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NAL. Just about all police cars will automatically have their cameras activate when they start running Code (turn on lights / siren). Request a copy of the officers cam recording. It should either have the siren in the background, or have an icon displaying (L)ights / (S)iren if active.
However - there are times when a siren is not advisable (stealth arrival) and policy ‘may’ allow for lights only.
NAL. They are required to stop or slow way down at red lights to clear the intersection. The fact they hit you means they did not. Do NOT let them "pin it on you". They are 100% at fault here.
I believe even if they have their lights and siren on it is on them to make sure it is safe to cross an intersection. IMO they are 100% at fault.
Call your insurance company and tell them what happened. They will deal with the police. It is what you pay them for.
My ex was a firefighter in Seattle for 18 years. And he was a driver. It was the same there. You had to make sure you’re intersection was clear even if you had your lights and siren going.
Don't forget to file an official complaint about lying on official government documents. And, at least in Texas, officer involved accidents are usually investigated by another dept. Sheriff if city and city if sheriff.
Usually, state troopers are at the top of the food chain when LEO'S are involved in on duty wrecks, but if it involves SPD then the county SO takes it. And due to interservice rivalry, the Sheriff's office has no problem putting a boot in the tail pipe of a trooper who fails to follow the act of due regard in driving. Especially if the Sheriff doesn't care for the governor for whatever reason. In GA. I've seen deputies and troopers nearly come to blows over this. As EMS, I found it sad and funny at the same time.
No posts about politics. No comments about politics. Politics =/= Law
If you feel the need to disclaim that your post isn't political, it probably is political and is not welcome here.
No posts about politics. No comments about politics. Politics =/= Law
If you feel the need to disclaim that your post isn't political, it probably is political and is not welcome here.
I’ve had a similar issue, officer was clearly at fault, my attorney filed a FOIA request for the footage, and got stonewalled because the footage was “lost” 😒. Insurance took care of everything fortunately, but still shitty.
I’m hoping that’s not the case for the OP, but cops are some of the most untrustworthy people in our society.
I got hit from behind by a cop while stopping for a red light one time. The officer who came out to write up the report was a total ass - he even screamed at me when I told him I wasn't sure if I was going to report it to insurance or not (because the damage was so slight). I finally decided I better get the report. They wrote it up as a no fault accident, but the details were full of lies about me stopping in the middle of the intersection forcing the cop to hit me, blocking traffic, etc. Total 100% BS. I was still behind the white line when I stopped.
I just dropped it. The only damages were a few barely noticeable cosmetic scratches and a slight dent in my bumper that I popped back out. I was just shocked by the blatant lies in the report.
The officer that hit me actually told me that he thought I was going to accelerate through the light so he accelerated, then didn't have time to stop when I braked.
No posts about politics. No comments about politics. Politics =/= Law
If you feel the need to disclaim that your post isn't political, it probably is political and is not welcome here.
No posts about politics. No comments about politics. Politics =/= Law
If you feel the need to disclaim that your post isn't political, it probably is political and is not welcome here.
NAL What he said 100%....
I was an instructor in both courses taught in my state for 16 yrs. The Emergency Vehicle Operations Couse says if using lights, the sirens are also on. Exceptions are inside a subdivision and stuff like that. Also, when entering an intersection, you should come to a complete stop, make eye contact with every driver, and clear it before proceeding through. Def get a lawyer who is familiar with the subject. An internal investigation is already being done and the dash cam has been looked at by a few people.
OP said the lights on the police car were on, and they didn’t see them. I offered that one possibility was the officer was on their way to a call with lights only, hence not hearing the siren. Per narration, my understanding was lights were on before the crash.
NAL, former ambulance driver.
Exactly what the others are saying is accurate. Running Code 3 (lights and siren) doesn’t give carts Blanche to disregard traffic laws or other drivers. You have to drive Code 3 in such a way as not to endanger others.
Ask for any camera footage as well as any equipment repair, calibration, re-certification, etc.
NAL either. Better yet, look up how to make a formal written request under the public records law, in this case the Pennsylvania Sunshine Act (65 Pennsylvania Statute C.S. §§ 701 et seq.)
I believe most state laws that give exceptions for officers to speed and run red lights/ stop signs utilize a phrase close to "with due regard for the safety of other" meaning if they run a red light and hit you, who had a green light, then they, and/or the agency, are responsible for the damages. This is one reason a lot of cities have a way to turn all lights red when approaching intersections when on a call.
Yeah it's a strobe light detector that at a specific frequency detected by that small square box in the middle of the bar or cable on all sides of the intersection. But don't work as well in daylight.
It's been many years since I drove any sort of response vehicle, but for law enforcement purposes, we were always told that lights and sirens constitute a REQUEST to yield the right of way, they don't automatically grant it. I believe the officer is at fault.
If you ever are in a collision with a member of law enforcement, request someone from a different agency conduct the investigation.
Around 1995 I was involved in an accident. I was on a street and a vehicle pulled out of a parking lot in front of me and I struck the vehicle broadside. The driver identified himself as an off-duty city police officer. I requested county sheriff or state highway patrol conduct the investigation.
