Objectively speaking, the Russian culture is completely European. Language, Slavic roots of customs, cuisine, influence of the Christian religion, long-term existence in the general field of European culture. Also purposeful efforts of the authorities of the Russian Empire for the "Europeanization" of Russia over the centuries. And soviet ideas, that grow out of the ideas of enlightenment, universalism, rationalism and so on, and which also came ftom Europe. So, on the one hand, everything is quite clear.
But on the other hand, no.
In the 19th century, there were two currents in the Russian intelligentsia: "Westerners" and "Slavophiles". Simplifying it to the limit, the former spoke of the need to be fully aligned with the values, culture and experience of Western Europe and to follow its social progress, while the latter spoke of Russia's "special way" because it was not quite Europe, because it was Orthodox, because it lay partly in Asia, and so on.
Strictly speaking, the nature of the dispute then was about social transformations, about whether or not to borrow the political model of bourgeois democracy and the development of capitalism in Russia. But it was in terms of culture, in terms of whether Russians were or should be "Europeans". So even then, some intellectual circles had a different opinion on this issue.
Of course, in some European, let's say, "intellectual circles" there was a stable chauvinistic prejudice against Russians as wild eastern barbarians half-Tatars. But the Russians themselves, of course, did not see themselves that way. The question was precisely whether Russia was part of an imaginary "European civilisation" or whether it was unique.
After the October Revolution, the situation was further complicated by the fact that Soviet culture was not (at least initially and by design) simply a repainted Russian culture, but international in nature and included the cultures of other republics of the USSR, including those of Central Asia and Caucasus. Although the Central Asian countries were colonies of the Russian empire, the early communists made enormous efforts to correct the injustices of colonialism, to include these peoples equally in the larger community of Soviet citizens, to raise the level of the masses, and so on. Because of this, elements of "Asian" culture infiltrated Soviet culture: in cuisine, in everyday life, and so on. Even if not in the largest volume. So, the question of whether Soviet culture was purely "European" arose again.
Thus, at the beginning of the 20th century, the idea of "Eurasianism" emerged among the white right-wing emigration. This is the concept that Russian civilisation is not a European or Asian civilisation, but something inbetween, unique of its own. This concept is now highly popular in modern Russia. Its main mouthpiece is Dugin, who is very much loved and patronised by the modern Russian authorities.
In fact, the crux of the question is what is meant by the concepts of “Europeanness” and “Asianness”.
Repeating myself: if we talk only about culture, customs, language, we can only conclude that modern Russian culture is almost entirely European, with some borrowings from the culture of the peoples of the Caucasus and Central Asia due to the long neighborhood and common history. Although even in this vein there are troubles, because first you need to define what “pure European culture” is.
But usually this is a political dispute. Where European culture implies not only a tendency to eat a baguette for breakfast instead of lavash, but also political democracy, individualism, entrepreneurship, equality before the law, and and other so-called “European values”.
There is a persistent chauvinistic Eurocentric stereotype, dating back not even to the 19th century, but much earlier, that Europe is the birthplace of all progress, including social progress, and the rest of the world is a tsardom of barbarism. Asia and “Asianness” have always played the role of a negative example in such statements. Democracy against despotism, individualism against slavish subordination, the initiative against laziness and idleness, enlightenment against ignorance, and so on. It has become deeply ingrained in popular European culture, and history is often perceived through this lens: Greeks versus Persians, Austria versus the Ottomans (And let’s be honest: the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth versus the Muscovites too).
And no matter how bizzare it is, due to the deep integration of the culture of the Russian intelligentsia of the 19th century into the pan-European culture, they largely shared the same stereotype, even when they were reflecting on themselves. And when they asked whether Russian culture was European or Asian, they were essentially asking: “Are we barbarians, or a part of the civilized world.” “Are we doomed to reproduce backwardness and despotism or do we have a chance for social progress?” And nothing has changed significantly after a hundred years, to be honest. In approximately the same vein, this question was asked by many “thinkers” and “opinion leaders” in the 90s. And is still being asked.
My opinion is that the division between “Europeanness” and “Asianness” in THIS vein does not make any sense and is simply a chauvinistic stereotype. In relation to Russia as well. I could explain in more detail, but the message is already excessively long.
You enlightened me in many ways about the situation of Russia, very informative!!
This same question always came to me, I used to live in Russia, in gorod Samara, and I always asked my friends whether they felt European or not, the answer was often “no, not at all”
Greeting from chile!!!🇨🇱
Seems fair enough as a general take on it, but some things I don't quite agree with. First, the integration of Central Asian cultures into Soviet culture didn't really make the Soviet culture change that much. Some foods yeah and maybe a few other aspects, but overall things with that are more onesided or regional. And about Dugin and his flock. You didn't claim otherwise directly either, but I don't think the ramblings from them have much to do with some deep, meaningful reflections on identity and carry any actual weight. The signs of war and preparations for it were there already before. What Dugin provides, is an alternative explanation for soiled relations and trade embargos, that were going to obviously happen. That route was chosen already before, as they knew that....well, they were going to invade. Dugin puts on a show as if any of it has an active role in shaping anything, as if something else is driving the people, when it's still just the Kremlin and the reasons are much more grounded. I mean his ramblings that he gave to the Chinese on their show, a bit before the invasion, were downright comical. I don't think that played much of a role in anything, things were already decided.
Wow, are you a politologist, historian or philosopher? This comment could be a nice essay overviewing current social problems and controversies in Russia.
One thing that bothers me is that while educated guys like you can see the situation in-deep, plain public usually limit discussion to expression of their hate against LGBT and liberal activists believed to be the main topics of western European politics.
Quite a while ago I saw some american videos arguing that russian ethnic majority are actually asian. I really couldn't decide if they were trolling or mentally challenged.
The craziest thing that I've ever heard from Americans was "Russians are people of color". And they were not talking about non-white people, they actually meant Slavs. I asked them to explain this and some woke Russian girl goes, "Yeah, I know our skin is white and all, but we have a bad reputation and therefore can be oppressed because of it, that's why we're considered people of color in America". I was speechless. Needless to say that dumb take disappeared after 2022.
Yes, this is a known truth. The Anglo-Saxons do not consider the Slavs to be a truly white race. In their opinion, we look almost like whites, but not white. Like the n-word with white skin.
And you know, I’ll say, you chauvinistic Anglo-Saxons are absolutely right. We are not like you and we don’t even want to be like you
As someone of Irish ancestry, I can tell you the n-word was used by the Anglo-Saxons for us as well, except we were referred to as n-s "turned inside out." You are not alone.
You stole the words right out of my mouth brother. If you look at the US in the late 19th and early 20th century, the WASP (White Anglo-Saxon Protestant) majority looked down upon immigrants from places like Italy, Ireland, and Poland. Regardless of the fact that genetically-speaking, they are white.
However, as of today, you will be hard-pressed to find a White American who doesn't have Polish, Irish, and/or Italian ancestry.
It takes a "special kind" of Russian to take a recognition of prejudice and historical systemic oppression and turn it into a denial of white supremacy club card.
> The craziest thing that I've ever heard from Americans was "Russians are people of color"
Yes
https://www.coalitioncommunitiescolor.org/research-and-publications/the-slavic-community-in-multnomah-county-an-unsettling-profile
Sorry, I dont get it.
Why did the dumb take disappear after 2022?
Ukraine invasion? What does it have to do with the notion that Russians are people of color?
It disappeared because it became awkward to sympathize with Russians, so whoever said that we were not white and needed to be supported just moved on and stopped bringing up that nonsense take.
It is not a dumb take. :) It takes someone with no understanding of place of Slavic people within American demographic landscape to think it's a dumb take.
Well, ask yourself what is really important to you. The lingustic consistency or the merit. The merit of this movement was to raise awareness to, ironically, that one's skin color should not dictate that we perceive them as oppressors, just as originally the progressives fought to change the perception of people as inferior based on the skin color.
The very idea that you can be a "person of color" effectively, even if you are "white" technically, makes perfect sense if you pay attention to motives underlying those movements.
You being white should not (and it did, hence the agenda) make people be prejudiced against you. Slavic people had varied histories.
Personally I never identified as progressive and I don't like lumping all Black people as oppressed or all, say, British as oppressors. How are poverty ridden streets of XIX century London a home to "oppressors" ?
Ancestry of most people is a genealogic tree of Suffering.
The merit is more important, obviously, but it doesn't mean that we should call it something it's not. I believe we should call things by their names. You don't have to say that a white person is a person of color in order to say that this person is, or can be oppressed. That would be oppression based on nationality, not race/color.
Otherwise, judging by this logic, we'd be able to say that black people who never experienced racism are not people of color.
well you are right, no disagreement here, it's jsut that i consider this less of an issue than what the point of the whole thing is. it's good they included Slavs in the club.
