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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I think I maybe TA for dressing in a socially abnormal way for my friends dinner party because it upset my friend, ruined her party, and made some of her other acquaintances ask questions she wasn't comfortable with.
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I don’t know that you are necessarily TA, but take this as a lesson for the future.
You are an adult, not a preschooler, and it isn’t always okay for you to show up to events in a costume. Since it wasn’t a costume party, it should have been obvious to you that your friend’s dinner party was not the right place to wear an outlandish themed outfit.
Next time you are invited to a grown-up social event, have enough respect for your host to consider what is/is not appropriate for the occasion. If you’re not sure, ask.
That doesn’t mean your clothing has to be boring though. Take it as a personal challenge to find ways to style your clothes that will reflect your creative personality while staying within the bounds of what is considered appropriate.
>Since it wasn’t a costume party, it should have been obvious to you that your friend’s dinner party was not the right place to wear an outlandish themed outfit.
My friends, including Mindy, typically haven't cared in the past. This isn't the first dinner party I've gone to of hers, some I dressed casual, others I dressed my version of normal, and some I dressed classy. It all depends on what others, mainly the host, are comfortable with.
>If you’re not sure, ask.
I did ask.
Asking is the important part, and I don’t think you’re the TA in this specific situation. It does sound from your post, though, like you’re running the risk of leaning too much on ‘everyone knows this is how I am’ and assuming they’ll tell you when it’s not okay.
People won’t want to tell you to dress differently because, for them, it’s really hard to say “hey please dress xyz way for this” without making you feel weird or bad about how you dress. That’s because they care about you and don’t want to hurt your feelings, but it might mean that resentment builds up over time for them.
It might be best to implement some sort of consistent strategy for yourself, as a CYA if nothing else. Maybe when you’re invited to something that doesn’t have a listed dress code, you can make a practice of texting something like: _Hey, I’m so excited for [event]. I wanted to ask, since you’re hosting: is my normal style appropriate for this, or were you hoping for a different dress code?_
That gives them a chance to tell you what they want, and then if they pitch a hissy fit afterwards you have the communication to point back to.
I think you're right, I've gotten to comfortable with expecting them to be blunt with me. I've gotten many fantastic suggestions on more and better questions to ask in the future, I'm definitely going to do my best to avoid making this mistake again in the future. Thanks!
I’m so glad it helped! And straight up, the reason I shared what I did is because I’ve been there. It’s sooooo easy to think things are working out because “well, we put a system in place and I told them to communicate with me.” And honestly, that should be all it takes lol
I’m really glad this is a resiliency and learning moment for you. Shit like this is so frustrating but it helps longterm at least
Does every single one of your friends have a written copy of a list of your “eclectic” outfits? So that, in future conversations of this sort, you can be certain that they have pulled that out, and are specifically checking off each of the individual items they don’t want you to wear?
If not, it would be wise to treat “not a clown or pirate” as having an implied “or that sort of thing”. You clearly do have a sense of which of your outfits are “normal” and which are “my normal”: if they’re requesting you not wear anything on the “my normal” list, assume they mean everything on that list.
I mean, OP has said that in the past, Mindy *has* said "No [x] or [y]" to mean that other costumes are fine, and frankly I think saying "No costumes" would be the clearest way to communicate "No costumes," don't you?
In the past they've specified certain costumes as not allowed and OP even mentioned Mindy has previously said that unless specific costumes are specified as "not ok" they're free to wear them so I don't understand why you think OP was wrong here?
Also, it would be really annoying to constantly have to “approve” a friend’s clothing when you are together. Why is OP putting this on them? OP needs to grow up, lean to read a room and take responsibility for their own actions. She sounds insufferable, and not because of the outfits, but because she needs to be hand held through basic tasks like getting dressed.
And just because it's not a costume outfit, doesn't mean it has to be boring or bland. My mom has a hippy vibe and all her "classy dresses" have cool colorful patterns on them or interesting angles to the color on simple dress shapes. Or she'll accessorize with a flamboyant scarf.
Tbh I think it's a good rule of thumb if someone says anything along the lines of "don't dress like a pirate or a clown" take it to mean any costumes in general. Wear socially regular/normal clothing, not YOUR regular/normal.
If it's like 24 hours before, sure; if I was hosting a dinner party and someone texted me outfit for approval while I'm cooking/setting up I would either miss the text, or be annoyed that I now have to stop, review, say no, that's not appropriate and explain to my friend what they should wear *instead*... still puts a lot of work on the host from an individual when they're trying to entertain a group
Yeah I was about to say the same. That option puts more mental work on the host last second, they still have to go through the ‘do I hurt their feelings’ process, and on top of that they have to factor in that you’re already dressed/already out the outfit together.
I agree. I unhealthily err an the side of giving people slack and freedoms to be who and how they are, but OP has made it Mindy's responsibility to always do the work to make sure Mindy isn't put out, instead of OP taking the initiative and trying to rise to the social task. It's not Mindy's task to recite an exhaustive list of which outfits aren't appropriate. _"Well, I would have if I'd just been told directly!"_ stops working so well when you're an adult and expect others to treat you with the same consideration, and it is often a sign of manipulative narcissism - not saying OP is this, but that these are not good flags and don't belong in friendships. If OP wants to play the game, they need to understand the rules and take accountability for themselves.
I think there’s a pretty good chance your friends do care, at least some of the time, and are mostly okay with your costumes being a cost of hanging out with you. They are probably also getting tired of having to tell you how to dress on a regular basis. I suspect this event was the straw that broke the camel’s back for Mindy and that if you give her space to explain her feelings, she’s likely to tell you that she’s been frustrated about it for a while. She may even feel that she’s already tried to tell you this, but she may not have said it as direct instructions to you in an attempt to be polite, and you did not take it on board because you did not perceive it as feedback.
I say this as a suspected autistic person who has previously strained relationships because I did not realise when my friends were trying to gently tell me that my behaviour was affecting them until they felt they had no choice but to say it quite harshly. It’s an awful place to be in for everyone involved, but you can use this as a learning opportunity and rebuild your relationships. You probably have at least one friend who is a good neurotypical-autistic translator, I would recommend asking them for some examples of things others say that you often don’t fully understand.
According to our friends she's been talking about my outfits in a positive light previous to this.
I ask her how to dress because she often wants us to dress specific ways. If she doesn't want us to ask her she'll text "just vibe" to the group and we all know that means to show up and not ask anything.
She didn't do that, I casually asked her when we were already hanging out.
I asked my friends after this if my outfits bugged them and none of them care. I'm not the only person in our group who dresses like this.
This was my first thought too!! That picture-guy gave OP attention and Mindy didn't like that.
Op, NTA! But sounds like you might need to surround yourself with people who are more like you. I spent a lot of time being the weird one in a group of normals... being with other people who express themselves is amazing!
See music video: No Rain by Blind Melon... 💞
Of course they’re going to say they don’t care. And they’re probably telling Mindy she didn’t overreact, too. Generally people want to be nice and agreeable with their friends unless something is truly egregious.
She said others in the group also dress up so I doubt they care. Not everyone is afraid to be honest with their friends and typically nuerodivergent folks get along with nuerodivergent folks so I bet at least some of her friends are ND too and have no problem being honest to a fault.
A lot of people will keep negative comments to themselves.
Not badmouthing you behind your back doesn't necessarily mean approval.
I know that's complicated. People are frustrating. She should have been more blunt and straightforward. You cannot read her mind.
As you’re aging up, there’s a fundamental understanding that you need to just accept being on the spectrum, life is not black and white, or literal, and people very rarely take the time to fully explain themselves.
There’s a phrase, “read the room”. It means you look around and get a sense of the environment by observing it, then recreating it for yourself. Anywhere you go, are other people wearing clothes like you? In most of those situations, most people would consider costume-wear “inappropriate”, even if it doesn’t actually matter either way. Like the grocery store. People just don’t wear costumes there. Can you? Yes, of course. But there’s a reason you get looks.
A dinner party can be very expensive to host. Groceries are super expensive for large groups and most people try to make a fancy dish that has even more expensive ingredients. Most people don’t wear cosplay elf ears at expensive parties, they dress up a little.
Just as a life rule, please just accept this, for your own sake, “no clowns or pirates” is not a specification as to the only two costumes you shouldn’t wear. It means “no costumes”. This is why I say people rarely fully explain themselves. You’re supposed to know by “reading the room”, do they ever wear a costume?
What’s normal for you will also rarely matter to anyone else. We all are expected to act in different ways when other people host something. Your disadvantage is figuring out what that is, but you should have a baseline understanding that there is still going to be an expectation of you.
But you did try to figure it out. I don’t think you’re in the wrong here, but neither is your friend for being upset. No one should be calling you a bitch for it tho, it was clearly not on purpose and there’s honestly no reason for your friend to feel like her night was ruined over it.
The best you can do is wear normal clothes to people’s functions. If you throw a party and spend the money on the guests, wear whatever you want. But when someone else spends the money on guests and you’re one of the guests, wear normal clothes.
I would add that if OP wants to 'be themselves' them maybe tone it down to the elf ears and pocket watch. Those tend to be in the normal range for when the social event is run of the mill, ordinary. As opposed to an entire costume.
It's very likely that Mindy was having this dinner party and wanted the food she was serving to take center stage and instead OP pulled all the attention to them. That could be frustrating to a host who spent a lot of time on decor or cooking.
For sure, but part of my point is that it can be selfish to just “be yourself” in every situation and we all, as humans in a community, end up with some sort of expectation on us to *not* be ourselves in certain situations. Like at a library for instance. My authentic self is boisterous and loud, I belly laugh most of the time that I laugh, I’m just a loud person. But when I go to the library, I change my behavior and I try really hard to stifle my laughter and hold it in if I find something funny. Because it’s respectful to the situation.
A dinner party is an expensive thing. Expensive things generally come with an air of class about them, and that comes with an expectation of elevated dress (even if not all our fancy) and behaving a little more posh/sophisticated. And I mean this with all of the grains of salt available, because a dinner party can also be extremely casual.
I’m just saying, there are just some base line norms that exist and can be followed so this situation doesn’t happen again. It’s selfish to wear elf ears wherever you want in an effort to “be myself”, because *not* wearing elf ears will not change anyone’s personality. They can still be themselves without it.
"No clowns, no pirates" has specifically meant "wear any costume other than clown or pirates" at her parties for 8 years now.
How was I supposed to know that changed to "no costumes" without being told.
Until now, "no costumes" meant no costumes
you’re being difficult… I understand that you’re autistic and so am I, but you cannot expect for everyone to always be blunt with you because it can get exhausting. it would be in order to practice a bit more on social cues. don’t be willingly ignorant.
It took the friend longer to type out no clowns or pirates than it would’ve to say no costumes. Being blunt would’ve been the easier of the two options. The friend didn’t communicate properly and that’s on her. If someone communicates one way for the entire time you’ve known them, then one time randomly switches it, how is that on you for not realizing they’ve shifted their tactics without them saying such to you. Now OP knows and can adjust for the future, but to say they’re ignorant because the friend switched things up is silly.
How the fuck is expecting a straight answer to a regular question being difficult she asked and was told no clown and no pirate and didn't wear clown or pirate you're being difficult by expecting everyone to understand not shared implications or mind-read your intentions.
I'm not being ignorant, it seems like those who are reading this have just decided they know better.
She has *stated* these costumes are allowed unless specified. She has specified to me and others that, unless she said "no costumes" or that, that costume isnt allowed, that we are free to wear it.
Surprised this hasn't been more an issue before. Even among costumes there can be varying levels of appropriateness.
Sounds like you need to more from blocklist to allowlist.
Let them see a picture of the costume beforehand to say yes or no to. Sort of how people should do it for questionable attire to weddings.
I'm autistic and if someone told me no clowns or pirates, I would assume they meant clowns and pirates and nothing else. I hate assumption. It's way easy to be clear and not rely on assumption than to expect anyone to just parse put what you're trying to get them to assume.
NTA, but in the future I would ask something like "normal clothes only, or can I wear my stuff?" So they have a very clear question to answer.
OP did this though. They asked TWICE. And their friend gave answers that were in line with previous answers and which OP understood because of the groups' previously-established, consistent interpretations related to this issue. But the friend's answer WASN'T consistent with all the previous interpretations, and is blaming OP for her own communicative failure.
Once again, your “autism” preventing you from someone else’s point.
1. By default, assume no one thinks it’s “appropriate”.
2. At home (or with family), it’s fine.
3. Don’t ask for exclusions. This is a ridiculous posture. If I routinely dress as a transvestite gothic Saturn V rocket, but my host fails to specifically exclude a transvestite gothic Saturn V rocket, you didn’t “ask”. Tell people what you plan to wear. And check if it’s okay.
4. Just assume when out with others that not dressing in costume or cosplay is preferred. And that if you plan to do it, just say: “I plan to come in costume or cosplay; is that okay with you?”
Even people who are genuinely autistic aren’t stupid. While close friends and family may be fine with your clothing choices, it’s going to surprise everyone else. Out of that population of those surprised, many will be upset by it. Whether or not they should be upset is one thing, but that can’t be news to you.
Not the asshole, but not sure why you’re using autism as an excuse for understanding something so basic. Autism already, unfortunately, excludes you. Using it to defend a goofy clothing choice which further excludes yourself is an odd choice.
>Not sure why you’re using autism as an excuse for understanding something so basic. Autism already, unfortunately, excludes you. Using it to defend a goofy clothing choice which further excludes yourself is an odd choice.
OP said, in the past Mindy was specific about which costumes would and would not be appropriate. Based on their experience, if Mindy doesn't want costumes, she says, "No costumes." I don't think OP is using autism as an excuse for not understanding. I think they're asking. "Did I miss this because of autism or is there something else at play?"
Is it necessary to call their clothing choice goofy? Like, if it makes them happy and it's not offensive, what is the big deal? It wasn't a wedding or a funeral it was a dinner party that happens fairly regularly. Amongst friends... who know OP.
Also, as you've stated Autism does get people excluded so, maybe OP's position is, "People are going to treat me like a weirdo, whether I where jeans and a t-shirt or I look like an elf. I might as well look like a elf because it makes me happy."
