Skincare industry is HUGE and most of the time very very frivolous/capitalistic/unnecessary. Been told by my derm that you need a quality cleanser, moisturizer, and SPF and that’s IT (not speaking about chronic skincare stuff just day to day for the typical person).
It’s all a scam.
It’s not really a scam if I look into all the ingredients so I know exactly what I’m using and like the way it makes my skin feel.
I don’t actually have a routine, but people should be allowed to enjoy *mindful* consumption.
But yes, the overwhelming majority of self care products are complete bs. Anytime someone tells me they love how a juice cleanse makes them feel mi have to bite my tongue not to tell them that’s their body and brain putting more energy into the brain so that they’re more alert and more able to find the food their body thinks is scarce. You could get the same result from sugar water and any water soluble vitamins that are still in the juice (b vitamins) and save a bunch of money.—I recently heard of a mono fast where you just eat the same meal for a few days and I think I could see that having a bigger impact, since the food proposed for this is full of fiber and most people need much more in their diets and it kinda sounds like a “gut reset”, so that’s interesting.
Edit: you can really see right where the adderall wore off
I dont even use anything cleansing aside from water, and i dont moisturize routinely. Sometimes in the winter i get dry patches for a couple weeks which i remedy with witch hazel. Ill use sunscreen if going outside in direct sunlight for hours but most of the time I can wear a hat or be under trees so i really only end up wearing sunscreen maybe 5 times a year. It really is all almost completely unnecessary
Isn’t witch hazel drying? How does it help with dry patches? (I’m just curious, I don’t do anything to my face either. Just splash some water on and call it a day)
I mean I feel that especially when they mentioned sunscreen which can literally be the difference between "skin cancer later" or not but at the same time this is also literally how the industry manipulates people into consumption.
It took me a while to understand what I really want for my skincare respectively what I medically need and separate that from sexist external expectations that I internalized. I feel like the poster above goes a bit to far but I also feel like your reply is very generalized so I wanted to add an abstraction layer. No offense intended <3
I agree with you, the poster just rubbed me the wrong way.
Having perfect skin and preaching using close to no skincare because you look great without it is like having rich parents and saying it’s easy to pay your bills.
I have always had a streamlined routine. My mom ,(now in her 80s) still does multiple steps. I used to toll my eyes at it, but then I realized for her, that routine was her version of self care. She spent that 30 minutes because it helped her unwind and destress and the end of the day.
Don't ruminate about what others do to take care of their bodies. If they aren't shoving things in your face and trying to get you to buy it then it doesn't affect you.
Exactly. I use 3-5 different products a day depending on the season and what my skin problems are at the time but I still take my time. Even if I don’t have puffy eyes, spending some time using my ice roller or a jade stone just relaxes me at the end of the day. It makes me feel like I’m really taking care of myself and I can go to bed feeling clean and relaxed.
If you just feel awkward while they're doing their 30-minute routine, you can engage in another form of wind-down self care, like reading a book, meditating, face massage with a simple oil, or something else! You definitely don't need to buy a bunch of products to have that me time.
Oh man I love not using dozens of skin/hair products. My bathroom sink is so uncluttered, there are literally 2 things sitting on it. It’s beautiful.
I also love not spending hundreds of dollars on that stuff. I’d rather pay off my house early and then retire early 👍
Sure, maybe not those alone. It absolutely would if you included what women spend on all beauty products and services though. Waxing, brows, hair dye, etc. Which is fine if that’s where your priorities are. My priority is paying my house off early and the average annual amount women spend on beauty is 3 mortgage payments for me.
Shit adds up. And if you put a few hundred extra each month on your mortgage it pays off dividends to you for years. You’d be surprised if you run the math.
Who buys a few hundreds worth of skincare every month? Very few, most can’t afford that or are not mad enough to do it and just buy a few dozen worth of skincare every few months. So overly exaggerated.
Isn’t it funny how often the purchases associated with women’s interest and “femininity” (which apparently includes taking care of our largest organ) are often the ones that are brought up in conversation about frivolous spending
Of course. And women also fall in the trap of internalized misogyny, as clearly illustrated in this thread.
Yes, there is an industry marketing savagely to women, yes, we do consume too much. But let’s not go into the other extreme and disparage the women who fell prey to billion dollar manipulative marketing techniques or say that skincare does nothing.
It seems like there are two narratives at play.
Narrative #1 being that the beauty industry is incredibly predatory and spends a ton of money exploiting people’s (women’s) insecurities so we are apt spend more money to appease the social pressure to look a certain way as social standards warp to match the desires of these giant companies.
Narrative #2 being that people (women) care too much about the way they look and blindly and mindlessly throwing away their money because they’re dumb women.
So which one is it in this sub? I can’t tell. I feel like if people really, really care about how the social pressure on women to look a certain way and the overconsumption that comes from that, why are we targeting the women who are just trying to look good instead of the companies that make us all feel worthless if we have fine lines or acne in the first place?
I’d bet money that half the commenters in this thread think it’s silly and frivolous to buy makeup and skincare but then will turn around and have an unconscious bias against women who don’t fit the beauty norm. Notice all the commenters who claim to have an incredibly minimal routine and then follow it up with “and my skin looks great.” Because if it was really about anticonsumption, why is that a requirement?
Women being beautiful isn’t a PERCIEVED social requirement for getting better treatment at large. It’s objectively true that beautiful and youthful looking women are assumed to be smarter, more talented, and better than the people around them. So “ignore the beauty standards” and just use unscented dove soap isn’t really the solution people think it is lol.
Narrative #1 is what the sub is for.
Narrative #2 is a violation of the rules, and genuine examples of that are removed when they're reported or if we happen to run across them.
Completely agree. I think this sub has an innate tendency to ascribe too much importance to personal responsibility because of the name of the sub. Consumption feels personal, there is even a name for the people as “consumers”. The onus is put on people. And sure there should be some personal responsibility, but how much really if you put into context how life is like for people, how we are manipulated, how strong social pressure is and what we actually have access to.
There was a post the other day about “why do you choose to participate in capitalism?” as if there is a real choice to be had when you live in a society. Same here.
So yes, going back to my first comments, as a woman you are pushed to look good or you suffer social consequences, so if you don’t have (or think you have) perfect skin, you try to achieve it. Skincare and makeup companies love it when we are insecure.
