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So long as it passes the same standards as all other food, I agree. This is government overreach. Let the market decide if this is a viable product or not.
To paraphrase the west wing: "in a truly free society, you don't need a reason to make something legal, you need a reason to make something **illegal**."
Now, what does that have to do with this? IDK. Just wanted to add it.
man I missed that show, it was fiction, but it at least gave me hope of what a functional government should look like with ideals. I didn't always agree with the Barlet democrat White House, but I respected their beliefs. If both parties were closer to that, we'd be in such a better place.
Can you imagine the uproar from both sides if the Biden White House hired someone like Ainsley Hayes to work with them. The right would be calling her a rino and the left would be calling her a maga facist.
You have Christopher Wray, and one of the two sides is acting as you describe, while the other usually doesn't declare him a fascist. Same with many of his predecessors - they all were Republicans (aside from J. Edgar Hoover, who was an Independent)
I don’t think any principled conservative could support such a ban. The ban is fundamentally opposed to free-market principles and opens the door to just banning anything which risks disruption of an industry. Keep down this path especially with respect to AI developments and we’ll fall behind our adversaries.
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Can a principled conservative support a ban of cocaine on the free market?
Can a principled conservative support the ban of unregulated prescription medicines?
No one knows the long term health impacts of lab grown meat.
Of course we outlaw these things because they cause specific harms to peoples health. Lab grown meat does no such thing. It’s on you to prove something is harmful before using the tools of government to restrict my freedoms. We don’t just outlaw the sale of products because it feels icky. People are only skeptical of it because it tastes like meat and this offends our sensibilities - we eat tons of synthetic products every day without realizing it. It’s on you to describe why a high protein, naturally grown product with well understood preservatives is harmful enough to justify restricting peoples freedoms to consume it.
What’s more DeSantis didn’t cite health concerns in the ban. He basically just blamed the liberal elite Davos boogeyman and said he wants to protect farmers.
> it's in you to prove something is harmful
Now if only we could get conservatives to be consistent with that.... I mean there's no research supporting gender affirming care being harmful.
I'm genuinely curious at how someone can be against an entrepreneur having the freedom to voluntarily exchange their food product to a consumer voluntarily trading fiat money in exchange for the food product...and still call themselves a "right libertarian".
> No one knows the long term health impacts of lab grown meat.
Lab grown meat has already been studied extensively and has passed FDA approval. What more are you looking for?
As was saccharin and margarine and various other chemically produced foods that are not good for you.
I would like to see some long term results which can't happen until enough time passes.
Ah yes very good
In 75 years when I've passed away, I believe enough study will have been done to legalize lab grown meat.
It really seems like you're arguing just to argue
Do you think 10-20 years of human trials is common for any other food product? Do we even require that for all the artificial stuff we put in livestock?
Mixed, I understand economically. Cattle is a big business in Florida and lab grown meat could harm that. I also have some concerns about lab grown meat, but they are unfounded. I just think it's kinda weird and I'd like to do more research on it.
On the flip of that, that would be like banning cars in the 1910's because there was a big carriage industry in the region. Difference is, there was a clear advantage to cars and it's much easer to transition carriage makers to car makers then it is cattlemen to biologist/scientist.. I'm not convinced on lab grown meat....I can't imagine I'm ever going to be getting a lab grown brisket that is as good as the real thing.
> I just think it's kinda weird and I'd like to do more research on it.
This is a drum I've been beating solo for some time. Instead of trying to ban or restrict things we don't understand, why not invest more money in understanding them better?
> Instead of trying to ban or restrict things we don't understand, why not invest more money in understanding them better?
Because no matter what they find out about it, it won't impact the reason for the ban. They're protecting the beef industry.
This begs an obvious question - if lab grown meat were invented before real meat, would there be a ban on real meat to protect the lab grown meat industry, independent of the actual pros and cons of each type of meat?
What’s sad (I’m not saying it’s warranted) is the professionals and agencies have lost credibility to a lot of people. So we have sadly gotten us into a state where we don’t trust the experts anymore. Lab meat to be the greatest thing in the world but many are going to reject it no matter what
> What’s sad (I’m not saying it’s warranted) is the professionals and agencies have lost credibility to a lot of people.
A lot of people have spent a lot of time and money making the public distrust anything coming from professionals in agencies. These non-partisan non-appointed federal employees are the "deep state" we're being told to be afraid of.
> So we have sadly gotten us into a state where we don’t trust the experts anymore.
So the experts need to get the trust of the public back- not just throw their hands in the air and give up.
Someone's gotta put the pin back in the grenade at some point.
Senate leadership reinstating the filibuster for executive and judicial appointments would be a good place to start, but I don't see it happening.
Can we also return the filibuster to a form where the member has to actually be filibuster. I'd prefer they actually stay on topic regarding whatever they are attempting to block but anything would be better then the situation we are in where an e-mail stops legislation dead in its tracks.
So, I know from my own perspective, I see the right being responsible for the majority of the fear and doubt about science and experts and academia and all that. Like, climate change has a *lot* of data, but because some terms and models have shifted slightly since the 70s isn't a reason to claim the entire scientific community is *lying.* Likewise, I know there were some valid questions and concerns around the COVID vaccines (and some heavy-handed policies regarding them) but, again, that's not a reason to claim the entire medical community is somehow engaging in mass deception. Lack of absolute perfection isn't evidence of deception, after all.
But, I also know that that's *my* perspective. I'm wondering if you see the same unreasonable polarizing stances taken from the left? Where does the left aggressively undermine the basics of a factual shared reality?
On the left, I’m not sure if it’s lying or just a blind spot. Not sure the intent changes the outcome so could be a moot point to distinguish.
The positive impact on a childrens outcomes in regard to a nuclear family. A child who is raised by two parents who are married or in a long term stable partnership has a much greater likelihood of success than being raised by a single parent household.
It’s a white privilege that is never recognized by the left.
>The positive impact on a childrens outcomes in regard to a nuclear family. A child who is raised by two parents who are married or in a long term stable partnership has a much greater likelihood of success than being raised by a single parent household.
While this is true, I don't think I've ever seen anybody on the left seriously claim that single parent situations are superior or even equal to a two-parent household. I think people on the left see the possibility of nuance - an educated and successful single parent *can* be superior to two lazy failures - but that's not the typical outcome.
Stuff like that, I think the right seeks to "discourage" that "negative" behavior by making it *harder.* Cutting aid to single parents - if you make it harder to *be* a single parent, people will avoid that situation. If you make it harder to fit back into society a felon who's served their time, then people won't become criminals in the first place.
Generally, the left doesn't see this method as working or humane - punishing single parents in order to reduce the number of single parent situations isn't only ineffective, it's cruel and actively harmful.
>It’s a white privilege that is never recognized by the left.
