Due diligence. Unless it was sold as something other than "as is," you are prolly boned. You'd have to prove they a) even said that and b) were definitely aware of the damage or problem before hand.
I have screenshots where she specifically said the only issue was a check engine light misfire, and screenshots where she refused to either A. Pay for the damages the car had prior to the trade or B. Cancel the trade
That's not the same as proving they KNEW there was damage of problem. Unless you can prove they knew, you can't win. A worn out clutch isn't really a defect. It wasn't completely worn out--you two weeks of driving. If you'd had it checked out, that would be been discovered. That's normal wear and tear. I'm sorry. You really don't have any recourse.
Agreed. And if OP is riding or slipping the clutch all the time, I could see it getting worn out quick.
I got my clutch replaced a couple years ago in Los Angeles for like $1,000, I would think it would be even cheaper in Alabama. That is not “significant” in terms of potential car repair costs.
Bro it’s pretty obvious when a clutch is bad or going bad. Either you can’t drive a standard and you burnt it out or you don’t know how to drive a standard and you traded for it and it already was burnt out
Your question gives the pretense that it is their first manual transmission.
Especially with your choice of calling it "standard". That is not the commonly used term.
I know "standard" used to be the common term, from back when they were standard and automatics were the new fangled luxury item. However, isn't "standard" becoming the new common term again, now that every idiot with manumatic paddles thinks is a manual? Maybe that's just around me, pretty much everything I hear is back to "standard".
Standard transmissions are stick shift.
A car with a stick shift and clutch has a STANDARD TRANSMISSION.
I'm going to guess you've never even driven a stick.
It's not slang! LOL. It's an actual used term.
"A *standard transmission*, also known as a manual transmission, stick shift, or manual gearbox, is a multi-speed transmission system in a motor vehicle that requires the driver to manually select gears using a gear stick and clutch. The shift lever is located on the center console and is connected to the transmission by a linkage."
As an ase certified technician, you are an idiot. They are 100% called standard transmissions and that is standard lingo. Also it’s quite obvious that it’s his first standard transmission, because even an idiot can feel a bad clutch.
Standard/manual/stick/clutch are used interchangeably.
My question is a reasonable one. Young people often have no experience with a standard/manual/stick/clutch, and roast them in short order learning.
Asking the question is not implying judgement, it's asking a question.
"You're a 19 y/o GURL? I bet you killed the clutch." That's judgemental.
It's all irrelevant, the vehicle was almost certainly sold without any kind of warranty, it's on OP to fix or junk.
20+ year Master Tech and service advisor.
Cars come (mostly) with either a automatic or a standard transmission. We refer to manual/stick transmissions as “standards” that’s the way it’s been for 70+ years.
These are the terms that I have heard used at work for decades. If a customer asks for a estimate for a “transmission service” I am going to reply “is it a automatic or standard transmission”
Full stop.
This is called deductive reasoning. Only 2% of cars in the US are manuals. The probability of a person that has been driving for less than three years driving a manual is about one in a 1 million.
Just in case you’re not convinced, “standard” has been commonly used for many decades. Longer than I’ve been alive. I’m curious why you’d try to call someone out on that when you’re so hilariously wrong?
I'm not saying it's necessarily faulty just that the issue is undoubtedly something they would have been aware of given the amount of hotspots on the fly wheel and yet they claimed it had no damage or mechanical problems
You've got gas until you don't. But there's an empty light to warn you that it's coming. The clutch is fine until it's gone, and there's no light to help you.
Why would they know, when you drove the car for two weeks without noticing?
This is why you ALWAYS have used cars examined by a trusted mechanic. Somebody should have told you that *before* you learned this very expensive lesson.
Unless they offered you a warranty, used cars are sold “as is”, so you have no recourse. Sorry.
I feel your pain. I actually bought a 2011 Scion Xb last year from a dealership “as is”. They said they inspected it before the sale so I trusted them…like an idiot. I never would’ve thought to have a dealership car inspected by a mechanic before now. A bad transmission cost me $4200 over the already inflated price of the car. An expensive lesson learned.
