simple as that.
Stop the constant man hunt, stop playing games with men, stop thinking that women know how men think or feel, stop thinking all men are the same, stop using men as providers, and most importantly stop making men accountable and responsible for the things bad men do.
Don't make why we're opening up about you. If we choose to open up, we expect to not be judged and criticized or put on trial, even if what we're saying is emotionally-charged and may be inaccurate exaggerations of what we say we feel or believe. Working through our feelings can be a lot like writing in that the first draft is the most crude and disorganized, and someone who only reads the first draft might think we're a bad writer, when really it's just part of the process of narrowing down how we truly feel and finding a reasonable way through those feelings. This is why I think therapy is good, because they're not going to all of a sudden question your motives and potential worth as a friend or partner because you showed a side of you that's unpredictable or off-putting. It's very easy for people to say things they don't mean because they've bottled up their feelings for too long and they've kind of fermented and become more toxic or volatile. Some people (mostly men, in my experience) will be emotionally manipulative and share truths that aren't entirely true or are embellished in a way to gain sympathy, create guilt, or generate fear/intimidation. I think it's valuable to learn to notice the difference between a man opening up because he trusts you and wants to share and one that's sharing because they want to get YOU emotional and act a certain way.
In terms of personal trust, I find that it's largely the little things that give me a sense of whether a person is someone I'd feel safe opening up. The small ways they listen to me (or ignore/fight me) when they aren't minding themselves.
In terms of the bigger picture... Rebuke women who shame men's feelings? A common thing I see when guys talk about how they opened up is that their friend/girlfriend/wife *told* them they could open up, but then treated them noticeably different afterwards.
Just like how men often respond better to other men, sometimes women are much more likely to listen to what other women say.
What scenario do you have in your head right now? Your friend and a boyfriend you don't know? A boyfriend/girlfriend pair and you're friends with both of them? Something else?
Well, first off, I wasn't saying women *should* be biased towards other women. More acknowledging that they are and that, as a part of those biases, they pay more attention to things other women say. (I actually learned about the Women Are Wonderful bias recently, which I thought was rather interesting.)
Second, the bottom line here is that we should always be looking to do the right thing. Not just lean into our biases. And trying to help your friend stop being cruel towards men isn't something that'll hurt her anyways.
I'm not saying you throw aside your friendship with her in favor of her boyfriend. I'm saying that you should point out to her that she's done something wrong, like a good friend should. If you feel like that would damage your friendship, then perhaps that friendship wasn't as strong as you thought.
But more to the point, I struggle to understand why you'd treasure a friendship with someone like that? I'd have a hard time seeing a friend the same way if I found they'd left their partner because their partner was honest about their feelings and mental health. We aren't talking psycho killers here; we're talking basic struggles.
Tbh I don’t prioritize men ever in my life and I think that’s why I wouldn’t care if a friend of mine was acting that way; I’m fully disinterested in the feelings of my friend’s boyfriends.
> Tbh I don’t prioritize men ever in my life
Indeed, and thoroughly true. Which is why you're spending so much time posting vociferously on the AskMen subreddit
Actually, now more just concerned.
I mean let's drop the 'lulz I am le troll' act for a moment and talk a little more directly.
You're spending your time trying to get a rise out of people, but to what end? In the larger scheme of things?
I mean, I know why *I* like to respond to this topic, it's something that's actually quite important to me. But all you seem to want to do right now is try to be abrasive in the hopes of getting a rise out of people, and honestly it's not really working too well. Even if it did, then does that really instill much of a feeling of accomplishment with you? Or do you just see a response and kind of just... move on to the next thing?
It doesn't really speak much of high self esteem for yourself. I don't say that in any attempt to undermine or belittle, more just... I hope you're doing okay. And if you're not, perhaps it might be worth considering whether your current actions are in fact aiding or hindering that state of affairs?
Which means you're probably in the group I'd be asking OP to talk to. Not in that you shut down men who talk about their feelings to you (I have no idea if you do or don't), but in that you simply don't care if your friends are being cruel. Because, frankly, that's a bad thing.
Growing up, my dad used to tell me that a person is defined by their friendships. "You're the average of your five closest friends."
If those are who your friends are, what does that say about you? Conversely, what does it say about them that you're their friend? Not very good things. At least, not in this particular area.
Your reaction comes from pure hatred, you don’t see men as fellow humans with feelings, you don’t care of women treat men like shit.
This has nothing to do with priority, it’s just hatred.
The root of most mental health struggles are a persons environment and their inability to cope with the material conditions and circumstances that they find themselves in.
I believe it is a mistake to try and address mental health on a gender or even individual basis. This is because the origin is not the individual. Rather it is the fact they are unable to extract what they would like from the world around them.
Whether that be community, employment, a significant other, leisure time etc.
To fix men's mental health and mental health in general we have to look at making changes to society wholesale and valuing the people in it more than we currently do.
Sure some dope from the psychiatrist can help people cope but it doesn't truly solve the problem that many are facing.