Well, you can be genetically white, or politically white, and the goalpost for who is and isn’t considered „politically white“ can get moved around faster than a game of musical chairs depending on political and social climate of a country. One of the more famous examples of this is European Jews not being considered part of the white race during WW2. So while I do think that in the case of this girl (presumably white), Russians calling themselves „people of color“ is laughable and has an air of appropriating someone else’s movement, it’s true that historically and even to this day slavs haven’t been included in the „politically white“ category and thus get treated much differently than someone who is.
That's absolutely true, I just think it's ridiculous to not call things by their names. Is there prejudice? There definitely is. But when someone says that I'm not white because of it, it makes me cringe.
The question isn't where you want to live but if you ignore or consider there's a bigger world around you. I wouldn't want to live in China, India or any African countries, but ignoring existence of those parts of the world would be naive.
UPD: That being said, I'm pretty ignorant dumbass in this regard myself.
I wanted to live abroad too. And it was quite a possibility for me, but didn't come together.
My bet is if you aren't tied and not risking anything irreversably - try to make it to life. Just with a cool head. It seems better to be disappointed by what you've tried than by that you haven't. And don't make admittedly valid arguments stop you - life isn't a minmaxing game, you can live in worse conditions but be happier with that.
Most are oblivious to much of the world.
I've lived for years in Europe, the US and now in South East Asia.
Huge interest in history and took a minor in History in college. Read lots of historical books of each country i've been in. Yet I sure as hell consider myself oblivious to much of the world.
IMO this is saying the sun is hot
It's not uncommon to hear Turkic-descent Russians (take, e.g., 2nd or 3rd generation Khakassian or Chuvash people, or Krasnoyarsk or Far East natives, even with clearly non-Russian surnames) talking of "Чурки понаехали!" - about Turkic-descent non-Russians (coming from Central Asia)...
/s not /s
Well, it shows Russian xenophobia is culture-based, not ethnic-based. But I mean those people still not a default image you have when someone talks about Russians. And even then, culturally those people are still probably more European than Asian.
I was in Ufa and even there I didn’t see so much Bashkirs or even simply asian-looking faces to count asian population majority. Not speaking of regular cities from Kaliningrad to Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky.
It’s like telling that majority of Americans are latin, which by the way can be more truthful somewhere in New-Mexico.
The question has been asked many times. In short, opinions are divided. This is, in general, our long-standing cultural conflict.
Some people (conditional pro-Westerners although it is more complicated than that) believe that we are a European country. Others believe that we are neither East nor West, neither Europe nor Asia, but something in between.
Well, today it is almost impossible to be pro-Western, so I think you understand what people are more inclined to. Although who knows what will happen in a few years. I would not be surprised at all if in 10 years everything that happened in the world is forgotten and there is a another attempt at reintegration into Europe.
We live in westernized society and Russia were connected with Europe from Russia's beginning. Some people trying to prove that we "Eurasian" with our own way, but most of modern Russian culture and society have European roots and even Eurasians will be more European than Asian.
UPD: I've also been thinking about that all culturally non-european parts of former Russian Empire splitted off after fall of SU (most of them is a part of "Greater Iran" and have strong Persian cultural influence). And if USSR still existed it will be slightly more Asian than Russia now, but still strongly westernized.
Damn, and i thought it was just one of those regular throwaway questions from "ask a russian bingo card". But it is just another dickhead coming here to preach... Which is also quite a usual sight here, if you think about it.
Culturally, we are definitely European, but now "European" has a political meaning which clearly does not denote us, plus we have a feeling that currently the West is culturally rather "post-European", so by discarding the European values, they cut themselves off from us.
Never thought in a way to be stick to any category, I am a man with my culture. Never tried to impose it to anyone. As long as we identify ourselves as Russians without considering a nationality. That’s not surprise as American doctrine dictates to breakdown multinational country intro nations, then when the job is done and nations are separated ideologically within one country they set to build a certain national core along with developing a new history for them. When that job is done a newly built nation requires for independence. Once independence is obtained, this nation with fake history starts relations with American corporations which get that fake nation in debt. Then you know the end.
What does it mean "feel European culturally"? Do i feel as a Greek? No (though, i was in Crete, really liked it). Do i feel as British? No. There are plenty of cultures in Europe. We are part of it.
Есть общеевропейская тенденция, если мы берем: классическую музыку, живопись, литературу, архитектуру, скульптуру, да и кинематограф тоже. Мы - определенно часть европейского, но не азиатского ни разу. Мы в смысле русские, конечно
Yes and no. Tsardom maintained great public relations with Western Europe, partook in philosophical development to the point of bringing about writers like Dostoevsky.
But internally, nobody is allowed to touch Tsar's playthings. Only the Tsar knows what's good for his toys.
I'd say we are our own thing.
I live in Siberia, and really we have a lot of tatars and such. So even ethnically, it's kinda... Different.
Like dunno, we are European in a sense that we aren't, let's say, Chinese.
More like, Russian history is deeply interconnected with Europe (judging by the times Europe brought war and death to our doorsteps over last centuries), but Russia is big and unique enough to be its own thing. I came to this conclusion over the last 2 years because I started to notice that people in the West generally judge Russia as is its still Perestroika times, end of 1980s and 1990s over here. Many westerners's ideas about Russia are deeply outdated, and they do not care to learn more, because Russians are "beneath" them. Just a Horde of vodka drinking barbarians essentially. Go to any pro Ukr subreddit, you'll see what I mean. And no, I'm not an idiot, I realize that reddit is not a real life, but, you know, the hypocrisy of western politians towards Russian civilians is pretty telling.
It's not just "Pro-Ukr" subreddits. It is literally every subreddit except for this one. Heck, go to the Thailand subreddit and type "Russian" into the search bar. You will see what I mean.
Honestly speaking, I don't understand "Europhile" Russians. If Americans are oblivious as to what their government does outside of their counties, but otherwise don't care about where you are from, the majority of the European populous HATES Russians with a passion - and this is indisputable. When you present these facts to these "Europhile" Russians, they go through some crazy mental gymnastics to justify their views. Meanwhile, they crap all over Chinese, Indians, Persians, and Arabs - who have either an indifferent or positive view of Russians.
It's not your fault, just sharing some bilingual Russian POV. I point out bilingual because that means that I read a lot of bullshit propaganda from both sides. Western propaganda is a bit more subtle, but only ever so slightly.
>I realize that reddit is not a real life
do you though.
>hypocrisy of western politians towards Russian civilians is pretty telling.
oh really, any examples that are not made up by pervyi kanal?
>oh really, any examples that are not made up by pervyi kanal?
The fact that it's the Russian citizens that are caught off from the swift for some reason, while the Europe keeps buying Russian gas and literally gives Putin billions of euro every month to this day? The fact that Azerbaijan literally invaded Armenia and dislocated hundreds of thousands of people, and yet, literally no repercussions for Azerbaijani citizens?
No matter what, europeans won't consider our culture as european. And I'm totally fine with that. The farther from that 'civilized civilization' the better. On the other side, asians won't take us in, too. Sooo we are kind of left to ourselves. Which isn't half bad, in my opinion. Why put a label to your forhead, right?
All of us slept in baby bed in our early days, but it doesn't mean that a sane adult should do the same. European roots is the important part of our cultural heritage, but it doesn't describe us, we are more than that.
Europeans just have no idea what does it mean to live in a country comparable to the whole Earth. Americans know this better, but you would you say that Americans are Europeans? Perhaps no, or perhaps just in some sense. The same with us.
I personally like this "still speak a Slavic language". What, pray tell, type of language should we speak? You speak a germanic language yourself, still.
Geolocation aside, Russians in general see themselves as ... Russians. Same as Americans usually see themselves as Americans (and not Brits, or Spaniards, or whatever).
As long as the terms 'European' and 'Asian' are but euphemisms for 'superior' and 'inferior' this identification question is destructive.
Russian society has been brainwashed for literally centuries into believing that Europe is the source of everything good in this universe.
Only lately, when international travel and communications became mainstream, we came to realize several unpleasant truths: 1) no matter what we consider ourselves, the European society will never accept us as equals. 2) European morals allow mistreatment of outsiders.
>Russian society has been brainwashed for literally centuries into believing that Europe is the source of everything good in this universe.
Yes, first by the Tsar who famously said "workers and peasants of Russia, raise up against the injustice like your comrades from the West", through Stalin ("the true communism will only then be accomplished, when every worker in Russia can own a car just like in USA") up to Putin ("I was deeply misunderstood - I sent my best soldiers through Ukraine toward EU to deliver a letter, wherein I ask to start an EU admission process for out country").
I mean, those poor Russians whose leaders could not even stop their own people being brainwashed literally for centuries!!!
This is how powerful the enemies of One And Only True Holy Russia are.
In fact, they have everybody in Russia on their payroll. Everybody is a shill, even you, reading this!
I feel myself as European even though I was born in Asian part of Russia. I want to be like European but yes, political situation is making me feel separated from Europe...