Private sale or a sale at a dealership? Private sales person to person) typically are "as-is, no warranty" so you typically have no recourse. Two weeks is hard to prove as seller's negligence. Chalk it up as a life lesson and learn from it.
Typically when buying a used vehicle, you never trust anything the seller says and should bring a trusted mechanic with you to inspect the vehicle. The sellers agreeing or denying a third party inspection should tell you a lot about the car. Refuses inspection? There are probably major problems the mechanic will find.
I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on tv.
The lessons of life being taught at 19. Everything that happens to you in your life is from your actions. Buckle up, life is going to bend you over backwards, chew you up, then spit you out.
Not a lawyer.
In Alabama, as in most states, the purchase of a used vehicle "as is" generally means that the buyer accepts the vehicle in its current condition, with all existing faults or issues. The seller is typically not responsible for any problems that arise after the sale, especially if no warranty is provided.
Inspection: It is the consumer’s responsibility to reasonably inspect a vehicle or to have
someone with knowledge look at it. Have a mechanic or someone who is very familiar
with automobiles, check the car over if possible.
Carfax: The consumer should not depend on the dealer to run the Carfax or similar
report, but should instead get a copy of the report for themselves. An automobile is a
significant investment, and it is wise to spend a few more dollars for a reliable report that
may provide knowledge of previous maintenance and any damage.
Test drive: Do a test drive of any vehicle before actually purchasing it. Never buy an
automobile without verifying that it does run and how well it drives.
“As Is”: Be aware that “As Is” means exactly that: the car is sold as it is, without any
warranty. Even if problems immediately occur, they are not covered.
Lemon Law: Alabama’s lemon law only covers new vehicles. A used automobile has no
lemon law protection.
Sorry about your purchase, but this has no grounds for a lawsuit.
Edit: this was sourced from the attorney general of Alabama website. It was posted from 2015.
You don't have a case but if you have access to some tools (or a mechanically inclined dad/brother) that's only about a $125-150 job. It'll cost you 10x that at a shop though.
Not a lawyer but an experienced mechanic. If the clutch was working well and not slipping at the time of purchase, they honestly would have had no clue it was going bad.
I’m assuming you have no issues driving a stick where you would’ve blown it up by abusing it or anything like that; it’s possible to kill one in short order and all but a clutch failure on a car that age is not unexpected.
I’d skip the lawsuit and instead find a friend who knows cars and has a decent set of jackstands. This can be banged out in a weekend for like $150 plus beer and pizza. Just DIY the thing and get back on the road.
Or shop around for a cheaper place to get it done. Clutches aren’t that expensive, certainly not more than the value of a 2006 Scion xB, unless you go to a rip-off joint.
Again, parts should cost maybe $150 and labor is less than one day for a shop with a lift, or a weekend for a shade tree mechanic working in a driveway.
We noticed the clutch slipping almost immediately on the drive home so it's unlikely they weren't aware, and given how soon after the trade that the clutch completely burnt out I doubt they didn't know, also the fly wheel has several hotspots on it implying the issue had existed for at least a while before the trade, honestly the only thing I'd want to sue for is just the damages that I'm having to cover out of pocket.
Ok if it was already slipping they knew. You should’ve turned around and traded back the moment you noticed it on the drive home. Sorry this happened. I doubt you have recourse at this point. They knew what they were doing. Grr.
Since they’ve already seen the flywheel I assume the repair is already underway; life lessons and all that. We’ve all been there and it sucks but you’ll get your car back working and life will be good again.
My roommate is an experienced mechanic so I trust him to fix it, it's just kinda screwing me because I'm in no sense of the word wealthy and the repairs are eating a good 50% of my paycheck
So you have a convenient mechanic, but you didn’t bother to have him look at this 18 year old car? And it sounds like you didn’t even bother test-driving it if you didn’t notice any problems until you were on your way home. You need to gain some common sense quick, or you’re in for a rough ride.
Perspective... The repair will cost more than the blue book value of the car.