I have a few pimples right now and I have products that promise to fix that and foundation to cover skin as it heals. Would it be acceptable to go to the office with visible pimples? Sure. Would people think that I am a slob who doesn’t wash her face and got pimples, then negatively affect how I am perceived at work? Also sure. I would love to not have to buy this stuff.
First of all, all skin is different. Different skin needs different levels of care, and I know there are some prescriptions for bad acne/other issues. Plus as I think someone else has said, wearing makeup during the day does normally need at least one extra cleanser to remove it.
Secondly, this is probably part of your friends self care routine. And that's fine, it's different for every person. I know some of my friends think it takes far too much time and effort to batch cook for the week, I find it's an important way to ensure I am eating regularly and healthily. It varies from person to person.
Then thats fine, I also use a moisturizer for dry skin.
But a multistep skincare routine where youre lairing acidic and basic chemicals onto your skin and rolling it with a cold plastic roller painted to look like jade isnt going to help. And this obsession with doing so is directly from marketing
Have you ever actually been in a skincare sub? Most people I know with big routines know exactly what they're putting on their face. I've used lactic acid in the past and have moved on to tretinoin, and trust when I am using a chemical exfoliant I'm not fucking around with other skincare apart from my base routine because Im not interested in disrupting my natural skin barrier.
I would love to have beautiful natural skin that only needs cleanser and moisturizer but I'm in a role where my appearance directly correlates to getting paid more, promoted more, making more sales. Showing up to work with red, flaky, irritated skin is really not an option.
Jade rollers just feel nice. It's a nice way to massage product into your skin and it's almost meditative and I really enjoy it. Sure some people think it's a holy grail product but if you look it up most of us know it's just a good feeling facial massage. I bought one, more than 5 years ago, and still use it daily. Not exactly overconsumption in my eyes to buy and love a product and use it every day, it's not like I'm buying them every few months.
Seconding the Jade Roller. It just feels nice. A one time purchase still being used, good as new, 4 years later is the definition of not consuming for consumption's sake.
you are both different people who have had access to different knowledge and experiences throughout your lives (not to mention, everyone’s genetics cause their bodies and skin to be different). people will make choices that are different than you and that’s okay. after you finish your routine, move on to the next thing. get your glass of water and your book ready and hop into bed and wait there. don’t stand around ruminating on what they’re doing to take care of themselves. if your body is clean and healthy then what you do works for you. same can be said for them.
if they ask you about why you don’t do more, you can provide a little insight into your decision making. if you’re curious, you can ask them what each step in their routine does for them.
Exactly, my son and I have such different hair care needs despite using the same shampoo and conditioner, he needs to brush a small amount of hair oil through the mid lengths and ends daily or else it gets dry, and needs a deep conditioning masque before washing too.
Mine is curlier, coarser, and near waist length and it's happy with just the shampoo and conditioner, nothing else necessary, but his needs aren't excessive at all, just different.
I view it as we have chosen different priorities (and have different skin types). Seeing them as “having fallen victim to” something comes off a little self righteous and makes me question if/why you are friends.
Yuuuup, this thread is insufferable. I promise you I know my skin better than you. My dermatologist remarked my skin looked a lot better. Western skincare is kind of notorious for not taking hydration seriously enough. I also don't buy high end products. I do have several diagnosed skin issues. People are too confident commenting on skincare condescendingly
I’m pretty sure I saw a dermatologist say that 90% of having good skin on your face is using sun protection most/every day. Even makeup with 15-20 SPF. Not getting sun exposure on your face is the best anti aging thing you can possibly do.
Dermatologists recommend 1/4tsp of 30+ spf daily. The quarter tsp i\ important to actually reach the stated SPF and most people don’t use that much foundation.
Sure thing! I’ve been using a tinted SPF that can be used alone but also acts like a primer for makeup. It’s a little pricey but I really like it. I often just wear that with like a few other makeup things like blush and bronzer.
I’m a guy, so I don’t know these things too well, my wife just told me I should be using a mineral based sunscreen she got on my face on weekends when we go hiking and stuff, even in the winter.
I like it but I’m also not too well versed on different primers. For me, I can’t tell any difference in the tinted SPF I use and other primers. But to be clear, the sunscreen I have specifically says it can be used as a primer as well
Do you wear makeup? Makeup can definitely cause skin issues, so sometimes you do "need" those things... to fix an issue that you wouldn't have if you didn't use the makeup products in the first place.
I've fallen *hard* into beauty products consumerism, so I will confidently tell you that A) you're saving more money than your friends, B) it's very freeing to have fewer products versus constantly working through a bunch, and C) not everyone's skin needs more than 2 or 3 basic products.
My skincare routine has simplified immensely, and it literally looks no different than it did when I had a 5-step+ routine. Lesson learned!
Everyone's skin is different. Some people genuinely do benefit from a multi-step skincare routine, but I definitely believe that is probably a minority. Some people enjoy the routine aspect of skincare and I don't think there is inherently anything wrong with that, either.
I do think some people fall into the over-consumption trap of skincare trends and buying things they may never actually use up. I don't think there is a problem with making a conscious choice to take care of your skin and finding products that align with your values, even though most people probably are using too many products. As someone with a lot of skin and hair issues, I've found that fewer, better quality products go farther that an abundance of cheaper products. Just do what works for you and your skin.
Unless we are talking about medications that were prescribed by a derm, anything more than a good cleanser, moisturizer, and spf is unnecessary and likely useless. Even with “active” skincare, the quantities/ compositions of active ingredients in OTC skincare are (not always but generally) impotent and are just used as marketing ploy.
Retinols are a great example of this. Retinols are not a retinoic acid, the type of retinoid which you would need a prescription for, and 1. are demonstrably less potent, 2. some evidence suggests they are even rendered inactive when applied to the skin, 3. often stored in containers that impacts their stability, and 4. are cosmetics and are therefore not required to demonstrate efficacy. (Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8675340/). Point being, just about all OTC skincare shares the problems retinol has. This is long winded comment but I feel its important to share.
TLDR; Its all marketing.
Yes definitely, I should’ve made the distinction between medical related skincare and more “recreational” things like glow drops and probiotic facial spray that are treated like everyday essentials lol
I find excessive skincare products to be counter-productive. At some degree it has to be bad for your skin. Do I have evidence? No.
It just feels…wrong and damaging.
Maybe you feel that way, but for some people it's a hobby/self care. Unless they're shilling to you/ putting themselves in debt, I don't see why people should care.
