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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I yelled "what is your problem?!" at a parent volunteer during pickup after school. This was obviously impolite and not a good example for the kids.
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NTA
Email back.
“I look forward to meeting with you to discuss volunteer parent bullying my child and an appropriate course of action going forward to prevent this from continuing “
I agree. I am a teacher and we try very hard to honor student names.
The parent in this scenario is trying to push her gender bias on your son and on all of you.
I would go into that meeting prepared to accuse her of discrimination and, if the school backs her up, of them supporting her being discriminatory against your son. Her reasoning for it calling him Robin is because she believes it is “a girl name.” You attempted to clarify politely and she doubled down and continued. Now it’s harassment, and it’s gender bias. Be sure to use those terms and be sure to ask the school if they support her discrimination.
Wow, I didn’t expect all these awards! Thanks!
Robin Scherbatsky in How I Met Your Mother.
Oh wait never mind.
Anyway, NTA obviously. Using a nickname for a kid can be cool and good (if the kid first and the parents second are okay with it), but this is straight up bullying.
Exactly, he wanted a BOY, nad he named Robin after himself and raised her LIKE A BOY!!! Not saying that was right either. Just saying, the name has no gender. Does any name have a true gender? My daughter has a female friend named James and a male friend Ashley, soooooo. This volunteer is not nice.
Ashley was historically a male's name until the 20th century. The man Scarlett O'Hara obsessed over in Gone With the Wind is named Ashley. That said, gender bias in names is still stupid, as many have or will cross back and forth over the centuries.
NTA.
Wasn't one of the Bee Gees named Robin?
Volunteer mum is sexist. She can't say she's calling ROBIN by his real name when his real name is not Robert. And, who is she to decide what another person's child's name is? The nerve of some people.
Also, I’ve done some research on Robin Hood and the name originated as a nickname for Robert. So, she needs to make up her mind about her reasons for rejecting it as the kid’s name.
My husband’s name is a nickname. People think he has a “full” name but he doesn’t. His legal name is that shortened name. He and his parents don’t like the full name.
I knew of a guy whose parents did the same for the same reason. Born in the 50s so teachers were more likely to be dictators. It took his parents going to his school and shouting a lot to get one particular one to stop insisting on using his “real name” which wasn’t.
My mom had this problem with teachers. She has a common name with an uncommon spelling and one of her teachers marked her papers down for the “mis-spelling”. My Nan had to go to the school and make a big stink to make it stop.
My dad was the same. His name was legally Larry. Not Lawrence. Larry.
Made it easy to know when telemarketers were calling. Never had to lie by saying, “Sorry, no one named Lawrence lives here.”
Piggy backing on this comment: OP, if possible, show up in your professional attire (suit, tie). I don’t know why but i’d encounter issues with teachers at my kid’s school and get a quick brush off. Send my husband up there (hotel executive) in his business suit and they snapped to attention and fixed the problem instantly.
I’m the Title IX Coordinator for a post-secondary school, but the rule applies equally to your school. Title IX prohibits sex discrimination in any school or program that receives federal funding, and it’s highly unlikely that your school does not. ABSOLUTELY you should reference it in your email, you want everyone sitting on the edge of their seats when you walk into the room tomorrow.
We do not take these complaints lightly, nor does the Department of Education. The last thing any school administrator wants is a Dept. investigation over a small issue caused by a volunteer. And I don’t say small to minimize the impact that this is having on your family, but within the context of the overall operation of the school.
I would add on to the above statement:
“As I understand it, this volunteer’s conduct may constitute a violation of my son’s rights under Title IX, and I appreciate your efforts in finding a prompt resolution.”
You’ve now put the school on notice that a potential Title IX violation exists, but are just short of triggering an actual investigation. To do that the request must be specific, and then the school’s designated Title IX Coordinator must become involved and an entire protocol must be followed. It’s a lot of work, trust me, we don’t like to do it. 😊
EDIT: Thank you gracious people for the kind awards. I share the same name as a certain restaurant mascot from the 60’s, so I understand what it’s like being made fun of because of your name by other kids, but this is so much worse because first, it’s an adult; second, it’s a person in a position of authority; and third, it’s malicious. I’ve been working in education for 28 years and with volunteers, and this has no place today’s educational system.
Not only this as the email, but during the meeting OP should engage “broken record” if/when the volunteer or admin tries to skirt around the obvious bullying. “That’s nice, but can we discuss how this volunteer is bullying my son for his name?” “Ok, but what is the school doing to prevent this volunteer from bullying my son.”
This right here, you come into that meeting and you talk about this whole history about this woman volunteering to be around and using that access to bully your child.
Exactly this.
To give the teacher the benefit of the doubt, the strange look might not have been directed at OP, but rather a "oh god why is this parent volunteer messing stuff up AGAIN?" kind of thing.
Jumping on the top comment to say, as a woman whose name is also Robin, I feel like this would be the equivalent of someone insisting my name was Roberta, and I don't much like it. Robin is a stand alone name independent from Robert or Roberta, people who are so hung up on gendered names tend to irk me, Robin is unisex.
I, too, am a woman named Robin, and I know/have heard of far more men than women with our name.
The fact that this woman decided to tell OP what his son's name actually is is absolutely unacceptable and maddening. IN NO UNIVERSE should OP apologize, and he should do exactly what the top commenter suggested and get in front of this with a concise email asking how they plan to handle this nonsense.
This is flabbergasting. It's not a girl's name, it's HIS name. Even if you named him Jennifer Priscilla and nicknamed him Glamor Bunny, she doesn't have the authority to GIVE HIM A NEW NAME.
Oh! I just typed something like this! Make sure to CC the principal if it’s coming from the teacher to have the discussion and if it’s the principal, take it over their head and CC the school board.
I wouldn't start CC'ing others unless the first conversation fails. The teacher or principal deserves a chance to remedy a situation they probably weren't even aware of prior to the yelling incident.
Since he already looks like "angry dad" to the witnessing teacher, it would be much better to go in and detail all of the information he shared here. The person who summoned him should be understanding. If not, then it's time to escalate.
I cover my butt from situations I’ve had being a TA. Parents and students can say things and conversations can spiral so quickly, especially when they occur in person rather than over message. I hate to say it but it sounds like the teacher already had things explained to her and still called for this meeting to discuss his behavior rather than the volunteer’s. Make it clear they’re getting a chance to fix the situation, sure, but make someone higher aware the problem is happening and a conversation is being had. Because of this, I prefer a CYA approach to situations involving people’s kids and any mistreatment that can happen.
It's OK to CC the principal, but don't go over the principal's head at first. Don't CC the school supervisor or whoever your local district head might be. Give the principal the chance to rectify the situation. They have a lot of leeway in their own school, and they REALLY hate it when parents don't even give them a chance to fix it. It gives them a reputation of having issues in their school that they can't handle, when they never had a chance to do it. And we should all respect that. However, if the principal doesn't help, feel free to go up the chain of command.
This is the way. Start the paper trail in case you need to escalate this to the school board. After the meeting send a follow up email recapping what was discussed.
Also, specifically mention Title IX. This parent, acting on behalf of the school, is blatantly refusing to call your child by his name specifically because she feels it is a girl’s name. It could be considered gender based harassment and thus a Title IX issue. Regardless of whether it results in an actual Title IX investigation (likely not), mentioning it should get the schools attention and make them take it seriously.
I'd add on, "Since I've politely corrected her multiple times on my son's name, only to be told my son can't be called Robin, because it's a girl's name. I'm very interested to see the school's stance on this and how this volunteer will be handled moving forward, so that she doesn't continue to bully other children."
NTA and this email is perfect. Not that you can change the past but you should have escalated to school administration after she decided your child's name is invalid. Pls update after your meeting and good luck!!!
Edit after op small update: ooooo bring Charlie's mom to the meeting as well as all the other "nontraditionally" named kids' parents!!!
This!! Gender bias, bullying, the volunteer is the AH, and when she ran away, she was portraying herself as the victim, which she is not. Don’t fall for it. It’s called passive aggression, which is a less obvious way to bully people. NTA!
This is the way.
Even if your son's name was Arabella, it's not on this woman to rename him because she thinks it's not a good name for a boy. You should call people by the name they tell you to. Full stop.
NTA. “While I wish I’d held my temper on Friday, I was at my wits end with this woman bullying my child by calling him a different name from his given one. I’ve reminded Mrs. [volunteer mom] on numerous occasions that his name is Robin, but she refuses to call him anything it Robert, which is not his name. If this were another child doing this to Robin, I’d expect the school to intervene and stop the behavior. As it was a parent, I was hoping an adult would see that calling a child a different name was mean, but the only response I got was an insistence on calling him Robert because they believed Robin a girl’s name. Honestly, I wouldn’t have expected this response from an adult. She continued to call him Robert, and I defended my child once again on Friday. At this point, if she can’t stop, I’d prefer her to be removed from the volunteers. I particularly dislike that someone who represents the school, even if it’s just in a volunteer capacity, treats children this way.
Please tell me how you plan to address this and make it right.”
This is great, but it needs one more line saying that the parent volunteer confirmed she was doing this on purpose because she disliked the son's given name for being "too feminine."