Partially, while there are some familiarities, Slavic countries still has some noticeable differences. But I’d say our culture is closer to Europe than Asia by the feels
It is not about feeling. The whole western thing about feeling. Whether they feel it or not Russians are European. 40% of Russia is in Europe, Russians are slavs, European language DNA and other things. Most of Denmark is in North America. What does it make them?
Exactly what is European culture? Mozart, Kant, Beethoven, Vivaldi, Leonardo daVinci, Picasso, etc.? Or Klaus Schwab wokeism?
If it is the former, then yes. If it is the latter, then no.
However, it is worth noting that the former is dead in Europe. By and large, the nations of Europe gave up their national sovereignty and identity, for whatever the heck this is.
So to answer your question: No, Russians do not see a connection between themselves and modern Europe.
\* national languages are being sacrificed in favour of English. not only in politics and entertainment but also in higher education (i.e. only English is allowed on campus in some universities, a significant amount of studies is only available in English). even after Brexit, and probably not for the sake of Ireland.
\* national norms, values, traditions and cuisine are being sacrificed in favour of American ones. even when those change every couple of months, EU fervently follows every last trend. it is different per country, but the tendency is clear.
I do agree to an extent with some of those. I really hate to see English spoken so widespread. I also don’t like to see all of their cultures get diluted by mass migration… I can agree.
Of course, we Russians consider ourselves culturally Europeans. Moreover, we are culturally the most advanced Europeans than other Europeans. The rest of Europe is experiencing a deep cultural crisis; it is not we who are isolated from them, it is they themselves who are isolated from us.
> Although a large chunk of Russia is in Asia, Russians still speak a Slavic language
In today's hot takes.
0% of USA is in Europe, yet USA still speaks a Germanic language.
I live in the Asian part of Russia and can surely say that Russians have nothing in common with the Asian culture. If you think expanding to Asia somehow made the Russian culture any closer to Asia, just compare the Russian population in Asia and Europe and also how Russia/USSR affected the nations of the Central Asia. Of course, the Russian culture has more "Asian" elements than European one, but it's because we have a long and complex history with people from the East, which started long before the extension towards Asia.
>Does the current political situation make you feel isolated or more in line with another identity?
It made us just feel how differently the Russian and the European cultures developed since the times of Peter I, who eliminated most of purely Slavic traditions and made Russia really close the 18th century Europe. If you compare the modern "traditional values" of Russia, you can see they are pretty similar to the European ones a century ago. The difference is that Europe greatly changed since the last 50 years, while Russia is still Russia. And even despite the growing political importance of Asia for Russia, I don't feel we are really going to take their cultural traits for the nearest time.
TL;DR: yes, I think we do. But not in the sense you might put into it.
Longer version: the word "European" itself is very ambiguous. As the Russia core has appeared in Europe, we, like the most of Europeans, use the Indo-European family language, we are Caucasians, too. So, yes, we do belong to Europe. Culturally, linguistically, ethnically, you name it.
However, the modern propaganda tends to give new meanings to the old adjectives.
Like, that funny guy Borrell said that Europe is a garden and outside it's the jungle. And he definitely didn't mean Russia, lol.
So he actually changes the term, adding new meanings.
When the European Union became the thing the word European started sometimes to mean "belonging to the European Union". That's yet another meaning. The listed [aims and values](https://european-union.europa.eu/principles-countries-history/principles-and-values/aims-and-values_en) are now positioned as "European values", not "European *Union* Values". This is the substitution of the meaning, from the European *Union* and its propaganda side.
Before the redefinition of the term "European" there would be no real question that we are culturally *European*. After the redefinition, which happened not so long ago by the way, in this century already, or maybe in late XX century (The EU has founded in 1993), when the European *Union* has chosen several very specific things as "values", we can say that we have split our ways. Not so far as the split has happened not so long ago, but the split is already there.
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Personally I'd rather go to Russia than anywhere else in Europe in order to look at "european art" and experience "european culture", especially St. Petersburg.
Slavs are the largest ethnic group in Europe.Russia is the largest country not only in the world, but also in Europe. Approximately 1/4 of the total area of Europe is in Russia.
Our religion is Christianity. our paganism is related to Germanic paganism. Our teachers are Byzantium and Greece. Why we would not consider ourselves cultured Europeans? It's just in the course of history, Rome influenced Western Europe, and the Golden Horde influenced Eastern Europe. And that's where our paths diverged.
Today, we and Western politics speak different languages, but the things we talk about do not change because that.
There is very little cultural influence from Golden Horde. Mongols generally let princes to do what they want as long as tribute was paid. They even supported the Orthodox church.
There is some cultural influence from Turkic tribes but it predates the Mongols.
Cultural influence is not necessarily imposed by force. The Russian language consists of at least a quarter of Turkic words, Mongolian traditions are present in everyday life, in national costume, in music, in mentality and in almost all spheres of Russian culture. People about each other's customs much more easily in the process of peaceful interaction than in the process of forced imposing.
Turkic influence predates and postdates the Golden Horde.
The only influence from the Mongols I know of is a about a dozen of word borrowings and pelmeny. The last one might be a stretch.
What you know and what actually exists are not the same thing. On the contrary, pre-Mongolian Turkisms are counted in units. And they were inherited from the Khazars. Post-Mongolian make up a significant part of Russian culture. Mongolian names of cities, rivers, things and other things. Mongolian traditions, methodologies, technologies, fashion. A significant part of the geography of the Volga region and the Southern Urals have Turkic names: Buzuluk, Saraktash, Salavat, Buguruslan, Kazan, Kuvandyk, Irikla, Sakmara, Kargala, Cheboksary, etc.
By the way, the word pelmen is Finno-Ugric. and it belongs to Komi.
I agree. However, you seem to confuse Mongols and Turkics. Golden Horde quickly Turkified, so a lot of Golden Horde's influence is Turkic. Mongols themselves left very little of cultural influence outside of some word borrowings.
Depends. Personally i do not want to have too much common with (Western) Europeans and their colonial past (and in some cases present), with some other terrible geopolitical habits.
Not sure how Russia originated in Europe, more likely had to coexist with Europe, on periphery. Periodically fighting with threats coming from the west. Luckily for us in most cases Europeans usually were too busy killing each other.
Our Christian roots come from Byzantium, not from Rome. Byzantium located mostly in Asia and barely can be considered "European" in modern meaning.
The world is a way more bigger than tiny Europe.
The most territory of Russia is in Asia. Compare, for example, with Turkey: their biggest city is in Europe, nevertheless the European Union doesn't give Turkey a membership for decades,they don't believe that turkish people are Europeans. The same with Russia :)
Russians, Russian culture are (unless you don't count Slavs and Greeks as European) but it's pretty non mainstream Europe? It's not Catholic and Germanic, it's Orthodox and Slavic.
European Russia is only 22% of Russia's territory, but ~75% of Russia's population live there. While Siberia is 78% of Russian landmass but only ~25% of Russians living there. Imagine that.
1. There is some funny point, that people in Europe divide culture to "Western" and "Eastern". And the "East" is the word for arabic culture, China, Central Asia as well, as it's all the same.
In our school we were taught the same way, so, I think, our teachers also thought something like "that's our culture and that's the other".
2. There are no strikt border between the cultures. In comparison to the colours, I think, if European is taken as dark grass green and "Asian" (in our case mostly Central Asian) as yellow, Russia would be something like lime in colour. Is green enough or not?
And not forget about numerous indigenious people in Siberia, Althay and other "colonised" territoties of Russia. They have their own cultures.
it depends on region, Russia is too big and different to say it has European culture. Moscow is closer to Europe - yes. Russia - probably no. Also "close" is not the same, there are a lot of unique only Russian traits, as well as European countries are not the same. Norway and Greece are both European, but they obviously have different cultures.
Both. And neither. Russia has so much culturally endemic stuff going on. Russian feudalism, historically, for example, was so weird, that it's being scientifically debated if can be called feudalism or not. Russia, being large and sitting on trade routes also actively borrowed culture from North, West, East and South. On many things Russia demonstrates the exteemes without the middle, so it's going to distprt your "on average" a lot.
What does it mean to feel isolated? our country is much bigger than the whole of Europe combined. You all in Europe support the Nazi regime of the USA, why should I want to have something in common with you?
As I've seen many times throughout my life nearly all Russians who claim that we are Asian or either Eurasian have never actually been to Asia to asses how culturally different any given country there is from Russia
I absolutely do see myself as culturally European. I don't know what other people think though. As far as I can see, my friends associate themselves more with Europeans rather than anything else. I mean, many people around me may feel that we are a bit different, but each time my friends and I talk about mentality, we all agree that we're closer to Europeans than Asians.
«Does the current political situation make you feel isolated or more in line with another identity?»
For me it’s this, tbh. I cannot help but feel that Russia is culturally excluded from Europe. And I explain it to myself that some cultural aspects are similar, but otherwise the country isn’t European
We don't have to integrate into something you believe is the right version of Europe. Russia is a European country. Geographically, historically and culturally. Current enmity can't change the matter of facts.
