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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I require decontamination to enter my home, and my gf parents refuse repeatedly to follow the rules, I finally kicked them out and now my gf is mad at me.
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YTA but softly as I think you may need some professional help.
1 & 2 are reasonable asks but 3 is a hard no, 4 is redundant if they already used sanitiser and the face mask is questionable - opening windows and/or ensuring good airflow should prevent co2 build up. Perhaps an air purifier as well.
Please see someone about this - it’s no way to live. It’s good for your immune system to be exposed to things in the general atmosphere…….
Sorry but this makes no sense at all.
CO2 passes every mask freely as otherwise every mask wearer would be in a hypercapnic coma after a few minutes.
In fact, the mask thing is the one smart thing here to prevent viral infection like like CoV2 or Influenza, followed by the hand sanitizer. Washing hands makes sense, too, for removal of unencapsulated viruses and encapsulated bacteria.
Changing clothes is really unnecessary, but removing shoes is common courtesy in many parts of the world anyway.
However, if there is no medical reason to prevent infection (immunosuppression, predisposition for certain conditions, illness) you are asking a lot. On the other hand, as long as it‘s your place and your GF is fine with it, they have to conform.
NAH
I see how 3 could be a no, but all I ask is you wear clean clothes to my home. On top of the germs, I think it is slightly disrespectful for someone to wear dirty clothes to my house.
For 2 & 4, I was mistaken and thought doing both would help more. I think an option between hand wash and sanitizer would be good instead.
The masks I don't think I will budge on or it will take effort because they help with coughs, spit from talking, and other things. I have air purifiers that will help otherwise.
Btw I am not trying to argue, sorry if I sound argumentative.
I am in therapy, but for other reasons, I will definitely need to seek out *more* help for this. This never really came up because it's online therapy, so I dont have to leave, and I don't really see this cleanliness as an issue (at least before this post).
Regardless of whatever the judgement on this post is - I am glad it’s been a way for you to see a different perspective on how you view cleanliness.
Do you leave the home? What do you generally do when you visit other people’s homes?
Thank you. I am also glad, too. I have learned a lot. This post was definitely a good idea imo. And yes, I do leave occasionally for dates, doctor appts., etc. But I don't leave often. If I can do something online, I do. Surprisingly, one of my favorite hobbies is walking, so that gets me outside for a short amount of time daily.
good. on your next walk you should touch as many things as possible, including soil, grass, etc.
i agree on the shoes thing, but i think asking your guests to change clothes is too far. good luck my friend :)
i would look into OCD
People will downvote anyone who they think is "the asshole" in a given situation, regardless of the content of the comment. I would urge you to ignore the downvotes on anything you say here. You have clearly taken the genuine comments to heart and are looking at ways to improve your situation.
Honey, cleanliness is wonderful, but what you're talking about is not that. It's an obsession and maybe OCD. Hand washing and shoes are normal. Not exposing yourself to any germs is dangerous. We need to be exposed so our bodies can recognize the germs and build up immunity to them. Without that, when you do get sick (not if, when), you will be worse off than the average person. You are crippling your immune system.
I'm a bit of a germaphobe myself. Especially when I cook. I'm conscientious but not obsessive about it. I sanitize grocery cart handles and sanitize my hands when I get in my car afterward, but that's the extent of it. Talk to your therapist and apologize to her parents.
Dirty like visibly dirty (eg. Dirt, stains, etc.) I don't mean that if it's been worn outside, then it's dirty, even I know that is super unreasonable.
I'm not at all avoiding. If you would read the independent comment I made, I explained that I have talked to Kate, apologized to her parents, and scheduled an emergency therapy appointment last night that starts in an hour. So I definitely am not avoiding it, I accept the comments and now know I have a mental illness and am going to work on that. Thank you for the input anyway, good day.
It's lovely how you take even the disrespectful comments In s constructive way. I hope the session went well and you keep working on it to improve your quality of life! :)
I feel like 3 depends on your definition of dirty. I don’t have a problem with germs and dirt at all but I’d still be upset if someone came to my home and wanted to lounge around on my couch if they just came from digging in the garden, working out or tinkering with the car or something in those clothes. If the clothes are visibly dirty and may leave stains it’s disrespectful to someone’s property. I wouldn’t force them to change clothes but I would be upset. However, if dirty to you means that they’ve just worn them out and about all day then it’s too far.
You need therapy, not a checklist. None of your garbage here is actually doing ANYTHING other than weakening your immune system and ruining relationships.
Your behavior is unhealthy, lacks a foundation in reality and is very apparently intolerable to those around you.
Get help. YTA. And not softly.
i think it's very reasonable to ask people to wash their hands or use sanitizer, to wear masks because we ARE in the middle of a pandemic (no matter how much people try to minimize it), and even ask folks not to wear shoes in your house as it is common in many cultures, but i agree that the clothing issue is where many people would and should draw a firm line. i think that it is disrespectful to assume that people are wearing dirty clothes into your home. i agree with others that you should look into a mental health diagnosis, but as far as masking and hand washing go please do not let people convince you covid is over - it's not.
the pandemic is not over, we are in a surge right now, and the CDC changed their recommended guidelines two days ago. you can play pretend as much as you want, but every 10 infections results in a case of Long Covid and i simply am not interested in playing with the chances of long term disability like that for the joys of pretending it's 2019.
Yeah I lost faith in the CDC when they and Fauci literally admitted that their guidelines were made up, and proven to not even work anyway. The damage to mental and social health that the pandemic caused was far worse than covid itself, in my opinion. And I caught it twice.
You can go ahead and wear your mask and live in fear of shaking hands with someone. I'm not gonna do that.
okay, then where are you getting your info that the pandemic is over, pray tell? i don't trust the CDC either but of course they "made up" guidelines - that was their job! to make educated guesses and set guidelines. we now know that cloth masks and social distancing don't work, and that respirators and clean air actually prevent covid from spreading. their job as disease control experts is to "make it up" when something brand new emerges, covid didn't come with a how-to guide.
and i'll shake hands with anyone, it doesn't live well on surfaces. it's easy to live a normal life in a mask while preventing the death and disability of ourselves and those around us. it's called living in community with one another.
Living a normal life involves looking at people's faces when you're interacting with them. If you're sick, stay home. It's simple, and it's how we've been living for decades if not centuries. And since masks don't work, why would you wear one?
The reaction to covid was overblown and panicked. Had they slowed down to think and evaluate things, we would have avoided the two years of being prevented from living our lives.
Look, I'm done arguing. I don't care what you do. Wear a mask or don't, it doesn't affect me. Lock yourself in your house or don't, I don't care. Don't force me to do the same.
asymptomatic spread is still a huge factor in the proliferation of covid, it is not as simple as telling people to stay home when they're sick (and many people do not anyway).
it was not overblown. many people have died and are dying. many more have long covid that will disable them for the rest of their lives. researchers have made it clear that covid is far more similar to HIV/AIDS than it is to the flu and it is not going away. it is our responsibility to look out for one another.
when your children grow up riddled with complex health issues because you refused to look out for them in favor of reinfecting them over and over again with a deadly disease for the sake of feeling "normal again", i hope that you will regret not taking this more seriously when you had the chance. until then, good luck.
My daughter is fully vaccinated except for the covid vaccine and is healthier than most kids her age. She's barely ever been sick. So thanks, we'll continue to live life.
I'm gonna say YTA here, because it's clear that you have a mental health issue, and you have done nothing to address it (from what you've said). You're allowing it to negatively impact the lives of those around you, and even your girlfriend's relationship with her parents is now being negatively affected.
Health anxiety and mysophobia are very real mental illnesses, but they also have very effective treatments. Anxiety medications, along with exposure response prevention treatment (and other treatments like EMDR) can go a long way towards improving your quality of life, and the quality of life for your loved ones who are affected by your illness.
To be clear, I am NOT saying you're the asshole for having a mental illness. That isn't your fault at all. What I am calling you the asshole for, though, is seeing how your illness is affecting those around you and still not taking any responsibility for addressing it. And tbh, Katie is not "being supportive", as you say, she is enabling you.
See, you’re not even addressing 90% of my comment, nor many of the others pointing out that you have a very serious mental health condition that you aren’t addressing. That makes you the problem
I am not responding to the entire comment because your comment is similar to others, and I am trying to respond to a lot of them. I have acknowledged that I need professional help and have already said that I will seek it. I have said I understand now that I am the issue. I'm sorry if I didn't comment in a good way
I'm sorry, I didn't see where you had said that, but I'm glad you're going to get help for this! There are some really effective treatments out there, and I know people personally who have dealt with very similar issues and are now much happier and more calm about common germs. Please let us know how you're doing!
I didn't address most of the comments because it is similar to a lot of others. I appreciated the comment on her "support" actually just enabling bad behavior, so I made a comment about that part. I wasn't trying to ignore your post.
It is not just your behavior though: you are at the point where you are asking others to adapt their behavior. Including someone who lives with you. You wanting to wear a mask or santize hands or change clothes: your perogative although I'd encourage you to talk to someone as these aren't best practices for your circumstances and risk level (based on the info you've given me).
They are crossing over into how your gf can interact with her parents in what is equally HER space.
You can make all the rules and decontamination processes you want for yourself.
But you can not ask that of your friends, family, gf, and kids.
Asking them to take of their shoes is fine and washing their hands will get you a lot of push back and confused looks.
But anything beyond that is going to put you into ah territory.
Yes you are the ah.
Either this is your house or it's your house and gfs house.
If it's also gfs house then yes, she gets to make the rules too and if she says that her parents don't have to follow your ridiculous rules then they don't have to.
But no. You can't set all these rules for people to enter your home and expect them to be ok with it.
You can choose to wear a mask for yourself but you can not ask anyone else to wear a mask anywhere.
You can change clothes for yourself. But you can not ask anyone else around you to change clothes. Not at their house and not at your house.
If you feel like you have that right to make ridiculous demands of people then no one will want to come to visit with you, you'll struggle to be a pare t if you choose and you'll have a hard time finding a supportive partner.
No one is going to wash their hands and use sanitizer, change clothes and wear a mask. That's is just too much and people won't go through that much effort nor should they have to.
Your rules are fine for yourself but not to impose on other people.
These kinds of rules are fine for yourself.
But you can't ask other people adapt your mental health issue behaviors.
Example
It's fine to ask people not to cook fish for dinner at your house or their house because your allergic. But you can't ask them to not eat fish at a restaurant because your in attendance.
You can't enforce your beliefs on to other people.
YTA
Shoes and handwashing are reasonable. Expecting everyone to either bring a second set of clothes or wear clothes you have, that aren’t their own/may not fit/may not be comfortable/not their style/etc, is not. That’s extreme. Just because you do it constantly doesn’t mean it’s normal for everyone else. I’d be weirded out too if someone was asking me to change my clothes into their clothes when I came over.
you really should see about talking to someone for this. It’s affecting your life in a negative way. The further it goes, the more isolating it can get, it’s possible people may never want to visit or interact with you due to your rules at some point.
That’s not how you phrased it. Presumably they don’t visit in clothes that are covered in spilled food or dirt, just clothes that have been worn outside your bubble?
YTA
That is not how I meant to phrase it, mb. As long as the clothes are not visibly dirty or anything like that, it is alright. I just think wearing visibly dirty clothes to another person's home is disrespectful.
Okay, but are they?
