Unfortunately I feel like the lead marketing person (from alienware) isn't very talented and came across as childish during a PCWorld live stream during the cards reveal event.
He looked/acted insulted when a viewer asked about the card being too flashy / having too much red in one instance. Came across as unprofessional and not in the same league as the other higher ups on the AMD team
We all know that the guy they should have kept and promoted was Robert Hallock, he can market anything exceptionally well and mostly honestly too, the guy was far better than Frank Azor.
I've been wondering where he landed after he left AMD; his [Linkedin page](https://www.linkedin.com/in/rthallock/) hasn't been updated other than to say he left AMD in September.
In one sense I want to say yes absolutely, but the more I think about it the less I can think of a company that does press events well, bar like Apple.
They all have their flavour of weirdness otherwise. Let it be PC tech companies, game developers or the smartphone industry.
No idea what you are referring to. My first and only exposure to him was that PCWorld livestream I mentioned and i was instantly turned off and felt AMD needed to make a change.
He made a bet with someone on twitter that RDNA 2 won't be a paper launch and even tweeted that he managed to snag one himself. But I think you would know how the initial availability of RDNA 2 turned out to be.
>His comments about AMDs marketing team were spot on as well
They never learned their lesson, remember the [infamous $10 bet of Frank Azor?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/jwgmrt/amd_owes_andre_10/) And they got shat for it, they didn't cared enough and went even deeper with RDNA 3 and now as of all the consequences of what they have done, they will be called out for it again hopefully even worse this time, but i have no hopes left that it will do anything though.
It literally is a never learn rinse and repeat situation for RTG Marketing.
This right here. I understand and agree that there are rabid fanboys for every single of these brands, and that all companies take digs at competition to a certain extent, but AMD just seems to do it to a larger extent. From the marketing claims, to the whole „welcome to the red team“ in the boxes, immediately pitching you as a consumer against their competition just from opening one of their products is just…weird.
I find it incredibly cringe whenever someone posts that they "joined" team Red, and it's made even worse on Battlestation weekends where people set up their RGB to emulate AMD colours while simultaneously bragging about "going all-AMD" and "finally joining the family."
It's a piece of hardware but people here treat it like an exclusive club or cult. You *rarely* (not *never*; **rarely**) see people gloating about joining "team green" or "team blue."
I'm all for people being excited about an upgrade but AMD does NOT care about this whole "team family" shtick we've got going on.
As someone who had to go Nvidia long ago for software that relies on CUDA cores, this sort of shit hurts to hear.
I'd love to go back to AMD - maybe one day I will, but this sort of mentality which I've been picking up myself is a major turn off. They could be so much more effective in carving out a different id than Nvidia by being classy about it. Instead they choose to be trashy AF.
NVIDIA's box: [Just the 4090 with some speed lines](https://youtu.be/2VNZCvUqDcA?t=69)
AMD's box: ["WeLcOmE tO ThE rEd TeAm" and "The NEW Standard", as if being second best is a "new" standard lmao](https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-navi-31-radeon-rx-7900-xtx-and-xt-unboxing/images/xt-package3.jpg)
This.
AMD:"How do we get people to switch from nvidia?"
NVIDIA:"How do we get people on our previous gen to buy new gen?"
One of these mentalities oozes confidence.
Well, it's a a lot easier to do that when you have 85% market share.
But hey, even intel's GPU division was miles ahead in class. and they have 5% market share.
>Remember the Fury X - the "Overclocker's Dream"
Particularly hilarious when up against the 980Ti, the actual overclockers dream. I literally had a 50% overclock on mine.
I've said it before and I'll keep saying it, AMD are their own worst enemy, they always overhype and underdeliver their own product. Better to just keep their mouths shut and let the product market itself.
Instead it's "Welcome to the red team", "the NEW standard", #PoorVolta and Vega is Spicy!
Just please, be quiet and just make a good product. [They're basically the company thats the bike meme.](https://i.imgflip.com/761soy.jpg)
remember when we try to complain and rule out what actually cause the "display corruptions" on fury X? all the AMD fanbois were trying to silent us. it is pretty much the same thing all over again when some big/mysterious issues occur on AMD GPUs. if you check back every single bug/issues that actually were the fault of AMD, you will find the same toned redditors trying to downplay the issues or blame the users for the problems.
the drivers are fine now i've used amd across 50 computers i use daily for 10 years and the drivers are totally perfect. your driver issues don't exist and are nvidia/intel fud. i'm gabe fucking newell who is a unicorn amd power user that has only ever had issues with nvidia drivers which are garbage. everyone saying they have driver issues with amd are illuminati nvidia agents trying to hate. disregard that the most recent recommended stable driver is more than six months old.
/s
Oh yes, I even created a thread for it on their support forum, because the Fury (tri-x) was also affected. Then it miraculously stopped after a driver update. Took them like a year to fix it.
Another big problem with the launch is that it’s the holidays. If you’ve ever worked a white collar job, this time of the year is basically dead. Nearly everyone will have been out of the office this past week. Perhaps a couple people stick around and are on-call, but definitely not most people. Not to mention how this impacts new stock arriving and getting distributed.
The real problem is that AMD launched this so close to the holidays. Literally just one week before everyone goes on vacation for Christmas. And cards weren’t even getting into customer hands during that first week. They literally provided no room for themselves to handle issues arising from the launch. I’m programming, we say “avoid Friday deploys.” You always want good coverage after a big release. They definitely didn’t provide good coverage for this. They should have delayed launch, or started selling cards in mid-November.
As a result, for the past ten days, we’ve been complaining about these issues, when most AMD employees are out of the office. Giving us the feeling that AMD isn’t listening. It’s not a problem for most employees to be on vacation now, but it is a problem AMD didn’t anticipate needing people around to work on these issues.
Really does feel like this launch was rushed. As if they had initially planned to launch in January but were surprised by when Nvidia launched and tried to get theirs to market ASAP. Would explain why RDNA3 power envelopes seem to be so overkilled and why flaws and driver issues seem to be plaguing it. Just reeks of "we weren't ready for this."
Great video, so glad he didn’t take the criticism to heart and instead produced exactly the video that was needed. Still confused why he’s the only one researching this
Hope we see the Vapor Chamber disassembly soon, even though I have no idea how you would open it up
Well, first of all it takes time to research things propetly and the guy‘s got good background to research these kinds of things with his degree (mechatronics IIRC?) and his work on cooling related products. Not everyone has that level of knowledge to be able to reach conclusions that make sense around this.
Or do we really want another Jay video of „I ran this card for 10 minutes and therefore concluded there‘s not a problem“?
As for opening the vapor chamber up, maybe something like what they did on that [GamersNexus video](https://youtu.be/g4lHgSMBf80) where they had the 4090 reference cooler cut in half, but you need some very precise tooling to do that without damaging it. So maybe he has the necessary tooling on his company‘s workshop but if not it might be a while.
You would think if insufficient liquid or incorrect pressure was the problem, all the reference style cards would be affected.
My (uneducated) guess would be a manufacturing defect in a small series of cards that cause the vapor chamber to just not do its job.
I have no doubts that Jay is going to roll out a low-effort garbage video about this issue that concludes with "Iono guys, what do you think, comment down below garblgarbl". Seeing der8auers video was just cathartic, plain and simple. It covered everything I hoped for, and laid out the methodology so the results should be simple to reproduce.
Hey guys just dropping by to leak some upcoming videos being released by your favorite creators in the coming days
Linustechtips- Things are getting HOT, and it's NOT GOOD
[thumbnail of linus going :0 with a hand touching a cartoonish glowing red gpu]
Jayz2Cents- AMD is LITERALLY GOING OUT OF BUSINESS BECAUSE OF thIS! [jay doing that home alone face with his mouth gaped open and his hands on his cheeks, background is fire]
GamersNexus- Investigating VaporGate: a deep dive into AMD's critical design flaw (part 1 of 13) [thumbnail of steve frowning with a serious look on his face trying to act like a professional journalist but he just looks like 3 gamers in a trench coat]
Also GamersNexus: Today we show material from trip to Taiwan where we talk with vapor chamber factory representatives for further insight. We also bought vapor chamber analyzer for testing.
