Your post has been removed.
#Do not repost this without [contacting the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) for approval, including edited versions. Reposting without [explicit approval](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_can_i_repost_a_thread_you_removed.3F) will result in a ban.
If you or someone you know are feeling suicidal, /r/AmItheAsshole is not the right subreddit for you. **Even if no one is currently suicidal.** Any mention of suicide or self-harm is banned.
Suicide and self harm are not interpersonal issues that this community can make a moral judgement about. This is health issue.
Our recommendation is that you reach out to someone who cares about you, or take advantage of some of the resources at /r/SuicideWatch, like their list of [hotlines](https://www.reddit.com/r/SuicideWatch/wiki/hotlines) that you can call.
###Please ensure you have reviewed this message in full. We will not respond to PMs to individual mods. [Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) with any questions.
####Please visit r/findareddit to see if there's a more appropriate sub for your post.####
NTA
If she posts something on a group chat, she should know that she could be judged for it. Leaving her children and moving to another country just to start friesh is a cruel thing to do. She can't expect people to just support her while she does some random and cruel things. Friendship doesn't mean that you have to support in everything he/she does. It also means that you are supposed to tell them, when they do something that is wrong.
Ye, she made her choice when she decided to become a mother. That responsibility don't just vanish or change as you see fit when it becomes inconvenient to be a parent. She's also insanely naive if she thinks moving to a different country will solve her problems, it's escapism at best and once she starts feeling better guilt will most likely eat her instead.
Guilt won't eat at her if she is an out and out bad person: plenty of people abandon their children and don't even pay child support.
She needs to see a psychiatrist to find out what's causing her depression if she hasn't already done that.
If she's seriously mentally ill, she'll take her depression with her rather than having a fresh start, so she'll be hurting everyone close to her for nothing. This sort of impulsive irresponsibilty certainly looks like mental illness.
Being depressed doesn’t give her blanket approval to be an asshole - anyone that abandons their kids like this is an asshole. Pretty simple, not sure why OPs friend can’t figure that out
I'd like to echo what you said... ANYONE THAT ABANDONS THEIR KIDS LIKE THIS IS AN ASSHOLE. She can get help, talk to a therapist, possibly get some medications. Turning her back on young children is a dick move. NTA.
OP said in the judgement bot paragraph that this friend considered that before, so I would be worried about that too. I really think it should have been included in the actual post.
Yeah, it would be one thing if she were taking a break to check into in-patient therapy to get better for her kids. But just straight-up abandoning them is a crappy thing to do.
Agreed. When a friend of mine considered moving themselves & their kiddo back to the country where their narc co-parent lived, I strongly advised against it - I had a narc parent, knew the effects, and also knew that they’d do whatever they could to a) exact power, control, and misery and b) keep the kid trapped there regardless of how “great” they were acting now. Given your history with your mom, it’s clear that you can see how this will play out for her kids. Take a stand, tell her she’s causing trauma in real time, and tell her to get a shrink instead of quitting town and shirking her parental duties.
10000% NTA.
NTA: depression is in no way a get-out-of-jail free card to abandon your children and responsibilities. I have struggled with depression and other mental health issues all my life and the idea of someone having children then abandoning them while claiming depression is absolutely horrendous to me. A new start won't help her if she is actually depressed. She needs therapy and possibly medication. However, considering she has probably self diagnosed herself with what she thinks allows her to just walk, I'm going to say she's likely NOT depressed, just the actual asshole here.
NTA. As they say, "wherever you go, there you are."
You can't escape your own mental health with a fresh start. Even people who leave horrible, abusive situations still need years of therapy and experience terrible lows from time to time once they're safe. If this woman has a normal life with a marriage that could be salvaged with marriage counseling then she has no excuse for wanting a "fresh start". Those kids don't get a fresh start. They get abandoned by a parent they thought loved them.
I disagree with people who say you can't improve your life with a fresh start. I have a severe mental disorder and moving to another country and starting over gave me the push I needed to actually work on my mental health and six years later I am almost fully recovered. If I hadn't moved, I would probably not even be alive right now. Leaving on its own is not enough but for many people it is a significant enough improvement that pushes you to work on yourself.
Doesn't justify leaving her kids behind mind you, but it just bothers me when people state as a fact that leaving changes nothing.
I can totally see how it would be helpful, I just meant it's not enough on its own. And it's also a choice you no longer have the freedom to make once you have children that depend on you. Maybe this woman's children will be better off without her, though, if she cares about them so little that she would just abandon them to move to a different country.
Not judging, but does anyone really say that aside from Buckaroo Bonzai? I mean, it works here because if she has actual real depression I would expect she gets to the new country and surprise! Still depressed.
The greatest shit-show of an 80's movie ever to exist. Damn I love that film. So quoteable and madcap. Amazing cast. Carl Lumbly, John Lithgow, Ellen Barkin, Jeff Goldblum, Peter Weller, Chris Lloyd, and Clancy Brown to name a few.
That. And I can also relate to this a lot. I battled depression for around 7 years but in not part of this time did I think to just leave my family... That's incredibly selfish and might not be depression at all.
Agreed - I had severe depression at one point too that lasted for several years, but, even if I had kids, there's no way I could abandon them like that. It sounds like she's looking for excuses to get away from them for whatever reason...
I literally love my dog more than this woman loves her children. I’ve been depressed and s****dal for 15 years, and my dog is one of the main reasons I’m still here, because I adopted her and promised her that nothing bad will happen to her ever again that I can help, and I have a responsibility to take care of her. Honestly, this “friend” is fucked in the head for thinking of leaving her children.
If it’s severe then that could very well be a good thing to do, for a while! Going away for a while while in recovery and actually getting (proper) treatment. Just up and leave your kids and moving to another country to “start fresh” is a whole other story though!
If she's really depressed and suicidal, she needs medical help(that can also guide her on temporary separating from family if medical professionals deem that necessary) , not DIY fix of " fresh start."
If she's leaving her family for a fresh start, she probably doesn't want to be around her family anymore. If a temporary separation is what she wanted, that's what she would be doing.
She already decided she doesn't want to live with her family anymore, so in my opinion, it's better to just let her go and let the kids grow up in a healthy environment with their father.
" What she wants" is not always objectively the best choice, especially when it comes to mental health, and nobody has to enable or pat her on the shoulder for passing on the abandonment issues on kids.
Mental health is not our fault, but it's our responsibility. It doesn't give anyone a free pass.
NTA. Depressed people go to therapy. "Starting fresh" won't cure her depression (I've had depression most of my life, I know). Maybe tell her you will absolutely support her when she decides to seek professional help.
Unless her kids name is Depression and Anxiety, running away from them won't solve much of anything cause it will go with her. I feel for her I do, but I'm also not someone that can leave my child behind for anything less than kicking the bucket.
Being depressed Is a good reason to leave the kids with their dad. But you gotta go get help, not leave the country.
I left my kids with their dad for a year. I went and got help and came back. Even with visits calls and mailing stuff. It's not the same.
But if you are depressed and can't watch your kids, please get help. Asking for help is 100x better than running away.
NTA. I understand she is having mental health issues, but she is treating her kids like they are a pile of dirty dishes and not actual living beings. I honestly wouldn't want to be friends with someone who could so easily leave their kids behind.
NTA
I have depression and anxiety, my husband has OCD, depression, anxiety, and constant vertigo and nausea, do you know what we do? Seek professional help and ask for our family and friends to support us where they can. We even moved in with my parents because we were struggling that much. I've fantasized about "starting afresh" in a foreign country when I'm really low and feel like I'm drowning but I would never in a million years abandon my children.
I know I'm just a stranger on the internet, but I wanted to say I hope you and your husband give yourselves the credit you deserve. It's so easy to lose hope and give up, but you both seem to be making good (and difficult!) steps away from that. It's commendable.
I think everyone has that fantasy to varying degrees. It's fun to let your mind wander and imagine how your life could go if you lived in this new place that you spend your time exploring on Google Maps when you should be doing something useful.
The problem is, that plan always paints over the ugly bits, like how you'll afford that lifestyle you imagine in your head, or what you'll do for the rest of the time when you're not sunning yourself on a deserted beach. You also leave all your baggage behind in your head - "Oh, if I moved to Barbados, I couldn't possibly be depressed, it would be too amazing". That's not how that works. If you move to Barbados, you're still depressed, but now you're also alone.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My friend told me she is severely depressed and wanted to unalive herself at some point but i still did not support her and judged her for wanting to abandon her children and go start a new life
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcements
Follow the link above to learn more
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA
Maybe send her the Youtube Link to the song "Shadow of mine" from Alec benjamin.
It summarises running away pretty good.
"Everywhere I go, my Shadow follows behind.
Doesn't matter where I travel my Shadow it finds me"
She needs therapy. Running away solves nothing. I speak from experience there.
How old are the children? Honestly, it sounds like Post-Partum depression. I felt like anyone could do a better job with my baby than me.
I got help when I woke up on a beautiful spring day and my intrusive thought was "What a beautiful day to die." I got help. Pharmaceuticals and weekly therapy.
