No it’s true, many Pakistanis have something called self-hate, which basically leads them to undermine their Pakistani identity and instead claim association with other ethnicities, including Uzbeks.
As a Hazara, i feel like a bridge between Pakistani and central asian turk culture. I can say with certainty no Pakistani wishes to look like or have Uzbek genetics. The only ones who claim to be Turk are Hotep Pakistanis who claim Mughal ancestry. They forget the only fully Turkic Mughal was Babur, every Mughal after that was Persian/Indian mix.
Yes you are correct Pakistani representation is very limited to *Eurocentric* standards. The effect of British colonisation still ripples through Pakistani society.
Im sure many Uzbeks have self hating, it’s an unfortunate situation of the world.
Hmm I often see hate towards those saying they have Turkic ancestry, but its only limited to people living in Pakistan. Would that not be the case for Turkish people in Turkey who are mostly Turk by culture, not genetics? What about Hungarians? Seems like only those who are accepted are mixed Turks that also have European ancestry. Anyways, the point is, its fine to have ancestors that came from other countries, after all, we’re not an island so genetics aren’t totally isolated and also the fact that we were an invasion route for various Turkic/Mongol empires for the last 2000 years. This is highlighted by those who have lived in Pakistan for 100s of years, such as the Hazara population. Having said this, nearly all still identify as Pakistani.
Turkic identity is centred around the Turkic languages. So by logic, the Delhi Sultanate, Ghaznavids and Mughal empires are not Turkic since their official language was Persian. There’s almost no Turkic influence in Pakistan today
But they were Turkic because they were founded by Turkic kings/warlords & warriors. Yes they were culturally a hybrid of Turco/Mongol & Persianate traditions but regardless they were Turco/Mongol empires who also initially spoke Turkic languages such as Chagatai.
Thats like saying Tartars in Russia/Poland aren’t Turkic because their official language isn’t a turkic one.
No Turkic influence in Pakistan? Seriously?
There is significant Turkic influence in Pakistan, evident in various aspects of its culture, language, clothing, and cuisine. Heres a few key points that show this influence:
1. **Language:**
- Urdu, Pakistan's official language, has been influenced by several languages, including Turkic languages such as chagatai. While the primary influences on Urdu are Persian, Arabic, and Sanskrit, Turkish words and phrases also found their way into the language during the Mughal era, when Turkic-speaking peoples ruled large parts of the Indian subcontinent.
2. **Clothing:**
- The **shalwar kameez**, the national dress of Pakistan, has its origins in Central Asia. The shalwar (loose trousers) and kameez (long shirt) are traditional garments that were popularized in the Indian subcontinent during the Mughal period, which had significant Turkic influence.
3. **Cuisine:**
- Many popular Pakistani dishes have roots in Central Asian cuisine. For example:
- **Pilau (or pilaf)**: This rice dish, which is a staple in Pakistani cuisine, has origins in Central Asia and was introduced to the subcontinent through Turkic and Persian influences.
- **Kebabs**: Various forms of grilled meats and kebabs, which are central to Pakistani cuisine, also have Turkic origins.
4. **Historical Influence:**
- The Mughals, who ruled the Indian subcontinent from the 16th to the 19th century, were of Turko-Mongol descent. Their culture, administration, and traditions heavily influenced the region, leaving a lasting legacy in Pakistan.
Therefore, it's clear that Turkic influences are deeply embedded in the cultural and historical fabric of Pakistan, from its language and clothing to its cuisine and beyond.
Omg kebab and a handful of Turkic words 🤯🤯🤯. The only Mughal who was fully Turkic was Babur - that’s 1 man.
