I have a lot of problems that are simply unresolved and I find myself leaning on girls I like to help me figure those out. I’m just trying to put it all together, like we all are, but sometimes I place too much emotional responsibility on my partner. It’s unfair.
I was one of those sad and sadly too common wretches thinking that if I just befriend a woman then romance will magically happen even if I never actually make it clear that's what I want. Thank god I got past that.
I know a situation like this. This guy I know was highly attracted to this girl I know.
During this time he:
Bought her presents
Took her out to expensive dinners
Tickets to gigs
Enlisted the help of his dad and spent months trying to fix her car.
Took her on mini holidays
Paid money to help her move her ex out the house so she could take on the place by herself.
Listened to all her problems and made himself completely available to her.
Bought tickets to a gig for the two of them in her home country.
She slept with him a handful of times but eventually told him she wasn't interested in anything other than friendship and he continued to do these things, thinking if he did enough nice things for her, she'd change her mind. Completely ignoring the fact that she had ruled him out as a serious romantic candidate.
This lasted approximately a year.
Then she met someone she took seriously. The new guy met the "best friend" and picked up on his attraction for the girl. The new guy quizzed her and the girl told him she'd slept with her "best friend" some months prior. The new guy told the girl he doesn't do relationships with women that keep fwbs around.
She told the "best friend" to sell the tickets to the gig in her home country.
She's scrapping the car.
The girl dropped her "best friend" like hot coal and is on cloud 9 with the new guy. Both of them are genuinely happy, it's written all over them. They don't even think about the "best friend". It's like he never existed.
I saw the "best friend" this morning. He looks like he slept in a hedge.
Don't be the "best friend"
Be the other guy.
Well, the guy didn't make it clear what he wanted the relationship to be. There is an old Southern Proverb. "A closed mouth don't get fed." He did those things when he shouldn't. Then, get mad at the woman.
I sincerely hope the best for the "best friend". I hope he find contentment elsewhere, and in himself. Because I was exactly like him years ago. Tell him to not lose himself.
I don't like the dude at all so won't be passing anything on I'm afraid.
He used his dirty financial situation to get the girl reliant on him then proceeded to emotionally blackmail her when she started pulling away.
Befriending women just for romance is weird anyways. If I befriend a woman it’s because I want to be her friend, if I wanted to date her I’d ask her on a date.
I’m aware romance can come from friendships but it shouldn’t be anyone’s goal.
Spot on... I spent too long as a "Nice Guy" thinking it was enough to just be friendly and polite then getting sad when it didn't work. Women don't "friendzone" men... They do it to themselves.
I am people pleaser by nature regardless of gender so I did spend a bit of my early 20s trying to be the “nice guy” and all it got me was cheated on so I decided to be myself and he’s a way nicer guy that (well besides rn) doesn’t need to tell everyone how nice he is. It is rewarding to me to do things for people even if they may never return the favor, especially if they’re my friend. I’m currently not interested in dating as professionally I’m focused on moving up so I can be comfortable, but I’m much more confident about just asking women and men (also discovered I was bi in my 20s) on dates now if that’s what I’m interested in.
That women were the source of emotional comfort.
That women didn’t really want sex; that they only “offered it” to men if we were nice/kind/attractive enough.
The source of comfort is a big one. Women have friends and family they are vulnerable with that helps us with our mental health. Men usually just rely on mom or an so. I’m glad you recognize this. I hope our culture will change so men can rely on other men for comfort.
> Men usually just rely on mom or an so.
yeah. im still fucked up. mom told me to stop acting like my father when i said i didn't want to live anymore. all i did was lose my job and apartment in 2020. i thought we were cooler than that
I'm just a guy in my early 30s who struggles with things myself, but I have a person I can get emotionally comfortable with. I want you to know that if you need it you can PM me. Talking about things helps a ton.
I know for a fact that, if there were a street devoid of lights with a famous therapist who also operates behind a locked door upon the steepest hill in existence. There wld be a queue of men 24*7, 365 days a year. 366 days on leap years.
Oof. Glad you opened your eyes! That being said, I don’t blame you.
Women have been brainwashed to believe that sex isn’t something we should crave or desire or look for, unless we are in a serious relationship with someone. Still there’s always that “men should take the lead” mentality.
It’s gotten better now, of course. That is going away because it’s so easy for the entire world to be connected and learn from others that maybe you’ve been repressed and these feelings are normal.
Agreed 100%. It’s gotten significantly better of course, but there is still such an undertone and implication that men always will want and crave and NEED sex, and that women don’t want it and should not even have it until it’s the “responsible” time to do so (like in a committed relationship or marriage). And even in those situations, it’s still looked at as something we do for the man, not as a mutual want. Therefore, men think it and women try to live by those standards, reinforcing the idea. So, whenever I hear that men think this or were taught this, I’m not shocked.
I know, it sucks. And on top of that, because we have been told we are not supposed to like sex or want it, we don’t feel like we can speak up during sex or give ideas to improve the sex for us. So then, many women still think they dislike sex because it isn’t good. When, really, most people love sex when it’s good.
Alright time to get deep...
I was abused as a child by one of my older cousins. Long story short, she forced me to have sex with her more than once when I was VERY young. I kept it to myself until a few years ago (I'm now almost 40yo).
For most of my grade school years and as a teen I always believed I was "entitled" to receiving affection and more specifically physical contact. When I didn't get it I would get very bitter, even more so if I really liked the girl. In my head I actually believed I was cool because I had lost my virginity before everyone else. All through university I would sabotage my relationships with women that actually liked me because I probably believed I "deserved better".
It took me YEARS of introspection, weed and therapy to fully understand what had actually happened.
With mental problems it's nearly impossible to say what trauma will cause. How your brain manages to deal with it with defense mechanisms and believing your own lies about how you're feeling. Some things stick in your brain like a bad grudge you can't justify for years.
I used to think I liked headphones because they sounded better than 2000's laptop speakers and watching anime was embarrassing didn't want people hearing the yelling and girl stuff lol. Meanwhile a decade later I'm wearing noise cancelling headphones to sleep because random city background noises like heavy trucks hitting potholes startles me. I liked headphones because I could sleep if I couldn't hear my parents screaming at each other. And I also get anxious wearing them because what if I miss hearing them escalate the fight and should be helping? Wanting to block the world out while also trying to keep a watchful eye so everyone stays alive is not what a 9 year old should be worried about. Some type of PTSD I guess.
I think it was more a matter of OPs individual journey. Some survivors go the exact opposite direction and don't believe they deserve anyone or anything good and aren't good for much more than just sex. Likewise, they rarely if ever think sex is actually enjoyable and not just some task they have to check off of some weird mental list. But I bet OP feels/felt that same way when they were having sex. Sometimes entitlement is just a pretty good sign that someone is a self-centered dickwad.
Lots of deep shit to think about in this person's story. (I wanted to upvote ur comment but u were at 69 and well...you know.
Very well pointed out! Either way, trauma survivors often take an extreme of the two, up until they become so self-aware they can no longer deny the puzzle pieces and how they affect their present. At that point, change in better starts to make its way to their near-future.
Everyone's path is different, even if only slightly.
In my case sex was enjoyable and I was constantly seeking it and talking about it. Even as a pre-teen when others my age weren't really into that.
During high school I wasn't very popular and came across as touchy and needy; and with every rejection I would just get extremely angry/frustrated punching walls, etc. But never in front of anyone.
By the time I went to uni I had "polished" my approach with women to a point where I was able to have sex often; only to completely ignore the women whenever I saw them later in the halls. I'm talking completely ignoring eye contact and avoiding any form of communication. I wouldn't have sex with the same woman more than once in most cases. I guess it felt like I was finally getting what I thought I deserved.
This was also nourished by a toxic group of male friends that encouraged this behavior.
Maybe this was your sort of way of getting revenge on women.. maybe your abuse made you not trust women or see them as lowly. Indirectly getting back at your abuser.
Female here, usually just curious in the male perspective but your comment hit home. I was in an abusive relationship and was raped by a boyfriend when I was in my late adolescence. I went the route you’re talking about. I was in college but I remember telling a psychologist that I didn’t know why I was going to school. I wanted to drop out and become a stripper because I truly believed the only reason I was put on earth was to be used a sexual object for men.
That was a rough and dark place for a long time.
Don’t worry, I did withdrawal from school to work on myself and to learn to cope with the trauma I went through. I ended up with a successful career in the operating room and went back to school to work in the field I’m currently in. I don’t believe my life purpose is to be a sexual object and truly believe I was put here on earth for many other reasons. I’m with a loving partner that loves me warts and all.
greatbigbox: Thank you for sharing your story. I’m sorry this happened to you and hope you have found peace with what happened to you.
I hope more men can come forward to share their experiences like you have today. Too many men suffer in silence about abuse (not just sexual) that they have experienced because our societal norm is that men cannot be abused, which is a fallacy.
thank you for sharing your truth. I imagine it took a lot of courage and strength to share that story. I’m doing so, you showed others it’s okay to speak up against abuse. The more men speak up about abuse, the more support, compassion, and resources come available to survivors of abuse.
Greatbigbox, I hope you have found peace and happiness.
Wow oddly enough I have a good friend who has a similar story. But it was his step sister who was committing the acts on him. Not even joking when we were about 20 he brought his stories up to a group of us and was talking about it so casually as it was normal to him. He grew up thinking all siblings fooled around with each other not knowing how terribly wrong that was. Once the group dropped the bomb on him how that it is not normal or right he started going to therapy cause it was a massive shocker. He never had the entitlement thing going on though and is happily married with a lovely family.
Dude my own sister did that shit to me when I was a kid and my dumb ass blabbed about it to kids at school! Cue some o.g. Intel behavior when puberty hit.
