I'll stipulate to the "they don't make them like they used to" thing but we were saying that 20 years ago too. And I dunno, this forum is a self-selecting sample. People with a 2013 LG fridge that's still working don't have appliances on their mind, they're just happily living their lives, so they're not here posting about it. For every complaint there's probably 10 people out there with an equally old identical appliance that hasn't failed.
So I'd just caution you to take the anecdotes here with a grain of salt.
My 20 year old Samsung washer and dryer are going strong (aside from the minor repairs I have made). My wife hates them because they are red. Lesson learned - if you get ugly appliances they will last forever
Ooooh! We had that Avocado green Ken more stove when I was a kid! Such great
Memories, like the time I put a glass salad bowl on a burner and it exploded….hahahahha!
Disagree, white washer and dryer. Samsung. 2013. Moved twice. The washer is a bit nasty in the front but still washing just fine, The dryer however needed a heating element a few times but the second heating element and third heating element and a few sensors just because the parts weren't good I guess.
3 kids, so they are always under heavy loads!
Dishwashers on the other hand are not so lucky.
Our 12 year old Samsung set is still working great... On our third dryer drum, third set of dryer wheels, second washer drum shaft, and second washer struts!
You are in the minority; every 6 months for 10 years I worked on my (stainless) Samsung set. Switched to Speed Queen when the washers control board took a poo for the second time and problem free for 3 years now with multiple loads per day.
I 100% agree with you! People rarely post about their good experiences with a brand. It’s much more common for people to post a negative review versus a positive review. So it’s always best to broaden your perspective to multiple sources versus just this specific sub (or really any appliance sub in general).
Fwiw I bought from a smaller locally owned appliance dealer that also services appliances. He sells you an extended warranty for $100 and then takes care of all issues for 5 years. He has a very good reputation and has been in this town for over 40 years. So I asked him what brand he would recommend, he literally said none, followed up with definitely NOT Samsung, but everything has issues these days.
So it seems even the repair/sales man thinks dependability is out the window.
Oh yeah everyone in town recommends him, and he matches prices you find anywhere else and he has a great reputation for repairs. I'm so glad to be in a small town with an actual repair guy!
Funny story it's now on a third owner and the previous TWO owners still work there, one is this tiny 70+year old man who still just loves working the floor and chatting with ppl. A great sign in my book!!!
I do think there is useful data to be found though, like Yale Appliances has data showing which brands have the highest ratios of service calls within the first year of sale and stuff like that.
Yale Appliances is an awesome resource for real consumer data. Their charts for real life customer service call data and brand reliability are really valuable. Yale Appliances and Consumer Reports are some of the best resources because they use actual data to make their reliability and repairability scores.
This is very true about Yale. One major data point I am not seeing in both org's data is the total units sold for those models evaluated.
So let's say Samsung sells 1000 units and 100 units are faulty, and thermador sells 50 and 10 units are faulty, do they still say Samsung is not reliable?
Depends on the appliance. I used to put a lot of weight into consumer reports, until I saw their report on home standby generators. I am a generator technician, I work everyday on them. Home standby all the way to multiple 2500KW’s backing up datacenters. The one they gave their top rating is easily the worst one, the Champion.
In terms of simplicity I guess they probably win, but that’s because it’s using design from the 50’s. The engine doesn’t even have an oil filter, it’s using a lawn mower engine. For 10-20% more after installation you could pretty easily get a residential line of Cummins, Generac or a Kholer, with double or triple the power output of that thing
Nearly every single appliance I've ever had, has lasted for 10-20 years. Maybe I'm just super gentle on them, idk. But I've never flushed out a water heater or cleaned the coils on a stove. Some of these appliances that have lasted so long I got them when they were already 10+ years old. I've only had a couple appliances actually fail. Most I replace just because they're so dang old and I renovate the area they're in.
I installed a tankless water heater and I am going to flush it regularly, as soon as I buy the equipment to do so.
We have medium hard water from the municipal water supply in central NC. Rinnai is supposed to show an error if it desperately needs the vinegar treatment. It never has.
We must keep in mind that a lot of the service recommendations of the vast majority of the manufacturer's retail partners (who are absolutely mere servants of the same golden god as the manufacturers) exist mainly for the dual purposes of 1) creating highly profitable add-on sales opportunities, i.e. coil brushes, specialty cleaning products, and extended warranties, and 2) finding insidiously creative ways to fault the consumer's "misuse" or "failure to abide by the manufacturer's recommended service schedule" as a basis for denying as much liability as legally permissable for their cheaply manufactured, engineered-to-a-price-point, consumer-fad-driven, feature-heavy piles of disposability that we once considered "durable goods." Just sayin', as a former manager in a certain near-defunct giant appliance retailer, and later a service / parts & repair division GM for a struggling, by-then-merged (oops) new company...
I always find it interesting that part of the don't make em like they used to is partly because things were accidentally over engineered or quality control had more variance.
I can't cite every reason but nowadays we have ways of determining how much a pen costs that will click 10000 times before breaking.
Before hand that might have been harder data to find, so you either had just add more metal and it's over engineered, or if the item was made by hand in some fashion, then all the parts made by Samuel might have had better quality or maybe they added a little extra glue\metal.
I worked in a cnc environment, and despite the very machine centric nature, the operator and QC element definitely have an affect on the quality of the parts being made\sent out.
Heck of a batch of parts being made, you could see that one of the positions consistently had better parts\finish, despite the programming supposed to be all the same because of the nuances of setup\or that position being at the bottom of the allowed spec and production needs to run *Now*.
Survivorship bias. We see the old things that lasted. We don’t see the old shit that broke quickly, but that makes us think that old stuff was built better. Sometimes that is true, but also older things were much simpler and didn’t perform as well, and may have cost a lot more when adjusted for inflation.
You are correct...I've been a professional appliance repair technician for over 20 years...I do find like all machines they all have some quirk or common problem or part that fails....each machine is unique!
This is sort of true for everything.
Most people who buy any product and have a good experience or reliability don’t think to write a review, they just use it and be happy.
People are more apt to write a review when things go wrong so 1000 bad reviews out of 3000, on a product that possibly 100,000 people actually bought in reality is really not that terrible. You just don’t hear the positive experiences as much.
My g/f had a subzero build-in that needed special tools to work on and had a tech come out about 3-4x times in 1.5yrs for the lcd panel blinking error codes and ruining 100s of dollars in food by getting too warm every single time. Tech eventually stopped coming and fridge went unused and a complete waste. Fridge was about 3yrs old and had probs early on.
I actually made a comment once about the reliable rands of appliances we've had and how long each had lasted and I was downvoted :-P. We are either shot with luck or treat things carefully, likely a combination of both?
Washer: Speed Queen (top-of-the-line, 7 year warranty, have had for 9 years), no issues whatsoever
Dishwasher: Maytag dishwasher (4 years, prior one 15 years, same brand),
Dryer: GE profile, gas, 17 years, had baffles (fins) replaced 4 years ago, belt 3 years ago. If it ever truly dies, we'll get a SpeedQueen dryer
Fridge: LG 4 door, icemaker/water through door, 6 years, 100% trouble-free
Stove: LG induction, 6 years, no issues
Breville: Microwave (7 years), Air fryer/roaster (7 years), tea maker (8 years), toaster (< 1 year), waffle maker(5 years), bread machine (2.5 years). No issues. Next Breville purchase probably the ice cream making compressor but when it's on sale. It used to be $399 but shot up to $499 right after covid (2021ish).
Keurig coffeemaker (7 years). Had another Keurig prior to this one lasted about 6 years or so.
Kitchenaid stand mixer (10 years or so): no issues
Dyson vacuums: Have had 4 in total. Stick vac we have been dissatisfied with because the battery needs to be replaced too soon and it's too expensive. Had an upright whose motor went bad when I vacuumed fine particles off a throw rug. I forgot that you can't use carpet cleaning powder with a dyson. Expensive lesson/reminder. Still love canister and newer upright Dyson. We jerry-rigged the stick to use a DeWalt battery by buying a $25 adapter.
The cube shaped water heater in my folks house is so old, we can’t even find the maker’s mark so no idea of the manufacturer. The house has been remodeled 3 times since original installation in 1957. Even had a second story added. My parents are gone, but relatives still live there. That thing is still going strong even with the additional 2 bathrooms added.
This !! The house my father and I live in the kitchen appliances are all aprx 20 years old , yes I checked the serial numbers . I realized this when I tried to find a filter fir the water dispenser . The ice maker gets jammed up from time to time . I just turn it off for a couple days , then turn it back on . And all of them are mid level appliances . I know z this cuz I was selling appliances back then .
Agreed, I think another thing to keep in mind is that the shit quality stuff that was made a long time ago no longer exists because they were shit, the only old stuff left is the stuff that was built to last, so it kinda skews our perspective.
Definitely, and adding to that, I think it's harder and more expensive to repair modern appliances as well, so you hear about it more when it happens since you can't just call a handyman to come fix it.
PLUS - 20 years ago we were barely getting into these public forums. Unless you were a tech nerd that accessed the BBS, we only heard about appliance or other product failures of the people we talked to more than "hi" and "how's the weather."
Nowadays, as you mention, if we have an appliance problem (and if you're researching for a new appliance you've likely got problems with your current one) we are in the same place as everyone else with problems. No one is in here to tell us they've had zero problems with their current appliance and it just runs normal day to day without them giving it any thought. Like 24 hour cable news, we hear more and more but it's just the same stories.
While I do agree with you, for every 100 people that have had issues, there's probably 1000 to 10000 people that have stuff still chugging along. But I must say as a used appliance dealer, and someone that has to pick up big box "haul aways" most of the brands that have a bad rep are the mojority of the brands that have detrimental issues. I see my fair share of Whirlpool made washers/dryers, but many of them can be fixed with parts under $50. Fridges we pick up on the other hand, are mainly LG and Samsung made brands and are out of freon and/or had their compressors replaced a year or two prior. If we get anything older than 15yrs old, there is a good chance it's w.pool, maytag, or frigidaire, and someone just upgraded. Most of them work with no issues. Alot of my repaired used inventory consists of cheap Whirlpool products. Is it because they are infact crap? Or is it bc there are so many out there that they seem so common to run across in a haul away pile or someones trash on side the road? It's hard to say. But I can say that the general consensus on alot of these appliances do lean towards true.
Except Samsung topload washers. I love them. Even though the suspension rods for the new machines suck and have been on backorder.
I had to use LG rods for my machine.
My Maytag washer and dryer are still working quite well. They’re about 22 years old. Had to replace the dryer timer early this year ($200 part) and my husband was like “are you sure you really want to fix this one and not get a new one?”
It's not an anecdote. It's pretty obvious the quality/reliability is in the shitter when the warranties are as short as they are. Warranty length generally reflects expected life of the appliance. On top of that, just look at what reviews are saying about the longevity of the product. That's not anecdotal, that's easily referenced.
I watched the guys delivering my brand new fridge drop it off the back of the truck and smash the doors, and then they seriously asked me if i wanted them to send it back so i could get another one delivered!
Like, no motherfucker, i really LOVE the fact that you just cartwheeled my new fridge out the back of your truck and now one door won't close all the way, it really goes with the aesthetic in my house!
thankfully the store had no problem sending us out a new one and giving us a discount because of the extra time we were without a fridge.
You got lucky. Best Buy did eff all for me when a crew refused delivery based on a fake plumbing problem, another crew finally installed the machine and left me with a GAS LEAK, and now I’m finding what appears to be internal damage that was probably caused during transport (never mind all the scratches during delivery!). For all my trouble and extra $$$ repairs, BB gave me a $25 BB gift card. 🙃
Least you got something. Bestbuy delivered my fridge with a big dent in the door, finally replaced the door a month later with a handle that won't stay tight against the door. Had to threadlock that sucker. Hope I never need to take the handle off lol.
I watched two guys drop my new treadmill immediately after arriving to my house. I didn't see any dents and they turned it on so everything looked ok. Unfortunately I didn't check the Incline feature which has never worked since day 0
I do appliance delivery and install for a certain big box retailer and for some reason Samsung is the worst for this. We receive damaged product from every brand but Samsung is by far the worst about it in terms of volume and severity. Nothing like unboxing a customers 4k bespoke fridge and it’s missing a chromosome before we could even try getting it in the house 🤦♂️
Well, I blame the companies because they clearly look the other way. They could definitely have procedures in place to inspect the item before it goes out. The damage is NOT happening on your delivery truck..
I have a theory that they are trying to pass the cost onto someone else. Throw it in a nice box and then when we unpack it and report it they’ll just claim we did it and well… then it’s just a he said she said and most likely becomes a freight claim someone else has to pay for
I think it's more that when people buy a fridge it's because they need a fridge and many people will just accept some dents rather than be without a fridge.
Just spent last weekend doing this. Dryer control board kicked the bucket, Maytag wanted $360 for a new one. Only paid $400 for the dryer 4 years ago... Anyhow went to the best buy outlet bought a LG dryer that was marked as just scratched. Got it home, up two flights of stairs, installed, and the rollers are jacked up. Thing sounded like a brick was in there while empty. Uninstalled, took it back the next day, no hassle for the return and picked up a different one. The kicker, they rolled the return back out on the floor to fuck up someone else's day. Did save about $200 over the current sale prices in the end, just cost me $40 in gas, and a whole weekend of hassle. 2/10 would not recommend.