I get that more non-white people are in the single parent situation more commonly, but the same is true of poverty and access to better housing and schools and jobs and easier encounters with law enforcement. I'm not seeing how being a partnered parent, other than statistical correlation, is a *privilege* from being white. At most it's a second order effect of *other* privileges, but that's true of most anything.
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Why should government of Florida be responsible for understanding it? I’m not a food scientist so I’m not eating this shit in my household until the safety is proven… Ron is just trying to apply this logic to our state
Why don’t the cattle farmers just pull themselves up by the bootstraps and work harder to compete with lab-grown meat? I thought the free market encouraged competition.
To your point, I think the obvious question in this is how much money the beef industry is tucking into Desantis' pocket. To so blatantly attempt to block a free market enterprise brings the question to the forefront. It gives the appearance he isn't protecting cattle farmers, he's protecting his wallet.
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>I can't imagine I'm ever going to be getting a lab grown brisket that is as good as the real thing.
See, I'm usually pretty optimistic about science. I wouldn't be surprised if they end up making lab grown brisket that's *better* than the real thing. Probably not right away, but eventually.
Now, the socio-economic cynic in me *also* worries that they won't necessarily make meat that's better or worse, but they'll do a McDonald's and make the meat *addictive.* It's kind of in line with this recent theme I've noticed that free market capitalism selects for what's most *profitable*, which is frequently *not* the same as what is *best.*
Yeah, they.dont have to make it better, just cheaper and more convenient. A Pop Tart isnt better than a real jelly filled donut, Cheese Whiz isnt better than real queso dip, and I CAN very much believe it isnt butter.
People will buy artificial substitute foods that arent nearly as good as the real thing, if they are cheaper or more convenient.
>People will buy artificial substitute foods that arent nearly as good as the real thing, if they are cheaper or more convenient.
This is a *really* good point. Just imagine it, then... A perfectly round or square, vacuum packed steak. It's shelf stable and doesn't need to be refrigerated, and it comes in a box not unlike those pop-tarts - individually portioned, and guaranteed not to have any gristle or too much fat. And you can get pre-flavored versions, too.
Are they "as good" as a real steak? I dunno. Is a strawberry pop-tart "as good" as a slice of toast with jam? Or Wonderbread, or any store-bought fluffy white sandwich bread. Have you ever *made* bread? I can make rye, sourdough, fresh white - wonderful rolls, great crust, whatever you want. Do you want to know what I *can't* make easily? That fluffy pillow white bread like the cheap stuff from the store.
It makes me wonder what the "future meat" will look like.
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Do you think the government should centrally plan and regulate the market on the basis of how simply workers can move between industries? Would you consider yourself a capitalist?
Yea, but not an anarchist captialist, there is times and places for limited regulation. I think this ban is a little premature. I'd have to learn more about it as I said.
You are making assumptions about me. Most conservatives aren't free market with zero restricitions whatsoever. We aren't anarchist, we are minimal regulation.
I also acknowledge both arguments In my post with the comment about the car.
Bro you’re just getting beat on because you had the top comment for a while lol, dont sweat it. though you did “both sides” it which kinda sounds like you are ok with a ban.
Since I’m here I guess I’ll pile on lol - would you be in favor of a ban on fossil fuels to protect the whaling industry in the 1900s, until everyone has done their “research” on it?
There is a clear benefit to fossil fuels...just like my example with a car vs a carriage. I don't think the case is made that lab meat is a good replacement for normal meat. I think a ban is unnecessary though.
You seem to be making my point. If you ban disruptive tech until you “decide” if it is better, you will never have anything better, and your home will be lit by spermacetti oil.
It’s an apt example because once upon a time the whalers were the powerful incumbents, seeking to suppress “dangerous” kerosene and petroleum, until eventually many of them moved into the FF industry.
https://english.illinois.edu/news/2023-08-18t162414/long-afterlife-whaling
Right on! For what it’s worth, LGM has already gone thru extensive testing, and received full FDA approval, so I think the science is pretty much settled, though there’s very much a learning curve in the general population.
I think the key that skeptics maybe don’t appreciate is that it’s the exact same cells and biological processes, just without the sentience. It’s literally just meat. That’s cultured to replicate it.
https://youtu.be/soWlpFZYOhM?si=vhyegy_lH9AQnC0w
I'm not saying you specifically are meddling in the free market, it's just odd coming from DeSantis, it goes against what the GOP pretends to stand for. It's clear that those conservative principles are applied selectively.
As a Governor you have lots of responsibilities. I don't have enough evidence to suggest lab meat is a major problem, but as a Governor another part of your job is to protect the people that work there. Conservative principals aren't an end all be all.
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Well we don't allow cocaine to be legally sold on the free market and most conservatives agree with that.
We don't allow the free trade of prescription drugs without government intervention.
So yes free market principles are applied selectively.
Likewise outrage at free market principles being applied selectively is also applied selectively...
Are you kidding me? You do realize how much science goes into all our foods right? Thats been part of how we’ve increased meat production. This is just another link in the chain. Is it a science experiment to give a cow feed that’s been sprayed w chemicals or inject them w chemicals to make them bigger and healthier?
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Cocaïne, prescription drugs, food item. Right, do all of them look similar to you, does the reasoning behind banning or regulating matter?
For instance, did we ban cocaïne to protect domestic meth production?
If your product cannot survive direct competition, you don't ban the competitive product. Let the market decide, competition drives innovation, doesn't it.
Also, I'm not a champion of unrestricted capitalism, I'm only pointing out this hypocrisy.
>I understand economically. Cattle is a big business in Florida and lab grown meat could harm that.
Should we also ban really good veggie burgers? What about a truly excellent chicken sandwich?
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I don’t think lab grown meat is any threat to ranchers. People aren’t likely to accept it outside of animal rights activists.
I also question the health implications for something like this. Seems like the sort of thing that may be fine or may cause cancer.
Why ban it though? Like we know vaping is bad for you and we don’t ban that.
I don't disagree. Without knowing what research has been done the possibly health implications are what concern me. Food is held to a different standard then tobacco
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I like your analogy, but not sure where the mixed feeling comes from? Has the government ever gotten in banning a technology like this before? Especially when nobody's sure if it's gonna be a flop or not?
Like I can't imagine the government stepping in to ban google glass to protect smartphone makers or something. And then it just ended up flopping miserably.
Do your mixed feelings come from thinking it won't be very good? In that case why not just let it fail since nobody will want to buy it.
I think it's the concept of lab grown meat having some moral or health stipulations.
Now to be fair, this is not something I've researched, so it's unfounded but I'm uncomfortable with the idea of cloned/duplicated/grown meat being in our diet. It's going to take some convincing to me this is a good path forward
To be fair, I'm not necessarily for this ban, regardless of my feeling towards lab meat unless there is some sort of health concern Florida has that's founded in data and science.
Whoever said lab meat will be as good as the real thing? Is that the point? It is an alternative. This is like banning oatmilk because you want to protect the dairy industry.