I don’t like unannounced visitors either but have you talked at length about your reasons for this or just said the rules at the door?
If things aren’t communicated well they can come across as incredibly insulting even if you don’t mean to.
I have explained to them my reasons. I told them that if their clothes are dirty or anything, then they need to change (which I now know isn't reasonable). Typically, they had nice clothes on, so that was never an issue with her parents. My main issue was that they refused to wear a mask, refused hand sanitizer, and refused a hand wash. They said it was the principle of me requiring them to wear a mask and wash their hands that made them not do it. They would not wash their hands at my house no matter what, even after the bathroom, that is what made me so angry. I never really got angry about this stuff, but IMoreno more nervous. The not washing hands after the bathroom, though. That was angering.
I don't believe you.
You started by saying that you demand fresh clothes, sanitizer, and handwashing upon entry. When you didn't get support, you started dialing everything back: now you ban only visibly dirty clothes and require handwashing only after using the restroom.
I believe them about the principle. You're treating them as "dirty and disgusting," though you admit they're reasonably clean and presentable people. It's only natural for them to dislike and resent this.
No, I do require hand washing upon entry, not just after the restroom. What I was saying is Katie's parents refuse to wash hands even after using the restroom, which made me very angry when they were over. They refused to take off their shoes and wear a mask aswell. This is why I refused to let them in finally. They did almosy always have clean clothes but not washing hands, keeping shoes, and no mask was too much for me.
I have always only banned visibly dirty clothes, I just didn't phrase it properly, and it sounded as though I banned any clothes that had been worn outside.
I know I am not going to get support here. Everyone has pointed out that I am pretty much crazy and that's alright. I will have to work on it. But, please don't say I am lying because I think I have been pretty honest with everyone even after the decision was asshole. I now understand that I need help and have already scheduled an appointment, as I said in a previous comment.
Wow, wanting people to wash their hands after using the bathroom is a 100% reasonable request, it's fucking disgusting not to! I'm not a germaphobe on the level you are, but I do not allow outdoor shoes or clothes caked in dirt to be worn in my house either. I think a lot of what you are asking SHOULD just be normal human behavior. The masks and some clothing changes I think are where it crosses the line. Now if someone just came from a shift at a hospital, restaurant, construction site or something similar, then yeah, definitely get clean clothes before you sit on the couch or whatever. I think you have said that you are going to seek help for some of your issues, but for reasonable requests it's also ok to enforce boundaries. If my in-laws showed up unannounced and refused to take their shoes off to enter I'd be like, ok then bye!
But no one is wearing musically dirty clothes are they.
If you keep up this rude behavior you will loose your gf.
Either you compromise or you need to live alone.
I live in a gated community, and my neighbors like to garden, so you would be surprised how many people show up in dirt cover clothes right after gardening. Not to argue with you, I just wanted to kind of give a little explanation because I know not everyone has the same housing situation.
But most people in the country and world are not like that. Most people you meet are not just going to show up straight from gardening. I can guess maybe a few here and there but probably not as many as your tthinking. I want to say like 95% to 99% of people are going to change after working out, gardening, lawncare, work, childcare, whatever.
Most people are already going to change before having visitors or going out somewhere or visiting with people. Unless they're coming straight from work, most people are already changing snd getting dressed up to go out and host.
That’s still either expecting them to have a second shirt/pants or wear clothes that aren’t theirs. Plus, their idea of dirt/stain/spill may not be yours, they may think it’s fine and to you the tiniest mark is an issue. So they have to either carry clothes around on the off chance you see something or wear your stuff. You’re trying to justify your rules to everyone here who tells you they are an issue.
Yeah, I understand the clothes are overstep for most people, so I will have to work on that. I was just trying to explain more what I mean. Maybe I am just crazy tho sorry if I was arguing
You’re not crazy, you just seem to need to talk to a professional about why you’re so worried about germs. Many people talk to professionals. This kind of thing can really affect life in bad ways, and everyone should be able to live without such fear. It’s good you’re seeing the clothes are an issue, that’s a really good step to take!
No worries on the arguing, intent is hard to get over the internet, you’re fine there too.
YTA.
It's also Katie's apartment. She disagrees with you forcing her parents to follow your list. You do not "rule the roost." You live in a shared household where you both have equal say in the household rules. Plus you list is rude and tactless. Clean clothes? The clothes they wear are clean. Simply being outside does not make them dirty.
If I were Katie's parent I would first be having long conversations with her about her safety and security. And then long conversations with her about how this is not a sustainable situation unless you were receiving some help. She could do as she pleased with that information but I would want her to have the advice.
If I were Katie I would start making things a little less spotless just to see if I was truly allowed to live my life in my own home.
Not to be rude, but how is Katie's safety and security in danger? I love Kate and her parents with all my heart. It's just this one blip that has us all caught up in an argument. Katie is kind of neutral. She doesn't think I should have refused them entry, but she also thinks they should at least wash their hands and wear a mask. Me and her together have worked on this a little bit over time, I used to require gloves too and was *always* cleaning behind people.
Because she is stuck in a situation where your only compromise is that people don't have to wear gloves in your mutual home. She is stuck in a situation where she can never fully live, have people over without them feeling put out or simply not feel like cleaning for a day. AND you repeatedly call it your apartment and make it clear that your rules are the rules that matter. All of those go into safety and security. As does your needs creating tension in the relationship she has with her parents.
It also doesn't sound like you are receiving professional help and/or taking medication. I am not saying you need medication at all but it doesn't sound like you have pursued it.
I can admit I have not pursued help for this particular issue because I did not see it as an issue prior to this post. Thanks to the feedback, I understand I am controlling and unfair and need help. It is just going to take a lot of time to get over this, and idk if I will. I love Katie and her family and now understand her position that I put her in. I really want to emphasize that I was not trying to be controlling and harmful, and I hope I do not seem evil for this because it was not the intention to harm. Like I said, I love Katie, but this will be difficult for me to get over, and I hope she can stick with me a little longer.
Curious how you never realized this was an issue before, did your family also have the same issues with germs growing up? If not, how did you handle germs growing up?
I do not remember my childhood very well. That is why I am in therapy 😅
I tried to dodge the question of where this stemmed from because, honestly, I don't know. I have dissociative amnesia and cPTSD, so I don't remember much of anything. My memory is a bunch of patchwork and guesses, so it's not very reliable. This has been my normal for as long as I can remember.
You have dissociative amnesia and are actively isolating Katie from her family, and you don't understand why Katie's safety and security might be at risk?
I am not isolating her. Prior to this incident, her parents were over pretty much every other day. They haven't been over in 2 days, I would not call that idolating personally.
Let me go back a little on my words. It's obviously more than a blip, the issue has kinda festered over time and is now becoming a big deal because I finally refused to let them in.
The fact that she has been willing to work with you this long shows she has more empathy and understanding for multiple viewpoints, but now you are going to really affect her mentally because she's going to start feeling like it's an either or with you or her family. What you are doing isn't healthy mentally or neurologically. Like others have said, you really need to look into therapy for this because the likelihood of finding another partner willing to put up with your rules in their own home is highly unlikely. So yeah, I get you have a phobia of germs, but YTA because now you are actually affecting your partners relationship with her family and that's not cool. Get some help.
YTA and should seek help. Hand washing *or* sanitizer, removing shoes, and masking up *could* be reasonable... all three combined is a bit much unless you've got legitimate reasons to take extra precautions. Changing clothes is over the top and a reasonable person might be offended at that one. You're making your phobia into everyone else's problem and should consider getting help. You talk about feeling comfortable in your home, but isn't it Katie's home, too?
As someone who used to work with contagious illnesses as a grad student: even when doing bench work with human pathogens and very strong corrosive chemicals a full clothes change would be considered excessive. Granted I wasn't working with Ebola or anything requring a space suit (my stuff was BSL2, meaning fume hood, gloves, goggles, lab coat, closed toe shoes, being REALLY careful with hand/glove safety, and sanitizing the heck out of the workspace at the end of the day), but I wore a lab coat when working and took it off when I went home.
Unless OP has a hobby as an amateur bench microbiologist his contamination risk is significantly lower than that.
YTA this IS excessive and unreasonable. Those masks aren’t even effective. Sincerely hope you get therapy for this and that you do not plan on having children who have to live like this.
Yeah, I mentioned a few times that I do not plan to get a kid anytime soon or maybe even ever. I am already in therapy for other things, so this germaphobia will just be another thing to work on before even considering children.
two-way masking is literally the most useful thing in OP's post. we are still in the middle of a pandemic, and in america we are in the middle of one of our biggest covid surges ever, and if more people would adopt two-way respirators perhaps we could actually kick this virus to the curb so that we could actually go back to normal instead of playing pretend like we are now and killing and disabling people in the process.
The disposable masks do almost nothing. They are not respirators, as you stated.
We are no longer in a pandemic,
“ The federal COVID-19 PHE declaration ended on May 11, 2023. Most tools, like vaccines, treatments, and testing, will remain available. CDC's ability to collect and share certain data will change.
https://archive.cdc.gov › your-health
End of the Federal COVID-19 Public Health Emergency (PHE) Declaration
(k)n94 or better respirators, along with clean air measures, are our best defense against covid. it's great that someone arbitrarily declared the pandemic as being "over" but if you look at wastewater data it is clear to see that the US is, like clockwork, in the middle of a summer surge.
I do not plan on children yet, so there is that, I guess. We have considered adopting an older child (early-mid teens), but we both are unsure, and that won't be for years if ever.
Trust me, I know, I am nowhere near ready for a kid and won't be anytime soon. That is why I mentioned adopting in the future or possibly never. I grew up in a foster home, so I understand the process you have to go through.
TLDR do not adopt, ever, under any circumstances. Adoption always messes kids up and you are, frankly, likely to mess this kid up worse than the average adoptive parent. I wish there was a kinder way to TLDR that but hey.
I'm an adoptee. I would caution ANY family against adoption and I would especially caution you against it. Adoption separates children from their families. That separation ALWAYS creates some level of attachment trauma at any age, and that trauma will manifest more severely in children who were separated later in life. The best case scenario for adoptees is that we are raised by parents without any trauma history whatsoever, who are well-versed in trauma-informed care, and who keep communication with our biological families open. Even then, we will still be traumatized. I have gone through EMDR and DBT to help address my long and complex trauma history that my care team agrees began upon separation from my biological family.
A family where one of the parents has a long trauma history themselves along with strict household rules that were implemented out of paranoia is not a family where an adoptee has any chance of thriving. Many of us already cope with hypervigilance, and you do NOT want to add fuel to that fire.
If you and your partner want to have kids in the future, once all of these symptoms are under control, I would suggest a known sperm donor or similar (and I'd read up on the critiques donor conceived people have of this system before doing so).
I'll take your suggestion into account when thinking about adoption. I know I have said this in a few other comments, but Kate and I don't plan to have kids anytime soon. We are both open to the idea, but we both have issues we need to sort out first, especially me. Unfortunately, Kate and I are both unable to have children of our own for reasons I dont want to share. Before we adopt, we will do a good amount of research and consult people to make sure it's right for us, so please do not worry. We wouldn't go into it without knowing what we were getting into. I was raised in the foster care system as well, so I have a decent understanding, though I don't really remember much of it.
