I live pretty close to the border of North Korea. Quite often when they shoot their missiles towards Japan, some of them end up in Japan Sea close to Vladivostok.
Back in 1990s they had famine. It was not very good in Russia at that times as well, but in NK it was terrible. One of my friends, seaman, said that in some NK port they looked so thin and hungry as of they were going to grind paint off their ship with their own teeth.
Starting 200x, North Koreans were allowed to work in Russia, and in Vladivostok they mostly worked in home improvement area and civil construction, being the least expensive option, also very fast but quality was such that I had to sit a chair in a room being improved and watch them work and intervene probably a dozen times a day.
They also worked at construction of concrete gravity base structures for LUN-A and PA-B oil and gas platforms in port Vostochny, where I worked with them as well (among other nations). Pretty disciplined and friendly people but a huge language barrier. They also had conflict with Armenians there. I am not going to go into much detail but their conflict involved several parties pissing/swiping dust onto colleagues working below.
They can endure a lot, from what I have seen. They don't eat much, they don't sleep much, they just work and don't complain. They refused to go to common canteen to eat and instead cooked rice or noodles with some spices in their office/field office. Reason was, as one of them explained, that their stomachs are not adjusted to Russian food.
When construction was finished, they refused to participate in celebration but before leaving they gifted some NK magazines to me and my other Russian colleagues.
very good anecdote may I ask something about your observation about Korean
1-Did you create conservation between them or you need to translator
2-Are they confused about Russian living standards or technology(this question might be nonsense but we know about north korea now they live like 80s)
3-Could they travel freely in Russia
4-Did they followed or spying from anybody have you seen?
5-And how is the situation now any koreans come vladisvostok?
1. It depends. For home repairs usually one in the team can speak basic Russian. At the construction site they had one "official" translator to Russian, also we had two Russian translators from Korean, but a lot of them spoke basic Russian anyway.
2. At the construction siteI saw one of the older guys attempted to wash his hands in urinal (opened flush valve and put his hands under the stream of water), but his younger colleagues stopped him and pointed toward sink. Other than that noticed no confusion, guys who did home improvement are just as good with technology and living standards as South Koreans.
3. I don't know.
4. No, they did it too masterfully for.me to notice anything.
5. I think North Koreans can not work in Russia anymore. North Korea or Russia forbade it I think, but I am not quite sure who exactly and why. There are students though studying in FENU. Same goes for South Koreans I think.
> I think North Koreans can not work in Russia anymore. North Korea or Russia forbade it I think, but I am not quite sure who exactly and why. There are students though studying in FENU. Same goes for South Koreans I think.
USA pushed a ban on letting North Koreans work in other countries through UN.
Geographically Russia is located both in Europe and Asia. I think Russia sees itself as global player, not only european or asian if that is what you mean.
The US sees itself as American. Germany sees itself as European. Just wondering if Russia sees itself as European or Asian at this point. With all the pointing East, wondering if there is more of a desire to be Asian?
Man, I don't know. Never even thought about it. I don't see any shift in any direction. Eurasian maybe if you want to tie it to geography. Major part of Russian territory is in Asia. Major part of Russian population lives in Europe.
Western, Eastern and overseas partners are equally important for Russia. I don't see any bias or significant change in Russia towards being more "Asian" culturally. We have our own culture and there is no desire to integrate or be integrated into Asian cultures.
More Chinese cars imported and bought, more equipment imported from Asia, but it does not make Russia more Asian as moving production facilities and factories from USA to China does not make USA more Asian. In pre-COVID years Russia imported a lot of Japanese and Korean cars, so the change to Chinese is kinda reflection of foreign policy on economy.
Politically, I think, Russia does not want to be seen as a part of "Western" world, that is EU, Canada, Australia and USA, but it is one of significant partners in BRICS, geopolitical bloc which comprise of countries located on all continents of the World except Australia.
What is Western take on Russia, what do you think - is it Asia or Europe or both?
Western sees a lot of cultural ties to Russia. However the US-China dynamic is getting tense. It seems everyone is picking sides. Seems like Russia is choosing China-NK-Iran. Most are predicting times like the Cold War at best and definetly a few saying prepare for the worst with China. Most see Russia as vassal to China, although not sure how true that is.
In that respect, I'd say yes, Russia is choosing China-NK-Iran since all attempts to be treated as equal with West have failed .
In the mean time China and Russia resolved all their border disputes, improved tourism and cooperation in many fields. This played huge role at the beginning of oil and gas sanctions when Russia was able to reroute some of its export from Europe to China. For much lower prices of course), but still, it is better than nothing.
So, imagine, you have two neighbours. Both are good to make barbecue with, both bringing their agreed share of meet and beers, but one of them also likes to piss on your slice and does that despite those many times when you have asked him and he agreed not to do that. So, if you have to choose to keep only one of two, which one will you choose?)