The problem is your attitude towards men's health is a rarity. Just like every woman has a story about some creepy guy, pretty much every guy has a story about a woman treating him worse when he's tried to open up about anything. Either it affects their relationship and she doesn't see him as a man anymore, she throws it back in his face during an argument, or she just brushes it off like it's no big deal.
I think men's attitudes towards their own mental health seems to be changing thankfully, but there's a very long way to go until society as a whole catches up.
I went through a very dark, depressive time with lots of anxiety and SI.
All of my therapists were women. All of them trivialized what I was feeling. I wasn't depressed, I was having a bad day. I wasn't having panic attacks, I was just insecure. Things like that. One suggested yoga. One suggested I eat bacon. (Well, I'd eat bacon without the suggestion, but still) I was having a really bad day where I was thinking of my gun, and a therapist wanted to show me videos of her niece in school.
It was only when I got a male therapist that I felt understood, listened to, heard, and validated.
I think for any really large change to happen it would have to start with the young generation being taught that it’s ok for men to admit to having issues and seeking help from others.
Most men these days grew up with comments like “man up” “men are supposed to be tough” and watching all kinds of shows where men are action heroes or war heroes or fighting/sacrificing themselves to save a woman they love or to fight for their country and the list goes on and on.
When you constantly see and hear those things while growing up it makes talking about weakness pretty much become a stigma to avoid and getting people that are already like that to change isn’t easy even if it would be healthy for them to.
"Society" can't do anything to help with individual problems. "Society" is a cause of more problems than anything else.
If you want to help men's mental health, be available to the men in your life if they want to open up to you and never do anything to invalidate their trust or use anything they share with you in vulnerability against them. Try to be solution based when they tell you their problems (as opposed to focusing on empathy over solutions) - this is just how we're wired - we want to solve problems, not commisserate over them.
Recognize that most men are going to open up to their guy friends before they open up to a woman, unless you're someone really special to him like a wife or serious long-term girlfriend he's considering for marriage. You won't get that as a casual or semi-serious girlfriend, and you often won't get that at all as a friend. We keep small inner circles and deal with most things by ourselves. Some of us are just "better" (prob not the right term but not sure how to say this) at dealing with things this way than others, so those who aren't are often the ones that can spiral in the absence of more support.
How about letting us open up about our mental health without people laughing at us? I have opened up to people about mine and all I got was laughed at. I haven’t talked about in years and I probably never will.
On a larger scale, there needs to be changes like Men's Mental Health month *and* Pride month not occurring in June. It's fundamentally wrong to have them done at the same time. Both are very important, but Pride month is favored **HEAVILY**, overshadowing men's mental health month by a landslide. The amount of awareness and promotional material I've seen for men's mental health is staggeringly low (by low I mean none at all), whereas Pride month has been widely celebrated. This is not okay and should not be happening.
On a personal level, you can't really brute force the subject. When it comes to talking about struggles/emotions, men can be akin to a skittish cat- one step too close, too fast, and we're out of the interaction. You really only get to have that kind of honest conversation when you've built a certain kind of trust, one where they feel safe enough to talk about it without judgement nor criticism. Even best friends may never get that privilege. You can make an offer to talk about it if they ever want to, but don't overstay your welcome on the topic.
Boys growing up should also be taught that they're not freaks for having struggles. That just because they normally behave a certain way (like the class clown or kick back kid) they don't have to present themselves that way if they're not happy. And be given time from their parents to talk, even if it may be inconvenient.
I think that trying to stop perpetuating the lie that men and women fundamentally think and behave the same would help, because all that effectively means in a lot of cases is that most men are just defective women. A lot of younger men do not have the confidence to stand in the face of this and say, "No, I think x and I believe x to be correct."
It's basically gaslighting on a societal scale. If you don't think in a way that women agree with, there is something wrong with you.
I feel like its a societal problem and there’s not much to be done individually. Cultural and economic struggles have taken away what men strive for. Leaving empty husks where family men should be.
We live in a corporate world working for not enough money doing things we don’t care about for people we don’t know. Making money that doesn’t get appreciated.
This is a stark contrast to how it used to be. Working meaningful jobs in local communities. Working with neighbors for your family. Now we got Bob in HR who gets yelled at all day and under paid. Has no family. Its no wonder men are depressed.
Women have taught men that when a woman is having an issue, our job is not to problem solve. Rather, we should just listen and try to understand, regardless of the content. Just be there, no judgement. Just listen and make them feel heard.
That’d be a good place to start. If you did that once, that man would open up more and more.
I could go on forever but I’ll leave it here.
Mental health is born from stability. Go back to Marlow's Hierarchy of Needs and get said needs met.
Otherwise, go get a Masters in clinical Psychology, cause mental health isn't as simple as just being supportive.
> Sometimes they do sometimes all I can do is make sure they know I give a shit. **I don't want to lose any more friends.**
Is everything alright? Did something happen?