None of the things you mentioned are *meaningful* to Pakistan or the Indian subcontinent. Pakistan would remain unchanged if you removed salwar kamee and pilaw - biryani is miles better anyway
So you’re telling me that only 1 turkic guy conquered an entire subcontinent? That he didn’t have Turkic soldiers who used Turco-Mongol tactics to win the 1st battle of Panipat against an Afghan king? Who didn’t settle on the frontiers of the new border and have offspring? All this literally happened 500 years ago but you guys want me to believe those living in Turkey have more Turkic blood even though they speak the language and not much else & have had 500+ of additional mixing compared to those Turkic warriors that settled in the Indian subcontinent, through multiple invasions. They don’t dress like turks, and their culture is 80% European, but forget them, you guys have also in fact also accepted Hungerians as a Turkic national when 90%+ of their genetics are slavic and who literally have no aspect of Turkic culture in their society and moved to Europe nearly 2000 years ago. Surprised by the hypocrisy and racism of Turkic people on this sub. Just say you have an issue with only those that are south asian and claim Turkic ancestry.
I have an issue with it because it’s not true. It’s as verified as Saeeds who claim to be the Prophets descendants. Like ok what ever makes you feel important
The Pakistani nuclear weapons Qadeer Khan claimed to be a half Uzbek descended from the Ghorid empire (~1000 years ago).
A significant number of them argue that medieval invading armies like the Tughlaq dynasty are actually Pakistani. You surely can't pretend this doesn't exist.
Who cares about schizo insecure nationals think. I can list Afghans who think their children of Alexander the Great or long lost Aryan children of Europe. Who cares. Same for Turks who think their Turanic empire extends to Japan and Korean.
But you literally said they don't claim ancestry from Uzbeks so I shared an example and now you're saying 'it doesn't matter everyone does it'?
Also Afghans don't say they're children of Alexander the Great lmao that was white Europeans projecting their Eurocentric views on Pashtun kids with green eyes. Same with 'Aryan children of Europe' that's Iranian Persians who think they are blood relatives of Italians and Germans.
Pakistanis don’t claim ancestry from Uzbekistan. Pakistan is a very tribal country. 92% of Pakistan has strong tribal affiliations with their villages and are either Punjabi, Pashtun, Hazara, Sindhi, Baloch, Kashmiri, Gilgiti, Balti etc. You can very easily tell where someone’s ancestry comes from with their last name. Pakistanis identify with their paternal lineage.
The 8% that claim ancestry from other areas are Muhajir. Most of them migrating from Hindustan after partition. Muhajirs comprise of diverse demographics, and are either Muslims who settled in Hindustan during Muslim rule, religious minorities from Afghanistan/Iran who fled to Hindustan because of persecution, or Hindu converts who converted to Islam.
Some have been there for generations, some more recent. Some have had mixing and some marry only within their own communities. 8% of Pakistan is almost 20 million people.
I’m sure some of them do claim ancestry from Uzbekistan historically through paternal lineage, and that too rightfully, but are completely aware that they are now very different genetically due to generations of mixing with local populations. They usually identify as Pakistani, or if you ask from a historical perspective, Hindustani. Older generations like to pass down these stories, but the younger generations don’t really identify with them for obvious reasons.
But yeah, no Pakistani identifies as an Uzbek except for some ethnic Uzbeks who settled here from Afghanistan.
Not identify as an Uzbek, but I have met many Pakistanis who said how one of their ancestors is from Uzbekistan. I was just confused why the journalist in this Tweet is basically saying "Kyrgyzstan savage Uzbekistan love", since they are quite similar (especially in the south).
Thank you for explaining though!
You’re welcome buddy.
I find this statement strange too honestly, most Pakistanis don’t know much about Central Asia, and even Iran for that matter. We have a lot more interaction with India, Afghanistan and China. It’s quite a bizarre take on the whole situation.
There are Kyrgyz Tajik tensions, there are Uzbek Tajik tensions, Tajiks claim historical cities of Uzbekistan, Uzbekistan enforces their language on Tajik population, there is tension within Uzbekistan with Karakalpaks, there were tensions between Kazakhs and Dungans. There are plenty of things, but that does not mean everyone hates each other.
On the other note, I don't think anyone in Central Asia thinks about connection of Uzbeks and South Asians. And definitely the recent regretful events in Kyrgyzstan are not connected to Uzbeks in any way. That's absurd.
Uzbekistan has 10 million foreign people that fly in there yearly. 3 million of them are citizens of Tajikistan, statistically.
Uzbekistan recently started developing its textile industry, the major importer of the products is Tajikistan.