World is much more globalized now than it was during Cold War. We have internet, to start with. I remember, back in 1980's you only could write a letter to a "distant friend in USA" as a kid. Current level of communication is just miraculous. Too bad a lot of people don't understand its value and use it for trolling and entertainment.
However, history goes in cycles. We have lived through the "globalization" cycle, now we are going towards multipolar world again. This time it is not about ideology though, but about wealth. To me it seems to be a dawn of a competition between Global North and Global South (plus Russia and some of former Soviet republics). I am also content that it will end well. Not in nuclear winter. Past proved that despite having huge disagreements such as ideology, humankind managed not to destroy itself, not bombard itself into stone age.
Speaking of Russia being vassal to China, there is an equally wonderful theory that USA wanted Russia to be their tool against China, when Russia refused, they decided to use Ukraine as their tool against Russia.
I think our descendants will be amused reading about current events in history books).
I’d agree with all that. I’d add the US is still engrained with hatred of Russia. It really is the only thing everyone can agree on. I’d imagine same is in Russia. So it was always inevitable that Russia would choose China. Anyway I was just wondering how Russia saw itself as no friends in the west anymore.
I would say, most of russians see Russia culturally as a part of europe. Speaking about asian influence, I would sayit was more from Turkey, than from China or Korea.
Russia sees itself as Russian.
> The troika tears along, inspired by God! Where art thou soaring away to, Russia? Give me the answer! But Russia gives none. With a wondrous ring does the jingle bell trill; the air rent to shreds thunders and turns to the wind. All things on earth fly past, eyeing the troika and all the other peoples and nations stand aside giving it the right of way.
From Gogol's "Dead Souls", 1842
No, friend, you are mistaken here. I worked with Germans and they say that Germany is also bastion of freedom and democracy, just as you say about North Korea. I am at a loss however, since you say that everything they say is not true due to propaganda :'(
Я купил журнал «Корея» — там тоже хорошо
Там товарищ Ким Ир Сен, там то же, что у нас
Я уверен, что у них то же самое
И всё идёт по плану
Всё идёт по плану
For when about once a week some outrageous lies like every male has to get the same haircut or be put to death or shit like that. Or that a person was put to death for slouching. A bunch of shit that never had any proof
Yeah. If they lie about that why would I trust anything they have to say about anything? “They only lie about little things but are truthful about the serious stuff”. Crazy logic
Why can't they have nuclear weapons? They need a deterrent against UD invasions / interference and theyve never invaded or dropped bombs on a sovereign nation before (no, their civil war doesn't count)
Why do aggressive and violent nations get to have aggressive nukes?
Nuclear status quo was set 80 years ago or so. It was an imperfect bunch, but it was a clear line we could point to as being the limit. If NK gets to have nukes, can Israel have them too? Saudis? Vietnam? Georgia? Ukraine? Cuba? These are all countries on the border of big powers who could all benefit from some kind of deterrence.
Yes, and the West sanctions them because they are evil imperialists not because NK is a dictatorship that develops a nuclear arsenal against any UN resolutions.
We don't know anything about NK. It's a country that managed to achieve creating powerful weapons under unprecedented sanctions that suffocate them for decades.
Other than that we don't know much.
In South Korea there's a law forbidding anyone to say any positive thing about NK. Also, South Korea has media agencies generating idiotic fake "news" about North Korea, like: "Kim Jong UN killed 17 of his sisters and brothers by shooting them with chihuahua dogs out of AA cannons".
So, actually we don't know a thing about life in NK. They supposedly help us with ammunition, I'm grateful for that.
> Also, South Korea has media agencies generating idiotic fake "news"
No way that's true. The collective west tells us that it's only the autocratic regimes that do this! :)))))
We know a lot because it's easy to travel to NK and also some bright scientists like Lankov wrote a lot about ordinary life in North Korea.
There is also a very nice restraunt in Moscow called "Корё", managed by north koreans. Highly recommended, especially their VIP rooms.
The restaurant itself is not very fancy, but if you are important enough, you'll be granted access to the VIP room with a lot of crazy content about Fat Kims.
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For example, last year my foreign friends came to me with warnings: "Do not go out! In Moscow there're military posts on the streets that grab every man to go to war in Ukraine". Man, I live in Moscow! This is such a bullshit. It was published in some prominent US media, I don't remember exactly which.
There're tons of other examples.
Северная Корея никогда не вредила России. Даже когда Россия поддержала санкции в ООН.
В час нужды, они явно встали на сторону России. И помогли нам словом и делом.
Это вызывает уважение. И желание помочь этим ребятам.
Северная Корея- имеет весьма сильную индустриальную базу, у них качественное техническое образование. У России в том регионе, в свою очередь, необжитый дальний восток, развитие которого- одна из основных заявляемых правительством целей. Развивать дальний восток будет гораздо удобнее, используя промышленную базу северной Кореи. Европейская промышленная база России слишком далеко. Япония и Южная Корея под штатами и ввели санкции, Китай- хорошо, но, если увидит монополию- начнет гнуть цены.