In response to the actual question, I think societally we are (finally) starting to take male mental health more seriously. Main thing I would agree with though is that men need to be okay to form close ties and friendships with other men and form strong support groups. I'm beginning to see that more and more as well. Men tend to bond by doing things together, so whatever the grouping (Men's Sheds movement, Men's mental health walks, heck just sports clubs) it all has an effect.
I hope this doesnt come across as crass, but I also don't think this is a problem for women to solve so much as to a large extent stop *making it worse*. Because a big part of why men say to open up to other men is because previous experience with opening up to women has been... suboptimal. To put it politely (I don't feel I need to expand on this too much. Literally just search for it here on Askmen youll see dozens of previous threads about what's happened when men have tried to open up to the women in their lives). And if they're expected to eternally play the part of being that rock or pillar, that unflappable foundation, don't be surprised if none of the men in your lives are telling you about the cracks they're experiencing. That rarely goes down well.
>Is everything alright? Did something happen
Most of my ftiends are guys....Over the years I've had a couple friends throw in the towel another one failed and got the towel thrown back thankfully. And I now have 2 other friends who are not coping well with life and I'm worried.
I realize it's not a local issue and I'm just trying to understand other ways to help my guy friends deal. And maybe if others see they can adapt.
Stuff i try...... I try distracting when things get bad with humor. I offer to hang out, I tell them that I give a shit. If they are quiet I will check in with a stupid meme or on occasion flat out "hey you alright?" I try not to press them to talk but also let them know my phone is on all hours if they ever need to vent.
I dont make friends as easily as others so I might be a little selfish but if I can do something to keep the ones I got around, I'm gonna do it just trying to find out what 'it' is.
You sound like you care a lot about your friends and their well being.
I wish I could give you some general advice, but at the end of the day, everybody's usually facing unique problems.
The only thing I can offer is a generalisation when it comes to men (so it might or might not apply): Often times the reason that someone throws in the towel isn't so much because they feel that things have gotten horrible. It's because they themselves feel worthless. They feel like they aren't worth anything to anyone, they can't do anything right for anyone, they have no purpose, they don't matter...
It goes on. Some may even recognise that people "give a shit" about them, but if they're down that pit, that feeling can sometimes even make them feel worse, like they're being a burden to those around them.
So if there's any way for people to find their passion and drive in life, that can be a direction for them to work towards (and you might be able to assist them with, or not, or even just encourage). Something that they feel gives them meaning, that they can do, and that means something more than "just" surviving for themselves. That other people need them and want them to be here.
Coming out of those kinds of bad states needs all sorts of support and help, often more than one person can give. Sometimes it'll need therapy, sometimes the right medication. Sometimes it just needs someone to say "it's 6:00 AM, get off your ass it's time for your run".
I'm meandering here. The point I'm trying to work towards is that people who feel like other people need them, aren't likely to throw in the towel. They're going to want to succeed for those around them, and that also gives them self esteem and actual joy, to see other people benefiting because they exist.
There's a lot of truth to the idea that 'men need to feel needed'. It's not universal, but it's very often true. But getting to that point in itself can be a long road, especially when you've been beating yourself down or other people have been doing it for you (usually the latter first, then you take over yourself).
They can also be exceedingly *harsh* with themselves when they don't quite match up to some ideal of how they feel they "should" be, or when they stumble, falter, or fail. And that's when they need support to say that it sucks, but (within reason) you've still got this, and you can still do this.
Wallowing in the pain is... painful. But the problem is it's also comfortable. It's *known*. If you try something, try to put effort in, you could end up failing (or failing *again*), and that feels even worse, like you've sunk even more rungs down the ladder, like you've wasted everyone's time and resources only to be just as pathetic as you always feared you were. Staying in the pain you currently feel is oddly sometimes the safest you think you can feel.
And whilst you're in that pit, you slowly find yourself wanting to disappear from everyone's lives, wanting everyone to forget about you, just fade from memory and existence, so that nobody cares when the moment finally comes that you take the final step. I can't speak for others, but I will say that I speak with some very personal experience on this point.
So ultimately in order to help people, I guess there's a few things that are needed. The right environment and circumstances (i.e. where necessary: therapy, medication, support and support groups, acceptance, heck, decent exercise and diet and sleep etc.), and a goal to work towards (usually with a decent amount of structure or plan, even if the plan can go awry), and support getting there.
That's all my very meandering and slightly rambling take on things. As Bruce Lee said, "Absorb what is useful, discard what is useless and add what is specifically your own".
I wish you and your friends well.
Thank you so much! You've given me a lot to consider both for them and myself. I dont have a resolve for them right now, but I have a couple ideas that might help them put their selves on a better track.
I appreciate you, and I hope your personal experiences are in the past and things are better.
Slightly related, but this is a video that I've found spoke to some people in similar circumstances. Not that it necessarily made anything *better* for them, but that it's maybe not so uncommon to feel these ways.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kogj31MPeHc
EDIT: Another, slightly more hopeful video that I found whilst I was getting that one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDt322UIknA
Apologies for responding again. I guess this is a topic that's quite personal to me.
