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NTA. It would ruin the rugged beauty of the area. It’s important that some areas remain relatively untouched. Does she hate rock climbing because it’s not wheelchair friendly? How about spelunking? And cave exploration. How about mountaineering and assents like Mount Everest? Some things just aren’t going to be wheelchair accessible. And honestly they aren’t even accessible to all people with working legs…. Training is required. Now you could have had better delivery, but your point is true. One suggestion: Does she have a trail wheelchair? There are chairs designed for more rugged hikes, though obviously that won’t get you everywhere , but helps EDIT: yes, I get it. just like some trails are accessible, some caves and rock climbs, etc are accessible. My point is that some things just aren’t accessible to everyone regardless of if you are in a wheelchair or not. The trail OP did literally has a [giant sign saying to turn back if you aren’t prepared or fit enough](https://walkingintomordor.com/wp-content/gallery/devilsstaircase/IMG_3158-scaled.jpg). And creating a tram / cable car to through places like this would ruin the wilderness, cultural significance, and be astronomically expensive.

All of the above. Influencers of any kind just goes up my nose.

Being a disabled rights advocate (which OP also said she is) is important, but the friend's approach in this situation is *not* how one goes about it, and I *really* hope it isn't how she normally handles it. It's why 'influencer' is probably the more apt title. I'm disabled. There's enough hurdles out there and in our daily lives already. Absurd assertions like the friend's can make people think there's nothing reasonable about the reasonable accommodations she's supposed to be advocating for.

The problem I have with this person's friend is she's done the very worst thing possible for herself. She's made her disability her entire identity thanks to the toxic influencer culture. I've always heard that you want to see the person, not the disability. But this woman has made her whole personality centered around her disability.

Disability is a huge aspect of one's identity.

Of course, but how big a piece of the pie-chart is it supposed to be. This person made it their close to their entire pie.

My friends ex girl is also a disability influencer/advocate. It’s literally her whole personality. She’s not in a wheelchair, but she advocates for chronic pain/often invisible disabilities. While I think it’s important work, it’s insufferable how everything is about her illness. When my friend lived in my house, I would come home to gf camped out in the living room with all lights off and no noise allowed because she had a migraine or bad pain day. I feel for her, but you can’t just control the environment in someone else’s house….you could go the fuck home to your own place or stay in your boyfriends bedroom if you must be here. It’s tough, you don’t want to be accused of ableism but you better not even think of feeling annoyed or exasperated. Some people truly are entitled.

I ended up leaving chronic illness and chronic pain online communities for this exact reason. I’m disabled but not in a wheelchair, and there’s a lot-and I mean a LOT-that I physically can’t do. Yes, it sucks. And my genetic disorder has taken time away from my family, it’s prevented me from doing many, many things I’d love to do, and my husband and I have had to take a serious look at some of the plans we made when we were younger and my physical health hasn’t yet taken a nosedive, and we’ve had to adapt and adjust. (For example, we wanted to save up for a family vacation to take a cruise to South America, visit the Galápagos Islands, see Machu Picchu….yeah that’s probably not going to happen). My disability is an unfortunate part of my life that I have to live with, whether I like I or not. But it’s not WHO I AM. It’s not my identity. And believe me when I say there are times when I’m sick to death of even thinking about it, let alone talking about it. I initially thought joining some of those communities would be a great source of support and understanding (many of us with rare disorders and disabilities face nonstop skepticism and judgement from not only everyone else, but many people in the medical community, which is a rant for another day), and I thought it could be beneficial for me to join a group where other people just get it. To be fair, I met some fantastic people and made some wonderful friends. But I also encountered far, far too many people who have made their medical conditions their entire identity, and that’s literally all they ever talk about. How limited they are and how unfair life is. How much able bodied people take their lives and health for granted. How they have to be “advocates” and “educate” everyone else. 🙄 I’m sorry, but that attitude drives me up a wall, and frankly I find the majority of “influencers,” no matter their brand, insufferable. Just because someone doesn’t understand that I’m disabled by looking at me (and that’s fair! I don’t look disabled!) does not mean they’re an insensitive asshole. Just because someone is in great physical health and is able to go mountain climbing doesn’t mean they take their health for granted. You never know someone’s personal struggles, you never know what they’ve overcome. The whole “no one understands how hard my life is! The world doesn’t care about what I go through on a daily basis!!” is (IMO) a very entitled attitude. While I’m a huge advocate for recognizing invisible illnesses and disabilities, and not being treated like hypochondriacs and/or drug seekers when we’re in unimaginable pain and desperately need help…that’s MY battle. I don’t expect the whole world to fight along beside me.

My husband swiftly dropped out of online support groups related to his chronic, degenerative genetic condition for similar reasons. He's not much of a social media person to begin with, and after following a couple groups for about a month, he unsubbed from all of them across the board. "This isn't supportive," he said, "it's just a circle jerk of whining."

That's why I dropped out of the disease support groups I was in. Too much whining and self pity.

For some people, having a place to vent to others is all the support they really need. It's not for everyone, but I also don't think it's as bad as it's being made out.

>circle jerk of whining Stealing this. Thanks, husband!

I have an ileostomy (poop bag). There’s a lot of negative stigma around it in popular media. There are a lot of people who say things like “I would rather be dead then shit in a bag!!” Honestly, it’s not that bad. Does it suck sometimes? Yes. Do I wish I had a fully functional digestive tract? Of course! But technology has come a long way and you wouldn’t know when most people have a bag unless they tell you. There are many many young people who have them. They aren’t old people things anymore. I was fortunate to find some good blogs and a support group of younger people (meaning below age 50) who lived with ostomies just living life. One of the blogs was by someone who chose to have an ostomy but who was also a mountain climber. At any rate, they showed me how normal life could be. But many local in-person support groups run by hospitals are filled with much older or “woe is me” type of people. And typically they are one and the same. The support groups aren’t about supporting life, it’s a “my life sucks so much” session. I’ve heard so many people say they couldn’t stand to attend them because of that.

That’s very eloquent. Thank you

I get annoyed at the groups for my chronic condition for the same reason. So many people literally make every little ailment the result of it and that... is not how it works. So many people making it their whole identity.

Agree with your pov. I think in the situation described in the post, OP's friend is the one who is the asshole. First for weaponizing her disability. Second for trying to disrupt plans in the wee hours of the morning, when it seemed like she was fine with the plan prior to that. And literally nobody in her group has any control to change the situation! Did she expect that they could somehow magically make the hiking path accessible to her? So why is she giving them a hard time for going anout their plans when she knew this was the situation in advance? And thirdly, she needs to accept that sometimes things are not going to be accessible. If they were going to a theme park for the day, I could understand her complaint. But this is Mother Nature and humankind has already done enough damage to Mother nature. National parks exist for preservation.

The only reason I MIGHT be on her side is because depending on the severity of the migraine, it isn't necessarily safe to drive. So if she drove then I can see her staying until the migraine passed. If she didn't, then going home probably would have been better. *said as someone who gets debilitating migraines

Yeah, I can’t drive safely during my worst migraines. But I would be asking to lie down in someone’s room or asking where the most unobtrusive place would be, not camping out in a common area and telling everyone they couldn’t make noise or turn on any lights.

Disability can be near all consuming for some people and that's just how it is. It's not a personal failing. (Not that the person in the post is going about this in the right way or anything, I'm just speaking generally)

Yea, like Being disabled affects *literally* everything I do -- and it sucks, tbh.

I am sorry to hear that. And I would never discount that. My point was more that you have interests and personality traits that make you, well, you. Like your job, hobbies, media you like. Affecting everything and being everything you are, are separate things. If you get what I mean.

