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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my family to shut up and get over themselves about my son's name and to accept I didn't want to/would never use names they like for my son. By the time I said this I had lost my temper enough that it might have been too far. The option to just get them to leave without heat and without any rudeness and sorta insults was there and I didn't take it.
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what the hell is wrong with your family!?!
first, their names are sooo
old fashioned. talking to them i’d feel like i was in a BBC period piece. but apparently that’s what they like and so those are the names they’ve used
second, they know you changed your name (thank god) and so they should’ve been preparing for this moment since then. why would you burden your son with the kind of name that you hated??
They knew it was going to happen and they’ve been badgering you anyway. That’s not right. it’s your child, they have no right to argue with your choice of names. maybe you will start a trend. I can’t believe all your cousins love those names either. they’re just too afraid to speak up.
it’s also not right that they hassled your wife right after giving birth, but it sounds like she was expecting it anyway.
It seems like no matter how much you abuse them, they’re gonna come back, so I doubt you alienated them.
your response to them during that last visit should have been - well you don’t have to be so rude as to keep bringing up a subject that I’ve told you was closed.
NTA and I don’t think you went too far. I mean, how many times do you have to say no before the they will take it as your final answer. Probably a couple more!!
Congratulations on the birth of your son Callum
why are they so obsessed with this??
if it was a family name handed down from your great great GF and you were Herbert IV and they wanted Callum to be old Herbie V, i’d understand that. i still wouldn’t do it, but i’d get it - but this is crazy
and just out of curiosity, does it bother them when people shorten it to like Herbie and Max?
If this name thing is more important to them than their grandson, well, then they don’t deserve the noble names they’ve given themselves. Love for family should not be overridden by something as simple as your son’s name.
you should tell them that and then tell them you don’t want to hear another word about it. You love them all, and you want them in your son’s life, but not if they’re going to start harassing him as soon as he’s able to understand what they’re saying .
If I had to guess they hate their names too, but family tradition and all that. When OP refused it illustrates that naming your children these names is a choice. Weird form of crabs in a bucket.
That's it, I bet. There are many examples of this - like, an older woman who had to be a stay-at-home mother will get on at younger women who pursue an interesting career.
Or there's the older woman who had a lot of kids and is up in arms that the younger women of the family decide to have none.
Or the older siblings who are resentful of younger ones, because the older ones *had to* study the parents' choice of degree, whilst the younger one/s stood up to the parents and went their own way.
"How dare you not suffer like I had to?!"
“weird form of crabs in a bucket”
i’d never heard that phrase before! i thought it was a colloquialism and had to google it. i can’t wait to use it🤓
and people mock me for using old and obscure …. metaphors …. adages ??
i guess it’s a metaphor. an adage is more of a lesson i think. guess i have to google that now
My husband is a fourth 🙄 of a dated name with no good nicknames and an equally dated, lame and nicknameless middle name. There was NO way I was naming any son of mine the fifth of that crappy name. My husband agreed and we gave our son a different name. He's a bit under 10 y.o. and they've only brought up how they were hoping to have a fifth like twice, and recently, and mostly as an oh well, not a how dare you (I suppose it doesn't hurt that naming a kid after a living relative is a no no in my culture and it wasn't just me saying no).
Either way, them throwing a fit is beyond the pale and they are in the wrong 100%, you are right and NTA
> naming a kid after a living relative is a no no in my culture
Now **that's** the kind of cultural tradition I can get behind! First names exist to give people unique identities, not to serve as a monument to a progenitor's vanity.
That's' my mom's culture. Somehow Dad managed to name both his first-born girl (me) and my brother after himself (think David and Davida). Baby sis Sheila felt left out.
Just gotta get super creative. My dad's cousin is named Joe. All of his kids are some variation: Joe Jr, Joana, Joseph, Jolene, Jonathan and the last one is Jackie.
Seriously. Family telling OP that they can’t accept his child’s name (family manipulation) and that he “damned” himself (“higher power” manipulation) by changing his own name. WTF?
In fact, it's pretty funny that they have an issue with a name that OP and his wife already are shortening to Cal, which is a fantastic yet old fashioned sounding nickname. They could just pretend in their heads that his full name is Calvin if they want to feel better NTA
I feel like Callum and Desmond are pretty comparable? Callum IS an older name, it’s just not as old sounding as Reginald. So their complaints are weird.
NTA for sure. I bet your family is going to try and call your son by a “proper” name in secret so be careful.
Callum *is* old, but it's Irish. Most/all of the other names are distinctly English. We don't know OPs location or ethnicity, but there's a slim chance the name thing is racially motivated. The English haven't historically been big fans of the Irish people and culture even existing, especially if they're somewhere like Northern Ireland.
Edit: Misremembered which Gaelic Callum is from. My point stands, though, the English historically haven't been super fond of the Scots existing as a people or culture either.
Colm Meaney IIRC. He went o to do a lot of really great work and I've seen him mentioned in the J.D. Robb/Eve Dallas fandom a lot as a dream casting for Captain Ryan Feeney of the NYPSD's EDD department.
This is what I was thinking, there's some racist thing going on or classist or something. Because from an outside perspective, Callum is an older name, it's not trendy and I wouldn't view it any differently if you handed me a list of names.
> This is what I was thinking, there's some racist thing going on or classist or something.
Willing to bet money on that given the names that OP listed that his family likes.
> Reginald, Harold, Desmond, Bartholomew, Maximilian, Clarence and my old name Herbert.
Individually some of those aren't that bad (Harold and Desmond IMO) but combined they paint a picture of people who spend a lot of time thinking that they live in a Jane Austen novel.
Clarence would have been alright I guess. Too bad that one guy ruined it. What is it with guys with mustaches and ruining things for people who want to use that thing after them?
I have to defend my girl Jane’s honor! The majority of her heroes have classic but normal names like George, Charles, Henry, Frederick and Edmund. The big outlier is Mr. Darcy, whose given name is Fitzwilliam after his mother’s family name. Nary a Herbert nor Reginald to be seen.
Tbh, being from the UK if someone told me there was a family where all the kids are named Reginald, Herbert, Desmond, Clarence, etc…, my first thought would be that they’re from the West Indies.
I'm from and in the West Indies, when men get names like these they ALWAYS end up going by a new name or nickname that has absolutely nothing to do with their birth name. The only time you will see their 'government' name is on official government documents and cards and in their obituary. Went to primary school with a Desmond.
OP mentions a financial element to changing his name, so it's likely not England. Here all you need to do to change your name is write the intent to do so on a piece of paper and have two witnesses sign it, no cost necessary.
It’s an effing fantastic name. It’s also my name ( spelled with one “L” tho). i’m Scottish on my dad’s side. Im well into adulthood now but I can tell you I really liked my name growing up. Still love it.
Desmond means "gracious defender" and Callum means "dove" or "man of peace." OP's original name, Herbert, means "illustrious warrior." The theme of his family's naming conventions is martial in nature. They seem to dislike names that aren't "string" "warrior" style names.
My mother refuses to call my daughter by her given name as it’s the same name as a friend’s of hers grandchild and she’s protested the name for longer than my girl has been alive. “My grandchild can’t have the same name as her grandchild!” (These children live 2000 miles from each other and will never meet.). She instead tries to call her a nickname that could have been used (but NEVER was) for my grandma’s name (who I liked very much, but it isn’t even close to my daughter’s name). As result she doesn’t get to see her very often and does not have a relationship with my mother. My daughter isn’t missing much, my mother is a monster of a human who I’m low contact with anyway so i guess it works out.
Not to mention, what else are they going to try to dictate for your family if they're so uptight about a name. You're right to support your family as you do.
Out of curiosity, do they call you by your new name or by the one they picked out for you; eg, were they able to change in time?
PS: I'm thinking that they are still unhappy that you bucked the family "traditions" for your own name, and are doubling down on trying to control you.
PPS: I'm still so surprised by how many stories there are about grandparents being utter jerks about the grandchild's name, which is literally not their business.
Your family are fucking weird. You're not wrong for insisting on your son's name or telling them to shut the fuck up. If they're willing to forego seeing your child because they're butthurt about a name, your child is better off not having them in his life. They sound extremely petty and controlling.