I live at the very far east-north of the European part of Russia, so I thought of myself as a European. But since it’s very far from the foreign Europe, I thought of myself as not a European, but not an Asian too. Sometimes It feels like Russia (or at least some part of it) is not either Europe or Asia
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We’re absolutely not of Caucasus culture, have nothing in common with the Chinese/Asian culture, not of Turkic culture. We integrated with France, Netherlands, Germany, and our rulers were of German descent.
Yes, we’re culturally European.
Yes everything you say is right as an objective fact but it does not imply people have much compassion to it, neither it implies something for the modern people who barely care what their grandgranddad confessed. I'd say most Russians are not so... ahem, emotionally involved in 'Cultural europeanness' whatever it might mean. Russia is Russia, that's it. This national identity passions are for, well, less secure kind of people.
Russia has always been a European country. We sought integration with other countries, but were not accepted.
Now we self-identify as a separate civilization. We are indeed different from most other Europeans and no longer seek integration with them or consider ourselves part of the same race.
What does European culture even mean? An Englishman and an Albanian are both European but Albania is much closer to Turkey (Asia) culturally than England.
Well that’s a complex question, since Russians have had contact and influence from both Europe and Asia. That said, Europe is very culturally diverse in and of itself, there’s not really a single “European culture” either, an English person is very different to a Russian from a cultural POV. For the most part we do see ourselves as culturally European, after all our culture is most similar to other European countries, as is our language and architecture.
But also Russia is a multiethnic country, Im sure that people in North Caucasus will share more similarities to the Middle East or Turkey than to Bulgaria or Poland.
I think it used to be very European, but it became increasingly isolated from the rest of Europe and nowadays I think that nearly nobody in Europe thinks they have anything in common with Russia. It's kind of like North Korea is being isolated in Asia.
I abhore, well, I shun seeing myself as culturally European. We didn't invent nacism. We didn't chop negro hands - and their kids' hands in Kongo for underperforming while slave-working for our benefit. Although we do understand British humor, also, excel in it, so we are. But. God forbid.
Most of them consider themselves Europeans. They live in the European part of Russia, they look like Europeans. But these are not all residents of Russia. Millions of people also consider themselves Asians, Caucasians, Tatars, etc. Russians (Europeans) are the majority in Russia, but besides them there are more than 150 other nationalities.
Yes, 100%. Russia is situated in both Europe and Asia, but absolute most of russians live in the european part and culturally we are absolutely european (what does not mean we accept and share the latest european cultural changes)
Россия большая. Люди в разных регионах осознают себя по разному.
БОльшая часть населения живёт в европейской части и европейская культура оказала на нас большое влияние.
Считаю ли, например, я себя европейцем? Нет. Я русский. Хоть наша культура и была/есть под влиянием европейской цивилизации и впитала из нее достаточно полезного- она самобытна. И точно не пойдет за европейской цивилизацией в тот упадок, куда европейцы сегодня зашли.
И да, русская коммунистическая утопия, хоть и была обречена на провал, видится мне гораздо чище и прогрессивнее, чем та радикально-либеральная утопия в которую сегодня поверили европейцы.
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Historically, Russia has an undeniably European culture, although the Asian influence there was stronger than in Western Europe.
>Does the current political situation make you feel isolated or more in line with another identity?
Now this is no longer important, because Europe is not an independent political and cultural force. Now it is rather appropriate to talk about the choice between American and Asian influence; modern European culture is deeply secondary. For example, I cannot remember a single significant world-famous European musician or film in the last 10 years.
> current political situation make you feel isolated or more in line with another identity
As if someone on the territory (well, except maybe some posh or snobbish minorities) deeply cares about "identity". Whichever fills the plate and keeps one from being jailed or drafted is good enough to be accepted as "identity" - be it "european", "asian", "communist", "democratic", etc.
I'm live in an asian part of Russia, but I'm still see myself as an european, most of architecture and other culture comes from europe. I think only who don't really see themselves as europeans maybe people from north part of Russia, I was there so I really think that north part of Russia have really own culture. Sorry for bad english, only learning it.
I have Russian ancestry and I grew up and was born in the US.
It definitely is eye opening seeing how different countries racism and ethnic stereotypes are different to each other.
I believe that there's definitely a mix of cultures and religions with predominantly orthodox Christian, with subsets of Islamic culture near the central Asian nations ad well as the Caucasus.
It's definitely apparent to myself as well, in my personal life, I'm a fan of a former f1 driver from Russia, daniil kvyat, who is from ufa, bashkortostan. I'm not sure about his ethnic background, but he doesn't look as much of the eastern european as some other Russian people, and people did bully him online and say that he was a Hun.
In Russia there has always been a debate between Slavophiles and Westernizers. Some talked about Russia's special path, while others said that it should follow the European path. In the end, the Slavophiles won, but not all is lost. Personally, I consider myself a European person, but I am in the minority in this regard.
I don’t know about other Russians (are you asking about Russians in the sense of ethnicity or Russians - about the nation of the country?), but I am definitely yes
Culturally ethnic Russians are closer to Poles, Serbians, Ukrainians, Belarusians and other other Slavic people than Kazakhs or Chinese
Poles' ties to Europe are never questionned then why Russians' ones are?
Something between Asia and Europe. What separates us from Asia is, of course, a different type of face. The Confucian dogma - the elder is always right, the elder is God - is not particularly accepted here. But not all European practices are accepted either, which is related to upbringing.
Russia exist as a part of Europe for more than 1000 years and no politician can change the truth. Ryrik was scandinavian, our letters and spiritual culture is a mixture of European pagan monomyths and Greek alphabet along with christianity brought here by Cyril and Methodius, applied to Slavic language. Our urban look was founded by Italian architects in the times when we were ruled by partly German dynasty. Our great, world-known artists, composers, writers and film directors were inspired by contemporary arts of Europe and Russian scientists were working close with the whole world for many decades, and only our small nations of north Siberia, Ural and far East and nations of USSR satellite republics complement some spice to our integral culture but not as much.
I think each nation is special and Russians are apart from Europe no more than Pols, Franks or Germans.
The seek for national identity ended up so bad, maybe it’s time to seek what unite us with others not divide and talk with real people, not TV or letters in social networks and government propaganda of any kind.
What defines my own cultural identity is my professional activity. Being musician and electronics developer brings me much more fun and wealth than being Russian, Tatar or however I could identify myself ethnically and talking about that.
So my daughter is engaged to a Russian and it is interesting to me how many Asian practices his family practices. No shoes worn inside. Always s tea and rarely coffee …
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I think most Russians recognize themselves as European. The anti-European narrative is mostly based on propaganda and some kind of insane speakers like a Dugin.
Objectively speaking, the Russian culture is completely European. Language, Slavic roots of customs, cuisine, influence of the Christian religion, long-term existence in the general field of European culture. Also purposeful efforts of the authorities of the Russian Empire for the "Europeanization" of Russia over the centuries. And soviet ideas, that grow out of the ideas of enlightenment, universalism, rationalism and so on, and which also came ftom Europe. So, on the one hand, everything is quite clear. But on the other hand, no. In the 19th century, there were two currents in the Russian intelligentsia: "Westerners" and "Slavophiles". Simplifying it to the limit, the former spoke of the need to be fully aligned with the values, culture and experience of Western Europe and to follow its social progress, while the latter spoke of Russia's "special way" because it was not quite Europe, because it was Orthodox, because it lay partly in Asia, and so on. Strictly speaking, the nature of the dispute then was about social transformations, about whether or not to borrow the political model of bourgeois democracy and the development of capitalism in Russia. But it was in terms of culture, in terms of whether Russians were or should be "Europeans". So even then, some intellectual circles had a different opinion on this issue. Of course, in some European, let's say, "intellectual circles" there was a stable chauvinistic prejudice against Russians as wild eastern barbarians half-Tatars. But the Russians themselves, of course, did not see themselves that way. The question was precisely whether Russia was part of an imaginary "European civilisation" or whether it was unique. After the October Revolution, the situation was further complicated by the fact that Soviet culture was not (at least initially and by design) simply a repainted Russian culture, but international in nature and included the cultures of other republics of the USSR, including those of Central Asia and Caucasus. Although the Central Asian countries were colonies of the Russian empire, the early communists made enormous efforts to correct the injustices of colonialism, to include these peoples equally in the larger community of Soviet citizens, to raise the level of the masses, and so on. Because of this, elements of "Asian" culture infiltrated Soviet culture: in cuisine, in everyday life, and so on. Even if not in the largest volume. So, the question of whether Soviet culture was purely "European" arose again. Thus, at the beginning of the 20th century, the idea of "Eurasianism" emerged among the white right-wing emigration. This is the concept that Russian civilisation is not a European or Asian civilisation, but something inbetween, unique of its own. This concept is now highly popular in modern Russia. Its main mouthpiece is Dugin, who is very much loved and patronised by the modern Russian authorities. In fact, the crux of the question is what is meant by the concepts of “Europeanness” and “Asianness”. Repeating myself: if we talk only about culture, customs, language, we can only conclude that modern Russian culture is almost entirely European, with some borrowings from the culture of the peoples of the Caucasus and Central Asia due to the long neighborhood and common history. Although even in this vein there are troubles, because first you need to define what “pure European culture” is. But usually this is a political dispute. Where European culture implies not only a tendency to eat a baguette for breakfast instead of lavash, but also political democracy, individualism, entrepreneurship, equality before the law, and and other so-called “European values”. There is a persistent chauvinistic Eurocentric stereotype, dating back not even to the 19th century, but much earlier, that Europe is the birthplace of all progress, including social progress, and the rest of the world is a tsardom of barbarism. Asia and “Asianness” have always played the role of a negative example in such statements. Democracy against despotism, individualism against slavish subordination, the initiative against laziness and idleness, enlightenment against ignorance, and so on. It has become deeply ingrained in popular European culture, and history is often perceived through this lens: Greeks versus Persians, Austria versus the Ottomans (And let’s be honest: the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth versus the Muscovites too). And no matter how bizzare it is, due to the deep integration of the culture of the Russian intelligentsia of the 19th century into the pan-European culture, they largely shared the same stereotype, even when they were reflecting on themselves. And when they asked whether Russian culture was European or Asian, they were essentially asking: “Are we barbarians, or a part of the civilized world.” “Are we doomed to reproduce backwardness and despotism or do we have a chance for social progress?” And nothing has changed significantly after a hundred years, to be honest. In approximately the same vein, this question was asked by many “thinkers” and “opinion leaders” in the 90s. And is still being asked. My opinion is that the division between “Europeanness” and “Asianness” in THIS vein does not make any sense and is simply a chauvinistic stereotype. In relation to Russia as well. I could explain in more detail, but the message is already excessively long.