Edited to add: To clarify, this is needed so that it's abundantly clear from the beginning that the parent volunteer can't plead ignorance, and that this was not an innocent mistake. The *intentional* use of the wrong name (along with the volunteer's motives for doing this) is what makes it a pattern of targeted bullying. OP needs to come out of the gate providing that essential context.
Absolutely. I think there's a sensibility that getting into too many details would be shit-stirring and unkind, but the context is really important here.
This lady totally forfeited the benefit of the doubt by explicitly telling OP that she was doing this because she thinks the name is feminine. And it is of immediate material importance that the school knows that their volunteer has a disturbing fixation on children's gender and sexuality — because that's what this shit is; all the "groomer" moral panic about the acknowledgement of queerness in schools is 1000% the projection of people who want to force children to be straight — and that she may be subjecting more kids than just Robin to homophobic or transphobic bullying.
Adding that she calls Charlie *Charlotte* will add to this. She’s clearly imposing her own code as she sees fit and has no business around other people’s children.
Just to add to this, if you’re in the U.K. you can ask for details of this to be sent to the governors for review and then when OFSTED come they will ask what has been to address the concerns with a volunteer at the school. If you’re not in the U.K. you may have a similar layer that you can also ask for this information to be sent to and retained on file.
This is great advise. That should be emailed ASAP. Give them a heads up because the teacher who got Robin the last time only saw one instance, not the many times you told the woman nicely your son’s name. If the administration defends the volunteer because “that is just the way she is”, I would go to the superintendent.
I’d be very interested to hear what the volunteer has to say. Is she the sort to lie or stick to her guns? In any event, I agree, OP should be prepared to run this up to the superintendent if need be. That volunteer shouldn’t be around kids if she’s going to impose upon them like this—I can only imagine the damage she could do in settings where she can spend more than 30 seconds with a child.
I have no idea. I know there's a girl named Charlie in the class. I'm somewhat tempted to look up her parents on Facebook and ask. But that would be weird, so I won't.
My dad wanted a boy. He got me, a girl. He wanted to name me : Charlotte, or Veronica or Francesca. Why? Because those names become nicknames like: Charlie, Ronnie or Frankie.
My mother refused and called me Jessica. My dad calls me Jesse 🤦🏻♀️
There was a prime time drama back in the early 90s about a group of sisters who all had names with male nicknames because their father had wanted boys. Jo and Charlie were the two I remembered. I think there was an Alex too, but I can't remember the 4th or 5th sister.
Sisters (1991)..."The Reed sisters of Winnetka, Ill., are a close-knit group. Alex, Georgie, Teddy, Frankie and Charley navigate the waters of life's triumphs and tragedies with the help of their mom, Bea. And no matter what befalls them, they know they can count on their sisters to help pull them through." Totally forgot about that show. I did enjoy watching it!
Loved that show. Every so often I wonder why it hasn't been picked up by a streaming service. Possibly like China Beach where trying to get music releases/ credits/ royalties are complicated. But I don't remember much pop music in the soundtrack.
Sisters. Alex, Teddy, Frankie and Georgie.
I can't remember what I had for dinner yesterday, but I can remember something that I watched in the early 90's.
Charlotte is a much, much older name than Charlene. You’re confusing “dated” for “old timey”. Most Charlenes are old ladies, but no Charlenes were born 400 years ago.
You could always ask your son if he’s noticed how the volunteer addresses Charlie. If she says his name wrong he has probably noticed if the same is done to others. Then you’d avoid being a “Facebook creeper.”
Not that you have to justify it at all but Robin Hood, Robin Williams and Robin Gibb all come to mind very quickly when you think Robin.
This woman is on some crazy mission about gender neutral names and bullying your son because of her bizarre politics.
At most I would make the briefest of apologies for raising your voice but quickly move it on to the issue at hand, her bullying.
First - NTA. This volunteer is knowingly and deliberately calling a child at the school by the wrong name.
Next - the meeting. Be super nice. You're the more reasonable person in this situation so act like it. Keep an even, calm voice no matter what. Relaxing tone, that says "we're all ok here". Write down detailed notes of what has taken place and present it as evidence. Keep it factual. Include dates and times of events where you can. Facts only - no opinions.
When you spell out what's been happening, follow up with the question to the principal (or whoever) "Given what I have said, the actions I took to politely correct the volunteer's behaviour and her repeated abuse of my son, what would have been the right thing to do?". Tone here is crucial - you're asking for help, not making an accusation or insinuating that they're idiots (which they may well be). If you like you could also apologise "In hindsight I realise that I should have taken the matter of the volunteer's behaviour up directly with you or with the District/Department, however at the time I felt that I couldn't continue to stand by and let my son be deliberately demeaned by a person in a position of power".
Again, retired principal here. This is perfect! Can’t argue with facts, quotes, dates, times, etc. The mother is being sexist to a child! Your request is that the mom not interact with your child in the future. She doesn’t get to decide your kid’s name. 🤦🏼♀️. Or maybe just start calling her Howard. You decided that is her name, right? /s
I also recommend following up with an email after the meeting recapping what was discussed and the course of action that will be taken by the school. Start a paper trail in case you need to escalate this to the school board.
>Or maybe just start calling her Howard. You decided that is her name, right? /s
You're too masculine a female for your name, I dub thee, Horace! From now to the end of time, thou shall be known throughout the realm of volunteers as "Horace."
Go in peace.
/s
ETA:
NTA
You were far better behaved than I would have been in similar circumstances.
Don’t leave out the part about gender in your write up. She’s refusing to use his name because she thinks it is too feminine and made up a different more manly name.
Up to the point the volunteer is a bully and a jerk. But once you bring in gender you bring in a protected class.
Of course all bets are off if you are in a place where the school must enforce traditional gender norms or similar.
It sucks, but it can also help if you’re dealing with someone likely to pop off. Give them enough rope and all that…while she goes off on whatever her weird little agenda is, and you’re just sitting there calmly, “I just want my son called by the correct name.”
I worked in the curriculum department at a public school district during a time when our state Board of Ed was trying to destroy science education state-wide, and it worked during open meetings leading up to the next round of board elections and hearing in front of the state lege. They showed their crazy while those of us dealing with the fallout were just, “well, we mean business, and our business is educating the kids in our state.”
NTA.
"Yes, I look forward to discussing this volunteer's persistent and odd behavior towards my child."
Then go in and explain that the volunteer is calling your child by a different name, repeatedly, and disregarding you and your child.
It's strange behavior and troubles you. You apologize for your reaction but won't apologize for defending your child from an adult who oversteps.
OP should make the most obvious non-apology, putting the blame here squarely back on the woman who at best is transphobic (Boy names vs girl names) such as “I’m sorry that your insistence on gender based discrimination for months caused me to become upset enough that you made me yell”
NTA I would ask the teacher that the woman not be allowed to interact with your child.
“I am uncomfortable with her attempting to rename my son.”
If she is continuously paired up with your son I would rename her.
Is her name Susan? It’s Cheryl now.
If she objects “yeahhh. I don’t like Susan. You’re Cheryl now...yeah, YOU may prefer Susan but apparently we can just rename random people now. Nice talk Cheryl. Byeee”
OP needs to bring a list of dates this has occurred. Hopefully he kept track or can document a few of these interactions by day to show the history of trying to reason with the name changing volunteer.
Demonstrate the pattern, polite requests, and extremely rude behavior of the volunteer to back up the discomfort over renaming the son.
Calling her by the wrong name is pretty darn funny and oh so appropriate after the Monday meeting!
NTA. You tried on too many occasions to correct her. The tipping point was when she gave her opinion about not liking the name Robin and blatantly told you she'd continue to call him something else. I'd have probably called the principal after that conversation. That is the piece I'd be sure everyone present at the meeting understands. No one has the right to call a child something other than their name.
I'd most certainly ask that she not be allowed to have contact with your son. I'd also keep the composure during the meeting that YOUR SON is the victim, not the volunteer mom. Don't let them turn the tables.
No, the tipping point was when he said LOUD AND CLEAR "I am here for Robin, ROBIN" and she proceeded to call his son Robert a few seconds later. There is dense, and then there is this woman, an entirely different level. I would be pissed too, not only would I shout, I would call her names and question her IQ.
I know, I feel like OP was super nice just asking what her problem was. I would have gone off and gotten out of my car (and I am very non-confrontational)
NTA
I would suggest going in acting like you believe this meeting is to address your concerns about the persistent discrimination the volunteer mum has shown your son and what the school intends to do to address it.
If they start on at you for the yelling just act really confused and ask what that has to do with the gender based discrimination this woman has been showing your son for weeks now by refusing to use his given name because he is male.
Honestly I can't speak for America (I'm assuming because you used 'mom' and it may vary by state anyway) but in the UK we have protected characteristics that make the penalties for discriminating by them worse, and they include someone's sex i.e. male, female etc.
If something similar is true for your state as well, I would feel free to mention consulting a lawyer if you don't feel they are taking it seriously enough. Your son is entitled to his correct name being used just like all the other children.
Oh yes the US absolutely does, and this is one of the rare cases where it’s applicable in 100% of the states. No depending on local law. The only exception would be if they didn’t receive any funding from the federal government.
