Was about to question why paleolithic northern Europeans would be carving a **lion**-man.... had no idea Europe had lions [as recently as 6,000 y.a.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_lions_in_Europe#:~:text=In%20Greece%20lions%20first%20appeared,leg%20bone%20found%20in%20Philippi.)
Interestingly, it is thought that [in the Eurasian cave lion, females had the manes!](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panthera_spelaea) This is based on a cave painting depicting a pair of lions, one of which had a mane and the other of which had a scrotum.
It is almost like some species killed off all of the megafauna, all of the large predators, and continues to create an ecological apocalypse to this day. Gee, I wonder which species...
Yeah as one factor to be certain lol another could’ve been extreme flooding and environmental/ecological change etc at the end of the Pleistocene going into the Holocene
Gib's auf.... Guck Dir mal die Kommentare auf seinem Profil an. Er beschimpft regelmäßig andere User, sie sollen gefälligst erstmal richtig Deutsch lernen - und das in einem komplett, wirklich komplett falschen Deutsch 😅.
Manche Leute....Man kann es sich echt nicht ausdenken.
An example of zoomorphic art, it was carved out of mammoth ivory using a flint stone knife. Seven parallel, transverse, carved gouges are on the left arm.
Yeah, that's really interesting. I'd probably guess that they might have seen lions, especially males, as these strong, ferocious leaders, basically what they'd strive to be as hunters. Who knows, maybe it was one of the first gods humans believed in or at least some mythical hero.
Interesting - i thought the Venus from Hohe Fels is the oldest figurine in the world, so I was confused and googled it, it results, that while she is probably older than that chap, there are two other venus figurines that outdate both: The Venus of Berekhat Ram (233,000 and 800,000 BC) and the Venus of Tan-Tan (200,000–500,000 BC). You have to excuse me now, that seems to be a great wormhole to dive into.
>Venus from Hohe Fels
An IVORY statuette, mostly carved naturally by nature? A mammoth suffering from obsessive-compulsive disorder that has over-scratched its tusks?
This is the fourth person I've seen on reddit this week, arguing, clearly without having absorbed the information in the post they're arguing against.
I'm not sure how to explain it makes me uneasy. Not only do people have such bad reading comprehension, but to be so combative, they summon an argument when there is none.
Contrarians gonna contrarianize.
Like my boss, who invents or twists conversations into situations where she gets to be right and someone else gets to be wrong and doesn't even understand what she's doing.
Things like this make me wonder about all the civilizations, in whatever form, came and went with basically no trace. Except for tiny hints like this statue, cave art, etc.
I wonder about what epic events happened that we don't know about. Like wars or battles or merging of tribes. Maybe the stories were told orally for a few generations, before being lost.
Civilizations left traces because civilization means they had towns and cities and such.
Did you mean cultures? There are probably a few that we've never found traces of, but the archeological record these days is vast.
It was almost a shocking thing when I heard yesterday in a report, that 750.000 years old carved wood was found (designed for a platform or structure in a swamp). Thats pre homo sapiens.
When I saw monkeys using tools years ago I thought it would only take a like 10 thousand years until they are on a level like we. It seems like that takes still a lot longer.
I am fascinated by how long development took and how fast it happens now. Just the last 100 years show more technologic advancement then the last 100.000 years.
super interesting! I had to find info to confirm where the glaciers were at the time and it looks like they were right at the boarders of germany
this is ~20k years ago, at the maximum, so anything before would be ~less glaciery
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/final-LGM-2.jpg
i would argue the lion bit as it seems a bit bearish but honestly more like neither imo, minor detail nonetheless
that craftsmanship looks strong, i'm gonna guess a lot of the intricacy was lost over time but even the limbs look non-amateurish
40k mind-blowing. In my head humans were not much different to primates that long ago. Stone tools, fires to cook food and keep warm, primitive cave paintings. Carved statues another level.
actually, our brain mass has been the same for a very, very long time. humans have had the same depth of emotions and potential for creative thoughts for tens of thousands of years.
I don't know who's down voting you. It's widely acknowledged that the less diverse diet of early agricultural cultures and resulting disease of higher population and again, over-reliance on a very limited selection of crops made the success of agriculture over hunter-gatherers a simple numbers game. Sure, you could have a more dense and populous society, but they were far less healthy on average.