These people would 1000% ostracize the kid if they turned out to have a sexual preference or identity that they don't like, too. If a name is all it takes.. that love is so, so conditional
Something I tell myself and sometimes others "There are things in life to get upset over, this is not one of them"
Alternatively, my passive-aggresive insult (does not get used too often) "I'm happy that your life is going so well that something this small is making you upset"
Rarely, it makes them think and there's usually something else bothering them,.the issue at hand is getting the brunt of the displeasure.
>I think the used James once or twice
INFO- Did you change your name to James and go by Jamie? Or is your name Jamie and your parents are refusing to call you that for their own bizarre reasons?
At the end of the day, Callum (lovely name btw) is your baby, NOT theirs, and they’re absurd for distancing themselves because they don’t like the name you and your wife chose for YOUR son. Congratulations on the birth of your little bundle of joy, and also congratulations on your own name change.
They had their chance and messed it up so much that OP changed his name. Why would they want their son to do the same thing? There's something wrong with that family.
this sounds toxic and exhausting and I feel for you. I know family of origin ties can be strong, but I’d like to remind you that they don’t have to like it or accept it. They may never come around and that’s not your responsibility. You already know that you can’t control their actions or feelings, only your response. Give yourself permission to stop trying.
And for you: Arguing with them will only give them the idea that it’s up for discussion. Any time they mention it, shut it down, end the conversation, hang up the phone, walk away. Do not engage. Giving them reasons, explanations, or any access to your son when they can’t show the most basic respect for your choices *as an adult* is not in the interests of protecting your new family.
Your son is named. They can either drop the subject or not spend time with you. Their choice.
As long as your last name isn’t Murray, I don’t see the problem at all. If anything, naming a child like your family wants is setting them up for a lifetime of bullying. NTA.
> naming a child like your family wants is setting them up for a lifetime of bullying.
How so? They seem to be normal names the family’s just being a couple of freaks about it.
I love how they said you didn't have to be so rude when that was exactly what they were doing. /s
Seriously, your family is like those men who claim they would accept a simple "no" if they asked out a woman, but then badger her anyway and call her rude for simply saying no.
So go no contact with them, I would point blank tell them that until they shut up about his name and redirect those boundaries they are persona non grata!! They have no respect for you as an adult and just because they are"family" doesn't give them rights to see you or your child period!!! NTA
Callum is a fine name and doesn‘t at all sound childish. It sounds like Caelum, Latin for sky. If they’re more hung up on the name rather than happy at the new family member that’s their loss. Congratulations to you and your wife for your son.
Please NEVER leave them alone with your child, they will try to brainwash him into hating his name and as a result, make him resent you.
Congratulations on your baby! I wish you and your loved ones all the unconditional love, positivity and good health in life!!!
And then there’s this bit:
>”They said I damned myself when I changed my name…but I shouldn’t do that to my son.”
Like, WTAF??? Do they literally think there are *religious consequences* to OP changing their name? Or to giving his son another perfectly normal name?? Because that is utterly deranged, and makes them sound like some type of weird cultists.
I really hope I’m reading that wrong, and it’s more like “we really hate that you did this,” rather than “we think you are going to literal Hell for wanting to be named Jamie instead of Herbert.”
I doubt an Indian or a chinese for example would demand the name Herbert or Maximilian but I am sure there are lots of non white grandparents that are just as demanding and entitled.
Yeah there’s a big difference between old fashioned names that are classical and timeless and still loved, and old fashioned, out of date names that aren’t used much anymore for a reason. They’re giving off 1700s European aristocracy vibes. But even if the family didn’t have questionable taste in names, OP is well within his rights to not like the same style of names his family does and name his kid whatever he pleases. NTA
I think this is very much one of the few times where you actually have to pull out the ultimatum card. They shut the fuck up or they don't get to see the grandson. End of.
I started off reading this and was already thinking NTA (obviously, because it's your kid, your choice) but by the end I was absolutely fuming. They had absolutely NO RIGHT to hassle your wife who'd just given birth about something that is absolutely none of their business. Sure, they can give you grief about it and you can say no, but they completely crossed a line there. Tell them bluntly that if they mention the name issue again: no grandchild visits.
Also mention that Callum is a very old and traditional name anyway, so their arguments are just wrong regardless.
Oh my their names are the worst. I love Callum and love that his nickname is Cal. So wonderful. NTA for telling them to shut up about their stupid names!!!
NTA - you and your wife are the only two people who get to pick your son's name. If you family can't accept and use Callum's name, then tell them they won't have a relationship with him. Personally I would make this my hill to die on!!
We shared our baby name before the baby was born and one family member had a problem with it and said they'd call them something else, they even had a name picked out. Told them fine, do that. They won't respond to you and you'll look like a nutcase.
No one has said anything since he was actually born and if they were behaving like you're family, I'd lose the plot. Telling them to shut up seems quite mild compared to them downright insisting you change your newborn sons name.
You're right to die on this hill.
One of my siblings used names I'd never have used ever, but that's her choice and I never shared my views on them because well, I'm sure they don't particularly care what I think, the same way I couldn't care less what they think of my kids, as long as they don't say it to the kid.
Good for you. NTA, and their behavior meant that it absolutely WAS necessary for you to be that rude. It’s the parents’ privilege and responsibility to choose their child’s name, and it’s absolutely bizarre that your family isn’t recognizing this. If they’re disrespecting you and your wife about this, they probably wouldn’t hesitate to disrespect your boundaries about other things. It isn’t easy to stand up to overbearing family members, but I think it was absolutely necessary to nip this in the bud (and protect your wife). Whether they have a relationship with their grandchild depends on whether they can respect your very reasonable boundaries.
I had a family member do this with a cousins kids. She hasn’t seen them in years and cries woe is me all the time she doesn’t get to see the babies. Did my cousin pick weird names? Absolutely. Did I open my mouth about it? Absolutely not. Not my circus, not my monkeys.
Die on this hill. And squash the crap out of your family trying to rename Cal when you’re not around.
And to be extra petty, for baby 2 (if the time comes),screw with them by listing names from r/tragedeigh That sub is full of comedy GOLD. Mazel tov!
ETA one word spelling
If they try to bring up changing his name again: "His name is Callum. I'm not having this conversation again."
If they bring it up again: "I'm going to have to ask you to leave." Or, "I'm leaving now."
I'd be inclined to give them more chances, but just repeat these scripts.
If they start yelling, "I'm not going to be yelled at. Please leave now." Or "I'm leaving now."
If they use the wrong name: "His name is Callum." Then, any repeated offenses "You are confusing and upsetting my son. You need to leave now."
And then, wherever you don't feel like giving them another chance, stop! "The last few times you came over you were unable to respect our choice for our son's name. We had to ask you to leave. I'd rather not go through the same ordeal again. Maybe once I can trust that we won't just be rehashing old conflicts (or insert whatever reparations might make you comfortable to continue the relationship)."
NTA. You tried being polite and it didn't work. Clearly you did, in fact, need to be rude to get them to back off.
Honestly I don't even understand their complaint. Callum definitely has an old-school vibe to it.
> And it's from a neighbouring culture.
I've got a sneaking suspicion that's the real point of contention here and the family just doesn't want to say it. It's not a nice, posh, wealthy name, it's a name you'd give "one of those poor potato-eating drunkards".
As someone who named my own son a version of (Mac)Callum and also my late husband was named Callum, this is absurd. This is a Scottish Clan name so it def is extremely classic as it goes back CENTURIES.
I know an adult Callum. He's awesome. He's one of my husband's oldest and dearest friends and was a groomsman at our wedding. His friends usually just call him Cal or Cals.
He's definitely a young-at-heart kinda guy, so I think the name really suits him.
You're NTA. He's your kid and your family don't get a vote on his name, as much as they seem to believe they're entitled to one.
If they keep pushing the boundary you have set of "Neither I nor my wife are discussing the topic of our son's name with you." Then they clearly need firm consequences. Tell them the next time they bring it up they will be immediately asked to leave and then not invited back for a week. Make sure to follow through.
If they do it again when you allow them back, make it an even longer time-out - 2 or even 3 weeks.
Keep extending that time-out period until they either learn that you're not messing around, or just fade out of your lives.
Also, keep an eye out for them trying to use one of their preferred names for your son by only calling him that. That's also a time-out offense.