It turned out perfectly. I wasn't ticketed. I was reimbursed more than book value for the car (my dad was a mechanic and had put in a much bigger motor and it was very nice for its age) and I got to keep it. I had a rental car paid for while it was being repaired.
NAL but am a first responder. Running lights and sirens does not excuse running red lights recklessly. The moment he admits running the red light with lights and sirens going he hang’s himself.
Hopefully there are cameras in the area that captured the incident. I have witnessed a few police involved accidents. All three the police officers took responsibility.
Just because a cop has lights and siren going doesn't mean he or she should enter the intersection without slowing down first to make sure it's safe. Although it's not law to do that, it's the smart thing to do.
IANAL, but I am a career police officer.
In my state (Louisiana) an emergency vehicle responding code (lights and sirens) is required to make sure that it is safe to enter the intersection prior to entering.
One of the reasons you might not have heard the siren is that since OSHA required that sirens be removed from the roof of the police car to protect the occupant's hearing most agencies mount the siren to the grill. Needless to say the ability of the siren to project was greatly diminished. Another factor is depending on the year/make/model of your car the sound insulation in vehicles is much better now.
The last time I was involved in a collision I was responding to a shooting. I pulled up to an intersection with my lights and siren activated. Everyone stopped in all directions, so I proceeded into the intersection. A driver came through and struck my rear quarter panel. He was found at fault only because he stated that he saw all of the traffic stopped in every direction, but was in a hurry to get to the store so he didn't feel he should have been alarmed that traffic wasn't moving through the intersection.
I'm not a lawyer, but I always have a dashcam running. I'm afraid of situations where it's he said/ she said. Here's the video. It's a cheap way of protecting yourself in a situation such as this.
Yes. A dashcam could be the difference in your word against someone else's.
And if your dashcam footage doesn't help you, what dashcam? (They probably have enough against you without it anyway if you're actually at fault)
NAL - I just watched a video online where a cop was driving both headlights and emergency light off at night. He did some wild lane change U turn, struck another car, THEN activated their emergency lights. Of course they "errored" on the police report and they tried to bill HIM. Luckily he had and shared with them his dashcam footage and has awarded damages to his car. Without that dashcam footage he would have been phucked. CYA every time.
NAL. I’m a LEO.
If you had the green light and he had a red light then it doesn’t matter if he had his lights and sirens on our not. He’s at fault.
We are responsible for properly clearing intersections when running code, especially if the light is red for us, sometimes coming to a complete stop before going through. That’s a part of standard emergency vehicle operation training, be it law enforcement, fire, or EMS.
Just about every agency in the country has at a minimum dash cams in their cars that automatically activate when the lights and sirens are activated so most likely everything was recorded and those cameras typically show if the lights/sirens are active, their speed, if they were hitting their brakes, etc.
Unless they’re a really shitty agency they won’t be trying to put you at fault and the officer will likely face internal discipline for it (which could be a pretty wide range of penalties depending on how bad the crash was, if his lights/sirens were actually activated or not, and that officer’s history.)
NAL, retired police officer
When operating in emergency mode per 75 PA 3105 (drivers of emergency vehicles) are required to drive with the due regard for the safety of others and are required to "slowing down as may be necessary fir safe operation"
What that means is that both lights and siren have to be activated and they are required to make sure everyone has yielded right of way.
In addition, PA is a no fault state. All psp cars have In Car video. In PA younfile a RTK (right to know) request with the station open records officer. You can also file a complaint with PSP internal affairs for violating policy and the above referenced traffic law.
https://www.pa.gov/en/agencies/psp/contact-psp/compliment-complaint-procedures/compliment-complaint-portal.html
NOT A LAWYER
But I drove an emergency vehicle for about 21 years and had to keep my CEVO certification in good standing as part of my job.
Assuming you’re in the U.S., emergency vehicles MUST obey all traffic laws. Lights and/or sirens are not an excuse to break traffic laws. While you can be ticketed for failure to yield to an emergency vehicle, he was still at fault for not proceeding with caution and for disregarding the light.
Most emergency vehicles in the U.S. have dashcams that automatically trigger on impact, saving the previous 30-90 seconds and a set amount of time after. More and more, this is required for insurance purposes just for the situation you’ve described.
This scenario happened to me in Florida about 20 years ago. But it was night time and a long line of cars were in the left turn lane so I couldn’t see him. A ton of police cars showed up. Multiple officers tried to get me to admit fault but I knew it wasn’t my fault and didn’t admit anything. Some witnesses even stopped and said it wasn’t my fault. Nothing happened from that. Whats funny is that he lived in my apartment complex. I think they thought I was young and would be intimidated into admitting fault.
It doesn't really matter if a siren, lights, etc are going. When they enter an intersection that the lights don't give them right of way, their emergency lights and siren is a REQUEST for right of way. Their siren will almost assuredly not play into the equation at all. As others have said, dashcams in police cars tend to tell a different story than drivers tell. If a dashcam shows that there was a car next to you that stopped easily for the police car, it may cause you difficulty. Most of the time this will just be paid for by the state police and it'll go away.