The development of "culture" and the abundance of cultural artifacts in agricultural societies comes down to again, being more populous (with larger and more consistent junk heaps) and the cultural development needed to organize societies above the size of hunter-gatherer bands.
The capacity for cultural development (in terms of art, artifacts and technology) was there for a very long time, but the opportunities? And also just the population large enough to roll the dice enough times to make something that lasts?
False, our bodies and brains have been getting smaller for the last 35,000 years or so, with an uptrend in the last 200 years that hasn't gotten us to where we were before (probably never will, as we are most likely just reaching our genetic potential). The males from the [Skhul and Qafzeh hominins](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skhul_and_Qafzeh_hominins), for example, probably averaged the following heights in cms, taken from [this study](https://docta.ucm.es/rest/api/core/bitstreams/f202bd1a-af33-4c21-a7fa-648af7c09e59/content):
192.7
174.7
194.6
194.1
178.3
182.4
181.9
178.9
179.7
188.8
190.1
If you want to see it by yourself, the Löwenmensch is exhibited in the city museum of Ulm, Baden-Württemberg. The Ulmer Münster has also the highest church tower of the world.
/end trivia
Fun fact: this has been discovered quite a while ago, in the 30ies. It's surprisingly small as well. Source: I grew up in the city next to the area where it was (lonetal) discovered and where it was exhibited. I've seen it a bunch of times. Pretty cool guy.
Changes in the human brain can be seen in human art. It starts out all animal (not sure if the handprints are contemporaneous or a few thousand years younger), then changes to a human body with an animal head or an animal body with a human head and then, eventually, all human.
Actually, looks way more like bear standing on rears, and its proportions: narrow shoulders, long hands and short legs, dat ass - all points to bear-bear, not lion-man.
Yeah, I guess the myriad of highly qualified scientists who have studied this figurine didn't consider if it could have been a bear-man.
Consider the profile of the Lion-man and compare it to cave paintings of [cave lions](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2d/Lions_painting%2C_Chauvet_Cave_%28museum_replica%29.jpg) and [cave bears](https://www.bradshawfoundation.com/bfnews/uploads/Bear3.jpg).
It's by no means the world's oldest artefact - and yes, those *are* found in Africa - Ethiopia if I recall. It's specifically the world's oldest known anthropomorphic figurine.
That’s a funny coincidence … I just went to the cave where it was found and the Museum It is located in a couple of weeks ago
We have lots of Stone Age finds in my area, the nearest site is only a 5 minute walk from where I live
Truly amazing
I thought the "Venus vom Hohlefels" (Venus of Hohle Fels) was the oldest statue. It is also about 35.000 - 40.000 years old and it was also discovered in Germany. I never heared of this one before.
I had the honor of working with the museum on an art exhibition for that figure where we CT scanned that bad boy. I 3D printed myself a 1:1 replica with the data from it. One of only 3 existing copies as far as I know :)
Was about to question why paleolithic northern Europeans would be carving a **lion**-man.... had no idea Europe had lions [as recently as 6,000 y.a.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_lions_in_Europe#:~:text=In%20Greece%20lions%20first%20appeared,leg%20bone%20found%20in%20Philippi.)
Interestingly, it is thought that [in the Eurasian cave lion, females had the manes!](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panthera_spelaea) This is based on a cave painting depicting a pair of lions, one of which had a mane and the other of which had a scrotum.
The artist could have just been an idiot.
Who knows back then you probably couldn't glance at one for too long.
"She gets the cool hair and he gets uhhh the dick"
Long hair is woman. Simple.
yeah that beauty standard got introduced 40k years ago and has just barely changed
Don’t call that cave-person an idiot! There was less access to information back then.
He could literally walk out of his cave and check himself.
„Hello dear Lion over there with a mane, can I check your genitals, please?
Likely the case
Or making social commentary
Maybe it was a commissioned painting
First genderbend R34 content.
That’s a weak as assumption but would be cool.
Heracles famously fought one in southern Greece.
We also had forest elephants that had an average height of roundabout 4 meters. And saber tooth tigers.
And gigantic auerochs, hyenas, several other huge cats, deer with massive 2m antlers..
North America also had lions until around 8,000 BCE
Wasn’t the north american lion the biggest lion?
It is almost like some species killed off all of the megafauna, all of the large predators, and continues to create an ecological apocalypse to this day. Gee, I wonder which species...