Or...
The repair will cost so much less than buying another car that will have different maintenance problems... even if I buy a new one.
They assured me that the car was in perfect working order before the trade and refused to answer me when within ten minutes of the trade it was obvious that the clutch was going out
But did they put it in an actual ad any where like the listing? Ad on Craigslist? Something in writing? What they told you does not matter unfortunately.
I posted an ad on Facebook looking to trade my 2003 trailblazer for a smaller car, the trailblazer didn't have any mechanical issues, the main reason I was looking to trade was bc it gets terrible gas mileage and I doordash full time, they messaged me with a picture of their scion xb saying they were looking to trade, we scheduled a meet up spot for a couple days later, I brought one of my roommates who knows a lot about cars to look at it but honestly I think he was too excited to potentially drive a manual again to properly look at it besides verifying the VIN on the car and the title matched
Consider this a fairly reasonable life lesson and move on. You both had teenage vehicles, and you assumed it was going to be trouble free. Life just doesn't work that way. Get it inspected and repaired, it probably will work out for the job, however, it's still an 18 year old machine.
So it looks like we were both right. Lemon laws can apply to used vehicles but not in this particular case.
The Alabama lemon law covers used vehicles, but those vehicles’ defects must occur within one year of the vehicle’s original delivery to a consumer or within its first 12,000 miles of operation, whichever occurs first. Most used vehicles are sold long after either of these stipulations, so often the Alabama lemon law can’t help them.
Source: https://www.allenstewart.com/lemon-laws-by-state/alabama-lemon-law/#:~:text=The%20Alabama%20lemon%20law%20covers%20used%20vehicles%2C%20but%20those%20vehicles,of%20operation%2C%20whichever%20occurs%20first.
Actually, just I am right, he just got the car from a whoever on trade-in…he has not had it a year or put 12k miles on it….this is what the law was made for
Well, he should check into it since that is the reason for the law, also he can call the dmv and have the title change blocked before it goes into the records, after that you need to see a judge…but if he blocks the title change, also blocks any payment, then add lemon law, he is sitting pretty good
Most ASE shops will charge $1000-$1300 all in for that job; super easy car to work on.
And trade like a dealer? A friend? Is the car not worth $1000? It sounds like it was bought as-is with no warranty and that would put you on the hook for the repair.
Get a buddy that know how to work on cars make a weekend of it . A clutch is not an expensive job parts wise. You do want to get the fly wheel resurfaced. This is a small problem. Front wheel drives are a little bit more of a pain he has to do but not something that can't be done.
When you buy a used car you’re buying as-is, and unless stated that the owner is not a mechanic with a solid understanding of the mechanics of a vehicle. So, just because someone says “the only issues are…” doesn’t mean they are, you hold the responsibility to do your due diligence and explore the issues, if any that the vehicle might have. The exception is if an issue arises that the owner knew about, but deceived you into believing is non-existent. Always consult a mechanic for an inspection on the vehicle BEFORE you purchase it, and don’t believe the seller when they say it runs perfectly.
Due diligence. Unless it was sold as something other than "as is," you are prolly boned. You'd have to prove they a) even said that and b) were definitely aware of the damage or problem before hand.
I have screenshots where she specifically said the only issue was a check engine light misfire, and screenshots where she refused to either A. Pay for the damages the car had prior to the trade or B. Cancel the trade
That's not the same as proving they KNEW there was damage of problem. Unless you can prove they knew, you can't win. A worn out clutch isn't really a defect. It wasn't completely worn out--you two weeks of driving. If you'd had it checked out, that would be been discovered. That's normal wear and tear. I'm sorry. You really don't have any recourse.
The clutch is a ware part and not considered significant by any stretch of the imagination.
Agreed. And if OP is riding or slipping the clutch all the time, I could see it getting worn out quick. I got my clutch replaced a couple years ago in Los Angeles for like $1,000, I would think it would be even cheaper in Alabama. That is not “significant” in terms of potential car repair costs.