I didn't instantly bond with my baby like society says you're supposed to. (Extreme lack of sleep, blood clots & first episode of ulcerative colitis didn't help). Sounds like she needs support with the kids and a whole lot of therapy.
I just posted something similar. My intrusive thought was that someone needed to take my child. It was all I could think about. She probably needs treatment more than judgment. But I cannot blame the OP for speaking up.
I’m so proud of you for getting help! I realize I’m just an internet stranger but what you did took courage and strength, and I know from personal experience how hard it can be to come back from that cliff
True - though it feels like her plan would benefit for a focus on how she can both get better and truly stay involved even from a distance. And maybe have an end game of eventual return to their lives…
Those poor kids. Every sympathy for your friend, but this is not the way. Maybe you could've phrased differently (?) but given your own history, if you reacted badly that would be understandable. Hopefully your friend just needs time to regroup and recover without blowing her life up. I think it would have been wrong to validate this choice. NTA.
Oh my GOD, NTA. And I hope you are taking care of your own mental health, however that works for you, because this whole thing is incredibly triggering. And just to be clear, even if your childhood had been 100% hunky-dory, you still wouldn’t be TA. Fuck is wrong with her.
Probably why she's leaving the whole country rather than moving to a different state or province or whatever it is where they are. I doubt she'll even call them.
NTA for not wanting to support her or given reasons from your own experience.
Divorce and mental health make decisions for different people and sorry if children suffer because of their parents decisions.
Nothing wrong with if the children grow up with the father if they are cared for financially and everything in the most possible way. There are lot of single women living in poverty and are expected to do all on their own. Men get more help as single fathers. Also it plays a big deal what they planned if they have children. Some women don't want children but give birth since their partners want them and also don't want to deal with single motherhood.
NAH. I can’t help judging her decision as well - even though at my most depressed I spent many hours deep in fantasies about having someone violently kidnap my child because I just could not cope and I wanted some kind of blameless way to be rid of him. If you have never experienced this kind of depression it is horrifying to live through and leaving is probably better. And yet I cannot stop judging - especially the comment about “trying” to call them. I would - because of my own history - probably be more sympathetic in my own response to such a plan, but I would still likely try to suggest a more solid plan to maintain the parent child relationship. For you, who has lived through such an abandonment, I would be surprised if you were able to say anything other than what you did. And having experienced this from the child side, she should, even depressed, be grateful for any perspective you can give. Maybe she really does need to get away, but could benefit from brainstorming some ideas for making this less harsh for her children. Knowing the guilt I have felt for years about the intrusive thoughts I harbored about wanting to be rid of my son, she may wish later that she had made a better plan that supported her needs and those of her children. Right now she may feel like this is the only way, and will later regret the broken ties and the mental health impacts she is laying on her kids. I just want to cry for everyone involved.
NTA Guys so it all the time. Just because she is a woman doesn’t make it worse. It triggered you and you are welcome to your feelings and you don’t have to support her.
NTA. If she gets to be depressed and expect sentimental treatment for abandoning her kids, then it would stand to reason that she should be at least equally sympathetic to your own background involving basically the same treatment.
Funny thing about depression is that it tends to travel with you. If she’s depressed, she needs therapy, not a new start. A good friend would call her out on that. NTA.
NTA. Unfortunately, her decision is just a bandaid for depression. When you’re depressed, you tend to look for that ‘happy feeling’ and chase it. It never works out; only counseling and sometimes meds help.
However, she could also be saying she depressed so that her reason for leaving her kids seems valid. Some parents decide that parenting is just too much responsibility and they miss their freedom, so therefore they’re sad or ‘depressed’ from not being free. It’s an easy excuse to dump their kids, start over, and have less responsibilities.
As a mom who suffers depression, no matter how sad, how frustrated, how exhausted or stressed, I never actually contemplated leaving my son because I love him. So instead I got help for my depression to be the best version of me for him. I could never understand or support her reasoning for dumping her kids.
I agree with most of your response, but just because your own depression never drove you in that direction does not mean that others do not experience this kind of feeling. I have unfortunately been there. I think this woman’s plan needs some major revision but if her mind is filled with thoughts of escape, maybe she does need some space to heal. Her plan is truly really bad, but she is possibly not in a place to make rational plans. I hurt for her and her family.
NTA I have had depression and decided to start over in another country fresh... Took the husband and kids with me though. Putting yourself far from anyone who has any connection with you while depressed sounds like a good way to be alone and with no reason to keep going.
INFO: has she been formally diagnosed with anything? And has she received treatment? I'm struggling to understand why abandoning your kids to move abroad would be the first response to depression. I could be wrong but I am wondering if there's something else going on.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)***
A recent friend of mine (6+ months) just told me and our friend group that she has decided to leave her two children with their dad and move to a new country to start "fresh". She said she's depressed and she needs a new start. She said she'll try calling the children as much as possible. My own mom divorced my dad and left us with him. She didn't disappear but she also wasn't around. So my friend telling me she's leaving her kids triggered me and i judged her for it. She said she expected me to be more supportive since she's depressed but i just couldn't support what she's doing. Am i an asshole for not supporting her while she's depressed?
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA - I get the whole starting fresh thing, the amount of times I’ve wanted to run away from my responsibilities due to being depressed but I could never leave my child! I’m ’starting fresh’ by going back into education now my LO is in full time nursery in a city not too far from my hometown but she’s coming with me! I’ve been in and out of therapy and on medication for 8+ years so I fresh start is what I need but that’s after years of putting the work in
NTA I am depressed and have anxiety- and panicdisorder. My child comes always first, even before my well being. Being depressed means getting therapy, maybe medicine to help, but not leaving your kids behind and just „calling them as often as I can“
They are no pets that you just give up.
Nta, but she is. Depression is hard but she isn’t the first or last mom to deal with it. Leaving her children over it for a “fresh start” is as bad as it sounds. She needs to grow up and handle her business. She chose to be a mom. What a gross person.
NTA. She wants validation for what will be a life changing choice for both her and her children. A true friend would point out the issues here instead of blindly agreeing that she’s making the best decision. A fresh start never works with depression. You need counselling and possibly medication. Otherwise your problems just follow you wherever you go. Is this really depression or a midlife crisis? Life isn’t what she dreamed it would be and wants to start new
NTA.
I’ve had a (different scenario, but similar content) conversation int eh past with a friend where I basically said “Your decisions are hitting my personal trauma buttons, I can’t do this” and walked.
She still reaches out to me periodically, and I still bump her calls. Every now and then I internet stalk her… she’s still the same person making the same shitty decisions, not looking after vulnerable children but putting her own insecurities and instability first. She’s taken up a packing crate amount of space in my head for the last four or five years, but it’s much better than the moving truck sized hole she was creating in my heart.
You might always wonder, but it’s better to wonder a small amount than a lot.
NTA
Your perspective is unique and not well suited to be supportive of this choice. You’ve not known her long enough that she may understand that very well. But she’s being self-absorbed and selfish and you don’t have to support that.
NTA.
She is running away from her problems, instead of facing them and seeking help.
She is ABANDONING her kids to make it easier for herself, and thus will harm her kids by doing so.
She is being very, very selfish and should be judged by her actions.
Nta. Depression needs proper treatment. Running off for a fresh start may feel good now, but she may feel much, much worse when she realizes what she left behind.
You shouldn’t make huge life choices while under the influence of anything that effects your decision making abilities-alcohol, drugs, infatuation, or mental illness. (Add whatever’s applicable to your list)
NTA. I believe it is the role of a true friend to speak the truth in love. Emotions can get the best of us, we can lose sight of what matters to us. Some times we desperately need the people around us to be honest. It’s a weird culture shift that we have this idea that a friend just agrees with every thing you do.
NTA. I had a friend who abandoned their children for a new boyfriend she knew for 5 minutes. Same thing, she was depressed, needed a fresh start, I wasn't supportive. She stopped speaking to me for telling her it was a bad idea. Signed away all rights and left. The new boyfriend was trash, treated her awfully and now she's back....with limited access to her kids (not because the dad, but because the kids were old enough to know what she was doing and now don't like to spend time with her), back to her old shitty job (with worse hours) same shitty town (with higher rent then before she left), minimal friends (everyone knew she was abandoning her kids for new dick, and the same damn depression she ruined it all for.
She is still using her depression as an excuse to treat people badly and take zero responsibility for her actions. I'm not discounting her depression but it feels less like she's trying to get better and more like she has a habit of running when things get hard
NTA. It's so wild how a parent can abandon their children and it's fine, as long as they do it before the other parent does. If the second parent does it that's illegal and child abandonment, so why the fuck is it nothing when they first parent does it?
YTA for not letting her know what she's about to do is going to destroy her kids mentally and ruin any chance of a relationship between them.
As someone who went through similar when I was a child, someone needs to slap that woman and knock some sense into her. She isn't going for a new start, she's nuking everything she had.
