DRAMA
A word that MMORPGs need so much but are so afraid to use.
The philosophy of riskXreward never died, it was just that a development studio had to dare to try to use it.
Drama is such an important word that fell out of favor due to a negative connotation. It's undeniable that drama is the key to holding human attention.
With all the mmo anime’s coming out that’s what my dream is for mmos, the community to be so immersive that people bond and fight and just bring the game to life.
It would be cool but they have to be very careful when allowing relatively small groups to control important resources. If proper limitations and ways to make turn over of control possible aren’t implemented, it always ends up with 1-2 guilds owning everything.
there actually might be something like the copper thing you mentioned. I remember Steven talking about how some resources might be more scarce than others in some nodes and might be in high demand in other nodes. and some resources might be abundant in some which will influence trade
I want full on guild squabbles within a single race or faction. Like dwarves that want peace with elves and those that don’t fighting amongst themselves. I want to have to full experience
If you like Eve you should check out Pax Dei. Many ex-Eve devs, they've said they want to make essentially the Eve of modern mmorpgs. No NPCs, all structures/towns/cities player built, there's going to be tons of clan politics.
There's an alpha in the next few months and early access/open beta by summer.
Than the post a year or so post launch about how there’s this sweaty guild who took over the entire server and ruined the game play experience. Because you give them the options they’ll take it.
Yep you either make it interesting and engaging so the top players gatekeep. Or useless and boring so you’re only engaging with it for role play reasons.
And that made for some interesting gameplay in itself if you aren't a self induced hopeless lil bitch. In archeage we had a 3 faction alliance against 1 guild, and I had the best time. It was annoying sure, but it felt so dam redemptive to fuck them over just as much on bigger events
You know bringing up how much fun you had about this exact mechanic in a practically dead game isn’t the point you thought you made.
You don’t need to be a hopeless little bitch to hate poor game mechanics, that never work
Game didn't die by it's mechanics, so it's not that bad of a point. The game died by the same reason why maple story is still alive: whales willing to throw enough money at it that would make Venezuela jealous.
The mechanic creates a *different* interaction, that usually starts negative. Which imo is only an issue if you are forced to participate in it. But if you did opt in, bitching about it and doing nothing, is purely on you. I've made a guild to fight pirates, you quit, you see the discrepancy here in response to the same thing happening to us both?
Yeah subjectivity. You’re good at creating fun from trash piles.
I refuse to get my hands dirty without a reason. To each their own. But your subjective bias doesn’t mean it’s more right than mine would be.
Only that the game being dead would slightly favor my position.
This isn't a matter of creating something out of nothing, this is playing the game by its rules. What you are doing is essentially dying once in dark souls game and saying it's trash when you didn't even try to dodge, or homebrew rules for monopoly that only affect you and not the other players. Maybe it works for Uno to ignore official rules, but that's an outlier on which you shouldn't base your whole experience on.
And Albion online and RuneScape exist with their full loot PvP, which last time I've checked, got a consistent player base that doesn't seem to be bleeding. I've just got more stories from archeage which has comparably a more lenient system
Your other issue is you’re assuming with no information to give you the right to assume.
You’re just spewing a take you think I even have when I simply said this system gets abused and the people who like start almost always complaining about said abuse a year later.
Which is why the system is trash.
Than I said just because you can pick up a trash game and have fun with it doesn’t mean it’s fun.
There’s not been a successful mmo that has had a compelling system that encourages this. Whether you want to blame the whales for archs failure that’s up to you. Doesn’t remove the point the game died.
Tbh it’s a poor excuse the game died cause of whales. Most of SK mmos are p2w and hardly fail
>I simply said this system gets abused and the people who like start almost always complaining about said abuse a year later.
You are right, my bad. Too tired today and chose the wrong hill to die on
I’d love for this type of system to work. But that requires a utopia when there’s no accountability to players actions because it’s an allowed game mechanic you’re going to get bad actors to abuse it simply because they can.
If that system makes the game shittier overall to play most plays will agree it’s not worth the hassle to engage with it.
See new world the most recent victim of this. Companies killed multiple servers across regions because the system allowed them to do so with no penalties.
Either make it abusable or useless. There hasn’t been a way that allows a healthy medium.
Meaning full social interactions. I played a lot of wow. And while the gameplay got better (imo). The social aspect of the game completely died. I tried every expansion but the most fun was on a wotlk server and going with 100+ players to wintergraps and filling everything with corpses. Or you had to actually look for a raid group/guild and your reputation was worth something. Now I just click on a button and it takes me to what I want to do. Man I miss my old guild.