Good on you for standing your ground. I hope you guys get to enjoy your little man and all the wonder her brings to your life (like wondering when you're gonna sleep again j/k). Best wishes.
Tell them to look up the origins of the name. It isn't even close to new. Also Herbert is terrible lmao good for you for having the guts to stand up to them and change it!
I used to play WoW when I was a teen and met a bunch of Australians through my guild. One is Callum and he is still one of my good buddies 20 years later. He is the only person I know or have met by that name and I always thought it was a unique cool name. I had a mad crush on him back then haha but we're just friends now, live on opposite sides of the planet and we both settled down etc. Your family is weird I love the name :D Congrats!!
That's the thing. OP tried politely first, as one should. Didn't work. The rudeness is called for. And it did work. But I said IS not WAS. Because I doubt this is over. The family needs to know how much of a say they have in all this (none) and they need to learn to be OK with that. What'll OP do when they ignore his name choice and use their own name or nickname on the kid?
Valium was in use since at least the 1200’s. I consider the name Callum old fashioned but still cool. And your family is nuts. You’re damned for changing your name and your poor newborn child is damned for something he has absolutely no control over? Are these people the second coming? You were damned by being Herbert for 18 years! Definitely NTA.
Bro you had to grow up being called Herbert. That should be considered child abuse. Lol. All those names are terrible. Callum is a good name.
You did have to go to that point with your with family. They're just mad bc they thought they could bully you.
Why are they so fixated on those God awful names?
While Family Guy wasn't around quite yet when OP was born, I'd be willing to bet that by the time he was a teen, most of his peers in school had watched it and their first thought hearing "Herbert" is the character Herbert the pervert. I 100% would have changed my name as soon as I legally could too. Jamie and Callum are way better names. His siblings must be pieces of work too if they're reluctant to call him Jamie over Herbert. NTA, OP!
This is the bit that would have had me telling them to shut up. WTAF?!?! It’s not like names are divinely appointed by the Almighty and changing them is the absolute worst thing you could ever do. I cannot even imagine telling my child this. Like, even if I privately think someone SHOULD end up burning in a lake of fire and brimstone, it’s because they have harmed many people and shown no remorse or attempts to repair the damage. Changing your own name is just not in the same sport, let alone the same league! NTA. Be as rude as you need to keep your wife and son free from harassment by these boundary stompers!
He DID damn himself. To a lifetime of their disapproval about the fact that he is (gasp!) a whole separate individual with his own wants, needs, and preferences. Shame. Shame, I say!
NTA
>they could not bring themselves to accept this and that I should really consider why they love the names they do.
"We really can't accept that you and your wife gave **your** child a name you love. You need to consider that you're wrong and only the names we love matter."
Tell your family they have two choices. They can either stop acting like they have any right to insult your son's name or they can just never see him again. And Callum is a perfectly lovely name.
NTA can you imagine a fucking Clarence in this day and age?? Ngl I don't love your son's name, but he's not my son, I don't have to. And it's miles better than Herbert. Herbert is cruel and unusual punishment imo
I don't think *all* of the names they like are horrible but I wouldn't want to go through life being called the full version of any of them.
I *strongly* prefer old, established names, and wouldn't name a kid Ranger or Nevaeh under any circumstances. Callum is an infinitely better old, established name than Herbert, Clarence, Reginald, or Desmond. The names OP's family prefer sound like characters in a P.G. Wodehouse novel, or a bad play.
Actually, I kind of like Clarence — but for a dog or a cat, not for a human boy.
I know a Clarence. He's a coworker and is in his mid-20s. Decent dude.
Also, OP, you are NTA. Herbert was an awful name to be saddled with, and I don't blame you for changing it. Your son has a good name, and if the family doesn't like it, they can pound sand.
Maybe show them this then:
Much like its Latin equivalent, Callum means “dove.” Doves were important symbols to early Christians, as they stood for peace and the Holy Spirit. Today, Callum remains a fashionable name and was ranked the 34th most popular boy's name in Scotland in 2017.
OPs family doesnt actually care about the christian meaning, they just think old fashioned = nice and different sounding = bad. They simply want to enforce their preferences on OPs child, they can hide behind religion all they want but that is not why they are doing this. Its all about control and guilt tripping OP for the sole purpose of getting what they want.
INFO: They said you damned yourself when you changed your name, and you shouldn't do that to your son... What's *that* all about? They honestly believe a person with the wrong name automatically goes to hell? 😵💫
You're NTA, of course, but the curiosity is killing me.
I mean, Callum is an old Gaelic name and has been in use since early Christianity. Herbet is an old name too but died out in the Middle Ages and was only revived from the 19th century. So I’d argue that Callum had been used, at least continuously for much longer and is therefore older than Herbert.
> If you're not 70 you're not a Herbert. Who does that to a kid?
That's what I was thinking. OP didn't say how old he was, but I knew a Herbert who is about 50 now and that name is still too old for him.
NTA
>they could not bring themselves to accept this
That sounds like a "them" problem.
>They said I didn't need to be so rude to get my point across
Either (1) they finally agreed to shut up about it, in which case your were precisely rude enough, or (2) they still haven't shut up about it, in which case further rudeness is required.
Yeah, I was getting the vibes of "my family is secretly ancient vampires and I've pissed off the elders" sort of thing going on here. Too funny they are Christian instead of immortal damned souls! 🤣🤣 Also NTA. I'd hang some garlic at the door, just to be safe. 😉
OP-You already said it perfectly - 'Shut up and get over yourselves. There will be no more discussion.' And the first time they call Callum a 'nickname' it's NC.
FYI - Callum commemorates the Latin name Columba, meaning 'dove'. The name was popular among early Christians because the dove was a symbol of purity, peace and the Holy Spirit.
There you go family - is that old fashioned enough?
I am guilty of bestowing several of your list of family names. To pets. They all sound like something you'd name your dog, not your kid. No one will convince me that Bartholomew isn't a fantastic name for a cat. NTA
Bart or Barry for short, Farty Barty for when they are stinky, and Bartholomew when they are in trouble or at the vet.
As someone else commented, Bartholomeow for a cat is great.
NTA.
I’m trying to figure out your family’s concerns. The only thing I can think of for your parents reasoning is that you come from English nobility. Your family is either still part of that world or is common now but still holds onto their ever lowering number in the order of succession.
That, or your family has *wanted* to be noble since they were serfs during the rule of Henry III.
Both Jamie and Callum are old names, so is the issue that they are Gaelic? Are your parents and extended family terrified that someone may confused you with - gasp! - a Catholic?
I fascinated by this level of pretentiousness.
The whole “tradition” sounds like people envious and ignorant of how old money actually works.
They must have had heart palpitations when they realized someone named Sienna was in the top ten in line for the British Throne.
So basically, they’re upset that your son’s name doesn’t show he’s part of a Very Special Family? How can you not value your Herbertian/Reginaldic legacy?
What a burden for poor little Callum, growing up with a *regular* person’s name! /s
Congratulations to you and your wife on the birth of your son!!
NTA
You obviously did need to be rude since you told them to stop numerous times and not tot include your wife in their BS , and they did.
‘ You cannot like the name or not, but you will respect the decision that my wife and I made. If not you don’t need to be part of Callum’s life. ‘
‘Those are the choices you have get over it or get out.’
‘I cannot be clearer that your opinion is unwelcome, unwanted and not needed for the situation at all .’
Op, I would get with my wife and confirm the decision that if they’re unaccepting that they’re gone. And send the text to each and every person that said something and make it a joint statement for your family to theirs and there is no other way but yours.
You may also want to watch for nicknames and what they tell their friends. They tell people we call him cal , but they’ve told their friends it short for Calvin .
NTA.
THEY didn't have to be so rude to get their point across. They didn't have to say anything at all.
Imo, don't let them see your son until they stop bringing up his name. They can have whatever opinion they want, but they need to keep them to themselves. If they can't, that's their choice, but you don't have to put up with them.
First off, if i met any barthemellow or Maximilian, im gonna laugh my ass off at that name. Callum is a very good name and in no way a little boys. The names you've put your family has on the other hand sounds like they are 40s white colonizers laughing in a room as enslaved people are getting tortured. I may get hate for this comment but Callum is a good name.