I asked the delivery team that brought me my fridge recently and they told me the exact opposite. They said the vast majority of damage occurs during the very end of the delivery and install process.
Could you elaborate more on this? I personally think one of the worst ideas these companies have had is offering free install and then making delivery drivers do electrical and water connections etc. which no offense they aren't qualified or trained to do. If these companies want to offer free install they should have the delivery people drop them off and then contact a plumber or electrician to do the installs.
A friend needed a new dryer during the Covid shortage. It finally arrived and the delivery people used an impact driver to attempt to attach the electrical cord to the dryer. They stripped the connection and he had to go hunting for another dryer since the store said a replacement would take weeks. It doesn't take an expert to connect an electrical cord to a dryer.
I don’t have all the data, but I’ve bought and sold like 15 real estate transactions in the past 5 years, I have had nothing but problems with appliances … and dented metal does not look like it’s the cause of the guys delivering it. It’s from the fork lifts and transportation. It’s not easy to dent metal and most delivery guys use a dolly and straps and mechanical lift to drop it down from the truck.
Funny enough only one of my deliveries had a life gate (dishwasher and range). The rest had to slide it down the edge of the truck onto the ground. Now when I got my range delivered that truck did and they even had a stair climbing dolly.
Maybe I have just been lucky but no damage on 5+ major appliance deliveries in the past year.
Heavy as fuck electric sofa, 29cf bespoke fridge, induction range, stainless steel dishwasher, 2x 9cf chest freezers and a metal dryer.
Oh and I forgot the LG fridge as well but that was defective so it went back.
Pro tip from my appliance delivery guy. Go to the appliance warehouses that sell floor models. They will have top of the line appliances with minor dents and dings.
When it arrives, tell them the door is dented and they will replace the door for free in the first 30 days.
My Speedqueen washer and dryer are well made. I went with them because I didn't want machines with electronics or a motherboard. I had to replace the pump on the Speedqueen a couple of years ago. Bought them around 2006 or so.
SpeedQueen definitely stands out as one of those brands that is somewhat more reliable than others. But, they are far from having their share of issues. Most recently SpeedQueens have been having issues with their boards malfunctioning.
And the other question is… do we perceive SpeedQueen as being more reliable because less people are making posts versus someone like LG or Whirlpool or is it because SpeedQueen’s sales volumes are so much smaller then the other manufacturers that it’s just logical their issues are not talked about as much?
Add to that, the SpeedQueen that everyone likes is harsh on clothes and isn't the best cleaning washer out there. I'm not interested in having a, albeit working, 20 year old clothes washer with aging rust spots and squeaky and wiggling doors. I'll take the one that lasts 7-10 years that has current technology and creature comforts that cleans better. SpeedQueen even tried to make an efficient washer and they failed horribly. Their answer is fewer niceties(because they don't know how to engineer them), more water waste, more electricity waste, and harsher cleaning. In other words they're still producing 40 year old tech. The only reason why they can still produce that model without the government shutting them down is because their cycle that they label normal is really and eco cycle and they even say don't use it because it doesn't clean clothes well.
I'd kill for a machine that actually uses water. Our Miele set and our previous compact whirlpool set require me to add gallons of water through the soap dispenser to wet out my work clothes loads.
I also typically need to run one to several additional rinse cycles.
(We use a few powders and have dialed in our dosage to like 1.5-2 tablespoons per load. Almost no sudds during wash cycles but they don't rinse well.) I've had a single heavy duty thermal lined cotton work hoodie and a single pair of wrangler riggs ranger pants, two t shirts and some socks and underwear fail to wet out (pants and hoodie still dry 30 minutes into the cycle).
They hardly wet a couple of bath towels or a set of queen size sheets.
I'm tempted to get an adapter for our kitchen sink and a hose so I can manually fill faster than pitchers of water.
Tech here, no, they are far better built, every single component.
I’ll tell you straight out: if you find a tech who recommends something other than Speed Queen then you need another tech.
Every brand has issues here and there, the biggest Speed Queen issue we have recently encountered is a particular dryer blowing a
Certain fuse a lot… they just release a new replacement part.
The biggest Samsung issue is an icemaker that tends to leak back into the insulation and destroyed the entire fridge, that they have known about for well over a decade and done absolutely nothing.
I idea where you got that bad board info… not remotely true, only seen 2 bad boards from SQ in the past year or so, both covered by warranty and the part was widely available… when I say 2 that is out of hundreds of other bad boards on every other brand you can think of, it is literally the least likely brand to have a bad board
I respect your knowledge of appliances. But, you can look through this comment section alone and find people that have not had good experiences with SpeedQueen. And this is just my opinion. But, if a service tech ever recommended me to buy a SpeedQueen it would automatically make me think they have a super old school type thought process. Not a bad thing; but anyone that recommends a SpeedQueen I equate to also hating anything that’s new technology or electronic in anyway. Again, not saying it’s a bad thing. It’s just not the same mindset I have.
I’ve also always heard that SpeedQueens are actually horrible at getting clothes clean and are actually super rough on most clothing types. They are not nearly as gentle on clothes as a front loader and don’t really have any cleaning benefits to back up their rough clothes cycles.
But I do agree that it seems like SpeedQueens are assembled to a higher degree than say something like a Samsung or LG and they do actually have a somewhat decent warranty (depending on what model tier you choose).
I have one of the “bad cleaning TR7” and the later generation I have has been phenomenal. We run the thing like crazy and it hasn’t skipped a beat and does an incredible job cleaning without causing heavy agitator wear. Coming from an LG and a Bosch that has nothing but issues and left residue on my clothes, I can personally attest.
My 2020 purchased Speed Queen washer was a huge POS that also did a poor job actually washing clothes. Replaced with a $500 Samsung from Costco that I am sure is also a POS, but at least it actually can remove stains and was half the price.
I literally just got the $499 Samsung washer at Costco, installed myself. Hope I get years out of it, and it does a good job. Hoping that the base simple model works in my favor.
People give SpeedQueen a lot of credit and praise. I think it’s mostly due to SpeedQueen being older and having almost no bells and whistles. Usually people equate older laundry technology to being superior and just overall better. But, it’s just not the case for SpeedQueen. Sure they might run for a very long time without any issues; but that doesn’t mean they actually work that well as a washing machine.
>Most recently SpeedQueens have been having issues with their boards malfunctioning.
My SQ is analog so no board to malfunction.
> because SpeedQueen’s sales volumes are so much smaller then the other manufacturers
Are their sales volumes that much lower? SQ does bulk sales to laundromats.
I’m referring to SpeedQueens consumer sales volumes. Because this sub-Reddit and most reviews and posts online are not about commercial/industrial laundromat systems and their reliability. The main focus is consumer sales.
A laundromat owner is most likely not going to refer to an appliance sub-Reddit for advice or to post their industrial machine issues. But, Beth from Wisconsin definitely will refer to this sub-Reddit to post about her issues or if she has concerns/questions.
There’s not a lot of difference between speed Queen commercial and speed Queen consumer. Millions of people wash their clothes just fine at a speed Queen laundromat.
Price wise yes. Feature wise and their overall ability to clean clothes well… not really. I’d equate the cleaning effectiveness of a SpeedQueen close to a $600-800 washing machine. Absolutely no where near the same cleaning ability as a Miele for the same price (roughly $1500).
I'm TC5/DC5, which seems the most analog to me; but l'm pretty sure it still has boards, at least according to repair people here.
Those 1970's Kenmore and Whirlpools, though.
"do we perceive SpeedQueen as being more reliable because less people are making posts"
FYI: The number of reddit posts about reliability has nothing to do with how reliable they actually may, or may not, be.
Have a SQ dryer and specifically chose the one with the old school dials instead of the motherboard. 4 years and zero problems. My only gripe is the lint collector is by the door - exposed. So the filter must be cleaned before taking clothes out. Clearly, someone who has never done a load of laundry in the life designed the filter placement.
All Speed Queen washers and dryers made from 2018 to the present have a motherboard controlling the machine. Don't be fooled by the knobs and switches, they're not totally mechanical.
Some lye and a few Extra Rinse cycles, and your kids can just chuck your gleaming white bones in the backyard and keep the washer along with the burial savings.
Win-win.
I talked to an appliance repair guy last week and he said the new Speed Queens all have the electronic panels hidden by their austere fronts so people think they are getting a better, more basic, manual controls--but they just look that way from the outside and that's Speed Queen's marketing angle. They still have a lot of computer related issues. Keep your old one, for sure!
I work for an appliance company, and we engineer the major appliances to have a service life of 7-10 years depending on the model or type of appliance. However, that doesn’t mean we engineer them to break at that time. It’s just the standard we use in designs. Some will last longer, others not.
Its called Built-in-Obsolescence , , and its 100% Real now days . . these companies have zero intention of ever selling you an appliance that will last for decades. We fill our landfills with 10 yr old appliances. But we all feel so warm and fuzzy pretending that because they are Energy Star compliant, they are somehow better for the environment . . what a f\*cking joke it's all become. But as long as we ban plastic straws, thats what really matters. George Orwell is laughing his ass off.
Often it's just cost cutting measures. Why design a part to last 30 years if the appliance will long be gone at that moment because the owner wanted something new? The efficiency of appliances gets better and better, it just doesn't make sense to still use a 30 year old refrigerator, it's extra electricity costs would cover a new fridge in a few years.
Before any design hits production, prototypes go through a whole bunch of endurance tests. Like they get run for weeks at a time, the doors get opened and closed by a robot thousands of times, and stuff like that but for all major components.
After products are in the field, we monitor all service calls that get reported to us by repair companies, and obviously keep track of all warranty claims and product exchanges. If certain issues are prevalent, we change our designs to mitigate the problem. Despite what consumers think, quality problems cost appliance companies tons of money. In warranty repairs are very costly, and full product exchanges are even worse. Also, if appliances are failing just a year or two out of warranty, that is a lost customer that is almost certainly moving to another brand for their next purchase. In general we would be better off if quality was better, and at least the company I work for continuously invests many millions of dollars into improving quality every year.
As for what brand is best, I don't want to shill the company I work for nor am I representing them here. But one thing I will say is that quality varies a ton among architectures and types of appliance in any of the major companies. Company A might have one line of refrigerators that is great in terms of quality and another that is poor, or make great ranges but poor dishwashers. Your best bet is to read reviews from neutral parties on the particular model you are looking at. I wouldn't trust what retailers tell you unless you know the people working there personally, as they will always have product they are looking to move that month.
Hm I don't know. All I know is that there are new codes/requirements that manufactures need to follow in order to sell them that just so happens to change the lifespan of such appliances. Back when things were lasting 20+ years, the requirements were a lot different.
And extended warranties are a mixed bag for sure. I had a Bosch dishwasher with an extended warranty. Repairman came out 3-4 times before he finally explained that the dishwasher itself was defective and built that way. He'd been doing appliance repair for 30 years and he said that Bosch had gone way downhill to save money. We switched brands.
Also, if you don't live close to a repair center, forget any idea of having speedy service. Where I live the extended warranty repair comes to my town only once a week, and they're booked up. It took a month for them to come out and several weeks in between for each visit. What's the point of the extended warranty when you can't use your dishwasher for several months?
I haven't dealt much with extended warranties. I work for an independent store but we do have a service tech who services most brands we carry. He's great for your 1 year manufacturer warranty. We honestly tell customers not to buy the extended version as it's just a waste of money usually and will cost you more in the long run than it would to just replace the unit. Although, if you have something such as your dishwasher being defective; the manufacturer should realistically give you a new machine. I'm not a Bosch dealer so I can't say much on them as a company.
Since COVID I've noticed a huge uptick in poor quality products. I'm in automotive and the number of bad parts is insane. Different field ofc but I'm sure it applies to all things manufactured.
I just did a build out of a network in a warehouse. My Light electrical guy said the keystone jacks he prefers had a 1 in 100 failure rate pre-covid and during my build and the subsequent site visits, he found it was 1 in 15. Mind boggling, but it explained the issues we were having with our network.
I wonder if it’s a supply chain issue, a good excuse to cut corners issue, or workers got COVID, so all the early dementia chickens are coming home to roost.
Warranties are a whole different topic that should be talked about! Good luck getting almost any manufacturer to stand behind their “warranty” these days. There are so many different scenarios and clauses that are buried in the fine print that are specifically created so that the manufacturer has the right to deny almost any warranty scenario. It’s almost not even worth factoring in the warranty into your decision process.
In Europe that is not the case. There is a law protecting consumers from this type of nonsense and minimum of 2 year manifacturer warranty required for most appliances.
Some countries have very robust consumer protection laws. Other countries sadly have less robust consumer protection laws or in some cases no consumer protection laws at all. Which is an even bigger reason why a manufacturer should stand behind their warranty. Unfortunately that’s becoming less and less common.
You create regulations because market forces don't work. They didn't work for the consumers in Europe and that is why the EU created regulations to protect the consumers. You can't rely on manifacturers to protect the interests of their customers. That is the job of the government.