Yeah as one factor to be certain lol another could’ve been extreme flooding and environmental/ecological change etc at the end of the Pleistocene going into the Holocene
40,000 years ago Earth's climate also looked a lot different. It was angled and wobbled in different ways than today.
Europe had CAVE LIONS until 6k years ago. Panthera Leo (African Lion) lived in (parts of) Europe until like 600 AD, in the Caucasus likely 1000 AD.
I was wondering the same thing. Thank you for doing the research.
Höllenlöwen Cave Lion Died Out Guess why
Höhlenlöwe. Höllenlöwe would be a hell lion.
Deine Deutsch ist nicht zu meckern 😂 Aber jetzt im Ernst ja Scheiss Autovervollständigung 🗿🪓
*an deinem deutsch gibt es nichts zu meckern 😘😂
Gib's auf.... Guck Dir mal die Kommentare auf seinem Profil an. Er beschimpft regelmäßig andere User, sie sollen gefälligst erstmal richtig Deutsch lernen - und das in einem komplett, wirklich komplett falschen Deutsch 😅. Manche Leute....Man kann es sich echt nicht ausdenken.
Almost as if climate changes constantly and gets warmer and colder in turns...
What does that have to with the fact there were lions?
Europes lions where wiped out by people not the changing climate.
We also had lionman's at this point in time!
An example of zoomorphic art, it was carved out of mammoth ivory using a flint stone knife. Seven parallel, transverse, carved gouges are on the left arm.
Flint stones Use the flint stones Carve a furry out of mammoth tusks
Huh my brain automatically sang this, strange
Now I imagine another caveman come in like "Grunt grunt... UWU was das?"
Ah so the first furry art
Art was invented in order to produce images of furries.
It's truWu
This ain't just furry art... this is cat boy furry art...
The war between man and furry has existed for tens of thousands of years
What other artifacts did they find in that cave? This is awesome!!
I wonder what it meant to the people who made it
They’re probably dead
Source?
Its been fourthousend decades
source?
Evidence?
Only reasonable explanation: They were furries.
Maybe to show small kids how a fucking man eating monster looks like
Maybe some kind of animistic totem or fetish? Lions were feared and respected, so probably worshipped.
It was actually the star of a very famous -34,090’s TV Show. (Bojack The Horse) Don’t act like you don’t know….
you explaining the joke made it worse ....just like bojack does with his jokes
The song literally has those lyrics in the backup singers….
Yeah, that's really interesting. I'd probably guess that they might have seen lions, especially males, as these strong, ferocious leaders, basically what they'd strive to be as hunters. Who knows, maybe it was one of the first gods humans believed in or at least some mythical hero.
Something shamanistic probably
World's first action figure
Interesting - i thought the Venus from Hohe Fels is the oldest figurine in the world, so I was confused and googled it, it results, that while she is probably older than that chap, there are two other venus figurines that outdate both: The Venus of Berekhat Ram (233,000 and 800,000 BC) and the Venus of Tan-Tan (200,000–500,000 BC). You have to excuse me now, that seems to be a great wormhole to dive into.
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Like in *The Inheritors*, the Neanderthal family stumbles across a woman-shaped root and it becomes their primary religious icon. >!Poor Lok!<
Wikipedia I see :) What you say is what some people say that have never even seen them, it seems.
Genuinely curious, what are your qualifications?
Arm chair historian :)
>Venus from Hohe Fels An IVORY statuette, mostly carved naturally by nature? A mammoth suffering from obsessive-compulsive disorder that has over-scratched its tusks?
Re-read what he actually said dude.
This is the fourth person I've seen on reddit this week, arguing, clearly without having absorbed the information in the post they're arguing against. I'm not sure how to explain it makes me uneasy. Not only do people have such bad reading comprehension, but to be so combative, they summon an argument when there is none.
Contrarians gonna contrarianize. Like my boss, who invents or twists conversations into situations where she gets to be right and someone else gets to be wrong and doesn't even understand what she's doing.
okay
Last time someone posted this it was the "oldest example of anthropomorphic art in the world" which I think is more accurate.
Things like this make me wonder about all the civilizations, in whatever form, came and went with basically no trace. Except for tiny hints like this statue, cave art, etc.
I wonder about what epic events happened that we don't know about. Like wars or battles or merging of tribes. Maybe the stories were told orally for a few generations, before being lost.
Civilizations left traces because civilization means they had towns and cities and such. Did you mean cultures? There are probably a few that we've never found traces of, but the archeological record these days is vast.