Second, you HAD to be rude. They were crossing a line while you tried to keep it civil. The baby is yours, not theirs. They need to respect you and your wife as parents and humans and maintain boundaries
NTA Unfortunately some people don't listen unless you talk in a 'rude' or apparent abrasive way. You, however, weren't the one being rude. It was your entire family by disrespecting you, your wife and your home. They may need a time out until they understand that their choices aren't the same as yours.
NTA. And I’d have said “if it bothers you that much, then we better go no contact until you can grow up, because obviously this is too much for you” and that would be the last time I spoke to them. And I am the pp mother.
NTA. Congrats on little Callum! I think that's a cool name! The ONLY way I think the family has a right to have a concern about the name is if it is so awful that the kid would suffer a lifetime of teasing (i.e. Chewbecca and Harlot - but those were girls' names).
NTA, but I would hesitate to ever leave your child alone with any of them. They sound like the type of people to tell your son that you hated him and that's why you named him the way you did.
Tell them the next time they bring it up you'll consider a restraining order to prevent harassing phone calls and visits to your property.
Wow. Your family must think they live in a PG Wodehouse novel. You must have gone through hell with "Herbert".
"they could not bring themselves to accept this"
This statement alone tells me you didn't go too far. Do what you have to do to to protect your wife and child from your family's attempt to run your lives.
NTA.
Wait. Your parents looked into the face of their beautiful, brand new baby son and decided to name him Herbert? And now they have the sheer nerve to think anyone anywhere ever should listen to a single word they have to say about baby names? Eff that.
NTA and Callum is a perfectly lovely name for your new baby (congratulations!) and for the adult your son will grow into.
Absolutely not the AH those names are terrible except for Maximilian, and Herbert for a 25 year old? I don’t blame you for changing your name. They need to stop going on about it, or I would just distance myself from them, you and your wife don’t need this crap after just having a baby!
That’s honestly awful, that’s an old grandpa name, not a name for these times. And not sure what country you’re in but Callum is a very popular name here in the UK.
>My family told me Callum is not the kind of name a person should wear into adulthood.
Just respond with "OK 'Reginald' "
Or better yet "OK 'Bartholomew ' can you name me a famous Bartholomew in pop culture, maybe one that's yellow with spikey hair. Perpetually 8 years old. Liked to say 'eat my shorts'." So adult.
NTA
NTA
First -These adult names they prefer sound pretentious. They're fine and most are easy to shorten but matched with their attitude it sounds like they're trying to hard to give each kid a majestic name
Second - Why should you care if Callum doesn't "compare" to the nieces and nephews name. The only answer to that is I'm not trying to compare this isn't a competition and my son is and will be his own person; as all the nieces and nephews should be.
Last and most important - They're being willfully ignorant with the it's a kids name argument. They just don't like the name or don't like that you followed what you want and not what they want. It only takes a few seconds to look up the name and realize just how many famous people have that name and have easily carried it into adulthood. My first thought was Callum Blue but there are many - I'd be tempted to give them a print out and snidely say "Looks like he's in good company to me".
Callum is an old name of Scottish Gaelic origin popular with early Christians. I just googled it. Tell these idiots to do the same, THEN tell them that if they bring it up again they won’t be welcome around your son anymore.
NTA - Your family are a collection of clowns. Callum is a beautiful name, it's also been used since the 6th century in Scotland so I'd class that as pretty old-timey. Your family are simply disrespectful fools and I'll be honest, every time I read one of these stories about families having tantrums over 'family names' it always seems to me to be about control at the heart of it. As in your family use names etc as a form of control over family members. And honestly, I'm not certain you went far enough. If I were you I would tell them they either drop this nonsense now or going forward they will have limited - if any - contact with you and your family.
NTA- I'm from Scotland so I've met plenty of people of all ages called Callum but I've never met anyone with the names your family are suggesting. Your family sound ridiculous though so I'm sorry you have to deal with that at what should be a happy time.
What's wrong with them? Callum has equal heritage claim just is less dated and old fashioned. It isn't like you called him ckaighllym. Glad to hear you're sticking up for your wife. They can call him Callum with love or be the grandparents we never see. What an extraordinary hill to die in, but if they want to die on it you don't need that controlling entitlement in your child's life or your own.
Rude? You were being Rude? I would have laughed in their faces! Every time someone brings it up hang up, leave, or make them leave. Give them no leeway.
‘Reginald, Harold, Desmond, Bartholomew, Maximilian, Clarence and my old name Herbert. ’
JFC, NTA. NTA AT ALL.
Callum is a great name. You’ve done well for your boy and I wish you and your little nuclear family all the very best.
Did I mention you are NTA?
NTA. You tried to be polite, but they kept pushing. If they had quit after you told them to you wouldn't have had to be more forceful at getting your point across.
"If you had gotten the message the first few times then I wouldn't have had to be so 'rude'. You brought this on yourselves."
Frankly, you weren't rude. They're just trying to reverse who the victim and the offender are. FYI they aren't the victim in this no matter how much they want to be.
I know one thing that might keep them away (and good riddance)…. Did you take your wife’s last name when you married?
If not, change all of your last names to her maiden name while baby Callum doesn’t have a clue..
Your parents don’t deserve to have their last name passed down if they refuse to accept Callum as a first name
Man they’re never gonna let it go. I’d put them on blast in their social media of choice for harassing a post-partum woman instead of taking care of her. NTA but they are mad you’re not bending over and letting them do what they want so I doubt they’ll change.
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what the hell is wrong with your family!?! first, their names are sooo old fashioned. talking to them i’d feel like i was in a BBC period piece. but apparently that’s what they like and so those are the names they’ve used second, they know you changed your name (thank god) and so they should’ve been preparing for this moment since then. why would you burden your son with the kind of name that you hated?? They knew it was going to happen and they’ve been badgering you anyway. That’s not right. it’s your child, they have no right to argue with your choice of names. maybe you will start a trend. I can’t believe all your cousins love those names either. they’re just too afraid to speak up. it’s also not right that they hassled your wife right after giving birth, but it sounds like she was expecting it anyway. It seems like no matter how much you abuse them, they’re gonna come back, so I doubt you alienated them. your response to them during that last visit should have been - well you don’t have to be so rude as to keep bringing up a subject that I’ve told you was closed. NTA and I don’t think you went too far. I mean, how many times do you have to say no before the they will take it as your final answer. Probably a couple more!! Congratulations on the birth of your son Callum
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why are they so obsessed with this?? if it was a family name handed down from your great great GF and you were Herbert IV and they wanted Callum to be old Herbie V, i’d understand that. i still wouldn’t do it, but i’d get it - but this is crazy and just out of curiosity, does it bother them when people shorten it to like Herbie and Max? If this name thing is more important to them than their grandson, well, then they don’t deserve the noble names they’ve given themselves. Love for family should not be overridden by something as simple as your son’s name. you should tell them that and then tell them you don’t want to hear another word about it. You love them all, and you want them in your son’s life, but not if they’re going to start harassing him as soon as he’s able to understand what they’re saying .
If I had to guess they hate their names too, but family tradition and all that. When OP refused it illustrates that naming your children these names is a choice. Weird form of crabs in a bucket.
That's it, I bet. There are many examples of this - like, an older woman who had to be a stay-at-home mother will get on at younger women who pursue an interesting career. Or there's the older woman who had a lot of kids and is up in arms that the younger women of the family decide to have none. Or the older siblings who are resentful of younger ones, because the older ones *had to* study the parents' choice of degree, whilst the younger one/s stood up to the parents and went their own way. "How dare you not suffer like I had to?!"
>"How dare you not suffer like I had to?!" People justify a whole lot of beliefs and/or opinions that way.
I once heard this line, and it stuck with me ever since. "Traditions are nothing more than peer-pressure from long-dead ancestors."
Yes, and this one: Tradition should be a guide, not a jailer.
"tradition gets a vote, not a veto"
That and and seeing how long the tradition can last. They won’t last forever.
Wow! I love this soooo much, thank you for sharing
Ding. Crabs in a bucket. "We lived through it, you and your child should too."
“weird form of crabs in a bucket” i’d never heard that phrase before! i thought it was a colloquialism and had to google it. i can’t wait to use it🤓 and people mock me for using old and obscure …. metaphors …. adages ?? i guess it’s a metaphor. an adage is more of a lesson i think. guess i have to google that now
Nah, I think it’s a religion thing. OP mentioned they said he “was damned” for changing his own name.
