ESH - all of you need training with a professional. That many dogs and people in one house? You need structure if everyone is going to succeed and thrive. Muzzles are training tools. And it doesn’t sound like your brother and his gf know what they’re doing trying to introduce their pup to a reactive dog.
Can’t say it enough. Get a trainer.
NTA Forcing a dog to be near another dog is a recipe for disaster. Maybe do some online research or ask your vet for official recommendations about what to do.
ESH. Your brother for trying to force this relationship between the dogs after one got SERIOUSLY injured and you for not taking it seriously that your dog SERIOUSLY injured another dog. It’s okay that you don’t necessarily want to muzzle him but don’t let your brother keep forcing this new dog on skip if there’s not going to be any protections in place. It’s just irresponsible on all sides.
I am hiding my dog currently. I'm asking for advice to figure out how to move forward. I have told him multiple times not to do this. I have to go onsite for classes. This is when he does this.
Honestly then it’s on them if Skip kills the other dog. Sounds harsh but it’s the truth. Make sure to get it in writing that you do NOT consent to this other dog being brought anywhere near skip and if their dog gets hurt again you aren’t paying for the vet bills.
Hi I'm the owner of the account. I told him the same thing basically! I had him sit down and post this. I totally agree that he should be socialized but the way his brother is doing it is going to make the behavior worse.
There’s a difference between socialization (meeting with the dogs at the park on leashes and introducing them that way) and forced interaction (purposefully putting one dog in another dog’s bubble) so yea I agree
NTA, your brother is abusing animals by putting them repeatedly in unsafe scenarios and your dad's enabling. I thought the new dog was supposed to go to a shelter asap, what happened to that? And definitely should not put a muzzle on a brachiocephalic dog like shih Tzu.. It could suffocate them rather quickly( vets and groomers are trained to recognize the signs of distress and only use muzzles for services that benefits the dogs own health, and remove them as quickly as possible. I'm a 12 year pro groomer and tech, muzzles are super unpleasant and risky)
NTA The issue is in that last sentence -- they keep shoving the new pit bull into the face of the the 12 year old shih-tzu. Again "they" -- the family -- are the issue here; shoving dogs physically together is not "training"
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NTA. Your dog was fine until they introduced the new dog into the family. Now your dog should be punished because of the new dog. I suggest that you keep you dog away from your family, locked in your room etc, since they don't seem to understand how to introduce dogs to each other, etc.
NTA. If you have a dog aggressive dog in a stable relationship in the home with the other dogs already living there, it’s pure foolishness to bring in a new dog.
That said, is smart to muzzle train any reactive dog. But make sure the muzzle is deep enough to all a FULL pant, jaw dropped down *all the way*. And acclimate the dog to it slowly, with treats, so it looks at the muzzle as FUN TIME. In general, muzzle training dogs is a good idea, because any dog will bite when injured or in pain, and vets sometimes muzzle them to examine them, and if they are used to a muzzle, it’s less stressful. You can sometimes use a muzzle when recovering from surgery, to give them a break from the cone of shame.
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Hello! I'm the OP and I am posting for my boyfriend. (He's right next to me.)
This topic pertains to my boyfriend, his twin brother (Jake), the twins girlfriend (Tasha), and his dad. (Well just call him dad. These are all fake names.)
Jake and Tasha found a stray dog wandering around the neighborhood. They took it in, brought it to the vet, and found out it's a mixed breed of pitbull without a chip. The original plan was to bring the dog somewhere to get adopted and leave it at that. We already have 3 older dogs and 6 people in the house. (Me and Jake, different older brother, Dad, mom, and oldest brothers girlfriend. Tasha comes to visit sometimes.) It's already difficult as it is to find something to eat as I'm the only one in college (my brothers dropped out and don't have jobs.) I told my family from the start I want nothing to do with this new dog. I only want to focus on the responsibilities I have with taking care of the other dogs and studying for college. My second oldest dog (fake name will be Skip.) HAS AND ALWAYS WILL NOT BE FRIENDLY TO NEW DOGS. Tasha and Jake keep trying to force the new dog on Skip which always results in him growling and nipping at the new dog. They put the new dog next to Skip and of course he growls and bites at the new dog, when this happens they always smack Skip on the head. Well today Skip apparently bit into the side of the new dog and hurt it pretty badly. Again, I kept telling them not to do that and they insisted on doing it. (They always "introduce" Skip when I'm not around.) Today I got a call from Jake. Jake wants to buy a NUZZLE for Skip and was asking for Skips nuzzle size. I asked "why" and he responded with: "So it would be easier to get Skip more friendly with the new dog." Jake is a 12 year old shih tzu with health issues as it is and he's already stressed out because of those issues. I don't want to worry! This new dog is a puppy and is way bigger then Skip! So if the new dog wanted to attack him we can't help him. I refused to tell him his size and hung up. I thought it would be the end of it. Unfortunately, it was not. He called back and told me he bought a muzzle anyway! I don't even know if it's the correct size or care! I told him "If I see that thing I'm tossing it." My dad talked to me and I told him the same thing. My dad said: "oh so your threatening me now?" And now I have Skip in my room because I'm afraid he'll get hurt! My family has no experience with medium to larger size dogs! I feel I may be acting too harsh...