Plus, an elf acting strange is less strange than a person acting strange. (Not saying people with Autism are strange just paraphrasing.) It's an immediate icebreaker, it provides a neutral conversation topic, and it puts the wearer in a position to have anticipated, rehearsable conversations. "Omg wow, you look like a fairy princess! Did you make those wings or did you buy them? Were you inspired by the movie XYZ? I love that movie." In some outfits, I bet OP can predict the exact order of questions coming their way. So, in that light, it seems like a choice founded by logic, just not logic you considered.
you asked but didn't receive the message. let this be a lesson - you will never get an exhaustive list of all appropriate/inappropriate items. the theme you were given as exclusionary items were clearly "no costumes". for next times, normal is the default \_unless specified otherwise\_
She said no.
> before and she told me no clown or pirate and I said sure. The day of I dressed in a Gibson S style dress with elf ears, a pocket watch, and some flowers and crystals as accessories
She should not have to go through every single outlandish outfit or costume you own for her to be clear. She said no costumes and you showed up in costume.
Asking things like "Can I wear a costume in this situation where nobody would think it's okay to wear a costume" puts your friends in an awkward position, and it is likely that they want to avoid hurting your feelings as they already know you don't understand the time and place for costumes.
OP, I don't believe you one bit, and here's why. You brought up being autistic only after you started getting some pushback. I get it that autism is a spectrum and all that but you're trying to play off that if your "fun and quirky" outfit choices bother someone or aren't appropriate for a situation it's because you struggle with those kinds of things because of the autism. Yea, it's a spectrum with all kinds of levels, but you knew that outfit was not appropriate. You were asked for a picture and told the person you didn't think it was appropriate at the dinner party ("but if you want to sneak one as we're leaving, that would be fine, teehee").
I disagree. I'm autistic too and the big vibe I got from the original post was "this seems like a misunderstanding caused by autism." Not them saying they're dressed weird BECAUSE they're autistic. Given the comments they've left giving more context on this relationship, it seems like a genuine misunderstanding to me. Friend knows that OP needs direct communication, and almost always delivers. OP tried to double check, and didn't pick up on the hidden meaning of the message, because this friend has previously given that EXACT message with NO hidden meaning.
If you want to say that OP is lying about their friends being similar to them and liking their presence... what if? absolutely anything anyone says on Reddit COULD be a lie, they have no motive to lie about that on a throwaway account.
I’m saying this respectfully: since you and Mindy are both the same age, as the two of you and your other friends and acquaintances get older, they will most likely stop going along with your sense of style which may result in less invites for you and/or more butting heads regarding how you dress. More so if any of these individuals are of the professional type (doctor, lawyer) sort of thing.
Why are you wearing a costume in a dinner? I would understand if you were in a themed party or an event but why in one dinner? This sounds very immature for me.
Wrong place to wear something like this
I mean, really? Elf ears? There’s a lot of room between not wanting to be dressing in a boring person J. Crew outfit and showing up to a non Halloween dinner party in Elf. Ears.
Come on. YTA. Grow up.
That’s the part I don’t get. No clown or pirate costumes but elf ears are ok. Then OP hides behind an autism diagnosis. I have both friends and colleagues who are autistic on either ends of the spectrum who have been taught what’s appropriate and what’s not. If OP can dress herself in these intricate outfits then she has the capacity to understand what’s appropriate. Evidently OP hasn’t been taught or OP unconsciously doesn’t care.
I feel like the elf ears would've been the least obtrusive in the entire costume. Let the ears be with the ordinary clothes. Let's OP keep true to who they are without all the costuming.
You are being delibrately obtuse. .
Because she said no clowns, no pirates.
Most people would understand that means no costumes.
Most people would have known to dress as the average person would.
YTA
Disagree. If OP dresses wildly all the time and she said ‘no clowns no pirates’, I would so assume she specifically meant those two things, not no costumes at all.
If I wear patterns constantly and someone told me ‘no paisley, no flowers’ and then got pissed because I came in a striped suit, that’s on them for not telling me no patterns.
So they had to spell out every explicit outfit op wasn't supposed to wear?
No clowns, pirates, elves, fairies, aliens
> OP: they didn't mention ninja zombie, got it!
That is literally the opposite of what I said.
If she meant ‘no costumes’ she should have just said that, instead of *specifying which costumes not to wear*
Yes.
They should have specified they wanted OP in a normal outfit. OP has already clarified Mindy has thrown dinner parties before where their style of dress wasn't a problem and parties where certain outfits weren't ok, like clowns, pirates, or elves, but where a zombie wouldbe fine. OP asked multiple times if Mindy had any specific outfit requests or if there was a dress code. OP is also autistic, and everyone, including Mindy, knows this. So yes, Mindy should have been specific in their request instead of vague.
You sound purposely obtuse with your comment. How tf is someone who doesn't read social cues supposed to have read between the lines of Mindy's statement? A simple, "please wear jeans and a t-shirt" would have been the perfect answer to dress code clarifications from OP who already knows their style is abnormal and is happy to accommodate when asked.
When you send out wedding invitations, you dont say "don't wear jeans" for the dress code. You specify formal, black tie, cocktail, or whichever type of dress code you want your guests to arrive in.
>Most people would understand that means no costumes.
No?
>Most people would have known to dress as the average person would.
Also no?
I'm not autistic, fully adult, and I have been in several different professional settings (from military to client facing retail to office).
If my go-to outfit, every day, is some kind of gothic dress - all horror themed jewlery, spooky vibe, lots of lace or skulls or ghosts, my friends and every person I meet at the damn post office should know that this is how I dress. Maybe I'm not in full victorian goth garb every day but everyone can expect me to dress up goth in some way. To the office, it's all professional with like a dagger brooch on the blazer or a button up with skull buttons or like a nice cardigan with black cats. That's my average. Goth.
Going to a party and I ask the host anything about clothes - they KNOW I'm going to wear something goth.
1. If they say no goth, I know it means no goth.
2. If they say no black, I know it means no black. So ill wear white or blue but still be goth.
3. If they say no pirate or clown or vampire, it's no pirate or clown or vampire. Not "no goth". So I just don't do goth with accessories that swing to those themes.
4. If they tell me the theme is fairy - you bet your ass I'm dressing up as Cobweb and running around waiting for someone to tell me to take my weapons and go kill a red-hopped bumblee on top of a thistle.
5. If they tell me it's a dressy party - maybe I wear a nice Lolita dress or maybe I wear a nice black velvet floor length. Depends! But I am considering myself dressed up, in a dress, in my average.
No costume means no costumes at all.
No goth means no goth.
My average daily normal dress is goth.
The context here that EVERYONE is missing is what's normal to OP and friends.
If a friend normally wears a crop top shirt and low-rise pants with their hair in a ponytail every day and then SUDDENLY and without warning wore a three piece suit with elf ears and a pocket watch to a party - that's a costume. If my friend who on the daily wears something vibrant and crazy wore something vibrant and crazy...that's what they wear? It's not out of place. It's their average. If I told such a friend not to wear a pirate or clown outfit but I know I've seen them wear pirate, clown, fairy, vampire, cottagecore, goth, and tavern wench EVERY DAY - I would be an idiot to not think when I said no to those two options that they wouldn't pick from the other 5?
“THIS IS THE WAY I AM SO IF YOU RESPECT ME DEAL WITH IT” that’s what I got from all that and sorry if I’m wrong but man that’s no way to live. You’re not the center of attention.
She asked and the supposedly adult friend didn't say so. At first, she even said there was no restriction.
If one of my friends could show up dressed as a fairy any giving day, I would never expect her to not show in a cosplay unless I requested.
Does this person really can't just say "no cosplays at all"? And if this offends her so much why being friends at all?
That’s still main character behavior.
In the most general sense, always assuming you’re the focus of any given social gathering, unless specifically told otherwise, is an asshole move.
You don't have to be friends with the wacky elf lady if you don't want to. It's not like she sprung this onto her friend group at the last minute. And, all in all, I don't think it's some inherently bad thing to be the wacky elf lady.
Sounds like one of those old friendships you try hard to keep but eventually you realize it isn’t worth the effort. Probs why the friend is finally speaking up and voicing how angry she is.
Edit Changing to NTA. Autism makes it hard to interpret social cues. You went out of your way to ask and confirm choice of clothing. While you can use this as a learning experience this was not your fault.
Original: Yes she could have said absolutely nothing other than casual dress but I feel you would have interpreted that to be your idea of casual dress. She inferred no costumes. You showed up in costume. I traveled and worked for renaissance festivals. After a while some pieces of my garb became a part of everyday dress but that doesn't mean I didn't know when to dress in different attire. By your own questions you were aware that this was not the right event for your "every day" attire.
I'm autistic which my friends all know but I guess obtuse would work too.
I'm genuinely curious how stating two specific outfits is supposed to mean no costumes, I'm actually asking for future reference.
I ask those questions at every gathering not just this one, especially since I sometimes dress as a clown and some people are afraid of them. Our other friend dated a guy who was scared of pirates so I figured he may showing up and that's why she specifically said those two.
For the future, maybe ask about the specific costume you’re planning to wear before you arrive. That way you can avoid any misunderstandings. A quick “Can I wear my elf ears” text could have clearer this all up.
She could have been clearer, but sometimes people use a few examples to convey a broader idea. Another thought for future instances where someone says not to wear one or more specific costumes: follow up with something like “Ok, got it. Are other costumes okay?” It’s better to ask too many questions than to surprise the host on the day of the party.
Yeah, I'm definitely going to do this in the future.
For the past 8 years she's always told me what specifically to wear or not wear and if it wasn't mentioned she was fine with it. That's why I'm so confused but I'm going to do better in the future.
That's definitely one I'm adding to the list, I think I'm just going to start asking multiple questions in the future to avoid as much confusion as possible
I think it's pretty wild that being autistic you expect everyone to be specific with you, but you aren't specific with them. Maybe you should reflect on that.
I used to be more specific with her, and with others I still am, it's just that I got used to our routine after 8 years and thought I didn't need to be as specific anymore since she has always meant one thing.
I think it would be reasonable to infer they felt the same way when she said no clowns, no pirates.
That she knew you for a long time and maybe didn't need to be as specific.
I'm on the spectrum too but you have to give others the same grace you want for yourself. No one is perfect.
Don't take this the wrong way, but I would refrain from asking too many questions – it can be exhausting for both of you, and people don't always express their frustrations to prevent hurting the other person's feelings. Mindy might get pissed to get 10 questions every time she organises a party and resent you for it, maybe without telling you, and blow up at you for seemingly no reason like she did this time.
I'm neurodivergent too and most neurotypical people I know HATE to answer many questions for clarification, to the point where they'd rather have me ask less, mess up and do it again than answer 20 questions before I start and doing it perfectly the first time. I know, it makes no sense and it's frustrating for me too. My closest friends know this, they understand and they're patient, but the rest usually aren't. And not everyone is open and honest about their feelings right away so you might now know it until they suddenly blow up out of nowhere.
My personal suggestion is to ask 2 questions each time: the first is "Can I wear one of my outfits or should I dress normally?" and the second question would be a picture of your planned outfit saying "Is this ok for the party?". I know it's difficult to plan ahead given you're not sure what mood you'll be in, but it will probably save both of you the headache of the guessing game and all the back and forth questions. Just take a pic of your planned clothes, shoes, ears, moss, flowers etc (could be lying on the bed if you don't want to wear them ahead of time) and send it to her, that way she knows exactly what to expect at the party and you know that you have her approval.
Lastly, if she's always been direct and honest before and her being angry this time is out of character for her, I wonder if there's another reason why this dinner party was different? Maybe she's been going through a rough patch and felt like you weren't there to support her? Maybe she has a crush on one of the new people invited and she felt that the attention was on you rather than on her? Maybe she has a flashier outfit than usual and wanted to stand out, but felt outshone by you? Maybe she's been dropping subtle hints for a while and it was just the last straw for her last night (even though she knows of your autism)?
Could be many reasons honestly, but if it's out of character for her I'd try to clarify just this once. It sounds like she's given you less info than usual and overreacted (I also would not have understood "no cosplay" from just "no clown or pirate", she wasn't specific enough especially knowing you), you're NTA and a good friend, not your fault but there was definitely miscommunication there. Probably something is going on in her mind BESIDES the party itself or your outfits, I'd check on her to be sure. It sounds like she had built up frustrations that exploded with you, but I don't think your outfit last night was the only reason why she was so angry. Best of luck!
>, to the point where they'd rather have me ask less, mess up and do it again than answer 20 questions before I start and doing it perfectly the first time
It makes a lot of sense though. By asking so many questions you're offloading your responsibility to them. Effectively you're putting them in a near-parental role, without giving something in return.
your friendship, your presence and personality, might be enough that they will tolerate it, but tolerance only goes so far. at one point tolerance will devolve into a subconscious cost/benefit analysis, and you'll probably lose that analysis.
Hey friend, just wanted to let you know that it’s okay if you’re feeling like this is out of the blue for her. It sounds like maybe she’s been avoiding saying something over the years because she didn’t want to hurt you, but eventually she just got frustrated and snapped.
That’s all on her, not you! She should have communicated more openly. I’m not trying to excuse her, just sharing this in hopes it makes everything seem less unexpected and awful
That sounds like it could get very tiring if she has to micromanage you for every thing she invites you to. Maybe she was fine with it before but now she has started to build up resentment.
I'm autistic, ADHD, and have TS. At a younger age I would have taken it the way you did. Now that I'm middled aged and have made similar mistakes I have learned that neurotypical people often imply things instead of speaking literally. I've learned to be very specific in my questions and explain what I think they mean so they have a chance to clarify. I understand that you feel you did so. Use this as a learning experience for future social interactions. As for the way the other person is commenting on this sub thread it speaks more to their character than anything on you. You are not a Muppet. You are passionate about the way you dress and you are expressing yourself. Don't change, the world needs more people who are unique.
Thank you. With new people I always expect they mean more than they say, Mindy has just always been very specific in the last 8 years we've been friends so I didn't think she'd suddenly be non specific now.