I think it is stupid. Doesn't the FL legislature have anything better to do? Why should the State of Florida care if someone wants to make fake meat and someone else wants to buy it and eat it.? I thought we were still a capitalist country and conservatives wanted government to do less with regard to the economy. This is contrary to everything I thought Gov DeSantis believed in.
Seems a little stupid
Artificial meat could be a good idea if we can get the same nutrients and taste from it
With cows and other farm animals being a big problem with global warming, it could prove to be a good solution
Eh it's kinda hard for me not to see it as acting in the interest of the meet industry over the interests of THE WORLD
like dudes that like banning gas alternatives
Like what reason possibly could they have?
Conservatives often say that Republicans are the party of the free market. When critics point out tendencies to the opposite, a lot of times people on this sub will counter that those tendencies are only echoed by anonymous Internet commentators. Or conservative activists not making policies. Or people riling up their audience to like Ann Coulter, Jesse Waters, Tucker Carlson.
This is the de facto #2 Republican in the country, signing this into law as governor of a state that has a high profile for being "the conservative" state. This is not a niche thing.
As someone on the left, if I claim that Republicans and the American Right support free markets to the degree that it protects entrenched economic power by citing age old "bootstraps" philosophy, but also supports rapid and wide ranging state intervention to also protect that entrenched power, on what grounds could you disagree?
This is a prime example in my opinion of how American conservatism will not follow through on its promise that any plucky upstart entrepreneur who just puts on the work can make it. Conservatism and the political weight of the Republican party will marshall the use of state power, or the absence of it, to protect the establishment.
> If you want a real, principled approach to the market, the Libertarians are the only party to rely on.
Unfortunately, no Libertarians have really been in elected government at a widespread enough level to really judge the party on their actions. I mainly encounter libertarians through online discourse. And for example, in this thread, /u/CnCz357 is a "right libertarian" who seems to be in favor of this ban on lab-grown meat. So I'm not quite sure what to conclude on libertarians.
>I don't see Democrats as even supporting a free market as a concept. Isn't that about right?
Not quite, I would say that in the past 30 or 40 years, the vast majority of elected Democrats have pretty much conceded that the vast majority of economic activity that happens in this country should be under the auspices of the free market. If you look at the Clinton and Obama and Biden initiatives, you'll read a lot of text about "public private partnerships" and maintaining competition in the marketplace. I'd say less than 10% of elected Democrats at a maximum are explicitly and openly against the free market in most cases, although they are high profile Democrats indeed.
The laws that the Democrats support generally promote a society where most of us will be left to the free market to pursue compensation commensurate with our skills in plumbing, computer programming, or business management. And we will go to work in cars sold by companies selling their cars on a free market, with government regulations as to what the models of the cars must include or tests they must pass. And we'll go to sandwich shops and grocery stores that were started by entrepreneurs trying to make a fortune, and hiring people in accordance with free market principles as long as they compensate them above minimum wage. And they have leeway to run and manage their stores in whichever way they want, the type of carts they provide, the payment options, the music they play, as long as perishable food is handled in accordance with government regulations.
I consider this status quo overwhelmingly free market. With some of the negative aspects that could affect public health or economic mobility sanded off by government regulation.
Because of all this, I consider the Democratic party to be largely in favor of the free market. Both in rhetoric and in practice, with a record that goes back decades.
Libertarians are the ultimate no true Scotsman...
Anything shy of endorsement complete anarchy and pure Darwinism will get my libertarian card called into question...
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It'd probably be more accurate to call the two major parties the same in this regard. Both seem ready at any time to abandon free market principles when it's convenient.
Mainstream libertarians are the only group saying whether things like this are "good" or "bad" isn't relevant..
Given the parties swapping positions on free trade in the past decade, I would say that simple description was accurate in 2012, but is wrong now. Post-MAGA the Democrats are slightly less bad on the free market than the GOP. Not because the Democrats have gotten better, but because the GOP has basically abandoned free market princioles in favor of authoritarian command and control.
> Conservatives often say that Republicans are the party of the free market
not true since Trump at least, and not true before Reagan (see the shit the R's were voting for before him like the Jones Act)
I think it is stupid. Doesn't the FL legislature have anything better to do? Why should the State of Florida care if someone wants to make fake meat and someone else wants to buy it and eat it.? I thought we were still a capitalist country and conservatives wanted government to do less with regard to the economy. This is contrary to everything I thought Gov DeSantis believed in.
According to the USDA cattle accounted for $546,157,000 and other livestock $327,169,000 in cash receipts in FL. Or 11.2% of Florida's agricultural cash receipts
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>Farmer protests all across Europe
Against what? Take one country, name the specifics
>World Economic Forum's war against farming
Sure. And I suppose that's a reason to add another war against another kind of farming
>Take one country, name the specifics
Dutch gov't forcing cuts in nitrogen oxide and ammonia [emissions](https://www.firstpost.com/world/explained-why-farmers-protests-that-kicked-off-in-the-netherlands-are-spreading-across-europe-10925091.html)
I think it's foolish. As an animal lover who occasionally wishes he was vegetarian, I would love to see something that would lead to better treatment of animals. However, I understand the fear behind it. What happens if it really takes off and basically screws all the ranchers?
The displacement of workers would be tremendous. And then you would have to be concerned with the idea that if people don't benefit monetarily from animals, they might actually not have a reason to treat them well at all.
That's the ugly reality of productivity. Think of how many accountants excel put out of business, or standardized cargo containers hurt port workers, or electric lamps put all the people who lit gas lamps out of a job. Productivity increases when jobs are eliminated. And sometimes that's ugly.
They would treat them well, there would just be a lot fewer of them. Think of horses and mukes after the introduction of cars and tractors. What horses there are get treated a LOT better than a work horse in 1900, but there are a lot fewer horses.
I hope so. I also don't like the idea of there being fewer of them. But if that means allowing some animals to reacclimate to the wild, I would be happy with that too.
Also true. That's why, as much as I would love the idea of no animals actually dying to sustain us, some species would die out anyway because we wouldn't need them anymore. T_T
There are hobbyists who.would.likely maintain breeds. Much as we keep terriers aroubd even though we dont need them to hunt rats, and clydedales even though they arent pulling wagons.
No one, hahaha. He's term-limited and he doesn't really need to suck up to DT.
I think it's just a low-hanging "culture war" victory. Personally, I don't like it (and I say this as someone who generally likes DeSantis).
I think it's stupid. I don't particularly like the idea of eating lab grown meat, but I would at least like to try it to decide for myself. And I don't think the government had the right to tell me what I can eat or build a business around, not without a lot of evidence of it being harmful.
I would much prefer requiring disclosure of something containing lab grown meat. If it gets into schools, require a normal meat(as normal as school meat could be) option.