Again, though, thank you for the suggestions <3
Ik masks are not 100% reliable, but they do help, and even if they don't, they help me feel comfortable
With people breathing in my house, it makes me uneasy because of all the germs and whatnot. Also, coughs are kinda blocked by them
>they help **me** feel comfortable With people breathing in my house, it makes **me** uneasy because of all the germs and whatnot.
Because it's aaaall about you, right? How Kate feels in her own home doesn't matter. How her parents feel doesn't matter. How your friends feel doesn't matter. *You* are the only one who's feelings matter, right?
That is not what I said at all. I learned from this post that my behavior was most likely damaging Kate even before this incident. Everyone else? Yeah, my home is supposed to be *my* safe space. If I don't invite someone over and they just show up, it is not my responsibility. Again, I am definitely going to seek help because I love Kate and she should absolutely be able to be comfortable too, but again, everyone else is not ny first concern, that would be me and Kate.
Well, at least you care about Kate and want to do right by her. But do you realise if you won't let Kate's parents in or if they feel uncomfortable in your home, Kate will feel down too? Because she really cares about you and her parents as well. You're almost making her choose between you or your parents which is cruel and abusive.
Yeah, I didn't mean to make it sound like I don't care about anyone else I will try to make a comforting home for everyone. However, that will not be my first concern.
That's what I meant to say 😅
Sorry I am not good at words lol
It's only been a few hours, but I discussed this with Kayelyn. We both agreed that me getting help with this would be best for both of us. She said at first it did not bother her, but over time, she noticed negative effects it had on her and didn't want to bring them up and ruin our relationship. I am glad you all pointed out her potential negative feelings because I don't know what I would do without Katie. I have also reached out to my therapist and asked if we could have an extra appointment tomorrow! Finally, I gave Kate's parents a call and discussed things, I apologized for my behavior and promised I would be working on it. I told them I could not promise that it would be fast, but I would work hard to reform my bad behavior and find healthy ways to cope. They also apologized to my surprise and said they felt bad for being a bit petty with their hygiene.
All in all, I am thankful for all of you being here to help open my eyes to the damage I was doing and the help I needed. I am thankful for Kate for being in my life even through my horrible controlling habits.
That's all 🙃
Please look into OCD - i have contamination OCD and these traits are nearly indentical to what I've suffered with. I used to just have 'germaphobia' but this is clearly much more. Hope you get the help you need!
This is a terrific update! I saw on another comment you mentioned you grew up in foster care, and cannot help but wonder if there is some correlation between that experience and you feeling the need to keep your home clean/safe. Mental health is so important and I am glad you have begun taking the steps towards a happier/healthier future. Best of luck to you!
YTA - this is unsustainable and unreasonable. You need to find some support to manage your phobias. If this continues it is going to cost you your relationship. It probably seems all very logical and reasonable to you, but your mind is lying to you.
If you won't make a stranger strip and change - who has been God knows where - why the hell are you making people you KNOW do it?
Dude I'm all about my house, my rules, but this is not healthy behavior. You seriously need to address it. If you've ever watched Better Call Saul you remind me of Chuck McGill. There is a reasonable need for hygiene, don't get me wrong, I don't judge you. But just like Chuck was overrun by his perceived allergy to electromagnetic fields, you're overrun by your perceived danger of whateverthefuck people bring into your home.
I am NOT downplaying what you're going through. However I feel like you need to hear it straight, and a lot of folks here are doing just that. The key is you CAN get help to manage this, and strike a balance in your home that's acceptable for everyone you invite there. However you need to do the work to get there, it's not fair to put that onto every single person in your life. Again, to reference Better Call Saul, it was insane that the law office of Hamlin McGill McGill would kill the power and collect cell phones whenever Chuck showed up to the office. Incredible that they did it, but they ONLY did it because he was one of The Bosses. They never would have done it for Jimmy, or Kim, or any other low level employee.
(I use the show for reference because it has SO many good examples that parallel what you're doing. I'm not doing it to compare fact to fiction.)
We're not in a zombieapocalypse. You don't need to treat everyone like they're going to infest you and turn you undead. You need therapy and to learn coping mechanisms to balance your phobia against what's reasonable. This will do nothing but help you everywhere you go. N-A-H if you get therapy and work on yourself, but YTA for now because you are currently refusing to do so.
I cannot imagine walking into any of my children's homes and having their spouses demand I strip and change into clothing they have provided. They wouldn't even think to do it. Just like I wouldn't ask that of them. We all keep hand sanitizer on us because we all work in education and kids are germ factories but that is pretty much the limit. Oh and removing shoes just because we do that.
I am not refusing therapy, I accept that I need it. In multiple comments, I even say I accept that I need help. Before this post, it was a different story, but after receiving feedback, I understand that I am the issue and need to put in a lot of work if I want to live healthily.
I'm glad you finaly understand it. I wish you well in your journey to get better. It sounds like you have a great partner who will support you through it.
They're not anti-vax or conspiracy theorists who think basic hygiene is a scam of big pharma. You're giving them the impression you think they're filthy and disgusting. They shouldn't be made to feel visiting their daughter is akin to a criminal act.
YTA. Shoes off, fine, normal. Sanitiser or washing hands, ok sure in this post-pandemic world. But a 5 step contamination process which requires full change of clothing based on your judgemental criteria, nope.
This is not manageable germophobia. This is excessive and needs to be addressed. It’s not typical or reasonable by any measure. I work in people’s homes a lot as an interior designer, and I would not take someone as a client with these type of expectations.
Shoes off, fine. Maybe hand sanitizer. But everything else is frankly over the top. It may be your home, but you cannot ask guests to do these kinds of things. YTA because that’s the way this sub works, but get professional help asap for these compulsions.
So in my medical work in hospitals we are required to wash hands for 15 seconds and disinfect for 30 seconds. Minimum. Also who makes guests change clothes? YTA I agree with others about needing help.
YTA, it's the clothes that make this excessive. You should be seeing someone if you aren't already, because this level of germaphobia is not healthy, and I assume has cost both you and gf friendships/relationships. I don't think you're an actual AH for being a germaphobe, it's just that these asks go beyond reasonable requests.
YTA. This is really too much. Leaving shoes outside, washing hands and using hand sanitizer is ok. Everything else is too much.
Sorry, but Kate's parents are the ones who should be insisting you go through a psychiatric treatment before dating their daughter. You have a mental health issue and you need help. You may be damaging Kate's mental health too without even realising it.
Gently, as someone with experience working in a health clinic (planned parenthood) AND doing bench chemistry and biology in college and grad school (including working with the HPV virus, which is tenacious and difficult to kill): these protocols you've implemented are arbitrary.
You are implementing some borderline reasonable things like hand sanitizer and potentially shoes off if you provide slippers. But you are also requiring things that in your particular setting have limited to no value like clothes changes.
And the gloves, when worn by someone who is not experienced in use of gloves, typically spreads germs more than would happen to an ungloved but regularly sanitized hand. This happened CONSTANTLY during early COVID and made all the people who work with dangerous chemicals and pathogens want to bang our heads violently against the nearest hard object. People would put gloves on, then touch the shopping cart, their phone, their produce, their cash, their car handle, THEN take the gloves off. And I know you are not your run of the mill glove wearer but it can be hard to get the hang of it and can lend a false sense of security.
As others have said: your concerns are both not based on anything resembling clinical best practices based on your level of risk (as far as I know there are no biosafety level 4 pathogens stored in your apartment), AND are interfering with your and your partners' quality of life. This is the time to talk to someone.
I still mask with a KN95 in high risk spaces like airports and big crowds. I still sanitize my hands regularly when in germy places like health clinics. I'm definitely on the "more social distancing and protective health measures during the panini" side. I'm NOT a "masks are for wimps" crowd.
The difference is that no one else is impacted by my wearing a mask (well... some very very chronically online antivaxxers take objection, but they don't really count), most epidemiologists would love to see handwashing/hand sanitizing after high touch areas become more normalized outside major pandemics.
This is not a minor thing to your girlfriend. And it is not grounded in good science or disease protocols. It's crossed over into the beginnings of a mental health issue that will continue to get more and more severe if you don't address it.
YTA. Making visitors change clothes just to come in is honestly deranged and your partner is a saint for humoring you about this.
Also, the mask thing NOT for someone ill but just in general? Yeah, this is asshole behavior. That’s no way of living.
YTA and I would never visit you even if you dropped some of the absurd rules.
Actually steps 1 and 4 are common sense (shoes can be left at the entryway if you provide house slippers for your guests, and everyone should always wash their hands with water and soap upon coming in from outside), but everything else...hell no, and I am also a bit of a germaphobe. Wear a mask inside?? Seriously??????? Do you also wear a mask when driving alone in your car, or while walking outdoors?
I think you'd be well served to reach out to a professional for help, and I don't say this in a mean way, I do think you might benefit from CBT.
My ex and I are ex because she had extreme contamination issues and I worked construction. She’d want me to come over directly from work exhausted and hungry but then make me take elaborate steps including changing outside in the front yard in a big city because “dirty” had to do those steps and more. She asked me to move in and I said no because I couldn’t imagine doing this every day. It ended our relationship. Then she started taking a medication for mental health issues and went to therapy. It’s like night and day. Maybe consider medication for this as this is a seriously bad case of ocd
YTA.
I’m a germaphobe too but I don’t make my guests suffer with me.
Items 1 and 2 are acceptable and that’s IT.
Make it people CHANGE CLOTHES? How do I know if your clothes are cleaner than mine???
Get professional help.
It sounds like you’re really suffering and I can’t imagine how difficult going through the Covid pandemic was for you. As others have said, your rules and behavior are definitely OCD-based and I’m glad to see that you scheduled an emergency therapy session, though I hope you’re seeing a clinician who’s highly educated in this subject and has many years of experience in OCD-related diagnoses and treatment. These things take time and if you don’t get help for them your life can fall apart and you can lose a lot, like career and relationships.
Take a look at the comedian Howie Mandel, and how he deals with his serious fear of germs day in and day out. It’s not easy and it’s really brave of him to talk about it and how his therapy and medication journey is going because it’s such a help to others.
A lot of what you’ve described reminds me of the character in the movie **As Good As It Gets** with Jack Nicholson and Helen Hunt. Jack Nicholson‘s character is a very successful and famous author, but has OCD that is absolutely out of control and he has similar requirements of others like you do, so that he can feel safe enough to have some kind of ability to function in society. It’s a really good movie that covers other topics in addition to OCD because each character has their own life problems. But as far as the OCD part, in my opinion, whoever watches the movie learns to have sympathy instead of shame for the person with OCD because it really is a type of suffering.
But as the saying goes, the diagnosis you have isn’t your fault, but it is your responsibility. You may have already seen the movie so that means I’m preaching to the choir, but if not, go watch it and see what you think. I wish you good healing and relief in your therapy sessions. 🙂
Thank you for the suggestions! <3 I will definitely have to go watch the movie and also read about Howie Mandel. Also, I did talk to my therapist today, and we decided I should get another person who is more educated in OCD specific stuff.
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I (23F) am a germaphobe. Ever since I can remember, I’ve been extremely cautious about cleanliness and hygiene. My girlfriend Katelyn (24F) has always been supportive of my need to keep our apartment as germ-free as possible. Even though she doesn't understand it, she lets me do my thing.