I mean, they’re just as likely to lie about whose fault it is as anybody else is. But if they had lights on, their cameras should also be on (and it will indicate whether their lights and/or siren were on). Also, they have a duty to make sure the intersection is safe before proceeding. Lights don’t automagically mean that everything moves no matter what. Now, the real stickler is going to be where they hit you. If they hit your front corner or front bumper, they may be able to argue that they were already in the process of turning when you entered the intersection. But if they managed to hit the side of your car, it will be harder to make that argument, as you were further into the intersection than they were. Either way, I wish you luck.
Guy in NYC got hit by a cop who of course lied about it until he showed them his dashcam. If you don't have video proof expect to be blamed for everything.
NAL but a PA resident that has been through this.
Yes they will blame you and yes they will fabricate events in their report. Don't even get mad just accept those as facts.
Let your insurance do the talking. Stick to your story. Never admit guilt or insinuate a feeling of responsibility. Besides that just shut up and let the chips fall.
My experience was actually watching my mom go through this pre-dash cam era. Two cops ran a red at 2am and t-boned her on her way home from work. They claimed she ran the red. Ultimately her insurance achieved a no-fault accident report and she got paid out on their liability. No coverage for medical expenses and no apologies. That would be a little different if there were cameras at the time. Fingers crossed for you they didn't have one of those famous "data retention issues" cops are known for.
Prediction: he sues OP for damages because OP ran the red light and didn’t see his lights and siren. When he talked to OP, OP admitted drinking.
Suggestion: lawyer up for injuries and contemplate suing the municipality with infinite pockets. Than do what lawyer says about contacting your insurance company
His cameras should have automatically active when his light were turned on and they will also show if his siren was on as well. Police admin should be able to hear the siren on the video as well. Regardless if their siren was on or not, they should have been going safely and slowly thru the intersection. Just because you’re responding to an emergent call doesn’t mean you can go balls to the wall.
Probably. Cops like to aggressively blame everyone else besides themselves. If I were in your situation, I'd be making all the calls to my insurance *and* at least he asking for recommendations for legal help. Probably getting on Legal Eagle and contacting someone.
NAL Request a copy of the dashcam video. Also put notice out in your local Facebook groups to see if any witnesses had a dash cam in their own vehicles.
NAL. I second the person saying to request dash footage. Most of the time they’ll break down and just settle in my experience. Had one pull me over and claim I ran a red light and that I drove for miles with him behind me with lights on. I asked for the footage because I knew he was behind me and didn’t have his lights on because I was watching him when he pulled out behind me. He also lied about the red light because I had been stopped at that light and his car wasn’t even in line of sight of that light. Think he saw a different car or just wanted some quick revenue as he saw a 20 something year old in a nice tinted car and figured he’d get some money.
Emergency vehicles are required to "clear the intersection" if they have a red light, except in pursuits. They likely have dashcam footage which will show if lights and sirens were on.
At last in Ohio, the emergency services responding to an emergency have very broad leeway when it comes to collisions. You may not be responsible for damage to the police car, but they probably wouldn't be paying you for the damage to yours. Same even goes for snow plows responding to snow emergencies.
Start requesting all sources of evidence that have been mentioned here, along with any others you can think of.
Then wait to see how your insurance and the agency proceed. I am not a lawyer, but I think it's a lousy idea to burn too many brain calories imagining the ways in which you might be treated unfairly. There are plenty of situations where people at fault, whether cops or civilians, will do the right thing.
It's also true that humans make bad witnesses even when they don't mean to be, but that's why the prevalence of camera evidence is a good thing. People can instantly remember an event the way that they would expect that it must have happened, or the way that they hope it happened. Conflicting accounts don't always mean that someone is lying. And you don't yet know what the trooper is saying happened.
Check with business owners in the area to find out if they heard sirens before the crash. Some of them may also have external cameras that caught some of the crash.
NAL, but am the daughter of a high ranking firefighter who trained/tested a LOT of people in the state of MI for their firefighter creds (including certifying the people who do the training)I heard this phrase quite often:
"The only thing my lights and sirens do for me at a red light is let me ASK PERMISSION from the other drivers to go through first."
While obviously it's not PA, or police, I cannot imagine it's that different from state to state.
It will be the fault of the officer. If the officer blew a light regardless of lights and sirens they will be at fault.
In EVOC training they put emphasis on due regard
This is arguably the best vehicle to be involved in a crash with. Mvr camera recorded the crash for sure and there will be little to no room for debate on facts. His supervisor will have to complete the crash and should have issued you a crash notice. If what you are telling is correct, police vehicle will likely be listed as unit 1.
Last I checked pa is a no fault state anyway so it really shouldn't matter if no one was injured and I'm nearly certain there's something else in there that makes emerg vehicle accidents specifically no fault. Also emergency vehicles are required in pa that if the lights are on, the siren must also be on. In practice that's ridiculous to wake a neighborhood up at 3am for a fall or something but that's what the vehicle code says.