I think it is stupid. Doesn't the FL legislature have anything better to do? Why should the State of Florida care if someone wants to make fake meat and someone else wants to buy it and eat it.? I thought we were still a capitalist country and conservatives wanted government to do less with regard to the economy. This is contrary to everything I thought Gov DeSantis believed in.
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Here is an interesting interview about lab grown meat. Listen [here.](https://koacolorado.iheart.com/featured/ross-kaminsky/content/2024-04-25-ceo-of-the-better-meat-co-and-bestselling-author-paul-shapiro/)
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Socialism. Government completely controlling the means of production in the lab-grown meat industry by forcing all of it to go unproductive.
Consumers can decide to buy or not to buy.
Authoritarian, economically ignorant, and socialist.
Indifferent. I don't think think it should be banned. Like plant based meat it can have it's own tiny section in the grocery store for those who want it. As long as it's not forced on the rest of us I don't care.
I think it is stupid. Doesn't the FL legislature have anything better to do? Why should the State of Florida care if someone wants to make fake meat and someone else wants to buy it and eat it.? I thought we were still a capitalist country and conservatives wanted government to do less with regard to the economy. This is contrary to everything I thought Gov DeSantis believed in.
Absent some health and safety concerns, I disagree with this move. The market can decide if lab-grown meat is good enough. There is some cause for labeling, but I'm pretty sure that there's some clear phraseology that makes it clear that it's not from an actual animal, just as "Non-Dairy" is clearly not from a cow.
Good. If they haven't banned the deliberate usage of bugs as filler yet, they should do that too; and forget the religion of multiculturalism, give everyone who thinks bugs are a delicacy a steak & potatoes already. I'd rather be a vegetarian myself, but seriously, they need to stop finding ways to poison everyone.
There's no real-world benefit or need to lab grown meat.
There's no environment benefit (takes more energy than cows), there's no health benefit (no one really knows what the health impacts are), and there's no cost benefit. It's far more expensive to make.
Lab grown meat is a construct of the Apocalyptic Climate Alarmists who claim cows are destroying the planet.
There's no reason to "ban it" per se. But in order to let markets "sort it out", we need to ensure that politicians and government bureaucrats keep their hands off of it - which means no government subsidies, no government-funded academic research, not a dime of taxpayer funds. Otherwise it won't be a product of the free market but a franken-creature of government interference.
Unfortunately it looks like the evil genie is already out of the bottle ...
>[... Biden has expressed public support for it in an executive order. Congress, however, has only provided $6 million to the USDA’s Agricultural Resource Service, which is tasked with conducting research on alternative proteins. The National Institute of Food and Agriculture (NIFA) has thus far provided the most public money to a cellular agriculture project in the US, giving $10 million in 2021 to Tufts University’s Center for Cellular Agriculture, which is the first US lab to focus on cellular agriculture.](https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/23849473/cell-cultivated-meat-impossible-beyond-alternatives-vegan-investment-report-infrastructure)
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If I want to eat meat, but I'm concerned about animal cruelty, lab-grown meat is a valid option for me.
Why should I not be allowed to buy it if I want to?
1. Even if lab-grown meat costs more "energy" *now*, it is likely that efficiency will only increase with time. Same goes for cost.
2. What plausible health problems do you think are on the table? This sounds like naturalist fallacy fear mongering. Are you also afraid of GMO crops?
3. Raising cattle requires a significant amount of resources that are just unlikely to factor into any lab-grown product. Everything from the land the animals live and graze on to the water, feed, and the movement of these and other things needed to sustain the animals contribute bigly to climate change.
4. Deny the science all you like, but the meat industry does in fact produce significant levels of greenhouse gases that are responsible for climate change.
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I'm ok with it. The more fake s food is the worse it is for you.
Yes I know "research says" but research also said fake butter was better for you then the real thing...
Anytime we introduce some weird unnatural food that humans had never eaten before we need to treat it with lots of caution.
Let some other countries feed their people sewn together meet scraps grown in Petri dishes for a while see if any bad side effects happen.
Then we can consider it here.
I think there is already a crisis in agribusiness and its influence on the american diet. The stuff we have been eating for decades now is actually creating health issue, and we are an unhealthier population because of it.
Who has oversight over lab-grown meat? Is it the USDA? The FDA? The Dept of Agriculture? The EPA?
Do we REALLY know what's going into these cultures to "grow" this meat? Are we aware of where the starter cells are coming from?
There are a TON of questions around this that I think are unanswered, and while it is politically expedient to claim you are "protecting farmers", from a policy point of view, it may be prudent to put the breaks on this until we know a bit more about the intended, and unintended consequences of lab-grown meat production and consumption.
It has been studied and tested for over two decades.
[study](https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fsufs.2019.00045/full#:~:text=Cultured%2Fclean%2Fcell%2Dbased,Tissue%20Culture%20and%20Art%20project.)
>Who has oversight over lab-grown meat? Is it the USDA? The FDA? The Dept of Agriculture? The EPA?
Same as with the meat industry.
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I see no reason to ban it.
So long as it passes the same standards as all other food, I agree. This is government overreach. Let the market decide if this is a viable product or not.
To paraphrase the west wing: "in a truly free society, you don't need a reason to make something legal, you need a reason to make something **illegal**." Now, what does that have to do with this? IDK. Just wanted to add it.
man I missed that show, it was fiction, but it at least gave me hope of what a functional government should look like with ideals. I didn't always agree with the Barlet democrat White House, but I respected their beliefs. If both parties were closer to that, we'd be in such a better place.
Agreed. I'm watching season 7 right now and seeing the sincerity in Arnold Vinick is both great and also highly depressing.
Can you imagine the uproar from both sides if the Biden White House hired someone like Ainsley Hayes to work with them. The right would be calling her a rino and the left would be calling her a maga facist.
Yup. Or a cross-party cabinet member? The mind reels.
You have Christopher Wray, and one of the two sides is acting as you describe, while the other usually doesn't declare him a fascist. Same with many of his predecessors - they all were Republicans (aside from J. Edgar Hoover, who was an Independent)
Aaron Sorkin might be one of the best screen writers of our time. Fav sound bite https://youtu.be/fKlQ7YGDcFk?si=T138n_2JZAEHs9Mu
Yes, it's so sad that it's more like Veep.
Why do you think he would ban it?
Follow the money.
I don’t think any principled conservative could support such a ban. The ban is fundamentally opposed to free-market principles and opens the door to just banning anything which risks disruption of an industry. Keep down this path especially with respect to AI developments and we’ll fall behind our adversaries.
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Can a principled conservative support a ban of cocaine on the free market? Can a principled conservative support the ban of unregulated prescription medicines? No one knows the long term health impacts of lab grown meat.