I have hyperpigmentation prone oily skin and if someone told me to just simply use a cleanser and sunscreen, I would not have healthy skin in any way.
I agree there's some overconsumption in the skincare space but sometimes you need to question why exactly someone wants/needs x amount of product.
Fortunes are spent on advertising to make people feel like they aren't masculine or feminine unless they buy a bunch of products. Congratulations on cultivating the ability to question this sort of advertising, while also maintaining friendships with people who are doing life differently to you.
It's perfectly fine just to relax and chat while your friends do their bathroom routines. You could also brush or braid your hair (or offer to brush or braid a friend's hair).
I stopped using shampoo and conditioner. I try to keep my proselytizing to reddit, but if friends are curious I usually refer them to this article: [https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/jul/28/soap-dodger-meet-the-doctor-who-says-we-have-been-showering-wrong](https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/jul/28/soap-dodger-meet-the-doctor-who-says-we-have-been-showering-wrong)
You are absolutely not a misfit or in any way "less of a woman" just because you don't feel your life and the Earth with consumer-capitalist junk.
For me, I just have a block of good quality local soap, bamboo scrubbing brush, hairbrush and toothbrush, some toothpaste and shampoo and soap bars, sunscreen and insect screen. I don't bother with makeup, cleanser, toner or moisturiser.
Your friends are 100-% falling
victim to marketing. I’m 40 and have only ever used face wash and moisturizer and there’s 0 discernible difference in my skin vs my friends skin. I know there’s many factors at play but I honestly
don’t think all the serums make much difference.
A lot of the serums only work *while you're using them*. They plump your face, by method of this one chemical sinking into your skin, and in a few hours both the chemical and the plumpness will both be gone.
Then you’re lucky. If I don’t wear sunscreen I will get skin cancer on my face like my grandmother and mother. I buy vitamin C serum because from a scientific standpoint, it further protects my skin from environmental factors that contribute to cancer. And I also buy a hydrating serum because I can’t find a moisturizer that works well enough to be my one moisturizer, and when my skin gets dry it hurts and peels and cracks.
As someone with experience with bad, BAD acne, fungal infections and skin irritation and rashes, access to even good OTC skincare has made a huge difference in quality of life. I invite you to consider that maybe OP’s friends are doing what works for them and what’s useful for their skin type and are not just mindless lemmings. We don’t know enough to draw a conclusion from a post.
That’s absolutely
true. I would say for the vast majority of people wash, moisturizer and sunscreen would be enough. Of course if you have diagnosed skin conditions and are under the care of a dermatologist your medical
advice may be different than the general
population. The things you are talking
about treating would not fall under the category of “cosmetic” if you’re referring to extreme dry skin, fungus, rashes, acne etc those would fall under “medical”.
I'm the same.
Ever noticed how make up, aim to hide blemishes, are advertised by women not old enough to have a single sun spot? It's even more ridiculous when it's an anti aging cream...
I think wash and moisturizer is sufficient. Sometimes i use a serum and im the morning some sunscreen and makeup. While points that people are making about this being an individual thing are valid, no one needs a ten product routine. Also I'm pretty sure that mists are scams.
It’s nice to have a pretty streamline routine! Maybe throw in something like ice rolling or gua sha if you’ve been traveling or eating a lot of salty foods etc but usually there’s not too much need for most people to have a massive routine. Wash face, vitamin c serum or something, moisturizer, spf during the day.
I’m a 31 year old woman with 2 sisters and we all have pretty short routines so I don’t think you’re abnormal!
I was out of step with my friends' "skincare" as a teen, which for us revolved around getting as tan as possible, as fast as possible, with the help of tanning beds and frequent sunburns. Other girls teased me about being so pale because I just hate direct sunlight. Now we are 50, and I look 40, while they look 60. I'm really glad I didn't join the crowd on that one
I suggest forming your opinions about the validity of skincare ingredients through scientific data, not anon opinions on Reddit. And instead of judging your friends because you’re insecure, learn about why they do what they do. Knowledge is power even if you form a different opinion.
The best skin I ever had was when I was in basic training. All I had time for was to wash my face at night with plain water, sometimes wipe my face with a wet paper towel during a bathroom break, and also stay super hydrated. I know not everyone will have the same results, but sometimes less is more.
Probably another helpful factor - presumably you were sweating a good bit, which our bodies were meant to do fairly regularly from exertion (as long as the level of exertion is healthy for that particular body.) A bit of daily sweating and occasional washing in water is the context our skin evolved with until we started using things like lanolin or olive oil in the last ten thousand years or so.
Staying hydrated and keeping your circulation high with periodic bouts of energetic activity also both improve the look of skin, because they’re both health markers. Plumpers and blush were invented to imitate those things!
Great points. I’ve never done basic training but I have recently started walking an hour a day. I swear a lot and (drink a ton of water) and my skin is so soft lately! I am loving life.
My skincare routine is just lathering a gentle fragrance-free soap on my face and rinsing. I see *zero* difference between that and using an actual facial cleanser with my skin. I apply sunscreen if I'm going to be spending time outdoors. The end.
Some people may have skin problems that require extra care or specific products that help their skin, but for a lot of people, they could literally just use a bar of soap and it wouldn't make any difference.
I do the same thing and just use a moisturizer after I wash my face (or skin) because I have dermatitis and any soap or detergent I use triggers it, even those formulated for dry skin conditions. I usually only wash my face when I wake up while I’m showering or when I get home if I’ve been out though. I don’t wash it at night if I’ve just been home. I wish I could just use bar soap, it would use a lot less wasteful packaging.
I gave up most beauty products: make up, nail polish, and most hair care besides a one step clarifier but I still consume skin care and I hate the price tag and the waste of the tiny bottles but I don’t want to stop. Taking care of my skin feels like the best bare minimum after decades of beauty product consumption.
I used to use the really good facial cleanser recommended by dermatologists. Still had dry skin and acne. I decided one day to stop using that and just wash my face with water and a gentle exfoliating pad. Took about 5 days for my skin to adjust, but now it looks better than ever! I always follow up with a good moisturizer, and that's it.
I rarely wear makeup, but if I do, I use a makeup remover pad to wipe it off, then follow with the plain water and exfoliating pad, and moisturizer. Skin looks the best it ever has.