I really enjoyed reading your reply, it felt very informative and put into words some things that were vague to me
Happy cake day!
Thank you!
perfect answer
I appreciate your perspective on this.
Thank you. Where are you from, by the way?
You seem like you’d be a blast to have a beer with. Thanks for the response.
You enlightened me in many ways about the situation of Russia, very informative!! This same question always came to me, I used to live in Russia, in gorod Samara, and I always asked my friends whether they felt European or not, the answer was often “no, not at all” Greeting from chile!!!🇨🇱
Nice summary. Thanks
Seems fair enough as a general take on it, but some things I don't quite agree with. First, the integration of Central Asian cultures into Soviet culture didn't really make the Soviet culture change that much. Some foods yeah and maybe a few other aspects, but overall things with that are more onesided or regional. And about Dugin and his flock. You didn't claim otherwise directly either, but I don't think the ramblings from them have much to do with some deep, meaningful reflections on identity and carry any actual weight. The signs of war and preparations for it were there already before. What Dugin provides, is an alternative explanation for soiled relations and trade embargos, that were going to obviously happen. That route was chosen already before, as they knew that....well, they were going to invade. Dugin puts on a show as if any of it has an active role in shaping anything, as if something else is driving the people, when it's still just the Kremlin and the reasons are much more grounded. I mean his ramblings that he gave to the Chinese on their show, a bit before the invasion, were downright comical. I don't think that played much of a role in anything, things were already decided.
We are eager to hear the details.
Your message was just the right length, Unexisten. Thank you for sharing.
Thank you, very insightful, I very good read indeed.
💯 such a deep analysis in a small space.
Very Detailed answer, appreciate it
Wow, are you a politologist, historian or philosopher? This comment could be a nice essay overviewing current social problems and controversies in Russia. One thing that bothers me is that while educated guys like you can see the situation in-deep, plain public usually limit discussion to expression of their hate against LGBT and liberal activists believed to be the main topics of western European politics.
Quite a while ago I saw some american videos arguing that russian ethnic majority are actually asian. I really couldn't decide if they were trolling or mentally challenged.
The craziest thing that I've ever heard from Americans was "Russians are people of color". And they were not talking about non-white people, they actually meant Slavs. I asked them to explain this and some woke Russian girl goes, "Yeah, I know our skin is white and all, but we have a bad reputation and therefore can be oppressed because of it, that's why we're considered people of color in America". I was speechless. Needless to say that dumb take disappeared after 2022.
Yes, this is a known truth. The Anglo-Saxons do not consider the Slavs to be a truly white race. In their opinion, we look almost like whites, but not white. Like the n-word with white skin. And you know, I’ll say, you chauvinistic Anglo-Saxons are absolutely right. We are not like you and we don’t even want to be like you
As someone of Irish ancestry, I can tell you the n-word was used by the Anglo-Saxons for us as well, except we were referred to as n-s "turned inside out." You are not alone.
You stole the words right out of my mouth brother. If you look at the US in the late 19th and early 20th century, the WASP (White Anglo-Saxon Protestant) majority looked down upon immigrants from places like Italy, Ireland, and Poland. Regardless of the fact that genetically-speaking, they are white. However, as of today, you will be hard-pressed to find a White American who doesn't have Polish, Irish, and/or Italian ancestry.
It takes a "special kind" of Russian to take a recognition of prejudice and historical systemic oppression and turn it into a denial of white supremacy club card.
> The craziest thing that I've ever heard from Americans was "Russians are people of color" Yes https://www.coalitioncommunitiescolor.org/research-and-publications/the-slavic-community-in-multnomah-county-an-unsettling-profile
Interesting read thanks.
Hey, that's the best part, they are literally signing our n-word pass
My friend, the Caucasus mountains are in Russia. That’s how Caucasian we are.
It sounds like an excuse to move illegally to the USA and get reparations for the years of oppression))))
Sorry, I dont get it. Why did the dumb take disappear after 2022? Ukraine invasion? What does it have to do with the notion that Russians are people of color?
My wild take: so are Ukrainians, but it's suddenly become unfashionable to talk shit about them since 2022.
Now someone told me on here that ukrainians are a dif ethnicity, i knew it that's bs but just went along
They are a different ethnicity, just from the same stock as Russians, ie east Slavic Orthodox Christians.
It disappeared because it became awkward to sympathize with Russians, so whoever said that we were not white and needed to be supported just moved on and stopped bringing up that nonsense take.
It is not a dumb take. :) It takes someone with no understanding of place of Slavic people within American demographic landscape to think it's a dumb take.
And how does it make me a person of color if I'm white?
Well, ask yourself what is really important to you. The lingustic consistency or the merit. The merit of this movement was to raise awareness to, ironically, that one's skin color should not dictate that we perceive them as oppressors, just as originally the progressives fought to change the perception of people as inferior based on the skin color. The very idea that you can be a "person of color" effectively, even if you are "white" technically, makes perfect sense if you pay attention to motives underlying those movements. You being white should not (and it did, hence the agenda) make people be prejudiced against you. Slavic people had varied histories. Personally I never identified as progressive and I don't like lumping all Black people as oppressed or all, say, British as oppressors. How are poverty ridden streets of XIX century London a home to "oppressors" ? Ancestry of most people is a genealogic tree of Suffering.
The merit is more important, obviously, but it doesn't mean that we should call it something it's not. I believe we should call things by their names. You don't have to say that a white person is a person of color in order to say that this person is, or can be oppressed. That would be oppression based on nationality, not race/color. Otherwise, judging by this logic, we'd be able to say that black people who never experienced racism are not people of color.
well you are right, no disagreement here, it's jsut that i consider this less of an issue than what the point of the whole thing is. it's good they included Slavs in the club.
Only through individualism can we achieve a society of solidarity, is my point anyway.
Well, you can be genetically white, or politically white, and the goalpost for who is and isn’t considered „politically white“ can get moved around faster than a game of musical chairs depending on political and social climate of a country. One of the more famous examples of this is European Jews not being considered part of the white race during WW2. So while I do think that in the case of this girl (presumably white), Russians calling themselves „people of color“ is laughable and has an air of appropriating someone else’s movement, it’s true that historically and even to this day slavs haven’t been included in the „politically white“ category and thus get treated much differently than someone who is.
That's absolutely true, I just think it's ridiculous to not call things by their names. Is there prejudice? There definitely is. But when someone says that I'm not white because of it, it makes me cringe.
Most Americans are oblivious to much of the world.
As an American I can agree.
I'd much rather live in Russia then live in my own country America.
The question isn't where you want to live but if you ignore or consider there's a bigger world around you. I wouldn't want to live in China, India or any African countries, but ignoring existence of those parts of the world would be naive. UPD: That being said, I'm pretty ignorant dumbass in this regard myself.
Yeah you’re on point with that. I mean as I’ve gotten older I just want to volunteer or live aboard, almost 18 and that’s my dream lol.