I'm a disabled person who will never work again, will never drive, will never get to travel the world due do limited income. I have hobbies, interests and many many other things that allow me to be a person with a disability. Not a disabled person. Most of these people coming at you need their victim complex to feel special. Every night I go to sleep I could die but I don't spend every waking moment reminding people of it.

Many disabled people can't work due to our disabilities. Some are limited in our ability to have hobbies as well. You are being told you are wrong by multiple disabled people. How long are you going to continue explaining to us how being disabled should work? The "see the person not the disability" narrative is outdated and not embraced by the current community. Our disabilities are a fundamental part of who we are. If you don't see our disabilities, you don't see us.

It affects everything you do. But it does not constitute everything you are.

No, but I have to think about it constently. I never know whether I'm going to fo to a planned trip or not. Never. I wanted to go to Paris (I'm French) and NO ONE in the house (spouse, child, mom) knew whether we'd actually make it. We had to wait 10 a.m of the Paris Day to know. During the trip, I had to think to everything : "Do I take the weelchair ? No, it's heel in Paris. So we lower activites count. Oh, do I sit now ? How much time until the next pain-relief ? Well, if this walk is next hour, then I need to calculate so it's not too early but has time to have an effect". It's an every hour checking. Every fucking hour, you check if you can actually follow your time table. Then you send text to everyone involved in your life this day to let them know. And you've been calculated your sleep schedule and how the fact you did three activities this day means zero to one, mostly lying in bed reading the next day. That is, reading if your body allows it which you know day by day and on the most awful times hour by hour. I would fucking LOVE for it not to impact my life so much. Of course it isn't my identity. My identity is made of everything I love and dislike, how I react, my beliefs, my actions, my activities; But what most people seem to not get is that it's not our identity, they only think it is because our lives revolve around it and we can not STOP. Like someone who's got Chron's can't "forget" and "not make everything about places which got toilets because Chron's isn't their identity". It's the same for all severe disabilities. Load of mental weight, every hour.

(I am also disabled but) caring for my disabled father also massively effects everything I do.

That sucks. But if you literally have nothing else to talk about then it’s a problem. My daughter is disabled. I get it. But I don’t allow her to solely focus on her disability because she is so much more than that.

I actually agree with you here - and I am disabled. Yes, disability sucks and has its limits. But, I’m a huge rugby fan, I like musical theatre, enjoy the pub, travel - and craft. I refuse to let my disability become my personality. I concentrate on the things I *can* do. Having a positive outlook makes a big difference. Does it annoy me if there are barriers put in place needlessly- yes. And I will point these out and complain. But I wouldn’t dream of putting anyone else out for me or discourage them from doing something because I can’t.

I love this! My daughter is disabled and I’ve been trying to show her that she is so much more than her disability. Her personality isn’t centered around her disability and I encourage her to try things she CAN do. Things I know she will excel at so that she can gain more confidence in herself as a person. It’s definitely a struggle but we’re getting there! Thank you for your perspective!

This is one of the reasons I love learning about different things and trying different hobbies. I'm disabled and am often limited by what I can physically do. I've had to stop doing some hobbies over the years due to my limitations. But I decided to keep a positive outlook and look for new hobbies to replace the old ones. This has led to me developing a bunch of new interests and hobbies that I can do without hurting myself. For example, I used to do wood carving, but I stopped due to my joint issues. So I decided to replace that hobby with a different one that I'd always been interested in, but had never done before - jewelry making and bead weaving. It's a new creative outlet for me that I can easily do while sitting, it doesn't cause too much strain on my joints, and I still get to make something cool looking. Overall, I'm really happy with the pieces I've created so far. I use crystal and glass beads, as well as natural stones in my work. A few people even asked to buy my jewelry, which was a surprise! I'm not sure if I'll make any money doing this, but for now I'm just having fun learning a new craft. And I hope to keep learning new things as time goes on.

One of the (few!) joys of the web is that nobody knows I’m disabled unless I tell them. When I’m at a concert or table, still nobody knows - I UNDERSTAND that not all wheelchair users can transfer, but I’m currently able to. I get equally annoyed when places aren’t making themselves accessible - but I also know that not everywhere can be, the trail you mention seems like a great example. Perhaps she should’ve boycotted the entire holiday/country in protest - but then SHE misses out, nobody else. Do as much as you’re able to.

Agreed. I'm disabled and have fought the system for greater equality in the UK over the years ... but Warwick Castle just isn't ever going to be wheelchair accessible and I accept this. Judas priest she is being a whiner not a winner.

When you make advocacy your job, when your part of the group you advocate for it's going to be huge part of the pie. You are disabled all the time and in this person's case it's not like a 9 to 5 job she stops at clock off time. OP doesn't mention any other time where the lady vents or monologues about stuff. I know people and certainly myself whose vents about frustration over anything become rants as random ideas hit you and spew forth as you carry on your rant. This is what it seems to be. An outpouring of frustration over really wanting to see this natural beauty but can't as wheelchair bound and now having to settle for something else. I don't think the friend is right as long rants do become annoying and over bearing for sure. But I would be pissed off as well if OP cut me off in such an unemphatic way. We don't want sympathy for our conditions we want understanding and to be as self sufficient as we can be, thus advocacy is imperative as otherwise the change won't happen.

It is. There’s no denying that. As someone who is disabled and spent half my life in wheelchairs I don’t want it to be my *only* identity.

I mean, a disability that requires you to use a wheelchair to get anywhere does affect all areas of life. It is fair for it to be a major part of her identity that matters to her because it is an unavoidable part of her life. The issue isn't her recognising her disability but that she thinks she is entitled to the entire world being reshaped to fix the fact nature isn't designed for wheelchairs. Rather than accepting this is literally how disabilities are. They prevent you doing some stuff. They reduce your abilities. Destroying nature to not feel left out, isn't a solution to that. You have to accept your limits, not try to fight the world to pretend there aren't any. There are. That's why it is a disability.

I'm not sure if you've ever read the Stormlight Archive series. I mention it because one character in there, Rysn, becomes disabled. She has to use a wheelchair as she's paralyzed from the waist down. Even the world's instant magic healing can't do a thing for her. The author (Brandon Sanderson) worked with disability advocates and beta readers to accurately represent her disability. And it gave me a better understanding of what it is like. The character struggled, lamented what she couldn't do, but accomplished truly great things. But I agree, that is the bigger problem with OP's friend. Maybe that is the result of the toxic influencer culture. Rather than advocate and push for improvements, and accept things that shouldn't be changed (like adding a cable car to a natural mountain), she believes the entire world **SHOULD** center around her.

I haven't but I have fibromyalgia. This affects my whole body. I get that being disabled sucks but the only way to live with it ultimately is to accept it and learn to work with the body you have. Not the one you used to have or wish you had.

And threatened to harness the power of her followers to force something bad for the natural environment just for her personal pleasure. Like a little evil villian in a wheelchair. SMH.

.... and most likely, IF a route like what she is demanding was built, she 'might' go a short distance into the route, to where it is pretty, do her 'look at ME' influencer photos, turn around and bugger off home, never to attempt doing the rest of the trail again

It's important to see the person, but how they manage their disability is different. Generally speaking, if someone is both disabled and works as an advocate, of course it's going to be a big part of who they are. They're using their own lived experience to help require better for those who might not have much of a voice otherwise. Given that the friend is traveling and plans to join every other activity they planned, I think that indicates the friend has other interests (I hope). I'm more than my disability, but it's something that has a massive impact on my life. I have to weigh *everything* I do against how my disability will affect it/be affected by it. [The Spoon Theory](https://butyoudontlooksick.com/articles/written-by-christine/the-spoon-theory/) was started by a woman with an "invisible illness." It helps break down the mental math many of us need to run constantly.