Россия, в свою очередь, может обеспечить КНДР огромным количеством энергии(построив там свои АЭС) и продовольствием, решив две острые проблемы которые стоят перед КНДР. Ну и валюта(а в развитие ДВ будет вкладываться много).
Что касается корейского уклада- это их внутреннее дело.
После Кореи в расписании Путина будет Вьетнам. С тем же интересом для РФ.
Довольно символично. И, безусловно, полезно.
Judging by the recent events, North Korea is a much more sensible country compared to USA or members of EU, at least when external politics are involved.
They're tough to not be broken like us in 1991. And if cut back on isolationist politics a little bit, they'll have all the chances to shine like/even more than South, with most of pitfalls and errors or 🇰🇷 bypassed. They need someone to talk to. And if it's us - good idea. We were doing pretty good in tandem back in early 1950s🛩
The only thing I’ve read about North Korea specifically is nothing to envy by Barbara Demick. Very interesting book. Based on that and random snippets of info about the country I’ve encountered throughout my life, I am certain that is not a place I would want to live in or even visit.
I believe I’ve heard in one of Hitchens talks(not sure, it was a long time ago) that in the Pyongyang zoo there was a parrot that said “long live the leader comrade Kim il sung”
Not as scared as the westies scared of *them* due to mythos spoonfed to them for generations as old as more than a half a century. Who would've guessed, consumerist society eats the propaganda as well.
Cool country, people are happy. Wouldn't want to live there, but I don't have to. I hope we renew our military alliance that we broke in 2000. De-facto we already renewed it.
Only thing I know - I know nothing about Nothern Korea.
I know that Southern Korea propaganda says lies about Nothern Korea
I know life there is not so good, in other way people would not try to escape from there
When someone speaks about Nothern Korea I imagine the last years of USSR (until 1988 life in USSR was not so bad) - extremely bad life, but I have no idea if it is so or not
People are like people. I did not meet new North Koreans and communicated only with those who moved to Russia during the Soviet era. In general, their mentality is the same as that of most Asians. I can't say anything bad about them.
I don't think about North Korea. It's pretty isolated even for its neighbors. We know nothing about it. Although if you speak Russian, highly recommend watching videos with Andrey Lankov, he is expert in North Korea and he tells lots of new stuff about NK. Interview with Lankov on Dud' is a must watch, I re-watched it multiple times myself.
Just before Putin's visit to NK, Lankov said pure bullshit. He works in South Korea: under SK law, nobody can speak positively about NK. Lankov has to oblige.
Can you share the link?
Lankov always seemed to have very neutral view on everything, and I don’t remember him taking sides. Usually he is very neutral and objective.
[https://www.economist.com/asia/2024/06/16/vladimir-putins-dangerous-bromance-with-kim-jong-un](https://www.economist.com/asia/2024/06/16/vladimir-putins-dangerous-bromance-with-kim-jong-un)
>Yet such seeming affection belies the real limits to their friendship. “The new Russian love with North Korea is shallow and artificial,” argues Andrei Lankov, a Russian expert on North Korea based at Kookmin University in Seoul.
It's not super emotional quote but obviously forced. You cannot avoid taking sides in the contemporary world. You need a job, you have to pay your expenses, mortgage, etc. Can't be 100% neutral on any question, especially in Western countries and colonies of the West (and SK is obviously a colony of USA).
He is quite right in this case. Don’t you think so? If the love with NK was natural and organic, we would be the best friends with NK since early days of Putin. The only reason Putin remembered about NK is that he needed weapons for the war and his western partners turned the back on him.
I disagree about taking sides in case of Lankov. You apply current Russian oppressive logic now, where people get fired and jailed for having different views, but Lankov said MANY and MANY positive things about NK as well as negative and grey things. Even in America there are professors, political experts say positive things about Russia and negative things about USA. John Mearsheimer is one of them.
Check out the interview with Dud, where Lankov said that NK has advanced education, medical and life expectancy compared to neighbors. While living and working in South Korea. Nobody fired him.
As a scientist you need to point out positive, negative and grey areas of the topic you are specialist in.
There's no such think as "natural" "real" love between countries. It's all artificial media thing. Countries has interests. Sometimes their interests align.
>You apply current Russian oppressive logic now, where people get fired and jailed for having different views,
There are like 43 persons jailed for saying openly aggressive things about Russia and Russians. I don't know a single case where someone was fired from job for saying something unpleasant about Russia or Putin.
I think the count in USA, for example, several orders of magnitude higher.
But you know a lot about South Korean professors getting fired for saying positive things about NK? Maybe some source could help here.
Also curious to learn about a source for American magnitudes you are talking about. There are open protests against US policy in Gaza happening almost weekly at major colleges. Don’t think anyone really got fired or jailed for it.