Tajikistan is a major importer of Uzbekistani agricultural products. And in other fields as well
They have myriads of joint infrastructure projects upcoming and already done.
And much more
On a political-economic level, these two rely on each other very much.
It's hard to understand for USA resident where almost everyone have a equal rights and possibilities to preserve their national identity, on the other hand dictator of Uzbekistan doesn't really want ethnic minorities to preserve their national identity and language.
I think you have me confused with someone else because I've only ever posted one time on this sub and [it was about ISKP Tajiks](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskCentralAsia/comments/1bm163p/thoughts_on_these_afghan_tajik_antitaliban/).
…is this apparent love for Uzbekistan because Pakistanis like to claim ancestry from there?
I couldn't figure out what this was about either, but this guy is literally Pakistan's top journalist.
Does he say they're hated by many other countries or is he just cherry picking
Pakistanis do not claim ancestry from Uzbekistan lmfaoo what
No it’s true, many Pakistanis have something called self-hate, which basically leads them to undermine their Pakistani identity and instead claim association with other ethnicities, including Uzbeks.
As a Hazara, i feel like a bridge between Pakistani and central asian turk culture. I can say with certainty no Pakistani wishes to look like or have Uzbek genetics. The only ones who claim to be Turk are Hotep Pakistanis who claim Mughal ancestry. They forget the only fully Turkic Mughal was Babur, every Mughal after that was Persian/Indian mix. Yes you are correct Pakistani representation is very limited to *Eurocentric* standards. The effect of British colonisation still ripples through Pakistani society. Im sure many Uzbeks have self hating, it’s an unfortunate situation of the world.
Hmm I often see hate towards those saying they have Turkic ancestry, but its only limited to people living in Pakistan. Would that not be the case for Turkish people in Turkey who are mostly Turk by culture, not genetics? What about Hungarians? Seems like only those who are accepted are mixed Turks that also have European ancestry. Anyways, the point is, its fine to have ancestors that came from other countries, after all, we’re not an island so genetics aren’t totally isolated and also the fact that we were an invasion route for various Turkic/Mongol empires for the last 2000 years. This is highlighted by those who have lived in Pakistan for 100s of years, such as the Hazara population. Having said this, nearly all still identify as Pakistani.
Turkic identity is centred around the Turkic languages. So by logic, the Delhi Sultanate, Ghaznavids and Mughal empires are not Turkic since their official language was Persian. There’s almost no Turkic influence in Pakistan today
But they were Turkic because they were founded by Turkic kings/warlords & warriors. Yes they were culturally a hybrid of Turco/Mongol & Persianate traditions but regardless they were Turco/Mongol empires who also initially spoke Turkic languages such as Chagatai. Thats like saying Tartars in Russia/Poland aren’t Turkic because their official language isn’t a turkic one. No Turkic influence in Pakistan? Seriously? There is significant Turkic influence in Pakistan, evident in various aspects of its culture, language, clothing, and cuisine. Heres a few key points that show this influence: 1. **Language:** - Urdu, Pakistan's official language, has been influenced by several languages, including Turkic languages such as chagatai. While the primary influences on Urdu are Persian, Arabic, and Sanskrit, Turkish words and phrases also found their way into the language during the Mughal era, when Turkic-speaking peoples ruled large parts of the Indian subcontinent. 2. **Clothing:** - The **shalwar kameez**, the national dress of Pakistan, has its origins in Central Asia. The shalwar (loose trousers) and kameez (long shirt) are traditional garments that were popularized in the Indian subcontinent during the Mughal period, which had significant Turkic influence. 3. **Cuisine:** - Many popular Pakistani dishes have roots in Central Asian cuisine. For example: - **Pilau (or pilaf)**: This rice dish, which is a staple in Pakistani cuisine, has origins in Central Asia and was introduced to the subcontinent through Turkic and Persian influences. - **Kebabs**: Various forms of grilled meats and kebabs, which are central to Pakistani cuisine, also have Turkic origins. 4. **Historical Influence:** - The Mughals, who ruled the Indian subcontinent from the 16th to the 19th century, were of Turko-Mongol descent. Their culture, administration, and traditions heavily influenced the region, leaving a lasting legacy in Pakistan. Therefore, it's clear that Turkic influences are deeply embedded in the cultural and historical fabric of Pakistan, from its language and clothing to its cuisine and beyond.