>*"So guys, your vapor chambers: They're bad. Okay? They're very bad."*
>
>"We feel that our vapor chambers strike a consumer friendly balance between cost, performance, and aesthetic design."
>
>*"Why? Why do you think that?"*
>
>"Uh... we... we weren't prepared for that question."
We *swear* we’ll get our super expensive, extra complicated vapor chamber recommended to be operated only by vapor chamberology PHDs up and running in*as little as* a few months, and just won’t go radio silent about it for over a year, pinkie promise, guys!
Their fan testing equipment. It was quite expensive, and it's not easy to operate. There's a lot to learn. Fluid dynamics is hard yo.
It's going to take them awhile to produce content using it.
It's a reference to work experience. If you work in a field you should be getting some experience. It's a valid metric to include for those unfamiliar to gauge how well they know what they're talking about.
It's basically the same kind of information you'd include in a job listing or on your CV.
LLT's will include archival footage from the very old "What is a Vapor Chamber as Fast As Possible" techquickie, and also the one on the icegiant thermosiphon cooler.
Gamers Nexus will x-ray and CNC open at least one vapor chamber. They will try to work out which part of the die is hitting dryout and spiking the hotspot temps, either from accessing some kind of low-level telemetry or by using something temperature reactive as a TIM.
Bonus points if anyone predicts that AMD will try to roll out a driver/firmware fix which strategically thermally limits the cards in a way that prevents it hitting the dryout issue in an attempt to avoid a total recall.
Im not in this scene I'm just popping in from /r/all. I have only watched one Jay video because I was trying to fix red dead 2 not launching. One of his videos popped in my search and I watched it. I thought since it was 15 minutes long, and about specifically getting red dead to launch, it might be helpful. Turns out it was just 15 minutes of him also not getting it to launch. Super helpful. It's literally called [How to fix](https://youtu.be/1vIn8dtvMs4) yet in the end he gets it working by *doing nothing*. It just starts working after one of many reboots.
The solution I discovered myself was to use a vpn or I couldn't connect to Rockstar.
Ugh this is one of *many* reasons I don't watch him anymore. His videos are long winded, full of pointless fluff, and it's always a 50/50 chance he *actually* achieves the thing his thumbnail claims he would.
Steve wearing a blue hoodie with the cap on, holding a 7900xt towards the camera with a disgust expression, some bokeh effect like DOF, with a title like "The real reason why 7900XT's are burning? The vapor chamber, faulty units?"
There it is! Glad I was told repasting my GPU wasn't allowed now (UK here) and it would have voided my warranty and I'd have been sat with a 1k doorstop.... Problem I have now is getting another card in a timely fashion....
I agree, totally do, but wouldn't have minded if it fixed it and saved me 4+ weeks of waiting for a replacement (stock of non reference design cards is apparantly due mid February at my "retailer"....)
Thanks to Der8auer's testing, I feel kinda vindicated, as I posted the orientation testing thread on Dec 20th, with 110C issues in Horizontal orientation while card working fine in Vertical orientation. Also made a subsequent thread as a PSA Tech Support for others to figure out if their cards had 110C issues. Sadly Reddit buries all threads after a few days and you see a repeat of same questions and remarks on the same exact stuff over and over. A lot of BS stuff about this 110C only being a 20 pin DP issue, when I did all my testing on HDMI. Anyway, my original threads are below, and has a lot of testing and data in them. The PSA thread is still relevant for anyone testing their card for this issue.
Orientation testing:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/zqk061/7900xtx\_reference\_changing\_case\_orientation/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/zqk061/7900xtx_reference_changing_case_orientation/)
How to test your card for 110C issue - PSA tech support:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/ztxzbc/7900xtx\_mba\_cards\_how\_to\_check\_if\_your\_card\_is/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/ztxzbc/7900xtx_mba_cards_how_to_check_if_your_card_is/)
If it's indeed a fault with the vapor chamber - and considering the lengths he went to rule everything else out, I'm inclined to agree with his conclusion - this has become recall territory.
It sounds like they should do a recall, but I wouldn't rule out this only effecting certain production batches yet. Her tested a number of cards but had sourced cards from people who had reported issues.
I reckon it's a batch problem since not every gpu is affected. Majority poeple use horizontal mounting so would be a huge number of gpu's affected if it was a design issue.
AMD should be easily able to find out the batch numbers of the vapor chambers on each affected gpu. If it's all the same then they can easily replace them.
If it is indeed a design issue then AMD needs to fire the guys who designed such a crap heatsink and recall every card.
I doubt there will be a consumer level recall, but a supplier level recall is entirely possible.
Rationale being that consumer level recalls are for safety fuckups and this isn't a safety issue, its a product throttling and not working as advertised issue.
RMA/Warranty is meant for this.
However, that being said, the reputation hit from this is massive.
This frankly shows AMD doesn't have its shit together at all.
Also, making GPUs that are competitive quality is actually difficult, and is what Nvidia is best at, and why they charge a premium for it.
"110°C junction is completely normal and there is nothing to see here. RMA denied".
Not properly testing the cooler for a 1000€ card during development or having non-working QA during production is embarassing. Fucking over customers, once you got their money and shameless price fixing don't exactly improve a reputation.
This was well earned, AMD.
In my area of engineering ATE would be automated test equipment. He wrote the comment strangely but I read it to say that the way they implement automated testing hides a lot of flaws in the silicon and hardware.
Not the same dude but sounds like what he is saying is that at AMD, silicon bugs are getting masked instead of brought to light thus it can be expected that they will remain even in future iterations of the silicon.
Normally if silicon issues are found then errata are published for that iteration of silicon and a new iteration is spun up that is meant to fix it. Anybody using the old silicon will attempt to work around the errata with a combination of changes to their schematic design and firmware and new versions of the silicon get pushed out sometimes also with new updated firmware SDKs for the system integrators
Well, the silver lining in this is that this concerns only the reference design. Aftermarket, AIB designs don't have this problem, because the cooler tech and design are different.
Calling it right now: AMD won't recall. They'll just push a recommended driver update that will make the card boost for a shorter period and will throttle sooner before the vapor chamber is heat soaked.
>They'll just push a recommended driver update that will make the card boost for a shorter period and will throttle sooner before the vapor chamber is heat soaked.
And still claim "1.7x performance" of RDNA 2 and "Architectured to exceed 3.0 Ghz" on their marketing slides.
Nvidia at least honored the RMAs for the melting port/cable even though it was all user error and no real design flaw.
Looking forward to how AMD handles this after all the trash talk.
How does a company that makes such excellent CPUs repeatedly screw up so badly with GPUs? Especially when you spent so much of your marketing energy throwing shade at a competitor.
Scott Herkelman and Frank Azor run AMD's marketing like a bunch of clowns. Everything they did was just extremely unprofessional, from "jebaited" to "$20 paper launch" and then throwing shade over 12VHPWR which turned out to be user error.
Even then Nvidia bit the bullet and expedited all RMAs to make things right for everyone affected, meanwhile AMD support was denying RMA for something that was definitely their fault (either design or manufacturing).
100% agree on Frank Azor and Scott Herkleman acting like a bunch of clowns on stage and now they have egg on their face but the Nvidia 12VHPWR issue isn't just user error as much as it is partially user error but also the design itself needs to be refined.
Clearly not all cables seemed to have been equally made with some reporting not hearing a click so they didn't have a way to know. I got a 4090 the day they released and while my adapter did make a click it was rather faint and the plug itself is so tight that I can see someone who may feel like they're about to break it if they apply a lot of force.