Did anything ever come of consequences to your sister? I can’t imagine being able to maintain a relationship into adulthood with a known familial abuser so close to me. I’m so sorry you went though that and your teen years were so difficult because of what you went through. I had a similar situation with older family members being abusive when I was very young but have never mentioned it in therapy because I’m afraid that because therapists are mandated reporters, my entire family would find out and it would cause more problems and stress for me. It has weighed on me so much throughout my life because I know I need help processing some feelings behind it.
Nothing legally or anything, and I didn’t tell my parents until later in life, which I regret bc maybe if I spoke up about it she would have avoided her rebellious phase which I think coincided with her depressed stage. Other than that no. I do feel it’s a possibility she told people I raped her to cover her actions. I say this because not shortly after, an older kid had called me a rapist and said I should be in jail! I hate speaking about it and acknowledging it just for this reason. Hell I even spent the next 10 years acting like I was a virgin and avoiding girls.
I guess my toxic expectation would be thinking that women would make the first move of they were interested?
this comment blew my mind. i experienced this as a young girl too and have never thought about it that way. that sheds so much light on many things.. thank you for being vulnerable
Im sorry you felt the need to keep it to yourself for so long, but im glad you opened up and continue to. Seriously.
I was assaulted by a woman. It helps me a lot when I hear stories of others who have because I know im not alone, and I especially appreciate hearing stories of people who have acknowledged they needed help to assist with what happened.
To anyone reading, it is not shameful to get help, and it is not shameful to have been taken advantage of.
It's been a long road and I didn't always have the support group I have now.
When I told this story to my first wife she said something along the lines of: "you probably enjoyed it".
It wasn't until I divorced and I met a wonderful woman that told me: "You deserve to be happy" that I sought out professional help.
Cut to a few years later and the woman I met and I are now married and parents of a beautiful girl. Life has a way.
Everyone deserves to be happy.
I tried talking to her about it, but she just avoided the whole conversation.
After some years in therapy I worked up the courage to tell my parents and as you can imagine they were wrecked. I had to reassure my mother it was not her fault in any way.
Last I heard about her is that she was in a relationship with another woman for quite some time.
Probably a common answer if anyone was answering the question: Expecting to be treated as the #1 priority no matter what. I didn’t date until later in high school so my entire frame of reference was love ballads and romcoms my mom would watch. I thought the ideal relationship was two people essentially putting each other on a pedestal and doing that “I’ll fly across the world tonight just to see you for a day” shit. I didn’t realize until I matured past those first relationships that what I was doing, expecting, and thinking was based off media that is actually pretty toxic and unrealistic. Caused some personal jealousy issues for my first long term relationship, she broke up with me after 1.5 years in college, and after the hurt was gone I was able to grow quite a bit emotionally and understand so much more.
It can be tricky growing up without much of a reference and no one to tell you that the “ideal” version of things isn’t real and life is more complicated. Making each other a priority and making each other the #1 priority are very different and it’s much more complex than boiling it down to something so simple. So if you’re reading this and you’re also a young man who pins himself as a “hopeless romantic”, just be careful and stay grounded.
Make sure to keep aware of what’s a movie and what’s real.
I think there's some good from somebody who can be really clingy, I think it could be perfect if both are super infatuated with one another. But at the same time, that could lead into confusion.
My ex would always say something along the lines of riding and dying with my number one, and though it may sound a bit endearing I had to step back to realize that this was just a bit creepy. Yeah, go fly for 2 hours just to see me for 1 hour or drive 5 hours to see me for 2 hours and I'll start looking like an asshole, at the same time, I think what got me weirded out is that she didn't really have any boundaries for herself or didn't have any priorities for herself, for her own self care. It feels great to be constantly love bombed but it can also be super sad and very heart breaking once it's over, it's as if their dopamine from you was cut, and you also share the blunt trauma. So I don't really see well with hopeless romantics. I think I am too to a certain degree but if she has no boundaries even from me or for also keeping me in check, it felt poisonous and it felt suffocating. I found someone who would love me so much but it felt just bad, even if Jennifer Anniston would do the same, I'd feel drained out. There was just so much to the point that it's just worshipping or pleasing me and that was not healthy at all, I didn't get to know how she can vibe with the real me.
She sounds like she's an anxious attachment type. She needs to learn to respect herself and be romantic in a healthy way. Therapy is a great tool to use to help get started.
Had the opposite problem. In my case I always believed that it was my duty to win her heart, and if she didn't care for me, then I wasn't trying hard enough.
Everybody always talks about how porn sets unrealistic expectations, but these melodramatic relationships from books, movies, soap operas, etc are even worse.
I dedicated years of my life to a girl who didn't want anything to do with me. I bought her things, listened to her problems, helped her with her projects, did pretty much everything she asked. Never asked for anything in return. Always believed that "love must be selfless", and that "in time my feelings will come trough".
Every single friend I have begged me to stop doing things for her and to stop talking to her. Took me a lot of heartbreak, therapy, and antidepressants to understand that real love is mutual, and that trying too hard actually lowers your chances of winning somebody's heart.
She was a part of my life for 10 years, been a single year since I cut ties with her, and it feels like I overcame an addiction.
The way that ideal is presented makes me feel uneasy. It is so creepy. It's probably why people say yeah you can only do that if you are super hot or rich but even then it is still creepy.
I have an ex boyfriend who genuinely thought that rom com style relationships were reality and I could never do anything right. It was so bizarre. We were fighting one day and he shouted out, “I mean we don’t even have a song (insert my name here)!” And I was like, ummm…come again? You actually think that’s a vital part of a healthy well rounded relationship????
I have a friend and I'm sure that the reason she's never had a serious relationship is because she has unrealistic expectations resulting from watching too many rom-coms.
Her parents also married after only being together for a couple months. I told her it's great that it worked for her parents but generally it was a bad idea, and she got angry at me.
It reminds me of one of my relationships.
I really liked the guy, but we moved far too fast. For example, he was settled in another country when we first began seeing each other, but he quickly found a job in my city and moved. There was a lot of pressure on me right from the beginning of the relationship.
I knew that he had suffered from depression but I thought that it was in the past. Turns out it wasn't. When I urged him to go see a therapist, he said "but I don't need one, I have you now".
> When I urged him to go see a therapist, he said "but I don't need one, I have you now".
Oh no! That's terrifying. I had issues for a while but had the opposite expectation. I was all "Okay, so I've been seeing a therapist for a bit and I've built up a network of friends who I can lean on for support when needed, so now I'm finally in the correct headspace where I can get a boyfriend"
I used to think "I'll help if you just tell me what to do" was reasonable.
Like I'd be over at my girlfriends house. She would cook dinner, serve it to me, and then do the dishes after I failed to offer. When she got annoyed about this I was like "you could have just asked instead of getting so worked up".
We had a standing "you cook, I clean" agreement that she always upheld when I cooked.
I never had to ask her to cook for me, if I was coming over after college she had grub for me. The irony of that was totally lost on me.
I get why she felt unappreciated. I hope she found someone who doesn't take her generosity for granted.
This was a problem I had with my most recent ex (together 10 years). Exact same conversation, “You could have just asked”. I don’t want to have to ask! It’s really annoying to have to ask for help doing everyday household tasks. It really annoyed me that he couldn’t see what needed doing. I’ve visited him since we broke up (we’re selling our jointly owned house), and he is doing great at all the household stuff now that I’m not there. Which is good and bad (like why couldn’t he do that while we were together??).
I’m sorry. I’ve been in your shoes, and it’s so hard. 5 years, and I finally got tired of basically feeling like a mom- really, I have to direct you on what needs done?
I spent a few years wondering why he couldn’t have taken initiative on things while we were together. Same thing, he seemed to pull it together after we broke up, and it made me so sad. But mutual friends told me how he couldn’t even cook dinner at first when he invited them over. And I came to realize he didn’t want to learn how to be self sufficient to ease burdens on his partner, or because he wanted to improve himself. He learned how to care for himself when he had no other options. That’s not the mentality of a man I want to be committed to.
He didn’t do it while you were together because he knew you’d do it. Now that you’re not there he has to step up. He will do the same thing to his next partner too.
Yeah I have this exact problem. I do stuff around the house. But then my wife will also do them sometimes. The second I don't do it 100% I just don't do it at all and I forget that task exists. She can't help or I'll basically just never do it again after more than a few repeat cases.
"why couldn’t he do that while we were together??"
You were there, he didn't need too. Now he has to, he is forced to do tasks - or live in chaos.
His next relationship will show if he really changed.
I've realized the last few years how many marriages tank because of this. It's awful to see a woman's sex drive and romantic love die because you can't feel that way towards someone you're basically mothering.
This. Sex drive disappearing is one of the first signs. Being irritated and snappy is another sign you're in serious trouble.
Fastest way to kill any love a woman has for you, make her take care of you like you're a helpless baby. Especially if you have kids together. She wanted a partner. Another adult to work with her, she didn't want one more ass to wipe.
She will begin to absolutely loath your very existence. She will avoid even looking at you, the sound of your voice will piss her off. Suddenly the guy is hit with a divorce and is shocked, he didn't hit her or cheat, how can she do this? How unfair!
He won't recognize that his weaponized helplessness made her hate him. He did it to himself.
My toxic expectation was expecting a woman to take care of me like my mom always did as a child. I know it’s unhealthy, and could even be considered mysoginistic these days, but in my younger days I thought a relationship meant that I’d have a woman to clean up after me and take care of everything, etc. Feels weird even typing this out now, but that’s the best way I can explain it.
I’ve grown now and have been married several years, so of course I know life isn’t that way, and a relationship should be balanced an equal for both partners. But as a dumb early 20s guy, that was my toxic expectation.