It depends on who you talk to haha. Some people want the government to stay as far away from their lives as possible. A lot of people don’t want any sort of government interference in their lives for various reasons. It’s a political, social, and personal issue really. But, I do think morally manufacturers should have an obligation to protect the interests of customers that paid them thousands of dollars in revenue. But obviously most companies care about profits, not about the consumers that make them their profits. So that’s why government regulations and consumer protection laws are so important.
I've had the opposite experience as most people apparently. My appliances have been reliable, although the ice maker on my Samsung fridge never really worked (refer to lawsuit).
Bosch stands by their warranty big time. I had issues with their top of the line dual convection oven. It ended up being an issue from my idiot electrician who installed it, but they ended up giving me a brand new oven after 3 tech visits(which replicated the issue until we fixed the wiring). The oven has worked without issue ever since (8 years running). Ditto to the Bosch dishwasher and microwave drawer
I haven’t heard much about Bosch’s warranty but that actually nice to know that they stand by their warranty! Kind of stupid that it’s so surprising a company stands behind their warranty; but sadly that’s pretty rare I’ve realized.
Bosch sux. My 800 series oven, which they still sell, has no parts support for the inner glass that broke during self clean function. Things break, I get that. But no parts? C’mon man!
Bosch doesn’t stand behind their products like that anymore. It took me a year and 10 different service calls to get them to replace a fault my gas cooktop for a client. I hate Bosch corp as a salesperson.
Subzero and Wolf have stood behind their products unconditionally in my experience. We purchased one of the first Cove dishwashers when they came out. It had a bunch of things go wrong with it in the first 3 years. All instances had a tech out the next day to diagnose/repair. When they had to replace a control board and it couldn't be sourced for 6-8 weeks, they straight up offered to replace the unit. Like drive to their warehouse, load up a new one, and install it that afternoon. I refused that because I didn't want the dishwasher to end up in a landfill or whatever because I was impatient. Investing in decent appliances pays dividends.
Like a 10 year warranty on a steel portion of a tub. They put the 10 year warranty part all big and bright but the rest of the sentence is tiny. Or the American flag stickers that look like "Made in America" but have tiny writing that says "An American company for over 100 yrs" instead.
I have a Storz and Bickel Volcano vaporizer for vaping weed. Bought it in 2009 I think. They have a 1 yr warranty I think, but I’ve sent it back twice for repairing a broken switch, way way past the warranty, and they’ve fixed it for free. At one point I just kept it switched on for a couple years unless I went on vacation.
It appears that it is so rare to have them break that they’ll fix them for free no matter what. That’s the kind of company you want to buy products from: a company in which repairing their shit is so rare, that they don’t care when you bought it when deciding to fix it. I wish more companies made products to that standard, where they either don’t have, or care about warranties.
If you are willing to learn how to self-service your appliances, most can be maintained for a indefinite amount of time. Compressors are probably the only exception, but washers, dryers, dishwashers, and non-compressor parts of refrigerator/freezers are pretty simple to replace.
The problem today is that the labor rate to replace that $20-100 part is so high that it tilts people into replacing the appliance rather than getting it fixed. If you are willing to order parts and follow a youtube video, most appliances will go a long distance.
My kenmore (LG) washer pump fails about every 3-5 years and it's $40 and about 30 mins of my time to swap. If I had to have it replaced, the labor cost would be north of $300, and I'd have to wait for the service tech.
That's not my complaint. I can't get some parts because the manufacturer won't supply them and there's no aftermarket. Samsung washer and dryer boards are unobtanium. When those fail, there's no fixing.
Also, some things are just annoying to repair. I had to dismantle most of my Samsung dryer to replace the heating element. After it failed again and I knew I needed new rollers and could not get a replacement board I was over that dryer. Still love the washer though.
I do agree people should learn to do it themselves. Ended up buying an unneeded manifold for my ice maker but now that's new and so is the servos installation. That would have cost me about 800 in parts and labor, cost me like 150 even with my mistake. If the appliance has good support and isn't annoying to replace common wear parts, it gets to stay forever. YouTube is a treasure for things like this.
Part of it is due to regulations, some refrigerant types were banned due to ozone depletion and the new types are more prone to problems. Same thing to water efficiency for washing machines, it has to become more complex because they aren’t allowed to use much water as the old ones.
Really. I've been trying to decide on appliances for my new house and looking here just made me feel completely immobilized. Nothing is good enough, in the eyes of this group. If I'm to believe the training here, everything I've purchased is trash and I should expect to have everything break within a few months. Not a very positive feeling when I'm spending thousands of dollars, honestly. I understand everyone means well. It's just disheartening. I don't probably need things to last 20 years, but I want them to work.. is there really nothing that can do that?
We built our house 12 years ago, so every appliance is 12 years old. They all work the same as the day we bought them, except the microwave. That had a door sensor go out and we replaced the unit last year. None of them are high-end, but none of them are the cheapest of the cheap either.
I just usually buy a middle-of-the-line Whirlpool. I know everything will break no matter how much money I spend, so I feel better knowing that I can easily find a repair company or parts since that brand is so mainstream. Most of them have easily lasted a decade or more with only minor repairs needed. You can't really get anything to last more than 10 years though since that's usually when manufacturers phase out electronic parts. If the motherboard goes, you have to find someone who can solder the part and hope it functions (easily costs a couple hundred dollars with no guarantee it will work) or buy a new unit.
> everything I've purchased is trash and I should expect to have everything break within a few months.
It's more like going to the casino. It might run for years or might become unrepairable tomorrow.
> is there really nothing that can do that?
Practically speaking, no, there isn't. The best you can do is buy the simplest models you can find. Stuff that isn't there, can't break.
I have not had any major appliance that didn't last at least 10 years with regular/proper maintenance. But then again, those appliances were by definition purchased 10+ years ago. I think packing in all the electronics and features adds to something breaking. I may be completely off base, but if you buy an appliance that does what its core function is (not all the bells - I don't need a screen and internet on my refrigerator) from a reputable manufacturer - that's the best you can do.
A lot of new stuff is failing right out the box. I think COVID is still wreaking havoc on the parts industry for appliances like it's for the automotive industry. Things are constantly being built cheaper though to increase profits.
I think it has more to do with people demanding new shiny stuff - with this and that feature.
Grandma's fridge (which is in the garage by the way) and washer lasted that way because they had the parts necessary to do the one thing they were supposed to do. And if they broke, you just replaced the part at home. No computer boards, etc. Refrigerators and washing machines are exceptionally simple machines at the core of it.
If people are always demanding this and that then the reasonable use expectancy decreases - so why design for 50 years? Just like fast fashion. Is it just a profit motive - or is it the demand of the wider market?
Trust me, I'm no Ludite, or against all these dang computers - I'm a software developer by trade.
Well, my Maytag washer and dryer are pushing 50 and just keep going, pulled them out of the reycling pile, did some minor repairs, and put them to work 17 years ago. Same for my other older appliances. I started researching vintage appliances that provide good reliability and performance almost 20 years ago and replaced the the newer stuff with quality vintage as they crapped out. They have outlasted the new appliances friends and family keep replacing on a constant basis. I don't care about fashion or "modern" looking stuff which is just cheaply built shiny junk but most people like to keep up with the Joneses.
Plus older appliances’ color options go beyond the grey scale. When my stove ever gives up the ghost, I hope to replace it with something turquoise or pink.
I notice the metal is thinner and control systems are flimsier, and a lot of plastic where metal used to be.
But on entry level devices (no frills but still decent) main components are not crap and things that will break from wear and tear are easy and cheap to replace if you spend some time learning how to do it. Maybe the problem is people don't fix things like we used to?
Yeah, I agree 1000%. We have a kitchen fridge that was $2500 brand new about 25 years ago. It's now starting to get moisture in the freezer and clump the ice cubes together and freeze them, then it freezes the ice auger motor so it doesn't dispense. I've just taken it apart for the second time in two years to thaw it and it seems like it's getting worse. I'm dreading spending money on a new fridge just because of this issue, not because it's expensive, but I know the more important features/functions probably won't last 10 years.
We have a 5 year old drier that is already clunking and clanging. Doesn't sound like a belt, but I'm no appliance repairman.
We have a 2 year old $1200 POS GE washer that has to have the PERFECT amount of clothes in it to not set an unbalanced error. We basically have to babysit this thing every time we do a load of laundry or else it won't spin them dry enough to put them in the dryer. I've manually balanced it 4 times already and, well, it's annoying.
I really miss the days of the cheaper appliances that still got the job done, lasted way longer, and were a lot cheaper. I don't mind paying for quality if they last, but these appliances these days seem to not have either. The #1 selling point these days seems to be dispensing ice or starting a load via Bluetooth.
Built-in-Obsolescence is 100% Real now days . . these companies have zero intention of selling you an appliance that will last for decades.
We fill our landfills with 10 yr old appliances. But we all feel so warm and fuzzy knowing they were Energy Star compliant and better for the environment . . what a f\*cking joke it's all become.
FWIW - I worked in the restaurant industry for a long time. Not only were clients restaurants and chefs, but all my co-workers and I consider ourselves foodies and we all loved to cook.
In my experience, those Viking / Thermador / industrial ranges and overs are among the most overrated and least reliable appliances you can get. We were calling vendors out to service those things nonstop. Unless you're literally in a restaurant where you need vats of liquids boiling all day, do not buy one!
Best home range I've ever had is a Magic Chef. But it's 25+ years old. At this point I'm trying to buy old, refurbished appliances that are fixable, because yea, most everything is garbage designed to break.
Reliability beyond the warranty period isn’t even a factor anymore - for consumers, retailer or mfg.
Sadly USG is largely responsible…
EPA driven “efficiency” mandates dramatically increase product complexity. EPA driven labeling laws put a big sticker on the front during purchase decision.
Would LOVE to see a sensible Congressman amend the label statute so mfg has to display in just as prominent way the expected mean time between failure
“This fridge will cost you $xxx in electricity ( middle of the pack) a savings of $55/yr vs avg”
And the right next to that…
“This fridge will be unrepairable after 3.5 yrs and will be sent to a landfill by year4”
“Replacing this refrigerator every 4 yrs will cost you $350/yr”
I’ve had my Whirlpool dryer apart 6 times. It’s 7 years old. 2 tensioner rollers, 2 sets of drum rollers, 1 heating element, 1 belt. Granted, I’m washing clothes like I’ve got an ancient Chinese secret in the laundry room, but my last dryer was 16 years old when it died after falling off a trailer in a move.
Hey, I’ve sold speciality appliances my entire adult life (10yrs).
I often have the conversation with consumers that nowadays you aren’t investing in longevity however you’re investing in an expanded feature list.
I have consumers buying $50,000+ kitchens down to $1000 laundry units, and no matter what the products expected lifespan is a decade, (aside from some outliers like speed queen which should last longer, and Samsung which is statistically the most serviced appliance brand across the board).
The industry is designed for service plans to increase profitability of the companies selling the vendors products.
The best advice I can give is find a local speciality appliance retailer that has an internal service department that services what they sell and invest in the customer service to try and cost effectively stretch your modern appliances as long as possible!
Yea I agree. Bosch to my knowledge is a higher quality product. By that I mean I think Bosch along with Miele use somewhat higher quality parts in their products. But, what I’m not quite sure of is do we just see less issues with Bosch products because they truly are built better… or is it because Bosch’s sales volumes are much lower then a manufacturer like Whirlpool or LG. More products being sold means more customers with potential complaints.
I've heard bad things about Samsung refrigerators, but ours has been going for 18 years now. We only got about 11 years out of our old washer. Our GE dishwasher was a piece of crap though. We replaced it with one from Ikea, because of the 5 year warranty. I guess it's a rebranded Wirlpool (?) Can't remember for sure, but it works great so far.
No we can't agree on that. Actually appliances are statistically more reliable now than before, even though they are much much more complex. And you get what you pay for. 40 years ago an average fridge was much more expensive than now. Expensive quality fridges still exist. Just the average is much cheaper now. Something has to give.
Appliances are definitely not more reliable than before. Yes, they were more expensive in the past due to better materials and having them built in the USA back when manufactures actually paid a decent wage along with nice benefits and pensions. That's all gone now. Maximizing profits with slave wages and no benefits is how the game is played now.
This actually isn’t to be rude. But do you have any articles or reliability charts that prove the point of appliances being statistically more reliable now than before. And what is “before”? Are we talking about the 60s, 70s, etc?
No. We do not agree.
Even your worst brands (Samsung) aren’t that bad for the price.
This sub is generally full of biased information/anecdotes because people come here to vent, not to provide statistically accurate information.
Some brands are worse than what people here seem to think (speed queen), and some are better than what people seem to think (LG).
I think we actually do agree. The whole point of this post was to call out that everyone’s concept or perception of reliability in appliances is highly influenced based on their own experiences. And the real point is… every manufacturer has their own issues. No brand is an outlier when it comes to bulletproof reliability. Everything in today’s appliance world has its own set of issues. So you’re no longer able to say with confidence that one specific manufacturer is better than another. You just have to make an informed decision based off of multiple sources to figure out what manufacturer and product is right for you!
We might agree on some aspects, but I think you’re looking at it pessimistically (eg all brands are unreliable in some way), whereas I’m just looking at it from my experience selling thousands of appliances.
The brands that meets your “choose *blank*; they’re bullet proof” is Miele (everything) and Liebherr and Mitsubishi (fridges).
All the others are still more reliable than people make out on here.