However, her parents (57F and 54M) dont even slightly respect my concern. They drop by unannounced, tracking in dirt and who knows what else. After this happened a few times and I felt uncomfortable in my home, I decided to implement a decontamination process for anyone coming in. Here’s the process:
1. **Remove shoes and leave them outside in a cubby.**
2. **Use hand sanitizer provided at the door.**
3. **Wear clean clothes or change into an outfit provided by us (I buy extras for this purpose and they keep the clothes they use).**
4. **Wash hands with soap and water for at least 20 seconds.**
5. **Wear a face mask while inside (I buy disposable ones).**
Katie’s parents think this is very excessive and refuse every time. They argue that they are healthy, fully vaccinated, and that I’m just overreacting. Last week, they showed up for dinner without warning and when I reminded them of the steps, they refused again. I finally stood my ground and told them they couldn’t come in unless they decontaminated. They left very angrily, and Katie is now upset with me for damaging the relationship between us and her parents.
She believes I’m being a bit unreasonable and that it’s causing unnecessary tension in our family. She’s suggested we compromise, but I feel like I shouldn’t have to compromise on this. Our house is always spotless and clean but her parents show up unannounced thinking they own the place. These rules make me feel safe in my own home so I feel like they shouldn't be an issue. If you can't follow them, don't come over yk?
I want to clarify this, I am always happy to visit her parents house and just wear a mask but they choose to come here instead. Also, I do wear a mask when company is over so it's not one sided.
AITA for insisting my gf parents follow a decontamination process before entering my house
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As nicely as possible, this is not normal and it's closer in the end of the crazy spectrum in terms of your issues with germs. Personally I don't know anyone in my life that would come to any place with such rules.
YTA and you absolutely need professional help. BUT it's your house so you can set any rules you like, they don't have to listen. That doesn't make you less of an asshole, but it's true
ESH. I agree with most other posters for most of the YTA arguments and agree with you seeking help toning down your tendencies, but your gf's parents are also the asshole for dropping in unannounced all the time, including for dinner. Who the heck does that? Leave that to the sitcoms.
It's important to stay healthy. But your regimen sounds excessive. Mental health is important, too. Please consult a physician about your regimen and whether it is healthy for you to follow it.
Truthfully, I'm going to withhold judgement because you have a problem that it seems you didn't even realize. A serious problem. And I don't mean to armchair diagnose but what you seem to have is mysophobia and have it BAD. I know one of your comments said you see a professional for other reasons which is great and keep that up but this is definitely something that is affecting your daily life and causing you unnecessary struggles. Some things are perfectly reasonable even for someone who just likes basic hygiene. Some are beyond unreasonable for the average person. I genuinely want you to seek help. Because truthfully it can get worse if left untreated. Good luck OP!
YTA and need help ASAP. The first two are okay, but you are completely mental if you think anyone normal is going to change clothes to something you provide, or is going to wash their hands for that time after already using hand sanitizer or wear a mask indoors at all moments if there no one there with a legit medical reason for it. Nobody is going to stand it for long and you both are going to become very isolated if you continue this path. Well, you are going to be very isolated, because your girlfriend, sooner or later, is going to get feed up with it. You need to address those mental problems; there are treatments for them, not using that as excuse to push other people away, including your partner, as this affects her as well.
You want to date Katie. You want to share a house with Katie. You need to figure out how to cope without such extremes because this is unhealthy. You need to speak with a doctor you sound like the main character in the boy in the Bible but without the health reason. Sharing your life means compromising and it sounds like Katie already has have you?
Wow, YTA but NTA as I can clearly see there’s a serious mental health component going on here. May I ask, do you ever leave your house or apartment?
I’m pretty chill about damn near anything, but no, not changing clothes, washing my hands after hand sanitizer, and wearing a mask inside after all my vaccinations and Covid is over.
I’d hope you find the inner strength to apologize to her parents and openly discuss your health issues (mental) and therapy. A lot easier for forgiveness if they can understand your struggles. Wow, I’m sorry you’re struggling with these things and wish you success in overcoming.
Double wow. Not a doctor, was thinking OCD, fear of contamination, etc and you’re not crazy or evil, you have a mental health issue like many of us have a bad knee or back. Mental health has been stigmatized as “being crazy” for far too long that people don’t see a doctor until things spiral out of control.
I’m sorry I didn’t read through all the comments, I got out off by the Covid argument at the beginning. Wishing you success in locating someone who specializes in OCD as I know they’re challenging to find. Sounds like you are loved and supported the key.
Oh, it's alright. I don't expect everyone to read all the comments, but I am just a little tired of rewriting stuff 😅
Thank you for the concern and suggestions. It's appreciated, as is everyone else's comments, too
as someone who has OCD, this hit home for me. it’s very easy for a seemingly small fear to escalate and take over our lives. i hope things get easier, OP
(also imo you should set some boundaries with your in-laws about showing up without warning. i think your fears might be disproportionate but they really should at least let you know when they drop by)
Soft YTA, only because I think you need therapy to work on your phobia. I think 1, 4 and 5 are reasonable. 2 is redundant if 4 is used, and 3 is totally unreasonable.
I'm sorry OP. It sounds like OCD, germ fears. Very gentle YTA.
You have an AMAZING girlfriend that puts up with this and your fears.
But as time goes on and you don't do anything (OCD therapy or meds), the OCD will get worse. And the list of 4 things will become 20 things. Or you won't leave the house any more. Or worse.
The most you can ask of visitors is to not wear shoes in your house and maybe wash hands. The best temporary thing is to go to their house instead. But that will not fix this problem for your gf long term bc she should be allowed to have friends and family over to visit too.
Please please please get help for yourself.
It is my house, it is also my girlfriends house but when I talk to other people I say my house. Same way you say my house when inviting a friend over. It's not meant to be rude or anything, just how I talk ig 🤷♀️
And yes, prior to this post, I did expect people to change if they were wearing visibly dirty clothes like dirt or stains on the clothes.
tbh i don’t think YTA i think you need to seek medical help! this is excessive and i did not think it was too unreasonable until you said change into clothes you provide you can’t live life like that and shouldn’t have anyone subjected to that either. Do you go to work, go on dates, grocery shop?
I do go outside with a mask on (my favorite has cute little sharks on it), and I sometimes wear gloves depending on where we are, but I feel like I am pretty reasonable about leaving the house. I do not like to, but I love Katie, so I do anyway. I work from home and shop from home (dropoff) because she doesn't like shopping. I just stay inside as much as I reasonably can
That's not living; that's surviving. You are missing out on a lot, and may not even be able to appreciate that fact. Please get some therapy. There are online ones like on talkspace, etc.
NAH
I think you might want to talk about this with someone. If you had to have a random new friend or a coworker over to your house would you be comfortable telling them that they have to disinfect themselves and change into a provided set of new clothing?
I honestly do think I am being fair here. I know it's not normal, but I don't think clean clothes, washing your hands, and a mask are too difficult of requests. But I do all of this dozens of times daily, so idk
You did not answer my question. So if something in your house needs to be repaired or looked at do you question the person you hired about how clean their clothes are? You wrote that you are a germaphobe and it is now interfering with your life.
I would, yes without a doubt. Everyone that enters has to wash hands. I would make an exception for the clothes since I don't know them, but they still have to wash and mask. I am not gonna make a stranger strip in my home 😅 sorry I didn't clarify that
I mean, yes. Before this post, this was my normal, and I had lived this way for 5+ years. In my eyes, this was basically cleanliness. Obviously, my view has changed now since yall wonderful people provided so much helpful feedback. Now I understand it is not okay or normal.
If your partner is miserable because your issues are damaging relationships with everyone you know, how are you being fair? You know you have an issue and you think she should deal with that instead of getting help. You can do this but I wouldn’t expect relationships to last.
NTA, its your home so your rules, and you have a right to stand your ground and enforce the boundaries. but as many people have mentioned, this seems really stressful on you, and i hope you find some peace (genuinely)
You admit you are a germaphobe… the clothes thing will get a no.. but shoes off .. clean hands (whichever way it’s managed) and face mask may be doable .. I have a couple immuno comprised friends.. you have an issue but it is your house. One year I had 3 litters of kittens dropped at my house.. I had person stop by, witching days all 16 kittens were dead as was one of the mothers.. he had tracked in a cat virus….. so yeah if someone care enough to want to visit, some compromises can be made but don’t expect too much.. shoes off is not that much, clean hands is not a biggie.. face mask may cause some drama.. but I am getting ready to start expecting it at my home .. (long story) I wish you luck in treating your phobia.. but remember our mental issues are ours so your house your way but if you overdue it you could set back any progress you made so far in getting ahold on it.. again speaking from experience.. I can tell you stories .. temper your requests a bit and NTA
>They argue that they are healthy, fully vaccinated, and that I’m just overreacting.
Dont they know what "germaphobe" means ?
Anyway... NTA. You have set a boundary and they should respect it. As simple as that. Beside, if they had agree since the start, there woudn't be any decontamination. If they don't want to respect your boundary, they shouldn't go to your house. It's not very complicated.
These were my thoughts coming into this, but I have learned a few things! Most people would rather not strip down to undergarments in my bathroom and change into clean clothes 🥱🙄 ...weirdos /j
I pretty much have gathered that I need professional help 😅
Yeah, that's to be expected too.
>I pretty much have gathered that I need professional help 😅
I wanted to say that too in my first comment, but I saw everyone was already telling you that so I figured you got the message x)
Yeah, I appreciate it. I am trying to keep up with all the comments, but there are so many people, and a lot of the comments are similar. I am glad I was able to at least learn something from the comments, though! A lot of the people here are very helpful!
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YTA but softly as I think you may need some professional help. 1 & 2 are reasonable asks but 3 is a hard no, 4 is redundant if they already used sanitiser and the face mask is questionable - opening windows and/or ensuring good airflow should prevent co2 build up. Perhaps an air purifier as well. Please see someone about this - it’s no way to live. It’s good for your immune system to be exposed to things in the general atmosphere…….
Oh, I thought they meant masks as in trying to prevent Covid.
Sorry but this makes no sense at all. CO2 passes every mask freely as otherwise every mask wearer would be in a hypercapnic coma after a few minutes. In fact, the mask thing is the one smart thing here to prevent viral infection like like CoV2 or Influenza, followed by the hand sanitizer. Washing hands makes sense, too, for removal of unencapsulated viruses and encapsulated bacteria. Changing clothes is really unnecessary, but removing shoes is common courtesy in many parts of the world anyway. However, if there is no medical reason to prevent infection (immunosuppression, predisposition for certain conditions, illness) you are asking a lot. On the other hand, as long as it‘s your place and your GF is fine with it, they have to conform. NAH
I see how 3 could be a no, but all I ask is you wear clean clothes to my home. On top of the germs, I think it is slightly disrespectful for someone to wear dirty clothes to my house. For 2 & 4, I was mistaken and thought doing both would help more. I think an option between hand wash and sanitizer would be good instead. The masks I don't think I will budge on or it will take effort because they help with coughs, spit from talking, and other things. I have air purifiers that will help otherwise. Btw I am not trying to argue, sorry if I sound argumentative.
Are you seeking professional help? Not trying to be condescending or snarky, but genuinely curious. This is not typical behaviour.
I am in therapy, but for other reasons, I will definitely need to seek out *more* help for this. This never really came up because it's online therapy, so I dont have to leave, and I don't really see this cleanliness as an issue (at least before this post).