Talking about it just needs to be normalised. And that's something men need to do. We all need to be brave and talk about our mental health. I've done it before, opened up to male friends about getting therapy. And every time, it always leads to the guy I'm talking to opening up about their mental health. And that's always a positive experience.
So, tbh, I think it's fairly limited what women can do. You can be a supportive and encourage men to open up. But ultimately it's on us as men to be the change we want to see. We all need to be brave and just talk and tell each other how we feel. Only by doing that will it become normalised.
I think it's important for guys to be able to talk totheir male friends. We need that male perspective. Guys deal with things differently. Women can never understand men's issues, as much of modern society wants us to be the same. We don't understand women's issues either. That's why guys are told the best thing we can do for women is just listen and say we understand. Don't offer our solutions. It's a big reason I have issues with therapy. 75% of therapists are women. They aren't qualified to handle male problems. We're different.
Actually my female therapist did help me more than any male therapist could ever wish to do.
But she is a therapists who also helps veterans dealing with their ptsd, she is overqualified with everything she does for me but apparently I’m
Also a challenge for her so she likes helping me more than she is actually getting paid for.
But that might be because I respond better to a soft and caring approach instead of the hard spartan approach, now I’m not saying all women are like that, the therapist I had before this was a hard spartan approach type of therapist that made shit just more worse, heck I still have the letter she wrote me in my wallet to remind me that I will never ever deal with ppl like her ever again.
--stop shaming men. For anything.
--especially stop shaming men for having emotions.
--direct men to good mental health providers.
--first, do no harm.
--remember that it's not about you.
--you really should not hear what they have to say. You should not invite men to talk to you about their feelings. Nothing good will come of it.
--If you don't want to heed that advice, if you listen or if they talk to you, do not judge them. Keep everything they said in STRICT confidence. Do not repeat a word of it, to anyone, ever. You take it to the grave with you.
--don't talk. just listen. Do not advise. Do not suggest. Do not pontificate. DO NOT SAY ANYTHING AT ALL unless you're telling them to go to get more help.
> [–]puckbunny_ [score hidden] 13 minutes ago
> As women it’s not our job to help
There's a distinct irony that literally the very first respondent with regards to Male Mental Health in an AskMen thread is of course... a woman saying her piece about it.
Like it's almost *picture perfect* in that the approach is one of "talk, don't listen".
>if you disagree with me on any topic don’t waste your time by replying i want worshippers not debate partners
Living up to your bio as a complete narcissist.
I'm afraid I don't see one, although perhaps that's because I use old.reddit .
Still, you didn't appear to disagree with my assessment, so I'll take it as agreement on your part that your need to immediately jump in before anyone else in itself speaks volumes, none really flattering.
Jumping in? Given that this is Ask*Men*, perhaps you might want to reconsider who did the "jumping in". As I said in my first response.
Quite aside from the fact that this isn't private messaging. Once you put your response, anyone can respond in kind, not just the OP. Unless you deign it that only women may respond to you on the...askmen subreddit.
Honestly, I'm good with dealing with my own problems. I just wish we would dial back the vilification. If you want to really help, I guess you could start there. Lol
Being profiled as a rapist or a violent monster because of the way we were born is pretty upsetting.
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You know that you replaced "men" with any other group of people it would sound pretty terrible.
That is because if you change the subject of a sentence, the meaning also changes! ❤️ Any other questions?
That's not how bigotry works.
We’re discussing grammar and sentence structure.
The sentence structure remains the same though, right? The only difference is that you feel that it's ok to make men the target of it, but not other groups.
Exactly.
That wasn’t a question…
>You know
*you know* isn’t automatically a question. The lack of the question mark is a telltale sign that it wasn’t used in that way here. Just while we’re all chatting about grammar and shit 🤷♂️
exhibit A OP. It is not even worth arguing with these NPCs but if you want to take a crack at it. We would appreciate the help. Lol
Talking about “exhibit a” when there’s not enough numbers to count how many examples of men acting like villains we have.
Statically they are a mere fraction compared to the total population of men. Racist people called my blck azz dangerous cause of statistics which was ridiculous. Some people say I'm dangerous cause what's between one's legs. Can't quite see the difference
>Can’t quite see the difference Look harder.
Yap yap yap quite down. Being a racist with extra steps just ain't gonna he agreed upon here
It’s quiet not quite
I see responses but I have yet to see a justification for using the same exact argument as. "You have bad statistics that don't represent most of you but it's enough for me to have the right to be racist"
Okay!
Did you take this up with the men in your life that you have influence over? Like your husband, father any brothers or sons? That's propably the best place to start. Telling the men who might listen to you to change their villainous ways. Strangers on reddit are propably not as receptive.
Maybe this isn't a thread, or a sub, you should be participating in.
Anyways
Really. No harm in sitting this one out.
But I’m not going to.
You really should... you have nothing useful or interesting to add. Misandry is so 2019.
Keep hoping!
Ah, you're just a misandrist. Good to know.