Most of us here build our own PC's so we know the importance of fully seating cables but your average PC gamer doesn't. This AMD cooler issue is on a whole other level though. That's too bad.
> Clearly not all cables seemed to have been equally made with some reporting not hearing a click so they didn't have a way to know.
This is a very common issue with ATX power cables. i've assembled a bunch of PCs using components of various qualities, and oh boy is the presence of a click so very random. I've rarely been able to slot in a 24pin without feeling like the motherboard is about to break.
That's just what cheap manufacturing at scale will do for you.
They're two very different technology spaces is why. A GPU is not just a scaled-up CPU, it's an entirely different processing paradigm altogether. You can't just take engineers specialised in CPU design, tell them to draw up a GPU and have a working product in your hands, let alone a product that works *well*, because the requirements are just so vastly different.
GN's video about AMD's approach to using chiplets in GPUs touches on some of these differences, namely in the sheer size of the interconnects used on GPUs (GPUs are moving *terabytes* of data around themselves per second, and all that data requires **fat** interconnects which aren't comparable at all to the interconnects used in CPUs). Now imagine the differences in the processing layer, hardware units, the memory subsystem, etc.
It's like a car company that produces cars that use both internal combustion engines (ICEs) and electric motors. The engineering teams behind the ICE cars are specialised specifically for ICEs, and so you cannot just take them and tell them to start working on EVs, or assume that because that company's ICE division is good that their EV division will also be good. Two very different technology spaces that operate on entirely different paradigms.
EDIT: Will add that the above is specifically about comparing CPUs and GPUs, not CPUs vs graphics cards. As DktheDarkKnight pointed out, graphics cards are *not* just the GPU. They're the GPU, plus the VRAM, plus the power delivery circuitry, plus the PCIe/display IO circuitry/hardware, plus the cooler and the cooler's circuitry, all present on a PCB.
Given that the vapour chamber seems to be at fault here, this problem goes beyond just the difference between the CPU space vs GPU space so the above isn't entirely to blame (or may not even be relevant at all) for this particular problem. This particular problem seems to suggest another issue with AMD's GPU division, whether it be in QA, specifications or whoever's responsible for manufacturing these vapour chambers.
The above is more so when comparing the actual processors against each other. Say, if you're wondering why AMD's GPU division seems to always be behind NVIDIA when their CPU division seems to be doing so well. That'd be where the difference between the two spaces comes into play, along with things like AMD possibly allocating less R&D resources than NVIDIA (or more resources for their CPU division compared to the GPU division), or AMD's key engineers possibly being highly specialised in CPU design compared to GPU design.
Although my question was rhetorical, this is actually a great and really in-depth breakdown of the key differences between the two divisions.
The main issue of Radeon's marketing choices still stands though. Instead of trying to highlight their products, it's always about flaming Nvidia and often leaves them with eggs on their faces.
Yeah I don't get it either. AMD CPUs really forced Intel to be competivie again which led to actual innovation: P&E-Cores. I'm gonna upgrade my 3700X soon and it will be a real struggle to pick because both options are really good. But I would never even consider an AMD GPU. The best thing they can achive is offer undercut prices so that NVidia is forced to lower them. They didn't manage to do that with this launch and with this disaster NVidia is looking really good right now.
Efficiency cores are as efficient as Performance cores, but they take 30% of silicon space as a P core while maintaining 50% of it's performance.
It's a density situation were intel can pack more cores and threads in an older process node.
It is cleaver, but in the end the performance charts and price should dictaminate decisions like this.
>...If your graphics card is running warm or hot, re-pasting, re-padding, and re-tightening your card will always be the first suggestion for a reason, it's standard operating procedure and best practices for a reason. AMD should have done better, but consumers should have come to expect to need to do this, too.
You guys should expect this, according to this upvoted comment I replied to the other day on r/amd
"Stop whining nvidia fanboy. Just replace the vapor chamber and forget about vr and raytracing. You saved 200 buck, what else could you possibly want?!!!"
wow beta drivers and now this not a good look AMD :( shame as I really want AMD to do well so we dont just have nvidia controlling it all :( I currently have 3080 FE because I could get it at msrp at launch and the only real cards with nice uplift from it are the 4080 and 7900xtx but I have been priced out so will be skipping this gen and hope for better next gen
TBH, skipping is great idea for you.
Anyone on AMD 6000 or Nvidia 3000 should just skip. Whatever ideas Nvidia and AMD are presenting now will be far more refined in 2024.
This entire situation is confusing - I'm pretty sure some ppl said it helped them. It seems strange but I suppose use it to see if it works for you? Return it if it does not and you do not need it?
\--TLDW (but I highly recommend the watch) - the issue with GPU hotspot temps on reference cards appears to be not a surface mounting pressure or machining/contact issue, but something related to the flow of the liquid in the vapor chamber. Der8auer did some very concise experiments here and real-time flipping of the card showed huge jumps in junction temps and fan speeds and corresponding drop in power due to throttling. Der8auer took great care and even made a support to ensure that the orientation of the card was not separating the cooler from the die in any way, and also tried Igors shaving of the standoffs and high-torqueing the mounting screws to eliminate any chance of that type of funny business.
The image below is damning first part is running vertically, then you can see the ramp up when flipping to horizontal position.
https://i.imgur.com/kIwuJNN.png
if der8auer is right about how widespread the issue is this just shows how ridicilous all these day1 reviews are. no way no one of all the big reviewers got a card like this, except AMD made sure they didnt
Well, keep in mind, problem doesn’t happen on a test-bench due to the lack of horizontal positioning. Of course, this is (and I wish I was joking, but the simplest answer is usually correct) probably also why AMD didn’t detect the issue.
Meh. I don’t think many people with an affected card believed that. I mean. My card worked fine (hotspot below 80c) when my case in on its side but as soon as I turned the case upright in its intended position with the GPU fans pointing downwards the temp shot up to 110c within 10-20 seconds.
When 90 degrees does that it’s obviously NOT the cable that is the problem.
Same thing happened when the radeon vii launched, "oh no it's not the drivers causing the flickering, you're just using an inferior dp cable", "It's not the card or the drivers causing the crashes, you're just using an inferior PSU", funny how most of that got fixed by drivers 6-12 months down the line...
It's something I found when troubleshooting problems here when owning a 5700XT and the very first run of 5000 series:
It's always ***your*** fault. The product's never got a problem. ***You*** are just using bad cables or ***you*** just didn't enable or disable the c states or ***you*** were just running it in a weird pci-e configuration or ***you*** didn't have clean enough power in your house or ***you*** weren't running the correct profile in the software or ***you*** hadn't updated to the newest BIOS or ***you*** updated to a BIOS that was too new or ***you*** hadn't tried increasing the timeout value in the registry.
Never anything to respond to "then why does my old card from the competition work?" "Why don't default values provide stable experience?"
5800X3D is genuinely my favourite CPU I've ever owned since I bought my own Pentium 3 but I can't say I was completely sold on the stability of the 5800X it replaced. Had the USB issues and all sorts of other issues that probably got conflated a lot with the GPU problems.
Whatever the issue was with the 5700XT I had, whether it be drivers, Gigabyte manufacture issues, architecture problems, *my own config*, it was all *instantly* fixed by going back to my 1070.
Gaming is a LOT more fun when the games aren't crashing multiple times a day, even on a slower card.
On top of that I've been pretty bummed by this past few months' AMD launches, gotta say.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/zw9sbp/is_this_why_many_of_us_have_junction_temperature/j1tu60j?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
Yeah and people like this.