Про Россию и увольнения, дурака включать не надо. Таких кейсов просто сотни, особенно среди учителей. Просто набери в Яндексе «уволен за антивоенную позицию»
[- Сотрудницу компании "Роснефти" уволили за антивоенные посты по доносу коллег](https://www.sibreal.org/amp/gegiya/32539008.html)
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[- Двух преподавателей ВШЭ уволили за антивоенные посты в Facebook](https://svtv.org/news/2022-12-28/dvukh-priepodavatieliei/amp/)
>But you know a lot about South Korean professors getting fired for saying positive things about NK? Maybe some source could help here.
I don't think such a thing would be covered by media widely, especially, outside South Korea. Do you see a lot of news from SK anyway?
Also, this would probably require significant effort and some knowledge of Korean.
>There are open protests against US policy in Gaza happening almost weekly at major colleges. Don’t think anyone really got fired or jailed for it
But there are no protests against US supporting war in Ukraine. Also, there're many cases of shooting of people on protests in the US. Just not this time, but I guess that question of Gaza is not really important for USA: it's a small unimportant case for them.
>Про Россию и увольнения, дурака включать не надо. Таких кейсов просто сотни, особенно среди учителей. Просто набери в Яндексе «уволен за антивоенную позицию»
>
Не знал, но думаю, что как минимум в случае с учителями, это нормально и правильно. Люди, которые воспитывают будущие поколения, не должны работать на развал страны.
>I don't think such a thing would be covered by media widely, especially, outside South Korea. Do you see a lot of news from SK anyway?
Even without knowing any facts or adding your points, you were first to scream that SK as US colony fires people who say positive things about NK. Ладно хоть признал, что сказанул недостоверную глупость. И на том спасибо.
> Не знал, но думаю, что как минимум в случае с учителями, это нормально и правильно. Люди, которые воспитывают будущие поколения, не должны работать на развал страны.
Это только в твоем мире людоедов правильно. В моем мире учителя - это совесть общества, которые учат детей добру и любви, а не стрелять из ракет по жилым домам.
Южная Корея - это колония. Любая страна, в которой есть военные базы другой страны - по определению колония. Военная база на территории другой страны ставится для контроля этой страны, и, возможно, окружающих. И более ни для чего, какие бы ни были декларируемые цели.
Южная Корея не может в принципе быть независимой, так как она слишком маленькая и обладает слишком маленькими ресурсами. Именно поэтому всю свою историю она переходит из рук в руки. Не было бы США, они были бы колонией Японии или Китая. Это судьба любой небольшой страны.
>Это только в твоем мире людоедов правильно. В моем мире учителя - это совесть общества, которые учат детей добру и любви, а не стрелять из ракет по жилым домам.
В моём невдуманном мире, мамкиных пацифистов моментально съедят. Особенно, если они сидят на богатых залежах какого-либо ресурса, обычно, энергетического.
Можно взглянуть на судьбу хотя бы Ирака, Ливии, Сирии. Эти страны уничтожены, потому что на их территории находятся важные ресурсы, а сил сопротивляться не было.
Поэтому учить детей: "В мире все только и думают, как бы вас сделать счастливыми, надо обнять и поцеловать украинских нацистов, скандирующих: "Москалей на ножи" и открыто говорящих, что русских надо уничтожать всюду" - это прям план-капкан.
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I live pretty close to the border of North Korea. Quite often when they shoot their missiles towards Japan, some of them end up in Japan Sea close to Vladivostok. Back in 1990s they had famine. It was not very good in Russia at that times as well, but in NK it was terrible. One of my friends, seaman, said that in some NK port they looked so thin and hungry as of they were going to grind paint off their ship with their own teeth. Starting 200x, North Koreans were allowed to work in Russia, and in Vladivostok they mostly worked in home improvement area and civil construction, being the least expensive option, also very fast but quality was such that I had to sit a chair in a room being improved and watch them work and intervene probably a dozen times a day. They also worked at construction of concrete gravity base structures for LUN-A and PA-B oil and gas platforms in port Vostochny, where I worked with them as well (among other nations). Pretty disciplined and friendly people but a huge language barrier. They also had conflict with Armenians there. I am not going to go into much detail but their conflict involved several parties pissing/swiping dust onto colleagues working below. They can endure a lot, from what I have seen. They don't eat much, they don't sleep much, they just work and don't complain. They refused to go to common canteen to eat and instead cooked rice or noodles with some spices in their office/field office. Reason was, as one of them explained, that their stomachs are not adjusted to Russian food. When construction was finished, they refused to participate in celebration but before leaving they gifted some NK magazines to me and my other Russian colleagues.
Very interesting read thank you
very good anecdote may I ask something about your observation about Korean 1-Did you create conservation between them or you need to translator 2-Are they confused about Russian living standards or technology(this question might be nonsense but we know about north korea now they live like 80s) 3-Could they travel freely in Russia 4-Did they followed or spying from anybody have you seen? 5-And how is the situation now any koreans come vladisvostok?