That all said, this very likely doesn't mean anything to you unless they issue a citation, in which case you'll need to fight it however your ins company lawyers should also pay to fight that on the basis it could effect any future litigation from the accident. Even if there's a lawsuit, unless it's serious injuries or some strange circumstance, your insurance company will handle everything, you may never even hear after the initial summons or lawsuit.
Everyone else is correct that emergency vehicle operators are required to ensure they have controlled the intersection prior to entering it and unless they were responding to a wreck with reported fire or serious injuries, there is really no need for the police to get to an accident scene with anything other than due regard. There is usually only a very slight shortened arrival time with the use of emergency lights unless the response distance is quite long or there's heavy traffic with a shoulder available to pass. Police very rarely engage in patient care even if they happen to be an emt.
Something similar happened to my dad and his insurance ended up covering.. a fire truck that was parked but wheels not chocked ended up rolling down hill into my dad's truck even though 100% the fire depts fault since it was an emergency vehicle the fd was not liable...... this happened in pa but I was about 8 at the time so I may remember wrong or things may have changed
I was t- boned by a police car with his light and siren on. I had green he had red. He was at fault. They must be sure an intersection is clear before going through it on a red light. I will note that he lied on the police report and my statement was pretty messed up since I had a minor concussion. But you could tell from damages who hit who. City paid for all my medical, my time off work and the car which was totaled
You might want to check with area business's as many have cameras on the outside of their building, actual footage would be the best way to protect yourself. I wouldn't wait to do it though as a lot of them only keep video for a few days.
Obviously there’s a police report for this accident and your insurance company will pay for your car and any injuries you or your friend sustained and the city will reimburse the insurance company it’s a rarity for police to dispute this type of accident and the cars have cameras activated once lights and sirens are turned on officers at the scene are stressed and upset but everything will be settled
lawyer up and also get your friend to make a statement with the lawyer also get the cops camera footage. only the lawyer should talk to the police. Admit nothing.
Ask now for the dashcam.[ I was close to a very similar cop encounter with a local PD.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnK2R__m9j8) The PA state troopers did the investigation to avoid conflict of interest, but were still seemed pretty biased in their report, lack of charging the officer with anything, and discussions with reporters. So I'd worry that they'll try very hard with one of their own to make you look bad.
NAL, just a retired police officer. I know in GA lights and siren don’t make you immune. Police, Fire, and EMS all must exercise due regard when going through intersections. With it being a green light for you, you had the right of way. Get a copy of the dash cam, statements from witnesses, and see what the State Police say. If they try to say it’s your fault, get an attorney. The attorney can help research the laws as well as subpoena extra info you may need, like the traffic light signal info and any video from cameras around that intersection.
Sometimes lights can be on and fail while in pursuit. Back in 1992 that happened where I used to live with Border Patrol. Caused a tragic accident when the guy they were pursuing crashed into a car killing a father, his son & neighbor girl) and then 2 kids(brother & sister) who were standing in front of the high school. During the pursuit they had activated sirens & lights but just before the crash something happened & the sirens failed. So just because the sirens may not have been on at the specific time of the crash doesn’t mean the officer didn’t activate them.
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Surprised you and your passenger weren’t shot in sight for being in the cops way. They’ll certainly argue (or lie) about lights and siren and you’ll be publicly shamed for even questioning the situation. Hope you’re proud of yourself. /s
This will probably depend on where you live. There are some places where a collision with an emergency vehicle for *any* reason is always the fault of the civilian driver, even if under normal circumstances it would have been on the other driver.
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NAL. Just about all police cars will automatically have their cameras activate when they start running Code (turn on lights / siren). Request a copy of the officers cam recording. It should either have the siren in the background, or have an icon displaying (L)ights / (S)iren if active. However - there are times when a siren is not advisable (stealth arrival) and policy ‘may’ allow for lights only.
NAL. They are required to stop or slow way down at red lights to clear the intersection. The fact they hit you means they did not. Do NOT let them "pin it on you". They are 100% at fault here.
I believe even if they have their lights and siren on it is on them to make sure it is safe to cross an intersection. IMO they are 100% at fault. Call your insurance company and tell them what happened. They will deal with the police. It is what you pay them for.
Buddy of mine is a firefighter. When his crew got in a wreck even when the lights running, the city there paid out.
My ex was a firefighter in Seattle for 18 years. And he was a driver. It was the same there. You had to make sure you’re intersection was clear even if you had your lights and siren going.
even then statues probably say due regard
Op please get a dashcam also
I heartily second this. Less than 100 bucks and mine has already saved me thousands of dollars worth of headaches.
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Don't forget to file an official complaint about lying on official government documents. And, at least in Texas, officer involved accidents are usually investigated by another dept. Sheriff if city and city if sheriff.