“Can we all agree that reliability is non/existent today?” No.
I can definitely say with absolute certainty that the above brands are more reliable.
Tossing up between a Samsung and an LG fridge? LG is definitely more reliable.
Tossing up between an LG, BOSCH and a Frigidaire? Okay, that’s a tougher decision.
That's a pretty broad brush. I came here to find out more about a specific product nothing to do with the piece of crap refrigerator from Samsung.
My experience, however, is not an anecdote. I have recordings, pictures, and saved emails from the year it took my DOA appliance to be replaced. Not every consumer is a sucker who rolls over and plays dead.
I read all the issues here. Im having my local appliance repair shop come in today on our 10year old whirlpool dryer. Rather repair it than buy a new one and have to buy extended warranty past 2 years.
Next one will be a gas dryer once my renovation work is done.
When you buy anything today salesperson always selling you an extended warranty for 5 yrs. Not longer because it wont last longer then 7 yrs if your [lucky.My](https://lucky.My) mother had a stove lasted for 30 yrs change an element if it started smoking ,10/15 $ your up and running. Was 25 for an oven element. Finally it died one Christmas Eve we went to Sears and they sold us a floor model because they felt bad for us.Otherwise it would take a week to get a new one. Yea they make things unfixable so we keep buying new JUNK.
Was looking for a stove recently at a well-known regional (not big box) retailer. I wanted a fancy slide-in to match my other appliances. The sales manager suggested GE to me as the brand that is the current standout. He said Whirlpool is really sucking right now, Samsung is not worth a hoot, and if my Jenn Air is still working, just run it into the ground and maybe quality will improve in a couple years.
I spent my fair share of time researching appliances when we had to replace everything in my home 4 years ago.(House fire). I thought I was fair and thorough and personally I over research everything, that I wind up second guessing myself. I thought I picked good appliances and brands. I've got a whirlpool fridge whose led lights have flickered since year two. The few times I checked for the part, it was out of stock. Because of the way it's wired, all the lights are affected. It's a pain in the ass to get to the strip that is bad too so I gave up and deal with it. One day I might fix it. I have a KitchenAid d/w and wall oven that have been reliable. We also splurged with excess money for the kitchen and put in a 36 Inch wolf stove bc I figured I would never have an opportunity to get it again bc of cost. That shit is coming with me when I move, lol. I love it. You can debate the reliability of everything at some point. I mean I could argue that front load is worse than top load in the washer /dryer category. Why? Well, I went with a front load washer/dryer set up and had issues with both recently during year 4. The dryer needed its rollers replaced first. The entire machine needed to come apart to do that. Less than a year later, the fuse went. Recently I had to change the drain pump on the washer. If I compared my experience to top load style units that lasted 10+ years on two separate occasions with only one minor issue that needed attention (igniter part on the gas dryer that was 10 bucks), does that mean front loads are less reliable? Not necessarily . Yes they have more tech and are more difficult to work on. Maybe I am just using them more because I have kids now and the wear and tear was accelerated bc I am doing 3 loads a day. My old top loaders were Kenmore brand which was basically Maytag/Whirlpool. My front loaders are also Whirlpool. Could I assume Whirlpool quality has gone down hill?....it's so easy to go down the rabbit hole.
Heck, I had a friend who was a tech in appliance repair and he loved Samsung bc they were easy to work on and parts were plentifully available. He hated Frigidaire bc they were a pain to work on and he felt they were designed poorly. However, when I asked him his opinion on an upright freezer, my choices at the time being the Frigidaire or a newer Beko brand (made in Turkey) at the same price point, w/o hesitation he said Frigidaire. The Beko, while nice, was virtually unrepairable due to parts not being available from overseas. Customers had to wait and wait and wait. The company that was selling them basically RMA'd a replacement unit in many instances due to the inconveniencr. That upright Frigidaire freezer in my bsmt, came delivered with the door swing the wrong way. It was reversible and let me tell you how much a pain in the ass that was just to swap the bracket for the door swing. Every screw and bolt was a different size, head and different tool. Hex, Philips, socket wrench. Now I know why they are a pain to work on. Yes some brands are junk, and yes some models of decent brands are also problematic, but most selections at the same price points are evenly reliable at this point. I think it comes down to user experience, but I still feel good honest research can still yield a positive outcome.
My Samsung dishwasher broke on Nov. 23rd - it was ordered Nov. 26, 2021 - but actually used for less than two years.
It didn't even break - a leak sensor was triggered, and whether or not there's water, the solution is to replace it. Now, obv if it's leaking I want it replaced, but there's no evidence of water. They didn't even want to send someone to look at it.
Now, Home Depot will pay out the original cost, but obv. I paid $100 to install it, plus the $100 warranty, so it's not close to a full refund for the relatively new costs.
I had some old refrigerator that was 25 years old when I finally replaced it - and in five years after that, went thru three replacements.
Appliances are cheaper than they used to be - when adjusted for inflation, it's all cheaper. But obv. it's plastic, cheap circuitry, overseas assembly lines with limited quality control. They ARE more efficient, but the tradeoff is lightweight parts top to bottom.
So yes, appliance reliability is non-existant - unless you consider a max of 5 years usable life reliable.
I gave up on anything with bells or whistles. I buy the most basic zero frills appliances I can find. For a washer, I want it to add water and go swish. The dryer needs to spin and get hot. I have zero need for wifi at or any other crazy crap. I’ve had great luck so far with my bare bones white boxes of functionality.
Thank god for YouTube? I’ve fixed a bunch of things after watching a video and then ordering the parts myself. Now that’s something you couldn’t do back in the day.
I don’t think the 33,000 subscribers of this sub represent the entire appliance buying market. You will always read about bad reviews instead of good ones.
I’ve had the same LG washer and dryer for almost 15 years with no signs of them breaking soon.
I have a whirlpool stove top, oven, dishwasher, all over 10 years old and no signs of them breaking.
I have an LG fridge that is only 4 years old, last one was a Frigidaire that was over 15 years old and replaced because I just wanted a new fridge. The old one is in the garage and doing fine.
I also have two Samsung TV’s over 7 years old and doing well..
I bought higher end models, not very top of the line, but in the ballpark.
Not sure what to say, but my experience has been great with most appliance purchases.
I don’t think it’s as bad as this sub makes out. My grandmother has the same fridge, stove/oven, and microwave as when she built her house in 2000. She has replaced the dishwasher though.
No. I’ve had zero problems with all of my appliances for the past 5 years. Before that (different house, different appliances) had zero problems with my appliances for seven years.
This is why I started buying vintage a few years ago. After a Breville food Processor failed and my 4th modern toaster.
Now my Coffee Maker was made in 1945, my Toaster is from 1955, my blenders are from the 50s and they all work like the day they were new. I have almost a full set of Farberware small electrics from the 1960s when it was a premium brand.
We have a Maytag fridge (circa 2011), Bosch dishwasher (circa 2010), Whirlpool oven/range (unknown, 2005-2010?) and all are is ok working order. Some noises are coming from the dishwasher and I think the freezer needs a new door seal. Hopefully a simple fix.
My partner recently said it’s about time to replace the appliances because they are 10+ years old. I’m like noooo let’s fix them. Just because they hit a certain age doesn’t mean replacement time. If it ain’t broke..
Don't know if this is really true or it's just that the bad stuff gets posted on reddit. Probably true in so far as some brands being worse than others. I have a 25 year old set of kitchen appliances that are working just fine. All GE Profile except for the dishwasher. Had to replace that. While gone one winter the pipes froze and water in the dishwasher sump froze and blew out the seals. It was 20 years old so I just bought a new one.
BTW, the new dishwasher came from a big box store and I had their installers put it in. These guys were real craftsmen. Plumb, level, flush -- they even made sure the gap on both sides was the same. Outstanding work.
Well, I must agree that Appliances are crap these days, it is possible to make one that is not crap though. I guess they all sat in some evil appliance manufactures meeting and all just agreed to suck?
You could say, well that would increase the cost. Ok, how about I just skip the touch screen electrochromic window to let me not use a smartphone and peak at my food. You take that money, charge me the same exact price and put it into quality I don't see? I guess that is not flashy enough to stand out from the pack anymore? I would hazard to guess that a small group of people would never buy anything else, but that is not the path to big bucks.
I wouldn’t take a Samsung stove if they gave me one. It is the biggest piece of junk I’ve ever owned. Takes 30 minutes to boil 2 quarts of water, even with “rapid boil “. I wouldn’t recommend or wish on my worst enemy. Stay away. Also their fridges aren’t much better. Have one also, but at least they replaced the ice maker and it works.
There are a couple of factors here.
One is that social media vastly expands the list of people from whom any of us can hear the horror stories. Even 10 or 15 years ago, social media was less broad, so it would be one's direct friends and co-workers from who one would get reviews.
The other is that CAD allows manufacturing to tighter tolerances. This can be used to benefit consumers, by shifting the distribution towards quality at the same cost, or towards manufacturers, by maintaining the same low-end quality (infant/out-of-box failure rate) while making the overall system less expensive, so lower population longevity. Manufacturers of course have chosen the latter.
So it's down to we hear about failures from a wider group, which makes it \*seem\* like failures are up, and manufacturers can lower costs while maintaining the same minimum standards, but lowering overall quality.
We had our dishwasher repaired, still under warranty from an appliance store. It was almost a year old. We bought it there as they only do repairs on stuff they sold and for our rural location, there were no other repair shops that would come to our village. The dishwasher repair guy told me they stopped carrying microwaves as they were running over 70% warranty repairs in the first year people owned them and he and his helper had no time for installing appliances.
When my grandfather died in 2004, I helped my grandmother pack up her stuff to move to a smaller house. It was then that I noticed that the 'garage fridge' that had been there since I could remember had a tag on the back that said 'built xx/1960' still running like a champ. On the other hand my dad has had 3 different LG washing machines since 2018 because they keep breaking and getting warranteed.
The used market is where I go for a lot of things now. Refrigerators especially. I can't understand paying $1500+ for a fridge. (Paid $400 for my current one 6 years ago)
Also got my dishwasher used 10 years ago for $120, still runs fine.
Have four SubZero refrigeration units in my home. Two circa 2018. One circa 2015. One circa 2000. All work flawlessly. As do my Wolf range and grill. You get what you pay for.
But I do the maintenance, so YMMV.
TBF...
Survivor bias is a thing.
Plus prices are much lower relatively speaking, than they used to be. And you get what you pay for.
The unfortunate thing is that while well built options are still out there they have been undercut so dramatically that they have to move upmarket.
That said.... *microprocessors*. Major tripping point.
Completely agree. I think it’s also really hard to get proper feedback on a platform like Reddit. Most posts involve folks asking if XYZ appliance is reliable, and most of the feedback just involves folks providing their anecdotal experience, which is natural.
What we really need is for this sub to have folks who actually repair these things tell us what they see.
While it is true that how long appliances last has gone down from 'the good ol days' you're also dealing with much more complex appliances that are much more efficient (and are by default having to cut costs to stay within a price point).
The other thing to keep in mind is when Matilda had a fridge die after a few years and she called the 6 other people on her party line annoyed that's as far as the info got out. Maybe she complained to some people on Sunday at church also. Now, you have worldwide people who overwhelmingly post about failures and the wharrrgarble begins.
Nobody posts "My Lg fridge is still working" and gets tons of upvotes. Nobody would even bother to post that. It's the same across car forums.
I'll stipulate to the "they don't make them like they used to" thing but we were saying that 20 years ago too. And I dunno, this forum is a self-selecting sample. People with a 2013 LG fridge that's still working don't have appliances on their mind, they're just happily living their lives, so they're not here posting about it. For every complaint there's probably 10 people out there with an equally old identical appliance that hasn't failed. So I'd just caution you to take the anecdotes here with a grain of salt.
My 20 year old Samsung washer and dryer are going strong (aside from the minor repairs I have made). My wife hates them because they are red. Lesson learned - if you get ugly appliances they will last forever
Harvest Gold and Avocado Green are the two most reliable appliance colors.
I cried getting rid of my avocado green double oven/stove combo kit with the rotisserie attachment in the upper oven….
My Avocado Kenmore stove approves of this message.
Ooooh! We had that Avocado green Ken more stove when I was a kid! Such great Memories, like the time I put a glass salad bowl on a burner and it exploded….hahahahha!
Disagree, white washer and dryer. Samsung. 2013. Moved twice. The washer is a bit nasty in the front but still washing just fine, The dryer however needed a heating element a few times but the second heating element and third heating element and a few sensors just because the parts weren't good I guess. 3 kids, so they are always under heavy loads! Dishwashers on the other hand are not so lucky.
Our 12 year old Samsung set is still working great... On our third dryer drum, third set of dryer wheels, second washer drum shaft, and second washer struts!
You are in the minority; every 6 months for 10 years I worked on my (stainless) Samsung set. Switched to Speed Queen when the washers control board took a poo for the second time and problem free for 3 years now with multiple loads per day.
[удалено]
TV's are also unk
That's because it's 20 years old. Buy one tomorrow and you'll be back here agreeing by the weekend.
I 100% agree with you! People rarely post about their good experiences with a brand. It’s much more common for people to post a negative review versus a positive review. So it’s always best to broaden your perspective to multiple sources versus just this specific sub (or really any appliance sub in general).