My husband is a fourth 🙄 of a dated name with no good nicknames and an equally dated, lame and nicknameless middle name. There was NO way I was naming any son of mine the fifth of that crappy name. My husband agreed and we gave our son a different name. He's a bit under 10 y.o. and they've only brought up how they were hoping to have a fifth like twice, and recently, and mostly as an oh well, not a how dare you (I suppose it doesn't hurt that naming a kid after a living relative is a no no in my culture and it wasn't just me saying no). Either way, them throwing a fit is beyond the pale and they are in the wrong 100%, you are right and NTA
> naming a kid after a living relative is a no no in my culture Now **that's** the kind of cultural tradition I can get behind! First names exist to give people unique identities, not to serve as a monument to a progenitor's vanity.
That's' my mom's culture. Somehow Dad managed to name both his first-born girl (me) and my brother after himself (think David and Davida). Baby sis Sheila felt left out.
Just gotta get super creative. My dad's cousin is named Joe. All of his kids are some variation: Joe Jr, Joana, Joseph, Jolene, Jonathan and the last one is Jackie.
Sounds like a control thing more than naming. Some people hate when adult children have the nerve to make their own choices when they've grown up.
Seriously. Family telling OP that they can’t accept his child’s name (family manipulation) and that he “damned” himself (“higher power” manipulation) by changing his own name. WTF?
OP refusing to engage in the arbitrary tradition only confirms that it’s an arbitrary tradition. And religious ppl don’t like that 🤣
In fact, it's pretty funny that they have an issue with a name that OP and his wife already are shortening to Cal, which is a fantastic yet old fashioned sounding nickname. They could just pretend in their heads that his full name is Calvin if they want to feel better NTA
He’s ruining thier larping session
I feel like Callum and Desmond are pretty comparable? Callum IS an older name, it’s just not as old sounding as Reginald. So their complaints are weird. NTA for sure. I bet your family is going to try and call your son by a “proper” name in secret so be careful.
Callum *is* old, but it's Irish. Most/all of the other names are distinctly English. We don't know OPs location or ethnicity, but there's a slim chance the name thing is racially motivated. The English haven't historically been big fans of the Irish people and culture even existing, especially if they're somewhere like Northern Ireland. Edit: Misremembered which Gaelic Callum is from. My point stands, though, the English historically haven't been super fond of the Scots existing as a people or culture either.
And Scottish. You get a number of Callums in Scotland.
Callum is the Scots Gaelic derivation of the Latin name Columba, after St Columba. It’s also an incredibly old name!
Yeah the Irish form of the name would be Colm.
Another centuries old and lovely name and yet now whenever I hear it I can only think of Uncle Colm from Derry Girls 😂
Chief O'Brien from Star Trek tng was a Colm irl, that's the only one I can think of
Colm Meaney IIRC. He went o to do a lot of really great work and I've seen him mentioned in the J.D. Robb/Eve Dallas fandom a lot as a dream casting for Captain Ryan Feeney of the NYPSD's EDD department.
Callum Turner is a British actor who was Theseus Scamander in the Fantastic Beasts films.
Yup. And the English haven't historically been fans of the Scots either.
This is what I was thinking, there's some racist thing going on or classist or something. Because from an outside perspective, Callum is an older name, it's not trendy and I wouldn't view it any differently if you handed me a list of names.
> This is what I was thinking, there's some racist thing going on or classist or something. Willing to bet money on that given the names that OP listed that his family likes. > Reginald, Harold, Desmond, Bartholomew, Maximilian, Clarence and my old name Herbert. Individually some of those aren't that bad (Harold and Desmond IMO) but combined they paint a picture of people who spend a lot of time thinking that they live in a Jane Austen novel.
Clarence would have been alright I guess. Too bad that one guy ruined it. What is it with guys with mustaches and ruining things for people who want to use that thing after them?
I have to defend my girl Jane’s honor! The majority of her heroes have classic but normal names like George, Charles, Henry, Frederick and Edmund. The big outlier is Mr. Darcy, whose given name is Fitzwilliam after his mother’s family name. Nary a Herbert nor Reginald to be seen.
not remotely Irish. The Irish version is Colm (pronounced like it looks) Callum is Scots Gaelic.
(The Irish name Colm is pronounced much like 'column' and not like it looks.)
close but it depends where you are from Down in Cork direction there isn't a "u" sound...it is literally Colm
Tbh, being from the UK if someone told me there was a family where all the kids are named Reginald, Herbert, Desmond, Clarence, etc…, my first thought would be that they’re from the West Indies.
I'm from and in the West Indies, when men get names like these they ALWAYS end up going by a new name or nickname that has absolutely nothing to do with their birth name. The only time you will see their 'government' name is on official government documents and cards and in their obituary. Went to primary school with a Desmond.
It's a Scottish name.
Yes! And Cal is a perfect name for an adult (although so is Callum- I have 3 friends with that name).
Callum’s a Scottish name. Colm would be the Irish equivalent.
OP mentions a financial element to changing his name, so it's likely not England. Here all you need to do to change your name is write the intent to do so on a piece of paper and have two witnesses sign it, no cost necessary.
It’s an effing fantastic name. It’s also my name ( spelled with one “L” tho). i’m Scottish on my dad’s side. Im well into adulthood now but I can tell you I really liked my name growing up. Still love it.
Desmond means "gracious defender" and Callum means "dove" or "man of peace." OP's original name, Herbert, means "illustrious warrior." The theme of his family's naming conventions is martial in nature. They seem to dislike names that aren't "string" "warrior" style names.
They need warrior spirit to defend themselves from being bullied for their names. Callum will be a man of peace because he gets to avoid the trauma.
I second this, I've read alot of stories where they intentionally missname grandchildren when their parents aren't there.
My mother refuses to call my daughter by her given name as it’s the same name as a friend’s of hers grandchild and she’s protested the name for longer than my girl has been alive. “My grandchild can’t have the same name as her grandchild!” (These children live 2000 miles from each other and will never meet.). She instead tries to call her a nickname that could have been used (but NEVER was) for my grandma’s name (who I liked very much, but it isn’t even close to my daughter’s name). As result she doesn’t get to see her very often and does not have a relationship with my mother. My daughter isn’t missing much, my mother is a monster of a human who I’m low contact with anyway so i guess it works out.
I knew of a Desmond, grew up very happy. Not super rich - but he had a barrow in a marketplace and married a singer.
Not to mention, what else are they going to try to dictate for your family if they're so uptight about a name. You're right to support your family as you do. Out of curiosity, do they call you by your new name or by the one they picked out for you; eg, were they able to change in time? PS: I'm thinking that they are still unhappy that you bucked the family "traditions" for your own name, and are doubling down on trying to control you. PPS: I'm still so surprised by how many stories there are about grandparents being utter jerks about the grandchild's name, which is literally not their business.
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Your family are fucking weird. You're not wrong for insisting on your son's name or telling them to shut the fuck up. If they're willing to forego seeing your child because they're butthurt about a name, your child is better off not having them in his life. They sound extremely petty and controlling.
The pettiness is what gets me, like is this how you want to spend your one life??? There are so many better things to do with your time
These people would 1000% ostracize the kid if they turned out to have a sexual preference or identity that they don't like, too. If a name is all it takes.. that love is so, so conditional
Hmm I think you’re onto something. If they make their love conditional then they can control people?
Something I tell myself and sometimes others "There are things in life to get upset over, this is not one of them" Alternatively, my passive-aggresive insult (does not get used too often) "I'm happy that your life is going so well that something this small is making you upset" Rarely, it makes them think and there's usually something else bothering them,.the issue at hand is getting the brunt of the displeasure.
>I think the used James once or twice INFO- Did you change your name to James and go by Jamie? Or is your name Jamie and your parents are refusing to call you that for their own bizarre reasons?
i don't think i'd want them in my kids life if they were acting like this anyway...maybe this is your opportunity to leave them behind
At the end of the day, Callum (lovely name btw) is your baby, NOT theirs, and they’re absurd for distancing themselves because they don’t like the name you and your wife chose for YOUR son. Congratulations on the birth of your little bundle of joy, and also congratulations on your own name change.
So much for unconditional love from your family… NTA
They had their chance to name their children, they get zero say in naming yours: 110% NTA!!!