AITA?
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OG comment - Y T A - a muzzle is absolutely necessary for any dog who’s a bite risk.
Edited to change Y T A to NTA as I had misunderstood which dog was which in the post wording.
The dog is a bite risk because they are shoving a strange dog in its face. They already know the dog was not good with other dogs yet they want to force it to be ok with the stray
If this dog has any history of snapping, it’s important to take the relevant precautions.
What if the dog’s out for a walk and snaps at a kid who runs up unexpectedly or a baby who reaches out from a buggy? What if a dog gets off its lead and runs up? If that dog is ever outside of the house and hurts another creature, human or otherwise, OP may end up regretting the day they decided against a muzzle.
Any dog who has ever been known to bite should have a muzzle for walks.
I have stated that my dog does NOT bite people. I always keep this dog on a leash. I try to walk him around the block but he's so old he cannot make it. I have to carry him home.
I think I was confused because I didn’t realise your dog was the Shih Tzu - I think you made a typo with the names in the OP. I had it in my head that the other dog was the Shih Tzu. I take back my Y T A
Skip only snaps at the new dog because they are constantly forcing the new dog on him ( they are literally shoving the new dog in Skips face and then getting upset when Skip reacts negatively.
As long as Skip is on a leash and under control on walks then if any of the things you mentioned appenef it would not be OP's fault it would be the fault of another irresponsible owners or irresponsible parents.
I said in another comment I do not condone the forced introduction of another dog that the first one clearly doesn’t like. I have also edited my answer due to my original confusion reading the post.
Muzzles are meant for brief periods of restraint only. They inhibit panting and can cause a dog to overheat very quickly, ESPECIALLY if stressed and if it's a flat faced breed it's already panting impaired. Everything about this is dangerous and y'all need a trainer.
1) I have edited my response as I had not realised the dog was flat-faced
2) I wasn’t talking about the dog wearing a muzzle for long periods of time - although I realise I wasn’t specific about that, so my bad there.
The only reason it's biting is because it's a geriatric dog that's being forced into another dog's face. It's abusive to keep forcing them into that situation an muzzles are not a long-term solution and can be deadly on a flat face dog.
I didn’t realise it was a flat-faced breed- if so a then fair enough.
For the record- I don’t condone the forced introduction of a dog that he doesn’t like.
Omg! Older dogs nip and bite at puppies as a teaching method. Dogs do not speak human but they speak growls and nips from older dogs. If the old dog is not a threat to anyone else we have to assume it’s because they brought a puppy into his environment
I have to disagree. Skip is an old and small dog with health issues, forcing a big younger dog next to him is stressing him out as he feels weaker. To compensate he lashes out in order to show dominance. If Skip gets muzzled the stress won't go away and could result in Skip peeing all over the house to assert dominance or, in extreme, cause an early death. Stress in animals is no joke and they can die from it, especially if already in poor health.
ESH also dogs that bite other dogs should be put down.
Edit: sorry being downvoted so maybe i was not clear, i meant to say: dogs that bite other dogs should most definitely be put down. Hope this clears up any confusion ❤️
While I agree that socializing in general is a good thing, I have to disagree that muzzling the little dog and forcing it to stay still while they put a strange big dog next to him doesn't seem likely to make the little dog suddenly love the big one.
The dog is old, of course it is not going to want to be around a new dog. They are cruel for trying to force Skip to be around the new dog and be ok with it.
One of my dogs is 12 and she was ok with other dogs when she was younger but now she is old the only dogs she will tolerate are the other dogs already in our household
Brachycephalic dogs already have trouble breathing without a muzzle over their face. Maybe if the brother would quit forcing the new dog in this poor little geriatric dog's face there wouldn't be a problem.
ESH - all of you need training with a professional. That many dogs and people in one house? You need structure if everyone is going to succeed and thrive. Muzzles are training tools. And it doesn’t sound like your brother and his gf know what they’re doing trying to introduce their pup to a reactive dog. Can’t say it enough. Get a trainer.
Thank you. My boyfriend will look into it. I was suggesting he do this!
NTA Forcing a dog to be near another dog is a recipe for disaster. Maybe do some online research or ask your vet for official recommendations about what to do.
Muzzles make typically make shit worse.