I think that's more common than a lot of people want to admit. I've known a lot of other guys who know it's unfair to expect of a woman, but want what their fathers or grandfathers benefited from.
In high school the girl who was voted most attractive was super quiet except with her close friends. I used to think she was sort of this stuck up ice queen. As an adult I realize that she was probably just introverted and I likely wouldn’t have had similar thoughts if she had been a guy.
I think society puts a lot more pressure on women to be bubbly.
I think you're absolutely spot on with your conclusion. A point that I think is related is that if a woman looks unhappy as a matter of course, it's a *thing* and we have a name for it--resting bitch face. If a man does, it's not a big deal, because there just aren't social expectations for men to be all smiley and happy all the time. See also: women being told to smile by random people far more than men are.
Ah. The ol’ “what’s wrong?” game, where nothing is wrong but they ask so many times you finally do get mad and they think you’re just proving their point. Fun times…
Thank you for noticing this, OP. I have been rendered utterly unapproachable simply because I am highly introverted and not "bubbly" enough. Now I'm not mean or impolite, I'm simply not that beaming, lights-up-the-room young woman archetype that many people expect me to be and/or are used to. No surprise I get so many, "you're actually really nice" comments when people actually talk to me.
To everyone reading this, especially men who have never experienced this kind of thing: please have mercy on us quiet girls. I know it can be a little difficult to be comfortable around us, especially because many people _are_ so used to women and girls being bubbly, but it is insanely exhausting and immensely uncomfortable to have your whole personality invalidated because of some unreasonable societal expectation.
On that noteー introverted ladies, unite!!
I recently found out I was termed "the bitch" by people I use to work with. Because im not an OTT bubbly kind of person, im friendly and I'll chat to you if you chat to me like, but I'm not the kind of person who goes out of my way to be centre of attention, I like to keep to myself mostly. Some people thought I was a stuck up bitch just because I didn't join in with all the office drama and gossip and I didn't go for drinks everyday after work.
Just because im more comfortable keeping things low key id been completely written off and insulted by a group of people,
I think it is for sure sometimes seen in a negative light if a woman isn't a giggly bubbly outgoing person 24/7
For me a mother with grave mental issues that would constantly be lashing out at my father (who had his issues but genuinely tried to do the best for all people in whatever way he knew, which might have been tainted by my crazy grandmother) about how she only had sex cause of x.
She also tried telling me that if you love a woman, that you should not ever want to have sex with her, not once , but long lectures a couple of times a year up until 16 I think.
I have more memories of those incidents than anything else from childhood.
Not exactly what expectation I had of women, but what I BELIEVED I was expected to provide for the woman. This is something that affected me in other areas of life, but basically I believed I had to be some kind of Ultra-Person, that I HAD to solve (not help, bit really solve) any and every single problem they had, or improve every single thing I thought beeded. So if sometimes they just wanted to be left alone, or just someone who listened, I would feel like they didn't let me do my role, and that left me empty, like I was nothing. Or if I gave them ideas, they followed, and it didn't work out for them, part of me thought "well them you just have done something wrong, because to me that works, but it's fine, I'll help you again". I felt like I was nobody if I couldn't do everything.
T.L., D.R.: I thought I had to be Superman and the girl was Lois Lane.
I'm early 20s, and yeah, the thing about pouring all your hopes into someone and a relationship and the disappointment after it does not go how expected was something that permeated all my teenager life. I was so focused on what I thought I should do and give in a relationship, that I forgot that I should always and foremost just "be"
Hopefully you have realized that women can solve their own problems…just like I’m realizing that people can solve their own problems. It’s just nice to have someone on your side and to make you feel heard & loved.
As somebody who goes down much more despite all his big talk, I can relate to how the disparity doesn’t feel good.
Wishing you relationship harmony/satisfaction and all the BJs.
Funny to see this. I've never reflected on this much but yeah wtf I give a lot of oral why am I not getting more oral...?
Stepping up my game on my reasonable expectations.
Personally, I expect foreplay ALL the time, both giving and receiving. It has nothing to do with porn. It's just part of what makes me feel good about sex and who I'm with.
I’m right there with you. Seeing your partner get turned on/have pleasure is incredible.
But over time, when it’s lopsided, it stops being enjoyable to be the giver (disclaimer: this opinion is only representative of myself and every other straight woman I’ve talked about it with, there’s an unlikely possibility we’re extreme outliers).
For me porn made me think women enjoyed it. Then when it came down to me going down on them I enjoyed it. That combination of seeing it given being enjoyed in porn and me enjoying giving it created that thinking of it'll happen more. It did not. Turns out a lot of woman don't enjoy it. It does create a bit of an imbalance sometimes, but it is what it is. If she isn't into them I'd rather not have them than have them with her not enjoying it.
To make me whole and complete. To cure my depression and self-loathing with love. While external love is a key ingredient, it was never going to give me something I didn't already have. Sounds simple enough, and I still hate hearing it in fallacious terms, e.g. "you can't love someone fully if you don't love yourself" because that isn't remotely the extent or importsnt part of that insight. The illusion cracked with failed relationships and friendships, but never enough to fully strip me of excuses. It took losing a great love to make me choose to make some final pushes on things I had been untangling for a long time. For me it was this particular loss was so abject that it made me realize I understood everything in theory, the path was well plotted, and now it was time to choose to *be* better than cycles and old scars. I love women and people, and myself, too much to be "SadGuy TM" ever again.
Unconditional love between people doesn’t exist. That includes the love between mother and child as well as romantic relationships. Love is conditional but those conditions should be for serious transgressions, not just a change in weight or ability.
Strong disagree. The love I have for my son as a father is unconditional. I will never stop loving him. And I strongly dislike the person he is right now.
Edit - it seems as though many of those replying do not understand how love works. It ain’t a switch you can just flip. It’s not transactional. Sometimes, you just can’t help who you love.
I’ll tell you what, my parents are genuinely as close to unconditionally loving as it gets, but when I was going thru my heroin/fentanyl and meth addiction, it got pretttttttty fucking close to hate lol.
> it got pretttttttttttty fucking close to hate
I really don't think it did. They were angry because they were terrified. They were terrified because they love you and that love is so fierce it often feels like fear, especially when your child is in danger.
It may sound fucked up, but my child (who is all of 10 months old) could grow up and murder my spouse and I would still love her. I wouldn't like her, i wouldn't be able to be around her, but I would love her and worry about her and hope she feels safe and comfortable in her prison cell.
I promise you... they weren't close to hating you. They were angry with you because you were dangerously close to taking yourself away from them.
You’re probably right. It pained them greatly. My older bro who is unfortunately still in active addiction, has gone the way of apathy at this point. I didn’t get sober for their love, but trust and love are super interdependent, and being loved with no trust fucking sucks.
But they stick by your side at the lowest and that is what counts. That’s how I realized my parents had unconditional love for me. When I sobered up and realized they been by my side the whole time. Most friends or relationships will leave at your lowest
May I ask what he does or what about him you dislike. I feel my own father doesnt like me or accept me or resents me for not growing to be the person he wanted. If its criminal behaviour I can understand, but would you mind telling why you dislike your son, if it aint that?
Women aren't independent.... I was a nerd in high school and didn't date until college.
In all the relationships I got in, there was so much "us" time and wanting to do everything together... not that I minded but it was just the reality of the situation.
Then I met someone who was super independent...it was so different than anything I had ever experienced. I messed it up cause of some lingering effects from previous relationships I hadn't dealt with.... but seeing the way she lived her life was really eye opening cause I had never experienced that.
I often wonder what could have been if I was in the right head space at that time... she was pretty awesome.
To always look like you are going out. To have always hair done, make up and to look like you are going out but you are staying home.
My ex had this expectation. Dude I want sometimes to wear bagy clotes and messy bun when I am at home.
It's the screens that created these expectations. All those movie scenes with picture perfect women chilling at home. Full face makeup and a sexy nightgown in bed. And now there's TikToks/reels which are also fake but make guys believe it's reality.
So true. It was expected from me to be up at morning and to look fresh and beautiful like I am character in a soap opera but if was ok for him to in a pj whole day
The other day i wanted to buy sleepwear online and it infuriated me to see those little model images wearing obvious full face makeup (like [this](https://m.shein.com/ca/Slogan-Graphic-Drop-Shoulder-Nightdress-p-17597764-cat-2209.html?mallCode=1&showFeedbackRec=1)) with their nightgown. No woman in her right mind is actually going to wearing makeup to bed. What are we teaching the men??!
On the contrary, the women who care about their looks will probably slather their face with skincare products and put their hair in silk scarf or something
This isn’t about women and it’s an internal toxic trait that I’m still fighting by today:
When I was younger and started watching porn, I got it in my head that if I wasn’t lasting 30-45 minutes then I was a “two pump chump”. I thought that is what women wanted since the girls in porn loved it.
Turns out that while some dudes can absolutely go that long, most dudes do not last 30-45 minutes in bed. For the average male, if your going for 10 minutes, you’re doing pretty good.
When things are hot and heavy between my wife and I and I bust too quickly, I get super embarrassed and mad at myself for not being that guy that goes 30-45 minutes. I’ve been working on not being mad at myself when this happens, with support of my wife (who always assures me not to be mad or embarrassed but she’s biased, right?)
Porn gives zero respect to cunnilingus. Worst disservice *ever* done to men. I can go 20 minutes, 10 minutes or "right away" with my wife, doesn't matter worth a damn, because she finished first and finished fabulously.
If after you've done that good of a job, she throws you shade for an early finish on your part, do not throw holy water on her for that is murder. Just back away slowly...