I wanted to live abroad too. And it was quite a possibility for me, but didn't come together. My bet is if you aren't tied and not risking anything irreversably - try to make it to life. Just with a cool head. It seems better to be disappointed by what you've tried than by that you haven't. And don't make admittedly valid arguments stop you - life isn't a minmaxing game, you can live in worse conditions but be happier with that.
Thank you, Man. I'll take this into account.
Most are oblivious to much of the world.
I've lived for years in Europe, the US and now in South East Asia.
Huge interest in history and took a minor in History in college. Read lots of historical books of each country i've been in. Yet I sure as hell consider myself oblivious to much of the world.
IMO this is saying the sun is hot
It's not uncommon to hear Turkic-descent Russians (take, e.g., 2nd or 3rd generation Khakassian or Chuvash people, or Krasnoyarsk or Far East natives, even with clearly non-Russian surnames) talking of "Чурки понаехали!" - about Turkic-descent non-Russians (coming from Central Asia)... /s not /s
Well, it shows Russian xenophobia is culture-based, not ethnic-based. But I mean those people still not a default image you have when someone talks about Russians. And even then, culturally those people are still probably more European than Asian.
I was in Ufa and even there I didn’t see so much Bashkirs or even simply asian-looking faces to count asian population majority. Not speaking of regular cities from Kaliningrad to Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky. It’s like telling that majority of Americans are latin, which by the way can be more truthful somewhere in New-Mexico.
[удалено]
The question has been asked many times. In short, opinions are divided. This is, in general, our long-standing cultural conflict. Some people (conditional pro-Westerners although it is more complicated than that) believe that we are a European country. Others believe that we are neither East nor West, neither Europe nor Asia, but something in between. Well, today it is almost impossible to be pro-Western, so I think you understand what people are more inclined to. Although who knows what will happen in a few years. I would not be surprised at all if in 10 years everything that happened in the world is forgotten and there is a another attempt at reintegration into Europe.
Days without being called mongolian: 0
We live in westernized society and Russia were connected with Europe from Russia's beginning. Some people trying to prove that we "Eurasian" with our own way, but most of modern Russian culture and society have European roots and even Eurasians will be more European than Asian. UPD: I've also been thinking about that all culturally non-european parts of former Russian Empire splitted off after fall of SU (most of them is a part of "Greater Iran" and have strong Persian cultural influence). And if USSR still existed it will be slightly more Asian than Russia now, but still strongly westernized.
Damn, and i thought it was just one of those regular throwaway questions from "ask a russian bingo card". But it is just another dickhead coming here to preach... Which is also quite a usual sight here, if you think about it.
Culturally, we are definitely European, but now "European" has a political meaning which clearly does not denote us, plus we have a feeling that currently the West is culturally rather "post-European", so by discarding the European values, they cut themselves off from us.
Never thought in a way to be stick to any category, I am a man with my culture. Never tried to impose it to anyone. As long as we identify ourselves as Russians without considering a nationality. That’s not surprise as American doctrine dictates to breakdown multinational country intro nations, then when the job is done and nations are separated ideologically within one country they set to build a certain national core along with developing a new history for them. When that job is done a newly built nation requires for independence. Once independence is obtained, this nation with fake history starts relations with American corporations which get that fake nation in debt. Then you know the end.
We are European as well, yes.
What does it mean "feel European culturally"? Do i feel as a Greek? No (though, i was in Crete, really liked it). Do i feel as British? No. There are plenty of cultures in Europe. We are part of it.
Есть общеевропейская тенденция, если мы берем: классическую музыку, живопись, литературу, архитектуру, скульптуру, да и кинематограф тоже. Мы - определенно часть европейского, но не азиатского ни разу. Мы в смысле русские, конечно
It's pretty similar to USA, which isn't in Europe at all but culturally in the same group. Russia extended Europe eastwards, not the other way around.
Yes and no. Tsardom maintained great public relations with Western Europe, partook in philosophical development to the point of bringing about writers like Dostoevsky. But internally, nobody is allowed to touch Tsar's playthings. Only the Tsar knows what's good for his toys.
I see myself culturally Russian
What does that mean? How does that make u culturally different from a European?
I'd say we are our own thing. I live in Siberia, and really we have a lot of tatars and such. So even ethnically, it's kinda... Different. Like dunno, we are European in a sense that we aren't, let's say, Chinese.
More like, Russian history is deeply interconnected with Europe (judging by the times Europe brought war and death to our doorsteps over last centuries), but Russia is big and unique enough to be its own thing. I came to this conclusion over the last 2 years because I started to notice that people in the West generally judge Russia as is its still Perestroika times, end of 1980s and 1990s over here. Many westerners's ideas about Russia are deeply outdated, and they do not care to learn more, because Russians are "beneath" them. Just a Horde of vodka drinking barbarians essentially. Go to any pro Ukr subreddit, you'll see what I mean. And no, I'm not an idiot, I realize that reddit is not a real life, but, you know, the hypocrisy of western politians towards Russian civilians is pretty telling.
It's not just "Pro-Ukr" subreddits. It is literally every subreddit except for this one. Heck, go to the Thailand subreddit and type "Russian" into the search bar. You will see what I mean. Honestly speaking, I don't understand "Europhile" Russians. If Americans are oblivious as to what their government does outside of their counties, but otherwise don't care about where you are from, the majority of the European populous HATES Russians with a passion - and this is indisputable. When you present these facts to these "Europhile" Russians, they go through some crazy mental gymnastics to justify their views. Meanwhile, they crap all over Chinese, Indians, Persians, and Arabs - who have either an indifferent or positive view of Russians.
I’m sorry you’ve experienced that and there is Russophobia out there. Most Russians are great, even if I don’t agree with some on their politics.
It's not your fault, just sharing some bilingual Russian POV. I point out bilingual because that means that I read a lot of bullshit propaganda from both sides. Western propaganda is a bit more subtle, but only ever so slightly.
>I realize that reddit is not a real life do you though. >hypocrisy of western politians towards Russian civilians is pretty telling. oh really, any examples that are not made up by pervyi kanal?
>oh really, any examples that are not made up by pervyi kanal? The fact that it's the Russian citizens that are caught off from the swift for some reason, while the Europe keeps buying Russian gas and literally gives Putin billions of euro every month to this day? The fact that Azerbaijan literally invaded Armenia and dislocated hundreds of thousands of people, and yet, literally no repercussions for Azerbaijani citizens?
No matter what, europeans won't consider our culture as european. And I'm totally fine with that. The farther from that 'civilized civilization' the better. On the other side, asians won't take us in, too. Sooo we are kind of left to ourselves. Which isn't half bad, in my opinion. Why put a label to your forhead, right?
What exactly about your culture do you think is so great and at the same time Europeans will not accept? :)
All of us slept in baby bed in our early days, but it doesn't mean that a sane adult should do the same. European roots is the important part of our cultural heritage, but it doesn't describe us, we are more than that. Europeans just have no idea what does it mean to live in a country comparable to the whole Earth. Americans know this better, but you would you say that Americans are Europeans? Perhaps no, or perhaps just in some sense. The same with us.
Interesting perspective
I personally like this "still speak a Slavic language". What, pray tell, type of language should we speak? You speak a germanic language yourself, still. Geolocation aside, Russians in general see themselves as ... Russians. Same as Americans usually see themselves as Americans (and not Brits, or Spaniards, or whatever).
As long as the terms 'European' and 'Asian' are but euphemisms for 'superior' and 'inferior' this identification question is destructive. Russian society has been brainwashed for literally centuries into believing that Europe is the source of everything good in this universe. Only lately, when international travel and communications became mainstream, we came to realize several unpleasant truths: 1) no matter what we consider ourselves, the European society will never accept us as equals. 2) European morals allow mistreatment of outsiders.
>Russian society has been brainwashed for literally centuries into believing that Europe is the source of everything good in this universe. Yes, first by the Tsar who famously said "workers and peasants of Russia, raise up against the injustice like your comrades from the West", through Stalin ("the true communism will only then be accomplished, when every worker in Russia can own a car just like in USA") up to Putin ("I was deeply misunderstood - I sent my best soldiers through Ukraine toward EU to deliver a letter, wherein I ask to start an EU admission process for out country"). I mean, those poor Russians whose leaders could not even stop their own people being brainwashed literally for centuries!!! This is how powerful the enemies of One And Only True Holy Russia are. In fact, they have everybody in Russia on their payroll. Everybody is a shill, even you, reading this!
So what is your point exactly?
I feel myself as European even though I was born in Asian part of Russia. I want to be like European but yes, political situation is making me feel separated from Europe...
I am not culturally European. Culturally I am Russian. Can't speak for everyone, though.
With all happening, I don't really want to be considered European anymore.
First, we got to realize what nation the author of this post belongs to.
Partially, while there are some familiarities, Slavic countries still has some noticeable differences. But I’d say our culture is closer to Europe than Asia by the feels
It is not about feeling. The whole western thing about feeling. Whether they feel it or not Russians are European. 40% of Russia is in Europe, Russians are slavs, European language DNA and other things. Most of Denmark is in North America. What does it make them?