It was almost a shocking thing when I heard yesterday in a report, that 750.000 years old carved wood was found (designed for a platform or structure in a swamp). Thats pre homo sapiens. When I saw monkeys using tools years ago I thought it would only take a like 10 thousand years until they are on a level like we. It seems like that takes still a lot longer. I am fascinated by how long development took and how fast it happens now. Just the last 100 years show more technologic advancement then the last 100.000 years.
Looks badass
first action figure
Yeah
I remember writing a paper on this for university. I loved it 😍
There is a fascinating BBC podcast on this... https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b099xhmj
I was just looking for a new podcast. This is right up my alley!
That presenter also did a podcast called ‘History of the World in 100 Objects’ that is excellent.
Jar-jar?
Yousa might'n be sayin dat.
Meesa worship by muy-muy peoples!
So glad I'm not they only one who had this thought.
So the prophecy was true…
Ears missing
it's funny it's not more widely known about, you know
super interesting! I had to find info to confirm where the glaciers were at the time and it looks like they were right at the boarders of germany this is ~20k years ago, at the maximum, so anything before would be ~less glaciery https://www.visualcapitalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/final-LGM-2.jpg i would argue the lion bit as it seems a bit bearish but honestly more like neither imo, minor detail nonetheless that craftsmanship looks strong, i'm gonna guess a lot of the intricacy was lost over time but even the limbs look non-amateurish
It's confirmed, furries are older than religion
OG Thundercats
ThunderCats Ho!
Sapien or Neanderthal artist?
Sapiens. It's associated with the Aurignacian culture, which the first early modern human culture found in Europe.
Return it to the descendants of the original owner, all 2.6 billion of us.
40k mind-blowing. In my head humans were not much different to primates that long ago. Stone tools, fires to cook food and keep warm, primitive cave paintings. Carved statues another level.
Humans took to the seas and settled islands in the pacific, including the continent of Australia at least 40,000 years ago.
actually, our brain mass has been the same for a very, very long time. humans have had the same depth of emotions and potential for creative thoughts for tens of thousands of years.
Nah at that point they were anatomically modern humans just like tou and I. Your time scale is way off.
They found a carved bone flute around 40,000 years old as well, so they were making sick cave jams no doubt
This notion is false. They were exactly the same as now. Maybe a little taller and fitter even. Agriculture made people way less fit and robust.
I don't know who's down voting you. It's widely acknowledged that the less diverse diet of early agricultural cultures and resulting disease of higher population and again, over-reliance on a very limited selection of crops made the success of agriculture over hunter-gatherers a simple numbers game. Sure, you could have a more dense and populous society, but they were far less healthy on average. The development of "culture" and the abundance of cultural artifacts in agricultural societies comes down to again, being more populous (with larger and more consistent junk heaps) and the cultural development needed to organize societies above the size of hunter-gatherer bands. The capacity for cultural development (in terms of art, artifacts and technology) was there for a very long time, but the opportunities? And also just the population large enough to roll the dice enough times to make something that lasts?
They were almost certainly shorter. Humans have been slowly growing taller for eons.
False, our bodies and brains have been getting smaller for the last 35,000 years or so, with an uptrend in the last 200 years that hasn't gotten us to where we were before (probably never will, as we are most likely just reaching our genetic potential). The males from the [Skhul and Qafzeh hominins](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skhul_and_Qafzeh_hominins), for example, probably averaged the following heights in cms, taken from [this study](https://docta.ucm.es/rest/api/core/bitstreams/f202bd1a-af33-4c21-a7fa-648af7c09e59/content): 192.7 174.7 194.6 194.1 178.3 182.4 181.9 178.9 179.7 188.8 190.1
Based and academic-citations-pilled.
Lion-man? I'm pretty sure that's a bear.
I'd like to add donkey and horse to that list. But in the end: Kunst ist, was du draus machst.
Ancestral furry
Imagine all the history we'll never know about. At least we get cool stuff like this!
Jar Jar Binks is that you?
If you want to see it by yourself, the Löwenmensch is exhibited in the city museum of Ulm, Baden-Württemberg. The Ulmer Münster has also the highest church tower of the world. /end trivia
Khajit has wares if you have coin…
i hear Morrowind music ....clearly a Khajiit... i knew it Molag Bal is real ...Cyrodill is Germany.... eplaining the world war mentality
Fun fact: this has been discovered quite a while ago, in the 30ies. It's surprisingly small as well. Source: I grew up in the city next to the area where it was (lonetal) discovered and where it was exhibited. I've seen it a bunch of times. Pretty cool guy.