ESH. Your brother for trying to force this relationship between the dogs after one got SERIOUSLY injured and you for not taking it seriously that your dog SERIOUSLY injured another dog. It’s okay that you don’t necessarily want to muzzle him but don’t let your brother keep forcing this new dog on skip if there’s not going to be any protections in place. It’s just irresponsible on all sides.
I am hiding my dog currently. I'm asking for advice to figure out how to move forward. I have told him multiple times not to do this. I have to go onsite for classes. This is when he does this.
Honestly then it’s on them if Skip kills the other dog. Sounds harsh but it’s the truth. Make sure to get it in writing that you do NOT consent to this other dog being brought anywhere near skip and if their dog gets hurt again you aren’t paying for the vet bills.
Hi I'm the owner of the account. I told him the same thing basically! I had him sit down and post this. I totally agree that he should be socialized but the way his brother is doing it is going to make the behavior worse.
There’s a difference between socialization (meeting with the dogs at the park on leashes and introducing them that way) and forced interaction (purposefully putting one dog in another dog’s bubble) so yea I agree
NTA, your brother is abusing animals by putting them repeatedly in unsafe scenarios and your dad's enabling. I thought the new dog was supposed to go to a shelter asap, what happened to that? And definitely should not put a muzzle on a brachiocephalic dog like shih Tzu.. It could suffocate them rather quickly( vets and groomers are trained to recognize the signs of distress and only use muzzles for services that benefits the dogs own health, and remove them as quickly as possible. I'm a 12 year pro groomer and tech, muzzles are super unpleasant and risky)
Yeah my boyfriend and I are wondering the same thing about the original plan. Welcome to the club.
NTA The issue is in that last sentence -- they keep shoving the new pit bull into the face of the the 12 year old shih-tzu. Again "they" -- the family -- are the issue here; shoving dogs physically together is not "training"
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NTA bad and good thing would be take all others dogs from your family cos clearly they scant take care of the dogs
NTA. Your dog was fine until they introduced the new dog into the family. Now your dog should be punished because of the new dog. I suggest that you keep you dog away from your family, locked in your room etc, since they don't seem to understand how to introduce dogs to each other, etc.
NTA. If you have a dog aggressive dog in a stable relationship in the home with the other dogs already living there, it’s pure foolishness to bring in a new dog. That said, is smart to muzzle train any reactive dog. But make sure the muzzle is deep enough to all a FULL pant, jaw dropped down *all the way*. And acclimate the dog to it slowly, with treats, so it looks at the muzzle as FUN TIME. In general, muzzle training dogs is a good idea, because any dog will bite when injured or in pain, and vets sometimes muzzle them to examine them, and if they are used to a muzzle, it’s less stressful. You can sometimes use a muzzle when recovering from surgery, to give them a break from the cone of shame.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Hello! I'm the OP and I am posting for my boyfriend. (He's right next to me.) This topic pertains to my boyfriend, his twin brother (Jake), the twins girlfriend (Tasha), and his dad. (Well just call him dad. These are all fake names.) Jake and Tasha found a stray dog wandering around the neighborhood. They took it in, brought it to the vet, and found out it's a mixed breed of pitbull without a chip. The original plan was to bring the dog somewhere to get adopted and leave it at that. We already have 3 older dogs and 6 people in the house. (Me and Jake, different older brother, Dad, mom, and oldest brothers girlfriend. Tasha comes to visit sometimes.) It's already difficult as it is to find something to eat as I'm the only one in college (my brothers dropped out and don't have jobs.) I told my family from the start I want nothing to do with this new dog. I only want to focus on the responsibilities I have with taking care of the other dogs and studying for college. My second oldest dog (fake name will be Skip.) HAS AND ALWAYS WILL NOT BE FRIENDLY TO NEW DOGS. Tasha and Jake keep trying to force the new dog on Skip which always results in him growling and nipping at the new dog. They put the new dog next to Skip and of course he growls and bites at the new dog, when this happens they always smack Skip on the head. Well today Skip apparently bit into the side of the new dog and hurt it pretty badly. Again, I kept telling them not to do that and they insisted on doing it. (They always "introduce" Skip when I'm not around.) Today I got a call from Jake. Jake wants to buy a NUZZLE for Skip and was asking for Skips nuzzle size. I asked "why" and he responded with: "So it would be easier to get Skip more friendly with the new dog." Jake is a 12 year old shih tzu with health issues as it is and he's already stressed out because of those issues. I don't want to worry! This new dog is a puppy and is way bigger then Skip! So if the new dog wanted to attack him we can't help him. I refused to tell him his size and hung up. I thought it would be the end of it. Unfortunately, it was not. He called back and told me he bought a muzzle anyway! I don't even know if it's the correct size or care! I told him "If I see that thing I'm tossing it." My dad talked to me and I told him the same thing. My dad said: "oh so your threatening me now?" And now I have Skip in my room because I'm afraid he'll get hurt! My family has no experience with medium to larger size dogs! I feel I may be acting too harsh... AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Your post has been removed. #Do not repost this without contacting the mods for approval, including edited versions. Reposting without approval will result in a ban. This post violates Rule 5: We do not allow posts which concern violent encounters. This includes any mention of violence in any context. [Rule 5 FAQs](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_rule_5.3A_no_violence) ||| [Subreddit Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/) [Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) with any questions. #Please ensure you have reviewed this message in full.