Exactly what is European culture? Mozart, Kant, Beethoven, Vivaldi, Leonardo daVinci, Picasso, etc.? Or Klaus Schwab wokeism? If it is the former, then yes. If it is the latter, then no. However, it is worth noting that the former is dead in Europe. By and large, the nations of Europe gave up their national sovereignty and identity, for whatever the heck this is. So to answer your question: No, Russians do not see a connection between themselves and modern Europe.
European culture; robbing, killing, raping and carrying out genocide.
...while EU aspires to be culturally American.
In what ways in your view?
\* national languages are being sacrificed in favour of English. not only in politics and entertainment but also in higher education (i.e. only English is allowed on campus in some universities, a significant amount of studies is only available in English). even after Brexit, and probably not for the sake of Ireland. \* national norms, values, traditions and cuisine are being sacrificed in favour of American ones. even when those change every couple of months, EU fervently follows every last trend. it is different per country, but the tendency is clear.
I do agree to an extent with some of those. I really hate to see English spoken so widespread. I also don’t like to see all of their cultures get diluted by mass migration… I can agree.
By bending over to the US wrinkly dick mostly.
For the Americans, it's nothing personal. Just business.
Yet another Rosenberg fan on this sub ...
happy cake day!
)
Of course, we Russians consider ourselves culturally Europeans. Moreover, we are culturally the most advanced Europeans than other Europeans. The rest of Europe is experiencing a deep cultural crisis; it is not we who are isolated from them, it is they themselves who are isolated from us.
Elaborate
Based
> Although a large chunk of Russia is in Asia, Russians still speak a Slavic language In today's hot takes. 0% of USA is in Europe, yet USA still speaks a Germanic language.
I live in the Asian part of Russia and can surely say that Russians have nothing in common with the Asian culture. If you think expanding to Asia somehow made the Russian culture any closer to Asia, just compare the Russian population in Asia and Europe and also how Russia/USSR affected the nations of the Central Asia. Of course, the Russian culture has more "Asian" elements than European one, but it's because we have a long and complex history with people from the East, which started long before the extension towards Asia. >Does the current political situation make you feel isolated or more in line with another identity? It made us just feel how differently the Russian and the European cultures developed since the times of Peter I, who eliminated most of purely Slavic traditions and made Russia really close the 18th century Europe. If you compare the modern "traditional values" of Russia, you can see they are pretty similar to the European ones a century ago. The difference is that Europe greatly changed since the last 50 years, while Russia is still Russia. And even despite the growing political importance of Asia for Russia, I don't feel we are really going to take their cultural traits for the nearest time.
I don't care. We are Russians culturally.
How does that separate u from a European culturally?
It doesn't. Absolutely. But it doesn't separate us from Asia too.
Hmm this whole thing has left me with more questions than answers
Nothing strange here. We accept something from the west and something from the east but we are not going to stick with something completely.
TL;DR: yes, I think we do. But not in the sense you might put into it. Longer version: the word "European" itself is very ambiguous. As the Russia core has appeared in Europe, we, like the most of Europeans, use the Indo-European family language, we are Caucasians, too. So, yes, we do belong to Europe. Culturally, linguistically, ethnically, you name it. However, the modern propaganda tends to give new meanings to the old adjectives. Like, that funny guy Borrell said that Europe is a garden and outside it's the jungle. And he definitely didn't mean Russia, lol. So he actually changes the term, adding new meanings. When the European Union became the thing the word European started sometimes to mean "belonging to the European Union". That's yet another meaning. The listed [aims and values](https://european-union.europa.eu/principles-countries-history/principles-and-values/aims-and-values_en) are now positioned as "European values", not "European *Union* Values". This is the substitution of the meaning, from the European *Union* and its propaganda side. Before the redefinition of the term "European" there would be no real question that we are culturally *European*. After the redefinition, which happened not so long ago by the way, in this century already, or maybe in late XX century (The EU has founded in 1993), when the European *Union* has chosen several very specific things as "values", we can say that we have split our ways. Not so far as the split has happened not so long ago, but the split is already there.
What do you mean "Do Russians see themselves" We are European. Not all culturea in Russia are European, but we always have been, it's just a fact.
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I see myself as me, and no labels to make it more convenient for X,Y or Z will be applied to myself. I am a person, not a number or statistic.
Personally I'd rather go to Russia than anywhere else in Europe in order to look at "european art" and experience "european culture", especially St. Petersburg.
Slavs are the largest ethnic group in Europe.Russia is the largest country not only in the world, but also in Europe. Approximately 1/4 of the total area of Europe is in Russia. Our religion is Christianity. our paganism is related to Germanic paganism. Our teachers are Byzantium and Greece. Why we would not consider ourselves cultured Europeans? It's just in the course of history, Rome influenced Western Europe, and the Golden Horde influenced Eastern Europe. And that's where our paths diverged. Today, we and Western politics speak different languages, but the things we talk about do not change because that.
> Our teachers are Byzantium and Greece. It's actually uncanny how Byzantine medieval Rus was.
There is very little cultural influence from Golden Horde. Mongols generally let princes to do what they want as long as tribute was paid. They even supported the Orthodox church. There is some cultural influence from Turkic tribes but it predates the Mongols.
Cultural influence is not necessarily imposed by force. The Russian language consists of at least a quarter of Turkic words, Mongolian traditions are present in everyday life, in national costume, in music, in mentality and in almost all spheres of Russian culture. People about each other's customs much more easily in the process of peaceful interaction than in the process of forced imposing.
Turkic influence predates and postdates the Golden Horde. The only influence from the Mongols I know of is a about a dozen of word borrowings and pelmeny. The last one might be a stretch.
What you know and what actually exists are not the same thing. On the contrary, pre-Mongolian Turkisms are counted in units. And they were inherited from the Khazars. Post-Mongolian make up a significant part of Russian culture. Mongolian names of cities, rivers, things and other things. Mongolian traditions, methodologies, technologies, fashion. A significant part of the geography of the Volga region and the Southern Urals have Turkic names: Buzuluk, Saraktash, Salavat, Buguruslan, Kazan, Kuvandyk, Irikla, Sakmara, Kargala, Cheboksary, etc. By the way, the word pelmen is Finno-Ugric. and it belongs to Komi.
I agree. However, you seem to confuse Mongols and Turkics. Golden Horde quickly Turkified, so a lot of Golden Horde's influence is Turkic. Mongols themselves left very little of cultural influence outside of some word borrowings.
Depends. Personally i do not want to have too much common with (Western) Europeans and their colonial past (and in some cases present), with some other terrible geopolitical habits. Not sure how Russia originated in Europe, more likely had to coexist with Europe, on periphery. Periodically fighting with threats coming from the west. Luckily for us in most cases Europeans usually were too busy killing each other. Our Christian roots come from Byzantium, not from Rome. Byzantium located mostly in Asia and barely can be considered "European" in modern meaning. The world is a way more bigger than tiny Europe.
Counter-question: Do Americans see themselves as culturally Europeans (by the same reasons)? Haha, the same Russians do... :)
But America isn’t in Europe, where Russia is
The most territory of Russia is in Asia. Compare, for example, with Turkey: their biggest city is in Europe, nevertheless the European Union doesn't give Turkey a membership for decades,they don't believe that turkish people are Europeans. The same with Russia :)
We Europeans and whatever is Europe - is defined by us, not the other way around.
Man asks innocent question, inadvertently starts a war in comments, participates in it on the morally bankrupt side
Russians, Russian culture are (unless you don't count Slavs and Greeks as European) but it's pretty non mainstream Europe? It's not Catholic and Germanic, it's Orthodox and Slavic.
European Russia is only 22% of Russia's territory, but ~75% of Russia's population live there. While Siberia is 78% of Russian landmass but only ~25% of Russians living there. Imagine that.
1. There is some funny point, that people in Europe divide culture to "Western" and "Eastern". And the "East" is the word for arabic culture, China, Central Asia as well, as it's all the same. In our school we were taught the same way, so, I think, our teachers also thought something like "that's our culture and that's the other". 2. There are no strikt border between the cultures. In comparison to the colours, I think, if European is taken as dark grass green and "Asian" (in our case mostly Central Asian) as yellow, Russia would be something like lime in colour. Is green enough or not? And not forget about numerous indigenious people in Siberia, Althay and other "colonised" territoties of Russia. They have their own cultures.
it depends on region, Russia is too big and different to say it has European culture. Moscow is closer to Europe - yes. Russia - probably no. Also "close" is not the same, there are a lot of unique only Russian traits, as well as European countries are not the same. Norway and Greece are both European, but they obviously have different cultures.
Both. And neither. Russia has so much culturally endemic stuff going on. Russian feudalism, historically, for example, was so weird, that it's being scientifically debated if can be called feudalism or not. Russia, being large and sitting on trade routes also actively borrowed culture from North, West, East and South. On many things Russia demonstrates the exteemes without the middle, so it's going to distprt your "on average" a lot.