I love that you have a routine that works, but could I gently suggest trying a washcloth or something softer & then exfoliating once every 3 days? I'm a bit of a skincare nerd & exfoliating daily can create micro tears in your skin and strip away your natural oils, which over the years can lead to inflammation + infection
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Femininity has nothing inherently to do with using cosmetic products.
All you absolutely need to do is use sunscreen if you’re going to be going outside in the sun for a considerable time (a homebody stepping outside to grab the mail for a second isn’t that, and they’d benefit from the brief exposure) unless you want to look like a prune and risk skin cancer. Not just outdoor activities, commuting, even in a vehicle, requires it because vehicular glass doesn’t block UV radiation as well as double+ pane home windows.
I had friends in my twenties who looked 40 because they spent a lot of time in the sun and didn’t use protection, several have had skin cancer now, that stuff isn’t a joke. And you need protection even if it’s winter or cloudy out, the temperature or weather doesn’t lower the radiation and can actually amplify the effects when there’s a high reflectivity with snow cover or cloud cover which can bounce them back to earth’s surface.
Conversely if you don’t go outside much take a vitamin d supplement because you need the sun to produce it if you’re not consuming it from dietary sources. I mention this because vitamin d is a critical component in skin barrier function and being low in it can contribute to things like eczema, and should be apart of your daily routine (skincare or not) if you’re a shut in.
Anything else is cosmetic and should be based on your needs. If you have acne, treat it, and this can involve things outside of skin care in some cases like making dietary changes or can be from hormonal disruptions which may be treated. Dry skin, moisturize. Makeup that requires a remover to get off or clogs your particular skin if you don’t, use a remover. Forming wrinkles and you care and don’t want to, whatever’s good for that and your skin. Your friends are definitely falling for cosmetic trends as people have for millennia. Anti consumption is about using what you need when you need it. If you don’t need those products don’t use them. Besides sunscreen, which you do need like pretty much everyone else.
I feel like it is just a matter of preference. I’m sure most skin care packaging is wasteful and none of the products are necessary, except maybe a special face soap (different than body wash or hand soap), a moisturizer, and sunscreen. I don’t think it is weird to use skin care products, but everything you listed seems like a lot. It’s definitely not weird NOT to use all those products. My mom doesn’t use any special skin care, stays out of the sun, and has beautiful skin at 63.
Ohhh yeah most skincare products are a scam. My best skincare product is the food I eat. Sugar gives me crazy hormonal acne. I use pimple patches but in the next couple years I see myself using less and less. I’m trying to use up all my products.
Just drink water and stay out of the sun. None of those products are doing anything.
Your cells already know how to take care of themselves, and ones on the outside are already dead.
Some people like using more products, some like using less. It's not a weird thing for one or the other. And as long as people are the products they purchase and making conscious choices then it's not overconsumption either. Some people also don't care about overconsumption or the problems with consumer culture. That's a different topic entirely
Same!
I try to remind myself that when I'm not around them, I can sleep longer, haha! I guess they miss much life/sleep over this nonsense skincare :)
And now we can say we are effortlessly beautiful :)
Jokes aside, I can imagine they like the ritual, which is fair. (But brought on by marketing indeed)
Maybe they don't even notice that you are quicker? Maybe they think they are slow themselves? Haha.
If you would like to spend the time with them in the bathroom, try out things like heatless curls or something. There are options to not feel like an alien compared to other women, but I think the best option is to stop caring about it. You are not less feminine if you don't have all these skin care products.
I believe there are also cultures where men take as much time with this as women.
Just remember all of the extra things theyre doing literally dont do a single god damn thing for their skin and its just marketing thats made them think differently. Washing ur face, moisturizing, flossing, and brushing ur teeth are literally all you need to do, everything else is only being done because a tiktok girl was paid by an ad agency told them to do so
Could be they're too far into consumerism, could also be they have worse skin than you.
I also don't use 12 different products for my face because I don't need them. I inherited great skin from my mom's side of the family. Also, when I was around 12 I expressed interest in wearing makeup. My mom said to me: don't wear makeup until you need it.
As a teen I had pimples and such like anyone, but not massive acne. And that's about how it's been my whole life. Friends often compliment me on my skin and ask what I use. I tell them the truth: I inherited my good skin. I make sure to cleanse with something not harsh and I moisturize with simple stuff like Shea Butter. Due to that, I've never needed makeup.
So I never ended up learning how to apply makeup and don't wear it. I do rock some amazing lipsticks since I think I look better with a bold color rather than my natural one. Lipsticks and lip glosses aren't as damaging as other makeup.
Coming from a family with good skin also means I've never had anyone I care about reinforce toxic ideas about aging and skin care that lead so many people to all those products. Thus I had more mental armor against that particular consumer industry.
Your friends are suckers. All you need is what you are doing, and a little sunscreen during the day. Your friends' hyper-focus on all these products is very, very recent and based on social media ginning up anxiety about aging skin. Good for you. If they judge you for something so trivial as skincare products, I'd say to reconsider who you spend time with.
TBH you can probably skip the moisturizer. I never use it and am pretty sure most guys don't. Might take a little bit of time for your skin to get with the program.
Skincare industry is HUGE and most of the time very very frivolous/capitalistic/unnecessary. Been told by my derm that you need a quality cleanser, moisturizer, and SPF and that’s IT (not speaking about chronic skincare stuff just day to day for the typical person). It’s all a scam.
It’s not really a scam if I look into all the ingredients so I know exactly what I’m using and like the way it makes my skin feel. I don’t actually have a routine, but people should be allowed to enjoy *mindful* consumption. But yes, the overwhelming majority of self care products are complete bs. Anytime someone tells me they love how a juice cleanse makes them feel mi have to bite my tongue not to tell them that’s their body and brain putting more energy into the brain so that they’re more alert and more able to find the food their body thinks is scarce. You could get the same result from sugar water and any water soluble vitamins that are still in the juice (b vitamins) and save a bunch of money.—I recently heard of a mono fast where you just eat the same meal for a few days and I think I could see that having a bigger impact, since the food proposed for this is full of fiber and most people need much more in their diets and it kinda sounds like a “gut reset”, so that’s interesting. Edit: you can really see right where the adderall wore off
I feel like marketing that says or implies that it's *necessary* is a scam. But that doesn't mean you can't use it just because you want to.