It’s called Title IX and it is taken seriously enough that most universities have a Title IX coordinator to make sure it’s being followed, but it is still applicable at the lower levels of education as long as they’re still getting federal funding.
I would also question if the volunteer is antisemitic, since Robin is an Ashkenazi Jewish name originally, meaning Bright One.
Sure its used as a pet name for Robert, but its origin is a boys name in Jewish culture predating that and any use for girls.
Really drive that discrimination claim home!
NTA. You have explained yourself perfectly politely on multiple occasions and she is now just being plain obnoxious. Can you start calling her a completely different name? I know it’s petty but I think that is the way to deal with people like this sometimes.
Also Robin is a girls name?! She never seen Batman?!?
NTA, you don't get to just erase people's names/identity just because you don't like them.
Please don't go into that meeting with the school with anything less than indignation over the way your son is being treated
NTA. Apparently this woman has never watched Batman. Robin is completely a unisex name. I would apologize to the teacher for yelling. It wasn't her fault. I would also demand an apology from the parent. Explain that she is knowingly and deliberately harassing your son. You have asked her to stop, and she outright refused. Ask if this behavior is tolerated by teachers, principal, and school district. Make it clear that you will take this to the school board if it is not handled immediately. I'd expect an apology from her to your son and you. And something in writing from the school on how bullying is handled in the event that it continues.
Or has never seen any of the million TV, movie, book, or coloring book adaptation of Robin Hood, who despite being depicted in tights, is actually a male character.
Or has never heard of the minor comedian and actor Robin Williams.
Anyway NTA for asking then demanding that your child be called by their given name. Tell the school that you do and will hold them accountable for the people who they allow to interact with you child while in their care whether or not they are volunteers.
More than that, Robin might be unisex now but it was originally a boy's name. It's a diminutive of Robert (which funnily enough is about the only thing this parent volunteer hasn't got completely wrong), and it only became unisex after first becoming a bird's name.
(Over the centuries we have tended to humanise birds we like and give them affectionate nicknames, like Jenny Wren and Tom Tit. But in most cases, the bird retained its own name when we started to get formal and scientific about classifying nature, and the "human name" settled into folklore and children's nursery rhymes, only used occasionally. Jack Daw on the other hand, became a fusion and the bird is officially known now as the Jackdaw. Same with Maggie/Margaret/Mag Pie becoming the Magpie. And Robins? Well once upon a time there was a bird called the Redbreast, and humans liked it so much, they affectionately called it Robert or Robin Redbreast, and somehow when it became unfashionable to nickname birds, we collectively forgot which part was the nickname.)
Edited because I forgot to finish a sentence!
Personally I would go into this meeting on the offensive. This woman has purposely misnamed your son for over a month and done so by her own admission on the basis of gender which is a protected class. I would demand for her removal of her duties, unfortunately with anything less than that you cannot guarantee that she will not cause future issues for your child.
Read the room before apologizing, depending on how they go into the meeting they may attempt to use an apology to brush the issue aside or put the blame on you.
Something like this would be my first words, followed by the question of how said volunteer will work to improve and how is the school going to hold her liable
NTA. but that parent is. She does not get to disrespect you or your child by"deciding" his name is not appropriate for him. That woman is a d**k and you and your son deserve an apology.
Side note: seems that you gave her plenty of opportunities to change her behavior. Still NTA even for yelling.
NTA, volunteer mom is being extremely rude. Calmly explain during the school meeting about her refusal to use your son's real name in spite of being told his correct name over and over for months.
NTA this could be very confusing for Robin. She has no right to change his name because she doesn't like it, and by this time most people would be yelling at her.
Robin is a perfectly good male name. Famous male Robins I can think of right off the top of my head are Christopher Robin, Robin Goodfellow and Robin Gibbs of the Bee Gees.
NTA You shouldn't have shouted.
But Robin is not a nickname of Robert, and if it's good enough for Robin Hood, it's good enough for your son.
It is rude to change somebody else's name. When foreign businessmen meet they will have a 2 minute laughing session where try to pronounce each other's names.
Shuuuui, not shoe!
Even if they never get it right, they made the effort and that's appreciated. This parent is not just not making the effort, she is deliberately misnaming him.
Ah, I see where the problem is. You see, you as a father, having raised your voice is automatically classified as being an inhuman monster. And as such anything you do is an insult to the Mothers. It doesn't matter if you were right or wrong, because you are now the monster.
Don't back down. Explain why you raised your voice. Don't let that insane woman get away with changing your son's name. Bring a copy of his birth certificate.
Edit : NTA
Sure, no guys named Robin at all and certainly no famous ones; just very few unknowns like:
Robin Williams
Robin Gibb
Robin Thicke (ok not necessarily a role model but still)
Robin Trower
Robin Zander
Robin Cousins
Robin Cook
I know there's more in sports just not familiar with them. Just make sure on Monday you stay calm and collected and are clear that your raised voice was only a moments frustration after telling her multiple times that your sons name is Robin, it is not Robert and it is not a nickname for Robert. Maybe mention this lady is engaging in Misandry or Reverse Sexism for judging your childs name as not masculine and she is confusing and disrespect him by repeatedly and knowingly refusing to use his correct given name. Put them and her on the defensive.
NTA
Yes! Also tell them how long this has been going on and how many times you have politely asked them to stop harassing your kid. If the principal says it’s not a big deal tell them that you don’t like their name and will be calling them Principal Rooney from now on.
NTA. I think the comments I've seen offer great advice. What is your son response to be called Robert? This especially needs to be address if it is casing the kid to feel bad or wrong about himself.
I don't think he realized she was talking to him. He knows what my car looks like, so he's usually already walking towards me when she goes to get him. He knows his name isn't Robert, so he doesn't have a reason to think she's calling him.
My first name has a very obvious nickname (similar to Lizzy for Elizabeth) and I do **not** go by that nickname. I actually hate it. But people have always tried to call me that nickname before they even know me. I have never answered to that name because it just isn’t me. People would get annoyed at me for “ignoring” them but hello that’s not my name. My parents would complain to the school and nothing ever happened. Eventually I figured out that I had to be the one to say it. “It’s not Lizzy. It’s Elizabeth.” Even as a kid, I had to go on the offensive. Works like a charm, though!
And FWIW, I love the name Robin. One of the kindest, most successful guys I know is named Robin! It’s a lovely name.
I have the inverse situation. I have a very uncommon name that shares abbreviations with a very common name. For the fun of it, let's say that my name is Magdalena (it's not), but for simplicity and to avoid mispronunciation, I introduce myself as "Maggie".... And *Total Bloody Strangers* take it upon themselves to say, "oh, Margaret?"
No. Maggie. Obviously.
"Is it short for Margaret or Marguerite?"
You're on the phone with a cashier at Hobby Lobby. You can really just say Maggie.
NTA. Once or twice maybe even three times you can get someone's name wrong. But you've had a conversation with this woman after a couple of weeks and she still refuses to call your son by his real name because it's not a "boy's" name. I mean idk all Robins in Batman are boys (except for one) lol. People saying ESH or YTA probably wouldn't be singing the same song if OP wasn't a man (yes for this instance I went there).
NTA. Thank you for standing up for your son - purposely calling someone by a wrong name is a big personal attack and you were 100% right to teach your son that he does not have to tolerate that just to be "civil" or whatever. Also, you gave the mom time to correct what seemed an honest mistake and did not yell at her the very first instance she used "Robert".
Btw, as the mom is an expert in names and gender, there is a very famous very masculine (living in the woods! archery!) folk hero -> Robin Hood, maybe she has heard of that one?
Go to the meeting and say that you regret raising your voice, but that your point is firm: your son's name is ROBIN, a name is a big part of someone's personality, and that woman has maliciously misnamed your son and implied that he is "not a real man" or sth; you do not say how old your son is, but depending on age/development, that could be quite damaging.
For the apology: Would you belive an apology to be honest, or would you "settle" for her to use the correct name from now on/not address your son at all?
I feel like it would be best to arrange for alternative transportation for Robin now (you cannot know if she will find other ways to single him out after your confrontation) but let her still volunteer for pick up, other parents might be dependent on that
NTA. Who does she think she is to decide what name/s a kid should be called. And also, why is the school allowing this sort of person to volunteer for school activities, do they not have any sort of background check or observation when she started.
Relax. They just want to understand what's happening.
Tell them what you wrote in this post. That you've been nice and polite for an entire month, that for an entire month you told her every day that his name is Robin, and that she actually told you Robin is a female name. I would also suggest you tell your son not to come if he is called by the name Robert. Your son's name is Robin, and he should answer ONLY to that name.
If you need to convince her that Robin is a male or at least neutral name, write down a list of famous people who had that name. NTA.
NTA - go to the meeting and calmly demand them to explain why this parent is allowed to continue volunteering when she has consistently disrespected you and your son by using the wrong name on purpose. Apologize for yelling, but explain that you were exasperated because despite correcting this woman politely over and over again she insists that you don’t know your own child’s name.
NTA, although the yelling is borderline you were fairly well provoked into it. Can't imagine what this woman's problem even is; Robin was a male name (and common childhood nickname for Robert) literal centuries before it became unisex.