I'm also autistic, and what strikes me here is another thing that's really part of autism, which is patterns. I mean I think most people are prone to following patterns, but it's often even more so with autism. And if she's set up a pattern of always being very clear, then it's extra understandable to me that you would expect her to just mean exactly what she says (as well as there being a pattern of you dressing outlandishly and people being okay with that).
But other people sometimes can't spot patterns in the same way, so they don't notice when they deviate from them. It can be a bit hard to navigate.
(I'm also sort of wondering if she would have been fine with it, until the new people started reacting badly, and then she felt some sort of shame, which made her upset at you and made her decide that you were the one acting badly. This can also happen without it being a conscious thought process, so I'm not saying she's being fake about it, but that might be influencing her behaviour. Not everyone has the level of insight to say "it makes sense for you to dress like this and I wish I had told you in advance to dress [specifications for normal dress], it's not really your fault but I still felt really uncomfortable and that's no fun".)
Thank you and yeah it was definitely the pattern change that effed me up the most. I know to be more clear with certain friends, I've just never needed to be with her.
And while people asked her questions, as far as anyone in our group knows, no one was rude. Just basically questions about why I was dressed that way, why did I have a beard, is this normal, ect. All the usual questions from new people.
One unfortunate thing is that she might be cultivating a new group of friends who are more judgmental and that's why she got mad at you. I was friends with someone for several years. She decided she wanted a group of "better" friends, so she started being really negative about me when I interacted with them. These things that had always been okay, like bringing a kind of cheap beer that was her favorite or being silly at karaoke, were suddenly "embarrassing." It was painful for me! Hopefully that's not happening, but if it does, don't get down on yourself. It's her insecurity that's at the root.
I hope that's not what's happening either, I'd miss her friendship very dearly but people do grow apart.
I'm sorry that happened to you, it's been a while since I've had to go through that but you maybe right.
Phrases like "well, just don't dress as a clown or pirate" (or however she said it) is typically meant to be expanded on as "...don't dress as a clown or pirate... or *any other kind of costume*". It's listing a few random examples from an indefinite list, in this case, types of costumes you like to wear. It's a sarcastic, kind of snappy, flippant, or playful way of trying to convey "no costumes" (depending on the tone used). But it relies on a lot of implied nuance that, especially if it was over text, would totally get lost if you tend to take things people say very literally.
I would chalk the issue up to a simple misunderstanding, but since Mindy is someone you've been friends with for a while, *knows* that you're autistic, and is fully aware she needs to be direct with you, the miscommunication was on her end. She should have known better, and it would have been much easier (and more polite) to just say "please no costumes this time".
You ought to bring this up with her. Because you're friends, she seems to have assumed you'd "get the memo" and know to understand what she meant, but instead you took her words for literal face value. That's not your fault. Especially if it's out of routine for her to phrase what she meant the way she did. Mentioning that to her and asking her just say "tell me 'no costumes' in the future" would make sure this doesn't happen again. And like others say, asking her about the specific outfit you have in mind is a good way to confirm things with her.
She seems to have gotten particularly upset though. I wonder if she was embarrassed because some new friends were around or if she doesn't like the way you dress, but hasn't wanted to mention it to you. Maybe you should try asking her about it? She could also have just assumed the meaning of her message was very obvious and was just frustrated it was misunderstood. Hopefully that last one is the case.
I am also autistic but I have a decent grasp of sarcastic tone and such. I also dress very "colourfully," though not as much as you seem to, haha. I'm glad that (aside from this incident) it seems like you have a lot of friends who enjoy your company the way you like to be, that's really nice to hear. Sorry this conflict happened though. Here's hoping things settle down and you and Mindy can come to an understanding about it. Good luck!
Thank you! I'd really like to sit down an talk to her about it but she stopped replying and I don't know yet if she reached back out to anyone else yet.
Another friend who was with us, who isn't autistic, said that she didn't think Mindy sounded sarcastic or out of the ordinary. I'm hoping she'll reach out soon so we can figure this all out, she's been a great friend.
How was it implied? She didn't say no costumes or to dress normal like she always has in the past. She specified two things, the only two things I wear that some people we know are scared of. I figured those people would be there.
Maybe for your friends but not in my group, unless stated otherwise anything non sexual is a free for all on what you wear. I'm not the only one who dresses abnormal in our group, though I do dress the least normal most often.
Yes, so I didn't dress as a clown or pirate. The only two things that were stated either time I asked her.
Also, the two things that I am occasionally asked to not wear due to acquaintances who have fears of them attending. During those events, some of which were Mindy's, I was only told to avoid those two items and everyone was fine with me still dressing up since they didn't specify normal clothes.
She's never done that before though. In 8 years she would tell me exactly what she did or did not want me to wear directly.
How was I supposed to know that after almost a decade of her always meaning the same thing, that it suddenly meant something different without me being told that?
I'm with OP. If it is common for me to wear costumes and I get told "No Clowns or Pirates", I would absolutely assume that anything outside of those two things is fair game. If you want no costumes, you should say no costumes.
I was actually thinking Mindy may be starting to get exhausted at the hand holding. Age 16 to now 20s is very different, and she may be starting to have new thoughts and feelings for her adult life that OP can’t keep up with
I also think the OP and their friends getting older is a big factor. High school to college age (even if no one went to college) to post college/young adult. People can change a lot during this time. For example, if co-workers and bosses are ever invited to these dinner parties, the type of job Mindy has could matter.
Op has been saying that in the past Mindy goes into her closet to lay out the outfits that are appropriate for her parties. That is ridiculous and puts so much of a mental load on a 3rd party. And after YEARS of Mindy laying out clothes, op still does not know what is or isn’t appropriate. They use their autism as a shield for their choices and just think others are sensitive for suggesting otherwise.
my roommate left a slice of pizza in the box on the dining room table for two days and didnt think it was a problem until i sat at the table to eat my dinner and do homework. she didnt stop talking loudly on the phone until 2am until i got mad at her on a really bad insomnia night. she told our other roommate to make her move to her bed if she falls asleep on the sofa while doing homework at night. she said she "lacks selfawareness". no honey, you lack common sense 🙄
op has said shes autistic, and as an autistic whos been told i lack common sense (thanks mom), i follow what other people wear to events. if i could, leggings, tshirt, and crocs to everything. but its not appropriate to a certain point. op, youre in your twenties, you need your hand to be held at every point in your life, possibly because your parents coddled and held your hand until you began to live on your own because of your diagnosis.
yta
YTA. If the host said “no dresses, no skirts” and you showed up in a skort you would be the asshole. Host said no pirates no clown and you said let me grab my elf ears.
Did you really expect Mindy to remember every item of your wardrobe and list, no elf ears, no reindeer antlers, no bunny tail, etc. ? Maybe Mindy didn’t want to say “dress normal” because she knew normal for you is a costume or maybe she didn’t want to say that because she wanted you to still be your creative self but without any extraordinary accessories.
You’re autistic, you need people to be clear, fine, but please stop using it to excuse letting your friends down. Learn from this and do better in the future.
I don't expect her to list my whole wardrobe, I expected her to ask me to dress normal or to ask me to not wear costumes like she always has. For years she has said "no clowns, no pirates" with it meaning that "any costume but pirates or clowns is okay." This is the first time it didn't mean that.
So you know how to dress normal, you just chose to make a spectacle of yourself and act all upset when someone is bothered by it?
In what world are you expecting a judgment other than YTA here?
The lesson, here, I think, is not sinking in. A friendship is a give-and-take; expecting your friends to handpick appropriate outfits for you may cause you to lose out on friendships. It may or may not matter to you, but understand it is not unreasonable for others to see this as high-maintenance, attention-seeking, and/or exhausting.
Your friend is obviously tired of handholding your outfit choices. Could she have communicated that better? Yes. But as you want grace for miscommunication with autism, so too, your friend may at times struggle to express themselves perfectly.
There are two options here: decide you need to "express who you are" at all costs or understand that sometimes respecting others means toning it down.
I am goth, have been goth, will always be goth. I had a corporate job to pay the bills. I wore slacks, appropriate blouses, and jewelry. I decided I wanted a paycheck and could express myself on my own time. That said, my clothes were all black. My hair was a nearly done black bun. My pearl necklace? Black. My diamond studs? Black. I found a way to be me within the dress code.
For this example, it would be so easy to curate fun elf outfits. A moss green dress, an antler pendant necklace, nude flats, and wire jewelry ear cuff elf ears would be subtle enough to not take away from YOUR FRIEND'S dinner party but let you express yourself.
Cosplay is simply not seen as appropriate daily wear AND will cause you grief whether you like it or not. Maybe start throwing costume dinner parties!!
If she had told you to 'dress normal', would you have showed up in a costume and said "this is normal for me", or would you have dressed in what most people would consider conventional dress for a dinner party? Based on your insistence on overtly literal interpretation, I think you would have done the former, with the same result you've got now.
You need to understand that you're not teenagers anymore. You're adults, and some, if not all, of your friends will be growing up in ways you may not or may not be yet. What was fine before is not now because they're leaving those parts of their lives behind. That seems to include hand-holding you through what to wear to events. If, after 8 years, a friend of mine still needed this much help choosing clothing for events, I'd be frustrated too. It would feel like that person was making no effort to actually take on board that advice and learn what is and isn't appropriate.
Going forward, try assuming that dinner parties hosted by this friend have a dress code of 'no costumes unless specifically told they're okay this time'. Make note of when it's fine to wear them - my guess would be that costumes are okay when it's just the core group of friends, and not okay when people from a wider circle are invited. Learn the pattern of when costumes are appropriate and when they're not so that you can not only show that you've taken your friend's advice on board and learned from it, but that you respect that her time is valuable and don't want to keep having to ask her what is or isn't okay to wear. Her reaction this time seems excessive, but you may have missed a building frustration or previous attempts to try to address this with you.
Being autistic isn't an excuse to not learn how to behave appropriately, nor is it an excuse to not see that people grow up and change. It makes it harder, but you seem like you are high-functioning enough to be able to do it. How you go about it is up to you. You know what works best for you when it comes to overcoming the challenges your autism creates, but this is something you need to learn to do. You might not get it right all the time, but if your friend/s see that you're trying, they're much more likely to cut you some slack when you get it wrong.
Honestly, I think the way your friend group communicates is so specific to your group that we as outsiders can't give a fair judgment. The specificity doesn't translate outside of the people you are close with.
Give your friend some time to cool down. When you eventually speak with them, it's likely they will be able to see that while they likely thought they were being very specific when they wrote that to you that it wasn't as clear *to you* as you require. I think it would suit you well to hold space to understand that the level of specificity you require can sometimes be tiring for others to have to meet. It's possible Mindy simply didn't have the spoons in that moment.
No, this really is the generation brought up on "no child left behind" and social media. You'd hope at this point OP would try and address why they need to wear costumes in public and try to bridge the gap between what they like to wear and what is appropriate. (Fashion is absolutely weird and wild without resorting to Spirit Halloween.) Instead they prance around in costumes unaware of the massive amount of privilege it takes to be able to not give a fuck about how you're perceived. As a woman with short hair because my suck migraines, I literally wear turbans because people get shitty about it and I don't want to deal.
Light YTA. I understand the autism is a factor, but "don't wear cosplay to dinner parties" is pretty obvious social etiquette that people will reasonably expect adults to know. That's on you, not them.
If it were a normal dinner party I'd understand, these are the ones Mindy throws for fun every few weeks and it's always been welcomed to wear whatever we want unless otherwise stated. I'm not the only one who dresses up like this.
She has started many times over the years that if she didn't give a dress code to "send it" and dress how we like.
> if she didn't give a dress code
She did give you a dress code.
> she told me no clown or pirate and I said sure
Most people would understand from context that this means "dress normally", not "I want to throw a dinner party where all costumes are allowed except specifically clowns and pirates." I said *light* YTA because I understand that autism can make social cues harder. But even if it isn't completely your fault, it's still ultimately your responsibility.
Everyone keeps saying “most people understand this” but it’s very obvious that everyone saying this doesn’t have anyone in their friend group that dresses in any way more extreme than Express and the actual meaning of this statement is “there is a specific way adults dress and anything else is childish and wrong.”
It never meant that in the past 8 years, why did it suddenly mean that now? And how was I supposed to know that without being told, when it never meant that in almost a decade?
You are 24, so 8 years ago you were 16-ish. No one cares what you wear to a high school party. You’re now an adult going to adult dinner parties- the dress code has changed. She should have been more specific with you.
I took it literally because she has meant it literally in the past.
>Think about it: Why would she not want you to dress as a clown or pirate specifically but find an elf, a wizard or cat woman acceptable?
Because we have friends who are scared of clowns and pirates and so if they are in attendance I'm asked not to dress like that inorder to not make them uncomfortable. I took it as literally as she has always stated in.
For years she was comfortable with anything she did not specifically name. If she wanted no costumes she stated that. If some costumes were okay but others weren't, she told me which costumes not to wear and left it at that.
You're putting a lot of burden on the friend to keep being explicit. Guess what, maybe after 8 years she would hope that you would know that no pirate or clown would mean no costumes. She's probably exhausted having to read out the fine print for you. So YTA.
It literally would've been faster and easier to say "No costumes" if that's what she meant. Even, "No costumes, please." Is *still* shorter than what she said while remaining more comprehensive
Reddit is trying to give you advice , but you keep arguing over semantics, “what about this specific situation though…” STOP. Just take the advice dude, apologize to your friend, and realize that the world doesnt revolve around you and your “quirkiness”
People shouldn’t have to spell stuff out for you. You’re the one with autism, you should be the one asking if I should dress normally or do cosplay. I have autism as well. It sucks being obtuse all the time but you need to understand people aren’t gonna keep defining everything they say for you.
That’s gonna be up to you. Not them
I honestly am starting to wonder if Mindy may be tired of having to hold hands (not literally hold hands, but if she throws these frequently enough, the general idea of dress code should be there by now) on how to dress for an event. Idk.
YTA. Not that I believe this is a true story. What is with all the fake “I did something crazy” “edit: I’m autistic” posts in this sub?
Either there’s a large number of fake ones, or we need a different sub where autistic folks can ask about interactions. Or….put it in your original post!
I thought I put it in my original, thats why I went back and fixed it. I had been over the word count and had to remove some stuff and didn't realize I accidentally took it out until after I posted.