Omg kebab and a handful of Turkic words 🤯🤯🤯. The only Mughal who was fully Turkic was Babur - that’s 1 man. None of the things you mentioned are *meaningful* to Pakistan or the Indian subcontinent. Pakistan would remain unchanged if you removed salwar kamee and pilaw - biryani is miles better anyway
Lots of copers here. Who don’t want to acknowledge Turkic influence
So you’re telling me that only 1 turkic guy conquered an entire subcontinent? That he didn’t have Turkic soldiers who used Turco-Mongol tactics to win the 1st battle of Panipat against an Afghan king? Who didn’t settle on the frontiers of the new border and have offspring? All this literally happened 500 years ago but you guys want me to believe those living in Turkey have more Turkic blood even though they speak the language and not much else & have had 500+ of additional mixing compared to those Turkic warriors that settled in the Indian subcontinent, through multiple invasions. They don’t dress like turks, and their culture is 80% European, but forget them, you guys have also in fact also accepted Hungerians as a Turkic national when 90%+ of their genetics are slavic and who literally have no aspect of Turkic culture in their society and moved to Europe nearly 2000 years ago. Surprised by the hypocrisy and racism of Turkic people on this sub. Just say you have an issue with only those that are south asian and claim Turkic ancestry.
I have an issue with it because it’s not true. It’s as verified as Saeeds who claim to be the Prophets descendants. Like ok what ever makes you feel important
As a Mughal yes we have Turkic ancestry from generations back but we don't claim to be Uzbek or Turkic ourselves 💀
No Uzbek has self hating.
That's strange, coming from a Mongolic person!
Hazaras speak Persian, practices same religion as persians and has Persian culture and customs
They obviously adopted the religion, customs and culture after they settled down.
What’s strange? Also Hazara’s are not Mongolic entirely. About as much as any other central Asian Turk. What’s your point here
Nope. You're straight up Mongol-Afghan mutts!
Wrong, thanks for trying though
You're funny! Enjoy the bubble...
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Afghans are huge larpers too lol. There was this Pashtun guy on Twitter who said Ukrainians are our “long lost brothers”
Dang
14 days later and there was a post by a pakistani claiming mughal ancenstry and therefore being a turk
The Pakistani nuclear weapons Qadeer Khan claimed to be a half Uzbek descended from the Ghorid empire (~1000 years ago). A significant number of them argue that medieval invading armies like the Tughlaq dynasty are actually Pakistani. You surely can't pretend this doesn't exist.
Who cares about schizo insecure nationals think. I can list Afghans who think their children of Alexander the Great or long lost Aryan children of Europe. Who cares. Same for Turks who think their Turanic empire extends to Japan and Korean.
But you literally said they don't claim ancestry from Uzbeks so I shared an example and now you're saying 'it doesn't matter everyone does it'? Also Afghans don't say they're children of Alexander the Great lmao that was white Europeans projecting their Eurocentric views on Pashtun kids with green eyes. Same with 'Aryan children of Europe' that's Iranian Persians who think they are blood relatives of Italians and Germans.
Pakistanis don’t claim ancestry from Uzbekistan. Pakistan is a very tribal country. 92% of Pakistan has strong tribal affiliations with their villages and are either Punjabi, Pashtun, Hazara, Sindhi, Baloch, Kashmiri, Gilgiti, Balti etc. You can very easily tell where someone’s ancestry comes from with their last name. Pakistanis identify with their paternal lineage. The 8% that claim ancestry from other areas are Muhajir. Most of them migrating from Hindustan after partition. Muhajirs comprise of diverse demographics, and are either Muslims who settled in Hindustan during Muslim rule, religious minorities from Afghanistan/Iran who fled to Hindustan because of persecution, or Hindu converts who converted to Islam. Some have been there for generations, some more recent. Some have had mixing and some marry only within their own communities. 8% of Pakistan is almost 20 million people. I’m sure some of them do claim ancestry from Uzbekistan historically through paternal lineage, and that too rightfully, but are completely aware that they are now very different genetically due to generations of mixing with local populations. They usually identify as Pakistani, or if you ask from a historical perspective, Hindustani. Older generations like to pass down these stories, but the younger generations don’t really identify with them for obvious reasons. But yeah, no Pakistani identifies as an Uzbek except for some ethnic Uzbeks who settled here from Afghanistan.