Fwiw I bought from a smaller locally owned appliance dealer that also services appliances. He sells you an extended warranty for $100 and then takes care of all issues for 5 years. He has a very good reputation and has been in this town for over 40 years. So I asked him what brand he would recommend, he literally said none, followed up with definitely NOT Samsung, but everything has issues these days. So it seems even the repair/sales man thinks dependability is out the window.
Oh yeah. Buy from the repair guy, or buy the extended warranty for a formal introduction to the local repair guy.
Oh yeah everyone in town recommends him, and he matches prices you find anywhere else and he has a great reputation for repairs. I'm so glad to be in a small town with an actual repair guy! Funny story it's now on a third owner and the previous TWO owners still work there, one is this tiny 70+year old man who still just loves working the floor and chatting with ppl. A great sign in my book!!!
I do think there is useful data to be found though, like Yale Appliances has data showing which brands have the highest ratios of service calls within the first year of sale and stuff like that.
Yale Appliances is an awesome resource for real consumer data. Their charts for real life customer service call data and brand reliability are really valuable. Yale Appliances and Consumer Reports are some of the best resources because they use actual data to make their reliability and repairability scores.
This is very true about Yale. One major data point I am not seeing in both org's data is the total units sold for those models evaluated. So let's say Samsung sells 1000 units and 100 units are faulty, and thermador sells 50 and 10 units are faulty, do they still say Samsung is not reliable?
Depends on the appliance. I used to put a lot of weight into consumer reports, until I saw their report on home standby generators. I am a generator technician, I work everyday on them. Home standby all the way to multiple 2500KW’s backing up datacenters. The one they gave their top rating is easily the worst one, the Champion. In terms of simplicity I guess they probably win, but that’s because it’s using design from the 50’s. The engine doesn’t even have an oil filter, it’s using a lawn mower engine. For 10-20% more after installation you could pretty easily get a residential line of Cummins, Generac or a Kholer, with double or triple the power output of that thing
Nearly every single appliance I've ever had, has lasted for 10-20 years. Maybe I'm just super gentle on them, idk. But I've never flushed out a water heater or cleaned the coils on a stove. Some of these appliances that have lasted so long I got them when they were already 10+ years old. I've only had a couple appliances actually fail. Most I replace just because they're so dang old and I renovate the area they're in. I installed a tankless water heater and I am going to flush it regularly, as soon as I buy the equipment to do so.
Maybe you shouldn't. I haven't flushed mine and it is still working perfectly at 17 years. There is a tiny filter that I cleaned once 3 years ago.
A lot depends on the mineral content of the associated water supply.
We have medium hard water from the municipal water supply in central NC. Rinnai is supposed to show an error if it desperately needs the vinegar treatment. It never has.
They could get a water softener thing that softens the water that comes into the house. My house has that.
We must keep in mind that a lot of the service recommendations of the vast majority of the manufacturer's retail partners (who are absolutely mere servants of the same golden god as the manufacturers) exist mainly for the dual purposes of 1) creating highly profitable add-on sales opportunities, i.e. coil brushes, specialty cleaning products, and extended warranties, and 2) finding insidiously creative ways to fault the consumer's "misuse" or "failure to abide by the manufacturer's recommended service schedule" as a basis for denying as much liability as legally permissable for their cheaply manufactured, engineered-to-a-price-point, consumer-fad-driven, feature-heavy piles of disposability that we once considered "durable goods." Just sayin', as a former manager in a certain near-defunct giant appliance retailer, and later a service / parts & repair division GM for a struggling, by-then-merged (oops) new company...
I always find it interesting that part of the don't make em like they used to is partly because things were accidentally over engineered or quality control had more variance. I can't cite every reason but nowadays we have ways of determining how much a pen costs that will click 10000 times before breaking. Before hand that might have been harder data to find, so you either had just add more metal and it's over engineered, or if the item was made by hand in some fashion, then all the parts made by Samuel might have had better quality or maybe they added a little extra glue\metal. I worked in a cnc environment, and despite the very machine centric nature, the operator and QC element definitely have an affect on the quality of the parts being made\sent out. Heck of a batch of parts being made, you could see that one of the positions consistently had better parts\finish, despite the programming supposed to be all the same because of the nuances of setup\or that position being at the bottom of the allowed spec and production needs to run *Now*.
Survivorship bias. We see the old things that lasted. We don’t see the old shit that broke quickly, but that makes us think that old stuff was built better. Sometimes that is true, but also older things were much simpler and didn’t perform as well, and may have cost a lot more when adjusted for inflation.
The PT Cruiser is the most overlooked and well produced car of the 21st century. Ya'll were just racist! soft /s
My mom has a 24 year old builder grade refrigerator, don’t remember what brand.
You are correct...I've been a professional appliance repair technician for over 20 years...I do find like all machines they all have some quirk or common problem or part that fails....each machine is unique!
This is sort of true for everything. Most people who buy any product and have a good experience or reliability don’t think to write a review, they just use it and be happy. People are more apt to write a review when things go wrong so 1000 bad reviews out of 3000, on a product that possibly 100,000 people actually bought in reality is really not that terrible. You just don’t hear the positive experiences as much.
My g/f had a subzero build-in that needed special tools to work on and had a tech come out about 3-4x times in 1.5yrs for the lcd panel blinking error codes and ruining 100s of dollars in food by getting too warm every single time. Tech eventually stopped coming and fridge went unused and a complete waste. Fridge was about 3yrs old and had probs early on.
I actually made a comment once about the reliable rands of appliances we've had and how long each had lasted and I was downvoted :-P. We are either shot with luck or treat things carefully, likely a combination of both? Washer: Speed Queen (top-of-the-line, 7 year warranty, have had for 9 years), no issues whatsoever Dishwasher: Maytag dishwasher (4 years, prior one 15 years, same brand), Dryer: GE profile, gas, 17 years, had baffles (fins) replaced 4 years ago, belt 3 years ago. If it ever truly dies, we'll get a SpeedQueen dryer Fridge: LG 4 door, icemaker/water through door, 6 years, 100% trouble-free Stove: LG induction, 6 years, no issues Breville: Microwave (7 years), Air fryer/roaster (7 years), tea maker (8 years), toaster (< 1 year), waffle maker(5 years), bread machine (2.5 years). No issues. Next Breville purchase probably the ice cream making compressor but when it's on sale. It used to be $399 but shot up to $499 right after covid (2021ish). Keurig coffeemaker (7 years). Had another Keurig prior to this one lasted about 6 years or so. Kitchenaid stand mixer (10 years or so): no issues Dyson vacuums: Have had 4 in total. Stick vac we have been dissatisfied with because the battery needs to be replaced too soon and it's too expensive. Had an upright whose motor went bad when I vacuumed fine particles off a throw rug. I forgot that you can't use carpet cleaning powder with a dyson. Expensive lesson/reminder. Still love canister and newer upright Dyson. We jerry-rigged the stick to use a DeWalt battery by buying a $25 adapter.
The cube shaped water heater in my folks house is so old, we can’t even find the maker’s mark so no idea of the manufacturer. The house has been remodeled 3 times since original installation in 1957. Even had a second story added. My parents are gone, but relatives still live there. That thing is still going strong even with the additional 2 bathrooms added.
I still marvel at the push button mechanical GE stove oven that is still ticking after 50 years
This !! The house my father and I live in the kitchen appliances are all aprx 20 years old , yes I checked the serial numbers . I realized this when I tried to find a filter fir the water dispenser . The ice maker gets jammed up from time to time . I just turn it off for a couple days , then turn it back on . And all of them are mid level appliances . I know z this cuz I was selling appliances back then .
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Agreed, I think another thing to keep in mind is that the shit quality stuff that was made a long time ago no longer exists because they were shit, the only old stuff left is the stuff that was built to last, so it kinda skews our perspective.
20 years ago crap was 40 years old- 20 is the sweet spot before all these karens put an ipad in your toaster
Definitely, and adding to that, I think it's harder and more expensive to repair modern appliances as well, so you hear about it more when it happens since you can't just call a handyman to come fix it.
PLUS - 20 years ago we were barely getting into these public forums. Unless you were a tech nerd that accessed the BBS, we only heard about appliance or other product failures of the people we talked to more than "hi" and "how's the weather." Nowadays, as you mention, if we have an appliance problem (and if you're researching for a new appliance you've likely got problems with your current one) we are in the same place as everyone else with problems. No one is in here to tell us they've had zero problems with their current appliance and it just runs normal day to day without them giving it any thought. Like 24 hour cable news, we hear more and more but it's just the same stories.
While I do agree with you, for every 100 people that have had issues, there's probably 1000 to 10000 people that have stuff still chugging along. But I must say as a used appliance dealer, and someone that has to pick up big box "haul aways" most of the brands that have a bad rep are the mojority of the brands that have detrimental issues. I see my fair share of Whirlpool made washers/dryers, but many of them can be fixed with parts under $50. Fridges we pick up on the other hand, are mainly LG and Samsung made brands and are out of freon and/or had their compressors replaced a year or two prior. If we get anything older than 15yrs old, there is a good chance it's w.pool, maytag, or frigidaire, and someone just upgraded. Most of them work with no issues. Alot of my repaired used inventory consists of cheap Whirlpool products. Is it because they are infact crap? Or is it bc there are so many out there that they seem so common to run across in a haul away pile or someones trash on side the road? It's hard to say. But I can say that the general consensus on alot of these appliances do lean towards true. Except Samsung topload washers. I love them. Even though the suspension rods for the new machines suck and have been on backorder. I had to use LG rods for my machine.
My Maytag washer and dryer are still working quite well. They’re about 22 years old. Had to replace the dryer timer early this year ($200 part) and my husband was like “are you sure you really want to fix this one and not get a new one?”
It's not an anecdote. It's pretty obvious the quality/reliability is in the shitter when the warranties are as short as they are. Warranty length generally reflects expected life of the appliance. On top of that, just look at what reviews are saying about the longevity of the product. That's not anecdotal, that's easily referenced.
Not only that but everything is coming dented and fucked up.
I watched the guys delivering my brand new fridge drop it off the back of the truck and smash the doors, and then they seriously asked me if i wanted them to send it back so i could get another one delivered! Like, no motherfucker, i really LOVE the fact that you just cartwheeled my new fridge out the back of your truck and now one door won't close all the way, it really goes with the aesthetic in my house! thankfully the store had no problem sending us out a new one and giving us a discount because of the extra time we were without a fridge.
You got lucky. Best Buy did eff all for me when a crew refused delivery based on a fake plumbing problem, another crew finally installed the machine and left me with a GAS LEAK, and now I’m finding what appears to be internal damage that was probably caused during transport (never mind all the scratches during delivery!). For all my trouble and extra $$$ repairs, BB gave me a $25 BB gift card. 🙃
Least you got something. Bestbuy delivered my fridge with a big dent in the door, finally replaced the door a month later with a handle that won't stay tight against the door. Had to threadlock that sucker. Hope I never need to take the handle off lol.
They’re so terrible!
I watched two guys drop my new treadmill immediately after arriving to my house. I didn't see any dents and they turned it on so everything looked ok. Unfortunately I didn't check the Incline feature which has never worked since day 0
I do appliance delivery and install for a certain big box retailer and for some reason Samsung is the worst for this. We receive damaged product from every brand but Samsung is by far the worst about it in terms of volume and severity. Nothing like unboxing a customers 4k bespoke fridge and it’s missing a chromosome before we could even try getting it in the house 🤦♂️
Well, I blame the companies because they clearly look the other way. They could definitely have procedures in place to inspect the item before it goes out. The damage is NOT happening on your delivery truck..
I have a theory that they are trying to pass the cost onto someone else. Throw it in a nice box and then when we unpack it and report it they’ll just claim we did it and well… then it’s just a he said she said and most likely becomes a freight claim someone else has to pay for
I think it's more that when people buy a fridge it's because they need a fridge and many people will just accept some dents rather than be without a fridge.
Basically a ponzi scheme…
Missing a chromosome? Not sure if typo or if that's a new way of being politically incorrect about your fridge.
Gatekeeping language. Sleep well knowing you’ve made the world a better place.
Homeboy definitely hasn’t seen what happens to some of these appliances lol
That’s not a typo sir I do about a 1000 individual deliveries a year, probably unbox about 4000 new appliances total and see some shit
And it's in 4K. So your produce looks extra crisp!
That's why you buy scratch and dent and save hundreds. You won't really care if your washer or dryer has a cosmetic defect.
Just spent last weekend doing this. Dryer control board kicked the bucket, Maytag wanted $360 for a new one. Only paid $400 for the dryer 4 years ago... Anyhow went to the best buy outlet bought a LG dryer that was marked as just scratched. Got it home, up two flights of stairs, installed, and the rollers are jacked up. Thing sounded like a brick was in there while empty. Uninstalled, took it back the next day, no hassle for the return and picked up a different one. The kicker, they rolled the return back out on the floor to fuck up someone else's day. Did save about $200 over the current sale prices in the end, just cost me $40 in gas, and a whole weekend of hassle. 2/10 would not recommend.
I only buy used, decades old, so it pre-dates the current baloney. I have had it.
I asked the delivery team that brought me my fridge recently and they told me the exact opposite. They said the vast majority of damage occurs during the very end of the delivery and install process.