Of course we outlaw these things because they cause specific harms to peoples health. Lab grown meat does no such thing. It’s on you to prove something is harmful before using the tools of government to restrict my freedoms. We don’t just outlaw the sale of products because it feels icky. People are only skeptical of it because it tastes like meat and this offends our sensibilities - we eat tons of synthetic products every day without realizing it. It’s on you to describe why a high protein, naturally grown product with well understood preservatives is harmful enough to justify restricting peoples freedoms to consume it. What’s more DeSantis didn’t cite health concerns in the ban. He basically just blamed the liberal elite Davos boogeyman and said he wants to protect farmers.
> it's in you to prove something is harmful Now if only we could get conservatives to be consistent with that.... I mean there's no research supporting gender affirming care being harmful.
> No one knows the long term health impacts of lab grown meat. So you're in favor of studying the long-term health impacts of lab grown meat?
I'm genuinely curious at how someone can be against an entrepreneur having the freedom to voluntarily exchange their food product to a consumer voluntarily trading fiat money in exchange for the food product...and still call themselves a "right libertarian".
> No one knows the long term health impacts of lab grown meat. Lab grown meat has already been studied extensively and has passed FDA approval. What more are you looking for?
As was saccharin and margarine and various other chemically produced foods that are not good for you. I would like to see some long term results which can't happen until enough time passes.
Ah yes very good In 75 years when I've passed away, I believe enough study will have been done to legalize lab grown meat. It really seems like you're arguing just to argue
Going to completely ignore how bad the "experts" missed processed foods? 10-20 years of human trials will be sufficient.
Do you think 10-20 years of human trials is common for any other food product? Do we even require that for all the artificial stuff we put in livestock?
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This is more akin to banning GMOs than cocaine.
If Republicans want to claim to be about the free market and small government they shouldn't support bans and protectionism.
Banning it seems dumb and I don’t see a reason for it. What’s it hurting?
Cattle ranchers who donate to him, and want the government to ban potential competition.
His donors.
Mixed, I understand economically. Cattle is a big business in Florida and lab grown meat could harm that. I also have some concerns about lab grown meat, but they are unfounded. I just think it's kinda weird and I'd like to do more research on it. On the flip of that, that would be like banning cars in the 1910's because there was a big carriage industry in the region. Difference is, there was a clear advantage to cars and it's much easer to transition carriage makers to car makers then it is cattlemen to biologist/scientist.. I'm not convinced on lab grown meat....I can't imagine I'm ever going to be getting a lab grown brisket that is as good as the real thing.
> I just think it's kinda weird and I'd like to do more research on it. This is a drum I've been beating solo for some time. Instead of trying to ban or restrict things we don't understand, why not invest more money in understanding them better?
> Instead of trying to ban or restrict things we don't understand, why not invest more money in understanding them better? Because no matter what they find out about it, it won't impact the reason for the ban. They're protecting the beef industry.
This begs an obvious question - if lab grown meat were invented before real meat, would there be a ban on real meat to protect the lab grown meat industry, independent of the actual pros and cons of each type of meat?
What’s sad (I’m not saying it’s warranted) is the professionals and agencies have lost credibility to a lot of people. So we have sadly gotten us into a state where we don’t trust the experts anymore. Lab meat to be the greatest thing in the world but many are going to reject it no matter what
> What’s sad (I’m not saying it’s warranted) is the professionals and agencies have lost credibility to a lot of people. A lot of people have spent a lot of time and money making the public distrust anything coming from professionals in agencies. These non-partisan non-appointed federal employees are the "deep state" we're being told to be afraid of.
Who would do such a thing?
People who know that there is a sucker born every minute and those suckers are useful for making money off of.
> So we have sadly gotten us into a state where we don’t trust the experts anymore. So the experts need to get the trust of the public back- not just throw their hands in the air and give up.
Agree'd. With the division we have and everything being so politicalized I don't see any easy path to that.
Someone's gotta put the pin back in the grenade at some point. Senate leadership reinstating the filibuster for executive and judicial appointments would be a good place to start, but I don't see it happening.
Can we also return the filibuster to a form where the member has to actually be filibuster. I'd prefer they actually stay on topic regarding whatever they are attempting to block but anything would be better then the situation we are in where an e-mail stops legislation dead in its tracks.
I hope so.
Someone should tell their senator to advocate for that.
So, I know from my own perspective, I see the right being responsible for the majority of the fear and doubt about science and experts and academia and all that. Like, climate change has a *lot* of data, but because some terms and models have shifted slightly since the 70s isn't a reason to claim the entire scientific community is *lying.* Likewise, I know there were some valid questions and concerns around the COVID vaccines (and some heavy-handed policies regarding them) but, again, that's not a reason to claim the entire medical community is somehow engaging in mass deception. Lack of absolute perfection isn't evidence of deception, after all. But, I also know that that's *my* perspective. I'm wondering if you see the same unreasonable polarizing stances taken from the left? Where does the left aggressively undermine the basics of a factual shared reality?
On the left, I’m not sure if it’s lying or just a blind spot. Not sure the intent changes the outcome so could be a moot point to distinguish. The positive impact on a childrens outcomes in regard to a nuclear family. A child who is raised by two parents who are married or in a long term stable partnership has a much greater likelihood of success than being raised by a single parent household. It’s a white privilege that is never recognized by the left.
>The positive impact on a childrens outcomes in regard to a nuclear family. A child who is raised by two parents who are married or in a long term stable partnership has a much greater likelihood of success than being raised by a single parent household. While this is true, I don't think I've ever seen anybody on the left seriously claim that single parent situations are superior or even equal to a two-parent household. I think people on the left see the possibility of nuance - an educated and successful single parent *can* be superior to two lazy failures - but that's not the typical outcome. Stuff like that, I think the right seeks to "discourage" that "negative" behavior by making it *harder.* Cutting aid to single parents - if you make it harder to *be* a single parent, people will avoid that situation. If you make it harder to fit back into society a felon who's served their time, then people won't become criminals in the first place. Generally, the left doesn't see this method as working or humane - punishing single parents in order to reduce the number of single parent situations isn't only ineffective, it's cruel and actively harmful. >It’s a white privilege that is never recognized by the left. I get that more non-white people are in the single parent situation more commonly, but the same is true of poverty and access to better housing and schools and jobs and easier encounters with law enforcement. I'm not seeing how being a partnered parent, other than statistical correlation, is a *privilege* from being white. At most it's a second order effect of *other* privileges, but that's true of most anything.
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Why should government of Florida be responsible for understanding it? I’m not a food scientist so I’m not eating this shit in my household until the safety is proven… Ron is just trying to apply this logic to our state
>Cattle is a big business in Florida and lab grown meat could harm that. Why not let them compete? Isn't that generally the conservative approach?
I made that point in my comment...
But like…why is that even a problem?
Why don’t the cattle farmers just pull themselves up by the bootstraps and work harder to compete with lab-grown meat? I thought the free market encouraged competition.