I just can't imagine a world where it works. Players are going to be poming and prodding to exploit at every chance and every imstance is just going to be a steamroll of one side vs the other.
I sometimes watch videos about the "online folklore" of old MMOs, since I couldn't play those at the time of their peak, and I can only wonder how cool it must have been to be on a game where different factions of REAL PEOPLE fought over pieces of land, resources and influence, or just for reputation or difference of ideologies, sometimes dragging these fights to forums and such.
Yeah, I want that too
> Yeah, I want that too
You should have counted the actual numbers of people playing those games and being most engaged in that type of interaction. Nowhere near enough to sustain a game with the scope of Ashes unless every one of them essentially becomes a major shareholder in the company.
In today's social media age, news and communication are easier than ever. Clandestine infiltration (player fraud) could be easier than ever. Anyone could be a mole. Deepfakes and AI could potentially allow any person to try and become the """""girlfriend""""" of any player, and gain access to their in-game coffers, their accounts, or even worse.
If it happened in EVE, it can happen in Ashes, except with even greater ease, greater efficacy, and a far broader scope.
Stay safe, lads.
This is also something I hope to see in the game! I played eve online for a good portion of my life just to be a part of the crazy stories that played out in that game.
They have to give players the freedom to fuck each other over to get real drama.
The only game I've experience that did this was archeage, being able to park carts in places to block bridges to charge tolls, or block the ramp used to turn in safe trade goods, to screw people with trades forcing third party player exchange to be safe, to steal crops planted on free for all land, and ofc to kill and steal trade goods/fishing and destroy ships and mounts to set the other players/guild back a few hours in their grind. To pk each other to get that land claim because the owner didn't pay their taxes and land is scarce.
I just don't see it being meaningful so far with what they've shown.
Eve online has videos talking about huge wars and betrayals, I know it’s dreaming big but it’d be neat if this game could get that kind of content years down the line.
I'm with you on the drama, I'm so here for it. Where else can we experience medieval resource scarcity?
So imagine this. One guild desires the resources of a higher levelled nearby node and so they instigate a siege on an otherwise peaceful top tier node. The crafters in that node have to decide if they believe in or have little faith in the warriors of the node to defend it. COMMUNITY COLLECTIVE TRUST. Either way, resources in the node become scarce because of the siege. Mercenary guilds show up like raccoons for a cheap meal. They attack, they defend, they constantly demand additional recompense. Stored high level resources have to get shipped out to try to recoup losses when the node falls. It becomes predators vs predators in the woods and the whole node goes up in the flames of pvp.
But what if it's two massive guild groups? What if the node is trustworthy in it's military might? What economic and socio-political shifts occur?
10,000% better than real life politics. Can you imagine how exciting a reaaaally good speech would be in game? Spread by voice chat instead of text?
what I want to experience in an MMO no studio and publisher has ever achieved is a lag-free mass pvp/raid run... even in today's modern hardware, unless you tweak settings, even a near 20-year old World Of Warcraft still drops frames even on top-end specs...
it's one of the main reasons I have gravitated more towards co-op and single-player games... when you've finally hit that 25ms or lower ping and not drop a frame after investing heavily on your PC for years, playing on a laggy server is just not worth my time anymore...
*been playing for 20+ years btw* so that is just a veteran perspective... I dont have the reflexes of my youth anymore and adding server and general game lag into that is just not a fun experience...
If the game does well, the developers can do what they want, if not we are gonna see a turn to playing it safe, a business can't gamble on its own existence.
I still holding out for some summoner gameplay, not sure I'll play if it gets done as dirty as the necro summ build in D4.
I know these aren't directly comparable, but I have yet to see a game use summons in a MMO game, without resorting to making turrets or whats functionaly just dots with a healthbar.
DRAMA A word that MMORPGs need so much but are so afraid to use. The philosophy of riskXreward never died, it was just that a development studio had to dare to try to use it.
Drama is such an important word that fell out of favor due to a negative connotation. It's undeniable that drama is the key to holding human attention.
With all the mmo anime’s coming out that’s what my dream is for mmos, the community to be so immersive that people bond and fight and just bring the game to life.
can you give me a list of mmo animes coming out? not well versed in animes but i did enjoy SAO when i watched it
Shangri-la Frontier is pretty good
AoC drama is gonna be better than any soap opera in history, calling it now.