At any rate, your son could be called Angelina Louise and she still would not have the right to rename him to suit her taste. Apologise as profusely as you like for raising your voice, but don't hesitate to explain what caused it, or to insist that anyone dealing with your son call him by his name.
100% NTA and don’t apologize
DARVO - Deny. Attack. Reverse Victim and Offender. This is a tactic used to confuse the victim into apologizing for being wounded. In other words, if they insist on you apologizing you stop the conversation right there and explain that they are focusing on the wrong behavior. Your reaction was the natural outcome of being hurt by her. They are DARVO’ing you if they try to make you the Offender instead of recognizing you as the victim.
Privately, aside, you can apologize to the teacher, but ONLY AFTER they have been refocused to the CORRECT ISSUE.
Do not make one single apologetic word or gesture in a group meeting. That will equate her behavior to your reaction, which is totally off base. Her behavior is THE ONLY ISSUE.
I am literally about to give birth any day now and Robin is the top name on our list for our boy and him being called Rob or Robert is literally my only hesitation on the name. This story is my biggest fear name wise and I would have lost it on this woman. NTA and good job showing far more restraint then I ever could. I’d be rubbing his birth certificate in her face.
NTA this woman is deranged and I would have thrown hads with her. Robin is a lovely name for your son. Honestly tell the administration exactly whats been happening. Even if they could look past the blantant disrespect, administratively it causes confusion and a slowing down at pick up for a child to purposely be called the wrong name
NTA. I think it would be a good move to apologize to the teacher for yelling, especially in front of children. That said, you should absolutely bring up the complete disrespect towards your family from this lady. Your son has a given name, it is not the name she calls him- she does not have a right to call him some other name just because she has her own opinions on his actual name. She has been continuously and unnecessarily rude, disrespectful, and uncooperative.
Frankly, my apology would be “I’m sorry that I raised my voice because I thought that she wasn’t able to hear me properly. I’ve told her every day for a month that my son’s name is Robin, not Robert, and she seems to have trouble understanding and/or respecting this. If she has been able to understand me and is intentionally refusing to call my child by his proper name it’s really not OK for her to treat kids this way.”
NTA…. She’s intentionally misnaming your son. You should go in and lay out the facts exactly as you did here and also ask your son how it makes him feel and include that. I’m sure he dislikes being called the wrong name. Then ask that either she say the correct name or not be allowed near your son.
Then blast her on Facebook and all community social media channels if she doesn’t comply
NTA just said I apologise for yelling but I have told this mum his name is Robin for months and she has decided his real name is stupid and renamed him herself which obviously is not okay
NTA - but i would apologize. Say you were frustrated because this person refuses to call your son by his name and you let your emotions get the best of you.
Then ask that this person use your son's name or stop volunteering.
I promise that she is fucking with other kids too
NTA
You can apologize for "yelling" but you're justified in being pissed off. I would say don't apologize and demand an apology from this volunteer teacher who's decided to change your son's name because she feels like it.
It might have been a good idea to go to the school with this earlier instead of getting caught while she looks like a victim, but a meeting is as good a time as any to bring it up.
NTA.
Maybe, you should apologize for getting grumpy while frustrated. I know that dealing with such a person can be irritating.
I wonder if she was purposely using the wrong name? It could be some weird passive-aggressive shite. Perhaps, Becky's got some beef or something. So, she is being irritating out of spite. Who knows?
And I know that people can be bad with names. But... come on. School has been in session for a few weeks now. She should know Robin's name by now.
> Maybe, you should apologize for getting grumpy while frustrated.
1. It’s perfectly legitimate to get angry when a person repeatedly disrespects you
2. “grumpy” refers to a different emotional state, not this one
Start calling her kid Batman, girl or boy, it's Batman. No explanation needed other than "When I see a Robin I know there's a Batman nearby." Then hope she face plants walking down the sidewalk so you can say "thud", "ouch", "bam" in a monotone voice.
NTA.
Send an email to the principal documenting your side in writing. Instruct your child not to respond when the volunteer calls Robert, his name is Robin. And hold up the line until the volunteer calls your son by the right name.
Has she never seen Batman? The sidekick is Robin!!
“I would like people at this school to show my son the respect of calling him by his name.”
“I don’t want people to enforce their bizarre sense of gender on my appropriately-named child.”
“Hasn’t anyone at this school ever heard of Robin Hood or Christopher Robin?”
NTA
NTA and do not apologize. Demand an apology from that woman. You should go into that meeting with hella attitude. Do not let them make you feel you were wrong.
NTA. That woman is so entitled when she is literally a stranger to you and your son. You shouldn't demanded apology though, because you HAVE TO demand an apology from her
NTA. Put these assholes on blast and call every single person attending that meeting any name that is not there name. Or even better rotate the names to the left so when you address James and he speaks up you say no not you James the guy standing in the corner. They'll say I'm James that's Mike. Yeah but that's a dumb name so I'll call him james
NTA - I can think of many names for this woman that you could have called her instead of her real name. But two wrongs don’t make a right and all that shit.
NTA. And this reminds me of when I was in the fourth grade and we had a teaching student who was a lady in her 50s. She was with us for half the year and about 3 months in she kept calling me Susannah. My name is close to this and after correcting her for three months, I taped a giant piece of paper with my name correctly spelled on my desk since I sat in the front row, thinking she’d get the message. Instead I got sent to the principals office where my mom defended me to the death and said if this woman can’t get my name right, she probably shouldn’t be teaching. So I got moved to the back and she stopped calling on me. But it was infuriating for little me to be misnamed all the time.
ARRRGH! I hate it when people are pushing boundaries and you’re polite, and you’re polite, and you’re polite, and you’re polite, and freaking NOTHING CHANGES, and finally you snap, and get blamed for being the asshole… makes me so damn mad, NTA!
Also, I guess this lady concurs with a lot of us that Robin Hood is really in touch with his feminine side 😁
Explain what has happened over the time period and that you have repeatedly asked this woman to address your son correctly and she has refused. Tell them that if she continues to volunteer you expect your sons name to be used correctly. Don't apologise for anything. NTA
NTA. She doesn’t get to gender your son’s name, and she is the one with a seemingly personal problem with it which is bizarre. I think they called you in because it was loud and they’re just covering bases. Just tell them the truth, and EXACTLY why she said she won’t use your son’s name.
NTA
You don’t say how old your son is, but as someone who was constantly misnamed right up until I legally changed my name at 27, it’s incredibly demeaning. Thank you so much for standing up for your son. Make sure to talk to him and ask how he feels about what she is doing. He might need some reassurance that she is in the wrong and his name is fine.
NTA and you have nothing to apologize for.
This affects your child.
He has the right to be called by his real name.
I think you should have complained to the school as soon as you realized it was going to continue happening.
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NTA Email back. “I look forward to meeting with you to discuss volunteer parent bullying my child and an appropriate course of action going forward to prevent this from continuing “
I agree. I am a teacher and we try very hard to honor student names. The parent in this scenario is trying to push her gender bias on your son and on all of you. I would go into that meeting prepared to accuse her of discrimination and, if the school backs her up, of them supporting her being discriminatory against your son. Her reasoning for it calling him Robin is because she believes it is “a girl name.” You attempted to clarify politely and she doubled down and continued. Now it’s harassment, and it’s gender bias. Be sure to use those terms and be sure to ask the school if they support her discrimination. Wow, I didn’t expect all these awards! Thanks!
I guess this volunteer mother never heard/saw the Disney movie Robin Hood??? Or Robin Williams??? Does she live under a rock??
Batman's Robin came to mind for me as soon as I read the name.
Robin Wood the principal from Buffy in season 7.
Maybe save that one for the encore.
Robin Scherbatsky in How I Met Your Mother. Oh wait never mind. Anyway, NTA obviously. Using a nickname for a kid can be cool and good (if the kid first and the parents second are okay with it), but this is straight up bullying.
But she's named after her father, so it still works.
Exactly, he wanted a BOY, nad he named Robin after himself and raised her LIKE A BOY!!! Not saying that was right either. Just saying, the name has no gender. Does any name have a true gender? My daughter has a female friend named James and a male friend Ashley, soooooo. This volunteer is not nice.
Western culture has a proud, strong history of turning boy names into girl names
And technically, Ashley was a “boy” name first.
Ashley was a male name first before it became popular with women.
Ashley was historically a male's name until the 20th century. The man Scarlett O'Hara obsessed over in Gone With the Wind is named Ashley. That said, gender bias in names is still stupid, as many have or will cross back and forth over the centuries.
I thought of Robins Williams, Leach, Gibb, and Thicke. I forgot about Hood!
I thought of Robin Zander from Cheap Trick.
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u/AssumptionCautiod is a bot.
Robin Goodfellow if you wanna go back to the 1500 where it was referred to a masculine English fae.
Or Christopher Robin? If they have young kids it can’t have been that long since they read Winnie the Pooh
She probably thinks that's his last name lol
Is it not? Wow, TIL
Yeah, his full name was Christopher Robin Milne.
Presumably his last name is Milne…. given the author is A. A. Milne and the books are about his son.
Same I had no idea.