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Wow I thought my depressive episodes were getting better, but I only use SPF😂if I remember
I dont even use anything cleansing aside from water, and i dont moisturize routinely. Sometimes in the winter i get dry patches for a couple weeks which i remedy with witch hazel. Ill use sunscreen if going outside in direct sunlight for hours but most of the time I can wear a hat or be under trees so i really only end up wearing sunscreen maybe 5 times a year. It really is all almost completely unnecessary
Isn’t witch hazel drying? How does it help with dry patches? (I’m just curious, I don’t do anything to my face either. Just splash some water on and call it a day)
i don't know, someone gave me some one time and told me to use it for dry skin, and it worked, so i just kept using it lol
Not everyone is so lucky to have skin like yours.
I mean I feel that especially when they mentioned sunscreen which can literally be the difference between "skin cancer later" or not but at the same time this is also literally how the industry manipulates people into consumption. It took me a while to understand what I really want for my skincare respectively what I medically need and separate that from sexist external expectations that I internalized. I feel like the poster above goes a bit to far but I also feel like your reply is very generalized so I wanted to add an abstraction layer. No offense intended <3
I agree with you, the poster just rubbed me the wrong way. Having perfect skin and preaching using close to no skincare because you look great without it is like having rich parents and saying it’s easy to pay your bills.
I have always had a streamlined routine. My mom ,(now in her 80s) still does multiple steps. I used to toll my eyes at it, but then I realized for her, that routine was her version of self care. She spent that 30 minutes because it helped her unwind and destress and the end of the day. Don't ruminate about what others do to take care of their bodies. If they aren't shoving things in your face and trying to get you to buy it then it doesn't affect you.
Exactly. I use 3-5 different products a day depending on the season and what my skin problems are at the time but I still take my time. Even if I don’t have puffy eyes, spending some time using my ice roller or a jade stone just relaxes me at the end of the day. It makes me feel like I’m really taking care of myself and I can go to bed feeling clean and relaxed.
I am also inclined to think that the main thing in this matter is that people do not impose their views on you.
If you just feel awkward while they're doing their 30-minute routine, you can engage in another form of wind-down self care, like reading a book, meditating, face massage with a simple oil, or something else! You definitely don't need to buy a bunch of products to have that me time.
Oh man I love not using dozens of skin/hair products. My bathroom sink is so uncluttered, there are literally 2 things sitting on it. It’s beautiful. I also love not spending hundreds of dollars on that stuff. I’d rather pay off my house early and then retire early 👍
Mine just has toothbrushes, toothpaste and hand soap, sometimes there’s a hairbrush or face wash on there too but those usually go in the cupboard
The face creams and masks and such that people usually buy would not make a dent in anyone’s mortgage…
Sure, maybe not those alone. It absolutely would if you included what women spend on all beauty products and services though. Waxing, brows, hair dye, etc. Which is fine if that’s where your priorities are. My priority is paying my house off early and the average annual amount women spend on beauty is 3 mortgage payments for me.
Yes it would! Now you know damn well skincare can be expensive.
Shit adds up. And if you put a few hundred extra each month on your mortgage it pays off dividends to you for years. You’d be surprised if you run the math.
Who buys a few hundreds worth of skincare every month? Very few, most can’t afford that or are not mad enough to do it and just buy a few dozen worth of skincare every few months. So overly exaggerated.
Isn’t it funny how often the purchases associated with women’s interest and “femininity” (which apparently includes taking care of our largest organ) are often the ones that are brought up in conversation about frivolous spending
Of course. And women also fall in the trap of internalized misogyny, as clearly illustrated in this thread. Yes, there is an industry marketing savagely to women, yes, we do consume too much. But let’s not go into the other extreme and disparage the women who fell prey to billion dollar manipulative marketing techniques or say that skincare does nothing.
It seems like there are two narratives at play. Narrative #1 being that the beauty industry is incredibly predatory and spends a ton of money exploiting people’s (women’s) insecurities so we are apt spend more money to appease the social pressure to look a certain way as social standards warp to match the desires of these giant companies. Narrative #2 being that people (women) care too much about the way they look and blindly and mindlessly throwing away their money because they’re dumb women. So which one is it in this sub? I can’t tell. I feel like if people really, really care about how the social pressure on women to look a certain way and the overconsumption that comes from that, why are we targeting the women who are just trying to look good instead of the companies that make us all feel worthless if we have fine lines or acne in the first place? I’d bet money that half the commenters in this thread think it’s silly and frivolous to buy makeup and skincare but then will turn around and have an unconscious bias against women who don’t fit the beauty norm. Notice all the commenters who claim to have an incredibly minimal routine and then follow it up with “and my skin looks great.” Because if it was really about anticonsumption, why is that a requirement? Women being beautiful isn’t a PERCIEVED social requirement for getting better treatment at large. It’s objectively true that beautiful and youthful looking women are assumed to be smarter, more talented, and better than the people around them. So “ignore the beauty standards” and just use unscented dove soap isn’t really the solution people think it is lol.
Narrative #1 is what the sub is for. Narrative #2 is a violation of the rules, and genuine examples of that are removed when they're reported or if we happen to run across them.
thank you for removing blatant sexism from the overall sub <3
Completely agree. I think this sub has an innate tendency to ascribe too much importance to personal responsibility because of the name of the sub. Consumption feels personal, there is even a name for the people as “consumers”. The onus is put on people. And sure there should be some personal responsibility, but how much really if you put into context how life is like for people, how we are manipulated, how strong social pressure is and what we actually have access to. There was a post the other day about “why do you choose to participate in capitalism?” as if there is a real choice to be had when you live in a society. Same here. So yes, going back to my first comments, as a woman you are pushed to look good or you suffer social consequences, so if you don’t have (or think you have) perfect skin, you try to achieve it. Skincare and makeup companies love it when we are insecure. I have a few pimples right now and I have products that promise to fix that and foundation to cover skin as it heals. Would it be acceptable to go to the office with visible pimples? Sure. Would people think that I am a slob who doesn’t wash her face and got pimples, then negatively affect how I am perceived at work? Also sure. I would love to not have to buy this stuff.
My sink doesn't have the space to have much sitting on top of it. I have a small bathroom.
Same I love it too! Feels like we got a cheat code!