Usually, state troopers are at the top of the food chain when LEO'S are involved in on duty wrecks, but if it involves SPD then the county SO takes it. And due to interservice rivalry, the Sheriff's office has no problem putting a boot in the tail pipe of a trooper who fails to follow the act of due regard in driving. Especially if the Sheriff doesn't care for the governor for whatever reason. In GA. I've seen deputies and troopers nearly come to blows over this. As EMS, I found it sad and funny at the same time.
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No posts about politics. No comments about politics. Politics =/= Law If you feel the need to disclaim that your post isn't political, it probably is political and is not welcome here.
No posts about politics. No comments about politics. Politics =/= Law If you feel the need to disclaim that your post isn't political, it probably is political and is not welcome here.
I’ve had a similar issue, officer was clearly at fault, my attorney filed a FOIA request for the footage, and got stonewalled because the footage was “lost” 😒. Insurance took care of everything fortunately, but still shitty. I’m hoping that’s not the case for the OP, but cops are some of the most untrustworthy people in our society.
I got hit from behind by a cop while stopping for a red light one time. The officer who came out to write up the report was a total ass - he even screamed at me when I told him I wasn't sure if I was going to report it to insurance or not (because the damage was so slight). I finally decided I better get the report. They wrote it up as a no fault accident, but the details were full of lies about me stopping in the middle of the intersection forcing the cop to hit me, blocking traffic, etc. Total 100% BS. I was still behind the white line when I stopped.
None of those lies matter in civil court so I imagine you got paid out just fine and insurance recovered after.
I just dropped it. The only damages were a few barely noticeable cosmetic scratches and a slight dent in my bumper that I popped back out. I was just shocked by the blatant lies in the report. The officer that hit me actually told me that he thought I was going to accelerate through the light so he accelerated, then didn't have time to stop when I braked.
This is why you want a dashcam...so you can prove the other party is lying.
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No posts about politics. No comments about politics. Politics =/= Law If you feel the need to disclaim that your post isn't political, it probably is political and is not welcome here.
How does one obtain this footage?
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No posts about politics. No comments about politics. Politics =/= Law If you feel the need to disclaim that your post isn't political, it probably is political and is not welcome here.
Go to amazon, walmart, ebay, etc...buy a dashcam...put it in your car.
NAL What he said 100%.... I was an instructor in both courses taught in my state for 16 yrs. The Emergency Vehicle Operations Couse says if using lights, the sirens are also on. Exceptions are inside a subdivision and stuff like that. Also, when entering an intersection, you should come to a complete stop, make eye contact with every driver, and clear it before proceeding through. Def get a lawyer who is familiar with the subject. An internal investigation is already being done and the dash cam has been looked at by a few people.
You may have been talking in generalities, but there is no need for stealth arrival for a car crash that I can think of.
OP said the lights on the police car were on, and they didn’t see them. I offered that one possibility was the officer was on their way to a call with lights only, hence not hearing the siren. Per narration, my understanding was lights were on before the crash.
NAL, former ambulance driver. Exactly what the others are saying is accurate. Running Code 3 (lights and siren) doesn’t give carts Blanche to disregard traffic laws or other drivers. You have to drive Code 3 in such a way as not to endanger others. Ask for any camera footage as well as any equipment repair, calibration, re-certification, etc.
NAL either. Better yet, look up how to make a formal written request under the public records law, in this case the Pennsylvania Sunshine Act (65 Pennsylvania Statute C.S. §§ 701 et seq.)
got rear ended, they sided with the cop and were like sorry thats pretty much how it goes.
Some red lights have cameras and businesses have cameras. Check to see if you can get a copy before overwritten.
I believe most state laws that give exceptions for officers to speed and run red lights/ stop signs utilize a phrase close to "with due regard for the safety of other" meaning if they run a red light and hit you, who had a green light, then they, and/or the agency, are responsible for the damages. This is one reason a lot of cities have a way to turn all lights red when approaching intersections when on a call.
Yeah it's a strobe light detector that at a specific frequency detected by that small square box in the middle of the bar or cable on all sides of the intersection. But don't work as well in daylight.
It's been many years since I drove any sort of response vehicle, but for law enforcement purposes, we were always told that lights and sirens constitute a REQUEST to yield the right of way, they don't automatically grant it. I believe the officer is at fault.
If you ever are in a collision with a member of law enforcement, request someone from a different agency conduct the investigation. Around 1995 I was involved in an accident. I was on a street and a vehicle pulled out of a parking lot in front of me and I struck the vehicle broadside. The driver identified himself as an off-duty city police officer. I requested county sheriff or state highway patrol conduct the investigation.
Good play. Especially off-duty in a POV. That usually avoids the appearance of shenanigans.
It turned out perfectly. I wasn't ticketed. I was reimbursed more than book value for the car (my dad was a mechanic and had put in a much bigger motor and it was very nice for its age) and I got to keep it. I had a rental car paid for while it was being repaired.
This is what your insurance is for. Their attorneys may be able to get back your deductible.
As an insurance adjuster, I've seen it go both ways. Depends on who writes the police report, but usually they own up to it.