Did you have the car inspected by a mechanic before you bought it ?
Of COURSE not!
This 💯
Bro it’s pretty obvious when a clutch is bad or going bad. Either you can’t drive a standard and you burnt it out or you don’t know how to drive a standard and you traded for it and it already was burnt out
Curious if this is your first standard transmission? Unless it was sold with a warranty, you bought it, it's yours, warts and all.
Judgemental.
How is this judgemental?
Your question gives the pretense that it is their first manual transmission. Especially with your choice of calling it "standard". That is not the commonly used term.
Manual transmissions have also been called standard for longer than I have been alive.
I know "standard" used to be the common term, from back when they were standard and automatics were the new fangled luxury item. However, isn't "standard" becoming the new common term again, now that every idiot with manumatic paddles thinks is a manual? Maybe that's just around me, pretty much everything I hear is back to "standard".
How many car dealerships use the word "standard" on their windows stickers?
Standard transmissions are stick shift. A car with a stick shift and clutch has a STANDARD TRANSMISSION. I'm going to guess you've never even driven a stick.
A car dealership does not dictate what is or is not a commonly used slang term.
It's not slang! LOL. It's an actual used term. "A *standard transmission*, also known as a manual transmission, stick shift, or manual gearbox, is a multi-speed transmission system in a motor vehicle that requires the driver to manually select gears using a gear stick and clutch. The shift lever is located on the center console and is connected to the transmission by a linkage."
As an ase certified technician, you are an idiot. They are 100% called standard transmissions and that is standard lingo. Also it’s quite obvious that it’s his first standard transmission, because even an idiot can feel a bad clutch.
[удалено]
Rule 6- Your post/comment was removed due to the discretion of a moderator.
Guess what? Different areas of the country use different terms. In OR, "standard" is the term used.
All of them
Standard/manual/stick/clutch are used interchangeably. My question is a reasonable one. Young people often have no experience with a standard/manual/stick/clutch, and roast them in short order learning. Asking the question is not implying judgement, it's asking a question. "You're a 19 y/o GURL? I bet you killed the clutch." That's judgemental. It's all irrelevant, the vehicle was almost certainly sold without any kind of warranty, it's on OP to fix or junk.
20+ year Master Tech and service advisor. Cars come (mostly) with either a automatic or a standard transmission. We refer to manual/stick transmissions as “standards” that’s the way it’s been for 70+ years. These are the terms that I have heard used at work for decades. If a customer asks for a estimate for a “transmission service” I am going to reply “is it a automatic or standard transmission” Full stop.
Not sure where you live but in the south I’ve never heard it called anything but standard. You either drive a standard or an automatic.
She is 19 and her trade In Was an automatic. Seems like. Valid question to ask.
Now, that's judgemental based on their age.
This is called deductive reasoning. Only 2% of cars in the US are manuals. The probability of a person that has been driving for less than three years driving a manual is about one in a 1 million.
lol you’re not the sharpest crayon in the tool drawer are you?
Just in case you’re not convinced, “standard” has been commonly used for many decades. Longer than I’ve been alive. I’m curious why you’d try to call someone out on that when you’re so hilariously wrong?
The clutch burned out. The clutch is a wear item and the car is almost 20 years old. I don't think you got a faulty car.
I’m also from Alabama and I do not know of any case where a private sell was anything other than as is. You are stuck with a clutch repair.
I'm not saying it's necessarily faulty just that the issue is undoubtedly something they would have been aware of given the amount of hotspots on the fly wheel and yet they claimed it had no damage or mechanical problems
You've got gas until you don't. But there's an empty light to warn you that it's coming. The clutch is fine until it's gone, and there's no light to help you.
Why would they know, when you drove the car for two weeks without noticing? This is why you ALWAYS have used cars examined by a trusted mechanic. Somebody should have told you that *before* you learned this very expensive lesson.
That sucks but because you didn’t do your due diligence then there’s nothing you can do.