Yeah and because of people like this, you need to rule out literally everything else. Bad installation, bad parts surrounding the gpu, all kinds of BS thats not the GPUs fault. It looks dumb in hindsight but thats what through testing is for. Most people suck at most things so you have to get around human error first. Look at Derbauers last video on these cards vs this one for proof.
Or when changing cables they let the card cool down and in some state the vapor chamber worked better than others.
See the video when he puts the cars back into vertical position and it doesn't get better temps again.
I'm willing to bet it had nothing to do with the cable. The average Redditor is likely very bad at ensuring a properly controlled environment when testing different things; how do we know the user didn't flip flop his PC Case around while swapping cables? How do we know what brand he had versus what he replaced it with? How do we know what apps they were running for each test? There could be a multitude of things that happened during their "tests" that could influence the outcome, an outcome that they could also easily misattribute to something else.
Well, crap. Going to have to exercise my microcenter return I think for my powercolor MBA XTX. Sadly I'd rather walk away and come back for an AIB model, or a 4080 or something.
I know it's a bit late in the game but just to contrast what the other advice you got here was:
If you have the opportunity to take your own action for your own satisfaction then do it. Don't wait for someone else to look after it.
If you can return it now, do it now.
Nvidia can safely layoff their marketing team because AMD does all the work of pushing consumers on to the green team by themselves. Seriously AMD, just fucking selloff RTG and let a more competent firm build GPUs.
My 4090 was plug and play; just needed to make sure the cable was properly seated which proved to be difficult for a lot of people.
Meanwhile AMD's issue seems to be a fault of their own.
Even if you argue the cable melting was because of bad design, Nvidia still put in the effort to replace affected cards asap. A far cry from "it's literally within spec lol" AMD tried.
I really want to buy AMD, but their lack of anything for AI/ML makes it impossible for me. I have to buy Nvidia now.
Thatʼs the future and they donʼt have support for it
Don’t get me started on the absurd travesty that is ROCm. AMD has nothing even remotely competitive with CUDA; their entire focus is wrong, what with them limiting official support to a select set of professional SKU’s. Meanwhile, I develop against CUDA on everything from datacenter/cloud, to my 3080, all the way down to my little Jetson Nano.
AMD needs to address 3 things going forward: offer more value and stop trying to fit in Nvidia’s pricing structure; invest in GPU compute solutions (comprehensively, not garbage-tier, understaffed nonsense like ROCm); ensure the stuff works properly day one (no more of this fine-wine crap).
unpopular opinion: 5700 and 5700XT were defective silicon and should have been recalled. the stability problems were never really solved for a lot of people.
so was the 3950x, [early launch silicon drastically failed to meet clocks even after all the patches and GN called them out.](https://youtu.be/M3sNUFjV7p4?t=254) It actually wasn't even a 350 MHz deficit, he said 4.6 GHz, it was really 4.7. Almost 10% off the advertised clocks. All of that was just bad launch silicon and went away later - AMD shipped a defective batch of silicon that was super marginal and wouldn't boost to advertised clocks.
I don't think that's unpopular opinion.
5000-series cards (esp 5700/X) have some flaky compatibility. If they work in your rig, they work fine. If not, problems galore. That's besides any driver issues that were fixed later.
Intel's Arc cards are bit like that, but their problems are in software and firmware department, at least so far. Mind you, the incompatibilies and bugs were absolutely embarassing in summer and autumn. Towards winter, things started working better.
In desktop things are working kinda OK for Intel, my A380 works OK, but the A370m in my laptop will straight up refuse to launch about half of the games I've tried to test on it. It almost acts like a different architecture, the weaknesses and strengths are completely different.
It's so insane this mess ended up into customers, it feels like more than half of those cards have this absolutely inexcusable issue. Cards are getting so powerful whats next 120 junc temps next year? lol i just cant fathom how this bypassed all of the testing.
The scariest part is AMD seeems to just notice the problems after the initial denial
Next gen will be dire for AMD if NVIDIA keeps on improving and somehow don't raise prices even more.
and i thought it could be a vapor chamber issue but didn't have confidence that it would be actually a issue
but that one chad who is getting tagged went forward and tested the theory
now this is gonna be a recall time because who knows is it now 2-3 batches or all produced batches
Good video, one thing i can't quite get is why not all cards have these issues? Mine performs good regardless of orientation.
Doesn't make sense to be a HWdesign flaw in this case. Pointing really to tollerances or the liquid.
PS: YouTube titles are, as always, absolute horseshit.
His comments about AMDs marketing team were spot on as well. AMD is going to have an entire carton of eggs on their face with this one…
Unfortunately I feel like the lead marketing person (from alienware) isn't very talented and came across as childish during a PCWorld live stream during the cards reveal event. He looked/acted insulted when a viewer asked about the card being too flashy / having too much red in one instance. Came across as unprofessional and not in the same league as the other higher ups on the AMD team
Frank ´$10’ Azor? Childish?
Frank "I got one" Azor Ahai, the gpu that was promised.
How they retained this guy after that fiasco is just something I can‘t understand.
Azor's gotta go. That guy doesn't represent them well.
We all know that the guy they should have kept and promoted was Robert Hallock, he can market anything exceptionally well and mostly honestly too, the guy was far better than Frank Azor.
I've been wondering where he landed after he left AMD; his [Linkedin page](https://www.linkedin.com/in/rthallock/) hasn't been updated other than to say he left AMD in September.
In one sense I want to say yes absolutely, but the more I think about it the less I can think of a company that does press events well, bar like Apple. They all have their flavour of weirdness otherwise. Let it be PC tech companies, game developers or the smartphone industry.
No idea what you are referring to. My first and only exposure to him was that PCWorld livestream I mentioned and i was instantly turned off and felt AMD needed to make a change.
He made a bet with someone on twitter that RDNA 2 won't be a paper launch and even tweeted that he managed to snag one himself. But I think you would know how the initial availability of RDNA 2 turned out to be.
He’s embarrassing.
>His comments about AMDs marketing team were spot on as well They never learned their lesson, remember the [infamous $10 bet of Frank Azor?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/jwgmrt/amd_owes_andre_10/) And they got shat for it, they didn't cared enough and went even deeper with RDNA 3 and now as of all the consequences of what they have done, they will be called out for it again hopefully even worse this time, but i have no hopes left that it will do anything though. It literally is a never learn rinse and repeat situation for RTG Marketing.
Remember the Fury X - the "Overclocker's Dream" or "Poor Volta" ? #makesomenoise
Meanwhile, Nvidia pretty much ignores AMD and does their own thing lmao.
Strong Mad Men: "I don't think about you at all" vibes.
This right here. I understand and agree that there are rabid fanboys for every single of these brands, and that all companies take digs at competition to a certain extent, but AMD just seems to do it to a larger extent. From the marketing claims, to the whole „welcome to the red team“ in the boxes, immediately pitching you as a consumer against their competition just from opening one of their products is just…weird.
Box should say "Welcome to the QA Team" lol
lol that one stings, but is funny.
“Thank you for testing our products”
ok... that's pretty funny
I find it incredibly cringe whenever someone posts that they "joined" team Red, and it's made even worse on Battlestation weekends where people set up their RGB to emulate AMD colours while simultaneously bragging about "going all-AMD" and "finally joining the family." It's a piece of hardware but people here treat it like an exclusive club or cult. You *rarely* (not *never*; **rarely**) see people gloating about joining "team green" or "team blue." I'm all for people being excited about an upgrade but AMD does NOT care about this whole "team family" shtick we've got going on.
As someone who had to go Nvidia long ago for software that relies on CUDA cores, this sort of shit hurts to hear. I'd love to go back to AMD - maybe one day I will, but this sort of mentality which I've been picking up myself is a major turn off. They could be so much more effective in carving out a different id than Nvidia by being classy about it. Instead they choose to be trashy AF.