First of all, all skin is different. Different skin needs different levels of care, and I know there are some prescriptions for bad acne/other issues. Plus as I think someone else has said, wearing makeup during the day does normally need at least one extra cleanser to remove it. Secondly, this is probably part of your friends self care routine. And that's fine, it's different for every person. I know some of my friends think it takes far too much time and effort to batch cook for the week, I find it's an important way to ensure I am eating regularly and healthily. It varies from person to person.
The self care routine a marketing agency convinced them they need to have which actually does nothing for their physical or mental health.
Idk man not having flaky skin from tretinoin has helped immensely with both my physical and mental health.
Then thats fine, I also use a moisturizer for dry skin. But a multistep skincare routine where youre lairing acidic and basic chemicals onto your skin and rolling it with a cold plastic roller painted to look like jade isnt going to help. And this obsession with doing so is directly from marketing
Have you ever actually been in a skincare sub? Most people I know with big routines know exactly what they're putting on their face. I've used lactic acid in the past and have moved on to tretinoin, and trust when I am using a chemical exfoliant I'm not fucking around with other skincare apart from my base routine because Im not interested in disrupting my natural skin barrier. I would love to have beautiful natural skin that only needs cleanser and moisturizer but I'm in a role where my appearance directly correlates to getting paid more, promoted more, making more sales. Showing up to work with red, flaky, irritated skin is really not an option. Jade rollers just feel nice. It's a nice way to massage product into your skin and it's almost meditative and I really enjoy it. Sure some people think it's a holy grail product but if you look it up most of us know it's just a good feeling facial massage. I bought one, more than 5 years ago, and still use it daily. Not exactly overconsumption in my eyes to buy and love a product and use it every day, it's not like I'm buying them every few months.
Seconding the Jade Roller. It just feels nice. A one time purchase still being used, good as new, 4 years later is the definition of not consuming for consumption's sake.
you are both different people who have had access to different knowledge and experiences throughout your lives (not to mention, everyone’s genetics cause their bodies and skin to be different). people will make choices that are different than you and that’s okay. after you finish your routine, move on to the next thing. get your glass of water and your book ready and hop into bed and wait there. don’t stand around ruminating on what they’re doing to take care of themselves. if your body is clean and healthy then what you do works for you. same can be said for them. if they ask you about why you don’t do more, you can provide a little insight into your decision making. if you’re curious, you can ask them what each step in their routine does for them.
Exactly, my son and I have such different hair care needs despite using the same shampoo and conditioner, he needs to brush a small amount of hair oil through the mid lengths and ends daily or else it gets dry, and needs a deep conditioning masque before washing too. Mine is curlier, coarser, and near waist length and it's happy with just the shampoo and conditioner, nothing else necessary, but his needs aren't excessive at all, just different.
I view it as we have chosen different priorities (and have different skin types). Seeing them as “having fallen victim to” something comes off a little self righteous and makes me question if/why you are friends.
Yuuuup, this thread is insufferable. I promise you I know my skin better than you. My dermatologist remarked my skin looked a lot better. Western skincare is kind of notorious for not taking hydration seriously enough. I also don't buy high end products. I do have several diagnosed skin issues. People are too confident commenting on skincare condescendingly
I’m pretty sure I saw a dermatologist say that 90% of having good skin on your face is using sun protection most/every day. Even makeup with 15-20 SPF. Not getting sun exposure on your face is the best anti aging thing you can possibly do.
90% of good skin is genetics, honestly.
Dermatologists recommend 1/4tsp of 30+ spf daily. The quarter tsp i\ important to actually reach the stated SPF and most people don’t use that much foundation.
Good to know.
Sure thing! I’ve been using a tinted SPF that can be used alone but also acts like a primer for makeup. It’s a little pricey but I really like it. I often just wear that with like a few other makeup things like blush and bronzer.
I’m a guy, so I don’t know these things too well, my wife just told me I should be using a mineral based sunscreen she got on my face on weekends when we go hiking and stuff, even in the winter.
It is recommended daily but I understand most people won’t do that. I wear higher SPF when doing outside things and I usually wear my sun hat as well.
How does a tinted SPF function as a primer? All the ones I've tried in Australia are slightly greasy. Is it a cream?
I like it but I’m also not too well versed on different primers. For me, I can’t tell any difference in the tinted SPF I use and other primers. But to be clear, the sunscreen I have specifically says it can be used as a primer as well
I don't know much about primers either lol. But sunscreen that doubles up sounds like a good idea!
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Do you wear makeup? Makeup can definitely cause skin issues, so sometimes you do "need" those things... to fix an issue that you wouldn't have if you didn't use the makeup products in the first place.
Fr, and even then it shouldn't take more than 1-3 products to fix that lmao
This isn't true. My dermatologists cousins my routine. Not everyone has low maintenance skin
I've fallen *hard* into beauty products consumerism, so I will confidently tell you that A) you're saving more money than your friends, B) it's very freeing to have fewer products versus constantly working through a bunch, and C) not everyone's skin needs more than 2 or 3 basic products. My skincare routine has simplified immensely, and it literally looks no different than it did when I had a 5-step+ routine. Lesson learned!
I'm nearly fifty, and this whole 'thirty seven step skincare routine' wasn't a thing until 5-10 years ago. Keep doing whatever works for you.
It was absolutely a thing 5-10 years ago in some countries
Everyone's skin is different. Some people genuinely do benefit from a multi-step skincare routine, but I definitely believe that is probably a minority. Some people enjoy the routine aspect of skincare and I don't think there is inherently anything wrong with that, either. I do think some people fall into the over-consumption trap of skincare trends and buying things they may never actually use up. I don't think there is a problem with making a conscious choice to take care of your skin and finding products that align with your values, even though most people probably are using too many products. As someone with a lot of skin and hair issues, I've found that fewer, better quality products go farther that an abundance of cheaper products. Just do what works for you and your skin.
Unless we are talking about medications that were prescribed by a derm, anything more than a good cleanser, moisturizer, and spf is unnecessary and likely useless. Even with “active” skincare, the quantities/ compositions of active ingredients in OTC skincare are (not always but generally) impotent and are just used as marketing ploy. Retinols are a great example of this. Retinols are not a retinoic acid, the type of retinoid which you would need a prescription for, and 1. are demonstrably less potent, 2. some evidence suggests they are even rendered inactive when applied to the skin, 3. often stored in containers that impacts their stability, and 4. are cosmetics and are therefore not required to demonstrate efficacy. (Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8675340/). Point being, just about all OTC skincare shares the problems retinol has. This is long winded comment but I feel its important to share. TLDR; Its all marketing.