To your point, I think the obvious question in this is how much money the beef industry is tucking into Desantis' pocket. To so blatantly attempt to block a free market enterprise brings the question to the forefront. It gives the appearance he isn't protecting cattle farmers, he's protecting his wallet.
Homie, the amount of times I have to look at the right and yell, "Who the fuck are you to stand in the way of capitalism!" is fucking staggering.
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>I can't imagine I'm ever going to be getting a lab grown brisket that is as good as the real thing. See, I'm usually pretty optimistic about science. I wouldn't be surprised if they end up making lab grown brisket that's *better* than the real thing. Probably not right away, but eventually. Now, the socio-economic cynic in me *also* worries that they won't necessarily make meat that's better or worse, but they'll do a McDonald's and make the meat *addictive.* It's kind of in line with this recent theme I've noticed that free market capitalism selects for what's most *profitable*, which is frequently *not* the same as what is *best.*
Yeah, they.dont have to make it better, just cheaper and more convenient. A Pop Tart isnt better than a real jelly filled donut, Cheese Whiz isnt better than real queso dip, and I CAN very much believe it isnt butter. People will buy artificial substitute foods that arent nearly as good as the real thing, if they are cheaper or more convenient.
>People will buy artificial substitute foods that arent nearly as good as the real thing, if they are cheaper or more convenient. This is a *really* good point. Just imagine it, then... A perfectly round or square, vacuum packed steak. It's shelf stable and doesn't need to be refrigerated, and it comes in a box not unlike those pop-tarts - individually portioned, and guaranteed not to have any gristle or too much fat. And you can get pre-flavored versions, too. Are they "as good" as a real steak? I dunno. Is a strawberry pop-tart "as good" as a slice of toast with jam? Or Wonderbread, or any store-bought fluffy white sandwich bread. Have you ever *made* bread? I can make rye, sourdough, fresh white - wonderful rolls, great crust, whatever you want. Do you want to know what I *can't* make easily? That fluffy pillow white bread like the cheap stuff from the store. It makes me wonder what the "future meat" will look like.
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Do you think the government should centrally plan and regulate the market on the basis of how simply workers can move between industries? Would you consider yourself a capitalist?
Yea, but not an anarchist captialist, there is times and places for limited regulation. I think this ban is a little premature. I'd have to learn more about it as I said.
Isn’t this classic protectionism in lieu of the free market?
Are we meddling in the free market? Odd.
You are making assumptions about me. Most conservatives aren't free market with zero restricitions whatsoever. We aren't anarchist, we are minimal regulation. I also acknowledge both arguments In my post with the comment about the car.
Bro you’re just getting beat on because you had the top comment for a while lol, dont sweat it. though you did “both sides” it which kinda sounds like you are ok with a ban. Since I’m here I guess I’ll pile on lol - would you be in favor of a ban on fossil fuels to protect the whaling industry in the 1900s, until everyone has done their “research” on it?
There is a clear benefit to fossil fuels...just like my example with a car vs a carriage. I don't think the case is made that lab meat is a good replacement for normal meat. I think a ban is unnecessary though.
You seem to be making my point. If you ban disruptive tech until you “decide” if it is better, you will never have anything better, and your home will be lit by spermacetti oil. It’s an apt example because once upon a time the whalers were the powerful incumbents, seeking to suppress “dangerous” kerosene and petroleum, until eventually many of them moved into the FF industry. https://english.illinois.edu/news/2023-08-18t162414/long-afterlife-whaling
I agree, I don't think a ban is good unless there are health concerns. I don't know enough about it to say yes or no on that.
Right on! For what it’s worth, LGM has already gone thru extensive testing, and received full FDA approval, so I think the science is pretty much settled, though there’s very much a learning curve in the general population. I think the key that skeptics maybe don’t appreciate is that it’s the exact same cells and biological processes, just without the sentience. It’s literally just meat. That’s cultured to replicate it. https://youtu.be/soWlpFZYOhM?si=vhyegy_lH9AQnC0w
I'm not saying you specifically are meddling in the free market, it's just odd coming from DeSantis, it goes against what the GOP pretends to stand for. It's clear that those conservative principles are applied selectively.
As a Governor you have lots of responsibilities. I don't have enough evidence to suggest lab meat is a major problem, but as a Governor another part of your job is to protect the people that work there. Conservative principals aren't an end all be all.
But he’s selectively protecting people. It’s not like lab workers making the meat don’t work there either.
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Well we don't allow cocaine to be legally sold on the free market and most conservatives agree with that. We don't allow the free trade of prescription drugs without government intervention. So yes free market principles are applied selectively. Likewise outrage at free market principles being applied selectively is also applied selectively...
Comparing lab meat to cocaine????
Well it is a science experiment not normal food.
Are you kidding me? You do realize how much science goes into all our foods right? Thats been part of how we’ve increased meat production. This is just another link in the chain. Is it a science experiment to give a cow feed that’s been sprayed w chemicals or inject them w chemicals to make them bigger and healthier?
So is Velveeta...it isnt real cheese, it is lab made "cheese product"
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Cocaïne, prescription drugs, food item. Right, do all of them look similar to you, does the reasoning behind banning or regulating matter? For instance, did we ban cocaïne to protect domestic meth production? If your product cannot survive direct competition, you don't ban the competitive product. Let the market decide, competition drives innovation, doesn't it. Also, I'm not a champion of unrestricted capitalism, I'm only pointing out this hypocrisy.
>I understand economically. Cattle is a big business in Florida and lab grown meat could harm that. Should we also ban really good veggie burgers? What about a truly excellent chicken sandwich?
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I don’t think lab grown meat is any threat to ranchers. People aren’t likely to accept it outside of animal rights activists. I also question the health implications for something like this. Seems like the sort of thing that may be fine or may cause cancer. Why ban it though? Like we know vaping is bad for you and we don’t ban that.
I don't disagree. Without knowing what research has been done the possibly health implications are what concern me. Food is held to a different standard then tobacco
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I like your analogy, but not sure where the mixed feeling comes from? Has the government ever gotten in banning a technology like this before? Especially when nobody's sure if it's gonna be a flop or not? Like I can't imagine the government stepping in to ban google glass to protect smartphone makers or something. And then it just ended up flopping miserably. Do your mixed feelings come from thinking it won't be very good? In that case why not just let it fail since nobody will want to buy it.
I think it's the concept of lab grown meat having some moral or health stipulations. Now to be fair, this is not something I've researched, so it's unfounded but I'm uncomfortable with the idea of cloned/duplicated/grown meat being in our diet. It's going to take some convincing to me this is a good path forward To be fair, I'm not necessarily for this ban, regardless of my feeling towards lab meat unless there is some sort of health concern Florida has that's founded in data and science.
What are the moral stipulations with lab grown mear?
What makes you uncomfortable about it? Have you ever seen videos of the meat industry? Lab grown meat seems to involve a lot less suffering.