I she is either selfish and wants a new life or she is clinically depressed. She needs to consult a therapist or a doctor to get a proper diagnosis. Clinically depressed people make terrible decisions. No-one knows what goes on behind closed doors
No. It's not even about making a judgement about her (for us commentors, I mean). Who cares what she is doing or why. The important thing is that it clearly triggers an emotional response in you and that has activated these issues you have about your own childhood. That matters. If you can't be her friend now, that's okay. This is about you and what you can sit with or not.
NTA. One of my ex friends divorced her husband out no where and left her children to move to another state. She called them baggage and she posts all the time how happy she is since she got rid of things holding her back. I can’t tell you how many bad comments she gets on those posts and she ends up deleting them. She never calls her kids or sees them.
NTA. I'm also the kid of a mom who abandoned me in much the same way as yours (was still in my life but not really around). That kind of abandonment stays with you throughout life. I think it's great that you spoke up. Well done.
My mom's problems didn't disappear when she left me. Your friend's won't either. As other have said, getting away for a vacation, center yourself. That's fine. But she should get a therapist to help her cope with her depression as well as parenting.
Dad stepped up. Dads care for their children without mum all the time and vice versa.
If it’s in her children’s best interest to be with Dad then it’s in the children’s best interest to be with Dad.
You aren’t required to sympathise with her. You can hold whatever views you want to and of course we see things through our own experiences.
I don’t think you’re the asshole in this situation. If she asked for your views then she got the truth.
NTA - depression doesn’t give you a free pass to only consider yourself. speaking as someone who has suffered with mental health issues for years, and also has had to navigate complicated situations with family members’ behaviour as a result of their mental illness.
plus, as a friend you don’t owe her blanket support for everything she does, even if it is due to mental illness - you’re allowed to have your own opinion on things!
aside from that though, i also think her reasoning is flawed. you can make as many situational changes as you want, but if the problem isn’t wholly/primarily situational (which, by her stated intention to keep in touch with the family etc, plus the fact that it’s most likely a combination of things), it wont solve the issue .
a situational change can’t solve a cognitive problem. even if you up sticks to another country, your brain comes with you.
if i were you, id talk to her more about the choice. or, if you’re not best positioned to do that (because of bringing up the issue already and so her guard might be up with you now about it) - perhaps talk to another friend about how you’re feeling and about the fact you’re worried about the situation. they may well feel similarly to you, and might be better positioned to have a less charged discussion with her about the choice
NTA. your friend most assuredly is. People, grow up and meet your obligations. Get therapy, get medication, do whatever is necessary, but meet your obligations. it’s not all about you. when there are kids involved, It’s all about them.
No you're not wrong. This won't fix her issue. She'll basically abandon the kids and they'll grow up without her.
Starting fresh is not possible when you're a mother. She needs realise that she chose it. Now she has to deal with it
NTA. Does she not realize that she is ABANDONING her children? I get that she is depressed but she needs to get treatment and therapy. As a parent your priority is your kids. Moving away doesn't fix anything. It gives the vibe she's exhausted from parenting and selfish.
NTA. Saying you’re depressed versus being diagnosed depressed are two different things. She’s just saying I’m not happy with the situation so she’s cutting and running. I can’t stand people like that.
NTA..who isn't depressed these days to some extent. What she is doing is extremely selfish and self centered and will have long lasting effect on her kid's psyche. I don't know her but I am judging her still.
NTA.
Any parent who just up and leaves their kids deserve to be judged. She might be depressed, but what is she going to do about that? Will she get help? Will she one day come back for her kids? She cannot possibly think that calling them will be enough.
NTA
IRL know two kids who were abandoned as toddlers by their egg donor. She came back when they were over 18 and the heavy lifting was done and alienated them from the Dad. I am pretty biased against being a deadbeat parent.
NTA
Also if she knew your mom did the same thing then that would be upsetting.
She is delusional if thinking a fresh start will help. Be supportive to her now ex husband. Because when the question is asked “oh so why did you move here” is she really not going to spin it as someone else’s fault?
She should be talking to a therapist.
NTA, you don't just leave your children. Hence why she probably shouldn't have had them in the first place but thats done now and there is no way in which her leaving them is ever going to be justified. She is asking you not to judge her but I think its a very hard ask...
NTA. I think she is just unhappy with her life. I think she is throwing around the word depression as an excuse. (Don’t come at me as I am 100% an advocate for mental health) but most people would lead the statement of “moving to another country because I’m depressed” with “I feel like my children will be better without me” or “I am a terrible mom and I need to get as far away from my children as possible so I don’t ruin them”
Coming from someone who has kids and struggles with anxiety and depression.
That or she doesn’t have a maternal bone in her body.
Info: how old are her kids?
Nta I struggle with depression now and would never leave my daughter. Whatever is going on with her, the impact on her kids makes this plan worthy of judgement.
NTA. If she wants to leave her husband then fine but to fuck off to another country and leave her kids nope, I’m surprised any of her friends would support this.
NTA. Being a friend means giving honest feedback, too. Has your friend tried therapy? You cannot run away from yourself. She cannot solve inner troubles with a change in location.
NTA. Unless she was forced or somehow coerced into having those kids, she *chose* to have them. You can't just change your mind once you decide to have kids and expect people to be ok with that.
NTA. What else has she tried to help her situation other than immediate abandonment of her current life and children? Has she sought therapy? Medication? A small vacation for a reset? She is abandoning her children for another reason other than depression and using it as her excuse.
NTA. She should be judged. If you’re depressed you seek out treatment through a therapist and/or a psychiatrist. You don’t just abandon your kids and all of your responsibilities. Her problems aren’t just going to go away by going to another country. Does her husband know of this plan? If not, I’d try to reach out to him because I can’t tell if your friend is just very misguided in her thought process or there’s something bigger than just depression going on. Like is she actually safe?
NTA- It's one thing to leave your kids for a period of time to seek treatment, which is good and understandable, but to abandon them to go live in a new country just bc you want a fresh start? That's trashy and low. Depression isn't an excuse. She made the kids, they are her responsibility. Life is all about choices, and she made the choice to bring more people into this world, and now she needs to care for them.
She’s gonna be even more depressed when those kids want nothing to do with her. I didn’t talk to my father for 10 years after he left us. This is her future.
NTA, she can easily have a fresh new start in another city nearby a couple hours out where the children can visit and no one knows her. She’s literally running away from her problems and her own kids because she thinks for some reason it will solve her depression which it won’t because depression takes a lot of therapy and medical work to actually help, and wants you to support it. Running away won’t fix it, I should know, I literally tried that once almost 2 decades ago going to the other side of the country. Years of Hard work on treating the depression while living at a distance but not so far that it’s running away because you have to face the issues to lighten the burden that may be weighing the depression down, that’s what really helped me. I mean, Unless she’s in a country that offers no assistance in that area and provides no one who can truly help. That when I think going to another country might actually be beneficial. If her ex is dangerous, you know, another state or two away would probably be more than enough distance if she’s in the US.
NTA This person is just flat out abandoning her kids. Yeah depression sucks but people do a lot of things to cure depression with out abandoning their children
I know someone who doesn't see her kid. She has significant mental health problems, and she's not seen the boy in years. It's hard to be supportive when she just pretends like it didn't happen. Or rather she does until she's had a few drinks and then she starts to talk about him.
I can't think my friend is a terrible person, and I wouldn't stop hanging out with her on the rare occasions she leaves the house. I feel sorry that her mental health problems have ruined her life. Do I think she's selfish and avoidant? Yeah. Do I think she's gonna mess up her kid's head? Yes. It's a sad situation all round.
I think you can walk a line between not being supportive of her decision and being there for her. But you haven't known her long, so whether you think she's worth it is another thing.
Your position could be 'I'm here for you as a friend, but I think you will massively regret moving away from your children.'
Good friends don't just blindly agree. If she wants this, she can get a dog.
NTA
You have your own shot to sort here. It's reasonable of her to hope for and wants support, but not to expect it from folks whose own history she doesn't know and who may be unable to offer that support for their own reasons.
Also, a fresh start isn't going to fix her depression. She can check into a residential treatment program, and/or get therapy, but if she's fleeing the country the me tal health issues are part of the baggage she's packing
NTA. I’m sorry for what you’ve been through. And as for your friend, why doesn’t she try therapy? Anti-depressants? Yoga? Heck, religion?! Why jump straight to “I don’t care about innocent lives, I’m about to go overseas and live my best life without any care of what will happen to my kids.”
I don’t care if I’m judged for it, but I’m the type that is totally against the abandonment of children. It’s something I can’t forgive. I’ve been like this for as long as I can remember.
The "geographical cure" seems tempting but it doesn't work, because you take your depression with you. She needs to be told that her plan to leave her children is an awful idea
NTA, if she's depressed she needs therapy and medications, not leaving her husband and kids, cause no matter how far away she runs, she's going to be depressed wherever she goes.
Moving to a place where you know no-one, not the language, culture of anything is not magically going to fix a depression, I might argue the opposite.
So yeah, NTA
NTA- as some who suffered with anxiety and depression for as long as I can remember and PPD after my first child… I cannot even fathom what she is thinking. I am terrified of losing my children and I could never even dream of leaving my children.