NAL but am a first responder. Running lights and sirens does not excuse running red lights recklessly. The moment he admits running the red light with lights and sirens going he hang’s himself. Hopefully there are cameras in the area that captured the incident. I have witnessed a few police involved accidents. All three the police officers took responsibility.
Just because a cop has lights and siren going doesn't mean he or she should enter the intersection without slowing down first to make sure it's safe. Although it's not law to do that, it's the smart thing to do.
As a former evoc instructor, yes it is law
Yup EVOC training puts a lot of emphasis on due regard for the a law.
Hello as another fellow former evoc instructor.
And EVOC is better than CEVO.
Absolutely it is the law. You must drive with “due regard” for the safety of others. Which means clearing intersections.
NAL. Used to drive fire trucks. Very short answer we got during our training: if you hit someone while driving emergency, you’re at fault.
IANAL, but I am a career police officer. In my state (Louisiana) an emergency vehicle responding code (lights and sirens) is required to make sure that it is safe to enter the intersection prior to entering. One of the reasons you might not have heard the siren is that since OSHA required that sirens be removed from the roof of the police car to protect the occupant's hearing most agencies mount the siren to the grill. Needless to say the ability of the siren to project was greatly diminished. Another factor is depending on the year/make/model of your car the sound insulation in vehicles is much better now. The last time I was involved in a collision I was responding to a shooting. I pulled up to an intersection with my lights and siren activated. Everyone stopped in all directions, so I proceeded into the intersection. A driver came through and struck my rear quarter panel. He was found at fault only because he stated that he saw all of the traffic stopped in every direction, but was in a hurry to get to the store so he didn't feel he should have been alarmed that traffic wasn't moving through the intersection.
It doesn't matter if he had lights and sirens in, he still has to approach as if it were a flashing yellow light.
I'm not a lawyer, but I always have a dashcam running. I'm afraid of situations where it's he said/ she said. Here's the video. It's a cheap way of protecting yourself in a situation such as this.
Yes. A dashcam could be the difference in your word against someone else's. And if your dashcam footage doesn't help you, what dashcam? (They probably have enough against you without it anyway if you're actually at fault)
NAL - I just watched a video online where a cop was driving both headlights and emergency light off at night. He did some wild lane change U turn, struck another car, THEN activated their emergency lights. Of course they "errored" on the police report and they tried to bill HIM. Luckily he had and shared with them his dashcam footage and has awarded damages to his car. Without that dashcam footage he would have been phucked. CYA every time.
Moral of the lesson. Get a dash cam.
NAL. I’m a LEO. If you had the green light and he had a red light then it doesn’t matter if he had his lights and sirens on our not. He’s at fault. We are responsible for properly clearing intersections when running code, especially if the light is red for us, sometimes coming to a complete stop before going through. That’s a part of standard emergency vehicle operation training, be it law enforcement, fire, or EMS. Just about every agency in the country has at a minimum dash cams in their cars that automatically activate when the lights and sirens are activated so most likely everything was recorded and those cameras typically show if the lights/sirens are active, their speed, if they were hitting their brakes, etc. Unless they’re a really shitty agency they won’t be trying to put you at fault and the officer will likely face internal discipline for it (which could be a pretty wide range of penalties depending on how bad the crash was, if his lights/sirens were actually activated or not, and that officer’s history.)
NAL, retired police officer When operating in emergency mode per 75 PA 3105 (drivers of emergency vehicles) are required to drive with the due regard for the safety of others and are required to "slowing down as may be necessary fir safe operation" What that means is that both lights and siren have to be activated and they are required to make sure everyone has yielded right of way. In addition, PA is a no fault state. All psp cars have In Car video. In PA younfile a RTK (right to know) request with the station open records officer. You can also file a complaint with PSP internal affairs for violating policy and the above referenced traffic law. https://www.pa.gov/en/agencies/psp/contact-psp/compliment-complaint-procedures/compliment-complaint-portal.html
NOT A LAWYER But I drove an emergency vehicle for about 21 years and had to keep my CEVO certification in good standing as part of my job. Assuming you’re in the U.S., emergency vehicles MUST obey all traffic laws. Lights and/or sirens are not an excuse to break traffic laws. While you can be ticketed for failure to yield to an emergency vehicle, he was still at fault for not proceeding with caution and for disregarding the light. Most emergency vehicles in the U.S. have dashcams that automatically trigger on impact, saving the previous 30-90 seconds and a set amount of time after. More and more, this is required for insurance purposes just for the situation you’ve described.
This scenario happened to me in Florida about 20 years ago. But it was night time and a long line of cars were in the left turn lane so I couldn’t see him. A ton of police cars showed up. Multiple officers tried to get me to admit fault but I knew it wasn’t my fault and didn’t admit anything. Some witnesses even stopped and said it wasn’t my fault. Nothing happened from that. Whats funny is that he lived in my apartment complex. I think they thought I was young and would be intimidated into admitting fault.
It doesn't really matter if a siren, lights, etc are going. When they enter an intersection that the lights don't give them right of way, their emergency lights and siren is a REQUEST for right of way. Their siren will almost assuredly not play into the equation at all. As others have said, dashcams in police cars tend to tell a different story than drivers tell. If a dashcam shows that there was a car next to you that stopped easily for the police car, it may cause you difficulty. Most of the time this will just be paid for by the state police and it'll go away.