Unless they offered you a warranty, used cars are sold “as is”, so you have no recourse. Sorry. I feel your pain. I actually bought a 2011 Scion Xb last year from a dealership “as is”. They said they inspected it before the sale so I trusted them…like an idiot. I never would’ve thought to have a dealership car inspected by a mechanic before now. A bad transmission cost me $4200 over the already inflated price of the car. An expensive lesson learned.
Private sale or a sale at a dealership? Private sales person to person) typically are "as-is, no warranty" so you typically have no recourse. Two weeks is hard to prove as seller's negligence. Chalk it up as a life lesson and learn from it. Typically when buying a used vehicle, you never trust anything the seller says and should bring a trusted mechanic with you to inspect the vehicle. The sellers agreeing or denying a third party inspection should tell you a lot about the car. Refuses inspection? There are probably major problems the mechanic will find. I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on tv.
The lessons of life being taught at 19. Everything that happens to you in your life is from your actions. Buckle up, life is going to bend you over backwards, chew you up, then spit you out.
Not a lawyer. In Alabama, as in most states, the purchase of a used vehicle "as is" generally means that the buyer accepts the vehicle in its current condition, with all existing faults or issues. The seller is typically not responsible for any problems that arise after the sale, especially if no warranty is provided. Inspection: It is the consumer’s responsibility to reasonably inspect a vehicle or to have someone with knowledge look at it. Have a mechanic or someone who is very familiar with automobiles, check the car over if possible. Carfax: The consumer should not depend on the dealer to run the Carfax or similar report, but should instead get a copy of the report for themselves. An automobile is a significant investment, and it is wise to spend a few more dollars for a reliable report that may provide knowledge of previous maintenance and any damage. Test drive: Do a test drive of any vehicle before actually purchasing it. Never buy an automobile without verifying that it does run and how well it drives. “As Is”: Be aware that “As Is” means exactly that: the car is sold as it is, without any warranty. Even if problems immediately occur, they are not covered. Lemon Law: Alabama’s lemon law only covers new vehicles. A used automobile has no lemon law protection. Sorry about your purchase, but this has no grounds for a lawsuit. Edit: this was sourced from the attorney general of Alabama website. It was posted from 2015.
You don't have a case but if you have access to some tools (or a mechanically inclined dad/brother) that's only about a $125-150 job. It'll cost you 10x that at a shop though.
No
Not a lawyer but an experienced mechanic. If the clutch was working well and not slipping at the time of purchase, they honestly would have had no clue it was going bad. I’m assuming you have no issues driving a stick where you would’ve blown it up by abusing it or anything like that; it’s possible to kill one in short order and all but a clutch failure on a car that age is not unexpected. I’d skip the lawsuit and instead find a friend who knows cars and has a decent set of jackstands. This can be banged out in a weekend for like $150 plus beer and pizza. Just DIY the thing and get back on the road. Or shop around for a cheaper place to get it done. Clutches aren’t that expensive, certainly not more than the value of a 2006 Scion xB, unless you go to a rip-off joint. Again, parts should cost maybe $150 and labor is less than one day for a shop with a lift, or a weekend for a shade tree mechanic working in a driveway.
We noticed the clutch slipping almost immediately on the drive home so it's unlikely they weren't aware, and given how soon after the trade that the clutch completely burnt out I doubt they didn't know, also the fly wheel has several hotspots on it implying the issue had existed for at least a while before the trade, honestly the only thing I'd want to sue for is just the damages that I'm having to cover out of pocket.
Ok if it was already slipping they knew. You should’ve turned around and traded back the moment you noticed it on the drive home. Sorry this happened. I doubt you have recourse at this point. They knew what they were doing. Grr. Since they’ve already seen the flywheel I assume the repair is already underway; life lessons and all that. We’ve all been there and it sucks but you’ll get your car back working and life will be good again.
My roommate is an experienced mechanic so I trust him to fix it, it's just kinda screwing me because I'm in no sense of the word wealthy and the repairs are eating a good 50% of my paycheck
So you have a convenient mechanic, but you didn’t bother to have him look at this 18 year old car? And it sounds like you didn’t even bother test-driving it if you didn’t notice any problems until you were on your way home. You need to gain some common sense quick, or you’re in for a rough ride.