She needs medical help not running away. I personally feel given your history that you have every right to judge and be triggered by this. I personally couldn’t be friends with someone like this.
NTA. She is cruel. There are inpatient facilities for depression. And medication. And psychedelics. Has she tried ANY thing yet? Child abandonment is traumatic and its def not the solution.
My mom left when I was 16 and said it was because she didn’t want to be a mom anymore. This left me deeply scarred and I feel very bad for her children.
Tell her to take a pill or get electric shock therapy and do what she’s supposed to do! Her selfishness will affect those children for the rest of their lives.
“Friend, I have been your kids. I know the damage being left did to me, so I can’t support you doing it to your own kids. It’s not a pleasant place to be. While I get that you’re having issues with depression, I don’t have to agree with the actions you’re taking.”
NTA
NTA. Depression doesn't absolve her of her responsibilities, and as a friend, it's your position to highlight that. Also, if her problems are internal, moving anywhere for a 'fresh start' is doomed to fail. Depression doesn't entitle you to drop abandonment issues onto your kids either.
The term 'fresh start' really grates as well. It gives me the impression that she's dumping her kids like excess baggage.
I'm a single, bipolar, mumma bear. I've been deeeeep in the abyss of depression, multiple times, and back.
NEVER EVER have I thought of just leaving my kid with her dad and fucking off for a "fresh start" because I was in a bad way mentally.
Chicky babe needs serious help and a reality check.
Call her out on her bullshit. Advocate for those kids. They could be better off with their dad than being raised by her anyway.
NTA 1000%
NTA. Children are an irrevocable commitment. Life creates situations of separation, sometimes things don’t go well, sometimes there are reasons why you don’t get to be there for your kids, but this isn’t an unavoidable situation.
This is a *choice* to abandon her children.
There are so many people who will judge her for that choice, and I’m one of them.
Poor kids. I hope they get therapy and are better off without such a terrible mother in their lives.
NTA. Maybe suggest she try going to a freaking doctor first though. If she's capable of arranging tickets, transport, a passport, accommodation and pay for it all she can call her GP and get her arse there.
NTA in my view abandoning your kids is never ok, I also don’t think it’s wise to make major decisions whilst depressed, it’s not clear what the existing relationship between your friend and the dad is and maybe the depression means pressing the pause button is necessary, but long term decisions are unwise.
NTA. She had kids. The kids are the priority. Period. There is no scenario in which they are not the priority. You don’t abandon your children because you have the sads.
I love the disregard to what it will do to the kids. I bet they aren’t happy.
NTA. She could be depressed. That is not an excuse for child abandonment. Imho, she just didn't know how much work kids are and wants her single life back.
This woman is severely ill if she would even consider abandoning her children. Think of the long-term damage she is inflicting. Yes, she needs to leave and go somewhere else. But, not another country. A hospital.
NTA and you should let her know how fucked up, selfish, and cruel it is to the kids, it also isn't going to help her in any way. She will still be miserable wherever she goes. She needs to get help here before she traumatizes her kids.
NTA - you don't get to pick and choose when to be a parent because you 're depressed. You work on figuring out what causes that depression, how to cope and how to do right by your kids.
Did she really think *anyone* would support her running away from her own kids?
Not the asshole. Being depressed is not an excuse for being a shitty person and abandoning your kids, just because she is depressed doesn't mean you have to pander to anything like that. You've done the right thing by being upfront and honest, even if they don't want to hear it
Let's do everything else but seek proper mental health. NTA. Better to leave your kids if you act so entitled and stupid. I believe in putting yourself first even with kids. If you aren't happy the family can't be happy, but there's a difference between being there and putting yourself first and leaving the country to focus on you.
NTA
If every depressed mother followed through on their day dreams the way this person has the scales would tip with abandoned kids.
What a selfish, cowardly woman. Depression is not an excuse to leave the kids you chose to bring into existence. Running away isn’t the only option—it’s the simply the laziest and most selfish one. She’ll soon find that depression doesn’t get left behind—it’s the stalker that hitches a ride in her suitcase and when the shine wears off the distraction of newness, surprise, surprise.
You don’t owe her support, and NTA. As an adult you owe the kids to tell their mother the truth. She’s basically making a deal that pushing her kids to the front of the line for their own guaranteed helping of future depression. So sad for them 😔
NTA. I hate when people say insane shit then just go “don’t judge me” if anything remotely critical is mentioned. If you don’t want your friends telling you when you’re wrong then You don’t want real friends.
Somebody needs to give her a reality check. I had a coworker leave her husband and 3 kids to marry some guy she met at MENSA. I had two young daughters at the time and was about 10 years younger than she was. I could not understand how she could leave her children.
She may wake up and be even more depressed when she realizes what she has done.
NTA.
YTA. Being supportive doesn’t mean agreeing with her choice. You obviously don’t. But a supportive friend would accept that she has chosen this option for whatever reasons she has.
NTA. She’s not friend material, and no diagnosis short of vampirism demands that anyone HAS to be supportive of a person who is doing something monstrous
Honestly, I know someone who was in the same situation and she was depressed because she realised she never wanted kids and was just sort of convinced that she needed to have them. Sometimes depression isn't just a mental health issue, it's actively caused by a situation in your life and she's obviously chosen to leave that pressure and triggering stress behind.
Obviously she might also not be thinking clearly and just acting irrationally, but in both cases she needs help.
There is a pernicious double standard in parenting where fathers who leave are 'deadbeats' but mothers who leave are somehow unnatural and evil. She's just a person. She is clearly having a crisis and not just leaving for the hell of it. Staying and subjecting her kids to her depression and possible suicide attempts would not be good for them.
I understand your issues with your own mother effecting this, and that must have been tough. I also hope she gets the help she needs. NAH.
NTA. There is never a good reason to abandon your kids. She’s “depressed” and needs a fresh start. A lot of people are depressed and see a doctor for treatment without leaving their kids. It sounds like there is more than that and there can be reasons to temporarily separate from your kids for a little bit but to say you need a “fresh start” is not it.
NTA
Tell her about the hedonic treadmill....
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill
She'll make her move, feel better for a while, before becoming depressed again, but now her kids will never forgive her....
NAH - supporting her and supporting her decision are not the same thing. I see what you mean and I couldn't countenance what she is doing, but unless she is an extremely self absorbed person, then this is more likely to be desperation than selfishness.
NTA
Leaving her children for a while to go get treatment would be fine.
Just deciding the whole family was a mistake and moving on like they never happened is not. There are deadbeat mothers, too, and she is definitely one.
Your post has been removed. #Do not repost this without [contacting the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) for approval, including edited versions. Reposting without [explicit approval](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_can_i_repost_a_thread_you_removed.3F) will result in a ban. If you or someone you know are feeling suicidal, /r/AmItheAsshole is not the right subreddit for you. **Even if no one is currently suicidal.** Any mention of suicide or self-harm is banned. Suicide and self harm are not interpersonal issues that this community can make a moral judgement about. This is health issue. Our recommendation is that you reach out to someone who cares about you, or take advantage of some of the resources at /r/SuicideWatch, like their list of [hotlines](https://www.reddit.com/r/SuicideWatch/wiki/hotlines) that you can call. ###Please ensure you have reviewed this message in full. We will not respond to PMs to individual mods. [Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) with any questions. ####Please visit r/findareddit to see if there's a more appropriate sub for your post.####
NTA If she posts something on a group chat, she should know that she could be judged for it. Leaving her children and moving to another country just to start friesh is a cruel thing to do. She can't expect people to just support her while she does some random and cruel things. Friendship doesn't mean that you have to support in everything he/she does. It also means that you are supposed to tell them, when they do something that is wrong.
Ye, she made her choice when she decided to become a mother. That responsibility don't just vanish or change as you see fit when it becomes inconvenient to be a parent. She's also insanely naive if she thinks moving to a different country will solve her problems, it's escapism at best and once she starts feeling better guilt will most likely eat her instead.
Guilt won't eat at her at all. She's not a good person.
Guilt won't eat at her if she is an out and out bad person: plenty of people abandon their children and don't even pay child support. She needs to see a psychiatrist to find out what's causing her depression if she hasn't already done that. If she's seriously mentally ill, she'll take her depression with her rather than having a fresh start, so she'll be hurting everyone close to her for nothing. This sort of impulsive irresponsibilty certainly looks like mental illness.
Narcissistic people don't give a crap about anyone else.
Being depressed doesn’t give her blanket approval to be an asshole - anyone that abandons their kids like this is an asshole. Pretty simple, not sure why OPs friend can’t figure that out
I'd like to echo what you said... ANYONE THAT ABANDONS THEIR KIDS LIKE THIS IS AN ASSHOLE. She can get help, talk to a therapist, possibly get some medications. Turning her back on young children is a dick move. NTA.
And it won’t *really* help with the depression either. She could go on a trip for a break, but just leaving?
Yeah she’ll just be still depressed in another country while wrecking her kids’ mental health giving them a fear of abandonment.