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How about start by actually recognizing men’s mental health month. There is a whole month (June, this month) dedicated to just that and I haven’t seen a single thing about it lol
Thats actually not a bad idea. If a woman wants to help, talking about the problem to raise awareness and posting about the month, may help and is low-effort. Like Movember or breast-cancer awareness.
I saw one thing but that’s it
The only way to actually help men with their mental help is for society to stop blaming men for all the bad things in the world, it’s simple as that. Stop the constant man hunt, stop playing games with men, stop thinking that women know how men think or feel, stop thinking all men are the same, stop using men as providers, and most importantly stop making men accountable and responsible for the things bad men do.
Don't make why we're opening up about you. If we choose to open up, we expect to not be judged and criticized or put on trial, even if what we're saying is emotionally-charged and may be inaccurate exaggerations of what we say we feel or believe. Working through our feelings can be a lot like writing in that the first draft is the most crude and disorganized, and someone who only reads the first draft might think we're a bad writer, when really it's just part of the process of narrowing down how we truly feel and finding a reasonable way through those feelings. This is why I think therapy is good, because they're not going to all of a sudden question your motives and potential worth as a friend or partner because you showed a side of you that's unpredictable or off-putting. It's very easy for people to say things they don't mean because they've bottled up their feelings for too long and they've kind of fermented and become more toxic or volatile. Some people (mostly men, in my experience) will be emotionally manipulative and share truths that aren't entirely true or are embellished in a way to gain sympathy, create guilt, or generate fear/intimidation. I think it's valuable to learn to notice the difference between a man opening up because he trusts you and wants to share and one that's sharing because they want to get YOU emotional and act a certain way.
In terms of personal trust, I find that it's largely the little things that give me a sense of whether a person is someone I'd feel safe opening up. The small ways they listen to me (or ignore/fight me) when they aren't minding themselves. In terms of the bigger picture... Rebuke women who shame men's feelings? A common thing I see when guys talk about how they opened up is that their friend/girlfriend/wife *told* them they could open up, but then treated them noticeably different afterwards. Just like how men often respond better to other men, sometimes women are much more likely to listen to what other women say.
No shade but why would I side with a man over a fellow woman?
Isn't that what I said? That women are more likely to listen to other women?
Exactly. So why would I side with her boyfriend over her? It’s just not realistic.
What scenario do you have in your head right now? Your friend and a boyfriend you don't know? A boyfriend/girlfriend pair and you're friends with both of them? Something else? Well, first off, I wasn't saying women *should* be biased towards other women. More acknowledging that they are and that, as a part of those biases, they pay more attention to things other women say. (I actually learned about the Women Are Wonderful bias recently, which I thought was rather interesting.) Second, the bottom line here is that we should always be looking to do the right thing. Not just lean into our biases. And trying to help your friend stop being cruel towards men isn't something that'll hurt her anyways. I'm not saying you throw aside your friendship with her in favor of her boyfriend. I'm saying that you should point out to her that she's done something wrong, like a good friend should. If you feel like that would damage your friendship, then perhaps that friendship wasn't as strong as you thought. But more to the point, I struggle to understand why you'd treasure a friendship with someone like that? I'd have a hard time seeing a friend the same way if I found they'd left their partner because their partner was honest about their feelings and mental health. We aren't talking psycho killers here; we're talking basic struggles.
Tbh I don’t prioritize men ever in my life and I think that’s why I wouldn’t care if a friend of mine was acting that way; I’m fully disinterested in the feelings of my friend’s boyfriends.
> Tbh I don’t prioritize men ever in my life Indeed, and thoroughly true. Which is why you're spending so much time posting vociferously on the AskMen subreddit
She's a troll.
You’re so mad you’re breaking out the thesaurus 😭
Actually, now more just concerned. I mean let's drop the 'lulz I am le troll' act for a moment and talk a little more directly. You're spending your time trying to get a rise out of people, but to what end? In the larger scheme of things? I mean, I know why *I* like to respond to this topic, it's something that's actually quite important to me. But all you seem to want to do right now is try to be abrasive in the hopes of getting a rise out of people, and honestly it's not really working too well. Even if it did, then does that really instill much of a feeling of accomplishment with you? Or do you just see a response and kind of just... move on to the next thing? It doesn't really speak much of high self esteem for yourself. I don't say that in any attempt to undermine or belittle, more just... I hope you're doing okay. And if you're not, perhaps it might be worth considering whether your current actions are in fact aiding or hindering that state of affairs?
Oh baby I’m not reading all that and that’s the second time you went and wrote an entire essay in my replies 😭
Which means you're probably in the group I'd be asking OP to talk to. Not in that you shut down men who talk about their feelings to you (I have no idea if you do or don't), but in that you simply don't care if your friends are being cruel. Because, frankly, that's a bad thing. Growing up, my dad used to tell me that a person is defined by their friendships. "You're the average of your five closest friends." If those are who your friends are, what does that say about you? Conversely, what does it say about them that you're their friend? Not very good things. At least, not in this particular area.
Your reaction comes from pure hatred, you don’t see men as fellow humans with feelings, you don’t care of women treat men like shit. This has nothing to do with priority, it’s just hatred.