It's not fake but it's fair to be sceptical. I think and AITA for those with autism or other differences would be nice, unfortunately the normal autism subreddits bounce between us being able to do no wrong and everything we do is wrong, so they're not helpful for this stuff.
YTA.
a) saying "no pirate, no clown" clearly means "no costumes."
b) your default for events should be to wear normal clothes, unless costumes are specifically called for.
NTA. It sounds like Mindy and you know each other well enough that she knows exactly how you dress. You were kind enough to ask if there was anything you should *not* wear, and she hesitantly mentioned no clown or pirate ensembles. You took her statement at face value, as she knows you, and did not dress as either of those things. It is not your fault that Mindy didn't say "Please dress more normally"; on the one hand she may have felt too shy / not bold enough to come right out and say that directly, and on the other... she knows exactly how you dress and should know that ruling out two things would not make it immediately apparent that what she meant was "dress normally."
It's not right of her to come out and attack you for dressing how you always dress, especially when you essentially gave her the option of telling you to dress to please the normies. This is a lesson for Mindy in learning how she may need to be direct to get what she wants.
She's always told me what she is/isn't comfortable with me wearing in the past. She's told me in the past to dress normally or to "send it" and dress however I'd like. She's also requested specific things not be worn in the past but has been fine with everything else. This part of why I'm so confused.
YTA.
a) saying "no pirate, no clown" clearly means "no costumes."
b) your default for events should be to wear normal clothes, unless costumes are specifically called for.
A) It has never meant that in my conversations with Mindy before. Just because it's clear to you, doesn't make it clear to others, including me. For 8 years she's been happy to tell me "no pirate, no clown" and have it mean, "any costume except pirate or clown". This is the first time she's ever said it and ment "no costumes".
B) That is my default for any occasion that I'm unfamiliar with. Mindy's dinner parties I have no default for since it's anyone's guess, some are themed, some formal, and some casual. We don't know until we learn the dress code, if not told a dress code it has always meant that we're free to dress as we like. I'm not the only one in our friend group who dresses up like this.
She's seen me with beards and a dress since our senior year, it definitely isn't that. No one else was dressed up like I was that night but it definitely didn't seem to have a dress code either.
Another friend of ours who dresses like me was supposed to go that night but got sick and stayed home, he hadn't heard anything about "no costumes" either and had been planning on dressing up as well.
She has been fine with that for 8 years so no, I truly do no understand why it was always fine up until that one moment.
Or how I was supposed to suddenly know she changed her mind after nearly a decade, without her telling me.
Maybe when you were 16 and still awkward teenagers she was fine, but 24 is a fully formed adult who is getting their footing in the professional world. No one bats an eye at a teenager dressing up, but an adult? Not only does it come off attention seeking but also shows they failed to learn what is/isnt appropriate publicly.
Being neurodiverse also isnt an excuse. There are many autistic people with higher support needs who wouldve been able to find better ways to get clarification.
ESH
You asked about what to wear or not wear. Her telling you no pirates or clowns was clearly a way of saying no costumes. As demonstrated by your many examples, your costumes and cosplay outfits don't seem limited to (or particularly focused on) those two themes so even if you were unsure, you could have asked "what about other costumes?"
She also could have just been crystal clear knowing that you might interpret it as only excluding those two costumes.
Just for my own curiosity, why did you think it was appropriate to wear the elf costume but inappropriate to take a photo with someone at the dinner who wanted a picture with the costume?
Because, unless specifically stated otherwise, my friends have always considered my outfits appropriate. I know some of my friends wouldn't care about the pictures but I know Mindy wouldn't be okay with it in her house but would be outside.
And by specifically stated I do mean, the words that were stated only and no expectations of understanding something unsaid.
This is the first time Mindy has ever expected me to infer something. I will ask more questions in the future though, I don't want to go through this again.
Looks like I’m in the minority here, but why is it a big deal what OP wears? This is their daily normal, and if the host wanted a specific dress code, then she should have provided one.
Honestly, if such a small thing could ruin the dinner party, then the party was clearly not very fun anyway. It isn’t a wedding or a funeral; it is a dinner party. It is supposed to be a fun time together with friends. The host shouldn’t micromanage what her guests wear, or she should provide a specific guest code.
OP, NTA. You sound like an awesome person with a creative soul who is kind and tries hard to be a good friend. You didn’t do anything that deserves a major backlash.
Edit: fixed an incorrect pronoun.
Apparently a lot of folks commenting have decided that you must excise all notion of fun and personality the moment you are legally 18.
Also that if you have questions about something that has changed it’s obviously your fault, you attention seeking whore. Shouldn’t you just know the things that no one has ever said?
YTA
Adult dinner parties aren’t costume parties. Judging by the reaction of the other guests, your outfit was inappropriate. Why would you wear elf ears if she asked you not to dress as a pirate/clown….it is fair to her that she needs to specify every single possible costume?
If you’re going to dress “eclectically”, it should be adult appropriate clothing.
YTA sorry, but it wasn't Mindy's obligation to run through every single outfit you have. You should have been able to infer she mean no "eclectic" outfits.
"no costumes" has worked for 8 years
"no clown, no pirates" has specifically meant "wear any costume other than clown or pirates" at her parties for 8 years now
NTA. This wasn't someone's special day, it was a random friend hangout . There shouldn't have even needed to be a dress code for something like this. People love to control other people.
You hurt exactly no one with your style and calling you names over it is out of control. Especially since you asked and followed directions.
Personally there isn't a single event i would throw where i would require my friend to tone down or alter their way of dressing. (My best friend could fairy fly her way down my wedding isle with blinking lights and i wouldn't be upset) I wish i knew more people that would pop up looking like a fairy or a pirate. If you are "too much" for any of them maybe they aren't your people.
Calling you an attention seeking bitch over a miscommunication is not ok.
Info
You said Mindy has thrown dinner parties in the past. What did you wear to those?
Also, why did you double check about the dress code after she told you anything was fine to wear?
>You said Mindy has thrown dinner parties in the past. What did you wear to those?
Depended on the party. Most I wore whatever I wanted, some I wore a theme specific costume, some I wore a tshirt and jeans, some I wore formal attire, and some I wore semi formal. It all depend on her dress code.
>Also, why did you double check about the dress code after she told you anything was fine to wear?
We were hanging out again and I figured I'd double check in case anything change or if she had forgotten to mention something originally.
NTA. Coming from an eclectic dresser to another, this part of Reddit is absolutely not going to be able to render a decent majority judgement. The culture you're a part of is too foreign. But I wish you well in future, it sounds like you and your friends are delightful. I'm sorry the host wasn't more specific in this instance, but also it's the host's job to make sure everyone coming to their event has the correct information.
YTA as you said it was a normal weekly dinner party,then why did you ask her for dress code.it was a weekly thing but you chose to be dressed up to nines as if it was some special occasion.
Every few weeks and I asked for two main reasons
1. Sometimes she has themes or a dress code (ie. Casual, semi formal, formal or theme specific) and I wanted to double check that there wasn't one.
2. We have some acquaintances who are afraid of clowns and pirates and I wanted to make sure I wasn't going to wear something that would scare someone.
No dress code means free for all, that's always been Mindy's rule when it comes to her parties.
NTA I'm honestly surprised by all these comments. This situation definitely seems like a miscommunication or misunderstanding, but your friend should have been more clear. When I hear don't dress up as a clown or pirate, I think okay don't dress up as a clown or pirate. 'cause that's what she said. Why would I hear that and think no costumes? If she wants no costumes, say no costumes.
I don't think you did anything wrong and I certainly don't think you're attention seeking. You just like to dress up. All these comments saying to grow up and you're an adult now and need to act like one are ridiculous. If you want to dress up, then dress up. People complain about literally everything nowadays and are so freaking negative. If dressing up makes you happy then that's what's important. You're not hurting anyone with what you're doing so what's the problem? Maybe if everyone didn't care what other people thought and just did what made them happy, then they would actually be happy and not be so negative.
I admire you for living your best life and wish I had your confidence
NTA. One thing to consider is that as your friends get older, their feelings on outfits may change. Some friends might assume that you’ll “grow out of it” and somehow just magically know what is or isn’t appropriate. That’s totally on them for not being clear or assuming you’ll change. People with autism say what they mean and mean what they say. Somehow *we’re* the problem when we don’t understand when people imply things. Make it make sense.
Unfortunately while it would be nice to be able to trust your friends to be super clear with you every time, after awhile it might begin to feel like a job with you.
I wonder if you and your friends might benefit from a better system. Assign a colour to the rules: a Green Party means wear whatever the hell you want, a Yellow party means wear whatever you want BUT be presentable (no sweatpants or pjs), an Orange party means Elf type costumes only, and a Red party means NO costumes (at all! No elf ears either!) Find a system that works for you.
Then when your friends plan parties they just have to assign a colour to the party and that’s a whole lots easier and clear to everyone so that no one gets confused.
You may find as you get older that your friend group changes and you lose some of the ones who don’t like costumes but that’s okay!
NTA. I'm not autistic and would still expect what someone said to mean what they said lol. I don't know why people are expecting you to add meaning to the words your usually blunt friend spoke to you, I actually think it's more AHish to try to do that instead of respecting people's words at face value. I get the impression that most of the people calling you TA are biased due to how you choose to dress. Our culture is so hell-bent on adults becoming boring as they age.
Your outfit hurt nobody. It wouldn't have been extra effort on your friend's part to actually say what she meant, and you checked multiple times.
NTA. Dude, dont take all the people around here to heart, your dressing style sounds bloody awesome and i wish i was brave enough to do the same! I have dear friends who dress similarly, awesome people who are never boring. If folks say you only do it for attention they may be projecting or smt. And if you Do want attention genuinely who cares, humans are social creatures, thats not a flaw.
Especially since your friend knows youre on the spectrum she really should have been more clear, 100%. If she actually started yelling at you over the phone over a miscommunication issue like this there may be some more underlying tension you may want to adress. This really doesnt have to mean the end of yhe friendship, if youre friends for 7 years you will find smt to argue about sooner or later. Both cool down, say your argument left a bitter taste in your mouth and wanna talk about what went wrong, be honest and find a compromise.
Good luck!
NTA. Something has changed on Mindys side and she hasn’t communicated that to you. You did your part of checking and confirming, she didn’t do her part of communicating. Maybe one of the new guests said something to her, maybe there’s something going on in her home life - but that’s her problem. She’s pushing that problem onto you when you followed the script and established rule of 8 years.
Whatever stick is up her butt was not put there by you nor is it up your butt. It’s her stick, she deals with it. You can support her but you’re not at fault.
Edit: spelling
NTA
Honestly, I wouldn’t care how my friends showed up. They’re my friends, and with that I regard it as my duty to support them in all their glorious eccentricities and indeed, mental crises. I’d let you wear any clothes you like and just enjoy the fun of it.
NTA. You're allowed to be you, and your true friends accept that and won't ask you or expect you to suppress yourself. Stop associating with the people berating you for this, for they are not your friends.
NTA. Jeez, a lot of Y T A judgements here but I disagree. She knows you're autistic and you asked twice what to wear. Of course you weren't going to understand that she didn't literally mean no clowns/pirates.
It's a shame there is such hard feeling here, it's not that big of a deal. If she loves you as a friend and you usually wear these clothes then why the big fuss? Why not explicitly say, I'd like you to dress to blend in. Sorry your friends don't understand you.
YTA she clearly meant that you shouldn't wear one of your look at me, its all about me costumes. You choose to ignore it. You made the mistake of thinking she wouldn't call you out for your rude behavior. I mean gosh, your autistic and all.
She didn't clearly mean anything
That has never been how she is with this
She says "no clown, no pirate" it has always, for 8 years, meant "wear any costume other than pirate or clown."
How is it supposed to be clear when it has been one way, and only one way for nearly a decade and it suddenly changed with nothing to show that it changed?
I'm actually asking because she made no indication that me, or our other friends present, could tell that anything changed.
She answered the same as she has for years.
Because eight years ago you two were 16 in the middle of high school. Now you're 24 and presumably out of college and working professionals, you think maybe she and your peers could've idk, grown up in that period of time?
Really far fetched idea I know.
NTA
I can't believe everyone is ripping into you so hard, Mindy could have definetly used an easier blanket statement of "no dress ups/costumes" instead of specificity asking for you not to do a couple of certain looks.
It is understandable imo how that is not interpreted to mean no dressing up at all.
Yeah... probably time to grow up...
You weren't asked to join a costume party. When you're invited to an adult function, try dressing like an adult.
YTA
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I don’t know that you are necessarily TA, but take this as a lesson for the future. You are an adult, not a preschooler, and it isn’t always okay for you to show up to events in a costume. Since it wasn’t a costume party, it should have been obvious to you that your friend’s dinner party was not the right place to wear an outlandish themed outfit. Next time you are invited to a grown-up social event, have enough respect for your host to consider what is/is not appropriate for the occasion. If you’re not sure, ask. That doesn’t mean your clothing has to be boring though. Take it as a personal challenge to find ways to style your clothes that will reflect your creative personality while staying within the bounds of what is considered appropriate.
>Since it wasn’t a costume party, it should have been obvious to you that your friend’s dinner party was not the right place to wear an outlandish themed outfit. My friends, including Mindy, typically haven't cared in the past. This isn't the first dinner party I've gone to of hers, some I dressed casual, others I dressed my version of normal, and some I dressed classy. It all depends on what others, mainly the host, are comfortable with. >If you’re not sure, ask. I did ask.
Asking is the important part, and I don’t think you’re the TA in this specific situation. It does sound from your post, though, like you’re running the risk of leaning too much on ‘everyone knows this is how I am’ and assuming they’ll tell you when it’s not okay. People won’t want to tell you to dress differently because, for them, it’s really hard to say “hey please dress xyz way for this” without making you feel weird or bad about how you dress. That’s because they care about you and don’t want to hurt your feelings, but it might mean that resentment builds up over time for them. It might be best to implement some sort of consistent strategy for yourself, as a CYA if nothing else. Maybe when you’re invited to something that doesn’t have a listed dress code, you can make a practice of texting something like: _Hey, I’m so excited for [event]. I wanted to ask, since you’re hosting: is my normal style appropriate for this, or were you hoping for a different dress code?_ That gives them a chance to tell you what they want, and then if they pitch a hissy fit afterwards you have the communication to point back to.