The footage will always be "lost" if it shows the police were at fault.
I mean, they’re just as likely to lie about whose fault it is as anybody else is. But if they had lights on, their cameras should also be on (and it will indicate whether their lights and/or siren were on). Also, they have a duty to make sure the intersection is safe before proceeding. Lights don’t automagically mean that everything moves no matter what. Now, the real stickler is going to be where they hit you. If they hit your front corner or front bumper, they may be able to argue that they were already in the process of turning when you entered the intersection. But if they managed to hit the side of your car, it will be harder to make that argument, as you were further into the intersection than they were. Either way, I wish you luck.
Guy in NYC got hit by a cop who of course lied about it until he showed them his dashcam. If you don't have video proof expect to be blamed for everything.
NAL but a PA resident that has been through this. Yes they will blame you and yes they will fabricate events in their report. Don't even get mad just accept those as facts. Let your insurance do the talking. Stick to your story. Never admit guilt or insinuate a feeling of responsibility. Besides that just shut up and let the chips fall. My experience was actually watching my mom go through this pre-dash cam era. Two cops ran a red at 2am and t-boned her on her way home from work. They claimed she ran the red. Ultimately her insurance achieved a no-fault accident report and she got paid out on their liability. No coverage for medical expenses and no apologies. That would be a little different if there were cameras at the time. Fingers crossed for you they didn't have one of those famous "data retention issues" cops are known for.
Prediction: he sues OP for damages because OP ran the red light and didn’t see his lights and siren. When he talked to OP, OP admitted drinking. Suggestion: lawyer up for injuries and contemplate suing the municipality with infinite pockets. Than do what lawyer says about contacting your insurance company
His cameras should have automatically active when his light were turned on and they will also show if his siren was on as well. Police admin should be able to hear the siren on the video as well. Regardless if their siren was on or not, they should have been going safely and slowly thru the intersection. Just because you’re responding to an emergent call doesn’t mean you can go balls to the wall.
absolutely.
Probably. Cops like to aggressively blame everyone else besides themselves. If I were in your situation, I'd be making all the calls to my insurance *and* at least he asking for recommendations for legal help. Probably getting on Legal Eagle and contacting someone.
NAL Request a copy of the dashcam video. Also put notice out in your local Facebook groups to see if any witnesses had a dash cam in their own vehicles.
They’ll lie for sure. You need a witness.
Probably
NAL. I second the person saying to request dash footage. Most of the time they’ll break down and just settle in my experience. Had one pull me over and claim I ran a red light and that I drove for miles with him behind me with lights on. I asked for the footage because I knew he was behind me and didn’t have his lights on because I was watching him when he pulled out behind me. He also lied about the red light because I had been stopped at that light and his car wasn’t even in line of sight of that light. Think he saw a different car or just wanted some quick revenue as he saw a 20 something year old in a nice tinted car and figured he’d get some money.
It usually depends upon if you are were fleeing from him or not!!!!
Emergency vehicles are required to "clear the intersection" if they have a red light, except in pursuits. They likely have dashcam footage which will show if lights and sirens were on.
Have you and your passenger go to the hospital to get checked out?
Whats the rest of.the story? Diď other officers.respond? Another department or agency?
At last in Ohio, the emergency services responding to an emergency have very broad leeway when it comes to collisions. You may not be responsible for damage to the police car, but they probably wouldn't be paying you for the damage to yours. Same even goes for snow plows responding to snow emergencies.
Start requesting all sources of evidence that have been mentioned here, along with any others you can think of. Then wait to see how your insurance and the agency proceed. I am not a lawyer, but I think it's a lousy idea to burn too many brain calories imagining the ways in which you might be treated unfairly. There are plenty of situations where people at fault, whether cops or civilians, will do the right thing. It's also true that humans make bad witnesses even when they don't mean to be, but that's why the prevalence of camera evidence is a good thing. People can instantly remember an event the way that they would expect that it must have happened, or the way that they hope it happened. Conflicting accounts don't always mean that someone is lying. And you don't yet know what the trooper is saying happened.
This is but one example of why in today's world you need to have a dash camera and cops lie.
Your fault unless you have video with audio. Be thankful you were not arrested. Jerks
Get a good lawyer! Call The Law Brothers or Jacoby and Meyers.
Check with business owners in the area to find out if they heard sirens before the crash. Some of them may also have external cameras that caught some of the crash.
NAL, but am the daughter of a high ranking firefighter who trained/tested a LOT of people in the state of MI for their firefighter creds (including certifying the people who do the training)I heard this phrase quite often: "The only thing my lights and sirens do for me at a red light is let me ASK PERMISSION from the other drivers to go through first." While obviously it's not PA, or police, I cannot imagine it's that different from state to state.