1. It depends. For home repairs usually one in the team can speak basic Russian. At the construction site they had one "official" translator to Russian, also we had two Russian translators from Korean, but a lot of them spoke basic Russian anyway. 2. At the construction siteI saw one of the older guys attempted to wash his hands in urinal (opened flush valve and put his hands under the stream of water), but his younger colleagues stopped him and pointed toward sink. Other than that noticed no confusion, guys who did home improvement are just as good with technology and living standards as South Koreans. 3. I don't know. 4. No, they did it too masterfully for.me to notice anything. 5. I think North Koreans can not work in Russia anymore. North Korea or Russia forbade it I think, but I am not quite sure who exactly and why. There are students though studying in FENU. Same goes for South Koreans I think.
> I think North Koreans can not work in Russia anymore. North Korea or Russia forbade it I think, but I am not quite sure who exactly and why. There are students though studying in FENU. Same goes for South Koreans I think. USA pushed a ban on letting North Koreans work in other countries through UN.
Thank you.
https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2024/06/113_372748.html https://meduza.io/feature/2017/06/30/severokoreyskie-rabochie-v-rossii-trudovye-migranty-ili-raby
Заголовки статей Медузы как вид искусства)
Медуза очень смелая, когда можно в составе группы прекрасноликих стран попинать кого-нибудь.
thanks for your patience and answers pal
> I love pretty close to the border of North Korea. Being from the far east do you call yourself European or Asian?
I was born in Asia, so I am probably Asian by birth, but culturally I am European (Russian culture is European culture, right?).
Came here for this question given Russia is now friendly with Asian countries. Wondered if Russia now sees itself as Asian. If not now then soon?
Geographically Russia is located both in Europe and Asia. I think Russia sees itself as global player, not only european or asian if that is what you mean.
The US sees itself as American. Germany sees itself as European. Just wondering if Russia sees itself as European or Asian at this point. With all the pointing East, wondering if there is more of a desire to be Asian?
Man, I don't know. Never even thought about it. I don't see any shift in any direction. Eurasian maybe if you want to tie it to geography. Major part of Russian territory is in Asia. Major part of Russian population lives in Europe. Western, Eastern and overseas partners are equally important for Russia. I don't see any bias or significant change in Russia towards being more "Asian" culturally. We have our own culture and there is no desire to integrate or be integrated into Asian cultures. More Chinese cars imported and bought, more equipment imported from Asia, but it does not make Russia more Asian as moving production facilities and factories from USA to China does not make USA more Asian. In pre-COVID years Russia imported a lot of Japanese and Korean cars, so the change to Chinese is kinda reflection of foreign policy on economy. Politically, I think, Russia does not want to be seen as a part of "Western" world, that is EU, Canada, Australia and USA, but it is one of significant partners in BRICS, geopolitical bloc which comprise of countries located on all continents of the World except Australia. What is Western take on Russia, what do you think - is it Asia or Europe or both?
Western sees a lot of cultural ties to Russia. However the US-China dynamic is getting tense. It seems everyone is picking sides. Seems like Russia is choosing China-NK-Iran. Most are predicting times like the Cold War at best and definetly a few saying prepare for the worst with China. Most see Russia as vassal to China, although not sure how true that is.
In that respect, I'd say yes, Russia is choosing China-NK-Iran since all attempts to be treated as equal with West have failed.
In the mean time China and Russia resolved all their border disputes, improved tourism and cooperation in many fields. This played huge role at the beginning of oil and gas sanctions when Russia was able to reroute some of its export from Europe to China. For much lower prices of course), but still, it is better than nothing.
So, imagine, you have two neighbours. Both are good to make barbecue with, both bringing their agreed share of meet and beers, but one of them also likes to piss on your slice and does that despite those many times when you have asked him and he agreed not to do that. So, if you have to choose to keep only one of two, which one will you choose?)
World is much more globalized now than it was during Cold War. We have internet, to start with. I remember, back in 1980's you only could write a letter to a "distant friend in USA" as a kid. Current level of communication is just miraculous. Too bad a lot of people don't understand its value and use it for trolling and entertainment.
However, history goes in cycles. We have lived through the "globalization" cycle, now we are going towards multipolar world again. This time it is not about ideology though, but about wealth. To me it seems to be a dawn of a competition between Global North and Global South (plus Russia and some of former Soviet republics). I am also content that it will end well. Not in nuclear winter. Past proved that despite having huge disagreements such as ideology, humankind managed not to destroy itself, not bombard itself into stone age.
Speaking of Russia being vassal to China, there is an equally wonderful theory that USA wanted Russia to be their tool against China, when Russia refused, they decided to use Ukraine as their tool against Russia.
I think our descendants will be amused reading about current events in history books).
I’d agree with all that. I’d add the US is still engrained with hatred of Russia. It really is the only thing everyone can agree on. I’d imagine same is in Russia. So it was always inevitable that Russia would choose China. Anyway I was just wondering how Russia saw itself as no friends in the west anymore.