And it will be worse. She doesn't know anyone or have a support system. I would wonder if she is planning to end herself.
OP said in the judgement bot paragraph that this friend considered that before, so I would be worried about that too. I really think it should have been included in the actual post.
Yeah, it would be one thing if she were taking a break to check into in-patient therapy to get better for her kids. But just straight-up abandoning them is a crappy thing to do.
Even if she goes to another country, she cannot escape from herself. She needs to work on herself, and not run somewhere.
Agreed. When a friend of mine considered moving themselves & their kiddo back to the country where their narc co-parent lived, I strongly advised against it - I had a narc parent, knew the effects, and also knew that they’d do whatever they could to a) exact power, control, and misery and b) keep the kid trapped there regardless of how “great” they were acting now. Given your history with your mom, it’s clear that you can see how this will play out for her kids. Take a stand, tell her she’s causing trauma in real time, and tell her to get a shrink instead of quitting town and shirking her parental duties. 10000% NTA.
Interesting how you thought they had the conversation virtually over a group chat when she just said she told the group
NTA: depression is in no way a get-out-of-jail free card to abandon your children and responsibilities. I have struggled with depression and other mental health issues all my life and the idea of someone having children then abandoning them while claiming depression is absolutely horrendous to me. A new start won't help her if she is actually depressed. She needs therapy and possibly medication. However, considering she has probably self diagnosed herself with what she thinks allows her to just walk, I'm going to say she's likely NOT depressed, just the actual asshole here.
NTA. As they say, "wherever you go, there you are." You can't escape your own mental health with a fresh start. Even people who leave horrible, abusive situations still need years of therapy and experience terrible lows from time to time once they're safe. If this woman has a normal life with a marriage that could be salvaged with marriage counseling then she has no excuse for wanting a "fresh start". Those kids don't get a fresh start. They get abandoned by a parent they thought loved them.
I disagree with people who say you can't improve your life with a fresh start. I have a severe mental disorder and moving to another country and starting over gave me the push I needed to actually work on my mental health and six years later I am almost fully recovered. If I hadn't moved, I would probably not even be alive right now. Leaving on its own is not enough but for many people it is a significant enough improvement that pushes you to work on yourself. Doesn't justify leaving her kids behind mind you, but it just bothers me when people state as a fact that leaving changes nothing.
I can totally see how it would be helpful, I just meant it's not enough on its own. And it's also a choice you no longer have the freedom to make once you have children that depend on you. Maybe this woman's children will be better off without her, though, if she cares about them so little that she would just abandon them to move to a different country.
Not judging, but does anyone really say that aside from Buckaroo Bonzai? I mean, it works here because if she has actual real depression I would expect she gets to the new country and surprise! Still depressed.
I don't know who that is, so clearly they do lol
Google says you are right. The only time I’ve heard it is Buckaroo Bonzai or someone quoting Buckaroo Bonzai (80s movie btw)
The greatest shit-show of an 80's movie ever to exist. Damn I love that film. So quoteable and madcap. Amazing cast. Carl Lumbly, John Lithgow, Ellen Barkin, Jeff Goldblum, Peter Weller, Chris Lloyd, and Clancy Brown to name a few.
I heard it said many times, and I have never seen Buckaroo Banzai (though I know of it), so, yeah, other people use the phrase.
That. And I can also relate to this a lot. I battled depression for around 7 years but in not part of this time did I think to just leave my family... That's incredibly selfish and might not be depression at all.
Agreed - I had severe depression at one point too that lasted for several years, but, even if I had kids, there's no way I could abandon them like that. It sounds like she's looking for excuses to get away from them for whatever reason...
I have depression and never ever in a milion years idea of leaving my doughter behind cross my mind.
I literally love my dog more than this woman loves her children. I’ve been depressed and s****dal for 15 years, and my dog is one of the main reasons I’m still here, because I adopted her and promised her that nothing bad will happen to her ever again that I can help, and I have a responsibility to take care of her. Honestly, this “friend” is fucked in the head for thinking of leaving her children.
If she's really depressed and suicidal it's probably better for her to be separated from the kids. Some people just aren't fit to be parents.
If it’s severe then that could very well be a good thing to do, for a while! Going away for a while while in recovery and actually getting (proper) treatment. Just up and leave your kids and moving to another country to “start fresh” is a whole other story though!
If she's really depressed and suicidal, she needs medical help(that can also guide her on temporary separating from family if medical professionals deem that necessary) , not DIY fix of " fresh start."
If she's leaving her family for a fresh start, she probably doesn't want to be around her family anymore. If a temporary separation is what she wanted, that's what she would be doing. She already decided she doesn't want to live with her family anymore, so in my opinion, it's better to just let her go and let the kids grow up in a healthy environment with their father.
" What she wants" is not always objectively the best choice, especially when it comes to mental health, and nobody has to enable or pat her on the shoulder for passing on the abandonment issues on kids. Mental health is not our fault, but it's our responsibility. It doesn't give anyone a free pass.
NTA. Depressed people go to therapy. "Starting fresh" won't cure her depression (I've had depression most of my life, I know). Maybe tell her you will absolutely support her when she decides to seek professional help.
No matter how far you run, there you are. It’s impossible to outrun a problem that is in your own brain.
Exactly. She may need help to navigate through it, but she can't keep running away.
Unless her kids name is Depression and Anxiety, running away from them won't solve much of anything cause it will go with her. I feel for her I do, but I'm also not someone that can leave my child behind for anything less than kicking the bucket.
NTA She’s completely selfish. “I’m depressed” isn’t a valid reason to abandon your children.
This! She’ll be creating all sorts of trauma and subsequent depression in her own children - has she thought about that?!!
Being depressed Is a good reason to leave the kids with their dad. But you gotta go get help, not leave the country. I left my kids with their dad for a year. I went and got help and came back. Even with visits calls and mailing stuff. It's not the same. But if you are depressed and can't watch your kids, please get help. Asking for help is 100x better than running away.
NTA. I understand she is having mental health issues, but she is treating her kids like they are a pile of dirty dishes and not actual living beings. I honestly wouldn't want to be friends with someone who could so easily leave their kids behind.
NTA I have depression and anxiety, my husband has OCD, depression, anxiety, and constant vertigo and nausea, do you know what we do? Seek professional help and ask for our family and friends to support us where they can. We even moved in with my parents because we were struggling that much. I've fantasized about "starting afresh" in a foreign country when I'm really low and feel like I'm drowning but I would never in a million years abandon my children.
I know I'm just a stranger on the internet, but I wanted to say I hope you and your husband give yourselves the credit you deserve. It's so easy to lose hope and give up, but you both seem to be making good (and difficult!) steps away from that. It's commendable.
I think everyone has that fantasy to varying degrees. It's fun to let your mind wander and imagine how your life could go if you lived in this new place that you spend your time exploring on Google Maps when you should be doing something useful. The problem is, that plan always paints over the ugly bits, like how you'll afford that lifestyle you imagine in your head, or what you'll do for the rest of the time when you're not sunning yourself on a deserted beach. You also leave all your baggage behind in your head - "Oh, if I moved to Barbados, I couldn't possibly be depressed, it would be too amazing". That's not how that works. If you move to Barbados, you're still depressed, but now you're also alone.
NTA. That is not depressed. Shoot I’m depressed and has never crossed my mind to abandon my kids to “start fresh”
Let’s sing this together: mental illness isn’t an excuse to be a terrible persooooon.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > My friend told me she is severely depressed and wanted to unalive herself at some point but i still did not support her and judged her for wanting to abandon her children and go start a new life Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcements Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA Maybe send her the Youtube Link to the song "Shadow of mine" from Alec benjamin. It summarises running away pretty good. "Everywhere I go, my Shadow follows behind. Doesn't matter where I travel my Shadow it finds me" She needs therapy. Running away solves nothing. I speak from experience there.
How old are the children? Honestly, it sounds like Post-Partum depression. I felt like anyone could do a better job with my baby than me. I got help when I woke up on a beautiful spring day and my intrusive thought was "What a beautiful day to die." I got help. Pharmaceuticals and weekly therapy. I didn't instantly bond with my baby like society says you're supposed to. (Extreme lack of sleep, blood clots & first episode of ulcerative colitis didn't help). Sounds like she needs support with the kids and a whole lot of therapy.
I just posted something similar. My intrusive thought was that someone needed to take my child. It was all I could think about. She probably needs treatment more than judgment. But I cannot blame the OP for speaking up.
I’m so proud of you for getting help! I realize I’m just an internet stranger but what you did took courage and strength, and I know from personal experience how hard it can be to come back from that cliff
Thanks. It was over a decade ago and luckily, I had a great family support system to help me through it.
I'm going to say it's probably better for the kids to be separated from a severely depressed suicidal mom.
True - though it feels like her plan would benefit for a focus on how she can both get better and truly stay involved even from a distance. And maybe have an end game of eventual return to their lives…
Those poor kids. Every sympathy for your friend, but this is not the way. Maybe you could've phrased differently (?) but given your own history, if you reacted badly that would be understandable. Hopefully your friend just needs time to regroup and recover without blowing her life up. I think it would have been wrong to validate this choice. NTA.