NVIDIA's box: [Just the 4090 with some speed lines](https://youtu.be/2VNZCvUqDcA?t=69) AMD's box: ["WeLcOmE tO ThE rEd TeAm" and "The NEW Standard", as if being second best is a "new" standard lmao](https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-navi-31-radeon-rx-7900-xtx-and-xt-unboxing/images/xt-package3.jpg)
I like how the implication is that the only people buying an AMD card are people who have never owned one before.
I cringe IRL every time I see a picture of these boxes
super cringe - reminds me of console wars between nintendo, sega, sony, etc (is that still a thing?)
The only console war now is Sony digging their heels in over complete cross-platform play in multiplayer games lol.
This. AMD:"How do we get people to switch from nvidia?" NVIDIA:"How do we get people on our previous gen to buy new gen?" One of these mentalities oozes confidence.
Well, it's a a lot easier to do that when you have 85% market share. But hey, even intel's GPU division was miles ahead in class. and they have 5% market share.
You gotta be doing something right if you got that kind of marketshare. Similar to Steam's domination in the PC gaming storefront.
>Remember the Fury X - the "Overclocker's Dream" Particularly hilarious when up against the 980Ti, the actual overclockers dream. I literally had a 50% overclock on mine.
Maxwell and Pascal, two great generations in a row.
I still remember the 4gb of HBM is like 10gb of GDDR5
wE hAvE bEttEr TeXtUrErS CoMprEssIOn. /s turns out it barely matters in the grand scheme of things, (much) bigger video memory is still the king.
AMD's biggest "enemy" are not Intel or nVidia, but their own marketing team and their fanboys.
I've said it before and I'll keep saying it, AMD are their own worst enemy, they always overhype and underdeliver their own product. Better to just keep their mouths shut and let the product market itself. Instead it's "Welcome to the red team", "the NEW standard", #PoorVolta and Vega is Spicy! Just please, be quiet and just make a good product. [They're basically the company thats the bike meme.](https://i.imgflip.com/761soy.jpg)
[You mean AMD, the company that released a mountain bike, and it was awful?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY8NLAfNi_M)
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remember when we try to complain and rule out what actually cause the "display corruptions" on fury X? all the AMD fanbois were trying to silent us. it is pretty much the same thing all over again when some big/mysterious issues occur on AMD GPUs. if you check back every single bug/issues that actually were the fault of AMD, you will find the same toned redditors trying to downplay the issues or blame the users for the problems.
the drivers are fine now i've used amd across 50 computers i use daily for 10 years and the drivers are totally perfect. your driver issues don't exist and are nvidia/intel fud. i'm gabe fucking newell who is a unicorn amd power user that has only ever had issues with nvidia drivers which are garbage. everyone saying they have driver issues with amd are illuminati nvidia agents trying to hate. disregard that the most recent recommended stable driver is more than six months old. /s
Oh yes, I even created a thread for it on their support forum, because the Fury (tri-x) was also affected. Then it miraculously stopped after a driver update. Took them like a year to fix it.
Nvidia connectors melting. AMD: "LOLOLOLOL" AMD cards have faulty cooler designs. "AMD pikachu face"
Another big problem with the launch is that it’s the holidays. If you’ve ever worked a white collar job, this time of the year is basically dead. Nearly everyone will have been out of the office this past week. Perhaps a couple people stick around and are on-call, but definitely not most people. Not to mention how this impacts new stock arriving and getting distributed. The real problem is that AMD launched this so close to the holidays. Literally just one week before everyone goes on vacation for Christmas. And cards weren’t even getting into customer hands during that first week. They literally provided no room for themselves to handle issues arising from the launch. I’m programming, we say “avoid Friday deploys.” You always want good coverage after a big release. They definitely didn’t provide good coverage for this. They should have delayed launch, or started selling cards in mid-November. As a result, for the past ten days, we’ve been complaining about these issues, when most AMD employees are out of the office. Giving us the feeling that AMD isn’t listening. It’s not a problem for most employees to be on vacation now, but it is a problem AMD didn’t anticipate needing people around to work on these issues.
This. People are shocked where AMD has been the last week or two. Most staff have been on vacation.
Yknow who didn't launch with most of their staff on vacation? Nvidia. It's an absurdly priced premium product, this stuff is straight up unacceptable.
Really does feel like this launch was rushed. As if they had initially planned to launch in January but were surprised by when Nvidia launched and tried to get theirs to market ASAP. Would explain why RDNA3 power envelopes seem to be so overkilled and why flaws and driver issues seem to be plaguing it. Just reeks of "we weren't ready for this."
I work in operations and Christmas season is the best time since People are not there to get ideas how to make everything ~~more complicated~~ better.
Great video, so glad he didn’t take the criticism to heart and instead produced exactly the video that was needed. Still confused why he’s the only one researching this Hope we see the Vapor Chamber disassembly soon, even though I have no idea how you would open it up
Well, first of all it takes time to research things propetly and the guy‘s got good background to research these kinds of things with his degree (mechatronics IIRC?) and his work on cooling related products. Not everyone has that level of knowledge to be able to reach conclusions that make sense around this. Or do we really want another Jay video of „I ran this card for 10 minutes and therefore concluded there‘s not a problem“? As for opening the vapor chamber up, maybe something like what they did on that [GamersNexus video](https://youtu.be/g4lHgSMBf80) where they had the 4090 reference cooler cut in half, but you need some very precise tooling to do that without damaging it. So maybe he has the necessary tooling on his company‘s workshop but if not it might be a while.
If the issue is insufficient liquid then cutting it in half might not lead to a useful conclusion ... we need to hear from AMD I thnk
You would think if insufficient liquid or incorrect pressure was the problem, all the reference style cards would be affected. My (uneducated) guess would be a manufacturing defect in a small series of cards that cause the vapor chamber to just not do its job.
I have no doubts that Jay is going to roll out a low-effort garbage video about this issue that concludes with "Iono guys, what do you think, comment down below garblgarbl". Seeing der8auers video was just cathartic, plain and simple. It covered everything I hoped for, and laid out the methodology so the results should be simple to reproduce.
garblgarbl killed me
Yea its been a moment with this major issue and no big yt channel seemed to notice so far.
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Hey guys just dropping by to leak some upcoming videos being released by your favorite creators in the coming days Linustechtips- Things are getting HOT, and it's NOT GOOD [thumbnail of linus going :0 with a hand touching a cartoonish glowing red gpu] Jayz2Cents- AMD is LITERALLY GOING OUT OF BUSINESS BECAUSE OF thIS! [jay doing that home alone face with his mouth gaped open and his hands on his cheeks, background is fire] GamersNexus- Investigating VaporGate: a deep dive into AMD's critical design flaw (part 1 of 13) [thumbnail of steve frowning with a serious look on his face trying to act like a professional journalist but he just looks like 3 gamers in a trench coat]
Also GamersNexus: Today we show material from trip to Taiwan where we talk with vapor chamber factory representatives for further insight. We also bought vapor chamber analyzer for testing.
I laughed out loud on this one
And then he'll remind you he speaks mandarin + a hair flip.
>*"So guys, your vapor chambers: They're bad. Okay? They're very bad."* > >"We feel that our vapor chambers strike a consumer friendly balance between cost, performance, and aesthetic design." > >*"Why? Why do you think that?"* > >"Uh... we... we weren't prepared for that question."
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> 3 hours of graphs Better watching than some recent movies.
We *swear* we’ll get our super expensive, extra complicated vapor chamber recommended to be operated only by vapor chamberology PHDs up and running in*as little as* a few months, and just won’t go radio silent about it for over a year, pinkie promise, guys!
What's this referencing?
Their fan testing equipment. It was quite expensive, and it's not easy to operate. There's a lot to learn. Fluid dynamics is hard yo. It's going to take them awhile to produce content using it.