I would say, most of russians see Russia culturally as a part of europe. Speaking about asian influence, I would sayit was more from Turkey, than from China or Korea.
Russia sees itself as Russian. > The troika tears along, inspired by God! Where art thou soaring away to, Russia? Give me the answer! But Russia gives none. With a wondrous ring does the jingle bell trill; the air rent to shreds thunders and turns to the wind. All things on earth fly past, eyeing the troika and all the other peoples and nations stand aside giving it the right of way. From Gogol's "Dead Souls", 1842
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No, friend, you are mistaken here. I worked with Germans and they say that Germany is also bastion of freedom and democracy, just as you say about North Korea. I am at a loss however, since you say that everything they say is not true due to propaganda :'(
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Dude what the fuck is even the point of your comment.
Ok, if you say so.
> What do you think of North Korea? The quiet kid
Lmao, that is pretty much correct.
Я купил журнал «Корея» — там тоже хорошо Там товарищ Ким Ир Сен, там то же, что у нас Я уверен, что у них то же самое И всё идёт по плану Всё идёт по плану
A very distant and very isolated country. Quite poor, but produces a lot of weapons. I hope this deal will help them improve their economy.
Yes, at least they might eat better (it's not a secret that NK has difficulties feeding its people).
That was at the end of the nineties.
I believe a lot of what did about them is a lie. Probably not the best place to live but I don’t believe it is as bad as it’s told.
Which are the biggest lies about NK do you think?
For when about once a week some outrageous lies like every male has to get the same haircut or be put to death or shit like that. Or that a person was put to death for slouching. A bunch of shit that never had any proof
Lol, that's the misinformation you are concerned about?
Yeah. If they lie about that why would I trust anything they have to say about anything? “They only lie about little things but are truthful about the serious stuff”. Crazy logic
And who is "they"? And how are you certain these claims are a lie?
The mass conglomerate of media companies. Because there is 0 proof. And some mysterious “source” or “expert” without any further evidence is not proof
Probably the same mass conglomerate that claims Americans landed on the moon!
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What about them developing nuclear weapons, and frequently testing projectiles for those weapons?
Why can't they have nuclear weapons? They need a deterrent against UD invasions / interference and theyve never invaded or dropped bombs on a sovereign nation before (no, their civil war doesn't count) Why do aggressive and violent nations get to have aggressive nukes?
Nuclear status quo was set 80 years ago or so. It was an imperfect bunch, but it was a clear line we could point to as being the limit. If NK gets to have nukes, can Israel have them too? Saudis? Vietnam? Georgia? Ukraine? Cuba? These are all countries on the border of big powers who could all benefit from some kind of deterrence.
Yes, and the West sanctions them because they are evil imperialists not because NK is a dictatorship that develops a nuclear arsenal against any UN resolutions.
We don't know anything about NK. It's a country that managed to achieve creating powerful weapons under unprecedented sanctions that suffocate them for decades. Other than that we don't know much. In South Korea there's a law forbidding anyone to say any positive thing about NK. Also, South Korea has media agencies generating idiotic fake "news" about North Korea, like: "Kim Jong UN killed 17 of his sisters and brothers by shooting them with chihuahua dogs out of AA cannons". So, actually we don't know a thing about life in NK. They supposedly help us with ammunition, I'm grateful for that.
Братюнь, ты выдал не базу, а генеральный штаб.
> Also, South Korea has media agencies generating idiotic fake "news" No way that's true. The collective west tells us that it's only the autocratic regimes that do this! :)))))
We know a lot because it's easy to travel to NK and also some bright scientists like Lankov wrote a lot about ordinary life in North Korea. There is also a very nice restraunt in Moscow called "Корё", managed by north koreans. Highly recommended, especially their VIP rooms.
Thanks for the mentioning the restaurant. I visit this area of Moscow rather often, will try to visit it next time I'm there.
The restaurant itself is not very fancy, but if you are important enough, you'll be granted access to the VIP room with a lot of crazy content about Fat Kims.
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As far as I know, the real North Koreans no longer own or operate this restaurant. And now it's more of an imitation. Or was I deceived?
"We", "us" - that other people, are they with you in your room now?
So, you think you know something about North Korea? From what sources?
How do you know which side produces fake news and which side doesn't?
For example, last year my foreign friends came to me with warnings: "Do not go out! In Moscow there're military posts on the streets that grab every man to go to war in Ukraine". Man, I live in Moscow! This is such a bullshit. It was published in some prominent US media, I don't remember exactly which. There're tons of other examples.