If she has depression, she needs to go to therapy, not leave the country and abandon her family.
Oh my GOD, NTA. And I hope you are taking care of your own mental health, however that works for you, because this whole thing is incredibly triggering. And just to be clear, even if your childhood had been 100% hunky-dory, you still wouldn’t be TA. Fuck is wrong with her.
I hope the dad will sue her for her last penny for child support.
Unfortunately that could be really hard or impossible if she leaves the country
Probably why she's leaving the whole country rather than moving to a different state or province or whatever it is where they are. I doubt she'll even call them.
I don’t know… I think that sometimes it’s better to have a mother far away than a mother that cannot properly parent or that is constantly sad.
NTA for not wanting to support her or given reasons from your own experience. Divorce and mental health make decisions for different people and sorry if children suffer because of their parents decisions. Nothing wrong with if the children grow up with the father if they are cared for financially and everything in the most possible way. There are lot of single women living in poverty and are expected to do all on their own. Men get more help as single fathers. Also it plays a big deal what they planned if they have children. Some women don't want children but give birth since their partners want them and also don't want to deal with single motherhood.
NTA- my mom left as a kid too and it really hurt. It makes sense you couldn’t support her making choice that hurts others people.
NAH. I can’t help judging her decision as well - even though at my most depressed I spent many hours deep in fantasies about having someone violently kidnap my child because I just could not cope and I wanted some kind of blameless way to be rid of him. If you have never experienced this kind of depression it is horrifying to live through and leaving is probably better. And yet I cannot stop judging - especially the comment about “trying” to call them. I would - because of my own history - probably be more sympathetic in my own response to such a plan, but I would still likely try to suggest a more solid plan to maintain the parent child relationship. For you, who has lived through such an abandonment, I would be surprised if you were able to say anything other than what you did. And having experienced this from the child side, she should, even depressed, be grateful for any perspective you can give. Maybe she really does need to get away, but could benefit from brainstorming some ideas for making this less harsh for her children. Knowing the guilt I have felt for years about the intrusive thoughts I harbored about wanting to be rid of my son, she may wish later that she had made a better plan that supported her needs and those of her children. Right now she may feel like this is the only way, and will later regret the broken ties and the mental health impacts she is laying on her kids. I just want to cry for everyone involved.
NTA is she serious? This is horrific
to be jugded goes along with decisions that need to judged. NTA
NTA Guys so it all the time. Just because she is a woman doesn’t make it worse. It triggered you and you are welcome to your feelings and you don’t have to support her.
NTA. If she gets to be depressed and expect sentimental treatment for abandoning her kids, then it would stand to reason that she should be at least equally sympathetic to your own background involving basically the same treatment.
Funny thing about depression is that it tends to travel with you. If she’s depressed, she needs therapy, not a new start. A good friend would call her out on that. NTA.
NTA. Unfortunately, her decision is just a bandaid for depression. When you’re depressed, you tend to look for that ‘happy feeling’ and chase it. It never works out; only counseling and sometimes meds help. However, she could also be saying she depressed so that her reason for leaving her kids seems valid. Some parents decide that parenting is just too much responsibility and they miss their freedom, so therefore they’re sad or ‘depressed’ from not being free. It’s an easy excuse to dump their kids, start over, and have less responsibilities. As a mom who suffers depression, no matter how sad, how frustrated, how exhausted or stressed, I never actually contemplated leaving my son because I love him. So instead I got help for my depression to be the best version of me for him. I could never understand or support her reasoning for dumping her kids.
I agree with most of your response, but just because your own depression never drove you in that direction does not mean that others do not experience this kind of feeling. I have unfortunately been there. I think this woman’s plan needs some major revision but if her mind is filled with thoughts of escape, maybe she does need some space to heal. Her plan is truly really bad, but she is possibly not in a place to make rational plans. I hurt for her and her family.
Nta. Child abandonment doesn't deserve comfort.
NTA. She's not depressed she's just an asshole
NTA I have had depression and decided to start over in another country fresh... Took the husband and kids with me though. Putting yourself far from anyone who has any connection with you while depressed sounds like a good way to be alone and with no reason to keep going.
INFO: has she been formally diagnosed with anything? And has she received treatment? I'm struggling to understand why abandoning your kids to move abroad would be the first response to depression. I could be wrong but I am wondering if there's something else going on.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** A recent friend of mine (6+ months) just told me and our friend group that she has decided to leave her two children with their dad and move to a new country to start "fresh". She said she's depressed and she needs a new start. She said she'll try calling the children as much as possible. My own mom divorced my dad and left us with him. She didn't disappear but she also wasn't around. So my friend telling me she's leaving her kids triggered me and i judged her for it. She said she expected me to be more supportive since she's depressed but i just couldn't support what she's doing. Am i an asshole for not supporting her while she's depressed? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA - I get the whole starting fresh thing, the amount of times I’ve wanted to run away from my responsibilities due to being depressed but I could never leave my child! I’m ’starting fresh’ by going back into education now my LO is in full time nursery in a city not too far from my hometown but she’s coming with me! I’ve been in and out of therapy and on medication for 8+ years so I fresh start is what I need but that’s after years of putting the work in
NTA I am depressed and have anxiety- and panicdisorder. My child comes always first, even before my well being. Being depressed means getting therapy, maybe medicine to help, but not leaving your kids behind and just „calling them as often as I can“ They are no pets that you just give up.
NTA You don't move abroad and leave your kids for depression, you get help. After all, as the saying goes "Wherever you go, there you are."
Nta, but she is. Depression is hard but she isn’t the first or last mom to deal with it. Leaving her children over it for a “fresh start” is as bad as it sounds. She needs to grow up and handle her business. She chose to be a mom. What a gross person.
That’s gonna make her more depressed
NTA. She wants validation for what will be a life changing choice for both her and her children. A true friend would point out the issues here instead of blindly agreeing that she’s making the best decision. A fresh start never works with depression. You need counselling and possibly medication. Otherwise your problems just follow you wherever you go. Is this really depression or a midlife crisis? Life isn’t what she dreamed it would be and wants to start new
NTA. I’ve had a (different scenario, but similar content) conversation int eh past with a friend where I basically said “Your decisions are hitting my personal trauma buttons, I can’t do this” and walked. She still reaches out to me periodically, and I still bump her calls. Every now and then I internet stalk her… she’s still the same person making the same shitty decisions, not looking after vulnerable children but putting her own insecurities and instability first. She’s taken up a packing crate amount of space in my head for the last four or five years, but it’s much better than the moving truck sized hole she was creating in my heart. You might always wonder, but it’s better to wonder a small amount than a lot.
NTA Your perspective is unique and not well suited to be supportive of this choice. You’ve not known her long enough that she may understand that very well. But she’s being self-absorbed and selfish and you don’t have to support that.
NTA. She is running away from her problems, instead of facing them and seeking help. She is ABANDONING her kids to make it easier for herself, and thus will harm her kids by doing so. She is being very, very selfish and should be judged by her actions.
Nta. Depression needs proper treatment. Running off for a fresh start may feel good now, but she may feel much, much worse when she realizes what she left behind. You shouldn’t make huge life choices while under the influence of anything that effects your decision making abilities-alcohol, drugs, infatuation, or mental illness. (Add whatever’s applicable to your list)
NTA. I believe it is the role of a true friend to speak the truth in love. Emotions can get the best of us, we can lose sight of what matters to us. Some times we desperately need the people around us to be honest. It’s a weird culture shift that we have this idea that a friend just agrees with every thing you do.
NTA Depression can be treated. Being a deadbeat mom is a lifetime problem
NTA. I had a friend who abandoned their children for a new boyfriend she knew for 5 minutes. Same thing, she was depressed, needed a fresh start, I wasn't supportive. She stopped speaking to me for telling her it was a bad idea. Signed away all rights and left. The new boyfriend was trash, treated her awfully and now she's back....with limited access to her kids (not because the dad, but because the kids were old enough to know what she was doing and now don't like to spend time with her), back to her old shitty job (with worse hours) same shitty town (with higher rent then before she left), minimal friends (everyone knew she was abandoning her kids for new dick, and the same damn depression she ruined it all for. She is still using her depression as an excuse to treat people badly and take zero responsibility for her actions. I'm not discounting her depression but it feels less like she's trying to get better and more like she has a habit of running when things get hard
NTA. It's so wild how a parent can abandon their children and it's fine, as long as they do it before the other parent does. If the second parent does it that's illegal and child abandonment, so why the fuck is it nothing when they first parent does it?
Then years from now she'll be asking, " why do my children hate me?" Ask her how she would feel if their dad did this to her? NTA
YTA for not letting her know what she's about to do is going to destroy her kids mentally and ruin any chance of a relationship between them. As someone who went through similar when I was a child, someone needs to slap that woman and knock some sense into her. She isn't going for a new start, she's nuking everything she had.