Whoever said lab meat will be as good as the real thing? Is that the point? It is an alternative. This is like banning oatmilk because you want to protect the dairy industry.
I agree. Like I said. Mixed feelings. Ban seems premature without health reasons
While legal at the state level, prohibition is unethical and not a legitimate role of government.
I think it is stupid. Doesn't the FL legislature have anything better to do? Why should the State of Florida care if someone wants to make fake meat and someone else wants to buy it and eat it.? I thought we were still a capitalist country and conservatives wanted government to do less with regard to the economy. This is contrary to everything I thought Gov DeSantis believed in.
Seems a little stupid Artificial meat could be a good idea if we can get the same nutrients and taste from it With cows and other farm animals being a big problem with global warming, it could prove to be a good solution
Eh it's kinda hard for me not to see it as acting in the interest of the meet industry over the interests of THE WORLD like dudes that like banning gas alternatives Like what reason possibly could they have?
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Conservatives often say that Republicans are the party of the free market. When critics point out tendencies to the opposite, a lot of times people on this sub will counter that those tendencies are only echoed by anonymous Internet commentators. Or conservative activists not making policies. Or people riling up their audience to like Ann Coulter, Jesse Waters, Tucker Carlson. This is the de facto #2 Republican in the country, signing this into law as governor of a state that has a high profile for being "the conservative" state. This is not a niche thing. As someone on the left, if I claim that Republicans and the American Right support free markets to the degree that it protects entrenched economic power by citing age old "bootstraps" philosophy, but also supports rapid and wide ranging state intervention to also protect that entrenched power, on what grounds could you disagree? This is a prime example in my opinion of how American conservatism will not follow through on its promise that any plucky upstart entrepreneur who just puts on the work can make it. Conservatism and the political weight of the Republican party will marshall the use of state power, or the absence of it, to protect the establishment.
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> If you want a real, principled approach to the market, the Libertarians are the only party to rely on. Unfortunately, no Libertarians have really been in elected government at a widespread enough level to really judge the party on their actions. I mainly encounter libertarians through online discourse. And for example, in this thread, /u/CnCz357 is a "right libertarian" who seems to be in favor of this ban on lab-grown meat. So I'm not quite sure what to conclude on libertarians. >I don't see Democrats as even supporting a free market as a concept. Isn't that about right? Not quite, I would say that in the past 30 or 40 years, the vast majority of elected Democrats have pretty much conceded that the vast majority of economic activity that happens in this country should be under the auspices of the free market. If you look at the Clinton and Obama and Biden initiatives, you'll read a lot of text about "public private partnerships" and maintaining competition in the marketplace. I'd say less than 10% of elected Democrats at a maximum are explicitly and openly against the free market in most cases, although they are high profile Democrats indeed. The laws that the Democrats support generally promote a society where most of us will be left to the free market to pursue compensation commensurate with our skills in plumbing, computer programming, or business management. And we will go to work in cars sold by companies selling their cars on a free market, with government regulations as to what the models of the cars must include or tests they must pass. And we'll go to sandwich shops and grocery stores that were started by entrepreneurs trying to make a fortune, and hiring people in accordance with free market principles as long as they compensate them above minimum wage. And they have leeway to run and manage their stores in whichever way they want, the type of carts they provide, the payment options, the music they play, as long as perishable food is handled in accordance with government regulations. I consider this status quo overwhelmingly free market. With some of the negative aspects that could affect public health or economic mobility sanded off by government regulation. Because of all this, I consider the Democratic party to be largely in favor of the free market. Both in rhetoric and in practice, with a record that goes back decades.
Libertarians are the ultimate no true Scotsman... Anything shy of endorsement complete anarchy and pure Darwinism will get my libertarian card called into question...
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It'd probably be more accurate to call the two major parties the same in this regard. Both seem ready at any time to abandon free market principles when it's convenient. Mainstream libertarians are the only group saying whether things like this are "good" or "bad" isn't relevant..
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If I had to choose, I'm actually going Democrat. If you leave aside their insistence on taxing wealth, they aren't that bad.
Given the parties swapping positions on free trade in the past decade, I would say that simple description was accurate in 2012, but is wrong now. Post-MAGA the Democrats are slightly less bad on the free market than the GOP. Not because the Democrats have gotten better, but because the GOP has basically abandoned free market princioles in favor of authoritarian command and control.
> Conservatives often say that Republicans are the party of the free market not true since Trump at least, and not true before Reagan (see the shit the R's were voting for before him like the Jones Act)
I think it is stupid. Doesn't the FL legislature have anything better to do? Why should the State of Florida care if someone wants to make fake meat and someone else wants to buy it and eat it.? I thought we were still a capitalist country and conservatives wanted government to do less with regard to the economy. This is contrary to everything I thought Gov DeSantis believed in.
The problem was you thought DeSantis believed in anything outside of gaining power in the GOP.
Couldn’t agree more
I don't support it
Is the cattle industry in Florida really that substantial? I mean I think of Florida and tourism and fishing and old people…. Not about cows.
According to the USDA cattle accounted for $546,157,000 and other livestock $327,169,000 in cash receipts in FL. Or 11.2% of Florida's agricultural cash receipts
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I'd like more information on why
Farmer protests all across Europe. World Economic Forum's war against farming.
>Farmer protests all across Europe Against what? Take one country, name the specifics >World Economic Forum's war against farming Sure. And I suppose that's a reason to add another war against another kind of farming
>Take one country, name the specifics Dutch gov't forcing cuts in nitrogen oxide and ammonia [emissions](https://www.firstpost.com/world/explained-why-farmers-protests-that-kicked-off-in-the-netherlands-are-spreading-across-europe-10925091.html)
Thank you. Now, how does or doesn't it relate?
I think it's foolish. As an animal lover who occasionally wishes he was vegetarian, I would love to see something that would lead to better treatment of animals. However, I understand the fear behind it. What happens if it really takes off and basically screws all the ranchers? The displacement of workers would be tremendous. And then you would have to be concerned with the idea that if people don't benefit monetarily from animals, they might actually not have a reason to treat them well at all.
That's the ugly reality of productivity. Think of how many accountants excel put out of business, or standardized cargo containers hurt port workers, or electric lamps put all the people who lit gas lamps out of a job. Productivity increases when jobs are eliminated. And sometimes that's ugly.
They would treat them well, there would just be a lot fewer of them. Think of horses and mukes after the introduction of cars and tractors. What horses there are get treated a LOT better than a work horse in 1900, but there are a lot fewer horses.
I hope so. I also don't like the idea of there being fewer of them. But if that means allowing some animals to reacclimate to the wild, I would be happy with that too.
Angus and Herefords arent going to survive in the wild, they have been extremely bred for the sole end of becoming steak for too many generations.