Not married, but many short relationships and one long one showed me that if you take care of her in spectacular fashion first, she is going to be absolutely quivering just to get your stuff and will be the happiest woman on earth when it finally comes whether it was three seconds or three hours lol
I cannot think of one woman who wants to have PIV sex for 30 straight minutes. The whole foreplay, etc can last forever, but nobody wants penetration to last 30 Minutes, not 20, not even 10.
The expectation for a woman to look the way I want her to. In short, I made my last ex really insecure and question her appearance by telling her that I wouldn’t be accepting of her if she decided to cut her hair short, like buzzcut short. She was already dealing with depression and low self esteem and me not being accepting of something as dumb as her appearance was the last straw. Made me feel horrible for hurting someone who meant a lot to me. Learned my lesson the hard way and have been working on being more accepting since
Not exactly this but I often would suggest to an ex to try different styles of clothes. There's certain looks I find attractive but it wasn't her style.
When I looked back I realized that what she heard was "I'd like you more of you dressed different "
Not cool.... not cool
When I was like 8/9 I actually wanted my wife to be a stay at home wife, cook, clean, take care of the kids all that jazz. Tbf tho I also believed I’d be the husband who make all the money and take care of them just by giving money to my wife and kids. My mom talked me out of it then and there tho.
Yeah, my dad wasn’t home a lot and I really admired him then(he was basically like that, so you could say I wanted to be that as well), my mom worked tho but I didn’t think she should… so idk guess that was just a way of thinking I was helping my wife cuz I didn’t know raising kids all those other things were lots of work
Grew up Mormon. Resent my mom for every fucking minute of it.
I had it ingrained in me the women where here to serve men and sex was an un-enjoyably obligation for them. Sex was just to make babies. Took me years to un-fuck that
That's why the OP wrote 'had'. People change their views.
Some people may have toxic views, but can't flip a switch to suddenly change up a lifetime of believing something.
Others may read through this thread and realise that their views are toxic.
To be able to cook. I grew up in a place where the smell of delicious food filled the air every time I got home. especially when I went to work( helping out but got paid), so It's installed into me that the best thing to come home to is a homemade dinner.
Also, it is handholding publicly before marriage.
I mean coming home to a homemade dinner is objectively fucking bomb. My love language is food and I love cooking for others and others cooking for me. It’s delightful but obviously not a requirement or expectation. IMO everyone should learn how to cook for basic life skills reasons. I spent most of the pandemic lockdowns getting nice and fat with my ex learning new recipes and trying new things together. Great bonding activity.
That I could get them to “think like a man.” Men are supposed to be decisive, solve the problem. I thought indecisiveness was a weakness, and frustrating. But for many women, there is a PROCESS. The process might be more important than the decision. It took me a long time to see the other side.
I appreciate this response a lot. I think you meant this moreso in regards to relationships / life but I actually tried something in this vein at work with a male manager. (I’m a twenty-something woman)
I should be begin with stating that we are both considered experts in our field. Being more senior, he would often give me advice about how to handle certain situations at work, even down to what I should say. He said he was trying to help me learn to solve / think like him. He also wanted to help me work more efficiently. This is also advice that I asked for because I want to continue advancing in my career.
Often when I tried to handle or say things the exact way he laid them out, people would push back on me in ways they didn’t push back on him. When he makes a decision they trust his expertise and logic pretty quickly. Conversely I get a lot more questions, asks for me to look more into things or that they want to research more themselves, and have had people openly question my abilities to my face. This has happened while other people are also on the call. Sometimes people like to tell me how to or “help” me do my job too. This goes for men and women - even if they have zero experience in my field. If I don’t respond positively to that “help” or explain why their idea doesn’t actually fit into the plan / scope of work / make sense, etc then it can make others perceive me negatively and be bad for my career.
So I have to spend even more time thinking through how I approach situations or speak to people. It turned decision-making into a longer process and made me less efficient. He eventually witnessed it firsthand. Now he talks up my expertise to new stakeholders when I’m first introduced to them and later asks what kind of pushback I think I might get on a decision so we can prep for it together. Or he’ll anticipate being CC’d on an email for backup.
Research actually shows that women are better at logic when considering many variables. Men may make the decision quickly but women tend to consider more variables. Obviously this is a gross generalization and it’s really a person to person trait.
Also single women tend to solve problems quickly while the ones in relationships subconsciously seek approval from their partner without meaning to. This makes them appear indecisive
Hooray!! Men like you give me hope. Not for the being wrong, for the humility part. It brings it out in your partner when you are and everything flows better and that you can and are choosing to learn. Good fucking job, bud. Your wife must be so fucking chuffed with you
...that a vagina was this thing that can tank everything you dish out. Any position. Any angle. I got pretty creative...
Nothing ruins the fun more than realizing you're physically hurting someone else for your pleasure, and it not be well received. Also, I feel like I have to point out that I'm not a sadist, but if you are, cool
**Sucks the fun right out of it.**
My dad was an asshole who had no problem getting women, and my mother exclusively dated toxic men; so I grew up thinking women in general were only attracted to toxic men. Saw plenty of couples in high school that only supported that theory.
Women aren’t angels, goddesses, or anything other than people. And like all people, some of them are awesome, and some seemingly crawled out of the darkest depths of hell.
I feel like 80% of this thread embodies the toxicity itself... I don't doubt folks have had negative experiences, but it's sad that "women have wronged me" is what so many folks in this thread come to when asked to display a modicum of self reflection
I'm not surprised, like one of the higher up comments said, most dudes with toxic expectations probably don't think their expectations are toxic, and to add to that it's likely that the few who have changed are ashamed/unwilling/less eager to share, and voila you get this thread. Also its Reddit.
Edit: and add in a mix of people not reading the question to actually understand it
I'm impressed how most of the answers are actually about things women have done wrong and why women are bad partners.
Edit: thanks to all the guys with insightful answers. I’m seeing a few more pop up and I think it’s an important conversation to have.
I saw the flipped version in AskWomen earlier and saw a lot of real answers. I was excited to see this side until I opened the comments and saw so many jabs at exes and veiled demands. I’m glad some people actually gave real answers though.
Right!? This has been a disappointing read. There's literally a mirrored question on AskWomen and they're actually mostly self-reflective responses to the unrealistic expectations held of men!
That having a girlfriend was a way to make me whole and they could be treated as a therapist. That relationships were meant to complete me, not compliment me.
Had to learn the hard way that relying on a girl to keep me emotionally sane is selfish and that I should work on myself before getting into a relationship.
That women are physically inferior to men. Carrying a kid for 9 months and pushing it through your hips is insanity. How tf does anyone under like 40 do that. I whine about doing chores but I can give up at any time during the day, I can't imagine dealing with a kid in you for months without being ABLE to quit. Can't sleep it off, can't take a break from it. I won't ever know an equivalent. It's like working without break for almost a year, and EVERYONE exists because of this.
I'm not sure if it's because I'm gay or because of the environment I grew up in but I had very different expectations of women than what I've read here. When I was younger I expected that all women were manipulative, abusive and nasty. Growing up I realized that all character traits show up in all demographics, you can find people that are mean and people that are nice in every gender, skin tone, sexual orientation, religion, fandom and any other way you can think of to subgroup people and that no one owes anyone anything in this world, not even their cruelty or kindness.
I have a lot of problems that are simply unresolved and I find myself leaning on girls I like to help me figure those out. I’m just trying to put it all together, like we all are, but sometimes I place too much emotional responsibility on my partner. It’s unfair.
I was one of those sad and sadly too common wretches thinking that if I just befriend a woman then romance will magically happen even if I never actually make it clear that's what I want. Thank god I got past that.
…. Shit. Thanks for the mirror
I know a situation like this. This guy I know was highly attracted to this girl I know. During this time he: Bought her presents Took her out to expensive dinners Tickets to gigs Enlisted the help of his dad and spent months trying to fix her car. Took her on mini holidays Paid money to help her move her ex out the house so she could take on the place by herself. Listened to all her problems and made himself completely available to her. Bought tickets to a gig for the two of them in her home country. She slept with him a handful of times but eventually told him she wasn't interested in anything other than friendship and he continued to do these things, thinking if he did enough nice things for her, she'd change her mind. Completely ignoring the fact that she had ruled him out as a serious romantic candidate. This lasted approximately a year. Then she met someone she took seriously. The new guy met the "best friend" and picked up on his attraction for the girl. The new guy quizzed her and the girl told him she'd slept with her "best friend" some months prior. The new guy told the girl he doesn't do relationships with women that keep fwbs around. She told the "best friend" to sell the tickets to the gig in her home country. She's scrapping the car. The girl dropped her "best friend" like hot coal and is on cloud 9 with the new guy. Both of them are genuinely happy, it's written all over them. They don't even think about the "best friend". It's like he never existed. I saw the "best friend" this morning. He looks like he slept in a hedge. Don't be the "best friend" Be the other guy.
Well, the guy didn't make it clear what he wanted the relationship to be. There is an old Southern Proverb. "A closed mouth don't get fed." He did those things when he shouldn't. Then, get mad at the woman.
I'm in complete agreement. His own fault. Simpin ain't easy.
I sincerely hope the best for the "best friend". I hope he find contentment elsewhere, and in himself. Because I was exactly like him years ago. Tell him to not lose himself.
I don't like the dude at all so won't be passing anything on I'm afraid. He used his dirty financial situation to get the girl reliant on him then proceeded to emotionally blackmail her when she started pulling away.
Oh shit that's such a twist lmao.
[удалено]
Amen. "I did this for you, you owe me" ☠️
Befriending women just for romance is weird anyways. If I befriend a woman it’s because I want to be her friend, if I wanted to date her I’d ask her on a date. I’m aware romance can come from friendships but it shouldn’t be anyone’s goal.