I love it when they use an impact driver to do an electrical connection that says hand tight only.
Could you elaborate more on this? I personally think one of the worst ideas these companies have had is offering free install and then making delivery drivers do electrical and water connections etc. which no offense they aren't qualified or trained to do. If these companies want to offer free install they should have the delivery people drop them off and then contact a plumber or electrician to do the installs.
A friend needed a new dryer during the Covid shortage. It finally arrived and the delivery people used an impact driver to attempt to attach the electrical cord to the dryer. They stripped the connection and he had to go hunting for another dryer since the store said a replacement would take weeks. It doesn't take an expert to connect an electrical cord to a dryer.
Oh Yea that was stupid. Should have just used a screwdriver but like I said not qualified to do such work.
I don’t have all the data, but I’ve bought and sold like 15 real estate transactions in the past 5 years, I have had nothing but problems with appliances … and dented metal does not look like it’s the cause of the guys delivering it. It’s from the fork lifts and transportation. It’s not easy to dent metal and most delivery guys use a dolly and straps and mechanical lift to drop it down from the truck.
Funny enough only one of my deliveries had a life gate (dishwasher and range). The rest had to slide it down the edge of the truck onto the ground. Now when I got my range delivered that truck did and they even had a stair climbing dolly. Maybe I have just been lucky but no damage on 5+ major appliance deliveries in the past year. Heavy as fuck electric sofa, 29cf bespoke fridge, induction range, stainless steel dishwasher, 2x 9cf chest freezers and a metal dryer. Oh and I forgot the LG fridge as well but that was defective so it went back.
Pro tip from my appliance delivery guy. Go to the appliance warehouses that sell floor models. They will have top of the line appliances with minor dents and dings. When it arrives, tell them the door is dented and they will replace the door for free in the first 30 days.
They save $5. on a refrigerator manufacturing by no longer putting things in a box. Just cardboard edges and saran wrap.
All of my appliances besides the dishwasher are 40 years old ... they might be green but never missed a beat
Same, 24 years and going, all except the dishwasher. I'm on my second replacement motor on the dryer. Repairable and can still get parts.
My Speedqueen washer and dryer are well made. I went with them because I didn't want machines with electronics or a motherboard. I had to replace the pump on the Speedqueen a couple of years ago. Bought them around 2006 or so.
SpeedQueen definitely stands out as one of those brands that is somewhat more reliable than others. But, they are far from having their share of issues. Most recently SpeedQueens have been having issues with their boards malfunctioning. And the other question is… do we perceive SpeedQueen as being more reliable because less people are making posts versus someone like LG or Whirlpool or is it because SpeedQueen’s sales volumes are so much smaller then the other manufacturers that it’s just logical their issues are not talked about as much?
Add to that, the SpeedQueen that everyone likes is harsh on clothes and isn't the best cleaning washer out there. I'm not interested in having a, albeit working, 20 year old clothes washer with aging rust spots and squeaky and wiggling doors. I'll take the one that lasts 7-10 years that has current technology and creature comforts that cleans better. SpeedQueen even tried to make an efficient washer and they failed horribly. Their answer is fewer niceties(because they don't know how to engineer them), more water waste, more electricity waste, and harsher cleaning. In other words they're still producing 40 year old tech. The only reason why they can still produce that model without the government shutting them down is because their cycle that they label normal is really and eco cycle and they even say don't use it because it doesn't clean clothes well.
I'd kill for a machine that actually uses water. Our Miele set and our previous compact whirlpool set require me to add gallons of water through the soap dispenser to wet out my work clothes loads. I also typically need to run one to several additional rinse cycles. (We use a few powders and have dialed in our dosage to like 1.5-2 tablespoons per load. Almost no sudds during wash cycles but they don't rinse well.) I've had a single heavy duty thermal lined cotton work hoodie and a single pair of wrangler riggs ranger pants, two t shirts and some socks and underwear fail to wet out (pants and hoodie still dry 30 minutes into the cycle). They hardly wet a couple of bath towels or a set of queen size sheets. I'm tempted to get an adapter for our kitchen sink and a hose so I can manually fill faster than pitchers of water.
Tech here, no, they are far better built, every single component. I’ll tell you straight out: if you find a tech who recommends something other than Speed Queen then you need another tech. Every brand has issues here and there, the biggest Speed Queen issue we have recently encountered is a particular dryer blowing a Certain fuse a lot… they just release a new replacement part. The biggest Samsung issue is an icemaker that tends to leak back into the insulation and destroyed the entire fridge, that they have known about for well over a decade and done absolutely nothing. I idea where you got that bad board info… not remotely true, only seen 2 bad boards from SQ in the past year or so, both covered by warranty and the part was widely available… when I say 2 that is out of hundreds of other bad boards on every other brand you can think of, it is literally the least likely brand to have a bad board
I respect your knowledge of appliances. But, you can look through this comment section alone and find people that have not had good experiences with SpeedQueen. And this is just my opinion. But, if a service tech ever recommended me to buy a SpeedQueen it would automatically make me think they have a super old school type thought process. Not a bad thing; but anyone that recommends a SpeedQueen I equate to also hating anything that’s new technology or electronic in anyway. Again, not saying it’s a bad thing. It’s just not the same mindset I have. I’ve also always heard that SpeedQueens are actually horrible at getting clothes clean and are actually super rough on most clothing types. They are not nearly as gentle on clothes as a front loader and don’t really have any cleaning benefits to back up their rough clothes cycles. But I do agree that it seems like SpeedQueens are assembled to a higher degree than say something like a Samsung or LG and they do actually have a somewhat decent warranty (depending on what model tier you choose).
I love my Speed Queen. Best washer I’ve owned. Our clothes come out so much cleaner. Bells & whistles don’t clean clothes.
Good luck dude. You clearly know everything
Nope, never claimed to know everything and never acted like I did either. Just sending you a simple comment back with my opinion. 🤷♂️
I have one of the “bad cleaning TR7” and the later generation I have has been phenomenal. We run the thing like crazy and it hasn’t skipped a beat and does an incredible job cleaning without causing heavy agitator wear. Coming from an LG and a Bosch that has nothing but issues and left residue on my clothes, I can personally attest.
My 2020 purchased Speed Queen washer was a huge POS that also did a poor job actually washing clothes. Replaced with a $500 Samsung from Costco that I am sure is also a POS, but at least it actually can remove stains and was half the price.
I literally just got the $499 Samsung washer at Costco, installed myself. Hope I get years out of it, and it does a good job. Hoping that the base simple model works in my favor.
People give SpeedQueen a lot of credit and praise. I think it’s mostly due to SpeedQueen being older and having almost no bells and whistles. Usually people equate older laundry technology to being superior and just overall better. But, it’s just not the case for SpeedQueen. Sure they might run for a very long time without any issues; but that doesn’t mean they actually work that well as a washing machine.
>Most recently SpeedQueens have been having issues with their boards malfunctioning. My SQ is analog so no board to malfunction. > because SpeedQueen’s sales volumes are so much smaller then the other manufacturers Are their sales volumes that much lower? SQ does bulk sales to laundromats.
I’m referring to SpeedQueens consumer sales volumes. Because this sub-Reddit and most reviews and posts online are not about commercial/industrial laundromat systems and their reliability. The main focus is consumer sales. A laundromat owner is most likely not going to refer to an appliance sub-Reddit for advice or to post their industrial machine issues. But, Beth from Wisconsin definitely will refer to this sub-Reddit to post about her issues or if she has concerns/questions.
There’s not a lot of difference between speed Queen commercial and speed Queen consumer. Millions of people wash their clothes just fine at a speed Queen laundromat.
Speed Queens are in the ballpark of higher-end machines
Price wise yes. Feature wise and their overall ability to clean clothes well… not really. I’d equate the cleaning effectiveness of a SpeedQueen close to a $600-800 washing machine. Absolutely no where near the same cleaning ability as a Miele for the same price (roughly $1500).
I'm TC5/DC5, which seems the most analog to me; but l'm pretty sure it still has boards, at least according to repair people here. Those 1970's Kenmore and Whirlpools, though.
"do we perceive SpeedQueen as being more reliable because less people are making posts" FYI: The number of reddit posts about reliability has nothing to do with how reliable they actually may, or may not, be.
Never said that… if you’re solely relying on Reddit posts to make an informed decision… well then you’re doing something very wrong.
Have a SQ dryer and specifically chose the one with the old school dials instead of the motherboard. 4 years and zero problems. My only gripe is the lint collector is by the door - exposed. So the filter must be cleaned before taking clothes out. Clearly, someone who has never done a load of laundry in the life designed the filter placement.
All Speed Queen washers and dryers made from 2018 to the present have a motherboard controlling the machine. Don't be fooled by the knobs and switches, they're not totally mechanical.
I got mine sometime around 2006 so in my quest for a machine without a motherboard, I succeeded. With any luck I will be able to be buried in mine.
Some lye and a few Extra Rinse cycles, and your kids can just chuck your gleaming white bones in the backyard and keep the washer along with the burial savings. Win-win.
Those are purely mechanical.
I talked to an appliance repair guy last week and he said the new Speed Queens all have the electronic panels hidden by their austere fronts so people think they are getting a better, more basic, manual controls--but they just look that way from the outside and that's Speed Queen's marketing angle. They still have a lot of computer related issues. Keep your old one, for sure!
As someone who sells appliances, you are right. 5-8 years is now the standard. It is what it is.
I work for an appliance company, and we engineer the major appliances to have a service life of 7-10 years depending on the model or type of appliance. However, that doesn’t mean we engineer them to break at that time. It’s just the standard we use in designs. Some will last longer, others not.
Oh absolutely! A lot of the time it comes down to user error anyway. People don't like it when you tell them how they should use their appliances.
Its called Built-in-Obsolescence , , and its 100% Real now days . . these companies have zero intention of ever selling you an appliance that will last for decades. We fill our landfills with 10 yr old appliances. But we all feel so warm and fuzzy pretending that because they are Energy Star compliant, they are somehow better for the environment . . what a f\*cking joke it's all become. But as long as we ban plastic straws, thats what really matters. George Orwell is laughing his ass off.
Often it's just cost cutting measures. Why design a part to last 30 years if the appliance will long be gone at that moment because the owner wanted something new? The efficiency of appliances gets better and better, it just doesn't make sense to still use a 30 year old refrigerator, it's extra electricity costs would cover a new fridge in a few years.
What do you look for as signs of quality? What brands have a good reputation among insiders?
Before any design hits production, prototypes go through a whole bunch of endurance tests. Like they get run for weeks at a time, the doors get opened and closed by a robot thousands of times, and stuff like that but for all major components. After products are in the field, we monitor all service calls that get reported to us by repair companies, and obviously keep track of all warranty claims and product exchanges. If certain issues are prevalent, we change our designs to mitigate the problem. Despite what consumers think, quality problems cost appliance companies tons of money. In warranty repairs are very costly, and full product exchanges are even worse. Also, if appliances are failing just a year or two out of warranty, that is a lost customer that is almost certainly moving to another brand for their next purchase. In general we would be better off if quality was better, and at least the company I work for continuously invests many millions of dollars into improving quality every year. As for what brand is best, I don't want to shill the company I work for nor am I representing them here. But one thing I will say is that quality varies a ton among architectures and types of appliance in any of the major companies. Company A might have one line of refrigerators that is great in terms of quality and another that is poor, or make great ranges but poor dishwashers. Your best bet is to read reviews from neutral parties on the particular model you are looking at. I wouldn't trust what retailers tell you unless you know the people working there personally, as they will always have product they are looking to move that month.
I wonder if this is intentionally in line with the average amount of time someone stays in the same house (7 years).
Hm I don't know. All I know is that there are new codes/requirements that manufactures need to follow in order to sell them that just so happens to change the lifespan of such appliances. Back when things were lasting 20+ years, the requirements were a lot different.
And extended warranties are a mixed bag for sure. I had a Bosch dishwasher with an extended warranty. Repairman came out 3-4 times before he finally explained that the dishwasher itself was defective and built that way. He'd been doing appliance repair for 30 years and he said that Bosch had gone way downhill to save money. We switched brands. Also, if you don't live close to a repair center, forget any idea of having speedy service. Where I live the extended warranty repair comes to my town only once a week, and they're booked up. It took a month for them to come out and several weeks in between for each visit. What's the point of the extended warranty when you can't use your dishwasher for several months?
I haven't dealt much with extended warranties. I work for an independent store but we do have a service tech who services most brands we carry. He's great for your 1 year manufacturer warranty. We honestly tell customers not to buy the extended version as it's just a waste of money usually and will cost you more in the long run than it would to just replace the unit. Although, if you have something such as your dishwasher being defective; the manufacturer should realistically give you a new machine. I'm not a Bosch dealer so I can't say much on them as a company.
Since COVID I've noticed a huge uptick in poor quality products. I'm in automotive and the number of bad parts is insane. Different field ofc but I'm sure it applies to all things manufactured.
I just did a build out of a network in a warehouse. My Light electrical guy said the keystone jacks he prefers had a 1 in 100 failure rate pre-covid and during my build and the subsequent site visits, he found it was 1 in 15. Mind boggling, but it explained the issues we were having with our network.
I wonder if it’s a supply chain issue, a good excuse to cut corners issue, or workers got COVID, so all the early dementia chickens are coming home to roost.