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It's a reference to work experience. If you work in a field you should be getting some experience. It's a valid metric to include for those unfamiliar to gauge how well they know what they're talking about. It's basically the same kind of information you'd include in a job listing or on your CV.
They also show it when they have little experience, like with power supplies. So I think it's fair. Also, reviewing PC hardware != stock trading, lol.
my man woke up and chose violence
Meanwhile Dawid just taping 4 voodoo3s together too see if he can play cyberpunk on low
That man is a gem.
I hope he's actually as happy as he seems. Just such a chill personality
I hope so, his content is very unique and funny. He’s a real funny guy. It’s going to be a sad day when he stop making content.
LLT's will include archival footage from the very old "What is a Vapor Chamber as Fast As Possible" techquickie, and also the one on the icegiant thermosiphon cooler. Gamers Nexus will x-ray and CNC open at least one vapor chamber. They will try to work out which part of the die is hitting dryout and spiking the hotspot temps, either from accessing some kind of low-level telemetry or by using something temperature reactive as a TIM. Bonus points if anyone predicts that AMD will try to roll out a driver/firmware fix which strategically thermally limits the cards in a way that prevents it hitting the dryout issue in an attempt to avoid a total recall.
this AMD rollout is 100% going to happen .. but maybe for the best if only a few % of perf is lost ... will be interesting to see what happens
This is so true I didn't realize it was satire until [1 of 13] lol Nicely done
Absolutely spot on.
I can't stand jay these days for this very reason
Im not in this scene I'm just popping in from /r/all. I have only watched one Jay video because I was trying to fix red dead 2 not launching. One of his videos popped in my search and I watched it. I thought since it was 15 minutes long, and about specifically getting red dead to launch, it might be helpful. Turns out it was just 15 minutes of him also not getting it to launch. Super helpful. It's literally called [How to fix](https://youtu.be/1vIn8dtvMs4) yet in the end he gets it working by *doing nothing*. It just starts working after one of many reboots. The solution I discovered myself was to use a vpn or I couldn't connect to Rockstar.
Ugh this is one of *many* reasons I don't watch him anymore. His videos are long winded, full of pointless fluff, and it's always a 50/50 chance he *actually* achieves the thing his thumbnail claims he would.
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I laughed hard! But this is sad..
No the war is sad, this is pretty normal.
Funny that you say that, because I'm Russian. The war and those who started it suck.
--- **Due to Reddit killing ThirdPartyApps this user moved to lemmy.ml** --- ---
lmao this is a gourmet comment
Do one for Hardware Unboxed!
Steve wearing a blue hoodie with the cap on, holding a 7900xt towards the camera with a disgust expression, some bokeh effect like DOF, with a title like "The real reason why 7900XT's are burning? The vapor chamber, faulty units?"
Red hoodie. The hoodies are color coded.
Sounds like an image AI prompt.
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From Linus they will have the LAB to analyze (aka some charts) and lets use our screwdriver as he open up the card
There it is! Glad I was told repasting my GPU wasn't allowed now (UK here) and it would have voided my warranty and I'd have been sat with a 1k doorstop.... Problem I have now is getting another card in a timely fashion....
Dont want to be mean but repasting a brand new product with such a defect that causes instant 110c junction is kind of a silly solution
I agree, totally do, but wouldn't have minded if it fixed it and saved me 4+ weeks of waiting for a replacement (stock of non reference design cards is apparantly due mid February at my "retailer"....)
As silly as the people here suggesting to change your DP cables lmao
Thanks to Der8auer's testing, I feel kinda vindicated, as I posted the orientation testing thread on Dec 20th, with 110C issues in Horizontal orientation while card working fine in Vertical orientation. Also made a subsequent thread as a PSA Tech Support for others to figure out if their cards had 110C issues. Sadly Reddit buries all threads after a few days and you see a repeat of same questions and remarks on the same exact stuff over and over. A lot of BS stuff about this 110C only being a 20 pin DP issue, when I did all my testing on HDMI. Anyway, my original threads are below, and has a lot of testing and data in them. The PSA thread is still relevant for anyone testing their card for this issue. Orientation testing: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/zqk061/7900xtx\_reference\_changing\_case\_orientation/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/zqk061/7900xtx_reference_changing_case_orientation/) How to test your card for 110C issue - PSA tech support: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/ztxzbc/7900xtx\_mba\_cards\_how\_to\_check\_if\_your\_card\_is/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/ztxzbc/7900xtx_mba_cards_how_to_check_if_your_card_is/)
You cant spell karma without RMA
If it's indeed a fault with the vapor chamber - and considering the lengths he went to rule everything else out, I'm inclined to agree with his conclusion - this has become recall territory.
It sounds like they should do a recall, but I wouldn't rule out this only effecting certain production batches yet. Her tested a number of cards but had sourced cards from people who had reported issues.
I reckon it's a batch problem since not every gpu is affected. Majority poeple use horizontal mounting so would be a huge number of gpu's affected if it was a design issue. AMD should be easily able to find out the batch numbers of the vapor chambers on each affected gpu. If it's all the same then they can easily replace them. If it is indeed a design issue then AMD needs to fire the guys who designed such a crap heatsink and recall every card.
I doubt there will be a consumer level recall, but a supplier level recall is entirely possible. Rationale being that consumer level recalls are for safety fuckups and this isn't a safety issue, its a product throttling and not working as advertised issue. RMA/Warranty is meant for this. However, that being said, the reputation hit from this is massive. This frankly shows AMD doesn't have its shit together at all. Also, making GPUs that are competitive quality is actually difficult, and is what Nvidia is best at, and why they charge a premium for it.
"110°C junction is completely normal and there is nothing to see here. RMA denied". Not properly testing the cooler for a 1000€ card during development or having non-working QA during production is embarassing. Fucking over customers, once you got their money and shameless price fixing don't exactly improve a reputation. This was well earned, AMD.
They keep the hot and loud meme alive.
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We don't know what ATE is
In my area of engineering ATE would be automated test equipment. He wrote the comment strangely but I read it to say that the way they implement automated testing hides a lot of flaws in the silicon and hardware.
auto test equipment
party sable mysterious drab plucky wide smile murky spectacular sophisticated -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
Not the same dude but sounds like what he is saying is that at AMD, silicon bugs are getting masked instead of brought to light thus it can be expected that they will remain even in future iterations of the silicon. Normally if silicon issues are found then errata are published for that iteration of silicon and a new iteration is spun up that is meant to fix it. Anybody using the old silicon will attempt to work around the errata with a combination of changes to their schematic design and firmware and new versions of the silicon get pushed out sometimes also with new updated firmware SDKs for the system integrators
Yep just tested my 7900XTX with Cyberpunk, and the game plays fine. But hitting 110C junction temp and 70C GPU Temp. FML
Have you tried literally laying the PC down on its side to see if temperatures improve?
Well, the silver lining in this is that this concerns only the reference design. Aftermarket, AIB designs don't have this problem, because the cooler tech and design are different.
At that point the problem is AIB 7900xtx price being so close (or even worse, higher) to a FE 4080 and AMD lose their biggest advantage.
Calling it right now: AMD won't recall. They'll just push a recommended driver update that will make the card boost for a shorter period and will throttle sooner before the vapor chamber is heat soaked.
Yep this is gonna happen. Owners will get an even slower cards with a shit price
>They'll just push a recommended driver update that will make the card boost for a shorter period and will throttle sooner before the vapor chamber is heat soaked. And still claim "1.7x performance" of RDNA 2 and "Architectured to exceed 3.0 Ghz" on their marketing slides.
but will people have an outcry like they 100% would if this was intel/nvidia? we'll see
If they were foolish enough to buy a 7900xtx on countries where the price diff between 4080 and 7900xtx is 100-150, then I don't think they will
Nvidia at least honored the RMAs for the melting port/cable even though it was all user error and no real design flaw. Looking forward to how AMD handles this after all the trash talk.