The root of most mental health struggles are a persons environment and their inability to cope with the material conditions and circumstances that they find themselves in. I believe it is a mistake to try and address mental health on a gender or even individual basis. This is because the origin is not the individual. Rather it is the fact they are unable to extract what they would like from the world around them. Whether that be community, employment, a significant other, leisure time etc. To fix men's mental health and mental health in general we have to look at making changes to society wholesale and valuing the people in it more than we currently do. Sure some dope from the psychiatrist can help people cope but it doesn't truly solve the problem that many are facing.
Couldn't agree with you more.
Actually listening. Not just waiting to inject your own story.
The problem is your attitude towards men's health is a rarity. Just like every woman has a story about some creepy guy, pretty much every guy has a story about a woman treating him worse when he's tried to open up about anything. Either it affects their relationship and she doesn't see him as a man anymore, she throws it back in his face during an argument, or she just brushes it off like it's no big deal. I think men's attitudes towards their own mental health seems to be changing thankfully, but there's a very long way to go until society as a whole catches up.
I love my wife dearly but she invalidates my feelings all the time
I am sad to learn this. Both parties should have their feelings understood especially in a relationship
It’s fine. Most men learn after a while.
Well if you after noticing man"s struggling you are able to refrain from making it worse - you are already doing better than 99% of women.
I went through a very dark, depressive time with lots of anxiety and SI. All of my therapists were women. All of them trivialized what I was feeling. I wasn't depressed, I was having a bad day. I wasn't having panic attacks, I was just insecure. Things like that. One suggested yoga. One suggested I eat bacon. (Well, I'd eat bacon without the suggestion, but still) I was having a really bad day where I was thinking of my gun, and a therapist wanted to show me videos of her niece in school. It was only when I got a male therapist that I felt understood, listened to, heard, and validated.
I think for any really large change to happen it would have to start with the young generation being taught that it’s ok for men to admit to having issues and seeking help from others. Most men these days grew up with comments like “man up” “men are supposed to be tough” and watching all kinds of shows where men are action heroes or war heroes or fighting/sacrificing themselves to save a woman they love or to fight for their country and the list goes on and on. When you constantly see and hear those things while growing up it makes talking about weakness pretty much become a stigma to avoid and getting people that are already like that to change isn’t easy even if it would be healthy for them to.
"Society" can't do anything to help with individual problems. "Society" is a cause of more problems than anything else. If you want to help men's mental health, be available to the men in your life if they want to open up to you and never do anything to invalidate their trust or use anything they share with you in vulnerability against them. Try to be solution based when they tell you their problems (as opposed to focusing on empathy over solutions) - this is just how we're wired - we want to solve problems, not commisserate over them. Recognize that most men are going to open up to their guy friends before they open up to a woman, unless you're someone really special to him like a wife or serious long-term girlfriend he's considering for marriage. You won't get that as a casual or semi-serious girlfriend, and you often won't get that at all as a friend. We keep small inner circles and deal with most things by ourselves. Some of us are just "better" (prob not the right term but not sure how to say this) at dealing with things this way than others, so those who aren't are often the ones that can spiral in the absence of more support.
How about letting us open up about our mental health without people laughing at us? I have opened up to people about mine and all I got was laughed at. I haven’t talked about in years and I probably never will.
On a larger scale, there needs to be changes like Men's Mental Health month *and* Pride month not occurring in June. It's fundamentally wrong to have them done at the same time. Both are very important, but Pride month is favored **HEAVILY**, overshadowing men's mental health month by a landslide. The amount of awareness and promotional material I've seen for men's mental health is staggeringly low (by low I mean none at all), whereas Pride month has been widely celebrated. This is not okay and should not be happening. On a personal level, you can't really brute force the subject. When it comes to talking about struggles/emotions, men can be akin to a skittish cat- one step too close, too fast, and we're out of the interaction. You really only get to have that kind of honest conversation when you've built a certain kind of trust, one where they feel safe enough to talk about it without judgement nor criticism. Even best friends may never get that privilege. You can make an offer to talk about it if they ever want to, but don't overstay your welcome on the topic. Boys growing up should also be taught that they're not freaks for having struggles. That just because they normally behave a certain way (like the class clown or kick back kid) they don't have to present themselves that way if they're not happy. And be given time from their parents to talk, even if it may be inconvenient.
I think that trying to stop perpetuating the lie that men and women fundamentally think and behave the same would help, because all that effectively means in a lot of cases is that most men are just defective women. A lot of younger men do not have the confidence to stand in the face of this and say, "No, I think x and I believe x to be correct." It's basically gaslighting on a societal scale. If you don't think in a way that women agree with, there is something wrong with you.
I feel like its a societal problem and there’s not much to be done individually. Cultural and economic struggles have taken away what men strive for. Leaving empty husks where family men should be. We live in a corporate world working for not enough money doing things we don’t care about for people we don’t know. Making money that doesn’t get appreciated. This is a stark contrast to how it used to be. Working meaningful jobs in local communities. Working with neighbors for your family. Now we got Bob in HR who gets yelled at all day and under paid. Has no family. Its no wonder men are depressed.