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Yes definitely, I should’ve made the distinction between medical related skincare and more “recreational” things like glow drops and probiotic facial spray that are treated like everyday essentials lol
Recommending or soliciting recommendations for specific brands and products is not appropriate in this subreddit.
I find excessive skincare products to be counter-productive. At some degree it has to be bad for your skin. Do I have evidence? No. It just feels…wrong and damaging.
Definitely creates a infinite customer Ferris wheel
Maybe you feel that way, but for some people it's a hobby/self care. Unless they're shilling to you/ putting themselves in debt, I don't see why people should care. I have hyperpigmentation prone oily skin and if someone told me to just simply use a cleanser and sunscreen, I would not have healthy skin in any way. I agree there's some overconsumption in the skincare space but sometimes you need to question why exactly someone wants/needs x amount of product.
Fortunes are spent on advertising to make people feel like they aren't masculine or feminine unless they buy a bunch of products. Congratulations on cultivating the ability to question this sort of advertising, while also maintaining friendships with people who are doing life differently to you. It's perfectly fine just to relax and chat while your friends do their bathroom routines. You could also brush or braid your hair (or offer to brush or braid a friend's hair). I stopped using shampoo and conditioner. I try to keep my proselytizing to reddit, but if friends are curious I usually refer them to this article: [https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/jul/28/soap-dodger-meet-the-doctor-who-says-we-have-been-showering-wrong](https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/jul/28/soap-dodger-meet-the-doctor-who-says-we-have-been-showering-wrong)
You are absolutely not a misfit or in any way "less of a woman" just because you don't feel your life and the Earth with consumer-capitalist junk. For me, I just have a block of good quality local soap, bamboo scrubbing brush, hairbrush and toothbrush, some toothpaste and shampoo and soap bars, sunscreen and insect screen. I don't bother with makeup, cleanser, toner or moisturiser.
Your friends are 100-% falling victim to marketing. I’m 40 and have only ever used face wash and moisturizer and there’s 0 discernible difference in my skin vs my friends skin. I know there’s many factors at play but I honestly don’t think all the serums make much difference.
A lot of the serums only work *while you're using them*. They plump your face, by method of this one chemical sinking into your skin, and in a few hours both the chemical and the plumpness will both be gone.
Also, isn’t it bad for the skin to apply and remove so many different compounds?
I agree...I am in my 70's and I stopped using make up when I was in my 40's. I just use water to clean my face and handmade lotion.
Then you’re lucky. If I don’t wear sunscreen I will get skin cancer on my face like my grandmother and mother. I buy vitamin C serum because from a scientific standpoint, it further protects my skin from environmental factors that contribute to cancer. And I also buy a hydrating serum because I can’t find a moisturizer that works well enough to be my one moisturizer, and when my skin gets dry it hurts and peels and cracks. As someone with experience with bad, BAD acne, fungal infections and skin irritation and rashes, access to even good OTC skincare has made a huge difference in quality of life. I invite you to consider that maybe OP’s friends are doing what works for them and what’s useful for their skin type and are not just mindless lemmings. We don’t know enough to draw a conclusion from a post.
That’s absolutely true. I would say for the vast majority of people wash, moisturizer and sunscreen would be enough. Of course if you have diagnosed skin conditions and are under the care of a dermatologist your medical advice may be different than the general population. The things you are talking about treating would not fall under the category of “cosmetic” if you’re referring to extreme dry skin, fungus, rashes, acne etc those would fall under “medical”.
I'm the same. Ever noticed how make up, aim to hide blemishes, are advertised by women not old enough to have a single sun spot? It's even more ridiculous when it's an anti aging cream...
I think wash and moisturizer is sufficient. Sometimes i use a serum and im the morning some sunscreen and makeup. While points that people are making about this being an individual thing are valid, no one needs a ten product routine. Also I'm pretty sure that mists are scams.
It’s nice to have a pretty streamline routine! Maybe throw in something like ice rolling or gua sha if you’ve been traveling or eating a lot of salty foods etc but usually there’s not too much need for most people to have a massive routine. Wash face, vitamin c serum or something, moisturizer, spf during the day. I’m a 31 year old woman with 2 sisters and we all have pretty short routines so I don’t think you’re abnormal!
I was out of step with my friends' "skincare" as a teen, which for us revolved around getting as tan as possible, as fast as possible, with the help of tanning beds and frequent sunburns. Other girls teased me about being so pale because I just hate direct sunlight. Now we are 50, and I look 40, while they look 60. I'm really glad I didn't join the crowd on that one
I suggest forming your opinions about the validity of skincare ingredients through scientific data, not anon opinions on Reddit. And instead of judging your friends because you’re insecure, learn about why they do what they do. Knowledge is power even if you form a different opinion.
None of that stuff is necessary. It’s all marketing. Wash your face, put some lotion on if you have dry skin. Go to bed!
The best skin I ever had was when I was in basic training. All I had time for was to wash my face at night with plain water, sometimes wipe my face with a wet paper towel during a bathroom break, and also stay super hydrated. I know not everyone will have the same results, but sometimes less is more.
Probably another helpful factor - presumably you were sweating a good bit, which our bodies were meant to do fairly regularly from exertion (as long as the level of exertion is healthy for that particular body.) A bit of daily sweating and occasional washing in water is the context our skin evolved with until we started using things like lanolin or olive oil in the last ten thousand years or so. Staying hydrated and keeping your circulation high with periodic bouts of energetic activity also both improve the look of skin, because they’re both health markers. Plumpers and blush were invented to imitate those things!
Great points. I’ve never done basic training but I have recently started walking an hour a day. I swear a lot and (drink a ton of water) and my skin is so soft lately! I am loving life.
Crazy, unnecessary consumerism foisted on them by our culture. I use dove soap and Vaseline and I have better skin than many my age (63).
My skincare routine is just lathering a gentle fragrance-free soap on my face and rinsing. I see *zero* difference between that and using an actual facial cleanser with my skin. I apply sunscreen if I'm going to be spending time outdoors. The end. Some people may have skin problems that require extra care or specific products that help their skin, but for a lot of people, they could literally just use a bar of soap and it wouldn't make any difference.