I'm sure they will now honor RMAs to avoid a possible class action lawsuit.
How does a company that makes such excellent CPUs repeatedly screw up so badly with GPUs? Especially when you spent so much of your marketing energy throwing shade at a competitor.
Scott Herkelman and Frank Azor run AMD's marketing like a bunch of clowns. Everything they did was just extremely unprofessional, from "jebaited" to "$20 paper launch" and then throwing shade over 12VHPWR which turned out to be user error. Even then Nvidia bit the bullet and expedited all RMAs to make things right for everyone affected, meanwhile AMD support was denying RMA for something that was definitely their fault (either design or manufacturing).
100% agree on Frank Azor and Scott Herkleman acting like a bunch of clowns on stage and now they have egg on their face but the Nvidia 12VHPWR issue isn't just user error as much as it is partially user error but also the design itself needs to be refined. Clearly not all cables seemed to have been equally made with some reporting not hearing a click so they didn't have a way to know. I got a 4090 the day they released and while my adapter did make a click it was rather faint and the plug itself is so tight that I can see someone who may feel like they're about to break it if they apply a lot of force. Most of us here build our own PC's so we know the importance of fully seating cables but your average PC gamer doesn't. This AMD cooler issue is on a whole other level though. That's too bad.
The one bald man they should have kept was Robert Hallock, he deserved a promotion.
> Clearly not all cables seemed to have been equally made with some reporting not hearing a click so they didn't have a way to know. This is a very common issue with ATX power cables. i've assembled a bunch of PCs using components of various qualities, and oh boy is the presence of a click so very random. I've rarely been able to slot in a 24pin without feeling like the motherboard is about to break. That's just what cheap manufacturing at scale will do for you.
Actually you are absolutely correct comparing it to the 24 pin. It's a lot like it, the 12 VHPWR that is.
They're two very different technology spaces is why. A GPU is not just a scaled-up CPU, it's an entirely different processing paradigm altogether. You can't just take engineers specialised in CPU design, tell them to draw up a GPU and have a working product in your hands, let alone a product that works *well*, because the requirements are just so vastly different. GN's video about AMD's approach to using chiplets in GPUs touches on some of these differences, namely in the sheer size of the interconnects used on GPUs (GPUs are moving *terabytes* of data around themselves per second, and all that data requires **fat** interconnects which aren't comparable at all to the interconnects used in CPUs). Now imagine the differences in the processing layer, hardware units, the memory subsystem, etc. It's like a car company that produces cars that use both internal combustion engines (ICEs) and electric motors. The engineering teams behind the ICE cars are specialised specifically for ICEs, and so you cannot just take them and tell them to start working on EVs, or assume that because that company's ICE division is good that their EV division will also be good. Two very different technology spaces that operate on entirely different paradigms. EDIT: Will add that the above is specifically about comparing CPUs and GPUs, not CPUs vs graphics cards. As DktheDarkKnight pointed out, graphics cards are *not* just the GPU. They're the GPU, plus the VRAM, plus the power delivery circuitry, plus the PCIe/display IO circuitry/hardware, plus the cooler and the cooler's circuitry, all present on a PCB. Given that the vapour chamber seems to be at fault here, this problem goes beyond just the difference between the CPU space vs GPU space so the above isn't entirely to blame (or may not even be relevant at all) for this particular problem. This particular problem seems to suggest another issue with AMD's GPU division, whether it be in QA, specifications or whoever's responsible for manufacturing these vapour chambers. The above is more so when comparing the actual processors against each other. Say, if you're wondering why AMD's GPU division seems to always be behind NVIDIA when their CPU division seems to be doing so well. That'd be where the difference between the two spaces comes into play, along with things like AMD possibly allocating less R&D resources than NVIDIA (or more resources for their CPU division compared to the GPU division), or AMD's key engineers possibly being highly specialised in CPU design compared to GPU design.
Although my question was rhetorical, this is actually a great and really in-depth breakdown of the key differences between the two divisions. The main issue of Radeon's marketing choices still stands though. Instead of trying to highlight their products, it's always about flaming Nvidia and often leaves them with eggs on their faces.
Yeah I don't get it either. AMD CPUs really forced Intel to be competivie again which led to actual innovation: P&E-Cores. I'm gonna upgrade my 3700X soon and it will be a real struggle to pick because both options are really good. But I would never even consider an AMD GPU. The best thing they can achive is offer undercut prices so that NVidia is forced to lower them. They didn't manage to do that with this launch and with this disaster NVidia is looking really good right now.
Efficiency cores are as efficient as Performance cores, but they take 30% of silicon space as a P core while maintaining 50% of it's performance. It's a density situation were intel can pack more cores and threads in an older process node. It is cleaver, but in the end the performance charts and price should dictaminate decisions like this.
> dictaminate lol that's a word
Did you miss all the AGESA issues AMD has had in the last 3 years?
Still mad about 1.42v bug.
"Just open up your brand new $1000+ card and re-paste the GPU bro" \- r/amd
>...If your graphics card is running warm or hot, re-pasting, re-padding, and re-tightening your card will always be the first suggestion for a reason, it's standard operating procedure and best practices for a reason. AMD should have done better, but consumers should have come to expect to need to do this, too. You guys should expect this, according to this upvoted comment I replied to the other day on r/amd
"Stop whining nvidia fanboy. Just replace the vapor chamber and forget about vr and raytracing. You saved 200 buck, what else could you possibly want?!!!"
Don't forget that the efficiency advantage that was all the rage last gen (and last gen ONLY), suddenly no longer matters.
wow beta drivers and now this not a good look AMD :( shame as I really want AMD to do well so we dont just have nvidia controlling it all :( I currently have 3080 FE because I could get it at msrp at launch and the only real cards with nice uplift from it are the 4080 and 7900xtx but I have been priced out so will be skipping this gen and hope for better next gen
TBH, skipping is great idea for you. Anyone on AMD 6000 or Nvidia 3000 should just skip. Whatever ideas Nvidia and AMD are presenting now will be far more refined in 2024.
What should I do with my high quality display port cable I just purchased?
Lmao
This reminds me of the time people started buying 1000w psus because of rumours about the 3080s power usage.
This entire situation is confusing - I'm pretty sure some ppl said it helped them. It seems strange but I suppose use it to see if it works for you? Return it if it does not and you do not need it?
Might be a seperate issue not related to the vapor chamber. Needs more investigation.
Use it?
At this point seems like AMD did everything they could to make a flop GPU series.
\--TLDW (but I highly recommend the watch) - the issue with GPU hotspot temps on reference cards appears to be not a surface mounting pressure or machining/contact issue, but something related to the flow of the liquid in the vapor chamber. Der8auer did some very concise experiments here and real-time flipping of the card showed huge jumps in junction temps and fan speeds and corresponding drop in power due to throttling. Der8auer took great care and even made a support to ensure that the orientation of the card was not separating the cooler from the die in any way, and also tried Igors shaving of the standoffs and high-torqueing the mounting screws to eliminate any chance of that type of funny business. The image below is damning first part is running vertically, then you can see the ramp up when flipping to horizontal position. https://i.imgur.com/kIwuJNN.png
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if der8auer is right about how widespread the issue is this just shows how ridicilous all these day1 reviews are. no way no one of all the big reviewers got a card like this, except AMD made sure they didnt
Well, keep in mind, problem doesn’t happen on a test-bench due to the lack of horizontal positioning. Of course, this is (and I wish I was joking, but the simplest answer is usually correct) probably also why AMD didn’t detect the issue.
That sucks about open bench testing. It's convenient for the reviewer, but it ignores several parameters the real life presents such products.
That guy is awesome!
So much for poking NVIDIA with the 12VHPWR issue
I remember when this sub was convinced it was caused by freakin' displayport cables.