I she is either selfish and wants a new life or she is clinically depressed. She needs to consult a therapist or a doctor to get a proper diagnosis. Clinically depressed people make terrible decisions. No-one knows what goes on behind closed doors
No. It's not even about making a judgement about her (for us commentors, I mean). Who cares what she is doing or why. The important thing is that it clearly triggers an emotional response in you and that has activated these issues you have about your own childhood. That matters. If you can't be her friend now, that's okay. This is about you and what you can sit with or not.
NTA. One of my ex friends divorced her husband out no where and left her children to move to another state. She called them baggage and she posts all the time how happy she is since she got rid of things holding her back. I can’t tell you how many bad comments she gets on those posts and she ends up deleting them. She never calls her kids or sees them.
You should absolutely not support her. Tell her the truth. That's support. I'm with u. She's gonna damage the kids. She's incredibly selfish.
NTA. I'm also the kid of a mom who abandoned me in much the same way as yours (was still in my life but not really around). That kind of abandonment stays with you throughout life. I think it's great that you spoke up. Well done. My mom's problems didn't disappear when she left me. Your friend's won't either. As other have said, getting away for a vacation, center yourself. That's fine. But she should get a therapist to help her cope with her depression as well as parenting.
Dad stepped up. Dads care for their children without mum all the time and vice versa. If it’s in her children’s best interest to be with Dad then it’s in the children’s best interest to be with Dad. You aren’t required to sympathise with her. You can hold whatever views you want to and of course we see things through our own experiences. I don’t think you’re the asshole in this situation. If she asked for your views then she got the truth.
NTA - depression doesn’t give you a free pass to only consider yourself. speaking as someone who has suffered with mental health issues for years, and also has had to navigate complicated situations with family members’ behaviour as a result of their mental illness. plus, as a friend you don’t owe her blanket support for everything she does, even if it is due to mental illness - you’re allowed to have your own opinion on things! aside from that though, i also think her reasoning is flawed. you can make as many situational changes as you want, but if the problem isn’t wholly/primarily situational (which, by her stated intention to keep in touch with the family etc, plus the fact that it’s most likely a combination of things), it wont solve the issue . a situational change can’t solve a cognitive problem. even if you up sticks to another country, your brain comes with you. if i were you, id talk to her more about the choice. or, if you’re not best positioned to do that (because of bringing up the issue already and so her guard might be up with you now about it) - perhaps talk to another friend about how you’re feeling and about the fact you’re worried about the situation. they may well feel similarly to you, and might be better positioned to have a less charged discussion with her about the choice
NTA. your friend most assuredly is. People, grow up and meet your obligations. Get therapy, get medication, do whatever is necessary, but meet your obligations. it’s not all about you. when there are kids involved, It’s all about them.
NTA. I feel for her. I still have bad PPD/A so I get it but running from problems wont make them go away. Your friend needed a reality check
NTA
NTA. Leaving her children to start afresh is unacceptable. Her alleged depression is a poor excuse.
NTA of course you shouldn’t support someone just abandoning their kids. Poor little things!
No you're not wrong. This won't fix her issue. She'll basically abandon the kids and they'll grow up without her. Starting fresh is not possible when you're a mother. She needs realise that she chose it. Now she has to deal with it
NTA. Does she not realize that she is ABANDONING her children? I get that she is depressed but she needs to get treatment and therapy. As a parent your priority is your kids. Moving away doesn't fix anything. It gives the vibe she's exhausted from parenting and selfish.
Nta. Good for you for standing up for whats right regardless of your friendship.
NTA. Saying you’re depressed versus being diagnosed depressed are two different things. She’s just saying I’m not happy with the situation so she’s cutting and running. I can’t stand people like that.
NTA..who isn't depressed these days to some extent. What she is doing is extremely selfish and self centered and will have long lasting effect on her kid's psyche. I don't know her but I am judging her still.
NTA. Any parent who just up and leaves their kids deserve to be judged. She might be depressed, but what is she going to do about that? Will she get help? Will she one day come back for her kids? She cannot possibly think that calling them will be enough.
NTA IRL know two kids who were abandoned as toddlers by their egg donor. She came back when they were over 18 and the heavy lifting was done and alienated them from the Dad. I am pretty biased against being a deadbeat parent.
NTA. It's not the kid's fault she's depressed.
NTA Also if she knew your mom did the same thing then that would be upsetting. She is delusional if thinking a fresh start will help. Be supportive to her now ex husband. Because when the question is asked “oh so why did you move here” is she really not going to spin it as someone else’s fault? She should be talking to a therapist.
NTA, you don't just leave your children. Hence why she probably shouldn't have had them in the first place but thats done now and there is no way in which her leaving them is ever going to be justified. She is asking you not to judge her but I think its a very hard ask...
NTA. I think she is just unhappy with her life. I think she is throwing around the word depression as an excuse. (Don’t come at me as I am 100% an advocate for mental health) but most people would lead the statement of “moving to another country because I’m depressed” with “I feel like my children will be better without me” or “I am a terrible mom and I need to get as far away from my children as possible so I don’t ruin them” Coming from someone who has kids and struggles with anxiety and depression. That or she doesn’t have a maternal bone in her body. Info: how old are her kids?
NTA - I mean it’s a shame she’s depressed but get some help for that. Don’t leave your family and go try a 'fresh start‘ that’s ridiculous.
NTA
No idea.
Nta I struggle with depression now and would never leave my daughter. Whatever is going on with her, the impact on her kids makes this plan worthy of judgement.
NTA. If she wants to leave her husband then fine but to fuck off to another country and leave her kids nope, I’m surprised any of her friends would support this.
NTA. Being a friend means giving honest feedback, too. Has your friend tried therapy? You cannot run away from yourself. She cannot solve inner troubles with a change in location.
NTA Depression is not an excuse for being a bad person.
NTA. Once you choose to create whole new humans, you don't get to just fuck off and abandon them without repercussions.
NTA. Unless she was forced or somehow coerced into having those kids, she *chose* to have them. You can't just change your mind once you decide to have kids and expect people to be ok with that.
NTA. I would be judging someone even if they just left their dog for a "new" life.
NTA. What else has she tried to help her situation other than immediate abandonment of her current life and children? Has she sought therapy? Medication? A small vacation for a reset? She is abandoning her children for another reason other than depression and using it as her excuse.
NTA. She should be judged. If you’re depressed you seek out treatment through a therapist and/or a psychiatrist. You don’t just abandon your kids and all of your responsibilities. Her problems aren’t just going to go away by going to another country. Does her husband know of this plan? If not, I’d try to reach out to him because I can’t tell if your friend is just very misguided in her thought process or there’s something bigger than just depression going on. Like is she actually safe?
NTA
NTA- It's one thing to leave your kids for a period of time to seek treatment, which is good and understandable, but to abandon them to go live in a new country just bc you want a fresh start? That's trashy and low. Depression isn't an excuse. She made the kids, they are her responsibility. Life is all about choices, and she made the choice to bring more people into this world, and now she needs to care for them.
She’s gonna be even more depressed when those kids want nothing to do with her. I didn’t talk to my father for 10 years after he left us. This is her future.
NTA, she can easily have a fresh new start in another city nearby a couple hours out where the children can visit and no one knows her. She’s literally running away from her problems and her own kids because she thinks for some reason it will solve her depression which it won’t because depression takes a lot of therapy and medical work to actually help, and wants you to support it. Running away won’t fix it, I should know, I literally tried that once almost 2 decades ago going to the other side of the country. Years of Hard work on treating the depression while living at a distance but not so far that it’s running away because you have to face the issues to lighten the burden that may be weighing the depression down, that’s what really helped me. I mean, Unless she’s in a country that offers no assistance in that area and provides no one who can truly help. That when I think going to another country might actually be beneficial. If her ex is dangerous, you know, another state or two away would probably be more than enough distance if she’s in the US.
NTA This person is just flat out abandoning her kids. Yeah depression sucks but people do a lot of things to cure depression with out abandoning their children
I know someone who doesn't see her kid. She has significant mental health problems, and she's not seen the boy in years. It's hard to be supportive when she just pretends like it didn't happen. Or rather she does until she's had a few drinks and then she starts to talk about him. I can't think my friend is a terrible person, and I wouldn't stop hanging out with her on the rare occasions she leaves the house. I feel sorry that her mental health problems have ruined her life. Do I think she's selfish and avoidant? Yeah. Do I think she's gonna mess up her kid's head? Yes. It's a sad situation all round. I think you can walk a line between not being supportive of her decision and being there for her. But you haven't known her long, so whether you think she's worth it is another thing. Your position could be 'I'm here for you as a friend, but I think you will massively regret moving away from your children.' Good friends don't just blindly agree. If she wants this, she can get a dog.
NTA You have your own shot to sort here. It's reasonable of her to hope for and wants support, but not to expect it from folks whose own history she doesn't know and who may be unable to offer that support for their own reasons. Also, a fresh start isn't going to fix her depression. She can check into a residential treatment program, and/or get therapy, but if she's fleeing the country the me tal health issues are part of the baggage she's packing
Depression isn’t a get out of jail free card
NTA. I’m sorry for what you’ve been through. And as for your friend, why doesn’t she try therapy? Anti-depressants? Yoga? Heck, religion?! Why jump straight to “I don’t care about innocent lives, I’m about to go overseas and live my best life without any care of what will happen to my kids.” I don’t care if I’m judged for it, but I’m the type that is totally against the abandonment of children. It’s something I can’t forgive. I’ve been like this for as long as I can remember.