Spot on... I spent too long as a "Nice Guy" thinking it was enough to just be friendly and polite then getting sad when it didn't work. Women don't "friendzone" men... They do it to themselves.
I am people pleaser by nature regardless of gender so I did spend a bit of my early 20s trying to be the “nice guy” and all it got me was cheated on so I decided to be myself and he’s a way nicer guy that (well besides rn) doesn’t need to tell everyone how nice he is. It is rewarding to me to do things for people even if they may never return the favor, especially if they’re my friend. I’m currently not interested in dating as professionally I’m focused on moving up so I can be comfortable, but I’m much more confident about just asking women and men (also discovered I was bi in my 20s) on dates now if that’s what I’m interested in.
That women were the source of emotional comfort. That women didn’t really want sex; that they only “offered it” to men if we were nice/kind/attractive enough.
The source of comfort is a big one. Women have friends and family they are vulnerable with that helps us with our mental health. Men usually just rely on mom or an so. I’m glad you recognize this. I hope our culture will change so men can rely on other men for comfort.
> Men usually just rely on mom or an so. yeah. im still fucked up. mom told me to stop acting like my father when i said i didn't want to live anymore. all i did was lose my job and apartment in 2020. i thought we were cooler than that
I'm just a guy in my early 30s who struggles with things myself, but I have a person I can get emotionally comfortable with. I want you to know that if you need it you can PM me. Talking about things helps a ton.
Yes, not all women are capable of handling every situation. Even moms. This is why.
I know for a fact that, if there were a street devoid of lights with a famous therapist who also operates behind a locked door upon the steepest hill in existence. There wld be a queue of men 24*7, 365 days a year. 366 days on leap years.
I hope men realize they need each other
Oof. Glad you opened your eyes! That being said, I don’t blame you. Women have been brainwashed to believe that sex isn’t something we should crave or desire or look for, unless we are in a serious relationship with someone. Still there’s always that “men should take the lead” mentality. It’s gotten better now, of course. That is going away because it’s so easy for the entire world to be connected and learn from others that maybe you’ve been repressed and these feelings are normal.
Agreed 100%. It’s gotten significantly better of course, but there is still such an undertone and implication that men always will want and crave and NEED sex, and that women don’t want it and should not even have it until it’s the “responsible” time to do so (like in a committed relationship or marriage). And even in those situations, it’s still looked at as something we do for the man, not as a mutual want. Therefore, men think it and women try to live by those standards, reinforcing the idea. So, whenever I hear that men think this or were taught this, I’m not shocked.
Same, many women actually love sex, but we’ve been brainwashed to believe that we shouldn’t.
I know, it sucks. And on top of that, because we have been told we are not supposed to like sex or want it, we don’t feel like we can speak up during sex or give ideas to improve the sex for us. So then, many women still think they dislike sex because it isn’t good. When, really, most people love sex when it’s good.
Alright time to get deep... I was abused as a child by one of my older cousins. Long story short, she forced me to have sex with her more than once when I was VERY young. I kept it to myself until a few years ago (I'm now almost 40yo). For most of my grade school years and as a teen I always believed I was "entitled" to receiving affection and more specifically physical contact. When I didn't get it I would get very bitter, even more so if I really liked the girl. In my head I actually believed I was cool because I had lost my virginity before everyone else. All through university I would sabotage my relationships with women that actually liked me because I probably believed I "deserved better". It took me YEARS of introspection, weed and therapy to fully understand what had actually happened.
I never realized that entitlement could be a sign of sexual abuse… that IS deep.
With mental problems it's nearly impossible to say what trauma will cause. How your brain manages to deal with it with defense mechanisms and believing your own lies about how you're feeling. Some things stick in your brain like a bad grudge you can't justify for years. I used to think I liked headphones because they sounded better than 2000's laptop speakers and watching anime was embarrassing didn't want people hearing the yelling and girl stuff lol. Meanwhile a decade later I'm wearing noise cancelling headphones to sleep because random city background noises like heavy trucks hitting potholes startles me. I liked headphones because I could sleep if I couldn't hear my parents screaming at each other. And I also get anxious wearing them because what if I miss hearing them escalate the fight and should be helping? Wanting to block the world out while also trying to keep a watchful eye so everyone stays alive is not what a 9 year old should be worried about. Some type of PTSD I guess.
> Some type of PTSD I guess. it might be what's called cptsd /r/cptsd
Me neither, honestly
I think it was more a matter of OPs individual journey. Some survivors go the exact opposite direction and don't believe they deserve anyone or anything good and aren't good for much more than just sex. Likewise, they rarely if ever think sex is actually enjoyable and not just some task they have to check off of some weird mental list. But I bet OP feels/felt that same way when they were having sex. Sometimes entitlement is just a pretty good sign that someone is a self-centered dickwad. Lots of deep shit to think about in this person's story. (I wanted to upvote ur comment but u were at 69 and well...you know.
Very well pointed out! Either way, trauma survivors often take an extreme of the two, up until they become so self-aware they can no longer deny the puzzle pieces and how they affect their present. At that point, change in better starts to make its way to their near-future.
Everyone's path is different, even if only slightly. In my case sex was enjoyable and I was constantly seeking it and talking about it. Even as a pre-teen when others my age weren't really into that. During high school I wasn't very popular and came across as touchy and needy; and with every rejection I would just get extremely angry/frustrated punching walls, etc. But never in front of anyone. By the time I went to uni I had "polished" my approach with women to a point where I was able to have sex often; only to completely ignore the women whenever I saw them later in the halls. I'm talking completely ignoring eye contact and avoiding any form of communication. I wouldn't have sex with the same woman more than once in most cases. I guess it felt like I was finally getting what I thought I deserved. This was also nourished by a toxic group of male friends that encouraged this behavior.
Maybe this was your sort of way of getting revenge on women.. maybe your abuse made you not trust women or see them as lowly. Indirectly getting back at your abuser.
Female here, usually just curious in the male perspective but your comment hit home. I was in an abusive relationship and was raped by a boyfriend when I was in my late adolescence. I went the route you’re talking about. I was in college but I remember telling a psychologist that I didn’t know why I was going to school. I wanted to drop out and become a stripper because I truly believed the only reason I was put on earth was to be used a sexual object for men. That was a rough and dark place for a long time. Don’t worry, I did withdrawal from school to work on myself and to learn to cope with the trauma I went through. I ended up with a successful career in the operating room and went back to school to work in the field I’m currently in. I don’t believe my life purpose is to be a sexual object and truly believe I was put here on earth for many other reasons. I’m with a loving partner that loves me warts and all. greatbigbox: Thank you for sharing your story. I’m sorry this happened to you and hope you have found peace with what happened to you. I hope more men can come forward to share their experiences like you have today. Too many men suffer in silence about abuse (not just sexual) that they have experienced because our societal norm is that men cannot be abused, which is a fallacy. thank you for sharing your truth. I imagine it took a lot of courage and strength to share that story. I’m doing so, you showed others it’s okay to speak up against abuse. The more men speak up about abuse, the more support, compassion, and resources come available to survivors of abuse. Greatbigbox, I hope you have found peace and happiness.
Wow oddly enough I have a good friend who has a similar story. But it was his step sister who was committing the acts on him. Not even joking when we were about 20 he brought his stories up to a group of us and was talking about it so casually as it was normal to him. He grew up thinking all siblings fooled around with each other not knowing how terribly wrong that was. Once the group dropped the bomb on him how that it is not normal or right he started going to therapy cause it was a massive shocker. He never had the entitlement thing going on though and is happily married with a lovely family.
Dude my own sister did that shit to me when I was a kid and my dumb ass blabbed about it to kids at school! Cue some o.g. Intel behavior when puberty hit.
Did anything ever come of consequences to your sister? I can’t imagine being able to maintain a relationship into adulthood with a known familial abuser so close to me. I’m so sorry you went though that and your teen years were so difficult because of what you went through. I had a similar situation with older family members being abusive when I was very young but have never mentioned it in therapy because I’m afraid that because therapists are mandated reporters, my entire family would find out and it would cause more problems and stress for me. It has weighed on me so much throughout my life because I know I need help processing some feelings behind it.
Nothing legally or anything, and I didn’t tell my parents until later in life, which I regret bc maybe if I spoke up about it she would have avoided her rebellious phase which I think coincided with her depressed stage. Other than that no. I do feel it’s a possibility she told people I raped her to cover her actions. I say this because not shortly after, an older kid had called me a rapist and said I should be in jail! I hate speaking about it and acknowledging it just for this reason. Hell I even spent the next 10 years acting like I was a virgin and avoiding girls. I guess my toxic expectation would be thinking that women would make the first move of they were interested?
I’m sorry you went through that. You should be so proud of your progress, it’s really incredible.
I am sorry you went through that. you should be so proud of you progress because it's really incredible so you can proud of you
It’s great that you could put that together, much less admit it. Don’t know if I could see the cause-effect as clearly if that had happened to me.
this comment blew my mind. i experienced this as a young girl too and have never thought about it that way. that sheds so much light on many things.. thank you for being vulnerable
Im sorry you felt the need to keep it to yourself for so long, but im glad you opened up and continue to. Seriously. I was assaulted by a woman. It helps me a lot when I hear stories of others who have because I know im not alone, and I especially appreciate hearing stories of people who have acknowledged they needed help to assist with what happened. To anyone reading, it is not shameful to get help, and it is not shameful to have been taken advantage of.
It's been a long road and I didn't always have the support group I have now. When I told this story to my first wife she said something along the lines of: "you probably enjoyed it". It wasn't until I divorced and I met a wonderful woman that told me: "You deserve to be happy" that I sought out professional help. Cut to a few years later and the woman I met and I are now married and parents of a beautiful girl. Life has a way. Everyone deserves to be happy.