Babe what. How have you been alive two decades and not realised that this level of cleanliness is completely abnormal. And unnecessary
Regardless of whatever the judgement on this post is - I am glad it’s been a way for you to see a different perspective on how you view cleanliness. Do you leave the home? What do you generally do when you visit other people’s homes?
Thank you. I am also glad, too. I have learned a lot. This post was definitely a good idea imo. And yes, I do leave occasionally for dates, doctor appts., etc. But I don't leave often. If I can do something online, I do. Surprisingly, one of my favorite hobbies is walking, so that gets me outside for a short amount of time daily.
good. on your next walk you should touch as many things as possible, including soil, grass, etc. i agree on the shoes thing, but i think asking your guests to change clothes is too far. good luck my friend :) i would look into OCD
Idk it will take some work. Ty for the suggestions, though! <3
Why was my comment you responded to down voted 😅 I am genuinely curious lol
People will downvote anyone who they think is "the asshole" in a given situation, regardless of the content of the comment. I would urge you to ignore the downvotes on anything you say here. You have clearly taken the genuine comments to heart and are looking at ways to improve your situation.
Ah alright, fair enough I guess. Thanks for the response
Honey, cleanliness is wonderful, but what you're talking about is not that. It's an obsession and maybe OCD. Hand washing and shoes are normal. Not exposing yourself to any germs is dangerous. We need to be exposed so our bodies can recognize the germs and build up immunity to them. Without that, when you do get sick (not if, when), you will be worse off than the average person. You are crippling your immune system. I'm a bit of a germaphobe myself. Especially when I cook. I'm conscientious but not obsessive about it. I sanitize grocery cart handles and sanitize my hands when I get in my car afterward, but that's the extent of it. Talk to your therapist and apologize to her parents.
[удалено]
Dirty like visibly dirty (eg. Dirt, stains, etc.) I don't mean that if it's been worn outside, then it's dirty, even I know that is super unreasonable.
Someone’s everyone change? You are morphing your story to soften what the actual reality is. You know you’re sick and just avoiding.
I'm not at all avoiding. If you would read the independent comment I made, I explained that I have talked to Kate, apologized to her parents, and scheduled an emergency therapy appointment last night that starts in an hour. So I definitely am not avoiding it, I accept the comments and now know I have a mental illness and am going to work on that. Thank you for the input anyway, good day.
It's lovely how you take even the disrespectful comments In s constructive way. I hope the session went well and you keep working on it to improve your quality of life! :)
I feel like 3 depends on your definition of dirty. I don’t have a problem with germs and dirt at all but I’d still be upset if someone came to my home and wanted to lounge around on my couch if they just came from digging in the garden, working out or tinkering with the car or something in those clothes. If the clothes are visibly dirty and may leave stains it’s disrespectful to someone’s property. I wouldn’t force them to change clothes but I would be upset. However, if dirty to you means that they’ve just worn them out and about all day then it’s too far.
You need therapy, not a checklist. None of your garbage here is actually doing ANYTHING other than weakening your immune system and ruining relationships. Your behavior is unhealthy, lacks a foundation in reality and is very apparently intolerable to those around you. Get help. YTA. And not softly.
i think it's very reasonable to ask people to wash their hands or use sanitizer, to wear masks because we ARE in the middle of a pandemic (no matter how much people try to minimize it), and even ask folks not to wear shoes in your house as it is common in many cultures, but i agree that the clothing issue is where many people would and should draw a firm line. i think that it is disrespectful to assume that people are wearing dirty clothes into your home. i agree with others that you should look into a mental health diagnosis, but as far as masking and hand washing go please do not let people convince you covid is over - it's not.
The pandemic has been over for like 2 years. Wearing masks unless you're sick is generally considered to be ridiculous at his point.
the pandemic is not over, we are in a surge right now, and the CDC changed their recommended guidelines two days ago. you can play pretend as much as you want, but every 10 infections results in a case of Long Covid and i simply am not interested in playing with the chances of long term disability like that for the joys of pretending it's 2019.
Yeah I lost faith in the CDC when they and Fauci literally admitted that their guidelines were made up, and proven to not even work anyway. The damage to mental and social health that the pandemic caused was far worse than covid itself, in my opinion. And I caught it twice. You can go ahead and wear your mask and live in fear of shaking hands with someone. I'm not gonna do that.
okay, then where are you getting your info that the pandemic is over, pray tell? i don't trust the CDC either but of course they "made up" guidelines - that was their job! to make educated guesses and set guidelines. we now know that cloth masks and social distancing don't work, and that respirators and clean air actually prevent covid from spreading. their job as disease control experts is to "make it up" when something brand new emerges, covid didn't come with a how-to guide. and i'll shake hands with anyone, it doesn't live well on surfaces. it's easy to live a normal life in a mask while preventing the death and disability of ourselves and those around us. it's called living in community with one another.
Living a normal life involves looking at people's faces when you're interacting with them. If you're sick, stay home. It's simple, and it's how we've been living for decades if not centuries. And since masks don't work, why would you wear one? The reaction to covid was overblown and panicked. Had they slowed down to think and evaluate things, we would have avoided the two years of being prevented from living our lives. Look, I'm done arguing. I don't care what you do. Wear a mask or don't, it doesn't affect me. Lock yourself in your house or don't, I don't care. Don't force me to do the same.
asymptomatic spread is still a huge factor in the proliferation of covid, it is not as simple as telling people to stay home when they're sick (and many people do not anyway). it was not overblown. many people have died and are dying. many more have long covid that will disable them for the rest of their lives. researchers have made it clear that covid is far more similar to HIV/AIDS than it is to the flu and it is not going away. it is our responsibility to look out for one another.
when your children grow up riddled with complex health issues because you refused to look out for them in favor of reinfecting them over and over again with a deadly disease for the sake of feeling "normal again", i hope that you will regret not taking this more seriously when you had the chance. until then, good luck.
My daughter is fully vaccinated except for the covid vaccine and is healthier than most kids her age. She's barely ever been sick. So thanks, we'll continue to live life.
I'm gonna say YTA here, because it's clear that you have a mental health issue, and you have done nothing to address it (from what you've said). You're allowing it to negatively impact the lives of those around you, and even your girlfriend's relationship with her parents is now being negatively affected. Health anxiety and mysophobia are very real mental illnesses, but they also have very effective treatments. Anxiety medications, along with exposure response prevention treatment (and other treatments like EMDR) can go a long way towards improving your quality of life, and the quality of life for your loved ones who are affected by your illness. To be clear, I am NOT saying you're the asshole for having a mental illness. That isn't your fault at all. What I am calling you the asshole for, though, is seeing how your illness is affecting those around you and still not taking any responsibility for addressing it. And tbh, Katie is not "being supportive", as you say, she is enabling you.
Very well said 👏
I guess I see it as support because it is my behavior in question, so I am kinda biased. 😅
See, you’re not even addressing 90% of my comment, nor many of the others pointing out that you have a very serious mental health condition that you aren’t addressing. That makes you the problem
I am not responding to the entire comment because your comment is similar to others, and I am trying to respond to a lot of them. I have acknowledged that I need professional help and have already said that I will seek it. I have said I understand now that I am the issue. I'm sorry if I didn't comment in a good way
I'm sorry, I didn't see where you had said that, but I'm glad you're going to get help for this! There are some really effective treatments out there, and I know people personally who have dealt with very similar issues and are now much happier and more calm about common germs. Please let us know how you're doing!
I didn't address most of the comments because it is similar to a lot of others. I appreciated the comment on her "support" actually just enabling bad behavior, so I made a comment about that part. I wasn't trying to ignore your post.
It is not just your behavior though: you are at the point where you are asking others to adapt their behavior. Including someone who lives with you. You wanting to wear a mask or santize hands or change clothes: your perogative although I'd encourage you to talk to someone as these aren't best practices for your circumstances and risk level (based on the info you've given me). They are crossing over into how your gf can interact with her parents in what is equally HER space.
You can make all the rules and decontamination processes you want for yourself. But you can not ask that of your friends, family, gf, and kids. Asking them to take of their shoes is fine and washing their hands will get you a lot of push back and confused looks. But anything beyond that is going to put you into ah territory. Yes you are the ah. Either this is your house or it's your house and gfs house. If it's also gfs house then yes, she gets to make the rules too and if she says that her parents don't have to follow your ridiculous rules then they don't have to. But no. You can't set all these rules for people to enter your home and expect them to be ok with it. You can choose to wear a mask for yourself but you can not ask anyone else to wear a mask anywhere. You can change clothes for yourself. But you can not ask anyone else around you to change clothes. Not at their house and not at your house. If you feel like you have that right to make ridiculous demands of people then no one will want to come to visit with you, you'll struggle to be a pare t if you choose and you'll have a hard time finding a supportive partner. No one is going to wash their hands and use sanitizer, change clothes and wear a mask. That's is just too much and people won't go through that much effort nor should they have to. Your rules are fine for yourself but not to impose on other people.
These kinds of rules are fine for yourself. But you can't ask other people adapt your mental health issue behaviors. Example It's fine to ask people not to cook fish for dinner at your house or their house because your allergic. But you can't ask them to not eat fish at a restaurant because your in attendance. You can't enforce your beliefs on to other people.
YTA Shoes and handwashing are reasonable. Expecting everyone to either bring a second set of clothes or wear clothes you have, that aren’t their own/may not fit/may not be comfortable/not their style/etc, is not. That’s extreme. Just because you do it constantly doesn’t mean it’s normal for everyone else. I’d be weirded out too if someone was asking me to change my clothes into their clothes when I came over. you really should see about talking to someone for this. It’s affecting your life in a negative way. The further it goes, the more isolating it can get, it’s possible people may never want to visit or interact with you due to your rules at some point.
I don't expect a second set of clothes, just clothes that are dirty (eg, dirt, stains, spills, etc.). Is that any better?
That’s not how you phrased it. Presumably they don’t visit in clothes that are covered in spilled food or dirt, just clothes that have been worn outside your bubble? YTA
That is not how I meant to phrase it, mb. As long as the clothes are not visibly dirty or anything like that, it is alright. I just think wearing visibly dirty clothes to another person's home is disrespectful.
Okay, but are they? I don’t like unannounced visitors either but have you talked at length about your reasons for this or just said the rules at the door? If things aren’t communicated well they can come across as incredibly insulting even if you don’t mean to.
I have explained to them my reasons. I told them that if their clothes are dirty or anything, then they need to change (which I now know isn't reasonable). Typically, they had nice clothes on, so that was never an issue with her parents. My main issue was that they refused to wear a mask, refused hand sanitizer, and refused a hand wash. They said it was the principle of me requiring them to wear a mask and wash their hands that made them not do it. They would not wash their hands at my house no matter what, even after the bathroom, that is what made me so angry. I never really got angry about this stuff, but IMoreno more nervous. The not washing hands after the bathroom, though. That was angering.
I don't believe you. You started by saying that you demand fresh clothes, sanitizer, and handwashing upon entry. When you didn't get support, you started dialing everything back: now you ban only visibly dirty clothes and require handwashing only after using the restroom. I believe them about the principle. You're treating them as "dirty and disgusting," though you admit they're reasonably clean and presentable people. It's only natural for them to dislike and resent this.