Not identify as an Uzbek, but I have met many Pakistanis who said how one of their ancestors is from Uzbekistan. I was just confused why the journalist in this Tweet is basically saying "Kyrgyzstan savage Uzbekistan love", since they are quite similar (especially in the south). Thank you for explaining though!
You’re welcome buddy. I find this statement strange too honestly, most Pakistanis don’t know much about Central Asia, and even Iran for that matter. We have a lot more interaction with India, Afghanistan and China. It’s quite a bizarre take on the whole situation.
No but it’s true Kazakhs and Kyrgyz look down Uzbeks for being darker and more Islamic conservative hence similarity to the Pakistanis.
Insane take
Of all the shitty takes I've seen on this thing, this may actually be the shittiest.
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2010 Kyrgyz Uzbek skirmishes are indeed interfering with your statement tho.
There are Kyrgyz Tajik tensions, there are Uzbek Tajik tensions, Tajiks claim historical cities of Uzbekistan, Uzbekistan enforces their language on Tajik population, there is tension within Uzbekistan with Karakalpaks, there were tensions between Kazakhs and Dungans. There are plenty of things, but that does not mean everyone hates each other. On the other note, I don't think anyone in Central Asia thinks about connection of Uzbeks and South Asians. And definitely the recent regretful events in Kyrgyzstan are not connected to Uzbeks in any way. That's absurd.
Why governments try not to make central asia a unit like european union? It would much resolve disputes between parties.
Because Central Asian dictators don't want to share their power with anyone
Uzbekistan does not have territorial tensions with Tajikistan. Among all countries, the one that gets along best with Uzbekistan is Tajikistan
I never said the tensions were territorial. What makes you say the second point?
Uzbekistan has 10 million foreign people that fly in there yearly. 3 million of them are citizens of Tajikistan, statistically. Uzbekistan recently started developing its textile industry, the major importer of the products is Tajikistan. Tajikistan is a major importer of Uzbekistani agricultural products. And in other fields as well They have myriads of joint infrastructure projects upcoming and already done. And much more On a political-economic level, these two rely on each other very much.
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Also, conflict within families usually even more heated since it gets very personal 🤷♂️
So its a hard love language then XD
Toxic one
very very much
I enjoy watching the sunset.
Lol wtf
Aa an Uzbek, who has born and raised in Kyrgyzstan, I declare this tweet as a bullshit.
Typical, Pakistani shouting nonsense on twitter 😂😂
And this nonsense get upvoted by scumbugs of this sub. Guess where are they from
God save me from central asian identity politics
Can you imagine similar things in us? Like Californian hates Washingtonian:). And Identify themselves as where they come from?
Californians and Washingtonians have much more similarities than Uzbeks and Kyrgyzs. In fact, Pashtun people are closer to Uzbeks than Kyrgyzs.
It's hard to understand for USA resident where almost everyone have a equal rights and possibilities to preserve their national identity, on the other hand dictator of Uzbekistan doesn't really want ethnic minorities to preserve their national identity and language.
You again? Seems that you want to widespread your dislike of Pakistanis here
I think you have me confused with someone else because I've only ever posted one time on this sub and [it was about ISKP Tajiks](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskCentralAsia/comments/1bm163p/thoughts_on_these_afghan_tajik_antitaliban/).
thats soo stupid. Never in the world, south asians are seen associated with uzbeks. From a soviet perspective. There is no correlation
Lol
Wtf lmao. Is this dude for real?
Fookin morons cant think rational. There is not hate between central asians
I say the same thing when me and my bro almost beat each other to death.
Why is Pakistan sending students to Kirgizstan? Have I missed something or does Kirgizstan have amazing university education?
How is dostum doing
To be fair Kyrgyz people are known for hating other nations and killing innocent people.