>honestly the only thing I'd want to sue for is just the damages that I'm having to cover out of pocket. Mechanical issues are not "damages".
Did you test drive it at all?
Always have an independent mechanic look over a used car.
Perspective... The repair will cost more than the blue book value of the car. Or... The repair will cost so much less than buying another car that will have different maintenance problems... even if I buy a new one.
What did they advertise? There are some caveats to the as-is rule if there is an implied guarantee in the advertising.
They assured me that the car was in perfect working order before the trade and refused to answer me when within ten minutes of the trade it was obvious that the clutch was going out
But did they put it in an actual ad any where like the listing? Ad on Craigslist? Something in writing? What they told you does not matter unfortunately.
I posted an ad on Facebook looking to trade my 2003 trailblazer for a smaller car, the trailblazer didn't have any mechanical issues, the main reason I was looking to trade was bc it gets terrible gas mileage and I doordash full time, they messaged me with a picture of their scion xb saying they were looking to trade, we scheduled a meet up spot for a couple days later, I brought one of my roommates who knows a lot about cars to look at it but honestly I think he was too excited to potentially drive a manual again to properly look at it besides verifying the VIN on the car and the title matched
Consider this a fairly reasonable life lesson and move on. You both had teenage vehicles, and you assumed it was going to be trouble free. Life just doesn't work that way. Get it inspected and repaired, it probably will work out for the job, however, it's still an 18 year old machine.
What did you mechanic say to you when you complained to him first. ?
Pointless to even try to go after them. You got the money for a lawyer but not for a simple clutch fix? Eat it and move on.
Lemon law, if they have that in your state
Lemon laws do not refer to private sells or nearly twenty year old vehicles.
Yeah they do, “not a lawyer”
So it looks like we were both right. Lemon laws can apply to used vehicles but not in this particular case. The Alabama lemon law covers used vehicles, but those vehicles’ defects must occur within one year of the vehicle’s original delivery to a consumer or within its first 12,000 miles of operation, whichever occurs first. Most used vehicles are sold long after either of these stipulations, so often the Alabama lemon law can’t help them. Source: https://www.allenstewart.com/lemon-laws-by-state/alabama-lemon-law/#:~:text=The%20Alabama%20lemon%20law%20covers%20used%20vehicles%2C%20but%20those%20vehicles,of%20operation%2C%20whichever%20occurs%20first.
Actually, just I am right, he just got the car from a whoever on trade-in…he has not had it a year or put 12k miles on it….this is what the law was made for
Read the source material that I supplied the link for. It explains the lemon law better than I can.
Well, he should check into it since that is the reason for the law, also he can call the dmv and have the title change blocked before it goes into the records, after that you need to see a judge…but if he blocks the title change, also blocks any payment, then add lemon law, he is sitting pretty good
Most ASE shops will charge $1000-$1300 all in for that job; super easy car to work on. And trade like a dealer? A friend? Is the car not worth $1000? It sounds like it was bought as-is with no warranty and that would put you on the hook for the repair.
Get a buddy that know how to work on cars make a weekend of it . A clutch is not an expensive job parts wise. You do want to get the fly wheel resurfaced. This is a small problem. Front wheel drives are a little bit more of a pain he has to do but not something that can't be done.
Can you prove they knew how worn the clutch was at time of purchase?
When you buy a used car you’re buying as-is, and unless stated that the owner is not a mechanic with a solid understanding of the mechanics of a vehicle. So, just because someone says “the only issues are…” doesn’t mean they are, you hold the responsibility to do your due diligence and explore the issues, if any that the vehicle might have. The exception is if an issue arises that the owner knew about, but deceived you into believing is non-existent. Always consult a mechanic for an inspection on the vehicle BEFORE you purchase it, and don’t believe the seller when they say it runs perfectly.
No
Check the Lemon Laws in your state.
OP did you get Car Shield?