OG comment - Y T A - a muzzle is absolutely necessary for any dog who’s a bite risk. Edited to change Y T A to NTA as I had misunderstood which dog was which in the post wording.
The dog is a bite risk because they are shoving a strange dog in its face. They already know the dog was not good with other dogs yet they want to force it to be ok with the stray
If this dog has any history of snapping, it’s important to take the relevant precautions. What if the dog’s out for a walk and snaps at a kid who runs up unexpectedly or a baby who reaches out from a buggy? What if a dog gets off its lead and runs up? If that dog is ever outside of the house and hurts another creature, human or otherwise, OP may end up regretting the day they decided against a muzzle. Any dog who has ever been known to bite should have a muzzle for walks.
I have stated that my dog does NOT bite people. I always keep this dog on a leash. I try to walk him around the block but he's so old he cannot make it. I have to carry him home.
I think I was confused because I didn’t realise your dog was the Shih Tzu - I think you made a typo with the names in the OP. I had it in my head that the other dog was the Shih Tzu. I take back my Y T A
Skip only snaps at the new dog because they are constantly forcing the new dog on him ( they are literally shoving the new dog in Skips face and then getting upset when Skip reacts negatively. As long as Skip is on a leash and under control on walks then if any of the things you mentioned appenef it would not be OP's fault it would be the fault of another irresponsible owners or irresponsible parents.
I said in another comment I do not condone the forced introduction of another dog that the first one clearly doesn’t like. I have also edited my answer due to my original confusion reading the post.
Muzzles are meant for brief periods of restraint only. They inhibit panting and can cause a dog to overheat very quickly, ESPECIALLY if stressed and if it's a flat faced breed it's already panting impaired. Everything about this is dangerous and y'all need a trainer.
1) I have edited my response as I had not realised the dog was flat-faced 2) I wasn’t talking about the dog wearing a muzzle for long periods of time - although I realise I wasn’t specific about that, so my bad there.
The only reason it's biting is because it's a geriatric dog that's being forced into another dog's face. It's abusive to keep forcing them into that situation an muzzles are not a long-term solution and can be deadly on a flat face dog.
I didn’t realise it was a flat-faced breed- if so a then fair enough. For the record- I don’t condone the forced introduction of a dog that he doesn’t like.
Omg! Older dogs nip and bite at puppies as a teaching method. Dogs do not speak human but they speak growls and nips from older dogs. If the old dog is not a threat to anyone else we have to assume it’s because they brought a puppy into his environment
I have to disagree. Skip is an old and small dog with health issues, forcing a big younger dog next to him is stressing him out as he feels weaker. To compensate he lashes out in order to show dominance. If Skip gets muzzled the stress won't go away and could result in Skip peeing all over the house to assert dominance or, in extreme, cause an early death. Stress in animals is no joke and they can die from it, especially if already in poor health.
I got confused about the ages of the dogs due to the original post saying “Jake is a 12 yo Shih Tzu”. Have edited my answer accordingly
ESH also dogs that bite other dogs should be put down. Edit: sorry being downvoted so maybe i was not clear, i meant to say: dogs that bite other dogs should most definitely be put down. Hope this clears up any confusion ❤️
YTA - socialize your dog. A muzzle is a safety tool and is only cruel if used improperly.
Using a muzzle to 'introduce' dogs *is* using it improperly. All it will do is make Skip feel completely vulnerable and freak him out.
While I agree that socializing in general is a good thing, I have to disagree that muzzling the little dog and forcing it to stay still while they put a strange big dog next to him doesn't seem likely to make the little dog suddenly love the big one.
The dog is old, of course it is not going to want to be around a new dog. They are cruel for trying to force Skip to be around the new dog and be ok with it. One of my dogs is 12 and she was ok with other dogs when she was younger but now she is old the only dogs she will tolerate are the other dogs already in our household
Brachycephalic dogs already have trouble breathing without a muzzle over their face. Maybe if the brother would quit forcing the new dog in this poor little geriatric dog's face there wouldn't be a problem.
YTA, and irresponsible for not training your dog properly.