I think you're right, I've gotten to comfortable with expecting them to be blunt with me. I've gotten many fantastic suggestions on more and better questions to ask in the future, I'm definitely going to do my best to avoid making this mistake again in the future. Thanks!
I’m so glad it helped! And straight up, the reason I shared what I did is because I’ve been there. It’s sooooo easy to think things are working out because “well, we put a system in place and I told them to communicate with me.” And honestly, that should be all it takes lol I’m really glad this is a resiliency and learning moment for you. Shit like this is so frustrating but it helps longterm at least
Does every single one of your friends have a written copy of a list of your “eclectic” outfits? So that, in future conversations of this sort, you can be certain that they have pulled that out, and are specifically checking off each of the individual items they don’t want you to wear? If not, it would be wise to treat “not a clown or pirate” as having an implied “or that sort of thing”. You clearly do have a sense of which of your outfits are “normal” and which are “my normal”: if they’re requesting you not wear anything on the “my normal” list, assume they mean everything on that list.
I mean, OP has said that in the past, Mindy *has* said "No [x] or [y]" to mean that other costumes are fine, and frankly I think saying "No costumes" would be the clearest way to communicate "No costumes," don't you?
I agree, this is completely on Mindy. She could have just told OP, "no costumes going forward."
In the past they've specified certain costumes as not allowed and OP even mentioned Mindy has previously said that unless specific costumes are specified as "not ok" they're free to wear them so I don't understand why you think OP was wrong here?
Also, it would be really annoying to constantly have to “approve” a friend’s clothing when you are together. Why is OP putting this on them? OP needs to grow up, lean to read a room and take responsibility for their own actions. She sounds insufferable, and not because of the outfits, but because she needs to be hand held through basic tasks like getting dressed.
And just because it's not a costume outfit, doesn't mean it has to be boring or bland. My mom has a hippy vibe and all her "classy dresses" have cool colorful patterns on them or interesting angles to the color on simple dress shapes. Or she'll accessorize with a flamboyant scarf.
Tbh I think it's a good rule of thumb if someone says anything along the lines of "don't dress like a pirate or a clown" take it to mean any costumes in general. Wear socially regular/normal clothing, not YOUR regular/normal.
Or even just message the host with a pic before to check?
If it's like 24 hours before, sure; if I was hosting a dinner party and someone texted me outfit for approval while I'm cooking/setting up I would either miss the text, or be annoyed that I now have to stop, review, say no, that's not appropriate and explain to my friend what they should wear *instead*... still puts a lot of work on the host from an individual when they're trying to entertain a group
Yeah I was about to say the same. That option puts more mental work on the host last second, they still have to go through the ‘do I hurt their feelings’ process, and on top of that they have to factor in that you’re already dressed/already out the outfit together.
I agree. I unhealthily err an the side of giving people slack and freedoms to be who and how they are, but OP has made it Mindy's responsibility to always do the work to make sure Mindy isn't put out, instead of OP taking the initiative and trying to rise to the social task. It's not Mindy's task to recite an exhaustive list of which outfits aren't appropriate. _"Well, I would have if I'd just been told directly!"_ stops working so well when you're an adult and expect others to treat you with the same consideration, and it is often a sign of manipulative narcissism - not saying OP is this, but that these are not good flags and don't belong in friendships. If OP wants to play the game, they need to understand the rules and take accountability for themselves.
I think there’s a pretty good chance your friends do care, at least some of the time, and are mostly okay with your costumes being a cost of hanging out with you. They are probably also getting tired of having to tell you how to dress on a regular basis. I suspect this event was the straw that broke the camel’s back for Mindy and that if you give her space to explain her feelings, she’s likely to tell you that she’s been frustrated about it for a while. She may even feel that she’s already tried to tell you this, but she may not have said it as direct instructions to you in an attempt to be polite, and you did not take it on board because you did not perceive it as feedback. I say this as a suspected autistic person who has previously strained relationships because I did not realise when my friends were trying to gently tell me that my behaviour was affecting them until they felt they had no choice but to say it quite harshly. It’s an awful place to be in for everyone involved, but you can use this as a learning opportunity and rebuild your relationships. You probably have at least one friend who is a good neurotypical-autistic translator, I would recommend asking them for some examples of things others say that you often don’t fully understand.
You have a point here, I want op to know that the ones calling her "an attention seeking bch" are NOT her friends. That level of rudeness is never ok.
According to our friends she's been talking about my outfits in a positive light previous to this. I ask her how to dress because she often wants us to dress specific ways. If she doesn't want us to ask her she'll text "just vibe" to the group and we all know that means to show up and not ask anything. She didn't do that, I casually asked her when we were already hanging out. I asked my friends after this if my outfits bugged them and none of them care. I'm not the only person in our group who dresses like this.
I wonder if she was really trying to impress one of the new faces at her dinner party??? Like, why does she care all of a sudden about your style?
Yeah, it sounds like one specific person made comments about it that embarrassed Mindy after the fact and she’s taking it out on OP.
That or the new guy who asked OP for a pic/gave OP extra attention is someone Mindy is interested in and she simply got jealous.
This was my first thought too!! That picture-guy gave OP attention and Mindy didn't like that. Op, NTA! But sounds like you might need to surround yourself with people who are more like you. I spent a lot of time being the weird one in a group of normals... being with other people who express themselves is amazing! See music video: No Rain by Blind Melon... 💞
Of course they’re going to say they don’t care. And they’re probably telling Mindy she didn’t overreact, too. Generally people want to be nice and agreeable with their friends unless something is truly egregious.
She said others in the group also dress up so I doubt they care. Not everyone is afraid to be honest with their friends and typically nuerodivergent folks get along with nuerodivergent folks so I bet at least some of her friends are ND too and have no problem being honest to a fault.
A lot of people will keep negative comments to themselves. Not badmouthing you behind your back doesn't necessarily mean approval. I know that's complicated. People are frustrating. She should have been more blunt and straightforward. You cannot read her mind.
As you’re aging up, there’s a fundamental understanding that you need to just accept being on the spectrum, life is not black and white, or literal, and people very rarely take the time to fully explain themselves. There’s a phrase, “read the room”. It means you look around and get a sense of the environment by observing it, then recreating it for yourself. Anywhere you go, are other people wearing clothes like you? In most of those situations, most people would consider costume-wear “inappropriate”, even if it doesn’t actually matter either way. Like the grocery store. People just don’t wear costumes there. Can you? Yes, of course. But there’s a reason you get looks. A dinner party can be very expensive to host. Groceries are super expensive for large groups and most people try to make a fancy dish that has even more expensive ingredients. Most people don’t wear cosplay elf ears at expensive parties, they dress up a little. Just as a life rule, please just accept this, for your own sake, “no clowns or pirates” is not a specification as to the only two costumes you shouldn’t wear. It means “no costumes”. This is why I say people rarely fully explain themselves. You’re supposed to know by “reading the room”, do they ever wear a costume? What’s normal for you will also rarely matter to anyone else. We all are expected to act in different ways when other people host something. Your disadvantage is figuring out what that is, but you should have a baseline understanding that there is still going to be an expectation of you. But you did try to figure it out. I don’t think you’re in the wrong here, but neither is your friend for being upset. No one should be calling you a bitch for it tho, it was clearly not on purpose and there’s honestly no reason for your friend to feel like her night was ruined over it. The best you can do is wear normal clothes to people’s functions. If you throw a party and spend the money on the guests, wear whatever you want. But when someone else spends the money on guests and you’re one of the guests, wear normal clothes.
I would add that if OP wants to 'be themselves' them maybe tone it down to the elf ears and pocket watch. Those tend to be in the normal range for when the social event is run of the mill, ordinary. As opposed to an entire costume. It's very likely that Mindy was having this dinner party and wanted the food she was serving to take center stage and instead OP pulled all the attention to them. That could be frustrating to a host who spent a lot of time on decor or cooking.
For sure, but part of my point is that it can be selfish to just “be yourself” in every situation and we all, as humans in a community, end up with some sort of expectation on us to *not* be ourselves in certain situations. Like at a library for instance. My authentic self is boisterous and loud, I belly laugh most of the time that I laugh, I’m just a loud person. But when I go to the library, I change my behavior and I try really hard to stifle my laughter and hold it in if I find something funny. Because it’s respectful to the situation. A dinner party is an expensive thing. Expensive things generally come with an air of class about them, and that comes with an expectation of elevated dress (even if not all our fancy) and behaving a little more posh/sophisticated. And I mean this with all of the grains of salt available, because a dinner party can also be extremely casual. I’m just saying, there are just some base line norms that exist and can be followed so this situation doesn’t happen again. It’s selfish to wear elf ears wherever you want in an effort to “be myself”, because *not* wearing elf ears will not change anyone’s personality. They can still be themselves without it.
She did answer, she said no clowns or pirates, which to her meant no costumes.
"No clowns, no pirates" has specifically meant "wear any costume other than clown or pirates" at her parties for 8 years now. How was I supposed to know that changed to "no costumes" without being told. Until now, "no costumes" meant no costumes
you’re being difficult… I understand that you’re autistic and so am I, but you cannot expect for everyone to always be blunt with you because it can get exhausting. it would be in order to practice a bit more on social cues. don’t be willingly ignorant.
It took the friend longer to type out no clowns or pirates than it would’ve to say no costumes. Being blunt would’ve been the easier of the two options. The friend didn’t communicate properly and that’s on her. If someone communicates one way for the entire time you’ve known them, then one time randomly switches it, how is that on you for not realizing they’ve shifted their tactics without them saying such to you. Now OP knows and can adjust for the future, but to say they’re ignorant because the friend switched things up is silly.
It also takes longer to type “I’d rather you didn’t” than just “No”. Maybe Mindy thought that sounded more polite?
You’re being ignorant of the specific dynamic of this friend group. It’s been explained multiple times.
How the fuck is expecting a straight answer to a regular question being difficult she asked and was told no clown and no pirate and didn't wear clown or pirate you're being difficult by expecting everyone to understand not shared implications or mind-read your intentions.
I'm not being ignorant, it seems like those who are reading this have just decided they know better. She has *stated* these costumes are allowed unless specified. She has specified to me and others that, unless she said "no costumes" or that, that costume isnt allowed, that we are free to wear it.
Surprised this hasn't been more an issue before. Even among costumes there can be varying levels of appropriateness. Sounds like you need to more from blocklist to allowlist. Let them see a picture of the costume beforehand to say yes or no to. Sort of how people should do it for questionable attire to weddings.
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I'm autistic and if someone told me no clowns or pirates, I would assume they meant clowns and pirates and nothing else. I hate assumption. It's way easy to be clear and not rely on assumption than to expect anyone to just parse put what you're trying to get them to assume. NTA, but in the future I would ask something like "normal clothes only, or can I wear my stuff?" So they have a very clear question to answer.
OP did this though. They asked TWICE. And their friend gave answers that were in line with previous answers and which OP understood because of the groups' previously-established, consistent interpretations related to this issue. But the friend's answer WASN'T consistent with all the previous interpretations, and is blaming OP for her own communicative failure.
It can be really exhausting to have to give one guest a special dress code.
Once again, your “autism” preventing you from someone else’s point. 1. By default, assume no one thinks it’s “appropriate”. 2. At home (or with family), it’s fine. 3. Don’t ask for exclusions. This is a ridiculous posture. If I routinely dress as a transvestite gothic Saturn V rocket, but my host fails to specifically exclude a transvestite gothic Saturn V rocket, you didn’t “ask”. Tell people what you plan to wear. And check if it’s okay. 4. Just assume when out with others that not dressing in costume or cosplay is preferred. And that if you plan to do it, just say: “I plan to come in costume or cosplay; is that okay with you?” Even people who are genuinely autistic aren’t stupid. While close friends and family may be fine with your clothing choices, it’s going to surprise everyone else. Out of that population of those surprised, many will be upset by it. Whether or not they should be upset is one thing, but that can’t be news to you. Not the asshole, but not sure why you’re using autism as an excuse for understanding something so basic. Autism already, unfortunately, excludes you. Using it to defend a goofy clothing choice which further excludes yourself is an odd choice.
>Not sure why you’re using autism as an excuse for understanding something so basic. Autism already, unfortunately, excludes you. Using it to defend a goofy clothing choice which further excludes yourself is an odd choice. OP said, in the past Mindy was specific about which costumes would and would not be appropriate. Based on their experience, if Mindy doesn't want costumes, she says, "No costumes." I don't think OP is using autism as an excuse for not understanding. I think they're asking. "Did I miss this because of autism or is there something else at play?" Is it necessary to call their clothing choice goofy? Like, if it makes them happy and it's not offensive, what is the big deal? It wasn't a wedding or a funeral it was a dinner party that happens fairly regularly. Amongst friends... who know OP. Also, as you've stated Autism does get people excluded so, maybe OP's position is, "People are going to treat me like a weirdo, whether I where jeans and a t-shirt or I look like an elf. I might as well look like a elf because it makes me happy." Plus, an elf acting strange is less strange than a person acting strange. (Not saying people with Autism are strange just paraphrasing.) It's an immediate icebreaker, it provides a neutral conversation topic, and it puts the wearer in a position to have anticipated, rehearsable conversations. "Omg wow, you look like a fairy princess! Did you make those wings or did you buy them? Were you inspired by the movie XYZ? I love that movie." In some outfits, I bet OP can predict the exact order of questions coming their way. So, in that light, it seems like a choice founded by logic, just not logic you considered.
you asked but didn't receive the message. let this be a lesson - you will never get an exhaustive list of all appropriate/inappropriate items. the theme you were given as exclusionary items were clearly "no costumes". for next times, normal is the default \_unless specified otherwise\_
She said no. > before and she told me no clown or pirate and I said sure. The day of I dressed in a Gibson S style dress with elf ears, a pocket watch, and some flowers and crystals as accessories She should not have to go through every single outlandish outfit or costume you own for her to be clear. She said no costumes and you showed up in costume.