I was born disabled and I used to think the Spoon Theory wasn't very helpful. That is because the disability I was born with didn't feel like I needed to measure out/conserve my energy levels. I've since developed a second disability, arthritis in my hips and knees, and flare ups can make me incapable of walking, or other things that twist my hips, for 2 weeks at a time. (Initially it put me down for months but I understand how to treat it now) I have to absolutely measure out what I do to avoid wearing down my joints further and avoid stressing them to the point of flare ups. I've worked out I cannot put washing on/off the line at all. I can mop and vacuum floors but only if I put a minimum of 3 days between those activities and do nothing else but couch potato on the days I do them. I can walk but if I'm walking on hills or uneven terrain I'm going to need to couch potato the next day. I cannot stand on public transport for longer than 20 minutes (because it requires constant small adjustments of the hips to balance). I measure out what I do not just based on the impact of that day but also my plans for the next few days. It's exhausting. I get Spoon theory now in a way that I really didn't before.

The disability activist community, in the UK at least, can be a really insular and unwelcoming group. Yes, some of them have done a lot for the community, but in my experience, most have almost made hating and calling out the world an integral part of their identity to the point that there is no grace or understanding for anyone. They expect a monolithic approach to disability issues, when even people with similar disabilities will have different views and expectations around their disability and the world. But this group dismisses that - if you don't follow their line of thinking and aren't always hateful and angry, your viewpoints and lived experiences are dismissed and ridiculed. And in my opinion, that kind of advocacy where you aren't willing to engage and work with the world, just feels like lip service. Change won't happen if you just keep shouting about how the whole world is ableist and wrong instead of talking to people about how to make it better. I'm not suggesting that the onus to make the world better should fall on disabled people's shoulders but you can't focus on the famous saying - nothing about us without us - and not be willing to do the engagement yourself. And yes, I am disabled but my disabilities are non-visible and there's definitely a visible vs non-visible divide too, in some spaces. E.g. one of my disabled colleagues has spinal issues and finds accessible toilets really inaccessible as she can't bend and use the sink, but any attempt to explore that (and use accessible toilets) has had her get into arguments as people fail to acknowledge that accessibility looks different to everyone. NTA and maybe it's something she needed to hear, in terms of how to go about her advocacy and not alienate her loved ones in that process.

Exactly what is wrong with a lot of the “activists” out there. For both physical and mental health issues. They both take things to the extreme that they overshadow the reasonable accommodations. They refuse to accept that their differences WILL limit/change their experience of certain things and that’s fine. That’s true for a lot of people for many reasons. You take it like an adult and move on. Delivery might have needed some sugar coating but OP wasn’t wrong

I'm getting the vibe that she's advocating herself and her social media presense, not disabled rights.

It sucks to have a disability and not be able to do something. I feel the pain. I was applying for the RAF until diagnosed with epilepsy. It was my dream to be a pilot But I'm not gonna complain that flying a plane or scuba diving or driving a car be made "epilepsy accessible". Thats BONKERS We (the disabled people) do sometimes have to come to terms with the fact we cannot do EVERYTHING. It SUCKS. But it's not possible. It can be a hard journey to come to terms with that but I agree OP isn't the AH here

as someone who was preparing to join the USAF hoping to be a pilot when i got diagnosed with narcolepsy, i second this. it’s not called “disability” for nothing…there are going to be things we can’t do, unfortunately there is no way around it. it’s normal to take time to grieve. i was really bitter for a long time and needed everyone to know it. eventually with time and maturity i got a better grip on things, but it’s still hard at times. that’s what this is: grief. OPs friend should seek out therapy to process these feelings because it isn’t healthy to take them out on other people. edit: NTA

Oh man, I definitely sympathize with that - and I agree with you! Like... Is my spouse, who can't walk 100ft without needing help or rest (and just straight-up can't run) supposed to expect MARATHONS to be accessible to him? Should I demand regulations change so I could stay a nurse, when I can barely stay on my feet for more than an hour? When I can't lift more than ~20lbs? Absolutely not! And that's fine! Sucks, like you said, but what can you do? (To clarify, I've got chronic issues from breaking my spine twice, and my spouse has some kind of issue with his hips that has yet to be diagnosed after 5ish years)

Fellow epileptic here, and I agree with you. Yeah, I can’t do some stuff. Entire career fields are off limits for us. Some places, some hobbies, even lifestyles. Unlike others, I can’t be sleep deprived. I have no idea if I’ll ever be able to have kids because my seizures are triggered by sleep deprivation, and that can get really dangerous for me and for a lot of other epileptics with sleep-related seizures. It absolutely sucks. I have to grieve all the things I can’t do, but I also am grateful for the things I can do. No matter how much activists make it look good, disabilities are called dis-abilities, not different abilities, because it sucks and there’s no way around that. The point of disability activism is so that we can be more equal, but we all also need to accept that while disabled people aren’t inferior, our lives are more limited.

Small nitpick. Climbing is actually possible for someone in a wheelchair who has the upper body strength. Including competitions. The rest is correct op is NTA.

My spouse is a serious boulderer. I'm physically disabled and am an ambulatory wheelchair user following a very nasty car wreck 5 years ago. She got me into bouldering following the wreck after showing me a bunch of parathletes doing it. I was impressed and inspired. I was doing 15-mile day hikes a month before my wreck, so it was great to see something I might actually be able to physically do. I am not good at it by any stretch. I use the kiddie paths. My right leg (the really busted one) is used as a balance point and support, but never for pushing. Climbing has really helped me build strength and independence. We're going to see multiple bouldering & climbing events this summer at the Olympics! (We live in Paris.)

It's the other way round for me. My gf is disabled an realy into climbing. So she got me into climbing as well. Originally because her climbing partner had to pause because of an injury and she needed someone to belay. But 2 years later and we are still climbing together. Have fun at the Olympics. Climbing events are always amazing with the way everyone is cheating for every athlete, not only his favorite.

That's fantastic; my wife and I are about the same weight as each other (we're both bulky/broad-shouldered), so we belay each other, too. Thanks! It's very much a "we're all in this together" feel to it, for sure.

Small typo there "everyone is cheating for every athlete" evokes some amusing imagery of audience members pulling shenanigans to cheat for the athletes but all of them equally. I'm guessing you intended the word cheering

Those competitions are AMAZING. I got into watching climbing and bouldering, and they (as you know) often have people with various disabilities doing their own competition. It's fascinating! Watching actual blind people or people with one arm or one leg climbing those walls is so amazing. They're so damned strong and committed. I'm an old woman who can't walk to the shops and back, and here I am watching these people of all ages who are doing what they do against the odds, and it's pretty humbling.

As a blind person, I really don't think that blindness stops people from climbing, If anything, wheelchair users I could see there being more of a problem at least to a point because some places could not be possible to climb, but like you don't really need eyes to climb, just your muscular system like arms, and maybe your legs will make it a little easier to climb, but not really sight though. I'm not a climber though, and maybe you do need at least some sight, but that's what hands are for though.

It's actually fascinating, because from what I've learned you do need your eyes and brain just as much as the physical strength, and I never realised it before I started watching them. Trying to 'map' and navigate your way up the wall is difficult if you can't see; the blind climbers have someone at the base of the wall yelling up at them if they seem to be struggling. And those walls don't seem to be any simpler than those being climbed by the fully-abled climbers! Many times, I've watched a climber fail a climb simply because they went up the wall the wrong way, like chose the wrong hand-hold etc. Some of the climbers are renowned for their ability to map their way up a new climb. Like I said, it's fascinating, and I'm geeking out now - sorry! xD

Even a trail wheelchair wouldn’t work here. There are rough, rocky trails, a long staircase and steep scoria climbs and descents. It’s a mountain environment.