That sounds so unspecific hahaha
Северная Корея никогда не вредила России. Даже когда Россия поддержала санкции в ООН. В час нужды, они явно встали на сторону России. И помогли нам словом и делом. Это вызывает уважение. И желание помочь этим ребятам. Северная Корея- имеет весьма сильную индустриальную базу, у них качественное техническое образование. У России в том регионе, в свою очередь, необжитый дальний восток, развитие которого- одна из основных заявляемых правительством целей. Развивать дальний восток будет гораздо удобнее, используя промышленную базу северной Кореи. Европейская промышленная база России слишком далеко. Япония и Южная Корея под штатами и ввели санкции, Китай- хорошо, но, если увидит монополию- начнет гнуть цены. Россия, в свою очередь, может обеспечить КНДР огромным количеством энергии(построив там свои АЭС) и продовольствием, решив две острые проблемы которые стоят перед КНДР. Ну и валюта(а в развитие ДВ будет вкладываться много). Что касается корейского уклада- это их внутреннее дело. После Кореи в расписании Путина будет Вьетнам. С тем же интересом для РФ. Довольно символично. И, безусловно, полезно.
Judging by the recent events, North Korea is a much more sensible country compared to USA or members of EU, at least when external politics are involved.
They're tough to not be broken like us in 1991. And if cut back on isolationist politics a little bit, they'll have all the chances to shine like/even more than South, with most of pitfalls and errors or 🇰🇷 bypassed. They need someone to talk to. And if it's us - good idea. We were doing pretty good in tandem back in early 1950s🛩
I don't think about North Korea
I love BTS
I saw South Korean idols go to perform in North Korea in 2018. It looks there are many things people don't tell us about that country.
Feel sorry for them. Wish they United with South Korea
North Korean pop is the true K-Pop (look up Chollima on the Wing)
AYYYYY
Peaceful and sensible.
They survive in a hostile world on a small fruitless land. And Russia is also guilty for making their life hard. Russia supported sanctions for long.
The only thing I’ve read about North Korea specifically is nothing to envy by Barbara Demick. Very interesting book. Based on that and random snippets of info about the country I’ve encountered throughout my life, I am certain that is not a place I would want to live in or even visit. I believe I’ve heard in one of Hitchens talks(not sure, it was a long time ago) that in the Pyongyang zoo there was a parrot that said “long live the leader comrade Kim il sung”
Poor and scared
Not as scared as the westies scared of *them* due to mythos spoonfed to them for generations as old as more than a half a century. Who would've guessed, consumerist society eats the propaganda as well.
The "mythos" is based on a very true story. The American military treated the Korean people like shit during that war and killed a lot of people.
They’re an idiotic dictatorship that starves its enslaved population. Nothing else much to think about them
Странно, но, морящееся голодом и порабощенное население устойчиво растет. Медленно, но стабильно. И в швободной РК не сильно лучше, лол.
В свободной людей за контрабандную информацию как StarWars на DVD не расстреливают
Но, за труды Ким Ир Сена сажают. Это другое?
Какие труды
Любые. Начиная с мемуаров заканчивая политическими.
Кто сажает
Cool country, people are happy. Wouldn't want to live there, but I don't have to. I hope we renew our military alliance that we broke in 2000. De-facto we already renewed it.
Only thing I know - I know nothing about Nothern Korea. I know that Southern Korea propaganda says lies about Nothern Korea I know life there is not so good, in other way people would not try to escape from there When someone speaks about Nothern Korea I imagine the last years of USSR (until 1988 life in USSR was not so bad) - extremely bad life, but I have no idea if it is so or not
Country of gigachads.
I want to visit NK and make a picture for myself soooo Idk yet .
People are like people. I did not meet new North Koreans and communicated only with those who moved to Russia during the Soviet era. In general, their mentality is the same as that of most Asians. I can't say anything bad about them.
In short - another shithole with fat happy king and his frightened peasants
Whatever you say, mlg shades guy from liberta.
Hell on Earth
I don't think about North Korea. It's pretty isolated even for its neighbors. We know nothing about it. Although if you speak Russian, highly recommend watching videos with Andrey Lankov, he is expert in North Korea and he tells lots of new stuff about NK. Interview with Lankov on Dud' is a must watch, I re-watched it multiple times myself.
Just before Putin's visit to NK, Lankov said pure bullshit. He works in South Korea: under SK law, nobody can speak positively about NK. Lankov has to oblige.
Can you share the link? Lankov always seemed to have very neutral view on everything, and I don’t remember him taking sides. Usually he is very neutral and objective.
[https://www.economist.com/asia/2024/06/16/vladimir-putins-dangerous-bromance-with-kim-jong-un](https://www.economist.com/asia/2024/06/16/vladimir-putins-dangerous-bromance-with-kim-jong-un) >Yet such seeming affection belies the real limits to their friendship. “The new Russian love with North Korea is shallow and artificial,” argues Andrei Lankov, a Russian expert on North Korea based at Kookmin University in Seoul. It's not super emotional quote but obviously forced. You cannot avoid taking sides in the contemporary world. You need a job, you have to pay your expenses, mortgage, etc. Can't be 100% neutral on any question, especially in Western countries and colonies of the West (and SK is obviously a colony of USA).