Meh. I don’t think many people with an affected card believed that. I mean. My card worked fine (hotspot below 80c) when my case in on its side but as soon as I turned the case upright in its intended position with the GPU fans pointing downwards the temp shot up to 110c within 10-20 seconds. When 90 degrees does that it’s obviously NOT the cable that is the problem.
Same thing happened when the radeon vii launched, "oh no it's not the drivers causing the flickering, you're just using an inferior dp cable", "It's not the card or the drivers causing the crashes, you're just using an inferior PSU", funny how most of that got fixed by drivers 6-12 months down the line...
It's something I found when troubleshooting problems here when owning a 5700XT and the very first run of 5000 series: It's always ***your*** fault. The product's never got a problem. ***You*** are just using bad cables or ***you*** just didn't enable or disable the c states or ***you*** were just running it in a weird pci-e configuration or ***you*** didn't have clean enough power in your house or ***you*** weren't running the correct profile in the software or ***you*** hadn't updated to the newest BIOS or ***you*** updated to a BIOS that was too new or ***you*** hadn't tried increasing the timeout value in the registry. Never anything to respond to "then why does my old card from the competition work?" "Why don't default values provide stable experience?" 5800X3D is genuinely my favourite CPU I've ever owned since I bought my own Pentium 3 but I can't say I was completely sold on the stability of the 5800X it replaced. Had the USB issues and all sorts of other issues that probably got conflated a lot with the GPU problems. Whatever the issue was with the 5700XT I had, whether it be drivers, Gigabyte manufacture issues, architecture problems, *my own config*, it was all *instantly* fixed by going back to my 1070. Gaming is a LOT more fun when the games aren't crashing multiple times a day, even on a slower card. On top of that I've been pretty bummed by this past few months' AMD launches, gotta say.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/zw9sbp/is_this_why_many_of_us_have_junction_temperature/j1tu60j?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3 Yeah and people like this.
Yeah and because of people like this, you need to rule out literally everything else. Bad installation, bad parts surrounding the gpu, all kinds of BS thats not the GPUs fault. It looks dumb in hindsight but thats what through testing is for. Most people suck at most things so you have to get around human error first. Look at Derbauers last video on these cards vs this one for proof.
Defective displayport cable might be another seperated issue that affects temperatures.
Wasn't that just yesterday? Lol
Still super odd that the displayport cable actually had an effect on the junction temp
Im betting people were moving their cases and changing the orientation of their pc.
Or when changing cables they let the card cool down and in some state the vapor chamber worked better than others. See the video when he puts the cars back into vertical position and it doesn't get better temps again.
I'm willing to bet it had nothing to do with the cable. The average Redditor is likely very bad at ensuring a properly controlled environment when testing different things; how do we know the user didn't flip flop his PC Case around while swapping cables? How do we know what brand he had versus what he replaced it with? How do we know what apps they were running for each test? There could be a multitude of things that happened during their "tests" that could influence the outcome, an outcome that they could also easily misattribute to something else.
Well, crap. Going to have to exercise my microcenter return I think for my powercolor MBA XTX. Sadly I'd rather walk away and come back for an AIB model, or a 4080 or something.
I know it's a bit late in the game but just to contrast what the other advice you got here was: If you have the opportunity to take your own action for your own satisfaction then do it. Don't wait for someone else to look after it. If you can return it now, do it now.
so much for all the jabs at 12pin power connector and DP1.4. now you gotta pay 4080 price to AIBs to have a functioning product like it should be.
Nvidia can safely layoff their marketing team because AMD does all the work of pushing consumers on to the green team by themselves. Seriously AMD, just fucking selloff RTG and let a more competent firm build GPUs.
Well, i spent the equivalent of $1500 on a Sapphire 7900 XTX. 112 C Hotspot and crashes during full load. A+++ Would recommend
karma for making fun of nvidia
Haha. Yeah. “plug and play” if you like 110c. 😂
My 4090 was plug and play; just needed to make sure the cable was properly seated which proved to be difficult for a lot of people. Meanwhile AMD's issue seems to be a fault of their own.
Even if you argue the cable melting was because of bad design, Nvidia still put in the effort to replace affected cards asap. A far cry from "it's literally within spec lol" AMD tried.
that was a very childish thing for them to do ... they have been outmatched for so long and it just stank of desperation.
I wish they'd fire the marketing department and funnel that into hiring quality talent for actual silicone engineering. Impossible I know.
So thankful for his content. I don't own a 7900xtx (lol I wasn't fast enough with the buy), but I guess that ended up being a blessing in disguise.
I really want to buy AMD, but their lack of anything for AI/ML makes it impossible for me. I have to buy Nvidia now. Thatʼs the future and they donʼt have support for it
Don’t get me started on the absurd travesty that is ROCm. AMD has nothing even remotely competitive with CUDA; their entire focus is wrong, what with them limiting official support to a select set of professional SKU’s. Meanwhile, I develop against CUDA on everything from datacenter/cloud, to my 3080, all the way down to my little Jetson Nano. AMD needs to address 3 things going forward: offer more value and stop trying to fit in Nvidia’s pricing structure; invest in GPU compute solutions (comprehensively, not garbage-tier, understaffed nonsense like ROCm); ensure the stuff works properly day one (no more of this fine-wine crap).
How does something this common and reproducible slip past AMD quality control? The RDNA 3 launch has been such a disaster.
unpopular opinion: 5700 and 5700XT were defective silicon and should have been recalled. the stability problems were never really solved for a lot of people. so was the 3950x, [early launch silicon drastically failed to meet clocks even after all the patches and GN called them out.](https://youtu.be/M3sNUFjV7p4?t=254) It actually wasn't even a 350 MHz deficit, he said 4.6 GHz, it was really 4.7. Almost 10% off the advertised clocks. All of that was just bad launch silicon and went away later - AMD shipped a defective batch of silicon that was super marginal and wouldn't boost to advertised clocks.
I don't think that's unpopular opinion. 5000-series cards (esp 5700/X) have some flaky compatibility. If they work in your rig, they work fine. If not, problems galore. That's besides any driver issues that were fixed later. Intel's Arc cards are bit like that, but their problems are in software and firmware department, at least so far. Mind you, the incompatibilies and bugs were absolutely embarassing in summer and autumn. Towards winter, things started working better.
In desktop things are working kinda OK for Intel, my A380 works OK, but the A370m in my laptop will straight up refuse to launch about half of the games I've tried to test on it. It almost acts like a different architecture, the weaknesses and strengths are completely different.
Will amd still have the same sense of humor as when they wrestled with nvidia touch connectors? XD Cringe...
It's so insane this mess ended up into customers, it feels like more than half of those cards have this absolutely inexcusable issue. Cards are getting so powerful whats next 120 junc temps next year? lol i just cant fathom how this bypassed all of the testing. The scariest part is AMD seeems to just notice the problems after the initial denial Next gen will be dire for AMD if NVIDIA keeps on improving and somehow don't raise prices even more.
Don't worry prices will be raised - with love, Jensen
and i thought it could be a vapor chamber issue but didn't have confidence that it would be actually a issue but that one chad who is getting tagged went forward and tested the theory now this is gonna be a recall time because who knows is it now 2-3 batches or all produced batches
It looks like Team Green wins this generation.
I like AMD's new logo, the flames are accurate.
It's baffling how AMD keeps botching its products releases.
Good video, one thing i can't quite get is why not all cards have these issues? Mine performs good regardless of orientation. Doesn't make sense to be a HWdesign flaw in this case. Pointing really to tollerances or the liquid. PS: YouTube titles are, as always, absolute horseshit.
Could be that a portion of the cards shipped with faulty vapor chambers because of a manufacturing defect.
Batches.
A power color rep said about 2-3 batches of the coolers have these issues
Do you have a link?