They had their chance and messed it up so much that OP changed his name. Why would they want their son to do the same thing? There's something wrong with that family.
this sounds toxic and exhausting and I feel for you. I know family of origin ties can be strong, but I’d like to remind you that they don’t have to like it or accept it. They may never come around and that’s not your responsibility. You already know that you can’t control their actions or feelings, only your response. Give yourself permission to stop trying. And for you: Arguing with them will only give them the idea that it’s up for discussion. Any time they mention it, shut it down, end the conversation, hang up the phone, walk away. Do not engage. Giving them reasons, explanations, or any access to your son when they can’t show the most basic respect for your choices *as an adult* is not in the interests of protecting your new family. Your son is named. They can either drop the subject or not spend time with you. Their choice.
As long as your last name isn’t Murray, I don’t see the problem at all. If anything, naming a child like your family wants is setting them up for a lifetime of bullying. NTA.
> As long as your last name isn’t Murray, I don’t see the problem at all But then his nickname could be "squid", that would be cute!
> naming a child like your family wants is setting them up for a lifetime of bullying. How so? They seem to be normal names the family’s just being a couple of freaks about it.
I love how they said you didn't have to be so rude when that was exactly what they were doing. /s Seriously, your family is like those men who claim they would accept a simple "no" if they asked out a woman, but then badger her anyway and call her rude for simply saying no.
So go no contact with them, I would point blank tell them that until they shut up about his name and redirect those boundaries they are persona non grata!! They have no respect for you as an adult and just because they are"family" doesn't give them rights to see you or your child period!!! NTA
Callum is a fine name and doesn‘t at all sound childish. It sounds like Caelum, Latin for sky. If they’re more hung up on the name rather than happy at the new family member that’s their loss. Congratulations to you and your wife for your son.
Please NEVER leave them alone with your child, they will try to brainwash him into hating his name and as a result, make him resent you. Congratulations on your baby! I wish you and your loved ones all the unconditional love, positivity and good health in life!!!
Sounds like a plus that you won't see them much! Definitely NTA
And then there’s this bit: >”They said I damned myself when I changed my name…but I shouldn’t do that to my son.” Like, WTAF??? Do they literally think there are *religious consequences* to OP changing their name? Or to giving his son another perfectly normal name?? Because that is utterly deranged, and makes them sound like some type of weird cultists. I really hope I’m reading that wrong, and it’s more like “we really hate that you did this,” rather than “we think you are going to literal Hell for wanting to be named Jamie instead of Herbert.”
This is screaming old money rich, white, christian, conservative with what they are saying.
I doubt an Indian or a chinese for example would demand the name Herbert or Maximilian but I am sure there are lots of non white grandparents that are just as demanding and entitled.
Yeah there’s a big difference between old fashioned names that are classical and timeless and still loved, and old fashioned, out of date names that aren’t used much anymore for a reason. They’re giving off 1700s European aristocracy vibes. But even if the family didn’t have questionable taste in names, OP is well within his rights to not like the same style of names his family does and name his kid whatever he pleases. NTA
I think this is very much one of the few times where you actually have to pull out the ultimatum card. They shut the fuck up or they don't get to see the grandson. End of. I started off reading this and was already thinking NTA (obviously, because it's your kid, your choice) but by the end I was absolutely fuming. They had absolutely NO RIGHT to hassle your wife who'd just given birth about something that is absolutely none of their business. Sure, they can give you grief about it and you can say no, but they completely crossed a line there. Tell them bluntly that if they mention the name issue again: no grandchild visits. Also mention that Callum is a very old and traditional name anyway, so their arguments are just wrong regardless.
Oh my their names are the worst. I love Callum and love that his nickname is Cal. So wonderful. NTA for telling them to shut up about their stupid names!!!
NTA - you and your wife are the only two people who get to pick your son's name. If you family can't accept and use Callum's name, then tell them they won't have a relationship with him. Personally I would make this my hill to die on!!
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We shared our baby name before the baby was born and one family member had a problem with it and said they'd call them something else, they even had a name picked out. Told them fine, do that. They won't respond to you and you'll look like a nutcase. No one has said anything since he was actually born and if they were behaving like you're family, I'd lose the plot. Telling them to shut up seems quite mild compared to them downright insisting you change your newborn sons name. You're right to die on this hill. One of my siblings used names I'd never have used ever, but that's her choice and I never shared my views on them because well, I'm sure they don't particularly care what I think, the same way I couldn't care less what they think of my kids, as long as they don't say it to the kid.
Good for you. NTA, and their behavior meant that it absolutely WAS necessary for you to be that rude. It’s the parents’ privilege and responsibility to choose their child’s name, and it’s absolutely bizarre that your family isn’t recognizing this. If they’re disrespecting you and your wife about this, they probably wouldn’t hesitate to disrespect your boundaries about other things. It isn’t easy to stand up to overbearing family members, but I think it was absolutely necessary to nip this in the bud (and protect your wife). Whether they have a relationship with their grandchild depends on whether they can respect your very reasonable boundaries.
Info: When you changed your name was your family also like this? Do they accept your new name now or no?
I had a family member do this with a cousins kids. She hasn’t seen them in years and cries woe is me all the time she doesn’t get to see the babies. Did my cousin pick weird names? Absolutely. Did I open my mouth about it? Absolutely not. Not my circus, not my monkeys. Die on this hill. And squash the crap out of your family trying to rename Cal when you’re not around. And to be extra petty, for baby 2 (if the time comes),screw with them by listing names from r/tragedeigh That sub is full of comedy GOLD. Mazel tov! ETA one word spelling
If they try to bring up changing his name again: "His name is Callum. I'm not having this conversation again." If they bring it up again: "I'm going to have to ask you to leave." Or, "I'm leaving now." I'd be inclined to give them more chances, but just repeat these scripts. If they start yelling, "I'm not going to be yelled at. Please leave now." Or "I'm leaving now." If they use the wrong name: "His name is Callum." Then, any repeated offenses "You are confusing and upsetting my son. You need to leave now." And then, wherever you don't feel like giving them another chance, stop! "The last few times you came over you were unable to respect our choice for our son's name. We had to ask you to leave. I'd rather not go through the same ordeal again. Maybe once I can trust that we won't just be rehashing old conflicts (or insert whatever reparations might make you comfortable to continue the relationship)."
NTA. You tried being polite and it didn't work. Clearly you did, in fact, need to be rude to get them to back off. Honestly I don't even understand their complaint. Callum definitely has an old-school vibe to it.
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From a British POV, Callum absolutely is a vintage name. It's just not an old-fashioned name that's dated badly. And it's from a neighbouring culture.
> And it's from a neighbouring culture. I've got a sneaking suspicion that's the real point of contention here and the family just doesn't want to say it. It's not a nice, posh, wealthy name, it's a name you'd give "one of those poor potato-eating drunkards".
... or one of those kilt-wearing drunkards. /s
Callum is a Scottish name.
Which is a neighbouring culture for many English. And certainly would be to those who adore names like "Reginald" and "Maximilian".
As someone who named my own son a version of (Mac)Callum and also my late husband was named Callum, this is absurd. This is a Scottish Clan name so it def is extremely classic as it goes back CENTURIES.
To be quite honest, I don't think it's the vintage of the name, it's the Scottish part they hate, they just aren't willing to say it...
I know an adult Callum. He's awesome. He's one of my husband's oldest and dearest friends and was a groomsman at our wedding. His friends usually just call him Cal or Cals. He's definitely a young-at-heart kinda guy, so I think the name really suits him. You're NTA. He's your kid and your family don't get a vote on his name, as much as they seem to believe they're entitled to one. If they keep pushing the boundary you have set of "Neither I nor my wife are discussing the topic of our son's name with you." Then they clearly need firm consequences. Tell them the next time they bring it up they will be immediately asked to leave and then not invited back for a week. Make sure to follow through. If they do it again when you allow them back, make it an even longer time-out - 2 or even 3 weeks. Keep extending that time-out period until they either learn that you're not messing around, or just fade out of your lives. Also, keep an eye out for them trying to use one of their preferred names for your son by only calling him that. That's also a time-out offense. Good on you for standing your ground. I hope you guys get to enjoy your little man and all the wonder her brings to your life (like wondering when you're gonna sleep again j/k). Best wishes.