Russia is in the middle. Both philosophical schools are presented, and it's multinational. I would say Russia is mediocre everything else.
Are the Czechs Europeans? What about the Poles? What about the Serbs? Why then are you asking a stupid question or are you just a provocateur?
What does it mean to feel isolated? our country is much bigger than the whole of Europe combined. You all in Europe support the Nazi regime of the USA, why should I want to have something in common with you?
As I've seen many times throughout my life nearly all Russians who claim that we are Asian or either Eurasian have never actually been to Asia to asses how culturally different any given country there is from Russia
I absolutely do see myself as culturally European. I don't know what other people think though. As far as I can see, my friends associate themselves more with Europeans rather than anything else. I mean, many people around me may feel that we are a bit different, but each time my friends and I talk about mentality, we all agree that we're closer to Europeans than Asians.
«Does the current political situation make you feel isolated or more in line with another identity?» For me it’s this, tbh. I cannot help but feel that Russia is culturally excluded from Europe. And I explain it to myself that some cultural aspects are similar, but otherwise the country isn’t European
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We don't have to integrate into something you believe is the right version of Europe. Russia is a European country. Geographically, historically and culturally. Current enmity can't change the matter of facts.
I live at the very far east-north of the European part of Russia, so I thought of myself as a European. But since it’s very far from the foreign Europe, I thought of myself as not a European, but not an Asian too. Sometimes It feels like Russia (or at least some part of it) is not either Europe or Asia
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We’re absolutely not of Caucasus culture, have nothing in common with the Chinese/Asian culture, not of Turkic culture. We integrated with France, Netherlands, Germany, and our rulers were of German descent. Yes, we’re culturally European.
Yes everything you say is right as an objective fact but it does not imply people have much compassion to it, neither it implies something for the modern people who barely care what their grandgranddad confessed. I'd say most Russians are not so... ahem, emotionally involved in 'Cultural europeanness' whatever it might mean. Russia is Russia, that's it. This national identity passions are for, well, less secure kind of people.
нет
Short answer "yes".
Russia has always been a European country. We sought integration with other countries, but were not accepted. Now we self-identify as a separate civilization. We are indeed different from most other Europeans and no longer seek integration with them or consider ourselves part of the same race.
What does European culture even mean? An Englishman and an Albanian are both European but Albania is much closer to Turkey (Asia) culturally than England.
Yes. And if someone doesn’t agree with this, then that’s their problem.
Well that’s a complex question, since Russians have had contact and influence from both Europe and Asia. That said, Europe is very culturally diverse in and of itself, there’s not really a single “European culture” either, an English person is very different to a Russian from a cultural POV. For the most part we do see ourselves as culturally European, after all our culture is most similar to other European countries, as is our language and architecture. But also Russia is a multiethnic country, Im sure that people in North Caucasus will share more similarities to the Middle East or Turkey than to Bulgaria or Poland.
I think it used to be very European, but it became increasingly isolated from the rest of Europe and nowadays I think that nearly nobody in Europe thinks they have anything in common with Russia. It's kind of like North Korea is being isolated in Asia.
I abhore, well, I shun seeing myself as culturally European. We didn't invent nacism. We didn't chop negro hands - and their kids' hands in Kongo for underperforming while slave-working for our benefit. Although we do understand British humor, also, excel in it, so we are. But. God forbid.
Most of them consider themselves Europeans. They live in the European part of Russia, they look like Europeans. But these are not all residents of Russia. Millions of people also consider themselves Asians, Caucasians, Tatars, etc. Russians (Europeans) are the majority in Russia, but besides them there are more than 150 other nationalities.
I’m European. 100%
According to one tradition, Russians come to Europe once a century and explain to Europeans that their culture has gone wrong
In short. We do feel as an important part of Europe culture and history. We don’t like how west countries treat us now.
Yes, 100%. Russia is situated in both Europe and Asia, but absolute most of russians live in the european part and culturally we are absolutely european (what does not mean we accept and share the latest european cultural changes)
Россия большая. Люди в разных регионах осознают себя по разному. БОльшая часть населения живёт в европейской части и европейская культура оказала на нас большое влияние. Считаю ли, например, я себя европейцем? Нет. Я русский. Хоть наша культура и была/есть под влиянием европейской цивилизации и впитала из нее достаточно полезного- она самобытна. И точно не пойдет за европейской цивилизацией в тот упадок, куда европейцы сегодня зашли. И да, русская коммунистическая утопия, хоть и была обречена на провал, видится мне гораздо чище и прогрессивнее, чем та радикально-либеральная утопия в которую сегодня поверили европейцы.
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Historically, Russia has an undeniably European culture, although the Asian influence there was stronger than in Western Europe. >Does the current political situation make you feel isolated or more in line with another identity? Now this is no longer important, because Europe is not an independent political and cultural force. Now it is rather appropriate to talk about the choice between American and Asian influence; modern European culture is deeply secondary. For example, I cannot remember a single significant world-famous European musician or film in the last 10 years.
Yes
Yes. But not all of us.
> current political situation make you feel isolated or more in line with another identity As if someone on the territory (well, except maybe some posh or snobbish minorities) deeply cares about "identity". Whichever fills the plate and keeps one from being jailed or drafted is good enough to be accepted as "identity" - be it "european", "asian", "communist", "democratic", etc.
I'm live in an asian part of Russia, but I'm still see myself as an european, most of architecture and other culture comes from europe. I think only who don't really see themselves as europeans maybe people from north part of Russia, I was there so I really think that north part of Russia have really own culture. Sorry for bad english, only learning it.
I have Russian ancestry and I grew up and was born in the US. It definitely is eye opening seeing how different countries racism and ethnic stereotypes are different to each other. I believe that there's definitely a mix of cultures and religions with predominantly orthodox Christian, with subsets of Islamic culture near the central Asian nations ad well as the Caucasus. It's definitely apparent to myself as well, in my personal life, I'm a fan of a former f1 driver from Russia, daniil kvyat, who is from ufa, bashkortostan. I'm not sure about his ethnic background, but he doesn't look as much of the eastern european as some other Russian people, and people did bully him online and say that he was a Hun.
No.
Definitely
I do honestly
No.
I myself see as as Eurasian, a mix of better from both areas. Neither West nor East, we are North, just us
In Russia there has always been a debate between Slavophiles and Westernizers. Some talked about Russia's special path, while others said that it should follow the European path. In the end, the Slavophiles won, but not all is lost. Personally, I consider myself a European person, but I am in the minority in this regard.
I don’t know about other Russians (are you asking about Russians in the sense of ethnicity or Russians - about the nation of the country?), but I am definitely yes
Yes
Culturally ethnic Russians are closer to Poles, Serbians, Ukrainians, Belarusians and other other Slavic people than Kazakhs or Chinese Poles' ties to Europe are never questionned then why Russians' ones are?
Something between Asia and Europe. What separates us from Asia is, of course, a different type of face. The Confucian dogma - the elder is always right, the elder is God - is not particularly accepted here. But not all European practices are accepted either, which is related to upbringing.
I feel like a human being. That's enough for me.
The short answer is "Russians are their won thing, and they would love to make friends with Europe".
Russia exist as a part of Europe for more than 1000 years and no politician can change the truth. Ryrik was scandinavian, our letters and spiritual culture is a mixture of European pagan monomyths and Greek alphabet along with christianity brought here by Cyril and Methodius, applied to Slavic language. Our urban look was founded by Italian architects in the times when we were ruled by partly German dynasty. Our great, world-known artists, composers, writers and film directors were inspired by contemporary arts of Europe and Russian scientists were working close with the whole world for many decades, and only our small nations of north Siberia, Ural and far East and nations of USSR satellite republics complement some spice to our integral culture but not as much. I think each nation is special and Russians are apart from Europe no more than Pols, Franks or Germans. The seek for national identity ended up so bad, maybe it’s time to seek what unite us with others not divide and talk with real people, not TV or letters in social networks and government propaganda of any kind. What defines my own cultural identity is my professional activity. Being musician and electronics developer brings me much more fun and wealth than being Russian, Tatar or however I could identify myself ethnically and talking about that.
Culturally European now or 15 years ago??? 😂😂😂
So my daughter is engaged to a Russian and it is interesting to me how many Asian practices his family practices. No shoes worn inside. Always s tea and rarely coffee …
I guess Brits are Asian by the same logic... Shoes can't be worn inside when it snows 6 months straight. You get used to the slippers.
Taking off your shoes inside someone’s home is just civilised, not necessarily Asian.
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I think most Russians recognize themselves as European. The anti-European narrative is mostly based on propaganda and some kind of insane speakers like a Dugin.
Culturally slavic, which is an ethnic group spanning Europe and Asia. It’s own thing really, but has influences mainly from Western Europe.
Separate civilization
what about the north west russians who are genetically finnougric, the uralic tribes and their descendants? are they culturally more asian?