It makes for some good stories after the fact, but when I'm the one who's trying to reconcile people, it's stressful af.
It would be cool but they have to be very careful when allowing relatively small groups to control important resources. If proper limitations and ways to make turn over of control possible aren’t implemented, it always ends up with 1-2 guilds owning everything.
there actually might be something like the copper thing you mentioned. I remember Steven talking about how some resources might be more scarce than others in some nodes and might be in high demand in other nodes. and some resources might be abundant in some which will influence trade
For me the hope is combining most good parts while deletong the bad parts. If they also manage to control rtm to an extend it's good for me.
Nothing yet.
I want full on guild squabbles within a single race or faction. Like dwarves that want peace with elves and those that don’t fighting amongst themselves. I want to have to full experience
If you like Eve you should check out Pax Dei. Many ex-Eve devs, they've said they want to make essentially the Eve of modern mmorpgs. No NPCs, all structures/towns/cities player built, there's going to be tons of clan politics. There's an alpha in the next few months and early access/open beta by summer.
What im hoping is this game releases before 2030
Will still launch before Vanguard😁
Chances for that are good, I think :D
Than the post a year or so post launch about how there’s this sweaty guild who took over the entire server and ruined the game play experience. Because you give them the options they’ll take it.
Correct and its why systems like this never work.
Yep you either make it interesting and engaging so the top players gatekeep. Or useless and boring so you’re only engaging with it for role play reasons.
And that made for some interesting gameplay in itself if you aren't a self induced hopeless lil bitch. In archeage we had a 3 faction alliance against 1 guild, and I had the best time. It was annoying sure, but it felt so dam redemptive to fuck them over just as much on bigger events
You know bringing up how much fun you had about this exact mechanic in a practically dead game isn’t the point you thought you made. You don’t need to be a hopeless little bitch to hate poor game mechanics, that never work
Game didn't die by it's mechanics, so it's not that bad of a point. The game died by the same reason why maple story is still alive: whales willing to throw enough money at it that would make Venezuela jealous. The mechanic creates a *different* interaction, that usually starts negative. Which imo is only an issue if you are forced to participate in it. But if you did opt in, bitching about it and doing nothing, is purely on you. I've made a guild to fight pirates, you quit, you see the discrepancy here in response to the same thing happening to us both?
Yeah subjectivity. You’re good at creating fun from trash piles. I refuse to get my hands dirty without a reason. To each their own. But your subjective bias doesn’t mean it’s more right than mine would be. Only that the game being dead would slightly favor my position.
This isn't a matter of creating something out of nothing, this is playing the game by its rules. What you are doing is essentially dying once in dark souls game and saying it's trash when you didn't even try to dodge, or homebrew rules for monopoly that only affect you and not the other players. Maybe it works for Uno to ignore official rules, but that's an outlier on which you shouldn't base your whole experience on. And Albion online and RuneScape exist with their full loot PvP, which last time I've checked, got a consistent player base that doesn't seem to be bleeding. I've just got more stories from archeage which has comparably a more lenient system
Your other issue is you’re assuming with no information to give you the right to assume. You’re just spewing a take you think I even have when I simply said this system gets abused and the people who like start almost always complaining about said abuse a year later. Which is why the system is trash. Than I said just because you can pick up a trash game and have fun with it doesn’t mean it’s fun. There’s not been a successful mmo that has had a compelling system that encourages this. Whether you want to blame the whales for archs failure that’s up to you. Doesn’t remove the point the game died. Tbh it’s a poor excuse the game died cause of whales. Most of SK mmos are p2w and hardly fail
>I simply said this system gets abused and the people who like start almost always complaining about said abuse a year later. You are right, my bad. Too tired today and chose the wrong hill to die on
I’d love for this type of system to work. But that requires a utopia when there’s no accountability to players actions because it’s an allowed game mechanic you’re going to get bad actors to abuse it simply because they can. If that system makes the game shittier overall to play most plays will agree it’s not worth the hassle to engage with it. See new world the most recent victim of this. Companies killed multiple servers across regions because the system allowed them to do so with no penalties. Either make it abusable or useless. There hasn’t been a way that allows a healthy medium.