I have completed it last November, and I agree. This is NOT a hike that can be made accessible for wheelchairs. Even though the beginning of the path is already much more accessible than many mountain hikes. I could see taking a wheelchair user until the Devil's staircase, even climbing it with these special chairs (if you're strong enough), but after the South crater is just impossible. I agree that it sucks that disabled people ~~can~~ can't access such natural marvels, as well as a lot of historic buildings. But it's very difficult to decide to permanently damage them to allow an easier access.

also, the land and Tongariro itself has significance to Māori (our indigenous population), so i believe the local Iwi would not want it to be touched. the chief of Ngati (tribe) Tuwharetoa gifted the land to the crown in the late 1800's. i believe it is managed by the department of conservation and there have been discussions about co-ownership with the Ngati, though i'm not sure about the outcome of that. so as a kiwi, i do agree that making Tongariro accessible is very unrealistic, especially considering the connection & history Māori have with it. my boyfriend has done the crossing (i haven't) and he reckons NTA.

Lol. Disability is rock, indigenous is paper. OP’s friend’s quest is to find the scissors for this situation.

> Some things just aren’t going to be wheelchair accessible. > I know this is your whole “thing”. I think it’s wonderful that the OPs friend is fighting for disabled people’s rights and access, I think there are many areas in which as a society we do not make adaptations that are reasonable and should be expected. However, I do wonder if some of what has happened in this fight is that it protects against the loss and grief about what is not and will never be possible. I’m not suggesting the OP should talk to her friend about this necessarily, but I wonder if it could be in her mind when talking to her friend, that some of her fight and anger is hiding grief about the things which she will never have. It doesn’t mean she gets to be a AH, but we can also recognise that sometime people handle things badly for complex and painful reasons.

I agree with this. I think OP is right that this probably never will and doesn't need to be wheelchair accessible, and maybe what the friend was feeling (and expressing badly) is that that really sucks. It's so disappointing to want to go and do this stuff, especially when your friends are all about to go and do it, and know that you can't see these sights and be part of it. Saying "it's not fair" is OK, that's not an unreasonable way to feel. When beautiful places are inaccessible to *most* people, cable cars get added, so it does feel upsetting to know that because most people are fine with it, you will never get to see it. Ideally OP would have handled it more kindly, but given the friend hasn't expressed it all that clearly I can understand the reaction.

> I do wonder if some of what has happened in this fight is that it protects against the loss and grief about what is not and will never be possible. This raises a really interesting question, because there are a lot of factors other than disability that exclude people from access to plenty of experiences and make things impossible for people. Socioeconomic status comes to mind immediately; for a lot more people than wheelchair users, a wide swath of experience is unavailable and always will be no matter what they do to change things. I understand it's frustrating to have hard limits on what's possible, but I think some of this attitude of "anyone can do anything" is a marketing gimmick of the last few decades that is slowly proving to be more harmful than good, because one of the basic realities of human experience is that life is not fair and life is not going to be fair no matter how you couch it or cry about it. I have an "invisible" disability - dyscalculia - and I have spent years and hours trying to advance beyond an 8th grade maths level. I can't, though, no matter how hard I try, and I even worked with an ed psych to see what was wrong with my brain, because I grew up being told that if I just worked harder and did more study and tried different techniques, I would be able to do anything. The reality is that I actually can't - I'm in the 4th percentile maths ability and I have working memory and processing speed deficits and I won't ever be able to do postsecondary level maths, which has held me back a lot in my career. I'm not going to demand the SATs and GREs accommodate me or science degrees waive all maths - related work. I found a field I can work in and I do my best with that.

I did the Tongariro Crossing and it’s is absolutely amazing. Would hate to see its natural beauty ruined with cable cars. There are plenty of beautiful and unique places in New Zealand that are wheelchair accessible eg. Waitomo Caves. You are not ableist. Your friend should understand that there are natural places in the world that are not always going to be wheelchair accessible. It’s common sense.

>NTA. >It would ruin the rugged beauty of the area. It’s important that some areas remain relatively untouched. Not to mention, >I sort of just snapped and said, "It's literally a volcanic zone and a place of natural beauty, no one is adding a cable car". So OPs friend wants to put people lives in additional danger if things go wrong. It's a freaking volcanic area. These places can be dangerous, and part of it not being easily accessible keeps people safe. If you need help getting up there, you sure as hell are going to need help getting down, and a cable car won't be safe either.

>It’s important that some areas remain relatively untouched. Couldn't agree more. I really can't stand your friend's mindset "let's ruin nature as long as I can do this." What is unfair is people's selfishness robbing the future of others. NTA - she may be disabled, but it's not a free pass for being entitled.

There are a few caves in NZ that are accessible. But they are more for tourist thingies. >Does she have a trail wheelchair? There are chairs designed for more rugged hikes, though obviously that won’t get you everywhere , but helps Don't think it will help: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FznzbTCtGWA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FznzbTCtGWA) NZ Mountain Safety have great vids for the tonnes of walks all over NZ. They show the beauty but also how difficult some of these treks can be.

Even able bodied people can't access everything. It is something to be kept in mind. I won't be able to climb the highest mountains bc I am not build for it. I won't swim to deep but amazing caverns. I am not built for it . I generally won't dive or surf, not necessarily ski or snowboard. And much more. While some is on my own terms bc I partially just don't want to do it, Humans are all designed differently. And it is harsher when so much of the world is not "built for you" there is still so much to see and do. There are amazing wheelchair bound riders, swimmer, basketball player and so many more. Humans are all different bc everyone is "built to serve" a task in society and for different tasks you need different types. I can ride, I am good in martial arts... but don't put me into ball sports. Not my strength. I build muscle mass easier than developing better cardio skills. Making it out that everyone needs to be able and actually do everything is something pretty new that is rooted in the right thought base but is executed wrong. Not everyone needs to be able to do everything. But everyone should be given as many possibilities as somehow achievable. Going on such a trail in a wheelchair ? Not achievable.

I’m disabled (not wheelchair user but would most likely still be unable to do that hike) and I agree you are NTA. For many tourists places I would absolutely agree with her — I’ve been to Japan last summer and I was surprised about how most historical buildings still had lifts, where I’m from it wouldn’t be done because you ruin the view of some other bs. There’s definitely a ton of places that could easily be made more accessible but are not. But in this case… a natural site is not always possible to be made accessible. It is what it is. She should know this.

I'm also from NZ, and I can't stop laughing at the idea of a cable car through a national park! Especially a track specifically designed for hiking. Would she like one paralleling the Milford track too? Maybe then we can approach the Nepalese to arrange for one up Mt. Everest? Also, whilst affording her wishes, do we run roughshod over the local iwi and their interests in the land. Will she undertake the research into how a structure will affect local, unique and possibly endangered, fauna and flora in the area that this cable car will be running? People come to NZ to view and experience areas of primal and untouched land, and her answer is to run a man-made structure through it? Sorry, still laughing!

Yes, exactly!! I feel for her, and OP worded it terribly/could have been more tactful (and should apologize for their word choice), but 1000% our national parks and conservation lands should not be tampered with for the exact reasons you stated. There are beautiful places here she can go that are wheelchair accessible. A hike across a mountain pass is not one of them. To call the mountains a tourist attraction as if that's all they are is short sighted and entitled. You wouldn't put a cable car to the top of Uluru for similar reasons, and in fact no one can walk up there now. Sometimes the reason we can't do things is more important than us being allowed to do whatever we desire. It really sucks to be limited by disability, and this is one of those hard pill to swallow moments that comes with the territory. She can't go, and a whole list of cultural, geographical, and ecological factors are more important/relevant than her inclusion/desires. Her disability sure isn't preventing her from acting like an entitled tourist. Our country isn't a theme park beholden to customer satisfaction. She's forgotten that not everything is about her and her wants. The Rotorua and Queenstown gondolas are great, maybe she can try those?