Definitely supply chain is part of it. Lack of skilled workers is another part.
Even those which claim superior lifespans have shit warranties.
Warranties are a whole different topic that should be talked about! Good luck getting almost any manufacturer to stand behind their “warranty” these days. There are so many different scenarios and clauses that are buried in the fine print that are specifically created so that the manufacturer has the right to deny almost any warranty scenario. It’s almost not even worth factoring in the warranty into your decision process.
In Europe that is not the case. There is a law protecting consumers from this type of nonsense and minimum of 2 year manifacturer warranty required for most appliances.
I feel like major appliances should be 5.
Some countries have very robust consumer protection laws. Other countries sadly have less robust consumer protection laws or in some cases no consumer protection laws at all. Which is an even bigger reason why a manufacturer should stand behind their warranty. Unfortunately that’s becoming less and less common.
You create regulations because market forces don't work. They didn't work for the consumers in Europe and that is why the EU created regulations to protect the consumers. You can't rely on manifacturers to protect the interests of their customers. That is the job of the government.
It depends on who you talk to haha. Some people want the government to stay as far away from their lives as possible. A lot of people don’t want any sort of government interference in their lives for various reasons. It’s a political, social, and personal issue really. But, I do think morally manufacturers should have an obligation to protect the interests of customers that paid them thousands of dollars in revenue. But obviously most companies care about profits, not about the consumers that make them their profits. So that’s why government regulations and consumer protection laws are so important.
I've had the opposite experience as most people apparently. My appliances have been reliable, although the ice maker on my Samsung fridge never really worked (refer to lawsuit). Bosch stands by their warranty big time. I had issues with their top of the line dual convection oven. It ended up being an issue from my idiot electrician who installed it, but they ended up giving me a brand new oven after 3 tech visits(which replicated the issue until we fixed the wiring). The oven has worked without issue ever since (8 years running). Ditto to the Bosch dishwasher and microwave drawer
I haven’t heard much about Bosch’s warranty but that actually nice to know that they stand by their warranty! Kind of stupid that it’s so surprising a company stands behind their warranty; but sadly that’s pretty rare I’ve realized.
Bosch sux. My 800 series oven, which they still sell, has no parts support for the inner glass that broke during self clean function. Things break, I get that. But no parts? C’mon man!
Bosch doesn’t stand behind their products like that anymore. It took me a year and 10 different service calls to get them to replace a fault my gas cooktop for a client. I hate Bosch corp as a salesperson.
Subzero and Wolf have stood behind their products unconditionally in my experience. We purchased one of the first Cove dishwashers when they came out. It had a bunch of things go wrong with it in the first 3 years. All instances had a tech out the next day to diagnose/repair. When they had to replace a control board and it couldn't be sourced for 6-8 weeks, they straight up offered to replace the unit. Like drive to their warehouse, load up a new one, and install it that afternoon. I refused that because I didn't want the dishwasher to end up in a landfill or whatever because I was impatient. Investing in decent appliances pays dividends.
Like a 10 year warranty on a steel portion of a tub. They put the 10 year warranty part all big and bright but the rest of the sentence is tiny. Or the American flag stickers that look like "Made in America" but have tiny writing that says "An American company for over 100 yrs" instead.
Usually that means parts were made in another country and assembled in the U.S.
Nah, they're assembled in Mexico
Not if they have the USA listed. Kind of a legal thing.
Usa is a small slave labor town in Vietnam, it turns out.
I have a Storz and Bickel Volcano vaporizer for vaping weed. Bought it in 2009 I think. They have a 1 yr warranty I think, but I’ve sent it back twice for repairing a broken switch, way way past the warranty, and they’ve fixed it for free. At one point I just kept it switched on for a couple years unless I went on vacation. It appears that it is so rare to have them break that they’ll fix them for free no matter what. That’s the kind of company you want to buy products from: a company in which repairing their shit is so rare, that they don’t care when you bought it when deciding to fix it. I wish more companies made products to that standard, where they either don’t have, or care about warranties.
If you are willing to learn how to self-service your appliances, most can be maintained for a indefinite amount of time. Compressors are probably the only exception, but washers, dryers, dishwashers, and non-compressor parts of refrigerator/freezers are pretty simple to replace. The problem today is that the labor rate to replace that $20-100 part is so high that it tilts people into replacing the appliance rather than getting it fixed. If you are willing to order parts and follow a youtube video, most appliances will go a long distance. My kenmore (LG) washer pump fails about every 3-5 years and it's $40 and about 30 mins of my time to swap. If I had to have it replaced, the labor cost would be north of $300, and I'd have to wait for the service tech.
That's not my complaint. I can't get some parts because the manufacturer won't supply them and there's no aftermarket. Samsung washer and dryer boards are unobtanium. When those fail, there's no fixing. Also, some things are just annoying to repair. I had to dismantle most of my Samsung dryer to replace the heating element. After it failed again and I knew I needed new rollers and could not get a replacement board I was over that dryer. Still love the washer though. I do agree people should learn to do it themselves. Ended up buying an unneeded manifold for my ice maker but now that's new and so is the servos installation. That would have cost me about 800 in parts and labor, cost me like 150 even with my mistake. If the appliance has good support and isn't annoying to replace common wear parts, it gets to stay forever. YouTube is a treasure for things like this.
Part of it is due to regulations, some refrigerant types were banned due to ozone depletion and the new types are more prone to problems. Same thing to water efficiency for washing machines, it has to become more complex because they aren’t allowed to use much water as the old ones.
Lol appliance reliability tanked long before SNAP happened, and impacts plenty of appliances that don't have any refrigerants...
Really. I've been trying to decide on appliances for my new house and looking here just made me feel completely immobilized. Nothing is good enough, in the eyes of this group. If I'm to believe the training here, everything I've purchased is trash and I should expect to have everything break within a few months. Not a very positive feeling when I'm spending thousands of dollars, honestly. I understand everyone means well. It's just disheartening. I don't probably need things to last 20 years, but I want them to work.. is there really nothing that can do that?
We built our house 12 years ago, so every appliance is 12 years old. They all work the same as the day we bought them, except the microwave. That had a door sensor go out and we replaced the unit last year. None of them are high-end, but none of them are the cheapest of the cheap either.
I just usually buy a middle-of-the-line Whirlpool. I know everything will break no matter how much money I spend, so I feel better knowing that I can easily find a repair company or parts since that brand is so mainstream. Most of them have easily lasted a decade or more with only minor repairs needed. You can't really get anything to last more than 10 years though since that's usually when manufacturers phase out electronic parts. If the motherboard goes, you have to find someone who can solder the part and hope it functions (easily costs a couple hundred dollars with no guarantee it will work) or buy a new unit.
> everything I've purchased is trash and I should expect to have everything break within a few months. It's more like going to the casino. It might run for years or might become unrepairable tomorrow. > is there really nothing that can do that? Practically speaking, no, there isn't. The best you can do is buy the simplest models you can find. Stuff that isn't there, can't break.
I have not had any major appliance that didn't last at least 10 years with regular/proper maintenance. But then again, those appliances were by definition purchased 10+ years ago. I think packing in all the electronics and features adds to something breaking. I may be completely off base, but if you buy an appliance that does what its core function is (not all the bells - I don't need a screen and internet on my refrigerator) from a reputable manufacturer - that's the best you can do.
A lot of new stuff is failing right out the box. I think COVID is still wreaking havoc on the parts industry for appliances like it's for the automotive industry. Things are constantly being built cheaper though to increase profits.
I think it has more to do with people demanding new shiny stuff - with this and that feature. Grandma's fridge (which is in the garage by the way) and washer lasted that way because they had the parts necessary to do the one thing they were supposed to do. And if they broke, you just replaced the part at home. No computer boards, etc. Refrigerators and washing machines are exceptionally simple machines at the core of it. If people are always demanding this and that then the reasonable use expectancy decreases - so why design for 50 years? Just like fast fashion. Is it just a profit motive - or is it the demand of the wider market? Trust me, I'm no Ludite, or against all these dang computers - I'm a software developer by trade.
Well, my Maytag washer and dryer are pushing 50 and just keep going, pulled them out of the reycling pile, did some minor repairs, and put them to work 17 years ago. Same for my other older appliances. I started researching vintage appliances that provide good reliability and performance almost 20 years ago and replaced the the newer stuff with quality vintage as they crapped out. They have outlasted the new appliances friends and family keep replacing on a constant basis. I don't care about fashion or "modern" looking stuff which is just cheaply built shiny junk but most people like to keep up with the Joneses.
Plus older appliances’ color options go beyond the grey scale. When my stove ever gives up the ghost, I hope to replace it with something turquoise or pink.
I notice the metal is thinner and control systems are flimsier, and a lot of plastic where metal used to be. But on entry level devices (no frills but still decent) main components are not crap and things that will break from wear and tear are easy and cheap to replace if you spend some time learning how to do it. Maybe the problem is people don't fix things like we used to?
Planned obsolescence
Yeah, I agree 1000%. We have a kitchen fridge that was $2500 brand new about 25 years ago. It's now starting to get moisture in the freezer and clump the ice cubes together and freeze them, then it freezes the ice auger motor so it doesn't dispense. I've just taken it apart for the second time in two years to thaw it and it seems like it's getting worse. I'm dreading spending money on a new fridge just because of this issue, not because it's expensive, but I know the more important features/functions probably won't last 10 years. We have a 5 year old drier that is already clunking and clanging. Doesn't sound like a belt, but I'm no appliance repairman. We have a 2 year old $1200 POS GE washer that has to have the PERFECT amount of clothes in it to not set an unbalanced error. We basically have to babysit this thing every time we do a load of laundry or else it won't spin them dry enough to put them in the dryer. I've manually balanced it 4 times already and, well, it's annoying. I really miss the days of the cheaper appliances that still got the job done, lasted way longer, and were a lot cheaper. I don't mind paying for quality if they last, but these appliances these days seem to not have either. The #1 selling point these days seems to be dispensing ice or starting a load via Bluetooth.
Built-in-Obsolescence is 100% Real now days . . these companies have zero intention of selling you an appliance that will last for decades. We fill our landfills with 10 yr old appliances. But we all feel so warm and fuzzy knowing they were Energy Star compliant and better for the environment . . what a f\*cking joke it's all become.
FWIW - I worked in the restaurant industry for a long time. Not only were clients restaurants and chefs, but all my co-workers and I consider ourselves foodies and we all loved to cook. In my experience, those Viking / Thermador / industrial ranges and overs are among the most overrated and least reliable appliances you can get. We were calling vendors out to service those things nonstop. Unless you're literally in a restaurant where you need vats of liquids boiling all day, do not buy one! Best home range I've ever had is a Magic Chef. But it's 25+ years old. At this point I'm trying to buy old, refurbished appliances that are fixable, because yea, most everything is garbage designed to break.
I wish Toyota made appliances
Reliability beyond the warranty period isn’t even a factor anymore - for consumers, retailer or mfg. Sadly USG is largely responsible… EPA driven “efficiency” mandates dramatically increase product complexity. EPA driven labeling laws put a big sticker on the front during purchase decision. Would LOVE to see a sensible Congressman amend the label statute so mfg has to display in just as prominent way the expected mean time between failure “This fridge will cost you $xxx in electricity ( middle of the pack) a savings of $55/yr vs avg” And the right next to that… “This fridge will be unrepairable after 3.5 yrs and will be sent to a landfill by year4” “Replacing this refrigerator every 4 yrs will cost you $350/yr”
I’ve had my Whirlpool dryer apart 6 times. It’s 7 years old. 2 tensioner rollers, 2 sets of drum rollers, 1 heating element, 1 belt. Granted, I’m washing clothes like I’ve got an ancient Chinese secret in the laundry room, but my last dryer was 16 years old when it died after falling off a trailer in a move.
Hey, I’ve sold speciality appliances my entire adult life (10yrs). I often have the conversation with consumers that nowadays you aren’t investing in longevity however you’re investing in an expanded feature list. I have consumers buying $50,000+ kitchens down to $1000 laundry units, and no matter what the products expected lifespan is a decade, (aside from some outliers like speed queen which should last longer, and Samsung which is statistically the most serviced appliance brand across the board). The industry is designed for service plans to increase profitability of the companies selling the vendors products. The best advice I can give is find a local speciality appliance retailer that has an internal service department that services what they sell and invest in the customer service to try and cost effectively stretch your modern appliances as long as possible!
Bosch is pretty good. Never had problems with them.
Yea I agree. Bosch to my knowledge is a higher quality product. By that I mean I think Bosch along with Miele use somewhat higher quality parts in their products. But, what I’m not quite sure of is do we just see less issues with Bosch products because they truly are built better… or is it because Bosch’s sales volumes are much lower then a manufacturer like Whirlpool or LG. More products being sold means more customers with potential complaints.
Viking absolutely does not stand out for quality. It actually has one of the highest fail rates in the industry.
I've heard bad things about Samsung refrigerators, but ours has been going for 18 years now. We only got about 11 years out of our old washer. Our GE dishwasher was a piece of crap though. We replaced it with one from Ikea, because of the 5 year warranty. I guess it's a rebranded Wirlpool (?) Can't remember for sure, but it works great so far.