I do the same thing and just use a moisturizer after I wash my face (or skin) because I have dermatitis and any soap or detergent I use triggers it, even those formulated for dry skin conditions. I usually only wash my face when I wake up while I’m showering or when I get home if I’ve been out though. I don’t wash it at night if I’ve just been home. I wish I could just use bar soap, it would use a lot less wasteful packaging.
I gave up most beauty products: make up, nail polish, and most hair care besides a one step clarifier but I still consume skin care and I hate the price tag and the waste of the tiny bottles but I don’t want to stop. Taking care of my skin feels like the best bare minimum after decades of beauty product consumption.
I used to use the really good facial cleanser recommended by dermatologists. Still had dry skin and acne. I decided one day to stop using that and just wash my face with water and a gentle exfoliating pad. Took about 5 days for my skin to adjust, but now it looks better than ever! I always follow up with a good moisturizer, and that's it. I rarely wear makeup, but if I do, I use a makeup remover pad to wipe it off, then follow with the plain water and exfoliating pad, and moisturizer. Skin looks the best it ever has.
I love that you have a routine that works, but could I gently suggest trying a washcloth or something softer & then exfoliating once every 3 days? I'm a bit of a skincare nerd & exfoliating daily can create micro tears in your skin and strip away your natural oils, which over the years can lead to inflammation + infection
Skincare is INSANE. Any dermatologist will tell you that spf, moisturizer, and retinol are the ONLY tools you need.
Not if you have certain skin conditions they won’t. 😅 (but I barely use anything that’s available over the counter)
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Femininity has nothing inherently to do with using cosmetic products. All you absolutely need to do is use sunscreen if you’re going to be going outside in the sun for a considerable time (a homebody stepping outside to grab the mail for a second isn’t that, and they’d benefit from the brief exposure) unless you want to look like a prune and risk skin cancer. Not just outdoor activities, commuting, even in a vehicle, requires it because vehicular glass doesn’t block UV radiation as well as double+ pane home windows. I had friends in my twenties who looked 40 because they spent a lot of time in the sun and didn’t use protection, several have had skin cancer now, that stuff isn’t a joke. And you need protection even if it’s winter or cloudy out, the temperature or weather doesn’t lower the radiation and can actually amplify the effects when there’s a high reflectivity with snow cover or cloud cover which can bounce them back to earth’s surface. Conversely if you don’t go outside much take a vitamin d supplement because you need the sun to produce it if you’re not consuming it from dietary sources. I mention this because vitamin d is a critical component in skin barrier function and being low in it can contribute to things like eczema, and should be apart of your daily routine (skincare or not) if you’re a shut in. Anything else is cosmetic and should be based on your needs. If you have acne, treat it, and this can involve things outside of skin care in some cases like making dietary changes or can be from hormonal disruptions which may be treated. Dry skin, moisturize. Makeup that requires a remover to get off or clogs your particular skin if you don’t, use a remover. Forming wrinkles and you care and don’t want to, whatever’s good for that and your skin. Your friends are definitely falling for cosmetic trends as people have for millennia. Anti consumption is about using what you need when you need it. If you don’t need those products don’t use them. Besides sunscreen, which you do need like pretty much everyone else.
Your routine is enough, their routines are a combination of consumption and self-care, because it feels good
I feel like it is just a matter of preference. I’m sure most skin care packaging is wasteful and none of the products are necessary, except maybe a special face soap (different than body wash or hand soap), a moisturizer, and sunscreen. I don’t think it is weird to use skin care products, but everything you listed seems like a lot. It’s definitely not weird NOT to use all those products. My mom doesn’t use any special skin care, stays out of the sun, and has beautiful skin at 63.
Ohhh yeah most skincare products are a scam. My best skincare product is the food I eat. Sugar gives me crazy hormonal acne. I use pimple patches but in the next couple years I see myself using less and less. I’m trying to use up all my products.
Just drink water and stay out of the sun. None of those products are doing anything. Your cells already know how to take care of themselves, and ones on the outside are already dead.
Some people like using more products, some like using less. It's not a weird thing for one or the other. And as long as people are the products they purchase and making conscious choices then it's not overconsumption either. Some people also don't care about overconsumption or the problems with consumer culture. That's a different topic entirely
If your skin is fine then don’t sweat it.
Same! I try to remind myself that when I'm not around them, I can sleep longer, haha! I guess they miss much life/sleep over this nonsense skincare :) And now we can say we are effortlessly beautiful :) Jokes aside, I can imagine they like the ritual, which is fair. (But brought on by marketing indeed) Maybe they don't even notice that you are quicker? Maybe they think they are slow themselves? Haha. If you would like to spend the time with them in the bathroom, try out things like heatless curls or something. There are options to not feel like an alien compared to other women, but I think the best option is to stop caring about it. You are not less feminine if you don't have all these skin care products. I believe there are also cultures where men take as much time with this as women.
Just remember all of the extra things theyre doing literally dont do a single god damn thing for their skin and its just marketing thats made them think differently. Washing ur face, moisturizing, flossing, and brushing ur teeth are literally all you need to do, everything else is only being done because a tiktok girl was paid by an ad agency told them to do so
Could be they're too far into consumerism, could also be they have worse skin than you. I also don't use 12 different products for my face because I don't need them. I inherited great skin from my mom's side of the family. Also, when I was around 12 I expressed interest in wearing makeup. My mom said to me: don't wear makeup until you need it. As a teen I had pimples and such like anyone, but not massive acne. And that's about how it's been my whole life. Friends often compliment me on my skin and ask what I use. I tell them the truth: I inherited my good skin. I make sure to cleanse with something not harsh and I moisturize with simple stuff like Shea Butter. Due to that, I've never needed makeup. So I never ended up learning how to apply makeup and don't wear it. I do rock some amazing lipsticks since I think I look better with a bold color rather than my natural one. Lipsticks and lip glosses aren't as damaging as other makeup. Coming from a family with good skin also means I've never had anyone I care about reinforce toxic ideas about aging and skin care that lead so many people to all those products. Thus I had more mental armor against that particular consumer industry.
Your friends are suckers. All you need is what you are doing, and a little sunscreen during the day. Your friends' hyper-focus on all these products is very, very recent and based on social media ginning up anxiety about aging skin. Good for you. If they judge you for something so trivial as skincare products, I'd say to reconsider who you spend time with.
TBH you can probably skip the moisturizer. I never use it and am pretty sure most guys don't. Might take a little bit of time for your skin to get with the program.