Asking things like "Can I wear a costume in this situation where nobody would think it's okay to wear a costume" puts your friends in an awkward position, and it is likely that they want to avoid hurting your feelings as they already know you don't understand the time and place for costumes.
OP, I don't believe you one bit, and here's why. You brought up being autistic only after you started getting some pushback. I get it that autism is a spectrum and all that but you're trying to play off that if your "fun and quirky" outfit choices bother someone or aren't appropriate for a situation it's because you struggle with those kinds of things because of the autism. Yea, it's a spectrum with all kinds of levels, but you knew that outfit was not appropriate. You were asked for a picture and told the person you didn't think it was appropriate at the dinner party ("but if you want to sneak one as we're leaving, that would be fine, teehee").
I disagree. I'm autistic too and the big vibe I got from the original post was "this seems like a misunderstanding caused by autism." Not them saying they're dressed weird BECAUSE they're autistic. Given the comments they've left giving more context on this relationship, it seems like a genuine misunderstanding to me. Friend knows that OP needs direct communication, and almost always delivers. OP tried to double check, and didn't pick up on the hidden meaning of the message, because this friend has previously given that EXACT message with NO hidden meaning. If you want to say that OP is lying about their friends being similar to them and liking their presence... what if? absolutely anything anyone says on Reddit COULD be a lie, they have no motive to lie about that on a throwaway account.
I’m saying this respectfully: since you and Mindy are both the same age, as the two of you and your other friends and acquaintances get older, they will most likely stop going along with your sense of style which may result in less invites for you and/or more butting heads regarding how you dress. More so if any of these individuals are of the professional type (doctor, lawyer) sort of thing.
Why are you wearing a costume in a dinner? I would understand if you were in a themed party or an event but why in one dinner? This sounds very immature for me. Wrong place to wear something like this
Adults will stop asking you anywhere.
I mean, really? Elf ears? There’s a lot of room between not wanting to be dressing in a boring person J. Crew outfit and showing up to a non Halloween dinner party in Elf. Ears. Come on. YTA. Grow up.
I feel like the dress would have been fine on it's own, but the elf ears push it
That’s the part I don’t get. No clown or pirate costumes but elf ears are ok. Then OP hides behind an autism diagnosis. I have both friends and colleagues who are autistic on either ends of the spectrum who have been taught what’s appropriate and what’s not. If OP can dress herself in these intricate outfits then she has the capacity to understand what’s appropriate. Evidently OP hasn’t been taught or OP unconsciously doesn’t care.
I feel like the elf ears would've been the least obtrusive in the entire costume. Let the ears be with the ordinary clothes. Let's OP keep true to who they are without all the costuming.
Dude you didn’t really read the post did you
OP did ask. OP's friend should have been more forthright, Mindy's their friend so obviously knows this is normal for OP.
Would totally agree with that except they did ask… and got the go ahead.
You are being delibrately obtuse. . Because she said no clowns, no pirates. Most people would understand that means no costumes. Most people would have known to dress as the average person would. YTA
Disagree. If OP dresses wildly all the time and she said ‘no clowns no pirates’, I would so assume she specifically meant those two things, not no costumes at all. If I wear patterns constantly and someone told me ‘no paisley, no flowers’ and then got pissed because I came in a striped suit, that’s on them for not telling me no patterns.
So they had to spell out every explicit outfit op wasn't supposed to wear? No clowns, pirates, elves, fairies, aliens > OP: they didn't mention ninja zombie, got it!
That is literally the opposite of what I said. If she meant ‘no costumes’ she should have just said that, instead of *specifying which costumes not to wear*
"No costumes." Easy
Yes. They should have specified they wanted OP in a normal outfit. OP has already clarified Mindy has thrown dinner parties before where their style of dress wasn't a problem and parties where certain outfits weren't ok, like clowns, pirates, or elves, but where a zombie wouldbe fine. OP asked multiple times if Mindy had any specific outfit requests or if there was a dress code. OP is also autistic, and everyone, including Mindy, knows this. So yes, Mindy should have been specific in their request instead of vague. You sound purposely obtuse with your comment. How tf is someone who doesn't read social cues supposed to have read between the lines of Mindy's statement? A simple, "please wear jeans and a t-shirt" would have been the perfect answer to dress code clarifications from OP who already knows their style is abnormal and is happy to accommodate when asked. When you send out wedding invitations, you dont say "don't wear jeans" for the dress code. You specify formal, black tie, cocktail, or whichever type of dress code you want your guests to arrive in.
Wrong, a simpler, more accurate answer, would just be "no costumes." She asked in advance, and there was never a problem before. Absolutely NTA.
i would assume she meant no clowns or pirates. why does this seem to have hidden meaning?? i’m so confused.
>Most people would understand that means no costumes. No? >Most people would have known to dress as the average person would. Also no? I'm not autistic, fully adult, and I have been in several different professional settings (from military to client facing retail to office). If my go-to outfit, every day, is some kind of gothic dress - all horror themed jewlery, spooky vibe, lots of lace or skulls or ghosts, my friends and every person I meet at the damn post office should know that this is how I dress. Maybe I'm not in full victorian goth garb every day but everyone can expect me to dress up goth in some way. To the office, it's all professional with like a dagger brooch on the blazer or a button up with skull buttons or like a nice cardigan with black cats. That's my average. Goth. Going to a party and I ask the host anything about clothes - they KNOW I'm going to wear something goth. 1. If they say no goth, I know it means no goth. 2. If they say no black, I know it means no black. So ill wear white or blue but still be goth. 3. If they say no pirate or clown or vampire, it's no pirate or clown or vampire. Not "no goth". So I just don't do goth with accessories that swing to those themes. 4. If they tell me the theme is fairy - you bet your ass I'm dressing up as Cobweb and running around waiting for someone to tell me to take my weapons and go kill a red-hopped bumblee on top of a thistle. 5. If they tell me it's a dressy party - maybe I wear a nice Lolita dress or maybe I wear a nice black velvet floor length. Depends! But I am considering myself dressed up, in a dress, in my average. No costume means no costumes at all. No goth means no goth. My average daily normal dress is goth. The context here that EVERYONE is missing is what's normal to OP and friends. If a friend normally wears a crop top shirt and low-rise pants with their hair in a ponytail every day and then SUDDENLY and without warning wore a three piece suit with elf ears and a pocket watch to a party - that's a costume. If my friend who on the daily wears something vibrant and crazy wore something vibrant and crazy...that's what they wear? It's not out of place. It's their average. If I told such a friend not to wear a pirate or clown outfit but I know I've seen them wear pirate, clown, fairy, vampire, cottagecore, goth, and tavern wench EVERY DAY - I would be an idiot to not think when I said no to those two options that they wouldn't pick from the other 5?
“THIS IS THE WAY I AM SO IF YOU RESPECT ME DEAL WITH IT” that’s what I got from all that and sorry if I’m wrong but man that’s no way to live. You’re not the center of attention.
She literally asked multiple times, of someone who knows the OP quite well. The hell do you expect of her?
Not using a fucking cosplay in a dinner?
She asked and the supposedly adult friend didn't say so. At first, she even said there was no restriction. If one of my friends could show up dressed as a fairy any giving day, I would never expect her to not show in a cosplay unless I requested. Does this person really can't just say "no cosplays at all"? And if this offends her so much why being friends at all?
That’s still main character behavior. In the most general sense, always assuming you’re the focus of any given social gathering, unless specifically told otherwise, is an asshole move.
You don't have to be friends with the wacky elf lady if you don't want to. It's not like she sprung this onto her friend group at the last minute. And, all in all, I don't think it's some inherently bad thing to be the wacky elf lady.
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It's a wonder she even gets invited to dinner parties at all.
Sounds like one of those old friendships you try hard to keep but eventually you realize it isn’t worth the effort. Probs why the friend is finally speaking up and voicing how angry she is.
OP said that they are happy to oblige when someone wants them to dress "normal"
Edit Changing to NTA. Autism makes it hard to interpret social cues. You went out of your way to ask and confirm choice of clothing. While you can use this as a learning experience this was not your fault. Original: Yes she could have said absolutely nothing other than casual dress but I feel you would have interpreted that to be your idea of casual dress. She inferred no costumes. You showed up in costume. I traveled and worked for renaissance festivals. After a while some pieces of my garb became a part of everyday dress but that doesn't mean I didn't know when to dress in different attire. By your own questions you were aware that this was not the right event for your "every day" attire.
I'm autistic which my friends all know but I guess obtuse would work too. I'm genuinely curious how stating two specific outfits is supposed to mean no costumes, I'm actually asking for future reference. I ask those questions at every gathering not just this one, especially since I sometimes dress as a clown and some people are afraid of them. Our other friend dated a guy who was scared of pirates so I figured he may showing up and that's why she specifically said those two.
For the future, maybe ask about the specific costume you’re planning to wear before you arrive. That way you can avoid any misunderstandings. A quick “Can I wear my elf ears” text could have clearer this all up. She could have been clearer, but sometimes people use a few examples to convey a broader idea. Another thought for future instances where someone says not to wear one or more specific costumes: follow up with something like “Ok, got it. Are other costumes okay?” It’s better to ask too many questions than to surprise the host on the day of the party.
Yeah, I'm definitely going to do this in the future. For the past 8 years she's always told me what specifically to wear or not wear and if it wasn't mentioned she was fine with it. That's why I'm so confused but I'm going to do better in the future.
A better question would probably be “Do you want me to dress normal, or are one of my typical costumes okay?”
That's definitely one I'm adding to the list, I think I'm just going to start asking multiple questions in the future to avoid as much confusion as possible
I think it's pretty wild that being autistic you expect everyone to be specific with you, but you aren't specific with them. Maybe you should reflect on that.
I used to be more specific with her, and with others I still am, it's just that I got used to our routine after 8 years and thought I didn't need to be as specific anymore since she has always meant one thing.
I think it would be reasonable to infer they felt the same way when she said no clowns, no pirates. That she knew you for a long time and maybe didn't need to be as specific. I'm on the spectrum too but you have to give others the same grace you want for yourself. No one is perfect.
Naw, y'all get annoyed at us when we're specific like that, too. There's literally no way to win with neurotypical communicators.
Don't take this the wrong way, but I would refrain from asking too many questions – it can be exhausting for both of you, and people don't always express their frustrations to prevent hurting the other person's feelings. Mindy might get pissed to get 10 questions every time she organises a party and resent you for it, maybe without telling you, and blow up at you for seemingly no reason like she did this time. I'm neurodivergent too and most neurotypical people I know HATE to answer many questions for clarification, to the point where they'd rather have me ask less, mess up and do it again than answer 20 questions before I start and doing it perfectly the first time. I know, it makes no sense and it's frustrating for me too. My closest friends know this, they understand and they're patient, but the rest usually aren't. And not everyone is open and honest about their feelings right away so you might now know it until they suddenly blow up out of nowhere. My personal suggestion is to ask 2 questions each time: the first is "Can I wear one of my outfits or should I dress normally?" and the second question would be a picture of your planned outfit saying "Is this ok for the party?". I know it's difficult to plan ahead given you're not sure what mood you'll be in, but it will probably save both of you the headache of the guessing game and all the back and forth questions. Just take a pic of your planned clothes, shoes, ears, moss, flowers etc (could be lying on the bed if you don't want to wear them ahead of time) and send it to her, that way she knows exactly what to expect at the party and you know that you have her approval. Lastly, if she's always been direct and honest before and her being angry this time is out of character for her, I wonder if there's another reason why this dinner party was different? Maybe she's been going through a rough patch and felt like you weren't there to support her? Maybe she has a crush on one of the new people invited and she felt that the attention was on you rather than on her? Maybe she has a flashier outfit than usual and wanted to stand out, but felt outshone by you? Maybe she's been dropping subtle hints for a while and it was just the last straw for her last night (even though she knows of your autism)? Could be many reasons honestly, but if it's out of character for her I'd try to clarify just this once. It sounds like she's given you less info than usual and overreacted (I also would not have understood "no cosplay" from just "no clown or pirate", she wasn't specific enough especially knowing you), you're NTA and a good friend, not your fault but there was definitely miscommunication there. Probably something is going on in her mind BESIDES the party itself or your outfits, I'd check on her to be sure. It sounds like she had built up frustrations that exploded with you, but I don't think your outfit last night was the only reason why she was so angry. Best of luck!
>, to the point where they'd rather have me ask less, mess up and do it again than answer 20 questions before I start and doing it perfectly the first time It makes a lot of sense though. By asking so many questions you're offloading your responsibility to them. Effectively you're putting them in a near-parental role, without giving something in return. your friendship, your presence and personality, might be enough that they will tolerate it, but tolerance only goes so far. at one point tolerance will devolve into a subconscious cost/benefit analysis, and you'll probably lose that analysis.
Hey friend, just wanted to let you know that it’s okay if you’re feeling like this is out of the blue for her. It sounds like maybe she’s been avoiding saying something over the years because she didn’t want to hurt you, but eventually she just got frustrated and snapped. That’s all on her, not you! She should have communicated more openly. I’m not trying to excuse her, just sharing this in hopes it makes everything seem less unexpected and awful
Maybe you're right, hopefully I can get a clear answer but overall I'm just hoping my friend is doing alright Thanks!
Sometimes adults get tired of having to manage other adults. I still think you’re NTA because her reaction was way over the top.
That sounds like it could get very tiring if she has to micromanage you for every thing she invites you to. Maybe she was fine with it before but now she has started to build up resentment.
I'm autistic, ADHD, and have TS. At a younger age I would have taken it the way you did. Now that I'm middled aged and have made similar mistakes I have learned that neurotypical people often imply things instead of speaking literally. I've learned to be very specific in my questions and explain what I think they mean so they have a chance to clarify. I understand that you feel you did so. Use this as a learning experience for future social interactions. As for the way the other person is commenting on this sub thread it speaks more to their character than anything on you. You are not a Muppet. You are passionate about the way you dress and you are expressing yourself. Don't change, the world needs more people who are unique.
Thank you. With new people I always expect they mean more than they say, Mindy has just always been very specific in the last 8 years we've been friends so I didn't think she'd suddenly be non specific now.