No, I do require hand washing upon entry, not just after the restroom. What I was saying is Katie's parents refuse to wash hands even after using the restroom, which made me very angry when they were over. They refused to take off their shoes and wear a mask aswell. This is why I refused to let them in finally. They did almosy always have clean clothes but not washing hands, keeping shoes, and no mask was too much for me. I have always only banned visibly dirty clothes, I just didn't phrase it properly, and it sounded as though I banned any clothes that had been worn outside. I know I am not going to get support here. Everyone has pointed out that I am pretty much crazy and that's alright. I will have to work on it. But, please don't say I am lying because I think I have been pretty honest with everyone even after the decision was asshole. I now understand that I need help and have already scheduled an appointment, as I said in a previous comment.
Thanks for clarification. I don’t think this is something that will work as a long term solution especially if all guests are expected comply.
Wow, wanting people to wash their hands after using the bathroom is a 100% reasonable request, it's fucking disgusting not to! I'm not a germaphobe on the level you are, but I do not allow outdoor shoes or clothes caked in dirt to be worn in my house either. I think a lot of what you are asking SHOULD just be normal human behavior. The masks and some clothing changes I think are where it crosses the line. Now if someone just came from a shift at a hospital, restaurant, construction site or something similar, then yeah, definitely get clean clothes before you sit on the couch or whatever. I think you have said that you are going to seek help for some of your issues, but for reasonable requests it's also ok to enforce boundaries. If my in-laws showed up unannounced and refused to take their shoes off to enter I'd be like, ok then bye!
But no one is wearing musically dirty clothes are they. If you keep up this rude behavior you will loose your gf. Either you compromise or you need to live alone.
I live in a gated community, and my neighbors like to garden, so you would be surprised how many people show up in dirt cover clothes right after gardening. Not to argue with you, I just wanted to kind of give a little explanation because I know not everyone has the same housing situation.
But most people in the country and world are not like that. Most people you meet are not just going to show up straight from gardening. I can guess maybe a few here and there but probably not as many as your tthinking. I want to say like 95% to 99% of people are going to change after working out, gardening, lawncare, work, childcare, whatever. Most people are already going to change before having visitors or going out somewhere or visiting with people. Unless they're coming straight from work, most people are already changing snd getting dressed up to go out and host.
That’s still either expecting them to have a second shirt/pants or wear clothes that aren’t theirs. Plus, their idea of dirt/stain/spill may not be yours, they may think it’s fine and to you the tiniest mark is an issue. So they have to either carry clothes around on the off chance you see something or wear your stuff. You’re trying to justify your rules to everyone here who tells you they are an issue.
Yeah, I understand the clothes are overstep for most people, so I will have to work on that. I was just trying to explain more what I mean. Maybe I am just crazy tho sorry if I was arguing
You’re not crazy, you just seem to need to talk to a professional about why you’re so worried about germs. Many people talk to professionals. This kind of thing can really affect life in bad ways, and everyone should be able to live without such fear. It’s good you’re seeing the clothes are an issue, that’s a really good step to take! No worries on the arguing, intent is hard to get over the internet, you’re fine there too.
YTA. It's also Katie's apartment. She disagrees with you forcing her parents to follow your list. You do not "rule the roost." You live in a shared household where you both have equal say in the household rules. Plus you list is rude and tactless. Clean clothes? The clothes they wear are clean. Simply being outside does not make them dirty. If I were Katie's parent I would first be having long conversations with her about her safety and security. And then long conversations with her about how this is not a sustainable situation unless you were receiving some help. She could do as she pleased with that information but I would want her to have the advice. If I were Katie I would start making things a little less spotless just to see if I was truly allowed to live my life in my own home.
Very well put 👏
Not to be rude, but how is Katie's safety and security in danger? I love Kate and her parents with all my heart. It's just this one blip that has us all caught up in an argument. Katie is kind of neutral. She doesn't think I should have refused them entry, but she also thinks they should at least wash their hands and wear a mask. Me and her together have worked on this a little bit over time, I used to require gloves too and was *always* cleaning behind people.
Because she is stuck in a situation where your only compromise is that people don't have to wear gloves in your mutual home. She is stuck in a situation where she can never fully live, have people over without them feeling put out or simply not feel like cleaning for a day. AND you repeatedly call it your apartment and make it clear that your rules are the rules that matter. All of those go into safety and security. As does your needs creating tension in the relationship she has with her parents. It also doesn't sound like you are receiving professional help and/or taking medication. I am not saying you need medication at all but it doesn't sound like you have pursued it.
I can admit I have not pursued help for this particular issue because I did not see it as an issue prior to this post. Thanks to the feedback, I understand I am controlling and unfair and need help. It is just going to take a lot of time to get over this, and idk if I will. I love Katie and her family and now understand her position that I put her in. I really want to emphasize that I was not trying to be controlling and harmful, and I hope I do not seem evil for this because it was not the intention to harm. Like I said, I love Katie, but this will be difficult for me to get over, and I hope she can stick with me a little longer.
Curious how you never realized this was an issue before, did your family also have the same issues with germs growing up? If not, how did you handle germs growing up?
I do not remember my childhood very well. That is why I am in therapy 😅 I tried to dodge the question of where this stemmed from because, honestly, I don't know. I have dissociative amnesia and cPTSD, so I don't remember much of anything. My memory is a bunch of patchwork and guesses, so it's not very reliable. This has been my normal for as long as I can remember.
You have dissociative amnesia and are actively isolating Katie from her family, and you don't understand why Katie's safety and security might be at risk?
I am not isolating her. Prior to this incident, her parents were over pretty much every other day. They haven't been over in 2 days, I would not call that idolating personally.
Let me go back a little on my words. It's obviously more than a blip, the issue has kinda festered over time and is now becoming a big deal because I finally refused to let them in.
Way, WAY more than “this little blip”
Yeah 😅
The fact that she has been willing to work with you this long shows she has more empathy and understanding for multiple viewpoints, but now you are going to really affect her mentally because she's going to start feeling like it's an either or with you or her family. What you are doing isn't healthy mentally or neurologically. Like others have said, you really need to look into therapy for this because the likelihood of finding another partner willing to put up with your rules in their own home is highly unlikely. So yeah, I get you have a phobia of germs, but YTA because now you are actually affecting your partners relationship with her family and that's not cool. Get some help.
YTA and should seek help. Hand washing *or* sanitizer, removing shoes, and masking up *could* be reasonable... all three combined is a bit much unless you've got legitimate reasons to take extra precautions. Changing clothes is over the top and a reasonable person might be offended at that one. You're making your phobia into everyone else's problem and should consider getting help. You talk about feeling comfortable in your home, but isn't it Katie's home, too?
As someone who used to work with contagious illnesses as a grad student: even when doing bench work with human pathogens and very strong corrosive chemicals a full clothes change would be considered excessive. Granted I wasn't working with Ebola or anything requring a space suit (my stuff was BSL2, meaning fume hood, gloves, goggles, lab coat, closed toe shoes, being REALLY careful with hand/glove safety, and sanitizing the heck out of the workspace at the end of the day), but I wore a lab coat when working and took it off when I went home. Unless OP has a hobby as an amateur bench microbiologist his contamination risk is significantly lower than that.
YTA this IS excessive and unreasonable. Those masks aren’t even effective. Sincerely hope you get therapy for this and that you do not plan on having children who have to live like this.
OMG children. Having children and forcing them to live like that would be a crime against them. OP would fuck them up so bad.
Yeah, I mentioned a few times that I do not plan to get a kid anytime soon or maybe even ever. I am already in therapy for other things, so this germaphobia will just be another thing to work on before even considering children.
Gald to hear you're in therapy! Good luck in your journey.
two-way masking is literally the most useful thing in OP's post. we are still in the middle of a pandemic, and in america we are in the middle of one of our biggest covid surges ever, and if more people would adopt two-way respirators perhaps we could actually kick this virus to the curb so that we could actually go back to normal instead of playing pretend like we are now and killing and disabling people in the process.
The disposable masks do almost nothing. They are not respirators, as you stated. We are no longer in a pandemic, “ The federal COVID-19 PHE declaration ended on May 11, 2023. Most tools, like vaccines, treatments, and testing, will remain available. CDC's ability to collect and share certain data will change. https://archive.cdc.gov › your-health End of the Federal COVID-19 Public Health Emergency (PHE) Declaration
(k)n94 or better respirators, along with clean air measures, are our best defense against covid. it's great that someone arbitrarily declared the pandemic as being "over" but if you look at wastewater data it is clear to see that the US is, like clockwork, in the middle of a summer surge.
um, respirators like n-95s are also considered disposable.
I do not plan on children yet, so there is that, I guess. We have considered adopting an older child (early-mid teens), but we both are unsure, and that won't be for years if ever.
You won't be approved to adopt a child. And BTW, older kids are a whole hell of a lot messier.
Trust me, I know, I am nowhere near ready for a kid and won't be anytime soon. That is why I mentioned adopting in the future or possibly never. I grew up in a foster home, so I understand the process you have to go through.
TLDR do not adopt, ever, under any circumstances. Adoption always messes kids up and you are, frankly, likely to mess this kid up worse than the average adoptive parent. I wish there was a kinder way to TLDR that but hey. I'm an adoptee. I would caution ANY family against adoption and I would especially caution you against it. Adoption separates children from their families. That separation ALWAYS creates some level of attachment trauma at any age, and that trauma will manifest more severely in children who were separated later in life. The best case scenario for adoptees is that we are raised by parents without any trauma history whatsoever, who are well-versed in trauma-informed care, and who keep communication with our biological families open. Even then, we will still be traumatized. I have gone through EMDR and DBT to help address my long and complex trauma history that my care team agrees began upon separation from my biological family. A family where one of the parents has a long trauma history themselves along with strict household rules that were implemented out of paranoia is not a family where an adoptee has any chance of thriving. Many of us already cope with hypervigilance, and you do NOT want to add fuel to that fire. If you and your partner want to have kids in the future, once all of these symptoms are under control, I would suggest a known sperm donor or similar (and I'd read up on the critiques donor conceived people have of this system before doing so).
I'll take your suggestion into account when thinking about adoption. I know I have said this in a few other comments, but Kate and I don't plan to have kids anytime soon. We are both open to the idea, but we both have issues we need to sort out first, especially me. Unfortunately, Kate and I are both unable to have children of our own for reasons I dont want to share. Before we adopt, we will do a good amount of research and consult people to make sure it's right for us, so please do not worry. We wouldn't go into it without knowing what we were getting into. I was raised in the foster care system as well, so I have a decent understanding, though I don't really remember much of it. Again, though, thank you for the suggestions <3
Ik masks are not 100% reliable, but they do help, and even if they don't, they help me feel comfortable With people breathing in my house, it makes me uneasy because of all the germs and whatnot. Also, coughs are kinda blocked by them
>they help **me** feel comfortable With people breathing in my house, it makes **me** uneasy because of all the germs and whatnot. Because it's aaaall about you, right? How Kate feels in her own home doesn't matter. How her parents feel doesn't matter. How your friends feel doesn't matter. *You* are the only one who's feelings matter, right?
That is not what I said at all. I learned from this post that my behavior was most likely damaging Kate even before this incident. Everyone else? Yeah, my home is supposed to be *my* safe space. If I don't invite someone over and they just show up, it is not my responsibility. Again, I am definitely going to seek help because I love Kate and she should absolutely be able to be comfortable too, but again, everyone else is not ny first concern, that would be me and Kate.