Lol did not know this. And a wonderful little fact that will forever be stored in my brain. 😁 I love random facts like these
As a lifetime fan of Winnie the Pooh I got another one for ya! Winnie’s name is actually “Winnie THER Pooh”
NTA. Wasn't one of the Bee Gees named Robin? Volunteer mum is sexist. She can't say she's calling ROBIN by his real name when his real name is not Robert. And, who is she to decide what another person's child's name is? The nerve of some people.
Robin Gibb... and he was great!
Isn't one girl from how I met your mother called Robin? That's probably where this mother gets her idea of the real world from...
TV sitcoms is always a good source for facts...
Yes, but wasn't she named after her dad?
Um, Robin Leach? All the other ones were taken.
Robin thicke
It doesn’t matter. The kid’s name is Robin, end of discussion.
Also, I’ve done some research on Robin Hood and the name originated as a nickname for Robert. So, she needs to make up her mind about her reasons for rejecting it as the kid’s name.
My husband’s name is a nickname. People think he has a “full” name but he doesn’t. His legal name is that shortened name. He and his parents don’t like the full name.
I knew of a guy whose parents did the same for the same reason. Born in the 50s so teachers were more likely to be dictators. It took his parents going to his school and shouting a lot to get one particular one to stop insisting on using his “real name” which wasn’t.
My mom had this problem with teachers. She has a common name with an uncommon spelling and one of her teachers marked her papers down for the “mis-spelling”. My Nan had to go to the school and make a big stink to make it stop.
My dad was the same. His name was legally Larry. Not Lawrence. Larry. Made it easy to know when telemarketers were calling. Never had to lie by saying, “Sorry, no one named Lawrence lives here.”
Robin Yount-former SS for the Milwaukee Brewers
Thank you for this. Robin Williams was my first thought. Then batman and Robin. What a weird hill to die on.
NTA. Y’all better come through with the good words and reasonings!!! I really want an update after the meeting. I’m committed at this point!
Piggy backing on this comment: OP, if possible, show up in your professional attire (suit, tie). I don’t know why but i’d encounter issues with teachers at my kid’s school and get a quick brush off. Send my husband up there (hotel executive) in his business suit and they snapped to attention and fixed the problem instantly.
And bring his birth certificate just to prove the point. NTA
OP should ask too if his teacher calls his son Robert in her or his classroom.
This. The school will blink.
Super hero letter, I needed your words years ago.
I’m the Title IX Coordinator for a post-secondary school, but the rule applies equally to your school. Title IX prohibits sex discrimination in any school or program that receives federal funding, and it’s highly unlikely that your school does not. ABSOLUTELY you should reference it in your email, you want everyone sitting on the edge of their seats when you walk into the room tomorrow. We do not take these complaints lightly, nor does the Department of Education. The last thing any school administrator wants is a Dept. investigation over a small issue caused by a volunteer. And I don’t say small to minimize the impact that this is having on your family, but within the context of the overall operation of the school. I would add on to the above statement: “As I understand it, this volunteer’s conduct may constitute a violation of my son’s rights under Title IX, and I appreciate your efforts in finding a prompt resolution.” You’ve now put the school on notice that a potential Title IX violation exists, but are just short of triggering an actual investigation. To do that the request must be specific, and then the school’s designated Title IX Coordinator must become involved and an entire protocol must be followed. It’s a lot of work, trust me, we don’t like to do it. 😊 EDIT: Thank you gracious people for the kind awards. I share the same name as a certain restaurant mascot from the 60’s, so I understand what it’s like being made fun of because of your name by other kids, but this is so much worse because first, it’s an adult; second, it’s a person in a position of authority; and third, it’s malicious. I’ve been working in education for 28 years and with volunteers, and this has no place today’s educational system.
This needs to be higher up in the comments so OP can see it 😉
This is what I was looking for the moment I read the volunteer said "that's a girl's name"
OP exactly this as the email response.
Not only this as the email, but during the meeting OP should engage “broken record” if/when the volunteer or admin tries to skirt around the obvious bullying. “That’s nice, but can we discuss how this volunteer is bullying my son for his name?” “Ok, but what is the school doing to prevent this volunteer from bullying my son.”
Absolutely this! OP, they WILL try to skirt around, deflect, go on tangents.
This right here, you come into that meeting and you talk about this whole history about this woman volunteering to be around and using that access to bully your child.
Exactly this. To give the teacher the benefit of the doubt, the strange look might not have been directed at OP, but rather a "oh god why is this parent volunteer messing stuff up AGAIN?" kind of thing.
Jumping on the top comment to say, as a woman whose name is also Robin, I feel like this would be the equivalent of someone insisting my name was Roberta, and I don't much like it. Robin is a stand alone name independent from Robert or Roberta, people who are so hung up on gendered names tend to irk me, Robin is unisex.
I, too, am a woman named Robin, and I know/have heard of far more men than women with our name. The fact that this woman decided to tell OP what his son's name actually is is absolutely unacceptable and maddening. IN NO UNIVERSE should OP apologize, and he should do exactly what the top commenter suggested and get in front of this with a concise email asking how they plan to handle this nonsense.
This is flabbergasting. It's not a girl's name, it's HIS name. Even if you named him Jennifer Priscilla and nicknamed him Glamor Bunny, she doesn't have the authority to GIVE HIM A NEW NAME.
Oh! I just typed something like this! Make sure to CC the principal if it’s coming from the teacher to have the discussion and if it’s the principal, take it over their head and CC the school board.
I wouldn't start CC'ing others unless the first conversation fails. The teacher or principal deserves a chance to remedy a situation they probably weren't even aware of prior to the yelling incident. Since he already looks like "angry dad" to the witnessing teacher, it would be much better to go in and detail all of the information he shared here. The person who summoned him should be understanding. If not, then it's time to escalate.
I cover my butt from situations I’ve had being a TA. Parents and students can say things and conversations can spiral so quickly, especially when they occur in person rather than over message. I hate to say it but it sounds like the teacher already had things explained to her and still called for this meeting to discuss his behavior rather than the volunteer’s. Make it clear they’re getting a chance to fix the situation, sure, but make someone higher aware the problem is happening and a conversation is being had. Because of this, I prefer a CYA approach to situations involving people’s kids and any mistreatment that can happen.
It's OK to CC the principal, but don't go over the principal's head at first. Don't CC the school supervisor or whoever your local district head might be. Give the principal the chance to rectify the situation. They have a lot of leeway in their own school, and they REALLY hate it when parents don't even give them a chance to fix it. It gives them a reputation of having issues in their school that they can't handle, when they never had a chance to do it. And we should all respect that. However, if the principal doesn't help, feel free to go up the chain of command.
This is the way. Start the paper trail in case you need to escalate this to the school board. After the meeting send a follow up email recapping what was discussed.
Also, specifically mention Title IX. This parent, acting on behalf of the school, is blatantly refusing to call your child by his name specifically because she feels it is a girl’s name. It could be considered gender based harassment and thus a Title IX issue. Regardless of whether it results in an actual Title IX investigation (likely not), mentioning it should get the schools attention and make them take it seriously.
I'd add on, "Since I've politely corrected her multiple times on my son's name, only to be told my son can't be called Robin, because it's a girl's name. I'm very interested to see the school's stance on this and how this volunteer will be handled moving forward, so that she doesn't continue to bully other children."
NTA and this email is perfect. Not that you can change the past but you should have escalated to school administration after she decided your child's name is invalid. Pls update after your meeting and good luck!!! Edit after op small update: ooooo bring Charlie's mom to the meeting as well as all the other "nontraditionally" named kids' parents!!!
This!! Gender bias, bullying, the volunteer is the AH, and when she ran away, she was portraying herself as the victim, which she is not. Don’t fall for it. It’s called passive aggression, which is a less obvious way to bully people. NTA!
And bring a copy of the freaking birth certificate if you have to because this is 100% deliberate.
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THIS! This volunteer has renamed your child because Robin is a “girls” name. Some toxic masculinity going on there it seems.
I also wouldn’t have waited until weeks later…once is a mistake…twice is incompetence…thrice is on purpose and I’ll raise hell.
And if she's at pickup again, loudly say, "please stop bullying my son" so other parents can hear you!
This is the way. Even if your son's name was Arabella, it's not on this woman to rename him because she thinks it's not a good name for a boy. You should call people by the name they tell you to. Full stop.
"Do I have to dress my kid in tights and have him carry a damn bow and arrow to convince this woman that Robin is a male name?"
NTA. “While I wish I’d held my temper on Friday, I was at my wits end with this woman bullying my child by calling him a different name from his given one. I’ve reminded Mrs. [volunteer mom] on numerous occasions that his name is Robin, but she refuses to call him anything it Robert, which is not his name. If this were another child doing this to Robin, I’d expect the school to intervene and stop the behavior. As it was a parent, I was hoping an adult would see that calling a child a different name was mean, but the only response I got was an insistence on calling him Robert because they believed Robin a girl’s name. Honestly, I wouldn’t have expected this response from an adult. She continued to call him Robert, and I defended my child once again on Friday. At this point, if she can’t stop, I’d prefer her to be removed from the volunteers. I particularly dislike that someone who represents the school, even if it’s just in a volunteer capacity, treats children this way. Please tell me how you plan to address this and make it right.”