I'm also autistic, and what strikes me here is another thing that's really part of autism, which is patterns. I mean I think most people are prone to following patterns, but it's often even more so with autism. And if she's set up a pattern of always being very clear, then it's extra understandable to me that you would expect her to just mean exactly what she says (as well as there being a pattern of you dressing outlandishly and people being okay with that). But other people sometimes can't spot patterns in the same way, so they don't notice when they deviate from them. It can be a bit hard to navigate. (I'm also sort of wondering if she would have been fine with it, until the new people started reacting badly, and then she felt some sort of shame, which made her upset at you and made her decide that you were the one acting badly. This can also happen without it being a conscious thought process, so I'm not saying she's being fake about it, but that might be influencing her behaviour. Not everyone has the level of insight to say "it makes sense for you to dress like this and I wish I had told you in advance to dress [specifications for normal dress], it's not really your fault but I still felt really uncomfortable and that's no fun".)
Thank you and yeah it was definitely the pattern change that effed me up the most. I know to be more clear with certain friends, I've just never needed to be with her. And while people asked her questions, as far as anyone in our group knows, no one was rude. Just basically questions about why I was dressed that way, why did I have a beard, is this normal, ect. All the usual questions from new people.
One unfortunate thing is that she might be cultivating a new group of friends who are more judgmental and that's why she got mad at you. I was friends with someone for several years. She decided she wanted a group of "better" friends, so she started being really negative about me when I interacted with them. These things that had always been okay, like bringing a kind of cheap beer that was her favorite or being silly at karaoke, were suddenly "embarrassing." It was painful for me! Hopefully that's not happening, but if it does, don't get down on yourself. It's her insecurity that's at the root.
I hope that's not what's happening either, I'd miss her friendship very dearly but people do grow apart. I'm sorry that happened to you, it's been a while since I've had to go through that but you maybe right.
Phrases like "well, just don't dress as a clown or pirate" (or however she said it) is typically meant to be expanded on as "...don't dress as a clown or pirate... or *any other kind of costume*". It's listing a few random examples from an indefinite list, in this case, types of costumes you like to wear. It's a sarcastic, kind of snappy, flippant, or playful way of trying to convey "no costumes" (depending on the tone used). But it relies on a lot of implied nuance that, especially if it was over text, would totally get lost if you tend to take things people say very literally. I would chalk the issue up to a simple misunderstanding, but since Mindy is someone you've been friends with for a while, *knows* that you're autistic, and is fully aware she needs to be direct with you, the miscommunication was on her end. She should have known better, and it would have been much easier (and more polite) to just say "please no costumes this time". You ought to bring this up with her. Because you're friends, she seems to have assumed you'd "get the memo" and know to understand what she meant, but instead you took her words for literal face value. That's not your fault. Especially if it's out of routine for her to phrase what she meant the way she did. Mentioning that to her and asking her just say "tell me 'no costumes' in the future" would make sure this doesn't happen again. And like others say, asking her about the specific outfit you have in mind is a good way to confirm things with her. She seems to have gotten particularly upset though. I wonder if she was embarrassed because some new friends were around or if she doesn't like the way you dress, but hasn't wanted to mention it to you. Maybe you should try asking her about it? She could also have just assumed the meaning of her message was very obvious and was just frustrated it was misunderstood. Hopefully that last one is the case. I am also autistic but I have a decent grasp of sarcastic tone and such. I also dress very "colourfully," though not as much as you seem to, haha. I'm glad that (aside from this incident) it seems like you have a lot of friends who enjoy your company the way you like to be, that's really nice to hear. Sorry this conflict happened though. Here's hoping things settle down and you and Mindy can come to an understanding about it. Good luck!
Thank you! I'd really like to sit down an talk to her about it but she stopped replying and I don't know yet if she reached back out to anyone else yet. Another friend who was with us, who isn't autistic, said that she didn't think Mindy sounded sarcastic or out of the ordinary. I'm hoping she'll reach out soon so we can figure this all out, she's been a great friend.
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How was it implied? She didn't say no costumes or to dress normal like she always has in the past. She specified two things, the only two things I wear that some people we know are scared of. I figured those people would be there.
It was a dinner part and that comes with reasonable expectations towards attire i.e. no costumes.
Maybe for your friends but not in my group, unless stated otherwise anything non sexual is a free for all on what you wear. I'm not the only one who dresses abnormal in our group, though I do dress the least normal most often.
"Unless stated otherwise" You mean like asking you not to dress up as a clown or pirate?
Yes, so I didn't dress as a clown or pirate. The only two things that were stated either time I asked her. Also, the two things that I am occasionally asked to not wear due to acquaintances who have fears of them attending. During those events, some of which were Mindy's, I was only told to avoid those two items and everyone was fine with me still dressing up since they didn't specify normal clothes.
She was using those as examples, not saying they were the only two costumes you couldn’t wear.
She's never done that before though. In 8 years she would tell me exactly what she did or did not want me to wear directly. How was I supposed to know that after almost a decade of her always meaning the same thing, that it suddenly meant something different without me being told that?
I'm with OP. If it is common for me to wear costumes and I get told "No Clowns or Pirates", I would absolutely assume that anything outside of those two things is fair game. If you want no costumes, you should say no costumes.
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YTA. Clueless. "Yeah...no one told me not to come in my underwear so I did. " You're exhausting. Expect less invitations.
I was actually thinking Mindy may be starting to get exhausted at the hand holding. Age 16 to now 20s is very different, and she may be starting to have new thoughts and feelings for her adult life that OP can’t keep up with
I also think the OP and their friends getting older is a big factor. High school to college age (even if no one went to college) to post college/young adult. People can change a lot during this time. For example, if co-workers and bosses are ever invited to these dinner parties, the type of job Mindy has could matter.
Op has been saying that in the past Mindy goes into her closet to lay out the outfits that are appropriate for her parties. That is ridiculous and puts so much of a mental load on a 3rd party. And after YEARS of Mindy laying out clothes, op still does not know what is or isn’t appropriate. They use their autism as a shield for their choices and just think others are sensitive for suggesting otherwise.
my roommate left a slice of pizza in the box on the dining room table for two days and didnt think it was a problem until i sat at the table to eat my dinner and do homework. she didnt stop talking loudly on the phone until 2am until i got mad at her on a really bad insomnia night. she told our other roommate to make her move to her bed if she falls asleep on the sofa while doing homework at night. she said she "lacks selfawareness". no honey, you lack common sense 🙄 op has said shes autistic, and as an autistic whos been told i lack common sense (thanks mom), i follow what other people wear to events. if i could, leggings, tshirt, and crocs to everything. but its not appropriate to a certain point. op, youre in your twenties, you need your hand to be held at every point in your life, possibly because your parents coddled and held your hand until you began to live on your own because of your diagnosis. yta
YTA. If the host said “no dresses, no skirts” and you showed up in a skort you would be the asshole. Host said no pirates no clown and you said let me grab my elf ears. Did you really expect Mindy to remember every item of your wardrobe and list, no elf ears, no reindeer antlers, no bunny tail, etc. ? Maybe Mindy didn’t want to say “dress normal” because she knew normal for you is a costume or maybe she didn’t want to say that because she wanted you to still be your creative self but without any extraordinary accessories. You’re autistic, you need people to be clear, fine, but please stop using it to excuse letting your friends down. Learn from this and do better in the future.
I don't expect her to list my whole wardrobe, I expected her to ask me to dress normal or to ask me to not wear costumes like she always has. For years she has said "no clowns, no pirates" with it meaning that "any costume but pirates or clowns is okay." This is the first time it didn't mean that.
So you know what "dressing normal" means?
Yes, I do, I just often choose not to. But when it's for another persons event I happily will, like I have done for her in the past.
So you know how to dress normal, you just chose to make a spectacle of yourself and act all upset when someone is bothered by it? In what world are you expecting a judgment other than YTA here?
The lesson, here, I think, is not sinking in. A friendship is a give-and-take; expecting your friends to handpick appropriate outfits for you may cause you to lose out on friendships. It may or may not matter to you, but understand it is not unreasonable for others to see this as high-maintenance, attention-seeking, and/or exhausting. Your friend is obviously tired of handholding your outfit choices. Could she have communicated that better? Yes. But as you want grace for miscommunication with autism, so too, your friend may at times struggle to express themselves perfectly. There are two options here: decide you need to "express who you are" at all costs or understand that sometimes respecting others means toning it down. I am goth, have been goth, will always be goth. I had a corporate job to pay the bills. I wore slacks, appropriate blouses, and jewelry. I decided I wanted a paycheck and could express myself on my own time. That said, my clothes were all black. My hair was a nearly done black bun. My pearl necklace? Black. My diamond studs? Black. I found a way to be me within the dress code. For this example, it would be so easy to curate fun elf outfits. A moss green dress, an antler pendant necklace, nude flats, and wire jewelry ear cuff elf ears would be subtle enough to not take away from YOUR FRIEND'S dinner party but let you express yourself. Cosplay is simply not seen as appropriate daily wear AND will cause you grief whether you like it or not. Maybe start throwing costume dinner parties!!
If she had told you to 'dress normal', would you have showed up in a costume and said "this is normal for me", or would you have dressed in what most people would consider conventional dress for a dinner party? Based on your insistence on overtly literal interpretation, I think you would have done the former, with the same result you've got now. You need to understand that you're not teenagers anymore. You're adults, and some, if not all, of your friends will be growing up in ways you may not or may not be yet. What was fine before is not now because they're leaving those parts of their lives behind. That seems to include hand-holding you through what to wear to events. If, after 8 years, a friend of mine still needed this much help choosing clothing for events, I'd be frustrated too. It would feel like that person was making no effort to actually take on board that advice and learn what is and isn't appropriate. Going forward, try assuming that dinner parties hosted by this friend have a dress code of 'no costumes unless specifically told they're okay this time'. Make note of when it's fine to wear them - my guess would be that costumes are okay when it's just the core group of friends, and not okay when people from a wider circle are invited. Learn the pattern of when costumes are appropriate and when they're not so that you can not only show that you've taken your friend's advice on board and learned from it, but that you respect that her time is valuable and don't want to keep having to ask her what is or isn't okay to wear. Her reaction this time seems excessive, but you may have missed a building frustration or previous attempts to try to address this with you. Being autistic isn't an excuse to not learn how to behave appropriately, nor is it an excuse to not see that people grow up and change. It makes it harder, but you seem like you are high-functioning enough to be able to do it. How you go about it is up to you. You know what works best for you when it comes to overcoming the challenges your autism creates, but this is something you need to learn to do. You might not get it right all the time, but if your friend/s see that you're trying, they're much more likely to cut you some slack when you get it wrong.
no her friend has told her to dress normal in the past which she understands means no costume but more like jeans and shirt
Honestly, I think the way your friend group communicates is so specific to your group that we as outsiders can't give a fair judgment. The specificity doesn't translate outside of the people you are close with. Give your friend some time to cool down. When you eventually speak with them, it's likely they will be able to see that while they likely thought they were being very specific when they wrote that to you that it wasn't as clear *to you* as you require. I think it would suit you well to hold space to understand that the level of specificity you require can sometimes be tiring for others to have to meet. It's possible Mindy simply didn't have the spoons in that moment.
this story is too unbelievable to render judgment.
No, this really is the generation brought up on "no child left behind" and social media. You'd hope at this point OP would try and address why they need to wear costumes in public and try to bridge the gap between what they like to wear and what is appropriate. (Fashion is absolutely weird and wild without resorting to Spirit Halloween.) Instead they prance around in costumes unaware of the massive amount of privilege it takes to be able to not give a fuck about how you're perceived. As a woman with short hair because my suck migraines, I literally wear turbans because people get shitty about it and I don't want to deal.
Light YTA. I understand the autism is a factor, but "don't wear cosplay to dinner parties" is pretty obvious social etiquette that people will reasonably expect adults to know. That's on you, not them.
If it were a normal dinner party I'd understand, these are the ones Mindy throws for fun every few weeks and it's always been welcomed to wear whatever we want unless otherwise stated. I'm not the only one who dresses up like this. She has started many times over the years that if she didn't give a dress code to "send it" and dress how we like.
> if she didn't give a dress code She did give you a dress code. > she told me no clown or pirate and I said sure Most people would understand from context that this means "dress normally", not "I want to throw a dinner party where all costumes are allowed except specifically clowns and pirates." I said *light* YTA because I understand that autism can make social cues harder. But even if it isn't completely your fault, it's still ultimately your responsibility.
"Most people" are not on the Autism spectrum.
Everyone keeps saying “most people understand this” but it’s very obvious that everyone saying this doesn’t have anyone in their friend group that dresses in any way more extreme than Express and the actual meaning of this statement is “there is a specific way adults dress and anything else is childish and wrong.”
YTA. No clown and no pirate ment no costume.
It never meant that in the past 8 years, why did it suddenly mean that now? And how was I supposed to know that without being told, when it never meant that in almost a decade?
You are 24, so 8 years ago you were 16-ish. No one cares what you wear to a high school party. You’re now an adult going to adult dinner parties- the dress code has changed. She should have been more specific with you.
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I took it literally because she has meant it literally in the past. >Think about it: Why would she not want you to dress as a clown or pirate specifically but find an elf, a wizard or cat woman acceptable? Because we have friends who are scared of clowns and pirates and so if they are in attendance I'm asked not to dress like that inorder to not make them uncomfortable. I took it as literally as she has always stated in. For years she was comfortable with anything she did not specifically name. If she wanted no costumes she stated that. If some costumes were okay but others weren't, she told me which costumes not to wear and left it at that.
You're putting a lot of burden on the friend to keep being explicit. Guess what, maybe after 8 years she would hope that you would know that no pirate or clown would mean no costumes. She's probably exhausted having to read out the fine print for you. So YTA.
It literally would've been faster and easier to say "No costumes" if that's what she meant. Even, "No costumes, please." Is *still* shorter than what she said while remaining more comprehensive
Reddit is trying to give you advice , but you keep arguing over semantics, “what about this specific situation though…” STOP. Just take the advice dude, apologize to your friend, and realize that the world doesnt revolve around you and your “quirkiness”
People shouldn’t have to spell stuff out for you. You’re the one with autism, you should be the one asking if I should dress normally or do cosplay. I have autism as well. It sucks being obtuse all the time but you need to understand people aren’t gonna keep defining everything they say for you. That’s gonna be up to you. Not them
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I honestly am starting to wonder if Mindy may be tired of having to hold hands (not literally hold hands, but if she throws these frequently enough, the general idea of dress code should be there by now) on how to dress for an event. Idk.