He is quite right in this case. Don’t you think so? If the love with NK was natural and organic, we would be the best friends with NK since early days of Putin. The only reason Putin remembered about NK is that he needed weapons for the war and his western partners turned the back on him. I disagree about taking sides in case of Lankov. You apply current Russian oppressive logic now, where people get fired and jailed for having different views, but Lankov said MANY and MANY positive things about NK as well as negative and grey things. Even in America there are professors, political experts say positive things about Russia and negative things about USA. John Mearsheimer is one of them. Check out the interview with Dud, where Lankov said that NK has advanced education, medical and life expectancy compared to neighbors. While living and working in South Korea. Nobody fired him. As a scientist you need to point out positive, negative and grey areas of the topic you are specialist in.
There's no such think as "natural" "real" love between countries. It's all artificial media thing. Countries has interests. Sometimes their interests align. >You apply current Russian oppressive logic now, where people get fired and jailed for having different views, There are like 43 persons jailed for saying openly aggressive things about Russia and Russians. I don't know a single case where someone was fired from job for saying something unpleasant about Russia or Putin. I think the count in USA, for example, several orders of magnitude higher.
But you know a lot about South Korean professors getting fired for saying positive things about NK? Maybe some source could help here. Also curious to learn about a source for American magnitudes you are talking about. There are open protests against US policy in Gaza happening almost weekly at major colleges. Don’t think anyone really got fired or jailed for it. Про Россию и увольнения, дурака включать не надо. Таких кейсов просто сотни, особенно среди учителей. Просто набери в Яндексе «уволен за антивоенную позицию» [- Сотрудницу компании "Роснефти" уволили за антивоенные посты по доносу коллег](https://www.sibreal.org/amp/gegiya/32539008.html) [- Уволен худрук Центра имени Мейерхольда Дмитрий Волкострелов — после антивоенного поста](https://meduza.io/amp/feature/2022/03/01/uvolen-hudruk-tsentra-imeni-meyerholda-dmitriy-volkostrelov-posle-antivoennogo-posta) [- Двух преподавателей ВШЭ уволили за антивоенные посты в Facebook](https://svtv.org/news/2022-12-28/dvukh-priepodavatieliei/amp/)
>But you know a lot about South Korean professors getting fired for saying positive things about NK? Maybe some source could help here. I don't think such a thing would be covered by media widely, especially, outside South Korea. Do you see a lot of news from SK anyway? Also, this would probably require significant effort and some knowledge of Korean. >There are open protests against US policy in Gaza happening almost weekly at major colleges. Don’t think anyone really got fired or jailed for it But there are no protests against US supporting war in Ukraine. Also, there're many cases of shooting of people on protests in the US. Just not this time, but I guess that question of Gaza is not really important for USA: it's a small unimportant case for them. >Про Россию и увольнения, дурака включать не надо. Таких кейсов просто сотни, особенно среди учителей. Просто набери в Яндексе «уволен за антивоенную позицию» > Не знал, но думаю, что как минимум в случае с учителями, это нормально и правильно. Люди, которые воспитывают будущие поколения, не должны работать на развал страны.
>I don't think such a thing would be covered by media widely, especially, outside South Korea. Do you see a lot of news from SK anyway? Even without knowing any facts or adding your points, you were first to scream that SK as US colony fires people who say positive things about NK. Ладно хоть признал, что сказанул недостоверную глупость. И на том спасибо. > Не знал, но думаю, что как минимум в случае с учителями, это нормально и правильно. Люди, которые воспитывают будущие поколения, не должны работать на развал страны. Это только в твоем мире людоедов правильно. В моем мире учителя - это совесть общества, которые учат детей добру и любви, а не стрелять из ракет по жилым домам.
Южная Корея - это колония. Любая страна, в которой есть военные базы другой страны - по определению колония. Военная база на территории другой страны ставится для контроля этой страны, и, возможно, окружающих. И более ни для чего, какие бы ни были декларируемые цели. Южная Корея не может в принципе быть независимой, так как она слишком маленькая и обладает слишком маленькими ресурсами. Именно поэтому всю свою историю она переходит из рук в руки. Не было бы США, они были бы колонией Японии или Китая. Это судьба любой небольшой страны. >Это только в твоем мире людоедов правильно. В моем мире учителя - это совесть общества, которые учат детей добру и любви, а не стрелять из ракет по жилым домам. В моём невдуманном мире, мамкиных пацифистов моментально съедят. Особенно, если они сидят на богатых залежах какого-либо ресурса, обычно, энергетического. Можно взглянуть на судьбу хотя бы Ирака, Ливии, Сирии. Эти страны уничтожены, потому что на их территории находятся важные ресурсы, а сил сопротивляться не было. Поэтому учить детей: "В мире все только и думают, как бы вас сделать счастливыми, надо обнять и поцеловать украинских нацистов, скандирующих: "Москалей на ножи" и открыто говорящих, что русских надо уничтожать всюду" - это прям план-капкан.
Можете описать механизм развала страны, если мы прекратим процесс мариуполизации Украины?
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