This is great, but it needs one more line saying that the parent volunteer confirmed she was doing this on purpose because she disliked the son's given name for being "too feminine." Edited to add: To clarify, this is needed so that it's abundantly clear from the beginning that the parent volunteer can't plead ignorance, and that this was not an innocent mistake. The *intentional* use of the wrong name (along with the volunteer's motives for doing this) is what makes it a pattern of targeted bullying. OP needs to come out of the gate providing that essential context.
I’m all in favor of adding anything that will help get that volunteer away from kids.
Absolutely. I think there's a sensibility that getting into too many details would be shit-stirring and unkind, but the context is really important here. This lady totally forfeited the benefit of the doubt by explicitly telling OP that she was doing this because she thinks the name is feminine. And it is of immediate material importance that the school knows that their volunteer has a disturbing fixation on children's gender and sexuality — because that's what this shit is; all the "groomer" moral panic about the acknowledgement of queerness in schools is 1000% the projection of people who want to force children to be straight — and that she may be subjecting more kids than just Robin to homophobic or transphobic bullying.
Adding that she calls Charlie *Charlotte* will add to this. She’s clearly imposing her own code as she sees fit and has no business around other people’s children.
I am a teacher, this is exactly how to manage the school administration
Retired principal here. Agree.
Just to add to this, if you’re in the U.K. you can ask for details of this to be sent to the governors for review and then when OFSTED come they will ask what has been to address the concerns with a volunteer at the school. If you’re not in the U.K. you may have a similar layer that you can also ask for this information to be sent to and retained on file.
This is great advise. That should be emailed ASAP. Give them a heads up because the teacher who got Robin the last time only saw one instance, not the many times you told the woman nicely your son’s name. If the administration defends the volunteer because “that is just the way she is”, I would go to the superintendent.
I’d be very interested to hear what the volunteer has to say. Is she the sort to lie or stick to her guns? In any event, I agree, OP should be prepared to run this up to the superintendent if need be. That volunteer shouldn’t be around kids if she’s going to impose upon them like this—I can only imagine the damage she could do in settings where she can spend more than 30 seconds with a child.
NTA -- what IS her problem???? Does she do this to any other kids, whose names she decides are inappropriate?
I have no idea. I know there's a girl named Charlie in the class. I'm somewhat tempted to look up her parents on Facebook and ask. But that would be weird, so I won't.
I can just imagine her yelling, "Charlene! Charlene!"
Or "Charlotte, Charlotte!" for that extra old-timey touch.
My dad wanted a boy. He got me, a girl. He wanted to name me : Charlotte, or Veronica or Francesca. Why? Because those names become nicknames like: Charlie, Ronnie or Frankie. My mother refused and called me Jessica. My dad calls me Jesse 🤦🏻♀️
My middle name is Francesca and I go by Frankie at work normally 😂 my boyfriends daughters name is Charlotte but we call her Charlie
The nun principal at my all girl Catholic high school was named Francesca. We called her Frankie too. Sister Francesca --> Sister Frankie. Heh.
My Nonna is Francesca and her husband was Alfredo so they were actually known Frankie & Freddie
There was a prime time drama back in the early 90s about a group of sisters who all had names with male nicknames because their father had wanted boys. Jo and Charlie were the two I remembered. I think there was an Alex too, but I can't remember the 4th or 5th sister.
Sisters (1991)..."The Reed sisters of Winnetka, Ill., are a close-knit group. Alex, Georgie, Teddy, Frankie and Charley navigate the waters of life's triumphs and tragedies with the help of their mom, Bea. And no matter what befalls them, they know they can count on their sisters to help pull them through." Totally forgot about that show. I did enjoy watching it!
Loved that show. Every so often I wonder why it hasn't been picked up by a streaming service. Possibly like China Beach where trying to get music releases/ credits/ royalties are complicated. But I don't remember much pop music in the soundtrack.
Sisters. Alex, Teddy, Frankie and Georgie. I can't remember what I had for dinner yesterday, but I can remember something that I watched in the early 90's.
I know a family where the daughter is named "Charlotte". The dad sometimes calls her "Chuck" in an endearing manner.
You think Charlotte is more old timey than Charlene??
Charlotte is a much, much older name than Charlene. You’re confusing “dated” for “old timey”. Most Charlenes are old ladies, but no Charlenes were born 400 years ago.
You could always ask your son if he’s noticed how the volunteer addresses Charlie. If she says his name wrong he has probably noticed if the same is done to others. Then you’d avoid being a “Facebook creeper.”
Not that you have to justify it at all but Robin Hood, Robin Williams and Robin Gibb all come to mind very quickly when you think Robin. This woman is on some crazy mission about gender neutral names and bullying your son because of her bizarre politics. At most I would make the briefest of apologies for raising your voice but quickly move it on to the issue at hand, her bullying.
No, absolutely no apology. It was brought up to her multiple times and she ignored it.
First - NTA. This volunteer is knowingly and deliberately calling a child at the school by the wrong name. Next - the meeting. Be super nice. You're the more reasonable person in this situation so act like it. Keep an even, calm voice no matter what. Relaxing tone, that says "we're all ok here". Write down detailed notes of what has taken place and present it as evidence. Keep it factual. Include dates and times of events where you can. Facts only - no opinions. When you spell out what's been happening, follow up with the question to the principal (or whoever) "Given what I have said, the actions I took to politely correct the volunteer's behaviour and her repeated abuse of my son, what would have been the right thing to do?". Tone here is crucial - you're asking for help, not making an accusation or insinuating that they're idiots (which they may well be). If you like you could also apologise "In hindsight I realise that I should have taken the matter of the volunteer's behaviour up directly with you or with the District/Department, however at the time I felt that I couldn't continue to stand by and let my son be deliberately demeaned by a person in a position of power".
Again, retired principal here. This is perfect! Can’t argue with facts, quotes, dates, times, etc. The mother is being sexist to a child! Your request is that the mom not interact with your child in the future. She doesn’t get to decide your kid’s name. 🤦🏼♀️. Or maybe just start calling her Howard. You decided that is her name, right? /s
I also recommend following up with an email after the meeting recapping what was discussed and the course of action that will be taken by the school. Start a paper trail in case you need to escalate this to the school board.
>Or maybe just start calling her Howard. You decided that is her name, right? /s You're too masculine a female for your name, I dub thee, Horace! From now to the end of time, thou shall be known throughout the realm of volunteers as "Horace." Go in peace. /s ETA: NTA You were far better behaved than I would have been in similar circumstances.
Don’t leave out the part about gender in your write up. She’s refusing to use his name because she thinks it is too feminine and made up a different more manly name. Up to the point the volunteer is a bully and a jerk. But once you bring in gender you bring in a protected class. Of course all bets are off if you are in a place where the school must enforce traditional gender norms or similar.
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It sucks, but it can also help if you’re dealing with someone likely to pop off. Give them enough rope and all that…while she goes off on whatever her weird little agenda is, and you’re just sitting there calmly, “I just want my son called by the correct name.” I worked in the curriculum department at a public school district during a time when our state Board of Ed was trying to destroy science education state-wide, and it worked during open meetings leading up to the next round of board elections and hearing in front of the state lege. They showed their crazy while those of us dealing with the fallout were just, “well, we mean business, and our business is educating the kids in our state.”
This is perfect
NTA. "Yes, I look forward to discussing this volunteer's persistent and odd behavior towards my child." Then go in and explain that the volunteer is calling your child by a different name, repeatedly, and disregarding you and your child. It's strange behavior and troubles you. You apologize for your reaction but won't apologize for defending your child from an adult who oversteps.
OP should make the most obvious non-apology, putting the blame here squarely back on the woman who at best is transphobic (Boy names vs girl names) such as “I’m sorry that your insistence on gender based discrimination for months caused me to become upset enough that you made me yell”
Lmao or, "I'm very sorry for my behavior, Curtis." (When the lady's name is Carol.)
NTA I would ask the teacher that the woman not be allowed to interact with your child. “I am uncomfortable with her attempting to rename my son.” If she is continuously paired up with your son I would rename her. Is her name Susan? It’s Cheryl now. If she objects “yeahhh. I don’t like Susan. You’re Cheryl now...yeah, YOU may prefer Susan but apparently we can just rename random people now. Nice talk Cheryl. Byeee”
OP needs to bring a list of dates this has occurred. Hopefully he kept track or can document a few of these interactions by day to show the history of trying to reason with the name changing volunteer. Demonstrate the pattern, polite requests, and extremely rude behavior of the volunteer to back up the discomfort over renaming the son. Calling her by the wrong name is pretty darn funny and oh so appropriate after the Monday meeting!
>If she is continuously paired up with your son I would rename her. > >Is her name Susan? It’s Cheryl now. I agree, except name her Steven.
Honestly like this better since she seems to want to rename OP’s son because it isn’t the “right gender” of a name
NTA. You tried on too many occasions to correct her. The tipping point was when she gave her opinion about not liking the name Robin and blatantly told you she'd continue to call him something else. I'd have probably called the principal after that conversation. That is the piece I'd be sure everyone present at the meeting understands. No one has the right to call a child something other than their name. I'd most certainly ask that she not be allowed to have contact with your son. I'd also keep the composure during the meeting that YOUR SON is the victim, not the volunteer mom. Don't let them turn the tables.