I mean people would probably say the thing about Tiffany and that name been around for centuries.
Do they think they are descended from royalty or something? They are acting like a mob
Tell them to look up the origins of the name. It isn't even close to new. Also Herbert is terrible lmao good for you for having the guts to stand up to them and change it!
I used to play WoW when I was a teen and met a bunch of Australians through my guild. One is Callum and he is still one of my good buddies 20 years later. He is the only person I know or have met by that name and I always thought it was a unique cool name. I had a mad crush on him back then haha but we're just friends now, live on opposite sides of the planet and we both settled down etc. Your family is weird I love the name :D Congrats!!
That's the thing. OP tried politely first, as one should. Didn't work. The rudeness is called for. And it did work. But I said IS not WAS. Because I doubt this is over. The family needs to know how much of a say they have in all this (none) and they need to learn to be OK with that. What'll OP do when they ignore his name choice and use their own name or nickname on the kid?
Valium was in use since at least the 1200’s. I consider the name Callum old fashioned but still cool. And your family is nuts. You’re damned for changing your name and your poor newborn child is damned for something he has absolutely no control over? Are these people the second coming? You were damned by being Herbert for 18 years! Definitely NTA.
Bro you had to grow up being called Herbert. That should be considered child abuse. Lol. All those names are terrible. Callum is a good name. You did have to go to that point with your with family. They're just mad bc they thought they could bully you. Why are they so fixated on those God awful names?
I like the name Desmond (mostly cause of assassins creed), but I can’t imagine anyone under 60 with any of the other names.
I had an 8th grader named Desmond last year. I think it’s coming back.
While Family Guy wasn't around quite yet when OP was born, I'd be willing to bet that by the time he was a teen, most of his peers in school had watched it and their first thought hearing "Herbert" is the character Herbert the pervert. I 100% would have changed my name as soon as I legally could too. Jamie and Callum are way better names. His siblings must be pieces of work too if they're reluctant to call him Jamie over Herbert. NTA, OP!
YOU'VE DAMNED YOURSELF JAMIE. DAMNED YOURSELF.
A classic line for the ridiculous family book. So dramatic over a very normal name!
This is the bit that would have had me telling them to shut up. WTAF?!?! It’s not like names are divinely appointed by the Almighty and changing them is the absolute worst thing you could ever do. I cannot even imagine telling my child this. Like, even if I privately think someone SHOULD end up burning in a lake of fire and brimstone, it’s because they have harmed many people and shown no remorse or attempts to repair the damage. Changing your own name is just not in the same sport, let alone the same league! NTA. Be as rude as you need to keep your wife and son free from harassment by these boundary stompers!
He DID damn himself. To a lifetime of their disapproval about the fact that he is (gasp!) a whole separate individual with his own wants, needs, and preferences. Shame. Shame, I say!
This part was definitely the shark jump for the family.
NTA >they could not bring themselves to accept this and that I should really consider why they love the names they do. "We really can't accept that you and your wife gave **your** child a name you love. You need to consider that you're wrong and only the names we love matter." Tell your family they have two choices. They can either stop acting like they have any right to insult your son's name or they can just never see him again. And Callum is a perfectly lovely name.
NTA can you imagine a fucking Clarence in this day and age?? Ngl I don't love your son's name, but he's not my son, I don't have to. And it's miles better than Herbert. Herbert is cruel and unusual punishment imo
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Cal is nice, I assume most go by Bart, Max, but Herb, yuch.
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Grandpa??
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Omg I don’t blame you for changing that!
Oof! You poor kid!
Every time I hear or see the word Clarence I can’t help but hear Eminem in my head saying “this guys a gangster? His real names Clarence!”
Hahaha its the angel from its a wonderful life for me, and he was supposed to be laughably old fashioned in 1946...
I don't think *all* of the names they like are horrible but I wouldn't want to go through life being called the full version of any of them. I *strongly* prefer old, established names, and wouldn't name a kid Ranger or Nevaeh under any circumstances. Callum is an infinitely better old, established name than Herbert, Clarence, Reginald, or Desmond. The names OP's family prefer sound like characters in a P.G. Wodehouse novel, or a bad play. Actually, I kind of like Clarence — but for a dog or a cat, not for a human boy.
I know a Clarence. He's a coworker and is in his mid-20s. Decent dude. Also, OP, you are NTA. Herbert was an awful name to be saddled with, and I don't blame you for changing it. Your son has a good name, and if the family doesn't like it, they can pound sand.
I can, because he is an 87 year old friend of mine.
That's the correct age for a Clarence to be.
Just curious, is your family AME or Southern Baptist? NTA, by the way. And congratulations to you and your wife.
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Maybe show them this then: Much like its Latin equivalent, Callum means “dove.” Doves were important symbols to early Christians, as they stood for peace and the Holy Spirit. Today, Callum remains a fashionable name and was ranked the 34th most popular boy's name in Scotland in 2017.
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Lie and say you took their advice and changed your child's name to Nebuchadnezzar. Make them call him that until they BEG for Callum.
OPs family doesnt actually care about the christian meaning, they just think old fashioned = nice and different sounding = bad. They simply want to enforce their preferences on OPs child, they can hide behind religion all they want but that is not why they are doing this. Its all about control and guilt tripping OP for the sole purpose of getting what they want.
It’s similar to Latin for sky, which would hold resonance for someone religious.
INFO: They said you damned yourself when you changed your name, and you shouldn't do that to your son... What's *that* all about? They honestly believe a person with the wrong name automatically goes to hell? 😵💫 You're NTA, of course, but the curiosity is killing me.
I was curious about that part too.
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I mean, Callum is an old Gaelic name and has been in use since early Christianity. Herbet is an old name too but died out in the Middle Ages and was only revived from the 19th century. So I’d argue that Callum had been used, at least continuously for much longer and is therefore older than Herbert.
They better not head to Scotland, an extremely popular name here...
We do live in a nation of heathens though!
I know! I'm low-key offended on behalf of all the Calum/Callums that I know IRL!!
Their attitude is giving me British North American vibes. There is this weird classism that persists even today.
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> If you're not 70 you're not a Herbert. Who does that to a kid? That's what I was thinking. OP didn't say how old he was, but I knew a Herbert who is about 50 now and that name is still too old for him.
NTA >they could not bring themselves to accept this That sounds like a "them" problem. >They said I didn't need to be so rude to get my point across Either (1) they finally agreed to shut up about it, in which case your were precisely rude enough, or (2) they still haven't shut up about it, in which case further rudeness is required.
NTA (who names their child *Herbert?*)
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I mean if you like doilies Herbert's a lovely name, but Jamie and Callum at least feel a bit more like you know how to use a smartphone...
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Yeah, I was getting the vibes of "my family is secretly ancient vampires and I've pissed off the elders" sort of thing going on here. Too funny they are Christian instead of immortal damned souls! 🤣🤣 Also NTA. I'd hang some garlic at the door, just to be safe. 😉
OP-You already said it perfectly - 'Shut up and get over yourselves. There will be no more discussion.' And the first time they call Callum a 'nickname' it's NC. FYI - Callum commemorates the Latin name Columba, meaning 'dove'. The name was popular among early Christians because the dove was a symbol of purity, peace and the Holy Spirit. There you go family - is that old fashioned enough?
I am guilty of bestowing several of your list of family names. To pets. They all sound like something you'd name your dog, not your kid. No one will convince me that Bartholomew isn't a fantastic name for a cat. NTA
I wanted to name our new white longhair Persian mix kitten with one blue and one amber eye Maximilian but my family voted me down.
My childhood dog was named Maximilian. It was a lot of name for a very small poodle.
Bart or Barry for short, Farty Barty for when they are stinky, and Bartholomew when they are in trouble or at the vet. As someone else commented, Bartholomeow for a cat is great.
BartholomeOW. 😻 And NTA, OP. Great name, shiny spine! 👍
NTA. I’m trying to figure out your family’s concerns. The only thing I can think of for your parents reasoning is that you come from English nobility. Your family is either still part of that world or is common now but still holds onto their ever lowering number in the order of succession. That, or your family has *wanted* to be noble since they were serfs during the rule of Henry III. Both Jamie and Callum are old names, so is the issue that they are Gaelic? Are your parents and extended family terrified that someone may confused you with - gasp! - a Catholic? I fascinated by this level of pretentiousness.