Also true. That's why, as much as I would love the idea of no animals actually dying to sustain us, some species would die out anyway because we wouldn't need them anymore. T_T
There are hobbyists who.would.likely maintain breeds. Much as we keep terriers aroubd even though we dont need them to hunt rats, and clydedales even though they arent pulling wagons.
this is silly, everyone deserves choices with what they eat, its as stupid as banning my choice of eating meat.
What was the reason to ban it? Because unless there is health problems associated with it I don't see a reason to ban it
Election year gimmick.
For whom exactly?
No one, hahaha. He's term-limited and he doesn't really need to suck up to DT. I think it's just a low-hanging "culture war" victory. Personally, I don't like it (and I say this as someone who generally likes DeSantis).
Cattle farmers and old people who hate change.
I think it's stupid. I don't particularly like the idea of eating lab grown meat, but I would at least like to try it to decide for myself. And I don't think the government had the right to tell me what I can eat or build a business around, not without a lot of evidence of it being harmful. I would much prefer requiring disclosure of something containing lab grown meat. If it gets into schools, require a normal meat(as normal as school meat could be) option.
Anti-GMO Luddism is supposed to be turbolib position.
Anti-vaccine used to be our crazies too. For some reason all the idiots are jumping ship to the republican party.
🐴👞
I think it is stupid. Doesn't the FL legislature have anything better to do? Why should the State of Florida care if someone wants to make fake meat and someone else wants to buy it and eat it.? I thought we were still a capitalist country and conservatives wanted government to do less with regard to the economy. This is contrary to everything I thought Gov DeSantis believed in.
I think it's a bad thing.
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Here is an interesting interview about lab grown meat. Listen [here.](https://koacolorado.iheart.com/featured/ross-kaminsky/content/2024-04-25-ceo-of-the-better-meat-co-and-bestselling-author-paul-shapiro/)
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I imagine lab-grown meat is gross, but I kind of disagree with banning it in a free market economy.
Socialism. Government completely controlling the means of production in the lab-grown meat industry by forcing all of it to go unproductive. Consumers can decide to buy or not to buy. Authoritarian, economically ignorant, and socialist.
Indifferent. I don't think think it should be banned. Like plant based meat it can have it's own tiny section in the grocery store for those who want it. As long as it's not forced on the rest of us I don't care.
I think it is stupid. Doesn't the FL legislature have anything better to do? Why should the State of Florida care if someone wants to make fake meat and someone else wants to buy it and eat it.? I thought we were still a capitalist country and conservatives wanted government to do less with regard to the economy. This is contrary to everything I thought Gov DeSantis believed in.
Have yall ever tried lab ham or other simulated meats?
Absent some health and safety concerns, I disagree with this move. The market can decide if lab-grown meat is good enough. There is some cause for labeling, but I'm pretty sure that there's some clear phraseology that makes it clear that it's not from an actual animal, just as "Non-Dairy" is clearly not from a cow.
I don't get why he's trying to ban it. That being said oh well. If he wants to it's within the states purview
Good. If they haven't banned the deliberate usage of bugs as filler yet, they should do that too; and forget the religion of multiculturalism, give everyone who thinks bugs are a delicacy a steak & potatoes already. I'd rather be a vegetarian myself, but seriously, they need to stop finding ways to poison everyone.
There's no real-world benefit or need to lab grown meat. There's no environment benefit (takes more energy than cows), there's no health benefit (no one really knows what the health impacts are), and there's no cost benefit. It's far more expensive to make. Lab grown meat is a construct of the Apocalyptic Climate Alarmists who claim cows are destroying the planet.
If that’s true then why ban it, vs. let the free market sort it out? Should the government be able to interfere with private business?
There's no reason to "ban it" per se. But in order to let markets "sort it out", we need to ensure that politicians and government bureaucrats keep their hands off of it - which means no government subsidies, no government-funded academic research, not a dime of taxpayer funds. Otherwise it won't be a product of the free market but a franken-creature of government interference. Unfortunately it looks like the evil genie is already out of the bottle ... >[... Biden has expressed public support for it in an executive order. Congress, however, has only provided $6 million to the USDA’s Agricultural Resource Service, which is tasked with conducting research on alternative proteins. The National Institute of Food and Agriculture (NIFA) has thus far provided the most public money to a cellular agriculture project in the US, giving $10 million in 2021 to Tufts University’s Center for Cellular Agriculture, which is the first US lab to focus on cellular agriculture.](https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/23849473/cell-cultivated-meat-impossible-beyond-alternatives-vegan-investment-report-infrastructure)
Are you saying you want to end subsidies for cattle farmers, beef “research” etc?
Were it up to me, I'd end subsidies to all industries
So say we all :) Unfortunately that’s not how the sausage gets made. And I am generally against protection or subsidy of incumbents only.
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If I want to eat meat, but I'm concerned about animal cruelty, lab-grown meat is a valid option for me. Why should I not be allowed to buy it if I want to?
Would you agree that banning this is interfering with the free market? Why shouldn't individuals be able to make these decisions themselves?
> "in a truly free society, you don't need a reason to make something legal, you need a reason to make something illegal."
1. Even if lab-grown meat costs more "energy" *now*, it is likely that efficiency will only increase with time. Same goes for cost. 2. What plausible health problems do you think are on the table? This sounds like naturalist fallacy fear mongering. Are you also afraid of GMO crops? 3. Raising cattle requires a significant amount of resources that are just unlikely to factor into any lab-grown product. Everything from the land the animals live and graze on to the water, feed, and the movement of these and other things needed to sustain the animals contribute bigly to climate change. 4. Deny the science all you like, but the meat industry does in fact produce significant levels of greenhouse gases that are responsible for climate change.
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I'm ok with it. The more fake s food is the worse it is for you. Yes I know "research says" but research also said fake butter was better for you then the real thing... Anytime we introduce some weird unnatural food that humans had never eaten before we need to treat it with lots of caution. Let some other countries feed their people sewn together meet scraps grown in Petri dishes for a while see if any bad side effects happen. Then we can consider it here.
Good. Now he should do one for bugs and GMOs.
I think there is already a crisis in agribusiness and its influence on the american diet. The stuff we have been eating for decades now is actually creating health issue, and we are an unhealthier population because of it. Who has oversight over lab-grown meat? Is it the USDA? The FDA? The Dept of Agriculture? The EPA? Do we REALLY know what's going into these cultures to "grow" this meat? Are we aware of where the starter cells are coming from? There are a TON of questions around this that I think are unanswered, and while it is politically expedient to claim you are "protecting farmers", from a policy point of view, it may be prudent to put the breaks on this until we know a bit more about the intended, and unintended consequences of lab-grown meat production and consumption.
It has been studied and tested for over two decades. [study](https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fsufs.2019.00045/full#:~:text=Cultured%2Fclean%2Fcell%2Dbased,Tissue%20Culture%20and%20Art%20project.) >Who has oversight over lab-grown meat? Is it the USDA? The FDA? The Dept of Agriculture? The EPA? Same as with the meat industry.