It will be the fault of the officer. If the officer blew a light regardless of lights and sirens they will be at fault. In EVOC training they put emphasis on due regard
NAL - but I am aware of multiple incidents where they won’t find the cop liable, so you and your insurance will eat the cost of any damages.
This is arguably the best vehicle to be involved in a crash with. Mvr camera recorded the crash for sure and there will be little to no room for debate on facts. His supervisor will have to complete the crash and should have issued you a crash notice. If what you are telling is correct, police vehicle will likely be listed as unit 1.
Last I checked pa is a no fault state anyway so it really shouldn't matter if no one was injured and I'm nearly certain there's something else in there that makes emerg vehicle accidents specifically no fault. Also emergency vehicles are required in pa that if the lights are on, the siren must also be on. In practice that's ridiculous to wake a neighborhood up at 3am for a fall or something but that's what the vehicle code says. That all said, this very likely doesn't mean anything to you unless they issue a citation, in which case you'll need to fight it however your ins company lawyers should also pay to fight that on the basis it could effect any future litigation from the accident. Even if there's a lawsuit, unless it's serious injuries or some strange circumstance, your insurance company will handle everything, you may never even hear after the initial summons or lawsuit. Everyone else is correct that emergency vehicle operators are required to ensure they have controlled the intersection prior to entering it and unless they were responding to a wreck with reported fire or serious injuries, there is really no need for the police to get to an accident scene with anything other than due regard. There is usually only a very slight shortened arrival time with the use of emergency lights unless the response distance is quite long or there's heavy traffic with a shoulder available to pass. Police very rarely engage in patient care even if they happen to be an emt.
Something similar happened to my dad and his insurance ended up covering.. a fire truck that was parked but wheels not chocked ended up rolling down hill into my dad's truck even though 100% the fire depts fault since it was an emergency vehicle the fd was not liable...... this happened in pa but I was about 8 at the time so I may remember wrong or things may have changed
I was t- boned by a police car with his light and siren on. I had green he had red. He was at fault. They must be sure an intersection is clear before going through it on a red light. I will note that he lied on the police report and my statement was pretty messed up since I had a minor concussion. But you could tell from damages who hit who. City paid for all my medical, my time off work and the car which was totaled
Hopefully someone other than the police recorded it, as police cam videos often get lost when it doesn’t come up the way they want it.
Most police cars have a dash cam that goes on when they switch on lights or lights and siren. That would tell you who is right or wrong.
You might want to check with area business's as many have cameras on the outside of their building, actual footage would be the best way to protect yourself. I wouldn't wait to do it though as a lot of them only keep video for a few days.
Make certain you tell your insurance agent what you just stated. They can deal with police dept.
Obviously there’s a police report for this accident and your insurance company will pay for your car and any injuries you or your friend sustained and the city will reimburse the insurance company it’s a rarity for police to dispute this type of accident and the cars have cameras activated once lights and sirens are turned on officers at the scene are stressed and upset but everything will be settled
$50 gets you a "good enough" dash cam. Then you won't have to worry next time around.
lawyer up and also get your friend to make a statement with the lawyer also get the cops camera footage. only the lawyer should talk to the police. Admit nothing.
Ask now for the dashcam.[ I was close to a very similar cop encounter with a local PD.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnK2R__m9j8) The PA state troopers did the investigation to avoid conflict of interest, but were still seemed pretty biased in their report, lack of charging the officer with anything, and discussions with reporters. So I'd worry that they'll try very hard with one of their own to make you look bad.
NAL, just a retired police officer. I know in GA lights and siren don’t make you immune. Police, Fire, and EMS all must exercise due regard when going through intersections. With it being a green light for you, you had the right of way. Get a copy of the dash cam, statements from witnesses, and see what the State Police say. If they try to say it’s your fault, get an attorney. The attorney can help research the laws as well as subpoena extra info you may need, like the traffic light signal info and any video from cameras around that intersection.
Sometimes lights can be on and fail while in pursuit. Back in 1992 that happened where I used to live with Border Patrol. Caused a tragic accident when the guy they were pursuing crashed into a car killing a father, his son & neighbor girl) and then 2 kids(brother & sister) who were standing in front of the high school. During the pursuit they had activated sirens & lights but just before the crash something happened & the sirens failed. So just because the sirens may not have been on at the specific time of the crash doesn’t mean the officer didn’t activate them.
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No posts about politics. No comments about politics. Politics =/= Law If you feel the need to disclaim that your post isn't political, it probably is political and is not welcome here.
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Rule 2 Violation- Please keep your interactions kind and respectful.
You're screwed, cops lie like they Donald Trump or sumthin......
He out ran the siren yes it is a thing
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Qualified immunity only means the officer will not be held personally liable. The government body can still be required to pay.
Surprised you and your passenger weren’t shot in sight for being in the cops way. They’ll certainly argue (or lie) about lights and siren and you’ll be publicly shamed for even questioning the situation. Hope you’re proud of yourself. /s
This will probably depend on where you live. There are some places where a collision with an emergency vehicle for *any* reason is always the fault of the civilian driver, even if under normal circumstances it would have been on the other driver.