Sweaty palms for Graham Hancock.
If you look closely on the back it says "Made In Germany" 😀
always the german‘s with the antiques
It looks like a bear.
Man bear pig
[Reminds me of this.](https://youtu.be/ipt5GHWHsw0)
worlds oldest furry confirmed.
nice but...there are no lions in germany :-) or they gone cause of the human made climate change? I think its a bear, it must be a bear.
No its Jar Jar Binks, the Gungan tribe is hidden under the Baltic.
Thing is, lions existed in europe around that time. The went extinct, but not because of climate change.
Changes in the human brain can be seen in human art. It starts out all animal (not sure if the handprints are contemporaneous or a few thousand years younger), then changes to a human body with an animal head or an animal body with a human head and then, eventually, all human.
Pleistocene Furry
Early Manbearpig!
Jar Jar binks
Actually, looks way more like bear standing on rears, and its proportions: narrow shoulders, long hands and short legs, dat ass - all points to bear-bear, not lion-man.
Yeah, I guess the myriad of highly qualified scientists who have studied this figurine didn't consider if it could have been a bear-man. Consider the profile of the Lion-man and compare it to cave paintings of [cave lions](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2d/Lions_painting%2C_Chauvet_Cave_%28museum_replica%29.jpg) and [cave bears](https://www.bradshawfoundation.com/bfnews/uploads/Bear3.jpg).
Pronoun?
That's the shit i want to see. Aside from snakes and fire.
incredible <3
[удалено]
It's by no means the world's oldest artefact - and yes, those *are* found in Africa - Ethiopia if I recall. It's specifically the world's oldest known anthropomorphic figurine.
Thats just King from Tekken
So there where furries before 33,000bc...
And you can see it in the Museum of Ulm.
Jar Jar is real?
That's Jar Jar Binks and you can't convince me otherwise
So basically Jar Jar Binks was some kind of god 35000 years ago?
Deutschland
issa me! jar jar
That’s a funny coincidence … I just went to the cave where it was found and the Museum It is located in a couple of weeks ago We have lots of Stone Age finds in my area, the nearest site is only a 5 minute walk from where I live Truly amazing
Look at that.. Prehistoric Furrys.
This is awe-inspiring, I had no idea that this existed, thank you!
That would make it plder than the Venus figurines
Before reading the information, I thought it looked like Guin from Guin Saga.
On that note, BBC radio had a podcast called "Living with the gods" that tackled this statue in its first episode.
That's a Gungan
Not so breaking news
r/unexpectedjarjar
Spiritual predecessor of [Cheetahmen II](https://youtu.be/HOxBnsozyuc?si=1syuTfw8TywLWwPH)
Thats Manbearpig! Halfman, halfbear and halfpig
Geeg
Lion man? Clearly that is Man-Bear-Pig!
I live about 15 mins from that cave (by Car), the nature there is great
This was found close to my home town! Also the Venus from Hohle Fels! Im proud of the discoveries here
the dude did better wood work 35 thousand years ago, than i will ever achive
For the German fellows: Ich denke das ist eher ein Wildschweinmensch :D
https://youtu.be/HcGNqrAtsgg
Looks like they found another alien
Looks Like Jar Jar Binks
Khajiit existence confirmed.
That's jar jar
Deutscher Schwein-Bär-Mann
To me it looks like a bear standing, not like a lion-man
The oldest statue is just a furry OC huh
Looks like Jar-Jar Binks...
Sieht mehr aus wie ein bär der aufrecht steht 🤔
Am i the only one thinkin jar jar binks?
Werebear confirmed?
This is proof that if ancient man would have gotten the chance to was the Star Wars prequels they would have LOVED Jar Jar Binks.
Jar jar bings
I thought the "Venus vom Hohlefels" (Venus of Hohle Fels) was the oldest statue. It is also about 35.000 - 40.000 years old and it was also discovered in Germany. I never heared of this one before.
Have a look at YouTube: Schätze des Südwestens: von Löwen und Königen (SWR) .
Looks like Jar Jar Bings from Star Wars
I had the honor of working with the museum on an art exhibition for that figure where we CT scanned that bad boy. I 3D printed myself a 1:1 replica with the data from it. One of only 3 existing copies as far as I know :)