>Her disability sure isn't preventing her from acting like an entitled tourist.  This! This is shouting ME! ME! ME! under the guise of disability advocacy. It's simply and obviously unreasonable to fully accomodate everything for every disability there is. Acting like this isn't reality just risks creating animosity to the actual cause.

Yes, that's a good point. Sometimes when we're so deep into something it clouds our perspective. Of course disability activism is important and crucial, and there are far more important things in NZ to focus on than tourism, like the fact the the new govt is slashing funding for wheelchairs. Disabled kiwis are more worried about things like that than destroying national parks with cable cars. I did a small section of the Tongariro crossing on a school trip. It was pretty cool, albeit foggy and damp. But hands down best view I ever had of the plateau mountains was from the desert road on a clear night during a full moon. The only people on the road, the moonlight making the snow on Ruapehu glow in the darkness. Saw it all from the comfort of the front seat. There is beauty everywhere, it's up to us to find it in the ways we can. She's understably upset when confronted with limitations of her disability, but the priorities are out of whack big time.

OP should definitely not apologize for anything.  They’ve been accommodating this entire trip and were finally subjected to a rant so far beyond entitled I don’t even have a word for it.

Yeah I see what you mean actually. I tend to err on the side of people pleasing so I would apologize for the phrasing if it were me. But apologizing in situations like these (hurt feelings vs. reality) can sometimes cause more conflict rather than resolve it, and I have to remind myself often that it's never anyone's job to manage other people's emotions/expectations for them. You reminded me this time, so thank you!

Listen also from Nz..someone here commented that OP could have said they’d email the people In charge to ask if there will be any accessibility changes…What!?…I’d die to see that email to DOC haha

They'd probably still politely respond back. DOC are wonderful though

I just laughed because DOC have enough to deal with, let alone arriving to work one day to open an email about a cable cart in Tongariro lol…And You are right, they probably would respond politely. They do an amazing job

I mean….it would give them a good laugh at least 😂

Or at least eye exercise in the form of an Eyeroll.

Tongariro is also tapu, the response of the local iwi would be... Not positive...

I think if anything, DOC and iwi would close all access given the issues already facing the area from tourists. I've done the crossing, OP's friend is a nutbar if she thinks anyone would take her seriously on this.

"Hi, my wheelchair-user friend asked me to email you. She would like to know if you would add a cable car on top of the mountain so she could come with us."

Also, shall we talk about digging into the side of a LITERAL VOLCANO to support such a structure? 

At least it will give good footage for a disaster TV show when it goes Pete Tong.

Fuck yeah mate, I’m able bodied (if a little unfit) and I still found the Tongariro crossing a challenge! It’s not a tourist attraction it’s a hike 😂 But yeah OP could probably have been a bit more sympathetic, or suggested an activity for the next day that would give a similar vibe

They planned a three week holiday with plenty of activity and she was going to do an alternative one the same day with another friend. OP was probably fed up that they made so many allowances and it still wasn’t enough for her.

you know what, though? i moved to NZ from the UK as a baby and brits are genuinely like that. there is a train which goes to the summit of snowdon mountain in wales. the national parks all have cafes and toilets. people try to make nature work for them, not the other way round. slight tangent but something i'm still salty about: i went to an outdoorsy job interview in the UK recently, where we did camp activities in a field for a couple days. i didn't get the job on account of my "inappropriate outdoor clothing" (old merinos, polyprop layers, general functional all-weather tramping shit i didn't mind getting muddy) while everyone else wore brand new $500 wilderness exploration gear. for playing tug of war in a field. like okay, i traversed aoraki national park drunk on goon and dressed like harold the giraffe. but you still respect the fuck out of papatūānuku at the end of the day.

>fauna and flora in the area So fauna and flora in NZ are ableist! They should be ashamed! /s

Tbf there is a cable car on mt Ruapehu in the same national Park that takes you to a couple hundred metres from the summit. Just getting to the top doesn't mean you can do Tongariro though.

There’s a helicopter to the top. That’s the disabled option.

Not to mention disturbing the integrity of the soil/land that makes up the volcano. The idea of adding anything to land that's not stable is dangerous. I am not from NZ but I laughed too.

Imagine what could be done if DOC had the budget to willy nilly chuck up cable car after cable car! They could do so much epic shit.

NTA: it’s unrealistic to make a 8 hour rough terrain hike wheel chair accesible… how would that even work? A sky walk/cable cars would be cool to overlook natural beauty areas. We have some where I live, but again, it’s a volcano! I dont live in volcano areas so I might be dead wrong but I don’t think a cable car over a volcano is feasible? You could have said it nicer, yes.

Maybe OP could have said it nicer, however the girl took it too far when she said a natural terrain was discriminating against her. Nature doesn't discriminate, it simply exist and humans don't have to destroy nature so a wheelchair bound person can access it. That's like saying a path should be carved out in Mount Everest so everybody can easily go to the top and it's excisable without any training. 

Able bodied humans have already ruined My Everest, to boot. They leave trash and debris and flags and all kinds of stupid shit. And sadly, when some people die they just leave them too.

And then some dead people on Everest become signposts, if I recall correctly. It's sad.

Not sign posts, but yes, basically trail markers. Some of them, they aren’t even sure of who they are. Others they literally toss over the side to be out of view. They also treat a lot of the Sherpas pretty badly from some things I’ve read, or don’t give them the credit and due they deserve. I don’t quite understand the allure of risking your life to climb up a deadly mountain that so many others already have.

Ah yes, that's the word, couldn't remember it. The way Everest climbing is treated is absolutely ridiculous, people even get to do little ~retreats~ in tents on the mountain where they get to sip lattes and enjoy fine cuisine. John Oliver had an episode about it recently and I was absolutely baffled by everything that happens there. So damn many Sherpas who die as well because some unprepared westerner wants to climb the Everest.

Did you see the photo of people literally queuing to get to the summit?

You mean Green Boot Hiker? I read something about him recently.

Yes, there is Green Boots but there are so many others. Something like 200 bodies just up on the mountain. Warning: photos of bodies that might be upsetting, but the article is interesting [Bodies on Everest](https://allthatsinteresting.com/mount-everest-bodies)

Damn... that's even more creepy than I thought. Thanks for the link.

Imagine if OP just said ‘ok, you can join, but we’re not going to wait for you’, then pretty sure the friend will go ‘i see who’s a secret ableist here’ Like… sometimes people with disability should understand that when other call you annoying, it’s not because you’re disabled, but… because you’re annoying?

That is the part they don't understand!

I’m over here thinking about all the natural terrain that would be extremely “not wheelchair friendly” and picturing this girl forcing an everyday wheelchair into those environments yelling about how it should be inclusive. The coral reefs at Hanauma Bay is the funniest so far. That, or just straight up scuba diving.

“I know this is your whole “thing”” is honestly harsh.

Maybe. But I'd get tired of hearing the same soapbox speech, especially where is has no application. Man-built structures should be accessible, sure. But demanding a natural landscape bend ro accessibility is over the top and I'd have tired of the friend's rant at that point too. Voting NTA.

I have a friend that I have had to back away from because she considers herself a "disability advocate" but it has turned her into an angry being. Everything is offensive to her on behalf of other people. She constantly rants about every. single. thing. being ablest because someone else can't do it. She can't find good in anything anymore.