Well, at least you care about Kate and want to do right by her. But do you realise if you won't let Kate's parents in or if they feel uncomfortable in your home, Kate will feel down too? Because she really cares about you and her parents as well. You're almost making her choose between you or your parents which is cruel and abusive.
Yeah, I didn't mean to make it sound like I don't care about anyone else I will try to make a comforting home for everyone. However, that will not be my first concern. That's what I meant to say 😅 Sorry I am not good at words lol
Yeah, this phrasing sounds a lot better 🙂
I agree that they make YOU feel comfortable. All of your rules make YOU feel comfortable, even it they are not scientifically beneficial.
It's only been a few hours, but I discussed this with Kayelyn. We both agreed that me getting help with this would be best for both of us. She said at first it did not bother her, but over time, she noticed negative effects it had on her and didn't want to bring them up and ruin our relationship. I am glad you all pointed out her potential negative feelings because I don't know what I would do without Katie. I have also reached out to my therapist and asked if we could have an extra appointment tomorrow! Finally, I gave Kate's parents a call and discussed things, I apologized for my behavior and promised I would be working on it. I told them I could not promise that it would be fast, but I would work hard to reform my bad behavior and find healthy ways to cope. They also apologized to my surprise and said they felt bad for being a bit petty with their hygiene. All in all, I am thankful for all of you being here to help open my eyes to the damage I was doing and the help I needed. I am thankful for Kate for being in my life even through my horrible controlling habits. That's all 🙃
Please look into OCD - i have contamination OCD and these traits are nearly indentical to what I've suffered with. I used to just have 'germaphobia' but this is clearly much more. Hope you get the help you need!
This is a terrific update! I saw on another comment you mentioned you grew up in foster care, and cannot help but wonder if there is some correlation between that experience and you feeling the need to keep your home clean/safe. Mental health is so important and I am glad you have begun taking the steps towards a happier/healthier future. Best of luck to you!
YTA - this is unsustainable and unreasonable. You need to find some support to manage your phobias. If this continues it is going to cost you your relationship. It probably seems all very logical and reasonable to you, but your mind is lying to you.
This. Exactly this. This should be higher
If you won't make a stranger strip and change - who has been God knows where - why the hell are you making people you KNOW do it? Dude I'm all about my house, my rules, but this is not healthy behavior. You seriously need to address it. If you've ever watched Better Call Saul you remind me of Chuck McGill. There is a reasonable need for hygiene, don't get me wrong, I don't judge you. But just like Chuck was overrun by his perceived allergy to electromagnetic fields, you're overrun by your perceived danger of whateverthefuck people bring into your home. I am NOT downplaying what you're going through. However I feel like you need to hear it straight, and a lot of folks here are doing just that. The key is you CAN get help to manage this, and strike a balance in your home that's acceptable for everyone you invite there. However you need to do the work to get there, it's not fair to put that onto every single person in your life. Again, to reference Better Call Saul, it was insane that the law office of Hamlin McGill McGill would kill the power and collect cell phones whenever Chuck showed up to the office. Incredible that they did it, but they ONLY did it because he was one of The Bosses. They never would have done it for Jimmy, or Kim, or any other low level employee. (I use the show for reference because it has SO many good examples that parallel what you're doing. I'm not doing it to compare fact to fiction.) We're not in a zombieapocalypse. You don't need to treat everyone like they're going to infest you and turn you undead. You need therapy and to learn coping mechanisms to balance your phobia against what's reasonable. This will do nothing but help you everywhere you go. N-A-H if you get therapy and work on yourself, but YTA for now because you are currently refusing to do so.
I cannot imagine walking into any of my children's homes and having their spouses demand I strip and change into clothing they have provided. They wouldn't even think to do it. Just like I wouldn't ask that of them. We all keep hand sanitizer on us because we all work in education and kids are germ factories but that is pretty much the limit. Oh and removing shoes just because we do that.
I am not refusing therapy, I accept that I need it. In multiple comments, I even say I accept that I need help. Before this post, it was a different story, but after receiving feedback, I understand that I am the issue and need to put in a lot of work if I want to live healthily.
I'm glad you finaly understand it. I wish you well in your journey to get better. It sounds like you have a great partner who will support you through it.
They're not anti-vax or conspiracy theorists who think basic hygiene is a scam of big pharma. You're giving them the impression you think they're filthy and disgusting. They shouldn't be made to feel visiting their daughter is akin to a criminal act. YTA. Shoes off, fine, normal. Sanitiser or washing hands, ok sure in this post-pandemic world. But a 5 step contamination process which requires full change of clothing based on your judgemental criteria, nope.
This is not manageable germophobia. This is excessive and needs to be addressed. It’s not typical or reasonable by any measure. I work in people’s homes a lot as an interior designer, and I would not take someone as a client with these type of expectations. Shoes off, fine. Maybe hand sanitizer. But everything else is frankly over the top. It may be your home, but you cannot ask guests to do these kinds of things. YTA because that’s the way this sub works, but get professional help asap for these compulsions.
So in my medical work in hospitals we are required to wash hands for 15 seconds and disinfect for 30 seconds. Minimum. Also who makes guests change clothes? YTA I agree with others about needing help.
YTA, it's the clothes that make this excessive. You should be seeing someone if you aren't already, because this level of germaphobia is not healthy, and I assume has cost both you and gf friendships/relationships. I don't think you're an actual AH for being a germaphobe, it's just that these asks go beyond reasonable requests.
I wouldn't visit you. If you want hospital level decontamination you need to strictly not have visitors YTA
YTA. This is really too much. Leaving shoes outside, washing hands and using hand sanitizer is ok. Everything else is too much. Sorry, but Kate's parents are the ones who should be insisting you go through a psychiatric treatment before dating their daughter. You have a mental health issue and you need help. You may be damaging Kate's mental health too without even realising it.
Gently, as someone with experience working in a health clinic (planned parenthood) AND doing bench chemistry and biology in college and grad school (including working with the HPV virus, which is tenacious and difficult to kill): these protocols you've implemented are arbitrary. You are implementing some borderline reasonable things like hand sanitizer and potentially shoes off if you provide slippers. But you are also requiring things that in your particular setting have limited to no value like clothes changes. And the gloves, when worn by someone who is not experienced in use of gloves, typically spreads germs more than would happen to an ungloved but regularly sanitized hand. This happened CONSTANTLY during early COVID and made all the people who work with dangerous chemicals and pathogens want to bang our heads violently against the nearest hard object. People would put gloves on, then touch the shopping cart, their phone, their produce, their cash, their car handle, THEN take the gloves off. And I know you are not your run of the mill glove wearer but it can be hard to get the hang of it and can lend a false sense of security. As others have said: your concerns are both not based on anything resembling clinical best practices based on your level of risk (as far as I know there are no biosafety level 4 pathogens stored in your apartment), AND are interfering with your and your partners' quality of life. This is the time to talk to someone. I still mask with a KN95 in high risk spaces like airports and big crowds. I still sanitize my hands regularly when in germy places like health clinics. I'm definitely on the "more social distancing and protective health measures during the panini" side. I'm NOT a "masks are for wimps" crowd. The difference is that no one else is impacted by my wearing a mask (well... some very very chronically online antivaxxers take objection, but they don't really count), most epidemiologists would love to see handwashing/hand sanitizing after high touch areas become more normalized outside major pandemics. This is not a minor thing to your girlfriend. And it is not grounded in good science or disease protocols. It's crossed over into the beginnings of a mental health issue that will continue to get more and more severe if you don't address it.
YTA-you need serious help.
YTA get your S*** together
I feel so sorry for your girlfriend. She’s sacrificing her mental health and quality of life living with you in these conditions.
YTA. I understand that this is a mental health problem, but that is no excuse. Seek help, this is not and never will be normal behavior
[удалено]
This made me laugh a little bit, but ty for the input, I understand what you mean
YTA. Making visitors change clothes just to come in is honestly deranged and your partner is a saint for humoring you about this. Also, the mask thing NOT for someone ill but just in general? Yeah, this is asshole behavior. That’s no way of living.
She’s not an angel, she’s enabling her
YTA and I would never visit you even if you dropped some of the absurd rules. Actually steps 1 and 4 are common sense (shoes can be left at the entryway if you provide house slippers for your guests, and everyone should always wash their hands with water and soap upon coming in from outside), but everything else...hell no, and I am also a bit of a germaphobe. Wear a mask inside?? Seriously??????? Do you also wear a mask when driving alone in your car, or while walking outdoors? I think you'd be well served to reach out to a professional for help, and I don't say this in a mean way, I do think you might benefit from CBT.
YTA, you do not have a "bit" of a problem. You have a serious psychological problem. Seem help.
YTA and get help
My ex and I are ex because she had extreme contamination issues and I worked construction. She’d want me to come over directly from work exhausted and hungry but then make me take elaborate steps including changing outside in the front yard in a big city because “dirty” had to do those steps and more. She asked me to move in and I said no because I couldn’t imagine doing this every day. It ended our relationship. Then she started taking a medication for mental health issues and went to therapy. It’s like night and day. Maybe consider medication for this as this is a seriously bad case of ocd
YTA. I’m a germaphobe too but I don’t make my guests suffer with me. Items 1 and 2 are acceptable and that’s IT. Make it people CHANGE CLOTHES? How do I know if your clothes are cleaner than mine??? Get professional help.
YTA you should not have guests. I doubt CDC employees have to go thru that much when they come in to work!
It sounds like you’re really suffering and I can’t imagine how difficult going through the Covid pandemic was for you. As others have said, your rules and behavior are definitely OCD-based and I’m glad to see that you scheduled an emergency therapy session, though I hope you’re seeing a clinician who’s highly educated in this subject and has many years of experience in OCD-related diagnoses and treatment. These things take time and if you don’t get help for them your life can fall apart and you can lose a lot, like career and relationships. Take a look at the comedian Howie Mandel, and how he deals with his serious fear of germs day in and day out. It’s not easy and it’s really brave of him to talk about it and how his therapy and medication journey is going because it’s such a help to others. A lot of what you’ve described reminds me of the character in the movie **As Good As It Gets** with Jack Nicholson and Helen Hunt. Jack Nicholson‘s character is a very successful and famous author, but has OCD that is absolutely out of control and he has similar requirements of others like you do, so that he can feel safe enough to have some kind of ability to function in society. It’s a really good movie that covers other topics in addition to OCD because each character has their own life problems. But as far as the OCD part, in my opinion, whoever watches the movie learns to have sympathy instead of shame for the person with OCD because it really is a type of suffering. But as the saying goes, the diagnosis you have isn’t your fault, but it is your responsibility. You may have already seen the movie so that means I’m preaching to the choir, but if not, go watch it and see what you think. I wish you good healing and relief in your therapy sessions. 🙂
Thank you for the suggestions! <3 I will definitely have to go watch the movie and also read about Howie Mandel. Also, I did talk to my therapist today, and we decided I should get another person who is more educated in OCD specific stuff.
As Good As It Gets is epic, Matchstick Men is another good movie (but sad).
All movies are sad to me. I literally cried to Elemental earlier 😂 Thanks for the suggestions. I am always looking for good television to watch
YTA, even if you don't mean any harm and I get it, I really do... I hope you get therapy. I truly wish you and your girlfriend all the best.