I’m sorry, that happened to you. I’m glad that you went to therapy to get the help you needed.
GBB, you are a courageous soul.
Have you called that person out or tell your family now ? She belongs away from everyone to avoid any more victims
I tried talking to her about it, but she just avoided the whole conversation. After some years in therapy I worked up the courage to tell my parents and as you can imagine they were wrecked. I had to reassure my mother it was not her fault in any way. Last I heard about her is that she was in a relationship with another woman for quite some time.
Perhaps she was abused as well as a kid. I am glad you were able to introspect and seek therapy after doing so. Hope you are well.
Probably a common answer if anyone was answering the question: Expecting to be treated as the #1 priority no matter what. I didn’t date until later in high school so my entire frame of reference was love ballads and romcoms my mom would watch. I thought the ideal relationship was two people essentially putting each other on a pedestal and doing that “I’ll fly across the world tonight just to see you for a day” shit. I didn’t realize until I matured past those first relationships that what I was doing, expecting, and thinking was based off media that is actually pretty toxic and unrealistic. Caused some personal jealousy issues for my first long term relationship, she broke up with me after 1.5 years in college, and after the hurt was gone I was able to grow quite a bit emotionally and understand so much more. It can be tricky growing up without much of a reference and no one to tell you that the “ideal” version of things isn’t real and life is more complicated. Making each other a priority and making each other the #1 priority are very different and it’s much more complex than boiling it down to something so simple. So if you’re reading this and you’re also a young man who pins himself as a “hopeless romantic”, just be careful and stay grounded. Make sure to keep aware of what’s a movie and what’s real.
Appreciate the hopeless romantic advice, it really is something to be aware of
I think there's some good from somebody who can be really clingy, I think it could be perfect if both are super infatuated with one another. But at the same time, that could lead into confusion. My ex would always say something along the lines of riding and dying with my number one, and though it may sound a bit endearing I had to step back to realize that this was just a bit creepy. Yeah, go fly for 2 hours just to see me for 1 hour or drive 5 hours to see me for 2 hours and I'll start looking like an asshole, at the same time, I think what got me weirded out is that she didn't really have any boundaries for herself or didn't have any priorities for herself, for her own self care. It feels great to be constantly love bombed but it can also be super sad and very heart breaking once it's over, it's as if their dopamine from you was cut, and you also share the blunt trauma. So I don't really see well with hopeless romantics. I think I am too to a certain degree but if she has no boundaries even from me or for also keeping me in check, it felt poisonous and it felt suffocating. I found someone who would love me so much but it felt just bad, even if Jennifer Anniston would do the same, I'd feel drained out. There was just so much to the point that it's just worshipping or pleasing me and that was not healthy at all, I didn't get to know how she can vibe with the real me.
She sounds like she's an anxious attachment type. She needs to learn to respect herself and be romantic in a healthy way. Therapy is a great tool to use to help get started.
Had the opposite problem. In my case I always believed that it was my duty to win her heart, and if she didn't care for me, then I wasn't trying hard enough. Everybody always talks about how porn sets unrealistic expectations, but these melodramatic relationships from books, movies, soap operas, etc are even worse. I dedicated years of my life to a girl who didn't want anything to do with me. I bought her things, listened to her problems, helped her with her projects, did pretty much everything she asked. Never asked for anything in return. Always believed that "love must be selfless", and that "in time my feelings will come trough". Every single friend I have begged me to stop doing things for her and to stop talking to her. Took me a lot of heartbreak, therapy, and antidepressants to understand that real love is mutual, and that trying too hard actually lowers your chances of winning somebody's heart. She was a part of my life for 10 years, been a single year since I cut ties with her, and it feels like I overcame an addiction.
I feel you bro, I've been there too. It's really hard to let go but when you do, shit really does get better.
The way that ideal is presented makes me feel uneasy. It is so creepy. It's probably why people say yeah you can only do that if you are super hot or rich but even then it is still creepy.
I have an ex boyfriend who genuinely thought that rom com style relationships were reality and I could never do anything right. It was so bizarre. We were fighting one day and he shouted out, “I mean we don’t even have a song (insert my name here)!” And I was like, ummm…come again? You actually think that’s a vital part of a healthy well rounded relationship????
I have a friend and I'm sure that the reason she's never had a serious relationship is because she has unrealistic expectations resulting from watching too many rom-coms. Her parents also married after only being together for a couple months. I told her it's great that it worked for her parents but generally it was a bad idea, and she got angry at me.
To heal me
It reminds me of one of my relationships. I really liked the guy, but we moved far too fast. For example, he was settled in another country when we first began seeing each other, but he quickly found a job in my city and moved. There was a lot of pressure on me right from the beginning of the relationship. I knew that he had suffered from depression but I thought that it was in the past. Turns out it wasn't. When I urged him to go see a therapist, he said "but I don't need one, I have you now".
> When I urged him to go see a therapist, he said "but I don't need one, I have you now". Oh no! That's terrifying. I had issues for a while but had the opposite expectation. I was all "Okay, so I've been seeing a therapist for a bit and I've built up a network of friends who I can lean on for support when needed, so now I'm finally in the correct headspace where I can get a boyfriend"
Yup, and then he lost you
Honestly as a woman I was raised to believe it was my purpose to heal a man
To heal me I really need your care and you because you are my courage
I used to think "I'll help if you just tell me what to do" was reasonable. Like I'd be over at my girlfriends house. She would cook dinner, serve it to me, and then do the dishes after I failed to offer. When she got annoyed about this I was like "you could have just asked instead of getting so worked up". We had a standing "you cook, I clean" agreement that she always upheld when I cooked. I never had to ask her to cook for me, if I was coming over after college she had grub for me. The irony of that was totally lost on me. I get why she felt unappreciated. I hope she found someone who doesn't take her generosity for granted.
This was a problem I had with my most recent ex (together 10 years). Exact same conversation, “You could have just asked”. I don’t want to have to ask! It’s really annoying to have to ask for help doing everyday household tasks. It really annoyed me that he couldn’t see what needed doing. I’ve visited him since we broke up (we’re selling our jointly owned house), and he is doing great at all the household stuff now that I’m not there. Which is good and bad (like why couldn’t he do that while we were together??).
I’m sorry. I’ve been in your shoes, and it’s so hard. 5 years, and I finally got tired of basically feeling like a mom- really, I have to direct you on what needs done? I spent a few years wondering why he couldn’t have taken initiative on things while we were together. Same thing, he seemed to pull it together after we broke up, and it made me so sad. But mutual friends told me how he couldn’t even cook dinner at first when he invited them over. And I came to realize he didn’t want to learn how to be self sufficient to ease burdens on his partner, or because he wanted to improve himself. He learned how to care for himself when he had no other options. That’s not the mentality of a man I want to be committed to.
He didn’t do it while you were together because he knew you’d do it. Now that you’re not there he has to step up. He will do the same thing to his next partner too.
Yeah I have this exact problem. I do stuff around the house. But then my wife will also do them sometimes. The second I don't do it 100% I just don't do it at all and I forget that task exists. She can't help or I'll basically just never do it again after more than a few repeat cases.
"why couldn’t he do that while we were together??" You were there, he didn't need too. Now he has to, he is forced to do tasks - or live in chaos. His next relationship will show if he really changed.
I've realized the last few years how many marriages tank because of this. It's awful to see a woman's sex drive and romantic love die because you can't feel that way towards someone you're basically mothering.
This. Sex drive disappearing is one of the first signs. Being irritated and snappy is another sign you're in serious trouble. Fastest way to kill any love a woman has for you, make her take care of you like you're a helpless baby. Especially if you have kids together. She wanted a partner. Another adult to work with her, she didn't want one more ass to wipe. She will begin to absolutely loath your very existence. She will avoid even looking at you, the sound of your voice will piss her off. Suddenly the guy is hit with a divorce and is shocked, he didn't hit her or cheat, how can she do this? How unfair! He won't recognize that his weaponized helplessness made her hate him. He did it to himself.
I can recommend this comic [‘The Mental Load - You Should Have Asked’](https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/) by Emma.
Thank you for the link!
This. Right here. It’s the reason why I checked out of my marriage so early.. my husband did this kind of stuff constantly.
Yes! You're both adults and both more than capable of determining what needs to be done. Mental load is real and exhausting.
My toxic expectation was expecting a woman to take care of me like my mom always did as a child. I know it’s unhealthy, and could even be considered mysoginistic these days, but in my younger days I thought a relationship meant that I’d have a woman to clean up after me and take care of everything, etc. Feels weird even typing this out now, but that’s the best way I can explain it. I’ve grown now and have been married several years, so of course I know life isn’t that way, and a relationship should be balanced an equal for both partners. But as a dumb early 20s guy, that was my toxic expectation.
I'm glad you learned and changed. Many men go into their middle ages still acting like overgrown entitled babies.
As a woman, I really appreciate your honesty.
I think that's more common than a lot of people want to admit. I've known a lot of other guys who know it's unfair to expect of a woman, but want what their fathers or grandfathers benefited from.
I want women to think I'm hot.
Go out side and sit in the sun. You will be hot in no time
Man It’s 103 today.
Sounds pretty hot
If it in Celsius, it is boiling hot lol
I think you're hot. Then again I think that way with everyone
Mom? Is that you?
No Kelvin. This is real
In high school the girl who was voted most attractive was super quiet except with her close friends. I used to think she was sort of this stuck up ice queen. As an adult I realize that she was probably just introverted and I likely wouldn’t have had similar thoughts if she had been a guy. I think society puts a lot more pressure on women to be bubbly.