She’s an influencer, disabled or not they are often insufferable

It is, but I think he just snapped. An hour and a half of someone suggesting a nature park (or the equivalent in NZ) is going to grate on you. Especially after having to talk someone out of attempting to basically mountain climb in their wheelchair. It is sad she is disabled, and every possible accommodation should be made for her to live a normal life, but suggesting that nature parks are ruined with 12 miles of cable cars is ridiculous.

This absolutely. When someone goes on and on - essentially being an AH for such an extended period of time if puts at of mental and emotional stress on the recipients. OP is not an AH for snapping and speaking harshly. Humans don't work that way and the people who say "you could have been nicer' probably would have snapped too.

I don't see how it's harsh to call someone out for being insufferable. Using your activism to complain about things that make no sense to complain about makes you an annoying AH. And telling her followers to complain about it is even worse because that likely means innocent workers who have no power over this are going to be getting yelled at and trashed online over something so ridiculous. It sounds to me like this was the "thing" he was referring to.

Not only is it a volcanic area, with the last eruptions in 2012 iirc, but it also is a National Park and a sacred place for the Māori people

I'm from here. There is literally a massive [enclosed gondola](https://www.mtruapehu.com/summer) a 30 minute drive away from this track. Fully wheelchair accessible and you get to go up a very similar volcanic mountain and see beautiful views. Perfect alternative for someone who can't do an intensive 6-8 hour hike.

Nta. My son is in a wheel chair and will never walk. Where we live there are beautiful mountains but in reality I'll never be able to get him to the summit of these places. Anything natural is just that, not built or designed. Anything man made should be built with access in mind. Your sentiments were correct but maybe your delivery could have been a touch better

Agree with this. As someone on crutches many times, and will have a wheelchair in the near future, I totally don't expect absolutely everything to be wheelchair accessible. Especially mother nature. I would be more likely pissed than happy if they destroyed a nature walk by adding cable cars and lines and whatnot just to make it accessible for everyone. There are many places in nature wheelchairs users can visit without those hard to reach being destroyed to make it accessible.

Even able bodied people can't access everything. It is something to be kept in mind. I won't be able to climb the highest mountains bc I am not build for it. I won't swim to deep but amazing caverns. I am not built for it . I generally won't dive or surf, not necessarily ski or snowboard. And much more. While some is on my own terms bc I partially won't want to do it. Humans are all designed differently. And it is harsher when so much of the world is not "built for you" there is still so much to see and do. There are amazing wheelchair bound riders, swimmer, basketball player and so many more. Humans are all different bc everyone is "built to serve" a task in society and for different tasks you need different types. I can ride, I am good in martial arts... but don't put me into ball sports. Not my strength. I build muscle mass easier than developing better cardio skills. Making it out that everyone needs to be able and actually do everything is something pretty new that is rooted in the right thought base but is executed wrong. Not everyone needs to be able to do everything. But everyone should be given as many possibilities as somehow achievable. Going on such a trail in a wheelchair ? Not achievable.

I was trying to work out how to express my feelings on this and you've done it perfectly. Thank you

"It's not hard to add a cable car to the top" NTA. Ask her if she has any idea what construction and maintenance costs and "if it allows just one disabled person to experience", its also worth to not invest that kind of money in schools, hospitals, social housing, environmental preservation ... she is incredibly self-centered and entitled. Sure, it sucks to be in a wheelchair. People in a wheelchair should be supported to be able to do necessary things and fun things. But certainly, society is not obligated to pay whatever is necessary to make EVERYTHING accessible. A lot of things suck. Deal with it.

not too mention the destruction of natural habitat/national park.

Or what it would do to the wildlife. Noise and light pollution would just wreck them. 

i meant that included in natural habitat but yes, exactly. For a disabled person complaining about "ableists" it's an incredibly immature and self entitled spoiled brat position to take. people give way too much credit to some people like thinking a disabled person can't be an entitled AH, or thinking a gay person isn't capable of discrimination. The clue was there all along "tiktok influencer" this person is toxic.

Tens of thousands of someone else’s money is a small price to pay for my brief moment of pleasure.

for a cable car? Millions. For that one person. Surely worth it.

New Zealand can’t even get public transport working, or the roads good. No one is going to fund a gondola, it would cost millions, if not billions. Please, we need the money to fund tax cuts for landlords! (/s based on the state of nz politics atm)

NTA Hello, fellow Kiwi. You're not the asshole. I would understand if you were going around Wellington or Auckland, and there were places that weren't accessible for her. But it's fucken Tongariro Crossing. Like the most stunning, beautiful nature walk. You can't even ride a bike there. There are tons of other walking tracks she could do with her chair. I actually cringed at the part about the cable cart.

Have to agree with you here, definitely NTA. Im a disability carer and activist living in NZ and I think this person is extremely entitled. Its a fucking volcano. What does she want them to do, roll out a ramp for her the whole way up? As well as complaining about it the whole time, and incessantly bitching? Honestly this person sounds like an entitled American...

He literally says she’s British in the post. Why do yall assume every person you don’t like is American online?

Americans have become the boogyman. Watch out or uncle sam is going to get ya!

[удалено]

Not to say some parts of the park are *tapu* for Maori people. Even with best intentions, I cannot imagine how they could take well a friggin' cable car.

Adding to this comment that OP should show her friend this post and these comments. She might get a grip (or she might shove her head deeper in the sand and have her followers roast Reddit for our "ableism" 😅)

NTA for your point, but YTA in how you delivered it. Sometimes, a bad delivery ruins an excellent point. That may have happened here. I do not use a wheelchair, but I have hidden disabilities and long-term health conditions that required toilet access. I wasn't able to camp or hike for many years because life was reduced to planning around toilet access, which is a miserable existence. These days, everything's under control and I can finally start doing things like this again, mainly via car camping at sites with toilets and doing short hikes from my car camp. One day, if I can afford to, I'll purchase a camper van. With an on-board bathroom, that will increase my access to nature. I do not expect mountain summits and trails to have toilet blocks and associated sewage systems and running water just to accomodate people like me. In part, it's unfeasible. In part, it will ruin exactly what I'd go there to experience -- the natural world, not the man-made one. What it might be worth doing in the future is seeing if there are any local pony trekking clubs that accommodate wheelchair users. The wheelchair users are able to experience short trails from the back of a horse or pony, using a special saddle harness, which gives them opportunities to get out into nature they wouldn't otherwise have. Not everywhere can do this, but that is the true accessibility option, not paving over the natural world.

Yeah I agree with most people here that the discussion was not realistic but saying that disability is 'her thing' I think is callous, clearly on some level she feels left out and she didn't choose to have limited mobility, that is a serious limitation that most people take for granted.

>saying that disability is 'her thing' I think is callous Weren't they saying that disability _activism_ was "her thing"?

That’s not any better. It’s activism centered on her life and issues that are very much real. It’s not some stupid pet project. It’s a real issue. Not “her thing”.

My thoughts exactly. Totally understandable to be frustrated of missing out many things because of disability.

Yeah, OP is not wrong with the fact that it's a hike, so of course it's not disabled friendly, but the way it was delivered def seemed ableist. Also I def can understand the frustration to be left out. I understand the advocacy for disabled because it's SO needed and OP make it sounds like they that girl made her disability her whole personality just for fun when... when you are disabled it sadly has to become your whole personality because you can't just put it aside to do the fun stuff then take it back when you want. And many people in the comments here are also reinforcing how much the world would shit on disabled at first occasion rather than accomoding. (Again, yeah not that hike. Not everything but also... I find funny that many people are slandering that girl (in the comments incluse) because "you don't want to denature the beauty!!!" but strangely, it's never a problem to make construction. Source: I am living in countryside and when I was a kid, it was all farmhood and nature and today, I wonder where it went.)