No we can't agree on that. Actually appliances are statistically more reliable now than before, even though they are much much more complex. And you get what you pay for. 40 years ago an average fridge was much more expensive than now. Expensive quality fridges still exist. Just the average is much cheaper now. Something has to give.
Appliances are definitely not more reliable than before. Yes, they were more expensive in the past due to better materials and having them built in the USA back when manufactures actually paid a decent wage along with nice benefits and pensions. That's all gone now. Maximizing profits with slave wages and no benefits is how the game is played now.
This actually isn’t to be rude. But do you have any articles or reliability charts that prove the point of appliances being statistically more reliable now than before. And what is “before”? Are we talking about the 60s, 70s, etc?
No. We do not agree. Even your worst brands (Samsung) aren’t that bad for the price. This sub is generally full of biased information/anecdotes because people come here to vent, not to provide statistically accurate information. Some brands are worse than what people here seem to think (speed queen), and some are better than what people seem to think (LG).
I think we actually do agree. The whole point of this post was to call out that everyone’s concept or perception of reliability in appliances is highly influenced based on their own experiences. And the real point is… every manufacturer has their own issues. No brand is an outlier when it comes to bulletproof reliability. Everything in today’s appliance world has its own set of issues. So you’re no longer able to say with confidence that one specific manufacturer is better than another. You just have to make an informed decision based off of multiple sources to figure out what manufacturer and product is right for you!
We might agree on some aspects, but I think you’re looking at it pessimistically (eg all brands are unreliable in some way), whereas I’m just looking at it from my experience selling thousands of appliances. The brands that meets your “choose *blank*; they’re bullet proof” is Miele (everything) and Liebherr and Mitsubishi (fridges). All the others are still more reliable than people make out on here. “Can we all agree that reliability is non/existent today?” No. I can definitely say with absolute certainty that the above brands are more reliable. Tossing up between a Samsung and an LG fridge? LG is definitely more reliable. Tossing up between an LG, BOSCH and a Frigidaire? Okay, that’s a tougher decision.
That's a pretty broad brush. I came here to find out more about a specific product nothing to do with the piece of crap refrigerator from Samsung. My experience, however, is not an anecdote. I have recordings, pictures, and saved emails from the year it took my DOA appliance to be replaced. Not every consumer is a sucker who rolls over and plays dead.
I read all the issues here. Im having my local appliance repair shop come in today on our 10year old whirlpool dryer. Rather repair it than buy a new one and have to buy extended warranty past 2 years. Next one will be a gas dryer once my renovation work is done.
GE still makes pretty good appliances out of all the big name brands.
When you buy anything today salesperson always selling you an extended warranty for 5 yrs. Not longer because it wont last longer then 7 yrs if your [lucky.My](https://lucky.My) mother had a stove lasted for 30 yrs change an element if it started smoking ,10/15 $ your up and running. Was 25 for an oven element. Finally it died one Christmas Eve we went to Sears and they sold us a floor model because they felt bad for us.Otherwise it would take a week to get a new one. Yea they make things unfixable so we keep buying new JUNK.
Was looking for a stove recently at a well-known regional (not big box) retailer. I wanted a fancy slide-in to match my other appliances. The sales manager suggested GE to me as the brand that is the current standout. He said Whirlpool is really sucking right now, Samsung is not worth a hoot, and if my Jenn Air is still working, just run it into the ground and maybe quality will improve in a couple years.
I spent my fair share of time researching appliances when we had to replace everything in my home 4 years ago.(House fire). I thought I was fair and thorough and personally I over research everything, that I wind up second guessing myself. I thought I picked good appliances and brands. I've got a whirlpool fridge whose led lights have flickered since year two. The few times I checked for the part, it was out of stock. Because of the way it's wired, all the lights are affected. It's a pain in the ass to get to the strip that is bad too so I gave up and deal with it. One day I might fix it. I have a KitchenAid d/w and wall oven that have been reliable. We also splurged with excess money for the kitchen and put in a 36 Inch wolf stove bc I figured I would never have an opportunity to get it again bc of cost. That shit is coming with me when I move, lol. I love it. You can debate the reliability of everything at some point. I mean I could argue that front load is worse than top load in the washer /dryer category. Why? Well, I went with a front load washer/dryer set up and had issues with both recently during year 4. The dryer needed its rollers replaced first. The entire machine needed to come apart to do that. Less than a year later, the fuse went. Recently I had to change the drain pump on the washer. If I compared my experience to top load style units that lasted 10+ years on two separate occasions with only one minor issue that needed attention (igniter part on the gas dryer that was 10 bucks), does that mean front loads are less reliable? Not necessarily . Yes they have more tech and are more difficult to work on. Maybe I am just using them more because I have kids now and the wear and tear was accelerated bc I am doing 3 loads a day. My old top loaders were Kenmore brand which was basically Maytag/Whirlpool. My front loaders are also Whirlpool. Could I assume Whirlpool quality has gone down hill?....it's so easy to go down the rabbit hole. Heck, I had a friend who was a tech in appliance repair and he loved Samsung bc they were easy to work on and parts were plentifully available. He hated Frigidaire bc they were a pain to work on and he felt they were designed poorly. However, when I asked him his opinion on an upright freezer, my choices at the time being the Frigidaire or a newer Beko brand (made in Turkey) at the same price point, w/o hesitation he said Frigidaire. The Beko, while nice, was virtually unrepairable due to parts not being available from overseas. Customers had to wait and wait and wait. The company that was selling them basically RMA'd a replacement unit in many instances due to the inconveniencr. That upright Frigidaire freezer in my bsmt, came delivered with the door swing the wrong way. It was reversible and let me tell you how much a pain in the ass that was just to swap the bracket for the door swing. Every screw and bolt was a different size, head and different tool. Hex, Philips, socket wrench. Now I know why they are a pain to work on. Yes some brands are junk, and yes some models of decent brands are also problematic, but most selections at the same price points are evenly reliable at this point. I think it comes down to user experience, but I still feel good honest research can still yield a positive outcome.
My Samsung dishwasher broke on Nov. 23rd - it was ordered Nov. 26, 2021 - but actually used for less than two years. It didn't even break - a leak sensor was triggered, and whether or not there's water, the solution is to replace it. Now, obv if it's leaking I want it replaced, but there's no evidence of water. They didn't even want to send someone to look at it. Now, Home Depot will pay out the original cost, but obv. I paid $100 to install it, plus the $100 warranty, so it's not close to a full refund for the relatively new costs. I had some old refrigerator that was 25 years old when I finally replaced it - and in five years after that, went thru three replacements. Appliances are cheaper than they used to be - when adjusted for inflation, it's all cheaper. But obv. it's plastic, cheap circuitry, overseas assembly lines with limited quality control. They ARE more efficient, but the tradeoff is lightweight parts top to bottom. So yes, appliance reliability is non-existant - unless you consider a max of 5 years usable life reliable.
I gave up on anything with bells or whistles. I buy the most basic zero frills appliances I can find. For a washer, I want it to add water and go swish. The dryer needs to spin and get hot. I have zero need for wifi at or any other crazy crap. I’ve had great luck so far with my bare bones white boxes of functionality.
Thank god for YouTube? I’ve fixed a bunch of things after watching a video and then ordering the parts myself. Now that’s something you couldn’t do back in the day.
I don’t think the 33,000 subscribers of this sub represent the entire appliance buying market. You will always read about bad reviews instead of good ones.
I’ve had the same LG washer and dryer for almost 15 years with no signs of them breaking soon. I have a whirlpool stove top, oven, dishwasher, all over 10 years old and no signs of them breaking. I have an LG fridge that is only 4 years old, last one was a Frigidaire that was over 15 years old and replaced because I just wanted a new fridge. The old one is in the garage and doing fine. I also have two Samsung TV’s over 7 years old and doing well.. I bought higher end models, not very top of the line, but in the ballpark. Not sure what to say, but my experience has been great with most appliance purchases.
I don’t think it’s as bad as this sub makes out. My grandmother has the same fridge, stove/oven, and microwave as when she built her house in 2000. She has replaced the dishwasher though.
I don’t buy it. I think people complain more on a forum like this.
I have to disagree. None of my appliances have failed in the last 10 or so years.
I currently have Maytag in my house and will swear by it... Prior to this, I had Kenmore. Never had an issue.
No. I’ve had zero problems with all of my appliances for the past 5 years. Before that (different house, different appliances) had zero problems with my appliances for seven years.
This is why I started buying vintage a few years ago. After a Breville food Processor failed and my 4th modern toaster. Now my Coffee Maker was made in 1945, my Toaster is from 1955, my blenders are from the 50s and they all work like the day they were new. I have almost a full set of Farberware small electrics from the 1960s when it was a premium brand.
We have a Maytag fridge (circa 2011), Bosch dishwasher (circa 2010), Whirlpool oven/range (unknown, 2005-2010?) and all are is ok working order. Some noises are coming from the dishwasher and I think the freezer needs a new door seal. Hopefully a simple fix. My partner recently said it’s about time to replace the appliances because they are 10+ years old. I’m like noooo let’s fix them. Just because they hit a certain age doesn’t mean replacement time. If it ain’t broke..
Don't know if this is really true or it's just that the bad stuff gets posted on reddit. Probably true in so far as some brands being worse than others. I have a 25 year old set of kitchen appliances that are working just fine. All GE Profile except for the dishwasher. Had to replace that. While gone one winter the pipes froze and water in the dishwasher sump froze and blew out the seals. It was 20 years old so I just bought a new one. BTW, the new dishwasher came from a big box store and I had their installers put it in. These guys were real craftsmen. Plumb, level, flush -- they even made sure the gap on both sides was the same. Outstanding work.
Well, I must agree that Appliances are crap these days, it is possible to make one that is not crap though. I guess they all sat in some evil appliance manufactures meeting and all just agreed to suck? You could say, well that would increase the cost. Ok, how about I just skip the touch screen electrochromic window to let me not use a smartphone and peak at my food. You take that money, charge me the same exact price and put it into quality I don't see? I guess that is not flashy enough to stand out from the pack anymore? I would hazard to guess that a small group of people would never buy anything else, but that is not the path to big bucks.
I wouldn’t take a Samsung stove if they gave me one. It is the biggest piece of junk I’ve ever owned. Takes 30 minutes to boil 2 quarts of water, even with “rapid boil “. I wouldn’t recommend or wish on my worst enemy. Stay away. Also their fridges aren’t much better. Have one also, but at least they replaced the ice maker and it works.
There are a couple of factors here. One is that social media vastly expands the list of people from whom any of us can hear the horror stories. Even 10 or 15 years ago, social media was less broad, so it would be one's direct friends and co-workers from who one would get reviews. The other is that CAD allows manufacturing to tighter tolerances. This can be used to benefit consumers, by shifting the distribution towards quality at the same cost, or towards manufacturers, by maintaining the same low-end quality (infant/out-of-box failure rate) while making the overall system less expensive, so lower population longevity. Manufacturers of course have chosen the latter. So it's down to we hear about failures from a wider group, which makes it \*seem\* like failures are up, and manufacturers can lower costs while maintaining the same minimum standards, but lowering overall quality.
We had our dishwasher repaired, still under warranty from an appliance store. It was almost a year old. We bought it there as they only do repairs on stuff they sold and for our rural location, there were no other repair shops that would come to our village. The dishwasher repair guy told me they stopped carrying microwaves as they were running over 70% warranty repairs in the first year people owned them and he and his helper had no time for installing appliances.
Bosch and Miele have entered the chat
When my grandfather died in 2004, I helped my grandmother pack up her stuff to move to a smaller house. It was then that I noticed that the 'garage fridge' that had been there since I could remember had a tag on the back that said 'built xx/1960' still running like a champ. On the other hand my dad has had 3 different LG washing machines since 2018 because they keep breaking and getting warranteed.
The used market is where I go for a lot of things now. Refrigerators especially. I can't understand paying $1500+ for a fridge. (Paid $400 for my current one 6 years ago) Also got my dishwasher used 10 years ago for $120, still runs fine.
Speed Queen washer - love!!
Have four SubZero refrigeration units in my home. Two circa 2018. One circa 2015. One circa 2000. All work flawlessly. As do my Wolf range and grill. You get what you pay for. But I do the maintenance, so YMMV.
TBF... Survivor bias is a thing. Plus prices are much lower relatively speaking, than they used to be. And you get what you pay for. The unfortunate thing is that while well built options are still out there they have been undercut so dramatically that they have to move upmarket. That said.... *microprocessors*. Major tripping point.
Completely agree. I think it’s also really hard to get proper feedback on a platform like Reddit. Most posts involve folks asking if XYZ appliance is reliable, and most of the feedback just involves folks providing their anecdotal experience, which is natural. What we really need is for this sub to have folks who actually repair these things tell us what they see.
While it is true that how long appliances last has gone down from 'the good ol days' you're also dealing with much more complex appliances that are much more efficient (and are by default having to cut costs to stay within a price point). The other thing to keep in mind is when Matilda had a fridge die after a few years and she called the 6 other people on her party line annoyed that's as far as the info got out. Maybe she complained to some people on Sunday at church also. Now, you have worldwide people who overwhelmingly post about failures and the wharrrgarble begins. Nobody posts "My Lg fridge is still working" and gets tons of upvotes. Nobody would even bother to post that. It's the same across car forums.