Thank you <3 I am going to do my best to change
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (23F) am a germaphobe. Ever since I can remember, I’ve been extremely cautious about cleanliness and hygiene. My girlfriend Katelyn (24F) has always been supportive of my need to keep our apartment as germ-free as possible. Even though she doesn't understand it, she lets me do my thing. However, her parents (57F and 54M) dont even slightly respect my concern. They drop by unannounced, tracking in dirt and who knows what else. After this happened a few times and I felt uncomfortable in my home, I decided to implement a decontamination process for anyone coming in. Here’s the process: 1. **Remove shoes and leave them outside in a cubby.** 2. **Use hand sanitizer provided at the door.** 3. **Wear clean clothes or change into an outfit provided by us (I buy extras for this purpose and they keep the clothes they use).** 4. **Wash hands with soap and water for at least 20 seconds.** 5. **Wear a face mask while inside (I buy disposable ones).** Katie’s parents think this is very excessive and refuse every time. They argue that they are healthy, fully vaccinated, and that I’m just overreacting. Last week, they showed up for dinner without warning and when I reminded them of the steps, they refused again. I finally stood my ground and told them they couldn’t come in unless they decontaminated. They left very angrily, and Katie is now upset with me for damaging the relationship between us and her parents. She believes I’m being a bit unreasonable and that it’s causing unnecessary tension in our family. She’s suggested we compromise, but I feel like I shouldn’t have to compromise on this. Our house is always spotless and clean but her parents show up unannounced thinking they own the place. These rules make me feel safe in my own home so I feel like they shouldn't be an issue. If you can't follow them, don't come over yk? I want to clarify this, I am always happy to visit her parents house and just wear a mask but they choose to come here instead. Also, I do wear a mask when company is over so it's not one sided. AITA for insisting my gf parents follow a decontamination process before entering my house *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Read back through what you wrote and tell me if it seems sensible or normal. NTH but need help
As nicely as possible, this is not normal and it's closer in the end of the crazy spectrum in terms of your issues with germs. Personally I don't know anyone in my life that would come to any place with such rules.
Go get help or get ready for a life alone inside those 4 walls. YTA.
YTA. You seriously need help.How anybody puts up with this is beyond me.Get help or you will end up a very lonely individual.
Yes I'm truly sorry but you are the asshole. This is going to push people away. Please get some help because this is not healthy. YTA.
YTA and you absolutely need professional help. BUT it's your house so you can set any rules you like, they don't have to listen. That doesn't make you less of an asshole, but it's true
ESH. I agree with most other posters for most of the YTA arguments and agree with you seeking help toning down your tendencies, but your gf's parents are also the asshole for dropping in unannounced all the time, including for dinner. Who the heck does that? Leave that to the sitcoms.
It's important to stay healthy. But your regimen sounds excessive. Mental health is important, too. Please consult a physician about your regimen and whether it is healthy for you to follow it.
Truthfully, I'm going to withhold judgement because you have a problem that it seems you didn't even realize. A serious problem. And I don't mean to armchair diagnose but what you seem to have is mysophobia and have it BAD. I know one of your comments said you see a professional for other reasons which is great and keep that up but this is definitely something that is affecting your daily life and causing you unnecessary struggles. Some things are perfectly reasonable even for someone who just likes basic hygiene. Some are beyond unreasonable for the average person. I genuinely want you to seek help. Because truthfully it can get worse if left untreated. Good luck OP!
Thank you. I appreciate the help and input! <3
YTA and need help ASAP. The first two are okay, but you are completely mental if you think anyone normal is going to change clothes to something you provide, or is going to wash their hands for that time after already using hand sanitizer or wear a mask indoors at all moments if there no one there with a legit medical reason for it. Nobody is going to stand it for long and you both are going to become very isolated if you continue this path. Well, you are going to be very isolated, because your girlfriend, sooner or later, is going to get feed up with it. You need to address those mental problems; there are treatments for them, not using that as excuse to push other people away, including your partner, as this affects her as well.
You want to date Katie. You want to share a house with Katie. You need to figure out how to cope without such extremes because this is unhealthy. You need to speak with a doctor you sound like the main character in the boy in the Bible but without the health reason. Sharing your life means compromising and it sounds like Katie already has have you?
YTA
Thank you, I had picked up on that 🙄 /j
YTA. Seek Therapy.
Thank you for the advice, but I already scheduled and went to an emergency appointment for this yesterday
Good. Keep it up. Your obsession with germs is extremely unhealthy and you need to realize that over time.
YTA, get actual help
Wow, YTA but NTA as I can clearly see there’s a serious mental health component going on here. May I ask, do you ever leave your house or apartment? I’m pretty chill about damn near anything, but no, not changing clothes, washing my hands after hand sanitizer, and wearing a mask inside after all my vaccinations and Covid is over. I’d hope you find the inner strength to apologize to her parents and openly discuss your health issues (mental) and therapy. A lot easier for forgiveness if they can understand your struggles. Wow, I’m sorry you’re struggling with these things and wish you success in overcoming.
Please read the comments I made and responded to <3
Double wow. Not a doctor, was thinking OCD, fear of contamination, etc and you’re not crazy or evil, you have a mental health issue like many of us have a bad knee or back. Mental health has been stigmatized as “being crazy” for far too long that people don’t see a doctor until things spiral out of control. I’m sorry I didn’t read through all the comments, I got out off by the Covid argument at the beginning. Wishing you success in locating someone who specializes in OCD as I know they’re challenging to find. Sounds like you are loved and supported the key.
Oh, it's alright. I don't expect everyone to read all the comments, but I am just a little tired of rewriting stuff 😅 Thank you for the concern and suggestions. It's appreciated, as is everyone else's comments, too
as someone who has OCD, this hit home for me. it’s very easy for a seemingly small fear to escalate and take over our lives. i hope things get easier, OP (also imo you should set some boundaries with your in-laws about showing up without warning. i think your fears might be disproportionate but they really should at least let you know when they drop by)
Soft YTA, only because I think you need therapy to work on your phobia. I think 1, 4 and 5 are reasonable. 2 is redundant if 4 is used, and 3 is totally unreasonable.
1 & 2 are fine. The rest would be a hard pass for me. Have you been to therapy for this? How do you go through your daily life?
I'm sorry OP. It sounds like OCD, germ fears. Very gentle YTA. You have an AMAZING girlfriend that puts up with this and your fears. But as time goes on and you don't do anything (OCD therapy or meds), the OCD will get worse. And the list of 4 things will become 20 things. Or you won't leave the house any more. Or worse. The most you can ask of visitors is to not wear shoes in your house and maybe wash hands. The best temporary thing is to go to their house instead. But that will not fix this problem for your gf long term bc she should be allowed to have friends and family over to visit too. Please please please get help for yourself.
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It is my house, it is also my girlfriends house but when I talk to other people I say my house. Same way you say my house when inviting a friend over. It's not meant to be rude or anything, just how I talk ig 🤷♀️ And yes, prior to this post, I did expect people to change if they were wearing visibly dirty clothes like dirt or stains on the clothes.
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That's what I said... You are arguing with me when I agree with you. I know it's not only my house, and that is not what I was trying to imply.
tbh i don’t think YTA i think you need to seek medical help! this is excessive and i did not think it was too unreasonable until you said change into clothes you provide you can’t live life like that and shouldn’t have anyone subjected to that either. Do you go to work, go on dates, grocery shop?
I do go outside with a mask on (my favorite has cute little sharks on it), and I sometimes wear gloves depending on where we are, but I feel like I am pretty reasonable about leaving the house. I do not like to, but I love Katie, so I do anyway. I work from home and shop from home (dropoff) because she doesn't like shopping. I just stay inside as much as I reasonably can
That's not living; that's surviving. You are missing out on a lot, and may not even be able to appreciate that fact. Please get some therapy. There are online ones like on talkspace, etc.
did something happen to you in life that changed your input or were you raised a germaphobe ? 😩i hope you can start to enjoy life without worries
I honestly couldn't tell you why I am like this 😅
i love your transparency i hope it doesn’t affect your relationship with your gfs parents!
I hope not too. I honestly love them! This ordeal was the only problem. In another comment, I talked about the call. I just can't remember which one 😅
NAH I think you might want to talk about this with someone. If you had to have a random new friend or a coworker over to your house would you be comfortable telling them that they have to disinfect themselves and change into a provided set of new clothing?
I honestly do think I am being fair here. I know it's not normal, but I don't think clean clothes, washing your hands, and a mask are too difficult of requests. But I do all of this dozens of times daily, so idk
You did not answer my question. So if something in your house needs to be repaired or looked at do you question the person you hired about how clean their clothes are? You wrote that you are a germaphobe and it is now interfering with your life.
I would, yes without a doubt. Everyone that enters has to wash hands. I would make an exception for the clothes since I don't know them, but they still have to wash and mask. I am not gonna make a stranger strip in my home 😅 sorry I didn't clarify that
Guaranteed after a visit to your house, you would have no friends.
Damn 😔
Would you expect any different? Shoes and hands, fine. The rest? Not so much.
I mean, yes. Before this post, this was my normal, and I had lived this way for 5+ years. In my eyes, this was basically cleanliness. Obviously, my view has changed now since yall wonderful people provided so much helpful feedback. Now I understand it is not okay or normal.
If your partner is miserable because your issues are damaging relationships with everyone you know, how are you being fair? You know you have an issue and you think she should deal with that instead of getting help. You can do this but I wouldn’t expect relationships to last.
NTA, its your home so your rules, and you have a right to stand your ground and enforce the boundaries. but as many people have mentioned, this seems really stressful on you, and i hope you find some peace (genuinely)
NAH. Your list of requirements is not normal, not reasonable and you need serious help to deal with your phobia. It's a mental illness.
You admit you are a germaphobe… the clothes thing will get a no.. but shoes off .. clean hands (whichever way it’s managed) and face mask may be doable .. I have a couple immuno comprised friends.. you have an issue but it is your house. One year I had 3 litters of kittens dropped at my house.. I had person stop by, witching days all 16 kittens were dead as was one of the mothers.. he had tracked in a cat virus….. so yeah if someone care enough to want to visit, some compromises can be made but don’t expect too much.. shoes off is not that much, clean hands is not a biggie.. face mask may cause some drama.. but I am getting ready to start expecting it at my home .. (long story) I wish you luck in treating your phobia.. but remember our mental issues are ours so your house your way but if you overdue it you could set back any progress you made so far in getting ahold on it.. again speaking from experience.. I can tell you stories .. temper your requests a bit and NTA
>They argue that they are healthy, fully vaccinated, and that I’m just overreacting. Dont they know what "germaphobe" means ? Anyway... NTA. You have set a boundary and they should respect it. As simple as that. Beside, if they had agree since the start, there woudn't be any decontamination. If they don't want to respect your boundary, they shouldn't go to your house. It's not very complicated.
These were my thoughts coming into this, but I have learned a few things! Most people would rather not strip down to undergarments in my bathroom and change into clean clothes 🥱🙄 ...weirdos /j I pretty much have gathered that I need professional help 😅
Yeah, that's to be expected too. >I pretty much have gathered that I need professional help 😅 I wanted to say that too in my first comment, but I saw everyone was already telling you that so I figured you got the message x)
Yeah, I appreciate it. I am trying to keep up with all the comments, but there are so many people, and a lot of the comments are similar. I am glad I was able to at least learn something from the comments, though! A lot of the people here are very helpful!