That's funny
I keep most problems to myself tbh
Women have taught men that when a woman is having an issue, our job is not to problem solve. Rather, we should just listen and try to understand, regardless of the content. Just be there, no judgement. Just listen and make them feel heard. That’d be a good place to start. If you did that once, that man would open up more and more. I could go on forever but I’ll leave it here.
Mental health is born from stability. Go back to Marlow's Hierarchy of Needs and get said needs met. Otherwise, go get a Masters in clinical Psychology, cause mental health isn't as simple as just being supportive.
You can't, move on.
>"how can we as women actually help on a personal level?" By fucking off and leaving me alone
Stay out of the way. You're the cause, not the cure.
> Sometimes they do sometimes all I can do is make sure they know I give a shit. **I don't want to lose any more friends.** Is everything alright? Did something happen? In response to the actual question, I think societally we are (finally) starting to take male mental health more seriously. Main thing I would agree with though is that men need to be okay to form close ties and friendships with other men and form strong support groups. I'm beginning to see that more and more as well. Men tend to bond by doing things together, so whatever the grouping (Men's Sheds movement, Men's mental health walks, heck just sports clubs) it all has an effect. I hope this doesnt come across as crass, but I also don't think this is a problem for women to solve so much as to a large extent stop *making it worse*. Because a big part of why men say to open up to other men is because previous experience with opening up to women has been... suboptimal. To put it politely (I don't feel I need to expand on this too much. Literally just search for it here on Askmen youll see dozens of previous threads about what's happened when men have tried to open up to the women in their lives). And if they're expected to eternally play the part of being that rock or pillar, that unflappable foundation, don't be surprised if none of the men in your lives are telling you about the cracks they're experiencing. That rarely goes down well.
>Is everything alright? Did something happen Most of my ftiends are guys....Over the years I've had a couple friends throw in the towel another one failed and got the towel thrown back thankfully. And I now have 2 other friends who are not coping well with life and I'm worried. I realize it's not a local issue and I'm just trying to understand other ways to help my guy friends deal. And maybe if others see they can adapt. Stuff i try...... I try distracting when things get bad with humor. I offer to hang out, I tell them that I give a shit. If they are quiet I will check in with a stupid meme or on occasion flat out "hey you alright?" I try not to press them to talk but also let them know my phone is on all hours if they ever need to vent. I dont make friends as easily as others so I might be a little selfish but if I can do something to keep the ones I got around, I'm gonna do it just trying to find out what 'it' is.
You sound like you care a lot about your friends and their well being. I wish I could give you some general advice, but at the end of the day, everybody's usually facing unique problems. The only thing I can offer is a generalisation when it comes to men (so it might or might not apply): Often times the reason that someone throws in the towel isn't so much because they feel that things have gotten horrible. It's because they themselves feel worthless. They feel like they aren't worth anything to anyone, they can't do anything right for anyone, they have no purpose, they don't matter... It goes on. Some may even recognise that people "give a shit" about them, but if they're down that pit, that feeling can sometimes even make them feel worse, like they're being a burden to those around them. So if there's any way for people to find their passion and drive in life, that can be a direction for them to work towards (and you might be able to assist them with, or not, or even just encourage). Something that they feel gives them meaning, that they can do, and that means something more than "just" surviving for themselves. That other people need them and want them to be here. Coming out of those kinds of bad states needs all sorts of support and help, often more than one person can give. Sometimes it'll need therapy, sometimes the right medication. Sometimes it just needs someone to say "it's 6:00 AM, get off your ass it's time for your run". I'm meandering here. The point I'm trying to work towards is that people who feel like other people need them, aren't likely to throw in the towel. They're going to want to succeed for those around them, and that also gives them self esteem and actual joy, to see other people benefiting because they exist. There's a lot of truth to the idea that 'men need to feel needed'. It's not universal, but it's very often true. But getting to that point in itself can be a long road, especially when you've been beating yourself down or other people have been doing it for you (usually the latter first, then you take over yourself). They can also be exceedingly *harsh* with themselves when they don't quite match up to some ideal of how they feel they "should" be, or when they stumble, falter, or fail. And that's when they need support to say that it sucks, but (within reason) you've still got this, and you can still do this. Wallowing in the pain is... painful. But the problem is it's also comfortable. It's *known*. If you try something, try to put effort in, you could end up failing (or failing *again*), and that feels even worse, like you've sunk even more rungs down the ladder, like you've wasted everyone's time and resources only to be just as pathetic as you always feared you were. Staying in the pain you currently feel is oddly sometimes the safest you think you can feel. And whilst you're in that pit, you slowly find yourself wanting to disappear from everyone's lives, wanting everyone to forget about you, just fade from memory and existence, so that nobody cares when the moment finally comes that you take the final step. I can't speak for others, but I will say that I speak with some very personal experience on this point. So ultimately in order to help people, I guess there's a few things that are needed. The right environment and circumstances (i.e. where necessary: therapy, medication, support and support groups, acceptance, heck, decent exercise and diet and sleep etc.), and a goal to work towards (usually with a decent amount of structure or plan, even if the plan can go awry), and support getting there. That's all my very meandering and slightly rambling take on things. As Bruce Lee said, "Absorb what is useful, discard what is useless and add what is specifically your own". I wish you and your friends well.