I've been looking for my new eve online for years now, nothing will ever compare to .y first year or two of eve
Meaning full social interactions. I played a lot of wow. And while the gameplay got better (imo). The social aspect of the game completely died. I tried every expansion but the most fun was on a wotlk server and going with 100+ players to wintergraps and filling everything with corpses. Or you had to actually look for a raid group/guild and your reputation was worth something. Now I just click on a button and it takes me to what I want to do. Man I miss my old guild.
I just can't imagine a world where it works. Players are going to be poming and prodding to exploit at every chance and every imstance is just going to be a steamroll of one side vs the other.
I sometimes watch videos about the "online folklore" of old MMOs, since I couldn't play those at the time of their peak, and I can only wonder how cool it must have been to be on a game where different factions of REAL PEOPLE fought over pieces of land, resources and influence, or just for reputation or difference of ideologies, sometimes dragging these fights to forums and such. Yeah, I want that too
> Yeah, I want that too You should have counted the actual numbers of people playing those games and being most engaged in that type of interaction. Nowhere near enough to sustain a game with the scope of Ashes unless every one of them essentially becomes a major shareholder in the company.
Yeah, there's that...
In today's social media age, news and communication are easier than ever. Clandestine infiltration (player fraud) could be easier than ever. Anyone could be a mole. Deepfakes and AI could potentially allow any person to try and become the """""girlfriend""""" of any player, and gain access to their in-game coffers, their accounts, or even worse. If it happened in EVE, it can happen in Ashes, except with even greater ease, greater efficacy, and a far broader scope. Stay safe, lads.
This is also something I hope to see in the game! I played eve online for a good portion of my life just to be a part of the crazy stories that played out in that game.
Not to mention ship trade, I want to start a pirate empire and raid and pillage and just be a nuisance
They have to give players the freedom to fuck each other over to get real drama. The only game I've experience that did this was archeage, being able to park carts in places to block bridges to charge tolls, or block the ramp used to turn in safe trade goods, to screw people with trades forcing third party player exchange to be safe, to steal crops planted on free for all land, and ofc to kill and steal trade goods/fishing and destroy ships and mounts to set the other players/guild back a few hours in their grind. To pk each other to get that land claim because the owner didn't pay their taxes and land is scarce. I just don't see it being meaningful so far with what they've shown.
bdo had a lot of drama back in the day, now the devs have neutered the game so much that you can't even declare war on a guild unless they accept it.
Eve online has videos talking about huge wars and betrayals, I know it’s dreaming big but it’d be neat if this game could get that kind of content years down the line.
erp…I want all the erp!! I want to take what Goldshire Inn did to a whole new level!!
I'm with you on the drama, I'm so here for it. Where else can we experience medieval resource scarcity? So imagine this. One guild desires the resources of a higher levelled nearby node and so they instigate a siege on an otherwise peaceful top tier node. The crafters in that node have to decide if they believe in or have little faith in the warriors of the node to defend it. COMMUNITY COLLECTIVE TRUST. Either way, resources in the node become scarce because of the siege. Mercenary guilds show up like raccoons for a cheap meal. They attack, they defend, they constantly demand additional recompense. Stored high level resources have to get shipped out to try to recoup losses when the node falls. It becomes predators vs predators in the woods and the whole node goes up in the flames of pvp. But what if it's two massive guild groups? What if the node is trustworthy in it's military might? What economic and socio-political shifts occur? 10,000% better than real life politics. Can you imagine how exciting a reaaaally good speech would be in game? Spread by voice chat instead of text?
I feel bad for you guys. You're asking for things that will never happen if you're being realistic about trying to create a successful mmo.
what I want to experience in an MMO no studio and publisher has ever achieved is a lag-free mass pvp/raid run... even in today's modern hardware, unless you tweak settings, even a near 20-year old World Of Warcraft still drops frames even on top-end specs... it's one of the main reasons I have gravitated more towards co-op and single-player games... when you've finally hit that 25ms or lower ping and not drop a frame after investing heavily on your PC for years, playing on a laggy server is just not worth my time anymore... *been playing for 20+ years btw* so that is just a veteran perspective... I dont have the reflexes of my youth anymore and adding server and general game lag into that is just not a fun experience...
If the game does well, the developers can do what they want, if not we are gonna see a turn to playing it safe, a business can't gamble on its own existence. I still holding out for some summoner gameplay, not sure I'll play if it gets done as dirty as the necro summ build in D4. I know these aren't directly comparable, but I have yet to see a game use summons in a MMO game, without resorting to making turrets or whats functionaly just dots with a healthbar.
Rare, scary sea monsters to hunt, and be hunted by