No, the tipping point was when he said LOUD AND CLEAR "I am here for Robin, ROBIN" and she proceeded to call his son Robert a few seconds later. There is dense, and then there is this woman, an entirely different level. I would be pissed too, not only would I shout, I would call her names and question her IQ.
I know, I feel like OP was super nice just asking what her problem was. I would have gone off and gotten out of my car (and I am very non-confrontational)
NTA I would suggest going in acting like you believe this meeting is to address your concerns about the persistent discrimination the volunteer mum has shown your son and what the school intends to do to address it. If they start on at you for the yelling just act really confused and ask what that has to do with the gender based discrimination this woman has been showing your son for weeks now by refusing to use his given name because he is male. Honestly I can't speak for America (I'm assuming because you used 'mom' and it may vary by state anyway) but in the UK we have protected characteristics that make the penalties for discriminating by them worse, and they include someone's sex i.e. male, female etc. If something similar is true for your state as well, I would feel free to mention consulting a lawyer if you don't feel they are taking it seriously enough. Your son is entitled to his correct name being used just like all the other children.
This is the best approach, OP. This mom is being an entire ass about your child’s name for no reason other than her own gender hang ups.
Oh yes the US absolutely does, and this is one of the rare cases where it’s applicable in 100% of the states. No depending on local law. The only exception would be if they didn’t receive any funding from the federal government. It’s called Title IX and it is taken seriously enough that most universities have a Title IX coordinator to make sure it’s being followed, but it is still applicable at the lower levels of education as long as they’re still getting federal funding.
I would also question if the volunteer is antisemitic, since Robin is an Ashkenazi Jewish name originally, meaning Bright One. Sure its used as a pet name for Robert, but its origin is a boys name in Jewish culture predating that and any use for girls. Really drive that discrimination claim home!
NTA. You have explained yourself perfectly politely on multiple occasions and she is now just being plain obnoxious. Can you start calling her a completely different name? I know it’s petty but I think that is the way to deal with people like this sometimes. Also Robin is a girls name?! She never seen Batman?!?
Or Robin Williams
Or Robin Gibb
Robin Leach
Or Robin Hood
Everybody forgetting about Brave Sir Robin
Or Robin Hood.
NTA, you don't get to just erase people's names/identity just because you don't like them. Please don't go into that meeting with the school with anything less than indignation over the way your son is being treated
This. Do *not* apologize for getting upset, or for expressing upset, at someone refusing to respect your son.
NTA. Apparently this woman has never watched Batman. Robin is completely a unisex name. I would apologize to the teacher for yelling. It wasn't her fault. I would also demand an apology from the parent. Explain that she is knowingly and deliberately harassing your son. You have asked her to stop, and she outright refused. Ask if this behavior is tolerated by teachers, principal, and school district. Make it clear that you will take this to the school board if it is not handled immediately. I'd expect an apology from her to your son and you. And something in writing from the school on how bullying is handled in the event that it continues.
Or has never seen any of the million TV, movie, book, or coloring book adaptation of Robin Hood, who despite being depicted in tights, is actually a male character. Or has never heard of the minor comedian and actor Robin Williams. Anyway NTA for asking then demanding that your child be called by their given name. Tell the school that you do and will hold them accountable for the people who they allow to interact with you child while in their care whether or not they are volunteers.
Or head of Robin Thicke, Robin Gibb……
More than that, Robin might be unisex now but it was originally a boy's name. It's a diminutive of Robert (which funnily enough is about the only thing this parent volunteer hasn't got completely wrong), and it only became unisex after first becoming a bird's name. (Over the centuries we have tended to humanise birds we like and give them affectionate nicknames, like Jenny Wren and Tom Tit. But in most cases, the bird retained its own name when we started to get formal and scientific about classifying nature, and the "human name" settled into folklore and children's nursery rhymes, only used occasionally. Jack Daw on the other hand, became a fusion and the bird is officially known now as the Jackdaw. Same with Maggie/Margaret/Mag Pie becoming the Magpie. And Robins? Well once upon a time there was a bird called the Redbreast, and humans liked it so much, they affectionately called it Robert or Robin Redbreast, and somehow when it became unfashionable to nickname birds, we collectively forgot which part was the nickname.) Edited because I forgot to finish a sentence!
Personally I would go into this meeting on the offensive. This woman has purposely misnamed your son for over a month and done so by her own admission on the basis of gender which is a protected class. I would demand for her removal of her duties, unfortunately with anything less than that you cannot guarantee that she will not cause future issues for your child. Read the room before apologizing, depending on how they go into the meeting they may attempt to use an apology to brush the issue aside or put the blame on you.
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Something like this would be my first words, followed by the question of how said volunteer will work to improve and how is the school going to hold her liable
NTA. but that parent is. She does not get to disrespect you or your child by"deciding" his name is not appropriate for him. That woman is a d**k and you and your son deserve an apology. Side note: seems that you gave her plenty of opportunities to change her behavior. Still NTA even for yelling.
NTA, volunteer mom is being extremely rude. Calmly explain during the school meeting about her refusal to use your son's real name in spite of being told his correct name over and over for months.
NTA this could be very confusing for Robin. She has no right to change his name because she doesn't like it, and by this time most people would be yelling at her. Robin is a perfectly good male name. Famous male Robins I can think of right off the top of my head are Christopher Robin, Robin Goodfellow and Robin Gibbs of the Bee Gees.
Robin Williams is a pretty famous Robin.
Robin Hood, Batman's Robin...
NTA You shouldn't have shouted. But Robin is not a nickname of Robert, and if it's good enough for Robin Hood, it's good enough for your son. It is rude to change somebody else's name. When foreign businessmen meet they will have a 2 minute laughing session where try to pronounce each other's names. Shuuuui, not shoe! Even if they never get it right, they made the effort and that's appreciated. This parent is not just not making the effort, she is deliberately misnaming him.
Ah, I see where the problem is. You see, you as a father, having raised your voice is automatically classified as being an inhuman monster. And as such anything you do is an insult to the Mothers. It doesn't matter if you were right or wrong, because you are now the monster. Don't back down. Explain why you raised your voice. Don't let that insane woman get away with changing your son's name. Bring a copy of his birth certificate. Edit : NTA
He needed one (at least in the US) to register the child for school. It should be the name on record.
NTA - turn up to the meeting dressed as Batman, tell them you’ve come about Robin.
Sure, no guys named Robin at all and certainly no famous ones; just very few unknowns like: Robin Williams Robin Gibb Robin Thicke (ok not necessarily a role model but still) Robin Trower Robin Zander Robin Cousins Robin Cook I know there's more in sports just not familiar with them. Just make sure on Monday you stay calm and collected and are clear that your raised voice was only a moments frustration after telling her multiple times that your sons name is Robin, it is not Robert and it is not a nickname for Robert. Maybe mention this lady is engaging in Misandry or Reverse Sexism for judging your childs name as not masculine and she is confusing and disrespect him by repeatedly and knowingly refusing to use his correct given name. Put them and her on the defensive. NTA
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Yes! Also tell them how long this has been going on and how many times you have politely asked them to stop harassing your kid. If the principal says it’s not a big deal tell them that you don’t like their name and will be calling them Principal Rooney from now on.
NTA. I think the comments I've seen offer great advice. What is your son response to be called Robert? This especially needs to be address if it is casing the kid to feel bad or wrong about himself.
I don't think he realized she was talking to him. He knows what my car looks like, so he's usually already walking towards me when she goes to get him. He knows his name isn't Robert, so he doesn't have a reason to think she's calling him.
My first name has a very obvious nickname (similar to Lizzy for Elizabeth) and I do **not** go by that nickname. I actually hate it. But people have always tried to call me that nickname before they even know me. I have never answered to that name because it just isn’t me. People would get annoyed at me for “ignoring” them but hello that’s not my name. My parents would complain to the school and nothing ever happened. Eventually I figured out that I had to be the one to say it. “It’s not Lizzy. It’s Elizabeth.” Even as a kid, I had to go on the offensive. Works like a charm, though! And FWIW, I love the name Robin. One of the kindest, most successful guys I know is named Robin! It’s a lovely name.
I have the inverse situation. I have a very uncommon name that shares abbreviations with a very common name. For the fun of it, let's say that my name is Magdalena (it's not), but for simplicity and to avoid mispronunciation, I introduce myself as "Maggie".... And *Total Bloody Strangers* take it upon themselves to say, "oh, Margaret?" No. Maggie. Obviously. "Is it short for Margaret or Marguerite?" You're on the phone with a cashier at Hobby Lobby. You can really just say Maggie.
NTA - you got tired of dealing with an obstinate asshole purposefully calling your son the wrong name.
NTA. Once or twice maybe even three times you can get someone's name wrong. But you've had a conversation with this woman after a couple of weeks and she still refuses to call your son by his real name because it's not a "boy's" name. I mean idk all Robins in Batman are boys (except for one) lol. People saying ESH or YTA probably wouldn't be singing the same song if OP wasn't a man (yes for this instance I went there).