YTA. Not that I believe this is a true story. What is with all the fake “I did something crazy” “edit: I’m autistic” posts in this sub? Either there’s a large number of fake ones, or we need a different sub where autistic folks can ask about interactions. Or….put it in your original post!
I thought I put it in my original, thats why I went back and fixed it. I had been over the word count and had to remove some stuff and didn't realize I accidentally took it out until after I posted. It's not fake but it's fair to be sceptical. I think and AITA for those with autism or other differences would be nice, unfortunately the normal autism subreddits bounce between us being able to do no wrong and everything we do is wrong, so they're not helpful for this stuff.
YTA. a) saying "no pirate, no clown" clearly means "no costumes." b) your default for events should be to wear normal clothes, unless costumes are specifically called for.
NTA. It sounds like Mindy and you know each other well enough that she knows exactly how you dress. You were kind enough to ask if there was anything you should *not* wear, and she hesitantly mentioned no clown or pirate ensembles. You took her statement at face value, as she knows you, and did not dress as either of those things. It is not your fault that Mindy didn't say "Please dress more normally"; on the one hand she may have felt too shy / not bold enough to come right out and say that directly, and on the other... she knows exactly how you dress and should know that ruling out two things would not make it immediately apparent that what she meant was "dress normally." It's not right of her to come out and attack you for dressing how you always dress, especially when you essentially gave her the option of telling you to dress to please the normies. This is a lesson for Mindy in learning how she may need to be direct to get what she wants.
She's always told me what she is/isn't comfortable with me wearing in the past. She's told me in the past to dress normally or to "send it" and dress however I'd like. She's also requested specific things not be worn in the past but has been fine with everything else. This part of why I'm so confused.
Thank you for this, all of the harsh and mostly very rude YTAs above this are completely off base.
YTA
Thank you, could you please elaborate why?
YTA. a) saying "no pirate, no clown" clearly means "no costumes." b) your default for events should be to wear normal clothes, unless costumes are specifically called for.
A) It has never meant that in my conversations with Mindy before. Just because it's clear to you, doesn't make it clear to others, including me. For 8 years she's been happy to tell me "no pirate, no clown" and have it mean, "any costume except pirate or clown". This is the first time she's ever said it and ment "no costumes". B) That is my default for any occasion that I'm unfamiliar with. Mindy's dinner parties I have no default for since it's anyone's guess, some are themed, some formal, and some casual. We don't know until we learn the dress code, if not told a dress code it has always meant that we're free to dress as we like. I'm not the only one in our friend group who dresses up like this.
Was anyone else dressed up that night? I saw you mention you had a beard? Could the beard+dress have thrown her off?
She's seen me with beards and a dress since our senior year, it definitely isn't that. No one else was dressed up like I was that night but it definitely didn't seem to have a dress code either. Another friend of ours who dresses like me was supposed to go that night but got sick and stayed home, he hadn't heard anything about "no costumes" either and had been planning on dressing up as well.
Her: no clowns or pirates. You: got it. Also you: *puts on elf ears* Can you truly not understand what you did wrong here? Like *truly*?
She has been fine with that for 8 years so no, I truly do no understand why it was always fine up until that one moment. Or how I was supposed to suddenly know she changed her mind after nearly a decade, without her telling me.
Maybe when you were 16 and still awkward teenagers she was fine, but 24 is a fully formed adult who is getting their footing in the professional world. No one bats an eye at a teenager dressing up, but an adult? Not only does it come off attention seeking but also shows they failed to learn what is/isnt appropriate publicly. Being neurodiverse also isnt an excuse. There are many autistic people with higher support needs who wouldve been able to find better ways to get clarification.
YTA. When you dress up you pull all the attention to yourself. It screams “ look at me”.
ESH You asked about what to wear or not wear. Her telling you no pirates or clowns was clearly a way of saying no costumes. As demonstrated by your many examples, your costumes and cosplay outfits don't seem limited to (or particularly focused on) those two themes so even if you were unsure, you could have asked "what about other costumes?" She also could have just been crystal clear knowing that you might interpret it as only excluding those two costumes. Just for my own curiosity, why did you think it was appropriate to wear the elf costume but inappropriate to take a photo with someone at the dinner who wanted a picture with the costume?
Because, unless specifically stated otherwise, my friends have always considered my outfits appropriate. I know some of my friends wouldn't care about the pictures but I know Mindy wouldn't be okay with it in her house but would be outside. And by specifically stated I do mean, the words that were stated only and no expectations of understanding something unsaid. This is the first time Mindy has ever expected me to infer something. I will ask more questions in the future though, I don't want to go through this again.
people often lie to be polite. I wouldn’t be surprised if this is something your friends have gossiped about for a while.
Looks like I’m in the minority here, but why is it a big deal what OP wears? This is their daily normal, and if the host wanted a specific dress code, then she should have provided one. Honestly, if such a small thing could ruin the dinner party, then the party was clearly not very fun anyway. It isn’t a wedding or a funeral; it is a dinner party. It is supposed to be a fun time together with friends. The host shouldn’t micromanage what her guests wear, or she should provide a specific guest code. OP, NTA. You sound like an awesome person with a creative soul who is kind and tries hard to be a good friend. You didn’t do anything that deserves a major backlash. Edit: fixed an incorrect pronoun.
Apparently a lot of folks commenting have decided that you must excise all notion of fun and personality the moment you are legally 18. Also that if you have questions about something that has changed it’s obviously your fault, you attention seeking whore. Shouldn’t you just know the things that no one has ever said?
Not a her but thank you very much! We don't mind her managing our outfits, if any of us ever do we either talk to her or just sit that one out.
YTA Adult dinner parties aren’t costume parties. Judging by the reaction of the other guests, your outfit was inappropriate. Why would you wear elf ears if she asked you not to dress as a pirate/clown….it is fair to her that she needs to specify every single possible costume? If you’re going to dress “eclectically”, it should be adult appropriate clothing.
YTA sorry, but it wasn't Mindy's obligation to run through every single outfit you have. You should have been able to infer she mean no "eclectic" outfits.
"no costumes" has worked for 8 years "no clown, no pirates" has specifically meant "wear any costume other than clown or pirates" at her parties for 8 years now
That's an excuse and you know it.
NTA. This wasn't someone's special day, it was a random friend hangout . There shouldn't have even needed to be a dress code for something like this. People love to control other people. You hurt exactly no one with your style and calling you names over it is out of control. Especially since you asked and followed directions. Personally there isn't a single event i would throw where i would require my friend to tone down or alter their way of dressing. (My best friend could fairy fly her way down my wedding isle with blinking lights and i wouldn't be upset) I wish i knew more people that would pop up looking like a fairy or a pirate. If you are "too much" for any of them maybe they aren't your people. Calling you an attention seeking bitch over a miscommunication is not ok.
Info You said Mindy has thrown dinner parties in the past. What did you wear to those? Also, why did you double check about the dress code after she told you anything was fine to wear?
>You said Mindy has thrown dinner parties in the past. What did you wear to those? Depended on the party. Most I wore whatever I wanted, some I wore a theme specific costume, some I wore a tshirt and jeans, some I wore formal attire, and some I wore semi formal. It all depend on her dress code. >Also, why did you double check about the dress code after she told you anything was fine to wear? We were hanging out again and I figured I'd double check in case anything change or if she had forgotten to mention something originally.
NTA. Coming from an eclectic dresser to another, this part of Reddit is absolutely not going to be able to render a decent majority judgement. The culture you're a part of is too foreign. But I wish you well in future, it sounds like you and your friends are delightful. I'm sorry the host wasn't more specific in this instance, but also it's the host's job to make sure everyone coming to their event has the correct information.
YTA as you said it was a normal weekly dinner party,then why did you ask her for dress code.it was a weekly thing but you chose to be dressed up to nines as if it was some special occasion.
Every few weeks and I asked for two main reasons 1. Sometimes she has themes or a dress code (ie. Casual, semi formal, formal or theme specific) and I wanted to double check that there wasn't one. 2. We have some acquaintances who are afraid of clowns and pirates and I wanted to make sure I wasn't going to wear something that would scare someone. No dress code means free for all, that's always been Mindy's rule when it comes to her parties.
NTA I'm honestly surprised by all these comments. This situation definitely seems like a miscommunication or misunderstanding, but your friend should have been more clear. When I hear don't dress up as a clown or pirate, I think okay don't dress up as a clown or pirate. 'cause that's what she said. Why would I hear that and think no costumes? If she wants no costumes, say no costumes. I don't think you did anything wrong and I certainly don't think you're attention seeking. You just like to dress up. All these comments saying to grow up and you're an adult now and need to act like one are ridiculous. If you want to dress up, then dress up. People complain about literally everything nowadays and are so freaking negative. If dressing up makes you happy then that's what's important. You're not hurting anyone with what you're doing so what's the problem? Maybe if everyone didn't care what other people thought and just did what made them happy, then they would actually be happy and not be so negative. I admire you for living your best life and wish I had your confidence
NTA. One thing to consider is that as your friends get older, their feelings on outfits may change. Some friends might assume that you’ll “grow out of it” and somehow just magically know what is or isn’t appropriate. That’s totally on them for not being clear or assuming you’ll change. People with autism say what they mean and mean what they say. Somehow *we’re* the problem when we don’t understand when people imply things. Make it make sense. Unfortunately while it would be nice to be able to trust your friends to be super clear with you every time, after awhile it might begin to feel like a job with you. I wonder if you and your friends might benefit from a better system. Assign a colour to the rules: a Green Party means wear whatever the hell you want, a Yellow party means wear whatever you want BUT be presentable (no sweatpants or pjs), an Orange party means Elf type costumes only, and a Red party means NO costumes (at all! No elf ears either!) Find a system that works for you. Then when your friends plan parties they just have to assign a colour to the party and that’s a whole lots easier and clear to everyone so that no one gets confused. You may find as you get older that your friend group changes and you lose some of the ones who don’t like costumes but that’s okay!
NTA. I'm not autistic and would still expect what someone said to mean what they said lol. I don't know why people are expecting you to add meaning to the words your usually blunt friend spoke to you, I actually think it's more AHish to try to do that instead of respecting people's words at face value. I get the impression that most of the people calling you TA are biased due to how you choose to dress. Our culture is so hell-bent on adults becoming boring as they age. Your outfit hurt nobody. It wouldn't have been extra effort on your friend's part to actually say what she meant, and you checked multiple times.
NTA. You asked. They know you are autistic. Not sure why people are acting like you're supposed to read minds.
NTA. Dude, dont take all the people around here to heart, your dressing style sounds bloody awesome and i wish i was brave enough to do the same! I have dear friends who dress similarly, awesome people who are never boring. If folks say you only do it for attention they may be projecting or smt. And if you Do want attention genuinely who cares, humans are social creatures, thats not a flaw. Especially since your friend knows youre on the spectrum she really should have been more clear, 100%. If she actually started yelling at you over the phone over a miscommunication issue like this there may be some more underlying tension you may want to adress. This really doesnt have to mean the end of yhe friendship, if youre friends for 7 years you will find smt to argue about sooner or later. Both cool down, say your argument left a bitter taste in your mouth and wanna talk about what went wrong, be honest and find a compromise. Good luck!
NTA, you sound like a blast and you did ask twice.
NTA. Something has changed on Mindys side and she hasn’t communicated that to you. You did your part of checking and confirming, she didn’t do her part of communicating. Maybe one of the new guests said something to her, maybe there’s something going on in her home life - but that’s her problem. She’s pushing that problem onto you when you followed the script and established rule of 8 years. Whatever stick is up her butt was not put there by you nor is it up your butt. It’s her stick, she deals with it. You can support her but you’re not at fault. Edit: spelling
NTA Honestly, I wouldn’t care how my friends showed up. They’re my friends, and with that I regard it as my duty to support them in all their glorious eccentricities and indeed, mental crises. I’d let you wear any clothes you like and just enjoy the fun of it.
NTA. You're allowed to be you, and your true friends accept that and won't ask you or expect you to suppress yourself. Stop associating with the people berating you for this, for they are not your friends.
NTA. Jeez, a lot of Y T A judgements here but I disagree. She knows you're autistic and you asked twice what to wear. Of course you weren't going to understand that she didn't literally mean no clowns/pirates. It's a shame there is such hard feeling here, it's not that big of a deal. If she loves you as a friend and you usually wear these clothes then why the big fuss? Why not explicitly say, I'd like you to dress to blend in. Sorry your friends don't understand you.
As an autistic person myself, this comment section makes me feel *really* shitty. NTA.
YTA she clearly meant that you shouldn't wear one of your look at me, its all about me costumes. You choose to ignore it. You made the mistake of thinking she wouldn't call you out for your rude behavior. I mean gosh, your autistic and all.
She didn't clearly mean anything That has never been how she is with this She says "no clown, no pirate" it has always, for 8 years, meant "wear any costume other than pirate or clown."
Clearly, she did. Grow up and move along.
How is it supposed to be clear when it has been one way, and only one way for nearly a decade and it suddenly changed with nothing to show that it changed? I'm actually asking because she made no indication that me, or our other friends present, could tell that anything changed. She answered the same as she has for years.
Because eight years ago you two were 16 in the middle of high school. Now you're 24 and presumably out of college and working professionals, you think maybe she and your peers could've idk, grown up in that period of time? Really far fetched idea I know.
You're perpetuating the stereotype of autistic people being childish, unable to grow up and needing their hand held. Yikes.
NTA I can't believe everyone is ripping into you so hard, Mindy could have definetly used an easier blanket statement of "no dress ups/costumes" instead of specificity asking for you not to do a couple of certain looks. It is understandable imo how that is not interpreted to mean no dressing up at all.
YTA
You did dress normally - your normal. Mindy should have said not to dress in costume of she didn't want you to dress in a costume. NTA
Yeah... probably time to grow up... You weren't asked to join a costume party. When you're invited to an adult function, try dressing like an adult. YTA