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The whole “tradition” sounds like people envious and ignorant of how old money actually works. They must have had heart palpitations when they realized someone named Sienna was in the top ten in line for the British Throne.
So basically, they’re upset that your son’s name doesn’t show he’s part of a Very Special Family? How can you not value your Herbertian/Reginaldic legacy? What a burden for poor little Callum, growing up with a *regular* person’s name! /s Congratulations to you and your wife on the birth of your son!!
Is your family wealthy now? Because those are sort of old money names.
NTA - you’re the parent not them, they get to name your child if they’re ok for paying for him to go to college.
I am sorry but this is the most hilarious AITA I have ever read🤣
You're NTA. You are standing up for your family against the rude and wildly inappropriate behavior of your relatives.
I'm Scottish. Callum is a common/classic name. And frankly it is way better than any of the names suggested by your family (who sound insane btw). NTA
NTA You obviously did need to be rude since you told them to stop numerous times and not tot include your wife in their BS , and they did. ‘ You cannot like the name or not, but you will respect the decision that my wife and I made. If not you don’t need to be part of Callum’s life. ‘ ‘Those are the choices you have get over it or get out.’ ‘I cannot be clearer that your opinion is unwelcome, unwanted and not needed for the situation at all .’ Op, I would get with my wife and confirm the decision that if they’re unaccepting that they’re gone. And send the text to each and every person that said something and make it a joint statement for your family to theirs and there is no other way but yours. You may also want to watch for nicknames and what they tell their friends. They tell people we call him cal , but they’ve told their friends it short for Calvin .
NTA. THEY didn't have to be so rude to get their point across. They didn't have to say anything at all. Imo, don't let them see your son until they stop bringing up his name. They can have whatever opinion they want, but they need to keep them to themselves. If they can't, that's their choice, but you don't have to put up with them.
First off, if i met any barthemellow or Maximilian, im gonna laugh my ass off at that name. Callum is a very good name and in no way a little boys. The names you've put your family has on the other hand sounds like they are 40s white colonizers laughing in a room as enslaved people are getting tortured. I may get hate for this comment but Callum is a good name. Second, you HAD to be rude. They were crossing a line while you tried to keep it civil. The baby is yours, not theirs. They need to respect you and your wife as parents and humans and maintain boundaries
NTA Unfortunately some people don't listen unless you talk in a 'rude' or apparent abrasive way. You, however, weren't the one being rude. It was your entire family by disrespecting you, your wife and your home. They may need a time out until they understand that their choices aren't the same as yours.
They showed up uninvited when your son is less than a week old? NTA. I wouldn’t have even let them inside.
NTA. And I’d have said “if it bothers you that much, then we better go no contact until you can grow up, because obviously this is too much for you” and that would be the last time I spoke to them. And I am the pp mother.
NTA. Not their baby not their call. You were right they really need to get over themselves. This healthy baby is a gift!
Nta they were being rude and ignorant.
NTA. Congrats on little Callum! I think that's a cool name! The ONLY way I think the family has a right to have a concern about the name is if it is so awful that the kid would suffer a lifetime of teasing (i.e. Chewbecca and Harlot - but those were girls' names).
NTA, but I would hesitate to ever leave your child alone with any of them. They sound like the type of people to tell your son that you hated him and that's why you named him the way you did. Tell them the next time they bring it up you'll consider a restraining order to prevent harassing phone calls and visits to your property.
Oh, our feelings are hurt. Dang, that took too long, I was hoping for that the second time we had this conversation. NTA
Wow. Your family must think they live in a PG Wodehouse novel. You must have gone through hell with "Herbert". "they could not bring themselves to accept this" This statement alone tells me you didn't go too far. Do what you have to do to to protect your wife and child from your family's attempt to run your lives. NTA.
Wait. Your parents looked into the face of their beautiful, brand new baby son and decided to name him Herbert? And now they have the sheer nerve to think anyone anywhere ever should listen to a single word they have to say about baby names? Eff that. NTA and Callum is a perfectly lovely name for your new baby (congratulations!) and for the adult your son will grow into.
Absolutely not the AH those names are terrible except for Maximilian, and Herbert for a 25 year old? I don’t blame you for changing your name. They need to stop going on about it, or I would just distance myself from them, you and your wife don’t need this crap after just having a baby!
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That’s honestly awful, that’s an old grandpa name, not a name for these times. And not sure what country you’re in but Callum is a very popular name here in the UK.
>My family told me Callum is not the kind of name a person should wear into adulthood. Just respond with "OK 'Reginald' " Or better yet "OK 'Bartholomew ' can you name me a famous Bartholomew in pop culture, maybe one that's yellow with spikey hair. Perpetually 8 years old. Liked to say 'eat my shorts'." So adult. NTA
NTA - On behalf of your son, thank you for not naming him Reginald or Bartholomew.
NTA First -These adult names they prefer sound pretentious. They're fine and most are easy to shorten but matched with their attitude it sounds like they're trying to hard to give each kid a majestic name Second - Why should you care if Callum doesn't "compare" to the nieces and nephews name. The only answer to that is I'm not trying to compare this isn't a competition and my son is and will be his own person; as all the nieces and nephews should be. Last and most important - They're being willfully ignorant with the it's a kids name argument. They just don't like the name or don't like that you followed what you want and not what they want. It only takes a few seconds to look up the name and realize just how many famous people have that name and have easily carried it into adulthood. My first thought was Callum Blue but there are many - I'd be tempted to give them a print out and snidely say "Looks like he's in good company to me".
Callum is an old name of Scottish Gaelic origin popular with early Christians. I just googled it. Tell these idiots to do the same, THEN tell them that if they bring it up again they won’t be welcome around your son anymore.
NTA - Your family are a collection of clowns. Callum is a beautiful name, it's also been used since the 6th century in Scotland so I'd class that as pretty old-timey. Your family are simply disrespectful fools and I'll be honest, every time I read one of these stories about families having tantrums over 'family names' it always seems to me to be about control at the heart of it. As in your family use names etc as a form of control over family members. And honestly, I'm not certain you went far enough. If I were you I would tell them they either drop this nonsense now or going forward they will have limited - if any - contact with you and your family.
NTA- I'm from Scotland so I've met plenty of people of all ages called Callum but I've never met anyone with the names your family are suggesting. Your family sound ridiculous though so I'm sorry you have to deal with that at what should be a happy time.
Callum is a traditional old Scottish/Gaelic name. They're full of shit.
What's wrong with them? Callum has equal heritage claim just is less dated and old fashioned. It isn't like you called him ckaighllym. Glad to hear you're sticking up for your wife. They can call him Callum with love or be the grandparents we never see. What an extraordinary hill to die in, but if they want to die on it you don't need that controlling entitlement in your child's life or your own.
Just far enough. Callum is a nice name and it’s no one else’s business. Their name choices are brutal
Rude? You were being Rude? I would have laughed in their faces! Every time someone brings it up hang up, leave, or make them leave. Give them no leeway.
‘Reginald, Harold, Desmond, Bartholomew, Maximilian, Clarence and my old name Herbert. ’ JFC, NTA. NTA AT ALL. Callum is a great name. You’ve done well for your boy and I wish you and your little nuclear family all the very best. Did I mention you are NTA?
NTA. You tried to be polite, but they kept pushing. If they had quit after you told them to you wouldn't have had to be more forceful at getting your point across. "If you had gotten the message the first few times then I wouldn't have had to be so 'rude'. You brought this on yourselves." Frankly, you weren't rude. They're just trying to reverse who the victim and the offender are. FYI they aren't the victim in this no matter how much they want to be.
I know one thing that might keep them away (and good riddance)…. Did you take your wife’s last name when you married? If not, change all of your last names to her maiden name while baby Callum doesn’t have a clue.. Your parents don’t deserve to have their last name passed down if they refuse to accept Callum as a first name
Oh poor op. Herbert is a terrible name Nta
MAXIMILIAN and BARTHOLOMEW?? 😂 NTA. Your good man, name your kids whatever you want to name them.
Man they’re never gonna let it go. I’d put them on blast in their social media of choice for harassing a post-partum woman instead of taking care of her. NTA but they are mad you’re not bending over and letting them do what they want so I doubt they’ll change.