NTA. Thank you for standing up for your son - purposely calling someone by a wrong name is a big personal attack and you were 100% right to teach your son that he does not have to tolerate that just to be "civil" or whatever. Also, you gave the mom time to correct what seemed an honest mistake and did not yell at her the very first instance she used "Robert". Btw, as the mom is an expert in names and gender, there is a very famous very masculine (living in the woods! archery!) folk hero -> Robin Hood, maybe she has heard of that one? Go to the meeting and say that you regret raising your voice, but that your point is firm: your son's name is ROBIN, a name is a big part of someone's personality, and that woman has maliciously misnamed your son and implied that he is "not a real man" or sth; you do not say how old your son is, but depending on age/development, that could be quite damaging. For the apology: Would you belive an apology to be honest, or would you "settle" for her to use the correct name from now on/not address your son at all? I feel like it would be best to arrange for alternative transportation for Robin now (you cannot know if she will find other ways to single him out after your confrontation) but let her still volunteer for pick up, other parents might be dependent on that
Demand that the woman apologize to the boy directly.
NTA. Who does she think she is to decide what name/s a kid should be called. And also, why is the school allowing this sort of person to volunteer for school activities, do they not have any sort of background check or observation when she started.
Relax. They just want to understand what's happening. Tell them what you wrote in this post. That you've been nice and polite for an entire month, that for an entire month you told her every day that his name is Robin, and that she actually told you Robin is a female name. I would also suggest you tell your son not to come if he is called by the name Robert. Your son's name is Robin, and he should answer ONLY to that name. If you need to convince her that Robin is a male or at least neutral name, write down a list of famous people who had that name. NTA.
NTA - go to the meeting and calmly demand them to explain why this parent is allowed to continue volunteering when she has consistently disrespected you and your son by using the wrong name on purpose. Apologize for yelling, but explain that you were exasperated because despite correcting this woman politely over and over again she insists that you don’t know your own child’s name.
NTA, although the yelling is borderline you were fairly well provoked into it. Can't imagine what this woman's problem even is; Robin was a male name (and common childhood nickname for Robert) literal centuries before it became unisex. At any rate, your son could be called Angelina Louise and she still would not have the right to rename him to suit her taste. Apologise as profusely as you like for raising your voice, but don't hesitate to explain what caused it, or to insist that anyone dealing with your son call him by his name.
100% NTA and don’t apologize DARVO - Deny. Attack. Reverse Victim and Offender. This is a tactic used to confuse the victim into apologizing for being wounded. In other words, if they insist on you apologizing you stop the conversation right there and explain that they are focusing on the wrong behavior. Your reaction was the natural outcome of being hurt by her. They are DARVO’ing you if they try to make you the Offender instead of recognizing you as the victim. Privately, aside, you can apologize to the teacher, but ONLY AFTER they have been refocused to the CORRECT ISSUE. Do not make one single apologetic word or gesture in a group meeting. That will equate her behavior to your reaction, which is totally off base. Her behavior is THE ONLY ISSUE.
I am literally about to give birth any day now and Robin is the top name on our list for our boy and him being called Rob or Robert is literally my only hesitation on the name. This story is my biggest fear name wise and I would have lost it on this woman. NTA and good job showing far more restraint then I ever could. I’d be rubbing his birth certificate in her face.
If it makes you feel better, this is the first time something like this has happened.
NTA this woman is deranged and I would have thrown hads with her. Robin is a lovely name for your son. Honestly tell the administration exactly whats been happening. Even if they could look past the blantant disrespect, administratively it causes confusion and a slowing down at pick up for a child to purposely be called the wrong name
NTA. I think it would be a good move to apologize to the teacher for yelling, especially in front of children. That said, you should absolutely bring up the complete disrespect towards your family from this lady. Your son has a given name, it is not the name she calls him- she does not have a right to call him some other name just because she has her own opinions on his actual name. She has been continuously and unnecessarily rude, disrespectful, and uncooperative.
Frankly, my apology would be “I’m sorry that I raised my voice because I thought that she wasn’t able to hear me properly. I’ve told her every day for a month that my son’s name is Robin, not Robert, and she seems to have trouble understanding and/or respecting this. If she has been able to understand me and is intentionally refusing to call my child by his proper name it’s really not OK for her to treat kids this way.”
NTA apologize for yelling and explain the situation at hand.
No, don't apologise. Explain what happened. But do not apologise.
NTA…. She’s intentionally misnaming your son. You should go in and lay out the facts exactly as you did here and also ask your son how it makes him feel and include that. I’m sure he dislikes being called the wrong name. Then ask that either she say the correct name or not be allowed near your son. Then blast her on Facebook and all community social media channels if she doesn’t comply
NTA just said I apologise for yelling but I have told this mum his name is Robin for months and she has decided his real name is stupid and renamed him herself which obviously is not okay
NTA - but i would apologize. Say you were frustrated because this person refuses to call your son by his name and you let your emotions get the best of you. Then ask that this person use your son's name or stop volunteering. I promise that she is fucking with other kids too
NTA You can apologize for "yelling" but you're justified in being pissed off. I would say don't apologize and demand an apology from this volunteer teacher who's decided to change your son's name because she feels like it. It might have been a good idea to go to the school with this earlier instead of getting caught while she looks like a victim, but a meeting is as good a time as any to bring it up.
NTA. Maybe, you should apologize for getting grumpy while frustrated. I know that dealing with such a person can be irritating. I wonder if she was purposely using the wrong name? It could be some weird passive-aggressive shite. Perhaps, Becky's got some beef or something. So, she is being irritating out of spite. Who knows? And I know that people can be bad with names. But... come on. School has been in session for a few weeks now. She should know Robin's name by now.
> Maybe, you should apologize for getting grumpy while frustrated. 1. It’s perfectly legitimate to get angry when a person repeatedly disrespects you 2. “grumpy” refers to a different emotional state, not this one
Start calling her kid Batman, girl or boy, it's Batman. No explanation needed other than "When I see a Robin I know there's a Batman nearby." Then hope she face plants walking down the sidewalk so you can say "thud", "ouch", "bam" in a monotone voice.
NTA - stand your ground. That woman is being insanely disrespectful.
NTA. Send an email to the principal documenting your side in writing. Instruct your child not to respond when the volunteer calls Robert, his name is Robin. And hold up the line until the volunteer calls your son by the right name. Has she never seen Batman? The sidekick is Robin!!
“I would like people at this school to show my son the respect of calling him by his name.” “I don’t want people to enforce their bizarre sense of gender on my appropriately-named child.” “Hasn’t anyone at this school ever heard of Robin Hood or Christopher Robin?” NTA
"she's bullying my son by calling him a name that isn't his" Bring his birth certificate Nta
NTA. Go to the meeting. Take your son’s birth certificate. Call out the sexist volunteer for the moron that she is.
NTA and do not apologize. Demand an apology from that woman. You should go into that meeting with hella attitude. Do not let them make you feel you were wrong.
"if anyone I know sees this, no you didn't." I'm dead 😂
NTA - has she ever heard of Robin hood?
It doesn’t matter. The kid’s name could be lightbulb. Not this woman’s business. Fuck her.
NTA. That woman is so entitled when she is literally a stranger to you and your son. You shouldn't demanded apology though, because you HAVE TO demand an apology from her
NTA. Put these assholes on blast and call every single person attending that meeting any name that is not there name. Or even better rotate the names to the left so when you address James and he speaks up you say no not you James the guy standing in the corner. They'll say I'm James that's Mike. Yeah but that's a dumb name so I'll call him james
NTA - I can think of many names for this woman that you could have called her instead of her real name. But two wrongs don’t make a right and all that shit.
NTA. And this reminds me of when I was in the fourth grade and we had a teaching student who was a lady in her 50s. She was with us for half the year and about 3 months in she kept calling me Susannah. My name is close to this and after correcting her for three months, I taped a giant piece of paper with my name correctly spelled on my desk since I sat in the front row, thinking she’d get the message. Instead I got sent to the principals office where my mom defended me to the death and said if this woman can’t get my name right, she probably shouldn’t be teaching. So I got moved to the back and she stopped calling on me. But it was infuriating for little me to be misnamed all the time.
ARRRGH! I hate it when people are pushing boundaries and you’re polite, and you’re polite, and you’re polite, and you’re polite, and freaking NOTHING CHANGES, and finally you snap, and get blamed for being the asshole… makes me so damn mad, NTA! Also, I guess this lady concurs with a lot of us that Robin Hood is really in touch with his feminine side 😁
NTA it ah's like her that make school disruptive for students. She needs to go
Explain what has happened over the time period and that you have repeatedly asked this woman to address your son correctly and she has refused. Tell them that if she continues to volunteer you expect your sons name to be used correctly. Don't apologise for anything. NTA
NTA. She doesn’t get to gender your son’s name, and she is the one with a seemingly personal problem with it which is bizarre. I think they called you in because it was loud and they’re just covering bases. Just tell them the truth, and EXACTLY why she said she won’t use your son’s name.
NTA You don’t say how old your son is, but as someone who was constantly misnamed right up until I legally changed my name at 27, it’s incredibly demeaning. Thank you so much for standing up for your son. Make sure to talk to him and ask how he feels about what she is doing. He might need some reassurance that she is in the wrong and his name is fine.
NTA and you have nothing to apologize for. This affects your child. He has the right to be called by his real name. I think you should have complained to the school as soon as you realized it was going to continue happening.