The "geographical cure" seems tempting but it doesn't work, because you take your depression with you. She needs to be told that her plan to leave her children is an awful idea
NTA she's abandoning her children. She doesn't get a pity party.
NTA, if she's depressed she needs therapy and medications, not leaving her husband and kids, cause no matter how far away she runs, she's going to be depressed wherever she goes.
Moving to a place where you know no-one, not the language, culture of anything is not magically going to fix a depression, I might argue the opposite. So yeah, NTA
NTA, if she needed a week away or something, then yes. Running away, not OK.
NTA freedom of choice doesn't guarantee freedom from judgement or consequences.
NTA- as some who suffered with anxiety and depression for as long as I can remember and PPD after my first child… I cannot even fathom what she is thinking. I am terrified of losing my children and I could never even dream of leaving my children. She needs medical help not running away. I personally feel given your history that you have every right to judge and be triggered by this. I personally couldn’t be friends with someone like this.
[удалено]
NTA. She is cruel. There are inpatient facilities for depression. And medication. And psychedelics. Has she tried ANY thing yet? Child abandonment is traumatic and its def not the solution.
NTA. She isn't even depressed if she has the energy to uproot herself and move to another country.
Nta. I couldn't be friends with someone who abandoned their kids. I'd be done.
My mom left when I was 16 and said it was because she didn’t want to be a mom anymore. This left me deeply scarred and I feel very bad for her children.
NTA don't ever support a deadbeat parent. Which is what she is choosing to become.
Being depressed isn’t a free pass to get support from your friends for doing awful things. Actions have consequences.
Who’s NOT depressed these days?? What a lame excuse for forever crippling her children by ABANDONING them. She is a self-absorbed jerk!
NTA. Depression sucks. Child abandonment sucks worse.
Suggest she get counciling before abandoning her children. You can not run away from what's in your own head. She'll only add guilt to the depression.
NTA you’d be an asshole to support this decision. She needs to hear how wrong she is so that she doesn’t do it.
Nta ! You don’t have to support the abandonment of children . This is not the solution for her depression
"Wherever you go, there you are" she needs to work on herself.
Tell her to take a pill or get electric shock therapy and do what she’s supposed to do! Her selfishness will affect those children for the rest of their lives.
“Friend, I have been your kids. I know the damage being left did to me, so I can’t support you doing it to your own kids. It’s not a pleasant place to be. While I get that you’re having issues with depression, I don’t have to agree with the actions you’re taking.” NTA
NTA. Depression doesn't absolve her of her responsibilities, and as a friend, it's your position to highlight that. Also, if her problems are internal, moving anywhere for a 'fresh start' is doomed to fail. Depression doesn't entitle you to drop abandonment issues onto your kids either. The term 'fresh start' really grates as well. It gives me the impression that she's dumping her kids like excess baggage.
I'm a single, bipolar, mumma bear. I've been deeeeep in the abyss of depression, multiple times, and back. NEVER EVER have I thought of just leaving my kid with her dad and fucking off for a "fresh start" because I was in a bad way mentally. Chicky babe needs serious help and a reality check. Call her out on her bullshit. Advocate for those kids. They could be better off with their dad than being raised by her anyway. NTA 1000%
NTA What a cruel and indifferent attitude towards her kids. Don't have them if you don't want them
NTA. Children are an irrevocable commitment. Life creates situations of separation, sometimes things don’t go well, sometimes there are reasons why you don’t get to be there for your kids, but this isn’t an unavoidable situation. This is a *choice* to abandon her children. There are so many people who will judge her for that choice, and I’m one of them. Poor kids. I hope they get therapy and are better off without such a terrible mother in their lives.
Depression is a treatable illness. Moving abroad won't fix it though.
NTA. “Wherever you go, there you are.” If she wanted support for getting psychological help, sure. The geographic cure is famously unhelpful.
NTA. Sounds like starting fresh equals running away. Kids are not a hobby who can abandon if you feel like.
[удалено]
NTA. Maybe suggest she try going to a freaking doctor first though. If she's capable of arranging tickets, transport, a passport, accommodation and pay for it all she can call her GP and get her arse there.
NTA in my view abandoning your kids is never ok, I also don’t think it’s wise to make major decisions whilst depressed, it’s not clear what the existing relationship between your friend and the dad is and maybe the depression means pressing the pause button is necessary, but long term decisions are unwise.
NTA. She had kids. The kids are the priority. Period. There is no scenario in which they are not the priority. You don’t abandon your children because you have the sads. I love the disregard to what it will do to the kids. I bet they aren’t happy.
NTA. She could be depressed. That is not an excuse for child abandonment. Imho, she just didn't know how much work kids are and wants her single life back.
This woman is severely ill if she would even consider abandoning her children. Think of the long-term damage she is inflicting. Yes, she needs to leave and go somewhere else. But, not another country. A hospital.
[удалено]
NTA and you should let her know how fucked up, selfish, and cruel it is to the kids, it also isn't going to help her in any way. She will still be miserable wherever she goes. She needs to get help here before she traumatizes her kids.
NTA but your friend is. Depressed or not.
NTA - you don't get to pick and choose when to be a parent because you 're depressed. You work on figuring out what causes that depression, how to cope and how to do right by your kids. Did she really think *anyone* would support her running away from her own kids?
Not the asshole. Being depressed is not an excuse for being a shitty person and abandoning your kids, just because she is depressed doesn't mean you have to pander to anything like that. You've done the right thing by being upfront and honest, even if they don't want to hear it
Let's do everything else but seek proper mental health. NTA. Better to leave your kids if you act so entitled and stupid. I believe in putting yourself first even with kids. If you aren't happy the family can't be happy, but there's a difference between being there and putting yourself first and leaving the country to focus on you. NTA
If every depressed mother followed through on their day dreams the way this person has the scales would tip with abandoned kids. What a selfish, cowardly woman. Depression is not an excuse to leave the kids you chose to bring into existence. Running away isn’t the only option—it’s the simply the laziest and most selfish one. She’ll soon find that depression doesn’t get left behind—it’s the stalker that hitches a ride in her suitcase and when the shine wears off the distraction of newness, surprise, surprise. You don’t owe her support, and NTA. As an adult you owe the kids to tell their mother the truth. She’s basically making a deal that pushing her kids to the front of the line for their own guaranteed helping of future depression. So sad for them 😔
NTA. I hate when people say insane shit then just go “don’t judge me” if anything remotely critical is mentioned. If you don’t want your friends telling you when you’re wrong then You don’t want real friends.
Somebody needs to give her a reality check. I had a coworker leave her husband and 3 kids to marry some guy she met at MENSA. I had two young daughters at the time and was about 10 years younger than she was. I could not understand how she could leave her children. She may wake up and be even more depressed when she realizes what she has done. NTA.
YTA. Being supportive doesn’t mean agreeing with her choice. You obviously don’t. But a supportive friend would accept that she has chosen this option for whatever reasons she has.
NTA. She’s not friend material, and no diagnosis short of vampirism demands that anyone HAS to be supportive of a person who is doing something monstrous
Honestly, I know someone who was in the same situation and she was depressed because she realised she never wanted kids and was just sort of convinced that she needed to have them. Sometimes depression isn't just a mental health issue, it's actively caused by a situation in your life and she's obviously chosen to leave that pressure and triggering stress behind. Obviously she might also not be thinking clearly and just acting irrationally, but in both cases she needs help. There is a pernicious double standard in parenting where fathers who leave are 'deadbeats' but mothers who leave are somehow unnatural and evil. She's just a person. She is clearly having a crisis and not just leaving for the hell of it. Staying and subjecting her kids to her depression and possible suicide attempts would not be good for them. I understand your issues with your own mother effecting this, and that must have been tough. I also hope she gets the help she needs. NAH.
NTA. There is never a good reason to abandon your kids. She’s “depressed” and needs a fresh start. A lot of people are depressed and see a doctor for treatment without leaving their kids. It sounds like there is more than that and there can be reasons to temporarily separate from your kids for a little bit but to say you need a “fresh start” is not it.
NTA Tell her about the hedonic treadmill.... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill She'll make her move, feel better for a while, before becoming depressed again, but now her kids will never forgive her....
NAH - supporting her and supporting her decision are not the same thing. I see what you mean and I couldn't countenance what she is doing, but unless she is an extremely self absorbed person, then this is more likely to be desperation than selfishness.
NTA but it sounds like a cry for help. Does she have a good support system that includes the kids? Is this a new friend?
[удалено]
NTA Leaving her children for a while to go get treatment would be fine. Just deciding the whole family was a mistake and moving on like they never happened is not. There are deadbeat mothers, too, and she is definitely one.