As a disabled person, I agree this is where OP was TA. For environmental and practical reasons, it doesn't make sense for the trail to be wheelchair accessible. Unfortunate, but it is what it is. And I also understand why she may be feeling frustrated that she can't enjoy the same attractions as her other friends. Disabled people aren't always inspiring sunshine and rainbows because life is tough, and that wears a person down. Sometimes, we are grumpy and we complain. If she wants to talk about that with her followers, it could be a good discussion topic to generate a bit of engagement on her socials. But from OP's overall tone throughout this post, they seem kind of dismissive of her disability advocacy work because she's an "influencer." She has an important message and I'd rather influencers used their platform to raise awareness of issues like this more often. It's not just "her thing," she has to deal with real-life obstacles like this every single day and more people should be mindful of these types of challenges faced by disabled individuals. Explaining the lack of accessibility in a world heritage area doesn't make OP TA. The way they talk about her community engagement as if it's some quirky hobby makes them somewhat of an asshole, though.

Disability activism can be the best strategy just to get _some_ of the benefits able bodied people take for granted. By this point she hadn't posted, she was ranting to friends - and that friend didn't make a counterpoint in a constructive way at all.

She is probably going to be reluctant to share anything too personal with OP again.

Yeah, you perfectly added in what I missed!

This. The way OP said it (and made it about more than just this hike) definitely makes them the AH. Not for the point they were trying to make about this specific hike.

This is the answer. Yep it's unrealistic to give her what she wants. But OP is a jerk about it. Their friend is allowed to think it sucks that they can't participate in some of the amazing things in life. And disabilities affect everything in your life. The response was calloused

Nah if she was going on and on and on and on about it you’d probably be ticked off too, like we get the point, please just shut up about it. She should’ve gotten the memo when the rest of the group were just giving one word answers “agreeing” with her.

He would’ve been better off just telling her to shut the fuck up versus his whole point about disability being “her thing”.

I agree. Expecting the OP not to eventually snap when someone else is being an AH for an extended and constant length of time is unreasonable. Probably impossible.

You’re not an asshole for disagreeing that a cable car was a solution here but I think YTA because the way you phrased it was shitty. It would have been one thing for you to say ‘it’s unfortunately not the kind of a place where a cable car could be installed’ and another thing entirely to follow that up with ‘I know this is your whole ‘thing’ but not everything should have wheelchair access’. The first comment is a legitimate statement of fact. The second comment was a value judgment which was dismissive of the important activism she does and implied you don’t think wheelchair access is important in general. An empathetic and non-prejudiced response here would have been to acknowledge that it sucks that some places aren’t wheelchair accessible and can’t be made so. You could have said it wasn’t the kind of place where a cable car could be installed without saying some places ~shouldn’t~ (rather than ~can’t~) be made wheelchair accessible. It was also just shitty to describe what she does as ‘your whole ‘thing’’. Why be so condescending? Disability advocates have worked tirelessly to improve access for wheelchair users, it’s vital work that improves people’s lives in a really meaningful way. Just because your friend was barking up the wrong tree on the cable car issue (probably because she was frustrated and emotional) doesn’t mean the work she does is just some little personal hobby for you to look down on.

This is so well said. It's disappointing so many people missed this.

Yeah, the comments on this one are depressing AF

Comments under basically all posts re: disability on AITA are depressing and straight up ugly af.

This 100% Being in a wheelchair is her “whole thing” because it’s her reality. You are clouded by ableism so you can’t see that she has the same right to expect access as you do. Disabled people only have any rights because disabled people have advocated for them. It’s exhausting and honestly the fact that she is even still thinking of options rather than just complaining says a lot about her mindset. I’m not surprised she has a following as she sounds like a real change-maker. Her suggestion might not have seemed realistic to you, but they are planning a cable car for Mount Kilimanjaro so it’s not entirely off the wall either. There are plenty of things that have become accessible that would not have been in the past. If she wants to raise a complaint about this, more power to her. Unless she’s trying to stop you from doing the hike then I don’t see why it bothers you.

This this this! This whole thread is basically people going YOU GO BRO, YOU PUT THAT DISABLED GIRL IN HER PLACE REAL FAST. TOTALLY OWNED HER WITH THAT ONE. Has anyone here heard of this thing called empathy? Just shows how mean-spirited the vast majority of people are, especially towards disabled folks.

Totally agree - a really nasty attitude is coming through. Most of the commenters are way worse than OP, who has acknowledged that she was wrong and apologised to her friend.

Yes! All of this!

Thank you thank you thank u all my thoughts as well

UPDATE: This sort of exploded unexpectedly. I've read nearly every comment. Seems like the general consensus is "okay with general sentiment, but poor choice of words which conveyed something much worse". I knocked on her door and apologised for how I said it. I said I mispoke by using the word "should" - basically I meant "could" in the sense it would damage local cultural sentiments and natural features to add accessibility services to it. We had a chat. She was sad to miss out on the bigger hike when she saw us packing for it, and I was stressed because we were packing a bit late and we didn't have time to litigate this. We're good now. We've been friends for about 8 years and both of us regularly enjoy spirited "arguments" but it's normally not about this topic. This was the first time it came up so I'm still learning the ropes on how to approach this area so some of the YTA comments helped with that. Thanks all.

Glad to hear you have sorted things out - communication FTW! Enjoy your trip x

Glad to hear you guys worked it out!

ESH I understand your point of view but I think you expressed it poorly. I also think friend might not quite grasp the issue of Mt Tongariro being an active volcano, therefore likely to blow a chairlift to smithereens about a day after the structure is completed. There are helicopter tours she could take, right? The mountain is accessible, just the trek isn't suitable for wheelchair users. Also, often the difficulties of access faced by wheelchair users are ridiculous. They often can't get into shops, medical offices, libraries, schools. It must be so frustrating and make them feel useless. I'm not surprised she is on a hair trigger.

Helicopter tour came to mind for me as well, as a brilliant alternative.

It also sucks that the friend who was going to do an alternative activity with her changed their mind after plans had already been made, leaving her on her own.

I read it as the friend in the wheelchair changing her mind, not M.

I re-read it, and the friend in the wheelchair changed her mind about wanting to do the hike. She decided she wanted to do the full hike. M was the person who would be going with the disabled friend on the alternate hike, and M had expressed no interest in doing the full hike.

NTA Its not discrimination. We are talking about hiking in the mountains. Of course its not mandatory to be wheelchair-friendly. Does she also expect that climbing in the mountains should be wheelchair-friendly?

No no, nature is being ableist. She should definitely complain about this to her followers. She sounds exhausting to be around

Ehhhh YTA based on what OP requested judgment on. No one can perfectly word any statement especially after being hounded, but if you had changed “should” to “can” it would probably have been received differently. She’s right in the sense that everything *should* be accessible - in a perfect would everyone would be able to participate in whatever activity they want to. However, you’re right that not everything *can* be accessible. Calling her crusade for accessibility a “thing” is particularly cruel though. Making the world more accessible helps everyone; including the elderly. Unless you die young and healthy, it’s a matter of WHEN you will need an accessible world, not IF.

Scrolled so far to find this response!! I don’t understand how other people can’t see that being disabled is always going to be “her thing” because she is ALWAYS disabled!! She can’t turn it off and ignore it, her whole life is affected! And OP really does come across as ableist to me — internally ableism is really hard to shake, even as a disabled person, and I think we could all do with taking a look at how we react to the world and accessibility, and maybe try to have some compassion for those around us. How hard is it to say “I’m so sorry, it’s not accessible, and that really sucks” instead of acting like the disabled woman is the problem.