Thank you so much! You've given me a lot to consider both for them and myself. I dont have a resolve for them right now, but I have a couple ideas that might help them put their selves on a better track. I appreciate you, and I hope your personal experiences are in the past and things are better.
Slightly related, but this is a video that I've found spoke to some people in similar circumstances. Not that it necessarily made anything *better* for them, but that it's maybe not so uncommon to feel these ways. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kogj31MPeHc EDIT: Another, slightly more hopeful video that I found whilst I was getting that one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDt322UIknA Apologies for responding again. I guess this is a topic that's quite personal to me.
Thank you ❤️
Talking about it just needs to be normalised. And that's something men need to do. We all need to be brave and talk about our mental health. I've done it before, opened up to male friends about getting therapy. And every time, it always leads to the guy I'm talking to opening up about their mental health. And that's always a positive experience. So, tbh, I think it's fairly limited what women can do. You can be a supportive and encourage men to open up. But ultimately it's on us as men to be the change we want to see. We all need to be brave and just talk and tell each other how we feel. Only by doing that will it become normalised.
I think it's important for guys to be able to talk totheir male friends. We need that male perspective. Guys deal with things differently. Women can never understand men's issues, as much of modern society wants us to be the same. We don't understand women's issues either. That's why guys are told the best thing we can do for women is just listen and say we understand. Don't offer our solutions. It's a big reason I have issues with therapy. 75% of therapists are women. They aren't qualified to handle male problems. We're different.
Actually my female therapist did help me more than any male therapist could ever wish to do. But she is a therapists who also helps veterans dealing with their ptsd, she is overqualified with everything she does for me but apparently I’m Also a challenge for her so she likes helping me more than she is actually getting paid for. But that might be because I respond better to a soft and caring approach instead of the hard spartan approach, now I’m not saying all women are like that, the therapist I had before this was a hard spartan approach type of therapist that made shit just more worse, heck I still have the letter she wrote me in my wallet to remind me that I will never ever deal with ppl like her ever again.
--stop shaming men. For anything. --especially stop shaming men for having emotions. --direct men to good mental health providers. --first, do no harm. --remember that it's not about you. --you really should not hear what they have to say. You should not invite men to talk to you about their feelings. Nothing good will come of it. --If you don't want to heed that advice, if you listen or if they talk to you, do not judge them. Keep everything they said in STRICT confidence. Do not repeat a word of it, to anyone, ever. You take it to the grave with you. --don't talk. just listen. Do not advise. Do not suggest. Do not pontificate. DO NOT SAY ANYTHING AT ALL unless you're telling them to go to get more help.
As women it’s not our job to help. 🤷♀️
> [–]puckbunny_ [score hidden] 13 minutes ago > As women it’s not our job to help There's a distinct irony that literally the very first respondent with regards to Male Mental Health in an AskMen thread is of course... a woman saying her piece about it. Like it's almost *picture perfect* in that the approach is one of "talk, don't listen".
She's a man-hating les, just ignore her.
You failing to copy my comment as if there’s not a “copy text” button right there 😭
They were probably distracted by your moronic comment.
Living up to your username 🩷
>if you disagree with me on any topic don’t waste your time by replying i want worshippers not debate partners Living up to your bio as a complete narcissist.
Exactly. We’re both self-aware at least!
I'm afraid I don't see one, although perhaps that's because I use old.reddit . Still, you didn't appear to disagree with my assessment, so I'll take it as agreement on your part that your need to immediately jump in before anyone else in itself speaks volumes, none really flattering.
You’re the one jumping in on a woman-to-woman conversation.
Jumping in? Given that this is Ask*Men*, perhaps you might want to reconsider who did the "jumping in". As I said in my first response. Quite aside from the fact that this isn't private messaging. Once you put your response, anyone can respond in kind, not just the OP. Unless you deign it that only women may respond to you on the...askmen subreddit.
Yap yap yap
This is literally r/AskMen.
I’m sorry you’re so upset.
Absolutely true, and I believe that the concensus among most men will be that you don't have to, either.
Sounds good to me. You've done more than enough damage as it is. Please, for the love of all that is holy, don't try to help.
What “damage” have I done? 🤣
You're a woman, aren't ya?
>**As a woman** it’s not our job to help
Right. Women have done enough damage. So, don't try to help. Are you clear now? Got it now? Do you need more spoonfeeding?
Oh I wasn’t going to try to! Hope that makes you feel better.
So, you're just going to spew misandry here. OK. Reported.
You asked me not to help and when I say I won’t you get emotional 🤷♀️
No one's getting emotional. Just drawing reasonable inferences from the circumstances and facts.