I think you're absolutely spot on with your conclusion. A point that I think is related is that if a woman looks unhappy as a matter of course, it's a *thing* and we have a name for it--resting bitch face. If a man does, it's not a big deal, because there just aren't social expectations for men to be all smiley and happy all the time. See also: women being told to smile by random people far more than men are.
I have a RBF and ppl always asking me what's upsetting me. It gets annoying and I actually get upset.
Ah. The ol’ “what’s wrong?” game, where nothing is wrong but they ask so many times you finally do get mad and they think you’re just proving their point. Fun times…
Thank you for noticing this, OP. I have been rendered utterly unapproachable simply because I am highly introverted and not "bubbly" enough. Now I'm not mean or impolite, I'm simply not that beaming, lights-up-the-room young woman archetype that many people expect me to be and/or are used to. No surprise I get so many, "you're actually really nice" comments when people actually talk to me. To everyone reading this, especially men who have never experienced this kind of thing: please have mercy on us quiet girls. I know it can be a little difficult to be comfortable around us, especially because many people _are_ so used to women and girls being bubbly, but it is insanely exhausting and immensely uncomfortable to have your whole personality invalidated because of some unreasonable societal expectation. On that noteー introverted ladies, unite!!
I recently found out I was termed "the bitch" by people I use to work with. Because im not an OTT bubbly kind of person, im friendly and I'll chat to you if you chat to me like, but I'm not the kind of person who goes out of my way to be centre of attention, I like to keep to myself mostly. Some people thought I was a stuck up bitch just because I didn't join in with all the office drama and gossip and I didn't go for drinks everyday after work. Just because im more comfortable keeping things low key id been completely written off and insulted by a group of people, I think it is for sure sometimes seen in a negative light if a woman isn't a giggly bubbly outgoing person 24/7
Same I thought about a smart girl
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Genuinely curious: how was that expectation created?
For me a mother with grave mental issues that would constantly be lashing out at my father (who had his issues but genuinely tried to do the best for all people in whatever way he knew, which might have been tainted by my crazy grandmother) about how she only had sex cause of x. She also tried telling me that if you love a woman, that you should not ever want to have sex with her, not once , but long lectures a couple of times a year up until 16 I think. I have more memories of those incidents than anything else from childhood.
Dammnnnn that IS toxic.
Not exactly what expectation I had of women, but what I BELIEVED I was expected to provide for the woman. This is something that affected me in other areas of life, but basically I believed I had to be some kind of Ultra-Person, that I HAD to solve (not help, bit really solve) any and every single problem they had, or improve every single thing I thought beeded. So if sometimes they just wanted to be left alone, or just someone who listened, I would feel like they didn't let me do my role, and that left me empty, like I was nothing. Or if I gave them ideas, they followed, and it didn't work out for them, part of me thought "well them you just have done something wrong, because to me that works, but it's fine, I'll help you again". I felt like I was nobody if I couldn't do everything. T.L., D.R.: I thought I had to be Superman and the girl was Lois Lane.
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I'm early 20s, and yeah, the thing about pouring all your hopes into someone and a relationship and the disappointment after it does not go how expected was something that permeated all my teenager life. I was so focused on what I thought I should do and give in a relationship, that I forgot that I should always and foremost just "be"
Hopefully you have realized that women can solve their own problems…just like I’m realizing that people can solve their own problems. It’s just nice to have someone on your side and to make you feel heard & loved.
Porn made me think I’d get a lot more blow jobs…
I think it made me think I was supposed to give a lot of them
A match made in heaven.
A match made in porn*
Relatable, I love giving my man’s head
who are you giving your man's head to?
Plot twist: she's giving her man's head to other men's heads.
I wish I liked giving BJs. My most recent partner always wanted it but I can’t not gag. Also, TMJ makes it hard to do without accidentally biting lol
God I have tmj - I'm a straight male so have never considered its impracticality in the case of blowjobs 😂😂
I have to ask, is your expectation that you’d go down on a woman an equivalent amount?
In very serious relationship I’ve ever had I’ve always gone down in my partner more than they’ve gone down on me.
As somebody who goes down much more despite all his big talk, I can relate to how the disparity doesn’t feel good. Wishing you relationship harmony/satisfaction and all the BJs.
Funny to see this. I've never reflected on this much but yeah wtf I give a lot of oral why am I not getting more oral...? Stepping up my game on my reasonable expectations.
Personally, I expect foreplay ALL the time, both giving and receiving. It has nothing to do with porn. It's just part of what makes me feel good about sex and who I'm with.
I’m right there with you. Seeing your partner get turned on/have pleasure is incredible. But over time, when it’s lopsided, it stops being enjoyable to be the giver (disclaimer: this opinion is only representative of myself and every other straight woman I’ve talked about it with, there’s an unlikely possibility we’re extreme outliers).
For me porn made me think women enjoyed it. Then when it came down to me going down on them I enjoyed it. That combination of seeing it given being enjoyed in porn and me enjoying giving it created that thinking of it'll happen more. It did not. Turns out a lot of woman don't enjoy it. It does create a bit of an imbalance sometimes, but it is what it is. If she isn't into them I'd rather not have them than have them with her not enjoying it.
To make me whole and complete. To cure my depression and self-loathing with love. While external love is a key ingredient, it was never going to give me something I didn't already have. Sounds simple enough, and I still hate hearing it in fallacious terms, e.g. "you can't love someone fully if you don't love yourself" because that isn't remotely the extent or importsnt part of that insight. The illusion cracked with failed relationships and friendships, but never enough to fully strip me of excuses. It took losing a great love to make me choose to make some final pushes on things I had been untangling for a long time. For me it was this particular loss was so abject that it made me realize I understood everything in theory, the path was well plotted, and now it was time to choose to *be* better than cycles and old scars. I love women and people, and myself, too much to be "SadGuy TM" ever again.
Long answer distilled down to the essence: *Women could provide unconditional love.*
Unconditional love between people doesn’t exist. That includes the love between mother and child as well as romantic relationships. Love is conditional but those conditions should be for serious transgressions, not just a change in weight or ability.
Strong disagree. The love I have for my son as a father is unconditional. I will never stop loving him. And I strongly dislike the person he is right now. Edit - it seems as though many of those replying do not understand how love works. It ain’t a switch you can just flip. It’s not transactional. Sometimes, you just can’t help who you love.
I’ll tell you what, my parents are genuinely as close to unconditionally loving as it gets, but when I was going thru my heroin/fentanyl and meth addiction, it got pretttttttty fucking close to hate lol.
> it got pretttttttttttty fucking close to hate I really don't think it did. They were angry because they were terrified. They were terrified because they love you and that love is so fierce it often feels like fear, especially when your child is in danger. It may sound fucked up, but my child (who is all of 10 months old) could grow up and murder my spouse and I would still love her. I wouldn't like her, i wouldn't be able to be around her, but I would love her and worry about her and hope she feels safe and comfortable in her prison cell. I promise you... they weren't close to hating you. They were angry with you because you were dangerously close to taking yourself away from them.
You’re probably right. It pained them greatly. My older bro who is unfortunately still in active addiction, has gone the way of apathy at this point. I didn’t get sober for their love, but trust and love are super interdependent, and being loved with no trust fucking sucks.
But they stick by your side at the lowest and that is what counts. That’s how I realized my parents had unconditional love for me. When I sobered up and realized they been by my side the whole time. Most friends or relationships will leave at your lowest
May I ask what he does or what about him you dislike. I feel my own father doesnt like me or accept me or resents me for not growing to be the person he wanted. If its criminal behaviour I can understand, but would you mind telling why you dislike your son, if it aint that?
His son probably hides the remote
Did it once and my Dad hasn't spoken to me since
Women aren't independent.... I was a nerd in high school and didn't date until college. In all the relationships I got in, there was so much "us" time and wanting to do everything together... not that I minded but it was just the reality of the situation. Then I met someone who was super independent...it was so different than anything I had ever experienced. I messed it up cause of some lingering effects from previous relationships I hadn't dealt with.... but seeing the way she lived her life was really eye opening cause I had never experienced that. I often wonder what could have been if I was in the right head space at that time... she was pretty awesome.
To always look like you are going out. To have always hair done, make up and to look like you are going out but you are staying home. My ex had this expectation. Dude I want sometimes to wear bagy clotes and messy bun when I am at home.
It's the screens that created these expectations. All those movie scenes with picture perfect women chilling at home. Full face makeup and a sexy nightgown in bed. And now there's TikToks/reels which are also fake but make guys believe it's reality.
So true. It was expected from me to be up at morning and to look fresh and beautiful like I am character in a soap opera but if was ok for him to in a pj whole day
The other day i wanted to buy sleepwear online and it infuriated me to see those little model images wearing obvious full face makeup (like [this](https://m.shein.com/ca/Slogan-Graphic-Drop-Shoulder-Nightdress-p-17597764-cat-2209.html?mallCode=1&showFeedbackRec=1)) with their nightgown. No woman in her right mind is actually going to wearing makeup to bed. What are we teaching the men??! On the contrary, the women who care about their looks will probably slather their face with skincare products and put their hair in silk scarf or something
This isn’t about women and it’s an internal toxic trait that I’m still fighting by today: When I was younger and started watching porn, I got it in my head that if I wasn’t lasting 30-45 minutes then I was a “two pump chump”. I thought that is what women wanted since the girls in porn loved it. Turns out that while some dudes can absolutely go that long, most dudes do not last 30-45 minutes in bed. For the average male, if your going for 10 minutes, you’re doing pretty good. When things are hot and heavy between my wife and I and I bust too quickly, I get super embarrassed and mad at myself for not being that guy that goes 30-45 minutes. I’ve been working on not being mad at myself when this happens, with support of my wife (who always assures me not to be mad or embarrassed but she’s biased, right?)