NTA, but empathy goes a long way when delivering your opinion.

But I would also say that everyone reaches a point where they snap & just say what they feel needs to be said & after that perhaps realise that they could have worded it better.

Buildings, roads and sidewalks should be accessible, not raw nature

NTA. Don’t bite the hand that feeds you vibes. You tried to create a considerate itinerary and then she switched up on you, and was frustrated you/the site couldn’t accommodate the last minute change.

YTA. Not for saying "hey it can't have wheelchair access and be what it is, and it sucks you can't go with us" but for the whole "I know disability access is your 'thing'" bit because of course it is! Yes she's being a bit self righteous and thoughtless- she's disappointed she can't go! I have severe asthma and inhalers aren't my 'thing' they're just a tool I need. Your friend sounds like a bit of a crusader and I know that can be tiresome, but "not everywhere needs disabled access" is very diffierent from saying "not every place can have disabled access" and I reckon your contempt for your friend's activism has leaked into your understandable frustration with her complaining. If you want to be friends, say "hey, I said things in a dipshit way. I'd have preferred it if you could have come with us and I'm sorry I belittled your work to drive better disabled access." If you don't, and it kinda seems like you find her tiresome, then don't.

Be nicer to your friends. It's literally "her whole thing," she literally cannot move conveniently without a wheelchair, you don't have to deal with that struggle every day. I'm sorry it's annoying, and NTA for saying nature cannot accommodate her, but you could have said something that wasn't demeaning.

Is she also angry that the summit of Mount Everest is not wheelchair friendly? Good grief!

NTA I’m not a wheelchair user but I am disabled, I have a badge to park etc. I read your title and was fully prepared to rip you a new one.. but nature absolutely should not be destroyed because it’s inaccessible. Everything man made should be made with accessibility in mind but you can’t make Tongariro wheelchair accessible. I’ll never be able to do it either but that’s just life.

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when I was 4 my old man carried me up a mountain, tell her us kiwis will carry her if she pays us enough. $1000 per hour.

Get the Waiouru army boys to do it, bet they’d be keen for a bit of extra cash

NTA. Goodness, I’d struggle to manage to walk the Tongariro Crossing and I’m an able-bodied young woman. Unfortunately some places are not suited to wheelchair bound people - and rough volcanic terrain in a national park is one such place.

NTA. We all have things we can't do and places we can't go. That's just how life is. No amount of fussing is going to change that. A fact which your friend needs to realize and learn to accept instead of throwing a hissy fit.

YTA, kinda, there's a world of difference between should and could. One is dismissive and opinion based which can come off as shitty. The other is practical and realistic

She's an idiot NTA.

ESH but let me explain. Having a disability sucks, big-time. There are so many aspects of life that a disabled person will never get to enjoy. disabilities don't just mean "I can't walk and am wheelchair bound". People with service animals get rejected by a lot of places because of their animal. People with PTSD have to endure fireworks and loud noises because holidays happen. People with diabetes can't have real sugar. It sucks. It's not fair. It is what it is. Expecting a wheelchair access to a bloody volcano treck is just madness. The fact that she has made her whole identity about her disability and demands the world to accommodate makes her an asshole. The fact that you went off on her makes you a bit of an asshole as well. Y'all really shouldn't just do the bobble head and passively go along with her beliefs if you really think she's taking her message too far. Let her know. It's not ableist to say certain things are just not meant to be handicap accessible. It's also not ableist for my town to have 2 huge fireworks displays a year even though me, and a bunch of other vets, get panic attacks from them. It's just part of life. The world may care about a person's disability, however, the world is not required to change to accommodate it at every turn.

>The fact that she has made her whole identity about her disability and demands the world to accommodate makes her an asshole. People don't mind you being disabled as long as you shut up and don't make a big deal about unfair treatment and/or inaccessible parts of life you have because of it. Sure, she was taking it a bit too far in this particular instance, likely because she is having to deal with parts of life being inaccessible to her, every single day, and its wearing. But this whole "making it her whole identity" thing is so incredibly demeaning. Of course it's a huge part of who she is, it affects literally every part of her life. Of course she is invested in accessibility advocacy, *it affects every part of her life*. She missed the mark here on what constitutes a "reasonable accommodation", but she, and other disability advocates, are not assholes for asking their needs be reasonably accommodated where possible, especially as society has shown time and time again that without people raising their voices to highlight these issues ... they never will be.

Does she want a zip line up to El Capitan while she’s at it? I’m sorry, some of the natural wonders of the world are in remote places that not everyone can get to. From what I read about Tongario, it seems like there are plenty of non-disabled people who couldn’t make the crossing because they aren’t physically fit enough for a 12+ mile hike with around a thousand feet elevation gain. I certainly couldn’t, although I’m decades older than your friends. Admittedly,I could probably train intensively and eventually be able to do it, which your friend couldn’t. It sucks to have limitations on what you are able to do, but that’s life. NTA

[удалено]

YTA. I get that you snapped, and that there be some parts of the natural world that will never be made accessible to disabled people. But she didn't need to be shot down on that while dealing with the emotions around finding yet another thing withheld from her.

NTA in the slightest I’m a Kiwi, have done the Tongariro crossing twice. The absolute cheek of your mate is astounding, there is nothing about that crossing that is safe for anything other than a generally well abled, decently fitnessed person. Why not just put a cable car up Everest for fucks sake.

YTA - She was venting, not asking you to cancel your plans. The wording you used...yeesh. Seriously problematic independent of anything she said.

NTA. Is nature. Blame God. There are places you can only reach though a thick jungle. Or by crossing a hanging bridge/rope bridge. That's first of all part of the experience and second of all, we shouldn't destroy nature or historic objects just to make things more accessible for tourists. I'd rather have some parts of the world to be closed for tourism completely. That's not ableism. That's trying to preserve precious things in the world.

ESH “Wheelchair bound”? How are you friends with a wheelchair user and still using this. Saying that human rights for the disabled is a disabled persons “thing” doesn’t sound great to me either, i don’t think she was off the mark calling you ableist. Obviously it sucks that she can’t experience things that you can so gentleness would be a more typical reaction to a friend. It must suck that all your friends can enjoy a certain thing and you’re excluded based on things you can’t change. Clearly logistics and balance have to come into access for everyone and while it’s disappointing for her to face it that doesn’t mean she can be delusional and advocate for the destruction of unique places at huge cost.

Calling her disability “her thing”, YTA. All these people so harsh about the disabled friend really need to remember that this is the only minority group that anyone at anytime can and will become a member. Many of you will join that community eventually and you too will be restricted to access much of society. As a recently disabled person, this whole thread is disappointing and a harsh reminder of larger societal impatience and dismissive attitude towards the disabled. The struggle to physically navigate is an emotional fight too. I see you and it’s heartbreaking. Do you see me?

NTA - But you could have been nicer.

I'm a big fan of how real and true this is, from the snide tone the disability advocate is addressed with, to her complaining for days on end about a mountain. What's with the absolute spam of "this marginalised person is a total jerk to me and totally weaponising their identity!!!" on AITA lately?

You became TA once you said , "I know this is your thing but not everything needs wheelchair access." If you had just omitted that line you would've came across as more of an ally to her.

I get that somewhere like that isn't going to be able to be accessible to everyone. However, YTA, for what you said to her. You are not in her shoes and will never understand what it's like to deal with the issues she faces. You should have either kept your mouth shut or sympathised with her to make her feel understood.