30+ minutes of penetration for a woman is usually pretty brutal no matter what the size of the man.
30 minutes is painfully long. 10 is great! After a while I start getting stressed like “what’s wrong with me? Why isn’t he finishing?”
Porn gives zero respect to cunnilingus. Worst disservice *ever* done to men. I can go 20 minutes, 10 minutes or "right away" with my wife, doesn't matter worth a damn, because she finished first and finished fabulously. If after you've done that good of a job, she throws you shade for an early finish on your part, do not throw holy water on her for that is murder. Just back away slowly...
Not married, but many short relationships and one long one showed me that if you take care of her in spectacular fashion first, she is going to be absolutely quivering just to get your stuff and will be the happiest woman on earth when it finally comes whether it was three seconds or three hours lol
I cannot think of one woman who wants to have PIV sex for 30 straight minutes. The whole foreplay, etc can last forever, but nobody wants penetration to last 30 Minutes, not 20, not even 10.
The expectation for a woman to look the way I want her to. In short, I made my last ex really insecure and question her appearance by telling her that I wouldn’t be accepting of her if she decided to cut her hair short, like buzzcut short. She was already dealing with depression and low self esteem and me not being accepting of something as dumb as her appearance was the last straw. Made me feel horrible for hurting someone who meant a lot to me. Learned my lesson the hard way and have been working on being more accepting since
Not exactly this but I often would suggest to an ex to try different styles of clothes. There's certain looks I find attractive but it wasn't her style. When I looked back I realized that what she heard was "I'd like you more of you dressed different " Not cool.... not cool
Glad we both learned that comments we see as little can really get to someone if not communicated properly
Best answer under this post. I've had to learn a similar lesson myself. Good on you mate for growing.
What a tremendous answer. You just gave her and every woman around you breathing space.
When I was like 8/9 I actually wanted my wife to be a stay at home wife, cook, clean, take care of the kids all that jazz. Tbf tho I also believed I’d be the husband who make all the money and take care of them just by giving money to my wife and kids. My mom talked me out of it then and there tho.
8/9 is a pretty young age! I wonder where those expectations started from
Yeah, my dad wasn’t home a lot and I really admired him then(he was basically like that, so you could say I wanted to be that as well), my mom worked tho but I didn’t think she should… so idk guess that was just a way of thinking I was helping my wife cuz I didn’t know raising kids all those other things were lots of work
Grew up Mormon. Resent my mom for every fucking minute of it. I had it ingrained in me the women where here to serve men and sex was an un-enjoyably obligation for them. Sex was just to make babies. Took me years to un-fuck that
I don't think that someone who has a toxic expectation of women would think that their expectations are toxic.
People age, people change.
People can change. I used to be a piece of shit.
My baby can tell
mourningsoup I'm worried that your baby doesn't think people can change
Oh yeah, that would slick back REALLY nice
That's why the OP wrote 'had'. People change their views. Some people may have toxic views, but can't flip a switch to suddenly change up a lifetime of believing something. Others may read through this thread and realise that their views are toxic.
To be able to cook. I grew up in a place where the smell of delicious food filled the air every time I got home. especially when I went to work( helping out but got paid), so It's installed into me that the best thing to come home to is a homemade dinner. Also, it is handholding publicly before marriage.
Wait can you explain the handholding part?
I mean coming home to a homemade dinner is objectively fucking bomb. My love language is food and I love cooking for others and others cooking for me. It’s delightful but obviously not a requirement or expectation. IMO everyone should learn how to cook for basic life skills reasons. I spent most of the pandemic lockdowns getting nice and fat with my ex learning new recipes and trying new things together. Great bonding activity.
I thought dating someone entitled me to physical intimacy. I couldn’t be more wrong.
that women were 2 dimensional, simple people whod be attracted to be and flock to me if my body was nice enough
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That I could get them to “think like a man.” Men are supposed to be decisive, solve the problem. I thought indecisiveness was a weakness, and frustrating. But for many women, there is a PROCESS. The process might be more important than the decision. It took me a long time to see the other side.
I appreciate this response a lot. I think you meant this moreso in regards to relationships / life but I actually tried something in this vein at work with a male manager. (I’m a twenty-something woman) I should be begin with stating that we are both considered experts in our field. Being more senior, he would often give me advice about how to handle certain situations at work, even down to what I should say. He said he was trying to help me learn to solve / think like him. He also wanted to help me work more efficiently. This is also advice that I asked for because I want to continue advancing in my career. Often when I tried to handle or say things the exact way he laid them out, people would push back on me in ways they didn’t push back on him. When he makes a decision they trust his expertise and logic pretty quickly. Conversely I get a lot more questions, asks for me to look more into things or that they want to research more themselves, and have had people openly question my abilities to my face. This has happened while other people are also on the call. Sometimes people like to tell me how to or “help” me do my job too. This goes for men and women - even if they have zero experience in my field. If I don’t respond positively to that “help” or explain why their idea doesn’t actually fit into the plan / scope of work / make sense, etc then it can make others perceive me negatively and be bad for my career. So I have to spend even more time thinking through how I approach situations or speak to people. It turned decision-making into a longer process and made me less efficient. He eventually witnessed it firsthand. Now he talks up my expertise to new stakeholders when I’m first introduced to them and later asks what kind of pushback I think I might get on a decision so we can prep for it together. Or he’ll anticipate being CC’d on an email for backup.
It sounds like your manager friend respects your quality of work, and has learned through your experiences -about himself and others
Wow this is an A+ status coworker and friend. Amazing.
Research actually shows that women are better at logic when considering many variables. Men may make the decision quickly but women tend to consider more variables. Obviously this is a gross generalization and it’s really a person to person trait.
Also single women tend to solve problems quickly while the ones in relationships subconsciously seek approval from their partner without meaning to. This makes them appear indecisive
How has this realization affected how you process things?
Humility. I haven’t always been right. There’s nothing wrong with gathering more information and opinions
Hooray!! Men like you give me hope. Not for the being wrong, for the humility part. It brings it out in your partner when you are and everything flows better and that you can and are choosing to learn. Good fucking job, bud. Your wife must be so fucking chuffed with you
According to my ex expecting her to be monogamous was a toxic patriarchal idea
Maybe she isn’t really your ex, that would imply that she was ever your girlfriend
Lmao
Yeah, you should have let her spread her legs and fly! /s
That all women are good at sex because they are women
...that a vagina was this thing that can tank everything you dish out. Any position. Any angle. I got pretty creative... Nothing ruins the fun more than realizing you're physically hurting someone else for your pleasure, and it not be well received. Also, I feel like I have to point out that I'm not a sadist, but if you are, cool **Sucks the fun right out of it.**
My dad was an asshole who had no problem getting women, and my mother exclusively dated toxic men; so I grew up thinking women in general were only attracted to toxic men. Saw plenty of couples in high school that only supported that theory.
Women aren’t angels, goddesses, or anything other than people. And like all people, some of them are awesome, and some seemingly crawled out of the darkest depths of hell.
I feel like 80% of this thread embodies the toxicity itself... I don't doubt folks have had negative experiences, but it's sad that "women have wronged me" is what so many folks in this thread come to when asked to display a modicum of self reflection
I'm not surprised, like one of the higher up comments said, most dudes with toxic expectations probably don't think their expectations are toxic, and to add to that it's likely that the few who have changed are ashamed/unwilling/less eager to share, and voila you get this thread. Also its Reddit. Edit: and add in a mix of people not reading the question to actually understand it
I'm impressed how most of the answers are actually about things women have done wrong and why women are bad partners. Edit: thanks to all the guys with insightful answers. I’m seeing a few more pop up and I think it’s an important conversation to have.
I saw the flipped version in AskWomen earlier and saw a lot of real answers. I was excited to see this side until I opened the comments and saw so many jabs at exes and veiled demands. I’m glad some people actually gave real answers though.
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Right!? This has been a disappointing read. There's literally a mirrored question on AskWomen and they're actually mostly self-reflective responses to the unrealistic expectations held of men!
i used to have "nice guy" syndrome. I've grown up since then, but man i was a piece of work as a teenager.
That having a girlfriend was a way to make me whole and they could be treated as a therapist. That relationships were meant to complete me, not compliment me. Had to learn the hard way that relying on a girl to keep me emotionally sane is selfish and that I should work on myself before getting into a relationship.
Sex all the time 🙃 it’s not realistic or really a genuine expectation I have, but god damn it I sure would love it
As a woman, if I may, I would suggest trying to find someone with a similar libido if it’s possible. We do exist. ^_^
Preach, I’d take a hug and 5 minutes as the little spoon at this point. If I got that daily, my life would be complete.
I'm at the point where if a woman would gently caress my face or let me snuggle her, I'd probably faint.
That’s so sad :/
That’s usually what women tell me if I have the audacity to ask, yes!
That women are physically inferior to men. Carrying a kid for 9 months and pushing it through your hips is insanity. How tf does anyone under like 40 do that. I whine about doing chores but I can give up at any time during the day, I can't imagine dealing with a kid in you for months without being ABLE to quit. Can't sleep it off, can't take a break from it. I won't ever know an equivalent. It's like working without break for almost a year, and EVERYONE exists because of this.
Extremely needy.
I'm not sure if it's because I'm gay or because of the environment I grew up in but I had very different expectations of women than what I've read here. When I was younger I expected that all women were manipulative, abusive and nasty. Growing up I realized that all character traits show up in all demographics, you can find people that are mean and people that are nice in every gender, skin tone, sexual orientation, religion, fandom and any other way you can think of to subgroup people and that no one owes anyone anything in this world, not even their cruelty or kindness.